Them Jayhawks are at it again

[DukeWarhead]

Freshmen Greene, hit and run at 3:00 am in a car that belonged to "somebody" living in Lawrence.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/24/kansas-freshman-brannen-greene-cited-for-hit-and-run/

I understand that college kids will be college kids, but this is basically still a high schooler driving around in somebody else's rig at 3:00 am, banging in to cars and taking off. Didn't want to wait for the cops? I wonder why not.

Certainly, it's not earth-shattering, but it just reinforces the argument that while Bill Self can recruit and coach pretty darn well, he doesn't expect much of his guys off the court. I know it's easy to throw darts at other teams, but some teams bring it on themselves by repeated stories of stupidity and tomfoolery.

[Des Esseintes]

Freshmen Greene, hit and run at 3:00 am in a car that belonged to "somebody" living in Lawrence.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/24/kansas-freshman-brannen-greene-cited-for-hit-and-run/

I understand that college kids will be college kids, but this is basically still a high schooler driving around in somebody else's rig at 3:00 am, banging in to cars and taking off. Didn't want to wait for the cops? I wonder why not.

Certainly, it's not earth-shattering, but it just reinforces the argument that while Bill Self can recruit and coach pretty darn well, he doesn't expect much of his guys off the court. I know it's easy to throw darts at other teams, but some teams bring it on themselves by repeated stories of stupidity and tomfoolery.

Can we at least spell "Jayhawk" correctly before launching into a speech about standards?

[crimsonandblue]

Freshmen Greene, hit and run at 3:00 am in a car that belonged to "somebody" living in Lawrence.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/24/kansas-freshman-brannen-greene-cited-for-hit-and-run/

I understand that college kids will be college kids, but this is basically still a high schooler driving around in somebody else's rig at 3:00 am, banging in to cars and taking off. Didn't want to wait for the cops? I wonder why not.

Certainly, it's not earth-shattering, but it just reinforces the argument that while Bill Self can recruit and coach pretty darn well, he doesn't expect much of his guys off the court. I know it's easy to throw darts at other teams, but some teams bring it on themselves by repeated stories of stupidity and tomfoolery.

The KU men’s basketball program and women’s cross country team were recognized by the NCAA for achieving multi-year Academic Progress Rates among the nation’s top 10 percent in their respective sports.

The men’s basketball program led the Big 12 with a perfect multi-year score of 1,000, achieved for the seventh straight year. The women’s cross country team also led the Big 12 with a score of 1,000. (http://www.kansascity.com/2013/06/11/4287344/ku-mens-basketball-and-womens.html)

[Steven43]

The KU men’s basketball program and women’s cross country team were recognized by the NCAA for achieving multi-year Academic Progress Rates among the nation’s top 10 percent in their respective sports.

The men’s basketball program led the Big 12 with a perfect multi-year score of 1,000, achieved for the seventh straight year. The women’s cross country team also led the Big 12 with a score of 1,000. (http://www.kansascity.com/2013/06/11/4287344/ku-mens-basketball-and-womens.html)

The fact that the men's basketball program at Kansas is in the top 10 percent in regard to multi-year APR is a joke. Just look at the high school academic record of their average men's basketball player and it is fairly easy to conclude that something doesn't add up. Their basketball program has many recruits that have mediocre academic records in high school. How would they suddenly become strong students after entering college?

[TKG]

The fact that the men's basketball program at Kansas is in the top 10 percent in regard to multi-year APR is a joke. Just look at the high school academic record of their average men's basketball player and it is fairly easy to conclude that something doesn't add up. Their basketball program has many recruits that have mediocre academic records in high school. How would they suddenly become strong students after entering college?

Coach 'em up!

[G man]

The fact that the men's basketball program at Kansas is in the top 10 percent in regard to multi-year APR is a joke. Just look at the high school academic record of their average men's basketball player and it is fairly easy to conclude that something doesn't add up. Their basketball program has many recruits that have mediocre academic records in high school. How would they suddenly become strong students after entering college?

Don't get me wrong I hate KU, but I think you need to slow down a bit. How many of us in high school just did enough to stay eligible for ball? I know I did! Just because someone does not apply themselves in high school does not make them an idiot or incapable of getting through college. I maybe averaged a 2.8 through high school and I am finishing up my masters degree this semester so be easy to paint with such broad strokes. That being said KU sucks!!!!

[matt1]

The fact that the men's basketball program at Kansas is in the top 10 percent in regard to multi-year APR is a joke. Just look at the high school academic record of their average men's basketball player and it is fairly easy to conclude that something doesn't add up. Their basketball program has many recruits that have mediocre academic records in high school. How would they suddenly become strong students after entering college?

