Lane Kiffin firing even worse than you think

[JasonEvans]

It is one thing to get fired. Obviously, that's a bad thing for a coach.

It is a whole other step to get fired mid-season. I bet 90% of firings happen after the season is over, so you generally have to really mess up to get fired mid-season.

But what happened to (http://fansided.com/2013/09/29/report-lane-kiffin-fired-lax-parking-lot/) Lane Kiffin at USC takes things to a whole new level.

Apparently, in the middle of the third quarter of the embarrassing loss to Ariz St yesterday, the decision was made to fire Kiffin. This was not some lengthy board of trustees meeting or something like that -- the AD huddled with a couple other officials IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME and said, "this guy needs to go... now!"

https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBhoaHR0cDovL2kxLndwLmNvbS91c2F0dGhlYm lnbGVhZC5maWxlcy53b3JkcHJlc3MuY29tLzIwMTMvMDkva2lm ZmluLWZhY2UtZHVyaW5nLWF6LXN0LmpwZz9maXQ9MTYwMCUyQz E2MDAUgAoU0AUAFgASAA&s=6HY54Pp1px4hhkMoOOa5t4WeQXfcbLKj-fcU1-9iJB4

Of course, they did not tell anyone about their decision right away. And this is where it gets even worse. Kiffin and the team flew back to LA and got onto the team bus at the airport. Then, just as the bus is about to leave, Kiffin is pulled off the bus by AD Pat Hayden and fired RIGHT THERE IN THE PARKING LOT!! The team went back to USC without him.

-Jason "that's cold!" Evans

[BD80]

It is one thing to get fired. Obviously, that's a bad thing for a coach.

It is a whole other step to get fired mid-season. I bet 90% of firings happen after the season is over, so you generally have to really mess up to get fired mid-season.

But what happened to (http://fansided.com/2013/09/29/report-lane-kiffin-fired-lax-parking-lot/) Lane Kiffin at USC takes things to a whole new level.

Apparently, in the middle of the third quarter of the embarrassing loss to Ariz St yesterday, the decision was made to fire Kiffin. This was not some lengthy board of trustees meeting or something like that -- the AD huddled with a couple other officials IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME and said, "this guy needs to go... now!" ... -Jason "that's cold!" Evans

The report relies on this Tweet:

"Here is what happened: A.D. Pat Haden and three administrators including J.K. McKay left game and huddled in small room during 3rd Q"

I like to think that McKay, when later asked about the coach's execution during the ASU game, replied: "I was in favor of it."

[JNort]

Maybe now he will stop getting head coaching jobs....

[Olympic Fan]

Ah ... the same thing happened at Duke, not too long ago.

On Oct. 18, 2003, Duke entered its homecoming game with Wake Forest a dismal 2-4. Head coach Carl Franks was 7-44 since replacing Fred Goldsmith.

Wake Forest, which would finish a mediocre 5-7 that season, took a 42-0 halftime lead. Jim Grobe called off the dogs at halftime ... and Duke lost 42-13.

Carl Franks was officially fired within hours of the completion of the game. But in reality, the decision to fire him was made at halftime.

For the record, he was replaced by defensive coordinator Ted Roof, who brought the team home 2-4 -- with wins over Georgia Tech and UNC and near victories over NC State and Tennessee.

[77devil]

It is one thing to get fired. Obviously, that's a bad thing for a coach.

It is a whole other step to get fired mid-season. I bet 90% of firings happen after the season is over, so you generally have to really mess up to get fired mid-season.

But what happened to (http://fansided.com/2013/09/29/report-lane-kiffin-fired-lax-parking-lot/) Lane Kiffin at USC takes things to a whole new level.

Apparently, in the middle of the third quarter of the embarrassing loss to Ariz St yesterday, the decision was made to fire Kiffin. This was not some lengthy board of trustees meeting or something like that -- the AD huddled with a couple other officials IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME and said, "this guy needs to go... now!"

https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBhoaHR0cDovL2kxLndwLmNvbS91c2F0dGhlYm lnbGVhZC5maWxlcy53b3JkcHJlc3MuY29tLzIwMTMvMDkva2lm ZmluLWZhY2UtZHVyaW5nLWF6LXN0LmpwZz9maXQ9MTYwMCUyQz E2MDAUgAoU0AUAFgASAA&s=6HY54Pp1px4hhkMoOOa5t4WeQXfcbLKj-fcU1-9iJB4

Of course, they did not tell anyone about their decision right away. And this is where it gets even worse. Kiffin and the team flew back to LA and got onto the team bus at the airport. Then, just as the bus is about to leave, Kiffin is pulled off the bus by AD Pat Hayden and fired RIGHT THERE IN THE PARKING LOT!! The team went back to USC without him.

-Jason "that's cold!" Evans

Pretty brutal but the decision, if not the method, is no surprise. Hayden would never have hired him to begin with. Kiffin was in way over his head and Hayden is still cleaning up Mike Garrett's messes. That J. K. McKay, Hayden's lifelong friend and teammate and son of the reveared USC coach, was involved is no surprise either. These two are on a mission to restore USC football.

