Maryland and rivalries

[johnb]

from DBR:
a bad Big Ten football team is still better than a good Maryland football team.

ha.

though I should add that I feel somewhat mixed in my schadenfreude. my distaste for Maryland athletics stems from the administrators who did not rein in the bad behavior of some fans and created an atmosphere of paranoia and unsportsmanlike hostility. and it is those same administrators who made the decision to move conferences after being part of their mismanaged financial situation.

as is the case in war, those senior administrators aren't going to be the ones primarily affected by the foolish decisions. it is the 20 year olds driving across country for a track meet, etc. oh well.

[Class of '94]

from DBR:
a bad Big Ten football team is still better than a good Maryland football team.

ha.

though I should add that I feel somewhat mixed in my schadenfreude. my distaste for Maryland athletics stems from the administrators who did not rein in the bad behavior of some fans and created an atmosphere of paranoia and unsportsmanlike hostility. and it is those same administrators who made the decision to move conferences after being part of their mismanaged financial situation.

as is the case in war, those senior administrators aren't going to be the ones primarily affected by the foolish decisions. it is the 20 year olds driving across country for a track meet, etc. oh well.

It will be interesting to see how the travel subsidy the Big 10 is giving MD (for at least a few years?) impacts the non-revenue teams' travel expenses. I got the feeling from reading a Baltimore Sun article that those teams would be flying out to remote locations in the Big 10. If that is the case and those same administrators do not mismanage those subsidies, MD will most likely do ok with travel expenses. That said, it will be hard for fans to travel and support the MD teams. And I have to say, the BIG 10 really wanted MD bad enough that they were willing to give MD travel subsidies for their teams. I don't think Nebraska got that perk when they came into that league.

[OldPhiKap]

If they felt like they were in Alaska before . . . .

[Here is a Turtle]

I'm going to ignore a flame-bait comment from a Duke fan talking about Maryland football considering how laughable the Duke football program has been, this past year withstanding.

Maryland will be fine in the Big Ten.

[hurleyfor3]

I'm going to ignore a flame-bait comment from a Duke fan

That's an amusing use of the word "ignore".

[Here is a Turtle]

I suppose it is. Point still stands. Maryland will be an average team. If Vanderbilt can get themselves together under the right coach than the same can happen at Maryland. Fridgeon did it from 2001-04, 2010. It can happen.

[uh_no]

I'm going to ignore a flame-bait comment from a Duke fan talking about Maryland football considering how laughable the Duke football program has been, this past year withstanding.

Maryland will be fine in the Big Ten.

All the best; You won't be missed!

[gocanes0506]

I'm going to ignore a flame-bait comment from a Duke fan talking about Maryland football considering how laughable the Duke football program has been, this past year withstanding.

Maryland will be fine in the Big Ten.

So said Mizzou fans about their football team. I would say they will compete with Rutgers and Indiana for the bottom three in the east. They had better schedule 4 softies for OOC games or they will struggle to be bowl eligible.

[OldPhiKap]

That's an amusing use of the word "ignore".

Cannot spork you, but that was damn funny.

In many ways, Md was mt second-favorite ACC team when I was at Duke and the years after. Lefty, Bias, Francis, Hipp, Gatlin, Branch, Booth, etc. I don't know when the real nastiness started -- I guess about 2000 or so -- but Md became the bunny-boiling psychopathic jilted ex-lover who would not be ignored.

Enjoy trips to Nebraska for the women's lacrosse team. You want out, don't let the door hit your rump on the way out.

[Reilly]

... And I have to say, the BIG 10 really wanted MD bad enough that they were willing to give MD travel subsidies for their teams. ...

... and the Globetrotters pay for the travel of the Washington Generals ...

[Here is a Turtle]

I am more than sure that we will be more than fine in the Big Ten. As long as we are still good in basketball and can make the occasional bowl game.

Trust me, I can't wait to leave.

[uh_no]

I am more than sure that we will be more than fine in the Big Ten. As long as we are still good in basketball and can make the occasional bowl game.

Trust me, I can't wait to leave.

speaking of laughable :)

[bob blue devil]

I am more than sure that we will be more than fine in the Big Ten. As long as we are still good in basketball...

I agree; people are overstating the challenge MD will face going to the b1g. I'm sure you'll have the continued success of making the nit every 3 years or so. MD fans deserve no less.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I am more than sure that we will be more than fine in the Big Ten. As long as we are still good in basketball and can make the occasional bowl game.

Trust me, I can't wait to leave.
And yet here you are... and taking general comments on a Duke discussion board personally to boot.

[Here is a Turtle]

I've explained my rationale for being here before. I'm not so much taking it personally as much as I am defending my school, as you would if the situation was reversed. Maryland will be fine in the Big Ten.

[OldPhiKap]

I've explained my rationale for being here before. I'm not so much taking it personally as much as I am defending my school, as you would if the situation was reversed. Maryland will be fine in the Big Ten.

Maryland wants to go, we want them gone.

Win-win.

Good luck.

[Here is a Turtle]

Maryland wants to go, we want them gone.

Win-win.

Good luck.

Thank you, and I wish the same.

I don't understand the anger here now that Maryland is gone. We are a blip on your radar and in a few years we won't care as much about Duke. Everyone wins.

[OldPhiKap]

Thank you, and I wish the same.

I don't understand the anger here now that Maryland is gone. We are a blip on your radar and in a few years we won't care as much about Duke. Everyone wins.

True, but you are not gone for another year, it's like the employee who quits, and gives his two-YEAR notice. It is not good for your school, or our conference, to prolong this. That's not Md's fault but they will bear a lot of ill-will this year.

As far as Duke-Maryland ill will specifically, that has been building for more than a decade. Surely, that is not unnoticed by you. As I said above, I really liked Md up until 2000 or so. I am not a blind hater. But you need to be free of the ACC, and we are ready for Md to be gone. This extra year is harmful for all concerned.

[Here is a Turtle]

True, but you are not gone for another year, it's like the employee who quits, and gives his two-YEAR notice. It is not good for your school, or our conference, to prolong this. That's not Md's fault but they will bear a lot of ill-will this year.

As far as Duke-Maryland ill will specifically, that has been building for more than a decade. Surely, that is not unnoticed by you. As I said above, I really liked Md up until 2000 or so. I am not a blind hater. But you need to be free of the ACC, and we are ready for Md to be gone. This extra year is harmful for all concerned.

You may not remember but I made a thread asking this very question not too long ago so Im caught up on the Duke perspective now.

Next year will be interesting for all. 2014 can't come soon enough. The headway Maryland would make as a fanbase on a non-Duke schedule will be great. Maybe the basketball fans will act more like our soccer fans.

[brevity]

Okay, THIS is the most pointless thread of the past week involving the University of Maryland. Those of you who visit the Off Topic board know that there was some serious competition. Just so I don't have to keep reading this...


Allow not the gate to retaliate where our Creator had you bifurcate.


Maryland will be fine in the Big Ten.

Quit baiting. Quit biting.

[hudlow]

Don't the the schools in The Big 10 have boards like this?

We don't need any convincing....

hud

[Class of '94]

Thank you, and I wish the same.

I don't understand the anger here now that Maryland is gone. We are a blip on your radar and in a few years we won't care as much about Duke. Everyone wins.

No baiting or biting here.......You appear to be a rational MD fan and supporter; and I respect you trying to stand up for your school. I'm actually disappointed to see MD leaving the conference they helped to form and build; and I'm probably one of the few people here that would've preferred MD staying in the ACC despite some of over the top MD basketball fans. That said, if you want to go....go; but I'm curious to know why you're so eager to leave the ACC?

