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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 85, Virginia Tech 57 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
03-05-2013, 07:56 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

Acymetric
03-05-2013, 07:58 PM
Undefeated at home! Great night for the seniors, hope Seth is alright!

Chris Randolph
03-05-2013, 07:58 PM
Held VT to 20 second half points. Great job D and coaching staff. Hope Ryan rests up and is good to go the rest of the year. 16-0

Les Grossman
03-05-2013, 08:01 PM
what can you say? duke is lucky enough to have 3 quality seniors, and they all played well on senior night.

Saratoga2
03-05-2013, 08:01 PM
Be interested in detailed comments. Certainly didn't show much at the outset, but clearly got it together in the second half. Curry is closing in on 2000.

matt1
03-05-2013, 08:02 PM
2010:
Home / Neutral: 30-0
Road: 5-5

2013:
Home / Neutral: 22-0
Road: 4-4

Les Grossman
03-05-2013, 08:03 PM
OT
Ugly fist fight in the ND v St Johns game.
Makes me appreciate our guys even more

dukelifer
03-05-2013, 08:06 PM
Nice win. Much more balanced scoring in second half. With Curry and Kelly on the perimeter- Duke is tough to cover. Much better D controlling penetration. Time to rest and get ready for UNC.

sagegrouse
03-05-2013, 08:10 PM
As in many games this season, a determined but weaker and less skilled team clung with Duke for a half, but eventually wore down. I note that it took a long, long time for Erick Green to wear down.

If the unofficial stats are correct (hah!), then Va Tech out rebounded Duke 21-14 in the first half (seems like there was a possession at the end when VT got five OR's). Yet Duke ended up winning the rebound battle 36-29, which translates into a Duke edge of 22-8 in the second half.

If this analysis is correct, we can look forward to an NCAA investigation of second-half rebounding, because Duke is always a poor rebounding team.

sagegrouse

dukeofcalabash
03-05-2013, 08:16 PM
Be interested in detailed comments. Certainly didn't show much at the outset, but clearly got it together in the second half. Curry is closing in on 2000.

1. Curry is a shooter, nothing more, he got hot and scored some. Would make a great 6th man off the bench if we had another potential starter.
2. Mason plays too soft at times and then looks like King Kong. He needs to decide which way he wants to go.
3. Kelly is one tough hombre who can do a little bit of everything, stays pretty constant, and within his game.
4. Overall, too many defensive liabilities/lapses to expect this team to go far, but I'm expecting a miracle!
5. Love all of them, but wish there was consistency in this team.

Go Duke!

gocanes0506
03-05-2013, 08:24 PM
Well after seeing Alex Murphy attack the rim, he has some serious O talent. I think we are seeing a lack of playing time due to D skills that are not refined. It showed in the couple of minutes that he played. He flies out to players on the edge and they blow by him everytime.

This team will be nasty deep once he develops his D.

Congrats to the Seniors. Kelly was a little sluggish but like the announcers said these are times to get his stamina back up.

Luther
03-05-2013, 08:25 PM
2010:
Home / Neutral: 30-0
Road: 5-5

2013:
Home / Neutral: 22-0
Road: 4-4

The 2010 team is currently my favorite team for so many reasons but this team is giving them a run for their money. Thank you mason, Ryan and Seth!

NashvilleDevil
03-05-2013, 08:25 PM
1. Curry is a shooter, nothing more, he got hot and scored some. Would make a great 6th man off the bench if we had another potential starter.
2. Mason plays too soft at times and then looks like King Kong. He needs to decide which way he wants to go.
3. Kelly is one tough hombre who can do a little bit of everything, stays pretty constant, and within his game.
4. Overall, too many defensive liabilities/lapses to expect this team to go far, but I'm expecting a miracle!
5. Love all of them, but wish there was consistency in this team.

Go Duke!

This is satire right?

BobbyFan
03-05-2013, 08:26 PM
Nice win, I guess.

But our fans ruined it by not giving Erick Green a standing ovation when he checked out at the end. Absolutely disgusting.

NashvilleDevil
03-05-2013, 08:27 PM
Nice win, I guess.

But our fans ruined it by not giving Erick Green a standing ovation when he checked out at the end. Absolutely disgusting.

You're a satirist as well or is this Len Elmore?

sporthenry
03-05-2013, 08:28 PM
1. Curry is a shooter, nothing more, he got hot and scored some. Would make a great 6th man off the bench if we had another potential starter.


Really? The guy is 3rd in scoring in the ACC. I guess the ACC has a ton of bench players then.

dukelifer
03-05-2013, 08:30 PM
1. Curry is a shooter, nothing more, he got hot and scored some. Would make a great 6th man off the bench if we had another potential starter.
2. Mason plays too soft at times and then looks like King Kong. He needs to decide which way he wants to go.
3. Kelly is one tough hombre who can do a little bit of everything, stays pretty constant, and within his game.
4. Overall, too many defensive liabilities/lapses to expect this team to go far, but I'm expecting a miracle!
5. Love all of them, but wish there was consistency in this team.

Go Duke!

Still integrating Kelly into the lineup. They will get more consistent. Need Rasheed to play like he did in the closing minutes. This team is better with Kelly in the lineup- just need some more time together. Still would like to see Cook pass the ball more. The UNC game will show a lot.

g-money
03-05-2013, 08:34 PM
Don't mean to drop the L-bomb on you all, but here's what I see:

1) A highly cohesive unit that clearly benefited from Boot Camp at the beginning of the year
2) Three seniors who have given their all to their team and university, making 'the right play' over 'the highlight play' time and time again
3) A Coach that made a smart adjustment at halftime tonight by easing up the defense pressure a bit (as noted by CDu) - leading to only 22 points allowed in the second half
4) A supposed "glue guy" in Ryan Kelly having a Battier effect on our offensive efficiency the past two games

Next step: Beating Carolina at Carolina. I think it will happen.

Tell me when it's time to stop drinking the Kool Aid.

FerryFor50
03-05-2013, 08:39 PM
Nice win, I guess.

But our fans ruined it by not giving Erick Green a standing ovation when he checked out at the end. Absolutely disgusting.

I noticed that, too. Had to rewind it to make sure he actually said it. Hilarious.

SCMatt33
03-05-2013, 08:40 PM
Well there is certainly a lot left for this team to do if they want to get where they want to be in a month. You can see that the chemistry hasn't fully returned with Ryan. Mason looked a lot better in the second half when he was able to rest a few minutes in the first. Given that Ryan is back (I don't mind Ryan and Josh on the floor together because it keeps Josh inside), I'd like to see Mason rest (on purpose next time) more in the first half. It's going to be tough to balance, because with two of your starters not 100%, plus only playing a 7 man rotation (Unless something drastic happens, I don't see more than a token appearance for Amile other than blowouts) balancing reps for chemistry and rest to coax the team through March will be a tall order.