APR does not look at the actual grades, but rather eligibility. So, there is no difference between a 2.3 and a 4.0 GPA, as far as APR is concerned.

[DukeWarhead]

The KU men’s basketball program and women’s cross country team were recognized by the NCAA for achieving multi-year Academic Progress Rates among the nation’s top 10 percent in their respective sports.

The men’s basketball program led the Big 12 with a perfect multi-year score of 1,000, achieved for the seventh straight year. The women’s cross country team also led the Big 12 with a score of 1,000. (http://www.kansascity.com/2013/06/11/4287344/ku-mens-basketball-and-womens.html)

...and this has exactly what do to with the fact that KU basketball seems to be going after UConn's coveted title for most off-court issues?? Okay, maybe that's too much, but put it all together - the Morris twins, Point-Planking Taylor, Sherron the flasher, Brady DUIstar and you start to see a pattern that isn't the norm

[devildeac]

The fact that the men's basketball program at Kansas is in the top 10 percent in regard to multi-year APR is a joke. Just look at the high school academic record of their average men's basketball player and it is fairly easy to conclude that something doesn't add up. Their basketball program has many recruits that have mediocre academic records in high school. How would they suddenly become strong students after entering college?

AFAM studies at unc :rolleyes:;)?

[OldPhiKap]

I am glad that Duke has not had an incident like this in recent memory, and hope we do not. But I'm not gonna take a dumb/panic action which some kid took, and stain a whole university with it.

Unless there is some overall pattern or practice which emerges (see, e.g. UNC AFAM scandal), this seems like an accusation of an unfortunate incident that the kid will have to deal with.

Even as much as I like to rib the folks down 15-501 for individual player's isolated transgressions (see, e.g. allegation against PJ) it really does not show any broader shenanigans or lack of recruiting "the right guys" or somesuch in isolation.

Kids screw up. Even ones in your program once in awhile. Assuming it does not have broader NCAA implications, the coach will punish the kid if appropriate and everyone else moves along.

[DukeWarhead]

Unless there is some overall pattern or practice which emerges (see, e.g. UNC AFAM scandal), this seems like an accusation of an unfortunate incident that the kid will have to deal with..

My original point is that there is a pattern or practice. Look back over the past ten years or so and you'll see an inordinate amount of disciplinary issues with KU basketball, more that any other DIV-I school I can think of. True, I have no idea what has been happening at USC, or say, Oklahoma, but the fact it has become noticable enough at KU to sound familiar suggests that they might want to seriously look at how they can prevent more reports of stupidity....


I forgot about Mario Little, too...that another one...

[DukeWarhead]

Just saw that there was a full thread about this two years ago when Tyshon Taylor got nabbed with weed or something....

If I knew how to link threads, i would.

[TexHawk]

...and this has exactly what do to with the fact that KU basketball seems to be going after UConn's coveted title for most off-court issues?? Okay, maybe that's too much, but put it all together - the Morris twins, Point-Planking Taylor, Sherron the flasher, Brady DUIstar and you start to see a pattern that isn't the norm

Should I...? I can't.... I won't.... I'm turning around and leaving the thread... Stop pulling me back! Er, ugh.... Stop me!

Sorry....

Brady Morningstar got a DUI, which is horrific and not defensible, and Bill Self suspended him for half of a basketball season (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4545184). A couple days later, Tom Izzo, who everyone idolizes as a paragon of virtue, suspended Korie Lucious two whole games for his (one was an exhibition game) (http://www.ballinisahabit.net/2010/10/korie-lucious-gets-his-punishment-from.html).

Sherron Collins counter sued (http://cjonline.com/stories/081408/haw_318456151.shtml) for the "flashing" issue, and the accuser quickly dropped the case (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2008-11-13/lawsuit-against-sherron-collins-dismissed). But of course, you (and a bunch of Missouri fans) are sure you know the truth.

And Taylor was suspended, for, um, something that probably deserves a high-five (http://www.yardbarker.com/college_basketball/articles/kansas_suspended_tyshawn_taylor_marisha_brown_for_ sex_under_the_bleachers/4231274).

UCONN here we come!

[OldPhiKap]

Should I...? I can't.... I won't.... I'm turning around and leaving the thread... Stop pulling me back! Er, ugh.... Stop me!

Sorry....

Brady Morningstar got a DUI, which is horrific and not defensible, and Bill Self suspended him for half of a basketball season (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4545184). A couple days later, Tom Izzo, who everyone idolizes as a paragon of virtue, suspended Korie Lucious two whole games for his (one was an exhibition game) (http://www.ballinisahabit.net/2010/10/korie-lucious-gets-his-punishment-from.html).

