Duke Football 2014 Recruiting Thread

[Greg_Newton]

We had one of these for 2013, and we're off to a nice start (3 very nice OL signings in the last two weeks), so I thought it might be a good time of year to get this going. So far - with Rivals rating and other offers to this point:

6'4 210 OLB Zavier Carmichael (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Zavier-Carmichael-121279) - 5.5 3-star - Vanderbilt

6'5 295 OT Trip McNeil (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Trip-McNeill-142928) - 5.6 3-star - UNC, UVA, NSCU, WFU, ECU, close to one from Clemson.

6'6 260 OT Kameron Schroeder (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Kameron-Schroeder-136831) - 5.5 3-star - Nevado, Hawaii, Harvard, Idaho

6'6 320 (!) OG Jake Sanders (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Jake-Sanders-139314) - 5.5 3-star - Kansas State, Cincinatti, Cal, Miss. St., ECU, UCF, was in communication with FSU, Bama, etc.

Sanders and McNeil look like big-time studs, and Schroeder supposedly has a fair amount of Pac-12 interest despite a relatively unimpressive offer list thus far. Carmichael was a very early commit (a year or so ago), and would likely have a better offer list otherwise.

Great start to the class - 2013 was about halfway split between 2/3-stars, so beating out SEC, ACC, Big 12, Pac-12, etc. for four 3-stars to start things off is a very encouraging sign.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Thanks for starting this list. You said "signings", but aren't these just verbals? Signing Day is a long ways off! :cool:

[jv001]

Good start, but we need some defensive lineman to get to the next level. GoDuke!

[Greg_Newton]

Thanks for starting this list. You said "signings", but aren't these just verbals? Signing Day is a long ways off! :cool:

Yup, my bad.

As for DL, we don't have room for too many - our roster is packed with them already. A lot of them are still young though, so hopefully we'll see improvement in the ones we already have.

[Bob Green]

Alonzo Saxton, a 5'11" cornerback out of Ohio has verballed to Duke. He has multiple BCS offers including Wisconsin and West Virginia. Recruiting is picking up momentum.

[jafarr1]

As for DL, we don't have room for too many - our roster is packed with them already. A lot of them are still young though, so hopefully we'll see improvement in the ones we already have.

Our roster is packed with them, but a whole lot of them are juniors and seniors. Best to land a couple to get them a red-shirt year before they need to contribute.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Alonzo Saxton, a 5'11" cornerback out of Ohio has verballed to Duke. He has multiple BCS offers including Wisconsin and West Virginia. Recruiting is picking up momentum.
We're seeing improvement in which schools we're competing with for recruits as well. :cool:

[-bdbd]

Alonzo Saxton, a 5'11" cornerback out of Ohio has verballed to Duke. He has multiple BCS offers including Wisconsin and West Virginia. Recruiting is picking up momentum.

Wow - this kid had a lot of D1 offers, including 5 from the Big10 already (IL, IN, NW, Purdue, Wisc.), plus UK, Cincy, Navy, WV, and interest from OSU and Michigan. Not bad company to be keeping Duke!
FYI - Alonzo Saxton is listed by Scout as the 39th best CB in the 2014 HS class follows:
Ht: 5-11 Wt: 175 40: 4.58
Position: CB
Year: Class of 2014
High School: Bishop Hartley HS
(Columbus, OH)

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=8&c=1&nid=5424429

No doubt that this class, so far, is looking clearly "above-average" for Duke FB. Due to the current numbers on scholarship and limited departures expected after next season, this will be a smaller-than-normal class -- could be as few as about a dozen, though realistically there should be a few other departures for various reasons.

I'd expect at least two DL's and probably 2-3 more defensive backfield types -- those are perceived as maybe the two biggest areas of need for this class to fill. Though we do seem to be on the list for some big-time RB's, QB's (Cut seems to sign at least one QB a year), TE's, and WR's. May not be done at OL either - a spot quickly turning into an area of real strength for Duke.

[Bob Green]

Tinashe Bere the #29 ranked MLB in the nation has verbally committed to Duke. He is a 3-Star from Cincinnati who also had offers from Indiana, Illinois, Iowa and Purdue.

[chrishoke]

Awesome! This class is really shaping up nicely and filling areas of need.

[jimsumner]

Now, if Duke could just get a couple of stud DT's.

[jafarr1]

Saxton just won defensive MVP of a Rivals combine. That's especially notable because he beat out three four-star DB recruits to win the award, and it wasn't because the four-stars had an off day.

[roywhite]

We're seeing improvement in which schools we're competing with for recruits as well. :cool:


Wow - this kid had a lot of D1 offers, including 5 from the Big10 already (IL, IN, NW, Purdue, Wisc.), plus UK, Cincy, Navy, WV, and interest from OSU and Michigan. Not bad company to be keeping Duke!

No doubt that this class, so far, is looking clearly "above-average" for Duke FB.


Awesome! This class is really shaping up nicely and filling areas of need.

Seems like Coach Cut's continuous improvement and now having a recent bowl trip has given FB recruiting a boost. Good stuff.

[roywhite]

Alonzo Saxton is Duke's 5th commit

Nice piece from Blue Devil Lair on this recent DB commit.

Seems like just the type of player and young man Coach Cut is looking for to continue to build.

[DukeSean]

The quality of commits seems to be trending upwards, and we are now beating out some other quality BCS teams for talent that before we'd have to find under the radar.

I've read some of the interviews from the commits and more than one has mentioned Duke's up-and-coming status and getting to the Belk Bowl as big factors in their decisions.

Would be great to get another quality DB or two.

[Bob Green]

Football recruiting is on a roll today with three verbal committments:

C Zach Harmon (Toledo, OH)
WR Chris Taylor (Coconut Creek, FL)
RB Kerrion Moore (Gastonia, NC)

[loran16]

Football recruiting is on a roll today with three verbal committments:

C Zach Harmon (Toledo, OH)
WR Chris Taylor (Coconut Creek, FL)
RB Kerrion Moore (Gastonia, NC)

All three unranked by the services. :-/ Was hoping we were starting a trend.

[roywhite]

All three unranked by the services. :-/ Was hoping we were starting a trend.

Chris Taylor, the WR from Florida, is ranked 3-stars by 247 Sports.

247 Sports is growing, looking to provide info for hungry recruit-niks and compete with Scout and Rivals. 247 Sports recently hooked up with CBS Sports to be their provider of recruiting news.

[Merlindevildog91]

All three unranked by the services. :-/ Was hoping we were starting a trend.

Per Twitter and Adam Rowe, Harmon will be a 247 Sports 3 star when rankings come out.

[loran16]

Chris Taylor, the WR from Florida, is ranked 3-stars by 247 Sports.

247 Sports is growing, looking to provide info for hungry recruit-niks and compete with Scout and Rivals. 247 Sports recently hooked up with CBS Sports to be their provider of recruiting news.

Let me rephrase then, all three are not even close to consensus 3 stars - which is generally the lowest ranking in which prospects get rankings.

They could wind up as studs, but that's not really a sign of improved recruiting.

[Bob Green]

Loran,

I've found a glass half full attitude helps me make it through the stresses of recruiting. When the old positive approach starts to teeter a bit, a bottle of wine shores things up nicely. :cool:

[OldPhiKap]

Loran,

I've found a glass half full attitude helps me make it through the stresses of recruiting. When the old positive approach starts to teeter a bit, a bottle of wine shores things up nicely. :cool:

Some say the glass is half full.
Some say the glass is half empty.
I say "bartender, keep pouring"

[-bdbd]

Football recruiting is on a roll today with three verbal committments:

C Zach Harmon (Toledo, OH)
WR Chris Taylor (Coconut Creek, FL)
RB Kerrion Moore (Gastonia, NC)

Recognize that these were early offers. So some of these guys were likely going to (later, may still) get higher D1 offers. But that said, they don't, as a group, have as many stars are the prior commits to this class. This is of particular interest b/c this will be such a small class - could be as small as 13 or so, depending on whether some current guys leave before using up all of their eligibility. To be fair, scouts can be lazy too, so just like committing to Duke BB can cause a recruit's ratings to rise, committing to Duke FB can have the opposite effect. Trust in the staff's evaluation abilities.

Some links:

Harmon:
6'4" interior lineman, apparently with some 'nasty' in his attitude... with offers from Akron, Ball State, W. Mich., Toledo, Marshall, Ohio (and being recruited by several Big 10 schools).
http://duke.scout.com/2/1291574.html
http://www.hudl.com/athlete/489436/#highlights/29180429
==============
Taylor:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nhsMbaqybQ&t=1m48s
Offers from Duke, App State, E. Mich., W. Mich., Fordham, Yale, Tulane, Toledo, Holy Cross.
Potentially breakaway speed.

Chris Smith ‏ @ ChrisSmithVP2h
Will have a commitment article on new # Dukecommit Chris Taylor out in just a little while. Like this prospect a lot!! # Duke got a steal # VP

http://247sports.com/Player/Chris-Taylor-27488
==============

Moore:
In-state RB and DB, has rushed for over 1,000 yards, being recruited by Clemson and App State.
http://duke.scout.com/2/1291582.html

http://www.maxpreps.com/athletes/01tLUmV6X02HfeX8V uJqZA/football-fall-12/stats-kerrion-moore.htm
247sports shows his junior year stats at 970 rushing yards and 13 TDs, 13 receptions for 383 yards and 4 TDs, 33 tackles, 4 interceptions and 3 KR touchdowns.

[-bdbd]

Also of note, Duke just received a commitment from a preferred walk-on QB in Kane Banner of St Pauls. UNC, among others in the ACC, was also pursuing with a similar offer:

http://www.robesonian.com/view/full_story/22548656/article-STAYING-IN-BLUE--St--Pauls-QB-Kane-Banner-heading-to-Duke

[Bob Green]

...Duke just received a commitment from a preferred walk-on QB in Kane Banner of St Pauls.

I've heard those Robeson County boys are pretty tough...what says Jim Sumner?

[Bob Green]

Kerrion Moore is described as a kick return specialist and a lockdown cornerback:

http://www.gastongazette.com/sports/high-school/prep-notebook-di-offer-for-local-football-star-1.96861

[uh_no]

Kerrion Moore is described as a kick return specialist and a lockdown cornerback:

http://www.gastongazette.com/sports/high-school/prep-notebook-di-offer-for-local-football-star-1.96861

yes please!

[johnb]

Also of note, Duke just received a commitment from a preferred walk-on QB in Kane Banner of St Pauls. UNC, among others in the ACC, was also pursuing with a similar offer:

http://www.robesonian.com/view/full_story/22548656/article-STAYING-IN-BLUE--St--Pauls-QB-Kane-Banner-heading-to-Duke

This is a very nice story. It's easy to get caught up in the recruiting rankings, etc, but it's important to recognize the many good guys/gals who come to Duke to go to school and also just happen to be a good enough athlete to compete at a high level.

[loran16]

Loran,

I've found a glass half full attitude helps me make it through the stresses of recruiting. When the old positive approach starts to teeter a bit, a bottle of wine shores things up nicely. :cool:

I thought it was well known my nickname was "optimism?"

We shall see.

I'd just like our recruiting class to be in the middle tier of the ACC this year, rather than at the bottom (but not the very bottom last year because BC sucked)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I thought it was well known my nickname was "optimism?"


Really? Perhaps "Paradigm of Optimism, Jr." :cool:

[Bob Green]

FWIW (probably not much), 247 Sports ranks Duke's 2014 class at #22:

http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Florida State, Louisville, Miami and Virginia Tech are ranked higher but we are currently ahead of BC, North Carolina, Clemson, Virginia.......

Wake Forest is bringing up the rear at #87.

[OldPhiKap]

FWIW (probably not much), 247 Sports ranks Duke's 2014 class at #22:

http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Florida State, Louisville, Miami and Virginia Tech are ranked higher but we are currently ahead of BC, North Carolina, Clemson, Virginia.......

Wake Forest is bringing up the rear at #87.

Duke ranked in any top 25, at any time, is a step in the right direction!

[Duke of Nashville]

Duke ranked in any top 25, at any time, is a step in the right direction!

As long as it is without Spurrier's help...

[Bob Green]

Scout now ranks Zach Harmon 3-Stars and the #16 center in the nation:

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=9&c=8&yr=2014

Center is a position of need for the team so Harmon's verbal commitment is looking like a very solid pick-up for Duke.

[jafarr1]

Duke just picked up a big-time commit from Johnathan Lloyd, who had offers from lots of big-name schools (Florida, Notre Dame, and Ohio State, just to name a few). He'll play football and baseball for the Blue Devils.

[-bdbd]

Duke just picked up a big-time commit from Johnathan Lloyd, who had offers from lots of big-name schools (Florida, Notre Dame, and Ohio State, just to name a few). He'll play football and baseball for the Blue Devils.

Outstanding! This is really a big-time get for Cut and staff. Think in terms of "a potential program changing athlete." His other offers included many traditional FB powerhouses, such as Notre Dame, FL, OSU, WV, Clemson, Miami, UNC, NCSU, Indiana, ILL, USC, VPI, etc.


http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=8&c=1&nid=5558501

He's from NC, and is regarded by some as smallish to play QB (6'0"), but also plays WR and some D-back (where some of the big boys wanted to place him). He is expected to play both FB and Baseball at Duke. Great "athlete."

Congrats to Cut and staff!!

And a big WELCOME to Johnathan Lloyd!!

[Bob Green]

ESPN ranks Lloyd 3-Stars with a score of 79 so he is one point shy of 4-Stars. This 10th verbal is a big commitment for the program.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/150/class/2014

[DukeSean]

ESPN ranks Lloyd 3-Stars with a score of 79 so he is one point shy of 4-Stars. This 10th verbal is a big commitment for the program.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/150/class/2014

great news and great pickup! The glass is more half full when we're beating out other major teams for recruits like Lloyd.

[OldPhiKap]

Seems like a very encouraging signing period. Exciting times in Durham, indeed!

[CameronBornAndBred]

This is a cool piece on the recruitment of Harrison Phillips. It shows some of the tactics that our coaches are using to bring these kids in.


Duke poured it on thick two weeks ago when the school sent Phillips 115 handwritten letters in one day in a bring-the-house recruiting blitz on the standout defensive lineman.
"I thought it was pretty cool, the time it must have taken them -- it was almost overwhelming," the 6-foot-3, 245-pound Phillips told me Friday. "It was hard to open all of the letters and read all of them. They were all so personal.
"They even made my mom cry, reading all the nice things about me."

http://journalstar.com/sports/columnists/sipple/steven-m-sipple-millard-west-lineman-to-go-all-out/article_8b60dfb4-0d98-5c01-a8c6-e008eca22e30.html

[Bob Green]

Christian Harris to Duke. Scout lists him as a 3-Star OT/DE. Hopefully he has FBS level defensive lineman skills. He is 6'6" 260 and from Suwanee, Georgia. He is also rated 3-Stars by Rivals. Other BCS offers are UNC, N.C. State, Mississippi State and Kentucky.

