Thoughts from a Maryland Fan?

[Here is a Turtle]

Hello all,

I’m new here, and have been lurking for a couple weeks or so. As you can guess by the name, I’m a Maryland fan/student.

Something that always rather annoyed me about Maryland fans is an overwhelming hatred of Duke in basketball. As for me personally, I used to dislike Duke fans because the ones that I’ve met came off as arrogant and entitled. It makes me not want to be around them, and extends to the rest of the fans. Now, with the incoming B1G move and a possibility at reviving the Georgetown/Maryland games with new coaches coming in, I’m neutral to Duke in general. Honestly, if you played Kentucky next year, I would root for you to win by 20. As for the “rivalry,” in five years or so, I doubt the student body would care either way.

Honestly, I intend to just enjoy the experience of our “non rivals” in the ACC one last year and see if the hate is truly worth it so hopefully you won’t mind a Terp fan sticking around and poking his head out of his shell every now and then. Though, I definitely expect to get heckled like no other.

However, I’ve always been curious about what Duke fans truly think of us and the program in general. After looking at some of the threads on the board, I see mixed things. I see loathing of fans, the “not our rivals” comments, the misconception that we set fire to everything every time we beat Duke, etc. Some things I agree on others I couldn’t disagree more on. So the question that I ask to you Duke fans is why the disdain for Maryland?

Not sure if this belongs in Elizabeth King or Off topic, but it’s more about Maryland/Duke fans so I’ll put it here. If this needs to be moved please do so.

[Channing]

Speaking in very broad terms, there is no fan base I despise more than Maryland's. Fair or not, I judge most fan bases based on what I see at the games, which is mostly the actions of the students in attendance. The incessant vulgarity and even violence displayed by Maryland's students and other fans at the game, and the apparent thought that such is clever and funny, is incredibly off-putting.

I think the program itself is an also-ran that had a (very) good run with Juan Dixon and co but is generally a middle of the pack program that occasionally makes the tournament but more often than not underwhelms.

[chrishoke]

Easy. Terps are dead to me.

[Here is a Turtle]

Speaking in very broad terms, there is no fan base I despise more than Maryland's. Fair or not, I judge most fan bases based on what I see at the games, which is mostly the actions of the students in attendance. The incessant vulgarity and even violence displayed by Maryland's students and other fans at the game, and the apparent thought that such is clever and funny, is incredibly off-putting.

I think the program itself is an also-ran that had a (very) good run with Juan Dixon and co but is generally a middle of the pack program that occasionally makes the tournament but more often than not underwhelms.

I would agree the past few years the program had been underwhelming to say the least. A large chunk of that I would place on Gary's lack of desire to play the AAU game and stick with lower level recruits that will stay four years instead. I feel Turgeon will get us back to what we were in the late 90s early 2000s in a few years. He completely morphed the team in less than a year and I feel we were a quality point guard away from the dance.

As far as fans go, yeah we go overboard at times. However, the few students that do throw things are booed by the crowd. I've seen students try to throw other students out games that threw stuff at fans. As for the vulgarity, I agree. It's bad. That's a culture that will take time to change. On the flip side, I have certainly heard my fair share of vulgarity from the duke crowd at games. I would say every fan base has those fans that do that.

[Kedsy]

So the question that I ask to you Duke fans is why the disdain for Maryland?

I used to root for Maryland the same as any other ACC school (except of course UNC, a team I never root for under any circumstances). Sometime in the '90s, or maybe early 2000s, I stopped. The sheer vitriol and empty and unreasoning hatred displayed by almost every Maryland fan I came across eventually led to my feelings of mild disdain. There are just so many times you can take someone yelling and cursing at you simply because you're wearing a Duke sweatshirt before you begin to root against them.

I don't hate Maryland. Honestly, you're not our rival. But I don't wish the Terps well, like I used to.

