Top 5 NBA Players by Position

[luburch]

Watching Tony Parker dismantle the Heat defense got me thinking about how he is the best point guard in the game. Witch made me wonder who else would round out the top five of current point guards and who the top five at each position would be. So below are my top five rankings for each position and I was curious to hear what everyone else thought.

Some players can play multiple positions, but i put them where I thought they were most effective.

Point Guards
1. Tony Parker
2. Chris Paul
3. Russel Westbrook
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Mike Conley

I decided to not include Rondo and Rose, because they missed a large chunk of the season and I'm a little nervous about how they will return from injury.

Shooting Guards
1. Stephen Curry
2. James Harden
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Andre Iguodala
5. Manu Ginobili

It could be argued that Curry is a PG, and he certainly does play that position a lot, however I feel he is more effective as a shooting guard. I have Bryant down the list at third because of his injury and his age is beginning to catch up with him. I debated not putting Manu on the list, but last night he showed what he is still capable of.

Small Forwards
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul George
5. Rudy Gay

LeBron and Durant are the most obvious choices on any of my lists. Carmelo could be played at PF, but I feel more comfortable putting him here.

Power Forwards
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Love
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Blake Griffin
5. Dirk Nowitzki

I know many people consider Tim Duncan a center, but he's listed as a PF and to me he feels like a PF. Kevin Love was injured for almost the entire season, but I have more faith in his ability to come back and produce than I do Rose/Rondo. I struggled with putting Dirk, who is on the decline, ahead of David Lee, but it can really go either way. Bosh could also be placed in the argument.

Centers
1. Marc Gasol
2. Dwight Howard
3. Al Horford
4. Brook Lopez
5. Roy Hibbert

Marc Gasol had an amazing season and Dwight had his struggles so that's why I put Marc at number one. I can see where people would debate having Hibbert at number five, but defensively I think he is the best center in the game.

There's a good chance that I missed some players. I'd love to see all of your rankings or here your thoughts and opinions!

[Li_Duke]

Watching Tony Parker dismantle the Heat defense got me thinking about how he is the best point guard in the game. Witch made me wonder who else would round out the top five of current point guards and who the top five at each position would be. So below are my top five rankings for each position and I was curious to hear what everyone else thought.

Some players can play multiple positions, but i put them where I thought they were most effective.

Point Guards
1. Tony Parker
2. Chris Paul
3. Russel Westbrook
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Mike Conley

I decided to not include Rondo and Rose, because they missed a large chunk of the season and I'm a little nervous about how they will return from injury.

Shooting Guards
1. Stephen Curry
2. James Harden
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Andre Iguodala
5. Manu Ginobili

It could be argued that Curry is a PG, and he certainly does play that position a lot, however I feel he is more effective as a shooting guard. I have Bryant down the list at third because of his injury and his age is beginning to catch up with him. I debated not putting Manu on the list, but last night he showed what he is still capable of.

Small Forwards
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul George
5. Rudy Gay

LeBron and Durant are the most obvious choices on any of my lists. Carmelo could be played at PF, but I feel more comfortable putting him here.

Power Forwards
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Love
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Blake Griffin
5. Dirk Nowitzki

I know many people consider Tim Duncan a center, but he's listed as a PF and to me he feels like a PF. Kevin Love was injured for almost the entire season, but I have more faith in his ability to come back and produce than I do Rose/Rondo. I struggled with putting Dirk, who is on the decline, ahead of David Lee, but it can really go either way. Bosh could also be placed in the argument.

Centers
1. Marc Gasol
2. Dwight Howard
3. Al Horford
4. Brook Lopez
5. Roy Hibbert

Marc Gasol had an amazing season and Dwight had his struggles so that's why I put Marc at number one. I can see where people would debate having Hibbert at number five, but defensively I think he is the best center in the game.

There's a good chance that I missed some players. I'd love to see all of your rankings or here your thoughts and opinions!

I can't quibble with your top 3 PGs in some order. Too many choices for #4 and #5 though. If Rose and Rondo return to being as good as they were before their injuries, I'd say they would complete the top 5. Otherwise I'd choose Deron Williams and Kyrie Irving. After that, Conley, Wall, Lillard, Lawson, Holiday, Jennings, and Walker in some order. Point guard is deep in the NBA.

