How Many Games Will PJ Hairston Sit This Season?

[Henderson]

Changing the question and title and adding a poll. It will take awhile for the Poll to show so Patience

[kcduke75]

A half season?

I'll take the over. Roy will have him back for conference play.

[sagegrouse]

Zero. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

He doesn't act like a guy who wants to be on a college basketball team. And I doubt that he wants to face the music from UNC fans or from Duke, State and others. He can go to Europe and make some bucks... or gain experience in the NBDL

Moreover, Roy should just refuse to reinstate him. He's gonna miss a good bit of the season, anyway. And it is apparent that he lied through his teeth to his coach about the car, Fats, and other stuff.

sagegrouse

[chaosmage]

if at all. I can't see Roy letting him back this year. Can you suspend him from playing, but let him practice, a la transfer rules? I can see Roy doing that as a way to prep him for the draft next year, but not letting him play.

I'd gain a TINY bit of respect back, IF Roy put him off the team. Not for the incidents themselves, but the "bump you" attitude that seems to permeate it. As a teacher, that's my biggest issue.

[MartyClark]

Zero. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

He doesn't act like a guy who wants to be on a college basketball team. And I doubt that he wants to face the music from UNC fans or from Duke, State and others. He can go to Europe and make some bucks... or gain experience in the NBDL

Moreover, Roy should just refuse to reinstate him. He's gonna miss a good bit of the season, anyway. And it is apparent that he lied through his teeth to his coach about the car, Fats, and other stuff.

sagegrouse

Reasoned and principled response. I predict the opposite. Roy and UNC minimize this. Five game suspension.

I'll be very happy if I'm wrong.

[timmy c]

Reasoned and principled response. I predict the opposite. Roy and UNC minimize this. Five game suspension.

I'll be very happy if I'm wrong.

5 games would be Holy Cross, Belmont, Richmond, Louisville/Fairfield, and UAB. Hairston would be back for Michigan st. And Kentucky, plus the ACC schedule. Unfortunately, I think you'll be right.

[arnie]

5 games would be Holy Cross, Belmont, Richmond, Louisville/Fairfield, and UAB. Hairston would be back for Michigan st. And Kentucky, plus the ACC schedule. Unfortunately, I think you'll be right.

PJ apologizes, promises to do better and Roy sits him for Holy Cross. Depending on Belmont's strength, Roy either starts him or subs him to take the Dome up to 40 dB. End of punishment.

[SmartDevil]

Hairston will be reinstated sometime in January.

Roy's capacity for self-deception and his gift for making the wrong decision will likely ensure this.

Great recruiter though. Would make a great used car salesman as well.

[Kedsy]

I don't think it matters. UNC was going to achieve below expectations before this mess started. At this point, if PJ doesn't play at all, they'll be struggling for an NCAA bid. If he does play, the distraction of it has a good chance of scuttling their season anyway. Win-win for us.

[Indoor66]

I don't think it matters. UNC was going to achieve below expectations before this mess started. At this point, if PJ doesn't play at all, they'll be struggling for an NCAA bid. If he does play, the distraction of it has a good chance of scuttling their season anyway. Win-win for us.

Would have to agree with this. I can't imagine his teammates are overjoyed with this mess intruding into their lives either.

[Newton_14]

This is the thread to replace the one Henderson started. Poll will show up in just a minute.

Place your bets boyz and girlz!


3519

[plimnko]

picks up an extra "no show" sawhili class and sits zero games

[Newton_14]

OK that was more difficult than planned but poll is now up. Logic: UNC has 12 games prior to Jan 1. I figure PJ could miss anywhere from 1 to 12 games. If he misses more than 12 it most likely mean he is gone for the year. I did leave an option for "Other" for those who feel he will sit into January but still get to play.

What say ye?

[Faustus]

3 whopping games. One for each offense. Harsh, tough love. Probably not Div. 1 teams, either, if at all possible.

[subzero02]

I voted for 5 games before reading the thread...

[PDDuke85]

picks up an extra "no show" sawhili class and sits zero games

In order to receive a stiff zero game suspension, he must first, obtain an "A" in that no show Swahili class. Anything less than an "A" and he'll be required to have the Butch Davis family tutor write a paper on his behalf.

Once the Duke football team opens summer camp, the UNC situations becomes more irrelevant than they are today. My gridiron footballers needs positive energy, without extraneous distraction.

Go Duke

Who the hell cares about UNC!

[OldPhiKap]

First semester, which is 12 games If I understand the representations above.

[jipops]

10 games. It's a nice round number and Roy can say he took him out for double digit games. It also gives him 2 games to ease his best player back in before ACC play.

Slightly hard wrist slap done.

[devildeac]

5 games. Returns with a dreadful performance in the old fashioned thrashing behind the woodshed that Sparty lays on the sheep in East Lansing.

[matt1]

I said six games, but nothing would really surprise me at this point.

[gep]

Zero. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

He doesn't act like a guy who wants to be on a college basketball team. And I doubt that he wants to face the music from UNC fans or from Duke, State and others. He can go to Europe and make some bucks... or gain experience in the NBDL

Moreover, Roy should just refuse to reinstate him. He's gonna miss a good bit of the season, anyway. And it is apparent that he lied through his teeth to his coach about the car, Fats, and other stuff.

sagegrouse

I totally agree... he should be off the team for the entire season. He really doesn't appear to *want* to be on this unc team. It's like... this is me, I'm the *one*, I can do whatever I like... you guys take me or leave me... up to you. Pathetic...

I hope Ol Roy refuses to reinstate him...

[SoCalDukeFan]

I originally thought the first half of the Holy Cross game and that half of the Carolina fans would say this proved how tough Roy is and the other half would say Roy was too tough on the kid.

With the second issue I will go with 5 so that he is back for MSU.

SoCal

[77devil]

This is the thread to replace the one Henderson started. Poll will show up in just a minute.

Place your bets boyz and girlz!


3519

Where the h*** is UNCasville, CT? The original Tip Off Classic tournament was in Springfield, MA, home of the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Duke beat Kentucky in an O.T. thriller in the inaugural game. No doubt ESPN picked the spot.

Since the arena is at a casino, P.J. should have plenty of opportunity to hit the tables.

[BD80]

I object! This poll is fundamentally flawed!

To respond, we must first divine how many more stupid things PJ will get CAUGHT committing. I suppose it would make sense to extrapolate at the rate of one per month, but we also need to consider the diminishing daylight and the effect on ol' roy's golf schedule. Also, summer car rental rates soon expire, and as students return to the dump, parking becomes problematic.

Just so many variables!

[howardlander]

I mean really, do you expect anything else? I don't think he'll miss a single game.

Howard

[Wheat/"/"/"]

First semester, which is 12 games If I understand the representations above.

Agreed.

[Duvall]

thrashing behind the woodshed that Sparty lays on the sheep...

Yes, but...

This is Michigan State, and UNC. Expect the Spartans to roll over pretty quickly.

[allenmurray]

Twice in cars loaned to him by a felon or the felon's housemate. 3 tickets, Caught with marijuana and a gun (not prosecuted). Caught going 93 mph while still in the spotlight for the other offenses. The question is not how many games will or should he miss. the question is whether Roy and UNC value character more than winning or winning more than character. if he plays at all it is the latter. The third ticket was a big F.U. to his coach and team-mates. If they let him play after that PJ isn't the one with a character problem, Roy is.

