Duke Recruits 2014 and 2015 - Report from Nike EYBL #1 Los Angeles

[tommy]

Mods - I know there are threads for both 2014 and 2015 recruiting, but because my post and subject matter deal with both 2014 and 2015 recruits, I started this thread. I didn't think it would fit well in either of the existing threads since it discusses kids in both classes.

So I know a lot of you guys may not care so much about the specifics of some of the Duke recruits' games, at least until they commit, but I know some do. I went to today's (Saturday) session of the Nike EYBL, which consists of 40 of the top AAU teams in the nation playing four games over three days, specifically to watch the Duke targets, and thought I'd give my impressions if anyone cares. I'll be back for most of tomorrow's session as well, and will file another report tomorrow night, hopefully. I missed Friday night's session, so the most I'll see any of the kids play is three of their four games, and because there's so much action going on at the same time, it's impossible for one person to see everything he or she would like.

Before discussing the players, I have to say it's a pretty amazing scene. In addition to 8 games being played simultaneously by almost all the top high school talent in the nation, you have all the top college coaches in the country there, under one roof, most with assistants too, and they're all just sitting next to each other in the first or second row of a little set of bleachers, chatting amiably with each other or with various assorted other people, meandering over to check out another game, wandering back, and just hanging out. You're sitting here watching these games and all the coaches are, like, right there next to you or right directly in front of you, such that you can overhear or eavesdrop on conversations, see what they're doing, even what they're writing down in their notes. And you can see who's friendly with who, who not so much, who's watching who, all that kind of thing. Interesting. While I was there today, just off the top of my head I saw the following coaches in attendance: K, Wojo, Roy, Steve Robinson, Gottfried, Leonard Hamilton, Tony Bennett, and Jeff Bzdelik from the ACC. Then, Calipari and Orlando Antigua from UK, Jim Boeheim, Tom Izzo, Bill Self, John Beilein, Tom Crean, Jamie Dixon, Frank Haith, Mark Few, Tubby Smith, Steve Alford, Johnny Dawkins, Chris Collins, Frank Martin, Bruce Weber, Shaka Smart, Sean Miller, Josh Pastner, Mike Brey, Richard Pitino, Lorenzo Romar, Tommy Amaker, and a ton more. Other than at the Final Four, I don't know where else you'd ever see all those guys under one roof. Only major guys I didn't see there were Thad Matta, John Thompson III, Billy Donovan, Rick Pitino, Brad Stevens, Buzz Williams, Bo Ryan, Jim Larranaga, and that's all I can think of.

OK so the players. First of all, it was disappointing but a number of kids I really wanted to see didn't play. Jahlil Okafor is out with a sprained ankle Trey Lyles didn't play with the Indy Speice squad, not sure why. 2016 Harry Giles was not running with CP3 -- I think he was at another tournament. 2015 Malachi Richardson didn't play for Team Final -- "lower extremity injury." Had to laugh at that description, as I thought we'd heard the last of that oh-so-vague description. I wanted to see his Team Final teammate Tyus Battle (2016) play too, but he wasn't on the roster for this weekend. And 2015 Mickey Mitchell, who I'm not sure Duke is even still recruiting, was not on the Texas Titans roster. Not sure -- may still be recovering from his ACL injury. Kavon Looney's team was not involved in this tournament. But even without these kids, there was plenty to see from kids Duke is interested in.

I saw Devin Booker play almost two full games. He's a legit 6'4" shooting guard out of Mississippi, good size and frame. He's athletic, moves fluidly with and without the ball, and jumps pretty well. He's hampered in that his Alabama Challenge team isn't very good, but he doesn't get down when his teammates make a bad play. I like that. In the first game today, his handle was kind of loose, causing him to make several early turnovers, and he ended the game with six turnovers. He's a shooting guard but has to handle it a lot on this team because he's the best ballhandler they have, probably. He is quick enough and his handle is good enough, though, that he can get into the lane. And he is a willing passer, definitely. But make no mistake about it, this kid is a lights out shooter. While he doesn't force shots, he is not afraid to shoot with a man in his face, from distance, whether it be catch-and-shoot or off the dribble. And when he gets one up, he is nails. Very impressive shooter. In his first game he went 6 for 11 for 14 points. I don't have his stats for his second game, but I'm sure he had more than 14.

I was a bit concerned about him defensively. He plays his man tightly, right in his shirt, and projects intensity. But even though he is trying to apply pressure and lock down his man, and even though he is athletic and moves well, his man repeatedly beat him into the lane. I think this is more a matter of technique rather than physical limitation, though. He'll need some work to improve the results he's getting defensively, but like I say, he has the tools and (apparently) the desire to be a good defensive player.

What really bothered me, though, was that Duke did not have a coach at Booker's first game. I actually didn't see any Duke coaches at any of the early games, which started at 9:30 AM. I know Duke's banquet was Friday night, but still. Why was the banquet Friday night if the coaches needed to be in LA on Saturday morning? All those other coaches got here. I'm assuming there was a good reason, or at least I hope there was, because just being there, giving face time, showing these kids that you care enough -- that's big in recruiting. Where were we? Not there. Instead, Calipari, Izzo, Roy, Enfield, Fox, Haith and others were there watching this game up close and personal. Now some of them may have been there for other kids, not Booker, but some were definitely there for Booker. Kids notice.

K and Wojo were there front and center for Booker's second game, along with Izzo, Roy (now in a light blue sweater vest; oy) Beilien, Haith, Fox of Georgia and Stallings of Vanderbilt. K stayed the whole time but Wojo left midway through the first half. Paging Jeff Capel. Where was he all day today?

Calipari did leave Booker's first game partway through to go over and watch Stanley Johnson, out of Mater Dei, playing with the Oakland Soldiers. I did too, and watched him again later in the day. Again, Duke was not at Stanley's early game at all, and wasn't there for the beginning of his second game either, though like I said Wojo did go over midway through the first half and watched the rest of the game. Before Wojo did that, I was starting to think that Duke is not in the mix so much for Johnson, backing off of him, because they weren't even watching him in that second game either, but I guess maybe we still are hanging around. But Steve Alford and Sean Miller were sure there for Johnson. Both games.

And I have to say, Johnson is a beast. He's a well-muscled 6'6", and very athletic. He is just a man out there; he's a guy that when you watch him play for five minutes you say to yourself, "I'd go to war with that guy." He's rangy, strong, can handle for a SF, takes it very strong to the hole. His Oakland Soldiers team lost two tough games today, and Stanley did have a chance to save them in the second one. He got fouled on a 3 when they were down 3 with ten seconds to go. He missed the first, then made the other two, and when the opponent made only 1 of 2 at the other end, Johnson got the ball at his own end with about 4 seconds to play, drove the length of the court but had to take an off balance, contested reverse-type shot for the tie that just wasn't going to go. Too bad. In any event, I would love to see us be on Johnson's for-real short list. Especially with the new teams coming into the ACC, we're going to have to be physically tougher, and Johnson combines real skills with length and toughness. Pretty good combination.

I had a scheduling glitch and didn't realize that Justise Winslow and his Houston Hoops squad was playing at the time they were playing. So I missed his first game, when he scored 17 points on 7 of 9 shooting. I also had to leave before his night game tonight, but heard he played very well again. I'll be sure to catch him tomorrow.