[sagegrouse]

Ah ... the same thing happened at Duke, not too long ago.

On Oct. 18, 2003, Duke entered its homecoming game with Wake Forest a dismal 2-4. Head coach Carl Franks was 7-44 since replacing Fred Goldsmith.

Wake Forest, which would finish a mediocre 5-7 that season, took a 42-0 halftime lead. Jim Grobe called off the dogs at halftime ... and Duke lost 42-13.

Carl Franks was officially fired within hours of the completion of the game. But in reality, the decision to fire him was made at halftime.

For the record, he was replaced by defensive coordinator Ted Roof, who brought the team home 2-4 -- with wins over Georgia Tech and UNC and near victories over NC State and Tennessee.

You are absolutely correct.

IIRC, Alleva sought out President Nan Keohane at halftime to inform her. When your team is losing 42-0 at the half, and you are surrounded by distinguished visitors, it is easy to agree to anything.

I was watching on TV, and the commentator, Rick "Doc" Walker, said, "This Duke team is better than this." And the final six games proved it.

OTOH, it may have put off the recovery of Duke football for five more years. Roof had some initial success, and Duke was able to kick the can down the road for a good while before ponying up for an experienced, successful coach and a top-notch group of assistants.

sagegrouse

[sagegrouse]

Here's the link to his ESPN article today (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9743113/lane-kiffin-usc-pat-haden-lost-resolve).

Money quote:


Haden found the negatives [in Kiffin]. USC lost the home opener to Washington State. It lost big to ASU. The program, in his eyes, had become inert. But you can't have it both ways. In the same seven-day span, you can't plead with the NCAA to reduce the severe scholarship sanctions that cripple your program and fire your head coach. That's hypocrisy. And that's what Haden did.

I didn't realize that USC was operating with only 56 scholarship players vs. 82. That's fewer than our friends in I-AA (like The Citadel and NCCU) have available.

I really hate Kiffin, so I am not sorry he is gone, but Gene W. makes some good points.

In general, I understand the swiftness of the execution. If you are in an executive goldfish bowl, like USC AD Pat Haden, then you can't keep secrets. Once you've made a decision, announce it.

sagegrouse

[SoCalDukeFan]

"Haden found the negatives [in Kiffin]. USC lost the home opener to Washington State. It lost big to ASU. The program, in his eyes, had become inert. But you can't have it both ways. In the same seven-day span, you can't plead with the NCAA to reduce the severe scholarship sanctions that cripple your program and fire your head coach. That's hypocrisy. And that's what Haden did."

The NCAA severely punished USC and Penn State. NCAA lifted some of the PSU punishment and said it was because Penn State had made substantial progress. Haden thinks USC has made substantial progress, so he asked for the same treatment.

Sure the sanctions have made it tough for Kiffin, but Haden, and USC fans, expected more. So he is gone.

I don't see the hyprocisy. I think if USC was undefeated to this point in the season, Haden still would have tried to get some of the sanctions lifted and I doubt if he used the WSU loss in his presentation.

Not sure if I would use the word "hate" about someone I have never met, but he never should been hired by USC, had done nothing to merit the job, and I am happy that he no longer has the job.

SoCal

[Jim3k]

I'm no fan of Kiffin, either. But Haden was responding to the alumni base in much the same way as the Michigan AD responded to its fan base when he fired Tommy Amaker. Amaker had taken the UM job to right the ship and was handicapped for a number of years by the sanctions imposed upon the program, including the limited number of scholarships. Tommy regained institutional control and was rebounding in the W-L columns.










2001-02
Amaker, Tommy
11-18
5-11
t-8th
Big 10 quarterfinal



2002-03
Amaker, Tommy
18-12
10-6
t-3rd
Big 10 quarterfinal



2003-04
Amaker, Tommy
23-11
8-8
t-5th
Big 10 semifinal
NIT champions


2004-05
Amaker, Tommy
13-18
4-12
9th
Big 10 first round



2005-06
Amaker, Tommy
22-11
8-8
t-6th
Big 10 first round
NIT Finalist


2006-07
Amaker, Tommy
22-13
8-8
t-7th
Big 10 quarterfinal
NIT second round






As Wiki says, the sportswriters labeled him as a coach who couldn't win the big ones. Yet of his six seasons as coach, four were were under self-imposed sanctions. The Maize and Blue fan base forgot how he had been handicapped during those years and judged Amaker against what they thought an un-handicapped coach should have done.

The Beilein hiring may have been a stroke of genius, but UM basically dishonored itself when it fired Amaker for doing what it hired him to do.

Unfair? Yes.

Perhaps the same can be said for Kiffin, but he had other issues which I'm sure Haden perceived.

[TexHawk]

Not sure if I would use the word "hate" about someone I have never met, but he never should been hired by USC, had done nothing to merit the job, and I am happy that he no longer has the job.


