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jimsumner
08-27-2013, 03:56 PM
Cut wants to play lots of people against NC Central Saturday. At least 60. Five to seven true freshmen should play but final determination has not been made.

Many of those true freshmen should be DBs. Duke has 14 DBs listed on the depth chart. Five are true freshmen, two are redshirt freshmen, three sophomores. One of the four upperclassmen is walk-on Jacques Bristow.

Interestingly, Evertt Edwards, the most hyped of the true freshmen corners has been bypassed-at least for now--by classmates Breon Borders and Bryon Fields.
DE Justin Foxx singled out these two guys and true freshman safety Deondre Singleton as youngsters who have impressed him this fall.

Two true freshmen WRs, Ryan Smith and Johnell Barnes, also have stood out and either or both could play Saturday.

Redshirt senior Garrett Patterson will get the starting nod at the corner opposite Ross Cockrell. Cut said that Patterson has ACC talent but has lacked confidence. Secondary coach Derek Jones has made Patterson his pet project and Patterson has shown definite improvement this fall.

The official injury report is due Thursday. But Cut said the previously acknowledged injuries to Thomas Sirk, Tanner Stone, Casey Blaser and Jordan DeWalt-Ondijo are it right now. Only Stone has been ruled out for the entire season. Cut says this is the healthiest Duke team he has had at this point in the season.

Speaking on injuries, Duke came out of the spring with the expectation that Foxx would miss some time at the beginning of the season, following knee surgery. But Foxx is practicing without restriction and is ready to go Saturday. Cut cited Foxx's off-season work ethic. "Didn't waste a day."

Foxx, Cockrell, offensive guard Dave Harding and QB Anthony Boone were named co-captains earlier this week. The voting was by teammates. The sentiment is that Cockrell will call the coin-tosses. Cockrell says "you can't fail with tails."

Duke doesn't expect any changes in Central because of the coaching change. Not enough time and the OC and DC are still around. Cut cited NCCU's speed and said Duke wanted to test its speed against another fast team.

Harding, Foxx and Cockrell all say that Duke is practicing at a level they haven't previously seen. Healthier squad, more experience, more continuity. Cut says Duke has 32 players with at least two career starts at Duke. Says Duke is practicing faster and with more confidence. He says he feels better about the secondary than he did going into the fall and says the receivers "will produce at last year's level."

Thomas Hennessy has locked down the long snapper spot and has looked very good this fall.

Kickoff Saturday at 4 of the clock. All the cool people will be there.

OldPhiKap
08-27-2013, 04:27 PM
Excellent to see these again!!!!!!!!! I'm stoked for the season to kick off and glad to hear Cut's view of where this team is relative to past years. Every year, forward progress.

This would be a great year for big steps!

Everyone climb on board, the train's got lots of room!

ChillinDuke
08-27-2013, 04:55 PM
You ain't kidding, OPK.

My heart started beating a little faster reading Jim's update. Slightly startled at myself.

Could it be?...

Am I on the train?!

Choo choo!!!

- Chillin

Olympic Fan
08-27-2013, 05:17 PM
Just a guess at the "five-to-seven" true freshman who will play:

The five most likely: WR Ryan Smith; WR Johnell Barnes; DB Breon Borders; DB Bryan Fields; DB Deondre Singleton

The sixth guy would be safety Chris Holmes

The seventh gut would either be CB Evert Edwards or S Quay Mann

There could be more, depending on injuries at certain position. For instance, Duke has four quality running backs. That's plenty but if 2-3 go down, we could see freshman Joe Ageigbe -- he's looked good, but ought to be redshirted.

Several redshirt freshmen will definitely play -- CB Devon Edwards, TE Dan Bielinson, WR Anthony Nash, DT Anthony Wolf, S Corbin McCarthy for sure

jimsumner
08-27-2013, 06:22 PM
Just a guess at the "five-to-seven" true freshman who will play:

The five most likely: WR Ryan Smith; WR Johnell Barnes; DB Breon Borders; DB Bryan Fields; DB Deondre Singleton

The sixth guy would be safety Chris Holmes

The seventh gut would either be CB Evert Edwards or S Quay Mann

There could be more, depending on injuries at certain position. For instance, Duke has four quality running backs. That's plenty but if 2-3 go down, we could see freshman Joe Ageigbe -- he's looked good, but ought to be redshirted.

Several redshirt freshmen will definitely play -- CB Devon Edwards, TE Dan Bielinson, WR Anthony Nash, DT Anthony Wolf, S Corbin McCarthy for sure

Note that McCarthy actually played in a couple of games last season before suffering a season-ending shoulder injury. Few enough that he qualified for an injury redshirt but enough to get his feet wet. He was running ahead of fellow true freshman Dwayne Norman when he suffered the injury. So, a nice head-start for McCarthy.

I would add NG Keilin Rayner to the redshirt freshman likely-to-play-list. And starting long snapper Hennessy is a redshirt freshman. DE Allen Jackson had a nice fall and might factor in, especially with DeWalt-Ondijo still rehabbing.

chrishoke
08-27-2013, 09:23 PM
"Cut says this is the healthiest Duke team he has had at this point in the season."

Music to my ears. Knock on wood.

nyesq83
08-27-2013, 10:02 PM
Thanks Jim! Encouraging words. See you all on Saturday.

Dev11
08-28-2013, 08:42 AM
"Cut says this is the healthiest Duke team he has had at this point in the season."

Music to my ears. Knock on wood.

Amen! More than anything, I think, this is key. A healthy defense would be a wonderful thing to have this year.

Thank you for the notes, Jim. I'm excited to see what we have on both sides of the ball.

Ross Cockrell has come a long way from overmatched freshman to senior leader. I saw that the Duke Shop is now selling #6 jerseys, although we all know that its coincidence that #6 is a senior captain this year :)

Bob Green
08-28-2013, 05:56 PM
Cut wants to play lots of people against NC Central Saturday. At least 60.

