A Big Bang! Shelden's a Genius, Howard's a Rocket

[BD80]

Jim Parsons convinces Dwight Howard to sign with Rockets:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/22648975/video-big-bang-theorys-jim-parsons-pitches-dwight-howard

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/22650744/report-dwight-howard-will-sign-with-the-houston-rockets

Couldn't have anything to do with the state income tax

[SupaDave]

Not confirmed just yet...

[Henderson]

State income tax. I'm sure their financial advisors care, and I'm sure the financially astute players care. But in the salary hierarchy among players, where respect is sometimes measured in dollars, does it resonate? For example, do players think to themselves or say to others this? "Sure he got 5 million a year, and I only got 4.5, but my take home pay is greater, so I'm the more highly paid player." Does that line work with girls in clubs?

Or do they count coup by how much the team dishes out, rather than what they pocket?

Any movement of Dwight Howard away from the Lakers benefits Ryan Kelly, even though they wouldn't play the same roles. So adios Senor Howard.

[FerryFor50]

State income tax. I'm sure their financial advisors care, and I'm sure the financially astute players care. But in the salary hierarchy among players, where respect is sometimes measured in dollars, does it resonate? For example, do players think to themselves or say to others this? "Sure he got 5 million a year, and I only got 4.5, but my take home pay is greater, so I'm the more highly paid player." Does that line work with girls in clubs?

Or do they count coup by how much the team dishes out, rather than what they pocket?

Any movement of Dwight Howard away from the Lakers benefits Ryan Kelly, even though they wouldn't play the same roles. So adios Senor Howard.

Are you suggesting that *every* athlete is financially inept? I think that's presumptuous at best.

I find Dwight to be pretty intelligent. And I'm sure his financial advisors point out that a smaller overall contract = less money for the agents, since I'm sure they get a cut of the overall haul and not the take home pay.

And that's not to mention that Houston made the most sense from a basketball perspective.

[Turtleboy]

ESPN's Chris Broussard reports that Howard is 50/50 on signing with LA or Houston.

[mph]

I'll assign credibility to predictions about where Dwight Howard will play basketball when he puts pen to paper and not a moment sooner. A verbal commitment from an 8th grade basketball recruit is more reliable than a Dwight Howard free agency "decision."

[brevity]

Non-basketball notes:

1. This is the only time on DBR that I get to say this: it's S-H-E-L-D-O-N, as in Cooper.
2. If this works, do the Laker mafia make Jim Parsons less popular in Hollywood?
3. Weird that he makes an appeal to this Superman while Kaley Cuoco is dating her own.

[subzero02]

I'll assign credibility to predictions about where Dwight Howard will play basketball when he puts pen to paper and not a moment sooner. A verbal commitment from an 8th grade basketball recruit is more reliable than a Dwight Howard free agency "decision."

Truer words were never spoken...or typed

[BD80]

Non-basketball notes:

1. This is the only time on DBR that I get to say this: it's S-H-E-L-D-O-N, as in Cooper. ...

Shelden is the default spelling on this board. It is never incorrect.

[DukieInKansas]

State income tax. I'm sure their financial advisors care, and I'm sure the financially astute players care. But in the salary hierarchy among players, where respect is sometimes measured in dollars, does it resonate? For example, do players think to themselves or say to others this? "Sure he got 5 million a year, and I only got 4.5, but my take home pay is greater, so I'm the more highly paid player." Does that line work with girls in clubs?

Or do they count coup by how much the team dishes out, rather than what they pocket?

Any movement of Dwight Howard away from the Lakers benefits Ryan Kelly, even though they wouldn't play the same roles. So adios Senor Howard.

I would assume NBA players are paid in the same manner as NFL players - their pay is considered on a per game basis and they pay taxes to the state where games are played. Therefore, no state income tax in TX is not as much of a benefit.

[Newton_14]

I would assume NBA players are paid in the same manner as NFL players - their pay is considered on a per game basis and they pay taxes to the state where games are played. Therefore, no state income tax in TX is not as much of a benefit.