I get this and I don't this at the same time. As an assistant at USC, he was the passing game coordinator/TE coach under Norm Chow when they won those two (vacated) championships. Chow went to the NFL, and Kiffin took over, the team went 24-2 or something, and the only thing holding that team back was their defense (together with Vince Young). He then left for the most dysfunctional NFL coaching situation in history, so it was a no real surprise that didn't work out. His 4-12 was bad, yea, but given his success at USC, you can't blame Tennessee for taking a look at him. At Tennessee, he finished 7-6, but signed a top recruiting class.

At this point, you have USC, who knew massive NCAA penalty was coming their way (Pete Carroll certainly knew). So they took a flier on a guy they knew would be loyal, who might bring back some of that offensive firepower from the old Leinart-Bush days, and maybe he sticks out after their scholarship penalties are over.

Obviously, it didn't work out, and I agree that the guy absolutely comes off as a jerk. But, I guess I don't see how USC made a super terrible choice here, given their options. His track record wasn't great, but probably good enough to take a chance on. No top coaching candidates would have touched that situation with a 100 foot cattle prod.

[SoCalDukeFan]

When USC hired Kiffin there was someone on this board, someone who follows the SEC closer than I, who thought it was a big mistake mostly based on "character issues." My attitude at the time was to give him a chance. I (and I guess Mike Garrett) discounted any problems with the Oakland Raiders.

However many, including me, did not think he was the greatest OC at USC. He had some great college players. I was shocked that Oakland hired him but then decided that Al Davis' just lost it. I was more shocked that Tennessee hired him, a pretty big job for someone whose only head coaching experience was a short term losing record in the pros.

I don't think anyone thought the NCAA sanctions would be as severe as they are.

Your point is well taken that the sanctions did put a cloud over the job.

In my opinion USC had more talent than Georgia Tech last year and lost the bowl game. More talent this year than Washington State, and lost at home. Way more talent than Utah State this year and only won by 3 at home. Evidently recruiting is not going well at all for next year.

SoCal

[throatybeard]

I know we did this to Franks, but, no we didn't, not really. We tossed him in the middle of his fifth season, in October, after perhaps the most epic, lengthy pooch-screwing in ACC history. (Okay, I know UVA was bad in the 1960s...but make a list of coaches with worse records in the ACC than Franks and Roof. It's short, if it exists at all).

Let me put this another way. We were so badly coached under Franks that in 2001 against NC State, we failed to get all the defensive guys on the field with the ball on our own 20 or so, and Philip Rivers actually stepped back and paused to let us get all our guys onside, out of mercy. State completed a pass to about the three or so. The opposing quarterback let us get on the right side of the line of scrimmage when half our people were still just running around all over the place. And we still kept Franks around for like twenty more games.

Kiffin has been anything but great at USC, but I'm sort of wondering what they expect to accomplish by tossing him in September. They can't get a sexy free agent coach mid-season. All they can do is tell the boosters, hey, we did it. So then it has to be 100% about making a statement. And then, the brass are indicting themselves by admitting they screwed up so badly by hiring this guy that they needed to fire him in September rather than December. That's a sexy program, not a Duke.

[Jim3k]

More from USAToday's George Schroeder. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/pac12/2013/09/29/analysis-southern-california-now-becomes-a-much-better-job/2891289/)

He covers both the sanctions issue as well as the non-leadership matter. And, I had forgotten the deflated footballs story. What a crook!

Schroeder also gives Kiffin some balance, recalling that Pete Carroll had left USC just ahead of the posse and had left Kiffin with a steaming pile of ripening trouble. It's a fair-minded read--and Kiffin comes out fairly badly, even though the sanctions thing was a real problem for him.

[rasputin]

You are absolutely correct.

IIRC, Alleva sought out President Nan Keohane at halftime to inform her. When your team is losing 42-0 at the half, and you are surrounded by distinguished visitors, it is easy to agree to anything.

I was watching on TV, and the commentator, Rick "Doc" Walker, said, "This Duke team is better than this." And the final six games proved it.

OTOH, it may have put off the recovery of Duke football for five more years. Roof had some initial success, and Duke was able to kick the can down the road for a good while before ponying up for an experienced, successful coach and a top-notch group of assistants.

sagegrouse

I don't remember the details (or even the coach), but one year the (football) St. Louis Cardinals decided to fire their head coach during halftime of the last game, and he found out about it when he tried to get into his office after the game and the locks had been changed.

[94duke]

uconn just fired their football coach as well.

http://college-football.si.com/2013/09/30/paul-pasqualoni-fired-uconn-football/?sct=hp_t2_a7&eref=sihp

[SoCalDukeFan]

Kiffin has been anything but great at USC, but I'm sort of wondering what they expect to accomplish by tossing him in September. They can't get a sexy free agent coach mid-season. All they can do is tell the boosters, hey, we did it. So then it has to be 100% about making a statement. And then, the brass are indicting themselves by admitting they screwed up so badly by hiring this guy that they needed to fire him in September rather than December. That's a sexy program, not a Duke.

Kiffin was going to be gone unless he had a great season. Haden figured out this is not going to be a great season.

Kiffin was thought to be a great recruiter but last year's class fell off at the end and this year's class is not shaping up as very good. Evidently recruits either don't want to play for Kiffin or the uncertainity. Firing Kiffin eliminates the first problem and maybe you can sell the recruits on the idea that USC will hire a great coach. In any case, no worse off in recruiting by getting rid of him.