Speaking of guys not getting watched by the Duke staff, at all, there was Theo Pinson, running with CP3. I just have to believe there's some distance between Duke and Pinson, or at least more distance than there used to be. But Theo is very talented. He'll be a good or even a very good player in college, and I still think he'd be a really good get for Duke. He's a legit 6'6" , a lanky, long, rangy wing. Very athletic, jumps well, gets up and down, and has a variety of moves to get himself to the hoop. One thing I definitely noticed is that Pinson talks a lot of smack out on the court, in particular on defense. You can tell he loves the game, but with all the pressure on him right now, all the directions he's being pulled, it's almost like being on the floor is his escape or his sanctuary. But I'm not a psychologist and I don't know Theo, so what do I know? He had 19 and 6 in his opener. Tom Crean -- who nobody else even talks to -- was there front and center. Others watching this game included Steve Robinson, Frank Martin, Lorenzo Romar, Mark Few, John Beilein, and Andy Enfield. Again, with the exception of Crean and Robinson, those other guys could've been there to watch other prospects.

Now, to go to a happier place, let's talk about Tyus Jones. If he becomes a Blue Devil, I predict there will be much man-love for him on these boards. I just really, really like what I see from this kid. I know that he is a very humble, down to earth kid, not into the bling and the handlers and the attention and all the rest of it. He's a regular kid. But that game of his. Wow. He is very, very smooth with the ball. His head is always up and his handle is excellent; he gets into the lane with ease against any defender, his passes have a "snap" to them that just seems different than a lot of other kids. Another thing I like about him -- a lot -- is that he doesn't feel the need to make the spectacular play all the time. He is content to make the simple, easy pass if it is the right pass, as it often is. He sets up his teammates and gives it up to them willingly. Not a selfish bone in his body.

And when necessary, he can score. His outside shot is solid, and he controls the ball so well that he can get into the lane easily too, and he scored several times in the lane over much bigger players. He sees the floor very well, both on the drive-and-kick and when he is squeezing a pass into a tight spot inside. When you watch this kid play, it's funny because at the same time he is smooth and making just solid pass after solid pass, right play after right play, you also find yourself saying "sweet pass!" an awful lot.

Unfortunately, Tyus' Howard Pulley team played zone for most of the game, so I couldn't tell much about Tyus on defense. It wasn't the most aggressive zone I've ever seen, let's just put it that way.

In the first game I saw him play in, he had 17 points on 8-of-12 shooting and 6 assists, with just one turnover. (He had 11 assists in his game Friday night that I didn't see.) Taking in this game, along with Coach K, were Mike Brey and Tony Bennett (both of whom chatted with K almost the whole game) plus Izzo, Richard Pitino, Scott Drew, Fred Hoiberg, Johnny D, Chris Collins, and then Bill Self got there towards the end.

Tyus' Howard Pulley team played Boo Williams in that first game, and Boo Williams has a very interesting prospect that Duke may be interested in. Thon Maker is a 2016 kid who originally comes from Sudan, by way of Australia. He's 7 feet tall and maybe 200-210 pounds. Very thin. But extremely long, very very long arms, and he is athletic. He is a real eraser back there. He doesn't have strong moves to the hoop yet, but his shooting form is pretty good for a kid with that kind of frame. He did hit a couple of J's from the free throw line, and I hate to say it but he looked just like Gorgui Dieng in doing it. Big thing with him though is his ability to block and alter shots. He had 14 and 9 in the game I saw, along with two blocks, but he had six blocks on Friday night. Gotta keep an eye on this guy.

Another kid to watch is Elijah Thomas, a 2015 PF out of Texas, playing with Team Texas. He's 6'9" and the body is big. Still has some baby fat to lose, though I understand he's already lost about 30 pounds. Broad shouldered and strong, so once he tightens up, look out. He's a lefty and has some very good moves inside for a young player. I saw a little lefty jump hook, and I saw him take it strong to the hoop off the dribble several times He passes out of the double smartly. His shooting form is not great; awkward at the line because his feet are almost touching each other. This, of course, can be fixed. But the kid battles hard and he has talent. It's hard to tell, of course, but his demeanor on the court was that of a nice guy. Hopefully not too nice, cuz you want some "killer" in there too. Again, with the changes in the conference, we're going to need some big guys with round shoulders. Like this one.

Thomas had a strong game against Joel Berry's E1T1 squad when I was watching, and then in a late game after I left I heard he played very, very well against Cliff Alexander, the 2014 center who is huge and very talented, playing for Jahlil Okafor's MacIrvin Fire squad. (Alexander, in his earlier game, had been a man among boys.) In Thomas' game that I saw against E1T1, again no Duke presence there, but Bill Self, Tubby and Steve Robinson were right there.

Now, to the not so good. Grayson Allen. I don't know how to say this, so I'll just say it. The kid was not impressive. At all. First of all, they list him at 6'5". He's not even close. He's maybe 6'4" but I wouldn't be surprised if he's more like 6'3" or so. OK, whatever. But in his first game -- with K in the front row -- the opponent went right at him on defense, and Allen couldn't compete. He was too late going for a steal, he got outjumped by a smaller man for a ball in the air in the lane, leading to an and-one, and he was beaten to the hoop off the dribble a number of times. He just doesn't have good lateral quickness. And this is AAU ball, not high major college, folks.

On offense, his handle was OK, but he's supposed to be a shooter. In the first half he only got up three shots, all 3 pointers. The first two clanged off the side of the rim badly, and the third was an airball. Pfffft. He had a nice dish in transition, but really the kid was just no factor in the game, finishing with 4 points on 2-6 shooting, 1 rebound, and 2 assists. To cap it off, he made a really bad defensive play at the end. Allen was pressing Rashad Vaughan (bigtime player, by the way) fullcourt with like 20 seconds to go as Vaughan was trying to get open for a pass to then bring it up. Vaughan gave him a little shove, not too heavy, but it just knocked Allen to the floor, freeing Vaughan to then go long for an easy long pass and uncontested layup to clinch the game. Again, oy.

In addition to K and Wojo, other coaches watching this display included Johnny D, Richard Pitino (who looks 16 years old), Frank Martin, Few, Bzdelik, Bennett, Roy, and Fox. Richard Pitino, by the way, walked right past K as K was sitting in the front row before the game started and didn't even acknowledge K's presence. Most of these coaches are friendly or at least make the effort to appear friendly and collegial. Not Pitino the younger. Hatin' that guy already.

I watched a little of Allen's second game -- again in front of K -- while I was watching Elijah Thomas, sort of standing between the two courts. More of the same, really, from Allen. His coach was doing a lot of offense for defense substituting involving Allen, taking him out down the stretch for defensive purposes. Which I didn't understand, since he wasn't doing anything offensively either. The other thing that bugged me about Allen was his facial expressions and body language. Very flat, unemotional, like he didn't even want to be out there. Sometimes it almost looked like he wanted to cry. Folks: the second coming of J.J. Redick, this is not.

Listen, Coach K and his staff have forgotten more about the game of basketball than I will ever know, but I don't know how they could've been watching Grayson Allen today and not said to themselves, "what were we thinking when we offered this kid?" I was sure wondering that. I hope he doesn't grab that scholarship offer, because I don't think we can win with him. Even if he can shoot better than he did today, he's a liability in pretty much every other area. Maybe he was sick, maybe his girlfriend broke up with him or his dog died or maybe something else was going on for him. I'm willing to be open to those possibilities. But if this is the player that he is, I really can't understand Duke's interest in him.

When you compare him to the other 2014 SG that Duke watched today, that being Devin Booker, well, there is no comparison. Booker is stronger, he's a far better athlete, his handle is better, his shot (at least today) was way, way better. Booker struggled defensively today, but so did Allen, and it's just obvious that the raw material that there is to work with with Booker is just better than the raw material they'd have to work with with Allen. Again, I sure hope there was a great reason why we weren't front and center Friday night and Saturday morning for Booker, and why we seem to be moving away from a guy like Theo Pinson and towards a guy like Grayson Allen, because to me -- and I'm just a fan, but one who has played and watched a lot of basketball over the last 30 years -- Allen is not in their league.

