2013 NBA Pre-Draft

[superdave]

June 27, 2013. 7pm on ESPN.

Odds of winning the lottery and getting the #1 pick
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/draft/2013/04/18/nba-draft-lottery-odds-2013-orlando-magic/2092651/
Orlando 25%
Charlotte 19.9%
Cleveland 15.6%

Espn's Draft homepage
http://espn.go.com/nba/draft

Chad Ford chat from 4/17
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/47709

Sounds like Mason does not have a shot at the lottery, as he is behind Zeller, McGary, Len etc in the big man rankings. He will have a chance to compete against them in workouts though, so anything is possible. It also sounds like Noel is all but a lock for #1 with Smart going back to OSU.

[Phoenix22]

All of the mock drafts I have seen have Mason between 12-14, which is in the lottery.

[Ichabod Drain]

I think Mason will impress a lot at the combine, like Miles did last year. Whether that will get him in the lottery... we'll just have to wait and see. Depends on what kind of player those last few teams in the lottery need as well.

[gocanes0506]

I think Noel is a bad pick unless your a team with a legit center like the Lakers, Grizzlies, etc. Yes his D presence is top notch. His scoring is okay at best and he is a light weight. He didnt seem to have the feet to guard the athletic 4 man in the bigs. He doesnt have the weight to handle the 5 spot. He will be a good player, I just dont think its number 1 worthy. Im would pick McLemore. Bennett, or Burke.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think Noel is a bad pick unless your a team with a legit center like the Lakers, Grizzlies, etc. Yes his D presence is top notch. His scoring is okay at best and he is a light weight. He didnt seem to have the feet to guard the athletic 4 man in the bigs. He doesnt have the weight to handle the 5 spot. He will be a good player, I just dont think its number 1 worthy. Im would pick McLemore. Bennett, or Burke.

Depends on the team. If the Cavs win the lottery, you gotta go for Noel. He is exactly the type of player they need: all defense, can work on offense. The Cavs are terrible, and I mean god awful, at defense. An anchor like Noel would be great for them. If the Cavs miss on Noel, then Porter is a great 3 with 20x the potential of Gee (the current 3).

Kyrie needs major help with D, and an offensive-minded 1 and 2 aren't ideal for this team. I hope the Cavs win the lottery and grab Noel, who has the most potential of anyone in the lottery.

[CDu]

All of the mock drafts I have seen have Mason between 12-14, which is in the lottery.

To be fair, Chad Ford (who is referenced by superdave) has Mason as the #18 prospect on his big board. Now, that doesn't mean he projects Mason to go #18 (I don't think he's done a mock draft yet), but based on that it sounds like doesn't think Mason should go in the lottery.

Of course, among the 17 names ahead of Mason are guys like Smart (who is returning), McGary (who has said so far that he's returning), and Harris, Robinson III, and Olynyk (who haven't said anything yet). So it is very possible that Mason will sneak back into Ford's lottery section, too.

[superdave]

All of the mock drafts I have seen have Mason between 12-14, which is in the lottery.

NBADraft.net (http://www.nbadraft.net/2013mock_draft) has Mason going #15 to Milwaukee ahead of Dieng, Withey, McGary, and behind Olynyk.

IBT (http://www.ibtimes.com/nba-mock-draft-2013-where-will-nerlens-noel-shabazz-muhammad-trey-burke-cody-zeller-end-lottery#) does not project beyond 14 and does not include Mason.

Draft Express (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/) has Mason going #12.

Jeff Goodman (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft) has him #16. Behind Ike Austin who is not in the draft I dont think.

Chad Ford's mock draft lottery (http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2013/mockdraft) is the gold standard in my mind, and does not include Mason in the top 14. But his other article has hime going #14. Guess it's fluid.


McGary is heading back to school, so that should help Mason some.

[superdave]

To be fair, Chad Ford (who is referenced by superdave) has Mason as the #18 prospect on his big board. Now, that doesn't mean he projects Mason to go #18 (I don't think he's done a mock draft yet), but based on that it sounds like doesn't think Mason should go in the lottery.

Of course, among the 17 names ahead of Mason are guys like Smart (who is returning), McGary (who has said so far that he's returning), and Harris, Robinson III, and Olynyk (who haven't said anything yet). So it is very possible that Mason will sneak back into Ford's lottery section, too.

Ford seems to update things based on new information. His first mock draft where he does the whole first round came out last week and was updated with Marcus Smart's decision. Now with a few more decisions coming in, I'd expect version 1.1 to come out shortly.

Maybe version 2.0 will come out when head to head workouts commence.

[InSpades]

I think Mason has a few things going for him that might get him picked a little higher than expected (and in the lottery):
1. Athleticism. He's more athletic than the people going around him.
2. Big improvement last year. I think teams might look at the jump he made from Junior to Senior year and think there's a lot more potential there (especially on the defensive end, where he is going to need to work his butt off).
3. Maybe, just maybe, NBA GMs are realizing that Duke has produced some really solid talent of late.

Either way I think things will work out for him. He's a lock for the 1st round and from there we know he will work his butt off to get another contract.

[jv001]

NBADraft.net (http://www.nbadraft.net/2013mock_draft) has Mason going #15 to Milwaukee ahead of Dieng, Withey, McGary, and behind Olynyk.

IBT (http://www.ibtimes.com/nba-mock-draft-2013-where-will-nerlens-noel-shabazz-muhammad-trey-burke-cody-zeller-end-lottery#) does not project beyond 14 and does not include Mason.

Draft Express (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/) has Mason going #12.

Jeff Goodman (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft) has him #16. Behind Ike Austin who is not in the draft I dont think.

Chad Ford's mock draft lottery (http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2013/mockdraft) is the gold standard in my mind, and does not include Mason in the top 14. But his other article has hime going #14. Guess it's fluid.


McGary is heading back to school, so that should help Mason some.

I saw on ESPN that McGary and Robinson are both coming back to Michigan. Should help Mason move up. GoDuke!

[BD80]

I saw on ESPN that McGary and Robinson are both coming back to Michigan. Should help Mason move up. GoDuke!

http://www.umhoops.com/2013/04/18/report-glenn-robinson-iii-mitch-mcgary-will-return-to-michigan/

Glenn Robinson III and Mitch McGary are headed back to Ann Arbor for their sophomore seasons. The duo have a press conference scheduled for 4:30 p.m. this afternoon.

McGary tweeted at 2:38 p.m. in response to the reports, “This is my decision, until I say it, nothing’s true!”

[jv001]

http://www.umhoops.com/2013/04/18/report-glenn-robinson-iii-mitch-mcgary-will-return-to-michigan/

Glenn Robinson III and Mitch McGary are headed back to Ann Arbor for their sophomore seasons. The duo have a press conference scheduled for 4:30 p.m. this afternoon.

McGary tweeted at 2:38 p.m. in response to the reports, “This is my decision, until I say it, nothing’s true!”

Thanks for the link. I'm glad McGary will not have Burke getting him the ball next year. Going to be interesting to see how effective he his without Burke.
GoDuke!

[Class of '94]

Thanks for the link. I'm glad McGary will not have Burke getting him the ball next year. Going to be interesting to see how effective he his without Burke.
GoDuke!

I know I'm biased towards Duke; and so I'd really appreciate someone with more objectivity explaining to me how McGary (who is almost 21 btw) could be considered a better NBA prospect than Mason. I know Mason has his flaws (but their workable) and McGary had an unbelievable tournamet run (until the final game); but their respective season numbers aren't even comparable. Mason's stats against comparable (if not better) competition is much better than McGary's. And when you compare the two side by side, Mason is a better athlete, has better post moves (i..e, the 10-12 ft skyhook that Mason was showing off in the tournament and has used successfully in the regular season); is a better rebounder and low post threat; and runs the floor at least as well as McGary. McGary, like Zeller, has a better jump shot from midrange.

With all of this said, It's hard for me to consider Zeller being a better overall prospect, let alone McGary, than Mason as a NBA player. I really do think Mason will suprise people once he starts playing in the NBA, similar ot Carlos B. I hope some team in the lottery area chooses Mason.

[jv001]

I know I'm biased towards Duke; and so I'd really appreciate someone with more objectivity explaining to me how McGary (who is almost 21 btw) could be considered a better NBA prospect than Mason. I know Mason has his flaws (but their workable) and McGary had an unbelievable tournamet run (until the final game); but their respective season numbers aren't even comparable. Mason's stats against comparable (if not better) competition is much better than McGary's. And when you compare the two side by side, Mason is a better athlete, has better post moves (i..e, the 10-12 ft skyhook that Mason was showing off in the tournament and has used successfully in the regular season); is a better rebounder and low post threat; and runs the floor at least as well as McGary. McGary, like Zeller, has a better jump shot from midrange.

With all of this said, It's hard for me to consider Zeller being a better overall prospect, let alone McGary, than Mason as a NBA player. I really do think Mason will suprise people once he starts playing in the NBA, similar ot Carlos B. I hope some team in the lottery area chooses Mason.

I agree with you that Mason is the better player of the two. As far as comparing Mason to Boozer, Mason uses his left hand well. However, Carlos used his left hand as good as any big man I've seen. Mason is probably the better athlete, but Carlos was/is a much better shooter from midrange. So in my estimation, Mason is better than McGary and Boozer is better than Mason(at this time). GoDuke!

[brevity]

I know I'm biased towards Duke; and so I'd really appreciate someone with more objectivity explaining to me how McGary (who is almost 21 btw) could be considered a better NBA prospect than Mason.

I don't know if I'm being objective by saying this, but NBA executives don't pay that much attention to the college basketball regular season. They wait until March Madness, and pay people to scout prospects until then. This leads to asymmetric information, and scouts don't make decisions in the draft room.

It's analogous to the CBS analyst table. You can tell that Greg Anthony follows college basketball all season, while Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley don't. But they all have seats at the table. (Doug Gottlieb does not exist in this situation.) Were they to compare Mason Plumlee and Mitch McGary, you'd hear two guys talking up McGary based on what they have seen in the past few weeks, and one guy who talks up Mason's prolonged excellence but acknowledges McGary's leap forward. In that conversation, McGary wins easily.

[superdave]

I know I'm biased towards Duke; and so I'd really appreciate someone with more objectivity explaining to me how McGary (who is almost 21 btw) could be considered a better NBA prospect than Mason. I know Mason has his flaws (but their workable) and McGary had an unbelievable tournamet run (until the final game); but their respective season numbers aren't even comparable. Mason's stats against comparable (if not better) competition is much better than McGary's. And when you compare the two side by side, Mason is a better athlete, has better post moves (i..e, the 10-12 ft skyhook that Mason was showing off in the tournament and has used successfully in the regular season); is a better rebounder and low post threat; and runs the floor at least as well as McGary. McGary, like Zeller, has a better jump shot from midrange.

With all of this said, It's hard for me to consider Zeller being a better overall prospect, let alone McGary, than Mason as a NBA player. I really do think Mason will suprise people once he starts playing in the NBA, similar ot Carlos B. I hope some team in the lottery area chooses Mason.

McGary had a great run the last 10-12 games of the season. Before that, not so much.

I think his best pro comp is David Lee or maybe Kevin Love, which is clearly high praise. McGary is an aggressive rebounder, great passer and is generally pretty skilled. I would not say he's great post scorer but looks like he could develop into a consistent spot up shooter like Love. Most importantly the guy is a basketball player first, not just an athlete. He would not be drafted for athleticism but for being a multi-tool polished big man.

[Dev11]

(Doug Gottlieb does not exist in this situation.)

Tell me more about this place. I have searched, yet I cannot find it.

[rocketeli]

apropos of picking players from Duke and other "big name" schools
per ESPN website these are the schools/players now on NBA rosters
KY 20
Duke 19
UNC 16
Ucon 13
KS 13
UCLA 11
FLA 10 Texas 10
These 8 teams account for over a quarter of NBA players. Does going to one of these schools, such as Duke, move a player up at all at this point (I think it might for KY at least) That is get them more consideration than they would get on talent alone?

[Class of '94]

McGary had a great run the last 10-12 games of the season. Before that, not so much.

I think his best pro comp is David Lee or maybe Kevin Love, which is clearly high praise. McGary is an aggressive rebounder, great passer and is generally pretty skilled. I would not say he's great post scorer but looks like he could develop into a consistent spot up shooter like Love. Most importantly the guy is a basketball player first, not just an athlete. He would not be drafted for athleticism but for being a multi-tool polished big man.

I hear you superdave....It's just that living in SE MIchigan, I've seen a lot of McGary; and I'm just now prepared now to say that he compares favorable to either David Lee or Kevin Love. I don't think at this point he's as skilled or athletic as David Lee; and he's doesn't have the range that Love has. I agree with you in that McGary is a basketball player that has good instincts; but I don't think he's consistently shown that he's a great passer our outside shooter. I think he has the potential to be if he continues to work at it.

I know the NBA drafts on potential now; but I just don't see at this point how McGary is a better prospect than Mason. Arguably, outside of Noels and Zeller (2 players who Mason compares favorable to in terms of stats) and maybe the kid from Gonzaga, I just don't see imo any other player that is better big man prospect than Mason.

[capitolhill]

Arguably, outside of Noels and Zeller (2 players who Mason compares favorable to in terms of stats) and maybe the kid from Gonzaga, I just don't see imo any other player that is better big man prospect than Mason.

I love Mason's game, but I submit that Alex Len is easily a better big man prospect. They each had good games against each other this year, with the ACC tourney game basically a wash. That being said, Len is only 19 years old, while Mason is 23. Mason's game will certainly evolve, but his ceiling isn't nearly as high as Len's.

