Carolina Panthers 2013

[moonpie23]

taking the Fam down to BOA Litter Box tonight to begin the pre-season. It's located in the State of the Sinking Feeling....

I'll update later.....

[moonpie23]

here we go

[matt1]

Should we change this thread to a general 2013 NFL Season thread, so that we do not have 32 different threads popping up?

[moonpie23]

no....the state of the sinking feeling deserves it own thread.........

[brevity]

Should we change this thread to a general 2013 NFL Season thread, so that we do not have 32 different threads popping up?

Sorry, I count 35. You forgot "Tebow Watch '13," "Rex Ryan's Guide to Ladies' Feet" and "Inside Belichick's Hoodie." Well, 34, because no one's starting a Jaguars thread.

[DevilFalcon]

I think this is going to be another building and maturing year for the Panthers. No playoffs this year with 3 better teams in the division. Cam has got to mature and lead the team or there is no chance.

[moonpie23]

just fyi......the entire city of charlotte seemed to be wired to make OUR football experience as much fun as possible.......hotel staff, transportation, stadium, cops, everyone..........


this was just a pre-season game and the city was on IT's game.........i was impressed...


good thing the team won.....


my daughter made it on the jumbo torn with her face paint...

[davekay1971]

just fyi......the entire city of charlotte seemed to be wired to make OUR football experience as much fun as possible.......hotel staff, transportation, stadium, cops, everyone..........


this was just a pre-season game and the city was on IT's game.........i was impressed...


good thing the team won.....


my daughter made it on the jumbo torn with her face paint...

Don't look now, but the Panthers have won 4 in a row and are sitting one game out of the division lead at the halfway point. And, while the four wins aren't against world beaters, the Panthers are also sporting one of the best ppg differentials and one of the best ppg allowed in the league. The defense is very very good, and the offense has enough weapons to get the job done.

In short...the Panthers are a legitimately good team.

[moonpie23]

they are starting to believe in cam……..and the defense is VERY good….

[Highlander]

Don't look now, but the Panthers have won 4 in a row and are sitting one game out of the division lead at the halfway point. And, while the four wins aren't against world beaters, the Panthers are also sporting one of the best ppg differentials and one of the best ppg allowed in the league. The defense is very very good, and the offense has enough weapons to get the job done.

In short...the Panthers are a legitimately good team.

And the scary thing is that this team is one costly turnover and a 4th and 1 away from being 7-1. Lafell's fumble Sunday felt eerily like Deangelo's vs. Seattle, and that one ended up costing us the game when we were driving. Luckily this time we got a good bounce, scored a TD, and then had a pick 6 to put the game out of reach. Lose that fumble in the red zone and it could have been a very different outcome.

I like what this team is doing on offense lately, which is mixing it up and staying balanced. Defense is solid and is going to keep them in games, but it is nice to see them putting games away rather than having to sweat it out. I'm not sure there is a hotter team in the NFC right now than Carolina (with the exception of the Niners). With Seattle banged up and the Saints showing signs of weakness, the NFC South is now up for grabs.

Next week @ San Francisco will be a huge test. The Panthers need to be competitive against the league's elite. If they pull out a win it will turn heads, but a loss on the road to a top 2 team in the NFC is not the end of the world. Our defense is better than the Colts, and they ran all over SF, so this went from being a sure fire loss to a tossup in my mind.

[Highlander]

Next week @ San Francisco will be a huge test. The Panthers need to be competitive against the league's elite. If they pull out a win it will turn heads, but a loss on the road to a top 2 team in the NFC is not the end of the world. Our defense is better than the Colts, and they ran all over SF, so this went from being a sure fire loss to a tossup in my mind.

Anyone who had the Panthers at 7-3 following their 1-3 start, feel free to gloat now. Anyone? Anyone at all.

This has to be one of the most incredible regular season turnarounds ever. Going from 1-3 and left for dead to 7-3 with wins over the 49'ers and the Pats, the latter on MNF, is amazing. Now they are in great position for a Wild Card berth and the division is not out of reach.

The defense didn't play well last night, and I think they were exposed a bit. Brady showed the way to beat them is to dink and dunk all night long, and it very nearly worked if not for the third down heroics of Cam Newton. Man, that guy can scramble! The Patriots offense looked efficient and precise, like a well oiled machine. I was surprised that they got 6 ypc rushing the ball all night long, with most of those coming right up the middle. The only thing that tripped them up was a costly turnover in the red zone. Well, that and a PI call that was waived off.

