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cato
10-10-2013, 12:28 PM
I don't recall seeing this mentioned anywhere: Duke will be the first college program to use SportVU (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304520704579127281774259324.html?m od=WSJ_hp_EditorsPicks), the player tracking system that the NBA has embraced. Is it too much to hope that the team with share the data with DBR, so that we can put some hard numbers behind next off-season's minutes debate?

In all seriousness, I would love to know how this will change the coaching staff's approach. Unlike NBA teams, Duke will also use the system in practices, partially because of how few home games there are, and partially because of the, uh, uneven level of competion in the home games. (I bet the Blue team is better than all but a handful of visitors to Cameron).

Also, the coaches must like mentioning this on the recruiting trail. I wonder if they will ever make stats available to NBA teams to help guys leaving for the NBA?

Dev11
10-10-2013, 12:32 PM
I don't recall seeing this mentioned anywhere: Duke will be the first college program to use SportVU (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304520704579127281774259324.html?m od=WSJ_hp_EditorsPicks), the player tracking system that the NBA has embraced. Is it too much to hope that the team with share the data with DBR, so that we can put some hard numbers behind next off-season's minutes debate?

In all seriousness, I would love to know how this will change the coaching staff's approach. Unlike NBA teams, Duke will also use the system in practices, partially because of how few home games there are, and partially because of the, uh, uneven level of competion in the home games. (I bet the Blue team is better than all but a handful of visitors to Cameron).

Also, the coaches must like mentioning this on the recruiting trail. I wonder if they will ever make stats available to NBA teams to help guys leaving for the NBA?

I would guess that we will see a very limited set of data from the system, only enough to make us seem cutting-edge. I agree that it could be a big recruiting tool, especially since its the same system the NBA uses.

subzero02
10-10-2013, 12:42 PM
It's a shame that this technology is coming into use as Battier approaches the brink of retirement... With more data to quantify the level of his defensive effectiveness, he'd likely be more appreciated amongst casual fans and also slightly richer.

CharlestonDevil
10-10-2013, 01:09 PM
The picture of Mason on the front page of the article made me wish that this tracking system was in Cameron over the past four years. It would be fascinating to either prove or disprove the "Duke doesn't develop big men" theory with Mason and Ryan as two excellent case studies.

Obviously these statistics apply to every player, but having statistical evidence over four years of rebounding rate, touches, and favored places to score from would be very intriguing for both guys, in particular Mason since he ended up as the top big man in the country.

Billy Dat
10-10-2013, 01:40 PM
This is very exciting, and proof that Duke is very interested in advanced metric no matter what Jeff Goodman intuits:

"Which coaches love analytics?"
A look at coaches who embrace advanced metrics (and some who don't)
by Jeff Goodman
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9787762/which-coaches-embraced-advanced-metrics-college-basketball

For those without insider access, he had K on the "don't" list with very weak support for that position.

For some great background on SportsVU, I suggest these articles by Grantland's Zach Lowe:

"Seven Ways the NBA's New Camera System Can Change the Future of Basketball"
September 4, 2013
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/73501/seven-ways-the-nbas-new-camera-system-can-change-the-future-of-basketball

"Lights, Cameras, Revolution"
The NBA is undergoing an analytical transformation, and the Raptors are one of the teams at the forefront. For the first time, here is an exclusive, inside look at how SportVU is changing basketball.
March 19, 2013
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9068903/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution

g-money
10-10-2013, 02:21 PM
Good stuff - thanks for posting this cato. You know the saying that you can't teach an old dog new tricks? Evidently this does not apply to Coach K. What he's doing in his 60's is incredible.

If the Duke staff embraces this system, I think we'll see a lot of surprises with lineups and plays/schemes in the coming years.

Billy, the 3/2013 Zach Lowe article you linked to reminded me of a few Heat games last year where I would watch Shane playing help side defense and think, "man, he is really giving his man in the (opposite) corner too much space!" Well, now I guess I know why he did that.