Another point - Len's best performances were typically against other quality big men (e.g., Mason, Noel) on teams that didn't double or triple team. His game will translate well to the next level. He's got a pretty decent shot for a 7'1" guy, and will be a great pick and pop player with some development.

[slower]

And when you compare the two side by side, Mason is a better athlete, has better post moves (i..e, the 10-12 ft skyhook that Mason was showing off in the tournament and has used successfully in the regular season); is a better rebounder and low post threat; and runs the floor at least as well as McGary. McGary, like Zeller, has a better jump shot from midrange.


I'd agree that Mason is a better athlete and runs the floor better than McGary. Not sure I'd agree that he's a "better" rebounder or is a better low-post threat.

[jmck214]

Being a Celtics fan I would love to see Mason go to Boston and he is slotted to go right around their pick. It would be interesting to hear what Doc Rivers thinks of him since he got to see a lot of him last year. With the way he runs the floor I think he would play really well with Rondo

[Class of '94]

I love Mason's game, but I submit that Alex Len is easily a better big man prospect. They each had good games against each other this year, with the ACC tourney game basically a wash. That being said, Len is only 19 years old, while Mason is 23. Mason's game will certainly evolve, but his ceiling isn't nearly as high as Len's.

Another point - Len's best performances were typically against other quality big men (e.g., Mason, Noel) on teams that didn't double or triple team. His game will translate well to the next level. He's got a pretty decent shot for a 7'1" guy, and will be a great pick and pop player with some development.

I hear what you're saying about Len and can see his potential. My concerns about him thought is that he wasn't consistent imo in his 2 years of playing at MD. He'd have a good game against Mason this year like you mentioned and then go scoreless or fail to reach double digit games in multiple consecutive games; and he wasn't even being double teamed. Also, I would argue that Mason owned him last year and out of 4 head to head battles against Mason, he only one won matchup; and that was a game where Mason clearly had nothing in the tank.

The good news is that Len is only 19; but again if a team drafts him high, they better be patient with him and be prepared to really work on his "fight" and toughness.

[Class of '94]

I'd agree that Mason is a better athlete and runs the floor better than McGary. Not sure I'd agree that he's a "better" rebounder or is a better low-post threat.

I'm looking at over the entire season and even in tournament. I think Mason has consistently been a good rebounder and I would personally take him over on McGary based on who Mason has played against this season. And being in the Detroit area, I've been a lot of McGary; and one of the biggest criticisms of him by people around here is that he doesn't have a low post game. He's a decent offensive rebounder that can put shots in the basket after grabbing missed shots; but I haven't seen him be effective backing people down and using low post moves to consistently score (and that includes the tournament).

That said, I respect your opinion and thoughts about this. I'm just curious as to what you've seen of McGary that leads you to think that Mason might not be a better rebounder and low post threat than McGary is now?

[ice-9]

I think people are underestimating Mason's pro prospects. He is the kind of player that can elevate a playoff team to a contender, though perhaps not from a bad one to a great one.

His speed and athleticism will fit the NBA to a T. There are a lot of good passing guards that will feed him easy buckets. He himself is a fantastic passer -- he doesn't need to score all the time when he has shooters and cutters all around him. Yet he has enough to go one-on-one every now and then. He is a good enough rebounder...very good perhaps on the defensive side. Mason is a low usage, high efficiency player that would instantly improve any team. I think his skills will translate better in the NBA context than in college, and he was pretty darn good in college.

I hope Mason goes as high as he can in the draft, but should he fall to a team like say...Chicago or Hawks, he can make some noise as the first big off the bench. He can be like what the Birdman was to the Heat for those types of teams. The Heat lost something ridiculous like just three games since Anderson joined the team in January!

[matt1]

Does anyone think that either Seth or Ryan will be drafted in the second round? If not, will either sign somewhere as a free agent?

[Bluedog]

Does anyone think that either Seth or Ryan will be drafted in the second round?

I hope not. As Coach K says, it's better to not be drafted than go second round because then you can gauge interest and choose the team you want to try out for since second round doesn't guarantee a contact anyways. Having said that, I suspect Kelly will be drafted and Curry not to be, but you neve know. I'd be fairly surprised if Ryan is not on an NBA roster next season. A three point shooting 6'10“ guy is not very common. Curry has a more uphill battle as an undersized shooting guard.

[slower]

I'm looking at over the entire season and even in tournament. I think Mason has consistently been a good rebounder and I would personally take him over on McGary based on who Mason has played against this season. And being in the Detroit area, I've been a lot of McGary; and one of the biggest criticisms of him by people around here is that he doesn't have a low post game. He's a decent offensive rebounder that can put shots in the basket after grabbing missed shots; but I haven't seen him be effective backing people down and using low post moves to consistently score (and that includes the tournament).

That said, I respect your opinion and thoughts about this. I'm just curious as to what you've seen of McGary that leads you to think that Mason might not be a better rebounder and low post threat than McGary is now?

At the risk of offending/infuriating many on here, I'll share my OPINION (which is all it is). McGary is a "high-motor" guy and seems to have a "warrior" mentality. In my OPINION, neither of these qualities describes Mason. And I can see how some would say the difference is merely stylistic. Mason spent more time establishing position and calling for the ball, whereas McGary got more garbage-time baskets.

I mean, we'll see. Mason is definitely going to have to learn to take it to the hole STRONG in the NBA, because he doesn't yet have anything else besides a jump hook to rely on. I'm hopeful that he develops more as an offensive threat, and maybe the "less-physical" (in the eyes of many) nature of the NBA will be to his advantage and he will blossom.

[Billy Dat]

As we wait for the Wiggins announcement, Chad Ford is watching Mason work out in Chicago and tweeting about it:


Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
I'm in Chicago watching Mason Plumlee, Tim Hardaway Jr., Isaiah Canaan, Jackie Carmichael, James Southerland workout

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
Hardaway and Plumlee both look fantastic here. Things Plumlee does athletically that no other big in the draft can do

[UrinalCake]

Wonder what everyone thinks of Juan Dixon as a comp for Curry. Both were undersized shooting/combo guards. Dixon was closer to being a point and so was able to transition to one in the pros. Better distributor and better handle than Seth, but not as good a shooter. Both were absolute warriors who loved to hit big shots.

[sporthenry]

Wonder what everyone thinks of Juan Dixon as a comp for Curry. Both were undersized shooting/combo guards. Dixon was closer to being a point and so was able to transition to one in the pros. Better distributor and better handle than Seth, but not as good a shooter. Both were absolute warriors who loved to hit big shots.

I don't really see it. One of the sites currently compares him to Chris Lofton. Both are 6'2 and great shooters but Lofton had a better handle. Lofton seemed to preemptively go overseas but it seemed he would be a long shot to stick in the NBA so he went overseas and has had a pretty solid career.

Other comparisons are guys like an Eddie House or Gary Neal type. House was obviously a solid PG while Neal is more of a SG but he is also 6'4. The good thing for Curry is that he could theoretically play either spots but he'll have to prove that he can either handle the PG minutes in spurts or that he can guard SG's. I think defense will be the biggest thing holding him back either at the PG or SG spot. But he could seemingly be a guy who can play both guard spots intermittently as long as he works hard on defense and his shot doesn't fail him.

[sporthenry]

As we wait for the Wiggins announcement, Chad Ford is watching Mason work out in Chicago and tweeting about it:


Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
I'm in Chicago watching Mason Plumlee, Tim Hardaway Jr., Isaiah Canaan, Jackie Carmichael, James Southerland workout

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
Hardaway and Plumlee both look fantastic here. Things Plumlee does athletically that no other big in the draft can do

Makes sense. His athleticism along with solid skills must excite scouts. He is almost better suited for the NBA assuming he works on defense. In the open court and even with the lack of help defense, he should get some alley oop chances. He has developed a few good moves and he won't be a volume guy so if he just has 1-2 go to moves, he should be fine. As long as he has a motor and uses his athleticism on the defensive end, he should find a rotation. When you look at big men like JaVale McGee or even Chandler, offensive skills aren't exactly the most important assuming he rebounds and protects the rim.

[Troublemaker]

I'm not too excited about Mason's pro prospects (but this is a great draft for him to be in to be picked higher than his talent warrants). He has a narrow frame and may not be able to get much heavier, having played at 240, 235, and 235 lbs for his soph thru senior seasons; he's going to get pushed around by the bigs in the league. He would have a better chance at PF but that doesn't really fit his skillset, especially in an NBA that's going the way of stretch 4s right now. He's not a very good defender either, so what is his "role player skill" that's going to place him in an NBA rotation? I think his rebounding will translate, and he can run the floor, but is that good enough?

[CDu]

Wonder what everyone thinks of Juan Dixon as a comp for Curry. Both were undersized shooting/combo guards. Dixon was closer to being a point and so was able to transition to one in the pros. Better distributor and better handle than Seth, but not as good a shooter. Both were absolute warriors who loved to hit big shots.

I really don't see the Dixon comp. Dixon was more athletic than Curry. Curry is certainly a better shooter, but I'd take Dixon over Curry in just about every other context. Better ballhandler, better passer, better defender, better rebounder.

[CDu]

I'm not too excited about Mason's pro prospects (but this is a great draft for him to be in to be picked higher than his talent warrants). He has a narrow frame and may not be able to get much heavier, having played at 240, 235, and 235 lbs for his soph thru senior seasons; he's going to get pushed around by the bigs in the league. He would have a better chance at PF but that doesn't really fit his skillset, especially in an NBA that's going the way of stretch 4s right now. He's not a very good defender either, so what is his "role player skill" that's going to place him in an NBA rotation?

I don't think Mason needs to get much bigger. Just looking at the bigs among the final 8 teams right now, I see the following:
Bulls: Noah (6'11", 232); Gibson (6'9", 225); Boozer (6'9", 266); Mohammed (6'10", 250)
Heat: Bosh (6'11", 235); Battier (6'8", 225); Andersen (6'10", 228); Haslem (6'8", 235)
Knicks: Stoudemire (6'11", 245); Chandler (7'1", 240); Anthony (6'8", 230); Martin (6'9", 240)
Pacers: Hansbrough (6'9", 250); Hibbert (7'2", 280); Mahinmi (6'11", 230); West (6'9", 250)
Spurs: Duncan (6'11", 255); Splitter (6'11", 240); Bonner (6'10", 235); Diaw (6'8", 235)
Warriors: Bogut (7'0", 260); Landry (6'9", 248); Ezeli (6'11", 255); Lee (6'9", 240)
Thunder: Perkins (6'10", 270); Ibaka (6'10", 235); Collison (6'10", 255); Thabeet (7'3", 263)
Grizzlies: Gasol (7'1", 265); Randolph (6'9", 260); Daye (6'11", 200); Arthur (6'9", 235)

I bolded the guys whose games and size most similarly correlate to Mason's size/athleticism/skillset. Note that they range from being simply an energy guy (like Andersen) to a nearly All-Star caliber (Lee). But notice as well how few of those guys are 260 or heavier (only 7; and most of those 7 are centers that are 7'0" or taller). If Mason adds only 5 lbs to get to 245, he's right on par with the bigs on the best teams in the NBA.

Now, Mason might not make it in the pros. But if he doesn't make it, I suspect it will be because of footwork limitations rather than size/physicality issues.


I think his rebounding will translate, and he can run the floor, but is that good enough?

Absolutely. There is always a place for a 6'10" leaper who can rebound, finish in transition, and score a little in the post. Pair him with the right team, and he could be a huge presence at PF. But at the very least, he could have a Hansbrough-like career in the NBA, even without a solid jumpshot.

[Billy Dat]

Absolutely. There is always a place for a 6'10" leaper who can rebound, finish in transition, and score a little in the post. Pair him with the right team, and he could be a huge presence at PF. But at the very least, he could have a Hansbrough-like career in the NBA, even without a solid jumpshot.

Another thing working in his favor is that he is smart and will be able to execute the increasingly complex NBA offensive and defensive schemes. That, plus his athleticism, should keep him in the league as long as he stays healthy. I don't think he's going to be a star, but, to me, having a successful career means 10 years and at least $30MM. I think he can pull that off.

[CDu]

Another thing working in his favor is that he is smart and will be able to execute the increasingly complex NBA offensive and defensive schemes. That, plus his athleticism, should keep him in the league as long as he stays healthy. I don't think he's going to be a star, but, to me, having a successful career means 10 years and at least $30MM. I think he can pull that off.

Agreed. Also note that he's (for his size) a very solid ballhandler and willing and able passer. And who knows? If he can develop any sort of a jumpshot, he could have a VERY nice career.

[Channing]

wrt Seth, remember (and how can we forget - we heard about it ad nauseum) he played last year with a bad leg. I seem to recall he was a pretty good defender the prior season, and I think it is not wholly inconceivable his defense is significantly better than he showed this year, because his lateral quickness is actually better than he was able to display this year. He may never be an all NBA defender, but don't think its fair the evaluate his defensive prowess based on last year.

[CDu]

wrt Seth, remember (and how can we forget - we heard about it ad nauseum) he played last year with a bad leg. I seem to recall he was a pretty good defender the prior season, and I think it is not wholly inconceivable his defense is significantly better than he showed this year, because his lateral quickness is actually better than he was able to display this year. He may never be an all NBA defender, but don't think its fair the evaluate his defensive prowess based on last year.

I am not basing my assessment of Curry only on last year. I don't think he was ever a good defender. And he certainly wasn't as good a defender as Dixon.