Outside of the despearate need for more money for their athletic department, no other reason for MD wanting to leave appears genuine to me imo. I've never understood the NC bias and the feeling of being a remote outpost of the ACC that many MD fans and supporters have felt when your school is only about 5 hours away from the ACC league office in Greensboro compared to about 12 hrs away from the BIG 10 league office in Chicago. How are you going to feel any different in the BIG 10 when geographically you'll be much further away froma a majority of the schools in the Big 10 compared to the ACC. I live in Big 10 country and I can tell you first hand that many people within this conference feels that there is a Michigan and Ohio St bias by their league office. Feel free to visit Penn St and Mich St message boards for instance.

You mentioned MD fans will get over playing Duke (and I'll add UNC as well) in a few years; but I think it will hard to forget that quickly when MD still falls within the ACC footprint and how close the school is to these ACC programs; and I personally think it was good for the ACC and MD to play Duke, UNC, UVA, etc. across multiple sports like Lacrosse, basketball, soccer, football, etc.; and I just don't see any schools that MD can develop comparable intense rivalries with. Maybe Penn St, Rutgers? I seriously doublt Mich St, Indiana, Mich and Ohio St are going to look at MD a serious rival in basketball. The intense rivalries in the BIG 10 that draw national intention are centered around those 4 schools.

The other reason I've heard MD administrators and some students say that one of the reasons for going to the BIG 10 conference is that it is the most prestigious academic and athletic conference in the country (outside of the IVY League). Prior to MD leaving (and even after), that sentiment is simply not true. The ACC matched up academically as well as or better than the Big 10 schools.

If a MD supporter isn't saying "we [MD] are going to the BIG 10 because we need the money; and if we're going to be a remote school and have to deal with similar biases, we'd deal with it in the BIG 10 making more money than remain in the ACC", then anything else is just not genuine imo. If you need the money, fine....go do what you have to do. I wish you well. It just comes acoss badly when your President and AD are telling ACC colleagues that we're all in while secretly behind closed doors negotiating a deal with the Big 10. And to add other reasons for leaving to soften the monetary ones just comes across to me as disrespectful.

I'm not going to argue back with you on this because I really want to hear your thoughts. My point is that outside of the money, MD is not leaving or escaping any of the other perceived faults of the ACC by going to the Big 10. Those same perceived slights in the ACC are all there in the Big 10; they're just in a different form.

[howardlander]

Thank you, and I wish the same.

I don't understand the anger here now that Maryland is gone. We are a blip on your radar and in a few years we won't care as much about Duke. Everyone wins.

If you really want to know why we are OK with Maryland leaving, check out this link:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2001-02-09/sports/0102090073_1_university-of-maryland-boozer-curtain

The truth is that athletics is supposed to be fun, not dangerous. The perception among many fans here, including me, is that the Maryland administration failed to act to contain the danger. I'm not angry with Maryland for leaving, I'm glad. The sooner the better.

Howard

[WiJoe]

Dear turtles:

1) toodle-oo

B) LET the screen door hit you on the way out.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

I suppose it is. Point still stands. Maryland will be an average team. If Vanderbilt can get themselves together under the right coach than the same can happen at Maryland. Fridgeon did it from 2001-04, 2010. It can happen.

James Franklin could have been your right coach. I will always have some appreciation for MD football for letting him go.

Fun fact, Vandy currently has the longest win streak in the SEC.

[-bdbd]

Outside of the despearate need for more money for their athletic department, no other reason for MD wanting to leave appears genuine to me imo. I've never understood the NC bias and the feeling of being a remote outpost of the ACC that many MD fans and supporters have felt when your school is only about 5 hours away from the ACC league office in Greensboro compared to about 12 hrs away from the BIG 10 league office in Chicago. How are you going to feel any different in the BIG 10 when geographically you'll be much further away froma a majority of the schools in the Big 10 compared to the ACC. I live in Big 10 country and I can tell you first hand that many people within this conference feels that there is a Michigan and Ohio St bias by their league office. Feel free to visit Penn St and Mich St message boards for instance.

The other reason I've heard MD administrators and some students say that one of the reasons for going to the BIG 10 conference is that it is the most prestigious academic and athletic conference in the country (outside of the IVY League). Prior to MD leaving (and even after), that sentiment is simply not true. The ACC matched up academically as well as or better than the Big 10 schools.

As a DC-area Duke fan let me take a quick stab at a couple of these.

The black-highlighted comment: This has puzzled me too. The decision was very obiously a financial one, made by a President and AD who were desperately fighting an uphill battle around the inevitable last-year decision to cut about ten non-rev sports due to budgetary mismanagement in the athletic department. Everything else is really window dressing. My serious MD grad/fans friends generally acknowledge this within the first minute of any serious discussion of this whole topic. What has sincerely amazed me is the lack of blow-back on to the MD administrators who (mis-)managed that athletic budget and created this whole situation where bailing on the ACC became their best remaining option. Where is the Terp fan anger for their mismanagement and the negative consequences it resulted in for those fans?? I guess it is simpler to simply rationalize the result rather than confront some poor management/consequences.

As to the red-highlighted comment: First a little MD background. As a school/community you have to start with there being quite a bit of a "we don't get no respect"/inferiority complex among MD fans. Most of my more ardent Terp-supporter friends acknowledge the predisposed presence of this large chip on the collective shoulder of MD fans. This bias reacts rather poorly, for example, to overt signs of disrespect such as student chants from opponents about "Not our rivals!" But , in general, there is a constant search for "signs" of disrespect. Whether it be from the league, other schools, other fans and from the media (the main body of ACC media being perceived in this area as N.C.-centric). But the "NC bias" for the typical Terp fan is an overworn excuse for things not going their way, in terms of conference scheduling, conference rules/decisions (such as the ACCT rarely being held in the conference's largest in-footprint market), etc. As they will tell you, IT IS NOT A GEOGRAPHIC THING. It is a 'state of mind' thing. So, the Big10 being based twice as far away doesn't matter from the perspective of how "anti-MD" the league's decisions will be. (In my personal view, you make a very solid point -- that the Big10 has its own perceived biases; but the Terp fans simply aren't aware of them YET. Classic case of the grass being greener....until you're actually standing in the neighbor's yard. I sincerely believe that within three years we'll be hearing frequent MD complaints about "that damn Big10 bias towards the Midwest schools."

Regarding the greened comment on academics: The University took great pains at the time of the announcement to highlight the pooled resources of the Big10/UofChicago. These are combined research funds from a bunch of very large state/research institutions, so the pool is fairly large and unique. But (1) Pooled research funds don't equate to "academic superiority," (2) I keep asking how they help the common student or improve MD's general academic standing, which according to the US NEws rankings is in the lower half of the ACC as well as the Big Ten's, (3) I keep asking, w/o getting an answer, doesn't "pooling" research funds imply that money could actually be TAKEN AWAY just as easily as it could be increased? (The pot doesn't get bigger, it just gets SHARED.)

As a traditionalist I find the whole situation very sad in general. And I do believe the MD fans will grow to be generally disappointed with the decision -- probably about the time of the first away game at Wisconsin where the fans can't get to b/c of distance, and they get to watch on TV at a halftime deficit in excess of 35 points... (In fairness, the FB losing probably won't matter in the first couple of years, b/c of the general excitement around being in something new, but the shine WILL quickly tarnish as the losses mount - I agree that the main competition will be with IND and Rutgers to avoid the cellar of the Big1-/East. (That is what some friends of mine from the Big10 are predicting.) In general, I think MD will dominate a weak Big10 in some of its stronger non-rev sports, such as Lax and Soccer and Women's BB; but the one's that the Big10 fans actually CARE about - FB and MBB - will be really ugly for the forseeable future. I am actually very curious to see how well that wares on the Terp fans. Will be interesting.