One thing that I think would help a lot, though I don't see it happening, is pulling in the D 10-15 ft. Duke is guarding pretty much the entire half court, and in the first 30 minutes of that game, it cost them on several occasions. Mason had trouble getting out that far to hedge, Seth was getting beat off the bounce, and Quinn was committing fouls. With Ryan not in great conditioning, it took a toll on his ability to play a ton of minutes when he wasn't running on pure adrenaline. With all of those things factored in, I really think they should only press out to 25 feet. They won't become UVA or anything, because a) they don't rebound well enough, and b) it's a little late to do anything more than tweak the defense, which is what I would consider this move. The biggest advantage of pressing out is forcing turnovers, and Duke just isn't doing that right now. Pressing to 25 feet only allows you to conserve some of the energy while still disrupting what they want to do in the half court. You will give up any chance at home run steals (which they didn't get anyway) and you allow a team to hold the ball (which would only help Duke get through 40 minutes).

While I might not being buying into the defensive strategy, I am buying into what the coaches have tried to do on offense. At the start of each half, and much of the time out of timeouts, Duke tried to get the ball inside, either to Mason or on the drive. Even when they weren't scoring, they got VT in big foul trouble, which helped Duke not get too far back early and helped stretch the lead early in the second. If you go back and look early in the year and cherry pick the 6 games against teams with a reasonable at large chance, games in which Duke would be more likely pushed outside, they only shot 29.2% of their shots from 3. In the last two games, that number is 42.6%, even with the concerted effort to get away from it. So far this year, this team has been great at not chucking the ball and has mostly avoided those 2-25 games that can happen (Miami excepted since they were never in that game to begin with), but they do shoot a lot of 3's when they're hot like the last two nights. So far they have gotten away with it, but even when hot, they can still have a cold spell at the wrong time. That's basically a long winded way of saying listen to the coaches and don't lapse into chucking, even if they're open. Variety is the spice of life.

Aside from the physical issues, a few guys seem mentally tired, namely Sheed and Tyler (for whom mentally tired means more than zero mental mistakes). Duke will play only one game in the next 9 days, so hopefully that will help these guys, because we'll need them a lot in (hopefully) the 25 days after that.

Meanwhile, if none of those things improve and this team is forced to try and shoot their way through the tourney, I've never seen a Duke team better equipped to try it than this one.

Bottom line, despite the two wins with Kelly back, this team has a long way to go to reach the mountaintop. The issues though, all seem fixable, even in a short timeframe. It's just a question of reps vs. rest, and who better to make that call than the best coach alive.

roywhite
03-05-2013, 08:47 PM
Duke 85 -- Va Tech 57 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=206617461)

4 turnovers and 17 assists for Duke; Mason and Ryan each had 5 assists (that's the kind of inside-out game K wants, I believe)
After a poor first half on the boards, Duke ended up with 37 rebounds to 31 for VaTech
Duke shot 51.7% FG; 52.2% 3-pt; 81.3% FT

FerryFor50
03-05-2013, 08:50 PM
Duke 85 -- Va Tech 57 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=206617461)

4 turnovers and 17 assists for Duke; Mason and Ryan each had 5 assists (that's the kind of inside-out game K wants, I believe)
After a poor first half on the boards, Duke ended up with 37 rebounds to 31 for VaTech
Duke shot 51.7% FG; 52.2% 3-pt; 81.3% FT

They definitely hit the boards harder in the 2nd half. I noticed Quinn crashing a lot - was good to see the guards hitting the glass.

KandG
03-05-2013, 08:57 PM
I've loved watching this team about as much as any Duke team in the last six to seven years, and it was a nice good bye to the seniors at Cameron, especially once Erick Green finally tired out. There were some things that were potential red flags that were pointed out by a previous commenter (most especially the porous high pick and roll defense and Mason's energy), but it's not fair to say too much since the guys were surely pretty emotional (and maybe a bit tired). If the issues continue in the ACC tournament, then it's worth discussing them in greater detail.

The crowd was fantastic and everything the seniors deserved.

Hope Seth is OK and Mason gets some mojo back with some extended rest after the Carolina game this weekend.

cptnflash
03-05-2013, 09:01 PM
They definitely hit the boards harder in the 2nd half. I noticed Quinn crashing a lot - was good to see the guards hitting the glass.

Something tells me the locker room was not a fun place to be at halftime. Especially for Rasheed. Hard to blame the guys, though... seems like it would be easy to let up a bit in between Ryan's emotion return and the Carolina game, especially against a totally overmatched opponent.

Anyway, on to the games that matter. I'm really interested to see how well we play defense against Carolina, particuarly in the charged up Gameday environment. Should be a good test that will tell us a lot more about our new team than these past two games have.

roywhite
03-05-2013, 09:07 PM
I've loved watching this team about as much as any Duke team in the last six to seven years, and it was a nice good bye to the seniors at Cameron, especially once Erick Green finally tired out. There were some things that were potential red flags that were pointed out by a previous commenter (most especially the porous high pick and roll defense and Mason's energy), but it's not fair to say too much since the guys were surely pretty emotional (and maybe a bit tired). If the issues continue in the ACC tournament, then it's worth discussing them in greater detail.

The crowd was fantastic and everything the seniors deserved.

Hope Seth is OK and Mason gets some mojo back with some extended rest after the Carolina game this weekend.

Mason has carried a heavy load this year; he's been essential for scoring, rebounding, defense, and leadership.
Leads the team with 34.6 minutes per game; that's more minutes than you'd want your big guy inside to have, I'd say.

Having only one game in the next 10 days should help.
And help Ryan with his conditioning, too.

ChrisP
03-05-2013, 09:09 PM
Still not sure what to make of this team, but of course, I was really pleased with the play in the 2nd half. Mason looked like a different player out there and we played much better on D and got boards. As someone else mentioned, I do hope Seth's ok (didn't look all that serious to me - maybe kicked in the shin?) and that all the guys can get some rest before UNC and then the tough stretch of the ACC Tourney, where I'm hoping we play 3 games in 3 days :cool:

Obviously, we did just beat Miami on Saturday and then looked pretty good for about 24 minutes tonight, but the game @UNC will surely be a test. I just read where another poster mentioned the College Gameday crew is coming to CH for that, though and...I hate that. The last two times they've been in Durham for this end-of-season game, we've played like doggie doo doo. But...this one's in Chapel Hill, so hopefully, we'll play better. I think we'll all have a better sense of how good this team can be after seeing how they perform in a hostile, road environment with RK back.

mike88
03-05-2013, 09:10 PM
Ryan and Seth have a lethal two-man game going on offense. If Quin continues to knock down open shots and Mason can provide some inside presence, we won't hurt for scoring. Tyler's defense really made a big difference tonight but we need Sheed to get right (on both ends) -- the last couple of minutes gave a hint that he is figuring it out.

Ggallagher
03-05-2013, 09:23 PM
I noticed that, too. Had to rewind it to make sure he actually said it. Hilarious.

Really wish Elmore would have taken the time to step in front of the crowd at Maryland a couple of weeks ago when Mason and Seth played their last game there and let those great Maryland fans know how disappointed he was that THEY didn't honor those two wonderful seniors.
I think we might have been done with him forever if he had expressed the same sentiment in front of that crowd that he did in Durham tonight.

wallyman
03-05-2013, 09:43 PM
Think this board sometimes overdoes the They-Hate-Us victimization riff, but Len Elmore is the absolute worst. If he hates Duke games so much, ESPN must be able to find other things for him to do. The Green whine, even for him, was off the charts...

