Coach K says no to scheduling Maryland in the future

[Class of '94]

Here's further confirmation that the rivalry between Duke in MD in men's basketball is over: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/09/12/coach-k-we-wont-schedule-maryland/

It makes you wonder how long the BIG-ACC challenge will continue. And if you want to read delusional comments, feel free to read the comment section. I thought IC was bad.

[Duvall]

Here's further confirmation that the rivalry between Duke in MD in men's basketball is over: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/09/12/coach-k-we-wont-schedule-maryland/

It makes you wonder how long the BIG-ACC challenge will continue. And if you want to read delusional comments, feel free to read the comment section. I thought IC was bad.

Of course Duke isn't going to schedule Maryland. If Duke wants to schedule a Big Ten team, they can do much better.

[Dev11]

Here's further confirmation that the rivalry between Duke in MD in men's basketball is over: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/09/12/coach-k-we-wont-schedule-maryland/

It makes you wonder how long the BIG-ACC challenge will continue. And if you want to read delusional comments, feel free to read the comment section. I thought IC was bad.

As a regular reader of the Sports Bog, I can attest that there are some normal people but some just completely outrageous people. Steinberg is self-aware, though, and will sometimes call out silliness in the comments.

[OldPhiKap]

And if you want to read delusional comments, feel free to read the comment section. I thought IC was bad.

My favorite (which so captures Md fans in my mind):

"I have a feeling its going to be easy to hate Indiana, Mich St., and Michigan, pretty easily. Any idea which team hit a last sec shot to knock us out of the NCAA's, the last time we made it to the NCAA's? Who we beat in the NC game? And who beat us out Mitch M? There are and will be plenty of reasons to quickly start hating these teams and Ohio St., its going to be awesome."

You really can't make this stuff up.

[Dev11]

My favorite (which so captures Md fans in my mind):

"I have a feeling its going to be easy to hate Indiana, Mich St., and Michigan, pretty easily. Any idea which team hit a last sec shot to knock us out of the NCAA's, the last time we made it to the NCAA's? Who we beat in the NC game? And who beat us out Mitch M? There are and will be plenty of reasons to quickly start hating these teams and Ohio St., its going to be awesome."

You really can't make this stuff up.

I enjoy the implication that K is the wuss in the decision not to play Maryland.

[weezie]

Of course Duke isn't going to schedule Maryland.


Well, right! Of course not. They're not our rivals.
Let them try and foster some home enthusiasm for one of those Big Tenny, Eleventy, Twelvety whatever teams.

Rear view mirror vision of Hobotwerp standing on the side of the road with a bundle of rags hanging off a stick.

[Duvall]

My favorite (which so captures Md fans in my mind):

"I have a feeling its going to be easy to hate Indiana, Mich St., and Michigan, pretty easily. Any idea which team hit a last sec shot to knock us out of the NCAA's, the last time we made it to the NCAA's? Who we beat in the NC game? And who beat us out Mitch M? There are and will be plenty of reasons to quickly start hating these teams and Ohio St., its going to be awesome."

You really can't make this stuff up.

So the Big Bad Big Ten sent major college athletics into multiple years of convulsions to land...Maryland and Rutgers. (And okay, Nebraska.)

Well, good luck with all that.

[Olympic Fan]

Just a small point. K was asked in the article about facing Maryland in the ACC-Big Ten Challenge and he said "that's the only way it's going to happen."

Knowing the way ESPN likes to milk a story, I wouldn't be shocked if we see that matchup in the near future.

PS Actually, that's NOT the only way it happens -- Duke and Maryland could meet in the NCAA Tournament. And there are other in-season tournaments. I doubt that K makes it a condition of Duke's presence in, say, Maui or the preseason NIT that Maryland not be invited.

[throatybeard]

Wer'e just enabling them by even noting their continued existence.

[OldPhiKap]

Wer'e just enabling them by even noting their continued existence.

Who?

[Indoor66]

Who?

You well know who. The Hated Ones.

[OldPhiKap]

You well know who. The Hated Ones.

All roads lead to Chapel Hell.

[mattman91]

Not our rivals.

[chaosmage]

But in the comments, one person alone made me glad we're never going to College Park again. I remember when Maryland got blasted for the F*** Duke t-shirts on ESPN all over the arena. Here (according to the commenter) was their latest piece of trash shirt.

"I'd rather shower at Penn State than play at Duke."

And the fans have the gall to wonder, with stuff like that floating around.

Stay classy.

[Matches]

I feel pretty confident that the Selection Committee will put us in Maryland's bracket at every possible opportunity.

Unfortunately for them, Maryland doesn't actually qualify for the NCAAT very often, so those opportunities may be few and far between.

[sagegrouse]

K said we wouldn't schedule Maryland. He didn't say that we would refuse to play, say, in the Preseason NIT if Maryland were in the field. I expect we will end up playing Maryland every few years on neutral sites.

sagegrouse

[Duvall]

K said we wouldn't schedule Maryland. He didn't say that we would refuse to play, say, in the Preseason NIT if Maryland were in the field. I expect we will end up playing Maryland every few years on neutral sites.

sagegrouse

Maybe, but here's the thing. These early season tournament tend to have only one team per league, and to go for the best teams possible. So if they try to set up a meeting between Duke and Michigan or Indiana, Maryland is out of luck.

[DukieInBrasil]

I couldn't tell if it was snark or not but one comment tried to play up their future rivalries with Nebraska, Iowa and Somewhere Else by saying they were "basketball hotspots" and "don't be surprised if they sell out every time they come to town". Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!

[Edouble]

Maybe, but here's the thing. These early season tournament tend to have only one team per league, and to go for the best teams possible. So if they try to set up a meeting between Duke and Michigan or Indiana, Maryland is out of luck.

Such an early season meeting between Duke and Maryland would seem to hinge on the quality of the Maryland squad. Duke vs. an unranked Maryland team would just not be able sell tickets, ad spots, interest, etc. like Duke vs. Michigan St./Kansas/Indiana/Other Top 5 team.

