A Comment about the Front Headline

[duke86]

I haven't commented too much, as many of you know, I live in Newport Beach, CA, and I just got married, so it has been quite hectic. I read the front page article with the analysis of the ACC schedules. First, let me say I agree with 99%, but I have one little comment on UMD. I do agree they have poor scheduling, but to knock the calibur of American and Delaware is a bit much. G. Williams schedules American every year because he once coached American, and has great respect for the program that (ACC-Freshman Standout) Jeff Jones has created. Last year they gave UMD a run for their money in the first half. They are always in the PL Semis-and should have beat Holy Cross this year to get to the Finals. My nephew goes to American, and we are both Duke Fans, but I just felt it was in poor taste to disregard American and other teams, even to insult the Terps. That's all I got to say, I"m sure many will disagree, but such is life.

Go Duke!

[chrishoke]

Good post. Duke had a player transfer to American years ago - Christian Ast - nice kid.

[cspan37421]

homerism, coupled with antipathy for Gary Williams. Kind of ironic that VCU and UNC-Charlotte were tarred as "pretty pathetic for a program of Maryland's caliber."

Really? Gee, how well did Duke do against VCU last year? Didn't they just compliment Ga Tech in the paragraph above for scheduling UNC-Charlotte? How strong was Florida's strength of schedule? Didn't they finish wtih 6 or more straight wins? Isn't that the main goal? There are 4 TBAs left, it says, for tournaments. Well, maybe it won't turn out ot be a D schedule.

Now, I'm in favor of a strong schedule. But I don't think it classy to rip some other school for how they schedule hoops. It isn't like NCAA football where you can accuse them of gaming the polls and so forth with patsies. You have to perform in the tournament, whatever you think will get you in and get you through. That's the bottom line.

[duke86]

i totally agree, and i just thought it was very wrong for the DBR to put down American and other schools. Seriously, Gary plays American because he gives the athletes at American to compete against his squad. This allows AU to play against better players, and MD to play against the mid-major team that is hungry and looking for that huge win.

[cspan37421]

Right, and haven't we played a fair number of games against teams with which there is some history with K, with a player's hometown area, or some other connection? Didn't we play a road game at Portland State a few years ago? When I was there (85-89) I am pretty sure we played Stetson, which gets a rip in one of the ACC team profiles. We have played all manner of small and mid-major school from time to time. William and Mary. Not a full season of them but you can bet early in the year and around finals they are well represented!

Like everything in life, it is a balancing act.

[mapei]

Duke has definitely played Army in recent years.

There are much better reasons to hate Gary than his scheduling. ;)

[vick]

homerism, coupled with antipathy for Gary Williams. Kind of ironic that VCU and UNC-Charlotte were tarred as "pretty pathetic for a program of Maryland's caliber."


Huh? The post didn't say VCU and UNC-C were "pretty pathetic," it said that having those as the best teams you schedule is pathetic.

[cspan37421]

mapei, I totally agree!

I cannot find anything appealing in his demeanor. If I were a HS recruit, I can see being impressed by being recruited by an ACC program, a coach who won a national championship (as he so often reminds us) but I can't imagine looking forward to playing for the guy. He looks like a solid lump of tension ready to explode at any moment, continually unhappy, grouchy, irritable, etc. Maybe that's just his TV persona.

[JasonEvans]

Huh? The post didn't say VCU and UNC-C were "pretty pathetic," it said that having those as the best teams you schedule is pathetic.

Exactly-- the earlier poster really took the DBR quote out of context.

I agree with DBR that Maryland's OOC schedule is quite weak for them this year. Gary usually takes on a few more challenges than this. VCU is not at all the same team that Duke lost ot last year. They got hammered by graduation. Duke-killer Eric Maynor is back, but they lost pretty much every other significant player from that team.

-Jason "Anthony Grant got !#^@!^ on Donovan's Florida coaching insanity-- I think he would have gone elsewhere but the thought he might be moving on to Florida next" Evans

[gw67]

My suspicion is that the Terps’ OOC schedule is relatively weak this year because they will be a very young team (2 seniors, 1 junior, 3 sophs and 6 freshmen, only 4 of the returnees have any playing time) and Williams wants the team to have a chance to grow before they begin ACC play. I also suspect that he also wants to win enough games to have an outside chance at the tourney. Previous posters were correct about scheduling American. Williams likes Jones and probably feels indebted to them for giving him his start in college coaching. He schedules them nearly every year.