-bdbd
03-05-2013, 09:45 PM
Relative to his normal disdainful schtick, I thought Elmore had generally toned it down a bit overall tonight. Had to get a stupid dig in at the end thou, of course. Just dopey.

Great to see RK integrating more and more. Obviously the D and the communication was much better in the second half. I really like it when (second half) the guards get very active on the boards too. That stats undervalued it a little in this one as I saw at least a couple times - I think it was Cook - guards keeping (tipping) the rebound alive. Though a "big" might have ultimately corralled it, the guards were what prevented VPI from getting it first.

Was really surprised to see Ryan and Mason play so many minutes, but I assume K was just using the opportunity to build up some endurance. When you're up by 25+ with three minutes left, there's really no other reason to have four starters still in. (If I were an opposing fan, that would really torque me.)

Great home finale for the four seniors. :D

gep
03-05-2013, 09:52 PM
Was really surprised to see Ryan and Mason play so many minutes, but I assume K was just using the opportunity to build up some endurance. When you're up by 25+ with three minutes left, there's really no other reason to have four starters still in. (If I were an opposing fan, that would really torque me.)

I recall from the beginning of the season, that Coach K said that he's gotta develop the "team". At this point, with so few games left, he's gotta give the starters the most time possible to continue to gel... not too sure about endurance at this point (my 1/2 cents):cool:

moonpie23
03-05-2013, 09:54 PM
i listened to the radio....what did elmore say?

Furniture
03-05-2013, 09:58 PM
Are Indiana going down?

DukeDevil
03-05-2013, 10:07 PM
Are Indiana going down?

That they are!

Furniture
03-05-2013, 10:08 PM
Happy Senior night Indiana!

MCFinARL
03-05-2013, 10:09 PM
Are Indiana going down?

Yes. Lost by 9.

NovaScotian
03-05-2013, 10:47 PM
any word about the senior speeches?

uh_no
03-05-2013, 11:03 PM
any word about the senior speeches?

mason told the students they should head to g-boro and hotlanta (explicitly suggesting that all duke students drive nice cars)

seth said thank you to the fans

kelly said he imagined being at duke since he came to a duke camp in middle school, then thanked a ton of people including his family, girlfriend, HS coach, and students

mkirsh
03-05-2013, 11:21 PM
any word about the senior speeches?

If you have the Watch ESPN app they have the senior speeches availalbe on replay - all were great.

Any word on Rasheed? Only played 17 minutes and didn't look like himself until the very end. Lingering injury/illness?

greybeard
03-06-2013, 12:37 AM
1. Curry is a shooter, nothing more, he got hot and scored some. Would make a great 6th man off the bench if we had another potential starter.
2. Mason plays too soft at times and then looks like King Kong. He needs to decide which way he wants to go.
3. Kelly is one tough hombre who can do a little bit of everything, stays pretty constant, and within his game.
4. Overall, too many defensive liabilities/lapses to expect this team to go far, but I'm expecting a miracle!
5. Love all of them, but wish there was consistency in this team.

Go Duke!

Cook and Curry get to the paint and often to the rim and finish, scoring or getting fouled on a ridiculous percentage.

K has featured the 3-ball since bevore it was invented. Must have crunched the numbers. I do not think that there is a guy in college, perhaps anywhere who sets his feet and lets it go quicker than Curry who makes 3-point plays out of nothing very often. They are called "back breakers." When teams try to take the three away, Curry goes to the basket at an even pace, under control, and sees a lane and takes/makes it, draws a foul, or shots a floater and hits that.

The offenses of the guards you are comparing him with clear away help defense inside, have them keep their dribble, and then "go" when they get the defender to shift their momentum even a little, rising because the guy with the ball raises an eyebrow, or gives some other "tell" like he is going right only he has not I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ed his weight to the right, and then goes left where the clear out was created. These offenses are geared to break down defenses and get 2s. K uses Curry to get 3s for 2 and put the other team in the hole. Miami was commited to stopping Curry from getting off no matter what. Before Ryan came back, and blew everyone's mind, it worked and the U would have won. Had they played Curry straight up, he would have had his 20 or more, and would have occupied Harris much more on D and taken some of the winds out of his sails.

Curry starts anywhere that wants to feature the 3 ball which is anywhere where the coach has any sense. As for keeping "these blazers" in front of him, the announcers forgot for a second the the guy tonight is the leading scorer in the nation and the guy from the U is, according to K, the best guard in the nation. 3s for 2s wins when you shot a percentage like Duke. Curry makes the clock tick. Ryan even tonight is showing a game that is on an entirely different level. That little spin jumpshot inside the lane, the up and under move, were not there before the injury--the spin he never made and the up and under is new. His mid range game and scoring going to the basket is much better and much more featured than before injury.

Mason sometimes looks tentative, but I think that that is coach's direction. By and large he gets tentative when he starts out further than the block, or otherwise starts a move that leaves him with a low percentage look. He is exhibiting great judgment in kicking it out when high percentage is not there. Maybe he could get to "socring position" more often, but he has shown real diversity in finishing at the rim. What he needs is a 15 foot jump shot, imo to play on the next level. Now, a little rest wouldn't hurt but otherwise he is doing terrific work as Duke's lone inside scoring presence, so much so that he is in the hunt for POY.

Cook in my opinion is playing the point for his team as well as any guard I've seen. Harris is a scorer, so is this guy from Ua Tech. Cook has started scoring the ball like he did at Dematha, which is to say when his scoring is needed and he does it with ease and supreme confidence. Two shots stand out--a three when Tech closed mid way in the second half, came off a screen in the middle but real high, and relaxed and composed as could be took the space that the defender allowed him and switched it while stopping and facing up off the dribble to his right (not easy). He is playing defense better and better, he disrupts what the other team is running, gets his hands on passes and is not making mistakes in what seems like some pretty complicated and changing man with different double team and zone principles (confuses me).

Tyler is playing terrific basketball, see the article in which K couldn't stop praising him.

Rasheed is the speed, mid sized rugged defender to go with Tyler and shows that he can stand up in clutch situations and deliver. He is a two playing a three against some very athletic, talented and much taller and stronger opponents. He is holding his own.

The team has been rated in the top 5 all season, is undefeated with Ryan and a very credible 9 and what 3 or 4 without him. Weaknessses? Well they are not Magics showtime or Bird's Celtics, nor are they Laetner's Duke teams. But inconsistent they are not. Formidable, very formidable, they are.

Henderson
03-06-2013, 03:24 AM
Kelly looks better now than he did before he was injured. Maybe the injury just gave him time to focus on some moves/shots. I just feel as though I'm looking at a different offensive weapon with different defensive focus and awareness. The moves are different and better. He was good before, but I'm seeing a blossoming. Dude could explode all over the NCAAT, bringing MP2 and the guards with him as a result of the attention teams need to pay to him.

Or maybe I need to stop hyperventilating after only two games back.

Saratoga2
03-06-2013, 05:20 AM
Relative to his normal disdainful schtick, I thought Elmore had generally toned it down a bit overall tonight. Had to get a stupid dig in at the end thou, of course. Just dopey.

Great to see RK integrating more and more. Obviously the D and the communication was much better in the second half. I really like it when (second half) the guards get very active on the boards too. That stats undervalued it a little in this one as I saw at least a couple times - I think it was Cook - guards keeping (tipping) the rebound alive. Though a "big" might have ultimately corralled it, the guards were what prevented VPI from getting it first.