As for that play, I think it would have definitely been PI on Kuechley if the ball had gotten there, and I can respect the argument that Gronk would have gotten there had Luke not interfered. It was pretty much the exact same scenario as the Buffalo game earlier this year, and Kuechley was flagged in that one. It was a dumb play to wrap him up like that, and he was incredibly lucky that the ball was underthrown. Personally I hate it when a penalty away from the ball impacts the game, and I think that there was no way Gronk would have caught the ball even if Luke had not gotten in the way.

I read a funny tweet where one fan wondered if Brady had been leg whipped whether it would have been deemed a no call.

Ultimately it doesn't matter. Panthers win, and are 7-3 and only a game behind New Orleans with two head to heads still to go. Dolphins are up next weekend, followed by the improving TB.

[moonpie23]

i was at the game last night…..the entire city was electrified….

[Highlander]

i was at the game last night…..the entire city was electrified….

Lucky guy. I tried to get tickets but the cheapest I could find was row 30 upper deck for around $150. Do you know what they were going for outside?

[tommy]

As for that play, I think it would have definitely been PI on Kuechley if the ball had gotten there, and I can respect the argument that Gronk would have gotten there had Luke not interfered. It was pretty much the exact same scenario as the Buffalo game earlier this year, and Kuechley was flagged in that one. It was a dumb play to wrap him up like that, and he was incredibly lucky that the ball was underthrown. Personally I hate it when a penalty away from the ball impacts the game, and I think that there was no way Gronk would have caught the ball even if Luke had not gotten in the way.


As opposed to pass interference, the catchability of the ball is irrelevant to the issue of Defensive Holding, which should have been the call, and would have been an obviously correct call under the rules.


Ultimately it doesn't matter. Panthers win, and are 7-3 and only a game behind New Orleans with two head to heads still to go. Dolphins are up next weekend

Coming off back to back huge wins, I forsee the young Panthers getting a little too full of themselves and looking past mediocre-but-in-the-hunt-anyway Miami. I say the Dolphins hang one on the Panthers.

[fuse]

i was at the game last night…..the entire city was electrified….

I've only been to one other NFL before last night. The game was incredible- I was lucky enough to be in the section behind the end zone uprights where the last play of the game happened. Was a great game!

[Highlander]

As opposed to pass interference, the catchability of the ball is irrelevant to the issue of Defensive Holding, which should have been the call, and would have been an obviously correct call under the rules.


My understanding is that once the ball is in the air, the choices are Pass Interference or no call. Defensive holding can only be called prior to the pass being released. So defensive holding wasn't an option as Kuechly's interference started after the pass was in the air.

The best explanation I heard of the "catchability" was that it has to be catchable in order to be interference. If it isn't catchable, you can do whatever you want because the contact is irrelevant. As to whether Gronk could have caught it had Kuechly not interfered, that's a referee's judgement call. As evidenced against that, 1) the ball was thrown at Gronk's feet, and 2) for him to catch it, he would have had to get through Kuechly and in front of the second back who picked off the pass. Even if Kuechly wasn't draped over him, he still had 2 guys and 5 yards between him and the ball. Brady's pass was well underthrown, and as a result Kuechly's interference did not materially impact the play based on the referee's view. It is a judgement call for sure, but if Brady hits Kuechly in the back with his pass then we're not having this discussion.

This reminds me a bit of the "tuck rule" debate which, ironically, went in NE's favor that time.

[tommy]

My understanding is that once the ball is in the air, the choices are Pass Interference or no call. Defensive holding can only be called prior to the pass being released. So defensive holding wasn't an option as Kuechly's interference started after the pass was in the air.

The best explanation I heard of the "catchability" was that it has to be catchable in order to be interference. If it isn't catchable, you can do whatever you want because the contact is irrelevant. As to whether Gronk could have caught it had Kuechly not interfered, that's a referee's judgement call. As evidenced against that, 1) the ball was thrown at Gronk's feet, and 2) for him to catch it, he would have had to get through Kuechly and in front of the second back who picked off the pass. Even if Kuechly wasn't draped over him, he still had 2 guys and 5 yards between him and the ball. Brady's pass was well underthrown, and as a result Kuechly's interference did not materially impact the play based on the referee's view. It is a judgement call for sure, but if Brady hits Kuechly in the back with his pass then we're not having this discussion.

