Discussions on Moving, the Fan Guide, and Football

[dukenilnil]

Moving questions and fan guide comment:

Moving questions - Is the move a behind the scenes move or will the user see significant changes and a change in URL? One of the things I love about DBR is the format and structure of the pages. While SB Websites tend to have very good information, the format is often attrocious and frequently tinkered with from the top down so I tend to avoid their websites when possible. Support what you guys need to do to keep the site coming but hope you don't have to give up too much creative control on the content format when it moves over.

Fan Guide: Purchased it last year, loved it. Please put it out in e-book format regardless of whether a print version is also available.

[Dev11]

SB Nation has a totally different format from this site, the main thing being that comments and articles are found on the same page. I don't think I know another blog like DBR where the articles are mostly anonymous and have no comments section. Frankly, I prefer that aspect of SBN.

The difficult aspect of a move would be keeping up as many topics as we do here. The DBR format allows for about 20 active threads to be bouncing up to the top every few days, whereas SBN always throws new articles to the top and pushes everybody else down one slot. Fanposts are kept off to the side, and would be used for topics here like "Who will be the starting center next year?" In that sense, the DBR way is better. It also requires that any topic (fanshot) be introduced with a lengthy description.

SBN recently underwent a big makeover to all of their sites, so it is now much easier to hop over to another board and know how things work. I also like that everybody keeps their domain name, so the URL would likely not change.

As with any change, if it happens, we would moan about it for a while and then get used to it. I'll blindly submit to whatever happens.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

In answer to one possible aspect of this migration, yes, please do more to cover Duke football! The upward trend of the program is worth following. :D

[1 24 90]

Regarding the fan guide, I prefer a print version. I have purchased those in the past but did not buy the e version from last year. I know, I'm old school.

[ChillinDuke]

SB Nation has a totally different format from this site, the main thing being that comments and articles are found on the same page. I don't think I know another blog like DBR where the articles are mostly anonymous and have no comments section. Frankly, I prefer that aspect of SBN.

The difficult aspect of a move would be keeping up as many topics as we do here. The DBR format allows for about 20 active threads to be bouncing up to the top every few days, whereas SBN always throws new articles to the top and pushes everybody else down one slot. Fanposts are kept off to the side, and would be used for topics here like "Who will be the starting center next year?" In that sense, the DBR way is better. It also requires that any topic (fanshot) be introduced with a lengthy description.

SBN recently underwent a big makeover to all of their sites, so it is now much easier to hop over to another board and know how things work. I also like that everybody keeps their domain name, so the URL would likely not change.

As with any change, if it happens, we would moan about it for a while and then get used to it. I'll blindly submit to whatever happens.

Dev,

I am not very familiar with SBN. Would the move impact the ability of the community to drive the conversation? What I mean is, DBR is excellent because true fans (who care more than pundits and follow-happy personalities spread thinly across the universe of colleges/teams) drive our conversations in meaningful ways that consistently better address and predict the goings on of all things Duke.

Would the move create an atmosphere where those in power at SBN (think: Stephen A. Smith type personalities) would push down on us articles that would take preference on the platform over fan-created posts, threads, arenas for discussion? I, for one, am highly unlikely to participate in a board where I can't easily retrieve the generally excellent wisdom, analysis, and level of care found on this board from some poorly constructed, generic, hype-based articles that don't add any value and may be at best tangentially related to Duke and pushed to me because of a one word keyword.

- Chillin

[Dev11]

Dev,

I am not very familiar with SBN. Would the move impact the ability of the community to drive the conversation? What I mean is, DBR is excellent because true fans (who care more than pundits and follow-happy personalities spread thinly across the universe of colleges/teams) drive our conversations in meaningful ways that consistently better address and predict the goings on of all things Duke.

Would the move create an atmosphere where those in power at SBN (think: Stephen A. Smith type personalities) would push down on us articles that would take preference on the platform over fan-created posts, threads, arenas for discussion? I, for one, am highly unlikely to participate in a board where I can't easily retrieve the generally excellent wisdom, analysis, and level of care found on this board from some poorly constructed, generic, hype-based articles that don't add any value and may be at best tangentially related to Duke and pushed to me because of a one word keyword.

- Chillin

SBN definitely focuses more on individual writers than a community of contributors, but I believe they can set it up so that our more erudite posters can write main articles, thus empowering them as louder voices. They don't push big names on you, because frankly, nobody on there is really a 'big' name, with the exception (in my view) of some of their college football writers. I promise you won't get any Stephen A types.

I wouldn't worry about the community being diluted, except that we would no longer have the 'pitchforks' to identify more respected (or funnier) posters, but the threads generally move better because you aren't limited to just 20 posts before you have to hit 'next.' It's more of a conversation than a topic board.

[-jk]

As DBR currently exists, there is the main page, with articles and links, and these board pages (EK, Off-Topic, and Ticket Exchange). The main page is mostly written by Julian (pretty much all the unsigned posts), with guest columnists (Featherston, Jacobs, and Sumner being the primary ones) - traditional top-down publishing. This board is a community: member driven, with generally light moderation by members chosen (condemned) based on their overall style and willingness to help (suffer) for our community.

I think the balance between Julian's main page and this member's board has worked well, both for those who just want the stories and links, and those of us who also want discussions - on the main page articles, but even more so on additional material members bring in.

The SBN sites tend to have blog posts (with comments), "fanposts" (with no real content) and no board (at least as far as I can tell). I think comments on blog posts would be too hard to follow, leave too much unsaid, and would ultimately kill this community. I've asked Julian about maintaining the board after converting the blog side over.

-jk

[Bob Green]

In answer to one possible aspect of this migration, yes, please do more to cover Duke football! The upward trend of the program is worth following. :D

I agree! More coverage of Duke football is desired. In regard to fan guide magazines, I really like magazines so I buy them and strategically locate them.

[ChillinDuke]

As DBR currently exists, there is the main page, with articles and links, and these board pages (EK, Off-Topic, and Ticket Exchange). The main page is mostly written by Julian (pretty much all the unsigned posts), with guest columnists (Featherston, Jacobs, and Sumner being the primary ones) - traditional top-down publishing. This board is a community: member driven, with generally light moderation by members chosen (condemned) based on their overall style and willingness to help (suffer) for our community.

I think the balance between Julian's main page and this member's board has worked well, both for those who just want the stories and links, and those of us who also want discussions - on the main page articles, but even more so on additional material members bring in.

The SBN sites tend to have blog posts (with comments), "fanposts" (with no real content) and no board (at least as far as I can tell). I think comments on blog posts would be too hard to follow, leave too much unsaid, and would ultimately kill this community. I've asked Julian about maintaining the board after converting the blog side over.

-jk

My gut agrees with you.

I would be sad to see the community dissolve or even erode. I, for one, would lose a real sense of connection with the team through our various rants and ramblings.

- Chillin

[CDu]

The SBN sites tend to have blog posts (with comments), "fanposts" (with no real content) and no board (at least as far as I can tell). I think comments on blog posts would be too hard to follow, leave too much unsaid, and would ultimately kill this community. I've asked Julian about maintaining the board after converting the blog side over.

The SBN sites serve as a board in and of themselves. Folks can comment (just like on the EK and OT boards) on blog posts, fanposts, and fanshots. The viewing of the fanposts and fanshots would be a little bit different (in that it isn't on a separate page like it is now), but not dramatically so.

An additional benefit of the "comments" approach is that you can see ALL of the replies to a particular post (rather than having only the most recent 20)? It should hopefully reduce some of the repetitive posts, and will certainly reduce the amount of effort it takes to go back and find a previous comment. And discussions are less likely to get lost that way. And by being able to reply to replies, you can contain a discussion to a part of the board (so other folks can easily ignore if they want to do so).

Ultimately, if DBR went that route, I think the only thing that needs to happen to maintain the "board" qualities is for folks to keep regularly posting fanposts, and for folks to treat the FanPosts section the same way they treat the EK and Off-Topic boards.

I have participated on a few different SBN sites, and the communities function in many ways EXACTLY like DBR does. The layout is, of course, different. But the conversational, "neighborhood pub" style is pretty similar.

[DueBlevil]

SB Nation has a totally different format from this site, the main thing being that comments and articles are found on the same page. I don't think I know another blog like DBR where the articles are mostly anonymous and have no comments section. Frankly, I prefer that aspect of SBN.



I have participated on a few different SBN sites, and the communities function in many ways EXACTLY like DBR does. The layout is, of course, different. But the conversational, "neighborhood pub" style is pretty similar.

I agree with the above comments. I have also participated in some other SBN sites, and while it is different from the format here, I have come to like it more. It much more easily incorporates pictures/videos than anything this site is capable of. The editor of the sites are not the bosses of SBN but rather someone specific to the school (in our case it will be the DBR overlords, presumably). As people have alluded to above, in addition to being able to comment on all main posts, fans make "fanposts," and if the editor sees fit, I have seen fanposts that generate a lot of discussion elevated to the level of featured articles. If you are curious to see how SBN works, I recommend checking out the BC SBN site (http://www.bcinterruption.com/) as one of the better ones.

[Kedsy]

The SBN sites tend to have blog posts (with comments), "fanposts" (with no real content) and no board (at least as far as I can tell). I think comments on blog posts would be too hard to follow, leave too much unsaid, and would ultimately kill this community. I've asked Julian about maintaining the board after converting the blog side over.