[Class of '94]

In regards to the bias, I'd be interested to get a sense from you in regards to how excited your Big 10 friends are to have MD joining their league. Living in Michigan, I can tell you that at the time of the announcement of MD and Rutgers joining, a majority of people here were not overly-enthused by the two additions. In fact, most felt that the addition of MD and Rutgers diluted the quality of BIG 10 football and only MD potentially added something in basketball. Many people here would've preferred getting some combination of Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, and Fla St (if the Big 10 was going to expand South). There are also those who believe MD will be an easy win to pad the win column for teams like Ohio St and Michigan (and most of the other teams) in the Big 10 eastern division. IMO, I don't think that's a good situation to be in.

So how are MD fans going to feel (if they don't know by now) when they realize that many fans of the other schools of their new conference aren't that excited or thrilled about having them in the Big 10? Again, I'm not trying to upset any MD fan or even hating on MD out of spite; I'm just putting out the general response that many (I'll refrain from using most) feel about Big 10 adding MD. And if MD fans/supporters have a bias and chip on their shoulder about a perceived lack of respect by fans of other schools in the ACC, then they are going to have a "major" chip on their shoulder when they join the Big 10.

[Mal]

In regards to the bias, I'd be interested to get a sense from you in regards to how excited your Big 10 friends are to have MD joining their league.

I'm not BDBD, by I live in B1G territory, grew up in a different part of it from where I now live, and went to grad school in yet another part. So, I have lots of experience with people associated with most of the B1G schools. I'd say the response ranges from individual to individual, of course, but that range stops at a high end of "Whatever" or "The silver lining is this should at least be a couple easy football wins." I've not met a single person who actually welcomes Maryland or Rutgers, or desired either of them a year ago, though there are some who actually think the whole television market expansion thing was worth chasing, so they understand the reasons but still would have preferred others. To the extent anyone was swayed by the need to add more schools, they by and large wanted some combination of Notre Dame, Missouri, Kansas or Pitt, mostly out of a desire for some semblance of geographic and cultural continuity. By and large, the response has been vocal bemoaning of the money as primary driving factor, leading to schools who have no history with anyone in the B1G other than Penn State (who most of the region feels still regrets even being in the conference), and are not in any way, shape or form "midwestern." So, yeah, both of them are going to be dealing with some resentment. Whether Maryland supporters can deal with that in a more constructive way than they've recently dealt with their perception of being underappreciated in the ACC is an open question. My guess is that Rutgers supporters are used to the school being overlooked and/or dismissed, so the main issue they'll have to deal with (if my personal prediction is correct and they don't make any noise in football) is regret that they didn't take the window of opportunity they had while in the Big East to take the next step, especially in basketball, because they're going to find it really hard to climb up to higher floors in the B1G in either of the big revenue sports. And they're going to get creamed in just about everything else, at least for awhile. They were 111th in the Director's Cup standings last year, and the next lowest B1G school was Iowa. At 48. The nonrevenue sports at Rutgers are going to have some catching up to do, although being in the conference will likely help them with recruiting.

[dukeofcalabash]

Maryland wants to go, we want them gone.

Win-win.

Good luck.

At least Maryland should live up to it's word. Just pay your departing money on the way out.

[sagegrouse]

I've not met a single person who actually welcomes Maryland or Rutgers, or desired either of them a year ago, though there are some who actually think the whole television market expansion thing was worth chasing, so they understand the reasons but still would have preferred others. To the extent anyone was swayed by the need to add more schools, they by and large wanted some combination of Notre Dame, Missouri, Kansas or Pitt, mostly out of a desire for some semblance of geographic and cultural continuity. By and large, the response has been vocal bemoaning of the money as primary driving factor, leading to schools who have no history with anyone in the B1G other than Penn State (who most of the region feels still regrets even being in the conference), and are not in any way, shape or form "midwestern."

So, yeah, both of them are going to be dealing with some resentment. Whether Maryland supporters can deal with that in a more constructive way than they've recently dealt with their perception of being underappreciated in the ACC is an open question. My guess is that Rutgers supporters are used to the school being overlooked and/or dismissed, so the main issue they'll have to deal with (if my personal prediction is correct and they don't make any noise in football) is regret that they didn't take the window of opportunity they had while in the Big East to take the next step, especially in basketball, because they're going to find it really hard to climb up to higher floors in the B1G in either of the big revenue sports. And they're going to get creamed in just about everything else, at least for awhile. They were 111th in the Director's Cup standings last year, and the next lowest B1G school was Iowa. At 48. The nonrevenue sports at Rutgers are going to have some catching up to do, although being in the conference will likely help them with recruiting.

And the Big Ten fans don't know what they're likely to encounter with the students and fans of Rutgers and Maryland.

It may be that the Rutgers fans are worse than the Terps. Six years ago Rutgers had to apologize (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-09-11-3871363466_x.htm)to the US Naval Academy for the behavior of its students at a Navy-Rutgers football game.

From writer Brent Bozell:


Rutgers won the game but lost any sense of honor and decency. Navy was booed and peppered with "You suck!" chants when they stepped on the field to start both halves. When Navy kick returner Reggie Campbell came up limping after a tackle, students chanted: "You got f-ed up! You got f-ed up! You got f-ed up!" Toward the end of the second half, Rutgers students began to serenade an adjacent section of Navy fans and uniformed midshipmen: "'F- you, Navy! F- you, Navy! F- you, Navy!'"

Bill Squires, a New Jersey recruiter for Annapolis and a 1975 graduate of the Naval Academy, was appalled by the students, but proud of the Navy midshipmen because they had no reaction. "They took it. They stood tall. They did what they were taught to do. I am not sure, if I was 30 years younger in my white uniform, I wouldn't have reacted differently."

On Sept. 11, Rutgers President Richard McCormick apologized to Naval Academy officials in a letter. "No student-athlete should ever be subject to profane language directed at them from the crowd," he wrote, "and certainly not the young men of the Naval Academy, who have made a commitment to serve our nation in a time of war." That should be obvious to anyone, even college students with a surplus of alcohol in their systems.


sagegrouse

[howardlander]

And the Big Ten fans don't know what they're likely to encounter with the students and fans of Rutgers and Maryland.

It may be that the Rutgers fans are worse than the Terps. Six years ago Rutgers had to apologize (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-09-11-3871363466_x.htm)to the US Naval Academy for the behavior of its students at a Navy-Rutgers football game.

From writer Brent Bozell:

sagegrouse

See, the difference is that the Maryland admins would not have apologized...

[Duvall]

And the Big Ten fans don't know what they're likely to encounter with the students and fans of Rutgers and Maryland.

It may be that the Rutgers fans are worse than the Terps.

I don't see anything in either story to suggest that Rutgers fans are worse than Maryland fans. For Maryland, that would be *good* behavior.

[Here is a Turtle]

See, the difference is that the Maryland admins would not have apologized...

The difference is it wouldn't happen. The last two times the two teams played the Crab Bowl Classic nothing like that happened. Its a rivalry that really needs to happen more. Makes no sense that West Virginia is played every year while Navy is played every 5 now.

[Class of '94]

I'm not BDBD, by I live in B1G territory, grew up in a different part of it from where I now live, and went to grad school in yet another part. So, I have lots of experience with people associated with most of the B1G schools. I'd say the response ranges from individual to individual, of course, but that range stops at a high end of "Whatever" or "The silver lining is this should at least be a couple easy football wins." I've not met a single person who actually welcomes Maryland or Rutgers, or desired either of them a year ago, though there are some who actually think the whole television market expansion thing was worth chasing, so they understand the reasons but still would have preferred others.

