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View Full Version : John Williams: A "Best Of" Bracket!



Lord Ash
04-11-2013, 08:33 PM
Hey all!

Okay, I know that basketball is over... but bracket's don't need to be!

Here is a bracket I put together of the music from John Williams... the greatest sound track composer of all time! 16 of his best pieces, all against each other in a fight to the death... and each with a youtube link so you can listen!

Round One is active right now... Round Two comes on the 13th, with a round each day after that. So... please come by and play!

The John Williams Best Theme Songs Bracket! (http://public.bracketeers.com/matchup.php?id=2062)

JBDuke
04-11-2013, 10:40 PM
Too bad the best pieces from "Superman", "Close Encounters", "Star Wars", and other weren't used.

Olympic Fan
04-12-2013, 02:13 AM
Hey all!

Okay, I know that basketball is over... but bracket's don't need to be!

Here is a bracket I put together of the music from John Williams... the greatest sound track composer of all time! 16 of his best pieces, all against each other in a fight to the death... and each with a youtube link so you can listen!

Round One is active right now... Round Two comes on the 13th, with a round each day after that. So... please come by and play!

The John Williams Best Theme Songs Bracket! (http://public.bracketeers.com/matchup.php?id=2062)

Nice list, but us John Williams really the best of all time?

I mean he excels at a certain bombastic style, but is he really in a class with Max Steiner (Gone with the Wind; Casablanca; King Kong) or Erich Wolfgang Korngold (The Adventures of Robin Hood)?

The greatest composer who composed for the screen was probably Maurice Jarre (Dr. Zhivago, Ghost, Lawrence of Arabia; The Longest Day and the incredible score for Is Paris Burning?) ... personally, I'm partial to Elmer Bernstein (The Magnificent Seven, To Kill a Mockingbird, Animal House) and Jerry Goldsmith (Rudy, Alien, much of the Star Trek stuff and my all-time favorite score, Hoosiers).

But I think the top prize might go to Bernard Herrmann -- who started with Citizen Kane and ended with Taxi Driver. In between, he composed the music for most of Hitchcock's greatest films.

Don't get me wrong. I think John Williams is great -- his Star Wars theme is classic, his Jurrassic Park stuff is almost as good and any guy who made his chops writing the music for Gilligan's Island deserves props.

Williams was great ... but hardly the greatest.

Lord Ash
04-12-2013, 07:30 AM
Too bad the best pieces from "Superman", "Close Encounters", "Star Wars", and other weren't used.

How can you make a post like that and not illuminate the rest of us? What piece from Star Wars is better than the three I listed? You'll have a VERY hard time winning that argument I think, in the case of the Imperial March and the main theme... Likewise, there isn't anything quite as big as the Superman theme (I actually considered the March of the Villain but in the end it simply doesn't stack up) Although I would be happy to hear an argument for something else. Close Encounters is more up in the air... I went with that one because of the insane restrictions placed on it (5 notes!)

But would like to hear your picks!

As for Williams not being the best, maybe he isn't... I don't know anything about music or soundtracks:). But I think he would obviously have to be right near the top of the list, given his accomplishments, awards, and the sheer recognizability factor:)

JBDuke
04-12-2013, 10:52 AM
How can you make a post like that and not illuminate the rest of us? What piece from Star Wars is better than the three I listed? You'll have a VERY hard time winning that argument I think, in the case of the Imperial March and the main theme... Likewise, there isn't anything quite as big as the Superman theme (I actually considered the March of the Villain but in the end it simply doesn't stack up) Although I would be happy to hear an argument for something else. Close Encounters is more up in the air... I went with that one because of the insane restrictions placed on it (5 notes!)

But would like to hear your picks!

As for Williams not being the best, maybe he isn't... I don't know anything about music or soundtracks:). But I think he would obviously have to be right near the top of the list, given his accomplishments, awards, and the sheer recognizability factor:)

I'm probably not as high on Williams as you are, but not as down on him as Olympic Fan. I would place him squarely among the greatest of all time, and he's certainly got a couple of scores that would be among the best individual scores as well. I'd agree that Jarre and Herrmann are right there as well. I'd put Goldsmith down a notch from that trio, on par with Bill Conti, John Barry, Howard Shore, Ennio Morricone, James Horner, and Korngold. I'm probably missing some folks...

Anyway, Williams has certainly produced some brilliant scores. I think "Star Wars" is certainly at the top of the list, but I'd put "Superman" right there with it. "Close Encounters", "E.T.", and many others are just great scores as well, and then there are many brilliant bits, like the "Jaws" theme.

