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David
02-27-2013, 09:26 PM
Each week, Jason King (ESPN.com) picks the top five players -- and three reserves -- to play for a high-profile coach in his King's Court column. (Current players are excluded.) He named his All-Coach K team in this week's column.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8993237/do-regular-season-championships-matter-college-basketball


Duke's All-Mike Krzyzewski team

Starters

G: Jay Williams -- Won NCAA title in 2001 and the Wooden Award in 2002
G: Johnny Dawkins -- Duke's second all-time leading scorer was national POY in 1987
F: Shane Battier -- Swept the national player of the years awards after winning 2001 title
F: Danny Ferry -- 1989 national player of the year owns single-game mark for points (58)
F: Christian Laettner -- All-American is the only player to start in four straight Final Fours

Bench

G/F: Grant Hill -- Two-time All-American and two-time NCAA champion
G: J.J. Redick -- School's all-time leading scorer; one of 13 players to have jersey retired
F: Shelden Williams -- Duke's career leader in blocks and rebounds

Some comments:
- It is a testament to how many great players have been through Duke under K, but you could put together a really nice second eight (e.g., Hurley, Brand, Boozer, Dunleavy, Deng, Banks, Singler, Kyrie just off the top of my head).
- Grant Hill has to start on this team. Hard to take seriously otherwise. I would have Battier coming off the bench.
- I would have taken Brand over Shelden.
- Bobby Hurley would have been in my top eight. I guess I would have to drop JJ.
- Thus, my starting five is Laett, Ferry, Hill, Dawkins, JWill and my reserves are Brand, Battier and Hurley. I think this team would win a few games... :D

turnandburn55
02-27-2013, 09:45 PM
Each week, Jason King (ESPN.com) picks the top five players -- and three reserves -- to play for a high-profile coach in his King's Court column. (Current players are excluded.) He named his All-Coach K team in this week's column.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8993237/do-regular-season-championships-matter-college-basketball



Some comments:
- It is a testament to how many great players have been through Duke under K, but you could put together a really nice second eight (e.g., Hurley, Brand, Boozer, Dunleavy, Deng, Banks, Singler, Kyrie just off the top of my head).
- Grant Hill has to start on this team. Hard to take seriously otherwise. I would have Battier coming off the bench.
- I would have taken Brand over Shelden.
- Bobby Hurley would have been in my top eight. I guess I would have to drop JJ.
- Thus, my starting five is Laett, Ferry, Hill, Dawkins, JWill and my reserves are Brand, Battier and Hurley. I think this team would win a few games... :D

I have no problem with Battier starting over Hill. I have no problem with the other way around either.

Leaving off Brand is understandable if we're comparing total body of work, but I simply don't buy Shelden Williams as being one of the top 8 players in Coach K's illustrious career.

Edouble
02-27-2013, 09:46 PM
Weak fact checking by Jason King, as I believe most Duke fans know that Battier did not sweep the player of the year awards in 2001. Jason Williams took the NABC POY Award.

Durham Thunder
02-27-2013, 09:48 PM
Battier plays the 4. Hill goes to the 3, hands down.

CoachJ10
02-27-2013, 10:00 PM
Any top 8 list that doesn't have Bobby Hurley...is not a top 8 list.

cptnflash
02-27-2013, 10:05 PM
The fact that there's a debate between Grant Hill and Shane Battier for a starting spot, or JJ Redick and Bobby Hurley for a seat on the bench, just goes to show what an unbelievable cavalcade of talent Coach K has been able to attract to Duke. And to think, his reputation is that he's a motivator first, an X's and O's coach second, and a recruiter third. If recruiting is really his third best skill, I'll still take it any day.

WeepingThomasHill
02-27-2013, 10:07 PM
I have been waiting all year for King to do his Duke team, and came away bitterly disappointed. I enjoy King's work, including his personal version of Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives, but his Duke squad had some big misses. That being said, this is a fun game and everyone will gripe that their favorite players were omitted.

Shelden had a great career, but in the top 8? He is not in my top 12. Over Brand? Brand was absolutely dominant. No Hurley? Sorry JJ but you are off the team.

My top 8:

Jason Williams
Hurley
Grant
Laet
Ferry

Bench: Battier, Dawkins, Brand.