He will miss 12 games. Roy cares more about winning.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Twice in cars loaned to him by a felon or the felon's housemate. 3 tickets, Caught with marijuana and a gun (not prosecuted). Caught going 93 mph while still in the spotlight for the other offenses. The question is not how many games will or should he miss. the question is whether Roy and UNC value character more than winning or winning more than character. if he plays at all it is the latter. The third ticket was a big F.U. to his coach and team-mates. If they let him play after that PJ isn't the one with a character problem, Roy is.

He will miss 12 games. Roy cares more about winning.

The issues don't reach the level for Roy to totally give up on PJ at this point, IMO. The kid has made some youthful mistakes and he's going to pay a price.

Now that these mistakes have become very public, and its becoming a program problem, PJ has lost the option for any more chances to recover from another screwup. He better walk the straight and narrow from here on out or he's history.

[elvis14]

I voted for 3 games as what I think he will miss, not what he should miss. I think he should miss more because of the wheels for heels program that was being run with the athletic department already on the NCAA double secret probration. Louisville being the 4th game is what prompts me to think PJ will miss 3 games.


He better walk the straight and narrow from here on out or he's history.

Wheat, I agree with you but the same could have been said after the weed/gun/fats situation which was followed up with public drinking and reckless driving (that we know about).

[chaosmage]

The issues don't reach the level for Roy to totally give up on PJ at this point, IMO. The kid has made some youthful mistakes and he's going to pay a price.

Now that these mistakes have become very public, and its becoming a program problem, PJ has lost the option for any more chances to recover from another screwup. He better walk the straight and narrow from here on out or he's history.

Just because it's worth saying. P.J. doesn't seem to care. It's not the level of the incidents, which is what the UNC fans I know seem to be focused on. It's the repetitive nature of the violations.

As a teacher, if a kid keeps making public mistakes, after you have said "you're going to be suspended, please turn it down and keep a low profile," then the kid does not respect you as an authority. That is how I interpret the last ticket. He hasn't learned that because of everything, he's going to be watched, and he's got to be careful. Allen said it best, and I've said it before as well. From an outside point of view, this latest incident shows he doesn't respect the team and coach, for reasons we don't know. Doing that, knowing I'd been all over the public media this month with previous idiocy, shows (to me) that he just. Does. Not. Care.

I'd also lay some blame on myself (were I Roy), because if any of this happened and I coached D-1, this kid wouldn't go to the bathroom without a handler. Either one of his teammates, a manager, someone watches this kid. He complains, he's welcome to quit the team. Because he's shown he NEEDS a babysitter. Them's the breaks.

And if this all happened to a Duke player? Toss him. I'm not being overly harsh because it's Roy. It's what I would do to one of my students OR expect an adult to do to my own kid. If you think that makes me a terrible teacher or father, well.. walk a mile first. Then talk to me.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wheat, I agree with you but the same could have been said after the weed/gun/fats situation which was followed up with public drinking and reckless driving (that we know about).

True, and it wouldn't completely surprise me if Roy decides to dismiss him for the season.

It's a tough call and will probably be based on the private conversations Roy has likely had with PJ. Does Roy feel he has been lied to? Or does he feel like he shouldn't give up on him and PJ's judgement is just that bad that he needs more discipline and support to learn to make better decisions? It's in most coaches DNA to try to improve tough situations, not quit on them.

My gut still says dismissal would be too much for what we've seen.

[MarkD83]

If pj is just ignoring the coaches and the last ticket is disrespect How much would his presence on the team disrupt team chemistry. Is his talent worth that. LDII comes to mind

[allenmurray]

The kid has made some youthful mistakes and he's going to pay a price.

I don't know anything about your personal life. But as a parent of a child the same age as Hairston I can assure you that to every responsible parent I know traveling in a car loaned to my child (or one of his friends) by a felon, with drugs and a gun in the car, would be a very big deal. It would be way more than a youthful mistake. If while that action was still front page news he was then pulled for traveling 93 mph on an interstate highway during rush hour I'd think he didn't take the first situation very seriously.

Speeding - youthful mistake.
Marijuana - youthful mistake.
Being in a car loaned to you (twice) when you've had already had training about NCAA violations - youthful mistake maybe, but also an "I'm above all that" attitude.
Doing those things while in possession of a gun!?! Irrespective whether charges were filed having a gun seems a bit more than a youthful mistake. Guns can actually kill people. Get stopped anywhere other than Durham and the charges for throwing a gun out the window at a traffic check-point don't get dropped.

If being in possession of a gun and marijuana, while driving a car loaned to you by a felon, then getting caught speeding at 93 mph just week later is a youthful mistake, then seriously, what would it take to rise to the level of something beyond a youthful mistake? What behavior would a UNC player have to engage in before you Wheat, thought they should no longer represent a public university? If you are (or were) a parent, what level of behavior would make you think your child had a serious problem, not a series of youthful mistakes? Because describing it as a youthful mistake negates the alternate hypothesis - that PJ Hairston has some serious problems that he may need help with (or that he just doesn't give a damn, feeling he will soon be wealthy).

Despite my liberal politics, I know that I am very conservative in my parenting, with very high expectations for my children (which may be why my 25 year old and 19 year old have never been stopped in possession of a felon-borrowed car, marijuana, or guns, etc. and my 14 year-old knows clearly how miserable his life would become if he followed any other path than the model laid out for him by his sister and brother). And maybe I'm the one out of line here. Maybe 93 in a 65 is a youthful mistake. Maybe taking loaner cars from felons, in violation of NCAA guidelines while a scholarship athlete is a youthful mistake. Maybe riding around an a neighborhood known for drug dealing (I lived in that town for 30 years and know just where they were stopped) is a youthful mistake. Maybe being with friends who drive around with a gun is a youthful mistake. If I'm in the minority here I hope it is a growing minority, because I think those behaviors were beyond youthful mistakes and are not representative of the kinds of behaviors that lead someone to becoming a productive citizen. There are a lot of kids who understand that getting a free ride to a top-tier university is a privilege that needs to be respected, not spit on. And there are a lot of us out here (rooting for a wide variety of universities) who have standards for behavior for our young-adult children far higher than what Hairston has shown.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

If pj is just ignoring the coaches and the last ticket is disrespect How much would his presence on the team disrupt team chemistry. Is his talent worth that. LDII comes to mind

From everything I've seen, his teammates seem to love playing with him.

LDII never seemed to quite fit, at least from my distant perspective.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I don't know anything about your personal life. But as a parent of a child the same age as Hairston I can assure you that to every responsible parent I know traveling in a car loaned to my child (or one of his friends) by a felon, with drugs and a gun in the car, would be a very big deal. It would be way more than a youthful mistake. If while that action was still front page news he was then pulled for traveling 93 mph on an interstate highway during rush hour I'd think he didn't take the first situation very seriously.

Speeding - youthful mistake.
Marijuana - youthful mistake.
Being in a car loaned to you (twice) when you've had already had training about NCAA violations - youthful mistake maybe, but also an "I'm above all that" attitude.
Doing those things while in possession of a gun!?! Irrespective whether charges were filed having a gun seems a bit more than a youthful mistake. Guns can actually kill people. Get stopped anywhere other than Durham and the charges for throwing a gun out the window at a traffic check-point don't get dropped.

