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Atlanta Duke
05-31-2013, 04:45 PM
The rant by (soon to be former?) Ohio State president Gordon Gee has initially been showcased for shots at Notre Dame and the SEC

Sports Illustrated has a link to the entire audio, which includes some comments by Gee that confirm suspicions the Big Ten was contemplating the destruction of the ACC when Gee's comments were made late in 2012.

Among other nuggets

"The addition of Maryland and Rutgers to the Big Ten] gives us 40 to 50 million more viewers, makes the BTN worth more money than God. I did say that. It’s a very powerful instrument for us.”

“The blocking strategy is that we simply have now put the ACC in an almost no-win position. So who do they immediately go to? Louisville. They may think about Cincinnati. They may think about Connecticut. But they’ve lost their foothold in that middle part of the area, in that middle part of the Atlantic coast."

“I think the Big Ten needs to be predatory and positive rather than waiting for other people to take away from them."...

“I also think this. This is a high possibility. If the ACC continues to struggle, and Florida State goes off to the SEC or something like that, and Clemson moves in a different direction, all of a sudden Virginia and Duke, which are very similar institutions to — and North Carolina — which are very similar institutions to the Big Ten, there is a real possibility that we may end up having that kind of T which goes south. And I could see them joining us. And I could see them having a real interest in joining us.”

http://college-football.si.com/2013/05/31/ohio-state-gordon-gee-controversial-comments/?sct=hp_t11_a6&eref=sihp

John Swofford had a different plan

sagegrouse
05-31-2013, 05:04 PM
“I also think this. This is a high possibility. If the ACC continues to struggle, and Florida State goes off to the SEC or something like that, and Clemson moves in a different direction, all of a sudden Virginia and Duke, which are very similar institutions to — and North Carolina — which are very similar institutions to the Big Ten, there is a real possibility that we may end up having that kind of T which goes south. And I could see them joining us. And I could see them having a real interest in joining us.” [/I]

http://college-football.si.com/2013/05/31/ohio-state-gordon-gee-controversial-comments/?sct=hp_t11_a6&eref=sihp

John Swofford had a different plan

This confirms what Ol' Sage Grouse opined at the time of the last shuffle: Duke is very attractive to the Big Ten. in fact, note the afterthought that UNC became, coming into view only after UVa and Duke were mentioned. Rich! This would be the first time I've been right since.... well... whenever. OTOH Gordon Gee's credibility is sinking pretty fast.

sage

Here is a Turtle
05-31-2013, 05:14 PM
This is what Gee does. He makes dumb comments like this relatively frequently.

Duvall
05-31-2013, 05:18 PM
This confirms what Ol' Sage Grouse opined at the time of the last shuffle: Duke is very attractive to the Big Ten. in fact, note the afterthought that UNC became, coming into view only after UVa and Duke were mentioned. Rich! This would be the first time I've been right since.... well... whenever.

Well, maybe. Remember that Gee's remarks were to the Ohio State Athletics Council, a university group. A speech to a group of football boosters might have included a different set of potential schools.

Buckeye Devil
06-01-2013, 08:10 AM
In spite of his recent remarks which follow on the heels of "Little Sisters of the Poor" and remarks about the Polish Army, it would be surprising to see Gee get the boot. Personally, I think the worst thing in the December episode (this happened 6 months ago) was the detrimental remark about Catholics and trustworthiness.

I think there is some animosity towards ND from Big 10 fans due to previous snubs regarding joining the league from a football perspective. I think the perception is that ND felt itself too good and proud yet had no trouble playing UM, MSU, and Purdue yearly, as well as other Big 10 teams over the years. I always felt like these schools gave ND the best of both worlds and now it looks like the ACC is going to do it again. ND has had one relevant year (last season) in the past 20 or so. Are the Irish are back to stay? Who knows? Maybe Gee's remarks were an ill-fated attempt to express the mood of a lot of Big 10 fans towards ND. ND is in the rearview mirror of the Big 10 and Gee (as well as many Big 10 fans) should have recognized it and let it go. He created an unnecessary disturbance over an irrelevant subject.

Past ND, what did he really say that a lot of other people haven't thought but never said publicly? How many people that think the SEC is an academically stalwart league? I have to agree with him that the Big 10 screwed up royally by not going after Missouri and Kansas. As a Duke basketball fan I thought his comments about UK were funny. Nevertheless, he should have learned by now that anything he says can and will be held against him. People are lying in wait for him to screw up and it seems he never fails to add fuel to the smoldering embers.

johnb
06-01-2013, 10:35 AM
In spite of his recent remarks which follow on the heels of "Little Sisters of the Poor" and remarks about the Polish Army, it would be surprising to see Gee get the boot. Personally, I think the worst thing in the December episode (this happened 6 months ago) was the detrimental remark about Catholics and trustworthiness.