This reminds me a bit of the "tuck rule" debate which, ironically, went in NE's favor that time.

Quoting what I found in the rulebook, it says this:

A defensive player may not tackle or hold an oppponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms, or body only:

a) To defend or protect himeslf against an obstucting opponent.
Exception: An eligible receiver is considered to be an obstructing opponent ONLY to a point five yards beyond the line of scrimmage unless the player who receives the snap clarly demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball. Within this five yard zone, a defensive player may chuck an eleigble player in front of him. A defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender. The defensive player cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an eligible receiver in a manner that restricts movement as the play develops. Beyond this five yard limitation, a defender may use his hands or arms ONLY to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver.

The last two sentences of the above are most relevant to the Patriots-Panthers situation. I don't see any reference to your contention that this rule is inapplicable once the ball is in the air.

[moonpie23]

there are so many "what if's" being played out here, let's go with one more…


say Luke DIDN'T impede Gronk……let's say Luke was off to the side, or actually backed up to NOT impede Gronk…. let's say Gronk slowed down, turned around and actually STARTED to make a play to come BACK to the ball…..


lester still intercepts…….

[Highlander]

Quoting what I found in the rulebook, it says this:

A defensive player may not tackle or hold an oppponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms, or body only:

a) To defend or protect himeslf against an obstucting opponent.
Exception: An eligible receiver is considered to be an obstructing opponent ONLY to a point five yards beyond the line of scrimmage unless the player who receives the snap clarly demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball. Within this five yard zone, a defensive player may chuck an eleigble player in front of him. A defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender. The defensive player cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an eligible receiver in a manner that restricts movement as the play develops. Beyond this five yard limitation, a defender may use his hands or arms ONLY to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver.

The last two sentences of the above are most relevant to the Patriots-Panthers situation. I don't see any reference to your contention that this rule is inapplicable once the ball is in the air.

This is the quote I was thinking of from the VP of NFL officiating, Dean Blandino.


According to NFL V.P. of officiating Dean Blandino, penalties other than interference no longer are available once the ball is thrown.

“Illegal contact or holding are fouls that can only occur before the pass is thrown,” Blandino told PFT. “Once the ball is in the air it is pass interference or nothing.”



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/19/blandino-once-ball-is-in-the-air-its-interference-or-nothing/

[davekay1971]

Well, apparently the Panthers are shocked and amazed that the Dolphins actually showed up.

Meanwhile the Tarcheats are hanging with Louisville into the 2nd half. It's early, but so far not a fun sports day!

[Olympic Fan]

For the second week in a row, Luke Kuechly benefits from a flag picked up in the end zone.

Late in the half, he's flagged for helmet-to-helmet contact on a receiver, knocking the ball loose. But the refs pick up the flag and the Dolphins have to kick a field goal.

[davekay1971]

For the second week in a row, Luke Kuechly benefits from a flag picked up in the end zone.

Late in the half, he's flagged for helmet-to-helmet contact on a receiver, knocking the ball loose. But the refs pick up the flag and the Dolphins have to kick a field goal.

He's the Tyler Hansbrough of the NFL...except less fluent in Swahili.

And speaking of the cheaters...ugh...Louisville...really?

[moonpie23]

another game where the cats found their footing in the 2nd half…. giving it back to the other team with under a min to play and the D holds up…


good game…

[moonpie23]

For the second week in a row, Luke Kuechly benefits from a flag picked up in the end zone.

Late in the half, he's flagged for helmet-to-helmet contact on a receiver, knocking the ball loose. But the refs pick up the flag and the Dolphins have to kick a field goal.

it looked like he got the forearm out enough to not get the flag…..or should i say, for the flag NOT to stand...

[davekay1971]

Not enough good words for the D. No points allowed in the 2nd half. Very strong. Gave Cam and the offense time and opportunity to find their mojo.

[Highlander]

Here's something I found interesting.

