PDA

View Full Version : NC State departures



BD80
03-26-2013, 01:39 PM
According to "sources" NCState's Lorenzo Brown to declare for draft:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21952826/nc-states-lorenzo-brown-expected-to-declare-for-nba-draft

timmy c
03-26-2013, 01:45 PM
According to "sources" NCState's Lorenzo Brown to declare for draft:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21952826/nc-states-lorenzo-brown-expected-to-declare-for-nba-draft

Brownout?

Does this mean they have lowered the available voltage in Raleigh?

CDu
03-26-2013, 01:59 PM
Not a huge shock if true. With the weak draft class and the possibility that Brown would play more off the ball next year (with Cat Barber coming in), it sort of makes sense. Get out while you're still a potential 1st round pick.

Too bad for State though if true. Especially if that leads to Leslie leaving, too. That would leave the Pack with a very undersized and/or inexperienced frontcourt.

Duvall
03-26-2013, 02:06 PM
Zagoria reporting that both Leslie and Brown are leaving, but then again, it's just Zags. (http://zagsblog.com/nba-draft/n-c-states-leslie-brown-to-declare-for-nba-draft/)

CDu
03-26-2013, 02:10 PM
Zagoria reporting that both Leslie and Brown are leaving, but then again, it's just Zags. (http://zagsblog.com/nba-draft/n-c-states-leslie-brown-to-declare-for-nba-draft/)

If so, scratch State off the list of contenders for the ACC next year. They'll be less deep, less talented, and less experienced than they were this year when they underachieved to the 5th spot in the ACC.

Ichabod Drain
03-26-2013, 02:17 PM
If so, scratch State off the list of contenders for the ACC next year. They'll be less deep, less talented, and less experienced than they were this year when they underachieved to the 5th spot in the ACC.

They will definitely be less experienced but they have a decent class coming in;

Anthony Barber #6 PG
Beejay Anya #8 C
Kyle Washington #22 PF

Still going to be pretty good. As talented as Leslie is, he really hurt them sometimes this year. Better chemistry and more heart could take this team a lot farther. But I don't expect they will be able to compete with Duke and UNC next year.

dukelifer
03-26-2013, 02:25 PM
If so, scratch State off the list of contenders for the ACC next year. They'll be less deep, less talented, and less experienced than they were this year when they underachieved to the 5th spot in the ACC.

They will definitely struggle because of their youth- but I do like Tyler Lewis. Not a great athlete but can run the show and is sneaky good.

juise
03-26-2013, 02:35 PM
They will definitely struggle because of their youth- but I do like Tyler Lewis. Not a great athlete but can run the show and is sneaky when it comes to staying up past his bedtime.

Fixed it for ya. ;)


I wonder what kind of leaps Warren and Purvis will make. Losing Howell will be painful.

JasonEvans
03-26-2013, 02:41 PM
They will definitely be less experienced but they have a decent class coming in;

Anthony Barber #6 PG
Beejay Anya #8 C
Kyle Washington #22 PF

Still going to be pretty good. As talented as Leslie is, he really hurt them sometimes this year. Better chemistry and more heart could take this team a lot farther. But I don't expect they will be able to compete with Duke and UNC next year.

It is a very good class and Barber is likely to instantly start. The lineup will likely be:

Barber - PG
Lewis - PG2
Purvis - SF
Warren - PF
Anya or Jordan Vandenberg - C

Really young and no depth. They will not compete with the top of the ACC next year, I think. You mentioned Duke and UNC but don't forget about Syracuse, Pitt, and ND. I suspect that BC is ready to move up a bit to the middle of the ACC pack - they have everyone coming back. Virginia should be up there again -- they only lose Jontell Evans. It is very hard for me to see State being in the top half of the conference.

-Jason "Purvis and Warren will really need to carry the scoring load -- I won't be shocked if Warren leads the conference in scoring" Evans
Leslie -

davekay1971
03-26-2013, 02:48 PM
Fixed it for ya. ;)


I wonder what kind of leaps Warren and Purvis will make. Losing Howell will be painful.

Howell is their biggest loss, although losing Brown hurts pretty badly. I liked what I saw of Lewis, so even if Barber isn't quite ready for primetime, they're not stuck at PG. Purvis and Warren, if they make a good freshman to sophomore jump, which isn't uncommon at all, provide State with plenty of talent. But, unless Anya is ready to play as a freshman, they've got a big gaping hole at center that could make State next year look like UNC this year minus the great outside shooting. Ewwww....

CDu
03-26-2013, 02:48 PM
They will definitely be less experienced but they have a decent class coming in;

Anthony Barber #6 PG
Beejay Anya #8 C
Kyle Washington #22 PF

Still going to be pretty good. As talented as Leslie is, he really hurt them sometimes this year. Better chemistry and more heart could take this team a lot farther. But I don't expect they will be able to compete with Duke and UNC next year.

Yes, they have a decent recruiting class coming in. But, position by position, they are taking a step back:
PG: lose Brown, add Barber and improvements to Lewis (slight-to-big step down depending on how good Barber is and how good Lews gets)
Wing: Lose Wood, add improvements to Purvis and Warren (probably a wash, maybe an upgrade)
PF: lose Leslie, add Washington (very big step down)
C: lose Howell, add Anya and improvements to Vandenburg (very big step down)

They'll be okay, but they will not be as good as this year's team, and they won't be anywhere near the hunt for the ACC next year with that team. Teams like Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Pitt, UVa, and Notre Dame will all likely be better, and younger teams like FSU, Wake, and BC may sneak up on them too.

jimsumner
03-26-2013, 04:00 PM
Extraordinarily unlikely that Vandenberg will come back for his 5th year.

Purvis, Barber and Lewis is a decent guard rotation, albeit a bit undersized.

LSU transfer Ralston Turner should start at the 3, with Warren at the 4.

One of the frosh starts at the 5. By default.

Not a bad team. But very young and with lots of question marks.

Unless one or both of Purvis and Warren makes a jump to 1st-team All-ACC status, this is an NIT team

sagegrouse
03-26-2013, 04:17 PM
They will definitely struggle because of their youth- but I do like Tyler Lewis. Not a great athlete but can run the show and is sneaky good.

I agree that Lewis is a good player but worry, along with the Crazies, that the 9PM games will keep him up past his bedtime, with a predictable decline in efficiency.

sagegrouse

BD80
03-26-2013, 04:18 PM
... As talented as Leslie is, he really hurt them sometimes this year. ...

I know I'm falling for the ol' "potentential over production" meme, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Pistons spend their 2nd round pick on CJ (assuming RKelly is gone). They are developing a good core of gym rat mentalities, and CJ might do better in that setting with the need to prove himself than as the BMOC in Raliegh.

Jderf
03-26-2013, 04:20 PM
I agree that Lewis is a good player but worry, along with the Crazies, that the 9PM games will keep him up past his bedtime, with a predictable decline in efficiency.

sagegrouse

How dare you say that about Tyler's grandmother. You should be ashamed. I'm taking this to the media.

CDu
03-26-2013, 04:39 PM
Extraordinarily unlikely that Vandenberg will come back for his 5th year.

Purvis, Barber and Lewis is a decent guard rotation, albeit a bit undersized.

LSU transfer Ralston Turner should start at the 3, with Warren at the 4.

One of the frosh starts at the 5. By default.

Not a bad team. But very young and with lots of question marks.

Unless one or both of Purvis and Warren makes a jump to 1st-team All-ACC status, this is an NIT team

Yeah, I had forgotten about Turner. That is a nice addition, and their PG-SF spots will be quite talented (but very young and with no proven leaders). A perimeter rotation of Barber, Purvis, Turner, and Lewis could end up being solid. But that still leaves them incredibly thin up front. Warren is a very undersized option at PF, and he's by far the best option they have (Washington is a bit of a project). And if Vandenburg leaves then Anya is the only center on the roster. And he's a freshman.

That roster is not all that different from the roster Wake put on the floor this year. Probably better at PG, but probably not as good at C. And not as experienced at the star spots (Warren and Purvis vs McKie and Harris).

Duvall
03-26-2013, 06:08 PM
T.J. Warren also considering leaving? (http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/brown-warren-still-undecided-on-nba-future)

mr shadow 008
03-26-2013, 06:36 PM
I see that a lot of people are talking about Anthony Barber as a potential upgrade for State next year. I've watched Barber play in person a few times the past two years. He is very quick but tends to play out of control quite a bit of the time, nor is he a very good passer. He has a score first mentality, though he has improved upon this from last year. Also, he has to put up a lot of shots to get his points.

CoachJ10
03-26-2013, 07:45 PM
I will set the over/under on minutes that Lorenzo Brown plays in the NBA next season at 5.

Lo should start learning some Russia or Italian...that's where he will be playing next season...

tommy
03-26-2013, 08:52 PM
I will set the over/under on minutes that Lorenzo Brown plays in the NBA next season at 5.