By the way, schedule analysts consider the game against VCU (BB&T Classic at Verizon) to be a home game. You can’t prove it by me. The Terps have had their teeth handed to them in recent years by a host of major and mid-major teams at MCI (now Verizon). Some Maryland fans want them to drop this local tourney for charity but they have remained loyal. Feinstein has often said that Williams calls him each year after the tourney to sign up for the following year and that he is very appreciative because he knows that tourney would die without the Terps.

gw67

[JasonEvans]

By the way, schedule analysts consider the game against VCU (BB&T Classic at Verizon) to be a home game. You can’t prove it by me. The Terps have had their teeth handed to them in recent years by a host of major and mid-major teams at MCI (now Verizon). Some Maryland fans want them to drop this local tourney for charity but they have remained loyal. Feinstein has often said that Williams calls him each year after the tourney to sign up for the following year and that he is very appreciative because he knows that tourney would die without the Terps.


Why doesn't DC have a local tournament with Maryland, GW, Georgetown, and American? (Is there any other team within 30 minutes of DC?) OPr maybe they should try to do a "Big 5" thing like Philly does and add Navy to the mix. Actually, if you dropped American and had a Navy, Maryland, GTown, GW tourney it would be a really big deal, I'd think. You could get some real puiblicity for something like that.

-Jason "why don't Maryland and GTown ever play? Its been like 15 years, hasn't it?" Evans

[gw67]

Jason - I suspect that the Middle East conficts will be resolved before the Terps and the Hoyas get together for a game. The animosity and mistrust between these two universities doesn't make any sense IMO. Each side has drawn a line in the sand and won't budge and the local media appear to be too intimidated to put pressure on them for a game.

gw67

[just_wondering]

Jason - I suspect that the Middle East conficts will be resolved before the Terps and the Hoyas get together for a game. The animosity and mistrust between these two universities doesn't make any sense IMO. Each side has drawn a line in the sand and won't budge and the local media appear to be too intimidated to put pressure on them for a game.

gw67

Maryland has beaten Georgetown the last two times they have played -- at a neutral site and on Georgetown's homecourt. Maryland has also played other area teams -- GWU, George Mason, American University. I'm not aware that Georgetown has played any other area teams.
Over the years Maryland has also played in all different tournaments promoting local hoops -- the BB&T and its predecessor at the DC Armory. When an unbiased and credible observer like John Feinstein sides with the Terps you know that they couldn't possibly be in the wrong.

[Jarhead]

...When an unbiased and credible observer like John Feinstein sides with the Terps you know that they couldn't possibly be in the wrong.

Is that some kind of joke?

By the way, Jason, what about George Mason? They are closer to G'town and the Terps than you think. Just a few exits off the Beltway.

[cspan37421]

Out of curiosity, why is there such bad blood (and mistrust?) between MD and Georgetown? Is it really anything more than a nearby public/private rivalry like Duke/Carolina? Sounds like it.

[just_wondering]

Out of curiosity, why is there such bad blood (and mistrust?) between MD and Georgetown? Is it really anything more than a nearby public/private rivalry like Duke/Carolina? Sounds like it.

A long time ago there was a tournament featuring area schools held at the DC Armory. Maryland played Georgetown. At one point John Thompson got really pissed off and Ernie Graham went over to him and told him he was too big to get that mad. The rest is history.

They played again in Joe Smith's freshman year at the Capital Center. The Capital Center was Georgetown's home court. The underdog Terps led by Joe Smith and Dwayne Simpkins beat a Georgetown team featuring Othella Harrington. Since then they played once in the NCAA tournament.

Since that game Maryland has played all the other George's multiple times

[JBDuke]

Is that some kind of joke?

By the way, Jason, what about George Mason? They are closer to G'town and the Terps than you think. Just a few exits off the Beltway.

Um, the Beltway goes AROUND DC, so if you're leaving town, it won't help you. :) George Mason is better described as just a few exits along I-66 out of town. Georgetown, GW, and American are all downtown, essentially. Now, the Terps, being in College Park, are pretty close to the Beltway...

[gw67]

Dan Steinberg had a recent blog (see link) that sorta covered the conflict. The biggest hangup is that Maryland considers Verizon to be Georgetown's home court and wants the next game at Comcast. The Hoyas disagree and either want a game at a neutral site (Verizon) or home-home (Comcast and McDonough). The Hoyas won't play in the BB&T because mister "chip on the shoulder", big John Thompson, has problems with Feinstein. Several years ago, a local writer also wrote that big John had issues with some of the local schools (GWU for one) because of the way they treated him when he was a high school coach in the city. His son, the current Hoya coach, seems like a good guy but I can't imagine them taking part as long as dad is around.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2007/01/maryland_and_georgetown_play_b.html

gw67

[ACCBBallFan]

MD will also likely play 2 of Missouri, Michigan St, UCLA in the championship rounds of the CBE College Basketball Experience in Kansas City.

Their SOS is slightly but not radically below Duke's and UNCs, mainly because MD and GA Tech got the huge break in ACC unbalanced schedule this year that UVA exploited last year.

