Duke Football questions

[HouseCC]

Hi board -- longtime lurker, first-time poster here. I've been a fairly close observer of Duke football since the Red Means Go era, and I'm currently working on a feature for Duke Magazine on the University's decision to make football a priority. This dates back to Cutcliffe's arrival but seems to have ratcheted up a notch or two with his recent contract extension as well as major commitments to upgrade/renovate the stadium and football facilities.

Do you, as some of the most thoughtful Duke fans around, support this decision? Do you believe it's necessary for Duke to spend the kind of money and make the considerable effort it will require to build on football's momentum? Is there a danger that over the long haul it will negatively impact basketball? What is the ceiling for Duke football's success?

I'm not trolling here -- I'm interested in what you all have to say on this topic, and will consider your thoughts for publication in the mag piece as well. Thanks!

[CameronBornAndBred]

Hi board -- longtime lurker, first-time poster here. I've been a fairly close observer of Duke football since the Red Means Go era, and I'm currently working on a feature for Duke Magazine on the University's decision to make football a priority. This dates back to Cutcliffe's arrival but seems to have ratcheted up a notch or two with his recent contract extension as well as major commitments to upgrade/renovate the stadium and football facilities.

Do you, as some of the most thoughtful Duke fans around, support this decision? Do you believe it's necessary for Duke to spend the kind of money and make the considerable effort it will require to build on football's momentum? Is there a danger that over the long haul it will negatively impact basketball? What is the ceiling for Duke football's success?

I'm not trolling here -- I'm interested in what you all have to say on this topic, and will consider your thoughts for publication in the mag piece as well. Thanks!
No offense, seriously. But being a long time lurker you hopefully have paid attention to the literally dozens of threads that are on football here, including the one or two that are on the front page now. I suggest you read back through those, use the search feature for more, and you will find more honest insights instead of just asking "so what do you think". Once you have your notes, hopefully this thread that you have started will be able to help you add some thoughts.

[OldPhiKap]

Welcome to the conversation! Like CB&B, I think there some existing threads that will give you a real-time view of things. You may find that helpful. I know I wrote an "open letter" to the football team and coaches after our bowl game, which expressed my thoughts at the time. There were many on that thread who articulated our pride and thanks better than I did.

From my perspective (T-88) I applaud the university for finally addressing the moribund embarrassment that was the Duke football program. To be absolutely clear, this comment is not an observation or criticism of the wonderful kids who committed here. Rather, it is sad recognition that they could have had a much better result if the school had developed the resources necessary to compete and fully recruit at the D-1 level.

If you are not going to try to be the best at what you do, you should not undertake the endeavor. Duke either needed to get serious about being competitive, or give up the sport. And as an ACC school, that did not seem like a realistic option. Nor is quitting ever an appealing option for an institution built on the concept of excellence.

I am proud of the attitude and competence that Cut has brought to the program, and the enthusiasm he has brought to Duke football. I have been an unapologetic supporter of the turn around he has started here. I sat in the freezing Belk Bowl weather to root on the Devils. And proud to have done so.

Am I glad that Duke football is back on the rise? You're damn right I am glad.

Good luck with your article. OPK

[Jarhead]

Hi board -- longtime lurker, first-time poster here. I've been a fairly close observer of Duke football since the Red Means Go era, and I'm currently working on a feature for Duke Magazine on the University's decision to make football a priority. This dates back to Cutcliffe's arrival but seems to have ratcheted up a notch or two with his recent contract extension as well as major commitments to upgrade/renovate the stadium and football facilities.

Do you, as some of the most thoughtful Duke fans around, support this decision? Do you believe it's necessary for Duke to spend the kind of money and make the considerable effort it will require to build on football's momentum? Is there a danger that over the long haul it will negatively impact basketball? What is the ceiling for Duke football's success?

I'm not trolling here -- I'm interested in what you all have to say on this topic, and will consider your thoughts for publication in the mag piece as well. Thanks!

Yes! Yes! No! Winning! In any activity, don't bother with it if you are not trying to succeed. Not trying is also known as failure.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Check your inbox.:cool:

[sagegrouse]

Hi board -- longtime lurker, first-time poster here. I've been a fairly close observer of Duke football since the Red Means Go era, and I'm currently working on a feature for Duke Magazine on the University's decision to make football a priority. This dates back to Cutcliffe's arrival but seems to have ratcheted up a notch or two with his recent contract extension as well as major commitments to upgrade/renovate the stadium and football facilities.

Do you, as some of the most thoughtful Duke fans around, support this decision? The decision to make football a priority? Yes, indubitably!


Do you believe it's necessary for Duke to spend the kind of money and make the considerable effort it will require to build on football's momentum?

Upon re-reading, I am sure you realized that this is a nonsense question. "... [N]ecessary to spend the ... money ... it will require." What's that mean?


Is there a danger that over the long haul it will negatively impact basketball?

I think the opposite is true. If football withers, Duke may become a specialty school like Georgetown, and all sports may suffer. I will also note that Georgetown is on an unannounced path to Div I in football, going from club to Div III to Div IA over the past decade or so.



What is the ceiling for Duke football's success?

Our models should be the three teams that for several decades were doormats in football: Northwestern, Kansas State and Wake Forest. All are competitive teams now, and NW and K-State have been very, very good. Wake won an ACC championship a ffew years ago. Our ceiling is ACC champion and BCS (or equivalent) participant.



I'm not trolling here -- I'm interested in what you all have to say on this topic, and will consider your thoughts for publication in the mag piece as well. Thanks!

I'll introduce you to my agent, Jarhead.

sagegrouse

[-bdbd]

FWIW, you might want to also try out TDD, The Devil's Den, as they have a whole board, with dozen of strings, dedicated specifically to Duke Football. (There's also a board/set of strings focused on Men's BB and one on WBB. Their FB discussion tends to be a little more detailed/in-depth that DBR's.