Sherron Collins counter sued (http://cjonline.com/stories/081408/haw_318456151.shtml) for the "flashing" issue, and the accuser quickly dropped the case (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2008-11-13/lawsuit-against-sherron-collins-dismissed). But of course, you (and a bunch of Missouri fans) are sure you know the truth.

And Taylor was suspended, for, um, something that probably deserves a high-five (http://www.yardbarker.com/college_basketball/articles/kansas_suspended_tyshawn_taylor_marisha_brown_for_ sex_under_the_bleachers/4231274).

UCONN here we come!

"Don't bring facts to a mud fight."

-- OPK

[DukieInKansas]

Should I...? I can't.... I won't.... I'm turning around and leaving the thread... Stop pulling me back! Er, ugh.... Stop me!

Sorry....

Brady Morningstar got a DUI, which is horrific and not defensible, and Bill Self suspended him for half of a basketball season (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4545184). A couple days later, Tom Izzo, who everyone idolizes as a paragon of virtue, suspended Korie Lucious two whole games for his (one was an exhibition game) (http://www.ballinisahabit.net/2010/10/korie-lucious-gets-his-punishment-from.html).

Sherron Collins counter sued (http://cjonline.com/stories/081408/haw_318456151.shtml) for the "flashing" issue, and the accuser quickly dropped the case (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2008-11-13/lawsuit-against-sherron-collins-dismissed). But of course, you (and a bunch of Missouri fans) are sure you know the truth.

And Taylor was suspended, for, um, something that probably deserves a high-five (http://www.yardbarker.com/college_basketball/articles/kansas_suspended_tyshawn_taylor_marisha_brown_for_ sex_under_the_bleachers/4231274).

UCONN here we come!

Thank you, TexHawk. I think Bill Self runs a pretty tight ship. Players are going to get caught doing things from time to time. How the coach handles those is what counts. I still have the picture of Bill Self and the team at the funeral of Robinson's mother. That is the picture I have of KU. I don't think Self puts up with shenanigans - he wants his players accountable.

[DukeWarhead]

There's a difference between running a tight ship and reacting to stuff once it has already happened. Tight ships don't have a whole lot to react to.

That being said, I don't expect any die hard KU fans to argue that Bill Self should do more than he's already doing. If they keep winning the BIG12, who cares about the off court stupid stuff?

[TexHawk]

There's a difference between running a tight ship and reacting to stuff once it has already happened. Tight ships don't have a whole lot to react to.

That being said, I don't expect any die hard KU fans to argue that Bill Self should do more than he's already doing. If they keep winning the BIG12, who cares about the off court stupid stuff?

As a sign that some of us aren't over-the-top with our praise, I agree that the Mario Little situation was disgusting, and not Bill Self's finest hour. We actually had a nice conversation on here about that, because it's not an easy thing to deal with as a fan. What should I do? Drop my allegiance to the school and team I have known since being born in Lawrence in the early 70s? Does my family give back our (usually) ridiculously awesome seats? MOST of the players are good guys from good families, same as most schools in the country. Do I let one bad apple spoil everything?

Yes, the Morris bros were a******s on the court, no argument, but that's rarely a good judge of character (http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/aug/18/ku-mens-basketball-players-visit-hospital-patients/).


“We sat down with them. We cuddled with them. We watched TV with them. We just had some laughs to try to brighten up their day,” said 6-foot-9 KU junior power forward Markieff Morris, who served as a human teddy bear for the youths."

[DukeWarhead]

What should I do? Drop my allegiance to the school and team I have known since being born in Lawrence in the early 70s? Does my family give back our (usually) ridiculously awesome seats? MOST of the players are good guys from good families, same as most schools in the country. Do I let one bad apple spoil everything?

Yes, the Morris bros were a******s on the court, no argument, but that's rarely a good judge of character (http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/aug/18/ku-mens-basketball-players-visit-hospital-patients/).

Oh, I dunno. Maybe a lifelong fan would expect thier players to represent the school well and get annoyed when they don't. Annoyed enough to admit that the last few seasons haven't looked great discipline wise and suggest, that maybe....just maybe....Bill Self might want to clamp down a bit.

But hey, as long as you have 'ridiculously awesome seats' in the second-best venue in college basketball, it's all good, right?

Okay, now I'm just busting chops.

Bill Self is a great coach. The KU record over the last few seasons shows that. It'd be nice if that record didn't have to contend with frequent reports of player stupidity. I'm sure Bill would love it if it were only 'one bad apple.'

[crimsonandblue]

Oh, I dunno. Maybe a lifelong fan would expect thier players to represent the school well and get annoyed when they don't. Annoyed enough to admit that the last few seasons haven't looked great discipline wise and suggest, that maybe....just maybe....Bill Self might want to clamp down a bit.

But hey, as long as you have 'ridiculously awesome seats' in the second-best venue in college basketball, it's all good, right?