I think there is some animosity towards ND from Big 10 fans due to previous snubs regarding joining the league from a football perspective. I think the perception is that ND felt itself too good and proud yet had no trouble playing UM, MSU, and Purdue yearly, as well as other Big 10 teams over the years. I always felt like these schools gave ND the best of both worlds and now it looks like the ACC is going to do it again. ND has had one relevant year (last season) in the past 20 or so. Are the Irish are back to stay? Who knows? Maybe Gee's remarks were an ill-fated attempt to express the mood of a lot of Big 10 fans towards ND. ND is in the rearview mirror of the Big 10 and Gee (as well as many Big 10 fans) should have recognized it and let it go. He created an unnecessary disturbance over an irrelevant subject.

Past ND, what did he really say that a lot of other people haven't thought but never said publicly? How many people that think the SEC is an academically stalwart league? I have to agree with him that the Big 10 screwed up royally by not going after Missouri and Kansas. As a Duke basketball fan I thought his comments about UK were funny. Nevertheless, he should have learned by now that anything he says can and will be held against him. People are lying in wait for him to screw up and it seems he never fails to add fuel to the smoldering embers.

College presidents have a different role, and they are expected to answer to different constituents while also being a model for a spectrum of people.

The wholesale jibes at the Sec and Louisville are also jibes at 90% of the colleges in this country, and, by extension, at 90% of college students. His mockery of priests is something I wouldn't expect from a friend much less a leader at a podium. While not Catholic myself, the history of anti-Catholic bias in this country is fresh. Perhaps Coach K might like to comment, and he might, except for the fact that--as a leader--he holds back from such comments. Regarding institutional snobbery, how many Dukies consider Ohio State to be elite? From the whole Big 10, the typical Duke student might have applied to a home state school and possibly Michigan or Purdue (if an engineer). But, of course, as Gee surely knows, there are kids at Iowa and Louisville and Alabama who would rock out at places like Duke and Brown (one of his former gigs).

Anyway, Gee should go...

sagegrouse
06-01-2013, 11:05 AM
I think there is some animosity towards ND from Big 10 fans due to previous snubs regarding joining the league from a football perspective. I think the perception is that ND felt itself too good and proud yet had no trouble playing UM, MSU, and Purdue yearly, as well as other Big 10 teams over the years. I always felt like these schools gave ND the best of both worlds and now it looks like the ACC is going to do it again. ND has had one relevant year (last season) in the past 20 or so. Are the Irish are back to stay? Who knows? Maybe Gee's remarks were an ill-fated attempt to express the mood of a lot of Big 10 fans towards ND. ND is in the rearview mirror of the Big 10 and Gee (as well as many Big 10 fans) should have recognized it and let it go. He created an unnecessary disturbance over an irrelevant subject.

Past ND, what did he really say that a lot of other people haven't thought but never said publicly? How many people that think the SEC is an academically stalwart league? I have to agree with him that the Big 10 screwed up royally by not going after Missouri and Kansas. As a Duke basketball fan I thought his comments about UK were funny. Nevertheless, he should have learned by now that anything he says can and will be held against him. People are lying in wait for him to screw up and it seems he never fails to add fuel to the smoldering embers.


The Big Ten had 20-30 years to invite Notre Dame to join, when such a move would have helped both the Big Ten and Notre Dame. It did not, and the belief at Notre Dame was that there was bias toward a Catholic university. And, of course, that was a different time and era: Indiana elected a Ku Klux Klan member as governor in the 1920's.

I would tend to believe that the resentment toward ND refusing to join the Big Ten as a full member in recent years is more than outweighed by the long memories of the Notre Dame officials at past snubs. Here is a mild example from an Ann Arbor, Michigan reporter:


In 1910, when Michigan’s Fielding Yost accused Notre Dame of using ineligible players, he cut off the series. The tear grew bigger at a track meet in 1923, when Yost got into an explosive argument with Notre Dame’s Knute Rockne, over…the gap between the hurdles. (I’m not making this up.) Yost vowed to keep Notre Dame out of the Big Ten – and unfortunately for the league, he succeeded.

sagegrouse

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-01-2013, 11:46 AM
Granted I don't have a dog in this fight, but I finally heard the comments this morning on the radio, and from my perspective this is really a lot of huffing and puffing over nothing. Gee was speaking to a group of boosters/donors and made comments that the room seemed to find humrous. He wasn't speaking to the press or to some sort of panel of other university presidents. Was it smart to call out other universities, including making digs based on religion? Of course not. Would it be as big of a deal if it was a football coach chatting light-heartedly amongst big donors? Probably not. Would you be shocked to find that a Duke coach made some light-hearted jabs at other schools in an off-season event for fans and boosters? Maybe, but not outraged.

Was it conduct that's becoming of a university president? Not even close.