They explained it differently on ESPN Radio this afternoon, making it sound as though the taxes are based on the city of employer and player. They stated Dwight would make an extra $9mil over the course of the contract by playing for the Rockets in Texas.

Still not sure that you are wrong and they are right though.. I thought it was based on where the game was played as well...

[sagegrouse]

I would assume NBA players are paid in the same manner as NFL players - their pay is considered on a per game basis and they pay taxes to the state where games are played. Therefore, no state income tax in TX is not as much of a benefit.


They explained it differently on ESPN Radio this afternoon, making it sound as though the taxes are based on the city of employer and player. They stated Dwight would make an extra $9mil over the course of the contract by playing for the Rockets in Texas.

Still not sure that you are wrong and they are right though.. I thought it was based on where the game was played as well...

Many states and cities go after pro ballplayers. New York and Pennsylvania, for sure. But I am not sure other states do so -- I'll check. If it is 100 percent, then we are arguing taxes on the 50 percent of pay that represents home games.

sagegrouse

[JasonEvans]

Dwight's deal is $88 mil over 4 years. I guess I am a bit surprised he did not go for a longer-term deal, like 6 years. He does have an opt-out clause after 2 years though, which is good because Dwight is never happy where he is.

--Jason "between Lebron's 'Decision' and Dwight this summer, I have concluded that changing teams is a really bad short-term PR move" Evans

[Duvall]

Dwight's deal is $88 mil over 4 years. I guess I am a bit surprised he did not go for a longer-term deal, like 6 years. He does have an opt-out clause after 2 years though, which is good because Dwight is never happy where he is.

--Jason "between Lebron's 'Decision' and Dwight this summer, I have concluded that changing teams is a really bad short-term PR move" Evans

Sports fans would bring back the reserve clause if they could, because they are mostly terrible people.

[blazindw]

They explained it differently on ESPN Radio this afternoon, making it sound as though the taxes are based on the city of employer and player. They stated Dwight would make an extra $9mil over the course of the contract by playing for the Rockets in Texas.

Still not sure that you are wrong and they are right though.. I thought it was based on where the game was played as well...


I would assume NBA players are paid in the same manner as NFL players - their pay is considered on a per game basis and they pay taxes to the state where games are played. Therefore, no state income tax in TX is not as much of a benefit.


Many states and cities go after pro ballplayers. New York and Pennsylvania, for sure. But I am not sure other states do so -- I'll check. If it is 100 percent, then we are arguing taxes on the 50 percent of pay that represents home games.

sagegrouse


They are paid on a per game basis and taxed based on where the game is played. So, Dwight makes more by playing at least 49 games in states that have no state income tax (41 for the Rockets at home, 2 at San Antonio, 2 at Dallas, 2 at Memphis, 1 at Orlando, 1 at Miami). That's where the savings comes in. Staying with LA, that number would drop to 10.

[Dev11]

I guess I am a bit surprised he did not go for a longer-term deal, like 6 years.

I was under the impression that a player can only sign for a max of 4 years with a new team, 5 with his old team.

[CDu]

I was under the impression that a player can only sign for a max of 4 years with a new team, 5 with his old team.

You are correct. The new collective bargaining agreement reduced the length of contracts and also reduced the number of years a player could get to sign with a new team.

[BD80]

You are correct. The new collective bargaining agreement reduced the length of contracts and also reduced the number of years a player could get to sign with a new team.

Whew!

I don't think I could last six years without another "Where will Dwight Howard play" drama.

[Dev11]

Whew!

I don't think I could last six years without another "Where will Dwight Howard play" drama.

Don't worry, next summer we get a new round of "Where will Lebron play?" drama.

[Indoor66]

Don't worry, next summer we get a new round of "Where will Lebron play?" drama.

That one is easy: Miami. He ain't leaving.

[Indoor66]

Whew!