Lo should start learning some Russia or Italian...that's where he will be playing next season...

If it's Italy, he'll learn this for sure: Ho bisogno di piu tocchi.

JasonEvans
03-27-2013, 02:07 AM
I will set the over/under on minutes that Lorenzo Brown plays in the NBA next season at 5.

Lo should start learning some Russia or Italian...that's where he will be playing next season...

Oh I dunno about that. Most mock drafts have him going at the very end of the first or early in the 2nd round of the draft. I would be surprised if he did not make an NBA roster if he was drafted in the first ten picks of the 2nd round. Obviously, it will depend upon how his workouts go. Sneaking into the first round is not impossible for him. That is why he is thinking about coming out.

-Jason "Brown can play at the next level. I don't think he can be an impact starter, but he can be in a team's 10-man rotation" Evans

JNort
03-28-2013, 01:21 AM
Yes, they have a decent recruiting class coming in. But, position by position, they are taking a step back:
PG: lose Brown, add Barber and improvements to Lewis (slight-to-big step down depending on how good Barber is and how good Lews gets)
Wing: Lose Wood, add improvements to Purvis and Warren (probably a wash, maybe an upgrade)
PF: lose Leslie, add Washington (very big step down)
C: lose Howell, add Anya and improvements to Vandenburg (very big step down)

They'll be okay, but they will not be as good as this year's team, and they won't be anywhere near the hunt for the ACC next year with that team. Teams like Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Pitt, UVa, and Notre Dame will all likely be better, and younger teams like FSU, Wake, and BC may sneak up on them too.



How I see it (The losses):

PG: Yes they lose Brown who is/was arguably the best pg in the ACC along with Larkin. He had size and could score very well in the paint and in transition.

SG: They lose Wood who was the best 3pt shooter on the team as well as free throw shooter

PF: Lose Leslie who when he wants to be is the best player in the conference and one of the toughest in the country to defend. Super athletic

C: Howell who even though was undersized and overlooked going into the season emerged as States most consistent player on offense and defense. He also was a top notch rebounder.


(The improvements):

PG: Tyler Lewis should make the jump that many freshmen pgs do going into their 2nd year. I thought he should have started all year with Brown at the same time this past season. He was surprisingly very good for a freshmen on a dysfunctional team. He is a better more willing passer than Zo and should be benefited with Leslie gone. Brown may have been a very good assist man, great even but Tyler can give them a true leader which is something Lorenzo never for some reason developed.

PG: Barber.... This is I guess more of a TBD right now.

SG/SF: Purvis should improve in his shooting, ability as well as decision making and strength now with a season under him as well. He as well as Warren I think will be the go to scoring guys next year for State. Purvis I think will drastically improve more than anyone else on States roster mostly because he is a slasher/scoring minded player. Playing this past year really took him out of his element having to defer to ZO, Leslie, Howell and Wood I look for him to be more aggressive and probably be the surprise guy next year and maybe be 1st or 2nd team All ACC.

SF/PF: Warren as I said previously should become a go to scorer next year. I think he will be the silently efficient type of scorer who puts up numbers all night and you just don't realize it till you look at the box score. He is much more team oriented than Leslie (Who isn't?) and will be able to stretch the floor better also. He shot 62% as a freshmen SF/PF and though he didn't shoot them very often he hit over 50% from 3.


C: This is where I see a true big loss. However maybe Anya can come in and be serviceable right away. If Anya and Vandenberg can provide solid defense and rebounding I think State can get by

The Overall Picture:

Offense: Should/could be smoother and less forced than this past year, at least more team oriented anyhow. Lewis naturally looks to pass and isnt a bad shooter either, he probably will get more respect than Brown as a shooter. Wood was a one trick pony to the highest degree and I think State vastly improves with him gone, they lose an all caliber shooter but as a team they will have more range and more guys who can handle the ball. Leslie won't be there to ball stop and teams will have to stretch out further on Warren than they did Leslie. Rebounding I suspect will take the biggest hit as well as transition offense but overall team chemistry and scoring ability/variety should be better.

Defense: SCOTT WOOD IS GONE!!!!!!! He was tall which helped him rebound but gah was he a bad on and off ball at defending. Purvis was better in defense last year and should be even better next. Leslie made a lot of boneheaded defensive plays and gambled waayy to much, I expect Warren to be more level headed.

Chemistry: I think everyone will agree this was a big problem last season. Leslie was a "me" player, Brown who was very good I think was a little to willing to give the ball up to Wood, Leslie, and Howell . Brown will be missed in transition but I trust Lewis in the halfcourt with less pressure on him and his teammates next season. Purvis also no longer has to worry about sharing with the upper class and is now the "go-to-guy"

I think State makes the tourny next year as well but time will tell I think the rebounding will be the only real major hit but it will be more than made up for in a team aspect


They will finish above UNC, unless of course Wiggins commits (Maybe even still).

JNort
03-28-2013, 01:30 AM
Yeah, I had forgotten about Turner. That is a nice addition, and their PG-SF spots will be quite talented (but very young and with no proven leaders). A perimeter rotation of Barber, Purvis, Turner, and Lewis could end up being solid. But that still leaves them incredibly thin up front. Warren is a very undersized option at PF, and he's by far the best option they have (Washington is a bit of a project). And if Vandenburg leaves then Anya is the only center on the roster. And he's a freshman.

That roster is not all that different from the roster Wake put on the floor this year. Probably better at PG, but probably not as good at C. And not as experienced at the star spots (Warren and Purvis vs McKie and Harris).

I like you forgot. I know people say that 1-3 are talented and 4-5 might be the downfall but I disagree. The 4 spot will be fine with Warren, the real question is the 5 but not as much as you think! Rebounding and consistency from Howell are what your are trying to replace but it can be more than made up for with team work and variety on offense.

CDu
03-28-2013, 09:07 AM
How I see it (The losses):
PG: Yes they lose Brown who is/was arguably the best pg in the ACC along with Larkin. He had size and could score very well in the paint and in transition.
SG: They lose Wood who was the best 3pt shooter on the team as well as free throw shooter
PF: Lose Leslie who when he wants to be is the best player in the conference and one of the toughest in the country to defend. Super athletic
C: Howell who even though was undersized and overlooked going into the season emerged as States most consistent player on offense and defense. He also was a top notch rebounder.

(The improvements):
PG: Tyler Lewis should make the jump that many freshmen pgs do going into their 2nd year. I thought he should have started all year with Brown at the same time this past season. He was surprisingly very good for a freshmen on a dysfunctional team. He is a better more willing passer than Zo and should be benefited with Leslie gone. Brown may have been a very good assist man, great even but Tyler can give them a true leader which is something Lorenzo never for some reason developed.
PG: Barber.... This is I guess more of a TBD right now.
SG/SF: Purvis should improve in his shooting, ability as well as decision making and strength now with a season under him as well. He as well as Warren I think will be the go to scoring guys next year for State. Purvis I think will drastically improve more than anyone else on States roster mostly because he is a slasher/scoring minded player. Playing this past year really took him out of his element having to defer to ZO, Leslie, Howell and Wood I look for him to be more aggressive and probably be the surprise guy next year and maybe be 1st or 2nd team All ACC.
SF/PF: Warren as I said previously should become a go to scorer next year. I think he will be the silently efficient type of scorer who puts up numbers all night and you just don't realize it till you look at the box score. He is much more team oriented than Leslie (Who isn't?) and will be able to stretch the floor better also. He shot 62% as a freshmen SF/PF and though he didn't shoot them very often he hit over 50% from 3.
C: This is where I see a true big loss. However maybe Anya can come in and be serviceable right away. If Anya and Vandenberg can provide solid defense and rebounding I think State can get by

The Overall Picture:
Offense: Should/could be smoother and less forced than this past year, at least more team oriented anyhow. Lewis naturally looks to pass and isnt a bad shooter either, he probably will get more respect than Brown as a shooter. Wood was a one trick pony to the highest degree and I think State vastly improves with him gone, they lose an all caliber shooter but as a team they will have more range and more guys who can handle the ball. Leslie won't be there to ball stop and teams will have to stretch out further on Warren than they did Leslie. Rebounding I suspect will take the biggest hit as well as transition offense but overall team chemistry and scoring ability/variety should be better.
Defense: SCOTT WOOD IS GONE!!!!!!! He was tall which helped him rebound but gah was he a bad on and off ball at defending. Purvis was better in defense last year and should be even better next. Leslie made a lot of boneheaded defensive plays and gambled waayy to much, I expect Warren to be more level headed.
Chemistry: I think everyone will agree this was a big problem last season. Leslie was a "me" player, Brown who was very good I think was a little to willing to give the ball up to Wood, Leslie, and Howell . Brown will be missed in transition but I trust Lewis in the halfcourt with less pressure on him and his teammates next season. Purvis also no longer has to worry about sharing with the upper class and is now the "go-to-guy"

I think State makes the tourny next year as well but time will tell I think the rebounding will be the only real major hit but it will be more than made up for in a team aspect

They will finish above UNC, unless of course Wiggins commits (Maybe even still).