Thanks Mal for adding your thoughts. That's exactly what I've heard where I'm at in BIG 10 country in regards to MD and Rutgers. Again, not trying to pile on or incite anyone but there appears to be very little excitement from BIG 10 fans about the additions of MD and Rutgers. If anything, the one positive I've heard was the their additions caused the Leaders and Legends division names to be scrubbed in favor of East and West. Add to it the belief by many that MD and Rutgers will be easy football wins; and that's about all the excitement you have here. It's going to be interesting to see if and who MD will develop rivalries with; and if those rivalries will grow to be as intense as the Duke games in all sports. I think MD's best bet will be developing a rivalry with one of the Mich schools or Ohio St; but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[ForkFondler]

There is some serious overthinking going on here. :confused: Unless I'm missing something, the new made-for-TV rivalry is Maryland-Rutgers. People will tune in from all over the midwest to watch that, right? :rolleyes:

[just_wondering]

As a DC-area Duke fan let me take a quick stab at a couple of these.

The black-highlighted comment: This has puzzled me too. The decision was very obiously a financial one, made by a President and AD who were desperately fighting an uphill battle around the inevitable last-year decision to cut about ten non-rev sports due to budgetary mismanagement in the athletic department. Everything else is really window dressing. My serious MD grad/fans friends generally acknowledge this within the first minute of any serious discussion of this whole topic. What has sincerely amazed me is the lack of blow-back on to the MD administrators who (mis-)managed that athletic budget and created this whole situation where bailing on the ACC became their best remaining option. Where is the Terp fan anger for their mismanagement and the negative consequences it resulted in for those fans?? I guess it is simpler to simply rationalize the result rather than confront some poor management/consequences.

As to the red-highlighted comment: First a little MD background. As a school/community you have to start with there being quite a bit of a "we don't get no respect"/inferiority complex among MD fans. Most of my more ardent Terp-supporter friends acknowledge the predisposed presence of this large chip on the collective shoulder of MD fans. This bias reacts rather poorly, for example, to overt signs of disrespect such as student chants from opponents about "Not our rivals!" But , in general, there is a constant search for "signs" of disrespect. Whether it be from the league, other schools, other fans and from the media (the main body of ACC media being perceived in this area as N.C.-centric). But the "NC bias" for the typical Terp fan is an overworn excuse for things not going their way, in terms of conference scheduling, conference rules/decisions (such as the ACCT rarely being held in the conference's largest in-footprint market), etc. As they will tell you, IT IS NOT A GEOGRAPHIC THING. It is a 'state of mind' thing. So, the Big10 being based twice as far away doesn't matter from the perspective of how "anti-MD" the league's decisions will be. (In my personal view, you make a very solid point -- that the Big10 has its own perceived biases; but the Terp fans simply aren't aware of them YET. Classic case of the grass being greener....until you're actually standing in the neighbor's yard. I sincerely believe that within three years we'll be hearing frequent MD complaints about "that damn Big10 bias towards the Midwest schools."

Regarding the greened comment on academics: The University took great pains at the time of the announcement to highlight the pooled resources of the Big10/UofChicago. These are combined research funds from a bunch of very large state/research institutions, so the pool is fairly large and unique. But (1) Pooled research funds don't equate to "academic superiority," (2) I keep asking how they help the common student or improve MD's general academic standing, which according to the US NEws rankings is in the lower half of the ACC as well as the Big Ten's, (3) I keep asking, w/o getting an answer, doesn't "pooling" research funds imply that money could actually be TAKEN AWAY just as easily as it could be increased? (The pot doesn't get bigger, it just gets SHARED.)

As a traditionalist I find the whole situation very sad in general. And I do believe the MD fans will grow to be generally disappointed with the decision -- probably about the time of the first away game at Wisconsin where the fans can't get to b/c of distance, and they get to watch on TV at a halftime deficit in excess of 35 points... (In fairness, the FB losing probably won't matter in the first couple of years, b/c of the general excitement around being in something new, but the shine WILL quickly tarnish as the losses mount - I agree that the main competition will be with IND and Rutgers to avoid the cellar of the Big1-/East. (That is what some friends of mine from the Big10 are predicting.) In general, I think MD will dominate a weak Big10 in some of its stronger non-rev sports, such as Lax and Soccer and Women's BB; but the one's that the Big10 fans actually CARE about - FB and MBB - will be really ugly for the forseeable future. I am actually very curious to see how well that wares on the Terp fans. Will be interesting.

************************************************** ***********************************************

The ACC that existed when Maryland joined doesn't really exist any more. No more Dinah Shore commercials. Characters like Bones McKinney and Lefty Driesell don't coach in the ACC. The small southern town environment of Washington that existed in the 50's also doesn't exist any more. Culturally Maryland has become different than the rest of the traditional ACC. Maryland doesn't play basketball at Cole Field house any more. Things are so different that the case be made that it was time for a change

The Big 10 is a good match for Maryland for women's sports if the travel is affordable. I think that in the long run the benefits of the travel out weigh the costs. I think that in a paradoxical way Big 10 football is good for Maryland. Better to be last in a good league than to be mediocre in a mediocre league. Given the size of Byrd Stadium and the competition with pro football in the area the ceiling for Maryland football is mediocre in a mediocre league.
The Washington Nationals didn't exist 10 years ago and yet sports fans in the Washington have adjusted to them. The Colts aren't in Baltimore any more yet life goes on with the Ravens. I am sure that people will adjust to Maryland being in the Big 10 as well.

[Class of '94]

************************************************** ***********************************************

The ACC that existed when Maryland joined doesn't really exist any more. No more Dinah Shore commercials. Characters like Bones McKinney and Lefty Driesell don't coach in the ACC. The small southern town environment of Washington that existed in the 50's also doesn't exist any more. Culturally Maryland has become different than the rest of the traditional ACC. Maryland doesn't play basketball at Cole Field house any more. Things are so different that the case be made that it was time for a change

The Big 10 is a good match for Maryland for women's sports if the travel is affordable. I think that in the long run the benefits of the travel out weigh the costs. I think that in a paradoxical way Big 10 football is good for Maryland. Better to be last in a good league than to be mediocre in a mediocre league. Given the size of Byrd Stadium and the competition with pro football in the area the ceiling for Maryland football is mediocre in a mediocre league.
The Washington Nationals didn't exist 10 years ago and yet sports fans in the Washington have adjusted to them. The Colts aren't in Baltimore any more yet life goes on with the Ravens. I am sure that people will adjust to Maryland being in the Big 10 as well.

I get what you're saying; but I'm not sure that I agree that it was time for MD to change conferences. I would contend that the growth and change throughout the entire foot print of the ACC has changed since the 50's. With the migration of many from the north to the south in the last 15-20 years, areas like the Triangle in NC aren't the same "small southern" towns they were back in the 50's or even as late as the 80's and early 90's. I agree that DC and Baltimore are more prosports cities; and I don't see how moving to the Big 10 will increase interest. And while Byrd Stadium is big compared to many ACC stadiums; it is one of the smallest stadiums in the Big. Moreover, if we're going to talk about change, the ACC imo has the potential to become a really good football league in the coming years as teams continue to develop and become better. Why not be mediocre in an up and coming good league (the ACC) than last in a good league (the Big 10)? That said, I agree that eventually everyone will move on and adjust to MD being in the BIG. I just don't necessarily see the Big 10 and its schools being a better fit for MD than the ACC. JMO

[aheel4ever]

And while Byrd Stadium is big compared to many ACC stadiums; it is one of the smallest stadiums in the Big.

Not a major point, but other than Duke and Wake, are there any stadiums in the ACC that are not larger than MD's?