Okay, now I'm just busting chops.

Bill Self is a great coach. The KU record over the last few seasons shows that. It'd be nice if that record didn't have to contend with frequent reports of player stupidity. I'm sure Bill would love it if it were only 'one bad apple.'

Of the issues you've cited in this lovely Devil's Den reject thread, all but Mario Little's (December 2011) and this new Brannan Greene thing occurred around four years or more ago. Maybe you could provide the definition of "few" you're working from.

[DukeWarhead]

Of the issues you've cited in this lovely Devil's Den reject thread, all but Mario Little's (December 2011) and this new Brannan Greene thing occurred around four years or more ago. Maybe you could provide the definition of "few" you're working from.

Well, a 30 second web search produced this gem, from one reject thread to another,
http://www.wavingthewheat.com/showthread.php?7708-Tyshawn-Taylor-and-Elijah-Johnson-SUSPENDED-for-exhibition-games

BUT...I have been warned and I will quit poking at KU. If you're cool with the way things are going at KU then good on you.

[TexHawk]

Oh, I dunno. Maybe a lifelong fan would expect thier players to represent the school well and get annoyed when they don't. Annoyed enough to admit that the last few seasons haven't looked great discipline wise and suggest, that maybe....just maybe....Bill Self might want to clamp down a bit.[/B]

I think I already admitted that, and it was more than mere "annoyance". It disgusted me to see Mario Little on the court. And you also previously admitted that Bill Self does a decent job of discipline after these issues happen, so I'm not exactly sure what needs to be clamped.

Bill Self recruited the player that started this thread (Brannen Greene), but that's about it. He has yet to put him through conditioning and a real practice. Oh, of course you would say he should have seen this coming, as Self only pulls in bad apples. He must have not noticed the straight A's in high school while volunteering for charity organizations (http://www.usatodayhss.com/article/georgia-boys-basketball-poy-brannen-greene). I am eagerly awaiting the takedowns of Rick Pitino, Josh Pastner, Thad Matta, and (gulp) Tommy Amaker who also offered Greene a scholarship.

[crimsonandblue]

Well, a 30 second web search produced this gem, from one reject thread to another,
http://www.wavingthewheat.com/showthread.php?7708-Tyshawn-Taylor-and-Elijah-Johnson-SUSPENDED-for-exhibition-games

BUT...I have been warned and I will quit poking at KU. If you're cool with the way things are going at KU then good on you.

I'm cool with the way things are going at KU. But your concern for our community safety and psyche is noted and truly appreciated.

[alteran]

The fact that the men's basketball program at Kansas is in the top 10 percent in regard to multi-year APR is a joke. Just look at the high school academic record of their average men's basketball player and it is fairly easy to conclude that something doesn't add up. Their basketball program has many recruits that have mediocre academic records in high school. How would they suddenly become strong students after entering college?

The Carolina Way!

[DukeWarhead]

. I am eagerly awaiting the takedowns of Rick Pitino, Josh Pastner, Thad Matta, and (gulp) Tommy Amaker who also offered Greene a scholarship.

When Tommy Amaker's players start playing bumper cars at 3:00 a.m. with somebody else's car and driving across people's lawns, then the takedown will come. Don't hold your breath.
Recruiting isn't the issue, what players do once they arrive on campus is. I tend to believe that a coaching staff should keep a close eye on freshmen when they get on campus and discover the "wonders" of college life, and not wait until practice starts. I know some people don't feel that way. If one of Duke's players does something stupid while attending school this summer (knock on wood) you won't see me giving the coaching staff, or the other team members, a pass. I think good programs police themselves.

[Henderson]

Uh, let's not forget that Duke offered PJ Hairston. But they were just joking with him, sending him recruiting letters that intentionally misspelled his name. Sorry for the little funny, PJ. When you mentioned guns and weed during the phone call with Coach, the recruiting atmosphere lightened up. Not "lighted up" just lightened up. We all now agree that Carolina was your best option if you couldn't make the academics at Kentucky.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/17/pj-hairston-duke-spelling-error_n_863097.html

[OldPhiKap]

We get it, you hate Kansas. I am personally ambivalent. They have had some problems, some schools have had more and some have had less.

Is there really anything else we are discussing?

There is an allegation of wrongdoing here. If true, punishment will follow. If not, not.

I do not condone hit and run, I just fail to see how Bill Self has anything to do with it. Nor Roy with what is alleged against PJ.

I always get dinged when I bring up glass house arguments, but anyone who has followed our program for any length of time knows that there have been allegations against players and recruits who ultimately played for us. It happens. And it is not always what is reported in the press.

Anyway, I am done with the topic. As far as I am concerned, as long as Kansas keeps going further than UNC they are ok by me.