The coaching fraternity is pretty tight. Hard to interview a coach for the head job if you have a coach. Problem eliminated.

I really don't think Haden worries about the boosters. If so, Kiffin would have been gone after the Sun Bowl.

Interesting artilce in the LA Times today which compares the USC situation to Alabama's. Kiffin = Mike Shula. Nick Saban came in with one year left on sanctions and has built a powerhouse.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/football/la-sp-0930-dufresne-usc-kiffin-20130930,0,2513207.column#axzz2gOYgpOkj

SoCal

[-bdbd]

uconn just fired their football coach as well.

http://college-football.si.com/2013/09/30/paul-pasqualoni-fired-uconn-football/?sct=hp_t2_a7&eref=sihp

That's what happens when you lose to Maryland! Gasp!

BTW, I have to imnagine that Coach Cutcliffe is somewhat enjoying this Kiffin situation, after the way Lane left Cut's old program, Tennessee.

[uh_no]

That's what happens when you lose to Maryland! Gasp!

BTW, I have to imnagine that Coach Cutcliffe is somewhat enjoying this Kiffin situation, after the way Lane left Cut's old program, Tennessee.


randy edsall leaving for maryland has worked out phenomenally for both parties....but hey, i'm sure maryland will contend in the b10 right?

[tommy]

Kiffin was going to be gone unless he had a great season. Haden figured out this is not going to be a great season.

Kiffin was thought to be a great recruiter but last year's class fell off at the end and this year's class is not shaping up as very good. Evidently recruits either don't want to play for Kiffin or the uncertainity. Firing Kiffin eliminates the first problem and maybe you can sell the recruits on the idea that USC will hire a great coach. In any case, no worse off in recruiting by getting rid of him.

The coaching fraternity is pretty tight. Hard to interview a coach for the head job if you have a coach. Problem eliminated.

I really don't think Haden worries about the boosters. If so, Kiffin would have been gone after the Sun Bowl.

Interesting artilce in the LA Times today which compares the USC situation to Alabama's. Kiffin = Mike Shula. Nick Saban came in with one year left on sanctions and has built a powerhouse.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/football/la-sp-0930-dufresne-usc-kiffin-20130930,0,2513207.column#axzz2gOYgpOkj

SoCal

I think it was a combination of the boosters -- these are big time rich LA people -- wanting a statement made, plus trying to put a finger in the dyke re: recruiting. They want to be able to show these recruits that we're serious about getting a real coach in here who has real NFL experience and connections and is worthy of running a program like this, who can get you to the next level like Pete Caroll used to.

Kiffin was obviously not ready for prime time, and Haden knew it from Day One. Kiffin is a jerky, immature, pouty child and he deserves this. He was Mike Garrett's hire -- Garrett didn't listen to anybody -- not Haden's, which is why I never understood why Haden backed him so strongly last off-season, when he really didn't have to. "I support him 150%" was the quote. He regretted saying that the minute it came out of his mouth, cuz he had to know this day was coming.

[Duvall]

randy edsall leaving for maryland has worked out phenomenally for both parties....but hey, i'm sure maryland will contend in the b10 right?

It's worked out pretty well for Edsall and Maryland (#25 in this week's poll).

[uh_no]

It's worked out pretty well for Edsall and Maryland (#25 in this week's poll).

coming off 4 straight bowls and a BCS bowl, to going 6-18 in 2 years, but hey, wins over FIU, ODU, and Uconn....that's big time right there! I grant you, the win over UWV was decent....and they have a fair shot at bowl eligibility....before they start getting massacred next year in the B10...

[awhom111]

No comments from burnspbesq or sue71 yet? I am interested in what my fellow posters with connections to both schools think?

For my part, there are a lot of moving pieces in the whole USC situation that are a little bit more complicated than at most other athletic departments right now.

[ForkFondler]

coming off 4 straight bowls and a BCS bowl, to going 6-18 in 2 years, but hey, wins over FIU, ODU, and Uconn....that's big time right there! I grant you, the win over UWV was decent....and they have a fair shot at bowl eligibility....before they start getting massacred next year in the B10...

I think Maryland can be just as mediocre in the B1G as they are now. But, even fewer people will care.

[Newton_14]

I know we did this to Franks, but, no we didn't, not really. We tossed him in the middle of his fifth season, in October, after perhaps the most epic, lengthy pooch-screwing in ACC history. (Okay, I know UVA was bad in the 1960s...but make a list of coaches with worse records in the ACC than Franks and Roof. It's short, if it exists at all).

Let me put this another way. We were so badly coached under Franks that in 2001 against NC State, we failed to get all the defensive guys on the field with the ball on our own 20 or so, and Philip Rivers actually stepped back and paused to let us get all our guys onside, out of mercy. State completed a pass to about the three or so. The opposing quarterback let us get on the right side of the line of scrimmage when half our people were still just running around all over the place. And we still kept Franks around for like twenty more games.