If being in possession of a gun and marijuana, while driving a car loaned to you by a felon, then getting caught speeding at 93 mph just week later is a youthful mistake, then seriously, what would it take to rise to the level of something beyond a youthful mistake? What behavior would a UNC player have to engage in before you Wheat, thought they should no longer represent a public university? If you are (or were) a parent, what level of behavior would make you think your child had a serious problem, not a series of youthful mistakes? Because describing it as a youthful mistake negates the alternate hypothesis - that PJ Hairston has some serious problems that he may need help with (or that he just doesn't give a damn, feeling he will soon be wealthy).

Despite my liberal politics, I know that I am very conservative in my parenting, with very high expectations for my children (which may be why my 25 year old and 19 year old have never been stopped in possession of a felon-borrowed car, marijuana, or guns, etc. and my 14 year-old knows clearly how miserable his life would become if he followed any other path than the model laid out for him by his sister and brother). And maybe I'm the one out of line here. Maybe 93 in a 65 is a youthful mistake. Maybe taking loaner cars from felons, in violation of NCAA guidelines while a scholarship athlete is a youthful mistake. Maybe riding around an a neighborhood known for drug dealing (I lived in that town for 30 years and know just where they were stopped) is a youthful mistake. Maybe being with friends who drive around with a gun is a youthful mistake. If I'm in the minority here I hope it is a growing minority, because I think those behaviors were beyond youthful mistakes and are not representative of the kinds of behaviors that lead someone to becoming a productive citizen. There are a lot of kids who understand that getting a free ride to a top-tier university is a privilege that needs to be respected, not spit on. And there are a lot of us out here (rooting for a wide variety of universities) who have standards for behavior for our young-adult children far higher than what Hairston has shown.

I am decidedly conservative in my politics. But I recognize that some kids, especially minorities, do not have the same life view of society and what's acceptable, or not, that maybe you and I do.

You are assuming PJ knew Fats was a felon. Isn't it possible that he just thought Fats was the cool guy in the crowd with some money that let people who didn't have a car, use a car? And he had no idea of his criminal background? PJ knew better than accept anything from an agent, but Fats is no agent. Maybe the kid just wrongly figured it was no big deal?

The weed and the gun quite possibly were not his. PJ supposedly has passed his drug tests. Bad judgement to be in that situation? Yes. Uncommon for plenty of minority kids with his background? I doubt it.

Speeding tickets? Stupid, especially the reckless one on the interstate. But with a stretch of bad luck, I'd venture to guess any of us could rack up some speeding tickets in a hurry.

The bigger issue is...his actions show a lack of respect to those trying to help him. He owes UNC respect for the scholarship, and to Roy for a place on the team.

At what point is the point of no return?

It's Roy's call, not mine or yours. He has way more information than we do on this whole mess.

[Kedsy]

You are assuming PJ knew Fats was a felon. Isn't it possible that he just thought Fats was the cool guy in the crowd with some money that let people who didn't have a car, use a car? And he had no idea of his criminal background?

I don't know. College kids (even at UNC) have brains. When I was in school I sometimes went to parties that also happened to be attended by drug dealers. Everyone knew they were dealers. Hard to believe PJ thought Fats was just some cool guy.

[wilko]

I'm an optimist - I vote he sits the whole year.
No now of course the team may say one thing and then the NCAA follows up and invalidates/vacates some other games in which he plays... I'm still right.

[CLW]

My bet is Zero or he may sit out the exhibitions only.

[MarkD83]

From everything I've seen, his teammates seem to love playing with him.

LDII never seemed to quite fit, at least from my distant perspective.

If your observation is correct, perhaps the best thing for PJ is to get back to a structured schedule with his teammates. If they like playing with him they might keep him in line.

[BD80]

I think ol' roy will drop the hammer, Denzell Robinson will be suspended for the whole season.

[OldPhiKap]

The bigger issue is...his actions show a lack of respect to those trying to help him. He owes UNC respect for the scholarship, and to Roy for a place on the team.

At what point is the point of no return?

I think this is the key, and why this will not be a matter of only a few games.

Roy wans to win. Above all, though, Roy is coaching for his legacy and that of UNC. He is a proud man, and rightfully so. This kid lied to him, and then after being warned (I am sure) he is acting in an incredibly reckless manner and brings yet more shame on Roy's program.

I would not be surprised if PJ does not enroll in the fall and instead signs a contract somewhere. But if he comes back to school, he is out for at least a semester or thereabouts.

[slower]

I don't know anything about your personal life. But as a parent of a child the same age as Hairston I can assure you that to every responsible parent I know traveling in a car loaned to my child (or one of his friends) by a felon, with drugs and a gun in the car, would be a very big deal. It would be way more than a youthful mistake. If while that action was still front page news he was then pulled for traveling 93 mph on an interstate highway during rush hour I'd think he didn't take the first situation very seriously.

Speeding - youthful mistake.
Marijuana - youthful mistake.
Being in a car loaned to you (twice) when you've had already had training about NCAA violations - youthful mistake maybe, but also an "I'm above all that" attitude.
Doing those things while in possession of a gun!?! Irrespective whether charges were filed having a gun seems a bit more than a youthful mistake. Guns can actually kill people. Get stopped anywhere other than Durham and the charges for throwing a gun out the window at a traffic check-point don't get dropped.

If being in possession of a gun and marijuana, while driving a car loaned to you by a felon, then getting caught speeding at 93 mph just week later is a youthful mistake, then seriously, what would it take to rise to the level of something beyond a youthful mistake? What behavior would a UNC player have to engage in before you Wheat, thought they should no longer represent a public university? If you are (or were) a parent, what level of behavior would make you think your child had a serious problem, not a series of youthful mistakes? Because describing it as a youthful mistake negates the alternate hypothesis - that PJ Hairston has some serious problems that he may need help with (or that he just doesn't give a damn, feeling he will soon be wealthy).

Despite my liberal politics, I know that I am very conservative in my parenting, with very high expectations for my children (which may be why my 25 year old and 19 year old have never been stopped in possession of a felon-borrowed car, marijuana, or guns, etc. and my 14 year-old knows clearly how miserable his life would become if he followed any other path than the model laid out for him by his sister and brother). And maybe I'm the one out of line here. Maybe 93 in a 65 is a youthful mistake. Maybe taking loaner cars from felons, in violation of NCAA guidelines while a scholarship athlete is a youthful mistake. Maybe riding around an a neighborhood known for drug dealing (I lived in that town for 30 years and know just where they were stopped) is a youthful mistake. Maybe being with friends who drive around with a gun is a youthful mistake. If I'm in the minority here I hope it is a growing minority, because I think those behaviors were beyond youthful mistakes and are not representative of the kinds of behaviors that lead someone to becoming a productive citizen. There are a lot of kids who understand that getting a free ride to a top-tier university is a privilege that needs to be respected, not spit on. And there are a lot of us out here (rooting for a wide variety of universities) who have standards for behavior for our young-adult children far higher than what Hairston has shown.

THIS, all day, every day, and twice on Sunday.

[sagegrouse]

The ACC may have seen the last of P.J. And while I have made clear why he merits dismissal from the UNC team, there is another factor.