Duke Football:

Duke started unimpressively 2-2.
Duke Football lost on September 21st.
Duke went on to win 8 straight games.
Duke finally lost to the best team in their conference on 12/7.
Duke lost that game in convincing fashion on prime time TV, 45-7.
In that game Duke lost a player to a knee injury (Simmons) that turns out to be an MCL tear.

Panthers Football:

The Panthers started unimpressively at 1-3.
The Carolina Panthers lost on October 6th.
The Panthers went on to win 8 straight games.
The Panthers finally lost to the best team in their division on 12/8.
They lost that game in convincing fashion on prime time TV, 31-13
In that game the Panthers lost a player to a knee injury (Stewart) that looks to be an MCL tear.


I hadn't really noticed it at the time, but both teams had record winning streaks that happened almost in complete lock step to each other. As a fan of both, I certainly enjoyed the ride. Could it be that when Duke Football wins on Saturday, it bodes well for the Panthers? Or vice versa?

[Highlander]

One other thing - the blatant facemask penalty on Ginn during his runback I thought was incredibly poor form on the Saints. It was the equivalent of an intentional foul in Basketball. However it only cost the Saints 15 yards and saved 4 points on the scoreboard. Makes me think there should be more of a punishment on a play like that than just 15 yards. In soccer, the player would have been ejected for a similar foul. In Basketball, we'd get 2 free throws and the ball. But in Football, we only got 15 yards. Doesn't seem right.

[DUKIECB]

Really good football game yesterday. Obviously the defense was just spectacular. Luke Kuechly is as dominant as any linebacker I've seen in quite some time. The guy is a beast.

The offense on the other hand was anemic until the last drive. The Panthers did not convert a 3rd down for the ENTIRE game! It was the first game won by a NFL team this year without a 3rd down conversion. They simply have to improve in that department to make a run in the playoffs. But with that defense anything is possible and will give them a shot in most every game if the offense can just be average.

A win next week against the lowly Falcons and we secure the #2 seed and a first round bye. Who would have thunk it after the 1 -3 start to the season? Go Cats!

[Highlander]

Really good football game yesterday. Obviously the defense was just spectacular. Luke Kuechly is as dominant as any linebacker I've seen in quite some time. The guy is a beast.

The offense on the other hand was anemic until the last drive. The Panthers did not convert a 3rd down for the ENTIRE game! It was the first game won by a NFL team this year without a 3rd down conversion. They simply have to improve in that department to make a run in the playoffs. But with that defense anything is possible and will give them a shot in most every game if the offense can just be average.

A win next week against the lowly Falcons and we secure the #2 seed and a first round bye. Who would have thunk it after the 1 -3 start to the season? Go Cats!

Agreed. Our defense was outstanding for most of the game and only allowed NO one decent drive the entire game. Offense did nothing save for Deangelo's big run for 59 minutes, but did just enough to pull it out. I still don't think we look like a super bowl caliber team, but we've proven we can play with the top teams in the NFC having beaten two of them already.

Re: third down - we are one of the best teams in the NFL on third down, which was why it was so surprising to see us struggle. Part of the reason we have been so good is our ability to stay on schedule and get third and short repeatedly. Cam apparently had an ankle injury that prevented him from scrambling, and Smitty went out early with a knee injury, which really limited our offensive options.

I think it is critical for us to beat the Falcons and get a 1st round bye. Smitty and Stewart could both use the extra week of rest to hopefully be healthy enough to contribute. I like our chances on the road against a Dallas, but not so much against Chicago, Philly, or Green Bay.

[JNort]

Really good football game yesterday. Obviously the defense was just spectacular. Luke Kuechly is as dominant as any linebacker I've seen in quite some time. The guy is a beast.

The offense on the other hand was anemic until the last drive. The Panthers did not convert a 3rd down for the ENTIRE game! It was the first game won by a NFL team this year without a 3rd down conversion. They simply have to improve in that department to make a run in the playoffs. But with that defense anything is possible and will give them a shot in most every game if the offense can just be average.

A win next week against the lowly Falcons and we secure the #2 seed and a first round bye. Who would have thunk it after the 1 -3 start to the season? Go Cats!

Well if we win, Seattle loses, and SanFran wins we get the number one overall seed and Seattle falls to a 5 seed!