I think that the powers that be would be would look to Duke as the marquee matchup for a highly ranked (Top 15) Maryland team in the preseason. If Maryland is ever ranked that high in the preseason remains to be seen.

[awhom111]

Personally if it were up to me, this rule would hold for all ACC schools towards all Big Ten schools for all sports.

[Here is a Turtle]

I still question the big deal due to the number of Big East schools the ACC has poached over the last few years. Either way, I don't see this being a big deal in 5-10 years for students because both schools will be on to better things. It would be more media driven than anything else at that point. I would rather pick back up a rivalry with Georgetown considering the short distance and bad blood between the two schools (coaches, recruits, ADs) over the last few decades than pick back up a rivalry, or nonrivalry if you prefer, with Duke.

[OldPhiKap]

South Carolina did not leave the ACC on the best of terms, but over time they play a fair number of ACC schools in all of their sports.

So long, good luck to Maryland.

[greybeard]

Well, right! Of course not. They're not our rivals.
Let them try and foster some home enthusiasm for one of those Big Tenny, Eleventy, Twelvety whatever teams.

Rear view mirror vision of Hobotwerp standing on the side of the road with a bundle of rags hanging off a stick.

Not what K said. I do agree with the "so what," basketball excitement, a rivalry can do without the stuff that has gone at Maryland-Duke games for years. Maryland students mess with Michigan at home basketball games, and wait to see what happens when their er, football team goes to Ann Arbor.

[BigWayne]

All of this commentary is trying to read a lot more into it than exists. Coach K just stated reality. Like ex-ACC member South Carolina, there is no value to Duke to schedule MD. Conference games are scheduled by the league. All other games are scheduled based on what K wants to get out of them. MD and SC games don't really bring any value to the non conference schedule so they won't get scheduled. If Clemson, FSU, or VT weren't in the conference, we wouldn't schedule them either.

[BD80]

I couldn't tell if it was snark or not but one comment tried to play up their future rivalries with Nebraska, Iowa and Somewhere Else by saying they were "basketball hotspots" and "don't be surprised if they sell out every time they come to town". Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!

well, with all of the Nebraska and Iowa alum in the area snapping up tickets, and all of the coverage Nebraska and Iowa get on the East Coast, how couldn't they sell out?


Not what K said. I do agree with the "so what," basketball excitement, a rivalry can do without the stuff that has gone at Maryland-Duke games for years. Maryland students mess with Michigan at home basketball games, and wait to see what happens when their er, football team goes to Ann Arbor.

UM won't sell out for Md. Many students won't show up and those that do will show up late and leave early. Many tickets will be given to family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, passerbys etc. UM is great for ND (ah, the good ol' days) MSU and OSU, but is pretty quiet for meaningless games (quiet for 70,000 +)

[Johnny D.]

Well, right! Of course not. They're not our rivals.
Let them try and foster some home enthusiasm for one of those Big Tenny, Eleventy, Twelvety whatever teams.

Rear view mirror vision of Hobotwerp standing on the side of the road with a bundle of rags hanging off a stick.

I can't wait to bid "Adios" to our nonrivals and their vulgar, wannabe fans. In three years, Duke will still be Duke: contending for national championships, landing blue-chip recruits, on TV more than "Leave It to Beavah" reruns, and proudly watching our coach on the medal stand at the Olympics. Maryland will be a shrinking image in our rear-view mirror, lambs going to slaughter at Homecoming in Ann Arbor.

[greybeard]

well, with all of the Nebraska and Iowa alum in the area snapping up tickets, and all of the coverage Nebraska and Iowa get on the East Coast, how couldn't they sell out?



UM won't sell out for Md. Many students won't show up and those that do will show up late and leave early. Many tickets will be given to family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, passerbys etc. UM is great for ND (ah, the good ol' days) MSU and OSU, but is pretty quiet for meaningless games (quiet for 70,000 +)

I'm not talking about trash talking fans. I talking football players making a statement, Big 10. Big 11, Big whatever, I'm sorry Coach K, they are big and tough beyond anything that the ACC can dream about.

A rivalry, and that is how K described it, should not have had the stuff that infused Duke-Maryland games, especially at Maryland. I think that it is a good thing for Maryland to be in the Big Whatever. Maybe they'll start behaving like fans. That would be good for Maryland, and its students. Had they stayed in the ACC, no hope of any change.

I'm kind of surprised by K's having made a big deal about his intentions with regard to playing Maryland anymore. Does anyone really care. Sure, Maryland defected but the ACC had already imploded; it had long existed as the ACC in name only. To me, calling the conference that Duke is in makes as much sense as calling the Conference that Maryland is in the Big 10. Change. That's just the way it goes.

[BigWayne]

I'm kind of surprised by K's having made a big deal about his intentions with regard to playing Maryland anymore.

Coach K is not making a big deal out of it, the reporters are. They keep asking him about it. He just plainly stated that MD doesn't match up with the criteria Duke uses for scheduling non-con games. The reporters that cover MD (in the latest case from the Washington Post) think it is a big deal we won't play and can't believe Duke isn't all worked up about missing out on playing MD like Syracuse apparently is over Georgetown. There are a lot of people inside the beltway that just don't get it that the rest of the country doesn't think that makes them special.

[howardlander]

All of this commentary is trying to read a lot more into it than exists. Coach K just stated reality. Like ex-ACC member South Carolina, there is no value to Duke to schedule MD. Conference games are scheduled by the league. All other games are scheduled based on what K wants to get out of them. MD and SC games don't really bring any value to the non conference schedule so they won't get scheduled. If Clemson, FSU, or VT weren't in the conference, we wouldn't schedule them either.

I agree with all that, but there is a little more to it, I think. Why would Coach K schedule Maryland, when it is the one place that he doesn't take his family because it's not perceived to be safe? Even if Maryland was somehow built into a perennial top 10 program and met all his other scheduling criteria, I don't think he would ever schedule them.

