the #14 Ohio State University 67, #2 Indiana 58

[moonpie23]

64-55 OSU with 1:17 to play


i guess lunardi will immediately move them off the 1-line?

[wallyman]

What a game by OSU. Amazing D, energy and tenacity. Aaron Craft at his best.

[El_Diablo]

Refs have swallowed their whistles...not even calling it when Indiana is trying to foul.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Will they still be ranked #1? Don't get me wrong. I think IU is very good and could win the title, but Dakish just said he didn't think this would affect their #1 seed, with a road game against Michigan still looming. Why is their overall resume clearly better than those of Duke, Gonzaga, Kansas, Georgetown, Miami, Michigan, Louisville, and Florida?

[Bluedog]

Refs have swallowed their whistles...not even calling it when Indiana is trying to foul.

Yeah...intentionally fouled on the arm at least four times and nothing called. Who's the on the ball ref? Of course it's Teddy Valentine! OSU wins I think that means Lunardi makes IU locked in a the #1 overall and moves Duke down to a 3 seed. ;) Fun game to watch. OSU with a great win.

Yes, winky face means I was joking just to be super clear. Just alluding to the fact that the media seems to love IU this season no matter what.

[wallyman]

Has anyone in history received more attention for doing something that means so little than Joe Lunardi? Who cares who he puts on the 1 line?

[hurleyfor3]

Has anyone in history received more attention for doing something that means so little than Joe Lunardi?

Among people not named Kardashian? No.

[sporthenry]

Has anyone in history received more attention for doing something that means so little than Joe Lunardi? Who cares who he puts on the 1 line?

Well he is just proof that getting there first is really all that matters. I've been guilty of using him but I try to just use him as a starting point, but I do agree, his opinion is as useless as yours or mine assuming you actually understand the process a bit and at that point, he actually isn't better than other bracketologists.

[matt1]

This also improve how our win over OSU looks.

[Olympic Fan]

Well he is just proof that getting there first is really all that matters. I've been guilty of using him but I try to just use him as a starting point, but I do agree, his opinion is as useless as yours or mine assuming you actually understand the process a bit and at that point, he actually isn't better than other bracketologists.

When did Lunardi get their first?

Jerry Palm was doing it (and doing it better) long before anyone heard of Lunardi.

And Bill Brill was doing it long before Palm ... Brill is the first real bracketologist.

Just as the Kardashians are the no-talent products of the E! Network ... Lunardi is the no-talent product of ESPN.

And, yes, he still has Indiana on the No. 1 line and Duke on the 2 line.

[hurleyfor3]

And, yes, he still has Indiana on the No. 1 line and Duke on the 2 line.

That fact that you looked that up says a lot.

[Olympic Fan]

That fact that you looked that up says a lot.

Didn't look him up ... was watchign SportsCenter and saw his comments.

It DOES explain a lot -- Lunardi gets the puffery because he gets the exposure on ESPN. But if you pay an attention to him, I have to ask -- do you pay attention to Lou Holtz? Lee Corso? Digger Phelps?

[throatybeard]

I miss Brill.

[NashvilleDevil]

Just as the Kardashians are the no-talent products of the E! Network ... Lunardi is the no-talent product of ESPN.

Lunardi isn't the only no talent product at ESPN. They're littered with them.

[oldnavy]

Lunardi isn't the only no talent product at ESPN. They're littered with them.

Not the least of which are the producers or directors of the actual games. Who ever decides what is on camera has no idea what people watch a basketball game for.

ESPN is just a comercial, sprinkled with sports. There whole production is an advertisment for their next production.

[miramar]

Didn't look him up ... was watchign SportsCenter and saw his comments.

It DOES explain a lot -- Lunardi gets the puffery because he gets the exposure on ESPN. But if you pay an attention to him, I have to ask -- do you pay attention to Lou Holtz? Lee Corso? Digger Phelps?

I have to pay close attention when Digger talks because otherwise I won't understand anything that he's saying. If I really concentrate, however, I can understand about half of it.