[OldPhiKap]

Welcome Mr. Harris!!!

[-bdbd]

Welcome! They say football is won in the trenches. Boy is it ever clear that we are upgrading on our lines, especially on the O-line!!! I see that as the single best area for Duke where the talent level has clearly improved since Cut's arrival. I too find myself looking at each of these kids and wondering if he will end up on the DL. This is just another great piece of the puzzle for us. Keep it rolling coaches!

[Zharmon63]

Well I figured this would be the place to ask. Where is the best mom and pop burger joint, and who has the best pizza in Durham?

[Native]

Well I figured this would be the place to ask. Where is the best mom and pop burger joint, and who has the best pizza in Durham?

Best burgers? Try Wimpy's Grill (http://www.ourstate.com/wimpys-grill/) right off of East Campus or Only Burger (http://onlyburger.com). Only Burger has a food truck that stops by campus occasionally, too.

Best pizza closest to campus is Pizza Mia (http://www.yelp.com/biz/pizza-mia-durham), IMO, and they also deliver right to your dorm on food points.

And judging by the username, welcome to Duke, Zach! We're happy to have you, man. If you have any other questions about life at Duke shoot me a PM - I'm a current junior here. Cheers!

[Greg_Newton]

Ha, welcome for sure! Lily's on Morgan Street is really good too, but more dine in.

You'll have to acquire a taste for Eastern NC style Barbecue while you're here, too. Hog Heaven on Guess Road is good, and Allen & Son outside Chapel Hill is totally worth the trek.

[Zharmon63]

Ha, welcome for sure! Lily's on Morgan Street is really good too, but more dine in.

You'll have to acquire a taste for Eastern NC style Barbecue while you're here, too. Hog Heaven on Guess Road is good, and Allen & Son outside Chapel Hill is totally worth the trek.

Thanks Newton, I don't think it will be difficult for me to adjust to Eastern NC Barbecue. lol

[Olympic Fan]

Thanks Newton, I don't think it will be difficult for me to adjust to Eastern NC Barbecue. lol

Don't want to turn this into another b'que debate, but I don't a newcomer getting bad advice either -- Guess Rod is okay, but nothing special ... Allen and Sons is living on its reputation -- since the old man died several years ago, the place had been going downhill FAST. The 'que is still usually decent (but like Hog Heaven, nothing special), but the sides are poorly done and everything is grossly overpriced.

Allen and Sons is NOT worth the trip.

[grit74]

Don't want to turn this into another b'que debate, but I don't a newcomer getting bad advice either -- Guess Rod is okay, but nothing special ... Allen and Sons is living on its reputation -- since the old man died several years ago, the place had been going downhill FAST. The 'que is still usually decent (but like Hog Heaven, nothing special), but the sides are poorly done and everything is grossly overpriced.

Allen and Sons is NOT worth the trip.

You don't want to start a debate but you do want to throw out your harsh opinion in capital letters. [redacted text]

Depending on where Zach is from, a trip to Allen & Sons might be a great experience, apart from the bbq.

[dpslaw]

I'm all for discussing Duke vs. Kentucky, but not on the football recruiting thread.

And will you kids get off of my lawn!

[Bob Green]

Monroe's Tre'Shun Wynn talks recruiting and Duke; states he and teammate Jaylan Barbour could both end up at the same college:

http://www.enquirerjournal.com/sports/localsports/x533455985/Wynn-picking-up-speed

[Bob Green]

QB Nicodem Pierre has verbally committed to Duke:


Adam Rowe ‏@BlueDevilLair 20m

BREAKING: Nico Pierre has committed to Duke http://duke.247sports.com/Board/59461/Nico-Pierre-to-Duke-20107969 … via @247Sports

Pierre is a talented prospect out of Miami who is rated 4-Stars by ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/152327/nicodem-pierre

This is big news!

[Mike Corey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQl4jv2wsfI

Another huge get for Cutcliffe. That's two guys with 4-stars under ESPN's ratings. (Lloyd is the other, I believe.)

[loran16]

QB Nicodem Pierre has verbally committed to Duke:



Pierre is a talented prospect out of Miami who is rated 4-Stars by ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/152327/nicodem-pierre

This is big news!

Good stuff. Rivals and Scout both have him solidly in the 3 star ratings, but really, I'm not worried about this team and QB going forward under cut. That's not the position Cutcliffe should have any issue recruiting.

[Greg_Newton]

Another huge get for Cutcliffe. That's two guys with 4-stars under ESPN's ratings. (Lloyd is the other, I believe.)

Very pumped! Pierre was my favorite prospect in this class. I know we aren't generally hurting for talent at QB, but IMHO, he could end up being the kind of talent that takes a program to the next level. Plus, he's a perfect fit for our zone read scheme going forward - a great athlete at ~6'3 215, and also has a cannon of an arm.

Safety Zavier Carmichael is actually the other 4-star, BTW.

[DukeSean]

Good stuff. Rivals and Scout both have him solidly in the 3 star ratings, but really, I'm not worried about this team and QB going forward under cut. That's not the position Cutcliffe should have any issue recruiting.

Yup. While this is a great get, we need to get some D-linemen. And a couple more LBs wouldn't hurt

[Mike Corey]

3-star DE Taariq Shabazz has committed to Duke!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIbSyEgPFVU

Airowe's article (http://duke.247sports.com/Article/3-Star-DE-Taariq-Shabazz-commits-to-Duke-140775).

According to Airowe, Duke beat out Vandy, Cincinnati, and others for Mr. Shabazz.

[OldPhiKap]

QB Nicodem Pierre has verbally committed to Duke:



Pierre is a talented prospect out of Miami who is rated 4-Stars by ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/152327/nicodem-pierre

This is big news!


3-star DE Taariq Shabazz has committed to Duke!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIbSyEgPFVU

Airowe's article (http://duke.247sports.com/Article/3-Star-DE-Taariq-Shabazz-commits-to-Duke-140775).

According to Airowe, Duke beat out Vandy, Cincinnati, and others for Mr. Shabazz.

Two great pick-ups! Go get 'em Cut!

[duke09hms]

Wow, in terms of top-to-bottom quality, this year's recruiting class is shaping up to be one of the best in Duke FB history. Almost all 3-star recruits, possibly a few 4-stars (depending on recruiting service), and few if any 2-stars (depending on service). We've gone from getting almost all 2-stars with a few 3 stars and unranked kids, to getting mostly 3-stars with a few 4-stars and 2-stars. Sure, recruiting services and "star" ratings are not always accurate, but generally they signify talent.

Also, remember how people were once lauding going after in-state recruits while others said Duke should use its national reach to recruit nation-wide, let's revisit that. Our best year recruiting so far, only 3 of 13 coming from NC. Last year, 4 of 20 from NC, 5 of 20 in 2012, 5 of 20 in 2011. As opposed to 9 of 20 in 2010 and 9 of 27 in 2009. Looks like Cut has gone away from that, beginning with the class of 2011.

I think it was good in the beginning to solidify our status as a legit program by going after a lot of NC players, but now once we actually have a decent foothold/reputation (aka not a laughingstock) to look nationwide. There's only so many impact HS football players that are strong students to go around. Why limit ourselves to NC where football is not the main sport, population is not super-large, and many other BCS programs recruiting the same area?

Interesting thought: People say that Duke bball recruits often see an inflation in ranking post-commitment to Duke. I wonder if that opposite effect is in play for Duke fball recruits. Like "oh well he's just a Duke commit, must be terrible."

[Dev11]

Wow, in terms of top-to-bottom quality, this year's recruiting class is shaping up to be one of the best in Duke FB history. Almost all 3-star recruits, possibly a few 4-stars (depending on recruiting service), and few if any 2-stars (depending on service). We've gone from getting almost all 2-stars with a few 3 stars and unranked kids, to getting mostly 3-stars with a few 4-stars and 2-stars. Sure, recruiting services and "star" ratings are not always accurate, but generally they signify talent.

Also, remember how people were once lauding going after in-state recruits while others said Duke should use its national reach to recruit nation-wide, let's revisit that. Our best year recruiting so far, only 3 of 13 coming from NC. Last year, 4 of 20 from NC, 5 of 20 in 2012, 5 of 20 in 2011. As opposed to 9 of 20 in 2010 and 9 of 27 in 2009. Looks like Cut has gone away from that, beginning with the class of 2011.

I think it was good in the beginning to solidify our status as a legit program by going after a lot of NC players, but now once we actually have a decent foothold/reputation (aka not a laughingstock) to look nationwide. There's only so many impact HS football players that are strong students to go around. Why limit ourselves to NC where football is not the main sport, population is not super-large, and many other BCS programs recruiting the same area?

Interesting thought: People say that Duke bball recruits often see an inflation in ranking post-commitment to Duke. I wonder if that opposite effect is in play for Duke fball recruits. Like "oh well he's just a Duke commit, must be terrible."

I always thought Cut's comments years ago about recruiting NC were a bit off. After all, the state has 5 FBS programs, presumably a much higher ratio of programs to high school students than many states in the vicinity*. Also factoring in NC being more basketball-centric than many of its neighbors, it would be harder to find and snag quality players (I say this knowing full well that the two team leaders we sent to media days, Boone and Cockrell, are both NC kids).

Duke is a national school, and that should allow us to recruit nationally. I think the proportion of NC kids to non-NC kids should fall more in line with the overall student body, which it seems like it does now.

By the way, speaking of NC as a basketball state, the three scholarship basketball players who just graduated from Duke all went to high school in NC.

*Here comes data! All from Wikipedia:
State - # of FBS programs - Population (millions) - Ratio (programs/million people)
NC - 5 - 9.8 - 0.51
SC - 2 - 4.7 - 0.43
VA - 2 - 8.2 - 0.24
TN - 4 - 6.5 - 0.62
GA - 2 - 9.9 - 0.20
MD - 2 - 5.9 - 0.34

So the problem is only worse in TN, of our "neighbors," including Georgia and Maryland because hey this is my list.

[formerdukeathlete]

I always thought Cut's comments years ago about recruiting NC were a bit off. After all, the state has 5 FBS programs, presumably a much higher ratio of programs to high school students than many states in the vicinity*. Also factoring in NC being more basketball-centric than many of its neighbors, it would be harder to find and snag quality players (I say this knowing full well that the two team leaders we sent to media days, Boone and Cockrell, are both NC kids).

Duke is a national school, and that should allow us to recruit nationally. I think the proportion of NC kids to non-NC kids should fall more in line with the overall student body, which it seems like it does now.

By the way, speaking of NC as a basketball state, the three scholarship basketball players who just graduated from Duke all went to high school in NC.

*Here comes data! All from Wikipedia:
State - # of FBS programs - Population (millions) - Ratio (programs/million people)
NC - 5 - 9.8 - 0.51
SC - 2 - 4.7 - 0.43
VA - 2 - 8.2 - 0.24
TN - 4 - 6.5 - 0.62
GA - 2 - 9.9 - 0.20
MD - 2 - 5.9 - 0.34

So the problem is only worse in TN, of our "neighbors," including Georgia and Maryland because hey this is my list.

Excellent posts. Yes, recruiting has improved, while at the same time transitioning back to something more national in scope. We are working academics more into the system. For example, I understand Nico Pierre, who attends a magnet school in Miami Dade - the best public high school down there, met with a professor at Fuqua while he was here due to his interest in studying marketing while at Duke. Other examples as well. In the 2013 class Phillip Carter from California has an interest in studying civil engineering at Duke. He met with an Engineering school Dean / professor while on his official visit to Duke.

[Greg_Newton]

Of course, recruiting NC wasn't just about getting the best talent in a given class, it was about reestablishing the program's reputation around the state, which was and still is important. I'm not sure we'd even take an in-state WR with one of our remaining spots, but we'd be in a great position to beat out other local programs for a Josh Cabrera (http://247sports.com/Player/Josh-Cabrera-24546)or Jaylan Barbour (http://247sports.com/Player/Jaylan-Barbour-20281)this year, if we were so inclined, for example. Seeing a fellow local guy like Crowder doing big things at Duke goes along way towards changing the perception, especially in the more rural areas of NC.

And of course, there's always the importance of local and state fan support, which was arguably our biggest hurdle in recruiting once the university made its commitments to the program. All else equal, I think it was smart to try to establish a local presence in those early classes, especially when we didn't have any national cache yet anyway.

[Olympic Fan]

Duke just added a commitment from 3-star DE Taariq Shabazz, 6-3, 240 from Kennesaw Mountain, Ga.

He had offers from Southern Miss, Vanderbilt, East Carolina, Cincinnati and some smaller schools. He was being recruiting by (but no offer yet) from Georgia, Auburn and Georgia Tech.

Nice pickup at a tough position for Duke to recruit.

[-jk]

Duke just added a commitment from 3-star DE Taariq Shabazz, 6-3, 240 from Kennesaw Mountain, Ga.

He had offers from Southern Miss, Vanderbilt, East Carolina, Cincinnati and some smaller schools. He was being recruiting by (but no offer yet) from Georgia, Auburn and Georgia Tech.

Nice pickup at a tough position for Duke to recruit.

I just wish I could trust football verbals. It's a completely different culture from basketball verbals.

When's signing day?

-jk

[Bob Green]

When's signing day?

-jk

Rhetorical question, but I'll bite...

February 2014, which is why it is vital we win in 2013. This coming season has the potential to be a watershed moment. We must win six games and go back to a bowl, but if we can win seven or eight topped with a bowl victory not only will all these 2014 verbals honor their commitment, but 4-Stars (and maybe a 5-Star or two) in the 2015 Class will sit up and take notice. It is all about building and sustaining momentum.

[duke09hms]

Definitely agree. We need to capitalize on our "weak" schedule this year to sustain the momentum. Our recruiting class looks great now, but we could easily lose several commitments if we falter on the field this year. The team can't be satisfied with 6 wins and a bowl anymore, hopefully that's the basement for this team. We really need Boone to be capable at QB - always a lot of uncertainty with a new QB coming in.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

National Signing Day will be February 5, 2014.:cool:

[arnie]

National Signing Day will be February 5, 2014.:cool:

Too bad these recruits can't play this year. N&O reporter rates UNC chances against all opponents (no link). He says 90% chance heels beat duke. Only Old Dominion has lower odds to beat the vaunted heels and even Middle Tennessee had 20% chance. Should be good bulletin board material for Cutcliffe.

[Bob Green]

Too bad these recruits can't play this year. N&O reporter rates UNC chances against all opponents (no link). He says 90% chance heels beat duke. Only Old Dominion has lower odds to beat the vaunted heels and even Middle Tennessee had 20% chance. Should be good bulletin board material for Cutcliffe.

Here's the link:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/uncnow/unc-football-ranking-2013-schedule-in-order-of-difficulty

I think a picture of Jamison Crowder's game winning touchdown catch would have complemented this article nicely. :D

[Bob Green]

Taariq Shabazz article from the Marietta Daily Journal:

http://mdjonline.com/view/full_story_sports/23232917/article-Mustangs--Shabazz-sets-path-for-Duke?instance=special%20_coverage_right_column

He runs a 4.6 40 yard dash and is a phenom in the weight room. His high school coach describes him as a "sideline to sideline type kid."