Howard

[BD80]

I'm not talking about trash talking fans. I talking football players making a statement, Big 10. Big 11, Big whatever, I'm sorry Coach K, they are big and tough beyond anything that the ACC can dream about.
...

The Zips beg to differ ... They should have won - in the Big House - their first road game in FIVE years and their 4th game in four years, some fortunate calls/no-calls enabled a go ahead TD for UM and a goal line stand to clinch the game.

The BIG Whatever isn't close to the SEC, and there's really not much separating the rest.

[arnie]

The Zips beg to differ ... They should have won - in the Big House - their first road game in FIVE years and their 4th game in four years, some fortunate calls/no-calls enabled a go ahead TD for UM and a goal line stand to clinch the game.

The BIG Whatever isn't close to the SEC, and there's really not much separating the rest.

You are 100% correct. The big 10 is more comparable to the ACC in football than they are to the SEC or Big 12. Rpi and Sagarin rank Big 10 4th and ACC 5th this year and that's similar to previous years. Unless Greybeard was referring to BBall and I certainly don't think we take a backseat to Big 10 historically in that sport. The Big 10 is all bark and no bite these days.

[dukeofcalabash]

I agree with the Maryland fans, why would THEY want to play Duke anymore? Answer, THEY wouldn't, and if you want to know the reason just go look up the win/loss totals for Maryland vs Duke while in the ACC.

[Olympic Fan]

I'm not talking about trash talking fans. I talking football players making a statement, Big 10. Big 11, Big whatever, I'm sorry Coach K, they are big and tough beyond anything that the ACC can dream about.


I'd like to see some evidence of this. The ACC has produced far more NFL players in the last 10 years than a "big and tough beyond anything that ACC can dream about" Big Ten (only the SEC has produced more pros than the ACC in this century). While the two leagues don't meet that often, my rough count of ACC/Big Ten matchups shows a dead even record, both over the last five and last 10 years. In recent years, the ACC has beaten Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Nebraska (twice).

Last Saturday's games didn't help your case ... the Big Ten was a mere 7-5 outside the league ... and four of those wins were over the MAC. One of those was Michigan's n arrow win at home over Akron. The Big Ten was 1-4 against BCS opponents (they also lost when UCF trampled Penn State at home).

The one edge the Big Ten has over the ACC is the ability to produce viable national title contenders -- but that's a function of how weak the league and the fact that their normal OOC partner is the Pac 10 ... whereas the ACC's most common BCS partner is the SEC and the great balance -- ACC teams are always knocking ACC teams out of the title picture ...

[Here is a Turtle]

I agree with the Maryland fans, why would THEY want to play Duke anymore? Answer, THEY wouldn't, and if you want to know the reason just go look up the win/loss totals for Maryland vs Duke while in the ACC.

I disagree. Especially after winning the season series for once. The Duke game is a big deal for Maryland fans. So much so that I'm glad we're leaving. It's become too big a deal. Again, I'd rather play Georgetown and be in the Big Ten than play Duke, deal with a SWAT team every few years, and play in the ACC.

[Class of '94]

I'm not talking about trash talking fans. I talking football players making a statement, Big 10. Big 11, Big whatever, I'm sorry Coach K, they are big and tough beyond anything that the ACC can dream about.

A rivalry, and that is how K described it, should not have had the stuff that infused Duke-Maryland games, especially at Maryland. I think that it is a good thing for Maryland to be in the Big Whatever. Maybe they'll start behaving like fans. That would be good for Maryland, and its students. Had they stayed in the ACC, no hope of any change.

I'm kind of surprised by K's having made a big deal about his intentions with regard to playing Maryland anymore. Does anyone really care. Sure, Maryland defected but the ACC had already imploded; it had long existed as the ACC in name only. To me, calling the conference that Duke is in makes as much sense as calling the Conference that Maryland is in the Big 10. Change. That's just the way it goes.

For a minute there I thought you were talking about the SEC. I respect your opinions but completely disagree with them in regards to the big and bad BIG. When was the last time the BIG won a BCS championship?? Early 2000s? Not that long after the ACC won their last BCS championship. And there is clearly no point in bringing up basketball championships and the last time a BIG won a championship in either men's or woemen's basketball. I've lived in the metro Detroit area for the last 6 years and I can tell you first hand that most people here view the BIG as a regional conference and think it has been mediocre conference for awhile. And I wager that the ACC has more big wins against the SEC than the BIG. IMO the BIG hasn't accomplished anything that's bigger and badder than the ACC in about ten years.

[Class of '94]

I disagree. Especially after winning the season series for once. The Duke game is a big deal for Maryland fans. So much so that I'm glad we're leaving. It's become too big a deal. Again, I'd rather play Georgetown and be in the Big Ten than play Duke, deal with a SWAT team every few years, and play in the ACC.

Here is a Turtle, I've found your posts to be fairly objective; and you've made good points in those posts. I may have asked you this before; but could you tell me why you're looking forward to MD's move the the BIG? You appear to be excited about the move and I don't think's because of the increase revenue for your school.

Reading front page article, I get the economics being better for MD right now; and I even get the enjoyment of playing new teams; but I still haven't bought into the argument that the BIG is a "vastly" superior academic and athletic conference compared to the ACC. I get the research network they've created; but I find it hard to believe that being partners with a school like Nebraska and Minn (no offense) is better than partners with Duke, ND, UVA, UNC, etc. I personally look at it as a wash for MD by changing conferences from an athletic and academic standpoint. The money from the BIG Network right now is the key factor (although that could change if there is a paradigm shift in cable tv as many expect to occur).

[BD80]

Here is a Turtle, I've found your posts to be fairly objective; and you've made good points in those posts. I may have asked you this before; but could you tell me why you're looking forward to MD's move the the BIG? You appear to be excited about the move and I don't think's because of the increase revenue for your school.

