Duke-UNC LAX on ESPNU now

[House G]

Duke leads 4-3 after first period.

[burnspbesq]

Two goals (Wolf and Class) in the first 2:06 of the second quarter. 6-3 Duke, time out Carolina.

[Duvall]

time out Carolina.

Lot of that going around these days.

[BD80]

THAT'S our backup goalie? Wow!

[burnspbesq]

THAT'S our backup goalie? Wow!

Not for too much longer, if Turri keeps playing like that. It helps that February's headless chickens with poles appear to have evolved into a confident defense that is playing within itself and playing smart.

8-4 Duke at the half.

[MCFinARL]

This is going really well so far--fingers crossed. Also, ESPNU got the good HD cameras tonight so the picture is awesome.

Kyle Turri looking fairly solid in goal so far, after letting some in early shots when the defense let shooters get wide open.

Edit: see some other people have beat me to this point. And I want to add that the defense let shooters get wide open after long stretches of solid defense. They look better.

[House G]

Why isn't the shot clock visible?

[chrishoke]

Big goal by Lawson to break the string. Duke by 2.

[BD80]

OK that was not a flop. Talk about getting your money's worth from a slash! Right on the "button."

[chrishoke]

Ouch.

[MCFinARL]

Why isn't the shot clock visible?

I'm guessing it is because it only starts when the ref calls a stall--and it's too hard to coordinate that with the clock management. So the ref keeps the time. Based on what I have read on Inside Lacrosse, many players and coaches would rather have a straight shot clock so they can have a better idea when it runs out.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Great win by Duke! 11-8! WooHoo!:cool:

GTHc!

[MCFinARL]

Great win by Duke! 11-8! WooHoo!:cool:

GTHc!

Best. Rivalry. Week. Ever!!!!!

9F 9F 9F

[chrishoke]

That's 16 out of 17 over the heels.

[SCMatt33]

Great win. Hard to believe that Duke has won 16 of 17 against Carolina. I haven't seen a lot of lax yet this year, but the announcers seemed to think that some of the areas that they had looked bad in early (defense, goaltending) looked a lot better. The one thing that I saw was that despite dominating faceoffs and ground balls. Carolina was dominating shots, and possession seemed pretty even. Was it just me, or was the ground ball stat really skewed because Duke was putting the ball on the ground too often in the clearing game, and while uncontested or lightly contested? It seemed from the sound pick-ups that it was pretty windy out there and maybe that contributed, but if Duke had cleaned up their play a bit (and not taken so many penalties), this game would have been a rout.

Either way, Duke is starting to look better before it got too late in the year.

[burnspbesq]

It was 9-8 for long enough for me to need another Lisinopril, but then Josh Offit came up with a huge goal, and Jordan Wolf slipped in the dagger. Carolina's lack of discipline on defense showed up at the worst possible time, going for (and missing) an overhead check on Wolf's goal, and then taking a two-minute penalty with less than two minutes to play.

Duke has now won 16 of the last 17 games against Carolina.

Towson on Saturday, and Marist (who gave us a big scare last year) on Monday night. No time for a letup.

[burnspbesq]

Great win. Hard to believe that Duke has won 16 of 17 against Carolina. I haven't seen a lot of lax yet this year, but the announcers seemed to think that some of the areas that they had looked bad in early (defense, goaltending) looked a lot better. The one thing that I saw was that despite dominating faceoffs and ground balls. Carolina was dominating shots, and possession seemed pretty even. Was it just me, or was the ground ball stat really skewed because Duke was putting the ball on the ground too often in the clearing game, and while uncontested or lightly contested? It seemed from the sound pick-ups that it was pretty windy out there and maybe that contributed, but if Duke had cleaned up their play a bit (and not taken so many penalties), this game would have been a rout.

Either way, Duke is starting to look better before it got too late in the year.

The GBs were also skewed because Brendan Fowler was killing it at the dot, going 16-for-23.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

We're just getting started. Duke LAX always gets stronger by the end of the year. So good to see them get even during rivalry week!
Love, Ima

[MCFinARL]

Great win. Hard to believe that Duke has won 16 of 17 against Carolina. I haven't seen a lot of lax yet this year, but the announcers seemed to think that some of the areas that they had looked bad in early (defense, goaltending) looked a lot better. The one thing that I saw was that despite dominating faceoffs and ground balls. Carolina was dominating shots, and possession seemed pretty even. Was it just me, or was the ground ball stat really skewed because Duke was putting the ball on the ground too often in the clearing game, and while uncontested or lightly contested? It seemed from the sound pick-ups that it was pretty windy out there and maybe that contributed, but if Duke had cleaned up their play a bit (and not taken so many penalties), this game would have been a rout.

Either way, Duke is starting to look better before it got too late in the year.