[antseg]

Heights of the guys you probably care about:

It's Insider but some of the stuff has gone out on twitter, so hopefully it's cool to post this here (link to article for ESPN Insiders: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/id/9284003/2013-nba-draft-draft-measurements-noel-muhammad-concern-some-gms)

Going to go Without Shoes - With Shoes - Wingspan - Reach

Seth Curry: 6'1" - 6'3" - 6'4" - 1'1.5"
Ryan Kelly: 6'9.75" - 6'11.75" - 6'11.5" - 9'2"
Mason Plumlee: 6'11.25" - 7'0.5" - 6'11" - 9'0"

Other notables:
Shabazz came up really short (6'4.75") as did Oladipo (6'3.25"). There are a lot of concerns about Shabazz since he was projected as a SF and his size is a serious impetus to that; Oladipo I think was a SG/SF guy so this makes him slot in as a probably SG.

Kelly actually had the highest pct. body fat at 14%. This is most likely because he is injured. Larkin came in under 6'. The french prospect Rudy Gorbert had a 9'7" reach, which is just ridiculous. He has a 7'8.5" wingspan (Reports: Bilas has left his wife for Rudy Gorbert, saying "I love me some wingspan!"). This might be bad for Plumlee, as Gorbert may rise about him.

Lastly, Plumlee has really impressed in workouts according to Chad Ford. Apparently there is a split in teams: some have him top-10 and some have him in the 20s. I honestly think this is simply a matter of preference: a team like NO might have him lower simply because they might not have much use for him and he isn't a superstar waiting to happen, so they project him in the 20s just because they put SGs and SFs ahead of him. A team like Cleveland might have him much higher because they need Cs (though obviously they wouldn't take him because they're likely to get a very high pick).

His agent apparently removed him from workouts. I don't understand this, as Plumlee's workouts are what made him look good in the first place, but I guess that's why I'm not paid the big bucks to represent players.

There is little to no talk of Kelly and Curry as potential draft prospects from Ford. Maybe Curry's last name + Steph's performance might help him get a 1st round reach or at least a 2nd round sniff (despite how you feel about getting picked in the 2nd round, it still is a nice thing to happen). Kelly probably has little to no shot right now due to his injury.

[Channing]

I am not basing my assessment of Curry only on last year. I don't think he was ever a good defender. And he certainly wasn't as good a defender as Dixon.

Agreed on Dixon. Dixon was an elite defender. But I do remember Seth being more agile as a redshirt junior and being able to better stay in front of his man. In fact, I think he had quite a few key steals as a RS junior.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Agreed on Dixon. Dixon was an elite defender. But I do remember Seth being more agile as a redshirt junior and being able to better stay in front of his man. In fact, I think he had quite a few key steals as a RS junior.

I remember it very differently. Our backcourt D was decent this past year; in the 2011-2012 season, it was horrific, possible one of the worst under Coach K's tenure. And Seth was a big reason for that (along with Rivers and the injured Cook). He played good positional defense, but he often got burned by quicker 2s and especially quicker 1s.

This year, Seth guarded only the 2s, and Rasheed's incredibly on-the-ball defense put less pressure on Seth to perform well on defense. Seth is an elite shooter, a great scorer, an above-average driver, a good distributor, but a subpar defender.

[loran16]

-Carrick Felix (6'4.75 without shoes, 6'9.25 wingspan, 203 pounds), registered a body fat percentage of 3.3%, one of the 10 best marks ever measured. Shane Larkin had the second lowest at 3.8%. Ryan Kelly had the highest by a sizeable margin at 14.8%.

Never really thought of Kelly as having a weight issue.

[Channing]

Never really thought of Kelly as having a weight issue.

not sure Ryan's issue is as much a excess weight issue as it is a lack of muscle issue.

[antseg]

Never really thought of Kelly as having a weight issue.

Chad Ford claims it is due to his injury. I think it is simply not being able to work out.

[luburch]

Anyone have any information on how the combine went today? I've seen bits and pieces but nothing major.

[gwlaw99]

Mason measured as the tallest college player at the combine and second only to Rudy Gobert from France.

[antseg]

Heights of the guys you probably care about:

It's Insider but some of the stuff has gone out on twitter, so hopefully it's cool to post this here (link to article for ESPN Insiders: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/id/9284003/2013-nba-draft-draft-measurements-noel-muhammad-concern-some-gms)

Going to go Without Shoes - With Shoes - Wingspan - Reach

Seth Curry: 6'1" - 6'3" - 6'4" - 1'1.5"
Ryan Kelly: 6'9.75" - 6'11.75" - 6'11.5" - 9'2"
Mason Plumlee: 6'11.25" - 7'0.5" - 6'11" - 9'0"

Other notables:
Shabazz came up really short (6'4.75") as did Oladipo (6'3.25"). There are a lot of concerns about Shabazz since he was projected as a SF and his size is a serious impetus to that; Oladipo I think was a SG/SF guy so this makes him slot in as a probably SG.

Kelly actually had the highest pct. body fat at 14%. This is most likely because he is injured. Larkin came in under 6'. The french prospect Rudy Gorbert had a 9'7" reach, which is just ridiculous. He has a 7'8.5" wingspan (Reports: Bilas has left his wife for Rudy Gorbert, saying "I love me some wingspan!"). This might be bad for Plumlee, as Gorbert may rise about him.

Lastly, Plumlee has really impressed in workouts according to Chad Ford. Apparently there is a split in teams: some have him top-10 and some have him in the 20s. I honestly think this is simply a matter of preference: a team like NO might have him lower simply because they might not have much use for him and he isn't a superstar waiting to happen, so they project him in the 20s just because they put SGs and SFs ahead of him. A team like Cleveland might have him much higher because they need Cs (though obviously they wouldn't take him because they're likely to get a very high pick).

His agent apparently removed him from workouts. I don't understand this, as Plumlee's workouts are what made him look good in the first place, but I guess that's why I'm not paid the big bucks to represent players.

There is little to no talk of Kelly and Curry as potential draft prospects from Ford. Maybe Curry's last name + Steph's performance might help him get a 1st round reach or at least a 2nd round sniff (despite how you feel about getting picked in the 2nd round, it still is a nice thing to happen). Kelly probably has little to no shot right now due to his injury.

I posted some stuff here about measurements of our players but it likely got buried.

Mason is not going to be doing workouts. Curry did not shoot in the top 5 percentage wise from the field BECAUSE HE IS NOT PARTICIPATING, OBVIOUSLY.

Steven Adams of Pitt apparently has looked really, really good offensively. Scouts now say he is top-10 (probably moving ahead of Mason). I imagine that if they do 1-on-1s they will match up against one another.

[gwlaw99]

Curry did not shoot in the top 5 percentage wise from the field.

Curry is participating?

[antseg]

Curry is participating?

Wow. Makes sense. Sorry about that.

To add to the discussion: Reggie Bullock was tied for 3rd in shooting (72%) and Myck Kobango and Shabazz Mohammed were the worst shooters.

'Bazz's stock is falling. I guess his father should have found a taller mate.

[dukelifer]

Question: Who has the second highest vertical in NBA combine history?

Answer: Shane Larkin

That is surprising! Better than Lebron, better than Carter, Better than Iverson. I had no idea.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/17/4341154/nba-draft-combine-2013-shane-larkin-shabazz-muhammad

[Newton_14]

At the risk of offending/infuriating many on here, I'll share my OPINION (which is all it is). McGary is a "high-motor" guy and seems to have a "warrior" mentality. In my OPINION, neither of these qualities describes Mason. And I can see how some would say the difference is merely stylistic. Mason spent more time establishing position and calling for the ball, whereas McGary got more garbage-time baskets.

I mean, we'll see. Mason is definitely going to have to learn to take it to the hole STRONG in the NBA, because he doesn't yet have anything else besides a jump hook to rely on. I'm hopeful that he develops more as an offensive threat, and maybe the "less-physical" (in the eyes of many) nature of the NBA will be to his advantage and he will blossom.


Sorry but totally disagree with this assessment of Mason. He was absolutely a high motor guy and warrior this past season. He just had to play smart on defense to avoid fouls such that he could stay on the court for 38-40 minutes per night. He scored with a variety of moves in the low post. Jumphooks with either hand from both sides of the block, skyhooks across the middle, spin moves on the baseline, and up and under moves after faking the hook in the middle. Like always he was also a rebounding machine, and a leader. Not sure what else we could have asked of him. He had an All American level year. Had Ryan not gone down, Mason stays in the Player of The year race with better overall numbers to the very end. And as much as we used him, we still did not use him enough. He should have gotten 3 to 4 more shot attempts per game than what he got. The one area he could have been better was crashing the offensive boards. He did not do that enough.

Mason will be a really good Pro. No doubt in my mind on that.

[sagegrouse]

At the risk of offending/infuriating many on here, I'll share my OPINION (which is all it is). McGary is a "high-motor" guy and seems to have a "warrior" mentality. In my OPINION, neither of these qualities describes Mason. And I can see how some would say the difference is merely stylistic. Mason spent more time establishing position and calling for the ball, whereas McGary got more garbage-time baskets.

I mean, we'll see. Mason is definitely going to have to learn to take it to the hole STRONG in the NBA, because he doesn't yet have anything else besides a jump hook to rely on. I'm hopeful that he develops more as an offensive threat, and maybe the "less-physical" (in the eyes of many) nature of the NBA will be to his advantage and he will blossom.

You may have seen glimpses of the "warrior mentality" in McGary, but that's all you saw. He played only 19.7 minutes per game and averaged a mere 7.5 points and a very respectable 6.3 rebounds. And this "freshman" just turned 21YO.

Mason, on the other hand, averaged 34.7, 17.1 and 10.0. Moreover, Mason was consensus second team A-A. McGary didn't earn any honors beyond all-freshman whatever. Maybe McGary is gonna be a great player or maybe he's just a guy that was hot for a few games.

And why would you take the "risk of offending/infuriating many" by bringing this stuff to your friends at DBR? That's not exactly community spirit.

sagegrouse
'It's OK to criticize Dukies here. It is not OK to criticize Dukies without acknowledging that some will, with good reason, have a very different opinion'

[antseg]

Question: Who has the second highest vertical in NBA combine history?

Answer: Shane Larkin

That is surprising! Better than Lebron, better than Carter, Better than Iverson. I had no idea.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/17/4341154/nba-draft-combine-2013-shane-larkin-shabazz-muhammad

Maybe the possibility of him becoming a JJ Barea or Nate Robinson? Undersized guy that comes off the bench and adds a boost?

[sporthenry]

As far as Mason is concerned, I think he might be better served falling a bit and going to the right franchise. Going to someone like the Bobcats or even the Pelicans might be very detrimental to him. But if he can go somewhere where they ask very little of him, I think he can continue to carve out his role.

I do agree with the poster earlier who said Mason wasn't the biggest high motor guy. We can get into why but Hansbrough was seen as a high motor guy and he played 30+ minutes without foul issues. I have faith Mason will show this at the next level but I think it is a valid concern b/c NBA teams will want him to use his size/athleticism to be a factor on the glass/defense especially when he isn't involved in the offense which seemed to be an issue at times. Now I do expect post entry to be better in the NBA b/c quite frankly, Duke was pretty terrible at it and their guards often missed open big men but Mason won't be better than the 3rd option on the floor and often times will be worse.

I think falling to a Boston would seem like a great fit or even a Chicago. Get into a no nonsense system and learn from veterans who work hard on both ends. Playing with Rondo will give him the chance to get out in open space. The only concern might be his lack of an outside shot.

[JNort]

I posted some stuff here about measurements of our players but it likely got buried.

Mason is not going to be doing workouts. Curry did not shoot in the top 5 percentage wise from the field BECAUSE HE IS NOT PARTICIPATING, OBVIOUSLY.

Steven Adams of Pitt apparently has looked really, really good offensively. Scouts now say he is top-10 (probably moving ahead of Mason). I imagine that if they do 1-on-1s they will match up against one another.

What about Scott Wood? Is there a list of the shooters?

[antseg]

What about Scott Wood? Is there a list of the shooters?

Wasn't invited.

Complete list of invitees: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/13/complete-nba-draft-combine-invite-list/

According to a forum on IC I read looking for info on Wood (so take with a grain of salt) 50/61 invited to the combine got drafted last year.


As far as Mason is concerned, I think he might be better served falling a bit and going to the right franchise. Going to someone like the Bobcats or even the Pelicans might be very detrimental to him. But if he can go somewhere where they ask very little of him, I think he can continue to carve out his role.

I do agree with the poster earlier who said Mason wasn't the biggest high motor guy. We can get into why but Hansbrough was seen as a high motor guy and he played 30+ minutes without foul issues. I have faith Mason will show this at the next level but I think it is a valid concern b/c NBA teams will want him to use his size/athleticism to be a factor on the glass/defense especially when he isn't involved in the offense which seemed to be an issue at times. Now I do expect post entry to be better in the NBA b/c quite frankly, Duke was pretty terrible at it and their guards often missed open big men but Mason won't be better than the 3rd option on the floor and often times will be worse.

I think falling to a Boston would seem like a great fit or even a Chicago. Get into a no nonsense system and learn from veterans who work hard on both ends. Playing with Rondo will give him the chance to get out in open space. The only concern might be his lack of an outside shot.

I think he would be a great post passer, a la a poor man's M. Gasol (or actually a M. Gasol of a few years ago). A team like the Knicks that has a bunch of shooters could be good, but I don't think he would fare better than Chandler inside against bigger Cs. Maybe OKC? He might work well with a PG that can get him the ball as well as not having to score much.