I agree that blogpost comments and fanposts would not adequately replace the Board. The vBulletin forum software is pretty high end, plus we're all used to it. We'd lose a lot if DBR moved away from it. I'll add my vote and sincerely hope we can keep the EK Board.

[SmartDevil]

Reactions and questions....some things to think about. (I'm thinking about them anyway!)

As to a pre-season guide to Duke basketball, I'd enjoy a print version in addition to the electronic version.

I'd like to see more ongoing coverage of football on the electronic DBR including some kind of annual preview and pre-season analysis of our team and those of our opponents (some greater focus on our scheduled opponents applies to basketball too)......these updated as appropriate.

Without diminishing the great focus on basketball, I'd like to see additional coverage of other Duke sports....pre-season previews, notable results in-season, progress toward playoffs, etc.

I'd like to see a much increased focus on history of our basketball and football programs in particular (and to a substantially lesser extent history of other sports). I think Duke fans typically have an appreciation of and interest in history, much more so than fans of other programs. (Part of this no doubt is that we have so many things to be proud of, I'm sure.)

Finally, as we all love all things GTHC, I'd enjoy more coverage of what is going on with respect to UNC, particularly its trials and travails. Those of us not in the Triangle area probably miss out on a lot that is communicated in the local media and conversationally.

Oh, and a question....will a full or increased switch to the new platform mean is there any reason to be concerned about having to deal with more we will have to deal with more trolls and Duke haters/baiters.

[CDu]

I agree with the above comments. I have also participated in some other SBN sites, and while it is different from the format here, I have come to like it more. It much more easily incorporates pictures/videos than anything this site is capable of. The editor of the sites are not the bosses of SBN but rather someone specific to the school (in our case it will be the DBR overlords, presumably). As people have alluded to above, in addition to being able to comment on all main posts, fans make "fanposts," and if the editor sees fit, I have seen fanposts that generate a lot of discussion elevated to the level of featured articles. If you are curious to see how SBN works, I recommend checking out the BC SBN site (http://www.bcinterruption.com/) as one of the better ones.

That BC site is an EXCELLENT example. Note that the "Fanposts" section is set up almost identically to the "EK Board" section.

The major differences are:
1. you don't have as much time to edit a post once it's been posted (just 90 seconds)
2. you can see all of the replies to a particular post (as well as all of the replies to replies) on the same page
3. you get real-time updates to the replies while you are on the page, which allows for an easy flow of conversation

Honestly, I don't see how the SBN approach would negatively affect DBR. Aside from folks' general aversion to change, I guess. But I really don't see the "comments" style being in any way less conducive to this board's conversation than what DBR has. It's different, yes. But I don't think it's different in such a way as to make life worse for DBR. My guess is that the folks who are against it are either (a) just averse to change or (b) haven't really spent much time in an SBN community.

The DBR message board has survived changes before. If DBR goes to the SBN format, it'll survive that too. And I suspect you'll find that the differences are pretty minor.

[Reilly]

... I really like magazines so I buy them and strategically locate them.

Duke ones intact in a wicker basket on the floor and UNC ones kept a little higher and "read" one page at a time?

[fuse]

While I largely lurk, I've been a lurker since before DBR was in its current incarnation.
I've been privileged to meet Julio in person at a Duke basketball event long ago.

Change is hard, and I understand why people are apprehensive.
I'd like to take the opportunity to thank the current moderators, Julio, Boswell and anyone else behind the scenes very much for all their effort in making DBR the best fan site, period.

Having an awesome cast of posting characters doesn't hurt, either.

Thank you DBR crew. I look forward to the continued evolution of DBR and trust your judgment that we can be as vibrant as part of SBnation as we are today.

[Bluedog]

But I really don't see the "comments" style being in any way less conducive to this board's conversation than what DBR has. It's different, yes. But I don't think it's different in such a way as to make life worse for DBR.


If DBR goes to the SBN format, it'll survive that too. And I suspect you'll find that the differences are pretty minor.

I would say a major difference would be that I would imagine that there would be less consolidation of threads/fan posts using the new method. Right now, there is one thread for "Class of 2014 recruiting" and when I want to see something new, I simply click the "new" button to go to the first post that I haven't read. With the new method, I don't believe that's possible and I'll simply view the first post/article and have to scroll down all the way (although it's organized by last reply, I can't automatically skip to post 250). And that would be a LOT of scrolling if some of these gargantuan threads were "translated" to fan posts. However, I'd imagine that when there's a new article regarding Tyus Jones, that a board member would simply post it as a new "thread"/fan post and comments would relate to that specific incident - that is, the moderators would not simply lump that in a Class of 2014 recruiting thread.

So, the board would be a bit more fragmented with shorter discussions, which could be a good or bad thing depending on what you're looking for. DBR is a lot "cleaner" than other message boards because of this consolidation of topics/moderators' philosophy, but also sometimes I'll miss an interesting article because it's buried in a thread and I didn't think to click it. I would imagine that the SBNation method will change this pretty fundamentally. You won't be able to see all the related history and extensive discussion on a topic, but the topics will be more focused. Again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's just different as you said.

[CDu]

I would say a major difference would be that I would imagine that there would be less consolidation of threads/fan posts using the new method. Right now, there is one thread for "Class of 2014 recruiting" and when I want to see something new, I simply click the "new" button to go to the first post that I haven't read. With the new method, I don't believe that's possible and I'll simply view the first post/article and have to scroll down (although it's organized by last reply, I can't automatically skip to post 250). I'd imagine that when there's a new article regarding Tyus Jones, that a fan would simply post it as a new "thread"/fast post and comments would relate to that - that is, the moderators would not simply lump that in a Class of 2014 recruiting thread.

So, the board would be a bit more fragmented with shorter discussions, which could be a good or bad thing depending on what you're looking for. DBR is a lot "cleaner" than other message boards because of this consolidation of topics/moderators' philosophy, but also sometimes I'll miss an interesting article because it's buried in a thread and I didn't think to click it. I would imagine that the SBNation method will change this pretty fundamentally. Again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's just different as you said.

Agreed, but I don't think the discussion would become much more fragmented. There are threads with thousands of posts on SBN message boards, and the good threads regularly get several hundred posts, just like we see on DBR. Yes, there would undoubtedly be some repeated posts, and the most common culprit will be the recruiting news type items. So that is a difference.

But I'd counter by saying that, is it really all that useful to have a consolidated thread all the time? I mean, by lumping everything together, you lose a lot of the posts (or you have to click back to previous pages). That problem goes away to some degree with (a) separate threads and (b) the ability to see all the posts on a thread on one page.

As with any change, there will be some features that are better and some that are worse. But I don't think the spirit of the board will die with a switch to an SBN format. I don't even think it'll be all that negatively affected. I suspect that lots of folks will find that the SBN format is much nicer than the current format.

As a user of both, I don't find one to be any better than the other. There are things I like about this site that I don't like about SBN, and there are things I like about SBN that I don't like about this site. But in communities on both boards, I've found the discussion to not be inhibited in any way.

[Dev11]

One thing I don't really know about SBN is how much control 'moderators' have. Here, the mods exert a lot of authority over posts that break our rules, and they have the power to remove people from the boards, and they step in to stop trolls pretty quickly. The boards I frequent on SBN don't have troll problems, but I am frankly unaware if there are any moderators other than the few people who post the main articles. Duke Basketball would attract a lot more trolls than my Washington Nationals, for instance.

[Here is a Turtle]

I like sb nation. I use Testudo Times, the Maryland one, and it is really well done with great writers. It's one of the better blogs on the site and can drive well over 1,000, sometimes 2,000 comments for basketball and football game threads.

I could see a Duke sbnation going really well though I do expect trolls. They are easy to pick out though.

[jacone21]

Will I still be able to be a real wanker for saying this?

[Newton_14]

As DBR currently exists, there is the main page, with articles and links, and these board pages (EK, Off-Topic, and Ticket Exchange). The main page is mostly written by Julian (pretty much all the unsigned posts), with guest columnists (Featherston, Jacobs, and Sumner being the primary ones) - traditional top-down publishing. This board is a community: member driven, with generally light moderation by members chosen (condemned) based on their overall style and willingness to help (suffer) for our community.

I think the balance between Julian's main page and this member's board has worked well, both for those who just want the stories and links, and those of us who also want discussions - on the main page articles, but even more so on additional material members bring in.

The SBN sites tend to have blog posts (with comments), "fanposts" (with no real content) and no board (at least as far as I can tell). I think comments on blog posts would be too hard to follow, leave too much unsaid, and would ultimately kill this community. I've asked Julian about maintaining the board after converting the blog side over.

-jk

This is critical in my view. We desperately need the board to maintain the community we have. If it takes a fundraiser to make it happen that's fine by me. Please let us know what we can do to help insure the board remains alive and well after the transition. This is a great community and I for one would be very saddened and upset if we lost it. Let's do whatever it takes to make it happen.

Thanks

[CDu]

This is critical in my view. We desperately need the board to maintain the community we have. If it takes a fundraiser to make it happen that's fine by me. Please let us know what we can do to help insure the board remains alive and well after the transition. This is a great community and I for one would be very saddened and upset if we lost it. Let's do whatever it takes to make it happen.