P.J. is in a very awkward place with respect to playing another year of ACC ball. I don't think his actions were deliberately "in your face," but kids do strange things, and sometimes life is like a pachinko machine. You end up where you end up with no real idea how you got there. Now, P.J. has made some mistakes, every one of which has been front page headlines in NC and now nationally. How does he go back to the team? How does he play in front of a highly skeptical UNC crowd. And what about playing at other venues? Remember when former UNC PG Ed Cota refused to play at Cameron with a touring team 'cuz he had failed to make the NBA? What would it be like for P.J.? And then there is State, which would be far worse than the keys jangling in Cameron. And he wouldn't get any breaks at any arena with attentive fans.

My personal advice to P.J. would be "Cut your losses; go play overseas." Now there is another line of reasoning where a season at UNC is a "trial by fire" that will build character for any player in this circumstance. But the upcoming season could be really ugly. I don't see why he needs it.

sagegrouse

[OldPhiKap]

The ACC may have seen the last of P.J. And while I have made clear why he merits dismissal from the UNC team, there is another factor.

P.J. is in a very awkward place with respect to playing another year of ACC ball. I don't think his actions were deliberately "in your face," but kids do strange things, and sometimes life is like a pachinko machine. You end up where you end up with no real idea how you got there. Now, P.J. has made some mistakes, every one of which has been front page headlines in NC and now nationally. How does he go back to the team? How does he play in front of a highly skeptical UNC crowd. And what about playing at other venues? Remember when former UNC PG Ed Cota refused to play at Cameron with a touring team 'cuz he had failed to make the NBA? What would it be like for P.J.? And then there is State, which would be far worse than the keys jangling in Cameron. And he wouldn't get any breaks at any arena with attentive fans.

My personal advice to P.J. would be "Cut your losses; go play overseas." Now there is another line of reasoning where a season at UNC is a "trial by fire" that will build character for any player in this circumstance. But the upcoming season could be really ugly. I don't see why he needs it.

sagegrouse
This is also very possible.

Which is the best route to the NBA? Half a year in college with a target on your back (and folks bringing this subject up) or go knock down 20ppg in Barcelona as a rookie and let this story fade away?

Probably the latter.

[allenmurray]

I recognize that some kids, especially minorities, do not have the same life view of society and what's acceptable, or not, that maybe you and I do.

Having spent many years as a public school administrator, working primarily with high school age students, in a low-income, minority-majority school system I find that statement the worst kind of apologist thinking (usually engaged in by do-gooder types, who tend to be quite liberal in their politics). It tends to allow kids to escape "small problems", develop an attitude of invincibility until they face a large problem, and then find themselves in way over their head. Sounds exactly like the current situation.

There were few phrases or ideas that George Bush had with which I agreed, but one was that holding minority groups to lesser standards than others did them a great dis-service. His phrase for this was "the soft bigotry of low expectations". Giving Hairston a "break" in expectations because he is from a minority group is precisely that - "the soft bigotry of low expectations". Do you propose that Hairston's standards of behavior and his knowledge of what is and is not acceptable (and even criminal) behavior are different because he is from a minority group? If so, you have just insulted both he and his parents to an incredible degree. Do you propose that standards should be different because he is from a minority group? If not, what prompted your above statement.

Wow. All this time I though it was just because as a UNC fan you wanted to watch him play. Now I see it is a desire for social engineering on your part. Wheat - the bleeding heart liberal.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Having spent many years as a public school administrator, working primarily with high school age students, in a low-income, minority-majority school system I find that statement the worst kind of apologist thinking (usually engaged in by do-gooder types, who tend to be quite liberal in their politics). It tends to allow kids to escape "small problems", develop an attitude of invincibility until they face a large problem, and then find themselves in way over their head. Sounds exactly like the current situation.

There were few phrases or ideas that George Bush had with which I agreed, but one was that holding minority groups to lesser standards than others did them a great dis-service. His phrase for this was "the soft bigotry of low expectations". Giving Hairston a "break" in expectations because he is from a minority group is precisely that - "the soft bigotry of low expectations". Do you propose that Hairston's standards of behavior and his knowledge of what is and is not acceptable (and even criminal) behavior are different because he is from a minority group? If so, you have just insulted both he and his parents to an incredible degree. Do you propose that standards should be different because he is from a minority group? If not, what prompted your above statement.

Wow. All this time I though it was just because as a UNC fan you wanted to watch him play. Now I see it is a desire for social engineering on your part. Wheat - the bleeding heart liberal.

I don't hold him to lower level of expectations as a minority, and I do not propose that he get a "break" because he's a minority.
Suspending him for a semester would be a serious penalty from the mistakes I see he has made. I'd say the same for any player, any color, at any school.

To refuse to recognize his upbringing when trying to understand his actions would not be fair to the kid as the decision is being made on how to help him. And helping him is what should happen. He's immature and his judgement is not very good. How's dismissing him, sending him overseas or the D league gonna help him? Doing that would be the easy way out here, and I don't see Roy taking it.

Sure, I'd like to see him play from a competitive standpoint. But I think they will still be pretty good without him. Either way, it doesn't really matter to me. I'll just enjoy watching the team develop, whoever is out there on the floor for UNC.

[Duvall]

I don't hold him to lower level of expectations as a minority, and I do not propose that he get a "break" because he's a minority.
Suspending him for a semester would be a serious penalty from the mistakes I see he has made. I'd say the same for any player, any color, at any school.

To refuse to recognize his upbringing when trying to understand his actions would not be fair to the kid as the decision is being made on how to help him. And helping him is what should happen. He's immature and his judgement is not very good. How's dismissing him, sending him overseas or the D league gonna help him? Doing that would be the easy way out here, and I don't see Roy taking it.



What specifically about Hairston's upbringing are you talking about here?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

What specifically about Hairston's upbringing are you talking about here?

I'm not going to get into anything specific, I was speaking about differences in backgrounds generally and how I believe that should be taken into account when evaluating decisions that will affect his future.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I'm not going to get into anything specific, I was speaking about differences in backgrounds generally and how I believe that should be taken into account when evaluating decisions that will affect his future.
Painted yourself into a corner, huh?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Painted yourself into a corner, huh?

Not really. I don't personally know anything specific about his background and I could only add more speculation...just what we need.

[CPDUKEGUY24]

...until they play Kentucky :/

[Duvall]

Not really. I don't personally know anything specific about his background and I could only add more speculation...just what we need.

Then why were you admonishing people for "refus[ing] to recognize his upbringing"?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Then why were you admonishing people for "refus[ing] to recognize his upbringing"?

Why not? It was a reasonable point.

[Indoor66]

Why not? It was a reasonable point.

Come on, Wheat. It is only reasonable if you base it on facts and knowledge and you don't, by your own admission, do not have either facts or knowledge. Your "point" is meaningless.

[muzikfrk75]

I mean really, do you expect anything else? I don't think he'll miss a single game.

Howard

This.

[MarkD83]

Why not? It was a reasonable point.

I have only scanned the discussion about reasons for PJs actions and feel that we need to distinguish the various actions that PJ has taken.

The legal system will and has been taking care of the speeding tickets etc. The reasons for his actions may play a role in the penalties but the penalties are pretty "cut and dry" ... lose your liscense, pay a fine......

Borrowing a rental car from someone who allegedly is an agent or UNC booster also has some "cut and dry" penalties if the NCAA gets involved.

