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JasonEvans
02-22-2013, 07:37 PM
This time the "victim" is Robert Swift (http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo/article/Former-Sonic-loses-home-to-foreclosure-refuses-4299337.php). He went pro directly out of high school in 2004 and was the 12th pick of the 1st round, going to the Sonics. He struggled his 1st year but started playing better his 2nd. He was the presumed starting center for the Sonics his third year in the league but blew out his ACL in the pre-season. A year later, he hurt his knee again and by 2009, he was out of the NBA. He played in Japan for a couple season and, according to reports, he made about $20 million over the course of his career.

He is now 27 years old. He has not played pro ball in about 2 years... and his house just got foreclosed upon. To make matters worse, he is holed up inside the house and refusing to leave. When someone came to visit, they were told he was taking pills and could not come to the door to speak. The lawn in front of the house is littered with beer cans and the home is pock-marked with bullet holes. Yikes!

I wonder if going to college for a year, maybe connecting a bit with a coach who could be a mentor, perhaps gaining a little more perspective on the world, and being a little more mature when he entered the NBA might have made a bit of a difference for him. What a waste...

-Jason "it ain't Kenny Anderson, Antoine Walker, or Allen Iverson... but it is yet another story of a mega-rich athlete blowing it all in the blink of an eye" Evans

brevity
02-22-2013, 08:08 PM
A strange variation of a common story.

This is my Robert Smith sad face.

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Olympic Fan
02-22-2013, 11:04 PM
Well, to be fair, he did destroy the MegaStreisand ...

quahog174
02-23-2013, 06:57 AM
Uh, article says last name is Swift, not Smith. Sounds like he's not so swift, though.

jipops
02-23-2013, 09:11 AM
60% of NBA players go broke 5 years after retirement. The number is much worse for NFL players at 78% in 2 years. It's pretty obvious there is a major problem going on here. These kids don't seem to grasp that their athletic careers are such a small portion of their lifetime. But I can see why they wouldn't get that.

snowdenscold
02-23-2013, 11:16 AM
Someone needed to watch ESPN's 30 for 30: "Broke". Actually, all pro athletes probably should.

theAlaskanBear
02-23-2013, 11:21 AM
60% of NBA players go broke 5 years after retirement. The number is much worse for NFL players at 78% in 2 years. It's pretty obvious there is a major problem going on here. These kids don't seem to grasp that their athletic careers are such a small portion of their lifetime. But I can see why they wouldn't get that.

What kind of sources are you looking at Jipop? Not debating, just intellectually curious.

The NFL is worse because careers are shorter, salaries are lower, and because the contracts are not guaranteed.

Newton_14
02-23-2013, 11:51 AM
60% of NBA players go broke 5 years after retirement. The number is much worse for NFL players at 78% in 2 years. It's pretty obvious there is a major problem going on here. These kids don't seem to grasp that their athletic careers are such a small portion of their lifetime. But I can see why they wouldn't get that.


Someone needed to watch ESPN's 30 for 30: "Broke". Actually, all pro athletes probably should.

Strongly agree with both of you guys. This is one reason I am so against early entry in hoops. 99.9% of the younguns entering the league are not ready mentally, physically, or are mature enough. I did watch that 30 for 30 and found it incredibly sad. One poor guy signed a $3.5 mil contract and thought that meant he was going to have $3.5 mil in his bank account right away. He had no idea Taxes were going to eat up a good 40% of that, and that he would actually be receiving monthly checks, and only during the season.

I still feel strongly that Colleges should offer a Professional Sports Curriculum both for athlete's and for people that aspire to be professional or college coaches/trainers/agents/etc, to prepare these guys for their professional sports career's. Business and Finance classes should be mandatory/core courses in the curriculum to teach these guys (and gals) how the finances work, how to manage money correctly, etc, so they are better equipped when they get to the NBA/NFL/WNBA/etc, and know how to actually grow their money and secure their future's rather than blowing all of it and ending up with nothing.

The 30 for 30 also revealed that these guys are bombarded by sleazebags literally begging them to "invest" as partners in the sleazebag's latest "business venture", and many of them get scammed out of hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of dollars in these scams.

I just find this incredibly sad and wish there were a way to drive the percentage of players this happens to down to a much lower casualty rate.

Turtleboy
02-23-2013, 12:28 PM
What kind of sources are you looking at Jipop? Not debating, just intellectually curious.