[Mike Corey]

Terrific win for the Bucks.

They have the pieces of a good-to-great team, and are slowly figuring out how they all might work together.

Matta's starting to really push this squad because, I sense, he knows they're close.

[roywhite]

Terrific win for the Bucks.

They have the pieces of a good-to-great team, and are slowly figuring out how they all might work together.

Matta's starting to really push this squad because, I sense, he knows they're close.

Mike, I know you follow the Bucks and B1G; what's your sense about how the top teams there compare to the top teams in the ACC (Miami, Duke, UNC, UVa, State)?
Seems like a very good year for the B1G, and some very good teams, but I recall the ACC was able to get a tie in the conference challenge results earlier in the year.

Just wondering which teams from the B1G do you think will go the farthest?

[Mike Corey]

Well, I think Ohio State is getting hot at the right time, whereas Indiana, M*chigan and Michigan State--superior squads on paper--are floundering a smidge.

The Hoosiers have lost 2 of 3, and have to end the season with a trip to see Ann Arbor, a fate I would not wish upon anyone.

The Wolverine players seem to be equally upset with their time in Ann Arbor, having gone 4-4 since the start of February.

And the Spartans have lost their last three games!

Since getting blown out at Wisconsin--the uncontending contender of the Big Ten, imo--Ohio State has crushed Minnesota, and scored a pair of top-5 wins in addition to an unimpressive (trap game) win against Northwestern.

All that said...I think the Big Ten teams have worn each other down a bit, but I think each has the ability to recharge for a tournament run. No team stands out in particular in this group. So that leaves me with MSU and OSU. Talent. Experience. Tough schedules. Etc.

I do think the Big Ten is markedly deeper than the ACC; I do not think the top of the ACC (Duke and Miami) is out of their league at all.

[moonpie23]

lunardi isn't the only no talent product at espn. They're littered with them.

bomani jones!!!! Come on down!!

[TexHawk]

When did Lunardi get their first?

Jerry Palm was doing it (and doing it better) long before anyone heard of Lunardi.

And Bill Brill was doing it long before Palm ... Brill is the first real bracketologist.

Just as the Kardashians are the no-talent products of the E! Network ... Lunardi is the no-talent product of ESPN.

And, yes, he still has Indiana on the No. 1 line and Duke on the 2 line.

It helps me to think of Lunardi** and ESPN just as you would every other website with somewhat interesting content. Everything they do is meant to drive more and more eyeballs to ESPN.com and Sportscenter (and to each other). It is not *interesting* to build a bracket that is the most accurate. It *IS* interesting to build brackets that have slight controversies, to get people to argue, to get people to tell their friends "OMG, check out Lunardi's latest... He's an idiot!" Of course, he can't go overboard and claim the ridiculous, like ignoring big losses or wins, or he'd lose credibility, and nobody will come back. But as you can see with the Indiana stuff this morning, they like to toe the line.

For example, Lunardi's bracket last weekend had KU (#1) playing the winner of Wichita State (#8) and Missouri (#9) in Kansas City. Instantly you had 3 fanbases (4 if you count Kansas State) raging about awful that would be (KU's view), to how awesome that would be (everyone else). There was a 10 page thread on phog.net about it, that undoubtedly drove a bunch of hits to ESPN.com. Stuff like that happens all over his brackets. Fast forward 3 days, Lunardi changed the matchup. More freaking out, for the opposite reasons.

** To be clear, I actually don't think Lunardi is solely responsible for a lot of this. There is likely an army of low-level ESPN staffers mining data to say things like "If we put Kentucky in the last 4 out, you can expect an uptick of 10% from upset Kentucky fans and schadenfreude from the rest of the country. Next week, let's put them back in, and you'll get the same lift, but for opposite reasons."

[moonpie23]

lunardi is nothing more than a private "poll" who gets to pick the winners and losers.....it drive clicks and sports talk...nothing more...