Reading front page article, I get the economics being better for MD right now; and I even get the enjoyment of playing new teams; but I still haven't bought into the argument that the BIG is a "vastly" superior academic and athletic conference compared to the ACC. I get the research network they've created; but I find it hard to believe that being partners with a school like Nebraska and Minn (no offense) is better than partners with Duke, ND, UVA, UNC, etc. I personally look at it as a wash for MD by changing conferences from an athletic and academic standpoint. The money from the BIG Network right now is the key factor (although that could change if there is a paradigm shift in cable tv as many expect to occur).

Well, think about the frequent flyer miles athletes will get flying to Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska. The only potential bus rides are to Rutgers and Penn State.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I disagree. Especially after winning the season series for once. The Duke game is a big deal for Maryland fans. So much so that I'm glad we're leaving. It's become too big a deal. Again, I'd rather play Georgetown and be in the Big Ten than play Duke, deal with a SWAT team every few years, and play in the ACC.
I'm no Freud but I think it's called rationalizing...

[ChillinDuke]

I disagree. Especially after winning the season series for once. The Duke game is a big deal for Maryland fans. So much so that I'm glad we're leaving. It's become too big a deal. Again, I'd rather play Georgetown and be in the Big Ten than play Duke, deal with a SWAT team every few years, and play in the ACC.

Fair enough. To each his own.

From as objective a mindset as I can possibly use, I see very few positives for this move for MD fans. Actually, the only one I can see is the monetary/financial positive. Other than that I can't figure out one thing I'm happy about if I'm a Maryland fan.

You'd rather play Georgetown. Fine. But that's a noncon game in either the B1G or the ACC - and they don't even have a FBS team in football. So shouldn't that be a moot point? And MD isn't exactly a major football player recently - so I can't imagine the short-term draw is being able to beat out the likes of UM, Ohio St, et. al. for a BCS berth.

So does it come down to being more excited to play UM, OSU, Mich St, Minny, Purdue in basketball several hundreds or a thousand miles away? Instead of Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Pitt, NC State only a couple hundred miles away?

As much as I hated some of the actions of MD fans at those games in College Park, I still would rather MD be in the ACC. At least compared to Louisville. Insofar as those two are concerned, I'd probably prefer MD - but it's not a particularly strong preference outside of history and proximity.

- Chillin

[jimsumner]

I've compared this to the old joke about airline food; not very good and such small portions.

So, my attitude is a strong sense of betrayal, coupled with a strong sense of don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Cognitive Dissonance, 101.

[-jk]

I've compared this to the old joke about airline food; not very good and such small portions.

So, my attitude is a strong sense of betrayal, coupled with a strong sense of don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Cognitive Dissonance, 101.

Might be the best summary of the situation I've heard yet.

-jk

[Henderson]

I've compared this to the old joke about airline food; not very good and such small portions.

So, my attitude is a strong sense of betrayal, coupled with a strong sense of don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Cognitive Dissonance, 101.

I share the dissonance. For all the jokes about the brie and chablis crowd at UNC-CH, it's better than the raw hamburger and Sterno crowd at Maryland.

BTW, I think that joke originated in the Borscht Circuit in the Catskills when there actually WAS edible airline food. Not that it matters.

[rasputin]

I share the dissonance. For all the jokes about the brie and chablis crowd at UNC-CH, it's better than the raw hamburger and Sterno crowd at Maryland.

BTW, I think that joke originated in the Borscht Circuit in the Catskills when there actually WAS edible airline food. Not that it matters.

Woody Allen homaged that joke at the beginning of one of his movies; I think it was Annie Hall.

[Henderson]

Woody Allen homaged that joke at the beginning of one of his movies; I think it was Annie Hall.

Broadway Danny Rose.

[greybeard]

Not counting Florida State, the U, and Virginia Tech, and they really aren't "real" ACC schools now are they, I doubt very much that the ACC has produced more NFL players who have or are playing in the NFL than the "real" Big 10 schools.

There are no conferences any longer, just conglomerates who build their bottom line through acquisition, in the case of college football, that means cherry picking schools that conference and conference member administrators think will pump up the bottom line--"it's not personal Sonny, it's strictly business." To me, K made it personal, and, in doing so, puffed his chest and, in effect, I'm the best and my program is always among the best and you and your basketball program just don't measure up. K ain't making that statement if it was the other way around.

[Blue in the Face]

Not counting Florida State, the U, and Virginia Tech, and they really aren't "real" ACC schools now are they, I doubt very much that the ACC has produced more NFL players who have or are playing in the NFL than the "real" Big 10 schools.

There are no conferences any longer, just conglomerates who build their bottom line through acquisition, in the case of college football, that means cherry picking schools that conference and conference member administrators think will pump up the bottom line--"it's not personal Sonny, it's strictly business." To me, K made it personal, and, in doing so, puffed his chest and, in effect, I'm the best and my program is always among the best and you and your basketball program just don't measure up. K ain't making that statement if it was the other way around.
It's impressive to see you outdo yourself.

[Duvall]

Not counting Florida State, the U, and Virginia Tech, and they really aren't "real" ACC schools now are they, I doubt very much that the ACC has produced more NFL players who have or are playing in the NFL than the "real" Big 10 schools.

I suppose so - the eight schools of the True ACC (Clemson, Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia and Wake Forest) have produced 133 current NFL players, or an average of 16.6 players per school, while the ten schools of the True Big Ten (Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Northwestern, Ohio State, Purdue and Wisconsin) have produced a total of 179 current NFL players, or an average of 17.9 players per school.

What an amazing display of football prowess by the Big Ten.


There are no conferences any longer, just conglomerates who build their bottom line through acquisition, in the case of college football, that means cherry picking schools that conference and conference member administrators think will pump up the bottom line--"it's not personal Sonny, it's strictly business." To me, K made it personal, and, in doing so, puffed his chest and, in effect, I'm the best and my program is always among the best and you and your basketball program just don't measure up.

Well. It don't.