[Bob Green]

Here is a very solid Nico Pierre article:

http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2013/07/29/nico-pierre-hopes-take-duke-football-further

[chrishoke]

Kerrion Moore and Duke have mutually agreed to part ways. Duke was his only offer.

[Bob Green]

CB Zach Muniz becomes verbal commitment #13. Muniz is a 3-Star on ESPN and Rivals:

http://townandcountry-manchester.patch.com/groups/sports/p/cbc-football-zach-muniz-gives-verbal-pledge-to-duke

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Zach-Muniz-150052

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/297152/highlights/17648383

[Bob Green]

California TE Davis Koppenhaver verbally committed to Duke yesterday:

http://www.daviskoppenhaver.com

[Greg_Newton]

Welcome to Duke, Shaun Wilson!

Shifty RB from West Meck in Charlotte with offers from Louisville, Wake and others. Some seriously impressive highlights from his first four games of the season:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGsRMbQhS6Q

[chrishoke]

He got game. Welcome to Duke.

[Bob Green]

Here is a game action update with comments from some of the 2014 recruits:

http://bluedevilnation.net/2013/09/friday-night-lights-checking-out-the-week-5-action/

Yeah, I know...don't quit my day job! :D

[DukeSean]

Welcome to Duke, Shaun Wilson!

Shifty RB from West Meck in Charlotte with offers from Louisville, Wake and others. Some seriously impressive highlights from his first four games of the season:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGsRMbQhS6Q

That stiffarm on the first play was awesome. Glad to have him!

How many spots does that leave us with realistically? If we are still going for Josh Malone (long long shot) or Trevon Lee (much higher probability), I'm assuming one of those guys and that's it for 2014?

[roywhite]

I'll put a note in this thread, since it roughly relates to recruiting.

There's a 90-minute feature on the Manning family, the "first family of football" which was on ESPN a few nights ago (and will probably be repeated several times).

Coach Cut appears for a few minutes with comments about Archie, Peyton, and Eli. The show is well done and a very positive look at a great family.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I'll put a note in this thread, since it roughly relates to recruiting.

There's a 90-minute feature on the Manning family, the "first family of football" which was on ESPN a few nights ago (and will probably be repeated several times).

Coach Cut appears for a few minutes with comments about Archie, Peyton, and Eli. The show is well done and a very positive look at a great family.
I concur. Not only is it the sort of story you've described, it's very informative about the kind of man Archie Manning is....the man endured a variety of difficulties and yet has emerged with such high character. The kind of father he's been is a good model for dads whether their children are athletes or not. What he and Olivia have done for New Orleans is admirable. If you can watch it and not be moved by how Archie's lived is life, check your pulse!

[Bob Green]

Here is a link to an article that starts with an interview with incoming wide receiver Chris Taylor:

http://bluedevilnation.net/2013/09/friday-night-lights-chris-taylor-interview/

The article also includes an update on, and comments from incoming quarterback Johnathan Lloyd.

[nmduke2001]

2014 QB commit is signed and will enroll early. He chose Duke over Clemson, Notre Dame, Ohio State and South Carolina.

[OldPhiKap]

2014 QB commit is signed and will enroll early. He choose Duke over Clemson, Notre Dame, Ohio State and South Carolina.

To state the obvious: impressive.

[roywhite]

2014 QB commit is signed and will enroll early. He chose Duke over Clemson, Notre Dame, Ohio State and South Carolina.

Yes, an intriguing prospect, and he had a ton of offers. To be fair, nearly every other school recruited Lloyd as a WR and Coach Cut told him he could get a shot at QB.

Another talented recruit from North Carolina, in this case from nearby Alamance County.

[nmduke2001]

Yes, an intriguing prospect, and he had a ton of offers. To be fair, nearly every other school recruited Lloyd as a WR and Coach Cut told him he could get a shot at QB.

Another talented recruit from North Carolina, in this case from nearby Alamance County.

It sounds like he might play baseball as well but I can't seem to find confirmation on free sites.

[loran16]

It sounds like he might play baseball as well but I can't seem to find confirmation on free sites.

Airowe suggests he'd play centerfield. I don't pay for 24/7 to know where that's from though.

I hope he's not that averse to switching positions if he doesn't make it at QB - that's a tough competition for Duke these days.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Airowe suggests he'd play centerfield. I don't pay for 24/7 to know where that's from though.

I hope he's not that averse to switching positions if he doesn't make it at QB - that's a tough competition for Duke these days.
He's only 5'11...way to short! :rolleyes:

[airowe]

Airowe suggests he'd play centerfield. I don't pay for 24/7 to know where that's from though.

I hope he's not that averse to switching positions if he doesn't make it at QB - that's a tough competition for Duke these days.

That's directly from Johnathan himself.


He's only 5'11...way too short! :rolleyes:

He's actually 6'0". But yes, still way too short.

[Bob Green]

I hope he's not that averse to switching positions if he doesn't make it at QB - that's a tough competition for Duke these days.

With the following five scholarship QBs on the roster, I'm certain both Johnathan Lloyd and Nico Pierre will redshirt in 2014:

Anthony Boone - RSr, Brandon Connette - RSr, Thomas Sirk - RSo, Parker Boehme - RFr, Quay Chambers - RFr.

Chambers earned praise for his abilities, during August practice, and knowledgable folks have stated he could move into Connette's Phantom role in the future. It is my understanding Chambers is a fast, elusive runner.

[loran16]

With the following five scholarship QBs on the roster, I'm certain both Johnathan Lloyd and Nico Pierre will redshirt in 2014:

Anthony Boone - RSr, Brandon Connette - RSr, Thomas Sirk - RSo, Parker Boehme - RFr, Quay Chambers - RFr.

Chambers earned praise for his abilities, during August practice, and knowledgable folks have stated he could move into Connette's Phantom role in the future. It is my understanding Chambers is a fast, elusive runner.

Oh agreed. But that still leaves, 5 non-redshirt QBs on the roster in 2014-2016 (actually possibly more in 2016). Small problems to have of course. God forbid we have a 2012 Maryland situation.

[Duke_92]

This article from the summer states that also verbally committed to baseball. In addition to the schools mentioned above he had offers from 18 schools total including UNC and NC State! Way to win those in-state recruiting battles.

http://www.thetimesnews.com/sports/high-school-sports/lloyd-makes-football-baseball-commitment-to-duke-1.153063

[budwom]

This sets up an interesting situation. Cut promised him a shot at QB, so I'm sure he'll get it. But as a true freshman (albeit with Spring experience)
he'll be behind Boone, Connette, Sirk, Boehme next fall....and competing with true frosh Pierre as well....the following year Sirk (whom the staff
evidently likes a whole lot and perhaps Boehme)...

What makes it interesting is that Lloyd is obviously a terrific WR (as the offer sheet illustrates) and we could VERY much use
a second home run threat to put alongside Crowder...so does he sit for a year, or two, or three, as he tries to work his
way up the QB food chain? or does he choose to play immediately as a WR, the position for which everyone else recruited him?

It would be a shame to have an athlete of his caliber available but not playing...I guess this is why we pay Cut the big (soon to be bigger I suspect)
bucks...

[Bob Green]

Oh agreed. But that still leaves, 5 non-redshirt QBs on the roster in 2014-2016 (actually possibly more in 2016). Small problems to have of course. God forbid we have a 2012 Maryland situation.

Yep, I agree with you. Based on things I've read, it will not surprise me to see Chambers and Lloyd playing receiver in the long run.

[Dev11]

This sets up an interesting situation. Cut promised him a shot at QB, so I'm sure he'll get it. But as a true freshman (albeit with Spring experience)
he'll be behind Boone, Connette, Sirk, Boehme next fall....and competing with true frosh Pierre as well....the following year Sirk (whom the staff
evidently likes a whole lot and perhaps Boehme)...

What makes it interesting is that Lloyd is obviously a terrific WR (as the offer sheet illustrates) and we could VERY much use
a second home run threat to put alongside Crowder...so does he sit for a year, or two, or three, as he tries to work his
way up the QB food chain? or does he choose to play immediately as a WR, the position for which everyone else recruited him?

It would be a shame to have an athlete of his caliber available but not playing...I guess this is why we pay Cut the big (soon to be bigger I suspect)
bucks...

I like the idea of us having guys who are 'offensive' players. Like the 'positionless' Miami Heat-style basketball, if you have football players who have more varied skills, you can design more creative and elaborate attacks for them. A backfield full of Connettes might be a thing of the future.

[OldPhiKap]

I like the idea of us having guys who are 'offensive' players. Like the 'positionless' Miami Heat-style basketball, if you have football players who have more varied skills, you can design more creative and elaborate attacks for them. A backfield full of Connettes might be a thing of the future.

Exactly. We line Boone up on WR now when Connette comes in sometimes, and have Connette in when Boone is taking the snap on occassion.

If he is fast and can play, he will be on the field somewhere.

[loran16]

Exactly. We line Boone up on WR now when Connette comes in sometimes, and have Connette in when Boone is taking the snap on occassion.

If he is fast and can play, he will be on the field somewhere.

With our WR core, I sometimes wonder why we don't do the Connette at WR play more often.

[OldPhiKap]

With our WR core, I sometimes wonder why we don't do the Connette at WR play more often.

True. Oddly enough, it seems we did it more last year although I may be wrong about that.

Either way, Roper has the QB switch working pretty effectively these last two games.

We REALLY need to start strong this week, we cannot spot Carolina a few scores before we get it in gear.

[jimsumner]

With the following five scholarship QBs on the roster, I'm certain both Johnathan Lloyd and Nico Pierre will redshirt in 2014:

Anthony Boone - RSr, Brandon Connette - RSr, Thomas Sirk - RSo, Parker Boehme - RFr, Quay Chambers - RFr.

Chambers earned praise for his abilities, during August practice, and knowledgable folks have stated he could move into Connette's Phantom role in the future. It is my understanding Chambers is a fast, elusive runner.

RE: Chambers. Kenny Anunike told me that Chambers was the hardest guy on the team for him to tackle.

FWIW.

RE: Connette at wide receiver. The injury to Sirk has forced Duke to dial back Connette a bit. Recall that for much of the season, Connette was pretty much it at QB, until Boone got healthy.

[Dev11]

RE: Chambers. Kenny Anunike told me that Chambers was the hardest guy on the team for him to tackle.

FWIW.

RE: Connette at wide receiver. The injury to Sirk has forced Duke to dial back Connette a bit. Recall that for much of the season, Connette was pretty much it at QB, until Boone got healthy.

Connette, Boone, and Sirk should all be on the roster next year, right? Hopefully that means we can see more crazy Connette packages, not that whatever they're doing this year hasn't worked.

[jimsumner]

Connette, Boone, and Sirk should all be on the roster next year, right? Hopefully that means we can see more crazy Connette packages, not that whatever they're doing this year hasn't worked.

Yes. And Parker Boeheme and Chambers. And two freshmen. So, lots of options at QB.

[devildeac]

That's directly from Johnathan himself.



He's actually 6'0". But yes, still way too short.

"Put me in coach, I'm ready to play..."

[loran16]

"Put me in coach, I'm ready to play..."

I can't decide whether to give you approval or flag you for this song quote.

[devildeac]

I can't decide whether to give you approval or flag you for this song quote.

That was just waaay too easy when we started talking about CF. Shoot, if he's got the quickness/speed/instincts to play CF, Cut may make him a DB;) .

BTW, I'll always take the (+) :D .

[SoCalDukeFan]

I have read the Coach Cutcliffe thinks (and I think he is right) that the can evaluate talent better than the recruiting gurus. I also think that its easy to make mistakes evaluating high school football players.

Having said that, how are we doing? Quality? Quantity? Compared to the other ACC schools? Any who look like future stars?

Thanks

[jafarr1]

A high level recruiting summary:

Duke has relatively few graduating seniors, so this will be a small class. We're currently at 16, and we're likely to take only one more. The big name still out there is Trevon Lee, a talented WR who would compete for playing time almost immediately.

If you're a fan of recruiting rankings, we likely won't show well on the recruiting sites' class rankings because of the low numbers, but this year's class is pretty strong on a per-recruit basis. Most of our recruits have been given three stars. Scout lists three of our recruits at two-stars, Rivals lists two, 247 sports lists one, and ESPN lists none. ESPN lists three of our players at four-stars.

Nine of our players have multiple offers from other BCS schools. Five more have one other BCS offers (three from Vanderbilt, one from Syracuse, one from Iowa State). Two players have no offers from other BCS schools.

It's hard to project which players will potentially be stars for us, but here are a few possibilities: Johnathan Lloyd (QB/WR), Nico Pierre (QB), Shawn Wilson (RB), Alonzo Saxton (CB), Zavier Carmichael (S/LB), and Tinashe Bere (LB). We also have a really deep OL class, with five solid prospects coming in.

If I had to pick an area of concern, it would be the DL. The two DL commits that we have are less highly regarded, and we'll need to replace our entire DL two-deep over the next two years, so hopefully Cutcliffe and the staff did a good job finding a couple of under-the-radar types.

[Bob Green]

I agree with Jafarr1's excellent summary with one nit: it is Shaun Wilson.

[SoCalDukeFan]

A high level recruiting summary:

Duke has relatively few graduating seniors, so this will be a small class. We're currently at 16, and we're likely to take only one more. The big name still out there is Trevon Lee, a talented WR who would compete for playing time almost immediately.

If you're a fan of recruiting rankings, we likely won't show well on the recruiting sites' class rankings because of the low numbers, but this year's class is pretty strong on a per-recruit basis. Most of our recruits have been given three stars. Scout lists three of our recruits at two-stars, Rivals lists two, 247 sports lists one, and ESPN lists none. ESPN lists three of our players at four-stars.

Nine of our players have multiple offers from other BCS schools. Five more have one other BCS offers (three from Vanderbilt, one from Syracuse, one from Iowa State). Two players have no offers from other BCS schools.

It's hard to project which players will potentially be stars for us, but here are a few possibilities: Johnathan Lloyd (QB/WR), Nico Pierre (QB), Shawn Wilson (RB), Alonzo Saxton (CB), Zavier Carmichael (S/LB), and Tinashe Bere (LB). We also have a really deep OL class, with five solid prospects coming in.

If I had to pick an area of concern, it would be the DL. The two DL commits that we have are less highly regarded, and we'll need to replace our entire DL two-deep over the next two years, so hopefully Cutcliffe and the staff did a good job finding a couple of under-the-radar types.

This really helps. Recruiting can be very situational. If you have lots of room than a large class is good, if you don't then a small class with quality is good. Nice to see some quality players.

SoCal

[Faison1]

It seems that we have always had a tough time landing highly regarded (at least 3 star) defensive lineman. Is there a specific reason?