A two deep depth chart is 47 players (counting one kicker, one punter and one long snapper), so that means 13 3rd stringers will be in the rotation, which is a good thing because it means we have ACC level talent three deep at many positions -- these guys aren't going to play out of necessity, they are going to play because they are talented and ready to contribute.

Our first three games are afternoon games with the Memphis game being on artificial turf so the staff plans to play lots of players early to keep the team fresh. While I am confident Coach Cutcliffe is focused on the here and now in September, there is no doubt in my mind he has at least half an eye on November.

I know this is really strange folks, but we have solid depth on this team. Please, please, please stay healthy and we are poised to make some noise.

devildeac
08-28-2013, 06:41 PM
A two deep depth chart is 47 players (counting one kicker, one punter and one long snapper), so that means 13 3rd stringers will be in the rotation, which is a good thing because it means we have ACC level talent three deep at many positions -- these guys aren't going to play out of necessity, they are going to play because they are talented and ready to contribute.

Our first three games are afternoon games with the Memphis game being on artificial turf so the staff plans to play lots of players early to keep the team fresh. While I am confident Coach Cutcliffe is focused on the here and now in September, there is no doubt in my mind he has at least half an eye on November.

I know this is really strange folks, but we have solid depth on this team. Please, please, please stay healthy and we are poised to make some noise.

He might not have any 3rd team players "in the rotation" depending on how many different first/second team guys he has playing on special teams, such as punt returns (hopefully we'll have a couple or three nice long run backs), punts (hopefully only one or two-just for "practice";)), kick offs (hopefully lots of these:D) and kick off returns (I'd be happy with just one of these:).) But, I'm with you, Bob, I'd like to see us 3 deep at a bunch of spots and have 60+ guys play and minimal folks on the Thursday injury list next week.

Dev11
08-29-2013, 11:44 AM
In my mind, this warrants a new thread because it's about as important as going to a bowl game, but per a picture of the field that Duke Football just put up on Facebook, THE IRON D LOGO HAS BEEN PAINTED AT THE 50 YARD LINE!!

I saw it on my phone, can't post a link from Facebook at the office, so sorry, you'll just have to look it up/take my word for it.

devildeac
08-29-2013, 01:21 PM
In my mind, this warrants a new thread because it's about as important as going to a bowl game, but per a picture of the field that Duke Football just put up on Facebook, THE IRON D LOGO HAS BEEN PAINTED AT THE 50 YARD LINE!!

I saw it on my phone, can't post a link from Facebook at the office, so sorry, you'll just have to look it up/take my word for it.

I couldn't link/copy/"steal" the photo but click on the link, go to page 2 of the thread and post #35:

http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4869&start=20

Or, send a PM to CameronBornAndBred and he might post the photo again. Or, he might even read this thread and post it without asking;).

Acymetric
08-30-2013, 06:21 PM
In my mind, this warrants a new thread because it's about as important as going to a bowl game, but per a picture of the field that Duke Football just put up on Facebook, THE IRON D LOGO HAS BEEN PAINTED AT THE 50 YARD LINE!!

I saw it on my phone, can't post a link from Facebook at the office, so sorry, you'll just have to look it up/take my word for it.

Personally I think this should be its own thread as well, something a lot of people have been asking for for a long time. Very exciting, but I refuse to look at any pictures. Want to be surprised in person!

ForkFondler
08-30-2013, 09:05 PM
I couldn't link/copy/"steal" the photo but click on the link, go to page 2 of the thread and post #35:

http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4869&start=20

Or, send a PM to CameronBornAndBred and he might post the photo again. Or, he might even read this thread and post it without asking;).

The finished product:

3570

Kimist
08-30-2013, 09:24 PM
This is the game uniform (with white pants) for the upcoming game with NCCU.

dukeofcalabash
08-30-2013, 09:36 PM
This is the game uniform (with white pants) for the upcoming game with NCCU.

Now that's a uniform ...... throw out all of those black ones ....... this is one to keep! :)

TruBlu
08-31-2013, 05:56 AM
This is the game uniform (with white pants) for the upcoming game with NCCU.

The uniform looks great. Excited to see the midfield logo - hope we cross it numerous times today so that it gets national tv coverage.

(But I sure hope #11 wears some sunblock for the afternoon game. He must have spent the entire preseason in the weight room and indoor practice facility.)

loran16
08-31-2013, 12:25 PM
This is the game uniform (with white pants) for the upcoming game with NCCU.

Wish we were wearing the white helmets since the blue doesn't match but still miles better than bfbs

DukieInKansas
08-31-2013, 01:28 PM
The finished product:

3570

That is beautiful! I won't be there in person but will definitely be there in spirit! Let's go, Duke!

Football season is here and I have renewed my Iron Dukes membership.

OldPhiKap
08-31-2013, 02:01 PM
Two hours to kickoff!! Woot!

riverside6
08-31-2013, 04:14 PM
You can check out live stats and play analysis for Duke/NCCU here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/FB_ViewHDGame.asp?hGame=2878

loran16
08-31-2013, 04:15 PM
Awful first drive. Why is juwan in as primary back and why are they going screen heavy against central?! And no sign of the new read offense so far....

Duvall
08-31-2013, 05:06 PM
Awful first drive. Why is juwan in as primary back and why are they going screen heavy against central?! And no sign of the new read offense so far....

NOTE: With 10:00 to go in the first half, the score would be Duke 21, NCCU 0.

Mabdul Doobakus
08-31-2013, 05:14 PM
Duke MAYBE gets away with one after a completely unforced fumble by Anthony Nash was returned for a TD by NCCU. The play was overturned on review.

On a separate note, I think the Bull City Gridiron Classic deserves a name more befitting it's status. Bull City Football Game might be more appropriate.