[just_wondering]

I get what you're saying; but I'm not sure that I agree that it was time for MD to change conferences. I would contend that the growth and change throughout the entire foot print of the ACC has changed since the 50's. With the migration of many from the north to the south in the last 15-20 years, areas like the Triangle in NC aren't the same "small southern" towns they were back in the 50's or even as late as the 80's and early 90's. I agree that DC and Baltimore are more prosports cities; and I don't see how moving to the Big 10 will increase interest. And while Byrd Stadium is big compared to many ACC stadiums; it is one of the smallest stadiums in the Big. Moreover, if we're going to talk about change, the ACC imo has the potential to become a really good football league in the coming years as teams continue to develop and become better. Why not be mediocre in an up and coming good league (the ACC) than last in a good league (the Big 10)? That said, I agree that eventually everyone will move on and adjust to MD being in the BIG. I just don't necessarily see the Big 10 and its schools being a better fit for MD than the ACC. JMO

************************************************** ********************************
I think that the correct stereotype of Maryland fans is apathy. Most fans are there to be there. Maybe 3 or 4 home basketball games and maybe 1 to 2 home football games will have crowds that could be considered into it. The "it" is defined by the context. The reputation of the Duke game is to be there and to be edgy. When Maryland joins the Big 10 the context for each game will have to be defined one by one. But I think that the number of big games will stay constant. Let's hope that the need to be edgy will be jettisoned once and for all and replaced by a new standard of cool. I doubt it although it will take some time for a game against a Big 10 opponent to induce the same level of edgy behavior that the Duke game induced. What I see in the future is what I see now - maybe 1 to 2 home football games will be big deals. 3 to 4 home basketball games will be big deals.
Our record against Penn State is instructive. Despite how lopsided the rivalry was the game was a big deal because it was.

[-bdbd]

Posted by Class of '94 In regards to the bias, I'd be interested to get a sense from you in regards to how excited your Big 10 friends are to have MD joining their league.

Posted by Mal :
I'm not BDBD, by I live in B1G territory, grew up in a different part of it from where I now live, and went to grad school in yet another part. So, I have lots of experience with people associated with most of the B1G schools. I'd say the response ranges from individual to individual, of course, but that range stops at a high end of "Whatever" or "The silver lining is this should at least be a couple easy football wins." I've not met a single person who actually welcomes Maryland or Rutgers, or desired either of them a year ago, though there are some who actually think the whole television market expansion thing was worth chasing, so they understand the reasons but still would have preferred others. To the extent anyone was swayed by the need to add more schools, they by and large wanted some combination of Notre Dame, Missouri, Kansas or Pitt, mostly out of a desire for some semblance of geographic and cultural continuity. By and large, the response has been vocal bemoaning of the money as primary driving factor, leading to schools who have no history with anyone in the B1G other than Penn State (who most of the region feels still regrets even being in the conference), and are not in any way, shape or form "midwestern." So, yeah, both of them are going to be dealing with some resentment. Whether Maryland supporters can deal with that in a more constructive way than they've recently dealt with their perception of being underappreciated in the ACC is an open question. My guess is that Rutgers supporters are used to the school being overlooked and/or dismissed, so the main issue they'll have to deal with (if my personal prediction is correct and they don't make any noise in football) is regret that they didn't take the window of opportunity they had while in the Big East to take the next step, especially in basketball, because they're going to find it really hard to climb up to higher floors in the B1G in either of the big revenue sports. And they're going to get creamed in just about everything else, at least for awhile. They were 111th in the Director's Cup standings last year, and the next lowest B1G school was Iowa. At 48. The nonrevenue sports at Rutgers are going to have some catching up to do, although being in the conference will likely help them with recruiting.

I get what you're saying; but I'm not sure that I agree that it was time for MD to change conferences. I would contend that the growth and change throughout the entire foot print of the ACC has changed since the 50's. With the migration of many from the north to the south in the last 15-20 years, areas like the Triangle in NC aren't the same "small southern" towns they were back in the 50's or even as late as the 80's and early 90's. I agree that DC and Baltimore are more prosports cities; and I don't see how moving to the Big 10 will increase interest. And while Byrd Stadium is big compared to many ACC stadiums; it is one of the smallest stadiums in the Big. Moreover, if we're going to talk about change, the ACC imo has the potential to become a really good football league in the coming years as teams continue to develop and become better. Why not be mediocre in an up and coming good league (the ACC) than last in a good league (the Big 10)? That said, I agree that eventually everyone will move on and adjust to MD being in the BIG. I just don't necessarily see the Big 10 and its schools being a better fit for MD than the ACC. JMO

-------------

BDBD: I'd generally agree with the above sentiment. My Big10 pals seem to be a little chagrinned by the whole thing. They like that they "got one over on the ACC," but are finding it hard to keep lording it over me re. the Big10's "superior football," having just stolen a couple of mediocre teams from the Big East ("Big Least" as one of them keeps saying) and ACC, and actually paid some extra to get them, such as agreeing to an extra "travel stipend" (subsidy) for them.

One is a Michican double-grad (undergrad and MBA), who actually took me to see a game there a couple years ago -- wow, what an environment, sitting "cheek-to-cheek" with 100,000+ of my closest friends -- and he is your sterotypical Michigan fan. IOW, kinda condescending to the quality of FB outside of the states of MI and OH in general, and particularly outside of the Big10. He looks at Rutgers and MD simply and purely as "two more guaranteed wins every year," but thinks it was a step down for the Big Ten in FB and BB quality. A couple of friends from PSU are a little more positive, while not respecting MD or Rutgers in FB at all, they seem to like the idea of finally having conference opponents "in the same region of the country," as one said. One of them told me that the Big10 was worried about PSU leaving, and so this was done partially to keep PSU happy (add to that the promise to add a league office in the eastern part of the league's geography).

Across the board I think they understand the logic, and don't think it is a bad thing to gain access to the new markets from DC, Philly, NYC. But they seem to see it as a trade-off -- and drop in "league quality" in return for desirable TV market access.

[-bdbd]

Not a major point, but other than Duke and Wake, are there any stadiums in the ACC that are not larger than MD's?

Actually, this whole issue of filling up their FB stadium at Byrd was part of the rationale that you hear from MD fans in terms of justifying the move. Recall that the MD athletic department was in financial crisis beore the decision to bail on the ACC. A big part of it was the decision, several years ago, to greatly expand Byrd (and to borrow tens of millions to build the expansion), an expansion which included a large number of luxury boxes. As of last season a large number of those luxury boxes were still sitting empty for home games, as well as wide swaths of regular stadium seats. I want to say that they expanded it up to about 62.5K (??), which doesn't sound huge, but it does include quite a bunch of those pricey box seats, and they FULLY expect to fill them with teams like Michigan and OSU coming to town.

[Here is a Turtle]

Byrd is 54k.

[Class of '94]

Actually, this whole issue of filling up their FB stadium at Byrd was part of the rationale that you hear from MD fans in terms of justifying the move. Recall that the MD athletic department was in financial crisis beore the decision to bail on the ACC. A big part of it was the decision, several years ago, to greatly expand Byrd (and to borrow tens of millions to build the expansion), an expansion which included a large number of luxury boxes. As of last season a large number of those luxury boxes were still sitting empty for home games, as well as wide swaths of regular stadium seats. I want to say that they expanded it up to about 62.5K (??), which doesn't sound huge, but it does include quite a bunch of those pricey box seats, and they FULLY expect to fill them with teams like Michigan and OSU coming to town.

Great...so Byrd stadium feels up a couple times every other year. I wonder how profitable that will end up being. Sorry, that was a shot; but seriously, if you analyze the BIG 10, there are only 6-7 true power teams in that conference (Mich, Mich St, OSU, Penn St, Wis, Iowa and Nebraska); and of those 6, thankfully 4 are in their division, so they will be guaranteed to play them at home once every other year. The are only guranteed to play the other 2 once every 4 years; which means MD may only play those teams at home once every 8 years. I just don't see MD fans feeling up the Byrd (in the long term; maybe the first couple of years because everything is new) for teams like Indiana, Minn, Ill, Rutgers, Purdue, etc. on a regular basis. Thus, I still question how profitable home games will be for MD. Luckily for them, the Big 10 also has a yearly attendance subsidy for schools with below average attendance. So I guess in the end MD does make out when you factor in the travel subsidy that MD is getting and the attendance subsidy that they most likely will qualify for as well.