Or, if he really falls, Miami could be decent. Maybe I see Plumlee's pro potential differently than others here, but I feel like he can be a serviceable passing big man early on who develops his offensive and defensive games to fit the pros.

[devildeac]

Never really thought of Kelly as having a weight issue.


not sure Ryan's issue is as much a excess weight issue as it is a lack of muscle issue.


Chad Ford claims it is due to his injury. I think it is simply not being able to work out.

I saw the average % body fat was about 6.5% and Seth was measured at 9.6%. I'd guess that could also be attributed to his injury and lack of serious, extended work out times.

[slower]

You may have seen glimpses of the "warrior mentality" in McGary, but that's all you saw. He played only 19.7 minutes per game and averaged a mere 7.5 points and a very respectable 6.3 rebounds. And this "freshman" just turned 21YO.

Mason, on the other hand, averaged 34.7, 17.1 and 10.0. Moreover, Mason was consensus second team A-A. McGary didn't earn any honors beyond all-freshman whatever. Maybe McGary is gonna be a great player or maybe he's just a guy that was hot for a few games.

And why would you take the "risk of offending/infuriating many" by bringing this stuff to your friends at DBR? That's not exactly community spirit.

sagegrouse
'It's OK to criticize Dukies here. It is not OK to criticize Dukies without acknowledging that some will, with good reason, have a very different opinion'

My comments, made a while ago, were (as I dimly recall) a response to somebody going on about how much better Mason was than McGary. I happen to disagree with that assessment. You happen to disagree with MY assessment. Only time will tell.

McGary averaged 14.3 PPG and 10.7 RPG in the NCAA tournament, while Mason averaged 16PPG and 8RPG. McGary came on strong at the end of the year, when he finally became a starter.

McGary's 21 years old. How old is Mason, 23? So?

Mason was second-team A-A. McGary is preseason first-team A-A next year.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends people - it's JUST an opinion (as is yours). Although I frequently drink the dark blue Kool-Aid, I don't have to bathe in it and put in in my car's radiator. I'm capable of independent thought and - GASP! - even criticism of some things Duke.

Mason seems like an awesome human being. I wish him nothing but the greatest success. My opinion of his basketball skill vs. McGary is in no way a judgment of him as a person.

Maybe he'll be everything we all thought he COULD be (but, in the eyes of many, never quite delivered) in the NBA and maybe McGary will be a flash-in-the-pan bust. As I said, only time will tell.

[Double DD]

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2013&source=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=

DraftExpress has the athletic testing up now in their database.

Here's how Mason did relatively speaking to the other centers and power forwards.

No Step Vert: 30.5 inches (5th of 18)
No Step Vert Reach: 11'8" (3rd of 18)
Max Vert: 36.0 inches (5th of 18)
Max Vert Reach: 12'0" (3rd of 18)
Agility: 10.89 (2nd of 18)
Sprint: 3.29 (2nd of 18)

A terrific overall performance by him. Not as good as what Miles did last year, but still excellent.

Despite those results, Mason was only the second best big man. Cody Zeller was definitely the most impressive in the testing. He finished 1st in 4 of the 6 categories and was top 5 in the other two.

[tommy]

My comments, made a while ago, were (as I dimly recall) a response to somebody going on about how much better Mason was than McGary. I happen to disagree with that assessment. You happen to disagree with MY assessment. Only time will tell.

McGary averaged 14.3 PPG and 10.7 RPG in the NCAA tournament, while Mason averaged 16PPG and 8RPG. McGary came on strong at the end of the year, when he finally became a starter.

McGary's 21 years old. How old is Mason, 23? So?

Mason was second-team A-A. McGary is preseason first-team A-A next year.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends people - it's JUST an opinion (as is yours). Although I frequently drink the dark blue Kool-Aid, I don't have to bathe in it and put in in my car's radiator. I'm capable of independent thought and - GASP! - even criticism of some things Duke.

Mason seems like an awesome human being. I wish him nothing but the greatest success. My opinion of his basketball skill vs. McGary is in no way a judgment of him as a person.

Maybe he'll be everything we all thought he COULD be (but, in the eyes of many, never quite delivered) in the NBA and maybe McGary will be a flash-in-the-pan bust. As I said, only time will tell.

I for one will be interested to see how effective McGary is when he is the focus of the opponent's defense, which he definitely was not last year. He was more like a 4th option. He won't have Trey Burke not only as the focus of the defense, but also dishing him the ball in great scoring position. Nor will he have Tim Hardaway Jr. absorbing defensive pressure. McGary can hit the 12-15 foot jumper better than Plumlee at this point. I will say that. Now maybe McGary will be excellent even as a go-to guy. Maybe not. But we do know that Mason Plumlee put up major numbers against the best competition in the nation, and earned 2nd team A-A honors, while he was the primary focus of most of the defenses Duke faced last year. Teams that tried to play him straight up, without doubling, often paid and paid big. He demanded double teams, which was of huge benefit to the team's offense. Will McGary do the same? We shall see.

[brevity]

So the draft lottery (http://www.nba.com/news/2013-nba-draft-order/index.html) took place last night.

1. Cleveland
2. Orlando
3. Washington
4. Charlotte
5. Phoenix
6. New Orleans
7. Sacramento
8. Detroit
9. Minnesota
10. Portland
11. Philadelphia
12. Oklahoma City (from Toronto)
13. Dallas
14. Utah

NBA.com also has a post-lottery mock draft here (http://www.nba.com/2013/news/05/22/2013-nba-mock-draft-howard-cooper/index.html). Good news for Duke fans: the writer has Mason Plumlee going 11th to the 76ers. Bad news for Duke fans: he has Victor Oladipo going 4th to the Bobcats.

This seems like the kind of draft where it doesn't matter whether you have a #3 pick or a #7 pick, just because the quality of players seems pretty fluid. Honestly, I'm not convinced that Noel and McLemore are that much better than anyone else -- I think the consensus is more of a default.

[licc85]

I agree that Noel and McLemore aren't that much better than the rest of the top guys, but I still think the Cavs can't do much better than Noel. They COULD take Otto Porter and fill a big need, but is it worth it? Would they consider trading down? Noel is possibly a significant upgrade over Tristan Thompson at the PF slot, or they could try to deal Varejao for a SF and go with a young frontline of Noel and Thompson. Considering they are making next year their big playoff push, I don't see them dealing a valuable veteran big like Varejao, and it wouldn't make sense to trade Thompson while he's on a cheap rookie contract. I also don't see them taking McLemore first overall either, unless he can play the 3. They already have a good 2-guard in Dion Waiters, who I think might actually be better than McLemore anyway. They'll most likely take Noel, but I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if they took Porter #1.

I just hope whoever they take, it'll be someone who complements Kyrie and Waiters well, and helps them possibly make it in the 2nd round of the playoffs or even further. It could happen if the team gels and the important pieces stay healthy. Watching Kyrie in the playoffs would be pretty amazing. He's already one of the best clutch scorers in the league.

[Highlander]

So the draft lottery (http://www.nba.com/news/2013-nba-draft-order/index.html) took place last night.

1. Cleveland
2. Orlando
3. Washington
4. Charlotte
5. Phoenix
6. New Orleans
7. Sacramento
8. Detroit
9. Minnesota
10. Portland
11. Philadelphia
12. Oklahoma City (from Toronto)
13. Dallas
14. Utah

NBA.com also has a post-lottery mock draft here (http://www.nba.com/2013/news/05/22/2013-nba-mock-draft-howard-cooper/index.html). Good news for Duke fans: the writer has Mason Plumlee going 11th to the 76ers. Bad news for Duke fans: he has Victor Oladipo going 4th to the Bobcats.

This seems like the kind of draft where it doesn't matter whether you have a #3 pick or a #7 pick, just because the quality of players seems pretty fluid. Honestly, I'm not convinced that Noel and McLemore are that much better than anyone else -- I think the consensus is more of a default.

I am not a fan of the lottery.

After the good news about the Bobcats rebranding as the Hornets it would have been nice to get a top 3 lottery pick. But of course Charlotte gets pushed out for the second year in a row. A bit bitter here in Charlotte today.

[antseg]

Chad Ford has Mason 17th in his latest mock draft:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/id/9299240/2013-nba-draft-chad-ford-mock-draft-30

Centers above Mason:
Noel - 1
Len - 6
Zeller - 11
Steven Adams - 12

Before Zeller and Adams had impressive combine workouts (Zeller showing athleticism and Adams showing any resemblance of an offensive game), I think Mason was slightly behind Zeller and well ahead of Adams.

If this is how the draft actually plays out, then I think it was foolish of Mason's agent to have him sit out the combine (unless he has some major flaw that miraculously didn't show up in 4 years of playing). There was buzz that he may have been led to believe he was a top 10 pick (whether that was *wink, wink* or his agent getting overly excited). There is no indication that a team has made any promises to take him early, so it seems like Mason and his agent are comfortable where they think they will land.

I think things are going to start settling down a little. There are some 5-on-5s later on that will be hosted by the Nets with all teams having someone in attendance, but those are for fringe first/second rounders.

Other notables are McLemore going 4 to Charlotte (Burke and Porter jump him), Larkin going 21 to Utah and Reggie Bullock going 30 to the Suns.

The last one is off of his shooting performance during the combine, which makes me wonder how Seth could have fared if given the chance. Of course, it is easy to dismiss Bullock's placement in the first round since it is at 30, but I would be ecstatic if I saw Seth's name show up on a mock.

[CDu]

Before Zeller and Adams had impressive combine workouts (Zeller showing athleticism and Adams showing any resemblance of an offensive game), I think Mason was slightly behind Zeller and well ahead of Adams.

If this is how the draft actually plays out, then I think it was foolish of Mason's agent to have him sit out the combine (unless he has some major flaw that miraculously didn't show up in 4 years of playing). There was buzz that he may have been led to believe he was a top 10 pick (whether that was *wink, wink* or his agent getting overly excited). There is no indication that a team has made any promises to take him early, so it seems like Mason and his agent are comfortable where they think they will land.

I don't know that Mason's lack of participation hurt him one way or the other. I think what hurt him was that Adams and Zeller performed so well in the athletic testing (vertical, lane agility, sprint), while Mason didn't stand out. Zeller actually had better numbers across the board, which solidified his spot above Mason. But Adams' youth, his size/length, and his decent athletic testing pushed him ahead of Mason. I really don't think there was much that Mason could have done in the combine to combat that, besides doing better than he did in the athletic testing. The skills portion wasn't really going to provide much opportunity for Mason to stand out over Adams, and Zeller (like Mason) didn't participate either.


The last one is off of his shooting performance during the combine, which makes me wonder how Seth could have fared if given the chance. Of course, it is easy to dismiss Bullock's placement in the first round since it is at 30, but I would be ecstatic if I saw Seth's name show up on a mock.

I don't think Curry had much hope of getting drafted in the first round. His lack of height and lack of athleticism would have pushed him to the second round (at best). He has PG size but doesn't have PG skills or athleticism. And while he's a fabulous shooter, I think it will be very difficult for him to get his shot off in the NBA.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I am not a Cav's fan, but I am a Duke fan and hence a huge Kyrie fan. As we all know, Kyrie has the potential to be the greatest Duke NBA player, which is certainly saying something as we've produced Grant, Elton, Carlos, and Laettner (very underrated NBA player).

What should the Cav's do? Honestly, I think they need to tank this season. I know that tanking is an unpopular and unethical road, but let's face it - teams tank all the time in the NBA. By drafting Noel as the first pick, rehabbing him next year, and probably not performing all that much better, the Cav's will probably have another top 5 pick in what is supposed to be one of the deepest drafts possible. From Wiggins to Parker to Randle to Smart to Young, next year's draft is really good. So, they can have back-to-back top 5 picks and really start to crush it in 2014-2015.

Like all proposals, this one comes with a lot of risk. 1 - Kyrie will not like this idea at all. He has been incredibly critical of the way the Cavs have been playing, and tanking for another year will not help that. Furthermore, by the time it is the 2014-2015 season, Kyrie will be on his 4th season. By Kevin Durant's 4th season, they went to the Western Conference Finals. 2 - a few key assets will be entering new contracts, making it difficult for the Cavs to pursue free agency at that point and hence increasing their chances of making a run in the playoffs. 3 - tanking has it's risks, including insane criticism and an alienated fan base. 4 - will the Cavs be willing to lose in the short term to reap the benefits in the long-term?

Who knows? But the Cavs, with the 1 seed, aren't going far this year if they draft Noel (likely). But the year after? They could do some serious damage.

[antseg]

I don't know that Mason's lack of participation hurt him one way or the other. I think what hurt him was that Adams and Zeller performed so well in the athletic testing (vertical, lane agility, sprint), while Mason didn't stand out. Zeller actually had better numbers across the board, which solidified his spot above Mason. But Adams' youth, his size/length, and his decent athletic testing pushed him ahead of Mason. I really don't think there was much that Mason could have done in the combine to combat that, besides doing better than he did in the athletic testing. The skills portion wasn't really going to provide much opportunity for Mason to stand out over Adams, and Zeller (like Mason) didn't participate either.

Agreed about Zeller, but I feel like he could've combated Adams' rise above him in certain circles had he performed in the skills part and done well. Adams showed an ability to make an open jumper. If Mason could have done the same, then we get into the debate of potential vs. results. He most likely loses that debate, but the fact that Adams showed *no* offensive ability in games might have actually caused it to be a debate.