ChillinDuke
08-31-2013, 05:23 PM
With the first half waning, can anyone comment on the defense? I'm struggling to follow on Gamecast on my phone. But it looks like they are pitching a shutout, and a strong one at that.

Yes? No?

- Chillin

matt1
08-31-2013, 05:29 PM
With the first half waning, can anyone comment on the defense? I'm struggling to follow on Gamecast on my phone. But it looks like they are pitching a shutout, and a strong one at that.

Yes? No?

- Chillin

Yes, until the last drive, where Central took it down the field and missed an FG. Overall, though, they have been playing very well.

Indoor66
08-31-2013, 05:31 PM
The game is available on ESPN3. 28 - 0 at halftime.

Mabdul Doobakus
08-31-2013, 05:31 PM
Defense has been solid, but obviously NCCU is terrible. It's pretty hard to draw any conclusions regarding the defense from this game.

ChillinDuke
08-31-2013, 05:35 PM
Defense has been solid, but obviously NCCU is terrible. It's pretty hard to draw any conclusions regarding the defense from this game.

Agreed. But for whatever it's worth this game was 27-10 last year at the half. Just sayin'.

- Chillin

loran16
08-31-2013, 05:39 PM
O looks the same as last year - no sign of a new o though new faces are getting looks.

Jeremy cash looks like a beast on d tho

OldPhiKap
08-31-2013, 07:21 PM
Hart to be unhappy with that effort and result. Very nice.

Mabdul Doobakus
08-31-2013, 07:44 PM
Apparently that's the first shutout by Duke since 1989.

CDu
08-31-2013, 08:15 PM
O looks the same as last year - no sign of a new o though new faces are getting looks.

Jeremy cash looks like a beast on d tho

It is NCCU. You don't open the play book against a team you can beat by 50. You play as vanilla as possible and save the good stuff for better teams. This is season opener 101 stuff.

OldPhiKap
08-31-2013, 08:47 PM
Not sure how anyone could look at that game and conclude the offense was the same. Good running game, balanced play, read option QB who can run.

If you look at a 45-0 game as a negative, well -- can't help 'ya. Only two punts all day. I would say that Roper called a damn good game. All without, as CDu notes, having to run any trick plays.

Newton_14
08-31-2013, 10:03 PM
A lot of positives today. I was proud of the defense Brown was laying some killer hits out there as well. Competition aside, Duke looked good in all areas today. Boone ran the offense really well, Crowder was a star, defensive line played outstanding. Crowd stunk, but whats new about that.
Anxious to see how well the defense can perform against better competition. I like our receivers as well. Braxton and McCaffrey compliment Crowder well, and I think Blakeney can be really good.
Great performance, and they won the game in the fashion they should have which is good as well. Getting a shutout was a nice bonus. Great food at tailgate with CB&B, DevilDeac and the gang. Devil In The Blue Dress was looking nice in her all white. :) Great atmosphere. If you missed it, be sure to catch it next time.

On the hoops side, I spoke with Rasheed just before the half, hanging out with Matt Jones, then at halftime, they were joined by Jabari, Amile, Rodney Hood, and Semi. Jabari is one big dude. Really big in his chest and shoulders. That was my first time seeing him in person, and was sorta surprised.

devildeac
09-01-2013, 12:06 AM
Apparently that's the first shutout by Duke since 1989.

Heh-heh. Yep. The old ball coach and his crew pitched that one a few miles south on 15-501:D.

devildeac
09-01-2013, 12:08 AM
Not sure how anyone could look at that game and conclude the offense was the same. Good running game, balanced play, read option QB who can run.

If you look at a 45-0 game as a negative, well -- can't help 'ya. Only two punts all day. I would say that Roper called a damn good game. All without, as CDu notes, having to run any trick plays.

And one of those punts Monday dropped inside the 10 and gave it enough air that one of our guys covered at the 2 after the bounce. That was a sweet special teams play.

OldPhiKap
09-01-2013, 12:13 AM
And one of those punts Monday dropped inside the 10 and gave it enough air that one of our guys covered at the 2 after the bounce. That was a sweet special teams play.

Special teams were outstanding in all phases.

devildeac
09-01-2013, 12:15 AM
Special teams were outstanding in all phases.

Except for that first FGA:o.

OldPhiKap
09-01-2013, 12:20 AM
Except for that first FGA:o.

Yeah, and first kick-off (OB). I guess the better way to say it is that after kicking off the rust, they played very well. Great punt return, excellent kick coverage, all PATs clean.

Wander
09-01-2013, 12:39 AM
Nice. I still have split feelings on the red zone QB thing, but it looks like that's here to stay. Crowder is awesome.

Also, nice work Clemson.

Bob Green
09-01-2013, 08:00 AM
On Blakeney's touchdown reception, Johnell Barnes executed a solid block which cleared a path to the end zone. Breon Borders intercepted a pass on the game's final play. Those are two examples of true freshmen impacting the game.

Kelby Brown was our leading tackler -- no surprise, and Jeremy Cash lived up to the hype. Anthony Boone looked smooth and Jamison Crowder is a star. All four running backs ran strong.

A great start for sure so now we need to go to Memphis and do it again.

MartyClark
09-01-2013, 08:19 AM
A lot of positives today. I was proud of the defense Brown was laying some killer hits out there as well. Competition aside, Duke looked good in all areas today. Boone ran the offense really well, Crowder was a star, defensive line played outstanding. Crowd stunk, but whats new about that.
Anxious to see how well the defense can perform against better competition. I like our receivers as well. Braxton and McCaffrey compliment Crowder well, and I think Blakeney can be really good.
Great performance, and they won the game in the fashion they should have which is good as well. Getting a shutout was a nice bonus. Great food at tailgate with CB&B, DevilDeac and the gang. Devil In The Blue Dress was looking nice in her all white. :) Great atmosphere. If you missed it, be sure to catch it next time.