OK that's it for now. I'll try to write something up after tomorrow's action. Hope you guys have found this interesting or informative, even a little.

[MChambers]

Great report!

[CatDevil]

I really enjoyed sharing this with the family. Cannot wait until your next update. Keep 'em coming!!

[budwom]

Mods - I know there are threads for both 2014 and 2015 recruiting, but because my post and subject matter deal with both 2014 and 2015 recruits, I started this thread. I didn't think it would fit well in either of the existing threads since it discusses kids in both classes.

So I know a lot of you guys may not care so much about the specifics of some of the Duke recruits' games, at least until they commit, but I know some do. I went to today's (Saturday) session of the Nike EYBL, which consists of 40 of the top AAU teams in the nation playing four games over three days, specifically to watch the Duke targets, and thought I'd give my impressions if anyone cares. I'll be back for most of tomorrow's session as well, and will file another report tomorrow night, hopefully. I missed Friday night's session, so the most I'll see any of the kids play is three of their four games, and because there's so much action going on at the same time, it's impossible for one person to see everything he or she would like.

Before discussing the players, I have to say it's a pretty amazing scene. In addition to 8 games being played simultaneously by almost all the top high school talent in the nation, you have all the top college coaches in the country there, under one roof, most with assistants too, and they're all just sitting next to each other in the first or second row of a little set of bleachers, chatting amiably with each other or with various assorted other people, meandering over to check out another game, wandering back, and just hanging out. You're sitting here watching these games and all the coaches are, like, right there next to you or right directly in front of you, such that you can overhear or eavesdrop on conversations, see what they're doing, even what they're writing down in their notes. And you can see who's friendly with who, who not so much, who's watching who, all that kind of thing. Interesting. While I was there today, just off the top of my head I saw the following coaches in attendance: K, Wojo, Roy, Steve Robinson, Gottfried, Leonard Hamilton, Tony Bennett, and Jeff Bzdelik from the ACC. Then, Calipari and Orlando Antigua from UK, Jim Boeheim, Tom Izzo, Bill Self, John Beilein, Tom Crean, Jamie Dixon, Frank Haith, Mark Few, Tubby Smith, Steve Alford, Johnny Dawkins, Chris Collins, Frank Martin, Bruce Weber, Shaka Smart, Sean Miller, Josh Pastner, Mike Brey, Richard Pitino, Lorenzo Romar, Tommy Amaker, and a ton more. Other than at the Final Four, I don't know where else you'd ever see all those guys under one roof. Only major guys I didn't see there were Thad Matta, John Thompson III, Billy Donovan, Rick Pitino, Brad Stevens, Buzz Williams, Bo Ryan, Jim Larranaga, and that's all I can think of.

OK so the players. First of all, it was disappointing but a number of kids I really wanted to see didn't play. Jahlil Okafor is out with a sprained ankle Trey Lyles didn't play with the Indy Speice squad, not sure why. 2016 Harry Giles was not running with CP3 -- I think he was at another tournament. 2015 Malachi Richardson didn't play for Team Final -- "lower extremity injury." Had to laugh at that description, as I thought we'd heard the last of that oh-so-vague description. I wanted to see his Team Final teammate Tyus Battle (2016) play too, but he wasn't on the roster for this weekend. And 2015 Mickey Mitchell, who I'm not sure Duke is even still recruiting, was not on the Texas Titans roster. Not sure -- may still be recovering from his ACL injury. Kavon Looney's team was not involved in this tournament. But even without these kids, there was plenty to see from kids Duke is interested in.

I saw Devin Booker play almost two full games. He's a legit 6'4" shooting guard out of Mississippi, good size and frame. He's athletic, moves fluidly with and without the ball, and jumps pretty well. He's hampered in that his Alabama Challenge team isn't very good, but he doesn't get down when his teammates make a bad play. I like that. In the first game today, his handle was kind of loose, causing him to make several early turnovers, and he ended the game with six turnovers. He's a shooting guard but has to handle it a lot on this team because he's the best ballhandler they have, probably. He is quick enough and his handle is good enough, though, that he can get into the lane. And he is a willing passer, definitely. But make no mistake about it, this kid is a lights out shooter. While he doesn't force shots, he is not afraid to shoot with a man in his face, from distance, whether it be catch-and-shoot or off the dribble. And when he gets one up, he is nails. Very impressive shooter. In his first game he went 6 for 11 for 14 points. I don't have his stats for his second game, but I'm sure he had more than 14.

I was a bit concerned about him defensively. He plays his man tightly, right in his shirt, and projects intensity. But even though he is trying to apply pressure and lock down his man, and even though he is athletic and moves well, his man repeatedly beat him into the lane. I think this is more a matter of technique rather than physical limitation, though. He'll need some work to improve the results he's getting defensively, but like I say, he has the tools and (apparently) the desire to be a good defensive player.

What really bothered me, though, was that Duke did not have a coach at Booker's first game. I actually didn't see any Duke coaches at any of the early games, which started at 9:30 AM. I know Duke's banquet was Friday night, but still. Why was the banquet Friday night if the coaches needed to be in LA on Saturday morning? All those other coaches got here. I'm assuming there was a good reason, or at least I hope there was, because just being there, giving face time, showing these kids that you care enough -- that's big in recruiting. Where were we? Not there. Instead, Calipari, Izzo, Roy, Enfield, Fox, Haith and others were there watching this game up close and personal. Now some of them may have been there for other kids, not Booker, but some were definitely there for Booker. Kids notice.

K and Wojo were there front and center for Booker's second game, along with Izzo, Roy (now in a light blue sweater vest; oy) Beilien, Haith, Fox of Georgia and Stallings of Vanderbilt. K stayed the whole time but Wojo left midway through the first half. Paging Jeff Capel. Where was he all day today?

Calipari did leave Booker's first game partway through to go over and watch Stanley Johnson, out of Mater Dei, playing with the Oakland Soldiers. I did too, and watched him again later in the day. Again, Duke was not at Stanley's early game at all, and wasn't there for the beginning of his second game either, though like I said Wojo did go over midway through the first half and watched the rest of the game. Before Wojo did that, I was starting to think that Duke is not in the mix so much for Johnson, backing off of him, because they weren't even watching him in that second game either, but I guess maybe we still are hanging around. But Steve Alford and Sean Miller were sure there for Johnson. Both games.

And I have to say, Johnson is a beast. He's a well-muscled 6'6", and very athletic. He is just a man out there; he's a guy that when you watch him play for five minutes you say to yourself, "I'd go to war with that guy." He's rangy, strong, can handle for a SF, takes it very strong to the hole. His Oakland Soldiers team lost two tough games today, and Stanley did have a chance to save them in the second one. He got fouled on a 3 when they were down 3 with ten seconds to go. He missed the first, then made the other two, and when the opponent made only 1 of 2 at the other end, Johnson got the ball at his own end with about 4 seconds to play, drove the length of the court but had to take an off balance, contested reverse-type shot for the tie that just wasn't going to go. Too bad. In any event, I would love to see us be on Johnson's for-real short list. Especially with the new teams coming into the ACC, we're going to have to be physically tougher, and Johnson combines real skills with length and toughness. Pretty good combination.

I had a scheduling glitch and didn't realize that Justise Winslow and his Houston Hoops squad was playing at the time they were playing. So I missed his first game, when he scored 17 points on 7 of 9 shooting. I also had to leave before his night game tonight, but heard he played very well again. I'll be sure to catch him tomorrow.