[toughbuff1]

I used to root for Maryland the same as any other ACC school (except of course UNC, a team I never root for under any circumstances). Sometime in the '90s, or maybe early 2000s, I stopped. The sheer vitriol and empty and unreasoning hatred displayed by almost every Maryland fan I came across eventually led to my feelings of mild disdain. There are just so many times you can take someone yelling and cursing at you simply because you're wearing a Duke sweatshirt before you begin to root against them.

I don't hate Maryland. Honestly, you're not our rival. But I don't wish the Terps well, like I used to.

Agreed. I live in Baltimore, and I can't go to a bar and watch a Duke game without at least a couple people saying something to rude me or shooting daggers at me with their eyes. And not rude in a joking way, rude in a hateful way. I try to pull for Maryland when they aren't playing Duke, since I've lived there all my life, but it just gets tougher every year. Maybe it will be different when they leave the ACC, but somehow I doubt it.

[Here is a Turtle]

Agreed. I live in Baltimore, and I can't go to a bar and watch a Duke game without at least a couple people saying something to rude me or shooting daggers at me with their eyes. And not rude in a joking way, rude in a hateful way. I try to pull for Maryland when they aren't playing Duke, since I've lived there all my life, but it just gets tougher every year. Maybe it will be different when they leave the ACC, but somehow I doubt it.

Honestly, I anticipate it being different once we're gone. As a student, it actually drives me up a wall when I see the amount of effort put into the last Duke game we had (i.e. the flash mob, Harlem shake, etc) but not so much in other games. The student body is extremely creative when it wants to be but only truly shows it during games like Duke and occasionally North Carolina and Virginia. I can only imagine the frightful headway we would make when we treat all conference games like that. It makes me honestly glad we're moving to the B1G.

[brevity]

Easy. Terps are dead to me.

I guess one consequence of entering the lion's den is becoming a carcass. For more civilized lions, though...


As for the “rivalry,” in five years or so, I doubt the student body would care either way.

If the (younger) student body reflects the opinion of (older) alumni or other fans at all, then I disagree. This analogy is inadequate for many reasons, but Jay Williams is to Maryland as Christian Laettner is to Kentucky. His individual performance beat Maryland, and he's the face of the team that denied Maryland a title in 2001. Kentucky fans have managed to hold a grudge since 1992, despite winning a title in 1996 and having complete mirror-image revenge against Duke in 1998 en route to another title. Despite being in a different conference and not playing Duke all that often, do you think Kentucky's current student body absorbs that hatred? Absolutely.


However, I’ve always been curious about what Duke fans truly think of us and the program in general. After looking at some of the threads on the board, I see mixed things. I see loathing of fans, the “not our rivals” comments, the misconception that we set fire to everything every time we beat Duke, etc. Some things I agree on others I couldn’t disagree more on. So the question that I ask to you Duke fans is why the disdain for Maryland?

I've never been to College Park, so I rely on the anecdotes here even more than you do. I think there is a line between an uncomfortably hostile away environment and a physically dangerous away environment, and Maryland has made a habit of crossing that line. For comparison, think of hockey and the law. A lot of physical battery occurs in the arena, and even the biggest ambulance chaser is inclined to do nothing because he or she acknowledges an assumption of risk. But there is an occasional intentional harmful act that goes beyond the scope of hockey, where both the league and local authorities have to get involved. At a certain point, someone loses self-control, and the violence can no longer be attributed to a natural consequence of sports.

Duke fans who believe College Park is a dangerous place to visit have a basis for a disdain of Maryland. So far I've just mentioned issues of hospitality among fans. Now add incidents on neutral arenas, and of course player interaction, and the result is somewhat combustible.

[Listen to Quants]

Always used to love the Maryland Men's BB team. I was a fan of Lefty, John Lucas, Len E., the sharp-shooter B. Magid, Dixon, Vasquez, etc. The fan behavior has turned me away a lot, but I still love the old Maryland. The championship game against NC State in 1974 was/is a legit candidate for best college BB game ever.