My feeling is that Mason performed very, very well in early workouts - so well that he was getting buzz as the third C taken. While Zeller would have moved ahead of him due to his athleticism and he might be fighting with Adams right now for a spot, he could've done something to keep momentum going. Maybe I shouldn't have formed this as an argument of him vs. the other two, but I believe that he lost upward momentum.

And, yes, you may believe that momentum means nothing when the draft actually comes, but I feel like him keeping some positive buzz going may have helped push him into the lottery or even early lottery.


I don't think Curry had much hope of getting drafted in the first round. His lack of height and lack of athleticism would have pushed him to the second round (at best). He has PG size but doesn't have PG skills or athleticism. And while he's a fabulous shooter, I think it will be very difficult for him to get his shot off in the NBA.

I recognize how ridiculous it would be to expect Curry to show up on a mock draft in the first round. I don't think it is too ridiculous to expect him to be considered as a 2nd round pick right now and to let homerism and a lack of good sense make me think he *could* get a brief look if he makes his shots and people see his brother by the bay performing.

But, yes, I recognize that my statement came from a place of blind hope rather than one of reasoned thought.


Lastly, Cleveland apparently wants to trade their pick so that they could be competitive next year (apparently picking top-3 in a draft with Wiggins, Randle, Parker, etc is not enticing). Someone threw out Chicago trading Deng and Boozer and their #1 for the #1 overall. As Charles Barkley would say "dat trade is turrrible," but I couldn't stop salivating at having so many Duke starters on a team. Imagine if they went to the conference finals? What would people say about Duke's ability to produce talented players?

[Des Esseintes]

Lastly, Cleveland apparently wants to trade their pick so that they could be competitive next year (apparently picking top-3 in a draft with Wiggins, Randle, Parker, etc is not enticing). Someone threw out Chicago trading Deng and Boozer and their #1 for the #1 overall. As Charles Barkley would say "dat trade is turrrible," but I couldn't stop salivating at having so many Duke starters on a team. Imagine if they went to the conference finals? What would people say about Duke's ability to produce talented players?

1. The city of Cleveland hates Carlos Boozer at a level exceeded only by the Elways and Lebrons of history.
2. The Cavs with Boozer and Deng are not making the conference finals. They probably aren't making the playoffs. So it will leave perceptions of Duke players' pro performance unchanged.

[CDu]

1. The city of Cleveland hates Carlos Boozer at a level exceeded only by the Elways and Lebrons of history.
2. The Cavs with Boozer and Deng are not making the conference finals. They probably aren't making the playoffs. So it will leave perceptions of Duke players' pro performance unchanged.

Agreed on #1. Disagree on #2. I think that a team of Irving, Waiters, Deng, Boozer, and Varejao (assuming he is healthy) would make the playoffs. I don't think they'd be a high seed and I certainly don't think they'd make the Eastern Conference finals. But given how bad the East is from teams 6 downward, I think they'd stand a pretty good shot at making the playoffs.

[sagegrouse]

I don't know that Mason's lack of participation hurt him one way or the other. I think what hurt him was that Adams and Zeller performed so well in the athletic testing (vertical, lane agility, sprint), while Mason didn't stand out. Zeller actually had better numbers across the board, which solidified his spot above Mason. But Adams' youth, his size/length, and his decent athletic testing pushed him ahead of Mason. I really don't think there was much that Mason could have done in the combine to combat that, besides doing better than he did in the athletic testing. The skills portion wasn't really going to provide much opportunity for Mason to stand out over Adams, and Zeller (like Mason) didn't participate either.
.

The performance of Zeller and Adams was offset, if only partially, by the absolutely horrible performance of Nerlens Noel. How could that be, you ask, since he didn't work out at all? Well, he weighed 206 POUNDS and he wants to be a center in the NBA. Hunh?

sagegrouse

[tommy]

Lastly, Cleveland apparently wants to trade their pick so that they could be competitive next year (apparently picking top-3 in a draft with Wiggins, Randle, Parker, etc is not enticing). Someone threw out Chicago trading Deng and Boozer and their #1 for the #1 overall. As Charles Barkley would say "dat trade is turrrible," but I couldn't stop salivating at having so many Duke starters on a team. Imagine if they went to the conference finals? What would people say about Duke's ability to produce talented players?

Only one problem with this. Nobody wants the first pick, certainly not enough to trade anything of real value for it. Nerlens Noel may turn out to be a fine player, but right now he's a 206 pound guy without much offensive game coming off a major knee injury. Ben McLemore and Otto Porter and a few others may turn out to be a fine players too, but there are no "wow" guys in this draft that anyone wants to trade valuable pieces for. That comes next year.

[antseg]

Only one problem with this. Nobody wants the first pick, certainly not enough to trade anything of real value for it. Nerlens Noel may turn out to be a fine player, but right now he's a 206 pound guy without much offensive game coming off a major knee injury. Ben McLemore and Otto Porter and a few others may turn out to be a fine players too, but there are no "wow" guys in this draft that anyone wants to trade valuable pieces for. That comes next year.

Please don't turn this into an actual rumor. It was an aside.

And, actually, this would be a terrible trade for Cleveland. It is essentially a salary dump for Chicago as Boozer's contract is still considered awful at best and Deng is (I believe) going into the final year of his deal.

Lastly, for the Cleveland predictions: I obviously don't know how teams would shape up but I believe they would have a shot at one of the bottom seeds in the East with those guys. Miami, NY, Indiana, Chicago (with Rose), Nets would be better but they have a shot at being better than Atlanta, Boston (depending on who comes back), Milwaukee. They would compete with the Wizards as a team coming up, but a full season of Kyrie and Varejao would add some wins.

Someone made a comment on an ESPN article and it got me thinking of three Duke players starting together. That's all.


The performance of Zeller and Adams was offset, if only partially, by the absolutely horrible performance of Nerlens Noel. How could that be, you ask, since he didn't work out at all? Well, he weighed 206 POUNDS and he wants to be a center in the NBA. Hunh?

sagegrouse

Don't people gain weight when injured? Or is that just something my mother told me when I got fat after breaking my leg?

[UrinalCake]

So Noel is about the same weight as Amile Jefferson, and a few inches taller (and therefore skinnier). Somehow I'm not thinking he's going to be able to bang down low, despite his blocking abilities.

[CDu]

So Noel is about the same weight as Amile Jefferson, and a few inches taller (and therefore skinnier). Somehow I'm not thinking he's going to be able to bang down low, despite his blocking abilities.

I agree that he's not going to be able to bang down low. The hope would be that (a) he'll gain weight as he gets older and (b) his height and length (7'4" wingspan, 9'2" standing reach) allow him to be an adequate defensive PF (especially on help defense).

But really I don't think anyone projects him to be a star at the NBA level. In just about any other season, I don't think he'd even be a top-5 pick. But this year's draft is so bereft of top-end talent that he may end up going #1.

This year's draft class looks a bit like the 2000 NBA draft. That year, there just wasn't a superstar in the bunch. Just a lot of serviceable guys. Interestingly, the #1 pick was an undersized C who was coming off a major injury (Martin).

[Billy Dat]

My feeling is that Mason performed very, very well in early workouts - so well that he was getting buzz as the third C taken. While Zeller would have moved ahead of him due to his athleticism and he might be fighting with Adams right now for a spot, he could've done something to keep momentum going. Maybe I shouldn't have formed this as an argument of him vs. the other two, but I believe that he lost upward momentum. And, yes, you may believe that momentum means nothing when the draft actually comes, but I feel like him keeping some positive buzz going may have helped push him into the lottery or even early lottery.

Mason is going to spend the next month traveling city to city and playing head-to-head against some combination of Zeller, Olynyk, Dieng, Adams, Len, Gobert from France, and Withey. He'll likely participate in up to 15 of those sessions, so he'll have plenty of opportunities to display his talents and earn a lottery spot. I don't think he will, because team's will look at the young guys he's playing and, even if he outplays them, they'll be perceived as having more upside.

[UrinalCake]

This year's draft class looks a bit like the 2000 NBA draft. That year, there just wasn't a superstar in the bunch. Just a lot of serviceable guys. Interestingly, the #1 pick was an undersized C who was coming off a major injury (Martin).

Yeah, but Martin was head and shoulders above everybody else that year, while Noel is not. I think Noel has benefitted from coming in a year after Anthony Davis, so people have naturally grouped the two together. Anyways, if I were Cleveland I would seriously consider trading down and stockpiling guys and then hoping one of them surprises. Wouldn't it be funny if they took Mason with one of their later picks and he, Kyrie, and Tyler Zeller all ended up on the same team together?

[Starter]

Noel did block 4.4 shots per game. I mean, this isn't some chump here. When Noel fills out, and I don't see why he won't, know who he reminds me of? Two guys on the Bucks that literally any team would want to have right now: John Henson -- who showed out big-time at the end of the regular season -- and Larry Sanders. There were plenty of concerns about Henson's weight and offensive game too, and none of that seemed to matter when he played meaningful minutes. He was dominant.

The knee injury does give pause with Noel, but I can very easily see him being a major, major asset defensively on the next level with his physical abilities assuming whoever drafts him gives his injury proper time to heal. If I'm the Cavs, and I can't trade down -- which I doubt they can -- I'd pick Noel and wait for him to heal up and be a factor. Then I have Kyrie, Waiters, a burgeoning Tristan Thompson and Noel: Serious building blocks and not that far shy of being a contender for two years from now. I feel like there's a lot more upside with Noel than there is with McLemore, Porter or Oladipo.

[superdave]

Larry Sanders is a good comp. His per 40 stats are 14 and 14 and 4. But he's also 235lbs. If young N'erlins can add 10lbs a year for the next few years, he is on track. The Cavs do not need Noel right now there, not with Thompson, Zeller and Varajao. they can afford to be patient. Good fit.



Noel did block 4.4 shots per game. I mean, this isn't some chump here. When Noel fills out, and I don't see why he won't, know who he reminds me of? Two guys on the Bucks that literally any team would want to have right now: John Henson -- who showed out big-time at the end of the regular season -- and Larry Sanders. There were plenty of concerns about Henson's weight and offensive game too, and none of that seemed to matter when he played meaningful minutes. He was dominant.

The knee injury does give pause with Noel, but I can very easily see him being a major, major asset defensively on the next level with his physical abilities assuming whoever drafts him gives his injury proper time to heal. If I'm the Cavs, and I can't trade down -- which I doubt they can -- I'd pick Noel and wait for him to heal up and be a factor. Then I have Kyrie, Waiters, a burgeoning Tristan Thompson and Noel: Serious building blocks and not that far shy of being a contender for two years from now. I feel like there's a lot more upside with Noel than there is with McLemore, Porter or Oladipo.

[CDu]

Yeah, but Martin was head and shoulders above everybody else that year, while Noel is not. I think Noel has benefitted from coming in a year after Anthony Davis, so people have naturally grouped the two together. Anyways, if I were Cleveland I would seriously consider trading down and stockpiling guys and then hoping one of them surprises. Wouldn't it be funny if they took Mason with one of their later picks and he, Kyrie, and Tyler Zeller all ended up on the same team together?

The problem is that everyone realizes that this isn't a great draft. So I don't know that anyone is going to pay the premium (presumably two 1st rounders?) to get that #1 pick this year.

[airowe]

Thought you all might be interested in this Mason Plumlee interview. He talks about the teams he'll be working out for before the draft.


The teams that I have scheduled right now are Boston, Dallas, Phoenix, Portland, New Orleans and Philadelphia. The scheduling is still in the works though so there will be more teams that I will workout for besides those.

http://duke.247sports.com/Article/Mason-Plumlee-speaks-on-Duke-the-NBA-being-a-closet-7-footer-132013

[superdave]

Chad Ford Chat.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/48097/nba-insider-chad-ford

Worth a quick read.

[Here is a Turtle]

Chad Ford Chat.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/48097/nba-insider-chad-ford

Worth a quick read.

Interesting that he thinks Len has a shot at number 1 overall with that foot. I'm not sure I'd put him number 1 overall even when he's healthy.

[FerryFor50]

Interesting that he thinks Len has a shot at number 1 overall with that foot. I'm not sure I'd put him number 1 overall even when he's healthy.

Agreed. I'd be real worried about a player than dominated a potential #1 overall draft pick (Noel) and handled another first rounder (Plumlee) but then disappeared against just about everyone else, including much inferior competition.

Red flag IMO.

And what happens if Goodwin drops to the 2nd round? Does the calipari one and done factory get another dent in the armor?

[Here is a Turtle]

Agreed. I'd be real worried about a player than dominated a potential #1 overall draft pick (Noel) and handled another first rounder (Plumlee) but then disappeared against just about everyone else, including much inferior competition.

Red flag IMO.

And what happens if Goodwin drops to the 2nd round? Does the calipari one and done factory get another dent in the armor?

Alex Len can't handle double teams well and had terrible point guard play. Duke, Alabama, and Kentucky didn't double him, and Len owned them for the most part. However, Len stunk up the Comcast Center against Denver when they doubled him the whole game. A halfway decent point guard and we're in the tournament instead of the NIT again. While the thought of Kyrue Irving throwing lobs to Len is enticing, I can't see it happening.

[gwlaw99]

Agreed. I'd be real worried about a player than dominated a potential #1 overall draft pick (Noel) and handled another first rounder (Plumlee) but then disappeared against just about everyone else, including much inferior competition.

Len got outplayed by Plumlee 2/3 games last year.

