PJ Hairston Suspended Indefinitely

[Billy Dat]

Report: North Carolina's P.J. Hairston arrested on drug charges
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22362684/report-north-carolinas-pj-hairston-arrested-on-drug-charges

I don't see any mention of what kind of drugs they were.

[plimnko]

i just saw on wral it was a small amount of pot.

[CharlestonDevil]

Report: North Carolina's P.J. Hairston arrested on drug charges
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22362684/report-north-carolinas-pj-hairston-arrested-on-drug-charges

I don't see any mention of what kind of drugs they were.

Reefer.

Arrested by the Durham police. Was also driving without a license.

[billy]

Report: North Carolina's P.J. Hairston arrested on drug charges
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22362684/report-north-carolinas-pj-hairston-arrested-on-drug-charges

I don't see any mention of what kind of drugs they were.

For the sake of our collective health, any chance to rename this "P.J. Hairston Busted", just so there's no confusion w/Josh.

[Billy Dat]

For the sake of our collective health, any chance to rename this "P.J. Hairston Busted", just so there's no confusion w/Josh.

Good call, my bad! If he got caught with a little herb, I see this much ado about nothing but that will be for the law and Huck Hound to decide, I guess.

[CarmenWallaceWade]

For the sake of our collective health, any chance to rename this "P.J. Hairston Busted", just so there's no confusion w/Josh.

Or maybe "TJ Harrellson Busted"?

[jipops]

Bring back Crime Beat!!

[MCFinARL]

I understand, and can't really disagree with, the point made on the front page about pot. Smoking weed occasionally seems to be a pretty typical part of the college experience these days. Athletes are often held to a higher standard than other students on matters like that, and it's debatable whether that is always fair.

On the other hand, you just can't be driving without a license.

Curious whether P.J. will lose his invitation to the World University Games tryouts over this incident.

[killerleft]

Yawn. This DOES mean, however, that I get to break the news to his cousin here in Greensboro, who works with me. Perhaps we can call him THC Hairston from now on?

[Ichabod Drain]

Yawn. This DOES mean, however, that I get to break the news to his cousin here in Greensboro, who works with me. Perhaps we can call him THC Hairston from now on?

PJ can really light it up out there...

[hurleyfor3]

Wait, pot's illegal where you people live?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

The incident does raise some interesting questions. Who were the other guys (two according to one story)? Whose car? Why in that neighborhood? I know that part of Durham from my work in the schools. Easy purchases if you know who/where to ask.

I don't rejoice over this mishap. Such an incident is sad, discouraging and disappointing.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I hate when the media makes a deal out of any athlete being busted for pot. Don't Smoke Dope, Kids, You'll Wind Up Like This Guy!!!! (An elite athlete and soon to be millionaire).
However, they do need to dig in and find where the weed came from....if that herb was a gift from a booster, he's done for!!

[BD80]

In related news, unc alum George Karl got smoked by the Nuggets - pot is legal in Denver isn't it?

[Dev11]

In related news, unc alum George Karl got smoked by the Nuggets - pot is legal in Denver isn't it?

Chill dude, the Nugs are gonna be fine............

[BismarckDuke]

I hate when the media makes a deal out of any athlete being busted for pot. Don't Smoke Dope, Kids, You'll Wind Up Like This Guy!!!! (An elite athlete and soon to be millionaire).

I think you should finish the story line...

An elite athlete and soon to be millionaire. And then will retire, become broke within 5 years because he spent all his money on drugs and becomes a bum.

There are only a few stars the make something of their life after sports and I don't put PJ in that group. Now had he gone to Duke and learned something, well...

[ChillinDuke]

The incident does raise some interesting questions. Who were the other guys (two according to one story)? Whose car? Why in that neighborhood? I know that part of Durham from my work in the schools. Easy purchases if you know who/where to ask.

I don't rejoice over this mishap. Such an incident is sad, discouraging and disappointing.

Yeah, the details are a little hazy...

- Chillin

[wilko]

I hate when the media makes a deal out of any athlete being busted for pot. Don't Smoke Dope, Kids, You'll Wind Up Like This Guy!!!! (An elite athlete and soon to be millionaire).
However, they do need to dig in and find where the weed came from....if that herb was a gift from a booster, he's done for!!

I can forgive the weed. I cant forgive him for being an idiot that got caught. He deserves the heat for that.

[noworries]

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2013/03/durham-crime-crosses-over

Looks like the page has turned...

[loran16]

I understand, and can't really disagree with, the point made on the front page about pot. Smoking weed occasionally seems to be a pretty typical part of the college experience these days. Athletes are often held to a higher standard than other students on matters like that, and it's debatable whether that is always fair.

On the other hand, you just can't be driving without a license.

Curious whether P.J. will lose his invitation to the World University Games tryouts over this incident.

The bold part is how I feel - also you shouldnt' be smoking weed and driving if that's what he was doing. College kids are still kids, and weed on its own hurts no one but the user. But Licenses and not being under any influence - even the lesser influence of marijuana - are important things.

[DevilWearsPrada]

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1297586.html

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- Sources close to the program have confirmed that UNC head coach Roy Williams met with P.J. Hairston on Thursday morning concerning his possession of marijuana charge.

North Carolina's leading scorer was stopped at a license check in Durham at 10:20pm on Wednesday night and was also charged with driving without a license.



Kids and adults make mistakes. PJ should have let someone drive the vehicle with a Valid Driver license. There are random Driver License Check Points in Durham, all the time!!!
Bless His Heart!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1297586.html

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- Sources close to the program have confirmed that UNC head coach Roy Williams met with P.J. Hairston on Thursday morning concerning his possession of marijuana charge.

North Carolina's leading scorer was stopped at a license check in Durham at 10:20pm on Wednesday night and was also charged with driving without a license.



Kids and adults make mistakes. PJ should have let someone drive the vehicle with a Valid Driver license. There are random Driver License Check Points in Durham, all the time!!!
Bless His Heart!

I agree with you. There is more to be unraveled in this situation, including whose car was it PJ was driving.

[Olympic Fan]

I agree that a college student getting busted for a small amount of weed is no big deal. I'm 64 years old, but I favor legalization.

But ... a couple of points I'd want to check before dismissing this.

(1) I assume he was just transporting his drug purchase back to his apartment ... if he was driving under the influence, that would be a different story (the difference between having a six-pack of beers in the car and driving drunk. Even if the kid with the six-pack was underage, no big deal -- FWIW, I think the driving age should be 18). Again I'm assuming, but if he was actually smoking the stuff, I'm sure he would be charged with driving under the influence.

(2) I'm a bit confused about the driving without a license. Does he have a license and he just forgot to bring it? That's a minor fault (you are SUPPOSED to have it with you) that's usually erased when you show up in court and present your license. But what if he doesn't have a license? Period. That's more serious. The worst would be that he has a license and it has been suspended. THAT would be a serious crime. However, I assume that if that were the case, it would have been a different charge. Still, did he forget his license or did he not have one -- big difference.

(3) I would want to know who owns the car he was driving and who the license plate was registered to. The reason I ask if that one aspect of the UNC scandal that got swept under the rug were the players driving loaner cars from dealers with multiple license plates (in most cases provided by a Durham car dealer who was convicted of laundering drug money).

[-bdbd]

Just Waiting for the IC Thread on this...

[75Crazie]

In related news, unc alum George Karl got smoked by the Nuggets - pot is legal in Denver isn't it?
Are there any other examples of a coach winning coach-of-the-year and getting fired after the same season?

[-bdbd]

IC :

"PJ Volunteers Time, Driving Around Delivering Medical Maijuana for Children Cancer Patients..."

[quahog174]

kwamba magugu si yangu
"that weed isn't mine" in Swahili

[Billy Dat]

IC :

"PJ Volunteers Time, Driving Around Delivering Medical Maijuana for Children Cancer Patients..."

"Hairston Thwarts Suspected Drug Deal, Abducted by Perps, Arrested in Misunderstanding akin to Duke Lacrosse Case"

[devildeac]

Boink, boink, puff, puff, pass, ahhhhhhhhh...

[Duvall]

Boink, boink, puff, puff, pass, ahhhhhhhhh...

Uh, we are talking about PJ Hairston here...

[Dev11]

Are there any other examples of a coach winning coach-of-the-year and getting fired after the same season?

Davey Johnson won AL Coach of the Year for the Orioles and then was fired that offseason, but that was like 15 years ago.

[devildeac]

Uh, we are toking about PJ Hairston here...

Fixed it for you;).

Well played.

I wasn't referring to the "rock." But, if he passed, we could probably work "dime" into the conversation, too:rolleyes:;).

[Newton_14]

Fixed it for you;).

Well played.

I wasn't referring to the "rock." But, if he passed, we could probably work "dime" into the conversation, too:rolleyes:;).

Good one Duvall.

DD, PJ passes the weed even less than he passes the ball. :cool:

[Atlanta Duke]

I think you should finish the story line...

An elite athlete and soon to be millionaire. And then will retire, become broke within 5 years because he spent all his money on drugs and becomes a bum..

Because everyone who smoked pot in college ends up a bankrupt drug addict? I still have managed to hold on to enough $$ for an internet connection despite my use of the evil weed in college :)

[sagegrouse]

Are there any other examples of a coach winning coach-of-the-year and getting fired after the same season?

In the 1950s Frank Leahy at Notre Dame got fired after an undefeated season AND a Heisman Trophy winner (Johnny Lattner, IIRC). It ushered in Terry Brennan, Joe Kuharich and a decade of mediocre football that ended when Ara was hired.

Casey Stengel got fired in 1960 after winning an AL pennant but losing to the Pirates in the World Series. In 12 years Stengel had ten pennants and seven World Series championships. Of course, he was 70 at the time he was let go, but went on to manage the Mets from 1962-1965.

sagegrouse

[noworries]

I agree that a college student getting busted for a small amount of weed is no big deal. I'm 64 years old, but I favor legalization.

But ... a couple of points I'd want to check before dismissing this.

(1) I assume he was just transporting his drug purchase back to his apartment ... if he was driving under the influence, that would be a different story (the difference between having a six-pack of beers in the car and driving drunk. Even if the kid with the six-pack was underage, no big deal -- FWIW, I think the driving age should be 18). Again I'm assuming, but if he was actually smoking the stuff, I'm sure he would be charged with driving under the influence.

(2) I'm a bit confused about the driving without a license. Does he have a license and he just forgot to bring it? That's a minor fault (you are SUPPOSED to have it with you) that's usually erased when you show up in court and present your license. But what if he doesn't have a license? Period. That's more serious. The worst would be that he has a license and it has been suspended. THAT would be a serious crime. However, I assume that if that were the case, it would have been a different charge. Still, did he forget his license or did he not have one -- big difference.

(3) I would want to know who owns the car he was driving and who the license plate was registered to. The reason I ask if that one aspect of the UNC scandal that got swept under the rug were the players driving loaner cars from dealers with multiple license plates (in most cases provided by a Durham car dealer who was convicted of laundering drug money).

Good points...to address 1 and 2: I've been in a car with a few people and a girl was driving who didn't have her license on her, but legally owned one, and we ended up at a checkpoint. The officer looked up her information and just told her to carry it with her, and let us go. I've also had a friend of mine who came up to a checkpoint and legally didn't own a license, and the officer searched his car due to the fact he legally didn't own a license. Unlucky for him, he was carrying a substantial amount of weed.

My point is: if PJ was smoking in the car, officers would smell it and have probable cause to search. If he wasn't, driving without a license would give them a right to search. My thought is either he was DUI or driving without a license, just based on previous experience. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as this is just a few personal experiences.

[Turtleboy]

There are only a few stars the make something of their life after sports and I don't put PJ in that group.I don't suppose you have any support for that assertion do you, absent non standard definitions for "few", "stars" and "make something"?


Now had he gone to Duke and learned something, well...And folks wonder why Duke fans are called arrogant.

[BismarckDuke]

Because everyone who smoked pot in college ends up a bankrupt drug addict? Atlanta Duke

This was a reference to sports stars (athletes becoming millionaires), not general college students.

And folks wonder why Duke fans are called arrogant. Turtleboy

Sorry, maybe I should have started something on fire before I wrote that.

Geez, some people need to get some skin, those paper cuts sure do hurt.

[Dev11]

I think you should finish the story line...

An elite athlete and soon to be millionaire. And then will retire, become broke within 5 years because he spent all his money on drugs and becomes a bum.

There are only a few stars the make something of their life after sports and I don't put PJ in that group. Now had he gone to Duke and learned something, well...

Hey Bismarck, do us a favor, share with the board the lowest moment in your life and we will attempt to extrapolate how your life turned out.

[OldSchool]

“PJ, when Coach says you need to get higher, he means when you release your shot.”

“OK, let’s go over it one more time, PJ. You DON’T need a license to drive the lane, you DO need a license to drive on the street.”

“It’s wine and cheese, PJ, not blunts and Cheetos.”

“Coach, tell PJ not to Bogart the rock!”

“Don’t get so excited, PJ. We’re playing midnight madness, not reefer madness.”

“Hey Coach - when Marcus said he was gonna drop some dimes today, how come PJ pulls out a roll of bills?”

[MulletMan]

Boy, it's a good thing no players at Duke have ever smoked pot or had substance abuse problems.

[BismarckDuke]

Hey Bismarck, do us a favor, share with the board the lowest moment in your life and we will attempt to extrapolate how your life turned out.

Okay, been married 28+ years. Have two kids, 24 and 21, one grand child that will be 4 soon. I make 6 figures and my wife is close to that. I have had low times in my life but the good Lord has pulled me through.

Extrapolate all you want, I do this to pass my time.

I follow Duke because of Coach K!

[wilko]

Boy, it's a good thing no players at Duke have ever smoked pot or had substance abuse problems.

You cant be the leading scorer AND get caught. The weed is a non-starter IMHO - The crime is being silly enough to get popped. Ask JJ how that worked out?

[OldPhiKap]

I hate to say this for a Carolina guy, but -- nothing much to see here, keep moving along.

[ChemGod]

I hate to say this for a Carolina guy, but -- nothing much to see here, keep moving along.

Am I the only one to see the humor in this post???

[noworries]

Am I the only one to see the humor in this post???

Not at all:cool:

[OldPhiKap]

Am I the only one to see the humor in this post???


Not at all:cool:

Remind me to tell you about the first time I met Dan Meagher. ;-)

[weezie]

Bless His Heart!

While, of course, I hope his heart remains healthy, let's not get carried away here. A nitwit hole is a nitwit hole after all.

[-jk]

Remind me to tell you about the first time I met Dan Meagher. ;-)

See your Danny Meagher, and raise you a Kenny Dennard.

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

See your Danny Meagher, and raise you a Kenny Dennard.