I like you forgot. I know people say that 1-3 are talented and 4-5 might be the downfall but I disagree. The 4 spot will be fine with Warren, the real question is the 5 but not as much as you think! Rebounding and consistency from Howell are what your are trying to replace but it can be more than made up for with team work and variety on offense.

I think you are vastly underestimating how big losing Howell, Leslie, Wood, and Brown would be. That is all of their rebounding, all of their interior scoring, all of their playmaking, and all of their size inside.

Warren had a terrific year this year. But he did so in large part because he was the 4th/5th option on the floor. Defenses were much more concerned with Howell, Leslie, Brown, and Wood, and they'd sometimes forget about Warren. Warren did all of his scoring work on the periphery, and the offense ran through Howell, Leslie, and Brown. Next year, Warren will become a focal point for defenses, and I don't think it's solid to assume he'll just make the transition smoothly. He'd also be VERY undersized at PF, which would hurt them on the defensive end.

Also, a big part of State's offensive efficiency was a result of their ability to offensive rebound. Losing Howell and Leslie hurts there. A LOT. I see virtually no way that Warren, Anya, Washington, and Vandenburg offset that loss.

And let's talk about defense. State's only threats defensively were the steal by Brown or Leslie, the occasional block by Leslie, and the sensational rebounding of Howell. They were not a good defensive team otherwise. Taking away Brown, Leslie, and Howell takes away the only 3 players who cause problems defensively. Warren is a terrible defender, Lewis is pretty bad at it, as is Vandenburg. Purvis is solid, and Turner is probably an upgrade over Wood. But that still leaves State (already a poor defensive team) without its security blankets defensively.

State will have no rebounding presence, no shotblocking presence, no post scoring presence, no go-to scorer (unless Warren or Purvis suddenly shows that ability), no depth, no experience, and very little size. That's a far worse combination in my opinion than what they have now.

Also, I see virtually no way (aside from surprising departures from UNC or injuries) that State ends up ahead of UNC next year. If Bullock and Hairston stay, that's going to be a pretty good team. Not a great team, but pretty good. I can't say the same for State. In fact, I'd take UNC's players over State's players at nearly every spot on the floor (PG is the only spot I'd give State an edge, and Paige could potentially negate that with improvement).

SupaDave
03-28-2013, 09:33 AM
I think you are vastly underestimating how big losing Howell, Leslie, Wood, and Brown would be. That is all of their rebounding, all of their interior scoring, all of their playmaking, and all of their size inside.

Yep, this is an NC State version of a UNC defection. Even with MORE talent we see how that has worked out for UNC in past years.

Lar77
03-28-2013, 09:41 AM
I think you are vastly underestimating how big losing Howell, Leslie, Wood, and Brown would be. That is all of their rebounding, all of their interior scoring, all of their playmaking, and all of their size inside.

Warren had a terrific year this year. But he did so in large part because he was the 4th/5th option on the floor. Defenses were much more concerned with Howell, Leslie, Brown, and Wood, and they'd sometimes forget about Warren. Warren did all of his scoring work on the periphery, and the offense ran through Howell, Leslie, and Brown. Next year, Warren will become a focal point for defenses, and I don't think it's solid to assume he'll just make the transition smoothly. He'd also be VERY undersized at PF, which would hurt them on the defensive end.

Also, a big part of State's offensive efficiency was a result of their ability to offensive rebound. Losing Howell and Leslie hurts there. A LOT. I see virtually no way that Warren, Anya, Washington, and Vandenburg offset that loss.

And let's talk about defense. State's only threats defensively were the steal by Brown or Leslie, the occasional block by Leslie, and the sensational rebounding of Howell. They were not a good defensive team otherwise. Taking away Brown, Leslie, and Howell takes away the only 3 players who cause problems defensively. Warren is a terrible defender, Lewis is pretty bad at it, as is Vandenburg. Purvis is solid, and Turner is probably an upgrade over Wood. But that still leaves State (already a poor defensive team) without its security blankets defensively.

State will have no rebounding presence, no shotblocking presence, no post scoring presence, no go-to scorer (unless Warren or Purvis suddenly shows that ability), no depth, no experience, and very little size. That's a far worse combination in my opinion than what they have now.

Also, I see virtually no way (aside from surprising departures from UNC or injuries) that State ends up ahead of UNC next year. If Bullock and Hairston stay, that's going to be a pretty good team. Not a great team, but pretty good. I can't say the same for State. In fact, I'd take UNC's players over State's players at nearly every spot on the floor (PG is the only spot I'd give State an edge, and Paige could potentially negate that with improvement).

I agree that losing Howell, Brown and Wood will hurt State tremendously. I'm not counting Leslie out yet, but in the likely event he leaves, State is going to have a tough year.

Howell is a beast and held that team together (both games against us). Despite Wood's defensive issues, he was critical to several of their wins and opened things up for Warren. Brown pre-injury was the best PG in the conference (although Larkin surpassed him), and while Lewis was a good sub and better than expected, it's a big dropoff. Calvin was the best player in the league when he was Calvin and not CJ and if he can get his head together, he will be a good pro.

Put it all together and the Pack is a middle of the pack at best (remember we have four teams coming in who have consistent NCAA calibre programs) and behind UNC (which has to hurt).

jimsumner
03-28-2013, 01:03 PM
FWIW, State has a 2 P.M. presser today, with Gottfried and Brown.

FWIW2, any analysis of NCSU for next season that omits Ralston Turner is fundamentally flawed. He's an athletic 6-6 wing, who averaged double-figures in scoring at LSU. He'll start and contribute at a high level.

BD80
03-28-2013, 01:08 PM
... FWIW2, any analysis of NCSU for next season that omits Ralston Turner is fundamentally flawed. He's an athletic 6-6 wing, who averaged double-figures in scoring at LSU. He'll start and contribute at a high level.

Boy, I wish Duke could get someone like that to add to the team next year! Experienced, talented and athletic wing!

Maybe two? ;)

wilko
03-28-2013, 01:21 PM
Yep, this is an NC State version of a UNC defection. Even with MORE talent we see how that has worked out for UNC in past years.

Speaking of UNC, any news on what the immediate future may hold for them?
Anyone publicly said they are staying/gone?

Duvall
03-28-2013, 01:36 PM
Speaking of UNC, any news on what the immediate future may hold for them?
Anyone publicly said they are staying/gone?

Hairston and Bullock are both undecided. (https://mobile.twitter.com/_andrewcarter/status/317326107793842177?p=v)

BD80
03-28-2013, 01:45 PM
Speaking of UNC, any news on what the immediate future may hold for them?
Anyone publicly said they are staying/gone?

They won't make any announcement until their season is over.

Oh, wait ....

jimsumner
03-28-2013, 02:02 PM
In case you were wondering.

"NC State junior guard Lorenzo Brown has announced that he will forego his final season of eligibility and enter his name into the 2013 NBA Draft.

Brown, a second-team All-ACC selection by both the media and coaches in 2012-13, averaged 12.4 points, led the league in assists (7.2/gm) and ranked second in the conference in steals (2.0/gm). He started 32 contests this season.

"I feel that it is in my best interest and the best interest of my family to make this move now," said Brown. "I have enjoyed my NC State career and it has been a privilege to be a part of rebuilding this program. I am proud to be a member of the Pack for life."

Brown started 95 of the 101 games he played during his collegiate career. He averaged 11.6 points during his three campaigns and is one of only three players in school history to record over 500 career assists (589).

"We are grateful to Lorenzo for his contributions to our program and wish him nothing but the best in the future," said State head coach Mark Gottfried. "I am looking forward to watching him play basketball for many years to come." "

CDu
03-28-2013, 02:10 PM
FWIW, State has a 2 P.M. presser today, with Gottfried and Brown.

FWIW2, any analysis of NCSU for next season that omits Ralston Turner is fundamentally flawed. He's an athletic 6-6 wing, who averaged double-figures in scoring at LSU. He'll start and contribute at a high level.

Yes, Turner is a good addition. However, he and the 3 freshmen (and any improvements from their current roster) would not offset the loss of Howell, Wood, Brown, and Leslie.

jimsumner
03-28-2013, 02:26 PM
Yes, Turner is a good addition. However, he and the 3 freshmen (and any improvements from their current roster) would not offset the loss of Howell, Wood, Brown, and Leslie.

Oh, I agree. I've already stated that I think State is an NIT team next year. But a number of posters who have speculated on their 2013-14 lineup don't even seem to know that he's in the program.

Bluedog
03-28-2013, 02:42 PM
Speaking of UNC, any news on what the immediate future may hold for them?
Anyone publicly said they are staying/gone?