[Dev11]

It's amazing that since getting rid of cable, I haven't heard a single peep from Joe Lunardi or any other ESPN personality unless I seek them out. I've moved over to CBS for my college basketball coverage. It was definitely a significant hipster development.

[rthomas]

Lunardi may be right or wrong - there is still a ways to go before selection Sunday. Who cares? We just need to win out.

On the other hand, if there is a two seed I like its the one he picked us in.

[TexHawk]

All that said...I think the Big Ten teams have worn each other down a bit, but I think each has the ability to recharge for a tournament run. No team stands out in particular in this group. So that leaves me with MSU and OSU. Talent. Experience. Tough schedules. Etc.

Not sure where MSU's tournament experience advantage is coming from. The players on this year's team have a bad Sweet 16 loss (2012), and a bad 1st round loss (2011) on their tournament resumes. Nix did play on their Final 4 team in 2010, but only saw about 5-6 minutes a game. OSU clearly has more tournament experience, and Wisconsin likely does as well.

[sagegrouse]

lunardi is nothing more than a private "poll" who gets to pick the winners and losers.....it drive clicks and sports talk...nothing more...

Bracketology? Boy, it makes you jealous, doesn't it, that some other schmuck is making money off of something that is no more than congealed common sense.

I wil concede that there is some value in bracketology towards the end of season, but not so much the debate about #1 seeds.

The #1 seed debate is a bit silly, I think, even this week, because by the end of the conference tournaments, it will all be pretty obvious. Usually, I opine, it comes down to which of two teams deserve a #1, and the Tournament Selection Committee puts them in the same region as a #1 and #2 -- which tends to moot (mute?) the issue.

Where bracketology is useful, I think, is in keeping track of the 37 at-large selections. First, that's a big number that can't be counted on one's fingers and toes. Second, the 37 teams are affected by the conference championships and tournaments. Upsets there reduce the opportunities for at-large teams. As a result, there is a role for analysts in keeping lists of eligible teams with a hope of an at-large selection.

sagegrouse

[BD80]

Has anyone in history received more attention for doing something that means so little than Joe Lunardi? ...


Among people not named Kardashian? No.

How about Kris Humphries for doing a Kardashian?


I have to pay close attention when Digger talks because otherwise I won't understand anything that he's saying. If I really concentrate, however, I can understand about half of it.

Try listenimg to every other word, it helps. Sometimes, depending on his meds, every third word.


... ESPN is just a comercial, sprinkled with sports. Their whole production is an advertisment for their next production.

And now we'll have a 24 hour Fox sports channel.

[FerryFor50]

Of all the top 25 teams Duke has beaten, OSU is the team I'd like to have them face the least. They've really improved since Duke faced them and they play that rough, hard-nosed physical style (without fouling, of course) that really flummoxes Duke.

[rsvman]

I think the B1G (or whatever they call it these days) is somewhat overrated. Once the media put a conference on a pedestal ("the BEST BASKETBALL CONFERENCE in the land!!") it's almost impossible for said conference to fall off.

If they lose to each other it's just more proof that the conference is really tough. Maybe there's some fairness to that, but if a conference has been entitled "weak" and then the teams beat up on each other it is taken as proof that the conference is weak. So there's an inconsistency in the way outcomes are interpreted as conference play moves on.

I seem to remember that the ACC/Big Ten Challenge ended in a tie this season. Despite that, somebody decided that the B1G was "the best" and the ACC was "weak." Nothing can happen in conference play to upset that apple cart, because members of each conference are only playing each other.


Having said all that, there are teams in the B1G that I don't want to see in my bracket. I'd have to say Ohio State and Michigan State top the list for me. Ohio State because we have seen how hard they play and how much they interrupt your game plan; Michigan State because they are well coached and they always seem to get better once the tournament starts.

[Bluedog]

I think the B1G (or whatever they call it these days) is somewhat overrated. Once the media put a conference on a pedestal ("the BEST BASKETBALL CONFERENCE in the land!!") it's almost impossible for said conference to fall off.