Speaking of guys not getting watched by the Duke staff, at all, there was Theo Pinson, running with CP3. I just have to believe there's some distance between Duke and Pinson, or at least more distance than there used to be. But Theo is very talented. He'll be a good or even a very good player in college, and I still think he'd be a really good get for Duke. He's a legit 6'6" , a lanky, long, rangy wing. Very athletic, jumps well, gets up and down, and has a variety of moves to get himself to the hoop. One thing I definitely noticed is that Pinson talks a lot of smack out on the court, in particular on defense. You can tell he loves the game, but with all the pressure on him right now, all the directions he's being pulled, it's almost like being on the floor is his escape or his sanctuary. But I'm not a psychologist and I don't know Theo, so what do I know? He had 19 and 6 in his opener. Tom Crean -- who nobody else even talks to -- was there front and center. Others watching this game included Steve Robinson, Frank Martin, Lorenzo Romar, Mark Few, John Beilein, and Andy Enfield. Again, with the exception of Crean and Robinson, those other guys could've been there to watch other prospects.

Now, to go to a happier place, let's talk about Tyus Jones. If he becomes a Blue Devil, I predict there will be much man-love for him on these boards. I just really, really like what I see from this kid. I know that he is a very humble, down to earth kid, not into the bling and the handlers and the attention and all the rest of it. He's a regular kid. But that game of his. Wow. He is very, very smooth with the ball. His head is always up and his handle is excellent; he gets into the lane with ease against any defender, his passes have a "snap" to them that just seems different than a lot of other kids. Another thing I like about him -- a lot -- is that he doesn't feel the need to make the spectacular play all the time. He is content to make the simple, easy pass if it is the right pass, as it often is. He sets up his teammates and gives it up to them willingly. Not a selfish bone in his body.

And when necessary, he can score. His outside shot is solid, and he controls the ball so well that he can get into the lane easily too, and he scored several times in the lane over much bigger players. He sees the floor very well, both on the drive-and-kick and when he is squeezing a pass into a tight spot inside. When you watch this kid play, it's funny because at the same time he is smooth and making just solid pass after solid pass, right play after right play, you also find yourself saying "sweet pass!" an awful lot.

Unfortunately, Tyus' Howard Pulley team played zone for most of the game, so I couldn't tell much about Tyus on defense. It wasn't the most aggressive zone I've ever seen, let's just put it that way.

In the first game I saw him play in, he had 17 points on 8-of-12 shooting and 6 assists, with just one turnover. (He had 11 assists in his game Friday night that I didn't see.) Taking in this game, along with Coach K, were Mike Brey and Tony Bennett (both of whom chatted with K almost the whole game) plus Izzo, Richard Pitino, Scott Drew, Fred Hoiberg, Johnny D, Chris Collins, and then Bill Self got there towards the end.

Tyus' Howard Pulley team played Boo Williams in that first game, and Boo Williams has a very interesting prospect that Duke may be interested in. Thon Maker is a 2016 kid who originally comes from Sudan, by way of Australia. He's 7 feet tall and maybe 200-210 pounds. Very thin. But extremely long, very very long arms, and he is athletic. He is a real eraser back there. He doesn't have strong moves to the hoop yet, but his shooting form is pretty good for a kid with that kind of frame. He did hit a couple of J's from the free throw line, and I hate to say it but he looked just like Gorgui Dieng in doing it. Big thing with him though is his ability to block and alter shots. He had 14 and 9 in the game I saw, along with two blocks, but he had six blocks on Friday night. Gotta keep an eye on this guy.

Another kid to watch is Elijah Thomas, a 2015 PF out of Texas, playing with Team Texas. He's 6'9" and the body is big. Still has some baby fat to lose, though I understand he's already lost about 30 pounds. Broad shouldered and strong, so once he tightens up, look out. He's a lefty and has some very good moves inside for a young player. I saw a little lefty jump hook, and I saw him take it strong to the hoop off the dribble several times He passes out of the double smartly. His shooting form is not great; awkward at the line because his feet are almost touching each other. This, of course, can be fixed. But the kid battles hard and he has talent. It's hard to tell, of course, but his demeanor on the court was that of a nice guy. Hopefully not too nice, cuz you want some "killer" in there too. Again, with the changes in the conference, we're going to need some big guys with round shoulders. Like this one.

Thomas had a strong game against Joel Berry's E1T1 squad when I was watching, and then in a late game after I left I heard he played very, very well against Cliff Alexander, the 2014 center who is huge and very talented, playing for Jahlil Okafor's MacIrvin Fire squad. (Alexander, in his earlier game, had been a man among boys.) In Thomas' game that I saw against E1T1, again no Duke presence there, but Bill Self, Tubby and Steve Robinson were right there.

Now, to the not so good. Grayson Allen. I don't know how to say this, so I'll just say it. The kid was not impressive. At all. First of all, they list him at 6'5". He's not even close. He's maybe 6'4" but I wouldn't be surprised if he's more like 6'3" or so. OK, whatever. But in his first game -- with K in the front row -- the opponent went right at him on defense, and Allen couldn't compete. He was too late going for a steal, he got outjumped by a smaller man for a ball in the air in the lane, leading to an and-one, and he was beaten to the hoop off the dribble a number of times. He just doesn't have good lateral quickness. And this is AAU ball, not high major college, folks.

On offense, his handle was OK, but he's supposed to be a shooter. In the first half he only got up three shots, all 3 pointers. The first two clanged off the side of the rim badly, and the third was an airball. Pfffft. He had a nice dish in transition, but really the kid was just no factor in the game, finishing with 4 points on 2-6 shooting, 1 rebound, and 2 assists. To cap it off, he made a really bad defensive play at the end. Allen was pressing Rashad Vaughan (bigtime player, by the way) fullcourt with like 20 seconds to go as Vaughan was trying to get open for a pass to then bring it up. Vaughan gave him a little shove, not too heavy, but it just knocked Allen to the floor, freeing Vaughan to then go long for an easy long pass and uncontested layup to clinch the game. Again, oy.

In addition to K and Wojo, other coaches watching this display included Johnny D, Richard Pitino (who looks 16 years old), Frank Martin, Few, Bzdelik, Bennett, Roy, and Fox. Richard Pitino, by the way, walked right past K as K was sitting in the front row before the game started and didn't even acknowledge K's presence. Most of these coaches are friendly or at least make the effort to appear friendly and collegial. Not Pitino the younger. Hatin' that guy already.

I watched a little of Allen's second game -- again in front of K -- while I was watching Elijah Thomas, sort of standing between the two courts. More of the same, really, from Allen. His coach was doing a lot of offense for defense substituting involving Allen, taking him out down the stretch for defensive purposes. Which I didn't understand, since he wasn't doing anything offensively either. The other thing that bugged me about Allen was his facial expressions and body language. Very flat, unemotional, like he didn't even want to be out there. Sometimes it almost looked like he wanted to cry. Folks: the second coming of J.J. Redick, this is not.

Listen, Coach K and his staff have forgotten more about the game of basketball than I will ever know, but I don't know how they could've been watching Grayson Allen today and not said to themselves, "what were we thinking when we offered this kid?" I was sure wondering that. I hope he doesn't grab that scholarship offer, because I don't think we can win with him. Even if he can shoot better than he did today, he's a liability in pretty much every other area. Maybe he was sick, maybe his girlfriend broke up with him or his dog died or maybe something else was going on for him. I'm willing to be open to those possibilities. But if this is the player that he is, I really can't understand Duke's interest in him.