McAdoo asked on twitter what people's opinions were of a particular Mercedes sedan....But maybe his pop is getting is for him.

jimsumner
03-28-2013, 02:43 PM
McAdoo asked on twitter what people's opinions were of a particular Mercedes sedan....But maybe his pop is getting is for him.

Or his uncle?

flyingdutchdevil
03-28-2013, 02:45 PM
McAdoo asked on twitter what people's opinions were of a particular Mercedes sedan....But maybe his pop is getting is for him.

Or maybe a "friend" (read: agent, AAU coach, or Michael Jordan) got it for him ;). I heard that McAdoo is getting the sedan for his academic tutor. He wanted to thank him for taking all his tests, writing all his papers, and even raising his hand from time to time and ending with, "this is James McAdoo, least efficient player on this year's team."

Did I go too far?

jimsumner
03-28-2013, 03:06 PM
Or maybe a "friend" (read: agent, AAU coach, or Michael Jordan) got it for him ;). I heard that McAdoo is getting the sedan for his academic tutor. He wanted to thank him for taking all his tests, writing all his papers, and even raising his hand from time to time and ending with, "this is James McAdoo, least efficient player on this year's team."

Did I go too far?

There is a wide misconception that James Michael McAdoo is Robert McAdoo's son. His father is Ronnie McAdoo, who played at Old Dominion but did not make a lot of money in the pros.

Robert and Ronnie are cousins and James Michael considers Robert to be his uncle.

Hence the reference.

CDu
03-28-2013, 03:07 PM
Oh, I agree. I've already stated that I think State is an NIT team next year. But a number of posters who have speculated on their 2013-14 lineup don't even seem to know that he's in the program.

Ah, I gotcha. Nevermind my post then. My bad.

flyingdutchdevil
03-28-2013, 03:14 PM
There is a wide misconception that James Michael McAdoo is Robert McAdoo's son. His father is Ronnie McAdoo, who played at Old Dominion but did not make a lot of money in the pros.

Robert and Ronnie are cousins and James Michael considers Robert to be his uncle.

Hence the reference.

My bad. I assume that a ton of people get this wrong, huh?

jimsumner
03-28-2013, 03:27 PM
My bad. I assume that a ton of people get this wrong, huh?

Yep.

FWIW, Robert McAdoo is an assistant coach for the Miami Heat. Meaning, he's one of Shane Battier's coaches.

Ronnie is an account exec for Pepsi-Cola.

So, no reason to think that James Michael has significant financial imperatives pushing him to leave.

Then again, neither did Mike Dunleavy, Gerald Henderson, Kyrie Irving or Austin Rivers, among others

It's a business decision and McAdoo and his Carolina teammates face the same decision-making process faced by lots of Duke players in recent decades.

BD80
03-28-2013, 04:55 PM
... no reason to think that James Michael has significant financial imperatives pushing him to leave.

Then again, neither did Mike Dunleavy, Gerald Henderson, Kyrie Irving or Austin Rivers, among others

It's a business decision and McAdoo and his Carolina teammates face the same decision-making process faced by lots of Duke players in recent decades.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

It can be more emotional than business. Which tar heel compared his time in chapel hell to prison?

Olympic Fan
03-28-2013, 05:34 PM
Just wanted to add for all of your making State projections, I wouldn't include Vanderberg. I know he was very unhappy with how he was used -- or rather not used -- by Gottfried last season. On several occasions, he refused to go into games at garbage time.

Think it's VERY likely that he shows up somewhere else as a "grad student" -- some place where he can get significasnt minutes.

Not that it's a big loss, but I think there's more chance that Leslie is back than Vandenberg.

Also, lots of rumors in Raleigh about kids bailing -- we'll see how that plays out ... especially if Gottfried does bolt for UCLA.

CDu
03-28-2013, 06:14 PM
Just wanted to add for all of your making State projections, I wouldn't include Vanderberg. I know he was very unhappy with how he was used -- or rather not used -- by Gottfried last season. On several occasions, he refused to go into games at garbage time.

Think it's VERY likely that he shows up somewhere else as a "grad student" -- some place where he can get significasnt minutes.

Not that it's a big loss, but I think there's more chance that Leslie is back than Vandenberg.

Also, lots of rumors in Raleigh about kids bailing -- we'll see how that plays out ... especially if Gottfried does bolt for UCLA.

Yeah, I didn't want to get caught in a rumor-mongering situation, but one can find discussion regarding potential exits (beyond just Brown and possibly Leslie) if one wants to look (just check out any of the wolfpack fan sites).

State could be very good next year (if Leslie decides to return and commit himself to a focused, in-control game night in and night out) or very bad (if some of the other kids leave too).

juise
04-01-2013, 11:53 AM
CJ Leslie is headed to the draft (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/id/9120435/nc-state-wolfpack-scoring-leader-cj-leslie-enter-nba-draft).

Bluedog
04-01-2013, 01:03 PM
CJ Leslie is headed to the draft (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/id/9120435/nc-state-wolfpack-scoring-leader-cj-leslie-enter-nba-draft).

"[Leslie] is ranked 57th overall and 10th at power forward among NBA draft prospects by ESPN.com's Chad Ford."
:eek:

I don't really understand why guys go when they aren't guaranteed to go in the first round, but I guess sometimes you take a risk. Leslie clearly has the potential, he just was wildly inconsistent this season and seemed to be a bit of a headcase at times. When was the last time the preseason ACC player of the year didn't make one of the first two ACC teams? I hope to see good things out of him, though.

Here is a Turtle
04-01-2013, 01:12 PM
Yeah. Doesn't seem smart. Reminds be of Jordan Williams from Maryland who left too early and barely got drafted. Could use one more year to help his stock. They have good pieces coming back.

Duvall
04-01-2013, 02:28 PM
Yeah, I didn't want to get caught in a rumor-mongering situation, but one can find discussion regarding potential exits (beyond just Brown and possibly Leslie) if one wants to look (just check out any of the wolfpack fan sites).

State could be very good next year (if Leslie decides to return and commit himself to a focused, in-control game night in and night out) or very bad (if some of the other kids leave too).

Rumors no more - looks like Purvis will be transferring, per the N&O. (https://mobile.twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/318789423187759104?p=v)

Bizarre.

Here is a Turtle
04-01-2013, 02:33 PM
Is this an April Fools Joke? Wow. Breaks completely fell off. What happened?

hurleyfor3
04-01-2013, 02:37 PM
Did they win the national championship or something?

tbyers11
04-01-2013, 02:38 PM
(Didn't think this belonged in what is now the NBA Early-Entry Thread.)



Rumors no more - looks like Purvis will be transferring, per the N&O. (https://mobile.twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/318789423187759104?p=v)

Bizarre.

I figured Leslie was gone, but Purvis going elsewhere too. Wow! What is Gottfried doing to these guys? Brown and Leslie are very good college players and the Pack could have made some noise next year if everyone came back. Wood, and especially Howell, would have been tough to replace but Barber, Anya and the LSU transfer would have made them an upper division ACC and NCAA tourney team.

Dev11
04-01-2013, 02:59 PM
So that's NC State's entire starting lineup gone, yes? Rough for Gottfried

Duvall
04-01-2013, 03:04 PM
So that's NC State's entire starting lineup gone, yes? Rough for Gottfried

Well, T.J. Warren started the last ten games, and he's only undecided about leaving for the NBA.

turnandburn55
04-01-2013, 03:13 PM
"[Leslie] is ranked 57th overall and 10th at power forward among NBA draft prospects by ESPN.com's Chad Ford."
:eek:

I don't really understand why guys go when they aren't guaranteed to go in the first round, but I guess sometimes you take a risk. Leslie clearly has the potential, he just was wildly inconsistent this season and seemed to be a bit of a headcase at times. When was the last time the preseason ACC player of the year didn't make one of the first two ACC teams? I hope to see good things out of him, though.

Probably not dis-similar from why guys like Shav Randolph and Josh McRoberts left-- they'd been reading their own press for a long time, weren't all that thrilled with their time in school, and procedural inertia caused them to join the draft. "Hey, Carlos Boozer was a 2nd round pick too, and he made it! So can I!"

Duvall
04-01-2013, 03:16 PM
Probably not dis-similar from why guys like Shav Randolph and Josh McRoberts left-- they'd been reading their own press for a long time, weren't all that thrilled with their time in school, and procedural inertia caused them to join the draft. "Hey, Carlos Boozer was a 2nd round pick too, and he made it! So can I!"

To be fair, both Randolph and McRoberts have made pretty comfortable livings from professional basketball.

sfinleyo
04-01-2013, 03:18 PM
I wonder why, when he'd be the go-to guy next year?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/04/01/3953301/freshman-rodney-purvis-is-transferring.html

Li_Duke
04-01-2013, 03:29 PM
I wonder why, when he'd be the go-to guy next year?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/04/01/3953301/freshman-rodney-purvis-is-transferring.html

I'll believe it when I see it. I'm tempted to think this is an April Fool's joke. He started almost every game. He's going to get plenty of playing time next year considering who else is on their roster.