This guy clearly has an inflated sense of self, and also doesn't thing very carefully before he speaks. But if I'm an SEC alum/fan or a Golden Domer, I can't really gussy up any outrage over some off-the-cuff comments that got caught on someone's video 6 months ago unless I'm already feeling somehow persecuted or slighted.

Go Duke!

jimsumner
06-01-2013, 11:58 AM
Granted I don't have a dog in this fight, but I finally heard the comments this morning on the radio, and from my perspective this is really a lot of huffing and puffing over nothing. Gee was speaking to a group of boosters/donors and made comments that the room seemed to find humrous. He wasn't speaking to the press or to some sort of panel of other university presidents. Was it smart to call out other universities, including making digs based on religion? Of course not. Would it be as big of a deal if it was a football coach chatting light-heartedly amongst big donors? Probably not. Would you be shocked to find that a Duke coach made some light-hearted jabs at other schools in an off-season event for fans and boosters? Maybe, but not outraged.

Was it conduct that's becoming of a university president? Not even close.

This guy clearly has an inflated sense of self, and also doesn't thing very carefully before he speaks. But if I'm an SEC alum/fan or a Golden Domer, I can't really gussy up any outrage over some off-the-cuff comments that got caught on someone's video 6 months ago unless I'm already feeling somehow persecuted or slighted.

Go Duke!

But he was speaking in public and given that it is 2013 he had no expectation that his remarks would not become public. A university president saying what he said in public about Catholics seems like a fire-able offense to me.

Tripping William
06-01-2013, 12:16 PM
I wonder how Gee (a Mormon) would react if Cal's president said similar things as an explanation for why the Pac 8/10/12 never invited BYU to join.

Buckeye Devil
06-01-2013, 10:26 PM
The Big Ten had 20-30 years to invite Notre Dame to join, when such a move would have helped both the Big Ten and Notre Dame. It did not, and the belief at Notre Dame was that there was bias toward a Catholic university. And, of course, that was a different time and era: Indiana elected a Ku Klux Klan member as governor in the 1920's.

I would tend to believe that the resentment toward ND refusing to join the Big Ten as a full member in recent years is more than outweighed by the long memories of the Notre Dame officials at past snubs. Here is a mild example from an Ann Arbor, Michigan reporter:



sagegrouse

I think a more accurate statement would be that at times Big 10 has been interested in ND and at other times ND has been interested in joining the Big 10. They have never been interested in each other at the same time. A lot of the alleged Big 10 snubs came years ago and anti-Catholic bias probably played into it. More recently, the snub has come from ND. Back around 2000, the reasons for not pursuing membership basically came down to 3 reasons: being independent, Catholic, and private. A year or two ago the ND student senate created a resolution against joining the league citing that ND is a "national" university and the fact that ND is a Catholic institution. In other words, in spite of the fact that ND is in the center of Big 10 land, it saw itself as a broader based religious university that did not want to be perceived as a fly-over state institution.

Capn Poptart
06-03-2013, 08:02 PM
I thought the Grant of Rights deal could never seem more important. I was wrong.

Gee was willing to say about the ACC what Delaney and the rest of the B1G were discussing behind closed doors: their glee at the possibility of the destruction of the ACC.

"Predatory" indeed.

My view of John Swofford has flipped 180 degrees.

Chicago 1995
06-03-2013, 08:41 PM
Much of what Gee had to say was just inappropriate for a University President. The comments on Louisville, UK and the SEC generally show a lack of connection with reality that seems a regular occurrence for Gee.

It's not as though OSU's athletic programs hold their athletes to a higher standard than, well, anyone. Remember Andy Katzenmoyer? OSU's the one coming off probation, an probably got off too lightly.

Further, the Big Ten did take Nebraska, and there's not much difference between UNL and Louisville or UK.

Finally, it does seem unbecoming for the president of Ohio State generally to be throwing stones about academics. Her comes off sounding like he's at an Ivy, when OSU, at best, is firmly in the middle of the Big Ten academically.

It would be bad if Gee were making a bunch of off te record comments that were based in facts. That's he bought into all these delusions make it that much worse, to me. B

OldPhiKap
06-03-2013, 09:22 PM
Time to stop the ACC-Big ## Challenge. Screw them.

luvdahops
06-04-2013, 09:51 AM
Much of what Gee had to say was just inappropriate for a University President. The comments on Louisville, UK and the SEC generally show a lack of connection with reality that seems a regular occurrence for Gee.

It's not as though OSU's athletic programs hold their athletes to a higher standard than, well, anyone. Remember Andy Katzenmoyer? OSU's the one coming off probation, an probably got off too lightly.

Further, the Big Ten did take Nebraska, and there's not much difference between UNL and Louisville or UK.

Finally, it does seem unbecoming for the president of Ohio State generally to be throwing stones about academics. Her comes off sounding like he's at an Ivy, when OSU, at best, is firmly in the middle of the Big Ten academically.

