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View Full Version : Elite 8- East Region: Syracuse 55, Marquette 39



Newton_14
03-29-2013, 02:27 PM
Use this thread as the pre-game, in-game, and post-game thread for Syracuse vs Marquette.

CDu
03-29-2013, 02:46 PM
Use this thread as the pre-game, in-game, and post-game thread for Syracuse vs Marquette.

Should be an incredibly, physical, ugly, and not-fun-to-watch game. Guarantees a Big East team in the Final Four.

Newton_14
03-29-2013, 06:56 PM
Should be an incredibly, physical, ugly, and not-fun-to-watch game. Guarantees a Big East team in the Final Four.

Agree. But hey if its the Orange we can just claim them as ACC members just to make people mad.

matt1
03-30-2013, 04:07 PM
Here is a place to discuss Michigan/ Florida, OSU/ Wichita, and 'Cuse/Marquette.

I like OSU, Michigan, and Syracuse to win.

uh_no
03-30-2013, 04:14 PM
Here is a place to discuss Michigan/ Florida, OSU/ Wichita, and 'Cuse/Marquette.

I like OSU, Michigan, and Syracuse to win.

michigan OSU marquette.

you can thank me when the cash rolls in :)

in reality:

i haven't been sold on florida's absurd efficiency all year..and the loss to UK at the end of the year....ughhhh....michigan is streaky, but it seems like they're on right now....florida hasn't had a test yet in the tournament, IMO and this will be quite a test....michigan comes out on top

OSU has had close games, and that worries me, since I've thought they're pretty good, but wichita state, their best win coming into the tournament was creighton....to whom they also lost twice...OSU rolls to the final 4

syracuse is hit or miss....marquette plays a very regular brand of basketball that allowed them to win the big east, and get to this point in the tournament....they beat syracuse once already and I thnk they do again

Newton_14
03-30-2013, 04:38 PM
Already had threads for each ellite 8 game guys...

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-30-2013, 04:45 PM
Marquette is on pace to score 7 shots. And is only down 2 points.

Why are we in our region again?

Wildling
03-30-2013, 04:47 PM
Marquette can't shoot. Against this 2-3 zone trap, you have to be able to drop 3's with a hand in your face to loosen it up or SU will just suffocate ya.

uh_no
03-30-2013, 04:49 PM
Marquette is on pace to score 7 shots. And is only down 2 points.

Why are we in our region again?

geography :)

we got unlucky in the draw, it's unfortunate and it happens.

gotta beat who's in front of you!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-30-2013, 04:50 PM
geography :)

we got unlucky in the draw, it's unfortunate and it happens.

gotta beat who's in front of you!

Oh, I wasn't whining in earnest. It's just amazing how some regions look so soft. Especially at this point in the tourney.

If we get the the Final Four, we've earned it, that's for sure.

uh_no
03-30-2013, 04:53 PM
Oh, I wasn't whining in earnest. It's just amazing how some regions look so soft. Especially at this point in the tourney.

If we get the the Final Four, we've earned it, that's for sure.

yep. it would be a huge accomplishment.

we're paying for our ACC tournament performance....but if we are worthy enough to beat UL, then the final 4 ought to be a cakewalk, right? :P

Wildling
03-30-2013, 05:01 PM
One could argue that Marquette has played better teams than Duke to get to where they are. And they would be right.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-30-2013, 05:01 PM
They've slowed their blistering shooting. They are now on pace to hit six shots. Total.

pfrduke
03-30-2013, 05:03 PM
One could argue that Marquette has played better teams than Duke to get to where they are. And they would be right.

Davidson is definitely better than Albany. Miami and Michigan State is, I think, close to a push - yes, Miami beat MSU earlier in the year (at Coral Gables) but those two teams are about equally strong. Creighton is better than Butler.

Also, Marquette should have had to play tougher teams to get where they are - they are a lower seed than we are.