I don't think I could last six years without another "Where will Dwight Howard play" drama.

In four years Howard will be shown to be highly overpriced.

[TexHawk]

That one is easy: Miami. He ain't leaving.

While I agree that he eventually stays (after an ESPN blowout tour of 8-10 teams before The Decision, part deux), it is far from a done deal. There is a team on the left coast that historically always gets the biggest star when it wants him (except for this week, of course).

[Acymetric]

While I agree that he eventually stays (after an ESPN blowout tour of 8-10 teams before The Decision, part deux), it is far from a done deal. There is a team on the left coast that historically always gets the biggest star when it wants him (except for this week, of course).

Does L.A. really want Howard or do they just feel like they need to have him?

[elvis14]

Does L.A. really want Howard or do they just feel like they need to have him?

Why would they not want Howard? I'd want the best center in the league. They guy came off back surgery, played in a system that doesn't feed the middle and he still went for 17 and 12. Let's not lose perspective just because the media likes to play up Dwight Howard's dramas.

I really would have liked to see what LA could have done last year if everyone would have been healthy. I'm not saying they would have made a real run at the Spurs or the Heat but I'm bummed that we didn't get to see it come together at all.

[Acymetric]

Why would they not want Howard? I'd want the best center in the league. They guy came off back surgery, played in a system that doesn't feed the middle and he still went for 17 and 12. Let's not lose perspective just because the media likes to play up Dwight Howard's dramas.

I really would have liked to see what LA could have done last year if everyone would have been healthy. I'm not saying they would have made a real run at the Spurs or the Heat but I'm bummed that we didn't get to see it come together at all.

That doesn't refute my point, does it? He is extremely good (great, the best, etc.). But do teams want Dwight Howard the player and person or do they feel that they need to pursue a player of his talent? Maybe that distinction only makes sense to me but I think its a meaningful one.

[elvis14]

That doesn't refute my point, does it? He is extremely good (great, the best, etc.). But do teams want Dwight Howard the player and person or do they feel that they need to pursue a player of his talent? Maybe that distinction only makes sense to me but I think its a meaningful one.

It makes sense but I suspect there's a difference between the real person that his teammates see and the person that ESPN depicts.

We agree that he's really good but I don't know if he's a good person or whether any perceived or real circus caused by him being around is worth it. In today's NBA, I suspect that a little drama around DH is not enough to offset his talent. It's not like we are talking about Ron Artest here.

[brevity]

Does L.A. really want Howard or do they just feel like they need to have him?


Why would they not want Howard? I'd want the best center in the league. They guy came off back surgery, played in a system that doesn't feed the middle and he still went for 17 and 12. Let's not lose perspective just because the media likes to play up Dwight Howard's dramas.

I really would have liked to see what LA could have done last year if everyone would have been healthy. I'm not saying they would have made a real run at the Spurs or the Heat but I'm bummed that we didn't get to see it come together at all.


That doesn't refute my point, does it? He is extremely good (great, the best, etc.). But do teams want Dwight Howard the player and person or do they feel that they need to pursue a player of his talent? Maybe that distinction only makes sense to me but I think its a meaningful one.

Generally, that level of talent attracts attention, but his star power and marketability make him particularly covetable. That said, I think the Rockets and Lakers saw him differently. For the Rockets, he is a valuable piece that fits their plan toward winning a championship. For the Lakers, it was a shiny expensive toy to be collected, so that they could continue to call themselves a glamour franchise where everyone wants to play. Team fit was not part of the plan.

It's an interesting case. The cult of Dwight Howard -- the smile, the Stan Van Gundy impersonation, the Superman persona -- got ripped to shreds when he did such a poor job of (not) deciding his fate in Orlando. That's his fault. But recent events have shown that he's willing to move on from that, but the media aren't. What we've witnessed is nothing short of complete character assassination by reporters who are acting out viciously, either to relish vilifying an easy target or from being tired of a hyped event they created. The Lakers mafia think they're tasting blood, but it's just the Kool-Aid they've been drinking. They are dazzled by the Lakers history, completely ignorant of the team's present state, and wonder why Howard isn't similarly dazzled. (Hint: it's because Dwight knows the obvious. Phil Jackson is probably not walking through that door. And Dr. Jerry Buss is definitely not walking through the door.)