When you compare him to the other 2014 SG that Duke watched today, that being Devin Booker, well, there is no comparison. Booker is stronger, he's a far better athlete, his handle is better, his shot (at least today) was way, way better. Booker struggled defensively today, but so did Allen, and it's just obvious that the raw material that there is to work with with Booker is just better than the raw material they'd have to work with with Allen. Again, I sure hope there was a great reason why we weren't front and center Friday night and Saturday morning for Booker, and why we seem to be moving away from a guy like Theo Pinson and towards a guy like Grayson Allen, because to me -- and I'm just a fan, but one who has played and watched a lot of basketball over the last 30 years -- Allen is not in their league.

OK that's it for now. I'll try to write something up after tomorrow's action. Hope you guys have found this interesting or informative, even a little.

Nice comprehensive report....but I think Allen may be playing on a bad ankle....I believe you vastly underestimate his athleticism....I think his offer sheet is a testament to his athleticism and talent....

[Turtleboy]

Nice comprehensive report......
It's possible to respond to a post without quoting it in its entirety. The simplest way is to erase the text you don't want to quote.

[Olympic Fan]

Nice, comprehensive report ...

As a guy who once covered a number of AAU events, I would offer one warning -- don't read too much into one game or one tournament.

[Kedsy]

Thanks for sharing, Tommy. Great report.

[Troublemaker]

Thanks, tommy! Hopefully you caught Allen on a bad day (or bad ankle, as speculated above) because he's likely to snap up Duke's schollie offer before Booker does, and I'm not sure Duke can take both.

[BD80]

Thanks, tommy! Hopefully you caught Allen on a bad day (or bad ankle, as speculated above) because he's likely to snap up Duke's schollie offer before Booker does, and I'm not sure Duke can take both.

Perhaps Allen is viewed as more of a four year contributer. Thornton and Dre are done next year, and Quinn, Sheed and Hood have at most 2 more years.

[Troublemaker]

Perhaps Allen is viewed as more of a four year contributer. Thornton and Dre are done next year, and Quinn, Sheed and Hood have at most 2 more years.

Indeed, we will be losing a lot of perimeter players within the next two years. However, we will still want Allen to be a much better player than the one described by tommy in his report. Especially if he's going to be here four years.

[jimsumner]

Allen has had ankle problems in recent months. Not sure of his current health.

[tommy]

Nice comprehensive report....but I think Allen may be playing on a bad ankle....I believe you vastly underestimate his athleticism....I think his offer sheet is a testament to his athleticism and talent....

Thanks. I know Allen has had a bum ankle earlier this year, but I didn't see him limping at all, I didn't see him wince, nothing like that. Not that you can always tell, but he didn't seem like he was having that sort of trouble. Nor did he ice immediately after the game, as other kids did. And I have to disagree with you: the fact that he got an offer is not evidence of his athleticism or of his talent level. (Nor is a mixtape for that matter.) There have been plenty of Duke players over the years, and indeed some on the current roster, who few would label as particularly "athletic."


Nice, comprehensive report ...

As a guy who once covered a number of AAU events, I would offer one warning -- don't read too much into one game or one tournament.

Thanks, and I totally agree. I have seen a number of these guys play prior to this weekend, and watched almost all of them multiple times this weekend. I know it's not like watching them 10 times or something, but it's not like my impressions -- and that's all they are, my impressions -- are based on just a couple of times up and down the floor either. I hope to see a number of them again this summer too, and am always open to changing my opinion. For example, I'm going to write another post in a minute discussing today's action, and you'll see that I had a very different impression of Austin Grandstaff today than I did yesterday. Much better. Kids have bad days -- I get that, for sure.



Thanks, tommy! Hopefully you caught Allen on a bad day (or bad ankle, as speculated above) because he's likely to snap up Duke's schollie offer before Booker does.

That's what I'm worried about too. As are others after seeing him this weekend.

[tommy]

Each team plays one final game on Sunday morning in this event. It is not nearly as well attended as is Saturday, which is the main event, but still there were a number of high profile coaches and programs there, including K and Wojo. (quick mea culpa is in order: I should not have asked 'where is Jeff Capel?' in yesterday's post. Apparently the rule is a program can only have 3 of its coaches out on the road at a time during the recruiting period; with K and Wojo here, and Nate I think with Kevon Looney at his tournament, that rule would not have permitted Jeff to travel.)

In any event. I missed the 8 AM games. Why? Because I had spent pretty much all day down there yesterday, leaving my wife with the kids, and was going to take half of today too, and she insisted on getting her workout done early AM. Had to cave. Sacrifices sometimes must be made. The good thing was that the two main Duke targets who were playing in the 8 AM games -- Devin Booker and Stanley Johnson -- I had seen play twice yesterday. (Stanley had another strong game, getting 22 and 10 in a losing effort, while Devin was held to 10 in his team's loss.) I would have liked to have seen Boogie Briscoe out of New Jersey, but what can you do? I'm not sure how involved we are with him anyway, and it's gonna be tough for anyone to wrest him away from Boeheim in any event.

So: for the 9:30 games I planted myself in a corner between two courts so I could watch Justise Winslow and his Houston Hoops squad (which includes Carolina commit Justin Jackson) play and at the same time watch Tyus Jones and Howard Pulley square off against CP3, featuring Theo Pinson. Houston Hoops blew out their opponent, but the ease of the team's win did not detract from the impressiveness of Winslow's all-court talent. He's a 6'6" lefty, with a very solid body. I wouldn't describe his shot as the smoothest I've ever seen, or feathery, but it's effective. He gets into the lane, he's highly athletic -- much more so than you'd think by looking at the thick body -- he can handle the ball, he's unselfish. He passes out of the post, he hits cutters, the whole package. He ended up with 11 points and 6 boards today, along with four assists, in just 20 minutes.

And this kid can D up. He guards any position on the floor, and he shuts kids down. Opposing perimeter players look at him and think they're going to be able to race right past him. Doesn't happen. What I really like about Justise too is how hard he plays. He's really going all-out out there, even in a blowout. I just love his hustle. The idea of having a guy like this denying on the perimeter for us, stopping penetration from 2's and 3's, and then having the strength to bang with anybody inside -- all in a hardworking, team-oriented, humble guy? He would be a tremendous addition to the program.

K and Wojo were front and center for this game. It says something when they stay for the whole game, even though it's a 30 point blowout, and even when Tyus Jones is playing on the next court. Justise is clearly a high priority recruit, and he should be. Sean Miller was right there too, as was Pastner who again was dressed in a sloppy t-shirt that still didn't hide his ever-expanding belly, and many others. But this is going to be a tough one between Duke and Arizona. It would be a really, really nice one to win. I'm not going to paste in the absolutely classic Alec Baldwin speech from Glengarry Glen Ross, but to the Duke staff: "you gotta close!!"

Once Justise's game was done, K and Wojo moved over to watch the rest of Tyus' game against CP3. If you read what I wrote yesterday about Tyus, he displayed it all again today, and then some. CP3 was up about 15 points with maybe 5 minutes to go, and Tyus single-handedly brought his team back. He drove the lane and hit teardrops over big guys. He nailed 3's. He drove and dished for easy shots for his teammates. He made steals at the other end, leading to runouts. The whole package. Kid ended up with 38 points -- a tournament high -- on 14 of 22 shooting, 2 of 5 on three pointers, and 8 of 9 from the line. When he decides his team needs him to score, he can score. Make no mistake about it. Howard Pulley got the ball with a few seconds left and a chance to tie, and Tyus took it himself the length of the court and CP3 was waiting for him and took a charge to cinch the game. Too bad, because Jones was brilliant.