Newton_14
03-30-2013, 05:09 PM
Marquette back on their normal shooting level. Still say Miami beats them if Marquette does not shoot out of their minds and Miami shoots normal.

Wildling
03-30-2013, 05:14 PM
Marquette back on their normal shooting level. Still say Miami beats them if Marquette does not shoot out of their minds and Miami shoots normal.

Someone was telling me that Miami had/has a flu bug floating around their team during the Marquette game. Any truth to that?

RoyalBlue08
03-30-2013, 05:26 PM
Someone was telling me that Miami had/has a flu bug floating around their team during the Marquette game. Any truth to that?

I heard Lofton was sick all night before the game, but don't remember the source now.

TNDukeFan
03-30-2013, 05:44 PM
Just turned over to the game -- 24-18 at the half? Really glad I haven't been watching.

uh_no
03-30-2013, 05:47 PM
Just turned over to the game -- 24-18 at the half? Really glad I haven't been watching.

wouldn't want the chance to be subjugated to good defense, i suppose?

not that this game hasn't had it's share of sloppiness, but to dismiss a game simply based on score is a bit superficial, IMO...

Bay Area Duke Fan
03-30-2013, 05:53 PM
Marquette is on pace to score 7 shots. And is only down 2 points.

Why are we in our region again?

Miami (ACC champs) earned the #2 seed in the East.

TNDukeFan
03-30-2013, 05:56 PM
wouldn't want the chance to be subjugated to good defense, i suppose?

not that this game hasn't had it's share of sloppiness, but to dismiss a game simply based on score is a bit superficial, IMO...

I guess I just assumed more of the ugly basketball that we've discussed before. Happy to be wrong, especially for those watching. I actually like defense, like last night's game. :)

rthomas
03-30-2013, 05:57 PM
Oy my God. How bad is this game.

Wildling
03-30-2013, 06:03 PM
I'm enjoying it.

I'm a men's college b'ball junkie though.

I wish Bill Rafferty could do all of Duke games. I love listening to him call a game. "With the blow by!"

Spret42
03-30-2013, 06:15 PM
I am not sure how anyone can watch this and enjoy it. There just isn't one player in this game that I could feel comfortable saying is "good at playing basketball."

The next game won't be much better.

uh_no
03-30-2013, 06:21 PM
I am not sure how anyone can watch this and enjoy it. There just isn't one player in this game that I could feel comfortable saying is "good at playing basketball."

The next game won't be much better.

wow...having an opinion is one thing, but being so hyperbolic is ridiculous. these two teams are playing in the elite 8 after knocking off two of the best teams in the country (indiana and miami)....one of them won the big east

but somehow none of them are good at playing basketball?

J4Kop99
03-30-2013, 06:25 PM
This is about as bad as a game can be for a neutral fan.

Wildling
03-30-2013, 06:32 PM
wow...having an opinion is one thing, but being so hyperbolic is ridiculous. these two teams are playing in the elite 8 after knocking off two of the best teams in the country (indiana and miami)....one of them won the big east

but somehow none of them are good at playing basketball?

Seriously, at this point in the year, if a team has made it this far, they are pretty damn good.

flyingdutchdevil
03-30-2013, 06:35 PM
...is shooting 2/24 from 3pt range. Wow. Wow.

Troublemaker
03-30-2013, 06:44 PM
I am not sure how anyone can watch this and enjoy it. There just isn't one player in this game that I could feel comfortable saying is "good at playing basketball."

I know there were 8 players out there who were pretty darn good at playing zone defense.

As a Duke fan, I usually like seeing zone teams but I'm not sure I'd really relish playing against THIS zone.

MChambers
03-30-2013, 06:50 PM
I know there were 8 players out there who were pretty darn good at playing zone defense.

As a Duke fan, I usually like seeing zone teams but I'm not sure I'd really relish playing against THIS zone.
I'd be happy, because it would mean we made the finals!

turnandburn55
03-30-2013, 08:26 PM
I'd be happy, because it would mean we made the finals!