If you hate the Lakers, then you can be forgiven for some wishful thinking over the next 12 months. Too good to tank, not good enough for the playoffs. Nothing special in the 2014 draft. No high-profile 2014 free agents. The reality is not as spiteful, but still sort of fun. They'll be relevant but incapable of making a dent in the Western Conference, well behind the clear top 6: the Spurs, Thunder, Clippers, Rockets, Warriors, and Grizzlies. And then they'll find a way to score a big free agent or two, even if it means loading up a money truck and financing a new VH1 reality show called La La Land (http://blog.vh1.com/utag/series/la-las-full-court-life-3/40739/).

[JasonEvans]

It is off topic from the main current conversation but I think there is a very good chance Lebron goes elsewhere next summer.

Lebron's main focus is winning titles. He wants to have the pieces around him to ensure he gets titles. I am sure he wants to get 5 or 6, to get to the numbers that MJ and Kobe are at (see this list of the most titles by player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_players_with_most_championships) -- lots of Celtics at the top).

So, the question is -- where can he surround himself with players who will help him win more titles?

Miami - well, their current roster is really, really aging. Support players like Allen, Battier, Haslem, Anderson, and Mike Miller are most certainly on the downside of their careers. Wade is fading and will just be a shadow of what he has been in a year or two. Bosh has never shown himself to be the great player many thought. If Lebron truly wants to be around the best teammates, it is hard to see how Miami is the logical choice. Miami's cap space in 2014-15 is a nightmare. Wade and Bosh have players options for $20-22 million for the 2014-15 and 2015-16 seasons. What are the odds they opt out and take giant pay cuts? Pretty small, I think. Lebron will opt out though and I suspect he will go elsewhere leaving Miami with 2 or 3 titles (not a bad deal).

Cleveland - They are clearing cap space for Lebron and would immediately be able to pair him with one of the league's best PGs in Kyrie and several other very solid young players who are on cheap rookie contracts. They should have the cap space to get another solid player too as the only guys they have under contract beyond 2015 are guys on rookie contracts plus Verejao (with a $9.8 mil team option in 2014-15, so they could waive him if they needed more cap space). It is not at all hard to see Cleveland getting Lebron plus one more top-tier free agent. Combine that with Kyrie and the other solid rookies and it is a team that should be a top title contender.

Dallas - Get this, as of this moment the Mavs don't have ANYONE under contract for 2015. This is sorta like the situation Miami was in a couple years ago when they cleared their entire cap so they could get Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. They could bring in Lebron and another good FA and pair them with Dirk, especially if Dirk took a pay cut (dude has made $181 mil in his career and is due another $22 mil this coming year... he can afford to take a pay cut).

Lakers - The only guy signed for 2015 is Steve Nash. Kobe and Pau both come off the books next summer. Might Lebron go to Tinseltown? Could he and Kobe share the ball enough to win a title? With only $9.7 mill in committed salaries for 2014-15, the Lakers could make a play at 2 or 3 big-time players.

-Jason "There will be other players, teams with lots of cap room in 2014, in this equation. I think it is going to be very tough for Miami to keep him though" Evans

[TexHawk]

Lebron's main focus is winning titles.

Is it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he loves winning, but he doesn't scream "insane about winning" like Kobe, Jordan, Bird, Magic, and others did. Just my opinion, of course. I'm sure it's up there in terms of his focus, but I just don't see him hobbling along in his late 30s like Kobe/MJ to win one more ring.



Bosh has never shown himself to be the great player many thought.

