ESPN NBA Countdown

[mr. synellinden]

There's an interesting story developing about the recent changes at NBA Countdown. As you may have heard, Michael Wilbon was kind of relieved of his duties this week or told that his role would be limited. And today Magic Johnson supposedly decided to step down from his studio hosting role. Then this afternoon, Deadspin reported (http://deadspin.com/sources-magic-johnson-left-espn-because-of-bill-simmon-1443543687)that Magic left because he was upset that Wilbon was told his position would be taken over by Doug Collins (http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/08/michael-wilbon-role-on-nba-countdown-to-be-diminished-replaced-on-set-by-former-coach/). The Deadspin story cites a source as saying at the heart of all this was an "old-fashioned power war with Simmons as the clear winner."

From Deadspin:


Magic apparently was not at all happy when ESPN told his buddy Michael Wilbon that his role on NBA Countdown would be diminished. He was "booted," according to one source. Another ESPN insider also said that Magic was "privately seething over the Wilbon thing and in general did not like that Simmons held all the power and influence." Magic didn't necessarily need the power, our sources explained; he just didn't feel like kowtowing to Simmons when he's, well, Magic Johnson

Later this afternoon, Bill Simmons tweeted:

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 3h
My first experience today with someone writing a "sources" report about me that's not true. Part amusing, part horrifying.



Then, Magic tweeted several times:


Earvin Magic Johnson ‏@MagicJohnson 1h
...Bill Simmons is smart, talented and knows his basketball & Jalen Rose is an emerging TV star who really knows the game!


Earvin Magic Johnson ‏@MagicJohnson 1h
.@ESPN NBA Countdown will not miss a beat...


Earvin Magic Johnson ‏@MagicJohnson 1h
I'm really going to miss working side by side with my friend of over 25yrs, Michael Wilbon, on @ESPN NBA Countdown.


Earvin Magic Johnson ‏@MagicJohnson 1h
I worked with some talented men @ESPN, who are all friends now: Stuart Scott, Jon Barry, Chris Broussard, Jalen Rose & Bill Simmons!




I'm sure there's more to come on this.

[Des Esseintes]

There's an interesting story developing about the recent changes at NBA Countdown. As you may have heard, Michael Wilbon was kind of relieved of his duties this week or told that his role would be limited. And today Magic Johnson supposedly decided to step down from his studio hosting role. Then this afternoon, Deadspin reported (http://deadspin.com/sources-magic-johnson-left-espn-because-of-bill-simmon-1443543687)that Magic left because he was upset that Wilbon was told his position would be taken over by Doug Collins (http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/08/michael-wilbon-role-on-nba-countdown-to-be-diminished-replaced-on-set-by-former-coach/). The Deadspin story cites a source as saying at the heart of all this was an "old-fashioned power war with Simmons as the clear winner."

From Deadspin:


Magic apparently was not at all happy when ESPN told his buddy Michael Wilbon that his role on NBA Countdown would be diminished. He was "booted," according to one source. Another ESPN insider also said that Magic was "privately seething over the Wilbon thing and in general did not like that Simmons held all the power and influence." Magic didn't necessarily need the power, our sources explained; he just didn't feel like kowtowing to Simmons when he's, well, Magic Johnson

Later this afternoon, Bill Simmons tweeted:

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 3h
My first experience today with someone writing a "sources" report about me that's not true. Part amusing, part horrifying.



Then, Magic tweeted several times:


Earvin Magic Johnson ‏@MagicJohnson 1h
...Bill Simmons is smart, talented and knows his basketball & Jalen Rose is an emerging TV star who really knows the game!


Earvin Magic Johnson ‏@MagicJohnson 1h
.@ESPN NBA Countdown will not miss a beat...


Earvin Magic Johnson ‏@MagicJohnson 1h
I'm really going to miss working side by side with my friend of over 25yrs, Michael Wilbon, on @ESPN NBA Countdown.


Earvin Magic Johnson ‏@MagicJohnson 1h
I worked with some talented men @ESPN, who are all friends now: Stuart Scott, Jon Barry, Chris Broussard, Jalen Rose & Bill Simmons!




I'm sure there's more to come on this.
By the end of the postseason, the discomfort was pretty palpable. Wilbon would say something dumb, then Magic would outdo him. Simmons is no seer, but he has a basic command of logic. You could see him recoil. Once, I caught him pleading with his eyes for Rose to step in and help contain the madness.

