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greybeard
08-01-2013, 12:31 PM
The headline article here today informs that the NCAA is looking at the likely prospect of a class action lawsuit for failing to take appropriate action, one presumes enact and enforce appropriate game-rules, that protect against brain trauma in several sports, and I think also the failure to provide for the cost of health, rehabilitative, and other costs down the road as a consequence of such trauma. In my view, such a lawsuit is well past time, as are similar class actions focusing on other life altering injuries such as torn ACLs and other significant knee injuries, and other similar injuries to major joints (they're all major) if the numbers warrant, which they do with regard to many, many types of joint injuries.

So, the first shoe is about to fall, and the second in my view will not be far behind. The final shoe will be when school districts and individual private and public high schools and prep schools begin to be hit with similar lawsuits.

I have long written that dramatic changes in NFL rules will occur to protect player safety because of pressure from the bottom up. It has begun. There will be rule changes at the high school and college level directed at all sports, primarily football. The NCAA is likely to cave. "The Times They Are A Changin," or more accurately, are about to change, big time. I think that that is good.

MChambers
08-01-2013, 12:35 PM
I have long written that dramatic changes in NFL rules will occur to protect player safety because of pressure from the bottom up. It has begun. There will be rule changes at the high school and college level directed at all sports, primarily football. The NCAA is likely to cave. "The Times They Are A Changin," or more accurately, are about to change, big time. I think that that is good.

I hope you are right. I don't understand how fielding a football team, as the sport is played currently, with the likelihood of brain trauma, is consistent with being an educational institution. I'm less concerned than you about joint injuries, however.

MarkD83
08-01-2013, 12:39 PM
It will be interesting to track how many talented athletes would move to other sports.

My guess is that basketball might gain some players and baseball, but the real winner would be lacrosse. There are so many high schools and colleges that do not have lacrosse that there could be a major explosion in this sport.

Dev11
08-01-2013, 12:47 PM
It will be interesting to track how many talented athletes would move to other sports.

My guess is that basketball might gain some players and baseball, but the real winner would be lacrosse. There are so many high schools and colleges that do not have lacrosse that there could be a major explosion in this sport.

Lax has a lot of the violence that people love about football, but without so much full-body, full-speed contact. I agree, it will be a big winner.

No sport, however, is as complex as football in terms of game schemes, and no sport works for fantasy sports as perfectly.

greybeard
08-01-2013, 01:56 PM
I think that football, which I agree is completely out of step with the ethos of any educational institution at any level, drives the bus with regard to other sports, soccer, lax, basketball, you name it. By "drive the bus" I mean fostering a culture of over-the-top athleticism and athletic plays to create the thrill, the buzz, to draw fans and dollars. These other sports, I believe, from the earliest ages on, demand ultra physical training by very effective trainers to make players more powerful, quicker, agile, etc. (include incredible jumping ability that is widespread in all sports today) that make all these sports more dangerous. Coaches than coach to match the athleticism with styles built on strategies that take max advantage of this "athleticism" which is to say place athletes at much greater risk than the elan of sport, the definition of "sport" and "games" permits. Yet it is not only permitted, but also adored.

Football provides the tools for such physical development, and legitimizes play that abuses it. The money behind football, now captured by the health (narcissism) industry, makes year-round "training" the sine qua non for participation at all levels. No longer is skill along with reasonable athleticism the passport to playing these games, but now times in the 40, high scores in agility, explosiveness, strength, jumping ability are required to get on the field. There you must use it. Injuries in the sports grow exponentially and the only question asked is "how soon will he or she be able to come back.

No one would argue that brain injuries deserve first attention, are the most devastating but I think that the other injuries I mentioned are far more debilitating in the out years after one's 20s and progressively more debilitating as time passes than most people are aware. It is no fun going through life with torn ACLs, with ankles that don't function properly, with shoulder connective tissue that is torn, etc. Those injuries cause chronic and acute back and neck pain, injuries to other joints, head aches and postural issues that again cause debilitation in other areas of the body. The impact of body and physical challenges associated with pain and structural damage to one's skeletal/connective tissue, nervous systems on brain function, cognition and memory have yet to be addressed. We see such impairments in retired football players and immediately and exclusively associate it with brain trauma. Really? What happens when the brain is occupied 24/7 or nearly so with the pain and disfunction that these other injuries wrought. No one is looking so we do not know. But, how can those issues possibility not impact on an individual's ability to remember, compute, recognize, and react, not just to the challenges of movement, but to those associated with all cerebral function?