And as for picking individual tracks off of Williams's soundtracks, you certainly got some of his "big" numbers (what Oly referred to as "a certain bombastic style"), but I like many of his smaller numbers. For example, I think his best piece off the "Superman" soundtrack is "Love Theme from Superman". The solo oboe theme, later followed by the cellos, and then the violins backed by the full orchestra, always stirs something deep within me. I also really like most of the "Leaving Home" track. When the film moves out of the Kent's barn and into the wheat fields with Martha and Clark, the sweeping strings are just gorgeous. I also really like the second half of "The Fortress of Solitude" with the tinkling charms, low strings, and then the return to Superman's theme at the end. (I do love that trumpet...) Certainly the "bombastic" pieces from "Superman" are also excellent - the Main Title, most of the stuff on Krypton, and the End Titles. Really, the whole album is amazing.

For "Star Wars", it's another collection of amazing tracks. Yes, the iconic "Main Title" is spectacular. I may like "The Throne Room and End Title" even better, as bombast goes. But my favorite track is "Princess Leia's Theme" - a much smaller number. The solo flute to start, a quick bit of oboe, followed by the solo horn (I think) picking up Leia's Theme. Then the flute is back playing Leia's theme, then on to the strings, swelling and soaring. And then wrapping it up with that solo violin expression of the theme. How long does he hold that last painfully-high note? Wow, that's good stuff. Interestingly, Luke's theme doesn't really have a signature track on the recordings. It shows up all through the movie, of course, perhaps most poignantly near the end of "The Desert and the Robot Auction". (I love the solo horn here.)

I think the best version of Darth Vader's theme comes in "The Imperial March", which opens "The Empire Strikes Back". (Really, given the common themes for the characters that run through the entire six films, you almost have to all them one piece of work, although it's a real opus.) You included "Yoda's Theme", which is certainly a great track, but I think Yoda's theme is best expressed in the second half of the "Yoda and the Force" track. This is used in the film during the scene when Luke tries to use the Force to pull his X-wing out of the swamp and fails. Then, Yoda gives a bit of a soliloquy on the Force and succeeds in pulling the X-wing out. The use of Yoda's theme as the X-wing rises from the water and soars overhead, overlaid with the flute trilling in the background, is just wonderful. As for the rest of "Empire", perhaps my favorite bit of bombast here is the "Finale" track. The first part is really excellent, and then it moves into the end title sequence, which I think is the best title track of the whole series.

And regarding "Close Encounters", you're exactly right in that the five-note theme is perhaps the most iconic five notes in soundtrack history. But I think that theme is best expressed in the closing/end title sequence, which also includes all the other themes from the film, including "When You Wish Upon a Star". One of Williams's best tracks, IMO. I only have the LP version of this - haven't picked up the CD version yet - which means I haven't listened to it as recently, so it's not as fresh in my mind.

Wander
04-12-2013, 10:57 AM
What piece from Star Wars is better than the three I listed?

Duel of the fates!

NashvilleDevil
04-12-2013, 12:13 PM
personally, I'm partial to Elmer Bernstein (The Magnificent Seven, To Kill a Mockingbird, Animal House) and Jerry Goldsmith (Rudy, Alien, much of the Star Trek stuff and my all-time favorite score, Hoosiers).



You left off The Great Escape, Ghostbusters and The Ten Commandments for Bernstein. You left off Patton for Jerry Goldsmith. I am with you on these two and I also like Morricone and I think Hans Zimmer's collorborations with Christopher Nolan have produced some great pieces.

JBDuke
04-12-2013, 05:17 PM
You left off The Great Escape, Ghostbusters and The Ten Commandments for Bernstein. You left off Patton for Jerry Goldsmith. I am with you on these two and I also like Morricone and I think Hans Zimmer's collorborations with Christopher Nolan have produced some great pieces.

Good call on "Patton". The opening with those trumpets followed by the piccolo (or is it a flute?) is so distinctive.

Tom B.
04-12-2013, 05:42 PM
Trivia question: Which John Williams piece was used as the musical track for a Duke basketball player's senior highlight video at the annual team banquet, and which player's video was it used for?

Lord Ash
04-12-2013, 06:49 PM
Good call on "Patton". The opening with those trumpets followed by the piccolo (or is it a flute?) is so distinctive.

A buddy and I use that tune every time something amazing happens, just replacing the instruments with the name of whatever is happening. GREAT call. Maybe we need a "distinctive movie themes" thread!:)

(Okay, I guess this is that thread sort of:) )

Faustus
04-12-2013, 10:01 PM
I wouldn't claim he belonged in quite the same level as those mentioned, but Thomas Newman (I think he's Randy Newman's nephew?) has composed some very nice film scores. His tend to stay a bit more in the background, but are still fine things. There's a David Newman too, I think a cousin perhaps and actually is Randy's son? Also has some good film compositions (either David or Thomas did Shawshank Redemption) but I suspect you guys know more about this than I do anyway. Carry on...