If they lose to each other it's just more proof that the conference is really tough. Maybe there's some fairness to that, but if a conference has been entitled "weak" and then the teams beat up on each other it is taken as proof that the conference is weak. So there's an inconsistency in the way outcomes are interpreted as conference play moves on.

I seem to remember that the ACC/Big Ten Challenge ended in a tie this season. Despite that, somebody decided that the B1G was "the best" and the ACC was "weak." Nothing can happen in conference play to upset that apple cart, because members of each conference are only playing each other.


Having said all that, there are teams in the B1G that I don't want to see in my bracket. I'd have to say Ohio State and Michigan State top the list for me. Ohio State because we have seen how hard they play and how much they interrupt your game plan; Michigan State because they are well coached and they always seem to get better once the tournament starts.

I don't want to see IU, Michigan, or Ohio State...I'm okay with MSU - I think we match up pretty well with them. Although I wouldn't want to play any B1G team in Indy, so have to hope to lock down the East (or South) region.

But I generally agree with your point, although I do think the B1G is the best conference this year - perhaps not by leaps and bounds like the media makes them out to be. I mean, UVa went into Madison and beat Wisconsin on their home court. Only MSU was able to do that (by 2 points...) until recently when Purdue also shockingly pulled out a win. And Wisc still has a chance to tie for the regular season title. But UVa is still seen as not a very good team by many despite that seemingly impressive win.

[Henderson]

Well, I think Ohio State is getting hot at the right time, whereas Indiana, M*chigan and Michigan State--superior squads on paper--are floundering a smidge.

The Hoosiers have lost 2 of 3, and have to end the season with a trip to see Ann Arbor, a fate I would not wish upon anyone.

The Wolverine players seem to be equally upset with their time in Ann Arbor, having gone 4-4 since the start of February.

And the Spartans have lost their last three games!

Since getting blown out at Wisconsin--the uncontending contender of the Big Ten, imo--Ohio State has crushed Minnesota, and scored a pair of top-5 wins in addition to an unimpressive (trap game) win against Northwestern.

All that said...I think the Big Ten teams have worn each other down a bit, but I think each has the ability to recharge for a tournament run. No team stands out in particular in this group. So that leaves me with MSU and OSU. Talent. Experience. Tough schedules. Etc.

I do think the Big Ten is markedly deeper than the ACC; I do not think the top of the ACC (Duke and Miami) is out of their league at all.

Excellent insights. Thanks.

The Big X teams do play a brutal conference schedule, so I predict that they will over-achieve in the NCAAT once they are rested. I used to race bicycles, and after a brutal grueling race, I'd be totally done. Then, after some rest, I'd be stronger than ever as a result. I think the principle applies here.

[Tom B.]

Has anyone in history received more attention for doing something that means so little than Joe Lunardi?




Mel Kiper, Jr.

I sometimes wonder if there's some kind of storage unit at ESPN headquarters where they keep Kiper and Lunardi cryogenically frozen during the 11 months of the year they're not being used.






To be clear, I actually don't think Lunardi is solely responsible for a lot of this. There is likely an army of low-level ESPN staffers mining data to say things like "If we put Kentucky in the last 4 out, you can expect an uptick of 10% from upset Kentucky fans and schadenfreude from the rest of the country. Next week, let's put them back in, and you'll get the same lift, but for opposite reasons."



Personally, I'm rooting for Kentucky to be one of the last four in. I think the humiliation of having to play in one of the play-in (um, excuse me...."first round") games actually would be worse for their fanbase than missing the Tournament entirely.

[Olympic Fan]

To get back to tlast night's game, did anyone else notice that it was Senior Day for Indiana?

Interesting development -- not only did they honor their seniors (Hulls and Watford), but sophomore Cody Zeller and junior Victor Oladipo were also honored ... obviously acknowledging that they are going to turn pro.

That's a first for me ... I don't remember Duke honoring Kyrie Irving or UNC saluting Harrison Barnes in such situations.