Was really surprised to see Ryan and Mason play so many minutes, but I assume K was just using the opportunity to build up some endurance. When you're up by 25+ with three minutes left, there's really no other reason to have four starters still in. (If I were an opposing fan, that would really torque me.)

Great home finale for the four seniors. :D

On senior night, you play your seniors and take them out one at a time to allow the fans to show appreciation.

tbyers11
03-06-2013, 05:24 AM
Kelly looks better now than he did before he was injured. Maybe the injury just gave him time to focus on some moves/shots. I just feel as though I'm looking at a different offensive weapon with different defensive focus and awareness. The moves are different and better. He was good before, but I'm seeing a blossoming. Dude could explode all over the NCAAT, bringing MP2 and the guards with him as a result of the attention teams need to pay to him.

Or maybe I need to stop hyperventilating after only two games back.

I agree with the fact that Ryan looks really good. Maybe it is the fact that teams haven't really game planned to stop him. However, as you point out, if our opponents do that it should result in better offensive opportunities for the rest of our arsenal.

I like to think of it as cautiously hyperventilating ;)

Bomar
03-06-2013, 05:27 AM
Nothing much for me to say that hasn't already been said. Loved Kelly's second performance after injury. He's back, and he is a BEAST all of the sudden. Love it. Seth was cold at first, but like I've seen in many games once he (and most shooters) saw the ball go through the net a couple of times, he warmed up quite nicely. I was glad to Mason start being the Mason we love in the second half.

Also, I loved the Crazies chanting "We want Todd!" once the senior starters were checking out.

dyedwab
03-06-2013, 05:45 AM
After watching the first half, I would have never believed that we would win by 28 points. I thought we really locked down on the defensive end.

1) Good to see Ryan play well in the second games. Was a little concerned that after the performance in Miami and his first game back, he would be a game-tired. That didn't happen - huge credit to him.

2) Erick Green is really, really good.

3) 5 assists each from Ryan and Mason. I especially like Ryan's dump off to a wide open Quinn for a layup. I'm not sure anyone else has two big men with the passing skills of our guys.

A nice win. Now lets kick Caroina's butt....

Zeke
03-06-2013, 09:05 AM
Isn't Zafirovsky a senior? Isn't it a tradition that seniors start? Not only did he not start he wasn't even mentioned, nor in the photo op. I'm not sure what this means, but I don't think I like it.

Dukeblue91
03-06-2013, 09:07 AM
Isn't Zafirovsky a senior? Isn't it a tradition that seniors start? Not only did he not start he wasn't even mentioned, nor in the photo op. I'm not sure what this means, but I don't think I like it.

It means that he is coming back next year for his 5th and actual final year.

jcastranio
03-06-2013, 09:33 AM
I notice that, with Ryan back, Rasheed seems a little unsure of his role. This is something that will work itself out, but he seemed to hesitate on pulling the trigger on shooting or driving - something he didn't have the luxury to do for about 13 games. In fact, I got the sense on offense (when the starting five were in) that it is an embarrassment of riches. Inside? Outside? Seth? Ryan? etc. That is a good thing, but still is a factor to work out.

First half defense - terrible help defense on the ball screen. I noticed that Ryan, early in the second half, played it right and forced Eric Green back and wide - then recovered to his man. After Ryan did that twice, Mason did it. While Green still got some, it seemed much more difficult for him in the second half. The rest of the team was just shut out.

COYS
03-06-2013, 09:41 AM
First half defense - terrible help defense on the ball screen. I noticed that Ryan, early in the second half, played it right and forced Eric Green back and wide - then recovered to his man. After Ryan did that twice, Mason did it. While Green still got some, it seemed much more difficult for him in the second half. The rest of the team was just shut out.

Ryan hedged well in the first half, too. When Green got into the lane, it was almost always Mason who was attempting to hedge and recover. In the second half, although Mason still had a few lapses, both he and Ryan hedged on Green much longer, leaving the offensively challenged VaTech screen setters open in favor of crowding Green and the other guards. Good adjustment by the staff and the players. This doesn't work against a team like Miami when Kadji sets a screen because he's a threat to drain threes, but against a team like VaTech it's a great move.

Overall, that was a great game and a really good second half. I was glad to see Mason play strong in the post in the second half. Seth was doing his thing, and Ryan looks like he took an offseason off to refine his skills and is now back for a 5th year. The second half defense was excellent and I hope we see more of that in the coming days. Offensively, with Ryan back, we may very well have the best offense in the country. At the very least, we will give Indiana a run for the money.

If I have any complaints, it would be that Mason's hedging has been wildly inconsistent for a while, now, which has made dribble penetration really easy. The other complaint is that Quinn needs to do a better job using ball screens on the perimeter. Making his defender run into a Josh Hairston pick a few times might make that defender just a little gun-shy. That can only be a good thing. If Mason can cut off 2-4 more drives per game with his hedging, i think it will make a big difference with our overall defense.

roywhite
03-06-2013, 09:49 AM
I notice that, with Ryan back, Rasheed seems a little unsure of his role. This is something that will work itself out, but he seemed to hesitate on pulling the trigger on shooting or driving - something he didn't have the luxury to do for about 13 games. In fact, I got the sense on offense (when the starting five were in) that it is an embarrassment of riches. Inside? Outside? Seth? Ryan? etc. That is a good thing, but still is a factor to work out.

First half defense - terrible help defense on the ball screen. I noticed that Ryan, early in the second half, played it right and forced Eric Green back and wide - then recovered to his man. After Ryan did that twice, Mason did it. While Green still got some, it seemed much more difficult for him in the second half. The rest of the team was just shut out.

Good comments.

Yeah, I think Rasheed will get some attention in practice the next few days, likely a combination of criticism and encouragement. The main negative is that when things aren't going well for him on offense, the rest of his game can suffer. It happened early in the year when he wasn't shooting well, and became unproductive in other areas; after not starting for a game, he made adjustments and played very well. Last night, he wasn't going for rebounds or playing good defense and sat on the bench for long spells. To his credit, he came in late and hit a couple of shots.

Ryan needs conditioning, but it appears the time off may be a positive factor in his seeing the game better and realizing just what an offensive (and defensive) force he can be for this team. Mason mostly needs some rest and rejuvenation IMO. I expect him to perform well Saturday and in the post-season.

With some good practice time, and rest worked in, this team can improve significantly in the next few weeks IMO. They'll be fun to watch.

COYS
03-06-2013, 10:11 AM
Good comments.

Yeah, I think Rasheed will get some attention in practice the next few days, likely a combination of criticism and encouragement. The main negative is that when things aren't going well for him on offense, the rest of his game can suffer. It happened early in the year when he wasn't shooting well, and became unproductive in other areas; after not starting for a game, he made adjustments and played very well. Last night, he wasn't going for rebounds or playing good defense and sat on the bench for long spells. To his credit, he came in late and hit a couple of shots.

Ryan needs conditioning, but it appears the time off may be a positive factor in his seeing the game better and realizing just what an offensive (and defensive) force he can be for this team. Mason mostly needs some rest and rejuvenation IMO. I expect him to perform well Saturday and in the post-season.