[Mal]

Actually, this whole issue of filling up their FB stadium at Byrd was part of the rationale that you hear from MD fans in terms of justifying the move. Recall that the MD athletic department was in financial crisis beore the decision to bail on the ACC. A big part of it was the decision, several years ago, to greatly expand Byrd (and to borrow tens of millions to build the expansion), an expansion which included a large number of luxury boxes. As of last season a large number of those luxury boxes were still sitting empty for home games, as well as wide swaths of regular stadium seats. I want to say that they expanded it up to about 62.5K (??), which doesn't sound huge, but it does include quite a bunch of those pricey box seats, and they FULLY expect to fill them with teams like Michigan and OSU coming to town.

Sounds like fool's gold to me. We'll see, but they only get one of those two teams every year, and then the rest of the slate is something like Rutgers, Michigan State, and Illinois or Northwestern in the average year. The rest of those strike me as exciting to Maryland fans in the same way Georgia Tech and BC would have been, but with greater potential for a loss. Either that or they're seeing Wisconsin or Nebraska show up and send fans home at halftime up 20 points. Penn State might draw and develop into a real rivalry that puts seats in the seats, too, I guess. But Virginia or someone else could/should have filled that role in the ACC. Maybe they'll draw more opposing fans, too, at least at first, by being close to D.C., but they're not going to get drivers there consistently, being 8+ hours from Ann Arbor. The worst possible result, which seems not terribly unlikely, is that the football culture at Maryland ends up sort of like the football culture at Indiana.

[DukeandMdFan]

Actually, this whole issue of filling up their FB stadium at Byrd was part of the rationale that you hear from MD fans in terms of justifying the move. Recall that the MD athletic department was in financial crisis beore the decision to bail on the ACC. A big part of it was the decision, several years ago, to greatly expand Byrd (and to borrow tens of millions to build the expansion), an expansion which included a large number of luxury boxes. As of last season a large number of those luxury boxes were still sitting empty for home games, as well as wide swaths of regular stadium seats. I want to say that they expanded it up to about 62.5K (??), which doesn't sound huge, but it does include quite a bunch of those pricey box seats, and they FULLY expect to fill them with teams like Michigan and OSU coming to town.

In hindsight, expanding Byrd was a very poor decision. It seemed risky at the time, but there were reasons why some believed that it would work. Maryland had achieved some recent football success. The ACC had already sold out its great basketball tradition in hopes of become a football conference. We were a BCS conference and added Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College. The economy was strong and housing prices in the DC area were very high - a lot of people felt "rich" and perhaps willing to buy expensive season tickets. A lot of companies in the DC area were doing well and might be willing to buy suites.

But, Maryland football, ACC football, and the economy have not performed as well as was expected.

[OldPhiKap]

In hindsight, expanding Byrd was a very poor decision. It seemed risky at the time, but there were reasons why some believed that it would work. Maryland had achieved some recent football success. The ACC had already sold out its great basketball tradition in hopes of become a football conference. We were a BCS conference and added Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College. The economy was strong and housing prices in the DC area were very high - a lot of people felt "rich" and perhaps willing to buy expensive season tickets. A lot of companies in the DC area were doing well and might be willing to buy suites.

But, Maryland football, ACC football, and the economy have not performed as well as was expected.

Excellent points, Duke/Md. Legalized gambling, gone wrong.

Football money has distorted college sports to an unholy degree. Maryland bought in at the absolute worst time, it turns out. Then sate money dried up, and they need the supposed lifeboat of the B##.

[Buckeye Devil]

I haven' t talked to too many Big 10/whatever it should be called fans that are that thrilled with adding Maryland to the league let alone Rutgers. I wasn't even too happy when they added Penn St. 20 years ago. I think to most residents in Big 10 land, the logical extension of the league has always been "Go West, Young Man" but not too far west-Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and of course the foray towards Texas several years ago. I for one am not happy about grafting in thuggish Terp fans into the mix. Maybe they can balance out the awful Wisconsin fans further west.

[devildeac]

I haven' t talked to too many Big 10/whatever it should be called fans that are that thrilled with adding Maryland to the league let alone Rutgers. I wasn't even too happy when they added Penn St. 20 years ago. I think to most residents in Big 10 land, the logical extension of the league has always been "Go West, Young Man" but not too far west-Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and of course the foray towards Texas several years ago. I for one am not happy about grafting in thuggish Terp fans into the mix. Maybe they can balance out the awful Wisconsin fans further west.

I just can't imagine what devastating effects it will have when the hooligans from College Park print up their first bunch of t-shirts denouncing one of their new "rivals" and we see 500-1000 new garments in gack mustard/gold and/or red saying "Muck Fichigan" on them:rolleyes:.

[davekay1971]

I just can't imagine what devastating effects it will have when the hooligans from College Park print up their first bunch of t-shirts denouncing one of their new "rivals" and we see 500-1000 new garments in gack mustard/gold and/or red saying "Muck Fichigan" on them:rolleyes:.

Somewhere out there is a Twerp fan drooling over the prospect of buying, and proudly wearing (probably to a family restaurant with plenty of kids around), his first "Buck the &uckeyes" shirt. I mean, it'll be so kewl to be able to exchange the first letters like in the classic and creative Duck Fook shirts, but this time it'll still actually have a naughty word in it!

Twerptastic!!!

And here we were thinking the Maryland fans wouldn't get much out of their conference change.

[DukeandMdFan]

I just can't imagine what devastating effects it will have when the hooligans from College Park print up their first bunch of t-shirts denouncing one of their new "rivals" and we see 500-1000 new garments in gack mustard/gold and/or red saying "Muck Fichigan" on them:rolleyes:.

I agree that those "_uck Fooever" shirts stopped being funny or clever a long time ago. Apparently, there is a new crop of freshman who must buy them every year. As has been noted on this board, some Duke fans have some anti-UNC cheers which they no longer find particularly funny or clever.

[DukeandMdFan]

I haven' t talked to too many Big 10/whatever it should be called fans that are that thrilled with adding Maryland to the league let alone Rutgers. I wasn't even too happy when they added Penn St. 20 years ago. I think to most residents in Big 10 land, the logical extension of the league has always been "Go West, Young Man" but not too far west-Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and of course the foray towards Texas several years ago. I for one am not happy about grafting in thuggish Terp fans into the mix. Maybe they can balance out the awful Wisconsin fans further west.

I think most Maryland fans are realistic that the other B1G schools aren't excited about Maryland joining their league and most of the ACC fans outside of the DC area won't particularly miss Maryland. Other than Maryand fans, the only people who will care are the fans of the other schools who live in the DC area who now will/will not have the opportunity to root for their teams who visit College Park. Other than that, the only significance to Maryland leaving is that it is another sign of the demise of the ACC. But, the days of listening to Bones McKinney, with Holly Farm commercials, and the Sail with the Pilot jingle have long past.

One side effect of the huge success of March Madness is that the rest of the college basketball season seems far less important than it used to be. Even getting tickets to the ACC tournament isn't a big dieal anymore. Or, maybe I'm just old...

[dpslaw]

As the red-headed stepchildren of the B1G, Maryland and Rutgers could establish quite a rivalry.

[J.Blink]

I think most Maryland fans are realistic that the other B1G schools aren't excited about Maryland joining their league and most of the ACC fans outside of the DC area won't particularly miss Maryland.