-jk

Not sure i could call that, and not sure all applicable statutes of limitation have run for anything that would raise. Certainly would need to go outside of the Duke athlete set to continue.

Had a beer with Kenny at a tailgate a few years ago (thanks as always, DiBD) -- seemed like a good egg.

[-jk]

Not sure i could call that, and not sure all applicable statutes of limitation have run for anything that would raise. Certainly would need to go outside of the Duke athlete set to continue.

Had a beer with Kenny at a tailgate a few years ago (thanks as always, DiBD) -- seemed like a good egg.

Definitely a "good egg". Just not a choir-boy. Or anything close.

-jk

[BD80]

Not sure i could call that, and not sure all applicable statutes of limitation have run for anything that would raise. Certainly would need to go outside of the Duke athlete set to continue.

Had a beer with Kenny at a tailgate a few years ago (thanks as always, DiBD) -- seemed like a good egg.


Definitely a "good egg". Just not a choir-boy. Or anything close.

-jk

Too much personality to fit in his body ...

[throatybeard]

I, for one, am thrilled to learn how much money someone makes in a thread about high UNC athletes.

[Newton_14]

I, for one, am thrilled to learn how much money someone makes in a thread about high UNC athletes. And remember, he was sharing the "lowest moment of his life" with us to boot.:cool:

[snowdenscold]

I think you should finish the story line...

An elite athlete and soon to be millionaire. And then will retire, become broke within 5 years because he spent all his money on drugs and becomes a bum..


Because everyone who smoked pot in college ends up a bankrupt drug addict? Atlanta Duke

This was a reference to sports stars (athletes becoming millionaires), not general college students.


You're still attempting to pin smoking weed in college as a primary cause of the athletes' future bankruptcies, which I would contend is a minor or non-existent factor.

How many people on ESPN 30 for 30's Broke said, "If only I hadn't smoked weed in college, I wouldn't have ended up like this." ? I would wager almost all their lives would have turned out remarkably similar whether or not marijuana existed in the universe or not.
Weed didn't make them make stupid investments in restaurants, clubs, gaming companies, etc. Weed didn't make them have a huge cadre of hanger-on's who helped suck them dry (unless you want to argue they had more 'smoking buddies' than they otherwise would have). Weed didn't make them trust the wrong people who were in a position to scam them. Weed didn't make them purchase absurd amounts of depreciating assets. Weed didn't raise them with no knowledge or education in personal finance. And so on and so forth...

[taiw93]

I think some people are understating the significance of this incident ever so slightly. Does this arrest adversely affect my opinion of PJ Hairston as a person or athlete? Of course not. And of course as a Duke student myself, I am very aware that such an incident could have happened to any number of students and student-athletes at Duke, UNC, or anywhere else, and really is not a big deal at all in the scheme of things. However, it is certainly a minor black eye for the program, as college basketball players of Hairston's caliber are under a microscope and serve as major role models for kids (difficult and unfair as that may be for a 20-year-old kid). So as with any arrest, I do believe this will, and should, merit a suspension of a few games early in the season from Roy. And, most importantly, this should make for some great fun when the Tarheels visit Cameron. Hey PJ, why does Meeks have the munchies?

[Olympic Fan]

Just wanted to add something different to the discussion. I've heard non-UNC fans wonder if this incident will have any repercussions for Hairston next year. I would suggest that the evidence is strongly against any potential penalties -- assuming there is no more to this than has been reported.

Remember, in the spring of 2008, Ty Lawson was busted for DUI and underage drinking -- MUCH more serious crimes (especially the first one) than what Hairston has been accused of. Obviously, Lawson suffered no suspension and ended up leading UNC to the national title.

Now, Will Graves was kicked off the team and while no official reason has ever been given, the most likely explanation is multiple failed drug tests. Not sure of the UNC sliding scale of drug justice or where Hairston is on that scale, but I doubt he's close to Graves' territory.

I agree that some here are getting a little holier than thou about weed use by players, but to defend JJ, he was never cited for drug use -- he was simply present in a room where a GA smelled weed (and there were quite a few people in the room). Not saying he didn't do it -- and I'm sure quite a few Duke players did over the years (someday check the drop in Alan Shaw's performance between his junior and senior seasons ... that was during my time at Duke and I know several players who smoked) but the evidence against JJ is not very strong.

[jv001]

Definitely a "good egg". Just not a choir-boy. Or anything close.

-jk

Same could be said about our own Gene "tinker bell" Banks. He and Kenny were running mates on the court and off. Both great guys. GoDuke!

[MCFinARL]

Just wanted to add something different to the discussion. I've heard non-UNC fans wonder if this incident will have any repercussions for Hairston next year. I would suggest that the evidence is strongly against any potential penalties -- assuming there is no more to this than has been reported.

Remember, in the spring of 2008, Ty Lawson was busted for DUI and underage drinking -- MUCH more serious crimes (especially the first one) than what Hairston has been accused of. Obviously, Lawson suffered no suspension and ended up leading UNC to the national title.

Now, Will Graves was kicked off the team and while no official reason has ever been given, the most likely explanation is multiple failed drug tests. Not sure of the UNC sliding scale of drug justice or where Hairston is on that scale, but I doubt he's close to Graves' territory.

I agree that some here are getting a little holier than thou about weed use by players, but to defend JJ, he was never cited for drug use -- he was simply present in a room where a GA smelled weed (and there were quite a few people in the room). Not saying he didn't do it -- and I'm sure quite a few Duke players did over the years (someday check the drop in Alan Shaw's performance between his junior and senior seasons ... that was during my time at Duke and I know several players who smoked) but the evidence against JJ is not very strong.

To be fair to Ty Lawson, he was not busted for DUI but for driving after underage drinking. His breathalyzer was 0.03--well below the legal limit, and thus unlikely to impair his driving ability, but a violation anyway because he was underage. He was, however, driving on a suspended license, which is not good. http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3400138/

[Ichabod Drain]

Okay, been married 28+ years. Have two kids, 24 and 21, one grand child that will be 4 soon. I make 6 figures and my wife is close to that. I have had low times in my life but the good Lord has pulled me through.

Extrapolate all you want, I do this to pass my time.

I follow Duke because of Coach K!

I always feel slightly bad for people who when asked about their life, one of the first comments they make is in reference to their salary.

And you were asked to give the low point so your current life could be extrapolated upon, not the other way around. C'mon man, play the game right.

[devildeac]

Also gives a bit of a new meaning to:

G
T
H
C

:o:rolleyes:

(Apologies if someone beat me to it upthread. Didn't think I saw it but my proofreading and comprehension are a bit beyond their prime:o. )

[BismarckDuke]

I always feel slightly bad for people who when asked about their life, one of the first comments they make is in reference to their salary.

And you were asked to give the low point so your current life could be extrapolated upon, not the other way around. C'mon man, play the game right.

As I stated, "I have had low times in my life but the good Lord has pulled me through."

Those things that do not kill me make me stronger. What can I say, my glass is half full. I don't mean to be a debby downer, so if I was, sorry.

I have just seen so much of this. The average college kid can "play" with this stuff, no big deal. But it can lead to addiction and there is no good story in that. And for kids who are "athletes and going to make millions" things like drugs become a doom for them. I know many of athletes who made millions but are broke now because of things like this, and they made millions. A sad story. Plus, scouts are already talking about this being a possible issue when he comes up for the next draft, this was of no help to him. So give him a break if you want, no biggie to me, but it sounds like his future employers may not.

[OldPhiKap]

I expect a lock of this thread in 3, 2, 1 . . . .


Maybe we can revive the UNC Academic Fraud thread, though.

[Atlanta Duke]

Just wanted to add something different to the discussion. I've heard non-UNC fans wonder if this incident will have any repercussions for Hairston next year. I would suggest that the evidence is strongly against any potential penalties -- assuming there is no more to this than has been reported..

If the ACC is like the SEC and there are no conference rules on the consequences of being busted for pot it depends on what the policy at UNC is.

The University of Georgia football team has recurring incidents of players testing positive for THC - my favorite is the player who "accidentally" ate marijuana brownies on spring break and then failed his drug test http://onlineathens.com/sports/college-sports/2012-03-29/rambo-faces-suspension-result-mistakenly-eating-pot-brownie-high:)

Some contend the UGA policy on suspensions for failing a drug test places the school at a competitive disadvantage in the SEC since other schools such as LSU and Alabama have a more forgiving policy when it comes to the consequences of a player being caught for marijuana use.

Georgia's policy calls for a 10-percent of the season (one game in football) suspension for the first offense and a 30-percent of the season (four games in football) suspension for a second positive. At all but two other schools in the SEC (Kentucky and Mississippi State), a player who tests positive the first time does not miss a game.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/06/12/georgia-drug-policy/index.html

[rthomas]

There is this tweet:

#breakingnews Durham Police confirm gun was found on the ground outside P.J. Hairston's vehicle during arrest #ABC11 http://ow.ly/lOcpB

[blueduke59]

Wasn't he driving without a license? A rental car at that? How'd he rent the car? Was unaware rental companies rented cars to under 25 year olds without a driver's license. Now there's a gun involved. Yeah you guys are right. No big deal (not in CH at least). This doesn't even reach "you must write a book report from a book you can actually read and write it in your own words" levels. Nobody died for crying out loud. A few wind sprints and PJ's mind will be right.

[UrinalCake]

UNC has found its shooting guard!

[BD80]

You're still attempting to pin smoking weed in college as a primary cause of the athletes' future bankruptcies, which I would contend is a minor or non-existent factor.

How many people on ESPN 30 for 30's Broke said, "If only I hadn't smoked weed in college, I wouldn't have ended up like this." ? I would wager almost all their lives would have turned out remarkably similar whether or not marijuana existed in the universe or not.
Weed didn't make them make stupid investments in restaurants, clubs, gaming companies, etc. Weed didn't make them have a huge cadre of hanger-on's who helped suck them dry (unless you want to argue they had more 'smoking buddies' than they otherwise would have). Weed didn't make them trust the wrong people who were in a position to scam them. Weed didn't make them purchase absurd amounts of depreciating assets. Weed didn't raise them with no knowledge or education in personal finance. And so on and so forth...

Symptom, not the disease. If they had the good judgment to avoid the weed and the culture therewith, they would have been less likely to make the mistakes that cratered their lives.

Of course, some of us stumble across better judgment later in our life experience than others ....


Also gives a bit of a new meaning to:

G
T
H
C

:o:rolleyes:

Do I see a tar heel version of the "Got Milk" campaign? Grown locally! No preservatives, no insecticides! Comes from HAPPY farmers!

[killerleft]

Is The Special One as high on drugs as my new avatar suggests? Meh, I just wanted to see if Jose had translated to the real DBR world. Actually, he is reacting to a reporter's question: "Do you think, Jose, that Roy Williams is as good a coach as Coach K?"

I remember when PJ was made in the bathtub using Everclear and fruit in both natural and liquid form. I don't remember it very well, though. Evidently times don't change much. PJ is still gettin' people high, and there are always consequences.

[UrinalCake]

I am totally willing to let the investigation run its course, and I trust that Roy and UNC will handle things appropriately if he is found guilty of anything. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until any actual charges are reported. With that said, the thought of them playing next season without PJ does make me pretty giddy. In Cameron we would make 2010 feel like a Swedish massage.

[Duvall]

I am totally willing to let the investigation run its course, and I trust that Roy and UNC will handle things appropriately if he is found guilty of anything. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until any actual charges are reported.

I agree that Hairston should be given the benefit of the doubt and that the investigation should be allowed to run its course, but I think UNC athletics has lost the presumption that they will handle anything appropriately at this point.

[dpslaw]

It would be nice if the Durham PD would get around to releasing the arrest report. I guess they haven't finished cross-checking the fingerprints on the gun with the Duke lax team.

[BD80]

It would be nice if the Durham PD would get around to releasing the arrest report. I guess they haven't finished cross-checking the fingerprints on the gun with the Duke lax team.

I've heard that they are dusting local strippers for prints as well ...

[killerleft]

Evidently a firearm was also discovered outside the vehicle in which the three were riding. This according the The Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-06-07/pj-hairston-gun-found-outside-car-unc-basketball-marijuana-charge-tar-heels

Forensics are being performed on the gun, not sure if for a specific reason.

As is becoming standard procedure in Chapaheeya, Hairston's twitter account has been deleted.

[Ichabod Drain]

Link to the actual police report. It appears he had over 1.5 ounces of marijuana in the car if I am reading it correctly. Also the ages of the PJ and the passengers were 20, 20, and 23. No one old enough to rent a car.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22369506/police-found-gun-outside-of-pj-hairstons-vehicle

[moonpie23]

you can rent a car when you're under 25 now.......but not without a driver's license....


this is looking kinda bad.......uh....oops....oh it's the heels........no biggie.....nothing here...

[naclsean]

I rarely comment on this page. I'm a big Duke fan and check this page almost every day. I don't comment much because I've never been a student and I don't live in North Carolina. As a result this page keeps me in the loop. I take offense to the front pages comments that PJ Hairston only is doing what most of his peers already do. I understand the intent is for us not to judge him and I can appreciate that. But it is bull crap to say every college kid smokes pot. I know plenty who make wiser decisions and PJ is held to a higher standard as an athlete on an elite college basketball team.

[77devil]

See your Danny Meagher, and raise you a Kenny Dennard.

-jk

Let's just say that on his official visit, Kenny had a really good time.

And not to pile on the our friends down the road, but a State acquaintance just sent me this.

3413

[cbarry]

The story seemed fairly superficial at first, but with the discovery of a 9mm loaded gun, things become more interesting! Whose gun was it? Who rented the car, and why? Who PAID for the car rental? This could be the beginning of another UNC scandal, like the one that started with Marvin Austin partying in Miami!

[BismarckDuke]

I've heard that they are dusting local strippers for prints as well ...

Oh, that was bad...

But really, this all comes down to someone not really having smarts.
1. He lost his license. Where, how, whatever but he didn't have one. Doesn't sound like it is one of those things were he didn't have it on him, it is that he doesn't have one.
2. He rented a car and didn't have a license. Bad mistake to borrow someone's car if you don't have a license to drive.
3. He had some smack with him, driving a rented car without a license.

Okay, we are getting deep.

4. They had a gun in the car.

Not sure, but this is mistake after mistake, it just seems like the IQ isn't there.

5. He did something stupid to get pulled over. With no license, smack in the car and a gun too.

Something tells me these 5 mistakes are not the only mistakes made here. Yea, I can see where the millions he is going to make playing in the NBA will save him. You just can't out grow stupidity.

[moonpie23]

some speculation over on IC as to the person who's name is on the rental of the vehicle.....


this is getting more interesting by the minute...

[rsvman]

Oh, that was bad...