With some good practice time, and rest worked in, this team can improve significantly in the next few weeks IMO. They'll be fun to watch.

Good comments from both of you about Rasheed. One thing I noticed about his play on offense is that earlier in the season when he went through a mini-slump, he often drove the lane and tried to get all the way to the rim, even when he didn't have an angle. This would result in a really difficult shot or a turnover. He adjusted and started using his pull-up jumper from 15 feet more frequently, which opened the game up for him. It also helped him get back to facilitating for others, as he kept his head up and played under control. The past few games, he seems to be reverting to putting his head down and driving all the way to the rim no matter what. In fact, I think he's gone two games now without even attempting a pull-up jumper. He's only attempted threes and layups/runners/floaters. That mid-range jumper is a killer weapon for him that he has used effectively at various points this season. I hope he brings it back again.

As for his defense, he seems to be moving a bit more slowly through screens. it could be a combo of being a freshman and wearing down and the somewhat insane slate of games without much rest Duke has had, recently. Hopefully the extra time off this week will help him mentally and physically and he'll be ready to lock down PJ Hairston and Bullock come Saturday.

Zephyrius
03-06-2013, 10:19 AM
Good comments from both of you about Rasheed. One thing I noticed about his play on offense is that earlier in the season when he went through a mini-slump, he often drove the lane and tried to get all the way to the rim, even when he didn't have an angle. This would result in a really difficult shot or a turnover. He adjusted and started using his pull-up jumper from 15 feet more frequently, which opened the game up for him. It also helped him get back to facilitating for others, as he kept his head up and played under control. The past few games, he seems to be reverting to putting his head down and driving all the way to the rim no matter what. In fact, I think he's gone two games now without even attempting a pull-up jumper. He's only attempted threes and layups/runners/floaters. That mid-range jumper is a killer weapon for him that he has used effectively at various points this season. I hope he brings it back again.

As for his defense, he seems to be moving a bit more slowly through screens. it could be a combo of being a freshman and wearing down and the somewhat insane slate of games without much rest Duke has had, recently. Hopefully the extra time off this week will help him mentally and physically and he'll be ready to lock down PJ Hairston and Bullock come Saturday.

I agree with this, but I think the most noticeable thing from the game last night was his non-confidence in his three-point shot. There were plenty of times when someone would drive (Cook/Kelly/Mason) and kick out to him for a pretty open three. He'd hesitate on the shot and essentially lose the open three he had. While he isn't a knock-down shooter like Curry, I think he needs to take those shots. The more people respect that he can and will take threes (and make them), the more open his driving lanes will be. Although if he continues to improve his floater (which I believe to be more important than his mid-range jumper at this point given his style of play), he'll be able to contribute a lot more.

Henderson
03-06-2013, 10:29 AM
I'm glad the guys are going to get some much-needed rest. They've played 3 games in 6 days. Now they have only 1 game in almost a week-and-a-half. Anyone remember the name of that "school" they're playing? It's the one that gives out A's for correspondence courses involving no correspondence. Anyhoo....

Fatigue is a subtle thing, and it can be cumulative. It's both physical and mental. I think that may be part of the reason Sheed didn't have any "spunk" last night (K's word, not mine). I thought Mason looked leaden during parts of the Miami game, though he fought through it. Seth took a knee to his nagging shin last night, though he says he'll be alright. And Ryan still has that foot. No one says it's 100%.

We've seen in the past two games what a little rest can do for a player's game. It's an underestimated variable this time of year for all teams. This team has been playing at an extremely high level with a pretty brutal schedule the past week. Now they have fewer games for a bit, and they won't have to travel further than Greensboro for more than two weeks.

Carolina is always huge, and it would be so very sweet to ruin their Senior Night. But after that our NCAAT run depends more on adequate rest than any other single factor I can think of. Except for injuries of course, but even those are more likely when the player is fatigued.

Rest up, gents. Then pound the hated holes, and rest some more. Then bring home that ACC trophy and some netting from Atlanta. Color me a believer. Our chances are as good as any team's.

Wander
03-06-2013, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I think Rasheed will get some attention in practice the next few days, likely a combination of criticism and encouragement. The main negative is that when things aren't going well for him on offense, the rest of his game can suffer. It happened early in the year when he wasn't shooting well, and became unproductive in other areas; after not starting for a game, he made adjustments and played very well. Last night, he wasn't going for rebounds or playing good defense and sat on the bench for long spells. To his credit, he came in late and hit a couple of shots.


Worth noting that the same thing happened in the Miami game too. I actually found it sort of impressive in a way, especially from a freshman: that he had such a poor game, then made a few great plays to go take us from a 3 point lead to a 7 point lead.

Kedsy
03-06-2013, 11:20 AM
Kelly looks better now than he did before he was injured.

This was my first thought as well, until I remembered how Ryan was playing just before he was injured. In his three games in January, Ryan put up 18 and 7 against Davidson, then 22 and 4 (in just 18 minutes!) against Wake, and before he got hurt he scored 12 points with 6 boards in a half (a half in which Duke only scored 25 points total and Clemson had just 10). So in those last two games he had 34 points in 37 minutes played (not that far off from the 36 points in 32 minutes he pasted on Miami, in fact if you factor in that Duke only had 29 possessions in the first half against Clemson, his ppp was probably better in the Wake and Clemson games than it was against Miami). In the nine games after we got back from the Islands and before he got hurt, Ryan shot 21 for 31 from three-land (68%).

So maybe it's more accurate to say he picked up right where he left off. Which in and of itself is pretty remarkable.

Henderson
03-06-2013, 11:29 AM
This was my first thought as well, until I remembered how Ryan was playing just before he was injured. In his three games in January, Ryan put up 18 and 7 against Davidson, then 22 and 4 (in just 18 minutes!) against Wake, and before he got hurt he scored 12 points with 6 boards in a half (a half in which Duke only scored 25 points total and Clemson had just 10). So in those last two games he had 34 points in 37 minutes played (not that far off from the 36 points in 32 minutes he pasted on Miami, in fact if you factor in that Duke only had 29 possessions in the first half against Clemson, his ppp was probably better in the Wake and Clemson games than it was against Miami). In the nine games after we got back from the Islands and before he got hurt, Ryan shot 21 for 31 from three-land (68%).

So maybe it's more accurate to say he picked up right where he left off. Which in and of itself is pretty remarkable.

True all that. But consider HOW he has played. I've been looking at the tapes, and his game has changed. Sometimes we get stat-obsessed, and there is a lot more to look at.

What I see is a Ryan Kelly with better moves, both offensively and defensively, than he had before. His hedging is better, his aggressiveness on defense is better, and he's killing people with that up-and-under move. Other examples abound. That may or may not result in stats, depending on teammates and team needs. But I think his game has developed to a higher level, at least based on the limited sample we have so far. As I've said in other posts, I wouldn't discount the value of rest.

Kedsy
03-06-2013, 12:05 PM
True all that. But consider HOW he has played. I've been looking at the tapes, and his game has changed. Sometimes we get stat-obsessed, and there is a lot more to look at.

What I see is a Ryan Kelly with better moves, both offensively and defensively, than he had before. His hedging is better, his aggressiveness on defense is better, and he's killing people with that up-and-under move. Other examples abound. That may or may not result in stats, depending on teammates and team needs. But I think his game has developed to a higher level, at least based on the limited sample we have so far. As I've said in other posts, I wouldn't discount the value of rest.