The honesty of the UM President, paraphrase "show me the money" is fine by me, too. Good luck in the B1G.

[Here is a Turtle]

If the (younger) student body reflects the opinion of (older) alumni or other fans at all, then I disagree.

I see your point, but the alumni and current student body do view teams differently. The way older alums view Virginia is almost like they're the team from hell. A lot of the older alums hate Virginia way more than duke. However, the current student body doesn't care too much about them. Could Virginia being forced to take Virginia tech as a rival be part of the reason? Probably, but with the exception of soccer, the student body is pretty neutral to Virginia. Albeit, we despise Justin Anderson. It's that reason that makes me believe that in five or so years, the next crop of students won't care nowhere near as much about Duke then. Will they care, yes, but it would probably be different.

As for the hostility thing, I've gone to almost every game my four years here in football, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, etc and I've seen stuff get thrown at people maybe two times. Both times the student body tried to throw the kid out. So I honestly think Comcast being a danger zone is overstated. Others experiences may be different and its unfortunate a few kids ruin the lot but again, I've never seen it to the degree I read on here.

[rthomas]

Always used to love the Maryland Men's BB team. I was a fan of Lefty, John Lucas, Len E., the sharp-shooter B. Magid, Dixon, Vasquez, etc. The fan behavior has turned me away a lot, but I still love the old Maryland. The championship game against NC State in 1974 was/is a legit candidate for best college BB game ever.

The honesty of the UM President, paraphrase "show me the money" is fine by me, too. Good luck in the B1G.

I agree 100%. I grew up in awe of Len Bias. Lefty. John Lucas, Tom McMillen, Len Elmore. The great games between Maryland and UVa when Sampson ruled.

If this were the first chink in the ACC armor, I might really care. But it's not. This isn't the ACC any more than the Big 10 is the Big ten-eleven-twelve-whatever. or any other conference for that matter. The ACC is The Big East Coast Conference.

I don't care about conferences anymore. Seeee-ya, Maryland. Have fun traveling the midwest.

[Here is a Turtle]

I agree 100%. I grew up in awe of Len Bias. Lefty. John Lucas, Tom McMillen, Len Elmore. The great games between Maryland and UVa when Sampson ruled.

If this were the first chink in the ACC armor, I might really care. But it's not. This isn't the ACC any more than the Big 10 is the Big ten-eleven-twelve-whatever. or any other conference for that matter. The ACC is The Big East Coast Conference.

I don't care about conferences anymore. Seeee-ya, Maryland. Have fun traveling the midwest.

I agree. Looking at old ACC vault games makes me wish I could have seen those games live. We'll be fine going to the B1G though. They gave us a nice stipend to travel with.

[gwlaw99]

I always respected Gary and the MD program. Your fans are without a doubt the worst though.

[ricks68]

Here is a Turtle,

I was seated next to an older Maryland fan and his 10 year old son at a FF a few (gosh, more than a few!) years ago. While Maryland was playing (not against Duke), I was cheering on some great play by their opponent. The Maryland fan turned to me and said in a loud voice: "Why are you cheering against another ACC team?" My answer was that I do cheer for other ACC teams on a regular basis when Duke is not their opponent, but that I absolutely refuse to cheer for Maryland because of the verbal and physical abuse that I have seen and experienced by Maryland fans towards anything or anyone Duke. At that point he became so verbally and demonstratively abusive to me that I began to fear for my physical well-being (really). Luckily, the seats across the aisle and up a few rows were vacant, and I got out of there fast. Oh, and I would bet that his son received a lesson in Maryland fan behavior that will be carried on no matter who their future "rival" will be.

I saw the videos of riots in Maryland "caused" by both losses and wins by their BB team resulting in millions of dollars of damage. I saw Carlos Boozer's mother get injured by being hit in the head by a full water bottle thrown at her by a Maryland fan. I saw verbal taunting and spitting on Coach Krzyzewski's family by Maryland fans that caused them much fear and trepidation, resulting in K's family never again attending a game at Maryland----in spite of security assurances. While all of this, and more, occured time and time again over a period of years, not once did the Maryland school administration---or Gary Williams---ever address the situation other than just fan exhuberence, and that it was not in their realm of responsibility. Check it out.