[cf-62]

It's impressive to see you outdo yourself.

I DO think K's remarks were a little bit too far, but honestly, there really is no story here -- he was asked a question by a Maryland grad/fan as a guest on his show. As is ALWAYS the case with Coach K, he answered it with complete candor - where the chips fall, they fall. He did the same thing all the way back 20-some years ago when Mustaf Muhammad's dad asked why we didn't have black assistant coaches. Instead of saying "it's not announced, yet, but Tommy Amaker is joining my staff, and I'm sure we'll hire plenty more black and white coaches in the years to come." It's what Mr. Muhammad wanted to hear, and Mustaf probably comes to Duke. Instead, K answers off the cuff with an even better statement ("I don't hire white coaches or black coaches. I hire good coaches."). To K, it meant the same thing, but it wasn't what the parent wanted to hear.

While the kid and his dad weren't as much of a train wreck as Kris Humphries, it appeared he may be as such, so I'm not sure Coach didn't say that on purpose just to rile the man up.

[Class of '94]

Not counting Florida State, the U, and Virginia Tech, and they really aren't "real" ACC schools now are they, I doubt very much that the ACC has produced more NFL players who have or are playing in the NFL than the "real" Big 10 schools.

There are no conferences any longer, just conglomerates who build their bottom line through acquisition, in the case of college football, that means cherry picking schools that conference and conference member administrators think will pump up the bottom line--"it's not personal Sonny, it's strictly business." To me, K made it personal, and, in doing so, puffed his chest and, in effect, I'm the best and my program is always among the best and you and your basketball program just don't measure up. K ain't making that statement if it was the other way around.

I hear what you're saying; but I think you falling into the trap of "perception" vs reality. The national perception may wall be that the BIG Ten is vastly superior to the ACC in talent and caliber of competition. However, when one actually takes the time to study both conferences and look at various metrics such as the number of championships won, bowl wins and number of players that drafted to the NFL, the ACC stacks up very well in comparison to the BIG Ten. In reality, the BIG and the ACC haven't done anything nationally (from a championship perspective) in a long time. Similarly, both had one dominant team that was carrying the banner for each conference in the late 90s and early 2000s. For the ACC, it was Fla St; and for the BIG, it was Ohio St. And when you look at the current state of both conferences, I'd argue the ACC has more potential going forward. The BIG will always have Ohio St and Mich; but who's that 3rd and 4th team? Nebraska?? They just had a bad loss to UCLA (a bad loss given they had a 19 pt lead and blew it). Penn St??? With the sanctions, it will be a few more years at least before they're in the NC conversation again; and they just lost to UCF.

As far as the K making it personal. Maybe he did; but I'd argue that MD made it personal by the way they handled their decision to leave the conference. Blatantly lying to their colleagues by saying they were all in with the ACC while secretly negotiating with the BIG to leave; the way MD treated an ACC rep who was on MD's campus the weekend MD signed the agreement with the BIG (you can email David Teel, a well respected writer out of VA that covers the VT, UVA and the ACC to get an idea of what I'm referring to in regards to the ACC rep treatment); not returning phone calls to Swofford and other ACC Presidents leading up to the announced departure; and then the way the some of the school's administrators and lawyers have take academic and athletic shots at the ACC in explaining their public reasons for leaving the ACC. I give the President of MD credit for being honest and saying that it was all about the money as the reason for MD leaving. All in all, for a founding member of the ACC, imo MD could've handled things better and in more respectful manner.

I thought Syracuse (a founding member of the Big East) handled their departure from the BE much better and in a more respectful way than MD imo; and wished MD could've handled their departure similarly.

That said, it doesn't mean K or the ACC has to take MD's departure personally; but I can understand while they would given the circumstances.

[alteran]

Not counting Florida State, the U, and Virginia Tech, and they really aren't "real" ACC schools now are they, I doubt very much that the ACC has produced more NFL players who have or are playing in the NFL than the "real" Big 10 schools.

I hate these "real" school definitions, I suspect the B1G will use this to slough future Maryland mediocrity onto the ACC. Perhaps there's a stature of limitations on "realness"? The mind boggles.

This must give the record keepers fits.


There are no conferences any longer, just conglomerates who build their bottom line through acquisition, in the case of college football, that means cherry picking schools that conference and conference member administrators think will pump up the bottom line--"it's not personal Sonny, it's strictly business." To me, K made it personal, and, in doing so, puffed his chest and, in effect, I'm the best and my program is always among the best and you and your basketball program just don't measure up. K ain't making that statement if it was the other way around.

I don't get this at all. Jim nailed the cognitive dissonance Duke fans have-- being hurt by the loss while also feeling good riddance to bad rubbish.

Maryland has their own case of dissonance. "You ACC guys are scumbags for not letting us put you in the rearview mirror as quickly as possible-- AND for refusing to schedule us."

I find the claims of K making it "personal" ridiculous. The linked article shows K going out of his way to make it clear that it WASN'T personal. The ACC sched reduces to a bare minimum the amount of discretionary games Duke has. Maryland does not fit the profile of teams that Duke would normally schedule with what few games it has. The criteria K explained are clearly demonstrated by the PAST non-conf games Duke has scheduled.

Has Maryland's behavior warranted special treatment? I think not.

Maryland leaving does hurt, but man I am not going to miss their unique combination of whinyness, paranoia, and entitlement.

[TexHawk]

I find the claims of K making it "personal" ridiculous. The linked article shows K going out of his way to make it clear that it WASN'T personal. The ACC sched reduces to a bare minimum the amount of discretionary games Duke has. Maryland does not fit the profile of teams that Duke would normally schedule with what few games it has. The criteria K explained are clearly demonstrated by the PAST non-conf games Duke has scheduled.

Has Maryland's behavior warranted special treatment? I think not.


I have been trying to figure out a way to bring this up without being rude, but when Bill Self made roughly the same statement about refusing to play Missouri after they moved to the SEC, he was lightly ripped around these parts. For being petty or something.