You may be right. But I also think a lot of us (not necessarily you) may be forgetting at just how high a level he was playing before he got hurt.

Billy Dat
03-06-2013, 12:33 PM
True all that. But consider HOW he has played. I've been looking at the tapes, and his game has changed. Sometimes we get stat-obsessed, and there is a lot more to look at.

What I see is a Ryan Kelly with better moves, both offensively and defensively, than he had before. His hedging is better, his aggressiveness on defense is better, and he's killing people with that up-and-under move. Other examples abound. That may or may not result in stats, depending on teammates and team needs. But I think his game has developed to a higher level, at least based on the limited sample we have so far. As I've said in other posts, I wouldn't discount the value of rest.

It almost seems like the forced bench time allowed him to objectively analyze what the team most needed upon his return and he has been fulfilling it. On the offensive end, it seems like he basically has assumed that he should be the first option and is being super aggressive hunting for his scoring opportunities - which is awesome! If and when opposing defenses adjust, it'll open things up for everyone else.

I also agree with Kedsy that, when he got hurt, he was playing as well, if not better, then anyone on the team. He kind of started slow this year and got eclipsed by Mason but Kelly was surging when he hurt his foot.

dukelifer
03-06-2013, 12:54 PM
It almost seems like the forced bench time allowed him to objectively analyze what the team most needed upon his return and he has been fulfilling it. On the offensive end, it seems like he basically has assumed that he should be the first option and is being super aggressive hunting for his scoring opportunities - which is awesome! If and when opposing defenses adjust, it'll open things up for everyone else.

I also agree with Kedsy that, when he got hurt, he was playing as well, if not better, then anyone on the team. He kind of started slow this year and got eclipsed by Mason but Kelly was surging when he hurt his foot.

People tend to downplay the mental part of basketball. I think Kelly has crossed that barrier where he is now ready to be a pro. The college game has slowed down where it is pretty simple- he knows what he can do and he now a man playing against boys in the mental aspects of the game. Kelly always had skills but at times lacked the confidence to fully utilize them. As a freshman he deferred too much. He is now understanding his college career is nearly over and is playing the game with a new found openness and freedom. He simply looks like the smartest guy out there and is not expending excess energy to get things accomplished. Shane, Laettner, Hill, Smith, Redick, etc all did this in their senior years. In many ways, Green for Va Tech has reached this level. While Kelly will not get his jersey retired- he is a gifted player who got better every year.

Billy Dat
03-06-2013, 01:29 PM
People tend to downplay the mental part of basketball. I think Kelly has crossed that barrier where he is now ready to be a pro. The college game has slowed down where it is pretty simple- he knows what he can do and he now a man playing against boys in the mental aspects of the game. Kelly always had skills but at times lacked the confidence to fully utilize them. As a freshman he deferred too much. He is now understanding his college career is nearly over and is playing the game with a new found openness and freedom. He simply looks like the smartest guy out there and is not expending excess energy to get things accomplished. Shane, Laettner, Hill, Smith, Redick, etc all did this in their senior years. In many ways, Green for Va Tech has reached this level. While Kelly will not get his jersey retired- he is a gifted player who got better every year.

Very well said. He is playing with supreme confidence.

Here's an interesting stat look from last night, name which 3 players put up these lines:
14 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists
14 pts, 6 rebs, 2 assts
18 pts, 9 rebs, 5 assts

That would be Mason, Quinn, and Ryan respectively. Did our guard play like a big or did our bigs play like guards? Does it matter?

I stumbled across that anomaly because it felt like Quinn played a really effective game and I wanted to see how the stat lines supported that feeling. I was surprised at his relatively small number of assists and his relatively high number of rebounds. He is very close to being a very good point guard - greybeard had some good observations in his earlier post - he just needs to be more consistent which I think will come with greater focus. I am tempted to say I'd like to see a little less swagger from him on routine plays, but I fear I'll start sounding more stodgy then I actually am. He could use one of those video highlight reels that show him over-reacting to what he perceives to be bad calls - the head hanging and such - but I know I feel really good when he lets one fly from 3, and now, as others have said, I want him to drive harder off those high screens to put more pressure on the D.

Speaking of driving hard off screens, Erick Green is a ridiculously gifted scorer. I bow down.

The ACC season really shook out well for Duke. We had an easier patch right after Ryan went down (save for the State game), faced some insanely intense road atmospheres (BC, Maryland, Virginia and Wake) and have faced some teams late playing their best ball (Miami, Virginia, and UNC one presumes). The ACC might not be the Big 10, but we've had some solid competition, especially on the road. UNC will be really tough - they will certainly try to run us into the ground.

Saratoga2
03-06-2013, 01:35 PM
I'm glad the guys are going to get some much-needed rest. They've played 3 games in 6 days. Now they have only 1 game in almost a week-and-a-half. Anyone remember the name of that "school" they're playing? It's the one that gives out A's for correspondence courses involving no correspondence. Anyhoo....

Fatigue is a subtle thing, and it can be cumulative. It's both physical and mental. I think that may be part of the reason Sheed didn't have any "spunk" last night (K's word, not mine). I thought Mason looked leaden during parts of the Miami game, though he fought through it. Seth took a knee to his nagging shin last night, though he says he'll be alright. And Ryan still has that foot. No one says it's 100%.

We've seen in the past two games what a little rest can do for a player's game. It's an underestimated variable this time of year for all teams. This team has been playing at an extremely high level with a pretty brutal schedule the past week. Now they have fewer games for a bit, and they won't have to travel further than Greensboro for more than two weeks.

Carolina is always huge, and it would be so very sweet to ruin their Senior Night. But after that our NCAAT run depends more on adequate rest than any other single factor I can think of. Except for injuries of course, but even those are more likely when the player is fatigued.

Rest up, gents. Then pound the hated holes, and rest some more. Then bring home that ACC trophy and some netting from Atlanta. Color me a believer. Our chances are as good as any team's.

The truth is that Mason had a series of games that were not up to his previous ones after Ryan went down. At that point, he was often doubled, so his offense was not very effective and we heard coach K say that it was important for Mason to stay in the games ( More important than playing defense?). So Mason was being manhandled by defenses and was getting mixed messages on playing defense. Last night people were saying his movement looked leaden in the first half and then he looked more like the good Mason in the second half. Since he should have been more tired near the end of the game, it doesn't compute that physical tiredness played a part in the difference in performance. As far as mental fatigue is concerned I don't understand how that works. He is a great athlete, smart young man and is gifted. Go out and play hard and the coaches should encourage that. I think Mason truly had a shot as player of the year, but his performance over many games was sub-par. That's okay, he still is a very important part of this team and needs to be encouraged to perform at his best.

Kedsy
03-06-2013, 01:47 PM
Kelly always had skills but at times lacked the confidence to fully utilize them. As a freshman he deferred too much.

As a freshman, Ryan played 91 minutes in 28 games after January 1 (3.3 mpg), and most of those minutes were in garbage time. I'm not sure the issue was excessive deference.