The penalties that Roy and UNC basketball assess (number of games PJ is suspended) could be about the reason that PJ got another speeding ticket after Roy talked to him. If it involved disrespect or lying to the coach, the suspension is a large number. If UNC sees a self-imposed suspension as a way to mitigate the issue of borrowing a rental car than the reasons for PJ's actions are irrelevant and the penalty is as small as UNC feels it can get away with.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Come on, Wheat. It is only reasonable if you base it on facts and knowledge and you don't, by your own admission, do not have either facts or knowledge. Your "point" is meaningless.

You're free to ignore it then if you think my point is not reasonable, right?

[Duvall]

You're free to ignore it then if you think my point is not reasonable, right?

Not really, no.

You clearly meant *something* when you suggested that people take Hairston's "upbringing" into account. To what were you referring, and why did you think it applied to Hairston in particular?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Borrowing a rental car from someone who allegedly is an agent or UNC booster also has some "cut and dry" penalties if the NCAA gets involved.


I don't think anyone has alleged this Fats guy is an agent. It's unlikely, but not clear whether he can be classified as a booster.

It certainly looks like it will be classified as an "impermissible benefit" which will get him an NCAA penalty of some sort.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

You're free to ignore it then if you think my point is not reasonable, right?
Wheat, you're often pretty reasonable. But at the moment you sound like a petulant UNC brat stomping around with your fingers in your ears. Give this one up, dude. If you had no knowledge, then you made an assertion based on race/minority status with which I suspect many would take serious issue.

[Turtleboy]

I have only scanned the discussion about reasons for PJs actions and feel that we need to distinguish the various actions that PJ has taken.

The legal system will and has been taking care of the speeding tickets etc. The reasons for his actions may play a role in the penalties but the penalties are pretty "cut and dry" ... lose your liscense, pay a fine......

Borrowing a rental car from someone who allegedly is an agent or UNC booster also has some "cut and dry" penalties if the NCAA gets involved.

The penalties that Roy and UNC basketball assess (number of games PJ is suspended) could be about the reason that PJ got another speeding ticket after Roy talked to him. If it involved
disrespect or lying to the coach, the suspension is a large number. If UNC sees a self-imposed suspension as a way to mitigate the issue of borrowing a rental car than the reasons for PJ's actions are irrelevant and the penalty is as small as UNC feels it can get away with."Cut and dried." Look it up.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

If you had no knowledge, then you made an assertion based on race/minority status with which I suspect many would take serious issue.

I said I had no specific knowledge of how he grew up, or his "upbringing". I know a little general info from what I read.

I also said..."I don't hold him to lower level of expectations as a minority, and I do not propose that he get a "break" because he's a minority.
Suspending him for a semester would be a serious penalty from the mistakes I see he has made. I'd say the same for any player, any color, at any school."

And I also said..."I was speaking about differences in backgrounds generally and how I believe that should be taken into account when evaluating decisions that will affect his future."

Allenmurry is right, we have to guard against the "the soft bigotry of low expectations".

If we can balance that with a little understanding, maybe PJ will pay his piper, grow up, understand his mistakes, come back in January, have no more problems, get to the NBA, watch his money, have a fine career and family and one day look back on this time and say to himself, "boy was I a dumb kid, glad people stood by me and let me have another chance".

[77devil]

I said I had no specific knowledge of how he grew up, or his "upbringing". I know a little general info from what I read.

I also said..."I don't hold him to lower level of expectations as a minority, and I do not propose that he get a "break" because he's a minority.
Suspending him for a semester would be a serious penalty from the mistakes I see he has made. I'd say the same for any player, any color, at any school."

And I also said..."I was speaking about differences in backgrounds generally and how I believe that should be taken into account when evaluating decisions that will affect his future."

Allenmurry is right, we have to guard against the "the soft bigotry of low expectations".

If we can balance that with a little understanding, maybe PJ will pay his piper, grow up, understand his mistakes, come back in January, have no more problems, get to the NBA, watch his money, have a fine career and family and one day look back on this time and say to himself, "boy was I a dumb kid, glad people stood by me and let me have another chance".

I'd ding you if I could be because you are just being argumentative. I guess the charters must be slow since your spending a lot of time on the board. Suggest you go fishing for awhile and stop digging yourself in deeper. At this point you're just trolling

[devil84]

At this point you're just trolling

A friendly reminder to all:

DNFTT*

*Do Not Feed The Trolls.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I'd ding you if I could be because you are just being argumentative. I guess the charters must be slow since your spending a lot of time on the board. Suggest you go fishing for awhile and stop digging yourself in deeper. At this point you're just trolling

I guess I can be a little stubborn, because I try to respond to everyone that directs a post to me and give an honest, civil reply...and the posts just keep coming.

As for fishing, I like to take this time of year off, it's a little hot for me to be on the water every day after a long season. I'd rather be in an air conditioned poker room, or spending my time with this iPad following my hoops obsession.

[OldPhiKap]

I guess I can be a little stubborn, because I try to respond to everyone that directs a post to me and give an honest, civil reply...and the posts just keep coming.

As for fishing, I like to take this time of year off, it's a little hot for me to be on the water every day after a long season. I'd rather be in an air conditioned poker room, or spending my time with this iPad following my hoops obsession.

Friendly reminder: you're playing out of position here. Don't donk.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I guess I can be a little stubborn, because I try to respond to everyone that directs a post to me and give an honest, civil reply...and the posts just keep coming.

As for fishing, I like to take this time of year off, it's a little hot for me to be on the water every day after a long season. I'd rather be in an air conditioned poker room, or spending my time with this iPad following my hoops obsession.

I do have too much respect for you to think you are trolling, but I think you are backtracking like crazy and taking any path available. I would advise quitting while you are only behind 32 points...

If I were Roy - or even just a UNC fan - I would be livid with the sheer audacity of PJ getting busted for this most recent offense. Being pompous enough to do something as blatantly absurd as drive 30mph over the speed limit days after skating on you high profile second offense... it is either a well-oiled sense of entitlement or stupidity. No other explanation. Either one speaks poorly for his respect towards coach and university.

PJ needs to grow up, that much is clear. The longer he stays in that hideous blue uniform, the more he makes a mockery of Roy. Head to Europe, make enough money for your own vehicles, then find a spot on the Bobcats roster.

Go Duke!

[brevity]

I would advise quitting while you are only behind 32 points...

Methinks that 32 was not a random number (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=300650150).

Back on topic, I said 10 games, but the more I think about it, the less I care. I'm not exactly rooting for Carolina integrity. I just want no excuses when they play Duke. I'm okay if PJ has rejoined the team by December, played the first half of the conference schedule, really meshed well... and they lose to Duke anyway. Or maybe the Heels are irrelevant with him and without him. That'll be good too.

[dukechem]

With all this time devoted to summer adventures, I'm curious whether PJ is working out to improve his game. Anyone have any information about whether he's been doing anything constructive with his time?

[allenmurray]

I do have too much respect for you to think you are trolling

Many long-time posters on this board recognize that he has always been a troll - a good one who is so subtle that folks think he is not. A lone UNC poster on a Duke board who politely trolls is a troll none the less. I've always been puzzled by the esteem in which he is held by some posters.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

With all this time devoted to summer adventures, I'm curious whether PJ is working out to improve his game. Anyone have any information about whether he's been doing anything constructive with his time?
I heard he's been working hard to improve his speed.

[Furniture]

His shooting has gone to pot!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Many long-time posters on this board recognize that he has always been a troll - a good one who is so subtle that folks think he is not. A lone UNC poster on a Duke board who politely trolls is a troll none the less. I've always been puzzled by the esteem in which he is held by some posters.