[Billy Dat]

By the end of the postseason, the discomfort was pretty palpable. Wilbon would say something dumb, then Magic would outdo him. Simmons is no seer, but he has a basic command of logic. You could see him recoil. Once, I caught him pleading with his eyes for Rose to step in and help contain the madness.

So now we are looking at Doris Burke and Doug Collins in for Wilbon and Magic. I like Doris a lot, she is a real pro, but she is unproven as a studio host. But, I am interested to see if she can pull of the Ernie Johnson role. Wilbon was uninspiring. Magic has never been good on live TV, in any form, aside from wearing #32 and running the Spartans, Lakers or Dream team. I don't think Doug Collins is a good fit at all with this crew, if they are going for an overhaul they should have stuck with the youth movement and went for some young blood.

[vick]

By the end of the postseason, the discomfort was pretty palpable. Wilbon would say something dumb, then Magic would outdo him. Simmons is no seer, but he has a basic command of logic. You could see him recoil. Once, I caught him pleading with his eyes for Rose to step in and help contain the madness.

I'm not as anti-Simmons as it seems like a lot of people here are, but his desire to force dramatic storylines into every single thing that happens in the NBA season is pretty tiresome. One time last season, before a February 8th game between the Clippers and the Heat*, he tried to start a discussion over whether it was a "must-win" for the Clippers, and Magic had the most clearly exasperated look on his face, as if he were dying to say "are you nuts? A random early-February game between two clear playoff teams in different conferences? What sport do you think you're watching?" I won't deny he knows his stuff, especially on personnel, but hopefully Burke (who I like) grounds him a bit on actual basketball Xs and Os.

* I know the date because I have the emails some friends and I were sending mocking him.

[Turk]

Wait, what?

Wilbon does PTI with Kornheiser for how many years, and then all of a sudden he's incompetent in front of a camera? Yeah, right.

Seems fairly obvious to me - Coach Collins now has a lot of free time on his hands, and he's a proven and respected NBA announcer. He's better than Wilbon, and the less said about Magic's commentary the better. It's a pure talent upgrade, plain and simple. Magic more than anyone else should understand this isn't personal, it's just business.

The question of how Collins and Simmons will interact is open for speculation - I think Simmons just might get steamrollered.

[Des Esseintes]

I'm not as anti-Simmons as it seems like a lot of people here are, but his desire to force dramatic storylines into every single thing that happens in the NBA season is pretty tiresome. One time last season, before a February 8th game between the Clippers and the Heat*, he tried to start a discussion over whether it was a "must-win" for the Clippers, and Magic had the most clearly exasperated look on his face, as if he were dying to say "are you nuts? A random early-February game between two clear playoff teams in different conferences? What sport do you think you're watching?" I won't deny he knows his stuff, especially on personnel, but hopefully Burke (who I like) grounds him a bit on actual basketball Xs and Os.

* I know the date because I have the emails some friends and I were sending mocking him.

This is 100% correct and why I don't read his stuff. On tv, there's not much to pick from, so if forced I will take cynical/misguided intelligence--and, man, do I hope it's cynicism at work there; the alternative is too childish to contemplate--over the blind neanderthalisms of, say, almost every former player to have appeared as an analyst on Baseball Tonight.

[brevity]

So now we are looking at Doris Burke and Doug Collins in for Wilbon and Magic. I like Doris a lot, she is a real pro, but she is unproven as a studio host. But, I am interested to see if she can pull of the Ernie Johnson role. Wilbon was uninspiring. Magic has never been good on live TV, in any form, aside from wearing #32 and running the Spartans, Lakers or Dream team. I don't think Doug Collins is a good fit at all with this crew, if they are going for an overhaul they should have stuck with the youth movement and went for some young blood.

I haven't paid too much attention to the ESPN studio crew for NBA coverage, but these moves are curious because they move ESPN further away from the (arguably more successful) TNT model. Whether or not you believed Magic Johnson was improving as a studio personality didn't matter; ESPN had him, with his unmatched level of post-career star power and popularity. And now they don't. This new lineup has, for lack of a better term, an absence of cool. At least we'll have those ESPN Coast to Coast RV commercials to show that the network is still in touch with the league.

To be honest, I'm more familiar with Bill Hader's impersonation of Ernie Johnson than the real thing, but I gather that his role on TNT is to go with the flow and let the chaos happen. I doubt Doris Burke will have too much trouble clamping down Bill Simmons and Jalen Rose. They both strike me as a little too image-conscious to do any real damage.