Apologies to JJ, Singler, Scheyer, Dunleavy, Nolan, Boozer, Billy King, Tommy, and some my favorite role players like Thomas Hill, Kevin Strickland (a poor man's Thomas Hill), Alaa, Phil and Tony Lang.

I think we could all fill 5 teams and still leave plenty of talent out.

Durham Thunder
02-27-2013, 10:07 PM
Any top 8 list that doesn't have Bobby Hurley...is not a top 8 list.

That is a true statement, good point.

BuschDevil
02-27-2013, 10:46 PM
How do you leave out one of the 9 players from the K era with their jerseys in the rafters? I guess if I had to, it would be Shelden, but I'd rather pick 12, sort of our very own Dream Team.

Duke Dream Team: Johnny Dawkins, Tommy Amaker, Danny Ferry, Christian Laettner, Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill, Elton Brand, Shane Battier, Jay Williams, JJ Redick, Shelden Williams, & Kyrie Irving.

DU Select Team: Gene Banks, Vince Taylor, Mark Alarie, Billy King, Steve Wojciechowski, Trajan Langdon, Mike Dunleavy, Carlos Boozer, Loul Deng, Jon Scheyer, Kyle Singler, & Nolan Smith.

*** Another fact check for Jason King: Johnny Dawkins was not NPOY in 1987. It was 1986, his senior year. ***

Olympic Fan
02-28-2013, 12:23 AM
I can see the Grant Hill vs. Shane Battier debate -- the deciding factor might be that Shane was the consensus (not unanimous -- Jason beat him out for one award) national player of the year in 2001 ... Grant was never NPOY. Grant was the national defensive player of the year -- once. Shane was NDPOY three times. Shane was the Final Four MVP. Shane scored more points, more rebounds, more blocks and more steals in his career (Grant had more assists). Shane played in more wins than any player in Duke or ACC history ... tied for the most in NCAA history.

Tough call, but the five guys that were picked first team were all national players of the year ... Grant wasn't.

The Hurley vs. Shelden Williams call for the eighth spot is tough ... Williams ended up Duke's all-time leader in reounds and blocked shots ... Hurley was the all-time leader in assists. Both were consensus first-team All-Americans. Hurley was a Final Four MVP. Williams was a national defensive player of the year.

I can see either guy. As for Hurley vs. Redick .. well, JJ was the national POY -- actually he won a major POY award as a junior and was the concensus pick as a senior. As much as I loved Hurley, hard to argue that JJ was more honored. And he was the most prolific sorer in Duke history. Hurley holds the NCAA record for assists and JJ holds the NCAA record for three-pointers made.

I don't think King picked a bad team (and subs). It's a testimony to the great players K has had that so many great guys could be left out.

Wander
02-28-2013, 12:38 AM
I think if we're being completely honest as to who the best basketball players are, without regard to contributions to Duke or emotional investment, my list would look like:

Kyrie Irving
JJ Redick
Grant Hill
Shane Battier
Elton Brand

Subs: Christian Laettner, Jason Williams, Johnny Dawkins

Edouble
02-28-2013, 01:53 AM
I think if we're being completely honest as to who the best basketball players are, without regard to contributions to Duke or emotional investment, my list would look like:

Kyrie Irving
JJ Redick
Grant Hill
Shane Battier
Elton Brand

Subs: Christian Laettner, Jason Williams, Johnny Dawkins

If I'm being honest about who the best basketball players are, there is no way I could leave Laettner or Jason Williams off of the starting five. Just no way. Same thing with Grant Hill.

I also could not have Elton in my top 8. Don't think he was as dominant as the others. Did you see Danny Ferry play?

davekay1971
02-28-2013, 06:15 AM
First off: definitions. Are we talking best 8 during their time at Duke, or best 8 basketball players looking at their college and pro careers? Completely changes the debate, as Kyrie Irving was a scintillating, amazing player for 11 games at Duke, which wouldn't get him close to the list of "best players at Duke"...but he may end up being Duke's most accomplished NBA player (too early to tell yet on that, of course).

Anyway, here's my top 5 and 3 subs for their time at Duke.