Back to Bracketology ... I agree it's siklly to get upset because the No. 1 seeds will be determined in the next week and a half. You can argue all day aviout whether Duke or Kansas or Georgetown deserves a No. 1, but two of three of the teams vyinjg for the first line are going to lose before the selection is make.

As for Duke, if the Devils beat UNC and win the ACC Tournament, I absolutely, positively guarantee you that Duke will be a No. 1.

If Duke loses to UNC and loses in the ACC Tournament, I absolutely, positively guarantee you that Duke won't be a No. 1.

In between and it depends on a lot of other factors -- does Georgetown win out? Does Kansas win out? Does Indiana lose to Michigan this weekend and lose in the tourney? What do Gonzaga, Michigabn State, Louisville do the rest of the way?

But all we can do today is identify the candidates for a No. 1 -- they still have to play their way to that line.

[Billy Dat]

To get back to tlast night's game, did anyone else notice that it was Senior Day for Indiana?

Pat Forde did, may the skewering commence...cutting down the nets after a loss...
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--indiana-hoosiers-wins-share-big-ten-title-turn-senior-night-into-a-mockery-081319430.html

[Bluedog]

Pat Forde did, may the skewering commence...cutting down the nets after a loss...
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--indiana-hoosiers-wins-share-big-ten-title-turn-senior-night-into-a-mockery-081319430.html

I saw that article earlier, which emphasized the cutting down the nets part, but didn't realize Olympic Fan's point that IU also honored non-seniors. Nope, doesn't seem like something Duke would do unless the individual is expected to graduate that season a la JWill. Maybe Oladipo is in that category (but I have no idea), but obviously Cody Zeller is not as only a sophomore.

[1 24 90]

Not sure how they handled the postgame senior day stuff at IU but during the game they showed them honoring the 4 1,000 point scorers on their team - Watford, Hulls, Zeller & Oladipo. I think this was their way of somehow honoring the 2 non-seniors that they don't expect back.

Ignore this if Zeller & Oladipo were included in the postgame senior day stuff too.

[BD80]

Pat Forde did, may the skewering commence...cutting down the nets after a loss...
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--indiana-hoosiers-wins-share-big-ten-title-turn-senior-night-into-a-mockery-081319430.html

They cut the nets down after a loss??????

The soccer mom mentality is now just a step away from the NBA!

I also note that they had Oladipo and Zeller involved in the "senior" ceremony (Self only gave McElmore "special recognition" at KU's senior night).

Goodness gracious, soon schools will be hanging up "championship" banners granted by some farcical group (cough *helms* cough).

[luburch]

Oladipo and Zeller were not honored with the seniors. They recognized 1000 point scorers before the game and that's when they were honored. However Oladipo is set to graduate early at the end of the year, and Zeller over the summer.

[Dev11]

Oladipo and Zeller were not honored with the seniors. They recognized 1000 point scorers before the game and that's when they were honored. However Oladipo is set to graduate early at the end of the year, and Zeller over the summer.

If that's true about Zeller, that's some impressive class-taking, as he is only a sophomore I believe. By Duke's academic standard, he would have had to overload nearly every semester that he was on campus to finish in 2 academic years with 3 summers.

[Dev11]

Mel Kiper, Jr.

I sometimes wonder if there's some kind of storage unit at ESPN headquarters where they keep Kiper and Lunardi cryogenically frozen during the 11 months of the year they're not being used.

Are you kidding? This is football you're talking about, Kiper is on ESPN every month of the year. I am sure they just preserve him when he is not on camera. I've always wondered how many faceless drones are required to do the grunt work of 'the experts.'

[Dev11]

They cut the nets down after a loss??????

The soccer mom mentality is now just a step away from the NBA!

I also note that they had Oladipo and Zeller involved in the "senior" ceremony (Self only gave McElmore "special recognition" at KU's senior night).

Goodness gracious, soon schools will be hanging up "championship" banners granted by some farcical group (cough *helms* cough).