Of course, a lot has happened since then. :)

[Duvall]

I have been trying to figure out a way to bring this up without being rude, but when Bill Self made roughly the same statement about refusing to play Missouri after they moved to the SEC, he was lightly ripped around these parts. For being petty or something.

Of course, a lot has happened since then. :)

Well, sure. Kansas and Missouri are rivals.

[TexHawk]

Well, sure. Kansas and Missouri are rivals.

LOL. And touche.

[Duvall]

LOL. And touche.

I mean, you're right that there's a been a double standard around here on that point. But I think that there would have been more interest from Duke fans and from Duke in continuing a series with North Carolina had they left for another conference than we see now with Maryland.

[Matches]

I mean, you're right that there's a been a double standard around here on that point. But I think that there would have been more interest from Duke fans and from Duke in continuing a series with North Carolina had they left for another conference than we see now with Maryland.

No doubt, but you could substitute any other team for "Maryland" and that would still be true.

As a fanbase we tend to protest too much when it comes to Maryland, clearly taking special pleasure in beating them while denying that we care. Of course the "rivalry" between the two schools means more to them than it does to us, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless to us.

[Capn Poptart]

Why would any ACC school regularly schedule a team that has bitterly complained about the league for decades? :confused:

Terps got what they wanted: "No more N.C. mafia." So stop whining now that the "mafia" won't schedule you.

[BD80]

Why would we schedule Maryland? There are not many open dates on the schedule for nonconference games. We had 13 last year, 3 from a tournament and one chosen for us in the Challenge. Since the issue is the games Duke chooses to schedule, we're talking about 9 games last year.

Coach K likes to schedule top 10/20 teams to test his squad and to build SOS, Md doesn't qualify there.

Coach K likes to schedule a variety of styles of play, particularly non-BCS conference teams that are likely to make the tourney to give the team an idea of what might be in store in the first couple rounds of the tourney. Md misses on two fronts, a BCS conference (that Duke gets a "taste" of in the Challenge) and not likely to make the tourney.

Coach K likes to schedule games in areas he is recruiting or to give a player a game near his home town. I imagine UVa already fulfills that criteria, but if DC proper is desired, I would imagine Georgetown would be the more natural opponent.

In my recollection, the only team in the BIG whatever that Duke has scheduled in Coach K's tenure (outside tournaments and the Challenge) is Michigan. I've met Michigan, Maryland is no Michigan.

Why would Duke schedule Maryland?

[weezie]

This whole thread has made me look forward, with GREAT anticipation, to the first setting of his foot upon the, yes, MAJESTIC court of Cameron Indoor Stadium by himself, Jim Boeheim on February 22, 2014.

Maryland, schmaryland.

[TexHawk]

I mean, you're right that there's a been a double standard around here on that point. But I think that there would have been more interest from Duke fans and from Duke in continuing a series with North Carolina had they left for another conference than we see now with Maryland.

I wasn't being sarcastic, you literally made me laugh out loud.

UNC/Duke is different, imo. If you did split, there is still non-rivalry value in playing them (like tournament seeding), though it would probably only be once a year. KU playing Mizzou, Duke playing Maryland won't have that value, at least not most years. You could get a Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier type team to come to CIS or AFH and provide the same challenge, plus you get to keep the gate receipts (bigger issue for KU than Duke).

[Kdogg]

I have been trying to figure out a way to bring this up without being rude, but when Bill Self made roughly the same statement about refusing to play Missouri after they moved to the SEC, he was lightly ripped around these parts. For being petty or something.

Of course, a lot has happened since then. :)

The Mizzo/KU game is very different. That rivalry is (was?) over a hundred years old and predates any conference. It has its roots in the pre Civil War conflict between the two areas. Duke/MD has had a few sketches were the series was competitive but it lacks the historical context and the bad blood from the Duke side.

[jv001]

This whole thread has made me look forward, with GREAT anticipation, to the first setting of his foot upon the, yes, MAJESTIC court of Cameron Indoor Stadium by himself, Jim Boeheim on February 22, 2014.

Maryland, schmaryland.

Don't let the door hit ya, where The Good Lord split ya!

[Olympic Fan]

I'm confused. The story that this thread is responding to is not news -- I heard K say last spring that Duke would not schedule Maryland in the future. I'm not sure what the story is.

In fact, I talked to an ACC official earlier today about this and he said that NOBODY in the ACC would be scheduling Maryland -- not in football or basketball.

League officials -- including the league presidents and ADs -- are seriously POed at the Terps for their manner of dishonest and stealthy departure. The lawsuit issue has continued to irritate ACC people -- I keep reading legal experts who predict that the suit will be settled, but I'm hearing from the ACC side that they will NEVER settle. They are out for blood, not money. There is serious hatred there.

So K says Duke won't schedule Maryland in the future ... well, neither will Roy Williams, Leonard Hamilton, Tony Bennett or any other current ACC coach. Neither will Dabo Swinney, Jimbo Fisher, Frank Beamer or any other football coaches. Don't know about the new guys.

[Edouble]

I'm confused. The story that this thread is responding to is not news -- I heard K say last spring that Duke would not schedule Maryland in the future. I'm not sure what the story is.

In fact, I talked to an ACC official earlier today about this and he said that NOBODY in the ACC would be scheduling Maryland -- not in football or basketball.

League officials -- including the league presidents and ADs -- are seriously POed at the Terps for their manner of dishonest and stealthy departure. The lawsuit issue has continued to irritate ACC people -- I keep reading legal experts who predict that the suit will be settled, but I'm hearing from the ACC side that they will NEVER settle. They are out for blood, not money. There is serious hatred there.

So K says Duke won't schedule Maryland in the future ... well, neither will Roy Williams, Leonard Hamilton, Tony Bennett or any other current ACC coach. Neither will Dabo Swinney, Jimbo Fisher, Frank Beamer or any other football coaches. Don't know about the new guys.