Timing is everything. Grant Hill is on NBC, instead of delivering the smackdown on Jalen Rose a few times a week on ESPN. That would have been some must-see TV.

[theAlaskanBear]

I'm not disappointed Magic is gone, but the biggest problem with ESPN NBA Countdown is Bill's passive-aggressive arrogance and mean-spirited jokes. Simmons' opinions and personality have been left too long to ferment among his columnist and Grantland echo-chamber. It's a rare person who has the attitude and ability to succeed as a writer and as a TV analyst...I don't think Simmons is one of those cases. As cliche and trite and Magic might sound at times, just as often Bill Simmons is lost in a fantasy of sorts, where all things are hypotheticals, hostage to his biased Celtics fandom, or whim to flights of columnist fancy and media hyperventilating.

[moonpie23]

i'm not a simmons fan......and magic was just a star name add on.........mr rose could never be on tv again and i'd be fine with that.


any new comers? :rolleyes:

[Billy Dat]

Wilbon does PTI with Kornheiser for how many years, and then all of a sudden he's incompetent in front of a camera? Yeah, right.

I think he's brilliant on PTI, I just don't think he was a good NBA studio host.


I haven't paid too much attention to the ESPN studio crew for NBA coverage, but these moves are curious because they move ESPN further away from the (arguably more successful) TNT model. Whether or not you believed Magic Johnson was improving as a studio personality didn't matter; ESPN had him, with his unmatched level of post-career star power and popularity. And now they don't. This new lineup has, for lack of a better term, an absence of cool. At least we'll have those ESPN Coast to Coast RV commercials to show that the network is still in touch with the league..

I think Rose is the link to the players in the league, and he is basically friends with seemingly every player and current hip hop artist where his NBA and Fab Five legacy give him status as a cultural basketball legend. He and Simmons are meant to be the cool.

I like the video previews they have been doing for each team on Grantland, they will certainly be trying to be the Chuck and Kenny. Doris will be Ernie. I think Collins will be Uncle Drew.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9752786/bill-jalen-nba-preview-grantland-channel

[BD80]

Coach Collins the Elder is not known to suffer fools gladly. This does not bode well for Mr. Simmons.

Doug also has a penchant for hoarding grudges. Might Simmons have written a cross word or two about Collins' interactions with the Celtics?

Collins will represent "old school," while Jalen will represent "new school." I predict there will be many arguments where those of us in the former group will declare Doug the clear victor, while those with decades less life experience will believe that Jalen ruled the day.

As much as I dislike Rose, he is in a position to really make a big step forward. He needs to work on his craft (he really isn't improving much in front of the camera) and he could work hard to cultivate contacts/informants throughout the league so he could be the SOURCE of news/factoids.

[superdave]

One of the problems with a guy like Magic on a show like this is he is all off the cuff. He probably never had the time or inclination to prepare for a broadcast the way the good ones do. Sports announcing has gotten significantly better because the good ones are watching tape, reading up on advanced metrics and constantly talking to people around the league. Magic would always relate things to his perspective. That's fine to some extent, but you cannot do an hour of it.

TNT used to go with Barkley, Smith and Ernie Johnson for the regular season, then add Magic for the playoffs. He'd screw up their chemistry and tell meandering stories. I love the guy - one of the greatest players ever and he has tons of great stories to tell - but that's just not where studio analysis is heading these days.

I watched a good bit of the Espn crew last year. It was fresh and new and they all seemed to get along. I'm assuming that they wanted more of Magic's schedule than he was willing to give. If he was not going to put in the time to prep and grow in chemistry with the rest of the team, then he did not need to be there. I am not sure there is any power struggle there, just an unmet demand for more time and energy.

Simmons is good. He does his homework and is a real basketball fanatic. I always enjoy him. He can be prickly. I could see that being an issue with Collins where it probably was not with Magic.

[mr. synellinden]

Might Simmons have written a cross word or two about Collins' interactions with the Celtics?



Well, he certainly has written many cross words about his son's alma mater.

[theAlaskanBear]

I watched a good bit of the Espn crew last year. It was fresh and new and they all seemed to get along. I'm assuming that they wanted more of Magic's schedule than he was willing to give. If he was not going to put in the time to prep and grow in chemistry with the rest of the team, then he did not need to be there. I am not sure there is any power struggle there, just an unmet demand for more time and energy.