On the other hand, shooting guard is not deep in the NBA. Again, I agree with your top 3 in some order, along with a healthy Dwayne Wade. Iguodala is a great defender, and Ginobili is great when he's playing like last night, but neither stands out as a clear #5 in my mind. I'd perhaps go with an up and comer like Klay Thompson here.

For the small forwards, I agree with your top 4, but Rudy Gay doesn't come close to top 5 in my mind. I'd prefer any of Pierce, Deng, Batum, Leonard, or a 3s and D guy like Green over Gay.

Can't quibble with the power forwards in some order. Garnett, Bosh, Ibaka, Monroe, Randolph, Pau Gasol (struggled all last year) would all be worth considering too. I wouldn't put David Lee on that list; his defense is terrible! He's basically a "go for his numbers" guy.

Also can't quibble with the centers in some order, but I think Larry Sanders deserves mention too.

[CDu]

Watching Tony Parker dismantle the Heat defense got me thinking about how he is the best point guard in the game. Witch made me wonder who else would round out the top five of current point guards and who the top five at each position would be. So below are my top five rankings for each position and I was curious to hear what everyone else thought.

Some players can play multiple positions, but i put them where I thought they were most effective.

Point Guards
1. Tony Parker
2. Chris Paul
3. Russel Westbrook
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Mike Conley

I decided to not include Rondo and Rose, because they missed a large chunk of the season and I'm a little nervous about how they will return from injury.

Interesting that you have excluded Rose and Rondo from the list due to injuries, but you've included Westbrook (who injured his knee) and Bryant (who is likely to be out for a good bit of next season with the achilles injury, and may never return to form because of it).

I'd go with the following:
1. Paul
2. Parker
3. Westbrook
4. Rose
5. Rondo


Shooting Guards
1. Stephen Curry
2. James Harden
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Andre Iguodala
5. Manu Ginobili

It could be argued that Curry is a PG, and he certainly does play that position a lot, however I feel he is more effective as a shooting guard. I have Bryant down the list at third because of his injury and his age is beginning to catch up with him. I debated not putting Manu on the list, but last night he showed what he is still capable of.

1. Harden
2. Wade
3. Curry
4. Bryant
5. Ginobili


Small Forwards
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul George
5. Rudy Gay

LeBron and Durant are the most obvious choices on any of my lists. Carmelo could be played at PF, but I feel more comfortable putting him here.

1. James
2. Durant
3. Anthony
4. George
5. Deng


Power Forwards
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Love
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Blake Griffin
5. Dirk Nowitzki

I know many people consider Tim Duncan a center, but he's listed as a PF and to me he feels like a PF. Kevin Love was injured for almost the entire season, but I have more faith in his ability to come back and produce than I do Rose/Rondo. I struggled with putting Dirk, who is on the decline, ahead of David Lee, but it can really go either way. Bosh could also be placed in the argument.

Not sure why you think Rose won't come back and produce. Plenty of guys have torn ACLs and come back to produce. Reports were that he was basically healthy enough to play 4 months ago, but chose not to do so. And Coach Thibs said this week that Rose is finally feeling back to normal physically.

As for the PF list, I think I agree with it.


Centers
1. Marc Gasol
2. Dwight Howard
3. Al Horford
4. Brook Lopez
5. Roy Hibbert

I agree with this one.

[luburch]

Interesting that you have excluded Rose and Rondo from the list due to injuries, but you've included Westbrook (who injured his knee) and Bryant (who is likely to be out for a good bit of next season with the achilles injury, and may never return to form because of it).


Not sure why you think Rose won't come back and produce. Plenty of guys have torn ACLs and come back to produce. Reports were that he was basically healthy enough to play 4 months ago, but chose not to do so. And Coach Thibs said this week that Rose is finally feeling back to normal physically.



Westbrook was injured in the playoffs and his injury wasn't as serious. So I decided to include him, but not Rose and Rondo who missed greater periods of time.