We seem to be good with position players and O-Lineman....yet we struggle getting D-Lineman.....why is that?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

It seems that we have always had a tough time landing highly regarded (at least 3 star) defensive lineman. Is there a specific reason?

We seem to be good with position players and O-Lineman....yet we struggle getting D-Lineman.....why is that?
I've had the impression that DL stars are harder to find than OL stars.

[roywhite]

It seems that we have always had a tough time landing highly regarded (at least 3 star) defensive lineman. Is there a specific reason?

We seem to be good with position players and O-Lineman....yet we struggle getting D-Lineman.....why is that?

My impression is that:

Good defensive linemen are at a premium; every program wants guys with size, but also the quickness to rush the passer
Giood defensive line prospects with good academics are even more rare
That leaves a small pool for Duke, and historically we haven't scored well from that pool

It's probably the biggest recruiting hurdle left in Coach Cut's overall plan

[NSDukeFan]

My impression is that:

Good defensive linemen are at a premium; every program wants guys with size, but also the quickness to rush the passer
Giood defensive line prospects with good academics are even more rare
That leaves a small pool for Duke, and historically we haven't scored well from that pool

It's probably the biggest recruiting hurdle left in Coach Cut's overall plan

I don't think coach Cut played DL and isn't 6'5 250+ and therefore couldn't possibly coach defensive linemen. All the other coaches are negatively recruiting and using that against the staff.

[loran16]

I don't think coach Cut played DL and isn't 6'5 250+ and therefore couldn't possibly coach defensive linemen. All the other coaches are negatively recruiting and using that against the staff.

I know the joke here (haha Wojo big man coach) but to an extent this is true - although it's not likely negative recruiting. Cut's a well known offensive guru. So persuading offensive players to come here isn't a big problem. Moreover, DBs are often converted WRs and the like, so it's not that hard to get them either. DLinemen are an area where we don't have anyone particularly well known for coaching the position, so it's not as easy to get them.

[airowe]

DLinemen are an area where we don't have anyone particularly well known for coaching the position, so it's not as easy to get them.

Ummm, Rick Petri coached John Abraham, Warren Sapp, and many other early round NFL draft picks.

John Abraham - 1st Round (New York Jets, 2000)
Warren Sapp - 1st Round (Tampa Bay, 1995)
Kenard Lang - 1st Round (Washington, 1997)
Kenny Holmes - 1st Round (Houston, 1997)
Kelvin Pritchett - 1st Round (Dallas, 1991)
Myron Pryor - 6th round (New England, 2009)
Jeremy Jarmon - 3rd round (Washington, 2010)
Corey Peters - 3rd round (Atlanta, 2010)
Kendrick Clancy - 3rd round (Pittsburgh, 2000)

He's very well known for coaching the position.

[loran16]

Ummm, Rick Petri coached John Abraham, Warren Sapp, and many other early round NFL draft picks.

John Abraham - 1st Round (New York Jets, 2000)
Warren Sapp - 1st Round (Tampa Bay, 1995)
Kenard Lang - 1st Round (Washington, 1997)
Kenny Holmes - 1st Round (Houston, 1997)
Kelvin Pritchett - 1st Round (Dallas, 1991)
Myron Pryor - 6th round (New England, 2009)
Jeremy Jarmon - 3rd round (Washington, 2010)
Corey Peters - 3rd round (Atlanta, 2010)
Kendrick Clancy - 3rd round (Pittsburgh, 2000)

He's very well known for coaching the position.

Fair enough. Needs to get out there and use that resume more then :-P

[Olympic Fan]

Just want to point out there is a connection between the great number of local players on this year's team and the fact that Cut pays little attention to the star system.

If he can get a guy in one of his camps where he can evaluate that player with his own eyes up close (rather than on film), he has proven the ability to target underrated players. That's why so many of the underrated prospects on this team are from North Carolina.

The Duke team that just won 10 games and the Coastal Division title is largely made up of two and three star players. Amazing number of two stars that have become studs -- Cockrell for one ... Boone. Breon Borders, who picked Winston twice. Devon Edwards ...

I agree that to make the next step and reach the level where we can beat the Florida State's of the world, we'll need some four and even five-star recruits. Hopefully, this year's success (and next year's sustained success, which I expect) will make that happen.

[duke09hms]

Just want to point out there is a connection between the great number of local players on this year's team and the fact that Cut pays little attention to the star system.

If he can get a guy in one of his camps where he can evaluate that player with his own eyes up close (rather than on film), he has proven the ability to target underrated players. That's why so many of the underrated prospects on this team are from North Carolina.

The Duke team that just won 10 games and the Coastal Division title is largely made up of two and three star players. Amazing number of two stars that have become studs -- Cockrell for one ... Boone. Breon Borders, who picked Winston twice. Devon Edwards ...

I agree that to make the next step and reach the level where we can beat the Florida State's of the world, we'll need some four and even five-star recruits. Hopefully, this year's success (and next year's sustained success, which I expect) will make that happen.

It's already happening. This year's incoming class, considered to be a historic class in terms of individual quality, only has 3 of 16 recruits from North Carolina. Just about every commitment is considered a 3-star recruit with a few borderline 4-star talents.

I support his initial strategy of focusing in-state, garnering academically-eligible talent to establish a solid talent base, but to take the next step toward Stanford-level excellence in football without compromising academics will take a national focus.

[jafarr1]

It's already happening. This year's incoming class, considered to be a historic class in terms of individual quality, only has 3 of 16 recruits from North Carolina. Just about every commitment is considered a 3-star recruit with a few borderline 4-star talents.

I support his initial strategy of focusing in-state, garnering academically-eligible talent to establish a solid talent base, but to take the next step toward Stanford-level excellence in football without compromising academics will take a national focus.

It's already happened. Having three of 16 NC recruits from NC in this class isn't statistically different than having 4 of 20 the prior year, or even the 5 of 20 the year before that. The 2010 class with its nine NC commits is likely the last one we'll have that is skewed so heavily towards NC.

That said, I don't think the number of NC commits necssarily correlates to a good or bad recruiting year. There are plenty of good players in the state. The three NC commits in this class are all really good players.

[OldPhiKap]

It's already happened. Having three of 16 NC recruits from NC in this class isn't statistically different than having 4 of 20 the prior year, or even the 5 of 20 the year before that. The 2010 class with its nine NC commits is likely the last one we'll have that is skewed so heavily towards NC.

That said, I don't think the number of NC commits necssarily correlates to a good or bad recruiting year. There are plenty of good players in the state. The three NC commits in this class are all really good players.

Cut is committed to recruiting locally, and has said several times that geography is always an important consideration a kid gives in deciding where to go. I think Cut will continue to recruit the state hard.

[budwom]

While not foolproof, looking at what other BCS offers a kid has seems a much better indication of talent
than number of stars awarded by recruiting sites. In other words college coaches judge talent better
than most so-called recruiting gurus who assign stars.

There was an article in one of the local rags recently about our in-state talent, and it listed the NC kids who
unc (small letters only) also offered....and not surprisingly all (seven?) were kids who contribute heavily.
Again, not foolproof but a good indication of talent.

p.s. not to digress too much, but I think UNC still probably has a fair more talent than Duke does (but the gap
is closing nicely) though you can tell by watching them play they are undisciplined and simply don't appear to
be as well coached, this from my admittedly biased point of view. (if there were awards for dumb penalties,
unc would be in the running for them).

[jafarr1]

While not foolproof, looking at what other BCS offers a kid has seems a much better indication of talent than number of stars awarded by recruiting sites. In other words college coaches judge talent better than most so-called recruiting gurus who assign stars.


I'm pretty sure that Breon Borders, Devon Edwards and Bryon Fields had zero other BCS offers. Those three left Evrett Edwards and Chris Holmes, two freshmen with extremely impressive offer lists, on the bench to red-shirt this season. Other examples of Duke players without BCS offers include Perry Simmons and Walt Canty.

Another failure of looking at BCS offers is that some reported offer lists are incomplete. At least two recruits from our 2013 class (Dominic McDonald and Sterling Korona) had reported offer lists that omitted numerous BCS offers. Similarly, in this class at least two Duke commits (Chris Taylor and Zavier Carmichael) would have more BCS offers (possibly several more) if they hadn't shut their recruiting down early.

That isn't to say there is no value in this metric, but only to point out that it carries its own set of flaws. So, in the interest of completeness, here are the stats for this class:

* Nine of Duke's sixteen commits have at least three other BCS offers.
* Another five have one other BCS offer (that group includes Taylor and Carmichael).
* Two of the sixteen Duke commits have no other reported BCS offers.

By this measure, we're doing pretty well in this class.

[sagegrouse]

Cut is committed to recruiting locally, and has said several times that geography is always an important consideration a kid gives in deciding where to go. I think Cut will continue to recruit the state hard.

You gotta pay attention to your home state and try to be the dominant team. That means wins, recruiting, and reputation.

sage

[devildeac]

You gotta pay attention to your home state and try to be the dominant team. That means wins, recruiting, and reputation.

sage

As Julian posted on the Home Page recently:

3743

[-jk]

You gotta pay attention to your home state and try to be the dominant team. That means wins, recruiting, and reputation.

sage

Eh! Cut Country!

And go find the (blue) bloody t-shirt yourself!

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

You gotta pay attention to your home state and try to be the dominant team. That means wins, recruiting, and reputation.

sage

Absolutely agree.

We were the best team in the state this year. That is a big deal. Do that'd or a few years, and you will have a real recruiting bonanza. If most of the best players in any state want to play for you, you start selecting and not just recruiting.

[53n206]

Helps a little in attendance.

[devildeac]

As Julian posted on the Home Page recently:

3743


Eh! Cut Country!

And go find the (blue) bloody t-shirt yourself!

-jk


Absolutely agree.

We were the best team in the state this year. That is a big deal. Do that'd or a few years, and you will have a real recruiting bonanza. If most of the best players in any state want to play for you, you start selecting and not just recruiting.

Ha! Great minds think alike:rolleyes:. All three posts at 10:11 PM. ;)

Well done, gentlemen. We couldn't have scripted/coordinated that better if we had plotted and schemed to do so.

[OldPhiKap]

Ha! Great minds think alike:rolleyes:. All three posts at 10:11 PM. ;)

Well done, gentlemen. We couldn't have scripted/coordinated that better if we had plotted and schemed to do so.

Once a Crazie, ALWAYS a Crazie . . . .

And we did it without BOG coordinating! And Heaven forbid, NO cheer sheet.

[AncientPsychicT]

Ha! Great minds think alike:rolleyes:. All three posts at 10:11 PM. ;)

Well done, gentlemen. We couldn't have scripted/coordinated that better if we had plotted and schemed to do so.

And yet, still not quite at the level of loran's sig... :D :(

[devildeac]

And yet, still not quite at the level of loran's sig... :D :(

You should have been in that chat session. Now that was an interesting evening.

I can hardly wait until football signing day to see what kind of bump we might get after this great season.

[CameronBornAndBred]

You should have been in that chat session. Now that was an interesting evening.

I can hardly wait until football signing day to see what kind of bump we might get after this great season.
I'm still drinking from that game.
I hadn't thought of the magnitude of our taking the state beyond bragging rights, but I think OPK is dead on. I've read the stories this year from the Charlotte area players that Cut recruited, and the grief they got from friends about choosing Duke. "Duke?! Are you crazy?!" was the common theme. Now, I am thinking it is turning more into "Duke?! Wow, I'm jealous!"

[budwom]

I'm pretty sure that Breon Borders, Devon Edwards and Bryon Fields had zero other BCS offers. Those three left Evrett Edwards and Chris Holmes, two freshmen with extremely impressive offer lists, on the bench to red-shirt this season. Other examples of Duke players without BCS offers include Perry Simmons and Walt Canty.

Another failure of looking at BCS offers is that some reported offer lists are incomplete. At least two recruits from our 2013 class (Dominic McDonald and Sterling Korona) had reported offer lists that omitted numerous BCS offers. Similarly, in this class at least two Duke commits (Chris Taylor and Zavier Carmichael) would have more BCS offers (possibly several more) if they hadn't shut their recruiting down early.

That isn't to say there is no value in this metric, but only to point out that it carries its own set of flaws. So, in the interest of completeness, here are the stats for this class:

* Nine of Duke's sixteen commits have at least three other BCS offers.
* Another five have one other BCS offer (that group includes Taylor and Carmichael).
* Two of the sixteen Duke commits have no other reported BCS offers.

By this measure, we're doing pretty well in this class.

Some good points there, jafarr, especially on Borders and fields. Devon was injured as a senior, probably explains lack of interest (though his size might've scared some people)
In general I think it's pretty clear that there's a general correlation between our improved classes, year by year, and more BCS offers...very much agree that getting kids to commit early can preclude other BCS offers.
I'm not that big on the NC recruiting thing...sure, it's great to get good local kids, and luring them may be easier than luring kids from outside the area, but I'll pass on a good NC kid in favor of a better kid from elsewhere any
day of the week.
Opportunity knocks for the 2015 class. For the first time in forever we can boast not about our plans, but our accomplishments...(OK, last year was pretty good, too). I have high hopes for this next class.

[roywhite]

You should have been in that chat session. Now that was an interesting evening.

I can hardly wait until football signing day to see what kind of bump we might get after this great season.

We'll probably need to wait until signing day in February, 2015 to see the impact of this past season's success.

The 2014 class is relatively small, with 16 verbal commitments so far (perhaps 1 or 2 more still a possibility) and most of them announced before the season began. The 10-win season has probably been helpful in solidifying the commitments of those kids, as we haven't seen the de-commits that have happened some in previous years.

Just my guess at this point, but I expect the 2015 class to be one of Duke's best in a long time.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

We'll probably need to wait until signing day in February, 2015 to see the impact of this past season's success.

The 2014 class is relatively small, with 16 verbal commitments so far (perhaps 1 or 2 more still a possibility) and most of them announced before the season began. The 10-win season has probably been helpful in solidifying the commitments of those kids, as we haven't seen the de-commits that have happened some in previous years.

Just my guess at this point, but I expect the 2015 class to be one of Duke's best in a long time.

When a recruit commits to Coach Cut, he asks them if they are 100% sure. He tells them there is no such thing as a soft commitment, if they are unsure, then they are not ready to commit. If they commit but then go on another recruiting trip elsewhere, their offer to Duke is rescinded. We don't lose many after they commit, although it has happened (last year, didn't we lose one on signing day?)

[Bob Green]

We don't lose many after they commit, although it has happened (last year, didn't we lose one on signing day?)

Darren Andrews, a wide receiver, switched from Duke to UCLA.

[Faison1]

When a recruit commits to Coach Cut, he asks them if they are 100% sure. He tells them there is no such thing as a soft commitment, if they are unsure, then they are not ready to commit. If they commit but then go on another recruiting trip elsewhere, their offer to Duke is rescinded. We don't lose many after they commit, although it has happened (last year, didn't we lose one on signing day?)