Burnspbesq could probably answer better than I can but it's my impression that the goaltending was better and, overall, the defense was better. I would agree that Duke didn't always control the ball as well as they could. it also seemed that they were slipping a lot on offense--don't know whether the field conditions were a problem but it did seem Duke players slipped more often than Carolina players.

[buddy]

The third period was scary, but Turri kept them in the game with some great saves. Lack of discipline led to too many penalties. But great play at the end, tough goals by Wolf and Offit to ice the game. Let's hope we can get rolling now.

[burnspbesq]

Burnspbesq could probably answer better than I can but it's my impression that the goaltending was better and, overall, the defense was better. I would agree that Duke didn't always control the ball as well as they could. it also seemed that they were slipping a lot on offense--don't know whether the field conditions were a problem but it did seem Duke players slipped more often than Carolina players.

Defense better, goaltending better: yes to both. Turnovers and loose balls? Carolina rides extremely well, and when they play man-to-man defense, they are risk-takers. Some nights you eat the bear, some nights the bear eats you. They won a lot of battles, but we won the war.

[-bdbd]

Great Lax rivalry win guys! Where do we sit in terms of post-season prospects at this point?

[killerleft]

Given up for lost, they have resurfaced as an improving beast!!! Nothing like some Laxer icing on the WhompUnc Cake. Glad this thread was here to alert me so I could watch, thanks guys.

Go Duke!

[roywhite]

Great Lax rivalry win guys! Where do we sit in terms of post-season prospects at this point?

Always nice to beat UNC, but I'm amazed how one-sided the rivalry has been in this sport lately. Coach Danowski has lost only once to the Heels, and the program overall has won 13 of the last 14 vs Carolina. They've gotta hate that.

As to post-season prospects, I'm no expert here, though I would think playing like this would get us into the NCAA tournament.

[buddy]

Always nice to beat UNC, but I'm amazed how one-sided the rivalry has been in this sport lately. Coach Danowski has lost only once to the Heels, and the program overall has won 13 of the last 14 vs Carolina. They've gotta hate that.

As to post-season prospects, I'm no expert here, though I would think playing like this would get us into the NCAA tournament.

Very simple--WIN. We have lost to #1, #3, #4, and #13 (that will hurt), and beaten #8 and #10. The ACC does NOT get an automatic qualifier, so all the ACC teams have to be judged along with the non-automatic qualifiers. I think there are 7 automatic qualifiers. Right now we are #17 (likely to move up), so that won't get it done. The good news is that the rest of our games are winnable. If we win out regular season, and win at least one in the ACC Tournament, that likely will get it done. Would have been easier if we had not blown the Denver game.

[MCFinARL]

Very simple--WIN. We have lost to #1, #3, #4, and #13 (that will hurt), and beaten #8 and #10. The ACC does NOT get an automatic qualifier, so all the ACC teams have to be judged along with the non-automatic qualifiers. I think there are 7 automatic qualifiers. Right now we are #17 (likely to move up), so that won't get it done. The good news is that the rest of our games are winnable. If we win out regular season, and win at least one in the ACC Tournament, that likely will get it done. Would have been easier if we had not blown the Denver game.

A lot depends on what other teams do; I'm not sure Duke needs to beat Virginia AND reach the ACC final to get into the tournament though they probably do need to do that to ensure a a spot regardless of how other teams play. And at this point they can't afford any out-of-conference losses.

An important first step will be winning the next two--Towson and Marist. Marist, especially, was a tough out for Duke last year and has been playing very well so far this year.

I was a little concerned to see Brendan Fowler limping at the end of last night's game; his work on face-offs has been excellent so far. Hope he is okay.

[burnspbesq]

I was a little concerned to see Brendan Fowler limping at the end of last night's game; his work on face-offs has been excellent so far. Hope he is okay.

Brendan was the victim of Carolina's retaliation for the Hipps slash on Bitter (note to ESPN: it's 2013, you can say he got hit in the nuts and no one will be scandalized). Unless he's got broken ribs, he should be ready to go, if a bit sore. If he can't go, it will likely be DeLuca and Rowe at the dot.

[BD80]

Brendan was the victim of Carolina's retaliation for the Hipps slash on Bitter (note to ESPN: it's 2013, you can say he got hit in the nuts and no one will be scandalized). ...

I think it is now singular, nut, but the search continues.

[burnspbesq]

I think it is now singular, nut, but the search continues.

Does Hipps get credited with a caused nutover?

[TKG]

Very simple--WIN. We have lost to #1, #3, #4, and #13 (that will hurt), and beaten #8 and #10. The ACC does NOT get an automatic qualifier, so all the ACC teams have to be judged along with the non-automatic qualifiers. I think there are 7 automatic qualifiers. Right now we are #17 (likely to move up), so that won't get it done. The good news is that the rest of our games are winnable. If we win out regular season, and win at least one in the ACC Tournament, that likely will get it done. Would have been easier if we had not blown the Denver game.