Plenty of guys do come back and produce just fine and some do not. I believe it's more mental for rose this year than physical and after missing a year there could be a rust issue. Also much of his game revolves around how explosive of a player he is and he may have lost some of that due to injury.

[CDu]

Westbrook was injured in the playoffs and his injury wasn't as serious. So I decided to include him, but not Rose and Rondo who missed greater periods of time.

Sure, Westbrook's injury was less severe. But what about Bryant?


Plenty of guys do come back and produce just fine and some do not. I believe it's more mental for rose this year than physical and after missing a year there could be a rust issue. Also much of his game revolves around how explosive of a player he is and he may have lost some of that due to injury.

I don't know that I can think of any recent (i.e., in the last 10-15 years) young player who didn't fully recover and return to at, near, or better than his previous success after an ACL tear. I can think of multiple examples of guys whose games were based on explosive athleticism who returned to play as well or better than before: Baron Davis (the first time around - not his most recent injury at the end of his career), Kyle Lowry, Jamal Crawford.

And even if he doesn't return to his uber-elite athletic gifts (something I doubt), I'd still expect him to be better than Mike Conley.

I'd also expect Rondo (who is less reliant on freakish athleticism than Rose) to be better than Conley.

[greybeard]

I'd have Hibbert higher, in the top three, among which I don't think there is very much difference. .

Rose played his position in unique fashion: power, explosiveness, and amazing acrobatic finishes, but no outside jump shot to speak of from any range. I think that that game will not be seen again, that, while the doctors had pronounced Rose ready to return, he didn't want to return to his old style of play and place his body, that leg in particular, to the dangers that that old style posed.

I think that Rose has been training for some time to develop a mid and long range game that he will feature. I think that rather than always looking to get inside the lane to finish, Rose will look to hurt people with his jump shot, put up numbers with his jump shot, and that his penetrations will feature many more early dishes than before. His finishes will be less acrobatic. I think that Rose is the new type superstar who will put his long-term well being ahead of playing a style that will predictably injure him. Should he return to play his old style, he will get injured more and more frequently, and the percentages are that something quite serious like greater damage to his knees will occur.

In short, I think that Rose is in the process of emulating Tiger; he is developing a new swing not to hit the ball better but to swing in a way that will best protect his knee. Tiger might well have had no choice; his leg (knee) might not have been able to tolerate the old Tiger's attack on the ball. Rose, I think, has more choice. I hope I am right and that his failure to return this season portends that he has been using his ability to choose wisely.

[BD80]

... Rose played his position in unique fashion: power, explosiveness, and amazing acrobatic finishes, but no outside jump shot to speak of from any range. I think that that game will not be seen again, that, while the doctors had pronounced Rose ready to return, he didn't want to return to his old style of play and place his body, that leg in particular, to the dangers that that old style posed.

I think that Rose has been training for some time to develop a mid and long range game that he will feature. I think that rather than always looking to get inside the lane to finish, Rose will look to hurt people with his jump shot, put up numbers with his jump shot, and that his penetrations will feature many more early dishes than before. His finishes will be less acrobatic. I think that Rose is the new type superstar who will put his long-term well being ahead of playing a style that will predictably injure him. ... .

And he'll have Scotty Pippen to defend him:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/9395002/scottie-pippen-derrick-rose-deserve-criticism-sitting-season

Which I find humorous and a bit pathetic. This is really just Scotty trying to rewrite history, to convince people he really wasn't gutless when he bailed on a Conference Championship game because of a headache, and more because he couldn't handle the pressure. Pippen is using Rose's "reluctance" to return to action to excuse his own failure years ago. The money quote, even though talking about Rose's situation:

"Sometimes as a player, you're not there yet. The doctor can tell you the headache is gone, but he don't totally know that it is gone unless he can get in your head."

[licc85]

Nice post, but allow me pick some nits:

How is Joakim Noah not a top 5 center? I'd say he's #2 after Gasol. I'm gonna just assume you forgot about him, considering you had Lopez up there even after the Bulls beat the Nets with Noah playing on 1 leg.