I believe they cut down the nets because they won the B1G regular season title despite the loss. I'm sure it was a weird experience for the die-hards in attendance that night. I can't imagine trying to celebrate the ACC regular season title in Cameron immediately following a loss to NC State, but perhaps that is just me.

[luburch]

If that's true about Zeller, that's some impressive class-taking, as he is only a sophomore I believe. By Duke's academic standard, he would have had to overload nearly every semester that he was on campus to finish in 2 academic years with 3 summers.

I believe the Sports Illustrated article at the start of the year said he would be six(?) credits shy of graduating at the end of the spring semester. I know you have the option to take college courses in high school now and AP classes are able to transfer, not to mention summer school.

[Dev11]

I believe the Sports Illustrated article at the start of the year said he would be six(?) credits shy of graduating at the end of the spring semester. I know you have the option to take college courses in high school now and AP classes are able to transfer, not to mention summer school.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but just really aggressive. Plenty of kids have left college early and finished their education in the summers.

Speaking of which, anybody know how Kyrie's degree is coming along?

[Billy Dat]

Speaking of which, anybody know how Kyrie's degree is coming along?

He's already gotten a semester's worth of credits for winning rookie of the year. Since then, I believed he completed a full credit in "making opposing guards look foolish", another credit in "guess which hand I am going to finish with, sucker!", a third credit in "making it rain from 3" and a fourth in "Uncle Drew".

That puts him somewhere in his Junior year from a progress standpoint, but we should probably check with someone in the Allen Building to be sure. :p

[Native]

He's already gotten a semester's worth of credits for winning rookie of the year. Since then, I believed he completed a full credit in "making opposing guards look foolish", another credit in "guess which hand I am going to finish with, sucker!", a third credit in "making it rain from 3" and a fourth in "Uncle Drew".

That puts him somewhere in his Junior year from a progress standpoint, but we should probably check with someone in the Allen Building to be sure. :p

I'm taking Uncle Drew right now and it's terribly difficult. I keep reaching only to be reminded that I am, in fact, a youngblood.

[Bluedog]

Oladipo and Zeller were not honored with the seniors. They recognized 1000 point scorers before the game and that's when they were honored. However Oladipo is set to graduate early at the end of the year, and Zeller over the summer.


If that's true about Zeller, that's some impressive class-taking, as he is only a sophomore I believe. By Duke's academic standard, he would have had to overload nearly every semester that he was on campus to finish in 2 academic years with 3 summers.

Duke has harsh restrictions on AP/IB credit limits that the vast majority of state schools do not. Zeller could have had enough credits to effectively start IU as a sophomore potentially - at Duke, it wouldn't make much sense to allow that since then a large percentage of each class could begin as sophomores (from an academic perspective). Honestly, if I was a really high academic/basketball guy that wanted to graduate in three years and then move on the NBA, that would be a negative for Duke compared to almost every other basketball powerhouse. Although (not to generalize, but) I'm sure the vast majority of NBA prospects aren't completing 8 AP credits in high school, so it's probably only a small factor for a tiny percentage of student-athletes.

[Dev11]

Duke has harsher restrictions on limiting AP/IB credits that most state schools do not.

Yeah, not so much in Pratt. I had almost a year's worth of credits when I came in. Trinity, I believe, is a tad stricter.

Engineering vs Art and Crafts difficulty argument, commence.

[Bluedog]

Yeah, not so much in Pratt. I had almost a year's worth of credits when I came in. Trinity, I believe, is a tad stricter.

Engineering vs Art and Crafts difficulty argument, commence.

Right, but Pratt has enough engineering requirements in the curriculum that it doesn't make a difference to allow unlimited AP Credits there since even though somebody can get to 34 credits early, they can't get all the other requirements out of the way since you can't take ECE 64 in high school. I graduated from Pratt as well and came in with a semester and half worth of credits, but that didn't really allow me to graduate early (not that I would have wanted to...). And who is the last basketball player to enroll in Pratt? (Trivia question.)