Interestingly, I did not see Kentucky watching this game. Calipari wasn't in the gym at all today, and I didn't see Antigua or anyone else either, though I might've missed it if it was somebody else. But Izzo was right up front, as he was all weekend for Tyus. You can just tell he's dying to get him, especially since it may mean he'd get Jahlil too. Pulley has another high major kid on the squad, and CP3 has Theo and others, so it wasn't surprising to see a horde at this game: Shaka, Chris Collins, Richard Pitino, Brian Gregory, Scott Drew (nobody talks to him -- surprised?), an Ohio State assistant, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, and then Sean Miller of Arizona came over after Winslow's game too.

What about Pinson? Just like yesterday, he displayed a pretty smooth offensive game when he was into it, driving and dishing and creating for others, but today he disappeared for long stretches. He kept getting subbed out too. He finished with 16 points and 8 boards, but was only 4 of 11 from the field and had 5 turnovers. But to his credit, he got aggressive late in the game, and got to the line several times to thwart HP's comeback and (almost) ice it. Included in his big plays was a great offensive board on a free throw with 12 seconds on the clock, up 2. But like I said, he was absent for awhile out there today. He had a really up-and-down weekend, and I just don't know where his head is at.

At 11, I went to see Elijah Thomas of Texas Elite again, this time against Southern Stampede featuring Grayson Allen and Jalen Lindsey. Forget if I mentioned Lindsey yesterday, but he's a 6'5" or so wing, class of 2014, that Duke may be getting interested in. I don't know if he's a potential backup to Justise or what, but he's a nice player. He was very efficient today, shooting a perfect 5 of 5 from the field, two of which were three pointers, and 4 of 4 from the line, for 16 points, but when I saw those numbers I was surprised. It didn't seem like he was impacting the game all that much, but he did. He's a pretty good athlete, doesn't blow you away, body will need to get stronger, but he's a kid that can play. He banged home those 3's, and looked confident there. I think he'll be an easy guy to integrate into a team, but I don't think he'd be an immediate impact guy.

I know I was tough on Grayson Allen yesterday. I was hoping he'd play much, much better today and show that yesterday was just a bad day. Maybe his ankle was hurting, maybe . . who knows what? But Allen not only didn't start, not only didn't sit on the bench and just sit this one out, he wasn't there at all. He vanished. I didn't hear any buzz at all as to why. Could it have been his ankle? Could've. Was there some family issue that required him to leave the event? Who knows? This was his first tournament, I believe, with this Southern Stampede team. Did he just not like playing with these guys and just decided to get the heck out of there? Never know. I will say that when I saw him on Saturday, he had a look on his face like someone stole his lunch money. He did not look like he wanted to be in that gym. Who knows if that was basketball-related or not? I don't know. Bottom line: no new information on Allen today.

Elijah Thomas of the Texas Elite impressed again. He had some early foul trouble, but he didn't let it get him down or affect him too much. He is just very active and works extremely hard inside. He doesn't have a mid-range game at all; it's all within a few feet of the basket. Good. He knows where to set up every time down. He did strip a guy on the outside and decide to lead the fast break himself. Although he definitely should've given the ball up rather than try to take it all the way himself (it didn't work out well) at least he showed he can handle the ball some, take 3 high speed dribbles and not fall all over himself. Thomas did struggle again from the charity stripe, though, as he did yesterday. He really gets discouraged, and is demonstrative when he misses FT's. I think he'll grow out of that, either by maturing emotionally or -- even better -- by becoming a better FT shooter. He's a big kid, kind of like a big teddy bear, very strong and some real skills around the basket. Finished with 13 and 7, though just 3 of 8 from the line.

K arrived at this game midway through the first half, so he saw Elijah do a lot of good things. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if we offered this kid right now. He's not Jahlil Okafor, but he is going to be a very good player.

One pleasant surprise coming from this game was Austin Grandstaff on the Texas team, the coach's son. I don't know if we're recruiting him that actively anymore, but if we weren't, today's performance might pique K's interest again. Grandstaff was no factor yesterday, but today he was terrific. He hit three 3's from distance, he drove it with confidence, and he handled the ball with ease. He saw the floor really well, dishing to open shooters as well as a beautiful alley oop to a teammate. He went 4-4 from the line down the stretch of this tight game too. He finished with a game-high 23 points. He's not going to blow anyone away with athleticism, strength, or by being a lockdown defender, but he makes plays on offense, and he can shoot. Looked like a player today.

OK folks, that's it. Hope these have been illuminating in some way, or at least a little bit interesting. Look forward to your feedback.

[Kedsy]

Thanks again, Tommy. Good stuff.

[jimsumner]

In any event. I missed the 8 AM games. Why? Because I had spent pretty much all day down there yesterday, leaving my wife with the kids, and was going to take half of today too, and she insisted on getting her workout done early AM. Had to cave. Sacrifices sometimes must be made. .


Tommy, we have a saying around these parts. "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." Good call.

[Frobisher]

So, I was on a flight back from Pittsburgh with an AAU team from down here (Charlotte/SC), and struck up a convo with some of the guys. I was really impressed with how well spoken, gracious, and affable all of them were. I was even called "sir" throughout despite the fact I still get carded for things you need to be 18 to have or do...Rarely would that designation come to mind upon seeing me; I can't even grow a proper beard. Anyway, I'm posting this here because the Jam Fest in Pittsburgh was apparently the second biggest thing going this weekend, with a number of top 20 recruits, and apparently most of the coaches listed in the first post (who were not in LA) were in attendance. So I came home and tried to find some info on the tourney, the kids, etc.

Nada. Zilch. Just some blurb write-ups and promo articles. Hence, threads like these are invaluable for those of us who'd like to follow some of these kids on the AAU circuit. I actually wished I'd went to the burgh event, after the kids started taking about it. I'm not sure if any Duke recruits were there, but it was still cool to talk to them.

(I also felt bad, and less jealous, when I saw a dozen long, lanky bodies crammed into coach on the plane...)

[gam7]

I love this stuff, especially the observations on the coaches. Hilarious re: Pastner. Great work Tommy.

Any non-college-coach celebrity sightings? I went to the Oakland EYBL last year and Anthony Davis was there watching Mean Streets (his old AAU team) and Antonio Davis (former Pacer) was there watching his son who was playing with the Atlanta AAU team (Tony Parker's and I think Poythress's old AAU team). I also met perhaps the biggest celeb of all: the man known as the devilwolf. Randomly started chatting with his wife (who goes to these things with him) and then met the man himself.

As far as the basketball goes, I did see Stanley Johnson and Justise Winslow last year. I agree with your assessment that both of those guys are just plain winners and the types of guys we would absolutely love as Duke fans (they are 5 star guys, so I'd imagine every fan base probably feels that way). But, I definitely have a different feeling about those two than I have about comparably ranked SFs, like Pinson to name just one. Oakland Soldiers, of course, won the Peach Jam last year (without an injured Aaron Gordon), and no coincidence Stanley played for them. Anyway, thanks again for the insight.

[subzero02]

Was there ever a reason given for Allen's poor play or early departure during the tourney

[jimsumner]

Was there ever a reason given for Allen's poor play or early departure during the tourney

Pending full-moon?

Born under a bad sign?

If he didn't have bad luck, wouldn't have no luck at all?

Been down so long, it looks like up to him?

Nobody loves him but his mama and she could be jiving him to?

What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas?

He's a teenager?

Just theories, mind you.

Seriously, you have to judge him on entire body of work and Duke is quite fond of his entire body of work. And his mama probably loves him.

And yes, I'm bored. That kind of day.