On the hoops side, I spoke with Rasheed just before the half, hanging out with Matt Jones, then at halftime, they were joined by Jabari, Amile, Rodney Hood, and Semi. Jabari is one big dude. Really big in his chest and shoulders. That was my first time seeing him in person, and was sorta surprised.

Thanks for the summary. I saw your reference to McCaffrey, I assume that is Max. Is he starting on defense? Is he also playing special teams? I followed the kid through high school and am hoping he does well.

Bob Green
09-01-2013, 08:22 AM
Max McCaffrey is starting at wide receiver. He also split time with Jamison Crowder returning punts.

MartyClark
09-01-2013, 08:27 AM
Max McCaffrey is starting at wide receiver. He also split time with Jamison Crowder returning punts.

Thanks Bob. He and his brother Christian, headed to Stanford next year, racked up huge numbers in Colorado. How does one family get so much talent?

OldPhiKap
09-01-2013, 08:30 AM
Jim Sumner's front page article is excellent in both description and setting context. Worth reading twice.

wilko
09-01-2013, 09:36 AM
That was a fun game to watch on a beautiful if muggy day.
It was hard for me to tell if Duke was really THAT good or if Central was really THAT bad..

I saw a lot of good running and good decisions by Boone.. He ran the offense well past the jittery 1st series that resulted in a punt. Moved the ball but couldn't finish it off with a score. Missed kick is hardly his fault,

Good to see Brandon Connette getting significant reps in the 2nd half running AND passing as QB and not a situational option. It was good to see. Having him be confident in 2 modes of attack can only spell good things and keep opposing D's guessing.

Bottom line, Duke did what Duke was supposed to do to Central. Thats a good sign as Duke has had issues with that in the past. Cautiously optimistic about the next few games. Hope the confidence rolls...

moonpie23
09-01-2013, 09:48 AM
let's not forget the past so quickly.....a win is a win and we should enjoy it.....

i'm humble.......cautiously optimistic, but humble....

sagegrouse
09-01-2013, 10:05 AM
Thanks Bob. He and his brother Christian, headed to Stanford next year, racked up huge numbers in Colorado. How does one family get so much talent?

I know your question was rhetorical, but it feels good to recite the genealogy.

It helps a lot if your maternal grandfather is Duke great Dave Sime, who once set six world track records in a three-week period, and your Dad played a 13 years as a wide receiver in the NFL. Not to mention Uncle Billy, who won a ring on the 1991 Duke basketball team.

sagegrouse

jimsumner
09-01-2013, 12:02 PM
I know your question was rhetorical, but it feels good to recite the genealogy.

It helps a lot if your maternal grandfather is Duke great Dave Sime, who once set six world track records in a three-week period, and your Dad played a 13 years as a wide receiver in the NFL. Not to mention Uncle Billy, who won a ring on the 1991 Duke basketball team.

sagegrouse

Max told me that Duke was one of the few schools to recruit him as a wide receiver. Most wanted him to play safety.

That's one of the reasons he's playing for the Stanford of the East not the Duke of the West.

PDDuke85
09-01-2013, 06:03 PM
let's not forget the past so quickly.....a win is a win and we should enjoy it.....

i'm humble.......cautiously optimistic, but humble....

The team, the band, the tailgate, the press box side of Wallace Wade all seemed to be in mid season form. But the reality seemed to me that this was a nice, controlled scrimmage in front of 22,500 people. Is there really a Bull City Classic? Did the faithful of Durham flock to WW for this"classic?" In the future, is there really any benefit, aside from a guaranteed win, to continue this "classic?"

I'm not advocating that Duke opens with the likes of Alabama or Stanford, but I wonder aloud if this team, as it continues to resurrect from the dead, would be better off not continuing to play NCCU? If looking to schedule a win, how about it not come at the expense of our neighbors?

Bring on Memphis.

Indoor66
09-01-2013, 06:11 PM
The team, the band, the tailgate, the press box side of Wallace Wade all seemed to be in mid season form. But the reality seemed to me that this was a nice, controlled scrimmage in front of 22,500 people. Is there really a Bull City Classic? Did the faithful of Durham flock to WW for this"classic?" In the future, is there really any benefit, aside from a guaranteed win, to continue this "classic?"

I'm not advocating that Duke opens with the likes of Alabama or Stanford, but I wonder aloud if this team, as it continues to resurrect from the dead, would be better off not continuing to play NCCU? If looking to schedule a win, how about it not come at the expense of our neighbors?

Bring on Memphis.

On the other hand, what is wrong with playing NCCU and having a game day situation that is much more than a scrimmage to open the season? IMO this will help the team - give it confidence. I see benefit to continuing the series - at least until Duke is a BCS power.

PDDuke85
09-01-2013, 06:23 PM
On the other hand, what is wrong with playing NCCU and having a game day situation that is much more than a scrimmage to open the season? IMO this will help the team - give it confidence. I see benefit to continuing the series - at least until Duke is a BCS power.

I hear you, I really do. I want Duke to beat the snot out of everyone on the schedule. I'm just having a difficult time wrapping my arms around the whole good for Durham thing as we invite NCCU to WW as the sacrificial lamb. I would rather we invite another team to feast on besides our neighbor. My thoughts could also be construed as we're better than they are and they aren't worthy of the invite which is far from the truth.

devildeac
09-01-2013, 06:30 PM
I hear you, I really do. I want Duke to beat the snot out of everyone on the schedule. I'm just having a difficult time wrapping my arms around the whole good for Durham thing as we invite NCCU to WW as the sacrificial lamb. I would rather we invite another team to feast on besides our neighbor. My thoughts could also be construed as we're better than they are and they aren't worthy of the invite which is far from the truth.

I dunno, we could always invite Richmond back to WW;):rolleyes:.