It would be bad if Gee were making a bunch of off te record comments that were based in facts. That's he bought into all these delusions make it that much worse, to me. B

As an Ohio native, I couldn't agree with these comments more. tOSU is hardly an academic paragon, especially at the undergraduate level, and I would put them in the bottom third/quartile of Big Ten schools overall. And they have hardly held their athletic programs to high standards as it relates to either academics or ethics.

Class of '94
06-04-2013, 10:11 AM
I thought the Grant of Rights deal could never seem more important. I was wrong.

Gee was willing to say about the ACC what Delaney and the rest of the B1G were discussing behind closed doors: their glee at the possibility of the destruction of the ACC.

"Predatory" indeed.

My view of John Swofford has flipped 180 degrees.

To be honest, I am amazed at the arrogance of Gee and the AD at Ohio State. I remember reading links in late 2012/early 2013 where the OSU AD made veiled comments about the need for the BIG to be ready to absorb schools that could be availabe as realignment continued. He was hinting at certain ACC schools that could be available that would align with their goals of expanding down the east coast. I truly believe that the BIG (and MD) thought the ACC would implode and more ACC schools would be availble to (and join) the BIG. I think the GOR completely caught the BIG off guard and put a wrench in their expansion plans for the time being. For that, John Swofford deserves a lot of credit.

And as far as academics is concerned, am I wrong to say that Northwestern, University of Chicago and Michigan are the academic backbone of this conference in terms of academic prestige? Then you add Rutgers, MD, Penn St and possibly Mich St and U of Ill as a second tier of academic schools?

luvdahops
06-04-2013, 10:24 AM
To be honest, I am amazed at the arrogance of Gee and the AD at Ohio State. I remember reading links in late 2012/early 2013 where the OSU AD made veiled comments about the need for the BIG to be ready to absorb schools that could be availabe as realignment continued. He was hinting at certain ACC schools that could be available that would align with their goals of expanding down the east coast. I truly believe that the BIG (and MD) thought the ACC would implode and more ACC schools would be availble to (and join) the BIG. I think the GOR completely caught the BIG off guard and put a wrench in their expansion plans for the time being. For that, John Swofford deserves a lot of credit.

And as far as academics is concerned, am I wrong to say that Northwestern, University of Chicago and Michigan are the academic backbone of this conference in terms of academic prestige? Then you add Rutgers, MD, Penn St and possibly Mich St and U of Ill as a second tier of academic schools?

You overlooked Wisconsin. They and Illinois are probably closer to the top tier than the middle of the pack. Very well regarded public schools with national reps, especially in certain disciplines. Michigan State probably closer to the bottom, and behind the schools you mentioned and likely Indiana, Iowa, Purdue and possibly Minnesota. Most of the Big 10 schools are the flagship universities for their states, and get their share of the better local students due to value/cost and other considerations. That is not the case at all with Ohio State.

Mike Corey
06-04-2013, 10:27 AM
As an Ohio native, I couldn't agree with these comments more. tOSU is hardly an academic paragon, especially at the undergraduate level, and I would put them in the bottom third/quartile of Big Ten schools overall. And they have hardly held their athletic programs to high standards as it relates to either academics or ethics.

While President Gee has once again overstepped the bounds of decorum and thoughtfulness--by any measure, not just that of a University president--the piling on regarding OSU's academics is outdated. Its undergraduate program is steadily moving up the U.S. News rankings, and now sits 56th behind five Big Ten schools, and two SEC schools, Vanderbilt and Florida (54th). As a research institution, it has nearly doubled its R&D expenditures since 2004, up to $934 million, placing it competitively on a national scale. Similarly, despite the misdeeds of the past with the Andy Katzenmoyers of the world, the University's relationship with the athletic department has changed significantly. No, Ohio State's student-athletes are not of the same caliber generally as those of Ivy League schools; dramatic improvements have been made, however. Consider: For the year, Ohio State had a conference-best 327 Academic All-Big 10 honorees (61 fall (including 12 football), 75 winter), the only school to top 300 honorees for the second year in a row.

That does not make OSU an academic giant. But it also does not make OSU a dunce. Much of that progress has come under President Gee's stewardship.

luvdahops
06-04-2013, 10:40 AM
While President Gee has once again overstepped the bounds of decorum and thoughtfulness--by any measure, not just that of a University president--the piling on regarding OSU's academics is outdated. Its undergraduate program is steadily moving up the U.S. News rankings, and now sits 56th behind five Big Ten schools, and two SEC schools, Vanderbilt and Florida (54th). As a research institution, it has nearly doubled its R&D expenditures since 2004, up to $934 million, placing it competitively on a national scale. Similarly, despite the misdeeds of the past with the Andy Katzenmoyers of the world, the University's relationship with the athletic department has changed significantly. No, Ohio State's student-athletes are not of the same caliber generally as those of Ivy League schools; dramatic improvements have been made, however. Consider: For the year, Ohio State had a conference-best 327 Academic All-Big 10 honorees (61 fall (including 12 football), 75 winter), the only school to top 300 honorees for the second year in a row.