You lost me at "Maryland fans" and "realistic." :p

In all seriousness, I can't say I'll really miss MD (other than, as you say, perhaps the last nail in the coffin of the "old ACC"); however, I don't agree with those who think leaving the ACC is necessarily a terrible move for MD.

[Class of '94]

I think most Maryland fans are realistic that the other B1G schools aren't excited about Maryland joining their league and most of the ACC fans outside of the DC area won't particularly miss Maryland. Other than Maryand fans, the only people who will care are the fans of the other schools who live in the DC area who now will/will not have the opportunity to root for their teams who visit College Park. Other than that, the only significance to Maryland leaving is that it is another sign of the demise of the ACC. But, the days of listening to Bones McKinney, with Holly Farm commercials, and the Sail with the Pilot jingle have long past.

One side effect of the huge success of March Madness is that the rest of the college basketball season seems far less important than it used to be. Even getting tickets to the ACC tournament isn't a big dieal anymore. Or, maybe I'm just old...

But I care about MD leaving and I'm an ACC fan that is not in the DC area. That said, I respectfully doubt that the MD leaving signifies the demise of the ACC. When you make s statement like that, I think it furthers the perception of MD fans having an over-inflated view of how important MD is to the ACC. Don't get me wrong, as a founding member, MD has been important to the ACC; but to say that MD leaving signals the demise of the ACC is blowing it out of proportion imo. I'm going to miss MD as I've stated many times; but it would've been far more crippling to the ACC had any combination of UNC, UVA and GT left for the BIG. That would've far more likely signaled the demise of the ACC than MD leaving. And let's be completely real and honest, the reason that the BIG wanted MD and Rutgers was for their respective TV markets; and not for their athletic programs or academic accomplishments.

As far as the ACCT is concerned, I think with the additions of Syracuse, ND, Pitt and Louisville (in 2014), the ACCT will be a very big deal again. I think MD fans will get a taste of renewed intensity and desirability of the ACCT next season as they walk out the door. Living in BIG country, I can tell you that the atmosphere (and desirability to attend) at the BIG tournament is not as good as the current ACCT (prior to influx of new schools). This past season was unusual in that it was the first time in the years that the tournament was sold out; and when Mich and Mich St bowed out early, there was plenty of empty seats in the United Center for the championship game on Sunday.

For me, it all goes back to this: If MD wants to leave, then leave; but don't talk crap about the conference (the ACC) on the way out; and don't make statements about why you're leaving that aren't true in order to mask the fact that the reason you're leaving is because you need the money. MD will face the same challenges and supposed lack of rivalries in the BIG that they had in the ACC. The only difference is that they'll supposedly make more money dealing with those challenges; and apparently that was ok with MD's administrators and AD.

[Class of '94]

You lost me at "Maryland fans" and "realistic." :p

In all seriousness, I can't say I'll really miss MD (other than, as you say, perhaps the last nail in the coffin of the "old ACC"); however, I don't agree with those who think leaving the ACC is necessarily a terrible move for MD.

I don't think it's a bad move for MD to go the BIG financially. If MD desperately needs money for their athletic department, I think the move to the BIG made sense based on the financial projections the BIG are giving them.

I don't think it was necessarily the best move for their non-revenue and Olympic sports teams from a travel and geographic perspective; but again it was never about these concerns. It has always been about getting additional money to hopefully get out the red.

As far as the old ACC vs the new ACC, I've never really been caught up in all that because change is inevitable in life and no conference today is the same as it was 30-40yrs ago. Heck, the BIG is not like it used to be; and the additions of Nebraska, Penn St, MD and Rutgers is changing the BIG's culture in much the same way teams like VT, Miami, BC, FLA St, and now Syracuse, Pitt, ND and Louisville have imo.

[howardlander]

As far as the old ACC vs the new ACC, I've never really been caught up in all that because change is inevitable in life and no conference today is the same as it was 30-40yrs ago. Heck, the BIG is not like it used to be; and the additions of Nebraska, Penn St, MD and Rutgers is changing the BIG's culture in much the same way teams like VT, Miami, BC, FLA St, and now Syracuse, Pitt, ND and Louisville have imo.

All true, but I think for myself and probably other folks, we miss the old 8 or 9 team ACC with the double round robin basketball regular season. Sacrificed for football that a lot of us don't really care about...

Howard

[Class of '94]

All true, but I think for myself and probably other folks, we miss the old 8 or 9 team ACC with the double round robin basketball regular season. Sacrificed for football that a lot of us don't really care about...

Howard

I hear you; and agree. I was Born and raised in Durham, and grew up in the old ACC (when it was just 8 schools) with the round-robin basketball schedule; and loved it. I too miss it now; but similar to the front page article on Swofford, I get why the Acc has changed. I don't want to see the ACC destroyed or made irrelevalant; even it means having to sacrifice some of the ACC's traditional formats like the round-robin schedule. Don't get me wrong.....I hate that it had to happen; and I know that I too sound like I sold out to the whims of football; but I think the changes that the ACC made had to happen to keep it sustainable in this country's college sports landscape.

I personally wished MD had made the choice to stay and work it out with the ACC to stay. Ironically, MD was one of the main schools consistently voting for expansion (unlike Duke and UNC) which lead to the changes within the ACC; and now they're leaving. Interestingly enough, it looks like MD leaving helped to galvanize the remaining schools to the point that allowed the GOR agreement to occur and stabilize the ACC. It might not have happened had MD stayed. That said, I am extremely interested to see the integration of the new schools that are coming. I think this second wave of expansion is actually a better fit for the league; and it will balance out the football needs with increased basketball strength (along with gains in various non-revenue Olympic sports).

[Duvall]

Maryland money misery maintained. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/despite-move-to-greener-pastures-marylands-lean-years-likely-to-continue/2013/08/13/1ea58258-0423-11e3-88d6-d5795fab4637_story.html?hpid=z2)


Maryland wanted to leave the ACC for the rarified air of the Big Ten, the Congressional Country Club of conferences – exclusive and pricy. The ACC responded by saying sure, see ya, but first pay the $52 million exit fee. Maryland said no, not surprisingly, given that it doesn’t have $52 million. The ACC responded by withholding Maryland’s share of ACC revenues – about $15 million during the last academic year – as the litigation rolls on through the courts.

Even when Maryland is finally a full Big Ten member, it’s not going to rain money in College Park. For instance, Maryland doesn’t become a full equity partner in the Big Ten Network until July 1, 2020. Because potential TV viewers were what made Maryland attractive to the Big Ten in the first place, that seems onerous, although Rutgers and Nebraska face the same wait.

[opossum]

I think part of what drove Maryland over the edge was academic prestige. In the ACC, deservedly or not (and I'd say not), Maryland was at the "dumb kids' table," being compared unfavorably to UVA, UNC, and Tech among the public schools. The Big Ten is more egalitarian, with a bunch of decent big public universities with good STEM programs and fine medical schools kind of in big muddle with only Michigan and maybe Wisconsin standing out as any brainier than the rest, and only one elite private school in Northwestern. Maryland fits in well with that Big Ten muddle of decent-to-good state schools, and might benefit better among non-athlete prospects from associations with Illinois or Rutgers than by their previous associations with UVA and UNC.

I do find it kind of ironic that we added three schools north of "Alaska," (BC doesn't seem to count) bringing the Terps closer to the geographic center, right before they left. The icing on the cake would be if Penn State joined the ACC anyway.

[Duvall]

I think part of what drove Maryland over the edge was academic prestige. In the ACC, deservedly or not (and I'd say not), Maryland was at the "dumb kids' table," being compared unfavorably to UVA, UNC, and Tech among the public schools. The Big Ten is more egalitarian, with a bunch of decent big public universities with good STEM programs and fine medical schools kind of in big muddle with only Michigan and maybe Wisconsin standing out as any brainier than the rest, and only one elite private school in Northwestern. Maryland fits in well with that Big Ten muddle of decent-to-good state schools, and might benefit better among non-athlete prospects from associations with Illinois or Rutgers than by their previous associations with UVA and UNC.