Williams, Hamilton, Bennett, etc. aren't at the helm of Maryland's (non-mutual) rival. Maryland fans circle the Duke games on their calendars. Any other school and it's probably not even a question that comes up for the coach of the school ("Will you schedule Maryland in the future?").

I agree it's a non-story for Duke folks, but it is fairly clear why it is a story for Maryland folks. We are the bad guy, and they love playing us and rioting afterwards, or something to that effect.

[Dev11]

I'm confused. The story that this thread is responding to is not news -- I heard K say last spring that Duke would not schedule Maryland in the future. I'm not sure what the story is.

In fact, I talked to an ACC official earlier today about this and he said that NOBODY in the ACC would be scheduling Maryland -- not in football or basketball.

League officials -- including the league presidents and ADs -- are seriously POed at the Terps for their manner of dishonest and stealthy departure. The lawsuit issue has continued to irritate ACC people -- I keep reading legal experts who predict that the suit will be settled, but I'm hearing from the ACC side that they will NEVER settle. They are out for blood, not money. There is serious hatred there.

So K says Duke won't schedule Maryland in the future ... well, neither will Roy Williams, Leonard Hamilton, Tony Bennett or any other current ACC coach. Neither will Dabo Swinney, Jimbo Fisher, Frank Beamer or any other football coaches. Don't know about the new guys.

Syracuse is not on board with this plan, apparently, but they are the only ones:

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/big-ten/maryland-terrapins.php

[OldPhiKap]

Syracuse is not on board with this plan, apparently, but they are the only ones:

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/big-ten/maryland-terrapins.php

Not sure if that is a home-and-away that was contracted for some time in the past. (Not sure how that works).

Maryland's fans need to get their whine straight -- first they are glad to escape a conference that was NC-centric and treated them like they were in Alaska, and now they want to be be loved and respected as peers after telling the ACC to go take a flying leap. I hate being with you, I hate that you don't want to be with me.

And yes, this kind of bad blood lasts a long time. Ask BC why they are staunchly against UConn joining the ACC. (Hint:http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/blogs/dog-house/BC-Admits-It-Doesnt-Want-UConn-in-ACC-131528913.html )

[Dev11]

Not sure if that is a home-and-away that was contracted for some time in the past. (Not sure how that works).

Maryland's fans need to get their whine straight -- first they are glad to escape a conference that was NC-centric and treated them like they were in Alaska, and now they want to be be loved and respected as peers after telling the ACC to go take a flying leap. I hate being with you, I hate that you don't want to be with me.

And yes, this kind of bad blood lasts a long time. Ask BC why they are staunchly against UConn joining the ACC. (Hint:http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/blogs/dog-house/BC-Admits-It-Doesnt-Want-UConn-in-ACC-131528913.html )

The deal was signed this summer:

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2013/07/syracuse_and_maryland_to_play.html

I agree, Maryland is not exactly sending a straight message here, but I'd say there is certainly some disconnect between the university leadership who made the B1G decision and the fans of the teams.

[OldPhiKap]

The deal was signed this summer:

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2013/07/syracuse_and_maryland_to_play.html

I agree, Maryland is not exactly sending a straight message here, but I'd say there is certainly some disconnect between the university leadership who made the B1G decision and the fans of the teams.

Thanks, Dev. Money quote:

"The idea was first mentioned by Maryland head coach Randy Edsall during his interview session at the ACC Football Kickoff. Edsall, who played and coached at Syracuse for a total of 15 years, said SU and Maryland were already working on scheduling games for the future -- something he was excited about.

"Frazier, who is in attendance for Syracuse's first ACC Football Kickoff, confirmed Edsall's account.

"Frazier said he and athletic director Daryl Gross are close friends with Gross' counterpart at Maryland, Kevin Anderson. That friendship will carry the rivalry forward beyond the ACC."


I also agree that there is some schizophrenia between and among the fans, the administration, and the Body Turtle. Maybe if they rioted for awhile, it would be therapeutic.

[Class of '94]

I'm confused. The story that this thread is responding to is not news -- I heard K say last spring that Duke would not schedule Maryland in the future. I'm not sure what the story is.

In fact, I talked to an ACC official earlier today about this and he said that NOBODY in the ACC would be scheduling Maryland -- not in football or basketball.

League officials -- including the league presidents and ADs -- are seriously POed at the Terps for their manner of dishonest and stealthy departure. The lawsuit issue has continued to irritate ACC people -- I keep reading legal experts who predict that the suit will be settled, but I'm hearing from the ACC side that they will NEVER settle. They are out for blood, not money. There is serious hatred there.

So K says Duke won't schedule Maryland in the future ... well, neither will Roy Williams, Leonard Hamilton, Tony Bennett or any other current ACC coach. Neither will Dabo Swinney, Jimbo Fisher, Frank Beamer or any other football coaches. Don't know about the new guys.

I agree that this may not be new news; but as others have mentioned, the link from the first post gives insight into how MD fans are viewing K's decision to not play MD anymore. And the MD fan reaction in the comments section to this is incredibly interesting. I'm telling you it may be worse than reading IC.

Also, to my knowledge, K is the only coach that has pubicly said that Duke will not play MD (at least in basketball). I don't recally any other coach (basketball or football) saying the same thing publicly. Thus, K and Duke becomes even more of a focus of hatred and dislike for many MD fans.

[-jk]

I agree that this may not be new news; but as others have mentioned, the link from the first post gives insight into how MD fans are viewing K's decision to not play MD anymore. And the MD fan reaction in the comments section to this is incredibly interesting. I'm telling you it may be worse than reading IC.

Also, to my knowledge, K is the only coach that has pubicly said that Duke will not play MD (at least in basketball). I don't recally any other coach (basketball or football) saying the same thing publicly. Thus, K and Duke becomes even more of a focus of hatred and dislike for many MD fans.

K has probably been the only coach specifically asked...

-jk

[Johnboy]

Broadway Danny Rose.