[weezie]

If I owned the Lions, I would have run out on the field and fired Schwartz tout de suite. And then I would have kicked him in the rear end.
Lions: the worst, worstest, most heinous team in the entire history of sports in the whole universe ever. Ever.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Here's something I found interesting.

Duke Football:

Duke started unimpressively 2-2.
Duke Football lost on September 21st.
Duke went on to win 8 straight games.
Duke finally lost to the best team in their conference on 12/7.
Duke lost that game in convincing fashion on prime time TV, 45-7.
In that game Duke lost a player to a knee injury (Simmons) that turns out to be an MCL tear.

Panthers Football:

The Panthers started unimpressively at 1-3.
The Carolina Panthers lost on October 6th.
The Panthers went on to win 8 straight games.
The Panthers finally lost to the best team in their division on 12/8.
They lost that game in convincing fashion on prime time TV, 31-13
In that game the Panthers lost a player to a knee injury (Stewart) that looks to be an MCL tear.


I hadn't really noticed it at the time, but both teams had record winning streaks that happened almost in complete lock step to each other. As a fan of both, I certainly enjoyed the ride. Could it be that when Duke Football wins on Saturday, it bodes well for the Panthers? Or vice versa?


Really good football game yesterday. Obviously the defense was just spectacular. Luke Kuechly is as dominant as any linebacker I've seen in quite some time. The guy is a beast.


Both teams have a beast Mike (Middle) linebacker who wears #59! Kelby Brown - WOW!

[moonpie23]

well, the cats get it done by a point…..the bye week will help….hopefully, they get smitty back AND he's good to go…


defense is looking stellar……cam is a work in progress….


go panthers...

[camion]

I find Cam to be frustrating to watch. He has tremendous physical gifts, but doesn't seem able to throw anything but heat.

[Dukehky]

I really didn't want to play the winner of Green Bay or San Fran... But you gotta pull for Green Bay here I think. It's really hard to beat a good team twice and their defense is atrocious, so if we put up some points, should be able to get a few stops against the GB offense.

Also, above poster, we don't question Cam Newton. He's the best player in the NFL. There aren't stats to back that up, but I don't need them because he is. If we ever lose a game, it's definitely on somebody other than Cam.

[Highlander]

Here's something I found interesting.

Duke Football:

Duke started unimpressively 2-2.
Duke Football lost on September 21st.
Duke went on to win 8 straight games.
Duke finally lost to the best team in their conference on 12/7.
Duke lost that game in convincing fashion on prime time TV, 45-7.
In that game Duke lost a player to a knee injury (Simmons) that turns out to be an MCL tear.

Panthers Football:

The Panthers started unimpressively at 1-3.
The Carolina Panthers lost on October 6th.
The Panthers went on to win 8 straight games.
The Panthers finally lost to the best team in their division on 12/8.
They lost that game in convincing fashion on prime time TV, 31-13
In that game the Panthers lost a player to a knee injury (Stewart) that looks to be an MCL tear.


I hadn't really noticed it at the time, but both teams had record winning streaks that happened almost in complete lock step to each other. As a fan of both, I certainly enjoyed the ride. Could it be that when Duke Football wins on Saturday, it bodes well for the Panthers? Or vice versa?

I hope the parallel analogy breaks this week. Otherwise, look for Carolina to play a near perfect half, but fall asleep in the second and let the Niners back into the game, surrendering the lead in the last 5 minutes on some late turnovers.

[Dukehky]

I hope the parallel analogy breaks this week. Otherwise, look for Carolina to play a near perfect half, but fall asleep in the second and let the Niners back into the game, surrendering the lead in the last 5 minutes on some late turnovers.

Key difference: The Panthers defense is awesome. Duke's, eh, we'll say there is room for vast improvement.

[mattman91]

Crickets

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Crickets

That's the sound Panthers fans make after a loss.

The most fairweather fans I've seen, except perhaps in Atlanta and Chapel Hill.

When the Panthers stink, they go back to being Dallas and Pittsburgh fans faster than you can say "Richardson".