Kiffin has been anything but great at USC, but I'm sort of wondering what they expect to accomplish by tossing him in September. They can't get a sexy free agent coach mid-season. All they can do is tell the boosters, hey, we did it. So then it has to be 100% about making a statement. And then, the brass are indicting themselves by admitting they screwed up so badly by hiring this guy that they needed to fire him in September rather than December. That's a sexy program, not a Duke.

Great info Throaty. Thanks for sharing that about the State game. As for the timing, I heard today on the Dan Patrick show, that USC wants to get the jump on Texas. Everyone feels like Texas is going to fire Mack Brown at the end of the year, and USC wants to get the jump on Texas with all the big name coaches they intend to pursue. Sort of makes sense to me.

Two top names mentioned were Saban (no way he leaves Bama or the SEC in my opinion. Makes no sense at all) and Chip Kelly (who is under a show cause for the violations at Oregon so I can't see the NCAA waiving that). I think both are a pipe dream. Same thing if Texas is looking at those two guys.

Don't know where USC and possibly Texas go after those two, but Jon Gruden seems to be the next most popular choice. As long as it's not a guy named David Cutcliffe I don't care who either schoold goes after or gets...

[JasonEvans]

Two top names mentioned were Saban (no way he leaves Bama or the SEC in my opinion. Makes no sense at all) and Chip Kelly (who is under a show cause for the violations at Oregon so I can't see the NCAA waiving that). I think both are a pipe dream. Same thing if Texas is looking at those two guys.

Don't know where USC and possibly Texas go after those two, but Jon Gruden seems to be the next most popular choice. As long as it's not a guy named David Cutcliffe I don't care who either schoold goes after or gets...

Here is my question -- how much is a national title worth to USC or Texas? I bet the USC folks know about how much more they will do in ticket sales, sponsorship revs, and especially alumni donations if their team is at the top of the college football heap versus where they are now.

What do we think that figure is? $20 million? $30? More? No way it is less than $15 or $20 million, right?

So, take that figure, cut it in half, and that is probably what Nick Saban would be worth to USC. Saban currently makes $5.3 mil at Alabama. He is criminally underpaid if you ask me. USC should call him up and say, "we want to make you the first 8 figure coach in college football history." Pay him $10 mil! Heck, pay him $15 mil. You know he is worth that much and a few mil more to put your program at the top of the heap (which he is virtually assured of doing given his track record).

I suspect the folks at USC and Texas have already thought of this. They know they will not lure Saban away from Alabama with anything other than a truly ridiculous offer. DOUBLE (his current $5.3 mil) has a nice ring to it. I bet the bidding STARTS at $10 mil and only goes higher from there.

--Jason "in the end, I bet he stays at Bama, but he gets at least a 3 or 4 mil raise" Evans

[cf-62]

Great info Throaty. Thanks for sharing that about the State game. As for the timing, I heard today on the Dan Patrick show, that USC wants to get the jump on Texas. Everyone feels like Texas is going to fire Mack Brown at the end of the year, and USC wants to get the jump on Texas with all the big name coaches they intend to pursue. Sort of makes sense to me.

Two top names mentioned were Saban (no way he leaves Bama or the SEC in my opinion. Makes no sense at all) and Chip Kelly (who is under a show cause for the violations at Oregon so I can't see the NCAA waiving that). I think both are a pipe dream. Same thing if Texas is looking at those two guys.

Don't know where USC and possibly Texas go after those two, but Jon Gruden seems to be the next most popular choice. As long as it's not a guy named David Cutcliffe I don't care who either schoold goes after or gets...

I have no doubt that Jon Gruden would be successful there, but seriously, why would he want the junk that goes along with college football? If he was going to get back into coaching, he would likely go back into the NFL.

[TexHawk]

Here is my question -- how much is a national title worth to USC or Texas? I bet the USC folks know about how much more they will do in ticket sales, sponsorship revs, and especially alumni donations if their team is at the top of the college football heap versus where they are now.

What do we think that figure is? $20 million? $30? More? No way it is less than $15 or $20 million, right?

So, take that figure, cut it in half, and that is probably what Nick Saban would be worth to USC. Saban currently makes $5.3 mil at Alabama. He is criminally underpaid if you ask me. USC should call him up and say, "we want to make you the first 8 figure coach in college football history." Pay him $10 mil! Heck, pay him $15 mil. You know he is worth that much and a few mil more to put your program at the top of the heap (which he is virtually assured of doing given his track record).

I suspect the folks at USC and Texas have already thought of this. They know they will not lure Saban away from Alabama with anything other than a truly ridiculous offer. DOUBLE (his current $5.3 mil) has a nice ring to it. I bet the bidding STARTS at $10 mil and only goes higher from there.

--Jason "in the end, I bet he stays at Bama, but he gets at least a 3 or 4 mil raise" Evans

I don't think it's likely at all, but if Saban leaves, it would only be to Texas, imo. They could pay him $10-12 million+, he could literally sleep 14 hours a day and wake up to 5 star Texas players begging to come play for him. For a guy who turns 62 in a few weeks, he could be entering the stage of his career where he doesn't want to battle LSU, Florida, FSU, Georgia, Auburn for every top player in the southeast. He wins most of those battles, for sure, but it has to take a toll. At Texas it's less about convincing players to come to Austin, it's more about evaluation of where a player fits in your coaching philosophy, which is where Brown has fallen apart.

