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Olympic Fan
08-06-2013, 03:21 PM
Earlier today, Miykel Faulcon, who was a passenger in the car with Hairston at the notorious traffic stop in Durham, had his day in court and was found guilty of misdemeanor drug possession. He didn't get much of a sentence -- probation and 10 hours of community service.

In itself, no big news.

BUT ...

The verdict apparently outraged Faulcon's mother, Trudy Ransom, who couldn't understand why the charges against Hairston were dismissed, while her son was found guilty. She tweeted immediately after the verdict: The perp walks and the passenger gets probation?

A few minutes later, Trudy tweeted: I am spilling the beans. You haven't heard the last of this.

She later tweeted that she is calling Eric Prisbell, the USA Today reporter who had written on the incident, and giving him the real story.

Now, no telling what info she has -- or whether she will follow up on her threats -- but it is interesting .... just as it's interesting that Faulcon was convicted while the charges against Hairston were dropped. BTW: the case for the third guy in the car was continued ...

Mods: I hate to start a new thread, but the old Hairston thread was locked. If this belongs somewhere else, please move it.

wilko
08-06-2013, 03:26 PM
Tear down the wall... tear down the wall..

oldnavy
08-06-2013, 03:27 PM
Earlier today, Miykel Faulcon, who was a passenger in the car with Hairston at the notorious traffic stop in Durham, had his day in court and was found guilty of misdemeanor drug possession. He didn't get much of a sentence -- probation and 10 hours of community service.

In itself, no big news.

BUT ...

The verdict apparently outraged Faulcon's mother, Trudy Ransom, who couldn't understand why the charges against Hairston were dismissed, while her son was found guilty. She tweeted immediately after the verdict: The perp walks and the passenger gets probation?

A few minutes later, Trudy tweeted: I am spilling the beans. You haven't heard the last of this.

She later tweeted that she is calling Eric Prisbell, the USA Today reporter who had written on the incident, and giving him the real story.

Now, no telling what info she has -- or whether she will follow up on her threats -- but it is interesting .... just as it's interesting that Faulcon was convicted while the charges against Hairston were dropped. BTW: the case for the third guy in the car was continued ...

Mods: I hate to start a new thread, but the old Hairston thread was locked. If this belongs somewhere else, please move it.

Interesting. Not sure how this will help her son, but it seems she feels an injustice has been done. I wonder if her son has a record or if this was a first offense. It does seem strange that his charges weren't dismissed....

FerryFor50
08-06-2013, 03:45 PM
Interesting. Not sure how this will help her son, but it seems she feels an injustice has been done. I wonder if her son has a record or if this was a first offense. It does seem strange that his charges weren't dismissed....

Hey, more power to her. Fair's fair.

MChambers
08-06-2013, 04:35 PM
Mods: I hate to start a new thread, but the old Hairston thread was locked. If this belongs somewhere else, please move it.
The old thread was pretty well unraveled, so I think a new thread is appropriate (not that I'm a moderator).

PJ is doing a great job of keeping us entertained during the months when there are no Duke basketball games!

BD80
08-06-2013, 04:52 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm starting to feel sorry for ol' roy, dadgummit.

Knowing teenagers, I'd be willing to bet PJ told ol' roy that the weed wasn't his - and the dismissal of charges supported the story.

I know well the exasperation of trying to get to the full truth, not just the truth a kid calculates you will find out about. Experience in cross-examination as a trial attorney helps (and visa versa) but a kid that is afraid of the consequences can be a tough nut to crack.

If the weed was PJ's, where does that leave ol' roy?

OldPhiKap
08-06-2013, 05:01 PM
As best I can tell, a co-defendant's mom wants to "spill the beans" based on an exculpatory story her son told her. Hearsay from a tainted witness.

If the kid makes a statement himself, I would at least give it some potential cred. Still a tainted source, but at least a witness with some first hand knowledge.

But the kid's not gonna talk -- he is PJ's friend and hopes to be so down the road too.

hudlow
08-06-2013, 05:08 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm starting to feel sorry for ol' roy, dadgummit.

Knowing teenagers, I'd be willing to bet PJ told ol' roy that the weed wasn't his - and the dismissal of charges supported the story.

I know well the exasperation of trying to get to the full truth, not just the truth a kid calculates you will find out about. Experience in cross-examination as a trial attorney helps (and visa versa) but a kid that is afraid of the consequences can be a tough nut to crack.

If the weed was PJ's, where does that leave ol' roy?

Up the creek. He's considered one of the most elite coaches. Dealing with Prima Donna basketball players should be one of his greater strengths, shouldn't it???

allenmurray
08-06-2013, 05:13 PM
Mychal Faulcon does not play basketball for a nationally known school; P. J. Hairston does.

If you get in trouble with the law it is better to be a basketball player at UNC-Chapel Hill than at Elizabeth City State University.

sagegrouse
08-06-2013, 06:43 PM
Up the creek. He's considered one of the most elite coaches. Dealing with Prima Donna basketball players should be one of his greater strengths, shouldn't it???


Mychal Faulcon does not play basketball for a nationally known school; P. J. Hairston does.

If you get in trouble with the law it is better to be a basketball player at UNC-Chapel Hill than at Elizabeth City State University.

In a slow sports new season for DBR, PJ Hairston is truly the "gift that keeps on giving!" Now Trudy Ransom will truly add to the ledger.

sagegrouse

ForkFondler
08-06-2013, 06:58 PM
Responses to specific but unidentified previous posts:

Threadwise, what is raveled may become unraveled, and vice-versa.

The sins of Kentucky are visited on Cleveland State.

I rather doubt that Trudy knows any more than the rest of us -- no wonder she's pissed.

ncexnyc
08-06-2013, 07:12 PM
This is certainly an interesting turn of events. Having followed this closely on Pack Pride, I recall Ms. Ransom was offered the chance to do an interview by Laura Keeley. Ms. Ransom turned down the offer and from what I am reading in her tweets today, is that she thought her son would be treated the same as PJ, which is why she has kept her mouth shut.
It will be interesting to see if she actually accepts the current offer from Eric Prisbell to do an interview and if she does what will come out of it.

roywhite
08-06-2013, 07:18 PM
As best I can tell, a co-defendant's mom wants to "spill the beans" based on an exculpatory story her son told her. Hearsay from a tainted witness.

If the kid makes a statement himself, I would at least give it some potential cred. Still a tainted source, but at least a witness with some first hand knowledge.

But the kid's not gonna talk -- he is PJ's friend and hopes to be so down the road too.

Is Mom trying to influence the legal process and what she views as unequal treatment for her son?

Or is she frustrated and upset enough to tell the "whole story", details not specifically relevant to the proceedings, but very interesting to the NCAA and the general public?

If it's a broader narrative, I'll certainly tune in.

El_Diablo
08-06-2013, 07:33 PM
Perhaps, in return for getting his charges dropped, PJ proffered a voluntary statement regarding the drugs?

ncexnyc
08-06-2013, 07:43 PM
Perhaps, in return for getting his charges dropped, PJ proffered a voluntary statement regarding the drugs?
Are you implying RATZ on FATZ?

OldPhiKap
08-06-2013, 07:44 PM
Is Mom trying to influence the legal process and what she views as unequal treatment for her son?

Or is she frustrated and upset enough to tell the "whole story", details not specifically relevant to the proceedings, but very interesting to the NCAA and the general public?

If it's a broader narrative, I'll certainly tune in.

As will I.

My point is that there is a world of difference between the kid who was in the car talking, and the mom who only knows what her son told her talking. Of course her son said it wasn't him. Or she thinks her angel was led astray.

Don't get me wrong, I hope she comes out with hearsay to the effect that PJ was rolling a joint and loading a clip in the gun, while on the phone to Fats thanking him for three months of free car use. But all of that is rank hearsay in every literal and legal sense of the word. If she is really pissed, she will get her son to come out and give his first-hand version of what happened.

Or better yet, say her son is at NCAA headquarters giving a statement.

But yeah, Roy is in for another Maalox Masher or whatever Dickie V calls them.

Newton_14
08-06-2013, 07:56 PM
Hey, more power to her. Fair's fair.

I agree. She should be pissed. Her son took the rap for a UNC star, and got treated differently even though there was no more evidence on him than PJ. The driver is almost always held responsible for the vehicle and the contents in it. That the UNC lawyers got the charges dismissed on PJ (totally unfair, especially considering the gun) even though he was driving, and the passenger got a conviction is very telling on many levels.

I am interested to hear what the lady has to say. Agree with others that she has held her peace to this point expecting that her son would have his charges dropped as well.

roywhite
08-06-2013, 08:01 PM
Are you implying RATZ on FATZ?

Yep.

411 on Hairston Hijinks, Heels' Wheels Caper: Faulcon Grounded, Trudy Ticked, PJ Rats on Fats?, Huck Hot, Pack Pursues.

OldPhiKap
08-06-2013, 08:02 PM
Yep.

411 on Hairston Hijinks, Heels Wheels Caper: Faulcon Grounded, Trudy Ticked, PJ Rats on Fats?, Huck Hot, Pack Pursues.

Work a 4:20 in there and you have a Pulitzer!

MarkD83
08-06-2013, 09:05 PM
Mychal Faulcon does not play basketball for a nationally known school; P. J. Hairston does.

If you get in trouble with the law it is better to be a basketball player at UNC-Chapel Hill than at Elizabeth City State University.

Not that I think the NCAA would ever get involved, but the way this is phrased PJ received an improper benefit.

UrinalCake
08-06-2013, 10:33 PM
This is totally just me trying to piece together what might be happening, but it sounds like she has some information that she's been sitting on, and if the charges against her son had been dropped the way PJ's were, then she would have just kept it to herself. But because her son was treated more harshly (having to do community service plus being put on probation) now she's upset and willing to talk.

So what to make of this? First off, who is she upset at? Is it Hairston? Is it the judicial system? Is it UNC? Secondly, what type of information could she have? If it's some sort of activity that Hairson has been involved in (drugs, gun violence, etc.) then it is likely that her son was also involved, and it's unlikely she would "spill the beans" and implicate her son in the process. If it's NCAA-related, such as PJ having more cars rented for him than what we know about, then I guess that could make sense but I don't understand why she would wait until now to say something about it. Unless she were expecting some sort of "favor" to have her son's charges dropped, and that favor never came through. Who knows....

devildeac
08-06-2013, 10:52 PM
Work a 4:20 in there and you have a Pulitzer!

You mean one of these:

3523

Well, maybe not that 420:o...

ncexnyc
08-06-2013, 11:03 PM
This is totally just me trying to piece together what might be happening, but it sounds like she has some information that she's been sitting on, and if the charges against her son had been dropped the way PJ's were, then she would have just kept it to herself. But because her son was treated more harshly (having to do community service plus being put on probation) now she's upset and willing to talk.

So what to make of this? First off, who is she upset at? Is it Hairston? Is it the judicial system? Is it UNC? Secondly, what type of information could she have? If it's some sort of activity that Hairson has been involved in (drugs, gun violence, etc.) then it is likely that her son was also involved, and it's unlikely she would "spill the beans" and implicate her son in the process. If it's NCAA-related, such as PJ having more cars rented for him than what we know about, then I guess that could make sense but I don't understand why she would wait until now to say something about it. Unless she were expecting some sort of "favor" to have her son's charges dropped, and that favor never came through. Who knows....

You must have missed the, "Don't Snitch" campaign a few years back.

Reilly
08-06-2013, 11:09 PM
Yep.

411 on Hairston Hijinks, Heels' Wheels Caper: Faulcon Grounded, Trudy Ticked, PJ Rats on Fats?, Huck Hot, Pack Pursues.

... while DBR Delights

brevity
08-07-2013, 02:22 AM
But yeah, Roy is in for another Maalox Masher or whatever Dickie V calls them.

Diaper Dingy? Dizzy-to-drive-a-roo? THC-er, baby?

MCFinARL
08-07-2013, 09:29 AM
I agree. She should be pissed. Her son took the rap for a UNC star, and got treated differently even though there was no more evidence on him than PJ. The driver is almost always held responsible for the vehicle and the contents in it. That the UNC lawyers got the charges dismissed on PJ (totally unfair, especially considering the gun) even though he was driving, and the passenger got a conviction is very telling on many levels.

I am interested to hear what the lady has to say. Agree with others that she has held her peace to this point expecting that her son would have his charges dropped as well.

Generally, I agree with this post, except for the part about the gun. No one, including Faulcon, has ever been charged with anything related to the gun. Since the gun was found outside the car, and as far as we know the police a) did not see anyone throw the gun from the car, b) did not find any fingerprints or other evidence on the gun to link it to anyone in the car, there is no more reason to attribute ownership of the gun to PJ as driver than to anyone else in the car.

Gale1979
08-07-2013, 09:52 AM
When it was announced that PJ's charges were dropped, the article indicated he produced proof he had a driver's license and had completed a drug assessment program. I work at a nonprofit that partners with the court system in Durham to provide a venue for people doing court ordered community service. People often do that before going before the judge, rather than after. Being proactive can result in charges being dropped. It looks like Faulcon is being required to do community service - which means he didn't do it proactively. Just means Hairston got good advice - Faulcon did not.

budwom
08-07-2013, 11:40 AM
I can only conclude that your cops down there are busier and more jaded about the presence of guns than cops are where I live.
There's no way cops here would let the gun issue slide....it shouldn't be that hard to determine whose gun it was...

Olympic Fan
08-07-2013, 01:00 PM
I can only conclude that your cops down there are busier and more jaded about the presence of guns than cops are where I live.
There's no way cops here would let the gun issue slide....it shouldn't be that hard to determine whose gun it was...

I don't understand why people can't understand why there is not LEGAL issue with the gun.

(1) Without fingerprints or visually seeing the gun being thrown, there is no way to put it in that vehicle.

(2) And even if you could, so what? Under North Carolina's gun laws, there's nothing wrong with an 18-year-old possessing a gun. It doesn't have to be registered (Durham has gun registration, but that's just for Durham residents, not for people passing through).

The police checked the gun to see if it was stolen or had been used in a crime. When it came up negative in both counts, there was nothing left to pursue.

Sure, it looks bad for Hairston or one of his passengers to be packing a gun, but it was not illegal. So what are the police supposed to do?

UrinalCake
08-07-2013, 02:10 PM
I think the issue with the gun is that when it was present in conjunction with drugs and a rented car, that looks like they're dealings drugs. You are right that gun by itself wouldn't necessarily raise a red flag. And the fact that they threw it out of the car makes it look like they were hiding something - if they were just legally carrying a gun that didn't break any laws, why throw it?

I'm surprised the fact that Hairston tried to switch seats isn't a bigger issue. Seems like that should be a charge by itself, similar to attempting to evade a check point.

vick
08-07-2013, 02:17 PM
I think the issue with the gun is that when it was present in conjunction with drugs and a rented car, that looks like they're dealings drugs. You are right that gun by itself wouldn't necessarily raise a red flag. And the fact that they threw it out of the car makes it look like they were hiding something - if they were just legally carrying a gun that didn't break any laws, why throw it?

You may be on to something, but if we've learned anything this summer, isn't it that 'PJ Hairston does something foolish' doesn't necessarily require any additional explanation?

Ichabod Drain
08-07-2013, 02:44 PM
I think the issue with the gun is that when it was present in conjunction with drugs and a rented car, that looks like they're dealings drugs. You are right that gun by itself wouldn't necessarily raise a red flag. And the fact that they threw it out of the car makes it look like they were hiding something - if they were just legally carrying a gun that didn't break any laws, why throw it?

I'm surprised the fact that Hairston tried to switch seats isn't a bigger issue. Seems like that should be a charge by itself, similar to attempting to evade a check point.

I don't think it was ever confirmed the gun came from PJ's car.

But if it did (which it probably did), they most likely tossed it simply because they were scared and didn't know own their rights.

johnb
08-07-2013, 02:51 PM
I may be alone on this, but while I hope Carolina players lose (badly) against us, I don't particularly want them to lose their scholarships or go to jail. PJ sounds like he's made some dumb decisions in regards to accepting benefits, but I don't recall anyone accusing him of hurting anyone or breaking any serious laws (aside, potentially, from NCAA infractions).