[Here is a Turtle]

Len got outplayed by Plumlee 2/3 games last year.

I'd say he definitely got outplayed the first one. The second one Len clearly won. The third was a toss up. Dez Wells was so dominant that last game that Len wasn't too heavily relied on.

[Class of '94]

I'd say he definitely got outplayed the first one. The second one Len clearly won. The third was a toss up. Dez Wells was so dominant that last game that Len wasn't too heavily relied on.

I'm glad you clarified because I was about to point something out that was similar to this when you said Len owned Duke (and inherently Plumlee) this season.:) I also thought it was a bit strong when another poster said Len handled Mason this season. I believed Mason had better numbers against Len in that third game last season; however, you brought up a good point about how well Dez played in that ACCT against Duke and MD didn't really need Len to have big numbers in that game. Of course, I could argue that Mason was totally spent when he played against Len in that second game in College Park; and that led to Len having a good game against him. Overall, I would also argue that Mason did very well against Len for the two seasons Len played at MD (with Len only having one good/dominating game against Plumlee). Even Turgeon admitted that Mason had owned Alex prior to the College Park game this past season.

Alex Len is a hard player to figure out as many have noted. He appears to play soft a lot of times and that personally would concern me if I was a NBA GM; but again, you brought up a good point in that maybe he has a hard time against double teams and could do well in single coverage. Of course, he would have to get better at dealing with double teams as his career progresses in the NBA; but with his size and skills, he may do well in the league.

[theAlaskanBear]

This conversation about the potential of the various big men in the draft is precisely why I would draft Otto Porter at #1 if I were the Cavs. Cleveland can get a decent big at # 19 -- Plumlee, Dieng, Gobert, Olynyk, Noguiera are all predicted to go in this area. I hope Plumlee gets drafted higher, but it would be neat to see him playing with Kyrie again ;)

[brevity]

This conversation about the potential of the various big men in the draft is precisely why I would draft Otto Porter at #1 if I were the Cavs.

What if you WERE the Cavs?

Calling Jason Evans to start the 2013 DBR Mock Draft! We started about this time last year. Now that I live in an NBA city, I almost kind of care.

[Here is a Turtle]

What about the unwritten draft rule: If you see a big man that could possibly be your franchise, you take him. Hobert helped Indiana make that a series. Len had a shot at being that number 1 big man and got injured. Still, the fact that he apparently played with a stress fracture since early February is admirable. I can't knock that. I'd be interesting to see if he's catching lobs from Irving in Cleveland or New Orleans with Vasquez.

Side note, I hear more and more Plumlee and Olynyk are projected as a 4 in the NBA. Thoughts?

[theAlaskanBear]

What about the unwritten draft rule: If you see a big man that could possibly be your franchise, you take him. Hobert helped Indiana make that a series. Len had a shot at being that number 1 big man and got injured. Still, the fact that he apparently played with a stress fracture since early February is admirable. I can't knock that. I'd be interesting to see if he's catching lobs from Irving in Cleveland or New Orleans with Vasquez.

Side note, I hear more and more Plumlee and Olynyk are projected as a 4 in the NBA. Thoughts?

I would agree with Olynyk...he could play the 4 or 5 because he has a decent jumpshot and an ok handle. Plumlee is hsrder to say, but I am not sure he has enough shooting to play the 4 -- he wouldn't stretch the offense, and he and the center would be competing for the same offensive space.

Now, if he really works on it and develops a consistent 10-15 ft shot, then sure. More and more teams are looking for shooters, running offenses that spread you out...

Offensively his game reminds me more of these guys: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

than these guys: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf

[CDu]

I would agree with Olynyk...he could play the 4 or 5 because he has a decent jumpshot and an ok handle. Plumlee is kind of a tweener, but I am not sure he has enough shooting to play the 4 -- he wouldn't stretch the offense, and he and the center would be competing for space.

Now, if he really works on it and develops a consistent 10-15 ft shot, then sure.

Yeah, given Mason's lack of a jumpshot, and given his height, leaping ability, and strength, I would envision most of his time coming at C. Of course, if he can expand his shooting range and continue to improve his ballhandling, there's no reason he couldn't play at the 4 as well. But I suspect that his early career will be at the C position (and likely as a backup C at that).

I'm kind of hoping he continues the trend of Duke players going to the Bulls. He'd be a nice complement to Taj Gibson on the Bulls' second unit.

[NSDukeFan]

What about the unwritten draft rule: If you see a big man that could possibly be your franchise, you take him. Hobert helped Indiana make that a series. Len had a shot at being that number 1 big man and got injured. Still, the fact that he apparently played with a stress fracture since early February is admirable. I can't knock that. I'd be interesting to see if he's catching lobs from Irving in Cleveland or New Orleans with Vasquez.

Side note, I hear more and more Plumlee and Olynyk are projected as a 4 in the NBA. Thoughts?

My first thought was how Len would combine with that other possible franchise centre, Fran Vazquez, but I guess you were probably referring to Greivis.

[Here is a Turtle]

My first thought was how Len would combine with that other possible franchise centre, Fran Vazquez, but I guess you were probably referring to Greivis.

I thought Fran Vasquez was with Orlando or Barcelona

[NSDukeFan]

I thought Fran Vasquez was with Orlando or Barcelona

He was drafted by Orlando, but stayed in Spain.

[ice-9]

Yeah, given Mason's lack of a jumpshot, and given his height, leaping ability, and strength, I would envision most of his time coming at C. Of course, if he can expand his shooting range and continue to improve his ballhandling, there's no reason he couldn't play at the 4 as well. But I suspect that his early career will be at the C position (and likely as a backup C at that).

I'm kind of hoping he continues the trend of Duke players going to the Bulls. He'd be a nice complement to Taj Gibson on the Bulls' second unit.


Mason's biggest problem at the 4 is his lateral movement...he wouldn't be able to contain the more explosive PFs. My guess is he'll primarily play C, and PF only with the right match-up.

[gwlaw99]

Mason's biggest problem at the 4 is his lateral movement...he wouldn't be able to contain the more explosive PFs. My guess is he'll primarily play C, and PF only with the right match-up.

His lane agility test at the combine was pretty good. Better than Glenn Rice, Michael Snaer, Isaiah Canaan, Trey Burke, Otto Porter and about 40 other people so I am not sure why there is a disconnect with this perception. I think a lot of this perception comes out of his not wanting to get into foul trouble with Ryan out, and getting back screened on pick and rolls in the Louisville game.

[CDu]

His lane agility test at the combine was pretty good. Better than Glenn Rice, Michael Snaer, Isaiah Canaan, Trey Burke, Otto Porter and about 40 other people so I am not sure why there is a disconnect with this perception. I think a lot of this perception comes out of his not wanting to get into foul trouble with Ryan out, and getting back screened on pick and rolls in the Louisville game.

The perception is rooted in reality. But I think the reality is that, while Mason apparently does have quickness, he doesn't necessarily have great court awareness or anticipation. So he can do well in a lane agility test, which is a setting in which he knows exactly where to go and when he needs to make a cut. But in a game situation, his reaction time can be slow and thus he is frequently out of position and looks like he lacks lateral quickness. So while the reasoning behind it is different, the result is the same.

The "avoiding foul trouble" argument has been overplayed in my opinion. Yes, when Kelly was injured, we needed Mason to stay on the floor. But that was for 14 games in one season. He had 22 other games this year and 3 previous years worth of data to consider, and the lack of quickness appeared more than just this year.

[sporthenry]

Mason is a workout freak. I would expect his numbers to jump out at you and if someone falls in love with the combine numbers, it is hard to look past him. But even if you think Mason left some on the table defensively, he still wasn't a great defender. But this is college basketball where more often than not, the other team didn't have a great C and he was so good offensively that his defense could be overlooked.

In the NBA, this is no longer the case. His offense won't be as good so he will be expected to contribute more defensively and on the glass. Can he do it? Sure, but it will be a mindset thing. There were a few times this year when he seemed to let his lack of offense affect his whole game. He can't let that happen. And I'm sure when a team sees his leaping ability and athleticism, they will expect him to be able to guard most big men and provide a presence at the rim.

[gwlaw99]

So while the reasoning behind it is different, the result is the same.

True, but, for the most part, you can't fix a lack of quickness. You can improve court awareness. Although you could argue that if he hasn't developed it yet, he won't, I am not ready to write him improving off completely.

[Saratoga2]

I was surprised to read that the pre-draft camp measurements for Mason had him at 6'11 1/4" in stocking feet and 238. He also did 14 reps so he is strong. That makes him taller than several like Whithey and Zellar. I always thought of him as about 6'10" while at Duke. Interestingly his standing reach is less than Ryan Kelly's who measured out a 6'9 3/4" in stocking feet, which is the same number he related in an interview early in the year.

Mason's standing jump was 30" and active jump was 35", so he is springy without being a freak. I would think he is best suited for the center position in the NBA, but probably would need a little added bulk to be effective. His lack of touch with any kind of jump shot makes it unlikely that he could get a look at the forward position.

[ice-9]

His lane agility test at the combine was pretty good. Better than Glenn Rice, Michael Snaer, Isaiah Canaan, Trey Burke, Otto Porter and about 40 other people so I am not sure why there is a disconnect with this perception. I think a lot of this perception comes out of his not wanting to get into foul trouble with Ryan out, and getting back screened on pick and rolls in the Louisville game.

CDu mentioned it, but I think it's more than simply reading the opponent -- it's also explosiveness from reacting to something that's more a physical trait than a mental one. Like if someone threw a ball at you; how quickly can you react to the ball being thrown and then move aside to dodge it? A lane agility test won't capture that. I'm sure Mason can improve on this by relying more on anticipation than reaction; but think we can all agree that he has struggled to keep up with containing dribblers in his four years at Duke. Then again, most centers do!

[theAlaskanBear]

CDu mentioned it, but I think it's more than simply reading the opponent -- it's also explosiveness from reacting to something that's more a physical trait than a mental one. Like if someone threw a ball at you; how quickly can you react to the ball being thrown and then move aside to dodge it? A lane agility test won't capture that. I'm sure Mason can improve on this by relying more on anticipation than reaction; but think we can all agree that he has struggled to keep up with containing dribblers in his four years at Duke. Then again, most centers do!

I think you have a point ice-9. Mason has great athleticism and potential, is developing some post moves, but is not an elite defender.

I think the big determination of how he will succeed at the next level is how "instinctual" of a player he can become. He's a smart guy and make the right decisions, but can it become nearly instantaneous? You could (at least I felt this way) feel Mason think on the court at times for Duke -- those decisions have to become split second and forceful in the NBA. I think he can really make an impact if that is the case.

[CDu]

I think you have a point ice-9. Mason has great athleticism and potential, is developing some post moves, but is not an elite defender.

I think the big determination of how he will succeed at the next level is how "instinctual" of a player he can become. He's a smart guy and make the right decisions, but can it become nearly instantaneous? You could (at least I felt this way) feel Mason think on the court at times for Duke -- those decisions have to become split second and forceful in the NBA. I think he can really make an impact if that is the case.

Yeah, that's my concern with Mason. Despite terrific athleticism, the game has never seemed instinctive or intuitive for him. I don't know how likely it is for that instinctiveness to develop (it is my sense that such "feel" for the game has already emerged by now), but that could be the difference between him being a reserve (10-15 mpg) big man and being a starting-caliber big at the NBA level.

[Billy Dat]

NBA Job Interview: Mason Plumlee - interviewed by Bill Simmons and Jalen Rose (15 minutes long - really fun and interesting!)
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/66297/nba-job-interview-mason-plumlee-with-scouting-report

[UrinalCake]

I don't think this video has been posted yet - it's a scouting report video from DraftExpress that shows examples of Mason's strengths and weaknesses. Really cool stuff. Although 90% of the clips appear to come from games against Davidson and Temple LOL.

In the related videos there are links to profiles for other top prospects. Worth a look.

http://youtu.be/dhyZW-4sDHI

[BD80]

The NBA has issued 10 preliminary invitations to its "green room" for Thursday night's draft: Nerlens Noel (Kentucky); Victor Oladipo (Indiana); Otto Porter (Georgetown); Alex Len (Maryland); Anthony Bennett (UNLV); Ben McLemore (Kansas); Trey Burke (Michigan); Michael Carter-Williams (Syracuse); C.J. McCollum (Lehigh) and Cody Zeller (Indiana).

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/id/9413629/2013-nba-draft-10-players-invited-green-room-sources-say

[brevity]

The NBA has issued 10 preliminary invitations to its "green room" for Thursday night's draft: Nerlens Noel (Kentucky); Victor Oladipo (Indiana); Otto Porter (Georgetown); Alex Len (Maryland); Anthony Bennett (UNLV); Ben McLemore (Kansas); Trey Burke (Michigan); Michael Carter-Williams (Syracuse); C.J. McCollum (Lehigh) and Cody Zeller (Indiana).

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/id/9413629/2013-nba-draft-10-players-invited-green-room-sources-say

That's a damn safe list, IF (like me) you're interested in seeing who has to sit there in agony the longest. There's a decent chance that all of them will be lottery picks. My guess is that McCollum will be the last picked of this group, and still go in the top 15. (Top 12, probably.)

I hope the NBA extends a few more invites for the sake of drama, but the recent trend suggests risk aversion... or advance knowledge. It invited 15 players in 2011 (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/18/nba-draft-green-room-invite-list-reaches-15/) (Chris Singleton went last at #18) and 14 players in 2012 (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19420817/report-13-players-invited-to-2012-nba-draft-green-room) (Tyler Zeller went #17).