PDDuke85
09-01-2013, 06:34 PM
I dunno, we could always invite Richmond back to WW;):rolleyes:.

I think the time is now for some Richmond payback!

ChillinDuke
09-01-2013, 06:47 PM
I hear you, I really do. I want Duke to beat the snot out of everyone on the schedule. I'm just having a difficult time wrapping my arms around the whole good for Durham thing as we invite NCCU to WW as the sacrificial lamb. I would rather we invite another team to feast on besides our neighbor. My thoughts could also be construed as we're better than they are and they aren't worthy of the invite which is far from the truth.

I see both sides on this one.

Maybe a doubleheader? Could help put some more butts in the seats? Maybe not all that reasonable though?

- Chillin

Des Esseintes
09-01-2013, 06:48 PM
I hear you, I really do. I want Duke to beat the snot out of everyone on the schedule. I'm just having a difficult time wrapping my arms around the whole good for Durham thing as we invite NCCU to WW as the sacrificial lamb. I would rather we invite another team to feast on besides our neighbor. My thoughts could also be construed as we're better than they are and they aren't worthy of the invite which is far from the truth.

I could easily be wrong, but I'd guess this is a good deal for Central. I assume they get paid to appear as a more-or-less guaranteed L, but they barely have to travel to do so. Easy on the team, a nice thing for fans, etc. If you're going to be a sacrificial lamb for money, probably best to do so in the most convenient and friendly situation possible.

Wander
09-01-2013, 06:51 PM
I hear you, I really do. I want Duke to beat the snot out of everyone on the schedule. I'm just having a difficult time wrapping my arms around the whole good for Durham thing as we invite NCCU to WW as the sacrificial lamb. I would rather we invite another team to feast on besides our neighbor. My thoughts could also be construed as we're better than they are and they aren't worthy of the invite which is far from the truth.

I'd rather just have the NCAA put a ban altogether on 1-A vs 1-AA teams. Or allow it to happen as an NFL-style preseason exhibition game that doesn't count as part of the regular season (similar to college basketball). But, as long as it exists, NCCU makes sense. And if you're worried about respecting our neighbors, it's probably the best case for them as they their teams/fans don't need to travel.

roywhite
09-01-2013, 07:07 PM
I'd rather just have the NCAA put a ban altogether on 1-A vs 1-AA teams. Or allow it to happen as an NFL-style preseason exhibition game that doesn't count as part of the regular season (similar to college basketball). But, as long as it exists, NCCU makes sense. And if you're worried about respecting our neighbors, it's probably the best case for them as they their teams/fans don't need to travel.

Rule out competition that includes an occasional classic like Appalachian State over Michigan? Or just this past weekend, North Dakota State over Kansas State.

Some of the games are competitive; some are not, but I don't see the case for banning the matchups.

Wander
09-01-2013, 07:30 PM
Rule out competition that includes an occasional classic like Appalachian State over Michigan? Or just this past weekend, North Dakota State over Kansas State.

Some of the games are competitive; some are not, but I don't see the case for banning the matchups.

I know. I agree they can be fun. But college football has the shortest season of any major sport. The NFL has 16 games to decide who are the best 12 out of 32 (37.5%) teams are. College ball has 12 games each to decide who the best 2 out of 120 (1.7%) teams are. Even the upcoming 4 team playoff requires college football do much more effective selection with significantly less information - if we're going to try to make intelligent decisions about who belongs in the playoff (which is probably impossible with anything less than like 12 playoff spots), we need every piece of information we can get, and too often the 1A vs 1AA games don't provide us with anything meaningful.

jimsumner
09-01-2013, 07:34 PM
I'd rather just have the NCAA put a ban altogether on 1-A vs 1-AA teams. Or allow it to happen as an NFL-style preseason exhibition game that doesn't count as part of the regular season (similar to college basketball). But, as long as it exists, NCCU makes sense. And if you're worried about respecting our neighbors, it's probably the best case for them as they their teams/fans don't need to travel.

But it's not really similar to college basketball. Hoops doesn't divide Division 1 into two groups; football does. NCCU is a Division-1 football program. And basketball program. When an ACC school plays a MEAC school in basketball, it is not an exhibition. It's a real game. The exhibition games are against D-II teams. No FBS team schedules D-II teams in football.

And Eastern Washington and North Dakota State are FCS schools. So, there's that.

Look at it this way. If the whole scenario was so unfair to FCS teams, you wouldn't be able to find FCS (1-AA) teams willing to play FBS (1-A) teams. But there is no shortage. So, they must feel they are benefitting.

dpslaw
09-01-2013, 08:24 PM
I thing this would be a fine cross-town series if a few more NCCU folks actually crossed town.

Reilly
09-01-2013, 08:42 PM
... No FBS team schedules D-II teams in football...

Very unusual for it to happen ... apparently a smattering over the years ...

http://www.footballgeography.com/history-of-fbs-i-a-vs-ncaa-division-iiiii-naia/

Wander
09-01-2013, 09:08 PM
But it's not really similar to college basketball. Hoops doesn't divide Division 1 into two groups; football does. NCCU is a Division-1 football program. And basketball program. When an ACC school plays a MEAC school in basketball, it is not an exhibition. It's a real game. The exhibition games are against D-II teams. No FBS team schedules D-II teams in football.

And Eastern Washington and North Dakota State are FCS schools. So, there's that.

Look at it this way. If the whole scenario was so unfair to FCS teams, you wouldn't be able to find FCS (1-AA) teams willing to play FBS (1-A) teams. But there is no shortage. So, they must feel they are benefitting.


FBS schools do occasionally play D-II teams, and D-I basketball teams do occasionally play non D-I teams not in the preseason and can be punished for losses in them. But putting those technicalities aside, 1-A and 1-AA are different divisions by the spirit of the law if not the letter. They play in two separate postseasons. Which is why I'd argue the games should be exhibitions. Maybe I'd feel differently if college football had 20 games instead of 12, 40 teams instead of 120, or a 16 team playoff instead of 2-4. But I just don't think we should waste games (I recognize sometimes the games are good, but 90% aren't) when we're talking about a sport with such a short season and such an absurdly tiny percentage of teams that make the playoff.