In contrast, on more than one occasion, upon hearing a disparaging word or observing a disparaging action directed towards an opponent in Cameron, Coach K demanded right then and there, that those actions cease immediately----and they did.

"And, now you know the rest of the story."

ricks

[Zeke]

Hello all,

I’m new here, and have been lurking for a couple weeks or so. As you can guess by the name, I’m a Maryland fan/student.

Something that always rather annoyed me about Maryland fans is an overwhelming hatred of Duke in basketball. As for me personally, I used to dislike Duke fans because the ones that I’ve met came off as arrogant and entitled. It makes me not want to be around them, and extends to the rest of the fans. Now, with the incoming B1G move and a possibility at reviving the Georgetown/Maryland games with new coaches coming in, I’m neutral to Duke in general. Honestly, if you played Kentucky next year, I would root for you to win by 20. As for the “rivalry,” in five years or so, I doubt the student body would care either way.

Honestly, I intend to just enjoy the experience of our “non rivals” in the ACC one last year and see if the hate is truly worth it so hopefully you won’t mind a Terp fan sticking around and poking his head out of his shell every now and then. Though, I definitely expect to get heckled like no other.

However, I’ve always been curious about what Duke fans truly think of us and the program in general. After looking at some of the threads on the board, I see mixed things. I see loathing of fans, the “not our rivals” comments, the misconception that we set fire to everything every time we beat Duke, etc. Some things I agree on others I couldn’t disagree more on. So the question that I ask to you Duke fans is why the disdain for Maryland?

Not sure if this belongs in Elizabeth King or Off topic, but it’s more about Maryland/Duke fans so I’ll put it here. If this needs to be moved please do so.

Duke's rival is UNC. Secondarily it is NC State. Maryland, although having some very good teams, is just not really thought of as a rival - more like Ga Tech (who also has had some very good teams although not lately). Sorry, it's a geographic thing. Have a good time in the Big 10. Maybe you can have a rivalry with Ohio State or Iowa.

[Here is a Turtle]

In contrast, on more than one occasion, upon hearing a disparaging word or observing a disparaging action directed towards an opponent in Cameron, Coach K demanded right then and there, that those actions cease immediately----and they did.

"And, now you know the rest of the story."

ricks


I apologize for how my fellow fan base reacted. No excuses for what transpired there.the rioting is stupid but considering what other teams have done when winning not unheard of.
That's unfortunate and regretful those stories exist about the fanbase, but google is a powerful friend. One of my issues with Duke faithful is the mindset that the fans have not engaged in any questionable behavior. There was that chant in NC State "how's Your Grandma" for Tyler Lewis when she died. I understand that most of the fanbase wasnt chanting it, but then again most of our fanbase arent spitting on Duke fans either.

There is this article in the Duke Chronicle below that aludes to some interesting words being said:

http://m.dukechronicle.com/articles/2001/02/08/stick-pro-duke-sportsmanlike-cheers-cameron

Greivis Vasquez U.S.A chants which I'm surprised haven't been targeted at Alex Len. Then there was the 12 year old legless orphan that was with one of the Maryland assistant coaches in 2000 that got taunted by fans after a loss. Where was Coach K then? While, I'm not arguing that our fans are crass and rude and that some circles embrace this notion, it annoys me that you have this perception that your fans do no wrong.

As for finding rivals in the B1G, honestly, I'd rather just renew our rivalry Georgetown than those other schools. If we find them in the B1G we find them. Our program will be fine with or without them.

[ForkFondler]

Easy. Terps are dead to me.

I concur. I work in College Park and walk to the outskirts of the campus on a regular basis. Where once there was a far flung northern outpost of the ACC, there is now nothing but a mIdwestern dustbowl. Sad, but karma is a I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..

