Battier, dirty player?

[dukechem]

I haven’t seen any discussion of this on the board and am curious to hear what others think or know. I’m a long time lurker but rarely post.

SI.com has the results of a poll of 146 NBA players, and Shane Battier was listed as the 13th dirtiest player in the NBA (Gerald Henderson was listed as the 6th dirtiest.) We all hold Shane in high regard here so where is this coming from? I don’t watch NBA games so I’ve not seen him play except for a minute or two here and there while flipping channels. I did see something in the paper about an Indiana player accusing Battier of dirty play, and that’s where I found the reference to the SI.com poll.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.dirtiest.player/content.13.html

[sagegrouse]

I haven’t seen any discussion of this on the board and am curious to hear what others think or know. I’m a long time lurker but rarely post.

SI.com has the results of a poll of 146 NBA players, and Shane Battier was listed as the 13th dirtiest player in the NBA (Gerald Henderson was listed as the 6th dirtiest.) We all hold Shane in high regard here so where is this coming from? I don’t watch NBA games so I’ve not seen him play except for a minute or two here and there while flipping channels. I did see something in the paper about an Indiana player accusing Battier of dirty play, and that’s where I found the reference to the SI.com poll.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.dirtiest.player/content.13.html

Sounds like high praise to me. Defense is "dirty work."

WRT Gerald Henderson's being #6: How did the Hansbrough family get so many votes?

sagegrouse

[Newton_14]

I haven’t seen any discussion of this on the board and am curious to hear what others think or know. I’m a long time lurker but rarely post.

SI.com has the results of a poll of 146 NBA players, and Shane Battier was listed as the 13th dirtiest player in the NBA (Gerald Henderson was listed as the 6th dirtiest.) We all hold Shane in high regard here so where is this coming from? I don’t watch NBA games so I’ve not seen him play except for a minute or two here and there while flipping channels. I did see something in the paper about an Indiana player accusing Battier of dirty play, and that’s where I found the reference to the SI.com poll.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.dirtiest.player/content.13.html

Rightly or wrongly, I have always defined "dirty" as attempts to injure another player, continuously use excessive force when unnecessary, or sneak in a punch or elbow when you think the ref isn't looking. (Which is I why I felt Chris Paul was one of the dirtiest players in the ACC during his two seasons at Wake). I am biased of course but I do not find Shane or Gerald to be dirty players in the NBA. Have seen Shane play more often than Gerald to this point obviously. I did see Shane pull a few questionable moves in the Chicago series, one of which was laying on Noah after the ball was headed the other direction to not let him up as quickly as Noah wanted to get up, the other was grabbing Hanswalk's arm in the lane after a rebound scrum. He pulled him out of bounds actuallly. That play of course was fair game given who it was.

Shane is famous for the move of covering the shooters eyes with his hand during jumpshot attempts but to me that is crafty not dirty. He has never poked a guy in the eye with that move that I am aware of.

Haters gonna hate though and being a current or former Dukie will by default get one on many different lists of this nature. I would categorize Shane as the smartest/craftiest player in the league. He is certainly no Bill Lambier or Dennis Rodman of those dirty as hell Pistons team's of the late 80's.

[weezie]

David West is a big, fat crybaby.

lol, I saw Shane toweling off LeBron during a timeout. Would a dirty player be so considerate of his fellow hoopsters?!
I think not.

Battier for President!

[jdj4duke]

Battier is smart, clever, and is one of the best ever at studying and planning for opponents. The fact that he anticipates a great deal, if not most, of the things they do I think must be incredibly frustrating. Battier drives opponents to desperation since he is like the proverbial itch that never stops. I would posit that since is seldom "beaten" or out of position, and therefore in constant proximity and contact with whom he's guarding, the reaction from opponents is that Battier "gets away with murder" or is dirty because he is always on (my) I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.. I also think that reaction is especially pronounced from those who are used to overpowering or running by other defenders since their usual "go to" moves hardly ever work against Battier. He already knows what the opponent is going to do.

Therefore, since nothing really works against Battier, there must be something illegal, or dirty, or in violation of the rules being done. Classic whiner response- "I am used to getting my way, and now I can't, so somebody is doing something wrong." Seriously, Battier must drive most of these guys insane, and not by doing anything dirty.

[FerryFor50]

Battier is smart, clever, and is one of the best ever at studying and planning for opponents. The fact that he anticipates a great deal, if not most, of the things they do I think must be incredibly frustrating. Battier drives opponents to desperation since he is like the proverbial itch that never stops. I would posit that since is seldom "beaten" or out of position, and therefore in constant proximity and contact with whom he's guarding, the reaction from opponents is that Battier "gets away with murder" or is dirty because he is always on (my) I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.. I also think that reaction is especially pronounced from those who are used to overpowering or running by other defenders since their usual "go to" moves hardly ever work against Battier. He already knows what the opponent is going to do.

Therefore, since nothing really works against Battier, there must be something illegal, or dirty, or in violation of the rules being done. Classic whiner response- "I am used to getting my way, and now I can't, so somebody is doing something wrong." Seriously, Battier must drive most of these guys insane, and not by doing anything dirty.

Yep. And the same guys whining are awfully physical themselves. Can dish it out but can't take it...

[Turk]

Rightly or wrongly, I have always defined "dirty" as attempts to injure another player, continuously use excessive force when unnecessary, or sneak in a punch or elbow when you think the ref isn't looking. (Which is I why I felt Chris Paul was one of the dirtiest players in the ACC during his two seasons at Wake). I am biased of course but I do not find Shane or Gerald to be dirty players in the NBA. Have seen Shane play more often than Gerald to this point obviously. I did see Shane pull a few questionable moves in the Chicago series, one of which was laying on Noah after the ball was headed the other direction to not let him up as quickly as Noah wanted to get up, the other was grabbing Hanswalk's arm in the lane after a rebound scrum. He pulled him out of bounds actuallly. That play of course was fair game given who it was.

Shane is famous for the move of covering the shooters eyes with his hand during jumpshot attempts but to me that is crafty not dirty. He has never poked a guy in the eye with that move that I am aware of.


That's a pretty good definition - in other words, a cheap shot with no basketball value whatsoever. What is often called dirty is really a subgenre of the game called "old man ball" (I am fast becoming an expert my ownself). Those of us "of a certain age" now need every little hold, nudge, grab, or distraction we can create to get inside the heads of our younger, stronger, faster opponents and stay competitive. For example, if I can lock the opponent's arm between my elbow and ribcage, she's gonna have a hard time getting any rebounds. And I stopped playing in leagues with refs several years ago, so fouling out is not a concern either.

As for the pros, I see DWade walking that fine line between cheap shots and old man ball these past few years. He's been getting more and more chippy. Also, Stockton used to have a similar rep, in contrast with his stoic on-court demeanor.

[miramar]

Bradley never made it to Duke since he was somehow kidnapped by Princeton, but when John havlicek's jersey was retired by the Celtics a lot of people thought that it would have been more accurate to include Bradley's hand grabbing the shirt. It just goes to show you that smart players know the tricks of the trade, which in Shane's case is a long way from dirty. Shane didn't even play last night so I guess the Pacers will have to find another excuse.