But really, this all comes down to someone not really having smarts.
1. He lost his license. Where, how, whatever but he didn't have one. Doesn't sound like it is one of those things were he didn't have it on him, it is that he doesn't have one.
2. He rented a car and didn't have a license. Bad mistake to borrow someone's car if you don't have a license to drive.
3. He had some smack with him, driving a rented car without a license.

Okay, we are getting deep.

4. They had a gun in the car.

Not sure, but this is mistake after mistake, it just seems like the IQ isn't there.

5. He did something stupid to get pulled over. With no license, smack in the car and a gun too.

Something tells me these 5 mistakes are not the only mistakes made here. Yea, I can see where the millions he is going to make playing in the NBA will save him. You just can't out grow stupidity.

Just a couple of clarifications.

He was charged with NOL. Meaning he doesn't have a license. Not the same thing as having been issued a license and then losing it or forgetting to take it with you. (Aside: How do you rent a car without a license?)

He didn't do anything stupid to get pulled over. He got pulled over at a checkpoint. Everybody got pulled over.


The way I see it, somebody rented the car. If that somebody was not PJ or one of his relatives, this could turn into an NCAA investigation as well. I'm not familiar with the gun laws in NC; as I understand it, the laws in Durham are actually different from the laws in Chapel Hill. So the gun charges are completely up in the air at this time. They will have to be able to prove that the gun came from the car that PJ was driving, in the first place. Conceivably, it could've been tossed on the ground by somebody in a different car and not found until PJ's rental car got there. Who knows?

Worst-case scenario for UNC would be a felony charge, which would probably mean PJ's dismissal from the team. Or, an NCAA violation if the car was rented for him by a booster or, worse, a former player or something. That could also result in dismissal.

Best-case scenario is that the 1.5 oz of pot are determined to be 0.5 oz per passenger (thus a misdemeanor), the NOL charge results in community service, the gun is not traced to PJ, and the car was rented in PJ's name with PJ's money. If all that happens, PJ might get a slap on the wrist and not much else.

[MCFinARL]

you can rent a car when you're under 25 now.......but not without a driver's license....


this is looking kinda bad.......uh....oops....oh it's the heels........no biggie.....nothing here...

True, although IIRC it usually costs more to rent a car if you are under 25. Has it been reported that the car was a rental? --Edited to note I see this has been reported.


I rarely comment on this page. I'm a big Duke fan and check this page almost every day. I don't comment much because I've never been a student and I don't live in North Carolina. As a result this page keeps me in the loop. I take offense to the front pages comments that PJ Hairston only is doing what most of his peers already do. I understand the intent is for us not to judge him and I can appreciate that. But it is bull crap to say every college kid smokes pot. I know plenty who make wiser decisions and PJ is held to a higher standard as an athlete on an elite college basketball team.

Pretty sure no one said every college kid smokes pot. But it is common behavior, not extreme or unusual. Obviously, the fact that a behavior is common does not make it okay. There are legitimate arguments to be made about whether athletes should be held to a higher standard, about whether it's ever wise behavior to use a substance that is illegal, and about whether marijuana use presents significant health risks. But even if you don't agree with the front page opinion that Hairston's possession of a small quantity of marijuana isn't a very big deal, I can't see why you would take offense at it--that reaction seems a bit over the top.

The police recovery of a gun outside the car, of course, presents different issues altogether. If the gun was, in fact, chucked by the people in the car before they got to the checkpoint it suggests, at the least, that PJ should, perhaps, have left some of his high school pals behind when he went to college.

[Olympic Fan]

Oh, that was bad...

But really, this all comes down to someone not really having smarts.
1. He lost his license. Where, how, whatever but he didn't have one. Doesn't sound like it is one of those things were he didn't have it on him, it is that he doesn't have one.
2. He rented a car and didn't have a license. Bad mistake to borrow someone's car if you don't have a license to drive.
3. He had some smack with him, driving a rented car without a license.

Okay, we are getting deep.

4. They had a gun in the car.

Not sure, but this is mistake after mistake, it just seems like the IQ isn't there.

5. He did something stupid to get pulled over. With no license, smack in the car and a gun too.

Something tells me these 5 mistakes are not the only mistakes made here. Yea, I can see where the millions he is going to make playing in the NBA will save him. You just can't out grow stupidity.

I believe he was caught at a checkpoint ... which means he didn't necessarily do anything stupid to get pulled over. You can argue that pulling up to a checkpoint in that situation was stupid, but police are usually very aware of people who avoid such checkpoints -- which would be even more stupid than going through one (after dumping the gun -- assuming it was from their car and not somebody else caught in the checkpoint).

Agree with everything else. The possible presence of a gun -- and the fact that he was driving a rental car -- suddenly make this MUCH more suspicious.

It will be very interesting to see who the car is registered to (best case, a close relative ... worst case, an agent or a UNC booster).

[77devil]

It will be very interesting to see who the car is registered to (best case, a close relative ... worst case, an agent or a UNC booster).

Or flip the worst/best cases depending on one's point of view.

[Bluedog]

I believe he was caught at a checkpoint ... which means he didn't necessarily do anything stupid to get pulled over. You can argue that pulling up to a checkpoint in that situation was stupid, but police are usually very aware of people who avoid such checkpoints -- which would be even more stupid than going through one (after dumping the gun -- assuming it was from their car and not somebody else caught in the checkpoint).

JJ tried to avoid a checkpoint and the cops followed him....yeah, you can't just avoid them; they come out of nowhere. I've lived in many major cities, and have only encountered them firsthand in Durham; never seen them anywhere else although perhaps it's common in some other cities.

[Kedsy]

According to Erin Summers's twitter, "Hairston was cited w/ having 9MM handgun, mag w/ 9 rounds of ammo, plastic baggies, 3 cigars & half an ounce of marijuana driving rented SUV. All were in the rented SUV Hairston was driving and are listed on his police report, his only charges were for marijuana and no license."

According to someone at IC, the "two people with PJ both basetball players from Durham: Miykael Faulcon who plays for Elizabeth City State and Carlos Sanford who plays for Union College."

There is conjecture about who rented the vehicle, but nothing substantive enough to quote.

And for the IC gem of the day: Will one of these other two bozos step up and take the rap? PJ will surely get you back if and when he makes it to the league.

Classic fan myopia. Gotta love it.

[millerecu]

That's an ounce and a half of pot. That is a pretty good amount of pot to be driving around with. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gun-found-police-unc-player-172402058--ncaab.html

[Here is a Turtle]

According to Erin Summers's twitter, "Hairston was cited w/ having 9MM handgun, mag w/ 9 rounds of ammo, plastic baggies, 3 cigars & half an ounce of marijuana driving rented SUV. All were in the rented SUV Hairston was driving and are listed on his police report, his only charges were for marijuana and no license."

According to someone at IC, the "two people with PJ both basetball players from Durham: Miykael Faulcon who plays for Elizabeth City State and Carlos Sanford who plays for Union College."

There is conjecture about who rented the vehicle, but nothing substantive enough to quote.

And for the IC gem of the day: Will one of these other two bozos step up and take the rap? PJ will surely get you back if and when he makes it to the league.

Classic fan myopia. Gotta love it.

Wow. This story gets worse and worse. The big question is when will we know about the vehicle now. Someone will definitely take the rap for PJ though.

[Kedsy]

That's an ounce and a half of pot. That is a pretty good amount of pot to be driving around with. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gun-found-police-unc-player-172402058--ncaab.html

Not clear whether that 1.5 oz is cumulative for the three guys or what. Early indications are PJ was charged with possessing half an ounce.

[MCFinARL]

According to Erin Summers's twitter, "Hairston was cited w/ having 9MM handgun, mag w/ 9 rounds of ammo, plastic baggies, 3 cigars & half an ounce of marijuana driving rented SUV. All were in the rented SUV Hairston was driving and are listed on his police report, his only charges were for marijuana and no license."

According to someone at IC, the "two people with PJ both basetball players from Durham: Miykael Faulcon who plays for Elizabeth City State and Carlos Sanford who plays for Union College."

There is conjecture about who rented the vehicle, but nothing substantive enough to quote.

And for the IC gem of the day: Will one of these other two bozos step up and take the rap? PJ will surely get you back if and when he makes it to the league.

Classic fan myopia. Gotta love it.

Yes, there were several posters making similar comments on IC yesterday--"what kind of friends are these that they wouldn't say the drugs were theirs," etc. Apparently P.J. Hairston, as a college star and potential NBA player, is somehow worth more than his friends and is entitled to expect them to sacrifice their own reputation/freedom/whatever for him, regardless of relative fault. Just another example of the fawning attitudes that encourage some star athletes to feel entitled and above the rules/law in the first place.

As I write this I realize an earlier post of mine, about how at the least Hairston might have some friends he should have left behind, might be interpreted in a similar way--that is not what I meant at all--only that, trying to interpret events in the most favorable possible way to Hairston, he might be hanging around with old pals who were carrying a gun or otherwise courting trouble.

[FerryFor50]

The picture linked with the AP article is perfect.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3urhu7/

[Newton_14]

According to Erin Summers's twitter, "Hairston was cited w/ having 9MM handgun, mag w/ 9 rounds of ammo, plastic baggies, 3 cigars & half an ounce of marijuana driving rented SUV. All were in the rented SUV Hairston was driving and are listed on his police report, his only charges were for marijuana and no license."

According to someone at IC, the "two people with PJ both basetball players from Durham: Miykael Faulcon who plays for Elizabeth City State and Carlos Sanford who plays for Union College."

There is conjecture about who rented the vehicle, but nothing substantive enough to quote.

And for the IC gem of the day: Will one of these other two bozos step up and take the rap? PJ will surely get you back if and when he makes it to the league.

Classic fan myopia. Gotta love it.

That is just classic unc fan thinking. Picture of an entire fanbase captured in one simple sentence.

The gun throws several new wrinkles into this. As does the SUV being a rental. Those two things make this a bit more problematic for Ol Roy and UNC. Likelihood is high is comes back unregistered to any of the 3 guys. Only one of them is old enough to legally own and possess a hand gun. Also the gun by itself in the vehicle (not concealed) or the pot by itself are not the problematic. Possessing both at the same time though raises the stakes law-wise. I would be interested to know why the gun part was a "cite" rather than a "charge" unless none of the officers actually saw them toss the gun out of the vehicle.

For those wondering, NC is an "Open Carry" state. A gun owner can legally have a handgun (loaded or unloaded) in his vehicle without a concealed carry permit, as long as the gun is clearly visible in the vehicle. I am not 100% sure on the law if the gun is not owned by one of the persons in the car. Plus this is different because of the fact the gun was tossed prior to the stop.

[Turtleboy]

I have just seen so much of this. The average college kid can "play" with this stuff, no big deal. But it can lead to addiction and there is no good story in that. And for kids who are "athletes and going to make millions" things like drugs become a doom for them. I know many of athletes who made millions but are broke now because of things like this, and they made millions. First you said that only a few managed to avoid these pitfalls, now you say that you know of many. Is this "many" the same number as "all but a few," and is there a chance in hell you can provide a cite for this? Other than your professed self knowledge, that is. A real, objective, peer reviewed study would be a great place to start, not just a link to a secondary source.

FYI, smack is not marijuana.

[BismarckDuke]

First you said that only a few managed to avoid these pitfalls, now you say that you know of many. Is this "many" the same number as "all but a few," and is there a chance in hell you can provide a cite for this? Other than your professed self knowledge, that is. A real, objective, peer reviewed study would be a great place to start, not just a link to a secondary source.

FYI, smack is not marijuana.

Okay, only a few have avoided it, which means many who have come to it. Same thing, so what is the point Turtleboy?

I'm no expert in drugs, so sorry if smack isn't pot but it still the same, he had drugs with him and did something stupid to draw attention to himself.

I think you are still upset that I think Dukies are smarter than UNC and Maryland students.

[Reilly]

... This could be the beginning of another UNC scandal, like the one that started with Marvin Austin ...

PJ was on his way to The Cheesecake Factory?

[Wander]

Given how often UNC players have missed shots against people from Durham over the past few years, that's probably the safest city to encounter a Carolina guard with a gun #7outof9

[PackMan97]

I'm no expert in drugs, so sorry if smack isn't pot but it still the same, he had drugs with him and did something stupid to draw attention to himself.

He was stopped at a checkpoint and asked for his license. He didn't have one...if you want to call that the "something stupid"...I guess it is.

So much of this story doesn't add up....

1. With no license and being under the age of 21, how could he rent the car?
2. The rental car is reported to be a 2013 Chevy Yukon (http://www.edmunds.com/gmc/yukon/2013/options.html?style=200427242) which stats in the $40k+ range and if an all-wheel drive model could be $60k+.
3. The gun, if traced back to the car will be presumed to be in possession of the driver if one of the other passengers doesn't claim it.
4. 1.52 oz of pot is enough for a felony charge.

I see no good explanation for these events. Most interested to know who rented teh care.

[BD80]

Couple of Qs:

Can PJ still get into the draft this year? Maybe as a "high" riser, or some other exception? Sounds like he is NBA ready: ridin' wit his posse, packin a 9 mil, few bags of weed for the trip ...

Are the Durham police as hospitable to unc students as chapel hill police are to Dukies?

Does PJ still have use of the car so he can get back to Derm and replentish his stash for the weekend?

[MCFinARL]

He was stopped at a checkpoint and asked for his license. He didn't have one...if you want to call that the "something stupid"...I guess it is.

So much of this story doesn't add up....

1. With no license and being under the age of 21, how could he rent the car?
2. The rental car is reported to be a 2013 Chevy Yukon (http://www.edmunds.com/gmc/yukon/2013/options.html?style=200427242) which stats in the $40k+ range and if an all-wheel drive model could be $60k+.
3. The gun, if traced back to the car will be presumed to be in possession of the driver if one of the other passengers doesn't claim it.
4. 1.52 oz of pot is enough for a felony charge.

I see no good explanation for these events. Most interested to know who rented teh care.

This is obviously relevant if we know that the car is leased. But a "rental agreement" could be for a short-term car rental for a day or two, which might be more like a hundred bucks--potentially well within the accumulated spending money of 3 college students.

[Duvall]

3. The gun, if traced back to the car will be presumed to be in possession of the driver if one of the other passengers doesn't claim it.

Is this true? That's a pretty big presumption. Do we have any NC criminal lawyers that can verify this?

[Newton_14]

Is this true? That's a pretty big presumption. Do we have any NC criminal lawyers that can verify this? Not a lawyer but almost positive that is correct in NC. Unless a passenger claims the gun (or the gun is registered to one of the passenger) the driver is accountable for the gun.

[BismarckDuke]

He was stopped at a checkpoint and asked for his license. He didn't have one...if you want to call that the "something stupid"...I guess it is.