[moonpie23]

well, i just got home from work……..so…here i is..


poorly played game……came out hitting hard, but 6 plays on the 1 and only 3 pts to show for it……that's the story…


first half - good smitty, 2nd half - bad smitty….(or just slow mitty). couple of tipped passes intercepted made cam's game look bad…

terrible play calling and riverboat ron not having them ready to play……


on to next year…….bur right now, GO BRONCOS

[Highlander]

Was out with my kids yesterday on a scouting overnighter and watched the game on tape delay. From what I saw...
- Officials were instrumental in SF's first touchdown. The first drive unnecessary roughness call on a tipped ball across the middle was a bit of a stretch IMO. Especially on a crucial third down. No issues with calling CAR for a head butt personal foul a few plays later; guess they are going to call it close. But if you're gonna call it close, you have to call it both ways. Boldon head butted it RIGHT IN FRONT of the official and there was no call. On 1st and Goal. A few plays later, refs miss an obvious 12 men in the huddle penalty. Carolina should have had the lead at halftime.
- I thought SF played very chippy the entire game, and it knocked us off ours. They were good at egging it on then flopping like they'd been shot when we retaliated, and they got a few calls that way. It is just amazing that as chippy as they played, we were the ones who kept getting penalized. At halftime Rivera said we needed to calm down, while Harbaugh said they needed to amp it up more. Obviously getting that from their coach.
- I didn't fault Rivera going for it on 4th and inches; we have gambled that way all season and odds were in our favor. I thought they should have tried ONE pass play down there at some point, but they forced a three and out then hit Smitty in single coverage, so they got the TD they should have anyway.

- Second half, I thought our 7 minute drive that ended with 2 sacks and a punt was killer. We had to at least get at least three there. Because of the length of the drives in the game, we only had 4 second half possessions. 3 and out, punt, interception, end of game.
- Speaking of Smitty, it was obvious to me he was hurting by the second half. I give him props for giving us a half; that was probably all he had in the tank. Without him, our offense is average at best, and we couldn't keep up with SF.

Panthers did much better this year than anyone expected, but going 12-4 and losing your first game in the playoffs at home is a tough way to go out.

Guess it could be worse. We could be the Cleveland Browns....

[hurleyfor3]

- Officials were instrumental in SF's first touchdown. The first drive unnecessary roughness call on a tipped ball across the middle was a bit of a stretch IMO. Especially on a crucial third down. No issues with calling CAR for a head butt personal foul a few plays later; guess they are going to call it close. But if you're gonna call it close, you have to call it both ways. Boldon head butted it RIGHT IN FRONT of the official and there was no call. On 1st and Goal. A few plays later, refs miss an obvious 12 men in the huddle penalty. Carolina should have had the lead at halftime.

Fine, dial it back to a field goal. 49ers still won it on the field in the second half, and it wasn't close.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Guess it could be worse. We could be the Cleveland Browns....

Good one! I guess I deserved that after my somewhat harsh, maybe even bitter, post.

The Panthers did indeed have a good season and they have alot to be excited about in the future.

My point was that Panther Fans don't know just how good they have it. A couple of underwhelming seasons and you'd think the Panthers never existed. In their 20 year history, they've reached 3 Championship Games and 1 SB. Browns Fans would KILL for that kind of success.

Living in the Carolinas, it's annoying to see Panthers Fans act like they are "Die-Hards" when the team is good, but then slink back to their former teams(i.e. Wash, Dallas, Pitt, etc.) the minute it's convenient. Just a personal pet-peave of mine.

[PSurprise]

From my perspective, growing up and living in NC for 33 years (and counting), I've always thought that the entire state is so much more focused on college basketball (for good reason) versus professional sports. It was very much the same with the Hurricanes a few years ago when they won the Stanley Cup. People's real loyalties in NC lie with schools, whether that be Duke, UNC, State, Wake, or even WCU and App. in the western part of the state.

Me, I am guilty of the Panthers bandwagon for a very good reason...I also root for the Redskins and Browns. I must say that if the Panthers were playing the Browns in the SB or Washington in the playoffs, I would and could not root for the kitties.

Of course, I would rather watch college sports (except baseball) versus professional sports. So I think it's just a matter of personal taste. And I might even argue that you get just as many fair-weather fans in college sports too.

[Highlander]

Fine, dial it back to a field goal. 49ers still won it on the field in the second half, and it wasn't close.

I never said they didn't. But those missed calls did mean the difference between Carolina leading 10-9 at halftime vs. trailing 13-10. And that's a BIG difference.