PG: Hurley. I will accept no substitute
SG: J Dawk.
SF: Grant
PF: Ferry
C: Laettner

Subs: J Will, Redick, Battier

Guys that I'd have trouble explaining to them why they're not on the list because they were so freakin' amazing at Duke: Brand, Amaker, Boozer, Shelden, Singler, Scheyer, Smith (those 3 should almost go into the rafters as a single Knolon Schmingler jersey), Langdon...the list goes on.

As for the Grant vs. Battier debate, I picked Grant to start because, having watched most all of their remarkable games at Duke, Grant just did everything Shane did, but a little better. That's not taking anything away from Shane. Having to decide whether to start Shane or Grant is like deciding whether you'd like to have a sleepover with Rachel McAdams or Olivia Wilde. There are no losers here.

The Gordog
02-28-2013, 07:03 AM
If I'm being honest about who the best basketball players are, there is no way I could leave Laettner or Jason Williams off of the starting five. Just no way. Same thing with Grant Hill.

I also could not have Elton in my top 8. Don't think he was as dominant as the others. Did you see Danny Ferry play?

You are correct, sir.

To determine starteres I would look at who won national championships:

PG: Hurley
SG: JWill
SF: Grant
PF: Battier
C: Laettner

Bench: Johnny D, JJ, Ferry. Apologies to Shelden, our best defensive big man ever; if he had been on a better team he may have risen higher in this reckoning. I mean in 2006 we had a freshman PG in Paulus, an undersized SG in Ewing, and Lee Melchioni at the 4. Sometimes Lee would play over his head and we would beat a good team, but most of the time it would take a superhuman performance from our big 2 to make up for the weakness at the other positions to beat anyone good.

sagegrouse
02-28-2013, 07:45 AM
Duke has had a bunch of National Players of the Year in the past 30 years:

Dawkins
Ferry
Laettner
Brand
Battier
Williams
Redick

The last five were consensus choices. Those are my starters:

Lattner - C
Brand - PF
Battier - SF
Redick - SG
JWill - PG

Ferry (awarded NPOY by Naismisth, UPI, basketball writers and Basketball Weekly) and Dawkins (Naismith) come off the bench. But we need one more player. Grant (best basketball player -- so far -- ever to play for Duke) or Bobby (heart and soul of two champion teams) or Shelden (the Landlord collects the rent!)? Why do we need just one more? I'll take all three.

sagegrouse

Bluealum
02-28-2013, 08:34 AM
First off: definitions. Are we talking best 8 during their time at Duke, or best 8 basketball players looking at their college and pro careers? Completely changes the debate, as Kyrie Irving was a scintillating, amazing player for 11 games at Duke, which wouldn't get him close to the list of "best players at Duke"...but he may end up being Duke's most accomplished NBA player (too early to tell yet on that, of course).

Anyway, here's my top 5 and 3 subs for their time at Duke.

PG: Hurley. I will accept no substitute
SG: J Dawk.
SF: Grant
PF: Ferry
C: Laettner

Subs: J Will, Redick, Battier

Guys that I'd have trouble explaining to them why they're not on the list because they were so freakin' amazing at Duke: Brand, Amaker, Boozer, Shelden, Singler, Scheyer, Smith (those 3 should almost go into the rafters as a single Knolon Schmingler jersey), Langdon...the list goes on.

As for the Grant vs. Battier debate, I picked Grant to start because, having watched most all of their remarkable games at Duke, Grant just did everything Shane did, but a little better. That's not taking anything away from Shane. Having to decide whether to start Shane or Grant is like deciding whether you'd like to have a sleepover with Rachel McAdams or Olivia Wilde. There are no losers here.


I find it fascinating this Grant vs Shane debate. It's absolutely important to point out that Hurley, Hill, and Laettner played together and some have all 3 on their starting 5!. While this helped the team trophy case, I would argue it hampered each of their individual scoring stats. Grant single handedly carried the 94 team, with far less talent than our 2010 squad, to a 3 point shot away from a 3rd title in 4 years. He was incredible at Duke and would always start in my top 5. Then again so would Shane as the greatest leader in Duke hoops history. Impossible to leave Laettner off of course, so that's 3. With all this talent I would want the greatest passer in Duke history so Hurley, hands down. The real debate in my view is JJ vs Jason vs Johnny. I think an argument can be made for any of the 3 J's, but I would take JJ to create space for the other greats to operate. The other two J's and Brand on the bench.