[rthomas]

We'll be fine going to the B1G though. They gave us a nice stipend to travel with.

So fans get a per diem to travel to see games? how much do you get to go to Ann Arbor?

[Newton_14]

I apologize for how my fellow fan base reacted. No excuses for what transpired there.the rioting is stupid but considering what other teams have done when winning not unheard of.
That's unfortunate and regretful those stories exist about the fanbase, but google is a powerful friend. One of my issues with Duke faithful is the mindset that the fans have not engaged in any questionable behavior. There was that chant in NC State "how's Your Grandma" for Tyler Lewis when she died. I understand that most of the fanbase wasnt chanting it, but then again most of our fanbase arent spitting on Duke fans either.

There is this article in the Duke Chronicle below that aludes to some interesting words being said:

http://m.dukechronicle.com/articles/2001/02/08/stick-pro-duke-sportsmanlike-cheers-cameron

Greivis Vasquez U.S.A chants which I'm surprised haven't been targeted at Alex Len. Then there was the 12 year old legless orphan that was with one of the Maryland assistant coaches in 2000 that got taunted by fans after a loss. Where was Coach K then? While, I'm not arguing that our fans are crass and rude and that some circles embrace this notion, it annoys me that you have this perception that your fans do no wrong.

As for finding rivals in the B1G, honestly, I'd rather just renew our rivalry Georgetown than those other schools. If we find them in the B1G we find them. Our program will be fine with or without them.

To address the Tyler Lewis chant (again). That never happened. And saying "just a few did it" gives a fabricated story legitimacy. So I find it very important with this particular allegation to give no credence whatsoever to the "just a few did it". That was not the allegation. I was in the building. I saw the whiteboard that was flashed around to the Crazies to help start the chant, and I heard the chant. I was also sitting right beside two State fans who saw and heard the same thing as I.

The allegation was that the Crazies in unison, chanted "how's your Grandma". Which is absurd. They chanted loudly "Past your bedtime". At no point did anyone chant "hows your grandma". Had that happened, the State players would have reacted negatively and been angry as would have the State Staff, and more importantly, K and the Duke staff. K would have shut it down.

Instead, the Duke staff ignored it, the State staff ignored it, and the few State players that did react, smiled or laughed.

Now you can believe me, all of the people above, and the other 9000 people in the buidling, or you can believe the internet dweebs that were not in the building but fabricated and advanced the lie.

Your choice.

[Here is a Turtle]

Except that there are several people and reporters that heard BOTH things said. The majority chanted "past your bedtime" but there was a small section that said "how's your grandma." Even if that was not said, that does not excuse the other questionable things that has been heard and said by the Crazies.

My point remains, your student section is far from perfect but far from the worse. I still say we are way worse than you, but we've been like that for decades. You need no reminder.

[CDu]

A current Maryland student probably wouldn't understand why the disdain exists. I have no doubt that things have been scaled back a bit over the past few years (not the language, but at least the in-arena violence). And a student living on campus is going to be insulated from the types of events that would lead to the disdain from Duke fans. So, no offense Turtle, but you're out of your element on this one. So I'll provide a bit of a history lesson for you.

Prior to 2000, I don't think anyone at Duke cared one way or the other about Maryland. They were just another ACC team with a coach who sweat a lot - way more than the average coach. In the late-90s, Duke would routinely beat Maryland by 20+ points. I think those beatings took a toll on Maryland's psyche. And so, in 2000 when Maryland finally got over the hump against Duke, there was a feeling of satisfaction. They felt vindicated and "on Duke's level."