[roywhite]

Was there ever a reason given for Allen's poor play or early departure during the tourney

1. bad ankle

2. had to catch a plane

also -- see some earlier posts in this thread for detail

[licc85]

Well, now that Grayson is committed, I have to admit that tommy's observations from this event are somewhat troubling. I think we all understand it's just 1 event and definitely not representative of an entire body of work, but just the post about his lack of lateral quickness and being subbed out for defense (in an AAU game!) makes me nervous. His commitment probably also means our chances of landing Devin Booker are much slimmer.

Having said that, I just hope these issues are mostly due to his bum ankle, and I hope that ankle gets much better, and that he has a long and successful career at Duke.

[tommy]

Well, now that Grayson is committed, I have to admit that tommy's observations from this event are somewhat troubling. I think we all understand it's just 1 event and definitely not representative of an entire body of work, but just the post about his lack of lateral quickness and being subbed out for defense (in an AAU game!) makes me nervous. His commitment probably also means our chances of landing Devin Booker are much slimmer.

Having said that, I just hope these issues are mostly due to his bum ankle, and I hope that ankle gets much better, and that he has a long and successful career at Duke.

I certainly hope so too. I hope there was either the ankle or something else going on for him last weekend to explain that performance. Coach K isn't very wrong very often. It does happen, but not too much. If Allen is the player he showed last weekend, he will not see the floor much at Duke, and the quick trigger offer to Allen and probable sacrifice of a chance at getting Booker will go down as a mistake, maybe a big mistake. If last weekend was an aberration, then anything is possible in terms of upside for Allen. I sure hope it's the latter.

As I've thought about it more, a guy that Allen kind of reminds me of is Marty Pocius. Marty was a guy who had a springy body, could jump, and had a reputation as a shooter. He was athletic enough to drive the ball to the basket. What he didn't have was any consistency on his shot, and he struggled to fit his game into Duke's offensive scheme. And he didn't defend very well. Although he was athletic, it didn't translate into effective movement defensively, whether it be from not comprehending the Duke defensive system, lack of technique, or a lack of lateral quickness. In any event, Marty seemed to have a lot more potential to be effective, particularly on the offensive end, than he ever actually demonstrated.

Allen's shot was way off this weekend, but again that could've been due to a bad ankle or, you know, just having an off weekend. Happens. It wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to be a much better shooter than was Marty Pocius. I hope he is able to get his shot off and hit shots against high major competition and the physical defenders that he's going to face most nights. Even if he can, he's going to have to work on being a much better defender than was Marty in order to play at Duke.

[Greg_Newton]

Re: tommy - The flip side of that is that for his "slot", we don't need someone who can step in and play right away - really, it would probably be an issue landing a combo guard who expects to play right away, assuming we're still hoping to get Tyus and play him next to Cook, ahead of Jones and possibly Sulaimon and/or a wing like Winslow who could slide down to the 2 if Hood or Jabari stay or Ojeleye or Murphy make strides.

Especially after the fiasco that was 2012 recruiting, it's refreshing to me in a lot of ways to quietly bring in a great, humble kid who is thrilled and honored just to be a part of the program. Hopefully he's be a productive 4-year player for us, but if he's not, it's not much of a loss either way as long as he keeps up a good attitude and contributes in practice.

That said, I am holding out hope that his poor showing last weekend was a result of injury. Hadn't heard a bad thing about him up until then.

[budwom]

Not sure how many times it has to be stated, but Allen WAS playing on a bum ankle and he's having a knee MRI this week as well.

Check around the internet and you can find some videos which show his extremely impressive athleticism...

[subzero02]

I am trying to be optimistic I will wait and see...

[SDBlueDevil21]

Not sure how many times it has to be stated, but Allen WAS playing on a bum ankle and he's having a knee MRI this week as well.

Check around the internet and you can find some videos which show his extremely impressive athleticism...

This kid looks like a good fit for Duke. Dave Telep and Reggie Rankin think his game will translate well to duke with his ability to knock down 3's and finish in transition. If it takes him time to adjust to the college game, that is just fine. We have possibly Sheed and Matt Jones in front of him who will have a full season under his belt.

[ChillinDuke]

I certainly hope so too. I hope there was either the ankle or something else going on for him last weekend to explain that performance. Coach K isn't very wrong very often. It does happen, but not too much. If Allen is the player he showed last weekend, he will not see the floor much at Duke, and the quick trigger offer to Allen and probable sacrifice of a chance at getting Booker will go down as a mistake, maybe a big mistake. If last weekend was an aberration, then anything is possible in terms of upside for Allen. I sure hope it's the latter.

As I've thought about it more, a guy that Allen kind of reminds me of is Marty Pocius. Marty was a guy who had a springy body, could jump, and had a reputation as a shooter. He was athletic enough to drive the ball to the basket. What he didn't have was any consistency on his shot, and he struggled to fit his game into Duke's offensive scheme. And he didn't defend very well. Although he was athletic, it didn't translate into effective movement defensively, whether it be from not comprehending the Duke defensive system, lack of technique, or a lack of lateral quickness. In any event, Marty seemed to have a lot more potential to be effective, particularly on the offensive end, than he ever actually demonstrated.

Allen's shot was way off this weekend, but again that could've been due to a bad ankle or, you know, just having an off weekend. Happens. It wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to be a much better shooter than was Marty Pocius. I hope he is able to get his shot off and hit shots against high major competition and the physical defenders that he's going to face most nights. Even if he can, he's going to have to work on being a much better defender than was Marty in order to play at Duke.

Interesting comparison. I always loved Marty, he just never quite panned out.

I do wonder if we are over-analyzing here a bit. Taking nothing away from Tommy's excellent rundown from last weekend, it was only one weekend.

And for comparison's sake, RSCI listed Marty at #53. Grayson clocks in at #36 (ESPN), #39 (Scout), and #32 (Rivals). But full disclosure, this ranking comparison is blurred because Marty was first ranked in the RSCI right before the final ranking, so I imagine there wasn't a steady stream of ranking info on him previously. And Grayson is unranked (not in the top 100) on MaxPreps. I have no idea if this is a function of him being a relative newcomer or if that is reflective of their view on his skill level.

Interesting nonetheless. And happy we have Grayson in the fold!

- Chillin

[BD80]

... a guy that Allen kind of reminds me of is Marty Pocius. Marty was a guy who had a springy body, could jump, and had a reputation as a shooter. He was athletic enough to drive the ball to the basket. What he didn't have was any consistency on his shot, and he struggled to fit his game into Duke's offensive scheme. And he didn't defend very well. Although he was athletic, it didn't translate into effective movement defensively, whether it be from not comprehending the Duke defensive system, lack of technique, or a lack of lateral quickness. In any event, Marty seemed to have a lot more potential to be effective, particularly on the offensive end, than he ever actually demonstrated. ...

Marty suffered a series of injuries at Duke that may have had some impact on his ability to fit into the team. He is a successful player in Europe and played significant minutes for Lithuania's Olympic team. I wouldn't consider Marty a recruiting mistake as much as one of those situations that didn't work out as well as it could have.

Hopefully, Grayson is getting his Duke injury out of the way early, so he can have a productive Duke career

[tommy]

Not sure how many times it has to be stated, but Allen WAS playing on a bum ankle and he's having a knee MRI this week as well.

Check around the internet and you can find some videos which show his extremely impressive athleticism...

Per Clint Jackson, Allen told him that his ankle was fine but that his knee was really bothering him last weekend. Patella tendon. Will only play limited minutes this weekend. Regardless, if the kid was hurting, that would (hopefully) tend to explain his performance in LA, and I hope that my evaluation of him, which of course was written without my knowledge of his injury, turns out to be wrong as a result.