This exercise in imagination never gets old!

PS - Olivia Wilde all day long, the starter debate is much tougher :)

Atldukie79
02-28-2013, 08:37 AM
I love and hate this argument...which I have frequently with other Dukies...although we usually discuss a traditional 12 man roster.

It's like choosing your favorite child...which (except for rare emotional moments;) )never happens!
Limiting our team to 8 is painful...why 8? Perhaps most programs would struggle to place 8 names with any noteriety on them.

I say limiting to 8 is for the average team with a coach with an average tenure of, what... 5 years?

I won't attempt to constrict myself (insert K's favorite analogy of trying to grow a plant in a bottle!) with 8. Sorry...too draining.

WillJ
02-28-2013, 08:48 AM
Fun discussion, so here are a few points that cross my mind.

1. Mark Alarie doesn't get enough credit. He's not in the Coack K top 8, but he was a fantastic college player. An all time fave and a guy that was absolutely crucial to the development of the program.
2. The 1994 team was not less talented than 2010, not by a long shot. They had G. Hill, but also Cherokee Parks (a lottery pick), Tony Lang, Jeff Capel, and some other talented players. Like many teams of that era, before massive early entry to the NBA, they would blow away all but a few NCAA teams from the last ten years.
3. Boozer and Brand were both much better players than Shelden Williams, though obviously neither played for four years.

Wander
02-28-2013, 09:01 AM
If I'm being honest about who the best basketball players are, there is no way I could leave Laettner or Jason Williams off of the starting five. Just no way. Same thing with Grant Hill.


All due respect to Jason Williams, but Kyrie is going to be remembered as the best basketball player to ever attend Duke University. I think Coach K has said somewhere that Grant Hill is the best player he's ever had at Duke. And Battier is one of the best defensive players of all time, in addition to being a great offensive player. Those are the three guys I feel are locks.

Brand and Redick over Ferry and Laettner are harder, but my logic goes something like: Brand was the best player on a team that is widely regarded as better than Ferry's 1989 team, and if Brand had stayed four years, he likely would have won multiple national player of the year awards. Redick is the best 3-point shooter in college basketball history, and being the best at something in the history of the sport is awesome. I feel dirty for leaving Laettner off, and have no argument with anyone who has him as their first selection on the list.

I guess my metric is something like: "if every Coach K player had been healthy at Duke for four years, what would their individual accomplishments look like?"

Of course, the real, smartass answer is:

Chris Paul
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwight Howard

(By the way, you can include the Olympic guys and still make a reasonable argument for Kyrie, at least on a three person bench)

jipops
02-28-2013, 09:16 AM
Come on, this would have to be a 7-man rotation. No way K would use 8 guys!:D

I'd go with:
Hurley
J Williams
Battier
G Hill
Laettner

It's the quintessential K lineup anyways: 2 pg's in the backcourt, 2 hybrid forwards, and a center that will step out to the 3 point line. This team would run, pressure the heck out of passing lanes, and get out-rebounded in half their games :).

Bench (okay I'll go with 3):
Dawkins
Redick
Brand

bballanj
02-28-2013, 10:34 AM
College accomplishments aside. Assume all players are at their peak college form for 1 game.

TEAM 1
Kyrie
JWill
Hill
Laettner
Williams

TEAM 2
Hurley
Dawkins
Battier
Ferry
Brand

arnie
02-28-2013, 10:41 AM
College accomplishments aside. Assume all players are at their peak college form for 1 game.

TEAM 1
Kyrie
JWill
Hill
Laettner
Williams

TEAM 2
Hurley
Dawkins
Battier
Ferry
Brand

I like team 1 with Elliot Williams and 3-guard lineup. Battier will be gassed trying to keep up. Not sure u meant it this way.

Bluedog
02-28-2013, 10:42 AM
I like team 1 with Elliot Williams and 3-guard lineup. Battier will be gassed trying to keep up. Not sure u meant it this way.

Elliot? heehee. I'm sure bballanj is referring to the PF Williams who has his jersey retired, not the guy who transferred after one year of playing relatively sparingly. :)

arnie
02-28-2013, 10:46 AM
Elliot? heehee. I'm sure bballanj is referring to the PF Williams who has his jersey retired, not the guy who transferred after one year of playing relatively sparingly. :)

Yea I was bored waiting on the game tonite. Of course, you realize Elliot played many more Duke games than Kyrie.

juise
02-28-2013, 10:46 AM
Elliot? heehee. I'm sure bballanj is referring to the PF Williams who has his jersey retired, not the guy who transferred after one year of playing relatively sparingly. :)

Yeah, clearly Elliot would be on the Team 1 bench subbing for Thomas Hill. ;)

jipops
02-28-2013, 11:22 AM
College accomplishments aside. Assume all players are at their peak college form for 1 game.

TEAM 1
Kyrie
JWill
Hill
Laettner
Williams

TEAM 2
Hurley
Dawkins
Battier
Ferry
Brand

Team 1 in 12 overtimes decided by a controversial block/charge call.

rsvman
02-28-2013, 12:11 PM
College accomplishments aside. Assume all players are at their peak college form for 1 game.

TEAM 1
Kyrie
JWill
Hill
Laettner
Williams

TEAM 2
Hurley
Dawkins
Battier
Ferry
Brand

I would take Team 1 and give 2 points.

hurleyfor3
02-28-2013, 02:44 PM
Kobe Bryant
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Carlos Boozer... hey, we agree on something

turnandburn55
02-28-2013, 04:57 PM
You are correct, sir.

To determine starteres I would look at who won national championships:

PG: Hurley
SG: JWill
SF: Grant
PF: Battier
C: Laettner

Bench: Johnny D, JJ, Ferry. Apologies to Shelden, our best defensive big man ever; if he had been on a better team he may have risen higher in this reckoning. I mean in 2006 we had a freshman PG in Paulus, an undersized SG in Ewing, and Lee Melchioni at the 4. Sometimes Lee would play over his head and we would beat a good team, but most of the time it would take a superhuman performance from our big 2 to make up for the weakness at the other positions to beat anyone good.

Daniel Ewing graduated in 2005, and played PG that year.

gls6
02-28-2013, 04:58 PM
B. Hurley, J. Williams, J. Redick, S. Battier, E. Brand

C. Laettner, C. Boozer, K. Singler

Maybe I just don't remember Laettner well enough, but I like Battier to start at the 4 and we have to have a true point guard with Hurley. I like having the two dominant big men in Brand and Boozer. I really liked Singler as a player, and I will just put him here on my bench to be different.

Extending the list to 12 I would add G. Hill, J. Dawkins, D. Ferry, and K. Irving.

DU82
02-28-2013, 05:14 PM
There is no way that I'd choose Bobby Hurley over Johnny Dawkins, either as part of the top eight, or to start. And I love Bobby.

CameronBlue
02-28-2013, 05:20 PM
Team 1 in 12 overtimes decided by a controversial block/charge call.

Battier does NOT flop. Take that back sir!

Battier v Hill. Has the ring of a court case which is where this argument may have to be settled.

Writing for the majority: The 94 team without Grant is a bubble team at best. K may have gone farther with them than did Gaudet but the 95 team was seriously depleted of talent owing to the absence of one person Grant (in all deference to Marty & Tony)

The 2001 Team without Battier? That would be the 2002 team a title contender and likely FF participant were it not for a missed Jason Williams freethrow and a Carlos Boozer bludgeoning for which a warrant should have been issued. Decision goes to Mr. Hill. No appeals.

vick
02-28-2013, 05:43 PM
Battier does NOT flop. Take that back sir!

Battier v Hill. Has the ring of a court case which is where this argument may have to be settled.

Writing for the majority: The 94 team without Grant is a bubble team at best. K may have gone farther with them than did Gaudet but the 95 team was seriously depleted of talent owing to the absence of one person Grant (in all deference to Marty & Tony)

The 2001 Team without Battier? That would be the 2002 team a title contender and likely FF participant were it not for a missed Jason Williams freethrow and a Carlos Boozer bludgeoning for which a warrant should have been issued. Decision goes to Mr. Hill. No appeals.

Wait now, let's be fair, your honor: the 2002 team wasn't the 2001 team minus Battier, it was the 2001 team minus Battier (and James) plus two guys good enough to get drafted into the NBA, Daniel Ewing (as a freshman) and redshirt junior Dahntay Jones. I'm not sure that this is quite as strong as you say.

The other thing is, wouldn't that argument be pretty bad for Hurley's case? I mean, the 1994 team lost Hurley and Thomas Hill (who scored the second-most points on two (!) national championship teams), added freshmen Jeff Capel, Carmen Wallace, and Greg Newton, who were fine-enough players but not exactly all-timers, especially as freshmen, and not only didn't get much worse, they actually got better--going from a 3-seed second round team to a 2-seed national runner-up.

NYBri
02-28-2013, 06:21 PM
This thread is a picture perfect definition of the phrase, "Embarrassment of Riches."

AND with all this talk about players who are justified to be mentioned, the fact that folks like Nolan and Dahntay would make most school's first team and they aren't even in the mix here, is pretty incredible.

CameronBlue
02-28-2013, 07:24 PM
Wait now, let's be fair, your honor: the 2002 team wasn't the 2001 team minus Battier, it was the 2001 team minus Battier (and James) plus two guys good enough to get drafted into the NBA, Daniel Ewing (as a freshman) and redshirt junior Dahntay Jones. I'm not sure that this is quite as strong as you say.

The other thing is, wouldn't that argument be pretty bad for Hurley's case? I mean, the 1994 team lost Hurley and Thomas Hill (who scored the second-most points on two (!) national championship teams), added freshmen Jeff Capel, Carmen Wallace, and Greg Newton, who were fine-enough players but not exactly all-timers, especially as freshmen, and not only didn't get much worse, they actually got better--going from a 3-seed second round team to a 2-seed national runner-up.

In the case of the latter, rather than besmirching the legacy of Hurley wouldn't it instead further illustrate the transcendent abilities of Grant and support the argument that he's a K-era first-teamer? Clearly a Sr Hurley and Hill replaced by freshmen JC, CW & GN would be a net loss one would logically assume. So what explains the 94 team's greater success by comparison? One explanation could be that the Sr Hill had grown into and accepted the role of being team's leader. An assertive Grant Hill from the point guard position where he played a good bit of the season could more profoundly influence a game's outcome than anyone on either the 94 or 95 team I think it's safe to say. I see no better argument to make than to suggest that it was virtually Grant alone who allowed the 94 team to overcome the net loss of talent. Of course one flirts with specious reasoning to ignore that late in the loss to Cal Chief was out on fouls and Grant was nursing a sprained ankle (or do I have that reversed). As to the former, Dahntay sat out the 2002 season IIRC. Again given the relative influence on their respective teams as the deciding metric Grant gets the nod over Battier.

AtlDuke72
02-28-2013, 07:36 PM
[QUOTE=gls6;630794]B. Hurley, J. Williams, J. Redick, S. Battier, E. Brand

C. Laettner, C. Boozer, K. Singler

Maybe I just don't remember . . .

You young guys don't have the advantage of having seen them all. For better or worse, I have seen them all and the best two were Johnny Dawkins and Grant Hill. Throw in Laettner, Ferry and Battier and bet the ranch against anybody. The saddest thing is that Kyrie had such a short time as a Devil because I thing he would have been the best ever if you can imagine him playing 4 years in college. It is a fun discussion!

mndukie
02-28-2013, 09:48 PM
Dahntay sat out the 2001 National Championship season.


QUOTE=CameronBlue;630826]In the case of the latter, rather than besmirching the legacy of Hurley wouldn't it instead further illustrate the transcendent abilities of Grant and support the argument that he's a K-era first-teamer? Clearly a Sr Hurley and Hill replaced by freshmen JC, CW & GN would be a net loss one would logically assume. So what explains the 94 team's greater success by comparison? One explanation could be that the Sr Hill had grown into and accepted the role of being team's leader. An assertive Grant Hill from the point guard position where he played a good bit of the season could more profoundly influence a game's outcome than anyone on either the 94 or 95 team I think it's safe to say. I see no better argument to make than to suggest that it was virtually Grant alone who allowed the 94 team to overcome the net loss of talent. Of course one flirts with specious reasoning to ignore that late in the loss to Cal Chief was out on fouls and Grant was nursing a sprained ankle (or do I have that reversed). As to the former, Dahntay sat out the 2002 season IIRC. Again given the relative influence on their respective teams as the deciding metric Grant gets the nod over Battier.[/QUOTE]