Life has its dangers and activities have their costs. Some are unnecessary, have become attractive nuisances and the entrance few for playing games that are to be played and enjoyed. It should not be that way, and the costs are in my experience and observation far more onerous than we as society assume. When looking at cause and effect we look for the obvious and find it. That does not mean there are not others. We need to at least appreciate the possibility.

cato
08-01-2013, 02:04 PM
In my view, such a lawsuit is well past time, as are similar class actions focusing on other life altering injuries such as torn ACLs and other significant knee injuries, and other similar injuries to major joints (they're all major) if the numbers warrant, which they do with regard to many, many types of joint injuries.

What is your theory on the ACL class action? Didn't the athletes knowingly assume the risk?

I haven't followed the concussion-related legal discussions, but I have always assumed that part of the theory was that the overlords of the game knew of significant health risks, the athletes didn't know of the risks, and the overlords failed to disclose the risks or adopt reasonable safety measures to protect against the risks.

Disclaimer: I'm a dirt lawyer, so I don't know what I'm talking about.

cato
08-01-2013, 02:08 PM
It is no fun going through life with torn ACLs, with ankles that don't function properly, with shoulder connective tissue that is torn, etc.

By the way, I agree with this and appreciate you bringing it up. I have a messed up foot/ankle/knee as a result of breaking my leg playing pick-up football when I was 17, and while it is nowhere near the issue that many former athletes deal with, it is a constant drag (can't run, once my favority activity, without tightness and pain the next day, etc.), and if I don't care for it properly, it leads to back pain.

TKG
08-01-2013, 02:17 PM
I wonder if football can survive as a sport. The money involved, on both the collegiate and professional level, makes my question seem silly. There is just too much money involved and it feeds too many people. But given what we know and continue to learn, about the impact on player health, perhaps a better question is what will the game look like in three, five, or ten years if it is to remain as a viable sport?

dukeofcalabash
08-01-2013, 07:17 PM
Take the helmets off, put a red bandana (flag football for those of you who don't get it) in everyone's back pocket, and let the girls play too. That should eliminate all head injuries AND improve the academics of the teams.

lotusland
08-01-2013, 09:15 PM
Take the helmets off, put a red bandana (flag football for those of you who don't get it) in everyone's back pocket, and let the girls play too. That should eliminate all head injuries AND improve the academics of the teams.

That would also eliminate the need for stadiums, concessions, merchandise, TV contracts and high paid coaches, road trips, etc.

Atlanta Duke
08-01-2013, 09:48 PM
I haven't followed the concussion-related legal discussions, but I have always assumed that part of the theory was that the overlords of the game knew of significant health risks, the athletes didn't know of the risks, and the overlords failed to disclose the risks or adopt reasonable safety measures to protect against the risks.


That pretty much sums it up - this from the Table Of Contents for the Amended Master Complaint filed in the multidistrict NFL concussion litigation

The NFL Was and Is in a Superior Position of Knowledge and Authority and Owed a Duty to Players

The NFL Knew the Dangers and Risks Associated With Repetitive Head Impacts and Concussions

The NFL Voluntarily Undertook the Responsibility of Studying Head Impacts in Football, Yet Fraudulently Concealed Their Long-Term Effects

http://nflconcussionlitigation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Master_Administrative_Long_Form_Complaint.pdf

ForkFondler
08-01-2013, 11:07 PM
It will be interesting to track how many talented athletes would move to other sports.

My guess is that basketball might gain some players and baseball, but the real winner would be lacrosse. There are so many high schools and colleges that do not have lacrosse that there could be a major explosion in this sport.

I'd go with soccer. Headers, sure, but lacrosse players wear helmets too.

allenmurray
08-03-2013, 07:13 AM
Sometimes even when we enjoy something we have to question its worth, and if we can let it continue without modification. I love watching football. I also know of the debilitation and potentially fatal effects the game can have. While many complain that changes to the game will make if different, it may also make it safe enough to continue.

On its present path it won't be long before we watch someone die in real time during a game. That may actually boost ratings, but it should also cause us to question if we can continue to support a sport where the stakes are so high. What will it take for the folks who respond on these threads with comments like, . . . put a red bandana (flag football for those of you who don't get it) in everyone's back pocket, and let the girls play too . . .to support changes that may save lives?. At some point the sport will change or people will die.

I love to watch football - but it bothers me that I do. I used to love to watch boxing, but I stopped watching when I just couldn't justify it anymore. Some things are more important than being entertained.

Here we are now, entertain us.

dukeofcalabash
08-04-2013, 03:09 AM
That would also eliminate the need for stadiums, concessions, merchandise, TV contracts and high paid coaches, road trips, etc.

Exactly, then and only then would those athletes be recognized as students first and athletes second. College kids could enjoy college football time again instead of old frat brothers sitting at home, watching on tv, and betting on the favorites.