DukieInKansas
08-07-2013, 04:48 PM
I don't understand why people can't understand why there is not LEGAL issue with the gun.

(1) Without fingerprints or visually seeing the gun being thrown, there is no way to put it in that vehicle.

(2) And even if you could, so what? Under North Carolina's gun laws, there's nothing wrong with an 18-year-old possessing a gun. It doesn't have to be registered (Durham has gun registration, but that's just for Durham residents, not for people passing through).

The police checked the gun to see if it was stolen or had been used in a crime. When it came up negative in both counts, there was nothing left to pursue.

Sure, it looks bad for Hairston or one of his passengers to be packing a gun, but it was not illegal. So what are the police supposed to do?

I wonder what has happened to the gun? Do the police still have it or did one of the three claim it?

TruBlu
08-07-2013, 06:06 PM
I can only conclude that your cops down there are busier and more jaded about the presence of guns than cops are where I live.
There's no way cops here would let the gun issue slide....it shouldn't be that hard to determine whose gun it was...


I wonder what has happened to the gun? Do the police still have it or did one of the three claim it?

I once was pulled over in Durham for speeding. The cop asked me if I had a gun. When I replied "no", he asked me if I wanted to buy one.


(Just kidding. I have great respect for our policemen in Durham and other cities. Being a cop is one of a few jobs that I would not want. )

BD80
08-07-2013, 06:09 PM
I wonder what has happened to the gun? Do the police still have it or did one of the three claim it?

"You have no proof that that is my gun, you can't file charges!"

"You're right, no gun charges"

"Can I have my gun now?"

DukieInKansas
08-07-2013, 06:57 PM
"You have no proof that that is my gun, you can't file charges!"

"You're right, no gun charges"

"Can I have my gun now?"

This is exactly what I pictured happening.

dukeofcalabash
08-07-2013, 07:38 PM
You may be on to something, but if we've learned anything this summer, isn't it that 'PJ Hairston does something foolish' doesn't necessarily require any additional explanation?

Instead of pleading "the fifth", he probably pleaded that it's "the Carolina Way"! :D

Newton_14
08-07-2013, 08:25 PM
Generally, I agree with this post, except for the part about the gun. No one, including Faulcon, has ever been charged with anything related to the gun. Since the gun was found outside the car, and as far as we know the police a) did not see anyone throw the gun from the car, b) did not find any fingerprints or other evidence on the gun to link it to anyone in the car, there is no more reason to attribute ownership of the gun to PJ as driver than to anyone else in the car.

One rebuttal. It's my understanding from the police report that the clip from the gun was found in the car. I get that none of the three were officially charged with gun related charges, but we do not know why that is. It was never made public why no charges came from the gun being found. The police never said whether or not they checked the gun for prints. I personally believe had it been 3 no name Durham kids in the vehicle that night, the gun charges would not have been dropped.

Reilly
08-07-2013, 08:59 PM
... it looks bad for Hairston or one of his passengers to be packing a gun, but it was not illegal. ...

I don't think it even looks bad. Hairston plays for an unhinged man, who has a pressure-filled job, and who has talked openly of his desire to shoot people in the behind. PJ probably packs for his own protection -- smartly, I might add.

MCFinARL
08-07-2013, 09:11 PM
One rebuttal. It's my understanding from the police report that the clip from the gun was found in the car. I get that none of the three were officially charged with gun related charges, but we do not know why that is. It was never made public why no charges came from the gun being found. The police never said whether or not they checked the gun for prints. I personally believe had it been 3 no name Durham kids in the vehicle that night, the gun charges would not have been dropped.

You may be right, because, unfortunately, that is often the way law enforcement works--bring as many charges as possible against people who are unlikely to have capable legal advice in the hope of getting a plea on the most important/legitimate charges.

But--as Olympic Fan has pointed out, it's apparently not illegal to own an unregistered gun in NC, so unless the police could not only connect the gun to the people in the car (which a clip might do) but connect it to something illegal--having been stolen or having been used in a crime, for example--it might not make any difference. Although I don't remember seeing any formal report, I think I read somewhere (maybe on Pack Pride?) that the police determined the gun was "clean."

Granted, as Urinal Cake noted, the presence of a gun does suggest the possibility that the people in the car may have been dealing rather than just possessing, but I doubt that kind of inference, without more, could be the basis for a criminal charge. For what it's worth, my gut instinct (also, clearly, not relevant in any legal proceedings) tells me that they were not actually dealing, gun or no gun.

Newton_14
08-07-2013, 09:28 PM
You may be right, because, unfortunately, that is often the way law enforcement works--bring as many charges as possible against people who are unlikely to have capable legal advice in the hope of getting a plea on the most important/legitimate charges.

But--as Olympic Fan has pointed out, it's apparently not illegal to own an unregistered gun in NC, so unless the police could not only connect the gun to the people in the car (which a clip might do) but connect it to something illegal--having been stolen or having been used in a crime, for example--it might not make any difference. Although I don't remember seeing any formal report, I think I read somewhere (maybe on Pack Pride?) that the police determined the gun was "clean."

Granted, as Urinal Cake noted, the presence of a gun does suggest the possibility that the people in the car may have been dealing rather than just possessing, but I doubt that kind of inference, without more, could be the basis for a criminal charge. For what it's worth, my gut instinct (also, clearly, not relevant in any legal proceedings) tells me that they were not actually dealing, gun or no gun.

Yeah I don't think they were dealing either. 3 blunts, 3 dudes in the car. The gun was most likely for protection given the neighborhood they were rolling in, and as Oly opined, it is not illegal to possess an unregistered gun. It is also not illegal to have it in your vehicle as long as it is not concealed.

To be clear on where I am coming from in this new thread, I believe PJ was treated differently than the other two guys in the vehicle because he is star player for UNC. Thus I am totally with the mom of the other kid in that the situation did not end fairly. Had Falcoune been driving and PJ a passenger, maybe it would make a little more sense. Can't say for sure. I just feel the Falcoune kid got a raw deal even though his penalty was relatively light. The bigger impact is it goes on his record and follows him through life while PJ's record remains clean.

UrinalCake
08-07-2013, 11:19 PM
I just feel the Falcoune kid got a raw deal even though his penalty was relatively light.

As discussed over on Pack Pride, one of Falcoune's mom's tweets referenced him being suspended for a semester based on the sentence. I don't know if this has actually happened yet, but it sounded like the mom thinks if he had had the charges dropped like PJ did, then he wouldn't be suspended from the school/team. I think this is fairly significant from their perspective. From what I know (and this comes from a buddy of mine who lives in Elizabeth City and thus follows the local news, but doesn't have any inside info or anything), Falcoune is one of the better players on the team and was expected to be their leading scorer coming into this season as a rising sophomore. An outside shooter like Hairston with good three-point range. I know that this is a different world than starting at UNC and contending for the Final Four, but Falcoune works hard too and has his own aspirations. It's not unreasonable for he and his family to think that with a great season he might be able to transfer to a bigger school, and have a shot at something more. But with this sentence and the likely suspension that will result from it, it is unlikely that a major conference school will want to take a chance on letting him transfer in.

So from that perspective, I can see how they'd be peeved at the difference in Hairston's sentence as compared to Faulcone's, however minor it may seem.

gofurman
08-07-2013, 11:35 PM
Interesting. Not sure how this will help her son, but it seems she feels an injustice has been done. I wonder if her son has a record or if this was a first offense. It does seem strange that his charges weren't dismissed....

I have to say I remember thinking when all charges against PJ were dismissed that 'would I have been treated the same'? I think not. I was caught speeding that week and - as deserved - a ticket was given to me which I will pay. PJ has a gun (cant prove it is his), weed, is stopped at a license check without a license, is speeding, all in a car possibly tied to an ex-con... And he gets nothing! I still find that very odd in such a public case as usually these days with the media lurking you cant just sweep things under the rug as much - once the story broke I was shocked he wasn't penalized with a ticket or community service or something. Honestly, I thought it would have been better for UNC if he had gotten a ticket and PTI or something. Otherwise it smacks of "we give preferential treatment to UNC players". Which is exactly what this latest development adds to - that UNC players get away with more than even other basketball players. In a case so public I am quite surprised

nocilla
08-08-2013, 08:42 AM
I have to say I remember thinking when all charges against PJ were dismissed that 'would I have been treated the same'? I think not. I was caught speeding that week and - as deserved - a ticket was given to me which I will pay. PJ has a gun (cant prove it is his), weed, is stopped at a license check without a license, is speeding, all in a car possibly tied to an ex-con... And he gets nothing! I still find that very odd in such a public case as usually these days with the media lurking you cant just sweep things under the rug as much - once the story broke I was shocked he wasn't penalized with a ticket or community service or something. Honestly, I thought it would have been better for UNC if he had gotten a ticket and PTI or something. Otherwise it smacks of "we give preferential treatment to UNC players". Which is exactly what this latest development adds to - that UNC players get away with more than even other basketball players. In a case so public I am quite surprised

Well he wasn't cited for speeding at the traffic stop. He was caught speeding on the other two stops. He was ticketed those times for speeding and I assume he will have to pay those fines at the least.

devil84
08-08-2013, 09:34 AM
As discussed over on Pack Pride, one of Falcoune's mom's tweets referenced him being suspended for a semester based on the sentence. I don't know if this has actually happened yet, but it sounded like the mom thinks if he had had the charges dropped like PJ did, then he wouldn't be suspended from the school/team. I think this is fairly significant from their perspective. From what I know (and this comes from a buddy of mine who lives in Elizabeth City and thus follows the local news, but doesn't have any inside info or anything), Falcoune is one of the better players on the team and was expected to be their leading scorer coming into this season as a rising sophomore. An outside shooter like Hairston with good three-point range. I know that this is a different world than starting at UNC and contending for the Final Four, but Falcoune works hard too and has his own aspirations. It's not unreasonable for he and his family to think that with a great season he might be able to transfer to a bigger school, and have a shot at something more. But with this sentence and the likely suspension that will result from it, it is unlikely that a major conference school will want to take a chance on letting him transfer in.

So from that perspective, I can see how they'd be peeved at the difference in Hairston's sentence as compared to Faulcone's, however minor it may seem.

Both ECSU and UNC are two of the 17 institutions in the same University of North Carolina (http://www.northcarolina.edu/campus_profiles/index.php) system. A parent might reasonably expect that if her child, a star basketball player at one institution, is caught in the same incident with a star basketball player from another institution in the same system, that the two players might get similar treatment.

Arguably, the two ball players are not in identical circumstances. One had a better lawyer and was pro-active to take steps to get the charges dropped, the other didn't. One is a star on a perennially elite team, the other stars on a team that hardly gets recognition in the state. Both players have put their schools in jeopardy with potential NCAA violations because of the circumstances of the vehicle rental. However, the elite, pro-active player gets "suspended from the team indefinitely" after the next -- his third -- traffic incident (and after the under-age drinking photos made the social media rounds), while the other star player is suspended from the school for a semester for his first offense.

Yeah, I can see how Faulcone's mom might be a little peeved, especially since the two players attend schools in the same University of North Carolina system.

(Yes, I know that the UNC System's 17 schools aren't all equal, but they do have the same BOG. My kids have attended NCSU and UNC-G, so I'm well aware of the differences in the schools. That web page I linked sure makes them look a lot more equal.)

OldPhiKap
08-08-2013, 01:32 PM
Has momma talked to anyone yet, or has this blown over?

CameronBornAndBred
08-08-2013, 02:51 PM
Has momma talked to anyone yet, or has this blown over?
Maybe she is negotiating some prices...

SeattleIrish
08-08-2013, 04:01 PM
For those of us outside the twitterverse, can anyone post a link or cut/paste her comments/tweets?

s.i.

diablesseblu
08-09-2013, 09:20 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/rental-tied-to-unc-player-gets-12-parking-tickets/12761143/

OldPhiKap
08-09-2013, 09:32 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/rental-tied-to-unc-player-gets-12-parking-tickets/12761143/

Roy must hate weekends.

This is pretty damning IMO. Hairston will have an NCAA cloud over his head all season, Roy can't play him.

I think he is done.

(Great find, tried to spork you but am barred at present)

ncexnyc
08-09-2013, 09:41 PM
PJ is the gift that keeps on giving for all State and Duke fans. This story just won't go away, but it appears as though UNC won't do anything about it until the NCAA gets involved.
Of course I'm sure heels fans everywhere will be quick to point out that these tickets can't be tied to PJ and that this is all some gigantic coincidence.

Atlanta Duke
08-09-2013, 10:06 PM
Is this the first time Porsche (for which there is no substitute) has made an appearance in Wheels for Heels?

The final two parking citations were issued while the car was rented from April 25 to June 17 under the name of Catinia Farrington, who shares Thomas' Durham address....

In addition, a 2009 Porsche Cayenne registered to Farrington was twice cited for campus parking violations, once on April 19 and once on July 1, according to school records.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/08/09/3096203/rental-tied-to-unc-player-gets.html

Wonder who was driving the Cayenne?

SupaDave
08-09-2013, 10:35 PM
Couldn't be Hairston. UNC players don't get parking ticktets... :rolleyes:

diablesseblu
08-09-2013, 11:03 PM
Roy must hate weekends.

This is pretty damning IMO. Hairston will have an NCAA cloud over his head all season, Roy can't play him.

I think he is done.

(Great find, tried to spork you but am barred at present)

Just the idea of a "spork" from you is an honor. Both of my uncles were Phi Kaps. I have many happy memories of visiting "the section" and how nice the guys were.

ncexnyc
08-09-2013, 11:10 PM
Is this the first time Porsche (for which there is no substitute) has made an appearance in Wheels for Heels?


On DBR yes, over at Pack Pride no. IIRC those tin foil hat wearing, lunatics over at Pack Pride managed to lift some photos of this vehicle from some twitter or facebook page. There were several vehicles sitting in someone's driveway.

Funny how those crazies keep digging more gold every week, while the IC crowd keeps thumbing their nose at State fans claiming this is all in their sick minds.

diablesseblu
08-09-2013, 11:31 PM
On DBR yes, over at Pack Pride no. IIRC those tin foil hat wearing, lunatics over at Pack Pride managed to lift some photos of this vehicle from some twitter or facebook page. There were several vehicles sitting in someone's driveway.

Funny how those crazies keep digging more gold every week, while the IC crowd keeps thumbing their nose at State fans claiming this is all in their sick minds.


Isn't it fascinating how much the "Wolfpack Nation" keeps uncovering? At the same time, there are just "crickets" out of Indianapolis. ;-)

ncexnyc
08-09-2013, 11:47 PM
Isn't it fascinating how much the "Wolfpack Nation" keeps uncovering? At the same time, there are just "crickets" out of Indianapolis. ;-)

I guess you can't find anything if you don't want to look. Maybe the NCAA is waiting for UNC to self report this.:rolleyes:

plimnko
08-10-2013, 06:11 AM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/rental-tied-to-unc-player-gets-12-parking-tickets/12761143/

AMAZING!! how quickly this disappeared from the wral web page.

Jim3k
08-10-2013, 06:57 AM
AMAZING!! how quickly this disappeared from the wral web page.

There was a lot of innuendo which didn't clearly prove the point they were trying to make. I wouldn't read too much into its disappearance beyond that.

Newton_14
08-10-2013, 08:14 AM
more links
http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/x135061984/Rental-tied-to-UNC-player-gets-12-parking-tickets
http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/08/09/3096203/rental-tied-to-unc-player-gets.html
http://www.journalnow.com/sports/colleges/basketball/article_53a538d2-0161-11e3-bf57-0019bb30f31a.html

OldPhiKap
08-10-2013, 08:42 AM
May need to reopen the PJ poll.

And if this goes back to mid-March, it may lead to UNC vacating games. I believe their last game was a March 24th loss to Kansas.

Clearly, someone beyond PJ and Fatz knows who was driving the car. Kinda conspicuous, no?


Edit: looks like the car was rented March 25th, the day after the season ended.