Thanks

Again, I think the concern about doomed community with an SBN format is overblown. The fanpost section (which includes comments) of SBN sites is essentially the exact same format as our boards, except that you see all of the replies (comments) on the same page. Someone posts a fanpost with content (just like the thread posts on DBR), and folks reply to the fanpost. Readers then see both the original post and all comments below. And you can reply to specific comments, creating a thread within a thread.

The one question I have seen raised that I think is legitimate is that of the moderation of posts. I know that people can be banned, and I know posts can be flagged, and I believe posts can be deleted by administrators. But I don't know whether such priveledges can be given to non-administrators. That remains a reasonable question. But the concern about the loss of community seems unfounded.

[OldPhiKap]

I agree with the above comments. I have also participated in some other SBN sites, and while it is different from the format here, I have come to like it more. It much more easily incorporates pictures/videos than anything this site is capable of. The editor of the sites are not the bosses of SBN but rather someone specific to the school (in our case it will be the DBR overlords, presumably). As people have alluded to above, in addition to being able to comment on all main posts, fans make "fanposts," and if the editor sees fit, I have seen fanposts that generate a lot of discussion elevated to the level of featured articles. If you are curious to see how SBN works, I recommend checking out the BC SBN site (http://www.bcinterruption.com/) as one of the better ones.

I appreciate the link, just went over there. It looks like everything feeds from a linked article, as opposed to someone starting a thread and then comments follow (like here). Am I understanding that rights. If so, blech.

[TruBlu]

I appreciate the link, just went over there. It looks like everything feeds from a linked article, as opposed to someone starting a thread and then comments follow (like here). Am I understanding that rights. If so, blech.

Yes, blech. I hate changes. And to quote one of my favorite posters: " . . . and get off my lawn!"

[CDu]

I appreciate the link, just went over there. It looks like everything feeds from a linked article, as opposed to someone starting a thread and then comments follow (like here). Am I understanding that rights. If so, blech.

I suspect that you either just clicked on a front page article or a Fanshots link. Go to the Fanposts link. That is the section that most resembles this board. The fanpost is a thread topic started by someone, and then replies to that topic. It is VERY similar to what we do here.

[Dev11]

Another question, since we're discussing all of this now: it is stated above that one person writes most of the anonymous articles on the front page. Why, then, are those articles written in the plural first person? Are the articles vetted by a group of people? I realize that I can click around the site and figure out who is in charge, but not having a name attached to those articles make them seem community-written.

[Dev11]

We desperately need the board to maintain the community we have.

I feel the same connection to my anonymous friends at Federal Baseball that I do to my anonymous friends here at DBR.

[-jk]

I agree with the above comments. I have also participated in some other SBN sites, and while it is different from the format here, I have come to like it more. It much more easily incorporates pictures/videos than anything this site is capable of. The editor of the sites are not the bosses of SBN but rather someone specific to the school (in our case it will be the DBR overlords, presumably). As people have alluded to above, in addition to being able to comment on all main posts, fans make "fanposts," and if the editor sees fit, I have seen fanposts that generate a lot of discussion elevated to the level of featured articles. If you are curious to see how SBN works, I recommend checking out the BC SBN site (http://www.bcinterruption.com/) as one of the better ones.

I looked at the BC site and, frankly, was underwhelmed. I don't think it can stand up to our traffic, or anything close.

Right now, the BC Interruption FanPosts section has two comments in the last 24 hours, the next newest is 3 days ago, then four at 8 or 9 days. 13 "threads" down, and it's a month old; 25 threads down and it's 4 months old - we're talking February - still on the front page of the FanPosts. Here you have to go 5 pages - 100 threads - to find a thread with a month old post. Even with the (annoying to some) thread consolidation we do, the last February post was 500 threads ago. 25 v. 500.

The longest "thread" I could find on BCI's fanposts in the last year was 96 comments. We routinely crank out a 200-post, "pre- and in-game" thread in two days, with more than half of the posts coming in two hours!

In FanPosts, I can't find a way to flatten comments (the default, "linear view" here with the newest posts at the bottom), so that all discussions fragment into multiple sub-discussions (an option called "threaded view" here) - with no way to really keep track of what you have and haven't read; our "new" button takes care of that so long as you're logged in and reading in the default mode - even if you jump from computer to iphone and back. There's no way to keep up with large, fast-paced threads on FanPosts.

In FanPosts, I don't see a way to separate off-topic or ticket exchange from the main forum. Lots of folks don't want to see discussions on movies, pro baseball, restaurants, travel, or other off-topic topics; they just want on-topic sports. Yet, many here do seem to enjoy sharing these conversations amongst themselves, enough so that you have to go back 50 threads to find a month old post. The Ticket forum gets little traffic, but is a useful tool. Many people looking for tickets post weeks or months in advance. They'd be buried forever when someone has a last-minute ticket available.

I don't see a personal messaging option, either.

The UNC, UK, and KU SBN sites - schools with enormous fanbases - have similar or worse traffic on their FanPosts sections. The BC Rivals site - using real board software - has traffic much more like ours. Fans participate on rivals or scout boards for these schools instead of fanposts because it simply works better.

Yes, at its most basic level, someone can start a topic and others can respond to it, but I don't think the FanPosts option holds a candle to a real bbs system such as vBulletin, phpBB, or UBB.Threads. We need to find a way to maintain a real board with the SBN migration. Perhaps we can be the beta for SBN to create one.

-jk

[-jk]

I feel the same connection to my anonymous friends at Federal Baseball that I do to my anonymous friends here at DBR.

I don't know your Federal Baseball group, but I do know many folks here meet up in person regularly.

-jk

[Dev11]

I looked at the BC site and, frankly, was underwhelmed. I don't think it can stand up to our traffic, or anything close.

Right now, the BC Interruption FanPosts section has two comments in the last 24 hours, the next newest is 3 days ago, then four at 8 or 9 days. 13 "threads" down, and it's a month old; 25 threads down and it's 4 months old - we're talking February - still on the front page of the FanPosts. Here you have to go 5 pages - 100 threads - to find a thread with a month old post. Even with the (annoying to some) thread consolidation we do, the last February post was 500 threads ago. 25 v. 500.

The longest "thread" I could find on BCI's fanposts in the last year was 96 comments. We routinely crank out a 200-post, "pre- and in-game" thread in two days, with more than half of the posts coming in two hours!

In FanPosts, I can't find a way to flatten comments (the default, "linear view" here with the newest posts at the bottom), so that all discussions fragment into multiple sub-discussions (an option called "threaded view" here) - with no way to really keep track of what you have and haven't read; our "new" button takes care of that so long as you're logged in and reading in the default mode - even if you jump from computer to iphone and back. There's no way to keep up with large, fast-paced threads on FanPosts.

In FanPosts, I don't see a way to separate off-topic or ticket exchange from the main forum. Lots of folks don't want to see discussions on movies, pro baseball, restaurants, travel, or other off-topic topics; they just want on-topic sports. Yet, many here do seem to enjoy sharing these conversations amongst themselves, enough so that you have to go back 50 threads to find a month old post. The Ticket forum gets little traffic, but is a useful tool. Many people looking for tickets post weeks or months in advance. They'd be buried forever when someone has a last-minute ticket available.

The UNC, UK, and KU SBN sites - schools with enormous fanbases - have similar or worse traffic on their FanPosts sections. The BC Rivals site - using real board software - has traffic much more like ours. Fans participate on rivals or scout boards for these schools instead of fanposts because it simply works better.

Yes, at its most basic level, someone can start a topic and others can respond to it, but I don't think the FanPosts option holds a candle to a real bbs system such as vBulletin, phpBB, or UBB.Threads. We need to find a way to maintain a real board with the SBN migration. Perhaps we can be the beta for SBN to create one.

-jk

I have looked at other SBN sites that have significantly more traffic than what you describe, up to about 5 new FanPosts per day. It can be done.

You can minimize portions of a thread if you hover over the top left area of a particular post. You see a little angle pointing down. Click it, and the angle now points to the right and everything within that comment is suppressed. Additionally, if you sign up for a particular blog (it takes a user name, clicking a forum agreement and usually waiting 24 hours), every time you open a post it will highlight comments that you haven't read yet, and it turns comments you have read to white.

The Off-Topic board is something that isn't easily replicated on SBN, nor are comments and private messages (at least, I haven't seen any).

[-jk]

I have looked at other SBN sites that have significantly more traffic than what you describe, up to about 5 new FanPosts per day. It can be done.

You can minimize portions of a thread if you hover over the top left area of a particular post. You see a little angle pointing down. Click it, and the angle now points to the right and everything within that comment is suppressed. Additionally, if you sign up for a particular blog (it takes a user name, clicking a forum agreement and usually waiting 24 hours), every time you open a post it will highlight comments that you haven't read yet, and it turns comments you have read to white.

The Off-Topic board is something that isn't easily replicated on SBN, nor are comments and private messages (at least, I haven't seen any).

thanks.

Is there any way to create a linear view of comments? 100 posts in two hours, creating a dozen or two branches, will quickly become unmanageable - a constant scrolling up and down. Can you point me to a "busy" fanposts site?

-jk

[Bluedog]

In FanPosts, I can't find a way to flatten comments (the default, "linear view" here with the newest posts at the bottom), so that all discussions fragment into multiple sub-discussions (an option called "threaded view" here)

Wait, are you saying there's an option on this site to have a "threaded" view instead of the default? Where do you select that? All I have seen is Standard Styles --Blue and Mobile Styles --Mobile. Maybe I'm misunderstanding - I'm not even 100% clear I know what that really means, but I'd like to find out! Thanks!