I would. If I have had a couple of drinks, not drunk (that is according to me), and I see a cop ahead, I don't continue down that path. It might look suspicious if a block away a person turns off but if I don't have a drivers license or it I might have had too much, I'll take that chance.

Why would I drive straight into a check point if I know I don't have a drivers license?

[OldPhiKap]

"bloody nose
emp-ty po-ckets
a rented car,
a trunk full of guns . . . "

-- Drive-By Truckers

[DukeBlue666s]

^^ He was hoping the cop was a Carolina fan.

[OldPhiKap]

If the dude was stoned, I am not sure that a discussion of what a rational person would do is terribly relevant.

[devildeac]

Let's just say that on his official visit, Kenny had a really good time.

And not to pile on the our friends down the road, but a State acquaintance just sent me this.

3413

Someone needs to photoshop a hand gun into this picture, too.

[Atlanta Duke]

I would. If I have had a couple of drinks, not drunk (that is according to me), and I see a cop ahead, I don't continue down that path. It might look suspicious if a block away a person turns off but if I don't have a drivers license or it I might have had too much, I'll take that chance.

Why would I drive straight into a check point if I know I don't have a drivers license?

Assuming you are capable of rational thought at the time, because you are more likely to risk additional charges if you turn around once you see the cops at checkpoint and the cops see you?

[OldPhiKap]

Assuming you are capable of rational thought at the time, because you are more likely to risk additional charges if you turn around once you see the cops at checkpoint and the cops see you?

Correctamundo. Cops are trained to set up road blocks. They are professionals. They are looking for dodgers and are usually equipped to deal with them.

They are often set up in places where you cannot really get away.

[DukeBlueHeart4]

Is this true? That's a pretty big presumption. Do we have any NC criminal lawyers that can verify this?

I am not a lawyer either, but my little sister got into a situation a few years ago with a "friend" who had some illegal drugs in her car. Because they were not on his person, she was charged because she was the owner of the car. The charges stood until he took responsibility and told the police the drugs were his. I would assume the same principle applies.

[plimnko]

I am not a lawyer either, but my little sister got into a situation a few years ago with a "friend" who had some illegal drugs in her car. Because they were not on his person, she was charged because she was the owner of the car. The charges stood until he took responsibility and told the police the drugs were his. I would assume the same principle applies.

she was charged because she was the owner of the car....in that case, do you think they will charge someone in the ram's club??

[wilko]

NOBODY is probably secretly happier about this turn of events than Lance Thomas...
FINALLY folks are off his posterior..

[killerleft]

I would. If I have had a couple of drinks, not drunk (that is according to me), and I see a cop ahead, I don't continue down that path. It might look suspicious if a block away a person turns off but if I don't have a drivers license or it I might have had too much, I'll take that chance.

Why would I drive straight into a check point if I know I don't have a drivers license?

You evidently don't know about checkpoints. There are enough cops there to cover those folks naive enough to think they can turn around and avoid being checked. Evasive maneuvering just insures that the cops KNOW you have something to hide. But go ahead and try it if you're a bold and crafty fella.

[OldPhiKap]

I am not a lawyer either, but my little sister got into a situation a few years ago with a "friend" who had some illegal drugs in her car. Because they were not on his person, she was charged because she was the owner of the car. The charges stood until he took responsibility and told the police the drugs were his. I would assume the same principle applies.

It is a theory known as "constructive possession" -- not a NC lawyer though but that is a common law concept.

[OldPhiKap]

You evidently don't know about checkpoints. There are enough cops there to cover those folks naive enough to think they can turn around and avoid being checked. Evasive maneuvering just insures that the cops KNOW you have something to hide. But go ahead and try it if you're a bold and crafty fella.

Another neat trick: police will put out a sign that says "drug checkpoint ahead" or some such. There really is no check point, but a cop watching what people do after seeing the sign. Slow down or toss something out the window? Busted. Sometimes, they set the sign right before a highway exit in the middle of nowhere, and the checkpoint is actually at the bottom of the exit. The only folks who pull off are the ones trying to hide something.

As I said up thread, the modern day police force is well-trained and they are professionals. Good luck if you think you have a system to beat it. Better idea: designated driver, nothing stupid in the car.

[DukeBlueHeart4]

It is a theory known as "constructive possession" -- not a NC lawyer though but that is a common law concept.

I knew there was a term for it! I could not remember what it was called. Thanks for that.

[Reilly]

... Better idea: ... nothing stupid in the car.

Like peanut butter & pepper balls?

[UrinalCake]

she was charged because she was the owner of the car....in that case, do you think they will charge someone in the ram's club??

Yeah, you said she was the OWNER, but the original claim was that liability fell to the DRIVER. Big difference in the case of a rented vehicle. I think it's been established that PJ was the driver but not the owner.

[Fish80]

No way this blows over. You can't snort this away. We don't need no stinkin licenses. Check point? We got cash.

[PSurprise]

The ad on the right-hand side of my screen says "Check Your Arrest Record Now". Anyone else see this? I think it's because I've looked at this thread too much to check out all the latest gossip...Or has PJ been on here??

[blueduke59]

The gun found is supposedly "clean". They're probably going to walk

[Turtleboy]

Okay, only a few have avoided it, which means many who have come to it. Same thing, so what is the point Turtleboy? The point is we have nothing other than your say so to go on. The point is I have twice asked you to support your assertions with some kind of data and twice you have ducked the question. I don't know how much more simple I can make it when you refuse to give a simple direct answer to a simple direct question. Do you have any evidence to support your assertion? Is anything about that unclear? Until you link to some kind of statistical analysis that supports your assertion I will assume that you are simply blowing smoke.

[Merlindevildog91]

The ad on the right-hand side of my screen says "Check Your Arrest Record Now". Anyone else see this? I think it's because I've looked at this thread too much to check out all the latest gossip...Or has PJ been on here??

My ad was for car rentals for as little as $11/day. I bet I couldn't get a Yukon for that.

[tommy]

Evidently a firearm was also discovered outside the vehicle in which the three were riding. This according the The Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-06-07/pj-hairston-gun-found-outside-car-unc-basketball-marijuana-charge-tar-heels

Forensics are being performed on the gun, not sure if for a specific reason.



I assume for fingerprints. Three guys in the car, so prints would obviously help determine which possessed the gun. Keeping in mind of course, that CSI is not the way the real world works, and I can tell you from plenty of experience that it is more likely than not that no usable prints will be found on the gun. Not that it doesn't happen, but it's far from automatic that usable prints will be found on the gun no matter the circumstances of its possession. And even if there are no prints, that does not preclude investigators from determining who -- if any of them -- possessed the gun through other investigative techniques.

[gsurgeon]

Am I misunderstanding the front page headline commentary on pot? " it's just a plant". You plant it in the dirt? So it's no big deal? I don't follow. Cocaine - it's just a plant . Opium poppies - they are just plants . ?? Anthrax - it's lower than a plant. You plant it in a Petri dish. It is a big deal.

[OldPhiKap]

I assume for fingerprints. Three guys in the car, so prints would obviously help determine which possessed the gun. Keeping in mind of course, that CSI is not the way the real world works, and I can tell you from plenty of experience that it is more likely than not that no usable prints will be found on the gun. Not that it doesn't happen, but it's far from automatic that usable prints will be found on the gun no matter the circumstances of its possession. And even if there are no prints, that does not preclude investigators from determining who -- if any of them -- possessed the gun through other investigative techniques.

Agree with all of this.

It seems to me that establishing the gun and drug ownership will depend on (in roughly descending order):

1. Confession.
2. Location of item in relation to each of the three vehicle passengers
3. Prints
4. Absent all that, the rental company will no doubt assert that they inspected the vehicle before renting, so whomever rented the vehicle (not necessarily who was driving) is on the hook.
5. If the renter was someone other than one of the three passengers, the party in control of the vehicle is stuck holding the bag (as it were).

[OldPhiKap]

Am I misunderstanding the front page headline commentary on pot? " it's just a plant". You plant it in the dirt? So it's no big deal? I don't follow. Cocaine - it's just a plant . Opium poppies - they are just plants . ?? Anthrax - it's lower than a plant. You plant it in a Petri dish. It is a big deal.

I think it is an editorial position. Each of us can agree or disagree. But that discussion is probably PPB material that will get the thread locked so I would avoid the debate. fWIW from an old hand here.

[Merlindevildog91]

Possibly the investigators are looking for touch DNA, but that's pretty rare to find, too. And I don't know how much it costs to do, but in Virginia, the prosecutors have to write letters to the lab asking specifically for the test, and it takes the better part of forever.

[throatybeard]

They see me rollin
They hatin
They tryna catch me ridin Heely

[superdave]

They see me rollin
They hatin
They tryna catch me ridin Heely

They gonna see PJ rollin in the D-league next year!

[oldnavy]

The car is the key thing here. All the other stuff can be explained away as (it was not PJ's pot or gun, etc...) reasonable doubt stuff (I don't buy any of it, but the argument can be made). Who rented the car that PJ was driving? Like they say, follow the money.... this will be the NCAA's ticket to investigate if it is found to be a violation (booster, former player, etc).... then all kinds of bad things open up for UNC.

[OldPhiKap]

They see me rollin
They hatin
They tryna catch me ridin Heely

You gotta go to work?

[DukieInKansas]

The car is the key thing here. All the other stuff can be explained away as (it was not PJ's pot or gun, etc...) reasonable doubt stuff (I don't buy any of it, but the argument can be made). Who rented the car that PJ was driving? Like they say, follow the money.... this will be the NCAA's ticket to investigate if it is found to be a violation (booster, former player, etc).... then all kinds of bad things open up for UNC.

Were you indulging in one of the items PJ allegedly had in his possession? ;-) The NCAA hasn't shown any real interest in the shenanigans going on at unc so far. Why would this bring closer scrutiny?

[OldPhiKap]

Okay,a come back at me, I know you want to make me look bad because I am one of those arrogant Duke fan. The problem is, no matter what you say, it won't work, I take enjoyment out of this, it doesn't bother me one bit. LOL

Don't drags the rest of us into this. And, you are going to end up getting the thread locked I suspect if, instead of talking about PJ, you continue a policy debate.

Signed, your friendly neighborhood poster.

P.S. a gratuitous attack on UMd probably does not build your case. Just sayin'. There's an old legal maxim:

If the law is not on your side, argue the facts.
If the facts are not on your side, argue the law.
If neither the law or facts are on your side, attack your opponent.

Kinda sounds like what is going on here.

[Bob Green]

Let's keep it civil and on topic folks. Infractions have and will continue to be issued.

[plimnko]

Back on topic, how long do you think it will be before the police say whose car it is? This can't help with that academic scandal still hanging over the university's head.

to quote many of the carolina fans i know......"what academic scandal?".

[cbarry]

The presence of "baggies" found in the car makes me think these guys are DEALING the stuff, not "just" buyers and users. That, along with the gun and rental vehicle are some big question marks in this case!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I've done a bit of a search including NCDOJ site and there does not seem to be any law in NC or really any other state that requires a minimum age of 25 to rent a car. What the laws do appear to allow for are discretion by each rental car agency and branch to set their own rules and to apply surcharges on rentals where the driver is under 25. In practice it appears many will rent to 21-24 yr olds with significant added charges. But it appears very unlikely that any major agency would rent to an 18-21 year, period. Although there are apparently laws in NY and MI that mandate rentals be allowed to 18-21 yr olds. So it would seem that in practice, renting to a 20 yr old is unlikely to happen in the normal course of business here in NC unless perhaps a smaller lesser known agency rented them the car. Or it was in someone else's name who is older than 20. Or the gents flew up to NY and drove back down!

[OldPhiKap]

I read that they found the gun outside the car, and one of the two bags of pot outside the car. I am assuming someone tossed them out the window (allegedly)? If so, they may have video of who tossed 'em. Probably not the driver.

As to who rented the car -- it would probably come out at an indictment hearing if it got that far, but I doubt it will.

[Henderson]

Worst case for MJ Hairston: He's charged with possession of less than an ounce of marijuana, driving without a license, and unlawful possession of a handgun. He pleads guilty to three misdemeanors, issues an apology statement written by the AD's office, gets probation and is suspended for a couple exhibition games and maybe a patsy game or two.

BUT, the Yukon rental thing... That's the interesting part. If (a big if) it turns out that MJ Hairston received an unauthorized benefit or there is an investigation to that effect pending next season, Dad Gum may be forced to play without him or risk having the entire season's wins wiped away for having played with an ineligible player.

When Wiggins chose Kansas, there were lots of sour grapes posts on IC to the effect that kerlina was better off, because MJ Hairston deserved to start. Uh huh...

By the way, those Star 9mm pistols are nice guns. All steel and very heavy. Spanish made. Lots of smooth surfaces from which to lift prints. Shame it's going to get beat to crap in an evidence locker. And the magazine was loaded. 9mm cartridges are very smooth metal, the kind that takes a print really well. And the easiest way to load the magazine is by pressing each cartridge in with the pad of your thumb -- right where a good print would come from. A guy could do a quick wipe of the gun before dropping it, but it's harder to do that with the cartridges in the magazine.

Did someone say the gun came back clean? What's the source for that?

[Indoor66]

I have rented many cars in many states. I have always had to produce my VALID drivers license and a credit card. Always - no exception. There can be no question as to who the auto was rented to. The rental company has a record - along with a list of all authorized drivers for that rental. Heck, you usually have to indicate whether you will take the vehicle out of state. Rental companies want real and accurate information before they turn over $40,000 worth of inventory over to someone off the street. The police already have all this information - it would only require their inquiry to the rental company. I seriously doubt there is any unresolved information on that issue - unless the rental was made to one other than the driver (P.J.) and he is not listed on the rental agreement. That is where there would be need for further investigation. Also, on the age issue, in my experience, you only had to be an adult, a licensed driver and have a credit card with adequate limits available to rent a car.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Another neat trick: police will put out a sign that says "drug checkpoint ahead" or some such. There really is no check point, but a cop watching what people do after seeing the sign. Slow down or toss something out the window? Busted. Sometimes, they set the sign right before a highway exit in the middle of nowhere, and the checkpoint is actually at the bottom of the exit. The only folks who pull off are the ones trying to hide something.

As I said up thread, the modern day police force is well-trained and they are professionals. Good luck if you think you have a system to beat it. Better idea: designated driver, nothing stupid in the car.
After college I went on tour following the Dead around, and remember rolling into Chapel Hill and seeing a huge sign on the highway "Drug Checkpoint Ahead". I wondered how many people were stupid enough to take the very next exit.