I was randomly listening to ESPN Radio a few weeks ago, and they had a panel of journalists from different news outlets (a couple from ESPN, one from SI, one from Fox, etc.) The topic was the best coaching jobs in college football, in light of Brown likely being fired. All said Texas is the best job in CFB, and one went as far as saying it's the best job in all of football, including the NFL.

With USC, my money is on Kevin Sumlin. If Bowlsby gets the Texas AD position as rumored, I bet he tries to bring David Shaw after Saban says no. Shaw played at Stanford, so I wouldn't be surprised if he turned it down. Then you're looking at guys in the Art Briles range. Chip Kelly would be deadly in Austin if he didn't have the show-cause issue.

[cf-62]

I don't think it's likely at all, but if Saban leaves, it would only be to Texas, imo. They could pay him $10-12 million+, he could literally sleep 14 hours a day and wake up to 5 star Texas players begging to come play for him. For a guy who turns 62 in a few weeks, he could be entering the stage of his career where he doesn't want to battle LSU, Florida, FSU, Georgia, Auburn for every top player in the southeast. He wins most of those battles, for sure, but it has to take a toll. At Texas it's less about convincing players to come to Austin, it's more about evaluation of where a player fits in your coaching philosophy, which is where Brown has fallen apart.

I was randomly listening to ESPN Radio a few weeks ago, and they had a panel of journalists from different news outlets (a couple from ESPN, one from SI, one from Fox, etc.) The topic was the best coaching jobs in college football, in light of Brown likely being fired. All said Texas is the best job in CFB, and one went as far as saying it's the best job in all of football, including the NFL.

With USC, my money is on Kevin Sumlin. If Bowlsby gets the Texas AD position as rumored, I bet he tries to bring David Shaw after Saban says no. Shaw played at Stanford, so I wouldn't be surprised if he turned it down. Then you're looking at guys in the Art Briles range. Chip Kelly would be deadly in Austin if he didn't have the show-cause issue.

Formula for winning national championship in football

1. Cheat
2. Win Championship
3. Do Probation
Repeat

Why not hire Kelly, take whatever penalties the NCAA throws your way, and win a national championship or 2 in a few years.

[miramar]

Here is my question -- how much is a national title worth to USC or Texas? I bet the USC folks know about how much more they will do in ticket sales, sponsorship revs, and especially alumni donations if their team is at the top of the college football heap versus where they are now.

What do we think that figure is? $20 million? $30? More? No way it is less than $15 or $20 million, right?



UT has been the leaders in royalties for the last eight years:

http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/12/texas-longhorns-merchandise-royalties/

But that's not all, folks. On page 19 of this annual report, UT's Royalties, Advertising, and Sponsorships from Football Operations increased from $7.5 million in 2007-08 to $22.4 million in 2011-12, and that has been with disappointing teams. Total income for the same period rose from $73.0 million to $108.8 million, while net income increased from $53.8 million to $79.0 million.

Since an 8-5 UT football team (4-5 in conference) generated $79 million in profits, and since the numbers are increasing despite their generally disappointing won-loss records, then I would say that your $20-$30 million estimate would be accurate for what we can call the Saban windfall even if they don't win the championship.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tex/genrel/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/2013-athletics-report.pdf

[JetpackJesus]

Ah ... the same thing happened at Duke, not too long ago.

On Oct. 18, 2003, Duke entered its homecoming game with Wake Forest a dismal 2-4. Head coach Carl Franks was 7-44 since replacing Fred Goldsmith.

Wake Forest, which would finish a mediocre 5-7 that season, took a 42-0 halftime lead. Jim Grobe called off the dogs at halftime ... and Duke lost 42-13.

Carl Franks was officially fired within hours of the completion of the game. But in reality, the decision to fire him was made at halftime.

Best part of that game was the half time interview Franks did. He was asked something about the 42-0 deficit and his response was, "Well, they just scored 42 points on us in one half. There's no reason we can't do the same thing in the second half." Then he jogged off to the locker room. That may not be a verbatim quote, but it's really, really close. Right there, at that moment, I knew he needed to be fired. Okay, I actually knew way before then, but that singular moment really crystalized things.

[throatybeard]

Best part of that game was the half time interview Franks did. He was asked something about the 42-0 deficit and his response was, "Well, they just scored 42 points on us in one half. There's no reason we can't do the same thing in the second half." Then he jogged off to the locker room. That may not be a verbatim quote, but it's really, really close. Right there, at that moment, I knew he needed to be fired. Okay, I actually knew way before then, but that singular moment really crystalized things.

I was in an Applebee's in Princeton, WV, during that halftime. I had cajoled a waitress to switch the TV to whatever station carried Raycom/JeffPilot. My wife and I have a little journal in which we draw stick figures of iconic events in our life together. It's a thing we do. I'm pretty sure there's one, that weekend, of me laying money on top of a Wake Forest helmet.

(I didn't actually do that--it's symbolic).