Simmons is good. He does his homework and is a real basketball fanatic. I always enjoy him. He can be prickly. I could see that being an issue with Collins where it probably was not with Magic.

I thought the tension last year between the crew was palpable last year, it oozed through the TV. Maybe it is an incorrect read on my end, but I didn't think there was much chemistry at all. Jalen has a natural charisma, and was kind of a bridge between Simmons on the one hand, and Magic & Wilbon on the other. I just can't see it as a coincidence that both Wilbon and Magic are gone from the show. I respect Simmons as a writer, but I prefer game-time analysts to at least have a modicum of impartiality. And the Doc Rivers stuff was inexcusable and totally unprofessional.

[PumpkinFunk]

Doris Burke and Doug Collins joining is only an improvement. I love Wilbon, but he wasn't really a natural as a psuedo-host. Magic just ruined it - they really have to let him talk, and he just goes on and on but says almost nothing. Doris Burke is an awesome choice, a true professional who probably knows the game as well as anyone they could get (she will get so much hate from people but anyone who really knows basketball loves her because she just knows how to talk about the game), and Doug Collins has cred as a former announcer, coach, and player. Simmons isn't at his best on the show but he's ESPN's star and frankly, he has great chemistry with Jalen and that makes it entertaining. They are trying to move a little towards TNT's model, but they also clearly brought in two people that understand basketball and who can give some information more than entertainment.

[Atlanta Duke]

I love Wilbon, but he wasn't really a natural as a psuedo-host.

And PTI is where Wilbon brings value to ESPN. When Wilbon's role in NBA Countdown was dialed back, one explanation was that PTI ratings are down and that Wilbon's absences from being in the studio with Kornheiser are thought to be one of the reasons.

The move is primarily so that Wilbon can return to focusing on the show that made him a star, Pardon the Interruption. In recent years, Wilbon has increasingly appeared on PTI via remote – from Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles, Arizona, etc – diluting some of the outstanding chemistry he’s built up with longtime friend Tony Kornheiser.

Wilbon’s frequent travel has also led to PTI replacing him with Bob Ryan or J.A. Adande, and the end result of both of those factors is that ratings for the show have sagged in the last two years, sources say.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/08/michael-wilbon-role-on-nba-countdown-to-be-diminished-replaced-on-set-by-former-coach/


Simmons isn't at his best on the show but he's ESPN's star.

And because of that he has the clout to set the terms under which he stays. ESPN has a lot more to lose with its online product at Grantland if Simmons is dissatisfied and tries to get out of his contract than it does with Magic allegedly being disappointed with how the show is cast. That sort of clout may be what one source in the Deadspin story was referring to when the source said Simmons is a "shadow president" at ESPN.

[Dev11]

Couple things here.

First off, Countdown is very different from PTI, particularly in that Countdown is aired live, whereas PTI is filmed throughout the day in short segments. They tape one of the 7-or-so minute segments, take a break, run down the next set, and then continue. Countdown happens much faster. Wilbon probably thrives more in that relaxed environment. (Side note, I can't stand the way he calls Magic 'Earvin.' Pomp is bleeding from Wilbon's every orifice.)

Second, SI's Richard Deitsch interviewed Simmons on the matter. It reaffirms my belief that Deadspin is a site where bitter people hate on successful people.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20131013/bill-simmons-magic-johnson-espn-media-circus/

Simmons's contention is that he thinks Magic is too involved in the Dodgers to keep doing Countdown, and he is upset that Deadspin doesn't do much in the way of sources.

[Atlanta Duke]

Second, SI's Richard Deitsch interviewed Simmons on the matter. It reaffirms my belief that Deadspin is a site where bitter people hate on successful people. ...

Simmons's contention is that he thinks Magic is too involved in the Dodgers to keep doing Countdown, and he is upset that Deadspin doesn't do much in the way of sources

Or that leaking information to Deadpsin or giving an interview to the media reporter for another sports web site are part of the tool kit for playing corporate politics at ESPN?

As you note, Simmons had some thoughts on where the leak came from

Those unnamed "sources" are liars. Someone planted a fake story to try to make me look bad, and there's a 99.3 percent chance it came from someone in Bristol (which presents its own set of concerns).

Simmons then proceeds to drop the names of senior execs at ESPN who "respect me." When it comes to office politics the Sports Guy (whom I enjoy reading although he sometimes could use an editor) apparently has game.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20131013/bill-simmons-magic-johnson-espn-media-circus/

Thanks for the link to the interview.