What happened with that kid a couple/few years ago who was a 4-star linebacker? He backed out of a Duke commit in favor of Notre Dame.

Is he playing now? Has he been good for them?

[jafarr1]

I'm not that big on the NC recruiting thing...sure, it's great to get good local kids, and luring them may be easier than luring kids from outside the area, but I'll pass on a good NC kid in favor of a better kid from elsewhere any day of the week.

I think everyone would agree that we'd prefer the better player, regardless of his home state. At the same time, NC needs to remain a core part of Duke's recruiting strategy. There are numerous benefits: easier to visit / evaluate the recruits (and vice versa), more fans attending games, distance isn't a negative during recruitment, etc.

Our recruitment of Shaun Wilson demonstrates the benefits of recruiting locally. Recruiting interest in him started to blow up this fall, and Duke caught wind of it early and was able to move quickly on him. That may not have been possible if Wilson were further away. (As an aside, if you haven't watched Wilson's highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f--6wctkUY), you should. They're a lot of fun.)

Again, I totally agree that I'd rather take the better player, no matter his home state. I'm certainly not advocating that we take players just because they're from NC. Still, NC has been good to Duke, and that can continue if we recruit intelligently.

[OldPhiKap]

I think everyone would agree that we'd prefer the better player, regardless of his home state. At the same time, NC needs to remain a core part of Duke's recruiting strategy. There are numerous benefits: easier to visit / evaluate the recruits (and vice versa), more fans attending games, distance isn't a negative during recruitment, etc.

Our recruitment of Shaun Wilson demonstrates the benefits of recruiting locally. Recruiting interest in him started to blow up this fall, and Duke caught wind of it early and was able to move quickly on him. That may not have been possible if Wilson were further away. (As an aside, if you haven't watched Wilson's highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f--6wctkUY), you should. They're a lot of fun.)

Again, I totally agree that I'd rather take the better player, no matter his home state. I'm certainly not advocating that we take players just because they're from NC. Still, NC has been good to Duke, and that can continue if we recruit intelligently.

Unless you are Alabama or a national powerhouse, a lot of the recruiting muscle comes from relationships with high school coaches as well. That's just much easier to do locally than, say, mining for talent in western PA or the UP in Michigan.

But we do have an advantage in that Duke is a national brand. Just not yet in football. But given repeated bowl trips, if we can sustain, that too will change. We are a somewhat unique institution, not perfect for everyone. But for those players that would be interested in Duke, putting out a quality product lets them know that they can have good academics and athletics.

[-bdbd]

Saw Cut speak to a small group of Alums in DC back in April. This issue came up. He explained that this is a core part of his recruiting philosophy, dating back to TN and Ole Miss. He explained that you want to establish a relatively localized base, within driving distance (say 4-5 hours, so the parents can visit their kids on game day, feel comfortable with proximity, establish relationships with a core group of HS coaches, etc. It apparently is easier to get commitments if the parents feel they can drive there and back for a game, etc.

But I agree that quality of the recruit should dominate the targeting discussion.

[killerleft]

Some good points there, jafarr, especially on Borders and fields. Devon was injured as a senior, probably explains lack of interest (though his size might've scared some people)
In general I think it's pretty clear that there's a general correlation between our improved classes, year by year, and more BCS offers...very much agree that getting kids to commit early can preclude other BCS offers.
I'm not that big on the NC recruiting thing...sure, it's great to get good local kids, and luring them may be easier than luring kids from outside the area, but I'll pass on a good NC kid in favor of a better kid from elsewhere any
day of the week.Opportunity knocks for the 2015 class. For the first time in forever we can boast not about our plans, but our accomplishments...(OK, last year was pretty good, too). I have high hopes for this next class.

Yeah, I'm with you, but I wonder why UNC has beaten us like a drum until Cut got a few of those inferior NC boys?:rolleyes: Sorry, Budwom, gonna have to disagree with you mightily on this.

Edit: Re-read your post, but apart from stating the obvious in that we should get the best players from wherever we can, you DID say you're not big on the NC recruiting thing. I feel that taking away some top NC talent from UNC, State, and Wake should be the cornerstone of our recruiting efforts.

[budwom]

Yeah, I'm with you, but I wonder why UNC has beaten us like a drum until Cut got a few of those inferior NC boys?:rolleyes: Sorry, Budwom, gonna have to disagree with you mightily on this.

Edit: Re-read your post, but apart from stating the obvious in that we should get the best players from wherever we can, you DID say you're not big on the NC recruiting thing. I feel that taking away some top NC talent from UNC, State, and Wake should be the cornerstone of our recruiting efforts.

I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm all for getting the very best kids we can, and I do understand the advantages there are in evaluating NC kids vs. kids located elsewhere.
My post was in reaction to some posts I've seen in various places which emphasize how important it is to have NC kids on our roster.
I really don't care where the kids come from as long as they can play.
I DO understand that given where we are in the growth of our program, it may be much easier to grab NC kids vs. Ohio kids for example (though we have some of those, too).
Ability evaluate, favorable local publicity, these are all helpful.

But eventually I'd like to see us increase our national recruiting, and we should be able to do so as our reputation grows. Even though California is chock full of
great prospects, look at the Stanford roster: it's loaded with kids from all over the country. That's the general direction I'd like to see us go in.

Again, no knock on NC kids, but once we have them on our roster, I see no extra value per se in an NC kid vs. a kid from anywhere else, where some folks do.
That's what I mean by "The NC recruiting thing."

[SoCalDukeFan]

Saw Cut speak to a small group of Alums in DC back in April. This issue came up. He explained that this is a core part of his recruiting philosophy, dating back to TN and Ole Miss. He explained that you want to establish a relatively localized base, within driving distance (say 4-5 hours, so the parents can visit their kids on game day, feel comfortable with proximity, establish relationships with a core group of HS coaches, etc. It apparently is easier to get commitments if the parents feel they can drive there and back for a game, etc.

But I agree that quality of the recruit should dominate the targeting discussion.

I fully understand what Cut said. He is not saying he is recruiting exclusively in NC or whatever but that he will focus his recruiting in the local area. Obviously if he identifies players with the potential to handle Duke football and the classroom, them he will go after them as well.

My issue is how many of those players are there every year and what is the competition for them when you have unc-ch, NC State, Wake, Va Tech, UVa, Clemson, SC etc all recruiting core players from the same relatively small area.

SoCal

[budwom]

I fully understand what Cut said. He is not saying he is recruiting exclusively in NC or whatever but that he will focus his recruiting in the local area. Obviously if he identifies players with the potential to handle Duke football and the classroom, them he will go after them as well.

My issue is how many of those players are there every year and what is the competition for them when you have unc-ch, NC State, Wake, Va Tech, UVa, Clemson, SC etc all recruiting core players from the same relatively small area.

SoCal

Yup, it's a heavily recruited area, but it's great to see we're getting good players who formerly would've gone elsewhere. Understand Cut's POV....

As time goes on I hope and expect we'll be able to lure more prospects from around the country.
The hoops roster doesn't have any scholarship kids from NC, and they manage to get by...it's never even an issue.
(I know, need a lot more guys for football....)

[loran16]

Again, no knock on NC kids, but once we have them on our roster, I see no extra value per se in an NC kid vs. a kid from anywhere else, where some folks do.
That's what I mean by "The NC recruiting thing."

There actually is, believe it or not. Every team only has limited resources in scouting potential recruits, and it's a LOT easier to scout kids from nearby areas than it is from all the way across the country. An effect of this is that not only do you have greater odds of landing such kids, but you have greater odds of finding the diamonds in the rough who aren't as well known to national recruiting services.

And Duke is going to NEED those kids to succeed- we're unlikely to ever be such a power that we can have a class of entirely nationally ranked kids.

[duke09hms]

- we're unlikely to ever be such a power that we can have a class of entirely nationally ranked kids.

Haven't you heard, we're a football school now.

Don't know if Cut agrees with that. I'm sure he's aiming as high as he possibly for Duke. I think we could get to a level where our classes are made of 3 and 4-star players with maybe a 5-star every few years or so. The 2014 class is already almost at that level (mostly 3-star, a few borderline 4-star), and that's before the current season will pay recruiting dividends.

[killerleft]

There actually is, believe it or not. Every team only has limited resources in scouting potential recruits, and it's a LOT easier to scout kids from nearby areas than it is from all the way across the country. An effect of this is that not only do you have greater odds of landing such kids, but you have greater odds of finding the diamonds in the rough who aren't as well known to national recruiting services.

And Duke is going to NEED those kids to succeed- we're unlikely to ever be such a power that we can have a class of entirely nationally ranked kids.

It really IS just that simple. North Carolina and southern Virginia are our best bet for putting together a solid, year-in and year-out winner. We're not a national juggernaut, and local recruits are the ones taking notice of David Cutcliffe and Duke football.

[duke09hms]

It really IS just that simple. North Carolina and southern Virginia are our best bet for putting together a solid, year-in and year-out winner. We're not a national juggernaut, and local recruits are the ones taking notice of David Cutcliffe and Duke football.

If what you're saying is true, then it's not looking good for us is it?

2009: 9/28
2010: 9/19
2011: 5/17
2012: 5/21.
2013: 4/20. 5 from FL.
2014: 3/16 or 17 depending on if Trevon Lee of FL commits. 3 from OH, 3 from GA, 2 from FL.

The # and percentage of recruits from NC has been decreasing the last several years. The only reason the # of starters or solid contributors from NC is so high on our current roster is because the NC-heavy 2009 and 2010 classes are now our upperclassmen 4th/5th year players, who are doing phenomenally.

I'm not saying we should ignore NC. Far from it, if there's talented athletes who are also talented students in the area, we should definitely recruit them and recruit them hard. But if Duke wants to compete with and beat the best programs and still maintain our academic standards, which I believe is what Coach Cut has stated is our goal, we're going to need those 4-star recruits who are also studs in the classroom. There aren't that many to go around nationally, let alone in a single state that's not Texas or California.

I think the evidence above indicates that Coach Cut recognizes this as well. We're always going to recruit a couple kids from NC every year to maintain those local relationships and footprint, but I doubt it'll ever be like it was when Cut was getting started and the cupboard was bare. In the most recent 2013 and 2014 classes, we see that other states have now seized or shared the plurality of our recruits.

[budwom]

I'm with duke09hms. Very well stated. Oh sure, we can save on gas by scouting the NC kids. I do understand how we have an opportunity to assess local kids more, and they may be impressed with us
being located nearby.

Nonetheless, as I've tried to point out before, there's nothing inherently better about a good NC kid and a good kid from elsewhere.

And if we really want to continue to improve the program (and I think we will) we're going to have to appeal to kids in a growing geographic area, a la Stanford
and other national powers. We'll continue to get some great NC kids, but as others have noted, competition in the NC/VA area is very stiff.

We do recruit nationally now, but I hope that this year's success will make us more attractive to other great kids around the country who might not have taken
us seriously in past years. The data above shows that we're moving in that direction already.

(years ago Duke recruited very well in Ohio, PA and NJ among other northern states. We still get some good players from that region, and hopefully we'll soon get even more).

[nocilla]

Nonetheless, as I've tried to point out before, there's nothing inherently better about a good NC kid and a good kid from elsewhere.


Well I can think of one thing. Attendance. I think local kids will bring more fans to Wallace Wade. It's just easier for family and friends to go to a close game. Maybe it isn't enough to make much of a difference though.

[budwom]

Well I can think of one thing. Attendance. I think local kids will bring more fans to Wallace Wade. It's just easier for family and friends to go to a close game. Maybe it isn't enough to make much of a difference though.

I'm glad you said this. I believe that is the crux of the argument I/we often hear, and as a guy who has attended most of our home games for the past 40 years or so, I
see no evidence of this. Sure, I bet if you have 10 NC kids that might bring an extra 100 folks into WW.

But the only observable correlation I have seen over the years with regard to attendance is winning. When we win, people come. When we're
mediocre, they don't.

This season was a good illustration. WW was frankly pretty dead early in the season (despite last tear's bowl season) but attendance
noticeably soared once we got a win streak going.

Anyway, that's just my view.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Article up on GoDuke.com about Johnathan Lloyd. He has officially signed.

Johnathan Lloyd, a 6-0, 195-pound quarterback from Southern Alamance High School in Graham, N.C., has signed a financial aid agreement to attend Duke University and will join the football team for bowl preparation practices beginning Monday.
Pretty cool that he gets to start practice prior to the bowl game. :D
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209342264&DB_OEM_ID=4200

[Reilly]

... there's nothing inherently better about a good NC kid and a good kid from elsewhere. ...

I think there is something inherently better about a pool of good NC kids and a pool of good kids elsewhere: the likelihood that the kid will actually commit. Take 100 North Carolinians versus 100 Californians -- all of the same football talent level -- and more of the North Carolinians will, inherently, want to stay close to NC while more of the Californians will, inherently, want to stay in California. Yes, some of the east kids will want to get away and go west, and vice versa, but over the pool, and generally speaking, somewhat-close-proximity is generally a plus factor for any pool of recruits.

[OldPhiKap]

Article up on GoDuke.com about Johnathan Lloyd. He has officially signed.

Pretty cool that he gets to start practice prior to the bowl game. :D
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209342264&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Welcome Mr. Lloyd! May this be the first of many bowls you attend in the next five years!

[roywhite]

Devilsden is reporting that DT Edgar Cerenord (6'2" 285 lbs) from Florida has committed to Coach Cut's program.

Important addition at a position of need; I'd guess he gets a shot at playing time his 1st season.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Devilsden is reporting that DT Edgar Cerenord (6'2" 285 lbs) from Florida has committed to Coach Cut's program.

Important addition at a position of need; I'd guess he gets a shot at playing time his 1st season.

There's a lot of buzz about this one. Thanks go to Assistant Coaches Derek Jones and Rick Petri for landing this commitment.

[devildeac]

Devilsden is reporting that DT Edgar Cerenord (6'2" 285 lbs) from Florida has committed to Coach Cut's program.

Important addition at a position of need; I'd guess he gets a shot at playing time his 1st season.

Merlindevildog91 sent me this link about him:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/128221/edgar-cerenord

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Merlindevildog91 sent me this link about him:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/128221/edgar-cerenord
Good size and mean looking! Welcome to Duke!

[devildeac]

Good size and mean looking! Welcome to Duke!

Hope he's hungry (probably goes without saying at 6-1 and 290), too, and likes snacking on QB and RB for lunch, dinner or even between meals.

[Bob Green]

This is huge news as building talented depth along the defensive line is an obvious need. Cerenord and redshirt freshman DT Mike Ramsay are players who could compete for snaps in 2014.

[CameronBornAndBred]

This is huge news as building talented depth along the defensive line is an obvious need. Cerenord and redshirt freshman DT Mike Ramsay are players who could compete for snaps in 2014.
What about the guys we have that redshirted this season? Isn't there someone that will be available this year that has had a year to get used to the college game?

[Bob Green]

What about the guys we have that redshirted this season? Isn't there someone that will be available this year that has had a year to get used to the college game?