[Dev11]

thanks.

Is there any way to create a linear view of comments? 100 posts in two hours, creating a dozen or two branches, will quickly become unmanageable - a constant scrolling up and down. Can you point me to a "busy" fanposts site?

-jk

The only thing you can do is minimize a particular discussion within a comment, not linearize the whole comments section of a post. You know how around here, we'll get into pun races, or discussions in a recruiting thread about minutes or a particular player, and people will want to skip through pages of that to find the news they actually want? That gets eliminated in the SBN style. Plus, each comment takes up much less space, so its actually much more manageable than DBR. Even with whatever scrolling you need to do, you get used to it pretty quickly. Open a game thread on any site to see how organized it is, especially if you minimize discussions you don't care about.

I bounce around to other teams' sites all the time, I'd have to dig to find a really busy one.

[-jk]

Wait, are you saying there's an option on this site to have a "threaded" view instead of the default? Where do you select that? All I have seen is Standard Styles --Blue and Mobile Styles --Mobile. Maybe I'm misunderstanding - I'm not even 100% clear I know what that really means, but I'd like to find out! Thanks!

It's in the FAQ (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3217-FAQ-NCAA-Compliance-TV-Coverage-Game-Chat-quot-9F-quot-NBA&p=53922#post53922):

Go to First New Post Probably my favorite tip. This feature let's you pick up where you left off, jumping to the oldest unread message in a thread, without scrolling through to find it yourself. You must use Linear View (the one with all the posts on one or several pages). Useful for the really long threads, though you must be logged in for it to work. In any particular forum, just to the left of an unread thread's subject, there's a small, blue box with "New". Click that button to jump to the first unread message. (If you float your mouse over the arrow, it says "Go to first new post".) While reading a post, you can temporarily change the view if you want the context within the thread; click on "Display" in the upper, right area of the screen.

(I don't recall when it resets, I'm afraid - I never use it. Besides breaking the "new" button, it also has trouble in very, very long posts with very deep branches. If you want to make the setting permanent, you need to go to Settings > General Settings and look in the Thread Display Options section.)

-jk

[devil84]

Wait, are you saying there's an option on this site to have a "threaded" view instead of the default? Where do you select that? All I have seen is Standard Styles --Blue and Mobile Styles --Mobile. Maybe I'm misunderstanding - I'm not even 100% clear I know what that really means, but I'd like to find out! Thanks!

To find this (and other options):

At the top of this page, click on the Settings menu option. You know, the one to view all of your comments. :)
On the left side are several groups of options. Scroll down to the third group: My Settings. In that group, click on the General Settings link.
This brings up a long page of settings. Scroll down to the fourth group: Thread Display Options. You'll find the Thread Display Mode option here to select linear, threaded, or hybrid. It has a link to this help page (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_thread_display ) for an explanation.

Not only that, but you can change the number of posts to display on a page (up to 40) and you can choose to display or suppress avatars, signatures, and images.

Edited to add: I see -jk beat me to an answer. His tip for the NEW button is awesome, and is what I use. I don't use the threaded view. My instructions, above, are to set your view to always display to a particular mode (assuming you are logged in). He tells you about an override option. There is more than one way to skin a cat in this system, which is why I really like it.

[Bluedog]

To find this (and other options):

At the top of this page, click on the Settings menu option. You know, the one to view all of your comments. :)
On the left side are several groups of options. Scroll down to the third group: My Settings. In that group, click on the General Settings link.
This brings up a long page of settings. Scroll down to the fourth group: Thread Display Options. You'll find the Thread Display Mode option here to select linear, threaded, or hybrid. It has a link to this help page (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_thread_display ) for an explanation.

Not only that, but you can change the number of posts to display on a page (up to 40) and you can choose to display or suppress avatars, signatures, and images.

Edited to add: I see -jk beat me to an answer. His tip for the NEW button is awesome, and is what I use. I don't use the threaded view. My instructions, above, are to set your view to always display to a particular mode (assuming you are logged in). He tells you about an override option. There is more than one way to skin a cat in this system, which is why I really like it.

Great, thanks! Yes, I use the NEW button constantly, which is really convenient. The threaded view is interesting - I prefer the flatlist, but actually the Hybrid view is perhaps a good alternative as well. Learn something new every day. :)

[ChillinDuke]

To find this (and other options):

At the top of this page, click on the Settings menu option. You know, the one to view all of your comments. :)
On the left side are several groups of options. Scroll down to the third group: My Settings. In that group, click on the General Settings link.
This brings up a long page of settings. Scroll down to the fourth group: Thread Display Options. You'll find the Thread Display Mode option here to select linear, threaded, or hybrid. It has a link to this help page (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_thread_display ) for an explanation.

Not only that, but you can change the number of posts to display on a page (up to 40) and you can choose to display or suppress avatars, signatures, and images.

Edited to add: I see -jk beat me to an answer. His tip for the NEW button is awesome, and is what I use. I don't use the threaded view. My instructions, above, are to set your view to always display to a particular mode (assuming you are logged in). He tells you about an override option. There is more than one way to skin a cat in this system, which is why I really like it.

I just now, for the first time, used the NEW button. This is a fantastic feature. I feel like an ignoramus.

I also just now, for the first time, used the word "ignoramus" in a sentence.

It's a slow day at work.

- Chillin

[DueBlevil]

Can you point me to a "busy" fanposts site?


Penn State (http://www.blackshoediaries.com/) is pretty active with respect to fanposts; Louisville (http://www.cardchronicle.com/) is also pretty active, albeit with fewer comments per post

[throatybeard]

I think we're losing sight of the real issue, here. What of Jason Evans' post count?

[OldPhiKap]

Penn State (http://www.blackshoediaries.com/) is pretty active with respect to fanposts; Louisville (http://www.cardchronicle.com/) is also pretty active, albeit with fewer comments per post

Thanks. Looked at these, and I may be missing it, but -- it still looks like a system where you link an article, etc. that someone else posted, and then give a reaction. It is not poster driven, it is wait-until-someone-else-says-something-and-then-react-driven. Hope I am wrong, because that wankers.

And, yes, get the Hell off my lawn.

I think many of the posters on DBR know more than the media "experts" -- if I want media links, I will look at ESPN Insider.

JMHO. I visit DBR many times during the day, and those visits are driven by the EK and OTB board. Love the front page, but it often lags behind the DBR boards in terms of breaking news and building a community of visitors.

There is a really good synergy between the front page and DBR posting community at present. I hope that continues to grow, whatever the platform.

[CDu]

Thanks. Looked at these, and I may be missing it, but -- it still looks like a system where you link an article, etc. that someone else posted, and then give a reaction. It is not poster driven, it is wait-until-someone-else-says-something-and-then-react-driven. Hope I am wrong, because that wankers.

And, yes, get the Hell off my lawn.

I think many of the posters on DBR know more than the media "experts" -- if I want media links, I will look at ESPN Insider.

JMHO. I visit DBR many times during the day, and those visits are driven by the EK and OTB board. Love the front page, but it often lags behind the DBR boards in terms of breaking news and building a community of visitors.

There is a really good synergy between the front page and DBR posting community at present. I hope that continues to grow, whatever the platform.

You must be reading the site wrong. With a fanpost, you write whatever you want. And any member can write a fanpost. That part is EXACTLY like our board. Then folks can reply to the fanpost, or to other replies to the fanpost. The appearance is different, but the function is virtually identical.

[-jk]

You must be reading the site wrong. With a fanpost, you write whatever you want. And any member can write a fanpost. That part is EXACTLY like our board. Then folks can reply to the fanpost, or to other replies to the fanpost. The appearance is different, but the function is virtually identical.

Which "fanposts" do you follow? All the ones I've been sent to have a minuscule fraction of the posts we have here, and I still can't see how it scales. What am I missing?

-jk

[CDu]

Which "fanposts" do you follow? All the ones I've been sent to have a minuscule fraction of the posts we have here, and I still can't see how it scales. What am I missing?

-jk

I go to the Chicago team sites. The Cubs site in particular has many fanposts with hundreds of posts. The Bleed Cubbie Blue site has a VERY similar community feel. Many members regularly meet up for games (home, road, Spring training).

[weezie]

I agree that blogpost comments and fanposts would not adequately replace the Board. The vBulletin forum software is pretty high end, plus we're all used to it. We'd lose a lot if DBR moved away from it. I'll add my vote and sincerely hope we can keep the EK Board.

My vote also. It really would be sad to lose the EK!
I've made some great friends here and actually met several in person.

[-jk]

I go to the Chicago team sites. The Cubs site in particular has many fanposts with hundreds of posts. The Bleed Cubbie Blue site has a VERY similar community feel. Many members regularly meet up for games (home, road, Spring training).

The Cubs' fanposts section volume isn't close to here. They do have threads from blackhawks playoff games that run to hundreds of posts. However, there are only four threads with activity in the last 24 hours. The most recent activity in the 25th "thread" down - the bottom one on the first screen - is from almost a month ago. Here, that's 100 threads back. One of the active members there even has as his signature "The people on SBN are great.. the chat platform ABSOLUTELY SUCKS!" - not exactly a ringing endorsement.