[OldPhiKap]

I have rented many cars in many states. I have always had to produce my VALID drivers license and a credit card. Always - no exception. There can be no question as to who the auto was rented to. The rental company has a record - along with a list of all authorized drivers for that rental. Heck, you usually have to indicate whether you will take the vehicle out of state. Rental companies want real and accurate information before they turn over $40,000 worth of inventory over to someone off the street. The police already have all this information - it would only require their inquiry to the rental company. I seriously doubt there is any unresolved information on that issue - unless the rental was made to one other than the driver (P.J.) and he is not listed on the rental agreement. That is where there would be need for further investigation. Also, on the age issue, in my experience, you only had to be an adult, a licensed driver and have a credit card with adequate limits available to rent a car.

Agree with all of this.

Are we sure it was a rental car, as opposed to a leased car? Rentals are usually short term, not sure why a bunch of local kids would (legitimately) have a rental. Leased, on the other hand, could make more sense.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Agree with all of this.

Are we sure it was a rental car, as opposed to a leased car? Rentals are usually short term, not sure why a bunch of local kids would (legitimately) have a rental. Leased, on the other hand, could make more sense.
Maybe someone rented the car for them for a few weeks or for the summer. Wouldn't be cheap. But, well...

[MCFinARL]

Agree with all of this.

Are we sure it was a rental car, as opposed to a leased car? Rentals are usually short term, not sure why a bunch of local kids would (legitimately) have a rental. Leased, on the other hand, could make more sense.

Police report said "rental agreement," but of course it could have been a lease agreement. If it was a long term lease, that potentially raises more questions, unless the car was leased by 1) one of the people in the car or 2) a relative of one of the people in the car.

[arnie]

The presence of "baggies" found in the car makes me think these guys are DEALING the stuff, not "just" buyers and users. That, along with the gun and rental vehicle are some big question marks in this case!

Your view is very believable. Despite the assertion by DBR that we're only talking about plants, these actions are not frivolous (read the articles re: Philly demo operator and his active plant use). Believe Roy and UNC will try the coverup but without Nifong, I'm not sure they pull it off. Also, PackPride has our interests at heart.

[BD80]

Aside from the minimum age for a rental car, is there a minimum age for registering a gun?

Everything else I can look past as immature poor judgment, relatively harmless. But the loaded gun ratchets it way up on the stupid and dangerous scale for me.

If it is PJ's gun: way stupid and lose scholarship.
If it was someone else's gun and PJ knew he had it before entering the car and their destination was a drug transaction: seee ya!
If PJ didn't know about the gun, still really poor judgment in choice of posse and transactions, should be suspended.

The front page raises the "precedent" of JamesOn Curry; if I recall, Curry had slipped in the rankings before the drug issue. It will be fun to watch what ol' roy does with this issue. I don't expect to see much spine.

[Indoor66]

Agree with all of this.

Are we sure it was a rental car, as opposed to a leased car? Rentals are usually short term, not sure why a bunch of local kids would (legitimately) have a rental. Leased, on the other hand, could make more sense.

When I leased cars - for a term of years - I also had to produce the same Drivers License plus had to qualify and be credit worthy.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

When I leased cars - for a term of years - I also had to produce the same Drivers License plus had to qualify and be credit worthy.

The one agreeing to lease the vehicle from someone else also has to provide auto insurance in order to lease.

[OldPhiKap]

When I leased cars - for a term of years - I also had to produce the same Drivers License plus had to qualify and be credit worthy.

Agreed. My thinking was that I can see PJ's mom leasing a nice car, because it is cheaper than buying and PJ will be flush in cash soon. By contrast, I cannot think of any reason that a local kid would have a rental. Makes no economic sense.

A lease may or may not be problematic. Hard to see how a rental is not suspicious of something.

[Newton_14]

Aside from the minimum age for a rental car, is there a minimum age for registering a gun?

.

You have to be 21 in NC to legally purchase/own/register a handgun.

[Bob Green]

That 9MM is a very dumb purchase. It is equal to a BB gun. Not liked by many who shoot. Especially police, military and so on.

What? The primary handgun used by the military is the 9MM.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyweapons/l/aainfantry2.htm


The adoption of the M-9 pistol was the result of a congressional mandate to equip all U.S. services with a standard handgun.

Type: Semiautomatic pistol
Entered Army service: 1990
Specifications:
Caliber: 9mm
Length: 217mm
Barrel length: 125mm
Weight: 850 g
Magazine capacity: 15 rounds
Range: 50 m

[BD80]

You have to be 21 in NC to legally purchase/own/register a handgun.

One of the passengers, Carlos, is 23; it could be registered to him.

[Olympic Fan]

Please don't take this for more than it is -- but considering how sharp the people at the NC State message board have been in ferreting out UNC violations in the past (more effective than the school's self-examinations), I thought I'd pass this on. A poster at Packpride has found that the address that Hairston gave the police links to a home owned by a Greensboro "business manager" named Alex Kellner.

Now, it's possible that the Hairston's live in a house leased from Mr. Kellner. However, the Packpride poster notes that Kellner owns two homes in Greensboro -- and his tax bills are mailed to him at the address Hairston listed -- that would seem to be Kellner's residence.

Is Kellner a UNC booster? A prospective agent? Or just an innocent landlord? It would be interesting to know if his name were on the auto rental agreement.

Again, this is just a message board post so take it for what it is. And even if absolutely accurate, it's not proof of anything. But it does add another layer of suspicion.

[El_Diablo]

Worst case for MJ Hairston: He's charged with possession of less than an ounce of marijuana, driving without a license, and unlawful possession of a handgun. He pleads guilty to three misdemeanors, issues an apology statement written by the AD's office, gets probation and is suspended for a couple exhibition games and maybe a patsy game or two.

In NC, possession of a Schedule VI controlled substance (marijuana) with the intent to sell or deliver is a Class I felony. Delivery can apply to any amount of 5 grams or more, and apparently there were 43.2 grams recovered at the scene, in addition to baggies. So it could easily get worse, depending on the evidence and how much the DA wants to run with it.

[Bob Green]

One of the passengers, Carlos, is 23; it could be registered to him.

The question that pops to the front of my mind is: if it was registered to him, why would he toss it out the window? My suspicion is the gun was not registered to anyone.

[ncexnyc]

What? The primary handgun used by the military is the 9MM.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyweapons/l/aainfantry2.htm
I seem to recall we switched handguns in order to get in line with our NATO allies so that we would have a standard round. I know they've made attempts to come up with a new rifle to replace the M-16 as well, but to date the M-4 is the only thing I know of and that's basically a modified M-16 and still uses the 5.56mm round, not the 7.62mm that most NATO rifles use or the old M-14 that so many old timers love for it's range and stopping power.

[MCFinARL]

The presence of "baggies" found in the car makes me think these guys are DEALING the stuff, not "just" buyers and users. That, along with the gun and rental vehicle are some big question marks in this case!

Certainly possible, but I'm not sure I'd jump to that conclusion yet. The police report lists two fairly small quantities of "marijuana in plastic bag" and one additional plastic baggie in the evidence inventory. Given that there were three people in the car, it's entirely possible the purpose of the extra bag was just to split what they had three ways, not to sell to anyone else. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22369506/report-gun-found-outside-of-pj-hairstons-vehicle (link to police report at the bottom of the article)

[Indoor66]

Certainly possible, but I'm not sure I'd jump to that conclusion yet. The police report lists two fairly small quantities of "marijuana in plastic bag" and one additional plastic baggie in the evidence inventory. Given that there were three people in the car, it's entirely possible the purpose of the extra bag was just to split what they had three ways, not to sell to anyone else. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22369506/report-gun-found-outside-of-pj-hairstons-vehicle (link to police report at the bottom of the article)

I think you just made the defense argument. The prosecution sees 1.5 oz and baggies and the purpose is for sale.

[devildeac]

Wonder if ol roy has reached this stage yet:

3415

[Duvall]

Back on topic, how long do you think it will be before the police say whose car it is? This can't help with that academic scandal still hanging over the university's head.

to quote many of the carolina fans i know......"what academic scandal?".


I think you just made the defense argument. The prosecution sees 1.5 oz and baggies and the purpose is for sale.

Unless the prosecution chooses not to see it that way.

[OldPhiKap]

The link above has the first page of the report, would love to see the rest.

Fwiw it shows only one baggie.

[JWA71]

http://triangle.johnlocke.org/blog/?p=17768


P.J. Hairston’s Durham visit
Posted June 8th, 2013 at 11:55 AM by Jon Ham




Anyone who has been a regular reader of the Durham police log in The Herald-Sun raised their eyebrows the other day when they finally learned where in Durham UNC basketball player P.J. Hairston was arrested for marijuana possession and driving without a license: 1499 Holloway Street.

You see, Holloway Street, Driver Street, and Liberty Street show up almost daily in the police log. If you’re in Durham to enjoy Durham’s downtown renaissance, you’re not going to find it there. This area is ground zero for prostitution, drug deals, and random shootings.

...

[hudlow]

Wonder if ol roy has reached this stage yet:

3415

Probably not until it's him that starts seeing the underside of the bus...

hud

[Henderson]

The question that pops to the front of my mind is: if it was registered to him, why would he toss it out the window? My suspicion is the gun was not registered to anyone.

I don't know about NC, but in most states a gun doesn't have to be "registered" at all. But I share Bob's suspicion: What reason would there be for him to dump the gun? He could just say, "Yeah, that's mine, and it's not concealed." OTOH, if the young man who owned/possessed it had a felony conviction, that would be reason to dump it, because felons are prohibited from possessing firearms. Felon-in-possession is another felony, and it usually means jail time. Or he may have just been young, stoned, and jumpy. Or maybe he didn't know whether it was stolen or not. Lots of missing information here.

Two bags of weed with a total of 1.5 oz. in them, plus some baggies in the car is a really weak "intent to distribute" case. DAs like to use that stuff as leverage, but without a scale or a larger amount, a distribution case would never go to trial unless there were other charges to go to trial on.

[devildeac]

He could always claim the marijuana belonged to his dog like this guy did:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/06/07/chris-perez-cleveland-indians-marijuana-possession/2400083/

"Cleveland Indians two-time All-Star closer Chris Perez, charged with misdemeanor possession after marijuana was mailed to his home in his dog's name..."

[BD80]

The question that pops to the front of my mind is: if it was registered to him, why would he toss it out the window? My suspicion is the gun was not registered to anyone.

What could possibly go wrong throwing a loaded gun out of a window?

[hudlow]

I don't know about NC, but in most states a gun doesn't have to be "registered" at all. But I share Bob's suspicion: What reason would there be for him to dump the gun? He could just say, "Yeah, that's mine, and it's not concealed." OTOH, if the young man who owned/possessed it had a felony conviction, that would be reason to dump it, because felons are prohibited from possessing firearms. Felon-in-possession is another felony, and it usually means jail time. Or he may have just been young, stoned, and jumpy. Or maybe he didn't know whether it was stolen or not. Lots of missing information here.

Two bags of weed with a total of 1.5 oz. in them, plus some baggies in the car is a really weak "intent to distribute" case. DAs like to use that stuff as leverage, but without a scale or a larger amount, a distribution case would never go to trial unless there were other charges to go to trial on.

There's a paper trail on that handgun. When it was initially purchased there was a record of who bought it, because there was a background check. It could have changed hands several times unrecorded since then. Each transfer should have required a permit to buy issued by the local sheriff or the buyer should have had a Concealed Handgun Permit if the transfer took place in NC. Stolen firearms' serial numbers, if reported, are kept in a national database, virtually forever. Illegal transfer of a firearm makes the ATF itchy...

[ncexnyc]

I’m here at work and suffering through an extremely slow day. Thank god for IC and Pack Pride. I’ve never bothered to read Pack Pride before, but these folks really do have a massive inferiority complex when it comes to UNC. I have to admit that there is some seriously funny stuff over there and there are some extremely determined individuals who will go to any length in order to nail the heels.

It’s really amazing what one can pull up on the internet if one knows where to look. Running VIN’s through Carfax. Pulling county tax records to see who owns what property. These people really have it bad for anything the wrong shade of blue.

Now the IC crew has really surprised me. There are several who want to hide their head in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong, but I was shocked at how many are calling for PJ’s immediate ouster from the team. Nnot sure if they really do believe in , “The Carolina Way” or they figure if PJ is no longer a member of the squad the NCAA can’t make him testify.
Anyway this has been a fun few days jabbing the proverbial stick in the eyes of my tar heel fan co-workers.

P.S. What’s really amazing is how all three fan bases realize that the area where PJ and company were busted is a terrible place to be.

[Reilly]

Butch Davis wants you to know he had nothing to do with the PJ Hairston situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhUQMZo5h-I

[oldnavy]

Were you indulging in one of the items PJ allegedly had in his possession? ;-) The NCAA hasn't shown any real interest in the shenanigans going on at unc so far. Why would this bring closer scrutiny?

You're right, not sure what got into me... of course this is going to fade away like the rest of the mess over there.... I just thought that with the NCAA's phobia of athletes acutally benefiting materially from their status might pique their interest.... guns, drugs, non-classes are no big deal, but heaven forbid a kid get a buck or two from a booster! Throw the book at them!

[devildeac]

PackPride is pretty entertaining, folks:

"Hairston nails a 3

Drugs
Gun
No license traffic violation

The rental car comes back dirty we've got a 4 point play!"

[devildeac]

PackPride is pretty entertaining, folks:

"Hairston nails a 3

Drugs
Gun
No license traffic violation

The rental car comes back dirty we've got a 4 point play!"

Another gem:

"NCAA is serious about speeding up their investigations...Hariston arrested a few days ago, and Mississippi State was put on probation for 2 years today..."

Yep, it's a slow night in the devildeac abode:o.

[tommy]

I read that they found the gun outside the car, and one of the two bags of pot outside the car. I am assuming someone tossed them out the window (allegedly)? If so, they may have video of who tossed 'em. Probably not the driver.


OPK, why would the fact of someone tossing the gun out of the car make it more likely there would be video of it?

[MCFinARL]

The link above has the first page of the report, would love to see the rest.

Fwiw it shows only one baggie.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/146330712/PJ-Hairston-Police-Report

I think this link will take you to the whole report. If not, click "download" under the page on the original link and you should be able to get a pdf of the whole report.

[OldPhiKap]

I don't know about NC, but in most states a gun doesn't have to be "registered" at all. But I share Bob's suspicion: What reason would there be for him to dump the gun? He could just say, "Yeah, that's mine, and it's not concealed." OTOH, if the young man who owned/possessed it had a felony conviction, that would be reason to dump it, because felons are prohibited from possessing firearms. Felon-in-possession is another felony, and it usually means jail time. Or he may have just been young, stoned, and jumpy. Or maybe he didn't know whether it was stolen or not. Lots of missing information here.

Two bags of weed with a total of 1.5 oz. in them, plus some baggies in the car is a really weak "intent to distribute" case. DAs like to use that stuff as leverage, but without a scale or a larger amount, a distribution case would never go to trial unless there were other charges to go to trial on.