Yes, DT Mike Ramsay redshirted in 2013 so he will be a redshirt freshman in 2014.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Yes, DT Mike Ramsay redshirted in 2013 so he will be a redshirt freshman in 2014.
I'd rather use a guy who redshirted already than send a guy in straight out of high school, especially a DT. Let those guys spend a year in the weight room and working out with the scout team. Then we get four solid years from them, bigger, stronger, faster, instead of maybe three and a half.

[roywhite]

I'd rather use a guy who redshirted already than send a guy in straight out of high school, especially a DT. Let those guys spend a year in the weight room and working out with the scout team. Then we get four solid years from them, bigger, stronger, faster, instead of maybe three and a half.

Yeah, good considerations, but the main thing is for the coaches and the prospect to be on the same page about when they might see playing time. Some kids are more physically mature than others and have the requisite skills to play their first year; in addition, the coaches may identify early playing time as a possibility, or even as an attraction. In this case, Cerenord is reportedly bench pressing somewhere in the 380# range, and was interested in early playing time, which the Duke coaches apparently indicated could be available.

It's a case-by-case decision, depending on the prospect's readiness. Sounds likely we'll see Mr. Cerenord on the field this coming season.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Yeah, good considerations, but the main thing is for the coaches and the prospect to be on the same page about when they might see playing time. Some kids are more physically mature than others and have the requisite skills to play their first year; in addition, the coaches may identify early playing time as a possibility, or even as an attraction. In this case, Cerenord is reportedly bench pressing somewhere in the 380# range, and was interested in early playing time, which the Duke coaches apparently indicated could be available.

It's a case-by-case decision, depending on the prospect's readiness. Sounds likely we'll see Mr. Cerenord on the field this coming season.
Oh, believe me, I have all the faith in our coaching staff. I know Cut sent some guys out earlier than maybe even he would have liked when he first showed up, but we needed that speed and talent on the field. Now, if he chooses to put a guy out there early, I have no doubt it is because the coaches feel he is also ready. I just relish the thought of a big guy getting even bigger, though, and more adjusted to the speed of a faster game. I am looking forward to seeing Cerenord and the guys who DID redshirt this season. So many names that we were excited about 2 years ago will finally get to see some field time. I guess we'll get our sneak peek in the spring game. :D

[Bob Green]

So many names that we were excited about 2 years ago will finally get to see some field time. I guess we'll get our sneak peek in the spring game. :D

We are getting off topic here, but what the heck...

Others on defense in addition to Ramsay include: Evrett Edwards, Quay Mann, Dom McDonald, Chris Holmes, Phillip Carter, Jake Kite.

On offense: Joseph Ajeigbe, T.J Douglas, Terrance Alls, Parker Boehme, Austin Davis, Gabe Brandner, Sterling Korona.

And of course, Thomas Sirk and Tanner Stone who will be sophomores but they still haven't played a down at Duke due to injuries.

I'm certain I missed someone.

[chrishoke]

We are getting off topic here, but what the heck...

Others on defense in addition to Ramsay include: Evrett Edwards, Quay Mann, Dom McDonald, Chris Holmes, Phillip Carter, Jake Kite.

On offense: Joseph Ajeigbe, T.J Douglas, Terrance Alls, Parker Boehme, Austin Davis, Gabe Brandner, Sterling Korona.

And of course, Thomas Sirk and Tanner Stone who will be sophomores but they still haven't played a down at Duke due to injuries.

I'm certain I missed someone.

Is that the most freshmen fb players that Duke has redshirted in a single class?

[Olympic Fan]

Defensive line has been the one place Cut gas struggled to recruit.

The last month or so may turn that around. He already has three recruits for 2015 and two of them are defensive linemen -- DE Zach Morris and DT Brandon Boyce. It's hard to assess offer lists when a player commits so early, but Morris is a three-star and Boyce was first-team all-star in Florida (4-A) as a junior.

Now Cerenord -- a three-star DT (who misses being four-star on the ESPN rankings by one point). He had 17 FBS offers (according to ESPN), including Tennessee, Arkansas, Cincinnati, Purdue, Indiana, Central Florida, FIU, South Florida, East Carolina and Wake Forest. Not quite the top tier, but not far below it. He was first-team, all-state in 5-A in Florida.

It will be interesting to see if Cerenord will play as a true frosh. DT isn't our strongest position, but we do have returning starter Jamal Bruce, who will be a fifth-year senior and was our best DT this past season. Also, Carlos Wray, a rising junior, and redshirt soph AJ Wolf saw a lot of action last season. Kelin Rayner did not play much as a redshirt freshman, but that might be because he's making the unusual transition from LB to DT. Since coming to Duke he's upped his weight from 255 to 270 pounds.

Bruce and Wray will start spring as the starters, backed up by Wolf and Rayner ... but Mike Ramsey has a real chance to work himself into the rotation this spring. See how the young guys look after spring before we start talking about Cerenord playing right away.

The situation at DE is even better -- we have three guys who started multiple games returning ... four if Jamal Wallace is able to make a full recovery. Plus there are some young guys at end (Allen Jackson, Britton Grier and Michael Mann) who have a chance to play there.

[Bob Green]

The situation at DE is even better -- we have three guys who started multiple games returning ... four if Jamal Wallace is able to make a full recovery. Plus there are some young guys at end (Allen Jackson, Britton Grier and Michael Mann) who have a chance to play there.

Oly,

Wasn't Jamal Wallace seeing most of his action at DT in 2013 prior to being injured? Overall, I agree with you 100%, the situation on the defensive line is looking up.

[Olympic Fan]

Oly,

Wasn't Jamal Wallace seeing most of his action at DT in 2013 prior to being injured? Overall, I agree with you 100%, the situation on the defensive line is looking up.

He's swung back and forth between DT and DE ... He came here as a DE and played there exclusively in 2011. He was still there in spring and preseason 2012, but was shifted to DT as an emergency replacement there after Jamal Bruce was hurt just before the opening game. Wallace started five games at DT and played in 10 games, almost exclusively at DT. Last season, he was listed as a DE. He was only able to play in five games before he was hurt. He played a little DT, but most of his work was at DE.

I don't want to mislead anybody -- Wallace suffered a severe injury and there's a good chance he won't be back next season. But if he does make it back, he's a versatile lineman who can help at DE or DT.

[-bdbd]

I strongly agree with the comments about the desirability of redshirting Freshmen, in general, to build them up in the weightroom and training areas before the clock starts ticking on their four years of playing eligibility. That has been one of the traditional areas of weakness for Duke, where we were so far behind in raw talent that our best recruits were always immediately needed on the field, and so many of our best players missed that extra year of development that kids at other schools seemed to universally enjoy. But in Cerenord's case my understanding is that it was part of our direct recruiting pitch as we got re-engaged with him, after somewhat dropping out for a while, that he could have immediate playing time if he came to Duke. Hard to go back now.

BTW, if you look at his offer sheet, this is a really big "get" for Cut and staff. Probably the most sought-after DT that we've signed in several years. Congrats to the staff, and to Mr. Cerenord! The momentum keeps rolling!!

[SoCalDukeFan]

This is from a football site tweet

Keep in mind this wk the 2007 Scout HS QB ranks: 1.Clausen. 14. Cam. 52. Foles. 58. Tannehill. 67. Russell Wilson

SoCal

[Greg_Newton]

Welcome to the final member of the 2014 class, Trevon Lee! Huge get. Picked us over offers from a few small schools like Oregon, USC, Stanford, Clemson and Auburn.

Highlights (http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/669479/highlights/99257379).

http://247sports.com/Player/Trevon-Lee-23194

[roywhite]

Welcome to the final member of the 2014 class, Trevon Lee! Huge get. Picked us over offers from a few small schools like Oregon, USC, Stanford, Clemson and Auburn.

Highlights (http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/669479/highlights/99257379).

http://247sports.com/Player/Trevon-Lee-23194

Excellent news; thanks for posting.

Sounds like a kid who might be ready to see playing time as a freshman and is a needed potential playmaker down the road, with Crowder being a senior.

[loran16]

By my count, that puts us at 14 Scout.com 3-star recruits out of 19 commits. Easily our deepest class ever (previous high was 11 3-star or betters).

Let's see if this year's success catapults next year even higher.

[-jk]

When's signing day? Sometime soon, I think.

-jk

[loran16]

When's signing day? Sometime soon, I think.

-jk

Wednesday. Duke's class is done for next year.

[roywhite]

When's signing day? Sometime soon, I think.

-jk

Yeah, this Weds. Feb 5, as loran also notes.

What is college football's National Signing Day? An FAQ for the casual fan (http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2014/2/3/5364380/national-signing-day-2014-college-football-recruiting?utm_source=sbnation&utm_medium=nextclicks&utm_campaign=articlebottom)

It's practically an official holiday in SEC country.

[devildeac]

When's signing day? Sometime soon, I think.

-jk

My wife just told me it is February 5 based on an email she got from the Iron Dukes today.

[OldPhiKap]

Yeah, this Weds. Feb 5, as loran also notes.

What is college football's National Signing Day? An FAQ for the casual fan (http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2014/2/3/5364380/national-signing-day-2014-college-football-recruiting?utm_source=sbnation&utm_medium=nextclicks&utm_campaign=articlebottom)

It's practically an official holiday in SEC country.

"Practically?"

Signing Day, Confederate Memorial Day, Opening Day of Deer Season. Schools are closed in SEC markets.

[mattman91]

ESPN gives Trevon 4 stars!

[chrishoke]

ESPN gives Trevon 4 stars!

ESPN also rates him #235 in their top 300. Possibly the highest rated Duke football recruit of the modern era. And on top of that, as very good student!

[Olympic Fan]

By my count, that puts us at 14 Scout.com 3-star recruits out of 19 commits. Easily our deepest class ever (previous high was 11 3-star or betters).

Let's see if this year's success catapults next year even higher.

Scout's ratings are a joke. Chris Taylor -- a first-team all-state WR in Florida is a two-star? Anthony Boone, Walt Canty, Perry Simmons, Byron Fields and Breon Borders were two stars?

I'd prefer to use the ESPN rankings ... ESPN has Duke with four four-star recruits in this class: WR Trevon Lee, QB Nicodem Pierre, S Xavier Carmichael (although they list him as a LB, he played safety in high school and expects to play safety at Duke), and RB Shaun Wilson. Every other player in the class is listed as a three-star prospect. Three players come in at 79 (in the 100-point rating system) -- just one point below four-star status.

BTW: Scout lists Carmichael as a two-star prospect.

It's a much better rated class than Duke has landed in the modern era. The team that won 10 games and won the ACC Coastal Division title included two four-star players -- punter Will Monday and Ohio State transfer Jeremy Cash. Cut's only other four-star recruit in his tenure was Desmond Scott.

For the record, Duke's last five-star recruit was DT Vince Oghobaase in 2005. He became a good, but not great player. Interesting that Duke landed another defender from Texas in that class. Michael Brown was a two-star recruit at LB ... after he changed his name to Michael Tauiliili, he became a first-team All-ACC player.

Just goes to show that you can't always count on the rankings. Cut just won a division title without ever landing a class that ranked in the top 10 of the ACC.

I'd rather trust his judgment than the rating services.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Welcome to the final member of the 2014 class, Trevon Lee! Huge get. Picked us over offers from a few small schools like Oregon, USC, Stanford, Clemson and Auburn.

Highlights (http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/669479/highlights/99257379).

http://247sports.com/Player/Trevon-Lee-23194

Have we used up all of the scholarships or is there no one out there who is uncommitted and considering Duke?

SoCal

[Acymetric]

Have we used up all of the scholarships or is there no one out there who is uncommitted and considering Duke?

SoCal

No more schollies, we had a pretty big class last year I believe and very few guys graduating this year so its a small class but with plenty of quality!

[roywhite]

Just goes to show that you can't always count on the rankings. Cut just won a division title without ever landing a class that ranked in the top 10 of the ACC.

I'd rather trust his judgment than the rating services.

Yes, I think there is often too much weight given to the star rankings. And Cut not only discovers some under-rated prospects, he develops them.

What we haven't seen much of at Duke are players that are drafted by the NFL or are able to get much playing time in the league. There are exceptions, but Duke is far behind other ACC schools in producing NFL players. There may well be some NFL talent on this current roster (my amateur guess is that Cash, Crowder, and Tomlinson can be NFL draft choices and play in the league) and Duke's increased success along with Cut's ability should lead to more NFL type talents coming to Durham. Just another positive development for this football program.

[jafarr1]

No more schollies, we had a pretty big class last year I believe and very few guys graduating this year so its a small class but with plenty of quality!

Yep, this class is full. Couldn't agree more about the quality in the class.

It's early, but next year's class looks to be even better than this one.

[jafarr1]

What we haven't seen much of at Duke are players that are drafted by the NFL or are able to get much playing time in the league. There are exceptions, but Duke is far behind other ACC schools in producing NFL players. There may well be some NFL talent on this current roster (my amateur guess is that Cash, Crowder, and Tomlinson can be NFL draft choices and play in the league) and Duke's increased success along with Cut's ability should lead to more NFL type talents coming to Durham. Just another positive development for this football program.

If Cockrell puts up a good performance at the NFL combine, especially in the 40, he'll get drafted.

[loran16]

Scout's ratings are a joke. Chris Taylor -- a first-team all-state WR in Florida is a two-star? Anthony Boone, Walt Canty, Perry Simmons, Byron Fields and Breon Borders were two stars?

I'd prefer to use the ESPN rankings ... ESPN has Duke with four four-star recruits in this class: WR Trevon Lee, QB Nicodem Pierre, S Xavier Carmichael (although they list him as a LB, he played safety in high school and expects to play safety at Duke), and RB Shaun Wilson. Every other player in the class is listed as a three-star prospect. Three players come in at 79 (in the 100-point rating system) -- just one point below four-star status.

BTW: Scout lists Carmichael as a two-star prospect.


First of all, picking and choosing the rating systems that more like your guys isn't really using a rating system as much as you cherry picking to make yourself feel better. Scout's rankings are what they are - obviously they're not perfect, but there's more to projections than being first team all state.




It's a much better rated class than Duke has landed in the modern era. The team that won 10 games and won the ACC Coastal Division title included two four-star players -- punter Will Monday and Ohio State transfer Jeremy Cash. Cut's only other four-star recruit in his tenure was Desmond Scott.

For the record, Duke's last five-star recruit was DT Vince Oghobaase in 2005. He became a good, but not great player. Interesting that Duke landed another defender from Texas in that class. Michael Brown was a two-star recruit at LB ... after he changed his name to Michael Tauiliili, he became a first-team All-ACC player.

Just goes to show that you can't always count on the rankings. Cut just won a division title without ever landing a class that ranked in the top 10 of the ACC.

I'd rather trust his judgment than the rating services.

I mean listen again, these recruiting services are far from perfect. But while gems can be found among two stars or lower three stars, the best prospects are MORE COMMONLY found among the guys rated as such by the recruiting services. Getting more guys rated as such increases your chances.