DukieInKansas
08-10-2013, 11:34 AM
So, if all the rentals and tickets and drinking, etc. were done after last season was over and before the new season started and he was not taking classes or working out with the team during this time, they can retroactively suspend him for that time period and they should be good to go. Won't that work for them?
I would think some/most? unc fans would go along with that.

devildeac
08-10-2013, 01:54 PM
Roy must hate weekends.

This is pretty damning IMO. Hairston will have an NCAA cloud over his head all season, Roy can't play him.

I think he is done.

(Great find, tried to spork you but am barred at present)


Just the idea of a "spork" from you is an honor. Both of my uncles were Phi Kaps. I have many happy memories of visiting "the section" and how nice the guys were.

I "covered" OPK with the sporks;). Thanks for finding and sharing.

Reilly
08-10-2013, 02:08 PM
I guess you can't find anything if you don't want to look. ...

No, no. The NCAA and UNC are on this. But as Butch Davis eloquently stated, "How do you keep tabs on 27,000 students?" That Butch, he was a logician of the highest order.

I'm sure they are working their way through the student directory one name at a time. They'll get to "H" for Hairston in due time....

BD80
08-10-2013, 03:47 PM
Is this the first time Porsche (for which there is no substitute) has made an appearance in Wheels for Heels?

The final two parking citations were issued while the car was rented from April 25 to June 17 under the name of Catinia Farrington, who shares Thomas' Durham address....

In addition, a 2009 Porsche Cayenne registered to Farrington was twice cited for campus parking violations, once on April 19 and once on July 1, according to school records.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/08/09/3096203/rental-tied-to-unc-player-gets.html

Wonder who was driving the Cayenne?

This SHOULD come to light. What kid in today's world would drive a Cayenne, MSRP $50,000 - $100,000, and NOT post some sort of evidence on social media? If not the driver, at least a passenger!

PSurprise
08-10-2013, 03:49 PM
I just can't wait to read all about next week's revelations. I'll wonder what it'll be...

Henderson
08-10-2013, 06:44 PM
I've been looking at the Chapel Hill News and Daily Tarheel. I think their investigative journalists are on vacation or studying hard for their AFAM exams.

ricks68
08-10-2013, 07:03 PM
I "covered" OPK with the sporks;). Thanks for finding and sharing.

Whoops. I also covered the sporks before I read this. Since mine aren't as valuable as OPK's, however, maybe when added to devildeac's it will add up to be equivalent.:)

ricks

SupaDave
08-10-2013, 08:34 PM
This SHOULD come to light. What kid in today's world would drive a Cayenne, MSRP $50,000 - $100,000, and NOT post some sort of evidence on social media? If not the driver, at least a passenger!

If it's the rental version - it's lame. Trust me on this.

OldPhiKap
08-10-2013, 09:38 PM
Whoops. I also covered the sporks before I read this. Since mine aren't as valuable as OPK's, however, maybe when added to devildeac's it will add up to be equivalent.:)

ricks

Both of yours are of higher quality than mine, I assure you.

Regarding PJ, can Roy play him until the NcAA gives the all-clear? And doesn't hat take more than a year? I think he's gotta sit.

ricks68
08-11-2013, 12:01 AM
Regarding PJ, can Roy play him until the NcAA gives the all-clear? And doesn't hat take more than a year? I think he's gotta sit.

It looks like this scenario is gaining a lot more credence in my mind, also.

ricks

Henderson
08-11-2013, 03:41 PM
Let's assume PJ doesn't play this year.

1. What does that do to his draft status in 2014? Quality NBA prospect or damaged goods without recent PT?
2. Or would he sit out this year, play next year, and enter the draft in 2015?
3. If he has to sit this year, might he transfer? Is it too late for him to transfer for next year and sit the year out?
4. Would sitting out this year at UNC-CH on a suspension give him another year of eligibility, meaning he could look forward to the 2016 draft, having two more years of PT before he enters?

I don't see sufficient maturity here to forecast his being a student-athlete in good standing through next year, let alone 2016, but I'm interested in his options.

OldPhiKap
08-11-2013, 03:59 PM
Let's assume PJ doesn't play this year.

1. What does that do to his draft status in 2014? Quality NBA prospect or damaged goods without recent PT?
2. Or would he sit out this year, play next year, and enter the draft in 2015?
3. If he has to sit this year, might he transfer? Is it too late for him to transfer for next year and sit the year out?
4. Would sitting out this year at UNC-CH on a suspension give him another year of eligibility, meaning he could look forward to the 2016 draft, having two more years of PT before he enters?

I don't see sufficient maturity here to forecast his being a student-athlete in good standing through next year, let alone 2016, but I'm interested in his options.

Guesses:

1. Sitting a year drops him down the chart. Better off going to Europe if he is set on the NBA draft next year.
2. Probably his better choice, but it would take maturity and commitment. My magic 8 ball says "not likely"
3. I think he can transfer up until the time he enrolled for the fall semester, but still has to sit a year. No reason to do this.
4. Good question, players take years off without affecting eligibility (Andre Dawkins, several Mormon players come to mind). I think PJ is not this patient though.

Good questions.

FerryFor50
08-11-2013, 04:02 PM
Guesses:

1. Sitting a year drops him down the chart. Better off going to Europe if he is set on the NBA draft next year.
2. Probably his better choice, but it would take maturity and commitment. My magic 8 ball says "not likely"
3. I think he can transfer up until the time he enrolled for the fall semester, but still has to sit a year. No reason to do this.
4. Good question, players take years off without affecting eligibility (Andre Dawkins, several Mormon players come to mind). I think PJ is not this patient though.

Good questions.

Or go to the d league like Glen Rice Jr did and get drafted in the first round anyway...

OldPhiKap
08-11-2013, 04:11 PM
Or go to the d league like Glen Rice Jr did and get drafted in the first round anyway...

Yes, that as well.

IF he thinks his best future move is to enter next year's draft, and/or avoid the prison that is UNC basketball (per McCants), best move is to go show skills now and get some scratch as opposed to missing a good part or all of a year and then hope he is not too damaged.

Jarhead
08-11-2013, 04:20 PM
Guesses:

1. Sitting a year drops him down the chart. Better off going to Europe if he is set on the NBA draft next year.
2. Probably his better choice, but it would take maturity and commitment. My magic 8 ball says "not likely"
3. I think he can transfer up until the time he enrolled for the fall semester, but still has to sit a year. No reason to do this.
4. Good question, players take years off without affecting eligibility (Andre Dawkins, several Mormon players come to mind). I think PJ is not this patient though.

Good questions.

Another question -- if he should opt for the transfer route would he would be required to sit out for whatever suspension he gets plus the one year sit out that goes with the transfer? My recommendation would be for him to get an agent tomorrow, and take the best deal the agent gets, here or abroad.

CameronBornAndBred
08-11-2013, 05:52 PM
He treated his coach and program like people he doesn't care about, he put himself first, time and time again, AFTER being busted once.
Who is he going to transfer to that gives him the chance for national exposure that UNC does? Who is going to take him, knowing that he already turned down the NBA once? Not gonna happen.
He is not going to sit on the bench of any other school just so he can play one only more year, and no other school is going to invest in him to give him that opportunity.

MartyClark
08-11-2013, 06:25 PM
Another question -- if he should opt for the transfer route would he would be required to sit out for whatever suspension he gets plus the one year sit out that goes with the transfer? My recommendation would be for him to get an agent tomorrow, and take the best deal the agent gets, here or abroad.

As I understand it, there is no money in the D League for a guy without an NBA contract.

Awhom111, you are the expert in the Euro leagues. What's the process by which Hairston could sign with a Euro team? How much could he make?

dukelifer
08-11-2013, 07:04 PM
As I understand it, there is no money in the D League for a guy without an NBA contract.

Awhom111, you are the expert in the Euro leagues. What's the process by which Hairston could sign with a Euro team? How much could he make?

Regardless- no real money to be made in D league. He would need to be paid other ways- i.e. a loan based of future earnings etc.

FerryFor50
08-11-2013, 07:26 PM
Regardless- no real money to be made in D league. He would need to be paid other ways- i.e. a loan based of future earnings etc.

If only he knew people with access to illicit cash...

Oh, wait.

awhom111
08-12-2013, 04:31 PM
As I understand it, there is no money in the D League for a guy without an NBA contract.

Awhom111, you are the expert in the Euro leagues. What's the process by which Hairston could sign with a Euro team? How much could he make?

Ordinarily I would not read or post in this sort of thread, but I fortuitously happened upon this post, so now I feel obligated to respond.

There is no "process" exactly. He does not have to declare his availability or anything (some players even get unsolicited offers: http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/06/texas-ioannis-papapetrou-being-courted-by-two-greek-teams/ ). It would be helpful to have an agent (enter Mr. Blackstock? though I suggest one with actual experience with placing players overseas, like Makhtar N'Diaye for example) since they have all the connections around the world and can advise players on good deals. Hairston could probably get a decent deal overseas right now that would net him six figures (although there is always the concern of being paid on time). There is also the problem of drug testing, which can in fact earn you a suspension for marijuana (see Gist, James).

Honestly if I were advising him, I would suggest trying to find a gig in a place like China regardless of his college status, where he will be away from the influences of people he knows and can focus fully on his future. Glen Rice Jr. said himself that he made the right choice to go to the D League and make some changes and better decisions. At the end of the day, it would be bad to harm your own future with avoidable bad decisions.

CameronBornAndBred
08-14-2013, 06:23 PM
Ol' Roy talks to media, to say he's not talking.

"P.J. and I have had several discussions already and he knows he has made serious mistakes and there will be serious consequences as a result," Williams said on July 15. "Our basketball program is based on great ideals, and these issues are embarrassing."
He then added that serious consequences don't include missing any important tournament games, because that would require PJ to do something REALLY stupid, like getting pulled over in a rental car with weed and throwing a gun out of the car.
Oh....wait....

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/williams-i-m-not-talking-about-p-j-/12776721/

OldPhiKap
08-14-2013, 06:29 PM
Ol' Roy talks to media, to say he's not talking.

He then added that serious consequences don't include missing any important tournament games, because that would require PJ to do something REALLY stupid, like getting pulled over in a rental car with weed and throwing a gun out of the car.
Oh....wait....

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/williams-i-m-not-talking-about-p-j-/12776721/

"I'm not talking about P.J. I've read about it all damn summer," Williams said Wednesday. "I'm tired of reading about it. I'm tired of talking about it."

Way to ruin his golf appearance. But Roy, if this is under your skin now, do you think it will be better when it comes up in EVERY game the kid plays?

Heck damn golly.

PSurprise
08-14-2013, 07:03 PM
"I'm not talking about P.J. I've read about it all damn summer," Williams said Wednesday. "I'm tired of reading about it. I'm tired of talking about it."

Way to ruin his golf appearance. But Roy, if this is under your skin now, do you think it will be better when it comes up in EVERY game the kid plays?

Heck damn golly.

That's funny because I really haven't heard him talk about it much this summer. Maybe he's tired of having to talk to PJ for the repeated imbecilic mistakes he's made this spring and summer

OldPhiKap
08-14-2013, 07:07 PM
That's funny because I really haven't heard him talk about it much this summer. Maybe he's tired of having to talk to PJ for the repeated imbecilic mistakes he's made this spring and summer

To be fair, most of the conversations were between Roy in the first person and Roy in the third.

hudlow
08-14-2013, 07:14 PM
I am Roy the great and powerful...if I don't talk about it....it will go away...

roywhite
08-14-2013, 07:29 PM
To be fair, most of the conversations were between Roy in the first person and Roy in the third.

Classic. :D

BD80
08-14-2013, 08:34 PM
... Williams said Wednesday. "... I'm tired of talking about it."

...

And I am just as tired of giving Nobel Prize acceptance speeches.

chaosmage
08-15-2013, 12:26 AM
Put PJ off the team. State unequivocally that it was done for the good of the program. Answer all questions in one press conference, and then that is the end of it. Let it spread through the reporting circles that future questions regarding PJ will be met with suspended press privileges, etc.

Example: "Coach, after getting stomped by Duke 82-50, do you now regret kicking PJ Hairston off the team, and is this a catastrophe worse than the Haitian earthquake?"

Questions like that, for example. :-P

Reilly
08-15-2013, 12:32 AM
To be fair, most of the conversations were between Roy in the first person and Roy in the third.

Wait -- Roy's masseuse is named Roy?

OldPhiKap
08-15-2013, 06:54 AM
Wait -- Roy's masseuse is named Roy?

The masseuse is French Canadian, though, so it's pronounced "Wah"

FerryFor50
08-15-2013, 11:34 AM
What I find funniest about this whole thing is that PJ is getting the MJ treatment. I mean, he's a decent player, but is he really THIS good? Good enough to risk NCAA sanctions?

I'd even understand it if they had a chance at the NCAA championship, but the reality is that this team is going to be a 4-7 seed in the tourny and possibly won't make it to the 2nd weekend. And PJ is not MJ.

Papa John
08-15-2013, 11:48 AM
And PJ is not MJ.

No... But PJ clearly smokes MJ...

Oh, wait... Wrong MJ... Carry on...

Ichabod Drain
08-15-2013, 12:36 PM
What I find funniest about this whole thing is that PJ is getting the MJ treatment. I mean, he's a decent player, but is he really THIS good? Good enough to risk NCAA sanctions?

I'd even understand it if they had a chance at the NCAA championship, but the reality is that this team is going to be a 4-7 seed in the tourny and possibly won't make it to the 2nd weekend. And PJ is not MJ.

I agree he's not MJ but he would most likely be their best player next year. Without him they're more likely an 8-not seeded.

FerryFor50
08-15-2013, 01:44 PM
I agree he's not MJ but he would most likely be their best player next year. Without him they're more likely an 8-not seeded.

Yea, but why risk several seasons of sanctions when you can just roll the ball out without your best player (who isn't even that good) and see what happens?

They're still going to sell tickets, merch, etc. And they're still not going to win the NCAAs.

Same overall results with less risk of sanctions? Sign me up!

hudlow
08-15-2013, 02:03 PM
Yea, but why risk several seasons of sanctions when you can just roll the ball out without your best player (who isn't even that good) and see what happens?

They're still going to sell tickets, merch, etc. And they're still not going to win the NCAAs.

Same overall results with less risk of sanctions? Sign me up!

And the salary is the same...

plimnko
08-15-2013, 03:43 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-s-hairston-will-play-but-not-all-the-games-/12780914/

count the cupcakes and figure just how many games

Duvall
08-15-2013, 03:47 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-s-hairston-will-play-but-not-all-the-games-/12780914/

count the cupcakes and figure just how many games

I don't see the point in bringing Hairston back for the non-cupcake games - it's not like UNC will have much of a chance to beat Louisville or Kentucky *with* Hairston. So why not bring him back for the second semester and give the Selection Committee a reason to discount those early beatings?

BigWayne
08-15-2013, 03:47 PM
latest salvo over at PP to keep this humming:

Ok... If PJ had valid NC Drivers license, then why would he be issued another new drivers license number on July 16th 2013... Just a couple of days before he got the sweet deal? Did they not know about his prayer for Judgement on his previous "Driving without a license" and Speeding (on a different "Inactive" Drivers License ID Number) on July 16th, 2011 in Wake County?

hudlow
08-15-2013, 04:03 PM
latest salvo over at PP to keep this humming:

Ok... If PJ had valid NC Drivers license, then why would he be issued another new drivers license number on July 16th 2013... Just a couple of days before he got the sweet deal? Did they not know about his prayer for Judgement on his previous "Driving without a license" and Speeding (on a different "Inactive" Drivers License ID Number) on July 16th, 2011 in Wake County?


He wore his old one out cleaning out the seeds....?

CameronBornAndBred
08-15-2013, 04:05 PM
From PJ's tweet, I can only assume that God wants Carolina to go to Hell too.

OldPhiKap
08-15-2013, 04:08 PM
latest salvo over at PP to keep this humming:

Ok... If PJ had valid NC Drivers license, then why would he be issued another new drivers license number on July 16th 2013... Just a couple of days before he got the sweet deal? Did they not know about his prayer for Judgement on his previous "Driving without a license" and Speeding (on a different "Inactive" Drivers License ID Number) on July 16th, 2011 in Wake County?