Felon in possession of a firearm is a Federal offense. Real deal steel. I have represented a few of these, the Feds love to prosecute because it is fish in a barrel. You got a gun and a record? Case made.

[OldPhiKap]

OPK, why would the fact of someone tossing the gun out of the car make it more likely there would be video of it?

Tommy, I am figuring that if it was a set roadblock there may be a dashboard cam in one or more of the cruisers. Just a guess. But if this roadblock was set up as a drug checkpoint (er, I mean random license/insurance check which requires no probable cause, and just as easily could have been in the richest part of town) they may have planned for such surveillance.

Maybe. Maybe not.

[OldPhiKap]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/146330712/PJ-Hairston-Police-Report

I think this link will take you to the whole report. If not, click "download" under the page on the original link and you should be able to get a pdf of the whole report.

Thanks. My non-expert points from it:

1. One bag with 41 oz, one with 2. One additional Baggie. Guess: just scored, one had the rest of a personal stash. Not sure if extra Baggie was clean or had residue, but probably got it so they could split it and not sell.

2. Three cigars = 3 blunts. Ready to party, maybe planned ahead before the buy.

3. Gun with serial number -- ATF will be notified and perhaps involved. Anyone know anything about the AUSA in the district?

4. Rental agreement was taken in evidence, not just left in the glove compartment with other paperwork. This ain't over.

I do not do a lot of criminal law, but have both prosecuted and defended cases periodically for a few decades now. So take all of this with whatever sized grain of salt is appropriate. None of this guesswork is as good as a full investigation by the professionals, and with a gun involved this may not be a matter of some local DA deciding to shuffle this to a first offender keep it quiet diversion program.

I can tell you exactly what PJ's lawyers are telling him right now:

1. If you give up your source, things will go easier for you. (True)

2. First to squeal gets the deal. (Also true)

[Atlanta Duke]

Felon in possession of a firearm is a Federal offense. Real deal steel. I have represented a few of these, the Feds love to prosecute because it is fish in a barrel. You got a gun and a record? Case made.

This all went down in Durham, which is in the federal judicial district for the Middle District of North Carolina. U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina is:

Ripley Rand ... Rand is a graduate of the University of North Carolina and an honors graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ncm/meetattorney.html

Just sayin';)

[Reilly]

This all went down in Durham, which is in the federal judicial district for the Middle District of North Carolina. U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina is:

Ripley Rand ... Rand is a graduate of the University of North Carolina and an honors graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ncm/meetattorney.html

Just sayin';)

http://www.justice.gov/usao/biographies/rand.html

Ripley Rand has served as the United States Attorney for the 24 counties in the Middle District of North Carolina since January 1, 2011.
After completing state and federal judicial clerkships, Rand served as an Assistant District Attorney in Wake County, North Carolina, where he directed the office’s Domestic Violence Unit and served as a member of the office’s Dangerous Offenders Task Force. Prior to taking office as the United States Attorney, Rand served for more than eight years as a North Carolina Superior Court Judge, dealing with civil and criminal cases in over half the state’s counties.
Rand is a graduate of the University of North Carolina and an honors graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law. He is married with two children and is also the co-author of the children’s book, I Want to Go to UNC!
The United States Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of North Carolina was established in 1927 and has a staff of more than fifty lawyers and administrative and support personnel in its offices in Greensboro and Winston-Salem.

[OldPhiKap]

This all went down in Durham, which is in the federal judicial district for the Middle District of North Carolina. U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina is:

Ripley Rand ... Rand is a graduate of the University of North Carolina and an honors graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ncm/meetattorney.html

Just sayin';)


http://www.justice.gov/usao/biographies/rand.html

Ripley Rand has served as the United States Attorney for the 24 counties in the Middle District of North Carolina since January 1, 2011.
After completing state and federal judicial clerkships, Rand served as an Assistant District Attorney in Wake County, North Carolina, where he directed the office’s Domestic Violence Unit and served as a member of the office’s Dangerous Offenders Task Force. Prior to taking office as the United States Attorney, Rand served for more than eight years as a North Carolina Superior Court Judge, dealing with civil and criminal cases in over half the state’s counties.
Rand is a graduate of the University of North Carolina and an honors graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law. He is married with two children and is also the co-author of the children’s book, I Want to Go to UNC!
The United States Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of North Carolina was established in 1927 and has a staff of more than fifty lawyers and administrative and support personnel in its offices in Greensboro and Winston-Salem.

Well, turd on a stick.

I guess I am back to my first post on this thread -- not much to see here, folks, just keep moving along . . . .

Although it sounds like the AUSA may be contributing to the delinquency of minors if he wrote a kid's book encouraging them to grow up and go to the dump on the hump.

[norduck]

In an unrelated arrest, he has a court date pending in Durham County on 8-2-13 for speeding. What vehicle was he driving then and why was he not ticketed for NOL then? http://www1.aoc.state.nc.us/www/calendars.Criminal.do?county=310&court=CR+&defendant=hairston%2Cs&start=0&navindex=0&submit=Submit+Query

[Reilly]

... the []USA may be contributing to the delinquency of minors if he wrote a kid's book encouraging them to grow up and go to the dump on the hump.

Ooooh, I didn't understand it to mean that. I thought when it said "children's book" it meant literally that, and for use in the present: I am a child and I want to go to UNC. Find Africa on a map. Get grades for playing. Learn about self-esteem and how proud I am of myself. Things of that nature ...

[devildeac]

This all went down in Durham, which is in the federal judicial district for the Middle District of North Carolina. U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina is:

Ripley Rand ... Rand is a graduate of the University of North Carolina and an honors graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ncm/meetattorney.html

Just sayin';)


http://www.justice.gov/usao/biographies/rand.html

Ripley Rand has served as the United States Attorney for the 24 counties in the Middle District of North Carolina since January 1, 2011.
After completing state and federal judicial clerkships, Rand served as an Assistant District Attorney in Wake County, North Carolina, where he directed the office’s Domestic Violence Unit and served as a member of the office’s Dangerous Offenders Task Force. Prior to taking office as the United States Attorney, Rand served for more than eight years as a North Carolina Superior Court Judge, dealing with civil and criminal cases in over half the state’s counties.
Rand is a graduate of the University of North Carolina and an honors graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law. He is married with two children and is also the co-author of the children’s book, I Want to Go to UNC!
The United States Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of North Carolina was established in 1927 and has a staff of more than fifty lawyers and administrative and support personnel in its offices in Greensboro and Winston-Salem.


Well, turd on a stick.

I guess I am back to my first post on this thread -- not much to see here, folks, just keep moving along . . . .

Although it sounds like the AUSA may be contributing to the delinquency of minors if he wrote a kid's book encouraging them to grow up and go to the dump on the hump.

On a related note, I also found this "classic" on PackPride today (I warned you I had too much time on my hands today:o.):

Judge: "How does the defendant plead?"
PJ: "I'm a unc basketball player."
Judge: "Not guilty."

[tommy]

Thanks. My non-expert points from it:

1. One bag with 41 oz, one with 2. One additional Baggie. Guess: just scored, one had the rest of a personal stash. Not sure if extra Baggie was clean or had residue, but probably got it so they could split it and not sell.

2. Three cigars = 3 blunts. Ready to party, maybe planned ahead before the buy.

3. Gun with serial number -- ATF will be notified and perhaps involved. Anyone know anything about the AUSA in the district?

4. Rental agreement was taken in evidence, not just left in the glove compartment with other paperwork. This ain't over.

I do not do a lot of criminal law, but have both prosecuted and defended cases periodically for a few decades now. So take all of this with whatever sized grain of salt is appropriate. None of this guesswork is as good as a full investigation by the professionals, and with a gun involved this may not be a matter of some local DA deciding to shuffle this to a first offender keep it quiet diversion program.

I can tell you exactly what PJ's lawyers are telling him right now:

1. If you give up your source, things will go easier for you. (True)

2. First to squeal gets the deal. (Also true)

Agree with all of that.

But this seems like a very routine, very small-time case of possession of MJ and a gun. Classic case for local prosecution, meaning the county D.A. Unless he's seeking publicity, or there are other facts of which we're not aware, this is way too small time a case for the federal prosecutor to be involved in.

[roywhite]

Agree with all of that.

But this seems like a very routine, very small-time case of possession of MJ and a gun. Classic case for local prosecution, meaning the county D.A. Unless he's seeking publicity, or there are other facts of which we're not aware, this is way too small time a case for the federal prosecutor to be involved in.

Where's Mike Nifong when UNC needs him?

[OldPhiKap]

Agree with all of that.

But this seems like a very routine, very small-time case of possession of MJ and a gun. Classic case for local prosecution, meaning the county D.A. Unless he's seeking publicity, or there are other facts of which we're not aware, this is way too small time a case for the federal prosecutor to be involved in.

Absent a felon in possession, or something strange when tracing the gun, I agree this is something small.

Of course, if he rolls on someone, he may have to testify down the line. Doubtful, but that would be true whether state or fed.

[hudlow]

Absent a felon in possession, or something strange when tracing the gun, I agree this is something small.

Of course, if he rolls on someone, he may have to testify down the line. Doubtful, but that would be true whether state or fed.

If he was an unknown two bit street thug...I'd agree it was something small...But Carolina shouldn't be giving scholarships to two bit street thugs.

[tommy]

Absent a felon in possession, or something strange when tracing the gun, I agree this is something small.

Of course, if he rolls on someone, he may have to testify down the line. Doubtful, but that would be true whether state or fed.

Yeah. And even felon in possession of a firearm, at least here in California, is a crime routinely prosecuted by the DA's Office. Dozens of them filed every day. Yes, it's a felony, but still the feds only intervene when we're talking much larger scale firearm-type cases usually involving large numbers of guns, interstate transportation, gun running, major gang involvement, prison gangs, that kind of thing. This Hairston thing is penny ante stuff, or at least it would be if it occurred out here. Not sure if it's the same deal in NC, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

[Henderson]

This whole thing has Allen Iverson written all over it.

The former college player. Who got a sweet high end vehicle from a local dealer while a Georgetown "student" in violation of NCAA rules. Then a ride to the NBA. Then a posse and a lot of expenses. Then broke. Welcome to your future, MJ Hairston. Dumba**.

Kerlina. What an academic bulwark. You have to wonder: On his visit to criminal-central, did Wiggins get to talk to MJ Hairston? "Yeah, man, it's cool here. No school work. Lots of reefer, and when you roll with your buddies and guns, you STILL go to the NBA."

Wiggins: "Uh, no. Where is Kansas?"

The next time I hear someone claim that he chose kerlina because of the esteemed academic qualifications, I'll do what? Puke? Go postal? Nah, you can only do that stuff once. I'll just roll my eyes again. What a laughable institution those heavily-accented cretins have over there.

[howardlander]

The next time I hear someone claim that he chose kerlina because of the esteemed academic qualifications, I'll do what? Puke? Go postal? Nah, you can only do that stuff once. I'll just roll my eyes again. What a laughable institution those heavily-accented cretins have over there.

Well the truly sad thing is that UNC is an excellent academic institution. It's not as good as Duke, particularly not at the undergraduate level, but it is nonetheless one of the premier public universities. The problem is that when it comes to athletics it truly seems that the inmates are running the asylum. I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I went to undergrad at Duke, grad school at UNC and I now work at UNC. Trust me when I say that many of the faculty members here are livid. And if you don't believe me, ask Holden Thorp...

Howard

[Kedsy]

Absent a felon in possession, or something strange when tracing the gun, I agree this is something small.

Of course, if he rolls on someone, he may have to testify down the line. Doubtful, but that would be true whether state or fed.

I haven't practiced law in years, and only in Pennsylvania. For a federal prosecutor to get involved, don't you need a federal crime? What federal law would have been violated in this case?

[rsvman]

I don't understand publishing a children's book called "I want to go to UNC." It must've had the smallest target audience in the history of publishing.

I mean, think about it. People who buy children's books are parents who want to help their children learn to read and introduce them to the idea of learning through books. What percentage of those people could possibly also want their child to attend the Dump on the Hump?

[Henderson]

Well the truly sad thing is that UNC is an excellent academic institution. It's not as good as Duke, particularly not at the undergraduate level, but it is nonetheless one of the premier public universities. The problem is that when it comes to athletics it truly seems that the inmates are running the asylum. I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I went to undergrad at Duke, grad school at UNC and I now work at UNC. Trust me when I say that many of the faculty members here are livid. And if you don't believe me, ask Holden Thorp...

Howard

A good point. UNC-CH has some outstanding academic programs that have nothing to do with this. And I'm glad some faculty are livid. But when an institution creates by its inaction a culture of approval/denial/inaction for "inappropriate" academic or disciplinary behavior, it's fair in my judgment to draw the obvious conclusion -- the university is good with it. It becomes one of "those" schools.

Until someone over there takes that to heart and cleans house, that is UNC. One of "those" schools.

[BD80]

I don't understand publishing a children's book called "I want to go to UNC." It must've had the smallest target audience in the history of publishing. ...

I would think it was targeted to a relatively broad audience: potential unc athletes that are juniors and seniors in high school about to make a college decision!

[Kimist]

Thanks. My non-expert points from it:

1. One bag with 41 oz, one with 2. One additional Baggie. Guess: just scored, one had the rest of a personal stash. Not sure if extra Baggie was clean or had residue, but probably got it so they could split it and not sell.

2. Three cigars = 3 blunts. Ready to party, maybe planned ahead before the buy.

3. Gun with serial number -- ATF will be notified and perhaps involved. Anyone know anything about the AUSA in the district?

4. Rental agreement was taken in evidence, not just left in the glove compartment with other paperwork. This ain't over.




I think your points are reasonable. The one of note is #2, supported by #1. A reasonable person, with knowledge of local drug activities, could easily surmise the connection between the creation of three blunts and an upcoming party. The area of the arrest location in Durham would easily be the "starting point."

As for going with any PWITSD, that would be an uphill climb for any prosecutor dealing with these (known) facts. Leverage, perhaps, but highly unlikely to lead to such a drug conviction. As others have noted, the misdemeanor -->> felony possession level is 1.5 oz in NC. The "bad guys" frequently know that break point. And the weights given may not be reliable (containers?) until a lab report is returned, which could easily drop things to misdemeanor possession. Even so, a prosecutor might not pursue a felony charge with a quantity of this level.

It's ironic that the thing that most likely started the wheels turning was the NOL, when everything went downhill afterwards. Absent a haze of smoke emanating from the car, or perhaps surveillance of a recent drug purchase, very little police action would be expected. Whoever tossed the firearm out, however, DID tilt the tables toward an arrest scenario.