As another "long-time poster," I respectfully disagree. While Wheat certain does have a tendency towards baby blue blinders (who can fault him for that?) and does get overly defensive on occasion, I generally very much enjoy his input on the threads. Say what you will about his affinity for the wrong team, Wheat does not shy away from coming here after UNC losses or missteps. At the end of the day, there are lots of professed Duke fans who sometimes offer much more critical and disparate points of view. Granted, sometimes Wheat's blinders and defensiveness can go so far as to be high comedy for the most ardent Duke fans, but I really don't think he's a troll in the classic sense.

Additionally, one of the things I enjoy about this board in particular is that the moderators allow for some dissenting view points and it is generally a place that is open to fans of other teams. I sincerely doubt that most of us would be humored on the Inside Carolina board, or even Pack Pride for that matter.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, I still maintain that PJ has to be booted. I think it's best for him and for the team. Beyond the fact that PJ has flaunted his general disdain for the program and exhibited his disinterest in college rules, given the glacial pace at which the NCAA performs investigations it is quite possible that a short suspension might be completed before the NCAA has completed their findings in the Fats incident(s). That puts Roy in the uncomfortable position of deciding whether or not to play him with the possibility of vacated wins. From PJ's point of view, as someone mentioned upthread (or in the other threads - forgive me for not going back to find it) playing in ACC games will mean that his transgressions will remain a constant topic of conversation around the team, whereas if he goes and plays in Spain, he can get on the court ASAP, hone his skills, and prove himself against other professionals before throwing his name in the draft.

My prediction is that, rather than be "kicked off the team" there will be an announcement that PJ and UNC are parting ways. I think there's not much benefit to either Harriston or UNC at continuing this charade.

Go Duke!

[Troublemaker]

While Wheat can often be troll-y, I don't see how he's being one in this thread.

And for the most part, I agree with his take here. Not the throwaway line about Hairston's "upbringing" that is getting so much focus, but with everything else. We've all been in toxic relationships (whether it be significant other, family, or friend) where we have to give up on the other person and move on, but there's no handbook for that type of thing that you can reference and know exactly when to do so. Since this particular relationship between Roy and Hairston is (presumably) teacher/student, I would lean towards even more leniency than usual. A one semester suspension seems fine to me but I have no beef with anyone who disagrees.

[sagegrouse]

Wheat is our Tariq Aziz and Anastas Mikoyan. Aziz was a Christian and foreign minister in Saddam Hussein's regime, the only non-Muslim in the government. Mikoyan, an Armenian, was the ultimate survivor of the Soviet era, lasting from Lenin through Stalin, Khrushchev and Brezhnev -- and gave a non-Russian face to the regime.

Wheat's presence, pretty well tolerated here, is important because it proves that we are an open and welcoming site -- just like Hussein's Iraq and Stalin's Soviet Union.

sagegrouse
'Just kidding'

[77devil]

Wheat is our Tariq Aziz and Anastas Mikoyan. Aziz was a Christian and foreign minister in Saddam Hussein's regime, the only non-Muslim in the government. Mikoyan, an Armenian, was the ultimate survivor of the Soviet era, lasting from Lenin through Stalin, Khrushchev and Brezhnev -- and gave a non-Russian face to the regime.

Wheat's presence, pretty well tolerated here, is important because it proves that we are an open and welcoming site -- just like Hussein's Iraq and Stalin's Soviet Union.

sagegrouse
'Just kidding'

I find Wheat more akin to Baghdad Bob, stubborn, defiant, and utterly preposterous in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[Duvall]

And helping him is what should happen. He's immature and his judgement is not very good. How's dismissing him, sending him overseas or the D league gonna help him? Doing that would be the easy way out here, and I don't see Roy taking it.

Wanted to come back to this. Are you really arguing that going into a season without a single above-average or better player with college experience would be the "easy way out" for UNC?

[hudlow]

Wanted to come back to this. Are you really arguing that going into a season without a single above-average or better player with college experience would be the "easy way out" for UNC?

Dagummit...it's not my fault....

[Kfanarmy]

Many long-time posters on this board recognize that he has always been a troll - a good one who is so subtle that folks think he is not. A lone UNC poster on a Duke board who politely trolls is a troll none the less. I've always been puzzled by the esteem in which he is held by some posters.

This reflects an extremely broad definition of "trolling."

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wanted to come back to this. Are you really arguing that going into a season without a single above-average or better player with college experience would be the "easy way out" for UNC?

I'm saying dismissing PJ from the team would be the easy way out for Roy, but I don't expect him to do it.

If Roy kicked him to the curb, there would be no real outcry. The fans would shrug and say he was a screw up that hurt the program and he deserved it. Most would, anyways.

Roy wouldn't have to deal with any possibility of a future mistake. The NCAA stuff would probably go away. The negative press would die down after a few weeks and it would all be over except for Dickie V bringing it up every televised game for a 15 second sermon...

The hard route will be suspending him, worrying if he's gonna make another mistake every day, answering all the people that will say Roy's weak, or cares more about winning, or that he should have been dismissed, dealing with questions about him as the season goes along, and dealing with team chemistry when he does come back.

I believe that Roy is likely to stick with him and try to get him back on track, if PJ can convince him he understands how deep the water is he's swimming in.

It's not about whether the team will be better with PJ, that's pretty apparent. It would be. Some of you will think its all about the games and winning, I don't buy that. Feel free to disagree.

Of course Roy wants to win, but he's not going to take the risk of further damaging the program if he doesn't think PJ understands his responsibilities better and is willing to commit to the program.

I'm also saying this team is not going to be bad without him. Some of you are underestimating the potential of this team, even without PJ.

McAdoo is a potential all-American. Brice Johnson is a stud getting better by the day. Paige is an all ACC quality PG. Joel James has potential as a strong post presence that's also getting better. Hubert is a strong defender, developing offensively, McDonald is a steady quality player, Tokoto is strong, active and athletic. Simmons is a player that can't be overlooked for what he brings.

And who knows yet about the highly rated Hicks, Meeks and if Britt can provide some quality court time?

It's a team that will defend and rebound, but might struggle to score at times.

I'm not predicting anything about this season with or without PJ, other than to say UNC will not be a pushover for anyone.

[oldnavy]

I'm saying dismissing PJ from the team would be the easy way out for Roy, but I don't expect him to do it.

If Roy kicked him to the curb, there would be no real outcry. The fans would shrug and say he was a screw up that hurt the program and he deserved it. Most would, anyways.

Roy wouldn't have to deal with any possibility of a future mistake. The NCAA stuff would probably go away. The negative press would die down after a few weeks and it would all be over except for Dickie V bringing it up every televised game for a 15 second sermon...

The hard route will be suspending him, worrying if he's gonna make another mistake every day, answering all the people that will say Roy's weak, or cares more about winning, or that he should have been dismissed, dealing with questions about him as the season goes along, and dealing with team chemistry when he does come back.

I believe that Roy is likely to stick with him and try to get him back on track, if PJ can convince him he understands how deep the water is he's swimming in.

It's not about whether the team will be better with PJ, that's pretty apparent. It would be. Some of you will think its all about the games and winning, I don't buy that. Feel free to disagree.

Of course Roy wants to win, but he's not going to take the risk of further damaging the program if he doesn't think PJ understands his responsibilities better and is willing to commit to the program.