That does not make OSU an academic giant. But it also does not make OSU a dunce. Much of that progress has come under President Gee's stewardship.

I'm not sure the US News Rankings are very good barometer, as their flaws and limitations have been discussed ad nauseum on this board. I do not disagree that progress has made by tOSU in recent years as it relates to undergraduate education and the general conduct of their athletic programs. But we are taking about very low bars in both cases. And Ohio State is still well down the list of college preferences for most of the better students from the state. It is also well down the list of places that more prestigious employers in the region recruit from.

Mike Corey
06-04-2013, 11:06 AM
I'm not sure the US News Rankings are very good barometer, as their flaws and limitations have been discussed ad nauseum on this board. I do not disagree that progress has made by tOSU in recent years as it relates to undergraduate education and the general conduct of their athletic programs. But we are taking about very low bars in both cases. And Ohio State is still well down the list of college preferences for most of the better students from the state. It is also well down the list of places that more prestigious employers in the region recruit from.

I surely agree that U.S. News is not an ideal barometer, but it's worthwhile given this conversation. Others: the QS World University rankings put OSU 111th (Duke was 20th).

OSU's acceptance rate, for example, has dropped 10 percentage points in a decade and the number of applications has increased to nearly 30,000; the percentage of incoming students graduating in the top 10 percent of their class has increased from 33% a decade ago to 54% last year.

In Ohio, the only better option is Case Western; in-state students are looking to Ohio State more and more for undergraduate education. I, for one, looked elsewhere, but I would not begrudge a state institution for its top students preferring Ivy League schools to the flagship university.

As to professional recruitment: Ohio State comes in 12th in the Wall Street Journal's 2010 rankings of most sought after graduates, as rated by corporate recruiters. Smart Money magazine, in a comparison of tuition costs to graduate earning power, ranked Ohio State 11th nationally, with an average return of 179 percent on tuition investment. Ohio State posted the 12th strongest brand equity in the nation and 3rd among public universities in a recent survey, as well. The rankings measure the value derived from the public perception of a university’s brand name, using a mathematical model that encompasses traditional, web, and social media.

Further, OSU ranks third nationally in industry-sponsored R&D.

Again, OSU is no Duke. But it's not the school it once was, either, in practice or in reputation.

luvdahops
06-04-2013, 12:52 PM
I surely agree that U.S. News is not an ideal barometer, but it's worthwhile given this conversation. Others: the QS World University rankings put OSU 111th (Duke was 20th).

OSU's acceptance rate, for example, has dropped 10 percentage points in a decade and the number of applications has increased to nearly 30,000; the percentage of incoming students graduating in the top 10 percent of their class has increased from 33% a decade ago to 54% last year.

In Ohio, the only better option is Case Western; in-state students are looking to Ohio State more and more for undergraduate education. I, for one, looked elsewhere, but I would not begrudge a state institution for its top students preferring Ivy League schools to the flagship university.

As to professional recruitment: Ohio State comes in 12th in the Wall Street Journal's 2010 rankings of most sought after graduates, as rated by corporate recruiters. Smart Money magazine, in a comparison of tuition costs to graduate earning power, ranked Ohio State 11th nationally, with an average return of 179 percent on tuition investment. Ohio State posted the 12th strongest brand equity in the nation and 3rd among public universities in a recent survey, as well. The rankings measure the value derived from the public perception of a university’s brand name, using a mathematical model that encompasses traditional, web, and social media.

Further, OSU ranks third nationally in industry-sponsored R&D.

Again, OSU is no Duke. But it's not the school it once was, either, in practice or in reputation.

Sheesh - do you work for the Ohio State Marketing Department or something? You make a lot of valid points.

However, recent progress aside, I would guess that the majority of HS guidance counselors would still put OSU behind not only Case Western, but also Miami (public) and at least several of the smaller private liberal arts schools such as Kenyon, Denison and Wittenberg in terms of general academic prestige and quality of undergraduate education.

And I will admit that my comment on recruiting was through a very biased lens, focusing on professions such as management consulting, investment banking, private equity, hedge funds, etc. I can say with a high degree of confidence that very few firms in these fields recruit at Ohio State (while they do at UVa, Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA, etc., not to mention some of the other Ohio schools noted above). But that is obviously a very limited slice of the total employer universe.

Capn Poptart
06-04-2013, 01:14 PM
To be honest, I am amazed at the arrogance of Gee and the AD at Ohio State. I remember reading links in late 2012/early 2013 where the OSU AD made veiled comments about the need for the BIG to be ready to absorb schools that could be availabe as realignment continued. He was hinting at certain ACC schools that could be available that would align with their goals of expanding down the east coast. I truly believe that the BIG (and MD) thought the ACC would implode and more ACC schools would be availble to (and join) the BIG. I think the GOR completely caught the BIG off guard and put a wrench in their expansion plans for the time being. For that, John Swofford deserves a lot of credit.