The totally unexpected surprise here is the ownership/registration of the vehicle. Depending upon what facts eventually surface, a more-or-less small problem has likely mushroomed into a problem of considerable proportions. Of course, such an assumption would first assume the NCAA has anyone who gives a darn about what goes on with the unc big-money sports.

k

[arnie]

Well the truly sad thing is that UNC is an excellent academic institution. It's not as good as Duke, particularly not at the undergraduate level, but it is nonetheless one of the premier public universities. The problem is that when it comes to athletics it truly seems that the inmates are running the asylum. I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I went to undergrad at Duke, grad school at UNC and I now work at UNC. Trust me when I say that many of the faculty members here are livid. And if you don't believe me, ask Holden Thorp...

Howard

If what you say is true (and I hope it is) then these faculty members need to make a stink. I've only heard a few faculty members speak out - they need to raise he-- with the administration. Otherwise, the coverup remains and no incentive to change.

[OldPhiKap]

I haven't practiced law in years, and only in Pennsylvania. For a federal prosecutor to get involved, don't you need a federal crime? What federal law would have been violated in this case?

The theory is, firearms are acquired through interstate commerce or transactions.

There was a case in the S.Ct. maybe ten or fifteen years ago, striking down a "no guns in a school zone" law as being outside the commerce clause IIRC. But these federal statutes for felons in possession still exist and are prosecuted. For a while, rumor in this neck of the woods was that there was some sort of financial incentive to prosecute these. Do not know if that is true or not.

In any event, it is all speculation to me as to who had the gun, or ven if it necessarily came from this car. We will know more between now and the initial appearance (currently set for early August I think).

[OldPhiKap]

I don't understand publishing a children's book called "I want to go to UNC." It must've had the smallest target audience in the history of publishing.

I mean, think about it. People who buy children's books are parents who want to help their children learn to read and introduce them to the idea of learning through books. What percentage of those people could possibly also want their child to attend the Dump on the Hump?

Well, it was in Swahili . . . .

[OldPhiKap]

A good point. UNC-CH has some outstanding academic programs that have nothing to do with this. And I'm glad some faculty are livid. But when an institution creates by its inaction a culture of approval/denial/inaction for "inappropriate" academic or disciplinary behavior, it's fair in my judgment to draw the obvious conclusion -- the university is good with it. It becomes one of "those" schools.

Until someone over there takes that to heart and cleans house, that is UNC. One of "those" schools.

Are you suggesting -- lack of institutional control?

[Indoor66]

Are you suggesting -- lack of institutional control?

Not happening. They know exactly what is happening. They just don't give a damn.

[Merlindevildog91]

I haven't practiced law in years, and only in Pennsylvania. For a federal prosecutor to get involved, don't you need a federal crime? What federal law would have been violated in this case?

Felon in possession cases can be federal crimes. I think they hang their hats on the fact that the guns aren't made in the state of the crime, and thus are part of interstate commerce.

I can't say this for certain, as federal prosecutors NEVER come to our backwater Virginia county (so I haven't discussed the topic with anyone), but that's what I seem to remember.

[Henderson]

Are you suggesting -- lack of institutional control?

Heaven forbid. When I look at the UNC athletic department over the past 3 years, I see only a big check mark for a job well done. How could anyone say the University doesn't take this stuff seriously? I think I read a press release explicitly saying that they do. And they fired all those faculty and dismissed all those students. What more do you want?

So I'm sure the MJ Hairston issue will be resolved with the academic and athletic integrity of UNC-CH as the primary consideration.

[Steven43]

Well the truly sad thing is that UNC is an excellent academic institution. It's not as good as Duke, particularly not at the undergraduate level, but it is nonetheless one of the premier public universities. The problem is that when it comes to athletics it truly seems that the inmates are running the asylum. I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I went to undergrad at Duke, grad school at UNC and I now work at UNC. Trust me when I say that many of the faculty members here are livid. And if you don't believe me, ask Holden Thorp...

Howard

I too think that UNC is an excellent academic institution. However, doesn't Duke have an even bigger advantage when compared to UNC at the graduate and professional school level than it does at the undergrad level? That is what I have come to understand anyway.

[Duvall]

I too think that UNC is an excellent academic institution. However, doesn't Duke have an even bigger advantage when compared to UNC at the graduate and professional school level than it does at the undergrad level? That is what I have come to understand anyway.

I think it's more that comparing whole universities at the graduate level doesn't make much sense, since department strength is far more important.

[moonpie23]

Trust me when I say that many of the faculty members here are livid. And if you don't believe me, ask Holden Thorp...

Howard

sorry...i don't agree........just like the long-time ticket holder that finally "loses it" and tosses a 64oz drink into the middle of the basketball court......EVERYONE, and i mean EVERYONE around him knows who did it. Unless they stand up and point him out and demand his removal, he stays..

All these faculty members have plenty of evidence to put a stop to this and blow the whistle. They don't because of the admin pressure, and fear of the aftermath....


those faculty members know the deal....

[Jim3k]

I would think it was targeted to a relatively broad audience: potential unc athletes that are juniors and seniors in high school about to make a college decision!

Well played, sir.

Edit: And worth a szpork--but denied by the system.

[Reilly]

On the topic of the feds taking jurisdiction over "small time" gun violations, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile

I believe the architect was Jim Comey, now the FBI Director nominee.

[Atlanta Duke]

On the topic of the feds taking jurisdiction over "small time" gun violations, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile

I believe the architect was Jim Comey, now the FBI Director nominee.

Good catch

I once prosecuted a guy who stole a cell phone and pack of cigarettes and had a gun on him when he was caught - because he had three prior felony convictions he got the mandatory federal minimum of 15 years

It is a way to get perps with guns off the streets - the UNC grad who is the U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina has used the tactic recently

Richmond County Residents Plead Guilty To Federal Drug and Firearm Charges - Ten face lengthy sentences for federal offenses

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ncm/news/2013/01_14_13.html

[94duke]

I don't know about NC, but in most states a gun doesn't have to be "registered" at all. But I share Bob's suspicion: What reason would there be for him to dump the gun? He could just say, "Yeah, that's mine, and it's not concealed." OTOH, if the young man who owned/possessed it had a felony conviction, that would be reason to dump it, because felons are prohibited from possessing firearms. Felon-in-possession is another felony, and it usually means jail time. Or he may have just been young, stoned, and jumpy. Or maybe he didn't know whether it was stolen or not. Lots of missing information here.

Two bags of weed with a total of 1.5 oz. in them, plus some baggies in the car is a really weak "intent to distribute" case. DAs like to use that stuff as leverage, but without a scale or a larger amount, a distribution case would never go to trial unless there were other charges to go to trial on.

The handgun only needs to be registered if the owner resides in Durham County.

There is only one county in NC that requires you to register a handgun, Durham County. If you are a resident of Durham County and purchase a handgun, you are required to register it within 10 days. It is a state law from 1935. You can read it here:
http://digital.ncdcr.gov/cdm/ref/collection/p249901coll22/id/294919

A bill has been submitted to have it repealed this year:
http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2013/Bills/Senate/PDF/S226v2.pdf
If I'm reading this correctly, it has cleared the state Senate and is now with the House.
http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2013&BillID=S226&ncga=103

[howardlander]

sorry...i don't agree........just like the long-time ticket holder that finally "loses it" and tosses a 64oz drink into the middle of the basketball court......EVERYONE, and i mean EVERYONE around him knows who did it. Unless they stand up and point him out and demand his removal, he stays..

All these faculty members have plenty of evidence to put a stop to this and blow the whistle. They don't because of the admin pressure, and fear of the aftermath....


those faculty members know the deal....

I think most of the faculty members didn't know. Sure they knew about lower standards for athletic admissions and extra tutoring, but it's not like most of the the faculty had these guys in class. Don't forget that we aren't talking about every football or basketball player and there are several thousand faculty members at UNC.

The reason I think the faculty was pretty upset is because Holden Thorp, who was in many ways the "Golden Child" of Carolina is gone. If he'd had much support from the faculty, that might not have happened. And all the ones I've talked to (not that many actually, < 5) are pretty upset.

Howard

[howardlander]

I think it's more that comparing whole universities at the graduate level doesn't make much sense, since department strength is far more important.

Right. For example, UNC has a very strong School of Information and Library Science. Does Duke even have that? UNC does also have strong Medical and Law schools, a good School of Public Health and other assorted highly ranked programs. Duke is better, but there is a difference between UNC and Clemson or Maryland.

Howard

[MCFinARL]

Right. For example, UNC has a very strong School of Information and Library Science. Does Duke even have that? UNC does also have strong Medical and Law schools, a good School of Public Health and other assorted highly ranked programs. Duke is better, but there is a difference between UNC and Clemson or Maryland.

Howard

Well, sure, like there is a difference between Duke and Carolina or Harvard and Duke. Not trying to argue that UNC is not a good school--it's a very fine one. But I am not sure why you are using Maryland as your comparison point--I understand why Maryland fans come in for ribbing here, but it is a perfectly solid state university generally speaking, with a strong undergraduate honors program. US News ranks Maryland #58 in its national universities category, compared to UNC's #30 and Clemson's #68. For reference, Duke is currently ranked #8 in this category, UVA #24, Wake #27, BC # 31, Georgia Tech #36, Miami #44, Syracuse and Pitt are both tied with Maryland at the #58 level, Virginia Tech is #72, Florida State is #97, NC State is #106, and Louisville is #160. Obviously all college ratings systems are controversial, but Maryland is hardly a big outlier in the ACC, academically speaking. And it won't be in the B1G, either, where 7 schools are ranked higher and a couple of those (Penn State and Ohio State) are just a few spots higher.

[4Gen]

Funny. Full credit to a Pack Pride poster.

Charging possession of less than a half ounce when the actual weight is 1.5 ounces (a felony): The Carolina Weigh.

[billy]

Funny. Full credit to a Pack Pride poster.

Charging possession of less than a half ounce when the actual weight is 1.5 ounces (a felony): The Carolina Weigh.

I hadn't read that before - is it because there were three in the car so they each were thought to have a third in their possession or is that not how it works?

[ricks68]

Too much personality to fit in his body ...

Too much "personality" to fit in anyone's body.

ricks

[4Gen]

I hadn't read that before - is it because there were three in the car so they each were thought to have a third in their possession or is that not how it works?
No, that's not how it works. (Practicing lawyer in NC for 30 years). It's simply what the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. All three, or two, or one could be convicted of a felony, misdemeanor, or nothing. The charge could be upped to a felony if the state chooses.

[plimnko]

No, that's not how it works. (Practicing lawyer in NC for 30 years). It's simply what the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. All three, or two, or one could be convicted of a felony, misdemeanor, or nothing. The charge could be upped to a felony if the state chooses.

Wasn't there "baggies" found in the SUV also? How does that play in any possible charges?

[4Gen]

Baggies, scales, currency are the kinds of evidence which a prosecutor may use to charge with intent to sell. Doubtful in this case. Who knows? These guys were found with a lot of dope on a sketchy street (with a gun, no less) and may have been dealing, but it would be hard to prove.

Also, the DA will factor that most Durham County juries will be loathe to convict any baller of anything.

[tommy]

I hadn't read that before - is it because there were three in the car so they each were thought to have a third in their possession or is that not how it works?

The issue is whether one, two, or all three of them can be proven to have some kind of "dominion and control" over the dope. It isn't just divided into three convenient portions like that. It's possible that one guy had it in his pocket and he is the only one with dominion and control over it. It's possible that two or even three of them were in "joint possession" (no pun intended) of it. Maybe it's on the floorboard. If it's under the driver's seat, then more likely he's the only one deemed to be in possession of it. Under a passenger's seat? Then maybe that passenger and the driver are both in joint possession, or just the passenger. Then there's the legal concept of "constructive possession" whereby someone who isn't in actual possession of contraband, as in it's not actually on his person, yet still because he's in control of the car or the dope is within his arm's reach, or other situations, that person is deemed to be in possession of it.

Usually in cases like this, one of the occupants of the car will roll on the actual possessor of the dope, or someone will admit the dope was his. Less likely in a higher profile case like this one, though.

Where the heck is the information about the car rental? Not sure why it's taking so long for that information to be made public.

[BD80]

Are there potential charges for attempting to dispose of the gun and the one bag of pot? (found outside of the vehicle)

At least they removed the magazine before throwing the gun out of the car

[weezie]

Are there potential charges for attempting to dispose of the gun and the one bag of pot? (found outside of the vehicle)

At least they removed the magazine before throwing the gun out of the car


Nothing if not considerate young gentlemen. Oy.

[4Gen]

A Carolina baller in a late model SUV, buying (perhaps selling) a lot of dope, on Durham's main drug thoroughfare, with a loaded 9mm, accompanied by local college ballers--the motherload of street cred. The district attorney knows the jury is more likely to ask for autographs than hand down a conviction.

[Duvall]

Where the heck is the information about the car rental? Not sure why it's taking so long for that information to be made public.

Is there a reason why that information should be expected to become public? It doesn't seem germane to any of the potential criminal charges.

[Dev11]

Is there a reason why that information should be expected to become public? It doesn't seem germane to any of the potential criminal charges.

Ownership of the car may indicate ownership of things in the car. That is my understanding.

[tommy]

A Carolina baller in a late model SUV, buying (perhaps selling) a lot of dope, on Durham's main drug thoroughfare, with a loaded 9mm, accompanied by local college ballers--the motherload of street cred. The district attorney knows the jury is more likely to ask for autographs than hand down a conviction.

So what are you trying to say here exactly?

[howardlander]

Well, sure, like there is a difference between Duke and Carolina or Harvard and Duke. Not trying to argue that UNC is not a good school--it's a very fine one. But I am not sure why you are using Maryland as your comparison point--I understand why Maryland fans come in for ribbing here, but it is a perfectly solid state university generally speaking, with a strong undergraduate honors program. US News ranks Maryland #58 in its national universities category, compared to UNC's #30 and Clemson's #68. For reference, Duke is currently ranked #8 in this category, UVA #24, Wake #27, BC # 31, Georgia Tech #36, Miami #44, Syracuse and Pitt are both tied with Maryland at the #58 level, Virginia Tech is #72, Florida State is #97, NC State is #106, and Louisville is #160. Obviously all college ratings systems are controversial, but Maryland is hardly a big outlier in the ACC, academically speaking. And it won't be in the B1G, either, where 7 schools are ranked higher and a couple of those (Penn State and Ohio State) are just a few spots higher.

Oh sorry, I wasn't meaning to bash Maryland. I was just saying that while UNC isn't Duke, it is one of the leading public Universities. I just picked out a couple of solid but not fabulous ACC state schools for comparison. BTW Clemson, as you noted, is listed at #68 so it is roughly comparable to Maryland.

That list is pretty interesting. For example it has both UCLA and USC tied with UVA at #24. I wouldn't have thought that, but maybe it's just East Coast Media Bias!