Cameron
04-01-2013, 03:33 PM
For State fans, that seems like a cruel joke. That'd be like reading in the The Chronicle that K died and wouldn't be coming back next season. Bizarre April Fool's joke.

Native
04-01-2013, 03:33 PM
Still not entirely sure this isn't an April Fools' joke, although the News and Observer (http://blogs.newsobserver.com/statenow/purvis-to-transfer-from-nc-state) and PackPride (http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/2/1279714.html) are reporting it, along with Rodney Purvis's Twitter (https://twitter.com/rpurvis_0) going along with it.

If it is, it's pretty elaborate.

Cameron
04-01-2013, 03:40 PM
It would seem to me that it is true. I don't think Mark Gottfried and his staff would be too thrilled over that type of press. Joke or not, it doesn't make your program sound very good when arguably your best player tweets that he is transferring without any previously announced reason.

dukelifer
04-01-2013, 03:42 PM
never know- also never know if there are academic issues at play. Will wait and see.

JasonEvans
04-01-2013, 03:44 PM
There have been rumors of a Purvis transfer for a while. He and Warren supposedly did not get along well with each other and really did not get along with the coaching staff. I am shocked, shocked, that Mark Gottfried has turned out to be a very good recruiter who cannot coach worth a lick in-season and who brings plenty of "difficult" kids into the program. I ever would have suspected that from him.

-Jason "did I make a typo in that last sentence and leave out an N?!?'" Evans

theschwartz
04-01-2013, 03:49 PM
Zagsblog reporting it as well (http://zagsblog.com/transfers/n-c-states-purvis-trio-of-mountaineers-to-transfer/) but sourced from the N&O. My first thought also was that it was an April Fool's joke, and a really dumb one at that, but it's sounding pretty real. Yeah, I don't really get it either. He & Warren were gonna be the stars on that team next year. Meaningless speculation: maybe he realizes that everybody on the team is leaving (Warren might declare too) and the team would be pretty weak next year, despite a decent incoming class. More meaningless speculation: maybe Gottfried has given some kind of indication that he won't be back, especially considering his recent flirtation with UCLA.

UrinalCake
04-01-2013, 03:49 PM
If it is true, it doesn't surprise me. Their team is going to be awful next season. He might be the go-to guy, but they'll be "going to" the middle-to-bottom of the ACC. This season was their best chance at being relevant and they blew it, so why not get a fresh start at a better program?

roywhite
04-01-2013, 03:54 PM
Listened to David Glenn's radio show this afternoon; says the Purvis transfer story is legit, and also that T.J. Warren is looking at "the league" and considering jumping if he gets favorable feedback on his draft position.

Hard to believe that Warren would be a 1st rounder, but he, too, sounds like he's in a hurry to get out of Raleigh.
Approaching train wreck status.

Mike Corey
04-01-2013, 04:00 PM
Wolfpack basketball: From back to splat in no time flat.

Implosions like this make Duke's sustained success all the more impressive.

And it underscores the perils of cutting corners when building a program. You have to recruit pieces to a puzzle, not puzzles to the piece of work in Raleigh.

Cameron
04-01-2013, 04:04 PM
So, where will Mark Gottfried be transferring to? Or, more likely, who will replace him after he's relieved of his duties?

And the better question is, What insane list of candidates will Debbie Yow and Pack Pride conjure up this time? Bill Russell? Bill Clinton? (The latter Bill was a big Arkansas Hog fan back in the day, which would more than make him qualified to coach at N.C. State.)

brevity
04-01-2013, 04:20 PM
What insane list of candidates will Debbie Yow and Pack Pride conjure up this time?

Makes you wonder if Kellie Harper was the wrong NC State basketball coach to fire. Maybe she can take over the men's program. I'm pretty sure a few people on DBR would approve.

Among traditional (male) options, you have to think Wichita State's Gregg Marshall is at the top of any realistic list. His personal and professional life dances around the state of North Carolina, and he's about to enjoy his first Final Four. The average stud coach may not see the appeal of the Wolfpack, but Marshall would be different. Were HE interested to move into a BCS conference job, NC State would be one of the more attractive options.

Of course, there's no opening for a men's coach at NC State... yet.

bedeviled
04-01-2013, 04:22 PM
The grass-is-always-greener dream is devastatingly powerful in the Purvis scenario given that he initially committed to Louisville who is the darling of the world right now.
"Coach Pitino told me that I would be the best guard he's ever coached," said Purvis. (a quote from 2010 ESPN article on his commitment (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5909015)).
Now imagine how he must feel watching Smith and Siva getting all their glory.

loran16
04-01-2013, 04:39 PM
There have been rumors of a Purvis transfer for a while. He and Warren supposedly did not get along well with each other and really did not get along with the coaching staff. I am shocked, shocked, that Mark Gottfried has turned out to be a very good recruiter who cannot coach worth a lick in-season and who brings plenty of "difficult" kids into the program. I ever would have suspected that from him.

-Jason "did I make a typo in that last sentence and leave out an N?!?'" Evans

So, State gets two years of teams making the tourney, now gets to start being awful again. Sounds about right. Going to be the TJ Warren show next year for State. And that's about it.

UrinalCake
04-01-2013, 09:56 PM
Coming from the unsubstantiated rumor department is the notion that Tyler Lewis may transfer to Davidson, which was reported on the local sports talk show. The hits keep on coming....

lotusland
04-01-2013, 10:20 PM
Makes you wonder if Kellie Harper was the wrong NC State basketball coach to fire. Maybe she can take over the men's program. I'm pretty sure a few people on DBR would approve.

Among traditional (male) options, you have to think Wichita State's Gregg Marshall is at the top of any realistic list. His personal and professional life dances around the state of North Carolina, and he's about to enjoy his first Final Four. The average stud coach may not see the appeal of the Wolfpack, but Marshall would be different. Were HE interested to move into a BCS conference job, NC State would be one of the more attractive options.

Of course, there's no opening for a men's coach at NC State... yet.

Marshall removed himself frmo consideration for both NCSU and South Carolina last year which was very surprising to me since he does have ties to the area. I don't know what went on behind the scenes before his announcement other than he signed an extension with WSU. Marshall has proven he can win with moderate mid major level recruits so State would be lucky to get him if Got leaves. He plays a deliberate and physical style so Duke fans would probably learn to hate him too.

sporthenry
04-01-2013, 10:26 PM
I can't help but laugh at how UNC and NC State have reacted to recent transfers. When it happened to Duke, it was always a condemnation of the program and its future along with speculation that K lied to recruits. But now, when players like Drew II, Wears, Purvis, and Harrow transfer, those are all on the kids and they try to paint the kids as ingrates who want everything given to them.

PackMan97
04-01-2013, 10:26 PM
I am shocked, shocked, that Mark Gottfried has turned out to be a very good recruiter who cannot coach worth a lick in-season and who brings plenty of "difficult" kids into the program. I ever would have suspected that from him.

In his defense, that was his first recruiting class and was pretty much set by whomever Lowe had been targeting. Not trying to put on State colored glasses, just that the kids Gottfried has brought into the program aren't here yet.

OldPhiKap
04-01-2013, 10:49 PM
In his defense, that was his first recruiting class and was pretty much set by whomever Lowe had been targeting. Not trying to put on State colored glasses, just that the kids Gottfried has brought into the program aren't here yet.

I would like to think this is the case, and that State is on the road to relevance again like they should be. Cannot imagine that he is in trouble yet. Put another way, if State tossed him this early -- who in their right mind would take his place?

I like Gottfried, and State would make a big mistake by ailing to back him I think.

Chicken Little
04-01-2013, 10:54 PM
The Duke curse extends to regular season losses now? This is a pretty brutal strike.

UrinalCake
04-01-2013, 11:45 PM
I can't help but laugh at how UNC and NC State have reacted to recent transfers. When it happened to Duke, it was always a condemnation of the program and its future along with speculation that K lied to recruits. But now, when players like Drew II, Wears, Purvis, and Harrow transfer, those are all on the kids and they try to paint the kids as ingrates who want everything given to them.

In the eyes of UNC fans:

Elliot Williams = guy who hated Coach K so much he had to leave and then broke the rules so he could play right away
Alex Stephenson = martyr

JasonEvans
04-02-2013, 12:01 AM
Going to be the TJ Warren show next year for State. And that's about it.

What makes you think Warren is sticking around? His draft stock is probably higher than CJ Leslie's.

The talk of Got being canned is waaaay premature. He is bringing in another very nice class. Dude can clearly recruit, though it will be interesting to see if this year's troubles when there were expectations of a strong season affects his ability to woo recruits in the future.