Really? There are some in the basketball industry (players, coaches, media) who think Bosh would be a unanimous HOFer if he retired today. I am not sure I agree, but he IS just 3 years removed from a 24-11-3 season. He put up at least 22-10-3 for 5 straight before joining ball hog central in South Beach, but he's still been about 18-8-2 there. His bball reference comps are guys like James Worthy, Jerry Lucas, Bobby Jones, and Larry Nance (the latter two are not in the HOF, but perhaps should be). Plus he's only 29.

I agree he is likely to regress, but he's been put in a weird spot on those Miami teams. He's not a center. If he were to get out of there and play PF every night and stay away from guys like Roy Hibbert, he would still be very valuable.

[JasonEvans]

Really? There are some in the basketball industry (players, coaches, media) who think Bosh would be a unanimous HOFer if he retired today. I am not sure I agree, but he IS just 3 years removed from a 24-11-3 season. He put up at least 22-10-3 for 5 straight before joining ball hog central in South Beach, but he's still been about 18-8-2 there. His bball reference comps are guys like James Worthy, Jerry Lucas, Bobby Jones, and Larry Nance (the latter two are not in the HOF, but perhaps should be). Plus he's only 29.

I agree he is likely to regress, but he's been put in a weird spot on those Miami teams. He's not a center. If he were to get out of there and play PF every night and stay away from guys like Roy Hibbert, he would still be very valuable.

I didn't mean to imply that Bosh was a bust or a bad player, but he has not been a MAX contract kind of guy since arriving in Miami. I agree that the formula there is not very conducive to his success, especially in terms of statistics, but he is still the guy who made $20 mil this year for 16.6 ppg and 6.8 rpg (even worse in the playoffs). That's basically what you got from Ryan Anderson, Big Baby Davis, and Paul Milsap this past season.

Where does he rank among the PFs in the league right now? No question he is worse than Duncan, Dirk, Melo, Blake Griffin, Josh Smith, Aldridge, Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, and David Lee. Is he better than David West? West has better stats and is a far, far better defender. How about Ibaka? What about Boozer? It is hard to see Bosh as one of the Top Ten PFs in the NBA right now... though he is making $20 mil a season.

-Jason "at age 29, with almost 800 games under his belt, Bosh's best years are behind him too" Evans

[Des Esseintes]

I didn't mean to imply that Bosh was a bust or a bad player, but he has not been a MAX contract kind of guy since arriving in Miami. I agree that the formula there is not very conducive to his success, especially in terms of statistics, but he is still the guy who made $20 mil this year for 16.6 ppg and 6.8 rpg (even worse in the playoffs). That's basically what you got from Ryan Anderson, Big Baby Davis, and Paul Milsap this past season.

Where does he rank among the PFs in the league right now? No question he is worse than Duncan, Dirk, Melo, Blake Griffin, Josh Smith, Aldridge, Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, and David Lee. Is he better than David West? West has better stats and is a far, far better defender. How about Ibaka? What about Boozer? It is hard to see Bosh as one of the Top Ten PFs in the NBA right now... though he is making $20 mil a season.

-Jason "at age 29, with almost 800 games under his belt, Bosh's best years are behind him too" Evans

Not sure where you're getting this bit about Bosh being a weak defender. Some massive centers can bully him in the post, but they're relatively few on the ground. By contrast, it's a screen-and-roll league, and Bosh is widely acknowledged as one of the very best at blowing up these plays. He's central to everything Miami does on defense. West is a fine player, but most teams would rather have Bosh for the next three years. And Bosh is a far, far better player than David Lee, who is a true defensive disaster.

[brevity]

ESPN's ombudsman, Robert Lipsyte, posts an article (http://espn.go.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/48/viewers-weather-dwight-howard-storm) about ESPN's handling of the Dwight Howard coverage, focusing only on the amount of attention given and the seeming over-reliance on unnamed sources. No mention of the complete unprofessionalism from the network's stable of LA-based reporters.