I think even - maybe especially - ACC partisans were surprised by the GOR. Because of the webchatter that echoed and strengthened the webchatter that echoed and strengthened, etc.... It seemed self-fulfilling. The B1G (and a lot of other constituencies) were making plans for a foregone conclusion. In fact, it was often stated that way on (B1G, Maryland, SEC, WVU) message boards: "The breakup of the ACC is going to happen. It's just a matter of time."

Someone forgot to tell the ACC schools and Swofford.

Mike Corey
06-04-2013, 01:17 PM
Sheesh - do you work for the Ohio State Marketing Department or something? You make a lot of valid points. Nope. Just love my alma mater. :) I've had this conversation plenty of times with friends from Duke. Similarly, I've had to challenge many friends from OSU with their perceptions about Duke. I promise, I advocated Duke as firmly as I've tried to advocate OSU here.


However, recent progress aside, I would guess that the majority of HS guidance counselors would still put OSU behind not only Case Western, but also Miami (public) and at least several of the smaller private liberal arts schools such as Kenyon, Denison and Wittenberg in terms of general academic prestige and quality of undergraduate education. That may very well be true, but Ohio State's well ahead of Miami (Oh) now, can offer far more resources and classes, and the network is more extensive. Things are changing. With regard to the private schools, they draw well from Ohio but also more regionally; plus, Ohio State is decidedly less expensive. To elite students and not, that's increasingly more appealing. I will concede that if you want to be a creative writer, you should go to Kenyon, however. :)


And I will admit that my comment on recruiting was through a very biased lens, focusing on professions such as management consulting, investment banking, private equity, hedge funds, etc. I can say with a high degree of confidence that very few firms in these fields recruit at Ohio State (while they do at UVa, Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA, etc., not to mention some of the other Ohio schools noted above). But that is obviously a very limited slice of the total employer universe.

I will defer to your experienced take on that front. It will take time for OSU to earn a changed reputation in those and all fields. I'm confident that progress is being made, however.

To come full circle: When the president of the University embarrasses himself like this, it reflects poorly on the University and all of its alums. It makes it harder to change the perceptions, even when reality is changing.

I suspect that President Gee's time at OSU was already approaching its conclusion; I suspect this might expedite things, or confirm them.

Mike Corey
06-04-2013, 03:11 PM
Well. Gordon Gee has announced his "retirement" effective July 1.

roywhite
06-04-2013, 03:23 PM
Well. Gordon Gee has announced his "retirement" effective July 1.

Yeah, just heard that.

Here's a link from the Columbus Dispatch (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/06/ohio-state-president-gee.html).

BD80
06-04-2013, 03:24 PM
Well. Gordon Gee has announced his "retirement" effective July 1.


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... Gee Ya!

Devil in the Blue Dress
06-04-2013, 03:34 PM
Well. Gordon Gee has announced his "retirement" effective July 1.
Karma is now in residence at tOSU. :cool:

brevity
06-04-2013, 05:15 PM
Well. Gordon Gee has announced his "retirement" effective July 1.


Karma is now in residence at tOSU. :cool:

You say "karma," I say "Vince Oghobaase."

GG: I just want to say welcome to Columbus and The Ohio State University. I believe you will be a valuable addition to our football staff, and I look forward to working with you.
VO: [...]
GG: Um, you've probably heard many recent comments that were attributed to me. Let me assure you that these were taken out of context.
VO: [...]
GG: Okay, I may have said some inappropriate things out of a misguided attempt at humor.
VO: [...]
GG: Look, I apologize if anything I said about the ACC offended you.
VO: [...]
GG: Crap. All right. You win. I'll retire.

OldPhiKap
06-04-2013, 05:24 PM
AWWWWWWwwwwwwww -- SEE YA!

Atlanta Duke
06-04-2013, 08:26 PM
Gordon Gee appears to be the Larry Brown of university presidents

Gee has led more colleges — West Virginia, the University of Colorado, Ohio State, Brown and Vanderbilt — than any other university president in the United States.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/06/ohio-state-president-gee.html

Maybe he now can be the president of a juco if he wants to stay in the game

hurleyfor3
06-04-2013, 09:21 PM
Gordon Gee appears to be the Larry Brown of university presidents

Gee has led more colleges — West Virginia, the University of Colorado, Ohio State, Brown and Vanderbilt — than any other university president in the United States.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/06/ohio-state-president-gee.html

Maybe he now can be the president of a juco if he wants to stay in the game

I think the next step would be Long Beach State. Maybe UC-Santa Cruz.

roywhite
06-04-2013, 09:40 PM
I think the next step would be Long Beach State. Maybe UC-Santa Cruz.