-Jason "worth noting -- Howell, Brown, Leslie, and Wood... the core of this year's success... were all recruited by Lowe" Evans

TNTDevil
04-02-2013, 12:07 AM
I would like to think this is the case, and that State is on the road to relevance again like they should be. Cannot imagine that he is in trouble yet. Put another way, if State tossed him this early -- who in their right mind would take his place?

I like Gottfried, and State would make a big mistake by ailing to back him I think.WADR OPK, Gottfried openly praises Jim WankerForSayingThis Harrick as his mentor. Yikes! One of the scummiest of the scum...so I'm not sure how far I'd go backing him.

As for who would take his place, don't forget that Gottfried wasn't even on their radar when they finally ditched Lowe. State isn't an option for any "name" coach and hasn't been for a while now. Not since they ran Jimmy V out-of-town over some very minor violations.

FerryFor50
04-02-2013, 01:13 AM
In classic NCSU fashion, the fans are turning on Purvis. Lots of Twit-triol out there.

Classy bunch.

OldPhiKap
04-02-2013, 07:20 AM
WADR OPK, Gottfried openly praises Jim WankerForSayingThis Harrick as his mentor. Yikes! One of the scummiest of the scum...so I'm not sure how far I'd go backing him.

As for who would take his place, don't forget that Gottfried wasn't even on their radar when they finally ditched Lowe. State isn't an option for any "name" coach and hasn't been for a while now. Not since they ran Jimmy V out-of-town over some very minor violations.

Some would suggest that there is not a great deal of difference between Harrick and Valvano. But I do not begrudge any of the folks who worked under them when starting out. Sometimes we learn what not to do from mentors, too.

Regardless, I think we agree on the main point -- The State job is not as desired as it should/could be, and the administration screwed the pooch last time. That is why they need to stick by their guy here. If it was hard to bring in someone last time, it would be worse if prospective coaches knew that the admin did not have their back.

Matches
04-02-2013, 08:25 AM
The talk of Got being canned is waaaay premature. He is bringing in another very nice class. Dude can clearly recruit, though it will be interesting to see if this year's troubles when there were expectations of a strong season affects his ability to woo recruits in the future.



I agree he's not getting fired, if for no other reason than it would be beyond Debbie Yow to admit a mistake so quickly. I do not think Gott will be at NCSU very long though. His time at NC State is reminding me increasingly of the Doherty "era" in Chapel Hill. Like Gott, Doherty recruited quite well at first, but it wasn't sustainable - when you've got people transferring left and right (6 in 2 years under Gott), eventually word is going to get out and that Midas Recruiting Touch will vanish.

Some of the Gott turnover can, as you note, be attributed to the coaching change and those guys being Lowe's recruits. Purvis was a Gott recruit, though, as are Warren and Lewis. If those guys start leaving en masse, especially in a situation where they'd essentially be guaranteed PT next year, Gott will not be able to continue recruiting at a high level. Right now he has options and could get a job somewhere else - it wouldn't be hard to imagine him jumping ship and getting a fresh start somewhere else.

Cameron
04-02-2013, 08:55 AM
What makes you think Warren is sticking around? His draft stock is probably higher than CJ Leslie's.

The talk of Got being canned is waaaay premature. He is bringing in another very nice class. Dude can clearly recruit, though it will be interesting to see if this year's troubles when there were expectations of a strong season affects his ability to woo recruits in the future.

-Jason "worth noting -- Howell, Brown, Leslie, and Wood... the core of this year's success... were all recruited by Lowe" Evans

While I agree that Gottfried probably has at least a couple of more seasons -- if he wants them -- in Raleigh, as you alluded to above, he's not a good in-season coach. He is a scout. I think a reasonable coaching comparison is former Miami head coach Frank Haith. Haith was a rather excellent recruiter all things considered (i.e. as the leader of the basketball program at a football school whose fans view round balls as foreign objects). While at Miami, Haith was able to corral some really good talent -- Jack McClinton, Malcolm Grant, Reggie Johnson, Durand Scott and I believe also persuaded Kenny Kadji to join the Miami team after Kadji opted out of Florida. Aside from Shane Larkin, the core of Jim Larranaga's Sweet 16 team was pretty much the work of Frank Haith. Of course, Larranaga can coach during games and Haith cannot, and that's the difference.

I think each Haith and Gottfried will be fired, told to exit or leave voluntarily from their respective programs -- Missouri and N.C. State -- within the next two full seasons. They are cut from the same cloth, only to Gottfried's credit, he's a markedly better recruiter. But when you don't recruit the right pieces to the puzzle, as another poster pointed out (maybe it was you, Jason), are you really that great of a recruiter? I'm sure there are a lot of good public speakers who could go down to the local jail and pick up a couple of athletes with spin moves and jump shots..

lotusland
04-02-2013, 09:56 AM
While I agree that Gottfried probably has at least a couple of more seasons -- if he wants them -- in Raleigh, as you alluded to above, he's not a good in-season coach. He is a scout. I think a reasonable coaching comparison is former Miami head coach Frank Haith. Haith was a rather excellent recruiter all things considered (i.e. as the leader of the basketball program at a football school whose fans view round balls as foreign objects). While at Miami, Haith was able to corral some really good talent -- Jack McClinton, Malcolm Grant, Reggie Johnson, Durand Scott and I believe also persuaded Kenny Kadji to join the Miami team after Kadji opted out of Florida. Aside from Shane Larkin, the core of Jim Larranaga's Sweet 16 team was pretty much the work of Frank Haith. Of course, Larranaga can coach during games and Haith cannot, and that's the difference.

I think each Haith and Gottfried will be fired, told to exit or leave voluntarily from their respective programs -- Missouri and N.C. State -- within the next two full seasons. They are cut from the same cloth, only to Gottfried's credit, he's a markedly better recruiter. But when you don't recruit the right pieces to the puzzle, as another poster pointed out (maybe it was you, Jason), are you really that great of a recruiter? I'm sure there are a lot of good public speakers who could go down to the local jail and pick up a couple of athletes with spin moves and jump shots..

Wow Pack Pride looks like a train wreck now. Warren may go to the league, Lewis may transfer and Vandenberg is thought to be gone too and there are some other alleged, eh hem, non-basketball related issues being alluded to.

The word on Purvis is that apparently he wants to play PG because he thinks that is where he will best fit in the NBA. Supposedly his impending transfer has been known and expected for a while. Anyone think he'll end up at Louisville where he originally committed?

Slackerb
04-02-2013, 10:09 AM
Rodney Purvis will not be released to any ACC team, current or future.

lotusland
04-02-2013, 10:12 AM
Rodney Purvis will not be released to any ACC team, current or future.

Good point. I had actually forgotten temporarily that Louisville is in now.

Dev11
04-02-2013, 10:21 AM
Can we change the thread title to remove the April Fools reference? It doesn't sound like any of the announcements were jokes.

If State actually loses Warren, they are really going to stink up the joint next year.

Newton_14
04-02-2013, 12:57 PM
Can we change the thread title to remove the April Fools reference? It doesn't sound like any of the announcements were jokes.

If State actually loses Warren, they are really going to stink up the joint next year.


I am actually worried they lose Warren, Lewis, and Vanderburg. Gottfried would have to quickly offer scholarships to 2 and 3 Star recruits just to fill out a roster and have enough bodies to field a team. You would have to think that some of the 2 and 3 star recruits already committed to lesser schools would strongly consider a chance to get real minutes on an ACC squad.

But man what a trainwreck. As someone who pulls for State when they are not playing Duke, and has a strong passion for Big Four hoops (UNC can be good, they just have to lose to us, State, and Wake a lot), I really hate to see this.

Not sure what is going on in Raliegh, but this is a bad deal. If the worst happens and they lose their top 8 players, next season will be beyond ugly. Given that next season is the first of the "New ACC", with Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame coming in, it is not the ideal time to have something like this happen.

FerryFor50
04-02-2013, 12:59 PM
I am actually worried they lose Warren, Lewis, and Vanderburg. Gottfried would have to quickly offer scholarships to 2 and 3 Star recruits just to fill out a roster and have enough bodies to field a team. You would have to think that some of the 2 and 3 star recruits already committed to lesser schools would strongly consider a chance to get real minutes on an ACC squad.

But man what a trainwreck. As someone who pulls for State when they are not playing Duke, and has a strong passion for Big Four hoops (UNC can be good, they just have to lose to us, State, and Wake a lot), I really hate to see this.

Not sure what is going on in Raliegh, but this is a bad deal. If the worst happens and they lose their top 8 players, next season will be beyond ugly. Given that next season is the first of the "New ACC", with Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame coming in, it is not the ideal time to have something like this happen.

Sweet! I have all 4 years of my NCAA eligibility remaining!