DU82
04-14-2013, 07:53 PM
Trivia question: Which John Williams piece was used as the musical track for a Duke basketball player's senior highlight video at the annual team banquet, and which player's video was it used for?

Danny Ferry, Superman.

Mrs. K asked after one game what song it was (the band played it a few times); obviously she liked the theme (both the music and the fitting title) then used it for his video.

Lord Ash
04-15-2013, 10:10 AM
I'm probably not as high on Williams as you are, but not as down on him as Olympic Fan. I would place him squarely among the greatest of all time, and he's certainly got a couple of scores that would be among the best individual scores as well. I'd agree that Jarre and Herrmann are right there as well. I'd put Goldsmith down a notch from that trio, on par with Bill Conti, John Barry, Howard Shore, Ennio Morricone, James Horner, and Korngold. I'm probably missing some folks...

Anyway, Williams has certainly produced some brilliant scores. I think "Star Wars" is certainly at the top of the list, but I'd put "Superman" right there with it. "Close Encounters", "E.T.", and many others are just great scores as well, and then there are many brilliant bits, like the "Jaws" theme.

And as for picking individual tracks off of Williams's soundtracks, you certainly got some of his "big" numbers (what Oly referred to as "a certain bombastic style"), but I like many of his smaller numbers. For example, I think his best piece off the "Superman" soundtrack is "Love Theme from Superman". The solo oboe theme, later followed by the cellos, and then the violins backed by the full orchestra, always stirs something deep within me. I also really like most of the "Leaving Home" track. When the film moves out of the Kent's barn and into the wheat fields with Martha and Clark, the sweeping strings are just gorgeous. I also really like the second half of "The Fortress of Solitude" with the tinkling charms, low strings, and then the return to Superman's theme at the end. (I do love that trumpet...) Certainly the "bombastic" pieces from "Superman" are also excellent - the Main Title, most of the stuff on Krypton, and the End Titles. Really, the whole album is amazing.

For "Star Wars", it's another collection of amazing tracks. Yes, the iconic "Main Title" is spectacular. I may like "The Throne Room and End Title" even better, as bombast goes. But my favorite track is "Princess Leia's Theme" - a much smaller number. The solo flute to start, a quick bit of oboe, followed by the solo horn (I think) picking up Leia's Theme. Then the flute is back playing Leia's theme, then on to the strings, swelling and soaring. And then wrapping it up with that solo violin expression of the theme. How long does he hold that last painfully-high note? Wow, that's good stuff. Interestingly, Luke's theme doesn't really have a signature track on the recordings. It shows up all through the movie, of course, perhaps most poignantly near the end of "The Desert and the Robot Auction". (I love the solo horn here.)

I think the best version of Darth Vader's theme comes in "The Imperial March", which opens "The Empire Strikes Back". (Really, given the common themes for the characters that run through the entire six films, you almost have to all them one piece of work, although it's a real opus.) You included "Yoda's Theme", which is certainly a great track, but I think Yoda's theme is best expressed in the second half of the "Yoda and the Force" track. This is used in the film during the scene when Luke tries to use the Force to pull his X-wing out of the swamp and fails. Then, Yoda gives a bit of a soliloquy on the Force and succeeds in pulling the X-wing out. The use of Yoda's theme as the X-wing rises from the water and soars overhead, overlaid with the flute trilling in the background, is just wonderful. As for the rest of "Empire", perhaps my favorite bit of bombast here is the "Finale" track. The first part is really excellent, and then it moves into the end title sequence, which I think is the best title track of the whole series.

And regarding "Close Encounters", you're exactly right in that the five-note theme is perhaps the most iconic five notes in soundtrack history. But I think that theme is best expressed in the closing/end title sequence, which also includes all the other themes from the film, including "When You Wish Upon a Star". One of Williams's best tracks, IMO. I only have the LP version of this - haven't picked up the CD version yet - which means I haven't listened to it as recently, so it's not as fresh in my mind.

Not sure what I like best about this post... the actual insight, or the excuse to go listen to more music!:) And holy cow you know your tunes:)

I do agree that some of his "quiet" stuff is fantastic... the "Force theme" (I think that is the title?) is great, as are Luke and Leia's themes... I also was near to using "The Asteroid Fight" (again, I might be off on the title...) which is a great mix of different bits. I was a little limited in what I could pick, as I wanted to hit multiple movies. Hey, at least we can agree that The Imperial March makes you want to march around the house strangling incompetent admirals and telling people that you hope they will redouble their efforts... for THEIR sakes.

I adore the Superman soundtrack. In fact, I voted for that over the Star Wars theme. I don't know it as well as I should, maybe:( Same with Close Encounters... I was considering the closing, but I just didn't know it well enough to put it in over the encounter with the aliens bit:(

Great stuff. Loved going back to listen to some of those.