Bo-ring. Give me the cruelty of the NFL Draft any day of the week. Click to enlarge:

3449

Scha-den-freu-de! (Clap, clap, clap clap clap.)

[Billy Dat]

ESPN Insider ($) did a mock draft with 5 of its 10,000 NBA Draft Pundits...Dave Telep, Amin Elhassan, Fran Fraschilla, David Thorpe and Kevin Pelton. They did the draft snake style in the following order Telep - Pelton - Fraschilla - Thorpe - Elhassan. Anyway, the Duke-related interest is that not only did no one draft Mason, but Telep, picking for the Suns with the Final First Round pick (guaranteed money!) chose Ryan Kelly.

[CDu]

ESPN Insider ($) did a mock draft with 5 of its 10,000 NBA Draft Pundits...Dave Telep, Amin Elhassan, Fran Fraschilla, David Thorpe and Kevin Pelton. They did the draft snake style in the following order Telep - Pelton - Fraschilla - Thorpe - Elhassan. Anyway, the Duke-related interest is that not only did no one draft Mason, but Telep, picking for the Suns with the Final First Round pick (guaranteed money!) chose Ryan Kelly.

Yeah, I think that was a pretty poorly done mock draft. They are literally the only mock draft that doesn't have Mason in the top-20, and they are the only draft to have Kelly in the 1st round.

When all is said and done on Thursday, I'd expect them to be wrong on both counts.

[UrinalCake]

As I mentioned in the Finals thread, our own Shane Battier will be doing some commentary for ESPN at the draft! I can't wait to see him on camera, he's so smooth and well-spoken in interviews. They were talking to him about it on Mike and Mike this morning and he was even poking fun at Jay Bilas and his overuse of the terms "length" and "athleticism." Should be fun...

[Billy Dat]

As I mentioned in the Finals thread, our own Shane Battier will be doing some commentary for ESPN at the draft! I can't wait to see him on camera, he's so smooth and well-spoken in interviews. They were talking to him about it on Mike and Mike this morning and he was even poking fun at Jay Bilas and his overuse of the terms "length" and "athleticism." Should be fun...

This has a lot of potential because Shane is also, for lack of a better term, nerdy, and its rare that current NBA players fit that description. Just to explain, I don't mean it as the stereotypical tape on glasses getting sand kicked in his face, I mean it more as intellectual in a obsessive, geeky way.

Of course, there is a whole word of debate about what constitutes the difference between a nerd and a geek (let alone a freak, dork or twerp)
http://www.wikihow.com/Tell-the-Difference-Between-Nerds-and-Geeks

Tangents aside, I think Shane's inherent nerdiness/geekiness will result in little brown nosing of the talent being evaluated and more comments such as, "The best way to judge how focused a player will be is how much he pays attention to the 'Kiss Cam' taking place during timeouts".

[Dev11]

Did Shane retire from playing? If so, I would be willing to bet that this trial run for him covering the draft will soon lead to a position on ESPN's gigantic basketball on-air staff.

[antseg]

Did Shane retire from playing? If so, I would be willing to bet that this trial run for him covering the draft will soon lead to a position on ESPN's gigantic basketball on-air staff.

Not officially, but there were rumors earlier this month about him retiring (coinciding with his poor playoff performance). Sometimes current players are brought in to do some spots for ESPN, and Shane is definitely the type that would translate well to broadcasting.

[sagegrouse]

Did Shane retire from playing? If so, I would be willing to bet that this trial run for him covering the draft will soon lead to a position on ESPN's gigantic basketball on-air staff.


Not officially, but there were rumors earlier this month about him retiring (coinciding with his poor playoff performance). Sometimes current players are brought in to do some spots for ESPN, and Shane is definitely the type that would translate well to broadcasting.

Shane has stated that, when his current contract expires at the end of next season, he would consider retirement. He also cited his age then of 36 years.

36? That meets the Constituional requirement to be President. Go, Shane!

sagegrouse

[Billy Dat]

Shane has stated that, when his current contract expires at the end of next season, he would consider retirement. He also cited his age then of 36 years.

36? That meets the Constituional requirement to be President. Go, Shane!

sagegrouse

Yeah, I have to say that I never imagined Shane staying in basketball as either a coach, or a talking head. I say this because he has repeatedly said that while he loves the game, he is not very fond of the players in the league. But, as the end gets nearer, maybe he has a change of heart. I imagine most politicians make NBA players look humble.

I could certainly see him getting a front office gig and mind melding with the modern day sabermetricians.

[sagegrouse]

Yeah, I have to say that I never imagined Shane staying in basketball as either a coach, or a talking head. I say this because he has repeatedly said that while he loves the game, he is not very fond of the players in the league. But, as the end gets nearer, maybe he has a change of heart. I imagine most politicians make NBA players look humble.

I could certainly see him getting a front office gig and mind melding with the modern day sabermetricians.

Basketball offers too small a canvas for Shane to paint his masterpiece. I am expecting Shane to pursue a career in public service, although other more entrepreneurial directions would not surprise me.

sagegrouse
'Just what Shane needs -- an old guy telling him how he should lead the rest of his life'

[Indoor66]

'Just what Shane needs -- an old guy telling him how he should lead the rest of his life'

Yeah - and an old man who chases sage grouse around the prairie. LOL :cool:

[roywhite]

Basketball offers too small a canvas for Shane to paint his masterpiece. I am expecting Shane to pursue a career in public service, although other more entrepreneurial directions would not surprise me.

sagegrouse
'Just what Shane needs -- an old guy telling him how he should lead the rest of his life'

I agree, which makes at least two old guys giving Shane at least .02 worth of wisdom.

Maybe law school, pursue an MBA, or otherwise take courses that would further broaden his horizons and allow him to plan his next big thing.

He's an unusual guy; I'm convinced he can do great things.

[theAlaskanBear]

There is some talk about the Bulls looking at options for moving Deng...both Cleveland and the Wizards have been linked to this. I thought the chance was small, when it was just Cavs rumors, but I figure Chicago may be legitimately shopping him now with a second team interested.

Deng is a free agent next year, and I imagine the Bulls are looking at long term options. This draft has a lot of good SF types, and there is a huge FA class in 2014.

One other possibility is that there may be a big man free agent this year (Paul Millsap?) they want to go after?

CDu, bulls fans, Chicagolanders...anyone want to chime in? How likely is it that Deng is moved? What is the plan?

[dball]

Seth Davis has a column with scouts' opinions about various potential draftees. Not particularly flattering for Mason or Ryan.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130624/2013-nba-draft-prospects/#ixzz2XAL6YQXl

[toooskies]

There is some talk about the Bulls looking at options for moving Deng...both Cleveland and the Wizards have been linked to this. I thought the chance was small, when it was just Cavs rumors, but I figure Chicago may be legitimately shopping him now with a second team interested.

Deng is a free agent next year, and I imagine the Bulls are looking at long term options. This draft has a lot of good SF types, and there is a huge FA class in 2014.

One other possibility is that there may be a big man free agent this year (Paul Millsap?) they want to go after?

CDu, bulls fans, Chicagolanders...anyone want to chime in? How likely is it that Deng is moved? What is the plan?

I'm a Cleveland guy, but not a Chicago guy. I think it's fair to say Cleveland is probably asking all the teams with SFs on the last year of their contract about what they'd cost. I've heard rumors about Paul Pierce, Shawn Marion, now Deng. They probably asked about Danny Granger, too. They only want a one-year guy because they want cap space if Lebron opts out. (They're praying D-Wade's knees break down completely and Bosh continues down his path to irrelevance.)

Deng to me has the most value to the Cavs-- he's younger than the other guys, he isn't a huge injury concern (other than the ton of minutes he has played in Chicago), he went to the NBA early for the money (and thus wants to get paid) but did it for the right reasons, which means if the Cavs offer him a good contract when he's a FA he'll consider re-signing. Also, he's a pretty good player that gets them into playoff-level competitiveness. Pierce and Marion might just retire if they got traded to Cleveland.

I can see Chicago wanting to trade him so they can stay under the cap; if they don't want to amnesty Boozer, then Deng's contract is the worst on the team. Butler's emergence might make him expendable. Luol's a valuable guy, though, and I think Chicago would want something of value back that isn't draft picks. But the Cavs don't have an available piece that the Bulls want if they're trying to win a championship.

[BD80]

Seth Davis has a column with scouts' opinions about various potential draftees. Not particularly flattering for Mason or Ryan.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130624/2013-nba-draft-prospects/#ixzz2XAL6YQXl

But some funny comments as well:

Reggie Bullock, 6-7 guard, North Carolina: "... Just an OK athlete. OK defensively. ... He doesn't pass it much, ... We interviewed him, and he was not very good."

I guess no-show classes don't help much with interview skills.

[dukelifer]

Seth Davis has a column with scouts' opinions about various potential draftees. Not particularly flattering for Mason or Ryan.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130624/2013-nba-draft-prospects/#ixzz2XAL6YQXl

Not many positive things to say about anybody.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

Seth Davis has a column with scouts' opinions about various potential draftees. Not particularly flattering for Mason or Ryan.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130624/2013-nba-draft-prospects/#ixzz2XAL6YQXl


Well - What do you expect from Seth. It is in character.

[CDu]

Well - What do you expect from Seth. It is in character.

They aren't Davis's quotes. They are scouts' quotes.

[FerryFor50]

Not many positive things to say about anybody.

I liked how the scouts love Zeller and spin his lack of shooting with "if he learns how to shoot," yet Plumlee will never learn to shoot...

I see Plumlee and Zeller as comparable prospects.

[Des Esseintes]

I liked how the scouts love Zeller and spin his lack of shooting with "if he learns how to shoot," yet Plumlee will never learn to shoot...

I see Plumlee and Zeller as comparable prospects.

The difference in their respective ages is probably the culprit. Zeller is 20, while Mason is 23. It's not unreasonable to expect the guy with three years' less development to add more to his game going forward. Mason clearly has a great work ethic, and has added to his game every season. But if Zeller's work ethic is similar, which I'd be the first to admit I know nothing about, you'd pretty much have to bet on him as the better long-term prospect.

[luburch]

I liked how the scouts love Zeller and spin his lack of shooting with "if he learns how to shoot," yet Plumlee will never learn to shoot...

I see Plumlee and Zeller as comparable prospects.

I disagree. Plumlee is the better post player, but his outside game and footwork needs to develop badly. He almost gives off a robotish feel when he moves.

Zeller has thee ability to shoot, he just doesn't do it very often. Plus he has a nice handle for a big man and his movement on the perimeter is more fluid.

I'm not saying that Mason can't develop an outside game, because I believe he can. Zeller's is just further along at this point.

[FerryFor50]

I disagree. Plumlee is the better post player, but his outside game and footwork needs to develop badly. He almost gives off a robotish feel when he moves.

Zeller has thee ability to shoot, he just doesn't do it very often. Plus he has a nice handle for a big man and his movement on the perimeter is more fluid.

I'm not saying that Mason can't develop an outside game, because I believe he can. Zeller's is just further along at this point.

I guess my point was that Mason can develop a jumper with work, just like Zeller needs work to develop his jumper. Just seems silly for a scout to write off Mason when he outplayed/played evenly with several higher rated prospects on the list.

[Duvall]

Not many positive things to say about anybody.

Why would a scout say something positive about any player at this point?

[jipops]

Seth Davis has a column with scouts' opinions about various potential draftees. Not particularly flattering for Mason or Ryan.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130624/2013-nba-draft-prospects/#ixzz2XAL6YQXl

If this is a scout working for a team with a middle to late 1st round pick, why would he say anything positive about a kid projected in that range? This all looks like an agenda to me. Talk everyone down so nobody feels compelled to take the best pick for the team that employs you.

If Plumlee has no skill, then there is no way he would have made 1st team All-ACC and 2nd team All American. He certainly lacks many skills, but saying he has none is entirely inaccurate.

[johnb]

They aren't Davis's quotes. They are scouts' quotes.

Davis picks the quotes from many such comments. Using quotation marks is to, my mind, a sort of faux-objectivity. And it's doubly faux since what paid professional scout is going to be allowed to talk positively about the players that his team wants to draft later in the week?

I'd like to see what they said years ago:

Earvin Johnson: a bit too tall for the point guard position. Will need to play for a small market midwestern team (Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland) or he'll get overwhelmed. At the same time, he's a showboater--needs to be the best player on his team. Don't let him near other big shooters, since there's only one ball at a time. Has had it easy so far--will flop if he ever encounters adversity.

Akeem Olajuwon: a bit too short for the center position. Won't drink water during Ramadan day games (and he won't even mention it; ie, character issues). Played on an undisciplined college team--worried that he won't put forth effort at the professional level. Will probably want to add an H midway through his career, wasting valuable fonts.

John Stockton: a bit too pale for the point guard position. Mechanical. Played at a second-tier college. Worried that he won't mesh with any star player at the NBA level.

Grant Hill: a bit too soft--grew up too affluent. Strong college player with good hops for a Duke guy. Worried he won't rebound well from the physical pounding of the NBA. Would be better being a cast member on the Cosby show. Anticipate some good moments, but mark it down: he won't make it to his second contract.

Dirk Nowitski: a bit too Teutonic. Like most Europeans, unable to play a traditional inside position despite being 7 feet tall. A poor man's Uwe Blab. Destined to be a career back-up.

Steve Nash: Perhaps the best British Columbian in this year's draft. Perhaps the best Welsh point guard of the decade. Perhaps the best player from Santa Clara ever. Perhaps a first rounder? Are you kidding?

etc...