I'm also saying this team is not going to be bad without him. Some of you are underestimating the potential of this team, even without PJ.

McAdoo is a potential all-American. Brice Johnson is a stud getting better by the day. Paige is an all ACC quality PG. Joel James has potential as a strong post presence that's also getting better. Hubert is a strong defender, developing offensively, McDonald is a steady quality player, Tokoto is strong, active and athletic. Simmons is a player that can't be overlooked for what he brings.

And who knows yet about the highly rated Hicks, Meeks and if Britt can provide some quality court time?

It's a team that will defend and rebound, but might struggle to score at times.

I'm not predicting anything about this season with or without PJ, other than to say UNC will not be a pushover for anyone.

Having been in several situations during my career where I had to determine punishment for sailors, I do not envy Ol' Roy. As much as I like to poke him, he has a lot of responsibility here. Only those close to the situation are in a place to judge what should be done and I can tell you that there is always more to the story... rarely are these punishment cases cut and dried. I will defer to Roy and whatever he decides to do because I have no idea of what has gone on or what has been done already with PJ. This could be the last straw of a series of things (known and unknown) or it could just be the first stages of acting out and a terrible run of bad "luck" from an otherwise "good kid" (I tend to doubt this, but who knows?).

Having said that, I think it would be easier from the outsider perspective to dump PJ. It would give Roy a built in excuse if the team falters, and any amount of success could be attributed to Roy's coaching... (cough, cough).

I think it will be interesting how it all plays out.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Having been in several situations during my career where I had to determine punishment for sailors, I do not envy Ol' Roy. As much as I like to poke him, he has a lot of responsibility here. Only those close to the situation are in a place to judge what should be done and I can tell you that there is always more to the story... rarely are these punishment cases cut and dried. I will defer to Roy and whatever he decides to do because I have no idea of what has gone on or what has been done already with PJ. This could be the last straw of a series of things (known and unknown) or it could just be the first stages of acting out and a terrible run of bad "luck" from an otherwise "good kid" (I tend to doubt this, but who knows?).

Having said that, I think it would be easier from the outsider perspective to dump PJ. It would give Roy a built in excuse if the team falters, and any amount of success could be attributed to Roy's coaching... (cough, cough).

I think it will be interesting how it all plays out.

Thank you for being reasonable. Although you don't need them, plenty of pitchforks for you.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I'm saying dismissing PJ from the team would be the easy way out for Roy, but I don't expect him to do it.

If Roy kicked him to the curb, there would be no real outcry. The fans would shrug and say he was a screw up that hurt the program and he deserved it. Most would, anyways.

Roy wouldn't have to deal with any possibility of a future mistake. The NCAA stuff would probably go away. The negative press would die down after a few weeks and it would all be over except for Dickie V bringing it up every televised game for a 15 second sermon...

The hard route will be suspending him, worrying if he's gonna make another mistake every day, answering all the people that will say Roy's weak, or cares more about winning, or that he should have been dismissed, dealing with questions about him as the season goes along, and dealing with team chemistry when he does come back.

I believe that Roy is likely to stick with him and try to get him back on track, if PJ can convince him he understands how deep the water is he's swimming in.

It's not about whether the team will be better with PJ, that's pretty apparent. It would be. Some of you will think its all about the games and winning, I don't buy that. Feel free to disagree.

Of course Roy wants to win, but he's not going to take the risk of further damaging the program if he doesn't think PJ understands his responsibilities better and is willing to commit to the program.

I'm also saying this team is not going to be bad without him. Some of you are underestimating the potential of this team, even without PJ.

McAdoo is a potential all-American. Brice Johnson is a stud getting better by the day. Paige is an all ACC quality PG. Joel James has potential as a strong post presence that's also getting better. Hubert is a strong defender, developing offensively, McDonald is a steady quality player, Tokoto is strong, active and athletic. Simmons is a player that can't be overlooked for what he brings.

And who knows yet about the highly rated Hicks, Meeks and if Britt can provide some quality court time?

It's a team that will defend and rebound, but might struggle to score at times.

I'm not predicting anything about this season with or without PJ, other than to say UNC will not be a pushover for anyone.
I kinda feel like you have it backwards...

I think there's another equally (if not more?) likely reason for Roy NOT to dismiss PJ... keeping him from talking publicly. Dismiss him and you could easily have another Marvin Austin situation. Keep him on the team and you have a better chance of suppressing further details from coming out.

Just my opinion - and a skeptical one at that. But I think there's merit to it. Even if no one wants to acknowledge the truth in this.

[Duvall]

I'm also saying this team is not going to be bad without him. Some of you are underestimating the potential of this team, even without PJ.

McAdoo is a potential all-American. Brice Johnson is a stud getting better by the day. Paige is an all ACC quality PG. Joel James has potential as a strong post presence that's also getting better. Hubert is a strong defender, developing offensively, McDonald is a steady quality player, Tokoto is strong, active and athletic. Simmons is a player that can't be overlooked for what he brings.

And who knows yet about the highly rated Hicks, Meeks and if Britt can provide some quality court time?

It's a team that will defend and rebound, but might struggle to score at times.

Except...why? Why would you think any of this? What did Paige show last year other than an occasional ability to make threes against weak opposition to make you think he's capable of being an All-ACC quality PG this season? What has McAdoo shown at any point in his career to make you think he's capable of being an average player, let alone an All-American?


I'm not predicting anything about this season with or without PJ, other than to say UNC will not be a pushover for anyone.

We should probably come back to this if UNC plays Louisville and Kentucky without Hairston, because in that scenario UNC would in fact be pushed over.

[ncexnyc]

Love seeing UNC fans spouting the same old lame mantra that Duke can't develop big men. Next time you hear it you can ask that person why Post U. had to play a legit 4 as their starting 5 for most of last season.

[Furniture]

Greensboro News and Record thoughts on PJ.
http://www.news-record.com/news/columns/article_e07314ae-f956-11e2-8ecc-0019bb30f31a.html?mode=jqm

The most telling part is:

"Less than two weeks later, he was stopped by a state trooper near Salisbury while weaving in and out of traffic and driving almost 30 mph over the speed limit. He might as well have had his middle finger out the window wagging it at Williams and Carolina".

[jv001]

One of my very best friends who is a unc graduate had this to say after pj's latest numb skull moment in his life. " roy should go ahead and dismiss him from the team. pj has no regard for the team and program. It's all about him.". My friend and fellow weekly golfer is not the type of person to say anything bad about anyone. That includes players from other teams as well. GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

One of my very best friends who is a unc graduate had this to say after pj's latest numb skull moment in his life. " roy should go ahead and dismiss him from the team. pj has no regard for the team and program. It's all about him.". My friend and fellow weekly golfer is not the type of person to say anything bad about anyone. That includes players from other teams as well. GoDuke!

I thnk there is a lot of sentiment along these lines.

We all know that Roy doesn't give a @#$# what the fans think -- he proves that every call-in show -- but he certainly has public cover to implement a tough punishment.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I thnk there is a lot of sentiment along these lines.

We all know that Roy doesn't give a @#$# what the fans think -- he proves that every call-in show -- but he certainly has public cover to implement a tough punishment.

Yep, Roy could care less what anyone else thinks. It will all come down to his relationship with PJ...and whether PJ can convince him he can and will become more responsible.