NCSU basketball, here I come!

jimsumner
04-02-2013, 01:05 PM
The rumors of significant chemistry issues have been pretty credible for some time. Seniors Scott Wood and Richard Howell are solid citizens who would be welcomed in any locker room on the planet. But we all know what they saw about bad apples and barrels. And State had more than one bad apple. It just wasn't a cohesive bunch.

Lots of me-first-types.

Could be a buy-a-scorecard-kind-of-season for State next season.

Newton_14
04-02-2013, 01:11 PM
Sweet! I have all 4 years of my NCAA eligibility remaining!

NCSU basketball, here I come!

Sweet. You can be our DBR insider and give us the inside scoop on what's really going on in that program. :)

Bluedog
04-02-2013, 01:40 PM
Interesting how most schools restrict transferring to schools currently members of the ACC, future members, and then other schools that either they play in upcoming schedules or that the student is interested in previously (a la Justin Knox who wanted to go to UAB but Alabama wouldn't let him). Or Bo Ryan who restricted Uthoff from transferring to TWENTY-FIVE schools (Big Ten, ACC, Marquette, and Iowa State). What is wrong with coaches? Why do they have such power to determine the futures of their former student-athletes? Seems like the NCAA should change the rules - coaches shouldn't have supreme power. Coach K, on the other hand, let Gbinije transfer to Syracuse, an ACC school when he finally gets eligibility next year and the world didn't crumble. And people think Coach K is cruel?

CDu
04-02-2013, 01:47 PM
I am actually worried they lose Warren, Lewis, and Vanderburg. Gottfried would have to quickly offer scholarships to 2 and 3 Star recruits just to fill out a roster and have enough bodies to field a team. You would have to think that some of the 2 and 3 star recruits already committed to lesser schools would strongly consider a chance to get real minutes on an ACC squad.

I suspect that Gottfried will be hard on the recruiting trail for JuCo transfers and grad-student transfers as well as a few 2- and 3-star guys. If Lewis, Vandenburg, and Warren all leave, then State would have literally one player who is not a freshman or a walk-on (and that guy is a transfer who has never played for State).

My guess is that maybe some of these 3 are around. But regardless, State is going to need a serious influx of players just to field a team beyond the starting 5 (let alone a good team beyond the starting 5).

I agree that it's disappointing. State was looking like an interesting program heading into this season, fresh off a Sweet-16 and with talent to spare.

That being said, don't rule out a few transfers coming State's way (the door doesn't just swing one way at State).

g-money
04-02-2013, 02:13 PM
Not sure what is going on in Raliegh, but this is a bad deal. If the worst happens and they lose their top 8 players, next season will be beyond ugly. Given that next season is the first of the "New ACC", with Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame coming in, it is not the ideal time to have something like this happen.

That was my thought exactly: The ACC is about to get nasty. NC St had better get their act together fast, or they could be pushed into perennial bottom-feeder status.

Btw, I am pumped to see some of these new matchups in the coming years. Were it not for the scourge of one-and-done, we could be looking at the best college basketball conference ever. Let's hope football doesn't f--- it up.

devildeac
04-02-2013, 02:28 PM
I suspect that Gottfried will be hard on the recruiting trail for JuCo transfers and grad-student transfers as well as a few 2- and 3-star guys. If Lewis, Vandenburg, and Warren all leave, then State would have literally one player who is not a freshman or a walk-on (and that guy is a transfer who has never played for State).

My guess is that maybe some of these 3 are around. But regardless, State is going to need a serious influx of players just to field a team beyond the starting 5 (let alone a good team beyond the starting 5).

I agree that it's disappointing. State was looking like an interesting program heading into this season, fresh off a Sweet-16 and with talent to spare.

That being said, don't rule out a few transfers coming State's way (the door doesn't just swing one way at State).

Let's see, I think there is a list of 5th year/grad student "bigs" that someone posted here recently that might be available next season. Can't seem to place it...
;)

jimsumner
04-02-2013, 02:31 PM
Let's see, I think there is a list of 5th year/grad student "bigs" that someone posted here recently that might be available next season. Can't seem to place it...
;)

I wouldn't rule out a grad student for State. But I think they're a lot more likely to go the juco route for an instant infusion of experience.

MCFinARL
04-02-2013, 03:07 PM
Interesting how most schools restrict transferring to schools currently members of the ACC, future members, and then other schools that either they play in upcoming schedules or that the student is interested in previously (a la Justin Knox who wanted to go to UAB but Alabama wouldn't let him). Or Bo Ryan who restricted Uthoff from transferring to TWENTY-FIVE schools (Big Ten, ACC, Marquette, and Iowa State). What is wrong with coaches? Why do they have such power to determine the futures of their former student-athletes? Seems like the NCAA should change the rules - coaches shouldn't have supreme power. Coach K, on the other hand, let Gbinije transfer to Syracuse, an ACC school when he finally gets eligibility next year and the world didn't crumble. And people think Coach K is cruel?

Well, I don't subscribe to the idea that Coach K is cruel, but the Michael Gbinije transfer happened in late April, 2012, and Syracuse agreed to join the ACC (and vice versa) in July 2012, so Coach K did not release Gbinije to a school that was then officially a future ACC team.

lotusland
04-02-2013, 03:09 PM
Interesting how most schools restrict transferring to schools currently members of the ACC, future members, and then other schools that either they play in upcoming schedules or that the student is interested in previously (a la Justin Knox who wanted to go to UAB but Alabama wouldn't let him). Or Bo Ryan who restricted Uthoff from transferring to TWENTY-FIVE schools (Big Ten, ACC, Marquette, and Iowa State). What is wrong with coaches? Why do they have such power to determine the futures of their former student-athletes? Seems like the NCAA should change the rules - coaches shouldn't have supreme power. Coach K, on the other hand, let Gbinije transfer to Syracuse, an ACC school when he finally gets eligibility next year and the world didn't crumble. And people think Coach K is cruel?

So K would have no problem if Dre wanted to finish his carreer at State next year? Plenty of minutes available for a shooter in Raleigh next year. Just playing Devil's advocate (or Wolfpack's advocate as the case may be) not suggesting it is a realistic possibility.

Check that - for a 5th year grad transfer does K even have a say? either way do you think he would be a little chaffed by that?

devildeac
04-02-2013, 03:22 PM
I wouldn't rule out a grad student for State. But I think they're a lot more likely to go the juco route for an instant infusion of experience.

Perhaps one from column A and one from column B;).

Bluedog
04-02-2013, 03:42 PM
Well, I don't subscribe to the idea that Coach K is cruel, but the Michael Gbinije transfer happened in late April, 2012, and Syracuse agreed to join the ACC (and vice versa) in July 2012, so Coach K did not release Gbinije to a school that was then officially a future ACC team.

haha, wasn't saying anybody on this board did. But you have the timing off. Syracuse announced they were leaving the Big East for the ACC in September 2011, way before Gbinije left Duke. I think July 2012 was simply when they announced the exact season they were entering, but it was already known for some time they were joining the ACC shortly.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-19/syracuse-pittsburgh-to-join-atlantic-coast-conference-leaving-big-east.html
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/58434/dukes-michael-gbinije-lands-at-syracuse

CDu
04-02-2013, 04:13 PM
Perhaps one from column A and one from column B;).

Would not be surprised if it was at least one of each, and perhaps more than one from the JuCo route.

devildeac
04-02-2013, 09:32 PM
Would not be surprised if it was at least one of each, and perhaps more than one from the JuCo route.

The number of departures would certainly suggest/dictate that Gottfried work fast and furiously on several fronts, including those 2 and 3 star players someone mentioned above who are yet undecided.

CDu
04-03-2013, 09:50 AM
Per a couple of my NC State friends, State might actually get a guy coming back. No, not Harrow. This guy:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/45541/josh-davis

Davis is a solid PF who would be a good pickup for a team in need of quality play from the PF and C spots.

FerryFor50
04-03-2013, 09:57 AM
Per a couple of my NC State friends, State might actually get a guy coming back. No, not Harrow. This guy:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/45541/josh-davis

Davis is a solid PF who would be a good pickup for a team in need of quality play from the PF and C spots.

Is that even allowed? Transferring back to the school you transferred from?

If so, good get for State. Seems like a Howell clone.

CDu
04-03-2013, 10:00 AM
Is that even allowed? Transferring back to the school you transferred from?

I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed. He'd be a graduate transfer, and would be transferring outside of his conference (i.e., I can't see why Tulane would prevent that).


If so, good get for State. Seems like a Howell clone.

It would definitely be a good get for State. Davis is much lighter than Howell and a little less of a load around the rim, but he is similarly beastlike on the boards. If they get this guy and a few more quality additions and I'll retract my statement that State will be terrible next year.

FerryFor50
04-03-2013, 10:27 AM
It would definitely be a good get for State. Davis is much lighter than Howell and a little less of a load around the rim, but he is similarly beastlike on the boards. If they get this guy and a few more quality additions and I'll retract my statement that State will be terrible next year.