Howard

[4Gen]

So what are you trying to say here exactly?
I'm trying to say that Durham County has a substantial percentage of people who hate cops, distrust courts, and idolize NBA thugs. I've worked in the real world of criminal justice for 30 years, and if you think the prosecutor's office doesn't factor these things, you are naive. And no, I didn't say all NBA'ers are thugs.

[jipops]

I'm trying to say that Durham County has a substantial percentage of people who hate cops, distrust courts, and idolize NBA thugs. I've worked in the real world of criminal justice for 30 years, and if you think the prosecutor's office doesn't factor these things, you are naive. And no, I didn't say all NBA'ers are thugs.

Yet neither a thug nor an NBA player (two completely different things) have been established or confirmed here. So I'm not sure what you're really talking about as it relates to this. Some misguided kids, one of which happens to be a talented college player, that much seems more apparent.

[bob blue devil]

Yet neither a thug nor an NBA player (two completely different things) have been established or confirmed here. So I'm not sure what you're really talking about as it relates to this. Some misguided kids, one of which happens to be a talented college player, that much seems more apparent.

yet the general point stands - not a favorable environment to prosecute these guys

[roywhite]

A Carolina baller in a late model SUV, buying (perhaps selling) a lot of dope, on Durham's main drug thoroughfare, with a loaded 9mm, accompanied by local college ballers--the motherload of street cred. The district attorney knows the jury is more likely to ask for autographs than hand down a conviction.

I hear what you're saying about a jury that might be sympathetic (or more) to the defendant here.

Yet, I can't see how Ole Roy and other UNC athletics people would want a highly publicized jury trial on these potential charges.

[MulletMan]

Thanks. My non-expert points from it:

1. One bag with 41 oz, one with 2. One additional Baggie. Guess: just scored, one had the rest of a personal stash. )

Is this right? 41 OUNCES of pot?!!!?!! First off, that is no one's personal stash. Secondly, that's not hanging in someone's pocket. That's one hellabig brick of the sticky-icky-icky!

[Acymetric]

Is this right? 41 OUNCES of pot?!!!?!! First off, that is no one's personal stash. Secondly, that's not hanging in someone's pocket. That's one hellabig brick of the sticky-icky-icky!

There's no way that's right, I've been hearing 1.5 oz combined between the guys in the car or something like that. Unless maybe they're working on a really mellow Scarface spin-off.

[killerleft]

Is this right? 41 OUNCES of pot?!!!?!! First off, that is no one's personal stash. Secondly, that's not hanging in someone's pocket. That's one hellabig brick of the sticky-icky-icky!

41 GRAMS of pot would be just short of 1.5 ounces. Don't know how anyone came up with 41 ounces unless the total was reported in grams and then mis-heard.

[OldPhiKap]

41 GRAMS of pot would be just short of 1.5 ounces. Don't know how anyone came up with 41 ounces unless the total was reported in grams and then mis-heard.

Correct, it is grams and not ounces.

Damn metric system.

[BD80]

Yet neither a thug nor an NBA player (two completely different things) have been established or confirmed here. So I'm not sure what you're really talking about as it relates to this. Some misguided kids, one of which happens to be a talented college player, that much seems more apparent.

Sorry, but the handgun negates this notion

[Kimist]

Around 1.5 oz of marijuana is not really a large amount.

Granted, it is right on the edge of the misdemeanor/felony separation line for NC, but an official lab report could quite easily (and accurately) show <1.5 oz.

A full bag and a single smaller bag would simply not support a PWITSD charge, unless other evidence/facts were presented. Not even a delusional prosecutor would go down that path.

Constructive possession could become a factor as to (legal) ownership of the drugs. There is no way to split the total weight equally among the three vehicle occupants. Don't know where that idea ever came from!

The firearms charge could present the biggest overall problem. And the NOL charge for driver PJ will definitely carry some weight, at least for him.

The legal ownership/rental contract of the vehicle will not be of great importance, except perhaps to the NCAA. (ROFLMAO)

k

[tommy]

Around 1.5 oz of marijuana is not really a large amount.

Granted, it is right on the edge of the misdemeanor/felony separation line for NC, but an official lab report could quite easily (and accurately) show <1.5 oz.

A full bag and a single smaller bag would simply not support a PWITSD charge, unless other evidence/facts were presented. Not even a delusional prosecutor would go down that path.

Constructive possession could become a factor as to (legal) ownership of the drugs. There is no way to split the total weight equally among the three vehicle occupants. Don't know where that idea ever came from!

The firearms charge could present the biggest overall problem. And the NOL charge for driver PJ will definitely carry some weight, at least for him.

The legal ownership/rental contract of the vehicle will not be of great importance, except perhaps to the NCAA. (ROFLMAO)

k

Agree with most of that, except for your last two assertions. As to the last, if the drugs were found not on any of the three occupants' persons, and not in anybody's bag, but in some more ambiguous area of the car, for instance under a seat or in the trunk or something, then the person in control of the vehicle -- either the driver, the legal owner/renter, or both, would be more likely held to be responsible for its contents than would, say, a backseat passenger with no legal interest in the vehicle.

As to the driving without a license charge, I don't know what the penalties in NC are, but out here for a guy with no priors for that offense, it's basically a decent sized fine, that's all. If a guy with no record is going to go to trial on three counts, the license charge plus drugs and a firearm, many times before trial he'll just plead to the license charge and take that off the table for the jury and make the evidence of his unlicensed status more likely to be irrelevant --because he's already pled out to that charge -- and thus not have the licensing evidence even come before the jury, and just go to trial on the drugs and gun charges.

[OldPhiKap]

Agree with most of that, except for your last two assertions. As to the last, if the drugs were found not on any of the three occupants' persons, and not in anybody's bag, but in some more ambiguous area of the car, for instance under a seat or in the trunk or something, then the person in control of the vehicle -- either the driver, the legal owner/renter, or both, would be more likely held to be responsible for its contents than would, say, a backseat passenger with no legal interest in the vehicle.

As to the driving without a license charge, I don't know what the penalties in NC are, but out here for a guy with no priors for that offense, it's basically a decent sized fine, that's all. If a guy with no record is going to go to trial on three counts, the license charge plus drugs and a firearm, many times before trial he'll just plead to the license charge and take that off the table for the jury and make the evidence of his unlicensed status more likely to be irrelevant --because he's already pled out to that charge -- and thus not have the licensing evidence even come before the jury, and just go to trial on the drugs and gun charges.

Agree, as usual.

Theoretically, if we wanted to talk about the use of property in the furtherance of a crime, the cops could confiscate and maybe sell the car as contraband. Obviously doubt it goes that far, but whomever rented the car may have some 'splaining to do.

[MCFinARL]

Oh sorry, I wasn't meaning to bash Maryland. I was just saying that while UNC isn't Duke, it is one of the leading public Universities. I just picked out a couple of solid but not fabulous ACC state schools for comparison. BTW Clemson, as you noted, is listed at #68 so it is roughly comparable to Maryland.

That list is pretty interesting. For example it has both UCLA and USC tied with UVA at #24. I wouldn't have thought that, but maybe it's just East Coast Media Bias!

Howard

Fair enough--I probably misinterpreted.

I agree it is an interesting list. Re the California schools, it probably is, at least partially, East Coast bias--statistically the schools' admitted students are comparable, with close SAT ranges (USC slightly higher than UVA, UCLA slightly lower, but quite similar overall) and GPAs for admitted students--interestingly, UCLA has the highest GPA (average 4.22) of the three. USC admits only 20% of applicants, compared to 25% for UCLA and 32% for UVA; as a private university it is a lot smaller, approximately Duke size, which probably explains this. While UCLA admits a smaller percentage of its applications (it receives over 60,000 applications a year, the large majority from in state), UVA has a better yield, enrolling 45% of admitted students. And I think they have pretty good marketing people. :D

It's my general sense (without a lot to back it up) that USC has upgraded substantially academically over the last 20-25 years. UCLA has always been pretty solid (and really quite impressive for a state university that is not the "flagship" school in the system) and is probably experiencing an uptick in the quality of applicants over the last few years as the economy has driven even more students to in-state public universities.

But this is veering far off topic--so to get back on track I will say one thing all three of these schools have in common is that their basketball coaches are happy not to be dealing with the P.J. Hairston situation right now. ;)

[Des Esseintes]

I'm trying to say that Durham County has a substantial percentage of people who hate cops, distrust courts, and idolize NBA thugs. I've worked in the real world of criminal justice for 30 years, and if you think the prosecutor's office doesn't factor these things, you are naive. And no, I didn't say all NBA'ers are thugs.

I've always said that what we should look for in our criminal justice public servants is a tendency to make broad, pejorative generalizations. This post gets a gold star. It's 100% even-handed and not at all veering into PPB material.

[Kimist]

Agree with most of that, except for your last two assertions. As to the last, if the drugs were found not on any of the three occupants' persons, and not in anybody's bag, but in some more ambiguous area of the car, for instance under a seat or in the trunk or something, then the person in control of the vehicle -- either the driver, the legal owner/renter, or both, would be more likely held to be responsible for its contents than would, say, a backseat passenger with no legal interest in the vehicle.

As to the driving without a license charge, I don't know what the penalties in NC are, but out here for a guy with no priors for that offense, it's basically a decent sized fine, that's all. If a guy with no record is going to go to trial on three counts, the license charge plus drugs and a firearm, many times before trial he'll just plead to the license charge and take that off the table for the jury and make the evidence of his unlicensed status more likely to be irrelevant --because he's already pled out to that charge -- and thus not have the licensing evidence even come before the jury, and just go to trial on the drugs and gun charges.

I thought that was pretty well exactly what I said, especially re "constructive possession."

The NOL thing will impact (potentially) only the driver. NC would treat that as a fairly serious offense, especially if other driving charges are in effect. (IIRC, there are priors for PJ ??)

The firearm is the greatest unknown at this point. If stolen, or police have record of it being used in a crime, or a felon is in the car, then related charges could escalate. Otherwise, like the drugs, it could well be a case of three individuals each saying "I don't know nuttin' !!"

I would assume the Durham PD has tested the drug containers, as well as the firearm/ammo, for latent prints, but getting any identifiable prints on such is unlikely.

Don't be surprised if the entire episode turns into a negotiated deal of a plea to, at most, greatly reduced charges for all three individuals.

The NCAA will simply continue snoozing. . .

k

[Olympic Fan]

The NCAA will simply continue snoozing. . .


Well, when it comes to the drugs and the gun and the driving without a license, there's nothing for the NCAA to look into --even if the worst case is true, it's a criminal matter, not an NCAA matter.

The only aspect of this case that I can see that MIGHT warrant NCAA interest is the ownership of the rental car ... as I mentioned in an earlier post, if it turns out the vehicle was rented by a booster or agent and given to Hairston for use, THAT would be an NCAA matter.

Frankly, I think the story that broke Sunday about the incriminating e-mails between UNC athletic counselors and the corrupt AFAM program are MUCH more likely to lead to NCAA penalties than anything connected with the Hairston case.

Not that I think it's likely that the NCAA -- which has ignored this scandal from the beginning -- will look into it now.

[moonpie23]

Not that I think it's likely that the NCAA -- which has ignored this scandal from the beginning -- will look into it now.

i think the NCAA will continue to ignore the entire thing.......unc cut a deal that included firing butch in return for no more investigations.

[BD80]

i think the NCAA will continue to ignore the entire thing.......unc cut a deal that included firing butch in return for no more investigations.

NCAA investigator: Let me see your AFAM course documentation.
unc: [with a small wave of hand] You don't need to see the AFAM course documentation.
NCAA investigator: We don't need to see the AFAM course documentation.
unc: These aren't the infractions you're looking for.
NCAA investigator: These aren't the infractions we're looking for.
unc: We can go about our business.
NCAA investigator: You can go about your business.
unc: Move along.
NCAA investigator: Move along... move along.

PackPride: I don't understand how unc got by those investigators. I thought they were dead.
unc: Money can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

[Dev11]

Okay, been married 28+ years. Have two kids, 24 and 21, one grand child that will be 4 soon. I make 6 figures and my wife is close to that. I have had low times in my life but the good Lord has pulled me through.

Extrapolate all you want, I do this to pass my time.

I follow Duke because of Coach K!


Well, when it comes to the drugs and the gun and the driving without a license, there's nothing for the NCAA to look into --even if the worst case is true, it's a criminal matter, not an NCAA matter.

The only aspect of this case that I can see that MIGHT warrant NCAA interest is the ownership of the rental car ... as I mentioned in an earlier post, if it turns out the vehicle was rented by a booster or agent and given to Hairston for use, THAT would be an NCAA matter.

Frankly, I think the story that broke Sunday about the incriminating e-mails between UNC athletic counselors and the corrupt AFAM program are MUCH more likely to lead to NCAA penalties than anything connected with the Hairston case.

Not that I think it's likely that the NCAA -- which has ignored this scandal from the beginning -- will look into it now.

Ask the folks at Penn State how much the NCAA ignores criminal matters. If this story gets more national tread, the NCAA may decide to do something about it. I am sure the NCAA knows about it and is just waiting for a good time to step in and shine.

[Duvall]

Ask the folks at Penn State how much the NCAA ignores criminal matters. If this story gets more national tread, the NCAA may decide to do something about it. I am sure the NCAA knows about it and is just waiting for a good time to step in and shine.

It's going to take a lot more than 43 grams of weed to put this matter in Penn State territory.

[UrinalCake]

So reports are that PJ was working at Roy's basketball camp yesterday, as if nothing had happened. Unreal. Put aside basketball for a minute and imagine you sent your 9 year-old kid to a summer camp - at their school, the Y, whatever. Now imagine learning that one of the camp counselors had been arrested the previous weekend for driving without a license with drugs and a weapon inside his car. And then imagine hearing that he was still around your kids teaching at their camp. Any parent would tell you that all hell would break loose.

[weezie]

Any non-hole fan parent, silly U-Cake.

Yeech, why would anyone have their kid at that camp in the first place? The worst thing that ever happened to my son was a terrible case of athlete's foot at Duke's camp....some counselor must have forgotten that young boys need to often be encouraged to shower with the business end of a cattle prod.

[Ichabod Drain]

So reports are that PJ was working at Roy's basketball camp yesterday, as if nothing had happened. Unreal. Put aside basketball for a minute and imagine you sent your 9 year-old kid to a summer camp - at their school, the Y, whatever. Now imagine learning that one of the camp counselors had been arrested the previous weekend for driving without a license with drugs and a weapon inside his car. And then imagine hearing that he was still around your kids teaching at their camp. Any parent would tell you that all hell would break loose.

Would you let your child go to a camp where JJ was working? After he got his DWI? Also the gun was not found in the car.

Maybe I'm more socially liberal than most but it doesn't really bother me too much. The gun maybe, but nothing has been proven about that yet.