The answer is actually Miles Plumlee, although he transferred to Trinity after the first year. Not sure who was before that....Who is the last men's scholarship player to graduate from Pratt?

[Dev11]

Right, but Pratt has enough engineering requirements in the curriculum that it doesn't make a difference to allow unlimited AP Credits there since even though somebody can get to 34 credits early, they can't get all the other requirements out of the way since you can't take ECE 64 in high school. I graduated from Pratt as well and came in with a semester and half worth of credits, but that didn't really allow me to graduate early (not that I would have wanted to...).

I totally agree, I just like trying to feed the Trinity trolls who think their academic lives were somehow harder than ours. Yep, I'm trying to go down this road on a thread about IU-OSU.

[hurleyfor3]

I totally agree, I just like trying to feed the Trinity trolls who think their academic lives were somehow harder than ours. Yep, I'm trying to go down this road on a thread about IU-OSU.

We're better off keeping it within the family and picking on the CE and BME majors who couldn't hack ME or EE. [/mod]

[Dev11]

We're better off keeping it within the family and picking on the CE and BME majors who couldn't hack ME or EE. [/mod]

At least somebody has joined me.

By the way, no Summit County Hoops Watch this weekend like we had last year. You'll have to trek all the way down to mile high if you want to be surrounded by other Duke fans.

[hurleyfor3]

At least somebody has joined me.

By the way, no Summit County Hoops Watch this weekend like we had last year. You'll have to trek all the way down to mile high if you want to be surrounded by other Duke fans.

I was wondering what side of that figurative Continental Divide you were on. (And from the "see what I did there" department, most EE's would take issue with being lumped in with ME's.)

If the forecast is correct I'll be able to ski down I-70 to Denver. I'd have to, as driving would be out of the question.

[Tom B.]

The answer is actually Miles Plumlee, although he transferred to Trinity after the first year. Not sure who was before that....Who is the last men's scholarship player to graduate from Pratt?




George Burgin, Class of 1990, graduated with a double degree in Mechanical Engineering and Computer Science, before going to work for an aerospace company (can't remember which one -- maybe Rockwell? Lockeed Martin?) as, literally, a rocket scientist. Not sure if any other players have graduated with engineering degrees from Duke since then.

[Buckeye Devil]

Living in the heart of Big Ten Country, the team from the league that I do not want to see Duke tangle with is Michigan (as much as I hate to say it being from Ohio). Trey Burke is a point guard nightmare matchup for a lot of teams. Combine him with Hardaway and that is a pretty good duo. OSU is hitting its stride at the right time but I honestly didn't see that win over IU on the road in the forecast. And who wants to play Izzo or get matched up against Wisconsin-the team that makes everyone look ugly.

I agree with a previous post that said that the league was deeper than the ACC, but I feel that Duke and Miami are right there with the top teams in the Big Ten.

[dcdevil2009]

Duke has harsh restrictions on AP/IB credit limits that the vast majority of state schools do not. Zeller could have had enough credits to effectively start IU as a sophomore potentially - at Duke, it wouldn't make much sense to allow that since then a large percentage of each class could begin as sophomores (from an academic perspective). Honestly, if I was a really high academic/basketball guy that wanted to graduate in three years and then move on the NBA, that would be a negative for Duke compared to almost every other basketball powerhouse. Although (not to generalize, but) I'm sure the vast majority of NBA prospects aren't completing 8 AP credits in high school, so it's probably only a small factor for a tiny percentage of student-athletes.

I'm not sure that this is necessarily the case. I was under the impression that you could use more than two AP credits to graduate early, but only two to graduate in 8 semesters. Link (http://trinity.duke.edu/academic-requirements?p=ap-ipc-and-pmc-credit). Thus, if you are allowed to count two full summer sessions as a semester, you could finish a degree summer after sophomore year without overloading (3 summers = 12, 2 normal years = 16, 6 APs = 6). I'm assuming most non-athletes don't consider this because more time at Duke is better than less time when the opportunity cost isn't millions of NBA dollars, but it can be done.