Oh, and today is the last round of voting... and the Indiana Jones is beating out Star Wars!

Dukeface88
04-15-2013, 02:13 PM
You left off The Great Escape, Ghostbusters and The Ten Commandments for Bernstein. You left off Patton for Jerry Goldsmith. I am with you on these two and I also like Morricone and I think Hans Zimmer's collorborations with Christopher Nolan have produced some great pieces.

As far as Goldsmith goes, I'm rather partial to 13th Warrior.




The greatest composer who composed for the screen was probably Maurice Jarre (Dr. Zhivago, Ghost, Lawrence of Arabia; The Longest Day and the incredible score for Is Paris Burning?) ... personally, I'm partial to Elmer Bernstein (The Magnificent Seven, To Kill a Mockingbird, Animal House) and Jerry Goldsmith (Rudy, Alien, much of the Star Trek stuff and my all-time favorite score, Hoosiers).



You know, I really need to rewatch the Longest Day. I wonder where my tape is...

Lord Ash
04-15-2013, 10:10 PM
My mother was taken on a first date when she was young to the movies. The film was "The Longest Day". Not surprisingly, there was no second date... although maybe the first was long enough to count as two?

rsvman
04-17-2013, 11:42 AM
I wouldn't claim he belonged in quite the same level as those mentioned, but Thomas Newman (I think he's Randy Newman's nephew?) has composed some very nice film scores. His tend to stay a bit more in the background, but are still fine things. There's a David Newman too, I think a cousin perhaps and actually is Randy's son? Also has some good film compositions (either David or Thomas did Shawshank Redemption) but I suspect you guys know more about this than I do anyway. Carry on...

All of the movie-score-writing Newman's are enormously talented. Even Randy Newman has done some fine scores; Avalon and Awakenings are both really nice.

I think Thomas Newman holds his own against anybody.

CameronBornAndBred
04-17-2013, 12:39 PM
Williams was great ... but hardly the greatest.
He's not dead yet. And he's still composing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Williams

throatybeard
04-17-2013, 08:22 PM
Nice list, but us John Williams really the best of all time?

I mean he excels at a certain bombastic style, but is he really in a class with Max Steiner (Gone with the Wind; Casablanca; King Kong) or Erich Wolfgang Korngold (The Adventures of Robin Hood)?

The greatest composer who composed for the screen was probably Maurice Jarre (Dr. Zhivago, Ghost, Lawrence of Arabia; The Longest Day and the incredible score for Is Paris Burning?) ... personally, I'm partial to Elmer Bernstein (The Magnificent Seven, To Kill a Mockingbird, Animal House) and Jerry Goldsmith (Rudy, Alien, much of the Star Trek stuff and my all-time favorite score, Hoosiers).

But I think the top prize might go to Bernard Herrmann -- who started with Citizen Kane and ended with Taxi Driver. In between, he composed the music for most of Hitchcock's greatest films.

Don't get me wrong. I think John Williams is great -- his Star Wars theme is classic, his Jurrassic Park stuff is almost as good and any guy who made his chops writing the music for Gilligan's Island deserves props.

Williams was great ... but hardly the greatest.

All of the above, plus Ennio Morricone.

dball
04-18-2013, 06:16 PM
All of the movie-score-writing Newman's are enormously talented. Even Randy Newman has done some fine scores; Avalon and Awakenings are both really nice.

I think Thomas Newman holds his own against anybody.

"even Randy Newman" :)

No love for Toy Story (1, 2, 3)

Randy gets inducted into the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame today

JBDuke
04-18-2013, 09:35 PM
"even Randy Newman" :)

No love for Toy Story (1, 2, 3)

Randy gets inducted into the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame today

Actually, "The Natural" is my favorite Randy Newman score.

rasputin
04-23-2013, 06:30 PM
All of the above, plus Ennio Morricone.

Throaty, have I mentioned to you the recording of Yo-Yo Ma performing Morricone's work?

I'd loan you mine but I'd never get it back . . .:cool:

JBDuke
04-23-2013, 08:28 PM
Throaty, have I mentioned to you the recording of Yo-Yo Ma performing Morricone's work?

I'd loan you mine but I'd never get it back . . .:cool:

YouTube has a recording of the first two tracks off this CD - both from The Mission, which is an amazing soundtrack. Apparently, Morricone created new orchestrations to feature the solo cello for Yo-Yo Ma. These tracks are stunning. Not sure I like them quite as much as the original, but the cello, especially in Yo-Yo Ma's hands, is such a beautiful instrument.

Amazon says they still have 11 copies in stock. I may have to order me one of those...