This is very exciting, and proof that Duke is very interested in advanced metric no matter what Jeff Goodman intuits:

For some great background on SportsVU, I suggest these articles by Grantland's Zach Lowe:

"Lights, Cameras, Revolution"
The NBA is undergoing an analytical transformation, and the Raptors are one of the teams at the forefront. For the first time, here is an exclusive, inside look at how SportVU is changing basketball.
March 19, 2013
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9068903/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution

Billy Dat
10-10-2013, 02:38 PM
Billy, the 3/2013 Zach Lowe article you linked to reminded me of a few Heat games last year where I would watch Shane playing help side defense and think, "man, he is really giving his man in the (opposite) corner too much space!" Well, now I guess I know why he did that.

Related to the SportsVU topic, and in addition to pimping Zach Lowe who I always pimp, let me add Grantland's Kirk Goldsberry to the list of basketball writers obsessed with advanced metrics who you stat heads should keep tabs on. Goldsberry is a professional cartographer and is on the cutting edge of marrying journalism with "infographics".

"Extra Points - A new way to understand the NBA's best scorers"
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9795591/kirk-goldsberry-introduces-new-way-understand-nba-best-scorers

In this article, posted yesterday, Goldsberry attempts to introduce a new advanced stat, developed by he and Michigan State professor Ashton Shortridge, called ShotScore.
It is an attempt to quantify who are the best shooters in the NBA by analyzing who score best against league averages from every spot on the floor. Read the article if you want to get more detail on what he is talking about (I find it interesting and relevant), but I posted it here because he makes the point that SportsVU data will eventually allow this new stat to be even more fine tuned by including data on how well the shot was defended, who was defending it, how fast they may have been closing out on a shooter, etc.

All this ties back to your point, and subzero's point, that Shane would have had a field day with this data. But, bigger picture, it further positions Duke as an NBA-aligned program where players who want to have a place in the modern NBA are going to give a serious look. But, it also shows how lucky we are that K has done such an amazing job funding the program (these cameras are far from cheap) and, to make sense of this data, the program will have to staff up further with programmers who can help make sense of the data. That's the next arms race, who can turn this data into meaningful, actionable stats. It is extremely exciting.

HaveFunExpectToWin
10-10-2013, 04:35 PM
Kevin Cullen is doing a helluva job.

uh_no
10-10-2013, 06:56 PM
If the Duke staff embraces this system, I think we'll see a lot of surprises with lineups and plays/schemes in the coming years.


you mean this might replace +/-???? NEVER! I will stick to my poor metrics until my dying day!

wilko
10-10-2013, 07:44 PM
As long as we are talking about technological advancements that further the cause...
I've often wondered if we are to the point were there are extremely light weigh motion capture devices to essentially input players movements into x,y,z space inside a computer... I know they do this kind of thing for video games and such... but..

I'm suggesting we push and go further than that..
Lets say we have player x and he/she has a catastrophic injury (I cringe just typing it) that requires surgery and a long re-hab process. If we have a library or some baseline data of that individuals range of motion and strength how helpful would that be in the recovery process?

Perhaps build a digital profile of best practices - release point here, finger position and extension there -that could be boiled down to form and technique refinement to help a give player improve.

Just a thought..

MarkD83
10-10-2013, 08:08 PM
I am a chemist and not an artist, but it would be a very interesting piece of art to be able to take one player and compile all of the images of that player for the course of a game into one picture.

Imagine what the image would be for a point guard vs a wing vs a power forward.

BD80
10-10-2013, 08:36 PM
I am a chemist and not an artist, but it would be a very interesting piece of art to be able to take one player and compile all of the images of that player for the course of a game into one picture.

Imagine what the image would be for a point guard vs a wing vs a power forward.

Increasingly taller?

gep
10-11-2013, 12:15 AM
Some NBA teams have used this system for a couple of years.. by this year, all NBA teams will have the system. I don't think I've heard much of anything about how the system has "worked" for the NBA teams already using it. Still studying the data? Made adjustments based on the data? Anything of value?:confused:

Turk
10-11-2013, 03:18 PM
<bump> for Jarhead and Mr. Synellinden... Merge threads, perhaps?

Jarhead
10-11-2013, 04:01 PM
I guess the moderators have not notice the two threads.

Duvall
10-11-2013, 04:07 PM
I guess the moderators have not notice the two threads.

And yet somehow the board has failed to crash.