If you misplace your license in NC and get another, does it have a different ID number? That's the only think I can think.

Georgia's ID numbers for years was your social security number. A few years ago, when you got your licensed renewed, you got a different ID number due to identity theft issues. So perhaps there is an innocent reason, assuming there are in fact two different numbers.

BigWayne
08-15-2013, 04:56 PM
If you misplace your license in NC and get another, does it have a different ID number? That's the only think I can think.

Georgia's ID numbers for years was your social security number. A few years ago, when you got your licensed renewed, you got a different ID number due to identity theft issues. So perhaps there is an innocent reason, assuming there are in fact two different numbers.

There's an explanation over at PP now that one of the numbers might have been a temporary number because he didn't yet have a NCDL. Still fishy though. If he didn't have the license in 2011, but got one in a hurry to appease the court, he shouldn't have gotten a new number this year. Of course it's possible there is a misinterpretation of data by the PP guys.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-15-2013, 05:01 PM
If you misplace your license in NC and get another, does it have a different ID number? That's the only think I can think.

Unless thy have changed the system, no. I turned 16 in NC and got my license. Lived in NC for about 6 or 7 years, moved out of state and lived in several other places over 10 years. When I moved back to NC, I retained my old license number.

sagegrouse
08-15-2013, 05:04 PM
If you misplace your license in NC and get another, does it have a different ID number? That's the only think I can think.

Georgia's ID numbers for years was your social security number. A few years ago, when you got your licensed renewed, you got a different ID number due to identity theft issues. So perhaps there is an innocent reason, assuming there are in fact two different numbers.

In many states, including Colorado, the unique state driver's license # is actually a coded version of the SSN, although it may also have some part of your name.

sagegrouse

BlueDevilBrowns
08-15-2013, 05:08 PM
Unless thy have changed the system, no. I turned 16 in NC and got my license. Lived in NC for about 6 or 7 years, moved out of state and lived in several other places over 10 years. When I moved back to NC, I retained my old license number.

Yes, in NC, when you have to get a new license, for whatever reason, they give you the same number.

Underneath that number on the new license, it will have the abbreviation "Dup" for duplicate ID if the original license isn't expired.

jjasper0729
08-15-2013, 05:15 PM
Yes, in NC, when you have to get a new license, for whatever reason, they give you the same number.

Underneath that number on the new license, it will have the abbreviation "Dup" for duplicate ID if the original license isn't expired.

I had NC license at 16 and moved out of state (to Georgia) in 1997 and got one there. moved back and my NC license had expired but I got it renewed before it had been expired a year. After a year expiration, at THAT time, they said you get a new number. I have retained my original license number luckily. Much easier to remember.

OldPhiKap
08-15-2013, 05:19 PM
Yes, in NC, when you have to get a new license, for whatever reason, they give you the same number.

Underneath that number on the new license, it will have the abbreviation "Dup" for duplicate ID if the original license isn't expired.

Maybe under PJ's it should say "Dope"


Thanks to all for the responses. OPK

davekay1971
08-15-2013, 05:41 PM
Unless thy have changed the system, no. I turned 16 in NC and got my license. Lived in NC for about 6 or 7 years, moved out of state and lived in several other places over 10 years. When I moved back to NC, I retained my old license number.

Was about to post this. Got an NC DL number in 1989 when I matriculated to Duke. Moved out of NC in 1997, came back in 2005 and got my old number back.

However, one day I was driving someone else's rental car without a license after numerous speeding tickets in various other cars that someone else had rented, was pulled over at a checkpoint, threw my loaded handgun out of the window, switched places with the dude in the passenger seat, and had my bag of weed confiscated. The DA told me they'd dismiss the charges and issue me a new DL number to avoid any inconvience with the multiple infractions on the old license number. I used to be amazed at how helpful the Durham DA was with my case, until all this happened with PJ, at which point I realized this must just be standard protocol in that situation.

sagegrouse
08-15-2013, 06:47 PM
Here's the link (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9571396/pj-hairston-north-carolina-tar-heels-miss-some-games) from a meeting Cunningham had with the UNC journalism faculty.

sagegrouse

OldPhiKap
08-15-2013, 07:45 PM
Here's the link (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9571396/pj-hairston-north-carolina-tar-heels-miss-some-games) from a meeting Cunningham had with the UNC journalism faculty.

sagegrouse

I guess all of the information must be in.

hurleyfor3
08-15-2013, 08:14 PM
In many states, including Colorado, the unique state driver's license # is actually a coded version of the SSN, although it may also have some part of your name.

Incorrect, at least as of when I got mine. In colorado the first two digits are the year, the next three are the day of year, the last four are the sequence from that day.

My license starts with 10-187, and the date of issue is... July 6, 2010.

Illinois uses your name, converted to Soundex code, and date of birth.

I think NC is straight sequential, without check digits (PA definitely is). My NC license number from 1988 was a seven-digit number starting with 816.

sagegrouse
08-15-2013, 08:42 PM
Incorrect, at least as of when I got mine. In colorado the first two digits are the year, the next three are the day of year, the last four are the sequence from that day.

My license starts with 10-187, and the date of issue is... July 6, 2010.

Illinois uses your name, converted to Soundex code, and date of birth.

I think NC is straight sequential, without check digits (PA definitely is). My NC license number from 1988 was a seven-digit number starting with 816.

Yeah, you're right. Mine is 04-189 and I got my license after moving to CO in 2004. Maybe I was thinking of Md or DC, my prior licenses, that used Soundex to generate a license number.

sage
'Yep, Maryland. Here's a link (http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/numbers/dl_us_shared_mmm.html)'

gumbomoop
08-15-2013, 08:51 PM
I guess all of the information must be in.

Re the crucial information that RW needs, I infer that he is confident, or knows to a certainty, that the NCAA will at most require him to suspend PJ for some yet-unspecified number of games, on account of impermissible benefits. It's possible, of course, that RW is also either confident or hopeful that the NCAA isn't interested in investigating PJ's relationship with Fats, period, thus leaving the extent of the suspension entirely up to RW.

In any case, RW does not believe that PJ has embarrassed the University sufficiently to justify his being kicked off the team. From what I can infer from several EK posters who have been brave enough to venture over to IC, this means that Roy has lower standards than some, apparently even a substantial number of, IC posters.

I guess this is "I don't give a .... about North Carolina" redivivus.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-15-2013, 09:16 PM
Re the crucial information that RW needs, I infer that he is confident, or knows to a certainty, that the NCAA will at most require him to suspend PJ for some yet-unspecified number of games, on account of impermissible benefits. It's possible, of course, that RW is also either confident or hopeful that the NCAA isn't interested in investigating PJ's relationship with Fats, period, thus leaving the extent of the suspension entirely up to RW.

In any case, RW does not believe that PJ has embarrassed the University sufficiently to justify his being kicked off the team. From what I can infer from several EK posters who have been brave enough to venture over to IC, this means that Roy has lower standards than some, apparently even a substantial number of, IC posters.

I guess this is "I don't give a .... about North Carolina" redivivus.
I've said this before... I think it is entirely possible that UNC simply sees keeping PJ on the team as the safest move. Dumping him opens the door to him getting pissed and sharing god only knows how much information about what has really gone on. I just don't see how else they can justify him missing only "some" games. Call me skeptical but this could easily be a critical tactic drawn up by administration and the PR consultants. Take the heat for the weak punishment instead of risking a meltdown of epic proportions.

Duvall
08-15-2013, 09:17 PM
I've said this before... I think it is entirely possible that UNC simply sees keeping PJ on the team as the safest move. Dumping him opens the door to him getting pissed and sharing god only knows how much information about what has really gone on. I just don't see how else they can justify him missing only "some" games. Call me skeptical but this could easily be a critical tactic drawn up by administration and the PR consultants. Take the heat for the weak punishment instead of risking a meltdown of epic proportions.

What heat? I'm sure ESPN is working on the gauzy stories about Roy's "tough discipline" as we speak.

BlueDevilBrowns
08-15-2013, 09:29 PM
I think NC is straight sequential, without check digits (PA definitely is). My NC license number from 1988 was a seven-digit number starting with 816.

This is correct. I have seen Older folks who have had a NCDL for many years have a 5 digit license number. The longer you've had it, the lower your number is.

sagegrouse
08-15-2013, 09:43 PM
I've said this before... I think it is entirely possible that UNC simply sees keeping PJ on the team as the safest move. Dumping him opens the door to him getting pissed and sharing god only knows how much information about what has really gone on. I just don't see how else they can justify him missing only "some" games. Call me skeptical but this could easily be a critical tactic drawn up by administration and the PR consultants. Take the heat for the weak punishment instead of risking a meltdown of epic proportions.

While I don't expect UNC to wash its dirty laundry in public, I do expect UNC to have some degree of transparency inside-- among the AD, Roy, the compliance staff, the dean of students and the new chancellor. UNC has to deal with this carefully, I believe, and the decision about PJ has to make sense. I mean, this is a huge pile of elephant dung, and it will be used as a precedent for a decade or so. Moreover, the NCAA gets a vote. And I expect the compliance staff at UNC has totally given up on PJ and his friends, not believing anything they say.

I don't think the new chancellor, Carol Folt, will settle for an explanation from Bubba like, "Coach Roy decided." Her predecessor met his demise over hanky-panky among his direct reports (Ms. Hansbrough) and widespread flouting of academic standards involving athletes.

I still think that, even if allowed to play one-half the season, PJ may decide that the "trial by fire" encountered at every venue, including the Dean Dome, is not worth the trouble,

sagegrouse

camion
08-15-2013, 09:52 PM
While I don't expect UNC to wash its dirty laundry in public, I do expect UNC to have some degree of transparency inside-- among the AD, Roy, the compliance staff, the dean of students and the new chancellor. UNC has to deal with this carefully, I believe, and the decision about PJ has to make sense. I mean, this is a huge pile of elephant dung, and it will be used as a precedent for a decade or so. Moreover, the NCAA gets a vote. And I expect the compliance staff at UNC has totally given up on PJ and his friends, not believing anything they say.

I don't think the new chancellor, Carol Folt, will settle for an explanation from Bubba like, "Coach Roy decided." Her predecessor met his demise over hanky-panky among his direct reports (Ms. Hansbrough) and widespread flouting of academic standards involving athletes.

I still think that, even if allowed to play one-half the season, PJ may decide that the "trial by fire" encountered at every venue, including the Dean Dome, is not worth the trouble,

sagegrouse

Given PJ's seeming inability to see consequences of actions I am confident that he will be halfway through the season before he begins to consider what you are talking about.

Henderson
08-15-2013, 10:12 PM
Here's the link (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9571396/pj-hairston-north-carolina-tar-heels-miss-some-games) from a meeting Cunningham had with the UNC journalism faculty.

sagegrouse

What is the sound of one wrist slapping, grasshopper?

left_hook_lacey
08-15-2013, 11:41 PM
I think now that we know there is a chance PJ could play in Cameron this year, it's time to get a running list of possible chants for that game. My God, where do we begin. And I think that with PJ's repeated poor judgement, and Roy's refusal to sit him for the year, that leaves the door wide open to the full gauntlet of taunts. Almost nothing should be off limits.

I say we start out with chanting "Dude, where's my car?" when he is in possession of the ball for the first few minutes of the game and scale it up from there..

I'd love to incorporate "There's Hertz and then, there's not exactly" in there somewhere too. But that doesn't really roll of the tongue cleanly for a chant. I want the audience at home to be able to make these out clearly on TV.

What say you?

chaosmage
08-15-2013, 11:51 PM
9000+ sets of keys jangling every time he touches the ball should be interesting. To say the least.

I'm sure others can be more creative.

devildeac
08-16-2013, 12:45 AM
I think now that we know there is a chance PJ could play in Cameron this year, it's time to get a running list of possible chants for that game. My God, where do we begin. And I think that with PJ's repeated poor judgement, and Roy's refusal to sit him for the year, that leaves the door wide open to the full gauntlet of taunts. Almost nothing should be off limits.

I say we start out with chanting "Dude, where's my car?" when he is in possession of the ball for the first few minutes of the game and scale it up from there..

I'd love to incorporate "There's Hertz and then, there's not exactly" in there somewhere too. But that doesn't really roll of the tongue cleanly for a chant. I want the audience at home to be able to make these out clearly on TV.

What say you?


9000+ sets of keys jangling every time he touches the ball should be interesting. To say the least.

I'm sure others can be more creative.

CAR------HEELS

CAR------HEELS


Or:


CAR-----WHEELS

CAR-----WHEELS


I think Native will be sure that the Cameron Crusties and TV audiences can tell the difference between what is chanted in CIS and what is typically chanted at the Dump on the Hump or Kenan. Right, Native;)?

left_hook_lacey
08-16-2013, 02:33 AM
CAR------HEELS

CAR------HEELS


Or:


CAR-----WHEELS

CAR-----WHEELS


I think Native will be sure that the Cameron Crusties and TV audiences can tell the difference between what is chanted in CIS and what is typically chanted at the Dump on the Hump or Kenan. Right, Native;)?

This would be good if we could have someone make up some of those giant photo heads that everyone is doing now in other arenas. I'm against them personally because I think it causes a nightmare for John Public sitting behind said sign, but this is a special occasion, and any Dukie worth his or her salt would make an exception.

How about when half the stadium yells Car!....that side holds a mix of images of the suv in question, and a picture of Fats .....then when the other side yells Heels!....that side holds up a mix of The UNC "foot" logo, and blown up faces of PJ!

This could be really good. Come on Crazies, gotta be some graphic arts buddies out there some where. ALL THE OTHER STADIUMS ARE DOING IT!!!!

Wheat/"/"/"
08-16-2013, 07:48 AM
9000+ sets of keys jangling every time he touches the ball should be interesting. To say the least.

I'm sure others can be more creative.

Home run here, as a Heel fan I'd find that funny.

CharlestonDevil
08-16-2013, 08:19 AM
I think now that we know there is a chance PJ could play in Cameron this year, it's time to get a running list of possible chants for that game. My God, where do we begin. And I think that with PJ's repeated poor judgement, and Roy's refusal to sit him for the year, that leaves the door wide open to the full gauntlet of taunts. Almost nothing should be off limits.

I say we start out with chanting "Dude, where's my car?" when he is in possession of the ball for the first few minutes of the game and scale it up from there..

I'd love to incorporate "There's Hertz and then, there's not exactly" in there somewhere too. But that doesn't really roll of the tongue cleanly for a chant. I want the audience at home to be able to make these out clearly on TV.

What say you?

"Puff, Puff, PASS"????

UrinalCake
08-16-2013, 08:22 AM
When ucla came to Cameron in I think 1996, there were rumors that Baron Davis had received a car as a recruiting gift. The Blue Devil mascot came out standing inside this cardboard cutout of a car that he held around himself and "drove" all around the court. It was awesome.

Of course, most of the fans were too distracted by the UCLA cheerleaders to notice...

OldPhiKap
08-16-2013, 08:24 AM
A younger, less mature version of myself would have suggested making siren sounds every time he touches the ball.

But now I am older and wiser, so I will do what I do for every Tar Heel: yell "go to Hell!" At the top of my lungs.

As we age, we learn.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-16-2013, 09:02 AM
the band needs to learn to play "I Can't Drive 55"

OldPhiKap
08-16-2013, 09:08 AM
"Baby, you can drive my car
Yes, I'm gonna be a star
Baby, you can drive my car
And Baby, I'm holding"

Beep beep, beep beep yeah.

TKG
08-16-2013, 09:19 AM
I am sure the coaching staff will weigh in on what is appropriate.......

moonpie23
08-16-2013, 09:39 AM
recite his miranda rights......

OldPhiKap
08-16-2013, 09:42 AM
recite his miranda rights......