In 2001, Maryland's team was really really good. They were a top-5 team with tons of talent and experience. They felt they were ready to surpass Duke. The game in College Park that year was going to be their chance to make things official: beat Duke, and they become the top dogs. And all was going well. They led comfortably throughout the second half and seemed poised to take a double-digit lead. And then it happened. Down 10, with under a minute to go, Duke did the unthinkable. They came back and sent it to overtime. And in overtime, they pulled out the win. It was a catastrophe for Maryland, and their fans just lost it. They crossed the line. They threw batteries. They threw bottles. They went ballistic. A monster was born of hate.

Fast forward a couple of months to the Final Four. Duke vs. Maryland, again. Maryland would have its chance to avenge the earlier loss in College Park. Knocking Duke from the tournament on the way to a national championship would cure all ills. And things started off great. They were up by more than 20 in the first half! This was going to be glorious. And then it happened. Duke chipped away at that lead, minute by minute. And they would go on to win... by 10+! The outrage! Duke had once again spoiled Maryland's season, and they did so in a way so painful and embarassing that one could not imagine. Twice (in entirely different fashion) Duke had robbed Maryland of what they felt was their rightful victory.

From that point on, Maryland became insufferable with respect to Duke. Their hate hit cosmic levels. It was no longer safe for Duke fans to go Maryland games there. Fans with Duke stickers on their cars could expect to have their cars keyed, their tires slashed, their windows broken, etc. The fans took to unified vulgar chants and harassing phone calls to players (including some really inappropriate comments about players' families). They took the vulgarity and inappropriateness to levels that were far beyond anything that we have seen from any other collegiate fan base ever.

This continued for years after the 2001 season (even though Maryland won the title the next year and added an ACC title along the way as well). Their fans just couldn't let the Duke hate go. They just wouldn't forget.

So why does Duke now have disdain for Maryland? Because we haven't forgotten, either. And because Maryland won't let us forget. They've kept with the overly excessive vulgarity (I know you say that "all fanbases do it", but nobody is as blatantly offensive and vulgar as Maryland fans during Duke games; just ask ESPN broadcasters). They've continued with the incredibly poor treatment of Duke fans in the DC/College Park area.

Maryland wanted so badly for so many years to be Duke's rival. And to be honest, for a while they were (despite many Duke fans' protests that they weren't). But when their team couldn't hold up the rivalry, they took to inciting the rivalry with offensiveness and violence towards Duke players and fans. And that's why we have disdain for Maryland.

[Here is a Turtle]

A current Maryland student probably wouldn't understand why the disdain exists. I have no doubt that things have been scaled back a bit over the past few years (not the language, but at least the in-arena violence). And a student living on campus is going to be insulated from the types of events that would lead to the disdain from Duke fans. So, no offense Turtle, but you're out of your element on this one. So I'll provide a bit of a history lesson for you.

Prior to 2000, I don't think anyone at Duke cared one way or the other about Maryland. They were just another ACC team with a coach who sweat a lot - way more than the average coach. In the late-90s, Duke would routinely beat Maryland by 20+ points. I think those beatings took a toll on Maryland's psyche. And so, in 2000 when Maryland finally got over the hump against Duke, there was a feeling of satisfaction. They felt vindicated and "on Duke's level."

In 2001, Maryland's team was really really good. They were a top-5 team with tons of talent and experience. They felt they were ready to surpass Duke. The game in College Park that year was going to be their chance to make things official: beat Duke, and they become the top dogs. And all was going well. They led comfortably throughout the second half and seemed poised to take a double-digit lead. And then it happened. Down 10, with under a minute to go, Duke did the unthinkable. They came back and sent it to overtime. And in overtime, they pulled out the win. It was a catastrophe for Maryland, and their fans just lost it. They crossed the line. They threw batteries. They threw bottles. They went ballistic. A monster was born of hate.

Fast forward a couple of months to the Final Four. Duke vs. Maryland, again. Maryland would have its chance to avenge the earlier loss in College Park. Knocking Duke from the tournament on the way to a national championship would cure all ills. And things started off great. They were up by more than 20 in the first half! This was going to be glorious. And then it happened. Duke chipped away at that lead, minute by minute. And they would go on to win... by 10+! The outrage! Duke had once again spoiled Maryland's season, and they did so in a way so painful and embarassing that one could not imagine. Twice (in entirely different fashion) Duke had robbed Maryland of what they felt was their rightful victory.