Oghobasse was pretty great by the way, but was just constantly hurt.

[Mike Corey]

The best way to gauge the talent, on paper, is not through respective rankings systems but through college offer lists, IMO.

Trevon Lee's is impressive: Stanford, South Carolina, Wisconsin, Mississippi, Louisville, etc.

Nicodem Pierre had offers from Clemson, Wisconsin, Nebraska and Louisville.

Johnathan Lloyd's is perhaps most impressive at all: Ohio State, Notre Dame, Florida, South Carolina, Clemson, etc.

~

As alluded to above, Cutcliffe is also developing the talent he's identifying.

Duke football is being built to win championships, not to piddle around.

It's a very exciting time to be a Blue Devil football fan.

[RepoMan]

Just goes to show that you can't always count on the rankings. Cut just won a division title without ever landing a class that ranked in the top 10 of the ACC.

I'd rather trust his judgment than the rating services.

This is very true. Va Tech has probably had as much or more success than any team in the conference over the past decade, and they have never been at the top of the recruiting ratings. They have done a great job and recruiting and developing under-regarded in state talent. One example that provides a timely reminder:

Scout.com assessed Kam Chancellor as a two-star recruit (at QB!) before he accepted a scholarship offer from Virginia Tech.


Based on what we have seen, there is every reason to believe that Cut and his team have the same ability. At the same time, getting higher rated recruits is definitely not a bad thing.

[Native]

The best way to gauge the talent, on paper, is not through respective rankings systems but through college offer lists, IMO.

Trevon Lee's is impressive: Stanford, South Carolina, Wisconsin, Mississippi, Louisville, etc.

Nicodem Pierre had offers from Clemson, Wisconsin, Nebraska and Louisville.

Johnathan Lloyd's is perhaps most impressive at all: Ohio State, Notre Dame, Florida, South Carolina, Clemson, etc.

~

As alluded to above, Cutcliffe is also developing the talent he's identifying.

Duke football is being built to win championships, not to piddle around.

It's a very exciting time to be a Blue Devil football fan.

This times a billion.

While this class is relatively small, it's packed with quality for us. An absolute home run for Cut and company.

While I've been at Duke, I always get asked by incoming freshmen, "Do people actually go to the games?" For the first time, my answer can unequivocally be "Yes." A very, very exciting time for Duke football.

[Dukehky]

Nico Pierre.... I'm really high on this young fella. I get in arguments with one of my friends over who will be the QB Pierre or Lloyd. I think Lloyd will play WR, but man, Nico had a bad senior year, but he will be a top 3 athlete on the team with a rocket arm.

[johnb]

This may be both obvious and wrong (hard to do both at the same time), but

It seems to me that it would be harder to rank high school talent in football than in basketball. While both are team sports, there are enough isolation plays during the season and enough AAU all-star competition in basketball that a skilled eyeball can efficiently sort out who's top 10, top 50, etc. Intangibles remain, but I'd guess that a talent scout from Mars could watch guys like Okafor and Parker for a few minutes of a hs basketball game and quickly see that they're elite talents. Obviously, it's still imperfect, both in regards to the cross sectional assessment and the prediction of a trajectory, but my hunch is that the Duke coaches are pretty good at predicting the development of their recruits.

While a football scout can assess who looks like a football player and who's got the numbers (times, weights, catches, yards), the presentation of individual players depends heavily on their teammates, coaches, systems, opponents, videotape, rumors, etc. Further, there are so many football players, and recruiting/scouting tends to be very local (so if few media types hang out in rural Virginia, and Virginia Tech owns rural Virginia, the team could be very good with a bunch of 2/3 star players), and all the games occur at the same time (so any individual scout can only see a small number of actual games each year--so few scouts will attend games in which there's only a single recruitable athlete)), and elite players are often competing against non-elite opponents (which can work for or against a recruit), and teens develop muscle mass and maturity at different rates (which might particularly affect the rating of linemen and linebackers), etc, etc. So a future great player who plays for a mediocre team outside of a major market and who plays against non-elite talent is only going to stick out if he looks like Hercules or has a particularly effective champion.

It is true that top teams tend to stay at the top partly because they get lots of 4 and 5 star players, but the emphasis there would be on a LOT of players to compensate for the uncertainty in recruitment (and injuries, academics, etc).

[-bdbd]

Nico Pierre.... I'm really high on this young fella. I get in arguments with one of my friends over who will be the QB Pierre or Lloyd. I think Lloyd will play WR, but man, Nico had a bad senior year, but he will be a top 3 athlete on the team with a rocket arm.

I agree. While still to be worked out, and obviously Cut will be good to his word with giving Lloyd the chance to make it as a QB, both of these guys are such stud athletes. I really like how this class wrapped up, with a much-needed 3-star DT (who had multiple SEC and Big-10 offers) and a 4-star WR, also with a ton of major D1 offers... REALLY good time to be a Devil FB fan. And next year looking really promising. Momentum is a very nice thing to have! :D

[CameronBornAndBred]

This is very true. Va Tech has probably had as much or more success than any team in the conference over the past decade, and they have never been at the top of the recruiting ratings. They have done a great job and recruiting and developing under-regarded in state talent.
An interesting article posted just today about VT and their recent recruiting, and a correlation to their recent lack of success. (Although many programs would love to have their lack of success.)

While recruiting classes are tough to judge when they are first completed — despite the sportswriting industry’s overwhelming love of doing so — a glance back at the Hokies’ 2010 and ’11 classes a few years later reveals a swoon that appears to be catching up to Virginia Tech.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/colleges/va_tech/article_974b22fa-8d38-11e3-9869-0017a43b2370.html

[Olympic Fan]

First of all, picking and choosing the rating systems that more like your guys isn't really using a rating system as much as you cherry picking to make yourself feel better. Scout's rankings are what they are - obviously they're not perfect, but there's more to projections than being first team all state.


My point is that scout CONSISTENTLY underrates Duke players -- far more than any other recruiting service.

I suspect that there is a bias at work -- in basketball, when Duke lands a kid, his ratings often climb (actually, they almost always climb). In football, a kid commits to Duke and his ratings fall -- more so on scout than any other service.

There is a logic to this -- Duke basketball has been ultra successful and it's likely that when K wants a kid, he's pretty good. On the other hand, for almost two decades, Duke football was a wasteland and talented kids went to Duke to disappear.

I can remember the fate of Nate Krill, a DE/LB from Virginia. In the summer of 1996, he was touted as one of the nation's best prospects. He was being recruited by every top program from Ohio State, Michigan to Alabama and Texas and Penn State. One recruiting publication put him on the cover and suggested that he was the best prospect on the East Coast. Then he committed to Duke just before his senior year of high school. Krill went on to have a terrific senior season -- setting records for sacks and tackles and leading his team to a great record. Yet, somehow his rating dropped. The same magazine that had ranked him the best prospect on the East Coast listed him as the No. 15 prospect in Virginia in their signing day edition (injuries ended up derailing a promising career).

With a few exceptions, the guys who write for the recruiting services aren't qualified as scouts. What they do is follow the recruiting targets of certain established programs. That can lead to gaps. The rise of Northwestern in the mid-90s (when the 'Cats won back-to-back Big Ten titles) was never forecast by the recruiting services. The rise of Wisconsin under Barry Alverez was completely missed in recruiting circles. The rise of Duke football under Cutcliffe has been accomplished without creating a ripple on the recruiting scene -- even this year's class, the best of the century for the Devils, is not going to be rated in the top half of the ACC ... maybe not in the top 10.

I'm sure there have been 4 and 5 star players that Cut would have liked to add over the years, but couldn't recruit because of Duke's low status in the football hierarchy. He's had to make do with undervalued 2 and 3 star guys. He's done a great job of that. Now that the world of 4 star and maybe 5 star players is opening up with his success, I'm hoping he proves equally adept at picking the right guys.

I think an interesting test case will be Jonathan Lloyd. He does have a great offer list, but that's because most of the great programs recruited him as a WR or a DB. Cut recruited him as a QB. Lloyd himself said that he was regarded as a 4-star receiver, but only a 3-star QB. It's possible he ends up at WR or DB at Duke, but I guarantee you he will get a fair shot at QB. With Lee and Taylor in the class, there won't be pressure to play him at WR right away.

Who knows how good he will be. Russell Wilson (a guy Duke recruited) was another prospect who was more highly valued as an athlete than as a quarterback. How'd that work out.

One final note: I saw a breakdown of the two Super Bowl rosters based on their rankings out of high school. While there were a few 5, 4 and 2 star prospects on the list, the great majority of Seahawks and Broncos were three-star prospects coming out of high school.

[duke09hms]

Doesn't it make sense then to use the 247sports ratings, which compile a composite from the different rating services? From there, all 18 of our recruits are 3-star recruits, which would be the best Cutcliffe recruiting class to date.

[jafarr1]

First of all, picking and choosing the rating systems that more like your guys isn't really using a rating system as much as you cherry picking to make yourself feel better. Scout's rankings are what they are - obviously they're not perfect, but there's more to projections than being first team all state.

There are obviously more to projections than being all-state. But if there are 230 WRs better than Chris Taylor, I'll eat my hat. I'll make similar statements about a number of Scout's other rankings. I'm not arguing Scout should bump any of our guys to four-stars, but some of their position rankings are just way off, and they are never off on the high side on Duke recruits.

If you want to live and die by a set of star rankings, just make sure it's not Scout's.



I mean listen again, these recruiting services are far from perfect. But while gems can be found among two stars or lower three stars, the best prospects are MORE COMMONLY found among the guys rated as such by the recruiting services. Getting more guys rated as such increases your chances.


When the rating services pick guys as four- and five-star guys, they do a good job of identifying players who have the best chance to evolve into the play-makers. If you pick randomly from the three-star recruits, they will have a lower chance of being one of those guys.

However, it is also important to recognize that three-stars encompass a wide range of players. Jeremy Cash, Kelby Brown, and Jamison Crowder were all three-stars. So were some other guys who never saw the field for Duke. It's also important to recognize that recruiting services are not perfect and have their biases ($$$). IMO, that makes it impossible to look at a class' average rating and come to a conclusion about the class strength. Duke isn't choosing randomly. The question - and a valid one to ask - is whether we're getting the right three-stars.

Look, I'm not saying to ignore the ratings, but to look at ratings across multiple sites (except Scout), and to look at them as part of the bigger picture. Read articles about the players. Watch their highlight films. Check out their offer lists to see what other schools believe in them. See if they make the all-county and all-state teams. All of that is valuable information.

I've spent far too much time doing all of that, and I feel safe in saying that this is our best class in a long time.

[Listen to Quants]

Welcome to the final member of the 2014 class, Trevon Lee! Huge get. Picked us over offers from a few small schools like Oregon, USC, Stanford, Clemson and Auburn.

Highlights (http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/669479/highlights/99257379).

http://247sports.com/Player/Trevon-Lee-23194

Well played. Had me going there with "... offers from a few small schools" I'm thinking, oh well, can't every day be Xmas. Then the zingers. Thanks, I like to smile.

[wilson]

...if there are 230 WRs better than Chris Taylor, I'll eat my hat...Doesn't count if it's one of these.
3861

[budwom]

I remember Nate Krill....tragically eaten by a whale if I recall correctly...

[wilson]

I remember Nate Krill....tragically eaten by a whale if I recall correctly...I remember the tragedy as well. "This scampi really happening," I said to myself.

[johnb]

An interesting article posted just today about VT and their recent recruiting, and a correlation to their recent lack of success. (Although many programs would love to have their lack of success.)


http://www.roanoke.com/sports/colleges/va_tech/article_974b22fa-8d38-11e3-9869-0017a43b2370.html


The article is interesting.

Vatech's 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes are lamented for their weakness, but nine of their recruits from those 2 years were rated as 4 star players. Nine? That may not be as strong as Florida State, Oklahoma, Alabama, etc, but it's a cut above a school like Duke.

Those two classes are seen as weak because of the relative paucity of all-conference selections. The article goes on to explain that half of those classes don't play for Vatech anymore, mostly because of academic failures, failures to qualify in the first place, and dismissals. Further, they expect to have to "prune" current players to make way for the incoming class. So even with half their players not making it, they're still going to cut scholarships in order to bring in the current crop. That may be why some of these football powerhouses are able to sign such enormous classes--lots will be gone soon. Duke is stuck with the reality that their players stick around to graduate (which may just work out better for a variety of reasons).

[Olympic Fan]

FWIW, current ACC rankings:

scout ranks this Duke class 14th and dead last in the new ACC.

espn ranks Duke 11th (ahead of Georgia Tech, Syracuse and Wake Forest) ...although espn includes Lee in their Duke database, the story with the ACC rankings does not include Lee, except to suggest that if Duke gets him, it could make a difference. We'll have to wait and see if he moves Duke up.

rivals ranks Duke as tied with Wake for 12th ... but they also include Maryland as 14th in the ACC rankings. I suspect if they listed Louisville instead, then Duke would be tied for 13th and last.

[jafarr1]

FWIW, current ACC rankings:

scout ranks this Duke class 14th and dead last in the new ACC.

espn ranks Duke 11th (ahead of Georgia Tech, Syracuse and Wake Forest) ...although espn includes Lee in their Duke database, the story with the ACC rankings does not include Lee, except to suggest that if Duke gets him, it could make a difference. We'll have to wait and see if he moves Duke up.

rivals ranks Duke as tied with Wake for 12th ... but they also include Maryland as 14th in the ACC rankings. I suspect if they listed Louisville instead, then Duke would be tied for 13th and last.

Comparing average ratings, which takes Duke's small class size out of the equation, lifts Duke towards the middle of the ACC on most lists: 11th on Scout, 10th on Rivals, and 8th on 247.

[killerleft]

I remember Nate Krill....tragically eaten by a whale if I recall correctly...

Partly true. CNN reported that he escaped on the back of a Sea Monkey. They blow-holed their way to freedom! I keep expecting the movie, or at least a book.

[OldPhiKap]

I remember Nate Krill....tragically eaten by a whale if I recall correctly...


I remember the tragedy as well. "This scampi really happening," I said to myself.


Partly true. CNN reported that he escaped on the back of a Sea Monkey. They blow-holed their way to freedom! I keep expecting the movie, or at least a book.

This all sounds very fishy to me. I think y'all are just floundering around here

[wilson]

This all sounds very fishy to me. I think y'all are just floundering around hereGill-ty as charged.

[budwom]

The entire event was definitely a fluke, seemingly without porpoise.

[devildeac]

You folks need to scale back your posts a bit and fin-ish discussing our fine school of recruits.

[OldPhiKap]

Any idea of how many we redshirted from last year's class, and how many may be redshirts from the new class?

[PDDuke85]

You folks need to scale back your posts a bit and fin-ish discussing our fine school of recruits.

Oh my cod, you're all giving me a haddock

[wilko]

Oh my cod, you're all giving me a haddock

Egad, I've been cornobbled.