Or better yet -- remain silent every time he touches the ball. That would be pretty funny.

allenmurray
08-16-2013, 10:02 AM
Shake our heads sadly and quietly in recognition that a once proud state university no longer cares about dignity and honor, but only about wins.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-16-2013, 10:05 AM
I think it would be pretty hilarious if everyone makes the exaggerated sound of inhaling when he's at the line.

jdj4duke
08-16-2013, 10:13 AM
I don't think the new chancellor, Carol Folt, will settle for an explanation from Bubba like, "Coach Roy decided." Her predecessor met his demise over hanky-panky among his direct reports (Ms. Hansbrough) and widespread flouting of academic standards involving athletes.

I wish I could share that optimism. I don't. Ms. Folt will soon find out, if she has not already, who really runs that place, and it is not the chancellor or the academic departments. Of course that's an overstatement, but my guess is that she will let Bubba and the new "team" act independently to show that they have the mettle to do what's needed. If so, then the "sound of one wrist slapping" will be all that's heard.

As for the response in Cameron to PJ's visit, I was thinking that the Blue Devil band-surfing while wearing a car would be great, but Urinalcake, and the '96 Crazies, already staked out that territory. I would love to see a repeat performance for PJ.

I am pretty confident that there will be a multitude of responses, and they will be memorable. Assuming of course that PJ actually shows up.

sagegrouse
08-16-2013, 10:22 AM
I wish I could share that optimism. I don't. Ms. Folt will soon find out, if she has not already, who really runs that place, and it is not the chancellor or the academic departments. Of course that's an overstatement, but my guess is that she will let Bubba and the new "team" act independently to show that they have the mettle to do what's needed. If so, then the "sound of one wrist slapping" will be all that's heard.

As for the response in Cameron to PJ's visit, I was thinking that the Blue Devil band-surfing while wearing a car would be great, but Urinalcake, and the '96 Crazies, already staked out that territory. I would love to see a repeat performance for PJ.

I am pretty confident that there will be a multitude of responses, and they will be memorable. Assuming of course that PJ actually shows up.

I have probably said enough in this thread, but I think Old PJ has worn out his welcome at UNC, and the alumni agree. I doubt that UNC tries to avoid punishment in such a high-profile case, and I think that Folt will use this case to show she's in charge (and tht athletics will not sink the university). But, heck, I am always an optimist.

sagegrouse

devildeac
08-16-2013, 10:37 AM
"Puff, Puff, PASS"????

I was corrected earlier on this one. Remember, we are talking about PJ Hairston here:rolleyes:;).

devildeac
08-16-2013, 10:41 AM
"Baby, you can drive my car
Yes, I'm gonna be a star
Baby, you can drive my car
And Baby, I'm holding"

Beep beep, beep beep yeah.

DUMB needs to learn to play this one, too. Just like they (reportedly) learned to play "Pinball Wizard" when Tommy Burleson and NCSU came to CIS in the early/mid 70s.

devildeac
08-16-2013, 10:42 AM
From PJ's tweet, I can only assume that God wants Carolina to go to Hell too.

Why do you think they put the Divinity School at Duke;)?

Dukeblue91
08-16-2013, 11:08 AM
It Hertz to rent a car! should make for a nice shout out at CIS by the crazies every time he touches the ball. :D

CameronBornAndBred
08-16-2013, 12:26 PM
Why do you think they put the Divinity School at Duke;)?
HA! From my FB status yesterday....
"So I'm sitting here in the tub pondering life, and I wonder. When a Carolina fan walks up to the Pearly Gates, does St. Peter look at the poor soul and say 'I have a petition here from a number of Duke divinity grads you may be interested in.'?"

ricks68
08-16-2013, 03:20 PM
Well, it looks more and more like he and UNC got away with it again, doesn't it?:(

I really feel for the State fans.

ricks

Turtleboy
08-16-2013, 04:16 PM
When ucla came to Cameron in I think 1996, there were rumors that Baron Davis had received a car as a recruiting gift. The Blue Devil mascot came out standing inside this cardboard cutout of a car that he held around himself and "drove" all around the court. It was awesome.

Of course, most of the fans were too distracted by the UCLA cheerleaders to notice...Visitor cheerleaders? Is that still going on?

Olympic Fan
08-16-2013, 05:27 PM
Here's the link (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9571396/pj-hairston-north-carolina-tar-heels-miss-some-games) from a meeting Cunningham had with the UNC journalism faculty.

sagegrouse

Interesting that so many people are taking Cunningham' comments seriously. This is the guy who went on the record after UNC's meeting with the NCAA and confidently predicted there would be no bowl ban. Whoops.

Actually two factors are at work. UNC may want to suspend PG for bad behavior -- the speeding ticket, the drug possession, the underage drinking (which he spread on social media soon after his traffic stop in Durham) and (from what I head) lying to Roy about his rental cars and his relationship to Fats. UNC is free to issue any kind of punishment it sees fits for these issues -- from a penalty of several games to running a few laps or maybe making his tutor write a book report (a favorite punishment in Chapel Hill).

But there is also the question of PJ driving cars rented by Fats -- whether he's a felon or not, it's an impermissible befit and a violation of NCAA rules. The NCAA, not UNC, will ultimately decide his punishment for that transgression (although it's still not clear how many times UNC will admit that he drove a Fats car ... we KNOW he drove a Fats' rental on at least two occasions, when he was ticketed by the police; will UNC try to deny that all he tickets at the Smith Center and at Harrison's apartment were NOT PJ? Will they claim that the only two times he drove a Fats car were the two instances when he was ticketed by police?).

UNC's so-called investigation could determine the NCAA's view of the extent of the violation, but the NCAA -- and not, Roy and not Bubba -- will determine the penalty.

Personally, I will be interested to see if PJ sits any games beyond the NCAA penalty. If not, he gets off scot free for the speeding, the grass, the drinking and the lying.

Chicago 1995
08-16-2013, 06:11 PM
I think now that we know there is a chance PJ could play in Cameron this year, it's time to get a running list of possible chants for that game. My God, where do we begin. And I think that with PJ's repeated poor judgement, and Roy's refusal to sit him for the year, that leaves the door wide open to the full gauntlet of taunts. Almost nothing should be off limits.

I say we start out with chanting "Dude, where's my car?" when he is in possession of the ball for the first few minutes of the game and scale it up from there..

I'd love to incorporate "There's Hertz and then, there's not exactly" in there somewhere too. But that doesn't really roll of the tongue cleanly for a chant. I want the audience at home to be able to make these out clearly on TV.

What say you?

Don't go after PJ.

Go after "The Carolina Way." Go after the sanctimonious hypocrite on the bench for UNC.

PJ is a distraction. Go after the real bad guys

DukieInKansas
08-16-2013, 06:12 PM
9000+ sets of keys jangling every time he touches the ball should be interesting. To say the least.

I'm sure others can be more creative.

And then wait for the Durham newspaper to discuss how only at Duke would so many students have car keys to rattle as happened with the NCState player - Clyde Austin maybe.

I had to admit to having a car key - but the car was in Texas.

Duvall
08-16-2013, 06:14 PM
Don't go after PJ.

Go after "The Carolina Way." Go after the sanctimonious hypocrite on the bench for UNC.

PJ is a distraction. Go after the real bad guys

It's all a distraction. The rest of the world doesn't care about any of this.

Newton_14
08-16-2013, 10:05 PM
Don't go after PJ.

Go after "The Carolina Way." Go after the sanctimonious hypocrite on the bench for UNC.

PJ is a distraction. Go after the real bad guys
I agree with you on this one. The chants should be about Roy, Bubba, Holden, and the adults over there that created and managed the fake major and fake classes to keep their athlete's eligible. That should be the real story here.


And then wait for the Durham newspaper to discuss how only at Duke would so many students have car keys to rattle as happened with the NCState player - Clyde Austin maybe.


Or, Shane Ryan will be in attendance and will swear to the world that the students were really chanting about one of PJ's close relatives that passed away or is terminally ill or something like he did last year with the Tyler Lewis "Past your bedtime" cheer....

BlueDevilBrowns
08-27-2013, 09:53 AM
Here's a link to PJ's Comments:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2013/08/hairston-08-27

CameronBornAndBred
08-27-2013, 10:46 AM
Here's a link to PJ's Comments:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2013/08/hairston-08-27

“I just have to prepare myself mentally,” he said. “Just try to keep myself around positive people for the most part, then just having someone in my ear talking to me and giving me advice. But other than that, I’ve just been trying to stay positive.”
Ummm, exactly what kind of advice? Like "Hey, PJ, you just got in a ton of trouble, so don't do anything stupid like get yourself pulled over going 90mph"?

BlueDevilBrowns
08-27-2013, 11:02 AM
Ummm, exactly what kind of advice? Like "Hey, PJ, you just got in a ton of trouble, so don't do anything stupid like get yourself pulled over going 90mph"?

Yeah, that quote struck me as odd, too. I think what he was trying to say was he's leaving his former "advisors" behind and focusing on a new, more law-abiding, set of friends.

The other thing about his comments that seemed "off" to me was he never once said "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" or even "I did some stupid stuff". It's strange, because I assume the interview and/or resulting article was approved by UNC beforehand.

This was PJ's opportunity to tell the Faithful that "I'm sorry, please forgive, now let's move on!" and everyone(meaning UNC Fanbase), of course, would have. But yet, it's still hanging out there.

Again, very strange to me.

CDu
08-27-2013, 11:55 AM
Yeah, that quote struck me as odd, too. I think what he was trying to say was he's leaving his former "advisors" behind and focusing on a new, more law-abiding, set of friends.

The other thing about his comments that seemed "off" to me was he never once said "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" or even "I did some stupid stuff". It's strange, because I assume the interview and/or resulting article was approved by UNC beforehand.

This was PJ's opportunity to tell the Faithful that "I'm sorry, please forgive, now let's move on!" and everyone(meaning UNC Fanbase), of course, would have. But yet, it's still hanging out there.

Again, very strange to me.

It is not uncommon for athletes to avoid taking responsibility for their actions - especially if they don't really feel what they did was wrong (and I suspect that this is the case with Hairston). It is also not uncommon for young people to not accept responsibility for their actions. Hairston qualifies on both counts.

It is disappointing that the university did not push for an apology, although the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if they may be falling prey to their own self interest in that regard as well.

UrinalCake
08-27-2013, 12:39 PM
So... Hairston gets to choose how many games he sits out? He must think the NCAA is like an AFAM class, where you just give yourself whatever grade you feel you earned.

FerryFor50
08-27-2013, 02:08 PM
Sounds like PJ has really learned his lesson. Let him play!

In the meantime, let's make sure Johnny Manziel never suits up for A&M again...

davekay1971
08-27-2013, 03:08 PM
Sounds like PJ has really learned his lesson. Let him play!

In the meantime, let's make sure Johnny Manziel never suits up for A&M again...

Johnny Manziel's transgression was far more dire, in the eyes of the NCAA, than any of the transgressions of PJ Hairston, or, for that matter, anybody in that esteemed institution of higher learning and integrity in Chapa Heeya: Johnny Manziel tried to make some money off of his name, when we all know that only the NCAA and member schools are allowed to make money off his name. All PJ Hairston did was break laws, receive impermissible benefits, and show a blatant lack of understanding of the concept of "act right". And all UNC did was turn their entire academic system into a fraud to keep athletes eligible.

Now, if PJ had tried to sell an autograph...the NCAA would be on it like white on rice.

gumbomoop
08-27-2013, 08:25 PM
The first rule about being in a hole is, stop digging. The unwitting humor in PJ's words, "for the most part," is delicious. The very word "unwitting" is dicey here, for it's as if he's consciously acknowledging that he keeps screwing up - some, but not a whole lot - and then asking forgiveness for the very fact of said acknowledgment.

Perhaps it's unfair to expect PJ to choose his public words very carefully. I almost feel sorry for him. Don't know whether he deserves a bit more pity than scorn right now. Really not sure.

Tappan Zee Devil
08-27-2013, 08:44 PM
The first rule about being in a hole is, stop digging. The unwitting humor in PJ's words, "for the most part," is delicious. The very word "unwitting" is dicey here, for it's as if he's consciously acknowledging that he keeps screwing up - some, but not a whole lot - and then asking forgiveness for the very fact of said acknowledgment.

Perhaps it's unfair to expect PJ to choose his public words very carefully. I almost feel sorry for him. Don't know whether he deserves a bit more pity than scorn right now. Really not sure.

Scorn -No question

well, on the other hand, you do hope people learn from their mistakes, but still ...

Wander
08-27-2013, 09:10 PM
Johnny Manziel tried to make some money off of his name, when we all know that only the NCAA and member schools are allowed to make money off his name. All PJ Hairston did was break laws, receive impermissible benefits, and show a blatant lack of understanding of the concept of "act right".

Why even mention PJ Hairston receiving impermissible benefits if you're going to be dismissive about Manziel's transgressions? Seems like basically the same thing to me.

allenmurray
08-28-2013, 10:54 AM
Why even mention PJ Hairston receiving impermissible benefits if you're going to be dismissive about Manziel's transgressions? Seems like basically the same thing to me.

Manziel didn't have a gun and ammunition simultaneously with drugs, nor did he endanger anyone's life by driving 90+ miles per hour on an interstate highway during rush our, so there's that.

Wander
08-28-2013, 10:57 AM
Manziel didn't have a gun and ammunition simultaneously with drugs, nor did he endanger anyone's life by driving 90+ miles per hour on an interstate highway during rush our, so there's that.

I agree, I'm just talking about the NCAA impermissible benefit stuff (autographs vs car).

miramar
08-28-2013, 12:15 PM
At least he finished his homework before going out to play ball.

At UNC I think that counts as a major turnaround.

chaosmage
08-28-2013, 03:10 PM
Going to a class that assigns homework, and having a professor that shows up is a big turnaround. Actually grading and putting a standard to that homework would be nothing short of amazing.

In other words, the stuff that normal, underpaid, dedicated teachers do every day.

ncexnyc
08-28-2013, 05:57 PM
I agree, I'm just talking about the NCAA impermissible benefit stuff (autographs vs car).
I think the difference is, one impermissible benefit was for a lone person, while the other appears to be part of an ongoing scheme.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-28-2013, 06:06 PM
Given the Manziel punishment, I expect PJ to be suspended til the first TV timeout.

Bah.

DukieInKansas
08-28-2013, 06:32 PM
Given the Manziel punishment, I expect PJ to be suspended til the first TV timeout.

Bah.

That long? Maybe just through the introductions.

OldPhiKap
08-28-2013, 07:15 PM
Given the Manziel punishment, I expect PJ to be suspended til the first TV timeout.

Bah.

They should at leat make it to Roy's first called time out, which will be after the opponent's 14-3 run is already over.

Papa John
08-30-2013, 07:30 AM
Why even mention PJ Hairston receiving impermissible benefits if you're going to be dismissive about Manziel's transgressions? Seems like basically the same thing to me.

Perhaps you need to check the batteries in your sarcasm detector? I'm pretty sure that davekay1971's post was dripping with sarcasm, taking shots at Manziel, Hairston, and the NCAA. At least that's how I read it...

ChillinDuke
08-30-2013, 12:24 PM
They should at leat make it to Roy's first called time out...

So, a 7 game suspension?

- Chillin

diablesseblu
09-03-2013, 04:18 PM
From WRAL:

"Rowan County District Judge Kevin Eddinger accepted the plea Tuesday for driving 75 mph in a 65 mph zone from attorney T. Gregory Jones. Hairston, who didn't attend the hearing, was required to pay a $40 fine and court costs.

Hairston was cited for driving 93 mph on Interstate 85 on July 28. The school indefinitely suspended the basketball star hours later."

Thank you Judge Eddinger, UNC '76. :rolleyes:

Kedsy
09-03-2013, 04:36 PM
From WRAL:

"Rowan County District Judge Kevin Eddinger accepted the plea Tuesday for driving 75 mph in a 65 mph zone from attorney T. Gregory Jones. Hairston, who didn't attend the hearing, was required to pay a $40 fine and court costs.

Hairston was cited for driving 93 mph on Interstate 85 on July 28. The school indefinitely suspended the basketball star hours later."