I still don't see "fanposts" as a viable replacement for a real board. Fortunately, Julian thinks SBN does want to try to keep the board somehow; the more pressing problem is the main page software which was custom-built, and getting hard to maintain. The current SBN default doesn't look or work anything like the homepage of DBR, with the auto-feed of chronicle links, teaser and headlines from posts, and the revolving pictures.

-jk

[DueBlevil]

I think in an ideal world, the blog would move over to SBN's software--the blog on the frontpage here is outdated and I really think SBN does that part of it better--while maintaining a true message board here, at least until people have fully migrated over to SBN. I'm not sure if that is practical from an administrative perspective. I think people will become accustomed to SBN quicker than they might initially imagine.

And remember, just because other SBN sites don't have the message board traffic on their fanposts that we have here doesn't mean that we can't accomplish that on the Duke site. The value of this board is not the layout of the posts, it's the content of what people write. SBN will not change that, even if it does look a little foreign to you at first.

[CDu]

The Cubs' fanposts section volume isn't close to here. They do have threads from blackhawks playoff games that run to hundreds of posts. However, there are only four threads with activity in the last 24 hours. The most recent activity in the 25th "thread" down - the bottom one on the first screen - is from almost a month ago. Here, that's 100 threads back. One of the active members there even has as his signature "The people on SBN are great.. the chat platform ABSOLUTELY SUCKS!" - not exactly a ringing endorsement.

I still don't see "fanposts" as a viable replacement for a real board. Fortunately, Julian thinks SBN does want to try to keep the board somehow; the more pressing problem is the main page software which was custom-built, and getting hard to maintain. The current SBN default doesn't look or work anything like the homepage of DBR, with the auto-feed of chronicle links, teaser and headlines from posts, and the revolving pictures.

-jk

The fanpost section functions nearly exactly like the DBR boards do. Take it from an actual user. Just because there are fewer posts in some threads on some boards does not mean the the SBN isn't conducive to such conversation. That is just a function of that particular community. The BleedCubbieBlue forum, for example, does more of its conversing on the main page posts. That is just how they like it. Those threads usually get several hundred replies, just like ours. Trust me: that site isn't lacking for community or healthy debate.

Another thing to note. In the comments sections, new replies appear in a different color. So it is very easy to follow a conversation. This feature is only available to members of that site. So since you are not a member (and are thus unable to post) you wouldn't be able to see that.


I think in an ideal world, the blog would move over to SBN's software--the blog on the frontpage here is outdated and I really think SBN does that part of it better--while maintaining a true message board here, at least until people have fully migrated over to SBN. I'm not sure if that is practical from an administrative perspective. I think people will become accustomed to SBN quicker than they might initially imagine.

And remember, just because other SBN sites don't have the message board traffic on their fanposts that we have here doesn't mean that we can't accomplish that on the Duke site. The value of this board is not the layout of the posts, it's the content of what people write. SBN will not change that, even if it does look a little foreign to you at first.

Exactly. The format isn't going to kill the conversation. The community is strong such that we will be fine. I guess people are just terrified of anything different. But this board has endured multiple iterations, and each time a change was looming there were cries that the community discussion would be killed by the change. And yet, each time, the conversation has survived. There is nonreason to think this will be different.

[Here is a Turtle]

I really think that this place can thrive in sbnation and be one of the better ACC blogs and be more like Maryland's Testudo Times or Miami's blog, which can be pretty solid as well.

I think this community would love the fanpost and fanshot sections. Game threads are pretty enjoyable too.

There actually is a Duke SBN that is strictly basketball, but is shared with UNC though.
http://www.bluevsblue.com

[CDu]

I really think that this place can thrive in sbnation and be one of the better ACC blogs and be more like Maryland's Testudo Times or Miami's blog, which can be pretty solid as well.

I think this community would love the fanpost and fanshot sections. Game threads are pretty enjoyable too.

There actually is a Duke SBN that is strictly basketball, but is shared with UNC though.
http://www.bluevsblue.com

Yeah, SBN is FANTASTIC for game threads. And I completely agree about the Fanpost and Fanshot sections. Another nice feature is the ability to reply right in the main blog posts.

[Newton_14]

Yeah, SBN is FANTASTIC for game threads. And I completely agree about the Fanpost and Fanshot sections. Another nice feature is the ability to reply right in the main blog posts.

Sorry but I am with -jk on this one. I see nothing fantastic about the format and I have looked at every link provided. Every one is an article with comments below. There isn't a true "message board" format like DBR, BDN, 247 Devils Lair, Rivals, Scout, etc where you can for example reply to multiple posts at the same time, editing out parts you don't want to respond to. A DBR in-game and post-game thread in the SBN format would be un-manageable. I think lots of people would bolt to other message boards more appeasing to the eye and easier to follow.



And format absolutely matters. Members want User Friendly formats that are easy to both follow and participate in. That is part of the reason DBR is by a mile the highest traffic site of all of the SBN sites college and pro. It's not even close.

Hopefully with the EK/OT/Ticket Exchange Boards we will keep our Vbulletin format and only the Front Page of DBR will adapt to the SBN format.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

I agree that blogpost comments and fanposts would not adequately replace the Board. The vBulletin forum software is pretty high end, plus we're all used to it. We'd lose a lot if DBR moved away from it. I'll add my vote and sincerely hope we can keep the EK Board.

FWIW, these are my feelings too.

[CDu]

Sorry but I am with -jk on this one. I see nothing fantastic about the format and I have looked at every link provided. Every one is an article with comments below. There isn't a true "message board" format like DBR, BDN, 247 Devils Lair, Rivals, Scout, etc where you can for example reply to multiple posts at the same time, editing out parts you don't want to respond to. A DBR in-game and post-game thread in the SBN format would be un-manageable. I think lots of people would bolt to other message boards more appeasing to the eye and easier to follow.



And format absolutely matters. Members want User Friendly formats that are easy to both follow and participate in. That is part of the reason DBR is by a mile the highest traffic site of all of the SBN sites college and pro. It's not even close.

Hopefully with the EK/OT/Ticket Exchange Boards we will keep our Vbulletin format and only the Front Page of DBR will adapt to the SBN format.

Agree to disagree. Having spent plenty of time on both formats, I have seen no reason to believe the community would suffer. But, oh well, I can't convince anyone who doesn't want to be convinced. Whatever happens will happen, and I will continue to enjoy the board either way.

[OldPhiKap]

Sorry but I am with -jk on this one. I see nothing fantastic about the format and I have looked at every link provided. Every one is an article with comments below. There isn't a true "message board" format like DBR, BDN, 247 Devils Lair, Rivals, Scout, etc where you can for example reply to multiple posts at the same time, editing out parts you don't want to respond to. A DBR in-game and post-game thread in the SBN format would be un-manageable. I think lots of people would bolt to other message boards more appeasing to the eye and easier to follow.



And format absolutely matters. Members want User Friendly formats that are easy to both follow and participate in. That is part of the reason DBR is by a mile the highest traffic site of all of the SBN sites college and pro. It's not even close.

Hopefully with the EK/OT/Ticket Exchange Boards we will keep our Vbulletin format and only the Front Page of DBR will adapt to the SBN format.

This is exactly what I was trying to articulate before. CDu seems genuinely convinced that this is not a problem, and I have no reason to disbelieve him/her (sorry, not sure which). But I am concerned that I am unable to find anything other than as you describe.

It's not a matter of not wanting to be convinced. I want whatever we have to work. I must be looking at it wrong, but I just don't see how the links provided so far are anything less than inferior.

[CDu]

This is exactly what I was trying to articulate before. CDu seems genuinely convinced that this is not a problem, and I have no reason to disbelieve him/her (sorry, not sure which). But I am concerned that I am unable to find anything other than as you describe.

It's not a matter of not wanting to be convinced. I want whatever we have to work. I must be looking at it wrong, but I just don't see how the links provided so far are anything less than inferior.

"him" is correct, and no offense taken (better to be safe than sorry).

As for the issue, I will leave it as this: there are some things I like better about DBR (easy quote feature), and some I like better about SBN (can easily see all posts on one page, can reply to front page articles, game threads are better). But I love both, and I certainly don't believe that SBN would kill our discussions.

But, as I said before, folks will either believe that or not. Feel free to disagree.

[OldPhiKap]

"him" is correct, and no offense taken (better to be safe than sorry).

As for the issue, I will leave it as this: there are some things I like better about DBR (easy quote feature), and some I like better about SBN (can easily see all posts on one page, can reply to front page articles, game threads are better). But I love both, and I certainly don't believe that SBN would kill our discussions.

But, as I said before, folks will either believe that or not. Feel free to disagree.

Thanks, Mr. CDu. I will wait to see what happens.

[DueBlevil]

I think some of the concerns are well-founded in the sense that the SBN sites are not designed to do exactly the same thing this board is. It *can* do everything this site does, but not necessarily as well. The content of SBN sites is driven by the site editors, not the users. Fanposts allow users to introduce their own ideas, but they are largely held off to the side (although many do generate 50-100 comments).