Gee as the head Banana Slug? yeah, that would work.

OldPhiKap
06-04-2013, 10:18 PM
Gee as the head Banana Slug? yeah, that would work.

"Slime 'em, Gee!"

miramar
06-04-2013, 10:46 PM
I think the next step would be Long Beach State. Maybe UC-Santa Cruz.

I went to UCSC as an undergraduate and I have to admit that we are the only team in college basketball history to lose a game when all of the opposing players but one had fouled out. It happened after I graduated, but IIRC UCSC was down by one in the closing seconds and since the opposing player couldn't inbound to anyone, he managed to throw it against a defender as time ran out. I guess it never occurred to anyone that it wasn't the right time for a full court press...

Mike Corey
06-05-2013, 08:56 AM
With regard to the DBR accounting of Gee's "retirement", I take umbrage with the incomplete characterization (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=47510)of Gee's comments.

Gee's statements were unequivocally jokes, and framing it as as a sincere opinion of Gee's is beneath DBR.

Duvall
06-05-2013, 09:16 AM
With regard to the DBR accounting of Gee's "retirement", I take umbrage with the incomplete characterization (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=47510)of Gee's comments.

Gee's statements were unequivocally jokes, and framing it as as a sincere opinion of Gee's is beneath DBR.

Calling something a "joke" doesn't do much to mitigate its impact.

Mike Corey
06-05-2013, 09:34 AM
Calling something a "joke" doesn't do much to mitigate its impact.

If his comments were serious regarding his thoughts about priests and Catholics, he'd have been fired in December, and the firestorm would have been far greater.

The end result is clearly the same, but the suggestion that Gee was actually excoriating Catholics has far different implications than his ill-fated attempt at humor.

Wander
06-05-2013, 09:42 AM
I don't see anything outrageous, or at least surprising, about his comments regarding the ACC. I mean, we know that's basically what the Big 10 was thinking anyway.

I'm a little split on his "retirement." On one hand: for better or worse, athletics are a major part of university administration, and the guy's a total doofus when it comes to college sports, and represents everything that's wrong with presidents' views on college football. So as a college football fan with no connection to Ohio State, I'm not shedding any tears. On the other hand, this particular controversy is nowhere near important enough to warrant the firing of a college president, who has tons of much more serious responsibilities in running a university.

uh_no
06-05-2013, 10:19 AM
If his comments were serious regarding his thoughts about priests and Catholics, he'd have been fired in December, and the firestorm would have been far greater.

The end result is clearly the same, but the suggestion that Gee was actually excoriating Catholics has far different implications than his ill-fated attempt at humor.

Would your sentiment be the same if the joke was about jews or muslims? Blacks, Gays, or any other group?

Joking about such groups has long been unacceptable behavior in this country, and whether sincere or not, such comments often betray an underlying prejudice or misconception.

Atlanta Duke
06-05-2013, 10:35 AM
If his comments were serious regarding his thoughts about priests and Catholics, he'd have been fired in December, and the firestorm would have been far greater.

The end result is clearly the same, but the suggestion that Gee was actually excoriating Catholics has far different implications than his ill-fated attempt at humor.

Lots of what the speaker regards as "ill-fated" jokes reflect a certain level of insensitivity even if the speaker is not a bigot - once the remarks became public Gee was an intolerable embarrassment to OSU and had to go as university president

Too bad Gee did not man up and admit he walked the plank for his remarks rather than lying about why he is departing

Gee insisted that he wasn't retiring because he made jokes about Catholics, other schools and a rival athletic conference during a December speech.

"This isn't about those statements," he said during a phone call with reporters this afternoon. "I have apologized for those remarks and feel incredibly sorry, but I have moved on."

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/06/ohio-state-president-gee.html

johnb
06-05-2013, 10:39 AM
Two things about Gee's "retirement" bother me.

First, he says that his announcement has nothing to do with his recent verbal missteps. I don't quite understand why he would lie about such a thing. It seems far preferable to say, "I'm retiring. I was going to retire soon, most likely, anyway, but I am retiring now to spare my university further embarrassment. I intended the comments to be jokes, and they don't reflect my viewpoints, but I understand popular opinion..."

"Small" lies such as this are endemic, but they strike me as wrong. A bit like the long, verbally intricate apologies that ESPN routinely quotes from athletes--as if ESPN weren't aware that the apology was obviously written by an agent or PR guy and that the player probably--at most--had to sign off on the basic content.

Worse is the decision of Ohio State to pick an insider to be interim president in order that the person not accept the job as Columbus superintendent of schools. He was apparently slated to begin that job in 3 weeks, but now the school district is going to start its year without a leader. The selectee (who had previously been the OSU interim) didn't have to take the job, but the timing was reportedly so that they could lock him up. Seem shabby all around, especially to the home town schools and students.