Agreed! And no game against a team that just won five tournament games in a row will be a cakewalk...

Spret42
03-30-2013, 08:37 PM
If you watched that basketball game and thought it was anything more than a dumpster fire I don't know what to tell you. Cuse and Marquette were playing this game after beating "two of the best teams in college basketball." It's all relative. The fact that Miami and Indiana are two of the top teams in basketball should tell you everything you need to know. 20 years ago those teams wouldn't have been ranked in the top 20 forget the top 5.

People look at these games and think the scoring is low because the teams play such great defense. The scoring is low because there isn't a single player or duo of players on the floor skilled enough to score in anything that could be even remotely described as a variety of ways. Their wasn't a single player in that game who has a chance play 15 minutes a game in the NBA. An elite 8 game without a single future pro?

They didn't shoot 30% because the defense was good. They shot 30% because they aren't good shooters. They didn't score 40 points in a 40 minute game with a 20 foot three point shot. That isn't because Syracuse plays the greatest zone in the history ofbasketball. They didn't score 40 because they aren't good at basketball.

"Getting to this point in the tournament" nowadays isn't due to being a good team its due to the fact that the bar in college basketball is laughably low.

Spret42
03-30-2013, 08:40 PM
I know there were 8 players out there who were pretty darn good at playing zone defense.

As a Duke fan, I usually like seeing zone teams but I'm not sure I'd really relish playing against THIS zone.

There were at least 7 different Duke teams between 1986 and 2001 which would score 75 points without breaking a sweat against that Syracuse zone.


...is shooting 2/24 from 3pt range. Wow. Wow.

Does anyone think they shot 2/24 because the defense was so incredible. They shot 2/24 because they aren't good.

turnandburn55
03-30-2013, 09:13 PM
There were at least 7 different Duke teams between 1986 and 2001 which would score 75 points without breaking a sweat against that Syracuse zone.


The 2001 team could have scored 75 points against anyone with their eyes closed. Throwing out a 63-point retch-fest early in the season against Temple (who they dropped 93 on a week later), 75 points would have been their worst offensive performance of the season ;)

I wouldn't be concerned. After the last few weeks, I'm fairly certain that a drag-out, low-scoring affair plays in our favor, not against us.

hurleyfor3
03-30-2013, 09:22 PM
Does anyone think they shot 2/24 because the defense was so incredible.

Definitely not Ken Pomeroy.

Spret42
03-30-2013, 09:35 PM
The 2001 team could have scored 75 points against anyone with their eyes closed. Throwing out a 63-point retch-fest early in the season against Temple (who they dropped 93 on a week later), 75 points would have been their worst offensive performance of the season ;)

I wouldn't be concerned. After the last few weeks, I'm fairly certain that a drag-out, low-scoring affair plays in our favor, not against us.

The 1994 Duke team would have scored 80.

Duke is pretty good this year and could easily win the title, but does anyone actually think winning this tournament is anything like winning the tournament circa 1998? Does anyone think the 2010 Duke team could have stayed within 30 points of the 1999 team. How about the 2011 UConn team and the 1999 UConn team? Kentucky 2012 vs Kentucky 1996?

Every year a mid-major makes the final four and Wichita State is about to do it this year. This isn't happening because the mid-majors got better. It is happening because the talent and skill levels of the big teams is poor.

If you are watching college basketball right now and you can't see how poor the skill level is despite how "close and intense" the games are, I don't know what to tell you. Yes, the world of college basketball got flat. And the result is universal mediocrity.

uh_no
03-30-2013, 09:50 PM
The 1994 Duke team would have scored 80.

Duke is pretty good this year and could easily win the title, but does anyone actually think winning this tournament is anything like winning the tournament circa 1998? Does anyone think the 2010 Duke team could have stayed within 30 points of the 1999 team. How about the 2011 UConn team and the 1999 UConn team? Kentucky 2012 vs Kentucky 1996?