[jv001]

Yep, Roy could care less what anyone else thinks. It will all come down to his relationship with PJ...and whether PJ can convince him he can and will become more responsible.

As roy weighs his absence with his won/lost record.

[Kedsy]

As roy weighs his absence with his won/lost record.

I had been attempting to stay out of this debate, but I have a few questions:

-- Do we care that a 20-year-old gets a couple of speeding tickets?

-- Do we care that a kid goes driving and leaves his license at home?

-- Do we care that a 20-year-old smokes a little weed?

-- Do we care that a UNC basketball player is as stone-cold stupid as PJ Hairston appears to be?

-- Do we care that a UNC basketball player gives the (figurative) finger to Roy and the program/university?

-- Do we care that a minor NCAA violation (the car rental thing) has occurred in Chapel Hill?

Speaking only for myself, I don't care about any of those things. I care about the gun, but PJ wasn't actually charged with the gun. I'd care if the NCAA were about to levy major penalties against UNC, but unless there's a lot more to this car rental business a stiff penalty seems unlikely to happen. And even so, it's not like an improper benefit of a few hundred dollars threatens amateur athletics as we know it.

So let's face it, the only reason this thread is a zillion pages long is because we are weighing PJ's absence against Roy's win/loss record. The only difference is we want him to lose and Roy wants to win.

I guess I just don't feel there's any high ground here.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I had been attempting to stay out of this debate, but I have a few questions:

-- Do we care that a 20-year-old gets a couple of speeding tickets?

-- Do we care that a kid goes driving and leaves his license at home?

-- Do we care that a 20-year-old smokes a little weed?

-- Do we care that a UNC basketball player is as stone-cold stupid as PJ Hairston appears to be?

-- Do we care that a UNC basketball player gives the (figurative) finger to Roy and the program/university?

-- Do we care that a minor NCAA violation (the car rental thing) has occurred in Chapel Hill?

Speaking only for myself, I don't care about any of those things. I care about the gun, but PJ wasn't actually charged with the gun. I'd care if the NCAA were about to levy major penalties against UNC, but unless there's a lot more to this car rental business a stiff penalty seems unlikely to happen. And even so, it's not like an improper benefit of a few hundred dollars threatens amateur athletics as we know it.

So let's face it, the only reason this thread is a zillion pages long is because we are weighing PJ's absence against Roy's win/loss record. The only difference is we want him to lose and Roy wants to win.

I guess I just don't feel there's any high ground here.

We also care because it's the off-season and, in all honesty, what else is there to discuss? I think we've maxed out discussions about schedules, minutes per player, cinder blocks, vigils, and who-plays-the-5.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I had been attempting to stay out of this debate, but I have a few questions:

...


So let's face it, the only reason this thread is a zillion pages long is because we are weighing PJ's absence against Roy's win/loss record.

I would argue the only reason this/these threads is/are so lengthy is because it's August. Were there actual games to discuss, it would be a side-note.

Go Duke!

[77devil]

I had been attempting to stay out of this debate, but I have a few questions:

-- Do we care that a 20-year-old gets a couple of speeding tickets?

-- Do we care that a kid goes driving and leaves his license at home?

-- Do we care that a 20-year-old smokes a little weed?

-- Do we care that a UNC basketball player is as stone-cold stupid as PJ Hairston appears to be?

-- Do we care that a UNC basketball player gives the (figurative) finger to Roy and the program/university?

-- Do we care that a minor NCAA violation (the car rental thing) has occurred in Chapel Hill?

Speaking only for myself, I don't care about any of those things. I care about the gun, but PJ wasn't actually charged with the gun. I'd care if the NCAA were about to levy major penalties against UNC, but unless there's a lot more to this car rental business a stiff penalty seems unlikely to happen. And even so, it's not like an improper benefit of a few hundred dollars threatens amateur athletics as we know it.

So let's face it, the only reason this thread is a zillion pages long is because we are weighing PJ's absence against Roy's win/loss record. The only difference is we want him to lose and Roy wants to win.

I guess I just don't feel there's any high ground here.

I, too, have largely avoided the thread except to harass Wheat which I do on principle. I only care because I want P.J. off the team for the season so that Duke can pummel the Heels unmercifully. I'm not one to pontificate about the need for parity to maintain the rivalry. Quite the contrary, I relished the absolute dominance from 1999-2004 and would enjoy nothing more than to see the Heels unravel again like 2010.

Who needs the high ground in this context? Not me, maybe you.

[wilko]

I had been attempting to stay out of this debate, but I have a few questions:

-- Do we care that a 20-year-old gets a couple of speeding tickets?
-- Do we care that a kid goes driving and leaves his license at home?
-- Do we care that a 20-year-old smokes a little weed?
-- Do we care that a UNC basketball player is as stone-cold stupid as PJ Hairston appears to be?
-- Do we care that a UNC basketball player gives the (figurative) finger to Roy and the program/university?
-- Do we care that a minor NCAA violation (the car rental thing) has occurred in Chapel Hill?

So let's face it, the only reason this thread is a zillion pages long is because we are weighing PJ's absence against Roy's win/loss record. The only difference is we want him to lose and Roy wants to win.


I agree with all of your conclusions. The one nit I have would be that you didn't properly emphasize that its just plain fun to kick the snot out of UNC and torment their fan base.
Cant lose sight of the priorities.

Whatever I may or may not have done in college, I can absolutely say I did not get caught or was in the position to get caught. THAT's the real unpardonable sin.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

-- Do we care that a UNC basketball player gives the (figurative) finger to Roy and the program/university?


I've seen this opinion around and I'm not so sure it's fair to PJ. We've seen no animosity from him towards Roy or UNC that would (figuratively) equate to giving the finger to Roy and UNC.

Since he didn't heed Roy's warning prior to that last speeding/reckless to chill, I can see how some would arrive at that conclusion, but I just don't see PJ's actions as deliberatly, consciously saying to himself..."Screw coach, I'm gonna do what I want".

I see him as an immature kid who doesn't think it all through, who's judgement is poor, who has made mistakes...not one that is the type to talk back, take short cuts, and knowingly see what he can get away with.

That's just my gut opinion from following his time at UNC from a distance....a long distance.

[Duvall]

I would argue the only reason this/these threads is/are so lengthy is because it's August. Were there actual games to discuss, it would be a side-note.

Go Duke!

There's also the puzzle aspect to the story, figuring out the different elements of the story and how they fit together, and the rubbernecking aspect.

I don't think that either grants much of a high ground, but it's a bit less cynical than looking for another reason for UNC to lose.

[hudlow]

Can't help to think what if the shoe was on the other foot...

I've always been told...you gotta get while you can.

[jv001]

I, too, have largely avoided the thread except to harass Wheat which I do on principle. I only care because I want P.J. off the team for the season so that Duke can pummel the Heels unmercifully. I'm not one to pontificate about the need for parity to maintain the rivalry. Quite the contrary, I relished the absolute dominance from 1999-2004 and would enjoy nothing more than to see the Heels unravel again like 2010.

Who needs the high ground in this context? Not me, maybe you.

It's not the fact that pj made mistakes, it's that he made them more than once. I'm not one to cast the first stone(guess I did). I'm just a sinner saved by God's Amazing Grace. So, I'll just sit this one out from here on. Best wishes for pj to get his life in order. GoDuke!

[BD80]

... I guess I just don't feel there's any high ground here.

Wherever PJ was standing.

ba-da-boom.