Yea, not as beefy... I meant in scoring and rebounding. Pretty good averages at Tulane...

CDu
04-03-2013, 10:56 AM
Yea, not as beefy... I meant in scoring and rebounding. Pretty good averages at Tulane...

Yeah, he's a very solid player. He's a high-energy guy with lots of hustle and effort. It would be an absolutely huge get for State. Actually, the more I think about it, I see a lot of similarities between the type of player Davis is and the type of player Leslie is. Obviously Leslie has more physical ability, but Davis seems to have less of the headcase-ness. So (if they were to get him) it would potentially be an even trade at the PF spot there.

UrinalCake
04-03-2013, 11:15 AM
.The word on Purvis is that apparently he wants to play PG because he thinks that is where he will best fit in the NBA. Supposedly his impending transfer has been known and expected for a while.

But now he could stay at State and play PG. In fact, he could play any position he wanted!

Olympic Fan
04-03-2013, 12:11 PM
But now he could stay at State and play PG. In fact, he could play any position he wanted!

I know you were just joking, but it's one of the weird aspects of the State problem is that the one position where they are loaded is at point. We got to see that Tyler Lewis (a former McDonald's AA) was a quality playmaker last season when Brown was hurt. Maybe a little small and a defensive liability (like a lot of freshmen), but a nice handler and distributor and a decent shooter. On top of that, their best incoming recruit is Cat Barber, a McDonald's All-American and projected to be a collegiate star.

That's something that worries some state fans. Can Barber and Lewis share the same backcourt? Okay, no problem with playing two point guards (Duke has great success with Dawkins and Amaker and Jason Williams and Chris Duhon) but both are small. As it now stands, they almost have to play two smallish PGs ... but if they get juco Desmond Lee, that might relegate Lewis to the backup role again. Envisioning Gottfried bringing in more wings in the future, could Lewis be doomed to be a career backup?

That's the concern -- that the prospect of being superceeded at point guard -- and becoming a career backup -- might cause Lewis to transfer too.

UrinalCake
04-03-2013, 12:16 PM
I thought it was known that Lewis was transferring. Forgot about Barber. My bad...

FerryFor50
04-03-2013, 12:23 PM
Yeah, he's a very solid player. He's a high-energy guy with lots of hustle and effort. It would be an absolutely huge get for State. Actually, the more I think about it, I see a lot of similarities between the type of player Davis is and the type of player Leslie is. Obviously Leslie has more physical ability, but Davis seems to have less of the headcase-ness. So (if they were to get him) it would potentially be an even trade at the PF spot there.

Hmm... Maybe Duke should take a look. :-D

CDu
04-03-2013, 12:25 PM
Hmm... Maybe Duke should take a look. :-D

Ha, I almost made the same remark in my post!

devilirium
04-03-2013, 01:32 PM
"Some would suggest that there is not a great deal of difference between Harrick and Valvano. But I do not begrudge any of the folks who worked under them when starting out. Sometimes we learn what not to do from mentors, too."

And sometimes we don't. I have seen Gottfried around Raleigh recently and a friend of mine has as well. Suffice to say, that inebriation and unacceptable behavior is very much of a part of his m.o. recently; and, some people close to the State program have privately stated that State's run was in part sabotaged by how Gottfried conducts himself. This guy is liable to implode sooner than later.

CDu
04-03-2013, 06:44 PM
It is sounding a bit more like Lewis and Warren will return, and State fans are very hopeful that Davis (a Raleigh native) will come back to State. If that happens, State is another guard and big man away from a potentially solid team.

PG: Barber/Lewis
SG: Turner
SF: Warren/Turner
PF: Davis/Washington
C: Anya/Vandenburg

They are also very interested in a JuCo SG (Desmond Lee), who averaged 20ppg in JuCo ball. Adding him would provide depth at the guard spot.

Would they be as good as this year's team? Probably not. But if that winds up being the squad that State rolls with next year, they'll be better than I thought they'd be. Amazing what one or two potential additions (along with no more subtractions) could do.

Jderf
04-03-2013, 08:17 PM
Amazing what one or two potential additions (along with no more subtractions) could do.

Pretty unique to basketball, really -- at least among the major sports. Just a couple of players can completely overhaul the makeup of an entire team.

Newton_14
04-03-2013, 08:19 PM
It is sounding a bit more like Lewis and Warren will return, and State fans are very hopeful that Davis (a Raleigh native) will come back to State. If that happens, State is another guard and big man away from a potentially solid team.

PG: Barber/Lewis
SG: Turner
SF: Warren/Turner
PF: Davis/Washington
C: Anya/Vandenburg

They are also very interested in a JuCo SG (Desmond Lee), who averaged 20ppg in JuCo ball. Adding him would provide depth at the guard spot.

Would they be as good as this year's team? Probably not. But if that winds up being the squad that State rolls with next year, they'll be better than I thought they'd be. Amazing what one or two potential additions (along with no more subtractions) could do.

Warren confirmed a couple of hours ago that he is coming back. That helps a lot. With Barber, Lewis, Warren, Turner, Anya that is at least 5 D1 quality players. Like u say, if they get the Davis kid back (likely) and the Juco guard (Possible) that is the 7 man rotation Gottfried likes to use, all being D1 quality guys. So that puts them back to a NIT level, possible NCAA Bubble level team.

So not as disastrous as the outlook just 24 hours ago...

CameronBornAndBred
04-05-2013, 02:48 PM
Purvis picks UCONN.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/nc-state-s-purvis-transferring-to-uconn/12310022/

Here is a Turtle
04-05-2013, 02:50 PM
Purvis picks UCONN.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/nc-state-s-purvis-transferring-to-uconn/12310022/

Not surprising. Pretty sure they were the runner up when he picked NC State.

CDu
04-09-2013, 09:40 AM
State has apparently landed JuCo star guard Desmond Lee (6'3" guard who averaged 20.3 ppg in JuCo last year). Assuming that Lewis stays, they should now have a pretty good backcourt (Barber, Lewis, Lee, Turner) and solid play at SF (Turner, Warren). If they are able to add Josh Davis (5th-year grad transfer from Tulane who averaged 17.6 ppg and 10.7 rpg last year), they should be solid at the PF spot (Warren, Davis, Washington). Their only real question mark will be at C, where they would have Davis, Anya, Vandenburg, and Washington.

Things aren't looking quite as dire in Raleigh as I had originally thought after the loss of Howell, Wood, Brown, Leslie, and Purvis. They won't be as good as last year's team, but that's still a potentially solid team.

roywhite
04-09-2013, 09:55 AM
State has apparently landed JuCo star guard Desmond Lee (6'3" guard who averaged 20.3 ppg in JuCo last year). Assuming that Lewis stays, they should now have a pretty good backcourt (Barber, Lewis, Lee, Turner) and solid play at SF (Turner, Warren). If they are able to add Josh Davis (5th-year grad transfer from Tulane who averaged 17.6 ppg and 10.7 rpg last year), they should be solid at the PF spot (Warren, Davis, Washington). Their only real question mark will be at C, where they would have Davis, Anya, Vandenburg, and Washington.

Things aren't looking quite as dire in Raleigh as I had originally thought after the loss of Howell, Wood, Brown, Leslie, and Purvis. They won't be as good as last year's team, but that's still a potentially solid team.

Interesting, and it does sound like they will have the potential to be decent to good.

Still some substantial downside IMO, lack of depth could be a problem esp. if injuries occur, and have they solved issues of team chemistry and coaching?
Give the new guys a chance, but those who followed the recruitment of Anthony Barber for example, know that some teams saw a red flag with him and backed off.

Will Wolfpack Nation be patient and supportive for 2013-14?

CDu
04-09-2013, 10:22 AM
Interesting, and it does sound like they will have the potential to be decent to good.

Still some substantial downside IMO, lack of depth could be a problem esp. if injuries occur, and have they solved issues of team chemistry and coaching?
Give the new guys a chance, but those who followed the recruitment of Anthony Barber for example, know that some teams saw a red flag with him and backed off.

Will Wolfpack Nation be patient and supportive for 2013-14?

Oh, there's certainly risk with that team. Like this year's team, they'll be either small or unproven up front (especially so if they don't get Davis). And they'll likely again have depth problems unless their freshman bigs are better than expected right away. But they will be deeper on the perimeter than they have been in a few years with 5 guys playing those spots.

Barber is a big question mark, and the ability of Lewis and Barber to coexist amicably running the show will be interesting. I don't think Lewis is a chemistry problem, but what if he proves better than Barber at running the offense? Will that cause a problem with Barber?

The biggest concerns with State, in my opinion, will be:
1. Can they add another quality big man or two?
2. Can they get a solid and stable PG rotation with Barber and Lewis?
3. Can Warren go from feasting as the 5th option to being the primary scorer and focal point for opposing defenses?