From that point on, Maryland became insufferable with respect to Duke. Their hate hit cosmic levels. It was no longer safe for Duke fans to go Maryland games there. Fans with Duke stickers on their cars could expect to have their cars keyed, their tires slashed, their windows broken, etc. The fans took to unified vulgar chants and harassing phone calls to players (including some really inappropriate comments about players' families). They took the vulgarity and inappropriateness to levels that were far beyond anything that we have seen from any other collegiate fan base ever.

This continued for years after the 2001 season (even though Maryland won the title the next year and added an ACC title along the way as well). Their fans just couldn't let the Duke hate go. They just wouldn't forget.

So why does Duke now have disdain for Maryland? Because we haven't forgotten, either. And because Maryland won't let us forget. They've kept with the overly excessive vulgarity (I know you say that "all fanbases do it", but nobody is as blatantly offensive and vulgar as Maryland fans during Duke games; just ask ESPN broadcasters). They've continued with the incredibly poor treatment of Duke fans in the DC/College Park area.

Maryland wanted so badly for so many years to be Duke's rival. And to be honest, for a while they were (despite many Duke fans' protests that they weren't). But when their team couldn't hold up the rivalry, they took to inciting the rivalry with offensiveness and violence towards Duke players and fans. And that's why we have disdain for Maryland.

No offense taken, but just because I'm a student doesn't mean I haven't heard about the Miracle Minute (We're still angry about that) and the Final Four was the tipping point with some questionable calls. Thanks for the explanation though. Really explains it for me.

Thanks

Honestly, this rivalry talk needs to end. Believe it or not, more students are saying that the two schools aren't rivals. The B1G move probably helps, but winning a season series for the first time in years helps too.

[Newton_14]

Except that there are several people and reporters that heard BOTH things said. The majority chanted "past your bedtime" but there was a small section that said "how's your grandma." Even if that was not said, that does not excuse the other questionable things that has been heard and said by the Crazies.

My point remains, your student section is far from perfect but far from the worse. I still say we are way worse than you, but we've been like that for decades. You need no reminder.

You and others will hear what you want to hear on the U-Tube video and believe what you want to believe when reading the written word of those "reporters" that supposedly heard that. I have yet to see a single report from a credible reporter source that it happened, and you missed the key point of my post. The allegation was never that "both things" were chanted, or that "a few chanted grandma". The allegation was that the entire Student section chanted that. When provided proof that they did not, folks fall back on the old "Well there are always a couple of bad fans/students, so that is probably what happened". Which stating it that way means it is almost impossible to prove it did not happen.

The proof is in the pudding. So, a few, (5? 10? 15?) Crazies chanted "grandma" loud enough that court side reporters heard it, yet no State players on the court heard it, no State bench players heard it, and no one on the State staff heard it? Got it. Makes perfect sense.

To top it off, most Duke fans and students had no clue that Lewis had suffered a death in his family.

But again you read it on the Internet from "reporters" so it has to be true...

[Here is a Turtle]

I get your point, but I said at the beginning that the entire student section didn't chant it. Only a few. The agree that the entire thing is overblown but I feel you're missing my original point.

My point was that your student section is not perfect and you have obnoxious fans that act out in Cameron like everyone else. I hope that doesn't get lost because of what someone said or didn't say.

[JBDuke]

This is not the time for this discussion, and going down this road, especially when folks are already amped up about Duke's pending Sweet 16 game, serves no purpose and is likely to lead to flaming.

Turtle, if you want to engage in these type of discussions, please do so after Duke's season is over. If you wish to contribute meaningfully to other active discussions on these boards, feel free, as long as you adhere to our Posting Guidelines. But be aware that we do not tolerate trolls.

For now, this thread is closed.