Thank you Judge Eddinger, UNC '76. :rolleyes:

It's really the District Attorney who proposed or accepted the plea deal that should be "thanked" in this case, rather than the judge, who merely approved the settlement between the parties.

diablesseblu
09-03-2013, 05:12 PM
It's really the District Attorney who proposed or accepted the plea deal that should be "thanked" in this case, rather than the judge, who merely approved the settlement between the parties.


Oh, that's covered also. According to "The Salisbury Post" (January 29, 2012), Ms. Brandy Cook , the DA, said in an interview:


"Do you follow any sports, which teams? I follow college football and basketball in general. Teams I pull for are always Catawba and UNC."


Haven't been over to Pack Pride, but I'm certain they've already reported this. ;)

grit74
09-03-2013, 05:39 PM
Oh, that's covered also. According to "The Salisbury Post" (January 29, 2012), Ms. Brandy Cook , the DA, said in an interview:


"Do you follow any sports, which teams? I follow college football and basketball in general. Teams I pull for are always Catawba and UNC."


Haven't been over to Pack Pride, but I'm certain they've already reported this. ;)

So, Hairston had a ticket in Durham in May, 54 in a 45, which was probably written to keep it under 10mph over the limit which means no points(or maybe 2 for a moving violation). The plea deal today means he doesn't lose his license and avoids points for >15 over and points for reckless driving.

And, of course, he had the dope charges dropped.

And of these judgments might be a reasonable outcome. But getting all of them is a jackpot.

SilkyJ
09-03-2013, 06:08 PM
Meh. A couple tickets reduced and a first time offender's slap on the wrist for the weed. Not a big deal in my book...not the droids we're looking for. The rentals themselves and the connections to FaTz on the otherhand, those are the droids we're looking for.

Though to be honest, I hope PJ has as much time as possible to gel with his teammates before the first Duke game so there's no whining from chapa heeyah when we lay the smackdown on them. I am not scared of UNC in the least this year. They are an 8 seed with PJ and an NIT team without him.

wilko
09-03-2013, 07:22 PM
Though to be honest, I hope PJ has as much time as possible to gel with his teammates before the first Duke game so there's no whining from chapa heeyah when we lay the smackdown on them. I am not scared of UNC in the least this year. They are an 8 seed with PJ and an NIT team without him.

The best UNC fan is a quiet humble one. Nothing make them more humble than the prospect of getting "L". The prospect of having a player sit for the Duke game... well that makes them leave the building and I can live with that outcome.

BD80
09-03-2013, 08:54 PM
The best UNC fan is a quiet humble one. Nothing make them more humble than the prospect of getting "L". The prospect of having a player sit for the Duke game... well that makes them leave the building and I can live with that outcome.

Ooh, that's one of those Zen things isn't it? If a tar heel fan leaves the dean dome without making a sound, was he ever there?

OldPhiKap
09-03-2013, 09:01 PM
Ooh, that's one of those Zen things isn't it? If a tar heel fan leaves the dean dome without making a sound, was he ever there?

They pump in sound to compensate. Sad, but true.

Merlindevildog91
09-03-2013, 09:01 PM
The best UNC fan is a quiet humble one.

Really? They exist? I've never had the pleasure to meet one, even after they suffered a big loss.

OldPhiKap
09-03-2013, 10:46 PM
They exist?

The Carolina Mascot should be a Jackalope or a Snipe.

moonpie23
09-03-2013, 10:52 PM
i'm trying to think of a reason why ANY of us thought this would be any different...

the network of alums just aint gonna have roy calling them up....

OldPhiKap
09-03-2013, 11:11 PM
i'm trying to think of a reason why ANY of us thought this would be any different...

the network of alums just aint gonna have roy calling them up....


Meh. A couple tickets reduced and a first time offender's slap on the wrist for the weed. Not a big deal in my book...not the droids we're looking for. The rentals themselves and the connections to FaTz on the otherhand, those are the droids we're looking for.

My gut agrees 100% with Moonpie. But my lawyer brain agrees that, when I take off my Duke glasses, PJ is getting treated like most folks would (that had the benefit of good counsel). And at the end of the day, the 800 lb gorilla in the room is not a few moving violations and a bit of weed. It is whether there are NCAA violations. And the folks in Indianapolis ain't gonna do squat.

The problem is not the local legal system. It is that the NCAA is a feckless, worthless, toothless, cajonesless, worthless, spineless, senseless, worthless, powerless, proportionless, worthless, badonkadonkless, soulless, mostinterstingmanintheworldless, worthless, useless institution since the formation of the International Mayonnaise Homogenization Association (Limited) was formed.

diablesseblu
09-03-2013, 11:15 PM
It's really the District Attorney who proposed or accepted the plea deal that should be "thanked" in this case, rather than the judge, who merely approved the settlement between the parties.

And, unlike most speeding cases, PJ's lawyer is not local. His attorney, T. Gregory Jones (UNC '91) is from Wilmington. The UNC alums are really all pulling together. ;-)

-jk
09-03-2013, 11:34 PM
Alas!, a half dozen "youthful indiscretions" at the hands of North Carolina's finest, and I never could get more than 8 pled off, even with the help of J Marin, Esq. Obviously I had the wrong school's alumnus on my side!

-jk

grit74
09-04-2013, 08:57 AM
And, unlike most speeding cases, PJ's lawyer is not local. His attorney, T. Gregory Jones (UNC '91) is from Wilmington. The UNC alums are really all pulling together. ;-)

There is a lawyer named T. Gregory Jones in Salisbury...

Duke79UNLV77
09-04-2013, 10:47 AM
I disagree with the DBR front page suggestion that the treatment P.J. received for driving 93 is the same as what courts do for most people. Coincidentally, I also was ticketed for driving 93 during my time in NC. At college age and with no prior record at all (unlike P.J.), the normal rule was that my license would be suspended for a year, but with a lawyer's help I got court permission to drive to and from school. The P.J. deal was certainly never on the table for me.

I do agree with DBR that the big issue is the rental cars. I can't fathom why that is not drawing active NCAA interest.

diablesseblu
09-04-2013, 03:47 PM
There is a lawyer named T. Gregory Jones in Salisbury...


That's correct. Mr. Jones works for a Salisbury firm, but he lives in Wilmington. Maybe he's the UNC alum on retainer for all I-85 infractions? ;)

FerryFor50
09-04-2013, 04:02 PM
That's correct. Mr. Jones works for a Salisbury firm, but he lives in Wilmington. Maybe he's the UNC alum on retainer for all I-85 infractions? ;)

Wilmington to Salisbury? Wouldn't that be I-40? :p

devildeac
09-04-2013, 04:13 PM
Wilmington to Salisbury? Wouldn't that be I-40? :p

Most likely I-40 to Greensboro and then I-85 to Salisbury.

Olympic Fan
09-04-2013, 04:15 PM
Meh. A couple tickets reduced and a first time offender's slap on the wrist for the weed..

Mychal Faulcon, a passenger in the car with PJ, got a slap on the wrist for the weed -- a short probation and a handful of hours of community service. But PJ, who was driving the car rented by the felon, got ... nothing. All charges dismissed before even going to trial.

And the latest speeding ticket -- originally 93 mph -- was his second speeding ticket in a 90-day period. That deserved a plead-down to a lessor charge?

77devil
09-04-2013, 07:14 PM
Mychal Faulcon, a passenger in the car with PJ, got a slap on the wrist for the weed -- a short probation and a handful of hours of community service. But PJ, who was driving the car rented by the felon, got ... nothing. All charges dismissed before even going to trial.

And the latest speeding ticket -- originally 93 mph -- was his second speeding ticket in a 90-day period. That deserved a plead-down to a lessor charge?

Last time we heard from Faulcon's Mother she was going to reveal the untold aspects of the story. Nothing but silence since. I smell a payoff.

Duvall
09-04-2013, 07:23 PM
Last time we heard from Faulcon's Mother she was going to reveal the untold aspects of the story. Nothing but silence since. I smell a payoff.

That definitely sounds more plausible than a son convincing his mother not to air his friend's dirty laundry in the press.

SilkyJ
09-04-2013, 10:52 PM
Mychal Faulcon, a passenger in the car with PJ, got a slap on the wrist for the weed -- a short probation and a handful of hours of community service. But PJ, who was driving the car rented by the felon, got ... nothing. All charges dismissed before even going to trial.

And the latest speeding ticket -- originally 93 mph -- was his second speeding ticket in a 90-day period. That deserved a plead-down to a lessor charge?

Fair enough. He didn't get squat, but I still don't think its a big deal in and of itself, but I still don't think its a big deal. Getting a couple tickets reduced and a weed charge dismissed just isn't a huge deal. Did it take a good lawyer? Probably. I'd hire one too. I'm much more interested in the FaTz connection, that's my point.

moonpie23
09-04-2013, 11:11 PM
I'm much more interested in the FaTz connection, that's my point.

unfortunately, we can be interested in it till the cows come home, no one else is....

Reilly
09-05-2013, 07:36 AM
Last time we heard from Faulcon's Mother she was going to reveal the untold aspects of the story. Nothing but silence since. I smell a payoff.

Maybe a DBR fundraiser for the currently-silent mother to tell her story?

DukieInKansas
09-05-2013, 10:34 AM
Maybe a DBR fundraiser for the currently-silent mother to tell her story?

I'm sure PackPride would want to chip in, too. ;-)

moonpie23
09-26-2013, 04:27 PM
I got bettah! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYO0joolR0)


http://www.wralsportsfan.com/hairston-returns-to-practice-issues-apology/12929097/

BD80
09-26-2013, 05:03 PM
I got bettah! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYO0joolR0)


http://www.wralsportsfan.com/hairston-returns-to-practice-issues-apology/12929097/

Williams said Hairston has earned his way back to practice,

How? By not getting arrested this month?

devildeac
09-26-2013, 05:53 PM
Williams said Hairston has earned his way back to practice,

How? By not getting arrested this month?

Geez, rough crowd here;). And BTW, it's been at least two months. Hasn't it?

COYS
09-26-2013, 08:57 PM
Geez, rough crowd here;). And BTW, it's been at least two months. Hasn't it?

Yeah . . . Look at all those games he's missed! PJ is definitely someone who has done his time.

Plus, Roy won't want potential recruits to think that UNC is ruled by a draconian dictator. After all, it's no big deal. PJ just got arrested, got multiple speeding tickets, "borrowed" nice cars from an ex-con, and lied to his coach about it. I mean, can't a guy have a little fun? . . . Especially now that the players actually have to go to class (theoretically)!

Scorp4me
09-26-2013, 09:25 PM
Mychal Faulcon, a passenger in the car with PJ, got a slap on the wrist for the weed -- a short probation and a handful of hours of community service. But PJ, who was driving the car rented by the felon, got ... nothing. All charges dismissed before even going to trial.

And the latest speeding ticket -- originally 93 mph -- was his second speeding ticket in a 90-day period. That deserved a plead-down to a lessor charge?

Olympic Fan hit the nail on the head. The next time this kid does something stupid and ends up killing someone it will be on those that worked so hard to get this fine upstanding Carolina student off basically scott free! This was a black eye for the university, but not dealing with it and even facilitating this kind of behavior...when it happens will make the university look like even more of a joke than they are now.

Unfortunately the same can be said of our society as a whole where those that break the law are simply not punished with prevention in mind and even when the worst happens are not punished adequately. Oh if only I were in charge, I guarantee we wouldn't have as many law breakers...one way or the other.

On the other hand fortunately when it happens in this case UNC will look bad so there is a silver lining, however small.

PSurprise
09-26-2013, 09:32 PM
On the other hand fortunately when it happens in this case UNC will look bad so there is a silver lining, however small.

If something like what I think you mean happened, there is absolutely no silver lining.

Dr. Rosenrosen
09-27-2013, 08:41 AM
Aw shucks, Roy. Good to see you're covering your butt by getting PJ back in the flow. That way you can drop him back into the lineup as soon as the powers that be let you know they're sure that the NCAA won't penalize you if PJ actually appears in any games.

devildeac
09-27-2013, 10:21 AM
Well, he has done a lot of running according to today's Raleigh N&O:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/09/26/3230324/roy-williams-not-sure-how-many.html

devildeac
09-27-2013, 10:25 AM
Plus, he's not allowed to choose where the team eats either according to the editorial in the N&O today also:o:eek: :

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/09/26/3230540/decock-serious-consequences-still.html

"Still, making Hairston run, not letting him pick where the team has dinner and taking him off the cover of the media guide do not exactly measure up to the “serious consequences” Williams promised earlier this summer in response to Hairston’s string of traffic offenses – two incurred in cars rented by someone else, Hadyn “Fats” Thomas."

I dunno. Sounds like pretty damned "serious consequences" to me:rolleyes:.

BD80
09-27-2013, 10:51 AM
Plus, he's not allowed to choose where the team eats either according to the editorial in the N&O today also:o:eek: :

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/09/26/3230540/decock-serious-consequences-still.html ...

When you've got the munchies, do you really care where you go eat?

UrinalCake
09-27-2013, 11:14 AM
Well, he has done a lot of running according to today's Raleigh N&O:

He sure has - running from the media, running from the police, running from the NCAA, etc.

OldPhiKap
09-27-2013, 12:31 PM
He sure has - running from the media, running from the police, running from the NCAA, etc.



Well I'm running, police on my back
I've been hiding, police on my back
There was a shooting, police on my back
And the victim well he won't come back

I've been running Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
Runnin' Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
What have I done? What have I done?

Yes, I'm running down the railway track
Could you help me? Police on my back
They will catch me if I dare drop back
Won't you give me all the speed I lack

I've been running, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
Runnin' Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
What have I done? What have I done?

I'm running
I'm running
I keep running

Yes I'm running down the railway track
Could you help me? Police on my back
They will catch me if I dare drop back
Won't you help me find the speed I lack

I've been running Monday', Tuesday, Wednesday
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
Runnin' Monday, Tuesday,Wednesday
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
What have I done? What have I done?

'Cos I'm running
(Police on my back)
Hiding
(Police on my back)
Running
(Police on my back)
Hiding
(Police on my back)

I'm running down the railway track
Could you help me? Police on my back
They will catch me if I dare drop back
They will kill me for the speed I lack
I've been running, I've been running




-- The Clash

brevity
09-27-2013, 05:19 PM
When you've got the munchies, do you really care where you go eat?

You were saying?

3600

White Castle... what you crave*.

*White Castle and its subsidiaries do not endorse the use of any illegal substances and are not affiliated with the 2004 film Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle. Furthermore, we do not have a location in Cherry Hill, New Jersey (or Chapel Hill, North Carolina for that matter). We recommend motorists to obey all laws when traveling to our locations. We have discontinued food shipment to non-service areas. Kennedy Meeks, please stop asking.

jv001
09-28-2013, 08:37 AM
Olympic Fan hit the nail on the head. The next time this kid does something stupid and ends up killing someone it will be on those that worked so hard to get this fine upstanding Carolina student off basically scott free! This was a black eye for the university, but not dealing with it and even facilitating this kind of behavior...when it happens will make the university look like even more of a joke than they are now.

Unfortunately the same can be said of our society as a whole where those that break the law are simply not punished with prevention in mind and even when the worst happens are not punished adequately. Oh if only I were in charge, I guarantee we wouldn't have as many law breakers...one way or the other.

On the other hand fortunately when it happens in this case UNC will look bad so there is a silver lining, however small.

I can imagine how pj will carry himself if he makes it in the pros. Better get him a good lawyer. This guy just doesn't get it. Glad he's at unc and not Duke. GoDuke!

BD80
09-28-2013, 11:28 AM
I can imagine how pj will carry himself if he makes it in the pros. Better get him a good lawyer. This guy just doesn't get it. Glad he's at unc and not Duke. GoDuke!

Golly no! Won't he be worried that his coach will make him get up early and run? Or not let him pick the restaurant when the team eats together?

No, ol' roy has been so tough on PJ that we're concerned about PTSD not recidivism.

Devil549
09-29-2013, 08:28 PM
As I told one of my UNC friends the "Carolina Way" is now the Carolina LOOK the OTHER Way".....he had to laugh at that one!!!!!!