That said, I think you'll tend to find most folks around here, as fans, to be generally basketball-first. But as Duke fans in general, we are pretty supportive of spending what is necessary to regain respectability. And pretty clearly Coach Cut has the support of this fan community. He seems like the right guy to bring Duke back.

Importantly, with FB driving the money train that is running through college athletics these days, and consequently driving conference realignments, it would seem not even to be an option to remain disinterested in FB as an athletic department. I for one love the selections of our new AD and Head Coach, both of whom (especially with Cut and staff's increased salaries relative to predecessors) seem to demonstrate some serious interest/investment on the part of the Athletic Department to support a competitive FB program. The build-out of FB facilities in Durham is very encouraging indeed.

[Mike Corey]

I am not nearly the Duke football fan that others are, but with that caveat:

(1) Facility improvements and program investments are long overdue, but very welcome all the same. Duke strives for excellence, and athletics are no exception; facilities, for better or worse, are necessary to attract talent, retain talent, and develop talent, and to attract fans, retain fans, and develop fans.
(2) The financial investment is necessary, but cannot happen alone. It must coincide with other changes, the biggest of which happened when Cutcliffe was hired and was given the latitude to hire the staff of his choice (with the necessary expenditures to boot). Seeing Duke assistants be pulled away to NFL teams and major BCS teams is a very positive sign, even though we'd like to keep that sort of talent around a little longer...such is the product of success.
(3) Basketball will not be negatively affected; basketball would be strengthened.

[budwom]

OldPhiKap summarized it nicely. For a school which justifiably strives for excellence in all areas, the football program pre-Cutcliffe was simply astonishingly, inexcusably bad due to
underinvestment in just about every area: coaching salaries, budget, facilities, on and on. Some of us who have followed Duke football quite religiously for the past 40 years
were reduced to wondering how long we could possibly be this disgracefully bad.....multiple years of zero wins.

Now it will be interesting to see what the ceiling might be for the program. Winning the ACC may not be within our grasp (tough to compete with schools
where players don't have to attend class), but aiming for six to eight wins per year seems quite realistic. We are already scheduling four winnable
out of conference games per year (dropping schools like Alabama), so the formula is pretty simple: win three or four of those OOC games and three or four
in conference games, and Bob's your uncle. All while maintaining a program with legitimate student athletes.

[orrnot]

From 1989 to 2009, I think the most remarkable feature of the Duke athletics landscape was the football program's dismal failure. The 4th national title in 2010, to my thinking, restored the men's basketball program's success to well-deserved preeminence in that calculation. I don't imagine my opinion is widely shared, but I do think it's a debatable point, and sadly so. Aside from the debate, the point is that the program's failure tarnished everything associated with it.
I wish that climbing out of the hole were not so egregiously expensive, and I would support efforts by Duke to participate in widespread reforms that de-emphasized nationwide intercollegiate athletics spending.

[CameronBornAndBred]

From 1989 to 2009, I think the most remarkable feature of the Duke athletics landscape was the football program's dismal failure. The 4th national title in 2010, to my thinking, restored the men's basketball program's success to well-deserved preeminence in that calculation. I don't imagine my opinion is widely shared, but I do think it's a debatable point, and sadly so. Aside from the debate, the point is that the program's failure tarnished everything associated with it.
I wish that climbing out of the hole were not so egregiously expensive, and I would support efforts by Duke to participate in widespread reforms that de-emphasized nationwide intercollegiate athletics spending.
I would think the '91, '92, and '01 bball teams disagree with you.

[HouseCC]

Thanks to those who have chimed in here so far, as well as a few of you who have PM'd me. CB&B, I'll check out the earlier threads but would not want to include old comments in a magazine piece focusing on what people think *now*, in light of Duke's decision to invest tens of millions of fresh capital in football, and the O'Bannon lawsuit (in court today) that may result in the increasing football-money-driven professionalization of big-time college sports, and the simultaneous and increasing separation of the top 5 conferences from the rest of the NCAA, again driven by football. Part of what makes this interesting and thought-provoking is that the landscape is changing so rapidly, and the issues that brings up for a "fine mental institution" -- as Red used to say -- such as Duke. I'm curious whether anybody's mind is being changed, one way or another, by these ongoing developments.

BD, appreciate the suggestion. I thought about the Devil's Den football threads but I think this board better represents the universe of Duke fans, most of whom think basketball first, second and third, but also found themselves jumping out of their seats at the finish of last year's Carolina football game.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Thanks to those who have chimed in here so far, as well as a few of you who have PM'd me. CB&B, I'll check out the earlier threads but would not want to include old comments in a magazine piece focusing on what people think *now*, in light of Duke's decision to invest tens of millions of fresh capital in football, and the O'Bannon lawsuit (in court today) that may result in the increasing football-money-driven professionalization of big-time college sports, and the simultaneous and increasing separation of the top 5 conferences from the rest of the NCAA, again driven by football. Part of what makes this interesting and thought-provoking is that the landscape is changing so rapidly, and the issues that brings up for a "fine mental institution" -- as Red used to say -- such as Duke. I'm curious whether anybody's mind is being changed, one way or another, by these ongoing developments.

BD, appreciate the suggestion. I thought about the Devil's Den football threads but I think this board better represents the universe of Duke fans, most of whom think basketball first, second and third, but also found themselves jumping out of their seats at the finish of last year's Carolina football game.
I'll help you out, neither of these threads are a year old.
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?29566-Athletic-Facilities-Improvements&highlight=upgrades
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?29280-DukeForward-Improvements-to-Wallace-Wade-Cameron-Other-Athletic-Facilities&highlight=upgrades