I do find it kind of ironic that we added three schools north of "Alaska," (BC doesn't seem to count) bringing the Terps closer to the geographic center, right before they left. The icing on the cake would be if Penn State joined the ACC anyway.

Penn State is the only school excited about adding Rutgers to the Big Ten. Now that they are no longer the Big Ten's eastern frontier they'll never leave.

[opossum]

Penn State is the only school excited about adding Rutgers to the Big Ten. Now that they are no longer the Big Ten's eastern frontier they'll never leave.

They ought to be excited, it seems it was done for their benefit alone.

[opossum]

Penn State is the only school excited about adding Rutgers to the Big Ten. Now that they are no longer the Big Ten's eastern frontier they'll never leave.

We'll see.

[miramar]

I think part of what drove Maryland over the edge was academic prestige. In the ACC, deservedly or not (and I'd say not), Maryland was at the "dumb kids' table," being compared unfavorably to UVA, UNC, and Tech among the public schools.

They may have been at the dumb kid's table, but they certainly weren't at the training table. According to Maryland's official report, "All student-athletes who receive full board as a component of their athletic scholarships should be provided with meal plans that offer 21 healthy meals per week" (7). I guess they were getting potato chips and Gatorade for lunch.

[luvdahops]

I hear you; and agree. I was Born and raised in Durham, and grew up in the old ACC (when it was just 8 schools) with the round-robin basketball schedule; and loved it. I too miss it now; but similar to the front page article on Swofford, I get why the Acc has changed. I don't want to see the ACC destroyed or made irrelevalant; even it means having to sacrifice some of the ACC's traditional formats like the round-robin schedule. Don't get me wrong.....I hate that it had to happen; and I know that I too sound like I sold out to the whims of football; but I think the changes that the ACC made had to happen to keep it sustainable in this country's college sports landscape.

I personally wished MD had made the choice to stay and work it out with the ACC to stay. Ironically, MD was one of the main schools consistently voting for expansion (unlike Duke and UNC) which lead to the changes within the ACC; and now they're leaving. Interestingly enough, it looks like MD leaving helped to galvanize the remaining schools to the point that allowed the GOR agreement to occur and stabilize the ACC. It might not have happened had MD stayed. That said, I am extremely interested to see the integration of the new schools that are coming. I think this second wave of expansion is actually a better fit for the league; and it will balance out the football needs with increased basketball strength (along with gains in various non-revenue Olympic sports).

I agree with a lot of the points you make. I know I am in the minority, but as an '85 grad and relative old-timer, I will miss Maryland. Whether or not they ever rose to the level of true rival for Duke, they do have solid traditions in both revenue sports, not to mention lax and women's hoops, with guys like John Lucas, Len Bias, Juan Dixon, Randy White, Boomer and EJ Henderson - as well as Lefty, Gary and Bobby Ross - among the more memorable players/coaches of their eras, if not all-time in the ACC. For me, the Terps have been closer to the core of the "old ACC" than Clemson or GT for sure, and probably Wake and UVA too. It was also natural for the conference to have an outpost in the DC area, even if the tourneys there were generally underwhelming.

And I am also more positive about the second wave of expansion, for the reasons you lay out. If ND ever becomes a full football member, it will likely be a home run.

[TruBlu]

I know I am in the minority, but as an '85 grad and relative old-timer, I will miss Maryland.

I understand and respect your feelings on the Terps, but I once had an abscessed tooth. I miss it much the same way that I will miss the Terps.;)

[ricks68]

Will they have to change the name of a building now that Maryland is leaving the conference?

Or, how do they decide on who gets put into which school's building?

Or, was the real reason we added more conference foes a conspiracy by the Fedral Gommint to come up with an excuse to build more buildings?

Or, (you know how to carry it on from here. And, either questions or answers I think would be the appropriate):rolleyes:


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/14/20024324-i-still-believe-in-resurrection-jesse-jackson-jr-gets-2-12-years-in-prison?lite


"Former Illinois lawmaker Jesse Jackson Jr. was sentenced Wednesday to 30 months in prison after pleading guilty to spending $750,000 in campaign funds on personal items."


"If Jackson is placed in a cell at Butner, he will be on the same compound as white-collar criminal Bernie Madoff, who is prisoner 61727-054 in the federal system. All (the) of the buildings on the compound are named after Atlantic Coast Conference schools, and the prison is about an hour drive from Jackson’s alma mater, North Carolina A&T."

ricks

[ricks68]

I agree with a lot of the points you make. I know I am in the minority, but as an '85 grad and relative old-timer, I will miss Maryland. Whether or not they ever rose to the level of true rival for Duke, they do have solid traditions in both revenue sports, not to mention lax and women's hoops, with guys like John Lucas, Len Bias, Juan Dixon, Randy White, Boomer and EJ Henderson - as well as Lefty, Gary and Bobby Ross - among the more memorable players/coaches of their eras, if not all-time in the ACC. For me, the Terps have been closer to the core of the "old ACC" than Clemson or GT for sure, and probably Wake and UVA too. It was also natural for the conference to have an outpost in the DC area, even if the tourneys there were generally underwhelming.

And I am also more positive about the second wave of expansion, for the reasons you lay out. If ND ever becomes a full football member, it will likely be a home run.

You're an old timer? What? Did you enter Duke at around 50?;) Or, did a relative attend Duke well before you?:)

ricks (a real Crustie)

[OldPhiKap]

You're an old timer? What? Did you enter Duke at around 50?;) Or, did a relative attend Duke well before you?:)

ricks (a real Crustie)

Relative old timers remember when Lefty coached at Maryland.

Real old timers remember when Lefty played at Duke.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I did want to say an official "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-Seeeeeeeeeya"!!!!!!!!!
Today they are no longer in the ACC. (Welcome aboard, Louisville.)

[ricks68]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I did want to say an official "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-Seeeeeeeeeya"!!!!!!!!!
Today they are no longer in the ACC. (Welcome aboard, Louisville.)

Yay! As Dean Wormer said: "I hate those guys." (My reference to so many of their nasty fans that I have come in contact with.)

ricks

[Duvall]

Doesn't this belong on the Off-Topic Board? Maryland's rivalries have nothing to do with Duke.

[Here is a Turtle]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I did want to say an official "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-Seeeeeeeeeya"!!!!!!!!!
Today they are no longer in the ACC. (Welcome aboard, Louisville.)

*smells giant pile of cash*

Won't miss the ACC at all.

*leaves*

[Kdogg]

*smells giant pile of cash*

Won't miss the ACC at all.

*leaves*

Yet you feel the need to comment. If you have to look back on your way out, there's some regret. Plus, don't count that money yet. How many years will it take Maryland to pay off all that debt.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

*smells giant pile of cash*

Won't miss the ACC at all.

*leaves*

Because cash can buy sold out games, hot gyms with OT clashes in January, opposing team vitriol, tournament matchups, coaches who hate each other but respect each other, players who see each other once, twice, three times... four times a year?

Hope the cash grab is worth it. Enjoy Wisconsin games in February.

[Henderson]

Maryland, Maryland... trying to place it. It's been a while since I thought of that. Is that the school with the horrible finances, boorish and violent fans, all the players deserting, stupid turtle mascot, ugly flag, tried laughably to elevate itself by claiming a rivalry with Duke, and owes a ton of money to the ACC but is trying to welch? Or am I thinking of some other Maryland?

[hurleyfor3]

July 1, right? Finally time to lock this one.