Our margin for error for the rest of the season is small. I am not sure we can afford another loss until the ACC championship game. We still have anApril regular season game against UVA (currently #11 in the media poll and #9 in the coaches poll). Lose that game and we enter the ACC Tournament with a 1 -2 conference record.

Great win last night but the challenge ahead is formidable.

[MCFinARL]

Our margin for error for the rest of the season is small. I am not sure we can afford another loss until the ACC championship game. We still have anApril regular season game against UVA (currently #11 in the media poll and #9 in the coaches poll). Lose that game and we enter the ACC Tournament with a 1 -2 conference record.

Great win last night but the challenge ahead is formidable.

True--although the quality of the conference is so high that I think that is significant more because it would mean Duke didn't get another quality win than because of the conference record as such. Realistically, you and buddy are both right that the best bet is to win out, with the possible exception of the ACC title game, because that might well be what it takes to get to the tournament. I just meant to say that it's still possible (if less likely) that Duke could lose either the Virginia game or its ACC semifinal and still make the tournament if some other teams add a couple of losses between now and the end of the season. This might especially be the case if, for example, Duke beats UVA but, through some combination of results and seeding tiebreakers, faces Maryland in its first ACC game. Always better to take care of your own business than to have to count on someone else not to take care of theirs, though.

[TKG]

True--although the quality of the conference is so high that I think that is significant more because it would mean Duke didn't get another quality win than because of the conference record as such. Realistically, you and buddy are both right that the best bet is to win out, with the possible exception of the ACC title game, because that might well be what it takes to get to the tournament. I just meant to say that it's still possible (if less likely) that Duke could lose either the Virginia game or its ACC semifinal and still make the tournament if some other teams add a couple of losses between now and the end of the season. This might especially be the case if, for example, Duke beats UVA but, through some combination of results and seeding tiebreakers, faces Maryland in its first ACC game. Always better to take care of your own business than to have to count on someone else not to take care of theirs, though.


I agree with your views but I want to avoid a first round game against Maryland like the plague. The Terps made our defense look like statues in the first meeting. That was such a mismatch it was disturbing.

[BD80]

Looks like the ACC might be pretty good in LAX next year.

[TKG]

Looks like the ACC might be pretty good in LAX next year.

Yep. For one year the conference will be:

Duke
Maryland
Notre Dame
UNC
UVA
Syracuse


That is a serious line up.

[Mudge]

Yep. For one year the conference will be:

Duke
Maryland
Notre Dame
UNC
UVA
Syracuse


That is a serious line up.

Would that merit/get an automatic qualifier-- and would a 5-team league get one going forward?

[Mudge]

Brendan was the victim of Carolina's retaliation for the Hipps slash on Bitter (note to ESPN: it's 2013, you can say he got hit in the nuts and no one will be scandalized). Unless he's got broken ribs, he should be ready to go, if a bit sore. If he can't go, it will likely be DeLuca and Rowe at the dot.

I don't know why, but it sure looked to me on the replay like the stick caught him on the hipbone where he doesn't have any extra flesh to cushion it (which of course could hurt quite a lot)--not the 'nads-- but he sure was rolling around holding himself/trying not to hold himself like he got it in the jewels... I just never saw the stick contact the bullseye...

[Mudge]

Why isn't the shot clock visible?

Did anyone else notice that at the end of every quarter, the ref's whistle would sound 1-2 seconds before the clock that ESPN was showing would reach 00:00-- why couldn't ESPN get their clock synched with the actual game clock?

[Mudge]

It was 9-8 for long enough for me to need another Lisinopril, but then Josh Offit came up with a huge goal, and Jordan Wolf slipped in the dagger. Carolina's lack of discipline on defense showed up at the worst possible time, going for (and missing) an overhead check on Wolf's goal, and then taking a two-minute penalty with less than two minutes to play.

Duke has now won 16 of the last 17 games against Carolina.

Towson on Saturday, and Marist (who gave us a big scare last year) on Monday night. No time for a letup.

That goal by Offit at 9-8 was a MAN'S GOAL (to quote one of Jay Bilas' favorite catchphrases-- apparently learned at the knee of Coach K)-- he just decided he was going to score, and was not going to be denied-- and it clinched the game.

As several have noted, Duke looked better this game on defense (I did not see the Loyola game, but apparently, they must have been better in that game too-- wonder why it has taken so long to start to gel, given the amount of talent and experience that they returned on defense)... what is really strange to me is that Duke has been better in man-down situations on defense most of the year than they have been in 6-on-6-- that makes no sense to me.