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 09:28 AM
I stumbled across this on another message board...instagram.com/p/e5qYwwiGPb/

That link helped me to remember that PJ is just a young guy. We are all so far removed from the real situation that it's easy to fool ourselves into thinking we know what's really going on...and we think we know how he should be "punished"..when all we really know is what we read from less than accurate sources much of the time.

This much is clear to me. Coach Roy Williams knows more about the facts than we do and is not going to give up on PJ as a player or person because he made a series of youthful mistakes. Not at this point, with what he seems to know.

And I support that 100%.

And I also believe coach K and Duke fans would not give up on a Duke player should one ever face a similar situation, nor should they.
We can have some fun cracking one liners, and debate how coach K might have handled it differently, but I don't think coach K, like coach Williams, would give up on one of his players just because he stressed the program with these sort of mistakes. That would be selfish, and I think both are comfortable enough in their positions to do what they think is best for the player first.

The cynical among us are ready to throw this kid to the wolves,(pun intended), because of some stupid fan hate. They have not shown the capacity to look at this kid in human terms, and that's so short sighted. There are real consequences to be considered regarding how he's disciplined and this kids life path.

PJ's a young, fun loving guy that has a bright future. He's being taught a valuable life lesson, in public, and from the apology he has issued, he finally seems to grasp just how close he has come to ruining that promising future.

Coaches lead and develop players. They teach. That's what they do.

What would have been a greater tragedy to this whole mess is a coach overreacting to negative media and to his players self inflicted, immature mistakes and not giving him some guidance so that he can move ahead with his life and potential professional career better prepared to understand the seriousness of his choices.

Say what you guys want, it's all about winning yada yada... but I say coach Williams is showing why he's a great coach and why he's widely respected by his players with how he's handled this situation so far.

UrinalCake
10-01-2013, 09:50 AM
Wheat, you are entitled to your opinion but I don't agree at all. Roy waited until the THIRD time PJ screwed up (that we know about) before doing anything - the first speeding ticket in a rental car, the checkpoint arrest with drugs and a gun also in a rental car, and the later speeding ticket. That doesn't even address the parking tickets, the mouth guards, letting his buddies play XBox in the players lounge, or the fact that he admitted to police that he does marijuana recreationally. Roy did absolutely nothing for months until he simply had no choice. And now PJ is back practicing with his teammates, so there still have been virtually zero consequences for his actions other than extra running and not getting to choose where to eat.

There's a difference between not giving up on a kid and letting him get away with whatever he wants. Roy has chosen the latter. PJ has put himself above his teammates, putting in jeopardy the team's chances at winning and therefore harming those that work just as hard as him while keeping their noses clean, yet he is being told he is the victim. Any opinions on what Coach K would have done in a similar situation is of course only speculation, but all evidence suggests that he would have suspended the player much, much earlier and made him earn his way back onto the team.

wilko
10-01-2013, 09:58 AM
I stumbled across this on another message board...instagram.com/p/e5qYwwiGPb/

That link helped me to remember that PJ is just a young guy. We are all so far removed from the real situation that it's easy to fool ourselves into thinking we know what's really going on...and we think we know how he should be "punished"..when all we really know is what we read from less than accurate sources much of the time.

This much is clear to me. Coach Roy Williams knows more about the facts than we do and is not going to give up on PJ as a player or person because he made a series of youthful mistakes. Not at this point, with what he seems to know.

And I support that 100%.

And I also believe coach K and Duke fans would not give up on a Duke player should one ever face a similar situation, nor should they.
We can have some fun cracking one liners, and debate how coach K might have handled it differently, but I don't think coach K, like coach Williams, would give up on one of his players just because he stressed the program with these sort of mistakes. That would be selfish, and I think both are comfortable enough in their positions to do what they think is best for the player first.

The cynical among us are ready to throw this kid to the wolves,(pun intended), because of some stupid fan hate. They have not shown the capacity to look at this kid in human terms, and that's so short sighted. There are real consequences to be considered regarding how he's disciplined and this kids life path.

PJ's a young, fun loving guy that has a bright future. He's being taught a valuable life lesson, in public, and from the apology he has issued, he finally seems to grasp just how close he has come to ruining that promising future.

Coaches lead and develop players. They teach. That's what they do.

What would have been a greater tragedy to this whole mess is a coach overreacting to negative media and to his players self inflicted, immature mistakes and not giving him some guidance so that he can move ahead with his life and potential professional career better prepared to understand the seriousness of his choices.

Say what you guys want, it's all about winning yada yada... but I say coach Williams is showing why he's a great coach and why he's widely respected by his players with how he's handled this situation so far.


Greg Newton -
He had some issues and clashed with K back in the day. Very good player. If memory serves (and often it misses the mark) K and this guy clashed. I think Duke could have won a few more games one yr, but he chose to prove a point over wins.

SupaDave
10-01-2013, 10:05 AM
I hope Roy makes PJ a captain just so we can see somebody's head explode. :cool:

Duvall
10-01-2013, 10:21 AM
I stumbled across this on another message board...instagram.com/p/e5qYwwiGPb/

That link helped me to remember that PJ is just a young guy. We are all so far removed from the real situation that it's easy to fool ourselves into thinking we know what's really going on...and we think we know how he should be "punished"..when all we really know is what we read from less than accurate sources much of the time.

This much is clear to me. Coach Roy Williams knows more about the facts than we do and is not going to give up on PJ as a player or person because he made a series of youthful mistakes. Not at this point, with what he seems to know.

And I support that 100%.

And I also believe coach K and Duke fans would not give up on a Duke player should one ever face a similar situation, nor should they.
We can have some fun cracking one liners, and debate how coach K might have handled it differently, but I don't think coach K, like coach Williams, would give up on one of his players just because he stressed the program with these sort of mistakes. That would be selfish, and I think both are comfortable enough in their positions to do what they think is best for the player first.

The cynical among us are ready to throw this kid to the wolves,(pun intended), because of some stupid fan hate. They have not shown the capacity to look at this kid in human terms, and that's so short sighted. There are real consequences to be considered regarding how he's disciplined and this kids life path.

PJ's a young, fun loving guy that has a bright future. He's being taught a valuable life lesson, in public, and from the apology he has issued, he finally seems to grasp just how close he has come to ruining that promising future.

Coaches lead and develop players. They teach. That's what they do.

What would have been a greater tragedy to this whole mess is a coach overreacting to negative media and to his players self inflicted, immature mistakes and not giving him some guidance so that he can move ahead with his life and potential professional career better prepared to understand the seriousness of his choices.

Say what you guys want, it's all about winning yada yada... but I say coach Williams is showing why he's a great coach and why he's widely respected by his players with how he's handled this situation so far.

That's all great. Shame it didn't work out that way for Will Graves.

I guess Roy just doesn't see the same "potential" in players without NBA talent.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 11:13 AM
That's all great. Shame it didn't work out that way for Will Graves.

I guess Roy just doesn't see the same "potential" in players without NBA talent.

Will Graves used up his three strikes and Roy's patience, he didn't respond after Roy issued "the talk".

PJ has responded positively to his mistakes and not reached that point with Roy...yet.

Matches
10-01-2013, 11:14 AM
Greg Newton -
He had some issues and clashed with K back in the day. Very good player. If memory serves (and often it misses the mark) K and this guy clashed. I think Duke could have won a few more games one yr, but he chose to prove a point over wins.

Newton was reinstated to the team after being suspended from school for academic dishonesty, if memory serves. K gave him a second chance, as he's done with a fair number of players over the years.

K did eventually bench Newton during his senior season, but it was for attitude and performance issues. I agree with you that it's an example of K making a larger point, arguably at the expense of on-court performance, but I don't think it's a one-to-one analogue for the PJ situation.

allenmurray
10-01-2013, 01:59 PM
PJ's a young, fun loving guy that has a bright future. He's being taught a valuable life lesson, in public, and from the apology he has issued, he finally seems to grasp just how close he has come to ruining that promising future.

Coaches lead and develop players. They teach. That's what they do.

Leaving PJ's poor judgment out of it; let's look at William's judgment. This kid was in a car not registered to him with drugs and a gun. Now Williams has gone public with the statement ht part of PJ's punishment will be not being allowed to choose where the team eats its post-game meals. Could a coach be more tone-deaf?

Li_Duke
10-01-2013, 02:08 PM
Will Graves used up his three strikes and Roy's patience, he didn't respond after Roy issued "the talk".

PJ has responded positively to his mistakes and not reached that point with Roy...yet.

I recall you making a similar post on this board just before PJ was cited for speeding a couple months ago.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 03:31 PM
Leaving PJ's poor judgment out of it; let's look at William's judgment. This kid was in a car not registered to him with drugs and a gun. Now Williams has gone public with the statement ht part of PJ's punishment will be not being allowed to choose where the team eats its post-game meals. Could a coach be more tone-deaf?

That's a pretty selective view of Roy's comment.

Roy's point was, among other things, PJ has been stripped of any upperclassman leadership role on the team and the "perks" that usually come with it. The meal part is just an insignificant side note.

And I'll add that it's unlikely the extra running he placed on PJ was about the running at all, it's clear to me that it was a test about PJ's attitude and commitment.

PJ is doing what he needs to do to move forward after the "summer of dumb", and he knows he's on a very short leash.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 03:54 PM
I recall you making a similar post on this board just before PJ was cited for speeding a couple months ago.

Maybe, don't recall.

Do coaches anywhere discipline kids who get speeding tickets? Would they even know about one? I doubt Roy or anyone at UNC even knew about the first speeding ticket.

I'd say that last speeding ticket was considered his second strike after the traffic stop to Roy. And it got him suspended on the spot. That happened before Roy had a chance to completely gather his information from the traffic stop and suspend him, which was very likely to happen, IMO.

3 strikes and you're out. There is no more room for error on PJ's part.

Duvall
10-01-2013, 04:00 PM
Maybe, don't recall.

Do coaches anywhere discipline kids who get speeding tickets? Would they even know about one? I doubt Roy or anyone at UNC even knew about the first speeding ticket.

You mean the speeding ticket that was in all the papers?

Roy announced his decision *last week*. He had plenty of time to learn all about Hairston's actions - if he wanted.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 04:29 PM
You mean the speeding ticket that was in all the papers?

Roy announced his decision *last week*. He had plenty of time to learn all about Hairston's actions - if he wanted.

That first speeding ticket from the spring was not revealed until after the summer traffic stop incident when the Pack crowd got involved, as I recall.

Correct me if I am wrong about that.

dpslaw
10-01-2013, 04:35 PM
That first speeding ticket from the spring was not revealed until after the summer traffic stop incident when the Pack crowd got involved, as I recall.

Correct me if I am wrong about that.

So it doesn't count as a strike unless Roy has contemporaneous notice?

Duvall
10-01-2013, 04:52 PM
That first speeding ticket from the spring was not revealed until after the summer traffic stop incident when the Pack crowd got involved, as I recall.

Correct me if I am wrong about that.

Given the extensive reporting by every media outlet not affiliated with ESPN, I'm not sure why "the Pack crowd" is relevant. (Unless you're trying to change the subject. Again.) But more importantly, how could that possibly be relevant to a decision that Williams announced last week?

It's pretty clear at this point that Hairston is going to get enough strikes to keep him on the team as long as he's needed. Will Graves ran out of strikes in 2009 when UNC didn't need him at all, was invited back to the team when UNC needed players in 2010, and then was dismissed after that season when UNC didn't need him any more. That's just how Roy does business, even if you refuse to see it.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 06:12 PM
Given the extensive reporting by every media outlet not affiliated with ESPN, I'm not sure why "the Pack crowd" is relevant. (Unless you're trying to change the subject. Again.) But more importantly, how could that possibly be relevant to a decision that Williams announced last week?

It's pretty clear at this point that Hairston is going to get enough strikes to keep him on the team as long as he's needed. Will Graves ran out of strikes in 2009 when UNC didn't need him at all, was invited back to the team when UNC needed players in 2010, and then was dismissed after that season when UNC didn't need him any more. That's just how Roy does business, even if you refuse to see it.

My understanding of the time line is the pack crowd uncovered the existence of the first ticket from the spring, after the Durham traffic stop. No-one was reporting on it prior to that, because to my knowledge, nobody knew about that ticket until then.

While Roy was digesting his discipline options after the circumstances of the Durham traffic stop, and the spring ticket that was revealed right after the stop, PJ went out and got the second ticket. And that got him immediately suspended.

It's really not that complicated.

Will Graves was a big loss and expected to be a starter and key contributor in the '10-'11 season. He would have been the teams best outside shooter. His dismissal left UNC with only 10 scholarship players.

He was not some throw away player you'd like to make him out to be.

SilkyJ
10-01-2013, 06:30 PM
Maybe, don't recall.

Do coaches anywhere discipline kids who get speeding tickets? Would they even know about one? I doubt Roy or anyone at UNC even knew about the first speeding ticket..

Of course they don't get suspended for speeding. That'd be ridiculous. BUT when you are driving a car RENTED BY A FELON (multiple felon..if thats the right phrase), then it becomes different. That type of context changes things dramatically.

I'd also add that a speeding ticket, especially if its a bad one (like say doing 90-100?) could be worthy of discipline if was a "last straw" scenario where a player is showing reckless behavior, bad judgement, and embarrassing the program. Roy certainly would agree with me on that one.



I'd say that last speeding ticket was considered his second strike after the traffic stop to Roy. And it got him suspended on the spot. That happened before Roy had a chance to completely gather his information from the traffic stop and suspend him, which was very likely to happen, IMO.

3 strikes and you're out. There is no more room for error on PJ's part.

Well those are light, light blue glasses you are wearing my friend. Not sure how you got to 2 strikes. Here's my math:

1) Weed + Gun + Car rented by a FELON
2) Shotgunning beers on Facebook a few days later
3) Spring Speeding Ticket + CAR RENTED BY A FELON
4) Another Speeding Ticket

So I guess 3 strikes and you're out = baseball. But 4 balls and you walk right into practice = the Carolina way??

Ultimately, I honestly want whats best for the kid, not what hurts UNC the most. I know I made dumb decisions at 20, I'm sure most people did. If Roy is doing this in order to teach him a lesson and make him a better man, than more power to him. I applaud that. I certainly know I'd be defending K like heck if he chose to keep him on the team. As I've said before, however, UNC doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on that front any more. After all the academic impropriety, athletic scandals, etc. its hard for me to believe Roy or anyone else is doing the "right" thing as opposed to looking out for their own interests. Its not a case of one renegade professor or something; its seems to be spread throughout the institution and administration and the attempted coverups have only left me more disillusioned with the university, as it has its own alums.

So defend Roy all you want, but that place appears to be full of crooks, and in need of drastic, drastic overhaul and they could start with their image. The appearance of slapping PJ on the wrist for what he did this summer isn't helping.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 06:30 PM
So it doesn't count as a strike unless Roy has contemporaneous notice?

No, I wouldn't think that single routine speeding ticket PJ got in the spring is a reason for a coach to discipline a player. ( And as I said earlier, I doubt Roy knew about it until the pack crowd uncovered it).

After PJ's pattern of poor behavior came to light, that spring ticket did become part of the overall issue of irresponsible behavior that Roy is dealing with now.

SilkyJ
10-01-2013, 06:51 PM
No, I wouldn't think that single routine speeding ticket PJ got in the spring is a reason for a coach to discipline a player.

Wheat- see above. A routine speeding ticket alone isn't reason to bat an eye. But when you're driving a car rented to you by a guy who has been convicted of multiple felons, that in and of itself is reason to at least do some digging. Finding that out in the midst of 2 or 3 other transgressions...yea I think I'd do something about that. "Suspending" someone when he's not on campus anyway and making him run some laps once school starts does not constitute "something" for me, but I don't coach at UNC, where athletes run wild...

moonpie23
10-01-2013, 07:27 PM
wheat, you're losing points with me over this one........


you REALLY think that K would allow PJ to stay on the team after getting busted with weed, guns, and a rental car from dubious source? then AFTER that he gets busted for reckless driving and speeding?


that's some BS right there, man.....

jipops
10-01-2013, 08:41 PM
Will Graves was a big loss and expected to be a starter and key contributor in the '10-'11 season. He would have been the teams best outside shooter. His dismissal left UNC with only 10 scholarship players.