[Ichabod Drain]

Per Clint Jackson, Allen told him that his ankle was fine but that his knee was really bothering him last weekend. Patella tendon. Will only play limited minutes this weekend. Regardless, if the kid was hurting, that would (hopefully) tend to explain his performance in LA, and I hope that my evaluation of him, which of course was written without my knowledge of his injury, turns out to be wrong as a result.

Eh, even if he was in good health, kids have bad games. I don't think it's a fluke that he's rated a top 10 SG and top 40 overall by all the major talent evaluators.

[CajunDevil]

This is rather impressive...


http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/2123392960001/1/Grayson-Allen-wins-Slam-Dunk-Contest

Also, not to sound too stalkerish, but his shoe size is 16... pretty big for a 6'3"-ish guy, right? Perhaps, he's not done growing.

[superdave]

This is rather impressive...


http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/2123392960001/1/Grayson-Allen-wins-Slam-Dunk-Contest

Also, not to sound too stalkerish, but his shoe size is 16... pretty big for a 6'3"-ish guy, right? Perhaps, he's not done growing.

The feet are the first things to grow. I had a size 13 in the 7th grade, then size 14 in the 8th. I grew about 6 inches summer between 8th and 9th grades. Then grew again significantly summer between 9th and 10th grades. Finally, I added an inch and a half my senior year of high school.

So my guess is Allen has maybe another inch or two to go.

[tommy]

Eh, even if he was in good health, kids have bad games. I don't think it's a fluke that he's rated a top 10 SG and top 40 overall by all the major talent evaluators.

Of course kids have bad games. But don't be fooled by the "major talent evaluators" either. They're far from infallible. Afterall, the following players were also consensus Top 40 players in their classes: Tony Parker, Michael Gbinije, Josh Hairston, Taylor King, Eric Boateng. And those are just kids that Duke recruited, successfully or unsuccessfully. Take a look at the lists from over the years. There are a ton of top 40 kids that made no mark whatsoever.

[Henderson]

Patella tendon.

It's good to hear that this is what ails GA's knee. Rest will cure a sore patella tendon. Cyclists, runners, backpackers, b-ball players... They've all been there after just A Little Too Much. But a little rest and some Vitamin I, and all is good again. Nothing to worry about in a kid his age. His surrounding muscles will get stronger.

[Duvall]

Of course kids have bad games. But don't be fooled by the "major talent evaluators" either. They're far from infallible. Afterall, the following players were also consensus Top 40 players in their classes: Tony Parker, Michael Gbinije, Josh Hairston, Taylor King, Eric Boateng. And those are just kids that Duke recruited, successfully or unsuccessfully. Take a look at the lists from over the years. There are a ton of top 40 kids that made no mark whatsoever.

Projecting the development of teenagers is an inexact science at best. But the main advantage of the "major talent evaluators" is that they get to make their judgments about players with more information than one afternoon of games.

[UrinalCake]

Marty suffered a series of injuries at Duke that may have had some impact on his ability to fit into the team. He is a successful player in Europe and played significant minutes for Lithuania's Olympic team. I wouldn't consider Marty a recruiting mistake as much as one of those situations that didn't work out as well as it could have.

Also unfortunate that he chose not to stick around for his fifth year, as he could have played a significant role on that 2010 team that had a dearth of guards. Though from duke's perspective, if he had stayed maybe Dawkins doesn't come early. And things worked out pretty well for us 8-)

[dukelifer]

Also unfortunate that he chose not to stick around for his fifth year, as he could have played a significant role on that 2010 team that had a dearth of guards. Though from duke's perspective, if he had stayed maybe Dawkins doesn't come early. And things worked out pretty well for us 8-)

2010 worked out quite well indeed.

[dukelifer]

The feet are the first things to grow. I had a size 13 in the 7th grade, then size 14 in the 8th. I grew about 6 inches summer between 8th and 9th grades. Then grew again significantly summer between 9th and 10th grades. Finally, I added an inch and a half my senior year of high school.

So my guess is Allen has maybe another inch or two to go.

Or an 8th of a cinder block

[Double DD]

The feet are the first things to grow. I had a size 13 in the 7th grade, then size 14 in the 8th. I grew about 6 inches summer between 8th and 9th grades. Then grew again significantly summer between 9th and 10th grades. Finally, I added an inch and a half my senior year of high school.

So my guess is Allen has maybe another inch or two to go.

I'm still waiting for Nolan Smith to have that growth spurt everyone predicted because of his size 18 feet.

[Ichabod Drain]

Of course kids have bad games. But don't be fooled by the "major talent evaluators" either. They're far from infallible. Afterall, the following players were also consensus Top 40 players in their classes: Tony Parker, Michael Gbinije, Josh Hairston, Taylor King, Eric Boateng. And those are just kids that Duke recruited, successfully or unsuccessfully. Take a look at the lists from over the years. There are a ton of top 40 kids that made no mark whatsoever.

Of course there are kid's in the top 40 that leave no mark but that doesn't mean they were'nt one of the top 40 high school seniors at the time. Major talent evaluators aren't always right but they genereally build an opinion of a kid based on several events and many games. They watch the players as they develope over their high school careers. Not just one game.

[MCFinARL]

Of course there are kid's in the top 40 that leave no mark but that doesn't mean they were'nt one of the top 40 high school seniors at the time. Major talent evaluators aren't always right but they genereally build an opinion of a kid based on several events and many games. They watch the players as they develope over their high school careers. Not just one game.

Yes. There are different rates of development, different issues with injury--a lot of stuff can happen. Also, just the way some players who are very effective at the college level are undersized, or not fast/quick enough, to play the same position at the pro level, some high school players have skills that don't translate well to the next level, either because they have already maximized their abilities or because they are undersized to play their position as effectively at the next level.

[tommy]

Of course there are kid's in the top 40 that leave no mark but that doesn't mean they were'nt one of the top 40 high school seniors at the time.

I don't think those lists are created for the limited purpose of stating who the top high school performers have been, in a backwards-looking fashion. I think they're created primarily as evaluations of their likelihood of success in college. I think the interest in such a list would be much less if it was just "who are the best players in high school?" Of much more interest is "who's gonna be good going forward?" and that's what those lists are for. There may not actually be all that much separation in those two concepts, practically speaking, but if there had to be one purpose which is primary, I think it's the forward-looking, not the backwards-looking.



Major talent evaluators aren't always right but they genereally build an opinion of a kid based on several events and many games. They watch the players as they develope over their high school careers. Not just one game.

Right, and I think you're helping make my point. The fact that these major talent evaluators do see these guys play as often as they do, and still are wrong as often as they are, is more of an indictment of them than it would be had they only seen the kids play once or twice.

[Ichabod Drain]

I don't think those lists are created for the limited purpose of stating who the top high school performers have been, in a backwards-looking fashion. I think they're created primarily as evaluations of their likelihood of success in college. I think the interest in such a list would be much less if it was just "who are the best players in high school?" Of much more interest is "who's gonna be good going forward?" and that's what those lists are for. There may not actually be all that much separation in those two concepts, practically speaking, but if there had to be one purpose which is primary, I think it's the forward-looking, not the backwards-looking.




Right, and I think you're helping make my point. The fact that these major talent evaluators do see these guys play as often as they do, and still are wrong as often as they are, is more of an indictment of them than it would be had they only seen the kids play once or twice.

Your first point is helping prove my point. As that would indicate they believe Allen will be one of the 40 best freshman once he starts college.

To your second point, for it being a very inexact science the scouts are right the majority of the time. Rate of error obviously increases the farther down the ranking you go. But for the thousands of high school basketball players spread out all over the country with turnover every year, they seem to do a pretty good job.