Every year a mid-major makes the final four and Wichita State is about to do it this year. This isn't happening because the mid-majors got better. It is happening because the talent and skill levels of the big teams is poor.

If you are watching college basketball right now and you can't see how poor the skill level is despite how "close and intense" the games are, I don't know what to tell you. Yes, the world of college basketball got flat. And the result is universal mediocrity.


we're all aware this isn't 2000 or 1990...I also don't care. If the mediocrity is that displeasing to you, perhaps you should watch more NBA games. But as you're posting here, it seems you have at least a reasonable interest in watching current college basketball. As such, maybe you should question why you do have such a reasonable interest, as it's not coming through in the posts you're making disparaging the current state of the game.

Troublemaker
03-30-2013, 09:50 PM
Literally nobody in the world disagrees that quality of play in college basketball has declined from 20 years ago. Straw man.

Newton_14
03-30-2013, 09:52 PM
The 1994 Duke team would have scored 80.

Duke is pretty good this year and could easily win the title, but does anyone actually think winning this tournament is anything like winning the tournament circa 1998? Does anyone think the 2010 Duke team could have stayed within 30 points of the 1999 team. How about the 2011 UConn team and the 1999 UConn team? Kentucky 2012 vs Kentucky 1996?

Every year a mid-major makes the final four and Wichita State is about to do it this year. This isn't happening because the mid-majors got better. It is happening because the talent and skill levels of the big teams is poor.

If you are watching college basketball right now and you can't see how poor the skill level is despite how "close and intense" the games are, I don't know what to tell you. Yes, the world of college basketball got flat. And the result is universal mediocrity.

I think it is a mix actually. The mid-majors have in fact gotten better. The BCS teams are worse due to early entry, and the mid-majors are both getting better players than before, and keeping them 4 years to gell teams. What made tonights OSU/WSU game striking was how much better Wichita St's frontline was than OSU. That is an oddity with the mid-major's, but it killed OSU in this game. WSU's frontlline protected the paint better and made OSU look very small. Not sure why Matta chose not to play his center very much, but going small hurt them big-time.

But as to your main point, I think early entry has hurt both the College and the NBA game, and drafting on potential combined with expansion of the league has hurt the quality of the NBA game quite a bit. There are a lot of guys in the NBA today that would have been either CBA players in the 80's or end of the bench players.

CDu
03-30-2013, 10:43 PM
wouldn't want the chance to be subjugated to good defense, i suppose?

not that this game hasn't had it's share of sloppiness, but to dismiss a game simply based on score is a bit superficial, IMO...

Good defense was certainly played. But the shooting was horrific too. It really was atrocious to watch.

Wildling
03-31-2013, 01:18 AM
"Getting to this point in the tournament" nowadays isn't due to being a good team its due to the fact that the bar in college basketball is laughably low.

You are living in the past. If you don't like the state of men's basketball because the talent level is so low in today's game, maybe the NBA is what you should be watching. I hear they are pretty good up in the professional ranks.

TNDukeFan
03-31-2013, 09:00 AM
As one who perhaps started this angle of the thread back in post #18, perhaps I could try to redirect...
which games in the tournament have showed us some skilled, interesting basketball?
I remember Michigan having some real flow to their game in the first two rounds, and FGCU, at times.

Who else? Ac-centuate the positive...

Des Esseintes
03-31-2013, 12:35 PM
You are living in the past. If you don't like the state of men's basketball because the talent level is so low in today's game, maybe the NBA is what you should be watching. I hear they are pretty good up in the professional ranks.