He was not some throw away player you'd like to make him out to be.

If PJ were the talent level of Will Graves, this thread would be a lot shorter... for multiple reasons.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 09:25 PM
Wheat- see above. A routine speeding ticket alone isn't reason to bat an eye. But when you're driving a car rented to you by a guy who has been convicted of multiple felons, that in and of itself is reason to at least do some digging. Finding that out in the midst of 2 or 3 other transgressions...yea I think I'd do something about that. "Suspending" someone when he's not on campus anyway and making him run some laps once school starts does not constitute "something" for me, but I don't coach at UNC, where athletes run wild...

This Fats guys felonies had nothing to do with PJ. Having said that, PJ has no business hanging with guys like that as a UNC basketball player, a lesson he has learned.

BTW, There is no evidence at this time that the cars were rented for PJ that we have seen. Zero. Just because it keeps getting repeated on here and pack pride does not make it so.

There is only evidence that he drove them, as did many other kids.

I'm sure UNC and the NCAA are investigating the rentals, as they should. If they do find that they were rented for PJ, punishment will be coming.

Remember, full disciplinary actions are not complete.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 09:36 PM
wheat, you're losing points with me over this one........


you REALLY think that K would allow PJ to stay on the team after getting busted with weed, guns, and a rental car from dubious source? then AFTER that he gets busted for reckless driving and speeding?


that's some BS right there, man.....

Probably, and maybe not. Who's to say without all the facts, and we don't know all the facts.

Duvall
10-01-2013, 09:48 PM
My understanding of the time line is the pack crowd uncovered the existence of the first ticket from the spring, after the Durham traffic stop. No-one was reporting on it prior to that, because to my knowledge, nobody knew about that ticket until then.

While Roy was digesting his discipline options after the circumstances of the Durham traffic stop, and the spring ticket that was revealed right after the stop, PJ went out and got the second ticket. And that got him immediately suspended.

It's really not that complicated.

Will Graves was a big loss and expected to be a starter and key contributor in the '10-'11 season. He would have been the teams best outside shooter. His dismissal left UNC with only 10 scholarship players.

He was not some throw away player you'd like to make him out to be.

What was Hairston suspended from, exactly? Not practice. Not offseason workouts. Is a suspension that causes a player to miss nothing still a suspension?

Good luck finding someone that expected Will Graves to start and be the best shooter on a team with Harrison Barnes and Reggie Bullock in the summer of 2010.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-01-2013, 10:23 PM
What was Hairston suspended from, exactly? Not practice. Not offseason workouts. Is a suspension that causes a player to miss nothing still a suspension?

Good luck finding someone that expected Will Graves to start and be the best shooter on a team with Harrison Barnes and Reggie Bullock in the summer of 2010.

We don't know what he will miss yet. The season hasn't started and that is to be determined.

I bet there are many knowledgable Duke fans on this board that will agree with me that Graves would have started and likely been the best outside shooter that year.

In 2009-10 Graves started 33 of 36 games.

He shot 37% from 3pt land in his JR. season.

He was a rising senior and in the best shape ever before being dismissed before the 2010-11 season.

Freshman Barnes ended up shooting 34% from the 3pt line that season.

Freshman Bullock shot 29% from deep that year.

I'm confident in my assessment that Graves was set to be a starter and serious threat to be the teams best outside shooter had he not been dismissed.

topps coach
10-01-2013, 10:25 PM
and maybe not. Who's to say without all the facts, and we don't know all the facts.[/QUOTE]

Well the answer is in Roy put the hammer down,PJ will not be allowed to choose where the team will eat their post game meals. This may well be cruel and unusual punishment

Duvall
10-01-2013, 10:44 PM
This Fats guys felonies had nothing to do with PJ. Having said that, PJ has no business hanging with guys like that as a UNC basketball player, a lesson he has learned.

BTW, There is no evidence at this time that the cars were rented for PJ that we have seen. Zero. Just because it keeps getting repeated on here and pack pride does not make it so.

Wheat, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. (Also, you should change your opinions.) Because there's at least one person other than posters here and elsewhere that has said that the car was rented for Hairston... (http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/07/12/3025921/police-report-uncs-hairston-switched.html)


“...Corporal Navarre asked Mr. Hairston about the vehicle. Mr. Hairston stated that he received the vehicle sometime around 1900 hours. Mr. Hairston then stated that an unknown male, only known as “Fatts,” rented the vehicle for him. Mr. Hairston stated that “Fatts” rented vehicle for Mr. Hairston because he was planning on traveling to Atlanta this weekend to see some friends.”

That's okay, Durham Police Corporal Navarre is probably just another PackPride poster.


There is only evidence that he drove them, as did many other kids.

Many other kids? Who are those other kids? Can you name them? Did an officer of the law make a formal record that they were driving those cars?


I'm sure UNC and the NCAA are investigating the rentals, as they should.

What reason do you have to be sure of this?

Duvall
10-01-2013, 10:46 PM
We don't know what he will miss yet. The season hasn't started and that is to be determined.

I bet there are many knowledgable Duke fans on this board that will agree with me that Graves would have started and likely been the best outside shooter that year.

In 2009-10 Graves started 33 of 36 games.

He shot 37% from 3pt land in his JR. season.

He was a rising senior and in the best shape ever before being dismissed before the 2010-11 season.

Freshman Barnes ended up shooting 34% from the 3pt line that season.

Freshman Bullock shot 29% from deep that year.

Sure, we can say that after the fact. But at the time Graves was deemed disposable, Harrison Barnes wasn't just assumed to be a great shooter, he was getting named as preseason National Player of the Year.

devildeac
10-01-2013, 11:00 PM
and maybe not. Who's to say without all the facts, and we don't know all the facts.

Well the answer is in Roy put the hammer down,PJ will not be allowed to choose where the team will eat their post game meals . This may well be cruel and unusual punishment[/QUOTE]


The only one this will potentially affect will be young Kennedy Meeks at 6'9" and a slim, trim 290 pounds:eek:.

SilkyJ
10-02-2013, 12:45 PM
This Fats guys felonies had nothing to do with PJ. Having said that, PJ has no business hanging with guys like that as a UNC basketball player, a lesson he has learned.

How can you definitively state that he has learned his lesson? What evidence do you have to suggest that? A few months of no transgressions?



BTW, There is no evidence at this time that the cars were rented for PJ that we have seen. Zero. Just because it keeps getting repeated on here and pack pride does not make it so.

Dude, we've got to work on your math. First you claim 2 strikes when its 4, now you say zero evidence when there is a piece evidence. The most damming kind, infact: from the horse's mouth. PJ admitted it to police! Per Duvall's linked article:


“Mr. Hairston stated that ‘Fatts’ rented the vehicle for Mr. Hairston because he was planning on traveling to Atlanta this weekend to see some friends,” the report said.

Link (http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/07/12/3025921/police-report-uncs-hairston-switched.html#storylink=cpy)


There is only evidence that he drove them, as did many other kids.

This is now a moot point as you have been corrected. But, who cares if other kids drove them? Is that a "well they were doing it to" defense? Doesn't matter I guess, but that's weak if that's what you're going for.


Remember, full disciplinary actions are not complete.

I honestly don't really care what Roy does or does not do, as long as the kid makes better life decisions. That said, I don't think he's been treated harshly enough to really teach him a lesson, whereas you think he has received an appropriate level of punishment (or close to it). However, I think your opinion is distorted by your view of the facts, or your selective memory and omission of some facts. Witness: PJ has not had 2 strikes, he has 4, which I outlined earlier. Moreover, 2 of those strikes involved association with a known felon. Even further, the cars were rented specifically for him by this drug dealer, something you claimed was not true and used as a defense.

I don't know what the right recourse is for all those transgressions, and I'm not really trying to opine on that, but you are simply making up your own facts now and that needs correction. In light of these actual facts, if you still believe what you've been spouting, then you should just admit that whatever Roy does if fine by you regardless of what's really happened, b/c you are clearly not forming an opinion based on the actual events.

oldnavy
10-02-2013, 06:36 PM
Personally, I am not sure what Roy should do at this point, it's a tough call. If you boot PJ off the team, then you lose all "influence" over him and he is free to run with "Fats" and company do whatever he wants... (as much as he can get away). Does that really "teach" him anything? Probably not. If you do too little, then that is just as bad if not worse. What is the right thing to do?? I don't know. But I do know that having been "judge, jury and executioner" a few times in my Navy career, it is not easy nor is it enjoyable.

Roy, love him or hate him has more info and "knows" PJ better than any of us, and despite his tendency to have "foot in mouth" disease, I do think he cares enough for his kids to do what he thinks is best for them. Not sure why I believe that, but I do.

The problem is that the "black cloud" hanging over CH makes everyone outside of the UNC family EXPECT that they will do as little as possible instead of "the right thing".

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-02-2013, 07:28 PM
Personally, I am not sure what Roy should do at this point, it's a tough call. If you boot PJ off the team, then you lose all "influence" over him and he is free to run with "Fats" and company do whatever he wants... (as much as he can get away). Does that really "teach" him anything? Probably not. If you do too little, then that is just as bad if not worse. What is the right thing to do?? I don't know. But I do know that having been "judge, jury and executioner" a few times in my Navy career, it is not easy nor is it enjoyable.

Roy, love him or hate him has more info and "knows" PJ better than any of us, and despite his tendency to have "foot in mouth" disease, I do think he cares enough for his kids to do what he thinks is best for them. Not sure why I believe that, but I do.

The problem is that the "black cloud" hanging over CH makes everyone outside of the UNC family EXPECT that they will do as little as possible instead of "the right thing".
If Roy boots him off the team, it opens the door for PJ to tell all. And no one on the hump wants that.

sagegrouse
10-02-2013, 07:41 PM
If Roy boots him off the team, it opens the door for PJ to tell all. And no one on the hump wants that.

Let's remember, Roy needs to resist imposing any penalty on Hairston at this point until the NCAA weighs in. The NCAA will come in with a proposed penalty for the rental car business, and possibly other stuff. So, there will be negotiation with UNC, , and the UNC hierarchy doesn't want to give up anything until it has to -- good negotiating strategy, although not exactly The Carolina Way.

sagegrouse

Henderson
10-02-2013, 08:48 PM
Personally, I am not sure what Roy should do at this point, it's a tough call. If you boot PJ off the team, then you lose all "influence" over him and he is free to run with "Fats" and company do whatever he wants... (as much as he can get away). Does that really "teach" him anything? Probably not.

It might not teach PJ anything, but it would teach other players (present and future) something. And it would signal some standards at a school whose athletic department clearly needs to improve both its standards and the public's perception of those standards.

But that ain't gonna happen. PJ will be "suspended" for two or three chippy games, but having been practicing with the team all along, it's nothing to PJ or to the team.

SilkyJ
10-03-2013, 09:45 AM
Let's remember, Roy needs to resist imposing any penalty on Hairston at this point until the NCAA weighs in. The NCAA will come in with a proposed penalty for the rental car business, and possibly other stuff. So, there will be negotiation with UNC, , and the UNC hierarchy doesn't want to give up anything until it has to -- good negotiating strategy, although not exactly The Carolina Way.

sagegrouse

Is that true? Is the NCAA actually investigating here? Not saying they aren't, I just wasn't sure that they were.

If they are, then that Definitely makes the situation murkier, but I disagree that Roy needs to wait for the NCAA before imposing ANY penalties. Roy can and ought to impose whatever penalties HE sees fit first. It's his program after all, and if the NCAA wants to come in above and beyond that, that's fine, but if I'm a coach then a player needs to uphold my standards and I need to set my own precedent first.

Now, I'm guessing you are referring to "how many games he should be suspended." That's fair to wait until you get guidance from the NCAA I guess...but doing that sends the message that you are going to do just the minimum that the NCAA demands and not necessarily uphold your own standards.

UrinalCake
10-03-2013, 09:56 AM
Espn with a video update on PJ. He will be back when the team starts practice on Friday. The commentator guesses about a six game suspension. No mention of an NCAA investigation, apparently Roy gets to decide entirely on his own how long PJ should sit. A pretty biased viewpoint IMO. He does call out Roy and say that if this were a bench player he would have been kicked off the team. Then they have good laugh about that.

http://w88.m.espn.go.com/b/ss/wdgwespmobileweb/5.4/REDIR/087181212585260191380807711727?D=..&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonce.unicornmedia.com%2Fnow%2Fod% 2Fauto%2F4d993388-8b49-4f34-9e48-87906e690281%2Fba3bbb35-473a-4af7-a649-54de157a3f99%2F6f835070-8604-43a7-a0eb-c0bfe92fdacb%2Fcontent.once%3FUMADPARAMreferer%3Dh ttp%3A%2F%2Fespn.go.com%2Fvideo%2Fclip%3Fid%3D9729 015%26UMADPARAMcsid%3Despnmobileweb%3Ancb%3Astory&pe=media&mediaName=NCB%3A%3ATRENDING_NOW%3A%3A+COM_NCB+News +%28Still+No+Decision+On+P.J.+Hairston%29+2013%2F0 9%2F26+ESHEET+Headlines_9729015&mediaLength=00%3A03%3A16&mediaPlayer=Off+Deck&mediaSession=0-0&c3=videoid%3DNCB%3A%3ATRENDING_NOW%3A%3A+COM_NCB+N ews+%28Still+No+Decision+On+P.J.+Hairston%29+2013% 2F09%2F26+ESHEET+Headlines_9729015&v2=videoid%3DNCB%3A%3ATRENDING_NOW%3A%3A+COM_NCB+N ews+%28Still+No+Decision+On+P.J.+Hairston%29+2013% 2F09%2F26+ESHEET+Headlines_9729015&v16=manual&events=event1&vid=%5BCS%5Dv1%7C277B3B1405163367-400001A6A00121D0%5BCE%5D

sagegrouse
10-03-2013, 10:06 AM
Is that true? Is the NCAA actually investigating here? Not saying they aren't, I just wasn't sure that they were.

If they are, then that Definitely makes the situation murkier, but I disagree that Roy needs to wait for the NCAA before imposing ANY penalties. Roy can and ought to impose whatever penalties HE sees fit first. It's his program after all, and if the NCAA wants to come in above and beyond that, that's fine, but if I'm a coach then a player needs to uphold my standards and I need to set my own precedent first.

Now, I'm guessing you are referring to "how many games he should be suspended." That's fair to wait until you get guidance from the NCAA I guess...but doing that sends the message that you are going to do just the minimum that the NCAA demands and not necessarily uphold your own standards.

No I am not metaphysically certain that the NCAA and UNC are jointly investigating the rental car situation for P.J. Hairston. (I have no idea what "metaphysically certain" means, but I like the sound of it.) But, I ask you and others, why else is Roy waiting to impose punishment on P.J.? If the NCAA has closed the case or failed to open one, then Roy would go ahead and impose his penalties on P.J. -- eight games, four games, first-half of the first exhibition, or whatever.

Reflecting casually on other cases of "impermissible benefits," the NCAA would typically put a market value on the benefits and assess a suspension of a number of games -- or a whole -- season based on that value. But it's a discussion and negotiation with the school, with the UNC compliance and AD staff sharing its assessment with the NCAA and vice versa. From a negotiating perspective, Roy shouldn't impose a penalty until UNC hears from the NCAA because his penalty would be based on matters beyond the impermissible benefit, such as the speeding tickets and the pot. As a result, the NCAA would say its penalty should be additive to anything the coach comes up with.

sagegrouse

Sir Stealth
10-03-2013, 10:06 AM
It's annoying that with the season starting back up, all of the focus is on PJ and the discipline that he personally may or may not face. I could really care less about PJ being punished for his legal infractions, but it blows my mind that the entire wheels for heels, etc. thing, where anyone can see that these guys were getting improper benefits from Fats and his people, not to mention the relationship with PJ and an agent, seems to be getting swept back under the rug. Hard to believe this can happen when all of this stuff went on while Carolina was already under the widespread institutional academic fraud cloud (one that the basketball team got off way easy for in my opinion), as well as the fallout from the other seedy elements running wild in the football program.