Details here: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/06/ohio-state-president-gee.html

I bring up these items of acceptable and usual business because I just don't think these should be either usual or acceptable. Perhaps Jon Stewart should take on Sports a bit more...

Back off my high horse and to work.

BD80
06-05-2013, 10:52 AM
Would your sentiment be the same if the joke was about jews or muslims? Blacks, Gays, or any other group?

Joking about such groups has long been unacceptable behavior in this country, and whether sincere or not, such comments often betray an underlying prejudice or misconception.

Unless they're about the Irish ...

sagegrouse
06-05-2013, 10:57 AM
With regard to the DBR accounting of Gee's "retirement", I take umbrage with the incomplete characterization (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=47510)of Gee's comments.

Gee's statements were unequivocally jokes, and framing it as as a sincere opinion of Gee's is beneath DBR.

DBR's remarks were a bit slapdash but certainly did not frame Gee's remarks as a "sincere opinion."

WRT the Notre Dame comments. The Irish were excluded from the Big Ten for many decades, when membership would have helped Notre Dame, for reasons the NDers attributed to anti-Catholic bigotry.

Anyway, there is no excuse for these comments by a university president in any setting, especially one with a camera and mike:

"You can't trust those damned Catholics...."

""You tell the SEC when they learn to read and write..."

"... make sure that we have insitutions of like-minded academic integrity. So you wont see us adding Louisville or the University of Kentucky."

Apparently rejoicing in the prospect of the disintegration of the ACC, which is a business partner via the NCAA of the Big Ten.

These are cutting remarks cloaked in humor. He did the right thing in resigning.

sagegrouse

Mike Corey
06-05-2013, 11:25 AM
Of course, I agree that the jokes about Catholics/priests were inappropriate--for anyone, not just a university president.

I agree that he should have been forthright about why he's retiring; who knows why he's not.

I disagree with the suggestion that the joke unveils some sort of bias or bigotry held by President Gee. But I'll leave it be from here on out.

johnb
06-05-2013, 02:25 PM
With regard to the DBR accounting of Gee's "retirement", I take umbrage with the incomplete characterization (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=47510)of Gee's comments.

Gee's statements were unequivocally jokes, and framing it as as a sincere opinion of Gee's is beneath DBR.

Jokes are complicated. I bet the comment about untrustworthy Catholics was funny to the presumably Protestant audience. Why? For one thing, American Catholics are not the oppressed minority that they were in this country in Gee's lifetime. They're doing fine. It's a bit like making jokes about American Jews. As a group, they've emerged from the shadows of World War II and thrived. Or about gay men and women, who have increasingly been able to do well in the American mainstream--though it'll probably take at least another generation for sexual minorities to reach the place where membership is not noteworthy.

Nevertheless, Catholics, Jews, and gays remain targets to some extent even in 21st century America, and anyone older than 40 likely grew up with an awareness of stigma attached to being a member of these groups. I'd imagine a Mormon like Gee would be especially sensitive to such stigma, especially soon after the first significant presidential race by one of its members. I'd assume that one reason for his insider/outsider references was the implicit message: we are all insiders, here at Ohio State, holding the fort against incursions from religious and intellectual inferiors (Louisville, Kentucky, Arkansas, SEC, Catholics), likely able to attract schools (Duke, Virginia, and Carolina) that have historically been seen as superior but that now view the BiG as a safe port in the storm.

While I assume other large state universities can take care of themselves (U of Kentucky may be similar to, say, Catholics, in that they are doing just fine and are, in many respects, similar to Ohio State: big flagship university with a sports program more famous than its academics). Some of the digs, like using his prestige and position to go after an individual coach, is bullying of someone relatively weak. And, at least to me, it's just not funny to go after relatively disenfranchised minorities. Even when members of that minority go after one of their own, I wonder whether they are just identifying wit the oppressive majority--taking solace in that identification--and throwing one of their own under the bus.

Frankly, that is what I assumed Gee was doing: allying himself with the Protestant majority against the Catholic minority as part of his ongoing effort to build his popularity and promote his fund raising. The fact that he can do it when many Protestants trust Mormons less than they do Catholics is a testament to his multi-decade ability to overcome the wariness that accompanies being a member of a religion that is widely viewed as a cult. For example, here is a typical and subdued web site comparing Mormon beliefs to those of Christians: http://www.religionfacts.com/mormonism/comparison.htm. I think the anti-Mormon thing is especially strong among fundamentalists who tend to congregate in the south rather than the midwest, but my understanding is that it is significant throughout the country (aside from Utah and parts of the west).

OK, all of that is over-analysis, but I think whenever a member of the ruling class makes jokes at the expense of a group that is relatively disenfranchised, they need to be prepared for disapproval, even if it is usually silent. And if they're a public figure who wears a coat and tie to work, the game is over.