I agree that even then he seemed to have the potential to eventually end up as a special player. It's cool that it really has ended up that way.

jimsumner
03-06-2013, 01:51 PM
As a freshman, Ryan played 91 minutes in 28 games after January 1 (3.3 mpg), and most of those minutes were in garbage time. I'm not sure the issue was excessive deference.

I agree that even then he seemed to have the potential to eventually end up as a special player. It's cool that it really has ended up that way.

Kelly was really skinny as a freshman. He needed to develop his body to handle the rigors of ACC basketball. He also was on a frontcourt that included Kyle Singler, Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek, Miles Plumlee and Mason Plumlee. Only so much PT to go around.

freshmanjs
03-06-2013, 01:54 PM
Kelly was really skinny as a freshman. He needed to develop his body to handle the rigors of ACC basketball. He also was on a frontcourt that included Kyle Singler, Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek, Miles Plumlee and Mason Plumlee. Only so much PT to go around.

Kelly's career arc is a great reminder that we need to have patience with these guys and the coaching staff. Look at Erick Green and how far he's come each year. I fully expect that Murphy and Jefferson will be really important players for Duke over the next 3 years (and that can happen even though they didn't get a huge amount of playing time this year when Ryan was healthy).

Kedsy
03-06-2013, 02:03 PM
Kelly was really skinny as a freshman. He needed to develop his body to handle the rigors of ACC basketball. He also was on a frontcourt that included Kyle Singler, Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek, Miles Plumlee and Mason Plumlee. Only so much PT to go around.

Oh, I know. I also think the college game was just a bit too fast for Ryan as well his freshman year. But the potential was there. At the time, I predicted a Tom Gugliotta type of progression for Ryan. He didn't quite get there, but to me it seems like a similar arc. The progress he's made has been wonderful to watch.

Zeke
03-06-2013, 02:05 PM
It means that he is coming back next year for his 5th and actual final year.

Thanks, I thought this was his last year.

TruBlu
03-06-2013, 02:44 PM
Speaking of driving hard off screens, Erick Green is a ridiculously gifted scorer. I bow down.


Are you trying to make up to Len Elmore for Erick not getting a standing ovation in Cameron?;)

Billy Dat
03-06-2013, 02:53 PM
Are you trying to make up to Len Elmore for Erick not getting a standing ovation in Cameron?;)

Guilty as charged. I also meant to laud his tenure as the CEO of iHoops
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/02/06/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/iHoops.aspx

greybeard
03-06-2013, 02:59 PM
Good comments from both of you about Rasheed. One thing I noticed about his play on offense is that earlier in the season when he went through a mini-slump, he often drove the lane and tried to get all the way to the rim, even when he didn't have an angle. This would result in a really difficult shot or a turnover. He adjusted and started using his pull-up jumper from 15 feet more frequently, which opened the game up for him. It also helped him get back to facilitating for others, as he kept his head up and played under control. The past few games, he seems to be reverting to putting his head down and driving all the way to the rim no matter what. In fact, I think he's gone two games now without even attempting a pull-up jumper. He's only attempted threes and layups/runners/floaters. That mid-range jumper is a killer weapon for him that he has used effectively at various points this season. I hope he brings it back again.

As for his defense, he seems to be moving a bit more slowly through screens. it could be a combo of being a freshman and wearing down and the somewhat insane slate of games without much rest Duke has had, recently. Hopefully the extra time off this week will help him mentally and physically and he'll be ready to lock down PJ Hairston and Bullock come Saturday.

1. Rasheed might be really, really tired, perhaps mentally more than physically.

2. In Kelly's absence, he was asked to and did play with incredible intensity on the defensive end and look to score as a second/third option from the exterior. This might well be impacting negatively on his game right now. In addition, with Ryan back with his new very effective mid range game together with his shooting 3s with remarkable accuracy, Rasheed is pretty far down the food chain on offense; among, the starters, last with considerable space between him and Cook, the guy immediately above him on the peeking order..

3. In these circumstances, Rasheed might be holding back on offense situationally on K's direction.

ArtVandelay
03-06-2013, 03:03 PM
This thread is way too positive. Where is all the complaining from the Miami in-game thread? I'll contribute my main gripes:

1. Ball screen defense, still. Mason has been particularly frustrating to watch lately on this score. He is just way too slow on his hedges. He either does not get out quick enough, rendering it ineffective, or he is waaaaayyy slow recovering back to his man. This didn't hurt us too much last night, but there seem to be too many times where our defense is scrambling around to adjust because we can't seem to defend a simply high ball screen.

2. Not protecting the rim. Once the initial man gets beat on dribble penetration, we aren't doing a good job on the second line of defense. Hopefully Kelly will help with this, as he is our best help-side defender. But Mason seems tentative. He doesn't try to block shots and makes half-assed efforts to take charges, which never go well. Josh also wants to take a charge every time, although at least he is pretty good at it. I would like to see our help defense actually try to defend the basket and at least make it hard for the other team to get a lay-up for a change. I'm not too worried about picking up a few fouls here and there. We need to put the fear of God (i.e. Mason) in people who want to drive into the teeth of our D.

3. Passing off dribble penetration. Rasheed and Quinn both can get to the basket, but they both are trying to force very difficult shots around the bucket. To Quinn's credit, the kid can really put crazy spin on the ball. Did anyone notice that one layup he almost made where the ball almost went over the top of the backboard? Anyway. Quinn is actually good at getting to the basket, but it would be great if he could keep his head up a bit more to facilitate easy baskets for teammates. Amile seems to have a knack for making himself available for such passes. I know he's not going to see much burn at this point, so hopefully others can replicate that. Easier said than done, I know.

4. Getting Mason the ball in scoring position. It seems like teams are doing a better job preventing this lately. Time for K to adjust and make sure he gets his touches. When he catches close to the basket, good things happen more often than not.

Ok, gripe fest over. Nice win last night. Team seems to be re-gelling into early season form with Kelly back. Agreed with other posters that Carolina will be a good test. A true road win would be great for our confidence.

roywhite
03-06-2013, 03:13 PM
1. Rasheed might be really, really tired, perhaps mentally more than physically.

2. In Kelly's absence, he was asked to and did play with incredible intensity on the defensive end and look to score as a second/third option from the exterior. This might well be impacting negatively on his game right now. In addition, with Ryan back with his new very effective mid range game together with his shooting 3s with remarkable accuracy, Rasheed is pretty far down the food chain on offense; among, the starters, last with considerable space between him and Cook, the guy immediately above him on the peeking order..

3. In these circumstances, Rasheed might be holding back on offense situationally on K's direction.

Yes, some good points, and it's a long, hard season, esp. for a freshman.

On the scoring balance, gotta love having 5 starters in double figures, with the range from 11.7 to 17.0 points/game
Balanced scoring plus 3 seniors plus Coach K seems like a pretty good basis for tournament success.

https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf9/1550486.pdf?ATCLID=206617660&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200

season stats thru 30 games

Tripping William
03-06-2013, 03:24 PM
1. Rasheed might be really, really tired, perhaps mentally more than physically.