[Billy Dat]

Not many positive things to say about anybody.


Why would a scout say something positive about any player at this point?

I think these two quotes paint a pretty accurate picture. At this point in the process, scouts are either trying to talk themselves into a player or talk themselves out of a player. And, in nearly all cases, they are trying to put out bad info on players to hide their true intentions.

Still, though, as one reads all of the draft coverage, it's hard to find anyone raving about Mason, let alone Ryan or Seth. I think the original projections for him were right at the end of the lottery, which ends with pick #14. I feel like he may slip further down, but it's really tough to predict. Of course, ultimately, whether or not a guy was drafted in the correct spot is an analysis that can't be made for several years. I'd bet on Mason having a 5-10 year career. I guess it all comes down to whether or not he can get that second contract. I consider Cole Aldrich a big who I thought would have a better career, but he's in career limbo right now after 3 years having not found the right situation/proving that he belongs. Ditto Hasheem Thabeet, or Jordan Hill or Earl Clark. Will Mason be Sasha Kaun or Serge Ibaka? DeAndre Jordan or Anthony Randolph? "The right situation" is a moving target. Look at Aldrich - by all accounts OKC is a great organization from the players to the front office but he wasn't good enough to earn meaningful playing time. Now he's out in the polar opposite situation - Sacramento - but his minutes and therefore his production is up....maybe that's the right situation for him?

[Billy Dat]

Mason and Oladipo co-hosting a draft-night party in NYC. I guess they show up sometime after the first round is over.

http://instagram.com/p/a_riJRlPjd/#

[theAlaskanBear]

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25/source-bobcats-shopping-kidd-gilcrest-to-draft-otto-porter/

Why are they giving up on MKG so quickly? He is still 19 (younger than Porter) and had a solid NBA rookie season...Porter may well be a better player than MKG, but they have so many other issues...

Oh Jordan...

[CDu]

CDu, bulls fans, Chicagolanders...anyone want to chime in? How likely is it that Deng is moved? What is the plan?

I think there are a few things in play:
- The Bulls are notorious for their... umm... fiscal responsibility. This past year was their first ever paying the luxury tax. That they are well over the cap for the next two years probably doesn't sit well.
- The Bulls are unlikely to spend big next summer, mainly because they just don't have the cap space to go big. So perhaps they want to get something for Deng while they still can rather than hoping he takes a "hometown" discount. Note that today's rumor is that they are talking extension.

Ultimately, I suspect nothing happens. The cynic in me suspects that the Bulls are leaking these rumors to feign effort, but will ultimately do nothing and then let Deng walk next summer. This way they can say, "hey, we tried!"

[toooskies]

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25/source-bobcats-shopping-kidd-gilcrest-to-draft-otto-porter/

Why are they giving up on MKG so quickly? He is still 19 (younger than Porter) and had a solid NBA rookie season...Porter may well be a better player than MKG, but they have so many other issues...

Oh Jordan...

Trade rumors are sports-entertainment. They are to sports news what the WWE is to legitimate athletics. It can be entertaining if you ignore that it isn't real, despite hard, legitimate effort by the professional. Whether it presents an art form or outright deception is a matter of perspective.

Note: I very much enjoy both trade rumors and professional wrestling.

[tommy]

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25/source-bobcats-shopping-kidd-gilcrest-to-draft-otto-porter/

Why are they giving up on MKG so quickly? He is still 19 (younger than Porter) and had a solid NBA rookie season...Porter may well be a better player than MKG, but they have so many other issues...

Oh Jordan...

I am calling BS on this one. The idea that a team w this many holes would give up on such a young player, picked #2 in the draft, who had a solid rookie campaign, is kinda absurd on its face.

[brevity]

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25/source-bobcats-shopping-kidd-gilcrest-to-draft-otto-porter/

Why are they giving up on MKG so quickly? He is still 19 (younger than Porter) and had a solid NBA rookie season...Porter may well be a better player than MKG, but they have so many other issues...

Oh Jordan...


Trade rumors are sports-entertainment. They are to sports news what the WWE is to legitimate athletics. It can be entertaining if you ignore that it isn't real, despite hard, legitimate effort by the professional. Whether it presents an art form or outright deception is a matter of perspective.

Note: I very much enjoy both trade rumors and professional wrestling.


I am calling BS on this one. The idea that a team w this many holes would give up on such a young player, picked #2 in the draft, who had a solid rookie campaign, is kinda absurd on its face.

I love this article for its multiple levels of aggravation. The Bobcats assume Otto Porter will fall to them at #4? Check. They're willing to give MKG away? Check. Michael Jordan wants Harrison Barnes to join him in Charlotte so they can make a lot of Carolina babies and raise them the Carolina way and live happily ever after? Check. And it doesn't matter that Barnes and Porter play the same position? Not a bit. MKG won't be enough to give the Warriors, so maybe throw in Gerald Henderson to sweeten the offer? Okay, that wasn't in the article, but you can see where this is going.

[theAlaskanBear]

Trade rumors are sports-entertainment. They are to sports news what the WWE is to legitimate athletics. It can be entertaining if you ignore that it isn't real, despite hard, legitimate effort by the professional. Whether it presents an art form or outright deception is a matter of perspective.

Note: I very much enjoy both trade rumors and professional wrestling.

Oh I am well aware. I think its ridiculous myself, but can I pass up an attempt to make the Jordan Bobcats look incompetent? I apologize for my indulgence ;)

[Billy Dat]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/carter_williams_got_family_assist_FY6uHpnklQxzYL5R XkuZuN

"Zegarowski (MCW's tep father) said the defining moment for Carter-Williams came after his freshman season in high school, when he was getting looks from the Division III likes of Tufts and Wesleyan. He convinced Carter-Williams to attend the Nike Elite 100 camp.

Perky Plumlee, father of Duke’s Mason and Miles Plumlee, approached Zegarowski.

“He told me Michael was as good a player as he saw,’’ Zegarowski said. “He said he plays like a high school senior and that he should be going to Duke or Virginia. I said, ‘Wow, wait a second, Duke?’ He said he already made a few calls."

[UrinalCake]

So is there any chance at all that Seth gets drafted? Has he been invited to work out for any teams? I'm not expecting it but would love to be wrong.

[Billy Dat]

So is there any chance at all that Seth gets drafted? Has he been invited to work out for any teams? I'm not expecting it but would love to be wrong.

Anything is possible in the second round but I would be very surprised if that happened. He'll hook up with a team's Summer League squad and have to hope that he plays well enough to get a training camp invite. That's his likely path. Ryan may be on the same path, but I think he's got a better chance than Seth due to the fact that guys his height that can shoot 3s are all the rage right now.

[Billy Dat]

Classic photo of Shane, Ben McLemore and Anthony Bennett...assume Shane just met/interviewed them as he preps for his TV gig tomorrow night. These guys look more Palm Beach then Brooklyn. Paging Jesper Parnevik.....

https://twitter.com/heatherespn/status/349931168898117632/photo/1

[sagegrouse]

Classic photo of Shane, Ben McLemore and Anthony Bennett...assume Shane just met/interviewed them as he preps for his TV gig tomorrow night. These guys look more Palm Beach then Brooklyn. Paging Jesper Parnevik.....

https://twitter.com/heatherespn/status/349931168898117632/photo/1

Shane, on the other hand, is Duke-Blue-J. Crew.

sagegrouse

[yancem]

Anything is possible in the second round but I would be very surprised if that happened. He'll hook up with a team's Summer League squad and have to hope that he plays well enough to get a training camp invite. That's his likely path. Ryan may be on the same path, but I think he's got a better chance than Seth due to the fact that guys his height that can shoot 3s are all the rage right now.

I don't know, I think it is possible that some teams will take a flier on Seth in the second round just based on his pedigree. His father had a long nba career and his brother is an all star. I'm not saying that Seth is as good as either but he does share the one quality that made/make them great and that's excellent shooting. Second round picks are often a crap shoot which usually don't pan out, why not take a guys with a proven desired quality with a background like Seth. If he doesn't work out then oh well but if he does for another team, you missed out.

[Dev11]

There's always the idea of not wanting be to a second-round pick because you give yourself more options as far as picking a team. I believe there was a rumor that Conner Vernon did this and so was able to latch onto a team that had a need for a receiver. I'm really curious to see what shakes out for both Ryan and Seth. They should both get a shot at making a team.

[Billy Dat]

According to Chad Ford (multiple places - podcast and some of his content behind the pay wall), there is a cluster of Non-US players that are pushing everyone below the lottery down a handful of pegs. Those guys include:

Sergey Karasev - Russia - 6'7" shooting guard
Lucas Nogueira - Brazil - 6-11 - Center
Dennis Schroeder - Germany - 6-2 - PG (Rondo is the style comp)
Giannis Antetokounmpo - Greece - 6-9 - SF

As often happens, Mason's age is being used against him, with the logic being - he's a 23 year old man competing against 18-20 year olds, his success was not a surprise!

[theAlaskanBear]

According to Chad Ford (multiple places - podcast and some of his content behind the pay wall), there is a cluster of Non-US players that are pushing everyone below the lottery down a handful of pegs. Those guys include:

Sergey Karasev - Russia - 6'7" shooting guard
Lucas Nogueira - Brazil - 6-11 - Center
Dennis Schroeder - Germany - 6-2 - PG (Rondo is the style comp)
Giannis Antetokounmpo - Greece - 6-9 - SF

As often happens, Mason's age is being used against him, with the logic being - he's a 23 year old man competing against 18-20 year olds, his success was not a surprise!

I scouted all of these guys for the Cavs in the mock draft. They have so many picks, if they don't trade they will need to stash a player or two over in Europe. Every last one of them needs work on their shooting, and I can't imagine any playing in the NBA next year. I think they spend 1-2 years. Nogueira is very mobile and long, but little offensive game, and although he is a good shot blocker, is not a great 1v1 defender. Schroeder gets compared to Rubio/Rondo. Giannis is a well rounded player, who runs the offense for his team, but again, needs strength and a jumpshot. Giannis is supposed to switch to the Spanish league (a clear step up in competition) this coming season. Based on my gut, I would say Schroeder will have the biggest impact in the NBA.

Honestly, I think Rudy Gobert seems like a better risk than Noguiera, with whom I wasn't so impressed. Gobert could have an immediate defensive impact in the NBA, and has a very solid pick and role game.

[tommy]

Interesting article that I'll link here (http://247sports.com/Article/NBA-Draft-hopefuls-as-high-school-prospects-136864)by Jerry Meyer of 247 Sports, looking at how the projected top picks in this year's draft were evaluated as recruits coming into college. While sure, some guys simply improved a lot during college, what is interesting to me is how poor the evaluations were of these point guards as they were coming out of high school and into college:

Trey Burke: composite rating was 93
CJ McCollum: unranked
Shane Larkin: ranked 117
Michael Carter-Williams: ranked 26
Isiah Canaan: unranked
Lorenzo Brown: ranked 56

He has those as the top 6 PG's in the draft, and basically Carter-Williams was the only one projected to be anything close to a star in college. Kind of a cautionary tale as to how seriously to take rankings. Yes, a high ranking usually means the kid is going to be a player. But a low one, or a nonexistent one, doesn't mean he won't be. For some reason, at least this year, especially among point guards.

Other interesting HS rankings among these projected draftees:

Ben McLemore: 39
Victor Oladipo: unranked
Allen Crabbe: 71
Jamaal Franklin: unranked

[Indoor66]

Interesting article that I'll link here (http://247sports.com/Article/NBA-Draft-hopefuls-as-high-school-prospects-136864)by Jerry Meyer of 247 Sports, looking at how the projected top picks in this year's draft were evaluated as recruits coming into college. While sure, some guys simply improved a lot during college, what is interesting to me is how poor the evaluations were of these point guards as they were coming out of high school and into college:

Trey Burke: composite rating was 93
CJ McCollum: unranked
Shane Larkin: ranked 117
Michael Carter-Williams: ranked 26
Isiah Canaan: unranked
Lorenzo Brown: ranked 56

He has those as the top 6 PG's in the draft, and basically Carter-Williams was the only one projected to be anything close to a star in college. Kind of a cautionary tale as to how seriously to take rankings. Yes, a high ranking usually means the kid is going to be a player. But a low one, or a nonexistent one, doesn't mean he won't be. For some reason, at least this year, especially among point guards.

Other interesting HS rankings among these projected draftees:

Ben McLemore: 39
Victor Oladipo: unranked
Allen Crabbe: 71
Jamaal Franklin: unranked

Gee, you mean the prognostications are not accurate? Who'da thunk.

[Henderson]

I don't know about y'all, but I'm staying close to the phone tonight. I do the same thing when a new Pope is being chosen. I figure the chances of my being chosen are slimmish, but the benefits are too great to be overlooked. And wouldn't you feel silly hearing a voicemail the day after saying, "We were going to pick you, but since you aren't picking up, we're going with the other guy"?

What I can't decide is whether I'd rather be Pope or the Cav's No. 1 pick. I like Italy, but hanging out with Kyrie would be fun too.

Wish me luck tonight.

[tux]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but...

I feel the need to say that I really really really think Alex Len is going to be a bust.

He was never dominant at MD and I think it's much more likely that he becomes one of those big guys that end up mostly watching about 8 years worth of NBA games from the bench.

If I were drafting tonight in the high lottery, I'd pick the best athlete available and call it a night.

Oladipo
Zeller
McLemore
Noel
Bennett

maybe Porter


I'd avoid Len.