That's not 100% fair to the guy. There was a time, not especially long ago, when the NBA was a bad watch. By the late 90s scoring had cratered to a crisis point, and the game had come to be dominated by grabbing on the perimeter and wrestling in the post. So the NBA changed its rules. Handchecking was prohibited on the perimeter, and zone defenses were allowed (though I've never understood the argument for how that would boost scoring). Ten years later, anybody with eyes to see will admit the NBA is being played at a terrific level in an environment where the whole global talent pool can fluorish--not just the most jacked dude with the Kodiak stare. All of which is to say that if the college game has started to suck, it's alright to ask for change. I'd love to seeing scoring come back up. I'd love to see a cleaner, more open game. Wouldn't you?

The NCAA could fix this problem. They could change the way the game is refereed, and by rewarding skill, skill would come more to the fore. If they don't, they will probably lose some of the more casual fans of the game. Or even the less casual fans. I love Duke basketball, but when Duke isn't playing I'd rather watch a meaningless NBA game over your average major conference college matchup nine times out of ten. Maybe I'm a huge anomaly, but I kind of doubt it.

g-money
03-31-2013, 12:54 PM
That's not 100% fair to the guy. There was a time, not especially long ago, when the NBA was a bad watch. By the late 90s scoring had cratered to a crisis point, and the game had come to be dominated by grabbing on the perimeter and wrestling in the post. So the NBA changed its rules. Handchecking was prohibited on the perimeter, and zone defenses were allowed (though I've never understood the argument for how that would boost scoring). Ten years later, anybody with eyes to see will admit the NBA is being played at a terrific level in an environment where the whole global talent pool can fluorish--not just the most jacked dude with the Kodiak stare. All of which is to say that if the college game has started to suck, it's alright to ask for change. I'd love to seeing scoring come back up. I'd love to see a cleaner, more open game. Wouldn't you?

The NCAA could fix this problem. They could change the way the game is refereed, and by rewarding skill, skill would come more to the fore. If they don't, they will probably lose some of the more casual fans of the game. Or even the less casual fans. I love Duke basketball, but when Duke isn't playing I'd rather watch a meaningless NBA game over your average major conference college matchup nine times out of ten. Maybe I'm a huge anomaly, but I kind of doubt it.

Well said. Somebody ought to send an email to Mark Emmert with the subject line "Syracuse 55, Marquette 39" and use this post as the text. Who knows, maybe it would inspire change.

Wildling
03-31-2013, 03:00 PM
That's not 100% fair to the guy. There was a time, not especially long ago, when the NBA was a bad watch. By the late 90s scoring had cratered to a crisis point, and the game had come to be dominated by grabbing on the perimeter and wrestling in the post. So the NBA changed its rules. Handchecking was prohibited on the perimeter, and zone defenses were allowed (though I've never understood the argument for how that would boost scoring). Ten years later, anybody with eyes to see will admit the NBA is being played at a terrific level in an environment where the whole global talent pool can fluorish--not just the most jacked dude with the Kodiak stare. All of which is to say that if the college game has started to suck, it's alright to ask for change. I'd love to seeing scoring come back up. I'd love to see a cleaner, more open game. Wouldn't you?

The NCAA could fix this problem. They could change the way the game is refereed, and by rewarding skill, skill would come more to the fore. If they don't, they will probably lose some of the more casual fans of the game. Or even the less casual fans. I love Duke basketball, but when Duke isn't playing I'd rather watch a meaningless NBA game over your average major conference college matchup nine times out of ten. Maybe I'm a huge anomaly, but I kind of doubt it.

It's more than fair. He doesn't like the talent level of men's college basketball. If that's the case, watch the NBA. It's fantastic to watch. I watch both and enjoy both. I'm a basketball junkie though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

If you want, much like Spret42 wants, and what I want, an upgrade in talent in men's college basketball, the cure if very simple in my opinion. Institute a rule much like the MLB eligibility rules. You can either go to a junior college, where you will be eligible for the draft at the end of your first and second seasons, or you can go to a four-year university like Duke, where you will not be eligible for the pros until you finish your junior year or turn 21. Problem solved.

But in the meantime, how about enjoying what these kids are doing instead of coming to a college b'ball board and complaining how bad the talent is. The kids playing can't help it that NBA talent is leaving after 1 year of college.