I don't think the system is unfair to FCS teams.

sagegrouse
09-01-2013, 09:44 PM
But it's not really similar to college basketball. Hoops doesn't divide Division 1 into two groups; football does. NCCU is a Division-1 football program. And basketball program. When an ACC school plays a MEAC school in basketball, it is not an exhibition. It's a real game. The exhibition games are against D-II teams. No FBS team schedules D-II teams in football.

And Eastern Washington and North Dakota State are FCS schools. So, there's that.

Look at it this way. If the whole scenario was so unfair to FCS teams, you wouldn't be able to find FCS (1-AA) teams willing to play FBS (1-A) teams. But there is no shortage. So, they must feel they are benefitting.

This is about dollars, right? Any FCS team should make more money playing a BCS conference team than another FCS team. And teams willing to go on the road (across town?) for the first game may get a little extra.

sagegrouse

jimsumner
09-01-2013, 10:51 PM
This is about dollars, right? Any FCS team should make more money playing a BCS conference team than another FCS team. And teams willing to go on the road (across town?) for the first game may get a little extra.

sagegrouse

Sure, money plays a big role. Lots of stadium upgrades have been funded by hopeless causes.

But there are other advantages for an FCS team. You've got nothing to lose from a W/L perspective because you're expected to lose. And there's always a chance you can be the next App. State. You can use it on the recruiting trail, telling prospective recruits who are being ignored by the big boys that they can play at Michigan or Alabama or Oklahoma. You can reward your biggest donors with a trip to the big time. If you survive, then the rest of your schedule looks a lot slower and a lot smaller than those power-conference guys.

There also are risks. If you're Nicholls State and you get your head handed to you on a Nike-Green Oregon platter, it can spiral downhill in a hurry. But, it's obviously a risk that FCS schools are more than willing to take.

I think we may be taking the wrong lessons from Duke's dominating win. Central is a decent FCS school, not great but a team with a reasonable expectation of posting a winning record in the MEAC. We all know about three losses to Richmond. But compare 45-0 to 31-7 over James Madison, 41-27 over Elon, pre-Cut games like 40-14 over VMI, 28-10 over the Citadel, 24-10 over Western Carolina and maybe we shouldn't take 45-0 for granted. We've all seen Duke struggle against teams from this level. Duke didn't struggle last night. Maybe, we should view that as a positive.

uh_no
09-01-2013, 11:32 PM
On the other hand, what is wrong with playing NCCU and having a game day situation that is much more than a scrimmage to open the season? IMO this will help the team - give it confidence. I see benefit to continuing the series - at least until Duke is a BCS power.

not to mention, I gotta imagine it's cool for the NCCU players to play on that stage every once in a while. Yeah getting beat sucks, but how often do they play in stadia with 25 thousand people in it? I'd imagine it's fun for their band to play a halftime show in front of a pretty big crowd too.

wilko
09-02-2013, 12:27 AM
Duke didn't struggle last night. Maybe, we should view that as a positive.

NO way to look at that as anything BUT a positive.
In years past that call for fumble return for a TD would NOT go our way and the wheels would have completely fallen of the wagon at that point.

I was there Sat. I thought the turnout was OK.
More of what we saw Gameday will absolutely put more people in the stands. Its more fun to go to a game when the outcome is in doubt, the team has a chance to compete and you can watch action instead of cringing and cussing at the outcome.

I'm a jaded dude. I've seen this movie before. In years past - I would get a little bit of hope and then get my feelings hurt. Have some hope, and get my spirits dashed. Its a cycle that I had gotten used to for football.... hard to invest the energy when you know the pain is coming. I dont blame people for not showing up en masse till they have a reason. An exciting team to watch is a good reason.

I liked a lot of things. Boone, Conette, Crowder, Powell, Duncan, Cash, Cockrell... lots of dudes made good plays.
The team showed good focus and preparation. Cut came over and gave Conette a pep-talk/congratulations of sorts after his TD pass. At NO POINT during the game did I get the "oh no, here it comes:... feeling of the inevitable that doom was around the corner. Duke did what they were supposed to do and that IS a big deal.

If they felt it, it was not evidenced in the play or the crowd. It was a very matter of fact lets do the job we came to do feeling. Thats what I picked up on... I'm glad to see the change. I think this team has the potential to be a very exciting one to watch. I am hoping we come out of the Memphis game healthy and riding a continued wave of confidence to carry into the GaTech game. That game will be a key indicator. I'd like to win it... but short of that... If we fight like heck and lose on the last play or if we get rolled - regardless of the outcome how well we play and respond will set the tone.

I'm getting interested again.. I'll have to go to another game or 3.

markbdevil
09-03-2013, 01:00 PM
I thing this would be a fine cross-town series if a few more NCCU folks actually crossed town.
Does TV determine the start times for games only on ESPN3? A 4 o'clock kick in late August is not a good idea. I've been going to games since the Mike McGee era, but I'm not going to Wally Wade and sit in 90 degree heat. I think the weather and Labor Day weekend had something to do with the small crowd.
Duke can't keep playing NCCU or schools on that level and expect to fill a larger stadium in 2014 or 2015. If TV does dictate starting times, then part of the stadium renovation should include covering the seating section like the Durham Bulls' Park.

Kimist
09-03-2013, 01:13 PM
Does TV determine the start times for games only on ESPN3? A 4 o'clock kick in late August is not a good idea. I've been going to games since the Mike McGee era, but I'm not going to Wally Wade and sit in 90 degree heat. I think the weather and Labor Day weekend had something to do with the small crowd.
Duke can't keep playing NCCU or schools on that level and expect to fill a larger stadium in 2014 or 2015. If TV does dictate starting times, then part of the stadium renovation should include covering the seating section like the Durham Bulls' Park.