[throatybeard]

I don't doubt that Texas is the king of the hill in terms of resources and demographics. And driving other schools out of their conference out of spite.

But I have to think Saban is where he wants to be. This is not a sport that lent itself to back-to-back titles recently, until they did it. Bama has an insane history. I just can't see any reason why this guy would leave what he's (Re)built at Bama for...

...anywhere.

My last year at Mississippi State, where I was from 2004 to 2007, we upset Bama consecutive years. The Bulldog club sent out commemorative pictures to the donors. I don't know, But somewhere in the pile of crap in my office at UM-Saint Louis, there is probably a picture of two scoreboards of MSU-Bama games.

Now, I don't know who is cheating and who ain't, but I just don't see any upgrade for Saban moving...anywhere.

I think the thing that makes me the saddest about Texas is how we lost our amazing, amazing WBB coach to them, and them with more resources, she did little there, and now...

...I like McCallie.

Saban would have to be a crack puppie, at his age (60ish) to abandon all his work at the marquee program he's at. It's like saying, damn, is Krzyzewski gonna go to Kentucky? I'm guessing no.

Saban is not leaving. He's not. He's not. Does it bother me that Bama keeps winning it all? Yeah. But at least that school is in a smallish state. Alabama is like a fifth the size of Texas.

[sagegrouse]

I don't doubt that Texas is the king of the hill in terms of resources and demographics. And driving other schools out of their conference out of spite.

But I have to think Saban is where he wants to be. This is not a sport that lent itself to back-to-back titles recently, until they did it. Bama has an insane history. I just can't see any reason why this guy would leave what he's (Re)built at Bama for...

...anywhere.

My last year at Mississippi State, where I was from 2004 to 2007, we upset Bama consecutive years. The Bulldog club sent out commemorative pictures to the donors. I don't know, But somewhere in the pile of crap in my office at UM-Saint Louis, there is probably a picture of two scoreboards of MSU-Bama games.

Now, I don't know who is cheating and who ain't, but I just don't see any upgrade for Saban moving...anywhere.

I think the thing that makes me the saddest about Texas is how we lost our amazing, amazing WBB coach to them, and them with more resources, she did little there, and now...

...I like McCallie.

Saban would have to be a crack puppie, at his age (60ish) to abandon all his work at the marquee program he's at. It's like saying, damn, is Krzyzewski gonna go to Kentucky? I'm guessing no.

Saban is not leaving. He's not. He's not. Does it bother me that Bama keeps winning it all? Yeah. But at least that school is in a smallish state. Alabama is like a fifth the size of Texas.

I agree totally. Texas should stay away from Saban. He would be a 62YO at a new school on a five-year contract at -- what? -- 10 million per. It sounds like a victory lap to me, not an incentive to dig in and rebuild a program. Texas should find a rising star who can handle the spotlight.

But, I hate to give Texas sound advice. Think how wonderful it has been -- under Deloss Dodds, Mack Brown and RickBarnes -- for UTexas opponents and haters to be able to visit Austin without seeing that campus tower lit up medium-bright orange after Texas sports victories.

sagegrouse

[Dev11]

I don't doubt that Texas is the king of the hill in terms of resources and demographics. And driving other schools out of their conference out of spite.

But I have to think Saban is where he wants to be. This is not a sport that lent itself to back-to-back titles recently, until they did it. Bama has an insane history. I just can't see any reason why this guy would leave what he's (Re)built at Bama for...

...anywhere.

My last year at Mississippi State, where I was from 2004 to 2007, we upset Bama consecutive years. The Bulldog club sent out commemorative pictures to the donors. I don't know, But somewhere in the pile of crap in my office at UM-Saint Louis, there is probably a picture of two scoreboards of MSU-Bama games.

Now, I don't know who is cheating and who ain't, but I just don't see any upgrade for Saban moving...anywhere.

I think the thing that makes me the saddest about Texas is how we lost our amazing, amazing WBB coach to them, and them with more resources, she did little there, and now...

...I like McCallie.

Saban would have to be a crack puppie, at his age (60ish) to abandon all his work at the marquee program he's at. It's like saying, damn, is Krzyzewski gonna go to Kentucky? I'm guessing no.

Saban is not leaving. He's not. He's not. Does it bother me that Bama keeps winning it all? Yeah. But at least that school is in a smallish state. Alabama is like a fifth the size of Texas.

I don't think Saban is your average 62-year old. He's not retiring at 65 or so. I won't be surprised if he reaches 75 and is still coaching. In that vein, I don't think it's a waste of time for Texas to give him a call.

[Kewlswim]

If Bowlsby gets the Texas AD position as rumored, I bet he tries to bring David Shaw after Saban says no. Shaw played at Stanford, so I wouldn't be surprised if he turned it down. Then you're looking at guys in the Art Briles range. Chip Kelly would be deadly in Austin if he didn't have the show-cause issue.


http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/25/stanfords-shaw-says-hes-staying-at-stanford/

However, if USC offers 30 million a year, or some outrageous amount like that, I believe he can convince his wife to live in Beverly Hills (or somewhere in the L.A. area) during the season and in Palo Alto during the off-season. Coaches can change their mind about where they want to stay at just as players can decide to transfer.