Des Esseintes
03-31-2013, 08:16 PM
It's more than fair. He doesn't like the talent level of men's college basketball. If that's the case, watch the NBA. It's fantastic to watch. I watch both and enjoy both. I'm a basketball junkie though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

If you want, much like Spret42 wants, and what I want, an upgrade in talent in men's college basketball, the cure if very simple in my opinion. Institute a rule much like the MLB eligibility rules. You can either go to a junior college, where you will be eligible for the draft at the end of your first and second seasons, or you can go to a four-year university like Duke, where you will not be eligible for the pros until you finish your junior year or turn 21. Problem solved.

But in the meantime, how about enjoying what these kids are doing instead of coming to a college b'ball board and complaining how bad the talent is. The kids playing can't help it that NBA talent is leaving after 1 year of college.

Except that talent isn't the problem, not exactly. There were a grand total of 9 freshmen drafted in the 2012 draft. Do you really think forcing those 9 guys to attend a sophomore year of college would make an appreciable difference in scoring or overall level of play this season? I don't. It certainly wouldn't have made a difference in this Syracuse-Marquette game. Neither of those teams had a one-and-done guy last season.

Moreover, I can prove that your solution doesn't work, because we already tried it. The one-and-done rule was instituted in 2006 to force guys who would have jumped straight from high school to at least play one college season. LeBron didn't play in college, but Kevin Durant did. Did the requirement help scoring? Not so as you could tell. Points per game since the one-and-done's institution have continued its long-term slide. It was 70.5 ppg in 2000, it had fallen to 69.3 in 2010, and it is 68.1 this year.

This is setting aside the fact that you don't seem to know how the MLB draft setup works. The baseball system allows players to choose between applying for the draft out of high school or playing in college through (usually) junior year. While that setup is unlikely to be established in college basketball, your version--2 years in a juco or 4 years at a full-fledged university--is never ever ever going to be accepted by the player's union. Nor should it, since it doesn't make any sense.

I can't say for sure what, if anything, will improve the level of play in college ball. A change in refereeing worked wonders for the NBA, but who knows if that will do the same trick here. In any case, we are all agreed that the college product is suffering. So why chase away someone who mentions that unpleasant truth?

Spret42
04-01-2013, 02:13 PM
That's not 100% fair to the guy. There was a time, not especially long ago, when the NBA was a bad watch. By the late 90s scoring had cratered to a crisis point, and the game had come to be dominated by grabbing on the perimeter and wrestling in the post. So the NBA changed its rules. Handchecking was prohibited on the perimeter, and zone defenses were allowed (though I've never understood the argument for how that would boost scoring). Ten years later, anybody with eyes to see will admit the NBA is being played at a terrific level in an environment where the whole global talent pool can fluorish--not just the most jacked dude with the Kodiak stare. All of which is to say that if the college game has started to suck, it's alright to ask for change. I'd love to seeing scoring come back up. I'd love to see a cleaner, more open game. Wouldn't you?

The NCAA could fix this problem. They could change the way the game is refereed, and by rewarding skill, skill would come more to the fore. If they don't, they will probably lose some of the more casual fans of the game. Or even the less casual fans. I love Duke basketball, but when Duke isn't playing I'd rather watch a meaningless NBA game over your average major conference college matchup nine times out of ten. Maybe I'm a huge anomaly, but I kind of doubt it.

Thank you. This is exactly what I am thinking when it comes to college basketball. College coaches have so cranked up the defensive focus of the game; all the while hectoring and intimidating referees to the point where they are afraid to make a call. And the game is played just this short of a rugby match most of the time. It's ugly. Yes, bringing up the talent level would help. But the game being over coached and under reffed is just as big a problem.

There was a time when I could enjoy both high level college and NBA basketball that was well played. Currently college basketball is the only sport where the level of play and skill level of the participants is going down. So yes. It needs to be fixed. Now.