I doubt if starting times for games have very much, if anything, to do with those games being shown on ESPN3.com, which is after all a web site that has numerous football games (some can also be viewed other than "live") available at the same time.

In olden days (before lights in Wally Wade) most games started in the noon to 2 pm time frame. Yes, September games could be....uncomfortable! The fact that this NCCU game had a late afternoon kickoff could be indicative of some consideration for the heat issue.

As for the attendance: Well, the opponent was NCCU and the Duke fan base in the Triangle area is historically small. Factor in that NC State had a home game, and the total size of the crowd last Saturday comes as no great surprise.

k

loran16
09-03-2013, 01:33 PM
Does TV determine the start times for games only on ESPN3? A 4 o'clock kick in late August is not a good idea. I've been going to games since the Mike McGee era, but I'm not going to Wally Wade and sit in 90 degree heat. I think the weather and Labor Day weekend had something to do with the small crowd.
Duke can't keep playing NCCU or schools on that level and expect to fill a larger stadium in 2014 or 2015. If TV does dictate starting times, then part of the stadium renovation should include covering the seating section like the Durham Bulls' Park.

Yes TV affects start time for games on ESPN3, but seriously, many hotter locations deal with starts at 1 (hotter than 4PM) quite frequently. This is not a Duke only problem.

uh_no
09-03-2013, 01:59 PM
I doubt if starting times for games have very much, if anything, to do with those games being shown on ESPN3.com

you'd be wrong, then.

The contracts with ESPN give ESPN the right to choose the start time....where they choose to broadcast the game (abc,espn,espn2,espnu,espn3,not at all) is completely up to them.

we play when they tell us to, and they pay a lot of money to tell schools when they can play.

jimsumner
09-03-2013, 02:06 PM
you'd be wrong, then.

The contracts with ESPN give ESPN the right to choose the start time....where they choose to broadcast the game (abc,espn,espn2,espnu,espn3,not at all) is completely up to them.

we play when they tell us to, and they pay a lot of money to tell schools when they can play.

Folks, college sports long ago made a Faustian bargain with TV. In exchange for boatloads of money, they saw "jump," colleges say "how high?"

There's a reason why we only have starting times for a few games into the season. The TV networks will determine the rest and the teams will show up when they are told to. And that includes the entire ESPN platform family. ESPN3 is a part of that.

BTW, have you talked to any State fans recently? They started their game Saturday at 12:30. So many people left early that Doeren called them out at his Monday presser.

loran16
09-03-2013, 02:18 PM
Folks, college sports long ago made a Faustian bargain with TV. In exchange for boatloads of money, they saw "jump," colleges say "how high?"

There's a reason why we only have starting times for a few games into the season. The TV networks will determine the rest and the teams will show up when they are told to. And that includes the entire ESPN platform family. ESPN3 is a part of that.

BTW, have you talked to any State fans recently? They started their game Saturday at 12:30. So many people left early that Doeren called them out at his Monday presser.

FWIW as a student, I loved Noon or 1 o clock start times. You get up, tailgate if you want, go to the game, and have the whole day ahead of you. 4PM games are the worst for that - Interrupts your day in the middle. At least night games make it so that you have a whole day to do things pre-game, and then you have fun after the game.

uh_no
09-03-2013, 03:12 PM
Folks, college sports long ago made a Faustian bargain with TV. In exchange for boatloads of money, they saw "jump," colleges say "how high?"

There's a reason why we only have starting times for a few games into the season. The TV networks will determine the rest and the teams will show up when they are told to. And that includes the entire ESPN platform family. ESPN3 is a part of that.

BTW, have you talked to any State fans recently? They started their game Saturday at 12:30. So many people left early that Doeren called them out at his Monday presser.

Perhaps if fans had giant air conditioners like they have behind the benches on the sidelines or they didn't charge $5 for a bottle of water....

Bob Green
09-03-2013, 03:17 PM
...or they didn't charge $5 for a bottle of water....

Free cups of water were available at around five or six different locations around the concourse on Saturday. They were small cups, probably eight ounces, but they were free and you could grab a couple of them.

CBDUKE
09-03-2013, 03:33 PM
And where I was sitting water was only $3 a bottle, or free as Bob said.

wilko
09-03-2013, 04:13 PM
Free cups of water were available at around five or six different locations around the concourse on Saturday. They were small cups, probably eight ounces, but they were free and you could grab a couple of them.

I sure did! and I used the "cool mister" device. Both were part of the heat management plan they referred to on the PA multiple times.

uh_no
09-03-2013, 05:30 PM
Free cups of water were available at around five or six different locations around the concourse on Saturday. They were small cups, probably eight ounces, but they were free and you could grab a couple of them.

it was too hot. I couldn't work up the energy to leave my seat :)

Newton_14
09-03-2013, 10:17 PM
Does TV determine the start times for games only on ESPN3? A 4 o'clock kick in late August is not a good idea. I've been going to games since the Mike McGee era, but I'm not going to Wally Wade and sit in 90 degree heat. I think the weather and Labor Day weekend had something to do with the small crowd.
Duke can't keep playing NCCU or schools on that level and expect to fill a larger stadium in 2014 or 2015. If TV does dictate starting times, then part of the stadium renovation should include covering the seating section like the Durham Bulls' Park.

I agree the combination of heat, and timeslot impacted the crowd. Luckily I had seats in Section 27 on the home side, so honestly the heat was not really that bad for those of us on that side. I have been on the other side many times though in heat like that, and it is brutal, so I felt for people on that side of the stadium. That said, I still feel like more people should show up.

I was really surprised too (for the 2nd year in a row) at the lack of Central fans in the stadium. I expected them to bring thousands of fans and it just did not happen this year or last.