Also . . I don't see how you can consider Curry a 2 guard. He's an amazing shooter, but he plays the point guard position for his team, and he's actually an awesome distributor. He rarely plays the role of a 2 guard on offense (basically only when he and Jarrett Jack are both in the game, and only sometimes even in that lineup, since Jack is a tunnel vision scoring ball hog) and never defends 2s, so there's just no way he can be considered a 2 guard. He's the 4 or 5th best PG.

Chris Bosh needs to be on this list. He's been having a sub-par playoffs, but just because a player has a bad stretch doesn't exclude their entire body of work. I'd certainly put Bosh above Nowitzki at PF, and maybe even above Griffin.

Also, you can't leave out Rose/Rondo and include Kevin Love . . . they all missed most of the season.

[sagegrouse]

Watching Tony Parker dismantle the Heat defense got me thinking about how he is the best point guard in the game. Witch made me wonder who else would round out the top five of current point guards and who the top five at each position would be. So below are my top five rankings for each position and I was curious to hear what everyone else thought.

Some players can play multiple positions, but i put them where I thought they were most effective.

Point Guards
1. Tony Parker
2. Chris Paul
3. Russel Westbrook
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Mike Conley

I decided to not include Rondo and Rose, because they missed a large chunk of the season and I'm a little nervous about how they will return from injury.

Shooting Guards
1. Stephen Curry
2. James Harden
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Andre Iguodala
5. Manu Ginobili

It could be argued that Curry is a PG, and he certainly does play that position a lot, however I feel he is more effective as a shooting guard. I have Bryant down the list at third because of his injury and his age is beginning to catch up with him. I debated not putting Manu on the list, but last night he showed what he is still capable of.

Small Forwards
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul George
5. Rudy Gay

LeBron and Durant are the most obvious choices on any of my lists. Carmelo could be played at PF, but I feel more comfortable putting him here.

Power Forwards
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Love
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Blake Griffin
5. Dirk Nowitzki

I know many people consider Tim Duncan a center, but he's listed as a PF and to me he feels like a PF. Kevin Love was injured for almost the entire season, but I have more faith in his ability to come back and produce than I do Rose/Rondo. I struggled with putting Dirk, who is on the decline, ahead of David Lee, but it can really go either way. Bosh could also be placed in the argument.

Centers
1. Marc Gasol
2. Dwight Howard
3. Al Horford
4. Brook Lopez
5. Roy Hibbert

Marc Gasol had an amazing season and Dwight had his struggles so that's why I put Marc at number one. I can see where people would debate having Hibbert at number five, but defensively I think he is the best center in the game.

There's a good chance that I missed some players. I'd love to see all of your rankings or here your thoughts and opinions!

And, to make it a Duke topic, how many of these players have played for Coach K? I count 15 who played on the 2008 or 2012 Olympics, the 2010 FIBA championship, or -- ahem -- at Duke.

Andre Iguodala
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard
James Harden
Kevin Durant
Kevin Love
Kobe Bryant
Kyrie Irving
LeBron James
Marc Gasol
Paul George
Rudy Gay
Russel Westbrook
Stephen Curry

Of the missing ten, several would not qualify for the US team due to citizenship: Horford, Ginobili, Parker, and Nowitzki.

Tim Duncan retired from FIBA and Olympics hoops after the 2004 disappointment.

Blake Griffin, IIRC, was gonna play some time but got injured and will probably play in the future.

And these guys are coming up strong and could play in 2014 FIBA or 2016 Olympics:

Brook Lopez
LaMarcus Aldridge
Mike Conley
Roy Hibbert

sagegrouse

[greybeard]

And he'll have Scotty Pippen to defend him:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/9395002/scottie-pippen-derrick-rose-deserve-criticism-sitting-season

Which I find humorous and a bit pathetic. This is really just Scotty trying to rewrite history, to convince people he really wasn't gutless when he bailed on a Conference Championship game because of a headache, and more because he couldn't handle the pressure. Pippen is using Rose's "reluctance" to return to action to excuse his own failure years ago. The money quote, even though talking about Rose's situation:

"Sometimes as a player, you're not there yet. The doctor can tell you the headache is gone, but he don't totally know that it is gone unless he can get in your head."