Maybe, but I will say this. I was at the game last night although on the media side above the rail across from the VT bench. I still noticed something, though. TT started the second half ahead of Sheed, and Sheed hit the floor at the 14:42 mark with Green at the line. Green missed the second free throw and Sheed promptly failed to corral the rebound (letting it go out of bounds on the sideline). Curry then missed a 3-pointer and VaTech got out in transition. Green got a bucket and Sheed fouled him. K promptly subbed Cook back in for Sheed. Once Sheed sat down, K took a knee right in front of him, and had a (ahem) "teaching moment." I could not read lips, but I could read arm gestures & finger points. K was not at all pleased. Sheed sat for 9+ minutes, until the 3:36 mark when the game was out of reach. He seemed less tired at that point. :D

Kedsy
03-06-2013, 03:30 PM
On the scoring balance, gotta love having 5 starters in double figures, with the range from 11.7 to 17.0 points/game
Balanced scoring plus 3 seniors plus Coach K seems like a pretty good basis for tournament success.

I have mentioned in the past the Coach K Duke teams who have had 3 or more seniors getting 15+ minutes a game:

1986, 1989, 1990, 1994, 2006, 2010, and 2013. Nice list to be a part of. (Note that some would include 1995 here, but Coach K didn't coach that team, and if he did I suspect (a) the minute distribution would have been different; and (b) the team might have been more successful.)

Since you bring it up, Roy, the other day Mike Corey mentioned to me that three of Duke's four national championship teams had five guys averaging in double-figures. For those interested, here's the full list of Coach K Duke teams that have performed this feat:

1991, 1992, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2008, and 2013.

Also, in 1999 we had four guys in double figures plus a fifth who averaged 9.9 ppg (and a sixth who averaged 9.1), so maybe you count 1999 too. Any list with 1991, 1992, 1999, 2001, and 2004 on it is a good list in my book, though the inclusion of 2000 and especially 2008 waters down any pie-in-the-sky extrapolation I'd like to draw. Still, interesting precedent for this year's team, now that Ryan Kelly is back.

gep
03-06-2013, 10:48 PM
People tend to downplay the mental part of basketball. I think Kelly has crossed that barrier where he is now ready to be a pro. The college game has slowed down where it is pretty simple- he knows what he can do and he now a man playing against boys in the mental aspects of the game. Kelly always had skills but at times lacked the confidence to fully utilize them. As a freshman he deferred too much. He is now understanding his college career is nearly over and is playing the game with a new found openness and freedom. He simply looks like the smartest guy out there and is not expending excess energy to get things accomplished. Shane, Laettner, Hill, Smith, Redick, etc all did this in their senior years. In many ways, Green for Va Tech has reached this level. While Kelly will not get his jersey retired- he is a gifted player who got better every year.

This may be the key point. While Ryan was on the bench, he saw/watched everything happening. Then the video sessions. He did seem VERY comfortable on the court, and seemed to be in the right place at the right time. I look forward to a fun end of season.

hustleplays
03-06-2013, 11:56 PM
Oh, I know. I also think the college game was just a bit too fast for Ryan as well his freshman year. But the potential was there. At the time, I predicted a Tom Gugliotta type of progression for Ryan. He didn't quite get there, but to me it seems like a similar arc. The progress he's made has been wonderful to watch.

I have really appreciated the stream of observations [by Kedsy, BillyDat, DukeLifer, Jim Sumner, et al] on Ryan Kelly's game and progress. I recall seeing Ryan at the ProAm summer tournament, when he was a rising frosh. I saw what many saw: A very tall and skinny player, with an above average skill set and a special basketball IQ. His confidence level was hard to read. My sense is that it was reality-based: I have great awareness of the game, above average skills, but I'm not strong and I have a ton to learn. I'm not the greatest athlete, but I can play this game very well. Game on.

I happened to talk that day with Ryan's Mom. She spoke of Ryan's work ethic, and how pleased they were for Ryan to be at Duke, a perfect fit, a place where his high intelligence would be valued and used both on and off the court. I had a very good feeling about Ryan's future at Duke.

What struck me about Ryan's performance against Miami -- in addition to the obvious "one for the ages" productivity -- was how "quiet" it was. We often see major production that appears "quiet." In Ryan's case, his productivity could not at all remain quiet, given the attention focused on him, how he exceeded expectations after his 2nd shot, and given the circumstance and stakes. However, HOW he went about scoring 36 points [on 14 field goal attempts; along with 7 rebounds, an assist, block and 2 steals] was equally if not more remarkable, to me. Ryan seemed so sure and confident in what he did, what he was about to do next. After eight weeks of "inactivity." There were no "highlight" spectaculars, just very efficient, workmanlike proficiency. His shooting stroke was confident and pure. It reminded me of Larry Bird -- not overly athletic, but never ever looking, for a second, like I'm not sure what to do next. Playing just a split second ahead of everybody else. I'm not saying that Ryan is Larry, of course. Just that he may have the same kind of interior view of the game. [Bill Walton had the same, sure real-time awareness of what was happening and what to do next. Bill Russell also comes to mind. Have to say that Kyrie strikes me as having that same "zen" awareness, but I digress. :-) ]

Ryan's performance against VT was totally solid -- confirming that his Miami outing wasn't a fluke. I felt that our team was beginning to reconstitute its identity, with Ryan as a key leader.

A great contemporary pianist, Murray Perahia, had to undergo hand surgery, which kept him away from the piano for many months. While this was agonizing for him at the time, he used this forced inactivity to study Bach's piano works in great depth. He came back to play Bach's piano suites with greater awareness and sensitivity than before. Ryan is a very smart and dedicated basketball player and person. He seems to have used his forced layoff from the court to more deeply internalize the fundamental architecture of the game.

What I also sensed is the impact of Ryan's leadership on the team. He seems to understand our defensive schemes and classic post defense better than anyone else. I don't think that our senior leadership is especially strong, and Ryan's return bolsters our team leadership significantly, on both the offensive and defensive ends.

What good fortune to have one senior team member return to change, potentially, the entire trajectory for March and April. Thank you, Ryan!

And, thank you, trainers, who helped nurse Ryan back to health!

On to Carolina!

Troublemaker
03-07-2013, 12:06 AM
This was my first thought as well, until I remembered how Ryan was playing just before he was injured. In his three games in January, Ryan put up 18 and 7 against Davidson, then 22 and 4 (in just 18 minutes!) against Wake, and before he got hurt he scored 12 points with 6 boards in a half (a half in which Duke only scored 25 points total and Clemson had just 10). So in those last two games he had 34 points in 37 minutes played (not that far off from the 36 points in 32 minutes he pasted on Miami, in fact if you factor in that Duke only had 29 possessions in the first half against Clemson, his ppp was probably better in the Wake and Clemson games than it was against Miami). In the nine games after we got back from the Islands and before he got hurt, Ryan shot 21 for 31 from three-land (68%).

So maybe it's more accurate to say he picked up right where he left off. Which in and of itself is pretty remarkable.

Agree completely.

I would go so far as to say that Duke played for two months without its best all-around player, most valuable player, and best vocal captain. That's why Coach K was worried Duke might not make the tournament after Ryan went down.

Ryan was just coming into his own as a great college player when he got injured. If he had stayed healthy the entire season, he would've made one of the All-American teams, imo.

This is why Coach K always emphasizes developing his starters over developing his 8th or 9th man in the rotation. Cases like Ryan Kelly happen where a player can develop from a good starter at the beginning of the season to a great player toward the middle of the season (and now at the end of the season as well).