The content of DBR is driven by the users. The front page offers some articles, and some of them generate some discussion on the board; most do not. In fact, the main topics of discussion on the board usually do not really reflect the articles from the front page. For example, the current front page stories for today were about:

Kevin Ware healing
Joe Alleva update
DeCourcy's top 5 arenas
Duke helping tornado victims
Hairston case

The topics from this board that were commented on today (as of this moment) were about:

Curtis Beach
2013 NC Pro-Am
2013 NBA finals
2014 recruiting
Mason Plumlee interviews Bilas
APR
Dr. J's daughter
This thread
2013-2014 sched
Hairston case

What that means to me is that for an SBN-type site to be the most effective, the editors need to understand what topics will generate discussion and make sure those topics stay central to the site so that the users will remain engaged, because the editors of an SBN site play a much more prominent role in directing the content of the site than they do here. Do I trust the DBR editors to do that effectively when the switch is made? Mostly. I think the articles they come up with for the front page are usually pretty interesting and thought-provoking, though clearly they do not cover the entire breadth of what DBR posters are interested in discussing. But I do think the editors of DBR might have to make some adjustments.

And so, I guess, my argument is that the relative lack of Fanposts on SBN sites is actually evidence that the editors on SBN sites do a pretty good job of capturing the important topics. You may argue that our community is accustomed to a different style than SBN users, but I think at the same time, if you follow SBN sites, you will find that the users there are just as knowledgeable, entertaining, and invested in the site and their teams as the posters here at DBR. So I know that we can make it work. Not that we have a choice, I suppose.

Sorry, not trying to beat a dead horse.

[OldPhiKap]

I think some of the concerns are well-founded in the sense that the SBN sites are not designed to do exactly the same thing this board is. It *can* do everything this site does, but not necessarily as well. The content of SBN sites is driven by the site editors, not the users. Fanposts allow users to introduce their own ideas, but they are largely held off to the side (although many do generate 50-100 comments).

The content of DBR is driven by the users. The front page offers some articles, and some of them generate some discussion on the board; most do not. In fact, the main topics of discussion on the board usually do not really reflect the articles from the front page. For example, the current front page stories for today were about:

Kevin Ware healing
Joe Alleva update
DeCourcy's top 5 arenas
Duke helping tornado victims
Hairston case

The topics from this board that were commented on today (as of this moment) were about:

Curtis Beach
2013 NC Pro-Am
2013 NBA finals
2014 recruiting
Mason Plumlee interviews Bilas
APR
Dr. J's daughter
This thread
2013-2014 sched
Hairston case

What that means to me is that for an SBN-type site to be the most effective, the editors need to understand what topics will generate discussion and make sure those topics stay central to the site so that the users will remain engaged, because the editors of an SBN site play a much more prominent role in directing the content of the site than they do here. Do I trust the DBR editors to do that effectively when the switch is made? Mostly. I think the articles they come up with for the front page are usually pretty interesting and thought-provoking, though clearly they do not cover the entire breadth of what DBR posters are interested in discussing. But I do think the editors of DBR might have to make some adjustments.

And so, I guess, my argument is that the relative lack of Fanposts on SBN sites is actually evidence that the editors on SBN sites do a pretty good job of capturing the important topics. You may argue that our community is accustomed to a different style than SBN users, but I think at the same time, if you follow SBN sites, you will find that the users there are just as knowledgeable, entertaining, and invested in the site and their teams as the posters here at DBR. So I know that we can make it work. Not that we have a choice, I suppose.

Sorry, not trying to beat a dead horse.

Excellent post. This also captures part of my concern.

Currently, we have a user-driven platform that is moderated. The SBN sites appear to be an administrator-driven platform that has user input. Very different. And quite a step in the wrong direction.

This is a very organic site, much like Cameron was back in the day. The crazies drove what happened. I don't want a cheer sheet from some administrators who choose what is "important" to discuss. Or wait to discuss something until there is an article to link and comment.

If I want to start a thread on Gene Banks, dammit, I want to start a thread on Gene Banks. And I will find a dozen knowledgeable posters to join the discussion and expand my own knowledge of his time at Duke. And if someone else wants to start a thread on any topic -- EK or Off-Topic -- it may grab my attention too.

Being a Duke fan means being creative and leading the charge, not reacting to what someone else thinks you should care about.

Screw The Man. Don't trust anyone over thirty. Get the Hell off my lawn. ES, Dean Smith, ES.

Yours truly, OPK

[Des Esseintes]

The fanpost section functions nearly exactly like the DBR boards do. Take it from an actual user. Just because there are fewer posts in some threads on some boards does not mean the the SBN isn't conducive to such conversation. That is just a function of that particular community. The BleedCubbieBlue forum, for example, does more of its conversing on the main page posts. That is just how they like it. Those threads usually get several hundred replies, just like ours. Trust me: that site isn't lacking for community or healthy debate.

Another thing to note. In the comments sections, new replies appear in a different color. So it is very easy to follow a conversation. This feature is only available to members of that site. So since you are not a member (and are thus unable to post) you wouldn't be able to see that.



Exactly. The format isn't going to kill the conversation. The community is strong such that we will be fine. I guess people are just terrified of anything different. But this board has endured multiple iterations, and each time a change was looming there were cries that the community discussion would be killed by the change. And yet, each time, the conversation has survived. There is nonreason to think this will be different.

You're right that the fanpost sections function similarly to the DBR boards--but only in a vacuum. I think it's telling that none of the SBN sites referenced have robust fanpost sections even though they do everything you say. Fanposts are an auxiliary arm of these sites, a place where users can offer their own input in addition to the editor-supplied content. And that is completely different from the DBR board, which has massive user-generated traffic. The dinky sidesection of an SBN site that accommodates fanposts would be overwhelmed and bury worthy threads with incredible speed--or they would stop appearing. One or the other, because it's just not designed for dozens of the things to spring up in a given week and be allowed to breathe. A water pistol "functions" the same as a firehose, but that is a far cry from saying they can accomplish the same ends. I think there are real reasons for concern that a fundamental alteration of the DBR model toward editorial content and away from user content would damage the community. You've said, rightfully, that there have always been concerns about alterations to the board. But never before has the proposed change been to abandon the bulletin board format.

[CDu]

You're right that the fanpost sections function similarly to the DBR boards--but only in a vacuum. I think it's telling that none of the SBN sites referenced have robust fanpost sections even though they do everything you say. Fanposts are an auxiliary arm of these sites, a place where users can offer their own input in addition to the editor-supplied content. And that is completely different from the DBR board, which has massive user-generated traffic. The dinky sidesection of an SBN site that accommodates fanposts would be overwhelmed and bury worthy threads with incredible speed--or they would stop appearing. One or the other, because it's just not designed for dozens of the things to spring up in a given week and be allowed to breathe. A water pistol "functions" the same as a firehose, but that is a far cry from saying they can accomplish the same ends. I think there are real reasons for concern that a fundamental alteration of the DBR model toward editorial content and away from user content would damage the community. You've said, rightfully, that there have always been concerns about alterations to the board. But never before has the proposed change been to abandon the bulletin board format.

I disagree. Note that a fanposts link on the main page can redirect you to a separate page devoted solely to fanposts, which is exactly like what we have here. Most of the sites ALSO present fanposts on the main page, but as you said they get pushed to the side and are thus not optimally viewed from the main page. If there wasn't a way to view the fanpost section on a separate page, I would agree.

I suspect that the reason folks don't post as much on fanposts is because those communities aren't used to that approach. For a community-driven discussion group like DBR, the use of a separate page for fanpost discussion is very familiar. And if they treat the fanposts like they treat the EK and OT boards (i.e., viewing them on separate pages from the main page), then I don't see us having much trouble with the transition.

[Reilly]

... a very organic site, much like Cameron was back in the day. The crazies drove what happened. I don't want a cheer sheet from some administrators who choose what is "important" to discuss. ... Screw The Man. Don't trust anyone over thirty. Get the Hell off my lawn. ES, Dean Smith, ES. ....

The new site will have a head post monitor, and a pretty simple 14-page instruction packet to ensure fairness. Make sure you check in at the random post checks (don't worry, I know a moderator and will alert you). If you want to talk about Gene Banks, you and at least six friends (but no more than 10) can register as a group, and you'll be issued a wrist band, and then you can then talk about Gene Banks. It will be FUN! Nothing will be missed!! [Please don't use 'Tinkerbell', however, as it's not really cool to say that any more.]

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

The new site will have a head post monitor, and a pretty simple 14-page instruction packet to ensure fairness. Make sure you check in at the random post checks (don't worry, I know a moderator and will alert you). If you want to talk about Gene Banks, you and at least six friends (but no more than 10) can register as a group, and you'll be issued a wrist band, and then you can then talk about Gene Banks. It will be FUN! Nothing will be missed!! [Please don't use 'Tinkerbell', however, as it's not really cool to say that any more.]

Oh, my! I had to go back and reread this. What if you want to talk TO Gene Banks, do you have to sign up in a group?

[OldPhiKap]

The new site will have a head post monitor, and a pretty simple 14-page instruction packet to ensure fairness. Make sure you check in at the random post checks (don't worry, I know a moderator and will alert you). If you want to talk about Gene Banks, you and at least six friends (but no more than 10) can register as a group, and you'll be issued a wrist band, and then you can then talk about Gene Banks. It will be FUN! Nothing will be missed!! [Please don't use 'Tinkerbell', however, as it's not really cool to say that any more.]

If you tell me that folks don't go tunneling or doming any more, I will weep copious tears for the lost youth of today.

My first trip to Perkins, no joke, was to go to the archives and research the construction plans of West Campus to find info on the tunnels. East Campus was much easier and very obvious.