I think that Scottie's got way the better of this, way. If HE felt he was ready and the doctors agreed, then why in the world would he not have played? And, like Scottie says, if Rose didn't play it by definition did not think he was ready to put his body on the line in the ferocity that is playoff basketball. Who can second guess him? Kyrie keeps coming back and keeps going down. Wait until, and I am not hoping this, he really rips up a knee, and again comes back "as soon as possible." Ask Earl what happens to the twisters and turners 20 years down the road. Black Jesus, as they called them. hobbles around and is in constant pain. Rose, if he's smart and it seems that he is, will be ready when he is ready. What that comprises is up to him, not some doctors who know nothing about what goes on with Rose, the incredible body/mind that he is, when he does what he does. When I say, "nothing," I mean nothing. They fold what they call a knee, torque it this way and that, and pronounce it alright. But, what about Rose, who is all around that part that we call a "Knee" and it is how Rose uses himself, the unique and complex way in which Rose uses himself, that determines completely what we call a knee actually is, how that part of him does what he needs it to and where it leaves Rose when he goes out on the court after those ligaments have been shredded and replaced.

Here's news for you, sports fans. What happens to the fear that resides in Rose that this devastation that was visited on him will return again? Does it effect how he moves, how his body and mind let him use himself, is there fear so deep in those muscles, the parts of the brain that control those muscles and that resides below the consciousness that holds Rose back, is there wisdom that speaks to him and says, "Not Yet," I have to figure more of this out, I have to feel "it" without necessarily knowing what it is and that it may be that what he actually needs is to stop feeling which his conscious mind does not see, these are questions that doctors and fans and coaches and commentators do not ask. Nor do most of us wnen we get injured doing activities that we love; all we want to know is when we can get back. We now know that football players had no choice but to get shot up before games and during half-time when the pain in their bodies screamed that they could not "go." Playing hurt should be made of sterner stuff, neigh it should go away. \

Am I the only one that believes that D Wade these last two games has been shot up with prescription pain killers, selling reducers (steroids) to allow him to perform "normally" with a body that was not nearly suited for it, not nearly his normal?

To me it is remarkable that the old warriors, the best coaches around, have had back and hip replacement surgeries yet honor the concept, "playing hurt" if the doctors say that it is okay. I'd honor the players now who are standing up and saying, my health is important, I do not need to rush coming to terms in an intellectual fashion why it is so that I do not feel ready and do not justify my decision to you. It is me that will have to live with me forever once the lights go out, and I want to be as hole as possible. This injury has threatened and damaged my well being and I need to heal and grieve and make good choices, choices that I can live with as I continue to fight in the arena. "Does it not please you," they ask in a silent voice and care not the answer. Good for them. Good for Derik Rose. And, good for Scotty Pippin who I think put it in pretty on point terms what's really going on with this "playing hurt business," with doctors who clear players to play and then shoot them up minutes before they enter the arena so that they can, and with the new thinking of the stars who have begun to question in growing numbers whether this madness ends.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I'm a Chicago guy, so I should be excused for my homerism a bit here:

1. Derrick Rose is a top 5 PG in this league. Irving may be as good or better some day, but we shall have to see after this next season.
2. Joakim Noah is #2 or #3 center, after only Marc Gasol and maybe Roy Hibbert. Brook Lopez was owned by Noah in the playoffs, and Noah was coming off an injury. He was limited to 25 minutes in the first few games of that series (which was great if you didn't watch it) and still outplayed Lopez. There is no way Lopez is better than Noah.

[luburch]

My apologies to all, Noah did completely slip my mind while creating this list.

I put Curry at the two because I feel he is a better player when he is coming off of screens and catching the ball on the wing. I know he plays the point regularly and does an outstanding job, he has a great handle and passes very well, but I put him at the two.

I decided to include Kevin Love because I feel that his game isn't as threatened by his injury. His style of play will be the same regardless, so I feel I know what I can expect from him when he returns.

[JNort]

Point Guards
1. Chris Paul
2. Rajon Rondo
3. Derick Rose
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Tony Parker

Russel Westbrook and Steph Curry both missed my cut but barely. The NBA is loaded with quality pgs as of now and its hard to fit them all on. Yes I included Steph at PG which IMO is his position.