[johnb]

espn has a review article from the players who were named All-SEC this past season. The SEC is no ACC, but it's still telling.
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfrecruiting/on-the-trail/post/_/id/52143/all-sec-where-they-stood-as-recruits

15/22 were rated in the 70's, with about 8 getting 4 stars, 2 getting 5 stars, and about 8 getting 3 stars (the article was a little vague about a handful of the players in regards to their star number), and it didn't look at kickers or special teams. I was struck by the fact that only 2 of the 22 were 5 stars (including Jadeveon Clowney, that adorable scamp, who was the overall top recruit his year. Johnny Manziel, otoh, was a 3 star player out of hs).

[Double DD]

espn has a review article from the players who were named All-SEC this past season. The SEC is no ACC, but it's still telling.
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfrecruiting/on-the-trail/post/_/id/52143/all-sec-where-they-stood-as-recruits

15/22 were rated in the 70's, with about 8 getting 4 stars, 2 getting 5 stars, and about 8 getting 3 stars (the article was a little vague about a handful of the players in regards to their star number), and it didn't look at kickers or special teams. I was struck by the fact that only 2 of the 22 were 5 stars (including Jadeveon Clowney, that adorable scamp, who was the overall top recruit his year. Johnny Manziel, otoh, was a 3 star player out of hs).

If you use 24/7 Composite Rankings, and the AP All-SEC teams, there are 13 5-star recruits on the 1st and 2nd teams, out of 57 players (lots of ties). That's 23% of the players. Considering how much smaller the pool of 5 star recruits is, that's pretty telling.

[budwom]

Any idea of how many we redshirted from last year's class, and how many may be redshirts from the new class?

Substantial majority were redshirted last year and the same will happen this year. Just about all linemen and LBs I can think of.
Chance for some skill position guys to play, but with so many good DB frosh playing last year, it may be primarily WRs who have a chance to play as true frosh.
QBs will redshirt, too...

[OldPhiKap]

Substantial majority were redshirted last year and the same will happen this year. Just about all linemen and LBs I can think of.
Chance for some skill position guys to play, but with so many good DB frosh playing last year, it may be primarily WRs who have a chance to play as true frosh.
QBs will redshirt, too...

Thanks, budwom.

Depth -- what a novel idea!

I hope we can rebuild the offensive line given the graduations we will see there. Agree, lots of young DB experience last year. We seem to be doing well in the skill positions too.

[budwom]

Thanks, budwom.

Depth -- what a novel idea!

I hope we can rebuild the offensive line given the graduations we will see there. Agree, lots of young DB experience last year. We seem to be doing well in the skill positions too.

Cerenord is a 290lb DT who could see time next year at DT given our relative weakness there.

I think OL is in great shape...Cut's been recruiting five or so really good OLs each year and redshirting them. Lots of good talent there...Cody Robinson and Lucas Patrick are good
300lb kids ready to go, Patrick took Simmons' OT spot at the bowl after Simmons hurt his knee...Tanner Stone was expected to get time at OT a year ago before getting hurt.
We're VERY deep along the OL, bringing in big kids, redshirting them and making them bigger and stronger. I'd say we have half a dozen guys right now who could play well if needed to
augment the starting lineup...

[Bob Green]

I hope we can rebuild the offensive line given the graduations we will see there.

The offensive line will remain a strength. Dave Harding (LG) and Perry Simmons (RT) graduate; however, Lucas Patrick and Cody Robinson will step right into the rotation so five of our top seven lineman, in terms of snaps played in 2013, will return. The unknown is Tanner Stone and how he recovers from his broken ankle/surgery. A healthy Tanner Stone at right tackle allows Lucas Patrick to return to playing left guard, which is his strongest position. Patrick moved to right tackle when Perry Simmons was injured during the ACCCG.

The two most likely scenarios for starting line up are:

1. Matt Skura (C), Cody Robinson (LG), Laken Tomlinson (RG), Takoby Cofield (LT), Lucas Patrick (RT)

2. Matt Skura (C), Lucas Patrick (LG), Laken Tomlinson (RG), Takoby Cofield (LT), Tanner Stone (RT)

In addition to the six lineman listed above, depth will be provided by redshirt juniors Marcus Aprahamian, Carson Ginn, Sam Marshall; redshirt sophomore Casey Blaser; and redshirt freshmen Austin Davis, Gabe Bradner, Sterling Korona. We also have five true freshmen offensive linemen coming in who will all redshirt in 2014.

I probably forgot to list someone, but my point is made. Offensive line will remain a strength in 2014.

[nocilla]

espn has a review article from the players who were named All-SEC this past season. The SEC is no ACC, but it's still telling.
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfrecruiting/on-the-trail/post/_/id/52143/all-sec-where-they-stood-as-recruits

15/22 were rated in the 70's, with about 8 getting 4 stars, 2 getting 5 stars, and about 8 getting 3 stars (the article was a little vague about a handful of the players in regards to their star number), and it didn't look at kickers or special teams. I was struck by the fact that only 2 of the 22 were 5 stars (including Jadeveon Clowney, that adorable scamp, who was the overall top recruit his year. Johnny Manziel, otoh, was a 3 star player out of hs).

They did one for the All-ACC as well. http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/67010/all-acc-where-they-stood-as-recruits

Only one 5* but eleven 4*. Duke's Crowder, Tomlinson, and Brown were 3*. BC's Andre Williams was a 2*. Two Offensive linemen and the two kickers don't list any stars. I don't know if that means they were not highly regarded enough to get a star ranking or some other reason.

[Dev11]

GoDuke's signing day page: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209389062&DB_OEM_ID=4200

18 verbal commitments as of yesterday, 18 signed NLI today. It's a small class, but it's not replacing an especially large class. On to spring practice!

[jafarr1]

Substantial majority were redshirted last year and the same will happen this year. Just about all linemen and LBs I can think of.
Chance for some skill position guys to play, but with so many good DB frosh playing last year, it may be primarily WRs who have a chance to play as true frosh.
QBs will redshirt, too...

We red-shirted 15 of the 20 commits from last year's class, including 8 of our top 10 players by Rivals' rankings.

Barring injuries forcing our hand, the true freshmen most likely to contribute this year include Edgar Cerenord (DT), Trevon Lee (WR) and Chris Taylor (WR). Alonzo Saxton could slip into the DB rotation, but he'll have to beat out a number of talented red-shirts. If Cutcliffe chooses to keep our RB rotation four-deep, he'll have to play Shaun Wilson because of Duncan's suspension.

[budwom]

That sounds about right...hope to see some of the redshirt frosh step up, too...

[GGLC]

That sounds about right...hope to see some of the redshirt frosh step up, too...

Which of the redshirt freshmen are you most optimistic about their chances of contributing, Buddy?

[johnb]

A very positive article from Fox sports:

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-football/story/national-signing-day-2014-duke-football-recruiting-david-cutcliffe-best-class-020414

[53n206]

Lee is fantastic. Like the QB also. Wonder about the other team's coaching though--single coverage!

[budwom]

Which of the redshirt freshmen are you most optimistic about their chances of contributing, Buddy?

I really don't know what to expect, since we don't get any meaningful info concerning who looked good in practice. Evrett Edwards
was touted at CB, yet other less heralded frosh DBs played this past year and Edwards didn't. We could use more good linebackers, so
maybe Dominic McDonald, but I don't know how well he's playing either. Certainly everyone wants to get a look at QB Sirk, now a redshirt
soph, who hasn't played yet due to injury. We need some help at DT, so Ramsay and Rayner have opportunities there...

Ajeigbe is a running back who should see time since Duncan can't play this year....

[GGLC]

I really don't know what to expect, since we don't get any meaningful info concerning who looked good in practice. Evrett Edwards
was touted at CB, yet other less heralded frosh DBs played this past year and Edwards didn't. We could use more good linebackers, so
maybe Dominic McDonald, but I don't know how well he's playing either. Certainly everyone wants to get a look at QB Sirk, now a redshirt
soph, who hasn't played yet due to injury. We need some help at DT, so Ramsay and Rayner have opportunities there...

Ajeigbe is a running back who should see time since Duncan can't play this year....

Thanks. I'll be looking forward to seeing how they integrate themselves. What is Sirk's role expected to be on the depth chart?

[Bob Green]

What is Sirk's role expected to be on the depth chart?

Conventional wisdom, for whatever it is worth, says Sirk will be the #2 QB and primary back-up to Anthony Boone, which will free Brandon Connette up to play all over the place (RB, TE, WR) in the Phantom role. I certainly expect Connette to continue to see snaps at QB in short yardage situations because he is so effective as a power runner. Although, losing Duncan to suspension could impact the "Connette Package" as Duncan and the graduated Thompson were the primary power blockers for Connette on those TD runs.

I expect Sirk will see a significant number of snaps in order to prepare him to be the #1 QB in 2015.

[GGLC]

Conventional wisdom, for whatever it is worth, says Sirk will be the #2 QB and primary back-up to Anthony Boone, which will free Brandon Connette up to play all over the place (RB, TE, WR) in the Phantom role. I certainly expect Connette to continue to see snaps at QB in short yardage situations because he is so effective as a power runner. Although, losing Duncan to suspension could impact the "Connette Package" as Duncan and the graduated Thompson were the primary power blockers for Connette on those TD runs.

I expect Sirk will see a significant number of snaps in order to prepare him to be the #1 QB in 2015.

Interesting stuff. Thanks, Bob. I feel confident that we'll be able to utilize Connette well; he's just such a great weapon.

[Olympic Fan]

We red-shirted 15 of the 20 commits from last year's class, including 8 of our top 10 players by Rivals' rankings.

Barring injuries forcing our hand, the true freshmen most likely to contribute this year include Edgar Cerenord (DT), Trevon Lee (WR) and Chris Taylor (WR). Alonzo Saxton could slip into the DB rotation, but he'll have to beat out a number of talented red-shirts. If Cutcliffe chooses to keep our RB rotation four-deep, he'll have to play Shaun Wilson because of Duncan's suspension.

I think Wilson is almost a lock (barring injury) to play as a freshman.

You have to look at Cut's track record -- in his time at Duke and even before that at Ole Miss, he always redshirts his OL prospect (every OL player he's signed at Duke has redshirted) and almost always redshirts his QBs -- Brandon Connette is the only one who played as a true freshman and that was strictly as a short-yardage running specialist. Even Eli Manning redshirted. With two fifth-year seniors, plus Sirk, Boehme and Chambers ready to go at QB, no way Pierre or Lloyd play.

I think the same goes at DB. Cut has played true freshmen in the backfield before -- Fields, Borders and Singleton did it last year -- but there are SO many young DBs who will be redshirt freshmen (Edwards, Mann, Kite, Holmes and Carter) or rising sophs (Devon Edwards, McCarthy, Westray) and two rising juniors (Cash and Norman) -- that it's hard to see how any freshman could break the rotation. It's possible if somebody is really good.

Okay, where does Cut play freshmen?

Start with running back -- twice in his first six years, a freshman has led the team in rushing (Scott in 2009, Duncan in 2012). Almost every running back of note has played as a true freshman. With Duncan suspended, I'm certain that the plan is for Wilson to be in the rotation right away. Plus, he's a explosive playmaker -- Duke's first four-star RB since Desmond Scott.

Cut has also played a bunch of true freshmen receivers -- especially the good ones. Varner, Vernon, Jamison all started as true freshmen. Barnes and Ryan Smith played last season, while Douglas and Alls redshirted. I think it's very likely that Lee and/or Taylor play next season.

Very few defensive linemen have played as true freshmen -- either at DT or DE. But I think Cernord -- the mostly highly rated DL prospect that Cut has signed -- will play at least as much as John Drew did in his freshman season. Ferguson -- based on his prep rating -- probably redshirts unless he kills it in preseason practice. We have less need at DE and that means Shabazz has a good chance to redshirt.

One last possibility. We're not real deep at LB. It would be great to redshirt Bere, but he might need to play.

So, to sum up, I expect most of the class to redshirt. In my eyes, the most likely to play next year are:

1. Wilson at RB
2. Lee at WR
3. Cerenord at DT
3. maybe Taylor at WR

I'd be shocked if either QB saw the field next fall. If Lloyd wanted to give up QB and play WR, he could play right away ... but I think he fights for the QB job in 2015. Only if he fails to win a spot in the rotation then will he consider a move.

[Dukehky]

I think Wilson is almost a lock (barring injury) to play as a freshman.

You have to look at Cut's track record -- in his time at Duke and even before that at Ole Miss, he always redshirts his OL prospect (every OL player he's signed at Duke has redshirted) and almost always redshirts his QBs -- Brandon Connette is the only one who played as a true freshman and that was strictly as a short-yardage running specialist. Even Eli Manning redshirted. With two fifth-year seniors, plus Sirk, Boehme and Chambers ready to go at QB, no way Pierre or Lloyd play.

I think the same goes at DB. Cut has played true freshmen in the backfield before -- Fields, Borders and Singleton did it last year -- but there are SO many young DBs who will be redshirt freshmen (Edwards, Mann, Kite, Holmes and Carter) or rising sophs (Devon Edwards, McCarthy, Westray) and two rising juniors (Cash and Norman) -- that it's hard to see how any freshman could break the rotation. It's possible if somebody is really good.

Okay, where does Cut play freshmen?

Start with running back -- twice in his first six years, a freshman has led the team in rushing (Scott in 2009, Duncan in 2012). Almost every running back of note has played as a true freshman. With Duncan suspended, I'm certain that the plan is for Wilson to be in the rotation right away. Plus, he's a explosive playmaker -- Duke's first four-star RB since Desmond Scott.

.

Shaq Powell was a 4 star recruit who played, although sparingly as a Freshman

[Olympic Fan]

Shaq Powell was a 4 star recruit who played, although sparingly as a Freshman

Sorry, I'm sure you can find some place that ranked Powell as a 4-star, but he was 3-star with both scout and ESPN

But whether 3 or 4 star, he confirms what I said -- that Cut plays his top running backs as true freshmen.

Last year, the four-back rotation -- Duncan, Thompson, Snead and Powell -- all played as true freshman. Joseph Ajiegbe was the only recruited RB on the roster to redshirt (well, Snead redshirted as a sophomore due to injury)

[Dukehky]

Sorry, I'm sure you can find some place that ranked Powell as a 4-star, but he was 3-star with both scout and ESPN

But whether 3 or 4 star, he confirms what I said -- that Cut plays his top running backs as true freshmen.

Last year, the four-back rotation -- Duncan, Thompson, Snead and Powell -- all played as true freshman. Joseph Ajiegbe was the only recruited RB on the roster to redshirt (well, Snead redshirted as a sophomore due to injury)

Rivals, but you're correct, it does add to your point. Rivals is usually the one I look at most, not for any particular reason, but if they're rated differently by other scouts then I'm typically not aware of it.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I think they are way overhyped.

As I understand most of Duke's class committed early in the process. If they had committed to a "football" school at that time do you think they would have been gotten more stars.

Thanks
SoCal