[Reilly]

... research the construction plans of West Campus to find info on the tunnels. ...

Senior year, after a robust Hideaway session, one of those potato cellar doors is seen ... surely, this must be an entry to the famed tunnels ... our enterprising sleuths enter and take the plunge .... they right themselves after the tumble down the chute to find themselves .... in a basement laundry, with a co-ed looking more annoyed than bemused and at the goofs who've interrupted her clothes folding ....

[OldPhiKap]

Senior year, after a robust Hideaway session, one of those potato cellar doors is seen ... surely, this must be an entry to the famed tunnels ... our enterprising sleuths enter and take the plunge .... they right themselves after the tumble down the chute to find themselves .... in a basement laundry, with a co-ed looking more annoyed than bemused and at the goofs who've interrupted her clothes folding ....

But did someone at least get her number? Adventure comes in many forms.

[gep]

I don't frequent many different boards... but for this board, what I find MOST important is the "New" button. I log in from 3 computers and my iPhone. I always press the "New" button, and immediately get to the next unread post (for me) no matter which computer I use. Invaluable...

[Kedsy]

The new site will have a head post monitor, and a pretty simple 14-page instruction packet to ensure fairness. Make sure you check in at the random post checks (don't worry, I know a moderator and will alert you). If you want to talk about Gene Banks, you and at least six friends (but no more than 10) can register as a group, and you'll be issued a wrist band, and then you can then talk about Gene Banks. It will be FUN! Nothing will be missed!! [Please don't use 'Tinkerbell', however, as it's not really cool to say that any more.]

Well, there's back in the day and there's back in the day. None of this stuff was going on when I first ventured into Cameron.

[DevilAlumna]

I think we're losing sight of the real issue, here. What of Jason Evans' post count?

And will BillyBreen's account survive a transition? ;)

Put me down as a vote for keeping the boards, all of them. (I wouldn't have found out about this thread, if it hadn't come up in the LTE.)

[WiJoe]

The new site will have a head post monitor, and a pretty simple 14-page instruction packet to ensure fairness. Make sure you check in at the random post checks (don't worry, I know a moderator and will alert you). If you want to talk about Gene Banks, you and at least six friends (but no more than 10) can register as a group, and you'll be issued a wrist band, and then you can then talk about Gene Banks. It will be FUN! Nothing will be missed!! [Please don't use 'Tinkerbell', however, as it's not really cool to say that any more.]

yeah. "pretty simple" 14-page ...

sure.

no sweat.

$&%#

[OldPhiKap]

The new site will have a head post monitor, and a pretty simple 14-page instruction packet to ensure fairness. Make sure you check in at the random post checks (don't worry, I know a moderator and will alert you). If you want to talk about Gene Banks, you and at least six friends (but no more than 10) can register as a group, and you'll be issued a wrist band, and then you can then talk about Gene Banks. It will be FUN! Nothing will be missed!! [Please don't use 'Tinkerbell', however, as it's not really cool to say that any more.]

Instead of this, can't we just turn the site over to the BOGgers? That worked pretty well.

[matt1]

I am on many different message boards and websites. I feel that the board type works better than comments, as it allows people to make their own topics. I wonder what would happen to Off Topic threads if we switched over to a comment format.

[OldPhiKap]

And will BillyBreen's account survive a transition? ;)

Put me down as a vote for keeping the boards, all of them. (I wouldn't have found out about this thread, if it hadn't come up in the LTE.)

There are many great posters who, by and large, live on the off-topic board and do not seem to venture over to EK that often (or at least don't post).

LTE is a community onto itself.

[CDu]

I am on many different message boards and websites. I feel that the board type works better than comments, as it allows people to make their own topics. I wonder what would happen to Off Topic threads if we switched over to a comment format.

Not really an issue. The SBN site has a section for users to create their own topics and comment on them.

[OldPhiKap]

Not really an issue. The SBN site has a section for users to create their own topics and comment on them.

CDu, what is the best example of something that operates like the chat forums here? You seem very earnest in your view that this is not a big problem to switch, and I would like to believe that. I just have not seen an example that is close.

I think IC is close (although I do not like the forum layout And the lack of the "new" skip feature is annoying) but that seems to be different than the SBN sites I have visited.

And please, for the love of all that is holy, no return to the weird trunk line setup that DBR had eight or ten years ago -- I never chatted because the format was such a pain.

Again, thanks for any links. OPK

[CDu]

CDu, what is the best example of something that operates like the chat forums here? You seem very earnest in your view that this is not a big problem to switch, and I would like to believe that. I just have not seen an example that is close.

I think IC is close (although I do not like the forum layout And the lack of the "new" skip feature is annoying) but that seems to be different than the SBN sites I have visited.

And please, for the love of all that is holy, no return to the weird trunk line setup that DBR had eight or ten years ago -- I never chatted because the format was such a pain.

Again, thanks for any links. OPK

You mean like the SNRUB chats? Or like our EK board? The fanpost page operates similar to our EK board. And most sites have game threads devoted specifically to in-game discussions. I actually like the game threads better because you can see all the comments (allows for better discussion).

[DueBlevil]

Yeah I think CDu's point all along has been that the fanposts have a similar function to the EK board. If you click on the "Fanpost" title, it will bring you to perhaps a more familiar format. For example, click to go to the page for Louisville's Fanposts (http://www.cardchronicle.com/fanposts) or Penn State's Fanposts (http://www.blackshoediaries.com/fanposts) and it will look pretty much the same as our board. Of course, there is less traffic and fewer posts because there is more discussion on the main stories, something that is not currently possible on DBR. Once you click on a story, it will look different than the message boards do here, but it's more a difference in form than it is in function.

[Farlan]

In answer to one possible aspect of this migration, yes, please do more to cover Duke football! The upward trend of the program is worth following. :D

Agree that more football would be great!

[gep]

Yeah I think CDu's point all along has been that the fanposts have a similar function to the EK board. If you click on the "Fanpost" title, it will bring you to perhaps a more familiar format. For example, click to go to the page for Louisville's Fanposts (http://www.cardchronicle.com/fanposts) or Penn State's Fanposts (http://www.blackshoediaries.com/fanposts) and it will look pretty much the same as our board. Of course, there is less traffic and fewer posts because there is more discussion on the main stories, something that is not currently possible on DBR. Once you click on a story, it will look different than the message boards do here, but it's more a difference in form than it is in function.

OK... but do they have the equivalent of the "NEW" button on DBR. I'd hate to have to scroll through the posts (the more, the more painful) just to get to the last post that I read...

[CDu]

OK... but do they have the equivalent of the "NEW" button on DBR. I'd hate to have to scroll through the posts (the more, the more painful) just to get to the last post that I read...

Yes, you can. You can sort by active threads. You can sort by newest threads. You can sort by most popular threads. It is fairly fexible.

Also, it tells you when new comments are posted on a particular fanpost. And when you open that fanpost, the new comments are highlighted yellow (old ones are white).

[devil84]

Yeah I think CDu's point all along has been that the fanposts have a similar function to the EK board. If you click on the "Fanpost" title, it will bring you to perhaps a more familiar format. For example, click to go to the page for Louisville's Fanposts (http://www.cardchronicle.com/fanposts) or Penn State's Fanposts (http://www.blackshoediaries.com/fanposts) and it will look pretty much the same as our board. Of course, there is less traffic and fewer posts because there is more discussion on the main stories, something that is not currently possible on DBR. Once you click on a story, it will look different than the message boards do here, but it's more a difference in form than it is in function.

I'm not really a fan of the first message being highlighted in a large, serifed font, then having to page down at least twice (passing huge amounts of white space, then the large, distracting links to the previous/next comment) to see the comments in a teeny, sans-serif font. The extra mousing/keystrokes to see the first comment is incredibly inefficient. Scrolling back to the first post is a pain (and yes, I do that frequently). I can deal with the font size/face differential, but I don't like the fact that the first post in the thread is somehow more important than the comments beneath it. It doesn't feel like a conversation. It feels like the initial post is shouted from a soapbox. Scrolling down past the white space, then links to the previous/next posts, gives the impression that the reader should move along instead of commenting. The tiny font of the comments doesn't add to the conversation aspect; it feels like they are secondary to the initial opinion, an aside for anyone to blurt out what's on their mind.

I don't have a problem with that format, mind you. It's great for a certain kind of chatter -- short bursts of a lot of what we might deem as "needless posts" (+1, ditto, etc.). Sure there is some good discussion that could take place, but lengthy, content laden discussions look few and far between based on what I've seen. There is a reason why I don't frequent those kinds of boards and instead spend an inordinate amount of time on DBR -- a site designed for discussion. I'm just not one that likes a series of blurts, particularly when it takes several keystrokes to get to the first blurt. (I know that you're supposed to be able to press "C" to go to the next comment, but it's just not working for me. Maybe it's because I'm not logged in?) But even a message board format doesn't guarantee civilized, coherent, intelligent discussion. I've seen a substantial number of unreadable message boards on a wide variety of topics, like, oh, one that might be familiar to most of us on this board: IC?!

Like -jk, I worry about how SBN comments will scale to the traffic we generate. Because it seems to be very difficult to find an SBN fanboard with the traffic we have, I'm wondering if it's the intrinsic design that keeps commenting traffic down (IMHO as someone who designs user interfaces, I think it's very probable). I'm also certain that DBR's traffic is substantial due to the community that we work very hard to cultivate. I think that community building is easier to do with a message board format where the threads are featured as conversations, instead of a series of blog posts on which one must intentionally navigate down past links directing one elsewhere to read or leave comments. Both are models have their place, but I think the DBR community is a conversation-driven community, not a blog-type of community.