It was Annie Hall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrxlfvI17oY).

Sorry I don't have anything else to contribute, except to say I share the same cognitive dissonance as regards Maryland leaving.

[-jk]

It was Annie Hall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrxlfvI17oY).

Sorry I don't have anything else to contribute, except to say I share the same cognitive dissonance as regards Maryland leaving.

My cognitive dissonance? Kevin Anderson lives across the street. My daughter is a classmate of his daughter. My son plays with his son.

Sheesh.

(My wifi ssid is "GoDuke". So there!)

-jk

[brevity]

In fact, I talked to an ACC official earlier today about this and he said that NOBODY in the ACC would be scheduling Maryland -- not in football or basketball.

Now THAT'S a story. The first bit of information in this thread worth reporting.

It's not as if ACC teams would be clamoring to schedule Maryland anyway, at least right now. But once enough time passes and we phase out the current principals -- coaches, ADs, presidents, conference officials -- will Maryland still be characterized as an undesirable that requires a boycott from ACC schools acting in concert? It's a major conference program in the ACC footprint, well within driving distance. There are only so many of those.

[-jk]

Now THAT'S a story. The first bit of information in this thread worth reporting.

It's not as if ACC teams would be clamoring to schedule Maryland anyway, at least right now. But once enough time passes and we phase out the current principals -- coaches, ADs, presidents, conference officials -- will Maryland still be characterized as an undesirable that requires a boycott from ACC schools acting in concert? It's a major conference program in the ACC footprint, well within driving distance. There are only so many of those.

South Carolina would be a good touchstone.

-jk

[Indoor66]

South Carolina would be a good touchstone.

-jk

I may be wrong about this, but I think that Clemson is the only ACC school that schedules South Carolina and that is the only major in-state rivalry in SC.

[greybeard]

Syracuse is not on board with this plan, apparently, but they are the only ones:

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/big-ten/maryland-terrapins.php

Syracuse is in the ACC?

[Indoor66]

Syracuse is in the ACC?

Where have you been hiding?

See: Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame and Louisville.

[greybeard]

I suppose so - the eight schools of the True ACC (Clemson, Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia and Wake Forest) have produced 133 current NFL players, or an average of 16.6 players per school, while the ten schools of the True Big Ten (Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Northwestern, Ohio State, Purdue and Wisconsin) have produced a total of 179 current NFL players, or an average of 17.9 players per school.

What an amazing display of football prowess by the Big Ten.



Well. It don't.

Not K's best day. If his program is Maryland's and Maryland's Duke, it would have been silly to have made this comment. K is bold but not that bold. So his comment had meaning only because he is K and you're not. Nope, not his best day.

[Indoor66]

Not K's best day. If his program is Maryland's and Maryland's Duke, it would have been silly to have made this comment. K is bold but not that bold. So his comment had meaning only because he is K and you're not. Nope, not his best day.

K was responding honestly to a direct question.

[greybeard]

Where have you been hiding?

See: Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame and Louisville.

Oh, but where does that leave K's comment about Maryland. He and the other ACC honcho's bust the Big East to smithereens and K faults Maryland for leaving for the green. Please, the guy stepped into territory that surprised me. I trust he'd take it back if he could.

[-jk]

The ACC asked to approach the big east schools. Maryland hid behind a wall of denial. Big difference.

-jk

[Kdogg]

I may be wrong about this, but I think that Clemson is the only ACC school that schedules South Carolina and that is the only major in-state rivalry in SC.

UNC and USC have a home and home in football that started this year.

[-jk]

The ACC asked to approach the big east schools. Maryland hid behind a wall of denial. Big difference.

-jk

[Edouble]

The ACC asked to approach the big east schools. Maryland hid behind a wall of denial. Big difference.

-jk

OK! I heard ya the first time!

[OldPhiKap]

I may be wrong about this, but I think that Clemson is the only ACC school that schedules South Carolina and that is the only major in-state rivalry in SC.

The Carolina's played each other in football earlier this year. But it has not been a very regular thing.

Clemson-USC is a nasty ugly rivalry. Lots of real hate.

[Duvall]

The ACC asked to approach the big east schools. Maryland hid behind a wall of denial. Big difference.

-jk

Asked who? The assorted Big East commissioners have said the opposite.

[Dev11]

Asked who? The assorted Big East commissioners have said the opposite.

How I'm curious, either of you have a link with quotes about this? I distinctly recall that Maryland stayed quiet until the deal was done, but I don't recall how the timeline worked for Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, and Louisville.

[Duvall]

How I'm curious, either of you have a link with quotes about this? I distinctly recall that Maryland stayed quiet until the deal was done, but I don't recall how the timeline worked for Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, and Louisville.

2003. (http://old.post-gazette.com/sports/collegeother/20030419bigeast0419p4.asp)


"I have no use for the ACC right now," Tranghese said. "They're a bunch of hypocrites. They operate in the dark. They'll never acknowledge this, but I'm aware the ACC, for the last couple years, without ever picking up the phone or calling me, has basically gone out and tried to convince our teams to join their league.

"They have made two presentations to the University of Miami -- and have been turned down -- but they continue to come back, hoping to get the right answer. They've gone to Syracuse, Boston College and Virginia Tech."

Never happened, Swofford told the Durham Herald-Sun.

2011. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/15596076/pitt-syracuse-kick-superconference-chain-into-gear)


A Big East source told CBSSports.com that the league was not notified by Pittsburgh and Syracuse that it had submitted letters of application to the ACC until Saturday morning. It blind-sided the league, one source said.

[Dev11]

2003. (http://old.post-gazette.com/sports/collegeother/20030419bigeast0419p4.asp)



2011. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/15596076/pitt-syracuse-kick-superconference-chain-into-gear)

Wow. Sounds just like the ACC's reaction to Maryland. I mean, I've always known that the whole conference realignment thing was shady, so I guess none of this is surprising.

Can we go back to playing in an 8 team conference? Pretty please?