On offense, in this game, they looked more dynamic and effective than against Maryland (perhaps attributable to a difference in the quality of the opponent's defense), but they still could use a bit more of a cutting edge-- a little less of passing it around the circle, and a little more of slicing and dicing the defense... I think now that Matheis is starting to feel a little more comfortable, he is starting to show flashes of playmaking brilliance that could eventually lead to him really opening up opposing defenses for some great point-blank shooting opportunities (for his teammates) with his passes.

Last, unless Turri regresses, I don't see how Wigrizer gets another opportunity-- he just wasn't making even the easy stops that he should have been making, aimed right at his mid-section... it became depressing/frustrating to see opponents score on nearly every shot on cage against him. I am not convinced that Turri is going to be great yet, but I do think he will offer Duke a better chance of winning than Wigrizer will when he returns from his "injury".

[MCFinARL]

Would that merit/get an automatic qualifier-- and would a 5-team league get one going forward?

Good question. I don't think a 5-team league could get an automatic qualifier under any circumstances, which probably means that the one-year 5-team league wouldn't be granted one either.

[burnspbesq]

The situation with respect to AQs is really uncertain right now.

The Atlantic Sun, which will start sponsoring men's lax next year with a lineup of Jacksonville, Mercer, Furman, High Point, Richmond, and VMI, has been widely reported to be getting an AQ immediately. The problem from the NCAA's perspective is that its guidelines on tournament field size would seem to require an increase from the current 16 once there are nine AQs, but a couple of leagues that currently have them are in line to drop below six members as a result of realignment. There's a lot of speculation about Colorado (a perennial MCLA championship contender) adding men's lax after its women's program launches next year. There's a lot of support among Louisville and BC supporters for the idea of men's lax. Nobody knows what the New Big East will do. Nobody knows what the Big Integer will do. The current ECAC lax league, stretching from Fairfield, CT to Colorado Springs, is a logistical and cost nightmare.

"Something is happening here, but you don't know what it is"

[MCFinARL]

Good question. I don't think a 5-team league could get an automatic qualifier under any circumstances, which probably means that the one-year 5-team league wouldn't be granted one either.

too late to edit so I will quote my own post to note that I meant to say one-year 6 team league.


The situation with respect to AQs is really uncertain right now.

The Atlantic Sun, which will start sponsoring men's lax next year with a lineup of Jacksonville, Mercer, Furman, High Point, Richmond, and VMI, has been widely reported to be getting an AQ immediately. The problem from the NCAA's perspective is that its guidelines on tournament field size would seem to require an increase from the current 16 once there are nine AQs, but a couple of leagues that currently have them are in line to drop below six members as a result of realignment. There's a lot of speculation about Colorado (a perennial MCLA championship contender) adding men's lax after its women's program launches next year. There's a lot of support among Louisville and BC supporters for the idea of men's lax. Nobody knows what the New Big East will do. Nobody knows what the Big Integer will do. The current ECAC lax league, stretching from Fairfield, CT to Colorado Springs, is a logistical and cost nightmare.

"Something is happening here, but you don't know what it is"

Interesting analysis. Do you think the NCAA's hesitation to expand the tournament field stems from 1) scheduling considerations (tournament is already going way beyond the end of the school year of many teams--of course the baseball playoffs go even longer); 2) financial considerations; 3) dilution concerns because there still aren't that many teams playing D1 lacrosse? Or some combination, or something else?

[burnspbesq]

too late to edit so I will quote my own post to note that I meant to say one-year 6 team league.



Interesting analysis. Do you think the NCAA's hesitation to expand the tournament field stems from 1) scheduling considerations (tournament is already going way beyond the end of the school year of many teams--of course the baseball playoffs go even longer); 2) financial considerations; 3) dilution concerns because there still aren't that many teams playing D1 lacrosse? Or some combination, or something else?

Hard to say. The NCAA didn't hesitate to add play-in games for women's lax, and it didn't hesitate to expand the D3 football playoffs from 16 to 28 teams (adding an extra week to the season) when the need became apparent. I don't think scheduling is likely to be a real issue; it's wouldn't be insurmountably difficult to add a first round (to manage a 24 or even 32 team bracket) by moving to predetermined campus sites and a Thursday-Sunday format for the first and second round (a la the women's basketball tournament). I don't think anyone expects the lax tournament to break even, so I don't think $ is a big issue.

The real problem is this: if you have a 16-team field in lacrosse with nine AQs and a five-team ACC, as a practical matter you have over 50 schools competing for one at-large bid (six of the seven at-large bids, in a typical year, would go to the five ACC schools and Hop). That's massively unfair to the big-conference runners-up (in most years the NEC, MAAC, and Atlantic Sun will be one-bid leagues).

I think the NCAA may be guilty of thinking that lacrosse and hockey are still more alike than different, when that is clearly no longer the case.