[Jarhead]

Even if things are similar in the new environment, what will happen with our collective identities? Some of us know the other posters personally, but if the "comments" don't carry the user names with which we are familiar, I see problems ahead. For me this is distressing, but there have been other times just as bad. I almost got involved with crazietalk, but it seemed contrived, and the format confused me. I tried the site called "we beg to differ" which didn't impress me a bit. I was pi--ed when the Public Policy forum shut down, and I now think of moderators as something like umpires and referees. You know -- the kind with the black an white stripes that we complain about all of the time around here.

Now I will wait and see about the new setup, and I'll make a judgment one way or another. I may have to rely on ESPN or the News and Disturber for info on Duke. Yeah, right. GoDuke.com can fill some of any new void, perhaps, but I won't count on it. I hope that when the lights go out at the DBR we don't lose contact.

[CDu]

Even if things are similar in the new environment, what will happen with our collective identities? Some of us know the other posters personally, but if the "comments" don't carry the user names with which we are familiar, I see problems ahead. For me this is distressing, but there have been other times just as bad. I almost got involved with crazietalk, but it seemed contrived, and the format confused me. I tried the site called "we beg to differ" which didn't impress me a bit. I was pi--ed when the Public Policy forum shut down, and I now think of moderators as something like umpires and referees. You know -- the kind with the black an white stripes that we complain about all of the time around here.

Now I will wait and see about the new setup, and I'll make a judgment one way or another. I may have to rely on ESPN or the News and Disturber for info on Duke. Yeah, right. GoDuke.com can fill some of any new void, perhaps, but I won't count on it. I hope that when the lights go out at the DBR we don't lose contact.

First, you get to pick your own username. So odds are good that you will get to keep your name. But in the event that someone already has your name, you can always put your DBR name in your signature line.

[Dev11]

The one thing I don't like about DBR is that I have to go to a new page for every 40 comments, and it doesn't update comments live, the way that SBN does. If we could incorporate that aspect of SBN, I think this site would be a lot easier to read (and refresh, for those of us using mobile).

[weezie]

First, you get to pick your own username. So odds are good that you will get to keep your name. But in the event that someone already has your name, you can always put your DBR name in your signature line.

Ugh, now I'm really anxious! D'ya think there are tons of weezies (small case) lurking out there ready to steal my awesome thunder?!!!! :eek:

[Dev11]

Ugh, now I'm really anxious! D'ya think there are tons of weezies (small case) lurking out there ready to steal my awesome thunder?!!!! :eek:

If its any consolation, I have managed to retain 'Dev11' across a few different platforms.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Ugh, now I'm really anxious! D'ya think there are tons of weezies (small case) lurking out there ready to steal my awesome thunder?!!!! :eek:

I understand .... don't want anyone stealing my identity either!;)

[devil84]

The good news is that our administrators working hard to keep the current board setup. Only the front page would change, if technology permits.

Meanwhile, I'll look into real-time updates to the page. On my computer, when I get to the end of the thread, pressing F5 refreshes the page, keeping you at your current location and adds the new posts (or adds the next page link to the bottom). The on-demand refreshing and "only" 40 posts at a time doesn't bother me. I kind of like keeping my network traffic to a minimum when I'm streaming the game. I'll update myself during timeouts. Those are the only threads that change frequently.

If you really want real-time updates during games, I'd recommend a chatroom like Snrubchat or Section 21. Why? It's a tool designed for real time comments. Nobody really wants to read a permanent record of what's happening during the game, as many posts lose their context even 2 minutes later ("3!!!!!!" or "Can Hess make a worse call?"). Even better, you can vent until your heart's content, even using language that would be wankerized here. You can say what you want without a permanent record of what you've said (unless your friends cut and paste your rantings, of course).

As far a cell phones go, we're going to keep it as data-plan friendly as we can. For those of us who frequent Cameron and don't have the ability to get on their WiFi, we want to keep the data as light as possible and on-demand. Also understand that we are customizing off-the-shelf forum software. It's very flexible and highly customizable, but we still have to work within their framework.

Hope this helps explain things.

[Dev11]

I'd recommend a chatroom like Snrubchat or Section 21.

I've had trouble accessing Snrubchat and don't know where to find Section 21. Can you point me? I'll back down.

[OldPhiKap]

Section 21 rocks. Although Chatbot hates me.

[devil84]

I've had trouble accessing Snrubchat and don't know where to find Section 21. Can you point me? I'll back down.

OK, my first instinct was to point you to the stickied "FAQ, NCAA Compliance, TV Coverage, Game Chat, '9F'" (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3217-FAQ-NCAA-Compliance-TV-Coverage-Game-Chat-quot-9F-quot-NBA) thread, but I see that we don't have a link to Section 21 (http://www.crazietalk.net/chat/) in there. Generally speaking, someone will post it in the in-game threads. I've got a note to add it to the FAQ (which may or may not be overhauled before next season, so don't go looking for it just yet!). If there are any other real-time discussion technologies where DBR folks occupy their time during games, they'll probably be in the in-game thread right around tip off time or shortly thereafter.

[Dev11]

OK, my first instinct was to point you to the stickied "FAQ, NCAA Compliance, TV Coverage, Game Chat, '9F'" (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3217-FAQ-NCAA-Compliance-TV-Coverage-Game-Chat-quot-9F-quot-NBA) thread, but I see that we don't have a link to Section 21 (http://www.crazietalk.net/chat/) in there. Generally speaking, someone will post it in the in-game threads. I've got a note to add it to the FAQ (which may or may not be overhauled before next season, so don't go looking for it just yet!). If there are any other real-time discussion technologies where DBR folks occupy their time during games, they'll probably be in the in-game thread right around tip off time or shortly thereafter.

Thanks. I've been through all the stickied material many times (is throatybeard ever going to update his guide? It seems a tad outdated...).

[Jarhead]

Oh, yeah, another thing. How will we handle the traditional Duke vs Kentucky threads? Many of us like to stay up to date on the very important issue of barbecue in its many forms.

[devil84]

Oh, yeah, another thing. How will we handle the traditional Duke vs Kentucky threads? Many of us like to stay up to date on the very important issue of barbecue in its many forms.

With any luck, we'll get to keep the board as-is, complete with the ability to search the previous and numerous Duke vs. Kentucky threads (helpful for when one travels), as well as the many other terribly important threads (Ymmm...beer, Jason's movie reviews, etc.).

[TruBlu]

I understand .... don't want anyone stealing my identity either!;)

I had my identity stolen once. They called me two days later begging me to take it back.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Section 21 rocks. Although Chatbot hates me.
Well it's mutual. :)
Section 21 can rock, and it can have problems (all of which I have to solve, including getting chatbot to like OPK) but it is not flawless, just like any board, or any website.

As for DBR, I hope the mods that I love to loathe are able to work with Julian and any other powers that be and keep this board up and running in at least some semblance of how it exists now. When we started CTN, we had this board very much in mind as something we wanted to model after. (We just enjoy being wankers without being called wankers.)

I have no interest in signing on to a new board with an old identity, I enjoy the fandom that we have on this one, the intelligence, and the family that exists on both. Work hard, mods, make it happen.

[devildeac]

I've had trouble accessing Snrubchat and don't know where to find Section 21. Can you point me? I'll back down.

Lookie here:

For general drivel: http://crazietalk.net/

For (sometimes? often?) profane drivel in chat/Section 21: http://www.crazietalk.net/chat/\

After some malware problems several months ago, CB&B has sterilized the site and has it darn near warning free (except, of course, when OPK is in Section 21 with us. ChatBot really does hate him:o)

[OldPhiKap]

After some malware problems several months ago, CB&B has sterilized the site and has it darn near warning free (except, of course, when OPK is in Section 21 with us. ChatBot really does hate him:o)

ChatBot can't handle The Truth.

[OldPhiKap]

I am hoping that no news is good news?

[-jk]

I am hoping that no news is good news?

These things take time.

-jk

[ricks68]

Lookie here:

For general drivel: http://crazietalk.net/

For (sometimes? often?) profane drivel in chat/Section 21: http://www.crazietalk.net/chat/\

After some malware problems several months ago, CB&B has sterilized the site and has it darn near warning free (except, of course, when OPK is in Section 21 with us. ChatBot really does hate him:o)

I just checked the first link out and have only one big question: Is that a paper plane shoved up Ozzie's nose or what????:confused:

ricks

[Indoor66]

I just checked the first link out and have only one big question: Is that a paper plane shoved up Ozzie's nose or what????:confused:

ricks

It is an optimism stick. :cool:

[OldPhiKap]

I just checked the first link out and have only one big question: Is that a paper plane shoved up Ozzie's nose or what????:confused:

ricks

It is a goatee on his mustache. Or a pony tail. Not sure.

[devildeac]

I just checked the first link out and have only one big question: Is that a paper plane shoved up Ozzie's nose or what????:confused:

ricks

Interesting observation. It's actually the center "triangle" in the letter "A."

[CameronBornAndBred]

Interesting observation. It's actually the center "triangle" in the letter "A."
And DD is the "dot". :cool: