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Billy Dat
03-04-2013, 01:25 PM
With all the complaining about Gottlieb, I am surprised how many DBR posters like Shane Ryan.

The Hardcourt Shuffle: A White Raven Leads Duke Over Miami
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/52912/the-hardcourt-shuffle-a-white-raven-leads-duke-over-miami

"The Blue Devils were supposed to come out incensed and blow Miami off the floor. Instead, they needed a miracle game from Kelly to win by three. Despite the loss, I was impressed with the Hurricanes. They came into a hornet's nest, withstood a series of body blows from Kelly, got eggs from Durand Scott and Reggie Johnson, and still almost won. On a neutral floor, they would have won. This team is the real deal. Duke, on the other hand, will not get the same performance every game from Kelly. They will not have the Cameron Magic on their side in the tournament. The flaws will emerge again"

FerryFor50
03-04-2013, 01:31 PM
With all the complaining about Gottlieb, I am surprised how many DBR posters like Shane Ryan.

The Hardcourt Shuffle: A White Raven Leads Duke Over Miami
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/52912/the-hardcourt-shuffle-a-white-raven-leads-duke-over-miami

"The Blue Devils were supposed to come out incensed and blow Miami off the floor. Instead, they needed a miracle game from Kelly to win by three. Despite the loss, I was impressed with the Hurricanes. They came into a hornet's nest, withstood a series of body blows from Kelly, got eggs from Durand Scott and Reggie Johnson, and still almost won. On a neutral floor, they would have won. This team is the real deal. Duke, on the other hand, will not get the same performance every game from Kelly. They will not have the Cameron Magic on their side in the tournament. The flaws will emerge again"

Sigh. Criticisms like this are always one-sided.

For instance "got eggs from Durand Scott and Reggie Johnson and still almost won."

Well, Duke got eggs from Seth Curry and, arguably, Mason Plumlee and still won. Wash.

Miami was also the beneficiary of some friendly bounces at the end (such as the McKinney-Jones three and the Cook slide out of bounds) plus some uncharacteristic late game mistakes by Duke. Duke was up by 10 at one point and could have stayed there had they hit a normal FT %. Plus, Miami hit way above their FT% averages, so.... wash.

No one predicted Duke would "blow Miami off the floor." In fact, many people thought it would be close, possibly with Miami taking the game.

"On a neutral floor, they would have won" is always a cop out. At the end of the day, both baskets are round, the ball is the same size and the court is still 94'X50'. Plus, there really is no such thing as a "neutral floor." There is always a fan contingent that travels... I'd say that Duke basketball fans travel better than Miami basketball fans would.

Duvall
03-04-2013, 01:32 PM
With all the complaining about Gottlieb, I am surprised how many DBR posters like Shane Ryan.

The Hardcourt Shuffle: A White Raven Leads Duke Over Miami
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/52912/the-hardcourt-shuffle-a-white-raven-leads-duke-over-miami

"The Blue Devils were supposed to come out incensed and blow Miami off the floor. Instead, they needed a miracle game from Kelly to win by three. Despite the loss, I was impressed with the Hurricanes. They came into a hornet's nest, withstood a series of body blows from Kelly, got eggs from Durand Scott and Reggie Johnson, and still almost won. On a neutral floor, they would have won. This team is the real deal. Duke, on the other hand, will not get the same performance every game from Kelly. They will not have the Cameron Magic on their side in the tournament. The flaws will emerge again"

Not sure that a Shane Ryan column warrants a new thread. He doesn't understand basketball, and he isn't interesting. Was it "Cameron Magic" that caused Duke to go 16-26 from the free throw line Saturday, or Sulaimon and Curry to go 5-15 from the field?

Ichabod Drain
03-04-2013, 01:32 PM
With all the complaining about Gottlieb, I am surprised how many DBR posters like Shane Ryan.

The Hardcourt Shuffle: A White Raven Leads Duke Over Miami
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/52912/the-hardcourt-shuffle-a-white-raven-leads-duke-over-miami

"The Blue Devils were supposed to come out incensed and blow Miami off the floor. Instead, they needed a miracle game from Kelly to win by three. Despite the loss, I was impressed with the Hurricanes. They came into a hornet's nest, withstood a series of body blows from Kelly, got eggs from Durand Scott and Reggie Johnson, and still almost won. On a neutral floor, they would have won. This team is the real deal. Duke, on the other hand, will not get the same performance every game from Kelly. They will not have the Cameron Magic on their side in the tournament. The flaws will emerge again"

If he believe's Miami is the real deal then how does he expect anyone to blow them off the floor...

OldPhiKap
03-04-2013, 01:33 PM
With all the complaining about Gottlieb, I am surprised how many DBR posters like Shane Ryan.

The Hardcourt Shuffle: A White Raven Leads Duke Over Miami
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/52912/the-hardcourt-shuffle-a-white-raven-leads-duke-over-miami

"The Blue Devils were supposed to come out incensed and blow Miami off the floor. Instead, they needed a miracle game from Kelly to win by three. Despite the loss, I was impressed with the Hurricanes. They came into a hornet's nest, withstood a series of body blows from Kelly, got eggs from Durand Scott and Reggie Johnson, and still almost won. On a neutral floor, they would have won. This team is the real deal. Duke, on the other hand, will not get the same performance every game from Kelly. They will not have the Cameron Magic on their side in the tournament. The flaws will emerge again"

Miami has proven that it is the best team in conference play this year. They deserve credit for coming into an extremely fired-up cauldron, and coming within a whisker of beating us. And yes, it took an absurdly great performance by Ryan for us to pull that one out.

I think we will be better moving forward, and have no reason to doubt that Miami may improve as well. On a neutral court, I would not be surprised or insulted if we were a slight underdog.

Miami has two fifth-year seniors and sixth-year senior who turns 25 in a few months. Larkin is probably First Team All-ACC. Scott and Johnson are beasts.

But I like our chances anyway.

Billy Dat
03-04-2013, 01:35 PM
Not sure that a Shane Ryan column warrants a new thread. He doesn't understand basketball, and he isn't interesting.

Agree, I couldn't find a more suitable thread for it and I wanted to share my angst at his typically off points about the team and program.


If he believes Miami is the real deal then how does he expect anyone to blow them off the floor...

This is often a point made after a Duke loss or close win...Duke isn't that good but the other team must be great.

Billy Dat
03-04-2013, 01:36 PM
I think we will be better moving forward

This was precisely my feeling watching on Saturday...that, as Mason said post game, our ceiling had risen.

ncexnyc
03-04-2013, 01:38 PM
All the points he made have been discussed on this board. Are they a tad extreme? Maybe, but it got your attention and now others on here will click-on as well, which is what the blog game is all about.

sporthenry
03-04-2013, 01:38 PM
With all the complaining about Gottlieb, I am surprised how many DBR posters like Shane Ryan.

The Hardcourt Shuffle: A White Raven Leads Duke Over Miami
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/52912/the-hardcourt-shuffle-a-white-raven-leads-duke-over-miami

"The Blue Devils were supposed to come out incensed and blow Miami off the floor. Instead, they needed a miracle game from Kelly to win by three. Despite the loss, I was impressed with the Hurricanes. They came into a hornet's nest, withstood a series of body blows from Kelly, got eggs from Durand Scott and Reggie Johnson, and still almost won. On a neutral floor, they would have won. This team is the real deal. Duke, on the other hand, will not get the same performance every game from Kelly. They will not have the Cameron Magic on their side in the tournament. The flaws will emerge again"

I agree and appreciate you bringing him up. He has taken multiple shots at Duke including being one of the first national guys to talk about the grandma chant and he threw Duke under the bus before even knowing the whole story.

And I love this narrative coming out of the Duke game. Everyone talking about how Duke will be exposed b/c Kelly had an amazing game but they almost make it seem like Kelly is never going to play again. And they don't acknowledge that with him back, teams will have to adjust like they haven't had to for a month. Kelly might not break 20 again, but making a guy guard him, take away the double from Mason, open the lane for Duke's guards will be the things people don't notice.

And while Miami did well to keep it close, they won't continue to get to the rim that easily and that is really the only flaw Duke might have but seems correctable.

Never saw a team that lost almost get more credibility because they barely lost (even though it should have been a 10 point loss). And I'm not sure why Duke was expected to blow out a top 5 team? Sure they were at home but Kenpom has home court as I think a 4-5 point swing.

UrinalCake
03-04-2013, 01:40 PM
Pretty sure everyone here hates Shane Ryan. These sort of anti-Duke rants are commonplace. And wasn't he the guy who tweeted the whole "how's your grandma" fabrication? I'm all for objective reporting, and I'm fine that not everyone sees Duke in the same positive light that I do, but Ryan takes things to such an extreme, making up stories just to pander for page hits, that he turns himself into a joke. The only reason he's on staff at grantland is that Bill Simmons is also a Duke hater (though he can actually show some semblence of respect and professionalism about it, on rare occasion)

freshmanjs
03-04-2013, 01:43 PM
I'm not quite following how this is a "shot at duke" or "an anti-duke rant." He thinks Miami is better. You can make a good argument for that. He thinks Miami was more impressive on Saturday -- you can make a case for that too. Let him think Miami is better...I think he'll be proven wrong. Meantime, nothing he said is a slight against our program or an insult.

Billy Dat
03-04-2013, 01:45 PM
All the points he made have been discussed on this board. Are they a tad extreme? Maybe, but it got your attention and now others on here will click-on as well, which is what the blog game is all about.

Your statement has helped me clarify something that I felt but couldn't quite put my finger on....Shane Ryan reminds me of typical glass-is-half-empty, self-loathing-Duke-fan DBR poster who occasionally makes make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark.

Billy Dat
03-04-2013, 01:46 PM
I'm not quite following how this is a "shot at duke" or "an anti-duke rant." He thinks Miami is better. You can make a good argument for that. He thinks Miami was more impressive on Saturday -- you can make a case for that too. Let him think Miami is better...I think he'll be proven wrong. Meantime, nothing he said is a slight against our program or an insult.

"Mason Plumlee still stinks. At this point, he might be one of the worst interior defenders in Duke history. Over and over on Saturday, he tried to take awkward charges when defending the lane, or failed to provide adequate help when the guards got beat. There's nobody in America with worse instincts."

freshmanjs
03-04-2013, 01:47 PM
"Mason Plumlee still stinks. At this point, he might be one of the worst interior defenders in Duke history. Over and over on Saturday, he tried to take awkward charges when defending the lane, or failed to provide adequate help when the guards got beat. There's nobody in America with worse instincts."

ah well that is helpful. i hadn't seen that quote. thanks.

UrinalCake
03-04-2013, 01:48 PM
I'm not quite following how this is a "shot at duke" or "an anti-duke rant." He thinks Miami is better. You can make a good argument for that. He thinks Miami was more impressive on Saturday -- you can make a case for that too. Let him think Miami is better...I think he'll be proven wrong. Meantime, nothing he said is a slight against our program or an insult.

He basically said that Duke has peaked, that they only won this game because of luck and that Ryan won't do anything else for the rest of the year. He attributed poor performances by Miami's players to us being lucky, while he attributes poor performances by our guys to our guys being terrible. And he says that the optimism felt by Duke fans as well as other analysts is misguided.

I agree with many of the points that he made, including our team's weaknesses, but his tone and propensity for exaggeration and insult are pretty juvenile IMO

mr. synellinden
03-04-2013, 02:06 PM
He basically said that Duke has peaked, that they only won this game because of luck and that Ryan won't do anything else for the rest of the year. He attributed poor performances by Miami's players to us being lucky, while he attributes poor performances by our guys to our guys being terrible. And he says that the optimism felt by Duke fans as well as other analysts is misguided.

I agree with many of the points that he made, including our team's weaknesses, but his tone and propensity for exaggeration and insult are pretty juvenile IMO

For what it's worth, there was a lot of talk like this about Duke's supposed weaknesses around the same time in 2010.

Let's see how the next few games go. If Duke resumes playing like the pre-Kelly injury team that went 15-0 against the toughest schedule in the country, we'll go into the tournament as as much of a favorite to win it as anyone.

For a contrary perspective from ESPN - check out Myron Medcalf's column (http://espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/page/backtothebasket130304/back-basket-weekly-look-college-basketball):

Ryan Kelly's 36-point explosion in Saturday's win over Miami solidified Duke's slot as the No. 1 team in America in my mind. He's clearly a difference-maker for a team that maintained its elite status without him. But check the fine print on that effort: He went 10-for-14, while the rest of the starters hit a more modest 15-for-33.

This is obviously a dangerous team that can win its last two ACC games and the conference tournament. But the Blue Devils will have to adjust to playing together when Kelly's numbers reach a more reasonable level. How will the team respond when he's not in beast mode?

JayBean
03-04-2013, 02:14 PM
He basically said that Duke has peaked, that they only won this game because of luck and that Ryan won't do anything else for the rest of the year. He attributed poor performances by Miami's players to us being lucky, while he attributes poor performances by our guys to our guys being terrible. And he says that the optimism felt by Duke fans as well as other analysts is misguided.

I agree with many of the points that he made, including our team's weaknesses, but his tone and propensity for exaggeration and insult are pretty juvenile IMO

I truly hope that the rest of our opponents believe that we have peaked. I saw a lot of room for team growth, assuming Mr Kelly can keep playing at a high level. We just won a game that

a) was against a top 5 team
b) was less than 48 hours after a very physical loss
c) was after we had less than half a practice with a key contributor coming back.

Mr Ryan seems to ignore that last point especially. Yes, Kelly may not go off for 36 again, but the team should re-adjust to him being around. This will greatly improve our defense and offense. Not to mention cut down on mistakes.

Everyone complaining about Mason not playing a great game against Miami has to realize that he has been playing without Ryan for 2 months. So he's gotten some habits (avoiding fouls, pacing himself for the full 40 mins) that he has to unlearn. That is not going to happen in 1 game after half a practice. The rest of the team probably didn't even know how much Ryan could give them minutes-wise.

Sorry for the rant. I just think that no one should really be too negative following this remarkable win. Put another way, this is the third 'team' that we have had this year that needs to figure out how to work together. Very similar to the first iteration, but slightly different (emergence of Amile, maturation of Rasheed, etc). I hope we can give it time (practice time is very precious now).

OldPhiKap
03-04-2013, 02:21 PM
"Mason Plumlee still stinks. At this point, he might be one of the worst interior defenders in Duke history. Over and over on Saturday, he tried to take awkward charges when defending the lane, or failed to provide adequate help when the guards got beat. There's nobody in America with worse instincts."

See, that's what I get for responding to your reasonable post instead of reading the actual article.

That is just plain silly.

weezie
03-04-2013, 02:25 PM
"There's nobody in America with worse instincts."

Oh, I dunno...Shane Ryan comes to mind....

wilko
03-04-2013, 02:28 PM
I have a more optimistic view.
I tend to be the guy that drank the 1st part of the glass before everyone else noticed it had been touched...


What Kelly's performance DOES is eliminate any doubts about his health and conditioning. It'll FORCE opponents to honor that threat in the game plan to cover the 4. All the points about spacing are quite valid. Sheed, Cook, Curry and Thornton should find driving angles in a less congested lane.

What I'm more hopeful of is that this will energize an emotionally fatigued team. We've played a lotta games, most opponents try to "out-physical" us rather than play straight up. I'm sure its taken a toll on them.

As for Masons D - would you rather he foul out? One of the under-appreciated improvements in his game is staying on the court. I think there is a direct correlation to him taking LESS risks on D knowing - no one can fill in behind him. With Kelly back in the mix I think he will be able to challenge a bit more.

Dr. Rosenrosen
03-04-2013, 02:29 PM
I'm angry at myself for clicking the link...

dukelifer
03-04-2013, 02:54 PM
I for one never thought Duke would blow Miami off the floor. I thought Duke might play harder in Cameron and make it a game. But blow them off the floor? Without Kelly at full strength or playing at all? What team has Shane Ryan been watching? Miami is an excellent basketball team and Duke does not match up well with them. Yes- Kelly played incredibly well and may never play that well again- but Miami can play better or worse- particularly in a tourney. Larkin may run out of steam in the third game as he does the bulk of the ball handling. Duke won this game and may not win the next. It simply says these teams are evenly matched. Basketball is a funny sport. A player can have a game of a lifetime and make all the difference. Goose Givens had his against Duke in 1977- going off for 41. Without that, Duke wins the NC against KY. That is how it goes sometimes.

moonpie23
03-04-2013, 03:16 PM
mason has shown some softness on D here of late......there WERE times he tried to take a charge when one of the miami players nailed a floater or layup he could have contested.....only Mason and the coaching staff can tell if he's playing up to task and smart? or missing defensive coverage...

personally, at UVA, i would rather him go to the bench with 5 foul/blocks in that kind of a loss.......at least there wouldn't be any doubt he was protecting his area....



but......i don't make my living coaching Duke University Men's Basketball team......

Lauderdevil
03-04-2013, 03:29 PM
Basketball is a funny sport. A player can have a game of a lifetime and make all the difference. Goose Givens had his against Duke in 1977- going off for 41. Without that, Duke wins the NC against KY. That is how it goes sometimes.

Exactly. See, e.g., Joe Harris scoring 36 against us at Virginia. As a result, we lost. Not "we really won, once you normalize for Harris's typical scoring output."

wilko
03-04-2013, 03:48 PM
Personally, at UVA, I would rather him go to the bench with 5 foul/blocks in that kind of a loss... at least there wouldn't be any doubt he was protecting his area.

UVa was the kind of game where its better for everyone concerned if I stay away from a coaching environment.

If I were the Coach... 1 or 2 things would have happened.
TZ would still be picking teeth out of his elbow. I would have shown them what a foul REALLY looks like.

or

I would have made the call to send everybody to foul at about the 6 minute mark so we wouldn't have had enough players to finish with 5. I would have made a point about it one way or another....

OldPhiKap
03-04-2013, 04:18 PM
I would have made the call to send everybody to foul at about the 6 minute mark so we wouldn't have had enough players to finish with 5. I would have made a point about it one way or another....

You have to finish with four. Or less, if that's all you have.

Lauderdevil
03-04-2013, 04:31 PM
Pretty sure everyone here hates Shane Ryan.

Wait, you can't hate a guy with the name "Shane Ryan". Those are two of the great names in Duke b-ball history!

OldPhiKap
03-04-2013, 04:49 PM
Wait, you can't hate a guy with the name "Shane Ryan". Those are two of the great names in Duke b-ball history!

From now on, his pledge name shall be "Makhtar Sheehey"

slower
03-04-2013, 05:30 PM
Hate on Shane Ryan all you want, but just remember that HE is the first national media guy to use the name The White Raven. So, we DO owe him that.

And Simmons, interestingly, loves JJ and Kyle now that they're pros. And he is one of Kyrie's most ardent supporters, having said numerous times that he will be an all-timer, perhaps in the Magic Johnson category.

Grantland is, first and foremost, entertainment. As long as you understand what it is going in, it makes it easier to read. Or to ignore.

cptnflash
03-04-2013, 11:21 PM
For what it's worth, there was a lot of talk like this about Duke's supposed weaknesses around the same time in 2010.

Let's see how the next few games go. If Duke resumes playing like the pre-Kelly injury team that went 15-0 against the toughest schedule in the country, we'll go into the tournament as as much of a favorite to win it as anyone.

For a contrary perspective from ESPN - check out Myron Medcalf's column (http://espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/page/backtothebasket130304/back-basket-weekly-look-college-basketball):

Ryan Kelly's 36-point explosion in Saturday's win over Miami solidified Duke's slot as the No. 1 team in America in my mind. He's clearly a difference-maker for a team that maintained its elite status without him. But check the fine print on that effort: He went 10-for-14, while the rest of the starters hit a more modest 15-for-33.

This is obviously a dangerous team that can win its last two ACC games and the conference tournament. But the Blue Devils will have to adjust to playing together when Kelly's numbers reach a more reasonable level. How will the team respond when he's not in beast mode?

There was no such talk at this point in 2010. Going into the last week of the regular season, we were in 1st place in the conference, #1 in KenPom (despite much derision from the anti-data crowd), had won 8 games in a row, and were the only team in the country with a top 5 offense (#1, actually) and a top 5 defense.

And also, Myron Medcalf is clueless. This is the same guy who said confidently that we would win at NC State when Ryan first got injured because... well, I'm not exactly sure what his line of reasoning was, other than that Coach K is a great coach. As if that means we should never lose. Seriously, ignore everything Mr. Medcalf says about college basketball, and you'll be the wiser for it.

For the record guys (and gals), Shane Ryan is just as much a Duke basketball fan as any of you. Go back and read the blog post he wrote in the wake of our 2010 national championship. He is a passionate Duke fan, just like you and me. He is not anti-Duke in any way. He just has his eyes open. There were a LOT of red flags in the Miami game. Ryan Kelly is not Larry Bird, even though he played like him for one game. He is still hurt. Mason is still way too passive. Our perimeter defense is still terrible. Granted, all of these things can be fixed... but they also might not get fixed. Whether they actually get fixed or not is a matter of conjecture, and just because someone has a different (i.e., less optimistic) expectation doesn't mean they are biased, any more than you are.

Kedsy
03-04-2013, 11:55 PM
There was no such talk at this point in 2010. Going into the last week of the regular season, we were in 1st place in the conference, #1 in KenPom (despite much derision from the anti-data crowd), had won 8 games in a row, and were the only team in the country with a top 5 offense (#1, actually) and a top 5 defense.

Sorry, dude, but this is dead wrong. At this point in 2010, the talking heads were saying we didn't deserve a top seed and a vocal minority (if not majority) of Duke fans were predicting an early exit. Nobody with a microphone thought we had any chance of winning more than a game or two in the NCAAT and KenPom himself was publicly apologizing for his system overrating Duke.


For the record guys (and gals), Shane Ryan is just as much a Duke basketball fan as any of you.

That may be, but in my opinion Shane Ryan is the type of Duke fan I can't stand. He sold out his allegiance for the right to make clever but stupid comments about his alma mater. I've stopped reading his stuff because it never fails to p*ss me off. Plus, for a basketball writer he knows next to nothing about basketball. I didn't bother to click on his most recent post.

toooskies
03-05-2013, 12:05 AM
There was no such talk at this point in 2010. Going into the last week of the regular season, we were in 1st place in the conference, #1 in KenPom (despite much derision from the anti-data crowd), had won 8 games in a row, and were the only team in the country with a top 5 offense (#1, actually) and a top 5 defense.

The Duke meme of '10 was "Duke can't win on the road." And then we lost at Maryland, further solidifying that argument. Plenty foresaw an early exit for us. Different, but still plenty negative.

Des Esseintes
03-05-2013, 12:06 AM
For the record guys (and gals), Shane Ryan is just as much a Duke basketball fan as any of you. Go back and read the blog post he wrote in the wake of our 2010 national championship. He is a passionate Duke fan, just like you and me. He is not anti-Duke in any way. He just has his eyes open. There were a LOT of red flags in the Miami game. Ryan Kelly is not Larry Bird, even though he played like him for one game. He is still hurt. Mason is still way too passive. Our perimeter defense is still terrible. Granted, all of these things can be fixed... but they also might not get fixed. Whether they actually get fixed or not is a matter of conjecture, and just because someone has a different (i.e., less optimistic) expectation doesn't mean they are biased, any more than you are.

"For the record guys (and gals), [Dr. Edward Teller] is just as much [a friend of humanity] as any of you. Go back and [watch footage of his amazing inventions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_oueK1OQYA) that helped keep us warm and inspired throughout the Cold War]. He is a passionate [Objectivist], just like you and me. He is not anti-[life on this planet] in any way. He just has his eyes open. There were a LOT of [Russians trying to steal our precious bodily fluids, after all]. [Like far too many people with advanced degrees, Robert Oppenheimer was] not [a patriot], even though he [was perhaps one of the most decent men of the past century]. He [was] still [a Communist]. [American military power] is still way too passive. Our perimeter [shields are] still [inoperative]. Granted, all of these things can be fixed... but they also might not get fixed. Whether they actually get fixed or not is a matter of conjecture, and just because someone has a different (i.e., less optimistic) expectation doesn't mean they are [a bloodless psychopath bent on building a weapon capable of destroying the sun], any more than you are."

Frobisher
03-05-2013, 12:25 AM
"For the record guys (and gals), [Dr. Edward Teller] is just as much [a friend of humanity] as any of you. Go back and [watch footage of his amazing inventions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_oueK1OQYA) that helped keep us warm and inspired throughout the Cold War]. He is a passionate [Objectivist], just like you and me. He is not anti-[life on this planet] in any way. He just has his eyes open. There were a LOT of [Russians trying to steal our precious bodily fluids, after all]. [Like far too many people with advanced degrees, Robert Oppenheimer was] not [a patriot], even though he [was perhaps one of the most decent men of the past century]. He [was] still [a Communist]. [American military power] is still way too passive. Our perimeter [shields are] still [inoperative]. Granted, all of these things can be fixed... but they also might not get fixed. Whether they actually get fixed or not is a matter of conjecture, and just because someone has a different (i.e., less optimistic) expectation doesn't mean they are [a bloodless psychopath bent on building a weapon capable of destroying the sun], any more than you are."

Let this be a Harlem Shake inspired mad libs thread henceforth.

tele
03-05-2013, 02:41 AM
Let this be a Harlem Shake inspired mad libs thread henceforth.

alright, someone drop the beat, let's get this thing going...

Henderson
03-05-2013, 02:58 AM
Who is Shane Ryan? Never heard of him. Sounds like the pen name of a pulp western novelist. Me no clicky linky.

licc85
03-05-2013, 03:30 AM
I used to read Shane Ryan's blog, Tobacco Road Blues, and before that, when it was called Seth Curry Saves Duke. As several people have stated, Shane is indeed a Duke fan, and I think he's just being cautiously pessimistic. Especially as a member of the media, he has to be careful not to labeled a homer (something that Jay Williams gets away with, but Jay Williams is the man, and he is awesome, so nobody minds). I think he probably has just as much hope for a title run as the rest of us, but may be overcompensating with these pessimistic comments. I mean, if you go back and look at Duke alums in the media other than J-Will, you'll never find someone who is bursting with optimism for Duke, even when we are really really good, like in 2001 and 2002. Bilas and Seth Davis are almost ALWAYS lower on Duke the rest of the media. Give Shane a break, he's one of us, he just works in the insane world of sports media. No fan wants to jinx their own team after all.

NashvilleDevil
03-05-2013, 06:20 AM
There was no such talk at this point in 2010. Going into the last week of the regular season, we were in 1st place in the conference, #1 in KenPom (despite much derision from the anti-data crowd), had won 8 games in a row, and were the only team in the country with a top 5 offense (#1, actually) and a top 5 defense.

And also, Myron Medcalf is clueless. This is the same guy who said confidently that we would win at NC State when Ryan first got injured because... well, I'm not exactly sure what his line of reasoning was, other than that Coach K is a great coach. As if that means we should never lose. Seriously, ignore everything Mr. Medcalf says about college basketball, and you'll be the wiser for it.

For the record guys (and gals), Shane Ryan is just as much a Duke basketball fan as any of you. Go back and read the blog post he wrote in the wake of our 2010 national championship. He is a passionate Duke fan, just like you and me. He is not anti-Duke in any way. He just has his eyes open. There were a LOT of red flags in the Miami game. Ryan Kelly is not Larry Bird, even though he played like him for one game. He is still hurt. Mason is still way too passive. Our perimeter defense is still terrible. Granted, all of these things can be fixed... but they also might not get fixed. Whether they actually get fixed or not is a matter of conjecture, and just because someone has a different (i.e., less optimistic) expectation doesn't mean they are biased, any more than you are.

Shane?

OldPhiKap
03-05-2013, 06:32 AM
The Duke meme of '10 was "Duke can't win on the road." And then we lost at Maryland, further solidifying that argument. Plenty foresaw an early exit for us. Different, but still plenty negative.

Don't forget that Jon was in a wicked bad funk too. Had to hit a miracle fade against GT just to breathe life back into his game. We were, as always, too reliant on the three to make it all the way . . . .

davekay1971
03-05-2013, 06:41 AM
Don't forget that Jon was in a wicked bad funk too. Had to hit a miracle fade against GT just to breathe life back into his game. We were, as always, too reliant on the three to make it all the way . . . .

And our bench wasn't developed enough. K only played 7 guys, so in was inevitable that we were going to get bounced by a deeper team that ran us off the court.

OldPhiKap
03-05-2013, 06:45 AM
And our bench wasn't developed enough. K only played 7 guys, so in was inevitable that we were going to get bounced by a deeper team that ran us off the court.

True. We were the softest #1 seed ever, should have been a two behind [random Big East team].



And, if we are fortunate enough to get a top seed this year,vwe will hear the same argument from some. Comes with the territory.

Lid
03-05-2013, 06:54 AM
Go back and read the blog post he wrote in the wake of our 2010 national championship.

I'm with you on this. No matter what he writes now, this is the piece I can't shake, and which describes my feelings as a Duke fan perfectly. He's earned a lot of passes from me because of it.

jcastranio
03-05-2013, 06:59 AM
Any basketball team will have games where some players "show up" and some don't. Some players match up poorly against some teams and some match up well. Seth Rasheed, and Quinn don't seem to "match-up" well against Miami this year, at least offensively. Two games worth of results would indicate that. Miami had success in the first half driving into the lane for the pass or the floater. They seemed to make every floater. We were looking to take away the three (and we did). We were looking to take away the pass off the drive for a layup or dunk (and we generally did). We were looking to make them take the more difficult shot on the move or to pick up the charge. They seemed to make all the shots and we couldn't get there in time on the charge. We actually seemed to fix that in the second half.

With less than 2:00 to go in the second half, Miami only had 29 points in the half. Only 11 points in the last 2 minutes on three unlikely threes got them to 76. That is impressive on their part, but those were "desperation" three-pointers. They just went in (bounced in, in one case). We missed some free throws. I think we were so relieved at the ten point lead and taking control of the game, that we just let up. It is an excusable error, not necessarily a team trend or characteristic.

Reggie Johnson has done very well against us. How did he do? Nothing. Not a bad game by Reggie, but a good game defensively by Mason.

We didn't just win because Ryan had a great game. We took what Miami gave us. If they played Ryan tighter, then someone else would have been open. It's a long season and a team game. We beat Miami because we are a better team. Believe. (Cue theme song from "The Polar Express, get Tom Hanks in here).

Dev11
03-05-2013, 07:35 AM
Hate on Shane Ryan all you want, but just remember that HE is the first national media guy to use the name The White Raven. So, we DO owe him that..

Well he invented the name, so there's that.

slower
03-05-2013, 07:53 AM
I'm with you on this. No matter what he writes now, this is the piece I can't shake, and which describes my feelings as a Duke fan perfectly. He's earned a lot of passes from me because of it.

Shane Ryan gets a lifetime pass for two things:

1.The invention of The White Raven

http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2011/01/hot-potato-and-passage-of-time.html

2. This

http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2010/04/morning-champs.html

David
03-05-2013, 10:08 AM
I don't have a problem with Shane Ryan's negativity. Whether you agree or disagree with him, the great part is that this is not a theoretical discussion. With Ryan Kelly back in the lineup, we get a chance to see all of this play out over the next few weeks. Will Duke have a strong senior night vs Va Tech? Will Duke beat UNC at the Whine & Cheeser? Will Duke win the ACC Tourney? Will Duke have a long run in the NCAA tourney? Will Mason Plumlee consistently bring it? Etc.

If Duke/Plumlee finish strong, it will be fun to link to Shane Ryan's article. If Duke/Plumlee don't finish strong, I am willing to admit Ryan was correct and start thinking about next season.

David
03-11-2013, 01:43 PM
Wow! Shane Ryan certainly changed his tune:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/53632/the-hardcourt-shuffle-seth-currys-wonder-half-floridas-latest-collapse

killerleft
03-11-2013, 03:52 PM
Wow! Shane Ryan certainly changed his tune:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/53632/the-hardcourt-shuffle-seth-currys-wonder-half-floridas-latest-collapse

He's like one of those little yappy dogs; one minute he's hopping and grinning, the next he's biting your ankle bone.

Mudge
03-11-2013, 04:22 PM
It's kind of funny-- Ryan says that Coach K "still managed to be kind of snippy with the press, somehow"... and then points out how Coach K was patient, non-cliched, quote-worthy, and even funny, all at the same time, with one of the reporters...but when it comes to Boeheim, who regularly loses it with reporters and treats them like mud on his shoe, Ryan says that if that's the way he's going to be "maybe it is time for him to retire"... maybe?... somehow?

How Coach K draws this kind of journalist disdain, and Boeheim doesn't get universally derided/reviled (especially after his ill-conceived defense of Assistant Coach Bernie's child molestation transgressions) by journalists, I'll never know. Add Calhoun's treatment into that equation too-- Coach K looks like Mother Teresa, compared to these two guys... and to be honest, you could probably add John Thompson (the elder) in there too, among the people who get/got a free pass for bad public behavior, while Coach K gets "the hairdryer treatment" (as they say over in the Britain), for virtually nothing. And this list could go on and on (Clem Haskins, Calipari, Bob Huggins, John Cheney, etc.)

Turk
03-11-2013, 08:15 PM
He's like one of those little yappy dogs; one minute he's hopping and grinning, the next he's biting your ankle bone.

I think Shane is like a lot of Duke fans - when he's down, he's really really down, and after a game like Saturday when it all comes together, he thinks there's no one who can beat Duke. Hate to admit it, but I might have had that once or twice over the years...

Must have been fun to be in the Dean Dome watching that first half. And since I'm confessing mode (must be a Lent thing), I also have to admit I giggled when his friend called it "basketball porn". I can see why Shane got all excited writing his blog post for this morning...

cptnflash
03-11-2013, 08:35 PM
I think Shane is like a lot of Duke fans - when he's down, he's really really down, and after a game like Saturday when it all comes together, he thinks there's no one who can beat Duke. Hate to admit it, but I might have had that once or twice over the years...

Must have been fun to be in the Dean Dome watching that first half. And since I'm confessing mode (must be a Lent thing), I also have to admit I giggled when his friend called it "basketball porn". I can see why Shane got all excited writing his blog post for this morning...

Shane is exactly like a lot Duke fans, in that he's exactly like most humans. He hedges his emotional investments by overestimating the probability of adverse outcomes, and he is heavily influenced by recency bias. In his "Hardcourt Shuffle" article from Friday, he offered these predictions prior to the Duke/UNC (I'm paraphrasing, the link is below if you want to reread it).

1 - The game will hinge on Ryan Kelly (it didn't).
2 - Dexter Strickland and Reggie Bullock will shut Seth Curry down (he even used the word unavoidable to describe this outcome... uh, yeah)
3 - Mason Plumlee can only be expected to disappoint in big games (um....)
4 - PJ Hairston is the kind of player that Duke can't handle (PJ had a decent game, but 4 for 12 from the field hardly suggests that we couldn't handle him)
5 - UNC is a hot team with the tools to exploit Duke's weaknesses, and will win the game by 6 (hey, he was only off by 22... pretty close!)

I don't mean to pick on Shane, especially after defending him earlier in this thread (and earning yet another helping of DBR derision in the process). My point is that he is a good writer who knows absolutely nothing about what's going to happen in any given Duke basketball game in the future. That makes him different from most of the media, in that he's a good writer.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/53507/the-hardcourt-shuffle-the-weekends-top-10-games-2

Des Esseintes
03-12-2013, 05:05 PM
Shane is exactly like a lot Duke fans, in that he's exactly like most humans. He hedges his emotional investments by overestimating the probability of adverse outcomes, and he is heavily influenced by recency bias. In his "Hardcourt Shuffle" article from Friday, he offered these predictions prior to the Duke/UNC (I'm paraphrasing, the link is below if you want to reread it).

1 - The game will hinge on Ryan Kelly (it didn't).
2 - Dexter Strickland and Reggie Bullock will shut Seth Curry down (he even used the word unavoidable to describe this outcome... uh, yeah)
3 - Mason Plumlee can only be expected to disappoint in big games (um....)
4 - PJ Hairston is the kind of player that Duke can't handle (PJ had a decent game, but 4 for 12 from the field hardly suggests that we couldn't handle him)
5 - UNC is a hot team with the tools to exploit Duke's weaknesses, and will win the game by 6 (hey, he was only off by 22... pretty close!)

I don't mean to pick on Shane, especially after defending him earlier in this thread (and earning yet another helping of DBR derision in the process). My point is that he is a good writer who knows absolutely nothing about what's going to happen in any given Duke basketball game in the future. That makes him different from most of the media, in that he's a good writer.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/53507/the-hardcourt-shuffle-the-weekends-top-10-games-2

I don't know. I think there are many good writers out there who have something better than a cretin's understanding of basketball. Al Featherston is a gifted writer who COMPLETELY called the excellence of this year's team in the preseason. (Various posters on this board felt similarly.) Jim Sumner writes strong game recaps. Nationally, Luke Winn is always interesting and rarely makes unconsidered, emotional predictions. At the NBA level, you have Zach Lowe, Kelly Dwyer, Mark Deeks and a legion of others, who can all write a clever sentence that also happens to be true. Knowledge and entertainment do not have to be mutually exclusive. Just because Ryan lacks historical perspective, game insight, and--most importantly--the curiosity to fix either shortcoming does not mean the affliction is universal.

The guy's a twit. Maybe he once pulled you from a burning building, or maybe he's engaged to your sister, and you have to be nice. The rest of us are not similarly bound, and to us he remains a twit.

Greg_Newton
03-12-2013, 05:13 PM
The guy's a twit. Maybe he once pulled you from a burning building, or maybe he's engaged to your sister, and you have to be nice. The rest of us are not similarly bound, and to us he remains a twit.

Agreed. I thought he was funny on his SCSD blog, but that's all he really is - a humor writer. His basketball knowledge is very limited. There are a laundry list of his past "articles" about Duke alone I could drum up to prove this point, if he were worth the effort.

MartyClark
03-12-2013, 06:09 PM
Agreed. I thought he was funny on his SCSD blog, but that's all he really is - a humor writer. His basketball knowledge is very limited. There are a laundry list of his past "articles" about Duke alone I could drum up to prove this point, if he were worth the effort.

I have read all of two articles by the guy. Last year's article about the Duke win in Chapel Hill was hugely entertaining. I thought the recent article about this year's win was fun and entertaining. I guess I'm in the minority here. I can recall also being in the minority when Malcom Gladwell was being discussed. I thought his series of essays in "What The Dog Saw" was great. I don't think I'm all that easily entertained but I admire a writer who can capture and keep my attention.

cptnflash
03-12-2013, 06:25 PM
The guy's a twit. Maybe he once pulled you from a burning building, or maybe he's engaged to your sister, and you have to be nice. The rest of us are not similarly bound, and to us he remains a twit.

I thought we weren't into name calling on DBR. Or do we make exceptions for people who say things we don't agree with?

Greg_Newton
03-12-2013, 06:38 PM
I agree that he can be entertaining as a humor writer. I just don't think he merits being taken seriously whatsoever.

Just off the top of my head - he picked UNC to win the conference preseason for moronic reasons, wrote several articles about how horrible "Plumble[censored]" was, how he was lucky to have "actually held his own" with Nerlens Noel, hadn't improved during his career, etc., he posted and tweeted the "Tyler Lewis Grandma Chant" video - which was, of course, NOT that - which nonetheless went viral and really damaged Duke's image, largely thanks to him, he wrote that Coach K talks like a child molester... etc. Some of it's funny, some not, but I can't think of a single worthwhile basketball observation he's made.

-jk
03-12-2013, 07:10 PM
I thought we weren't into name calling on DBR. Or do we make exceptions for people who say things we don't agree with?

We don't call each other names.

Incivility. You are free to disagree with other posters; all we ask that you respectfully disagree. Challenge the content of the post: point out flaws in their logic, dispute facts, or counter the argument respectfully. Attacking the poster by being snarky, name-calling, or engaging in a flame war is not tolerated. Avoid "gotcha" posts.

Within reason, it's open season on the press. (None of us get paid for this. They do.)

-jk

MartyClark
03-12-2013, 07:39 PM
I agree that he can be entertaining as a humor writer. I just don't think he merits being taken seriously whatsoever.

Just off the top of my head - he picked UNC to win the conference preseason for moronic reasons, wrote several articles about how horrible "Plumble[censored]" was, how he was lucky to have "actually held his own" with Nerlens Noel, hadn't improved during his career, etc., he posted and tweeted the "Tyler Lewis Grandma Chant" video - which was, of course, NOT that - which nonetheless went viral and really damaged Duke's image, largely thanks to him, he wrote that Coach K talks like a child molester... etc. Some of it's funny, some not, but I can't think of a single worthwhile basketball observation he's made.

Not having read any of that, I can't disagree with yoru conclusions. I think the guy has talent. Maybe he hasn't shown sufficient responsibility with that talent.

CDu
03-12-2013, 08:34 PM
Not having read any of that, I can't disagree with yoru conclusions. I think the guy has talent. Maybe he hasn't shown sufficient responsibility with that talent.

The guy is a talented writer of humor. He has, however, no basketball knowledge. He just writes from the perspective of a fan. He certainly has written some entertaining stuff. And if you ignore his actual basketball discussion, he can be a fun read. If you look for any insight on basketball, you're barking up the wrong tree with him.

cptnflash
03-12-2013, 10:03 PM
The guy is a talented writer of humor. He has, however, no basketball knowledge. He just writes from the perspective of a fan. He certainly has written some entertaining stuff. And if you ignore his actual basketball discussion, he can be a fun read. If you look for any insight on basketball, you're barking up the wrong tree with him.

This was exactly my point. Somehow my rendition of the same sentiment resulted in Shane being called a twit, not once, but twice. The vagaries of DBR continue to puzzle me.

David
03-12-2013, 10:51 PM
The guy is a talented writer of humor. He has, however, no basketball knowledge. He just writes from the perspective of a fan. He certainly has written some entertaining stuff. And if you ignore his actual basketball discussion, he can be a fun read. If you look for any insight on basketball, you're barking up the wrong tree with him.

I agree with CDu's point. Ryan's style (which I happen to like) is about humor and entertainment from a Duke fan perspective. He is far from a basketball expert, but I like that he was able to convey the feeling of watching the Duke win over UNC in the Dean Dome.

Indeed, Grantland founder Bill Simmons has this same style. Simmons is funny but rarely offers any great sports insights. The big takeaway (The Secret) from his 700pp basketball book is that great teams consist of great teammates. Really??? Simmons tells an entertaining story in his book about how Isiah Thomas revealed The Secret to him at a topless pool in Las Vegas. Fun story but not much of a secret.

Des Esseintes
03-12-2013, 11:12 PM
And also, Myron Medcalf is clueless. This is the same guy who said confidently that we would win at NC State when Ryan first got injured because... well, I'm not exactly sure what his line of reasoning was, other than that Coach K is a great coach. As if that means we should never lose. Seriously, ignore everything Mr. Medcalf says about college basketball, and you'll be the wiser for it.

For the record guys (and gals), Shane Ryan is just as much a Duke basketball fan as any of you. Go back and read the blog post he wrote in the wake of our 2010 national championship. He is a passionate Duke fan, just like you and me. He is not anti-Duke in any way. He just has his eyes open. There were a LOT of red flags in the Miami game. Ryan Kelly is not Larry Bird, even though he played like him for one game. He is still hurt. Mason is still way too passive. Our perimeter defense is still terrible. Granted, all of these things can be fixed... but they also might not get fixed. Whether they actually get fixed or not is a matter of conjecture, and just because someone has a different (i.e., less optimistic) expectation doesn't mean they are biased, any more than you are.


Shane is exactly like a lot Duke fans, in that he's exactly like most humans. He hedges his emotional investments by overestimating the probability of adverse outcomes, and he is heavily influenced by recency bias. In his "Hardcourt Shuffle" article from Friday, he offered these predictions prior to the Duke/UNC (I'm paraphrasing, the link is below if you want to reread it).

1 - The game will hinge on Ryan Kelly (it didn't).
2 - Dexter Strickland and Reggie Bullock will shut Seth Curry down (he even used the word unavoidable to describe this outcome... uh, yeah)
3 - Mason Plumlee can only be expected to disappoint in big games (um....)
4 - PJ Hairston is the kind of player that Duke can't handle (PJ had a decent game, but 4 for 12 from the field hardly suggests that we couldn't handle him)
5 - UNC is a hot team with the tools to exploit Duke's weaknesses, and will win the game by 6 (hey, he was only off by 22... pretty close!)

I don't mean to pick on Shane, especially after defending him earlier in this thread (and earning yet another helping of DBR derision in the process). My point is that he is a good writer who knows absolutely nothing about what's going to happen in any given Duke basketball game in the future. That makes him different from most of the media, in that he's a good writer.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/53507/the-hardcourt-shuffle-the-weekends-top-10-games-2


This was exactly my point. Somehow my rendition of the same sentiment resulted in Shane being called a twit, not once, but twice. The vagaries of DBR continue to puzzle me.

1. Look, man. You said yourself upthread that the dude "just has his eyes open." It's pretty obvious that the silent addendum to that statement is that not everyone has their eyes open, that some of the rest of us are blinkered by hyperactive optimism. Two games later, Ryan's predicting a national title, and you're saying FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY. So I'm having some trouble divining what is "exactly [your] point."

2. Consider the "twit" comment rescinded. Please amend my statement to read as follows: "The guy's clueless. Maybe he turned in a killer sack race time to help your scrappy summer camp team beat the rich kids from across the lake, or maybe you know Shane Ryan is afflicted by Imminent Death Syndrome (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDaFMZfIsV4), and you have to be nice. The rest of us are not similarly bound, and to us he remains a cypher whom we would all be wiser simply to ignore going forward."

cptnflash
03-12-2013, 11:57 PM
1. Look, man. You said yourself upthread that the dude "just has his eyes open." It's pretty obvious that the silent addendum to that statement is that not everyone has their eyes open, that some of the rest of us are blinkered by hyperactive optimism. Two games later, Ryan's predicting a national title, and you're saying FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY. So I'm having some trouble divining what is "exactly [your] point."

2. Consider the "twit" comment rescinded. Please amend my statement to read as follows: "The guy's clueless. Maybe he turned in a killer sack race time to help your scrappy summer camp team beat the rich kids from across the lake, or maybe you know Shane Ryan is afflicted by Imminent Death Syndrome (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDaFMZfIsV4), and you have to be nice. The rest of us are not similarly bound, and to us he remains a cypher whom we would all be wiser simply to ignore going forward."

First, thanks for all of the quotations (including the extra step of bolding some of the parts). No one has ever gone to such lengths before. Frankly, I have often considered abandoning DBR because it seems like no one pays attention to anything I post, so it's nice to see that my input is at least making some kind of impact.

Second, for the record, the two Shane Ryan articles in question were actually only one game apart, sandwiched around the Virginia Tech game. I said before it happened that the VT game was meaningless and should be ignored. Unfortunately, as usual, people (including Shane) ignored my post, rather than the game outcome. The lengthy passage you quoted, in which I dissected Shane's poor prognosticating of the UNC game, was referencing his Grantland article from Friday, March 8th. In fact, the link is still there in your quote. So good job quoting it, but maybe next time, try reading it too.

Otherwise, some general thoughts:

Yes, many people on this board are "blinkered by hyperactive optimism" (since you said "us", I'll assume you're one of them, although obviously I'm in no position to judge).

But even more than that, many people on this board overreact to the most recent data point (win, loss, or otherwise). This is called recency bias. It's a human trait that will not change for so long as this board is in existence. I try to lean against it sometimes with my commentary, but frankly that often earns me a helping of derision and just seems pointless.

Since you're having trouble understanding my point about Ryan, I'll try to spell it out as clearly and concisely as possible:
1) He's as much of a Duke fan as anyone on this board.
2) Much like most of the people on this board, he knows basically nothing about what will happen in the future.

Finally... I don't know Shane Ryan from a hole in the wall, and just like you (and apparently "the rest of us", since you chose to speak for everyone), I'm not bound by anything.

killerleft
03-13-2013, 09:45 AM
There is a test. If Shane Ryan is really a twit, he should probably have mannerisms and look something like these chaps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyr1ugzxXM

I'm pretty sure the one in the tweed jacket is a relative of his.

Billy Dat
03-13-2013, 10:05 AM
As the guy who started this thread, it has been interesting to read the debate and has changed my thinking on Shane Ryan.

First off, I like some of the other stuff he's done on Grantland, especially the daily preview he did everyday during the Summer Olympics which I used to figure out what to watch. Secondly, he's managed to get hired at Grantland which, whatever you think about it, boasts a really impressive roster young writing talent. He's earned his place.

As a reader, I wanted him to express a more narrow emotional range and to strike a more balanced long term view - e.g., maybe Mason just had a bad game rather then "Mason stinks". But, I think this debate has shown me that he writes more from the fan perspective - which is closer to the wild swings of joy and pain we see expressed on these boards from game to game. Considering him from that perspective makes reading him a less angst-filled experience for me.

Kedsy
03-13-2013, 11:13 AM
Since you're having trouble understanding my point about Ryan, I'll try to spell it out as clearly and concisely as possible:
1) He's as much of a Duke fan as anyone on this board.
2) Much like most of the people on this board, he knows basically nothing about what will happen in the future.

I agree that Shane Ryan, like most people everywhere (not just on this board), knows "basically nothing about what will happen in the future." The point others here appear to be trying to make is Shane Ryan also knows next to nothing about what happened in the past. Or at least that's the way he writes. I agree he's kind of funny, but his basketball observations are almost always either overly simplistic or just dead wrong. He tends to stick to his narrative long after it has proven false. He consistently sacrifices accuracy for cheap laughs, which is fine for a humor writer but not so fine for a supposed basketball writer.

airowe
03-13-2013, 02:00 PM
Shane Ryan gets a lifetime pass for two things:

1.The invention of The White Raven

http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2011/01/hot-potato-and-passage-of-time.html

2. This

http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2010/04/morning-champs.html

For the record, I like Shane as a person, not a huge fan of his writing.

While the two pieces above are examples of his talent (and he's written many other good pieces) this one has always left a bad taste in my mouth: http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2009/04/yo-yo-yo-coach-k-in-da-house-yall.html

As someone who occasionally writes down my thoughts for others to see, what's struck me with Shane's writing more than anything is the fact that it resonates with people for so long. For better or worse, he's got that writing talent down pat.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-13-2013, 02:18 PM
Wow, there's a LOT of thin skins and hostility on the boards this week. I'm going to chalk it up to getting antsy before the tournaments, but man, I hope we can regain some manners here.

There's not even a ACC tourney or first round games thread here yet, but there's plenty of yapping about LeBron, #1 seeds, and Duke hate in the media.

Shane Ryan is very upfront about exactly what he is. I agree with those on this thread who say that he's just like this board - he overreacts in both directions. We're going all the way, we will be lucky to get out of the first round.

Go Duke! Let's talk basketball!

CDu
03-13-2013, 02:20 PM
For the record, I like Shane as a person, not a huge fan of his writing.

While the two pieces above are examples of his talent (and he's written many other good pieces) this one has always left a bad taste in my mouth: http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2009/04/yo-yo-yo-coach-k-in-da-house-yall.html

As someone who occasionally writes down my thoughts for others to see, what's struck me with Shane's writing more than anything is the fact that it resonates with people for so long. For better or worse, he's got that writing talent down pat.

Wow, a pedophile and rat reference attached to Coach K in the same paragraph? And then a gay reference and a racism reference to boot? Classy, Shane. Classy.

I hadn't read this blogpost before, but I've read some of his other stuff. He typically just comes across as a fan of his guys (read: Curry) and a hater of his dislikes (Rivers, the Plumlees). And he clearly knows very little about basketball - that much is evident in all of his posts (including this one, where he seems to think that a fast break offense is the only way one can play offense with any freedom).

But this post is just extraordinarily offensive. And it's disappointing that it comes from a Duke student. It should be worth noting that this post came before the 2010 championship and the successful recruitment of Irving, Rivers, and Parker. So at that time, the "Coach K might have lost his touch just like Coach Knight did" argument was more en vogue among overreacting fans (of which Shane clearly is a member).

CDu
03-13-2013, 03:02 PM
Wow, a pedophile and rat reference attached to Coach K in the same paragraph? And then a gay reference and a racism reference to boot? Classy, Shane. Classy.

I hadn't read this blogpost before, but I've read some of his other stuff. He typically just comes across as a fan of his guys (read: Curry) and a hater of his dislikes (Rivers, the Plumlees). And he clearly knows very little about basketball - that much is evident in all of his posts (including this one, where he seems to think that a fast break offense is the only way one can play offense with any freedom).

But this post is just extraordinarily offensive. And it's disappointing that it comes from a Duke student. It should be worth noting that this post came before the 2010 championship and the successful recruitment of Irving, Rivers, and Parker. So at that time, the "Coach K might have lost his touch just like Coach Knight did" argument was more en vogue among overreacting fans (of which Shane clearly is a member).

All that said, I do agree with Ryan's general sentiment that the "How we Hoop" video was a pretty lame attempt at hipness. I think the more recent Duke Blue Planet stuff has been much better though. It's just he took that reasonable argument and peppered it with some really offensive commentary.

Greg_Newton
03-17-2013, 04:09 PM
Idiot:


If Duke gets a 1 over Miami, we're judging on November games. Not saying it's right or wrong, but Miami has been stronger for 3 months

Shane Ryan (@ShaneRyanHere) March 17, 2013

uh_no
03-17-2013, 04:16 PM
Idiot:

why is he an idiot? he's right....miami has been stronger since the start of the conference season....now whether we'd equal them with kelly, who knows....

if we get a 1 seed, much of it will be based by our great OOC run....obviously HE doesn't think that it should be a good criteria, and yes, I think he's a bit silly to simply discard that....but what he says is certainly true

(and yeah, he's an idiot....just not because of what he said there)

Des Esseintes
03-17-2013, 04:36 PM
why is he an idiot? he's right....miami has been stronger since the start of the conference season....now whether we'd equal them with kelly, who knows....

if we get a 1 seed, much of it will be based by our great OOC run....obviously HE doesn't think that it should be a good criteria, and yes, I think he's a bit silly to simply discard that....but what he says is certainly true

(and yeah, he's an idiot....just not because of what he said there)

Since the end of November, Miami has lost 5 times, including a home loss to dreadful Georgia Tech, a road whupping by dreadful Wake Forest, and a neutral court loss to 18-14 Indiana State.

Since the end of November, Duke has lost 5 times, not one of which is as bad as any of the above three of Miami's.

To suggest that if Duke gets a #1 over Miami "only November games count": idiotic. The problem, as always, isn't that Ryan is wrong. It's that his reasoning is so flimsy. You can absolutely make the argument that Miami deserves the #1 instead of us without insulting everyone's intelligence. Ryan never manages to quite clear that bar.

Greg_Newton
03-17-2013, 11:24 PM
Yeah, going into the ACCT, Miami was 3-3 in their last six, including aforementioned whupping by Wake, a home loss to GT, and a loss to Duke. Duke was 5-1 during that same span, only loss coming at UVA, and including a dominating win at UNC and win vs. Miami. I wouldn't say Miami has clearly been better than Duke during that span. I would also say that Duke was clearly the superior team until Kelly went down 2 months ago.

And on that note, he also completely ignores Kelly's injury. Miami was clearly better than Duke without Kelly; with him, not at all true.

Also, he's sort of implying that OOC games shouldn't factor into seedings, which is stupid. Like, of course Duke's incredible OOC run will factor into their seeding; those games aren't meaningless. When included in Duke's overall body of work, they have, statistically, a superior resume than that of Miami. If he wants to make the argument that our resume is impacted by the first half of the season, that's fine, but it's not really a revelatory point, and he phrased this "point" in an intentionally provocative and slightly misleading way, like he always does.