Shooting Guards
1. Kobe
2. Paul George
3. Harden
4. Wade
5. Andre Igoudala

Kobe can still play with the best of them (as of last year anyway), Paul George actually plays at SG when Granger is healthy so he made my list.

Small Forwards
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Danny Granger
5. Paul Pierce

Not many good SFs after Granger so I put P.P. as the default. Perhaps Barnes makes the jump next year

Power Forwards
1. Kevin Love
2. Tim Duncan
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Chris Bosh
5. Pau Gasol

Really hard to leave Blake off but outside of dunking he isn't much good at anything else. Dirk is also left of just because the others are so good, he would not have made a top for me because 6th I would take Josh Smith

Centers
1. Dwight Howard
2a. Marc Gasol
2b. Joakim Noah
4. Al Horford
5. Roy Hibbert

A healthy Dwight is waaayyy better then the next best C in the nba right now IMO. Not a (Marc) Gasol fan and I am not even sure I should rate him as even with Noah but I will give him some respect although he did not deserve that DPOY award. Hibbert could be top 3 next year.

[CDu]

I'm a Chicago guy, so I should be excused for my homerism a bit here:

1. Derrick Rose is a top 5 PG in this league. Irving may be as good or better some day, but we shall have to see after this next season.
2. Joakim Noah is #2 or #3 center, after only Marc Gasol and maybe Roy Hibbert. Brook Lopez was owned by Noah in the playoffs, and Noah was coming off an injury. He was limited to 25 minutes in the first few games of that series (which was great if you didn't watch it) and still outplayed Lopez. There is no way Lopez is better than Noah.

As a fellow Chicago guy, I'm with you (more or less) on both points. I think the concern about his return from the knee injury is overblown. He's going to return next year, and he's going to return as an elite player.

I'm also embarrassed to admit that I forgot about Noah. But I absolutely agree that he's a top-5 center. Noah isn't as good a scorer as Lopez, but he's such a dominant defensive player (best in the league when healthy) and such a good ballhandler and passer that it more than offsets his scoring. Now that Duncan and Garnett are on their last legs, I'd put only Howard definitely ahead of Noah. Gasol is in the same neighborhood. Hibbert and Lopez are behind him, in my opinion.

[FerryFor50]

Point Guards
1. Chris Paul
2. Rajon Rondo
3. Derick Rose
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Tony Parker

Russel Westbrook and Steph Curry both missed my cut but barely. The NBA is loaded with quality pgs as of now and its hard to fit them all on. Yes I included Steph at PG which IMO is his position.


I dunno. I think Curry outplayed Parker in their series.

And I think it's tough to leave Westbrook out of that list. As much as I like Kyrie, I'd put Westbrook in over him.

[licc85]

PG is the deepest position by far in the league. I think Kyrie is in the top 5, but just barely.

In my opinion, the top 10 is:

1. Chris Paul
2. Tony Parker
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Derrick Rose
5. Kyrie Irving
6. Stephen Curry
7. Rajon Rondo
8. Deron Williams
9. Jrue Holiday
10. Ty Lawson

[JNort]

I dunno. I think Curry outplayed Parker in their series.

And I think it's tough to leave Westbrook out of that list. As much as I like Kyrie, I'd put Westbrook in over him.

Yes but at the same time we all have different preferences. One could argue that Russel is better than CP3 because he can score easier. I think Kyrie's all around offensive game is better than Russel's.

PS. Not directed at you but I don't want to do any name calling but let me say one last thing. Under SF's I said Barnes "could" make the jump ahead of Pierce not will make the jump. Pierce has 2 to 3 guys ahead of him offensively on his team while Barnes has just Curry. Sure Thompson will put up more shots than Barnes most likely but they will prob get equal (or close enough anyway) opportunities too shine next year. Pierce is declining while Barnes is just entering his second year and showed a lot of promise in the playoffs, meanwhile Pierce is in a new town on a new team I doubt he keeps up his already declining production. SO next time instead of giving negative feedback for a legit opinion try pointing out why you think what you do.