Hopefully it will be cooler weather for the Ga Tech game cause that is a 3:30 kickoff. We need the place packed for that game.

Kimist
09-03-2013, 11:00 PM
you'd be wrong, then.

The contracts with ESPN give ESPN the right to choose the start time....where they choose to broadcast the game (abc,espn,espn2,espnu,espn3,not at all) is completely up to them.

we play when they tell us to, and they pay a lot of money to tell schools when they can play.

OK - I'll sit down and shut up.

Thanks for the clarification.

I still have a problem with "broadcast" on www.espn3.com when many of their games are available on demand, in addition to multiple "live" games.

What exactly do you think the starting time for the recent NCCU game might have been without those burdensome "restrictions" imposed by ESPN ??:confused:

But I'm quite certain that I now can find a better use of my time for a while without further involvement here.

k

OldPhiKap
09-03-2013, 11:26 PM
OK - I'll sit down and shut up.

Thanks for the clarification.

I still have a problem with "broadcast" on www.espn3.com when many of their games are available on demand, in addition to multiple "live" games.

What exactly do you think the starting time for the recent NCCU game might have been without those burdensome "restrictions" imposed by ESPN ??:confused:

But I'm quite certain that I now can find a better use of my time for a while without further involvement here.

k

I have the same questions myself, no reason to feel bad.

My guess is that ESPN also considers draws on its servers and competition with broadcast games in considering kickoff times. It is a whole platform strategy that does not make a lot of sense to me sitting on a couch. But I am sure it all leads back to $$$$$$$$$$.

gep
09-04-2013, 12:21 AM
I was really surprised too (for the 2nd year in a row) at the lack of Central fans in the stadium. I expected them to bring thousands of fans and it just did not happen this year or last.

.

Just curious (not familiar with the area)... Where does NCCU play their home games... and how many fans show up to their home games?

CameronBornAndBred
09-04-2013, 08:21 AM
I was really surprised too (for the 2nd year in a row) at the lack of Central fans in the stadium. I expected them to bring thousands of fans and it just did not happen this year or last.

To be fair to the NCCU fans, this is the third year we've played, and the third year that the margin of victory has increased. When history shows a blowout against your team, there isn't much incentive to go sit in the heat and watch it unfold. I bet if it were a night game, the crowd would have been larger....but not by much. (And the increased size would have been more Duke fans.)

budwom
09-04-2013, 10:48 AM
I have the same questions myself, no reason to feel bad.

My guess is that ESPN also considers draws on its servers and competition with broadcast games in considering kickoff times. It is a whole platform strategy that does not make a lot of sense to me sitting on a couch. But I am sure it all leads back to $$$$$$$$$$.

Yes, no reason to feel bad at all. I posed the same questions on another forum. The word seems to be that ESPN simply wants to clear the decks of ANY games competing with their
big draw games in the evening. While I can sort of understand this, the ratings of Duke vs NCCU on ESPN3 have to be absolutely miniscule...you probably couldn't even calculate any
ratings impact on their big games whatsoever, not even a teeny decimal point impact. It's too bad we couldn't apply to mighty ESPN for a waiver, noting the level of opponent
and distance of the sun to the stadium on August 31, something on the order of 26 miles or so. But that's not going to happen. So we're at their mercy.

So evidently they simply want nothing at all to compete with their TV juggernaut...and this touches on why some competitors accuse them of simply stockpiling games, so
that competitors can't show them at attractive times. I think there's merit to the argument, but I suppose some would think that's OK, and others wouldn't. No need to
get into that thicket.

uh_no
09-04-2013, 11:03 AM
What exactly do you think the starting time for the recent NCCU game might have been without those burdensome "restrictions" imposed by ESPN ??:confused:


probably 7. Cut has expressed a preference to the evening games, especially for these early season games. It's great for the students (go to the game then go out), great for the fans (tailgate all afternoon, then a cool temp at game time), great for the players

and nightime in WW is just really cool...the open side of the stadium so you can see lots of sky in this big bowl...when they shoot fireworks, it's like the ghost of wally wade hovers over the stadiun, and after UNC last year, good memories....

uh_no
09-04-2013, 11:06 AM
one thing I haven't seen mentioned: we used the quick snap several times throughout the game. at least once it resulted in a penalty, but I was hyped that we were trying to rush the snap when we noticed the defense was not set....that was something we didn't see a lot of with renfree, and I'd be excited if we saw more of (assuming we don't false start every time.....)

Newton_14
09-04-2013, 07:45 PM
Just curious (not familiar with the area)... Where does NCCU play their home games... and how many fans show up to their home games?

They play their home games on their campus in Durham. Not sure on crowd numbers but will check.

sagegrouse
09-04-2013, 08:03 PM
They play their home games on their campus in Durham. Not sure on crowd numbers but will check.

A little digging revealed the following: the opening home game last season played in front of 9,077. The next home game was against Hampton, and the attendance of 9,648 was described as a "near capacity crowd." Ergo, the NCCU on-campus stadium seats about 10,000.

sagegrouse

Reilly
09-04-2013, 08:23 PM
Central's stadium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Kelly–Riddick_Stadium

Newton_14
09-04-2013, 08:29 PM
A little digging revealed the following: the opening home game last season played in front of 9,077. The next home game was against Hampton, and the attendance of 9,648 was described as a "near capacity crowd." Ergo, the NCCU on-campus stadium seats about 10,000.

sagegrouse

Thanks Sage. That helps. So 9 or 10K folks when the game is a couple of miles across town. I would guess they brought 2 to 3K to Wally Wade.

gep
09-05-2013, 01:59 AM
Thanks, guys. DBR is amazing... so, 9K for NCCU home games... probably competitive games. Maybe can't expect half that much for road game at Duke, if it's an expected blowout based on prior years. Sage is "on" again...