Billy Dat
12-09-2013, 05:18 PM
FYI, the NBA has started releasing some of the SportsVU data on NBA.com and its really interesting. It would be so cool to see how Duke is using this stuff:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTracking.html

vick
02-06-2014, 11:05 AM
Interesting article (http://grantland.com/features/expected-value-possession-nba-analytics/) on the work being done with SportsVU in the NBA, hope Duke is finding it useful (I'm sure they can dig up some volunteers to work with the data somewhere in the student population...). Sort of a weird choice to go with an end-of-game situation as the example, since that's where maximizing expected points actually tends to falter relative to a win probability model, but whatever.

Newton_14
02-06-2014, 10:51 PM
Interesting article (http://grantland.com/features/expected-value-possession-nba-analytics/) on the work being done with SportsVU in the NBA, hope Duke is finding it useful (I'm sure they can dig up some volunteers to work with the data somewhere in the student population...). Sort of a weird choice to go with an end-of-game situation as the example, since that's where maximizing expected points actually tends to falter relative to a win probability model, but whatever.

Thanks for this! Great read!

Money quote for me:

But maybe it’s also because our box scores undervalue the importance of the “little things” that players like Parker do and overvalue the most easily quantifiable events like made baskets and rebounds.

OldSchool
02-07-2014, 02:00 AM
Duke has already begun work implementing the next generation of SportVU, in which the datastreams will be integrated on a real-time basis with a Google Glass developed for basketball players called "Google Goggles."

Duke players will wear the Google Goggles while playing, and when a player on court picks up an individual opponent to guard, the Google Goggles will automatically identify the opponent through facial recognition technology and flash preferences and data relating to the opponent, such as whether the player prefers to drive left or right, shooting percentage from the spot where the opponent currently is on floor and current EPV.

Under an optional "woofing" feature, when an opponent misses a big shot or gets abused on the defensive end, the Google Goggles will supply the wearer with an embarrassing fact about the opponent or a member of his family.

Indoor66
02-07-2014, 01:17 PM
Duke has already begun work implementing the next generation of SportVU, in which the datastreams will be integrated on a real-time basis with a Google Glass developed for basketball players called "Google Goggles."

Duke players will wear the Google Goggles while playing, and when a player on court picks up an individual opponent to guard, the Google Goggles will automatically identify the opponent through facial recognition technology and flash preferences and data relating to the opponent, such as whether the player prefers to drive left or right, shooting percentage from the spot where the opponent currently is on floor and current EPV.

Under an optional "woofing" feature, when an opponent misses a big shot or gets abused on the defensive end, the Google Goggles will supply the wearer with an embarrassing fact about the opponent or a member of his family.

We need to equip the crazies with the same technology. Imagine the chants. :cool:

Kfanarmy
02-07-2014, 02:58 PM
Duke has already begun work implementing the next generation of SportVU, in which the datastreams will be integrated on a real-time basis with a Google Glass developed for basketball players called "Google Goggles."

Duke players will wear the Google Goggles while playing, and when a player on court picks up an individual opponent to guard, the Google Goggles will automatically identify the opponent through facial recognition technology and flash preferences and data relating to the opponent, such as whether the player prefers to drive left or right, shooting percentage from the spot where the opponent currently is on floor and current EPV.

Under an optional "woofing" feature, when an opponent misses a big shot or gets abused on the defensive end, the Google Goggles will supply the wearer with an embarrassing fact about the opponent or a member of his family.

Perhaps the team already has this software, but the network is slow?

AncientPsychicT
02-07-2014, 04:11 PM
Duke has already begun work implementing the next generation of SportVU, in which the datastreams will be integrated on a real-time basis with a Google Glass developed for basketball players called "Google Goggles."

Duke players will wear the Google Goggles while playing, and when a player on court picks up an individual opponent to guard, the Google Goggles will automatically identify the opponent through facial recognition technology and flash preferences and data relating to the opponent, such as whether the player prefers to drive left or right, shooting percentage from the spot where the opponent currently is on floor and current EPV.

Under an optional "woofing" feature, when an opponent misses a big shot or gets abused on the defensive end, the Google Goggles will supply the wearer with an embarrassing fact about the opponent or a member of his family.

Shane Battier already has a device that does this embedded in his brain.