UNC
UCLA (two of three chance in CBE chanpionship rounds)
Michigan State (two of three chance in CBE chanpionship rounds)
Duke twice
No Carol St
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Virginia twice
Boston College twice
Illinois
VCU
Missouri (two of three chance in CBE chanpionship rounds)
Holy Cross
Florida State
Hampton
Miami
Wake Forest twice
Virginia Tech twice

[mapei]

Dan Steinberg had a recent blog (see link) that sorta covered the conflict. The biggest hangup is that Maryland considers Verizon to be Georgetown's home court and wants the next game at Comcast. The Hoyas disagree and either want a game at a neutral site (Verizon) or home-home (Comcast and McDonough). The Hoyas won't play in the BB&T because mister "chip on the shoulder", big John Thompson, has problems with Feinstein.


This is mostly fair, I think, but I've also heard that Gary woudn't play the BB&T at Verizon with Georgetown in it unless GU treated it as their half of a home-and-home and gave the Terps a return game at Comcast. I think a possible solution might be to play the BB&T at Mason or some other gym than Verizon. But, really, as long as Feinstein, Big John, and Gary, all of whom have master's degrees in grudge-holding, are around, I don't see it happening. After losing twice in the last BB&T, Gary has basically said he's done with that tourney anyway.

I do think GU will play Mason soon; they are playing American this year and played nearby James Madison last year; they played Navy recently.

Actually, this Hoya fan would LOVE to take on the Terps at this point.

[just_wondering]

This is mostly fair, I think, but I've also heard that Gary woudn't play the BB&T at Verizon with Georgetown in it unless GU treated it as their half of a home-and-home and gave the Terps a return game at Comcast. I think a possible solution might be to play the BB&T at Mason or some other gym than Verizon. But, really, as long as Feinstein, Big John, and Gary, all of whom have master's degrees in grudge-holding, are around, I don't see it happening. After losing twice in the last BB&T, Gary has basically said he's done with that tourney anyway.

I do think GU will play Mason soon; they are playing American this year and played nearby James Madison last year; they played Navy recently.

Actually, this Hoya fan would LOVE to take on the Terps at this point.

Of the local teams that played in the BB&T Maryland was the team that could draw fans. But over time as the quality of the field diminished it didn't seem worth the trouble to commit to the BB&T if the TV was as bad as it was and the quality of the opposition was not outstanding.

GWU beat Maryland more than a couple of times and I remember the year that Maryland lost to UMASS the GWU was even more intense because of the rivalry between Duane Simpkins and Vaughan Jones. But lately those kinds of games were lacking.

The BB&T was just a missed opportunity

[merry]

Actually, this Hoya fan would LOVE to take on the Terps at this point.

At tbis point? How about in, say, 2001?

[mapei]

Why wouild I want to take them on in 2001? MD was one of the best teams in the country and Georgetown was lousy then. I guess you were just making a rhetorical criticism of my post, but what I meant was that it would be fun now that the Hoyas are strong again. It was the statement of a fan. So shoot me.

[merry]

Why wouild I want to take them on in 2001? MD was one of the best teams in the country and Georgetown was lousy then. I guess you were just making a rhetorical criticism of my post, but what I meant was that it would be fun now that the Hoyas are strong again. It was the statement of a fan. So shoot me.

I didn't mean you to take it seriously...more like a joke not criticism. Jeez you're almost as touchy as a Maryland fan (just kidding! just kidding!)

If the two teams do play again in the regular season any time soon I think it would be fun. I'd sure pay to see it. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

[JBDuke]

This is mostly fair, I think, but I've also heard that Gary woudn't play the BB&T at Verizon with Georgetown in it unless GU treated it as their half of a home-and-home and gave the Terps a return game at Comcast. I think a possible solution might be to play the BB&T at Mason or some other gym than Verizon. But, really, as long as Feinstein, Big John, and Gary, all of whom have master's degrees in grudge-holding, are around, I don't see it happening...


Mapei, I had heard this from Gary about ANY game with Georgetown - that if they played in the Verizon Center, which Georgetown uses as a home court, Gary wanted a commitment for a follow-up at ComCast. I always thought this was kind of cheap. It's not much further from College Park to the Verizon Center than it is from Georgetown to the Phone Booth, and as long as they agreed to split the tickets, I suspect it would be a pretty even house.

[just_wondering]

Mapei, I had heard this from Gary about ANY game with Georgetown - that if they played in the Verizon Center, which Georgetown uses as a home court, Gary wanted a commitment for a follow-up at ComCast. I always thought this was kind of cheap. It's not much further from College Park to the Verizon Center than it is from Georgetown to the Phone Booth, and as long as they agreed to split the tickets, I suspect it would be a pretty even house.