Go DUKE!
Stay Coach Shaw (at Stanford)!

[TexHawk]

I don't think Saban is your average 62-year old. He's not retiring at 65 or so. I won't be surprised if he reaches 75 and is still coaching. In that vein, I don't think it's a waste of time for Texas to give him a call.

Exactly. I don't think anybody is predicting Saban would go to Texas, but it would also not be surprising. There *are* built in advantages in Austin, that can't really be argued. Are they enough to make Saban consider a move? Probably not. But Dodds (or whoever is in place when they fire Mack) should be canned immediately if they don't call and at least ask.

Also, as I alluded to above, I think the age thing probably ends up in Texas's favor. Maybe a 70 year old Saban won't want to compete against Les Miles or Mark Richt for every 5* talent in Alabama/Louisiana/Georgia. A 70 year old Saban could field an NFL caliber starting 22 without getting off his couch in Austin.

[A-Tex Devil]

Exactly. I don't think anybody is predicting Saban would go to Texas, but it would also not be surprising. There *are* built in advantages in Austin, that can't really be argued. Are they enough to make Saban consider a move? Probably not. But Dodds (or whoever is in place when they fire Mack) should be canned immediately if they don't call and at least ask.

Also, as I alluded to above, I think the age thing probably ends up in Texas's favor. Maybe a 70 year old Saban won't want to compete against Les Miles or Mark Richt for every 5* talent in Alabama/Louisiana/Georgia. A 70 year old Saban could field an NFL caliber starting 22 without getting off his couch in Austin.

Well rogue Texas regents calling Nick Saban's agent that are otherwise conspiring with Rick Perry to destroy the university system and turn UT into a diploma mill aside, I think Saban is a bad idea.

The Texas case will be interesting. Mack is gone after this year. But there is a more important battle being waged between the regents/governor and the university president (similar to UVa business school battle) that could, unfortunately, be fought by proxy in the athletic department --- and Mack is on the good guy side there. I'll take Mack and 8-5 in perpetuity if it means that certain regents don't gain more juice through Mack's ouster. As I've seen stated elsewhere, "football is bread and circus, mess with my sheepskin, and you've got a war on your hands."

They'll call Saban, and hopefully get a quick "No." I don't think Shaw would leave Stanford for Texas. Chip Kelly is too associated with street agents (which Texas helped expose) plus the show cause to ever get hired. I almost get the impression Briles would prefer to beat Texas than be at Texas. I think they'll be looking hard at Charlie Strong, John Gruden (who I have warmed to, even though it doesn't make any sense, and there is no indication he wants to coach again), Chris Petersen (shine coming off a bit?), etc.

I dearly want Texas to look at the guy that just went to Wisconsin. Love that dude, but will probably be bad timing, though.

[miramar]

The Texas case will be interesting. Mack is gone after this year. But there is a more important battle being waged between the regents/governor and the university president (similar to UVa business school battle) that could, unfortunately, be fought by proxy in the athletic department --- and Mack is on the good guy side there. I'll take Mack and 8-5 in perpetuity if it means that certain regents don't gain more juice through Mack's ouster. As I've seen stated elsewhere, "football is bread and circus, mess with my sheepskin, and you've got a war on your hands."

I have an MA from UT so I couldn't agree more.

There is no question in my mind that Rick Barnes and baseball coach Augie Garrido (who used to be outstanding) should follow AD DeLoss Dodds out the door in 2014, but I still hope that Mack can right the ship and outlast Rick Perry, who is also retiring next year.

And speaking of Rick Perry, do you know why Major League Baseball doesn't have any Aggie umpires?

Because they have so much trouble calling balls and strikes: Strike one! Strike two! Oops, what's the third one?

[A-Tex Devil]

I have an MA from UT so I couldn't agree more.

There is no question in my mind that Rick Barnes and baseball coach Augie Garrido (who used to be outstanding) should follow AD DeLoss Dodds out the door in 2014, but I still hope that Mack can right the ship and outlast Rick Perry, who is also retiring next year.



I disagree on Mack. He needs to go. His press conference last night was abominable (see his defense of Mike Davis' awful cut block). He's become Nero in that version of the story where Nero started the fire.

My main point (and where I am in agreement with you) is that even though I think Mack's time is up, if it somehow weakens Bill Powers, then keep Mack as long as it takes. All that said, the Texas Athletic Dept is beginning to right the ship in what I think is a manner that won't undermine the president, so the powers that be can rightfully separate the vastly more important university battle with the athletic department upheaval.

The first move *HAD* to be the AD, and now that's done, so the new AD, who should be hired by December even though DeLoss is technically on until August, will have a hand in any new coaching vacancy. If Texas had lost last night, Brown might have been Kiffined -- especially if he had still behaved like a petulant child in the post-game conference after a LOSS to Iowa St. If Texas gets boat raced in Dallas next week, and there is no indication that it won't, I'd give it better than 50/50 odds that Mack finally comes out and says it's his last season before the TCU game 2 weeks later.