[Billy Dat]

I didn't mean to imply that Bosh was a bust or a bad player, but he has not been a MAX contract kind of guy since arriving in Miami. I agree that the formula there is not very conducive to his success, especially in terms of statistics, but he is still the guy who made $20 mil this year for 16.6 ppg and 6.8 rpg (even worse in the playoffs). That's basically what you got from Ryan Anderson, Big Baby Davis, and Paul Milsap this past season.

Where does he rank among the PFs in the league right now? No question he is worse than Duncan, Dirk, Melo, Blake Griffin, Josh Smith, Aldridge, Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, and David Lee. Is he better than David West? West has better stats and is a far, far better defender. How about Ibaka? What about Boozer? It is hard to see Bosh as one of the Top Ten PFs in the NBA right now... though he is making $20 mil a season.


Not sure where you're getting this bit about Bosh being a weak defender. Some massive centers can bully him in the post, but they're relatively few on the ground. By contrast, it's a screen-and-roll league, and Bosh is widely acknowledged as one of the very best at blowing up these plays. He's central to everything Miami does on defense. West is a fine player, but most teams would rather have Bosh for the next three years. And Bosh is a far, far better player than David Lee, who is a true defensive disaster.

This Bosh debate is interesting. In the new CBA era, we have a limited sample of teams with multiple maxers. Bosh has been asked to change his game the most of the Big 3, and I think he's done a solid job finding his way with limited complaining. The Lakers are a bad comp, and there was never a time when Kobe/Howard/Pau/Nash were all healthy, but, aside from Kobe, the others all had to limit the scope of their abilities to try an co-exist. I echo Des' comments about Bosh's defense which is generally really good. Jason is right that his game seems to be on the decline, but how do you value the championship saving rebound and kick-out to Ray Allen, or Wade's huge loose ball rebound tips and corralled rebounds to secure the title. On the flip side, in Game 7, Bosh scored zero points in 28 minutes, picked up 5 fouls, etc. It's a head scratcher,

Because of Bosh's reduced offensive role on the Heat, it's hard to place him on Jason's list. Defensively, I think he's better then everyone on the list. If you replaced Bosh on the Heat with anyone on Jason's list, what would happen to their offense and where would Bosh, playing a larger role in each team's offense, rank? It's tricky.

[TexHawk]

Where does he rank among the PFs in the league right now? No question he is worse than Duncan, Dirk, Melo, Blake Griffin, Josh Smith, Aldridge, Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, and David Lee. Is he better than David West? West has better stats and is a far, far better defender. How about Ibaka? What about Boozer? It is hard to see Bosh as one of the Top Ten PFs in the NBA right now... though he is making $20 mil a season.

I don't follow all of those guys and their teams religiously, but if all were to be free agents today, I think you'd see Bosh go in the Top 3 or 4. Behind Melo, Love, and possibly Aldridge and Griffin (his game has holes that are widening). His age puts him ahead of Duncan, Dirk, Boozer, and West. His defense puts him ahead of Smith, Boozer, West, and Randolph. His offense is loads better than Ibaka's or Boozer's.

I don't think he's worth $20 million a season, but he's absolutely a Top 10 PF in the league.

[CDu]

I don't follow all of those guys and their teams religiously, but if all were to be free agents today, I think you'd see Bosh go in the Top 3 or 4. Behind Melo, Love, and possibly Aldridge and Griffin (his game has holes that are widening). His age puts him ahead of Duncan, Dirk, Boozer, and West. His defense puts him ahead of Smith, Boozer, West, and Randolph. His offense is loads better than Ibaka's or Boozer's.

I don't think he's worth $20 million a season, but he's absolutely a Top 10 PF in the league.

Slight quibble, but I wouldn't argue that Bosh is better than Smith defensively. Defense is the one thing Smith consistently seems to bring to the table. Bosh is a bit soft defensively. Now, I'd certainly put Bosh ahead of Smith, but it would be due to Bosh's offensive skills rather than his defense.