Both teams recruit heavily in the Baltimore-Washington area. Each team believes that losing gives the other team a recruiting advantage. Playing on your home floor is a tremendous advantage. Gary played GU on their floor and beat them. He beat them on a neutral court. Maryland has played in all the local tournaments. For Maryland to eschew giving the Hoyas a huge advantage is not cheap

[JBDuke]

Both teams recruit heavily in the Baltimore-Washington area. Each team believes that losing gives the other team a recruiting advantage. Playing on your home floor is a tremendous advantage. Gary played GU on their floor and beat them. He beat them on a neutral court. Maryland has played in all the local tournaments. For Maryland to eschew giving the Hoyas a huge advantage is not cheap

Help me understand what you're saying, as I'm confused. How is playing Georgetown in the Verizon Center such a huge advantage for Georgetown, especially if arrangements are made to make the game more neutral (like an even distribution of tickets)?

[just_wondering]

Help me understand what you're saying, as I'm confused. How is playing Georgetown in the Verizon Center such a huge advantage for Georgetown, especially if arrangements are made to make the game more neutral (like an even distribution of tickets)?

1) GU has more experience shooting at each basket which is a huge advantage.

2) GU is comfortable playing on their home court.

3) It's a big pain in the butt getting a green line train from the Verizon Center after a game. It's a big enough hassle to discourage Maryland fans from going.

Play the game in Baltimore. That's a neutral site. It's as far for both squads

[merry]

1) GU has more experience shooting at each basket which is a huge advantage.

2) GU is comfortable playing on their home court.

3) It's a big pain in the butt getting a green line train from the Verizon Center after a game. It's a big enough hassle to discourage Maryland fans from going.

Play the game in Baltimore. That's a neutral site. It's as far for both squads

Numbers one and two I can buy. But #three, come on! You got three lines coming through Gallery Place and not everyone lives or parks on the Green. That's a kind of wimpy excuse, really.

[duke86]

Someone earlier said GU is playing American. I know Maryland is playing American--because that is why I started this thread--but I never heard about GU? Can someone shed some light?

[just_wondering]

Numbers one and two I can buy. But #three, come on! You got three lines coming through Gallery Place and not everyone lives or parks on the Green. That's a kind of wimpy excuse, really.

The number of season ticket holders at the ComCast Center > tickets available at the Verizon Center for a Maryland-GU game. Unless you're well connected it's likely that a Maryland season ticket will pay more for a seat that is not as good as their normal seats. There's no cachet to the Verizon center and anyway it's likely that you have been to the Verizon center before. A number of season ticket holders have had the experience of being abused by Metro after a B&BT Monday night game. Until you do it you don't how annoying it is to watch yellow line train after yellow line train pass a full platform of green line riders. The first time it happened to me I thought metro will learn from this but they didn't. I think it's a common sense move to pass on the Verizon center

[merry]

The number of season ticket holders at the ComCast Center > tickets available at the Verizon Center for a Maryland-GU game. Unless you're well connected it's likely that a Maryland season ticket will pay more for a seat that is not as good as their normal seats. There's no cachet to the Verizon center and anyway it's likely that you have been to the Verizon center before. A number of season ticket holders have had the experience of being abused by Metro after a B&BT Monday night game. Until you do it you don't how annoying it is to watch yellow line train after yellow line train pass a full platform of green line riders. The first time it happened to me I thought metro will learn from this but they didn't. I think it's a common sense move to pass on the Verizon center

In general maybe so. But it's the game that's supposed to be the draw, here. These sound like the kinds of reasons Duke fans give for not wanting to drive to Greensboro on a weeknight for those games they used to make us buy as part of a season ticket package - it's a big hassle, the seats aren't very good etc. The complaints crop up from everyone including me when said game is against UNC-G, but not quite as much if it's perceived as a fairly significant game.

[just_wondering]

In general maybe so. But it's the game that's supposed to be the draw, here. These sound like the kinds of reasons Duke fans give for not wanting to drive to Greensboro on a weeknight for those games they used to make us buy as part of a season ticket package - it's a big hassle, the seats aren't very good etc. The complaints crop up from everyone including me when said game is against UNC-G, but not quite as much if it's perceived as a fairly significant game.

Is completely in their comfort zone.

Their fans have their normal routines.
The team is used to the rims, the bounciness of the floor and the site lines.

Both teams are playing in front of their fans and potential recruits.

It's too much to ask to have one team surrender the advantage of their home court to another team that doesn't seem to make take much interest in the good of the community

[merry]

It's too much to ask to have one team surrender the advantage of their home court to another team that doesn't seem to make take much interest in the good of the community

Nope it's not at all too much to ask IMO. I just don't see "Metro sucks" as a valid part of the equation.

[mapei]

Someone earlier said GU is playing American. I know Maryland is playing American--because that is why I started this thread--but I never heard about GU? Can someone shed some light?

The game has been committed for the 2007-2008 season, at Verizon, but the date is TBA.