[Highlander]

Good one! I guess I deserved that after my somewhat harsh, maybe even bitter, post.

The Panthers did indeed have a good season and they have alot to be excited about in the future.

My point was that Panther Fans don't know just how good they have it. A couple of underwhelming seasons and you'd think the Panthers never existed. In their 20 year history, they've reached 3 Championship Games and 1 SB. Browns Fans would KILL for that kind of success.

Living in the Carolinas, it's annoying to see Panthers Fans act like they are "Die-Hards" when the team is good, but then slink back to their former teams(i.e. Wash, Dallas, Pitt, etc.) the minute it's convenient. Just a personal pet-peave of mine.

I'm from NC, and I've never had a secondary NFL team, so I win or lose with the Panthers. Prior to the Panthers joining the league I watched the Super Bowl, and that was it. I imagine most local NC'ers are the same way. The people with multiple teams are typically transplants IMO. NC had zero interest in NFL Football until the Panthers arrive.

Keep in mind that the Panthers have only had 5 winning seasons in 20 years, but they've had 10 where they were 7-9 or 8-8. Granted that's better than the Browns over that same era, but it's hardly setting the world on fire either. The last time we made the playoffs (in 2008) we were blown off our own field by the Cardinals. So if the fans have a backup team, it's not hard to see why. The Panthers only make the postseason once every 4-5 years. Meanwhile teams like the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, and Saints seem to go pretty much every year.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

I'm from NC, and I've never had a secondary NFL team, so I win or lose with the Panthers. Prior to the Panthers joining the league I watched the Super Bowl, and that was it. I imagine most local NC'ers are the same way. The people with multiple teams are typically transplants IMO. NC had zero interest in NFL Football until the Panthers arrive.
Keep in mind that the Panthers have only had 5 winning seasons in 20 years, but they've had 10 where they were 7-9 or 8-8. Granted that's better than the Browns over that same era, but it's hardly setting the world on fire either. The last time we made the playoffs (in 2008) we were blown off our own field by the Cardinals. So if the fans have a backup team, it's not hard to see why. The Panthers only make the postseason once every 4-5 years. Meanwhile teams like the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, and Saints seem to go pretty much every year.

All good and valid points with one exception:

Before the Panthers arrived, North Carolina was a HEAVY lean towards Washington.

They showed all of the Redskins games on TV as well as covered them with front-page articles in the newspaper. NC was definitely "Redskins Country". Dallas and Pittsburgh were the secondary teams, primarily due to the fact that they were also on TV alot and extremely successfull in the 70's - 90's.

I remember alot of Washington Fans being ticked-off that they were bumped for the Panthers. In-fact, early on it was thought that Carolina would be placed in the AFC to avoid conflict but, at the time, the NFC was so dominant, Jerry Richardson pushed hard for the Panthers to be put in the NFC(initially being placed in the West Division of all places).

Again, what I find annoying is that so many Panther fans are all or nothing. It's "OMG they're the best team ever and I follow them religiously" when they're competitive. When they're are "only" 7-9 or 8-8, a tumbleweed could blow through BOA Stadium and no one would notice.

I realize I'm stereotyping so I'm not being fair to all Panther Fans(such as yourself), but that's been my personal experience living in the area for the last 25 years.

[Trinity09]

I'm from NC, and I've never had a secondary NFL team, so I win or lose with the Panthers. Prior to the Panthers joining the league I watched the Super Bowl, and that was it. I imagine most local NC'ers are the same way. The people with multiple teams are typically transplants IMO. NC had zero interest in NFL Football until the Panthers arrive.

Keep in mind that the Panthers have only had 5 winning seasons in 20 years, but they've had 10 where they were 7-9 or 8-8. Granted that's better than the Browns over that same era, but it's hardly setting the world on fire either. The last time we made the playoffs (in 2008) we were blown off our own field by the Cardinals. So if the fans have a backup team, it's not hard to see why. The Panthers only make the postseason once every 4-5 years. Meanwhile teams like the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, and Saints seem to go pretty much every year.

+1

Because NC used to be so Redskins-centric, it's going to take a generation for Panthers fandom to take root. The Cats are still the new kids on the block in the NFL, but in 10 or so years our fan base should be just as "good" as any other long-standing franchise. Granted, I'm under 30 and was young and impressionable when the Panthers arrived, but the great majority of the folks I knew growing up, if they followed the NFL, were and are Panthers fans and only Panthers fans. No one had "backup" teams. Nowadays, you're starting to see second generation Panthers fans. Support for the team, independent of this year's playoff "run", is swelling by the year and will continue to grow as the the old guard of Redskins fans/non-NFL fans err...ceases to be.

[Olympic Fan]

+1

Because NC used to be so Redskins-centric, it's going to take a generation for Panthers fandom to take root. The Cats are still the new kids on the block in the NFL, but in 10 or so years our fan base should be just as "good" as any other long-standing franchise. Granted, I'm under 30 and was young and impressionable when the Panthers arrived, but the great majority of the folks I knew growing up, if they followed the NFL, were and are Panthers fans and only Panthers fans. No one had "backup" teams. Nowadays, you're starting to see second generation Panthers fans. Support for the team, independent of this year's playoff "run", is swelling by the year and will continue to grow as the the old guard of Redskins fans/non-NFL fans err...ceases to be.

Count me among the long-time North Carolina residents who have NEVER accepted the Panthers.

I did grow up as a Redskins fans -- since WWII, owner George Marshall courted North Carolina. Not only did we get force-fed the Redskins on TV, he used to stock his team with stars from the state -- from Norm Snead to Chris Hanburger to the great Sonny Jurgenson.

Then Charlotte gets an expansion team. It would have been very easy to put the Panthers in the AFC, which would have let us keep our weekly broadcasts of the Redskins, while the Panthers would be on the AFC's Network. But, no, they put Charlotte in the NFC, taking the Redskins away from us.

I've hated the Panthers ever since for robbing me of my team. In fact, I get more joy these days when the Panthers lose than when the Redskins win (since I rarely get to see the Skins these days, but the Panthers are constantly jammed in my face).

You are right Trinity, this is not going to be a Panthers state until my generation of Redskin fans fades away.

[Acymetric]

Count me among the long-time North Carolina residents who have NEVER accepted the Panthers.

I did grow up as a Redskins fans -- since WWII, owner George Marshall courted North Carolina. Not only did we get force-fed the Redskins on TV, he used to stock his team with stars from the state -- from Norm Snead to Chris Hanburger to the great Sonny Jurgenson.

Then Charlotte gets an expansion team. It would have been very easy to put the Panthers in the AFC, which would have let us keep our weekly broadcasts of the Redskins, while the Panthers would be on the AFC's Network. But, no, they put Charlotte in the NFC, taking the Redskins away from us.

I've hated the Panthers ever since for robbing me of my team. In fact, I get more joy these days when the Panthers lose than when the Redskins win (since I rarely get to see the Skins these days, but the Panthers are constantly jammed in my face).

You are right Trinity, this is not going to be a Panthers state until my generation of Redskin fans fades away.

I'm not so sure...I'm a Panthers fan and I think fans of either team would have gotten tired of 2/3 day games being Panthers and Skins. And for anyone that was a fan of neither it may be enough to keep you from moving here.

[Dukehky]

That's the sound Panthers fans make after a loss.

The most fairweather fans I've seen, except perhaps in Atlanta and Chapel Hill.

When the Panthers stink, they go back to being Dallas and Pittsburgh fans faster than you can say "Richardson".

Sorry I didn't come post on the Duke basketball board to mourn the loss of the Panthers, next loss, I'll post a full game analysis of my pain. THe one time I did post, was just because I happened to click the off topic tab and happened to see the thread.

I really hated how people made this a game between Cam and Kap. SF has BY FAR the most talented team in the league. They shouldn't have been the five seed. Kap does enough to win with all of his mighty weapons. Cam's best playmaker is a 35 year old crazy person. Lafell is terrible, Ginn is okay and the Panthers had a patchwork O-Line and one of the worst secondaries in the entire NFL on a player for player talent basis. And our running backs are average. This was an incredible season, but we got spanked in the 2nd half. Had some questionable officiating decisions made against the Cats in the first half, but you gotta overcome stuff like that, and SF is definitely the better team, but I would take Cam over Kap every day of the week.

We also don't need to pay Greg Hardy all the money he wants, because he doesn't show up against, or worse, can't beat good O-Lines.