I'd like to know as well. I've heard those figures bandied about a lot but have never seen any hard data to back them up.

tommy
02-23-2013, 12:36 PM
This time the "victim" is Robert Swift (http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo/article/Former-Sonic-loses-home-to-foreclosure-refuses-4299337.php). He went pro directly out of high school in 2004 and was the 12th pick of the 1st round, going to the Sonics. He struggled his 1st year but started playing better his 2nd. He was the presumed starting center for the Sonics his third year in the league but blew out his ACL in the pre-season. A year later, he hurt his knee again and by 2009, he was out of the NBA. He played in Japan for a couple season and, according to reports, he made about $20 million over the course of his career.

He is now 27 years old. He has not played pro ball in about 2 years... and his house just got foreclosed upon. To make matters worse, he is holed up inside the house and refusing to leave. When someone came to visit, they were told he was taking pills and could not come to the door to speak. The lawn in front of the house is littered with beer cans and the home is pock-marked with bullet holes. Yikes!

I wonder if going to college for a year, maybe connecting a bit with a coach who could be a mentor, perhaps gaining a little more perspective on the world, and being a little more mature when he entered the NBA might have made a bit of a difference for him. What a waste...

-Jason "it ain't Kenny Anderson, Antoine Walker, or Allen Iverson... but it is yet another story of a mega-rich athlete blowing it all in the blink of an eye" Evans

Of course the ideas you are proposing and how they would almost always benefit the young men in question make obvious and common sense. In this particular case though, before deciding to go pro out of high school, Swift had already made one knuckleheaded decision -- to go to USC and play for Henry Bibby. Wouldn't have gotten a whole lot in terms of life lessons and mentoring from that cold and distant man, and not a whole lot of basketball knowledge either.

theAlaskanBear
02-23-2013, 12:40 PM
Strongly agree with both of you guys. This is one reason I am so against early entry in hoops. 99.9% of the younguns entering the league are not ready mentally, physically, or are mature enough. I did watch that 30 for 30 and found it incredibly sad. One poor guy signed a $3.5 mil contract and thought that meant he was going to have $3.5 mil in his bank account right away. He had no idea Taxes were going to eat up a good 40% of that, and that he would actually be receiving monthly checks, and only during the season.

I still feel strongly that Colleges should offer a Professional Sports Curriculum both for athlete's and for people that aspire to be professional or college coaches/trainers/agents/etc, to prepare these guys for their professional sports career's. Business and Finance classes should be mandatory/core courses in the curriculum to teach these guys (and gals) how the finances work, how to manage money correctly, etc, so they are better equipped when they get to the NBA/NFL/WNBA/etc, and know how to actually grow their money and secure their future's rather than blowing all of it and ending up with nothing.

The 30 for 30 also revealed that these guys are bombarded by sleazebags literally begging them to "invest" as partners in the sleazebag's latest "business venture", and many of them get scammed out of hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of dollars in these scams.

I just find this incredibly sad and wish there were a way to drive the percentage of players this happens to down to a much lower casualty rate.

I agree about the sports curriculum, it would include not only financial classes, but contracts and sports law, physiology, nutrition and health classes, sports marketing, etc. Of course you have to worry about these programs becoming "academic clearinghouses" for university athletes like the AfAm department at UNC-CH, and you also have to really worry about pigeonholing/forcing athletes into these programs leading to potentially a one-dimensional and unfulfilling life for some, athletes need to have hobbies and interests and education beyond sports. Also, lets not pretend its just athletes who have this problem, as someone in my mid-20s, plenty of us non-professional athletes could have used more financial education in school. Young+money+fame+short competitive career= perfect fiscal storm.

brevity
02-23-2013, 03:44 PM
Uh, article says last name is Swift, not Smith. Sounds like he's not so swift, though.

Serves me right for not clicking the link and just relying on Jason's description. Anyone who thinks Duke had 2.3 seconds to beat Kentucky in 1992 cannot be trusted.

Not as funny, but here is my Robert Swift sad face:
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MartyClark
02-23-2013, 04:01 PM
Thanks for the link. I remember when this guy was drafted. I remember thinking "what the heck?", how is this guy a 1st round pick?

The story is interesting but it's hard for me to feel much sympathy about this guy's situation. He's apparently 27 years old, has blown through millions of dollars, and now faces a problem of his own making. Perhaps, like most 27 year olds, he'll need to work for the next 30+ years to support himself.

I'm in favor of programs to educate young athletes on making good financial decisions. As I understand it, the NFL has had this type of program with financial counseling available for all of its young players. Even with 3 years of college, it seems that many, if not most, of the NFL players don't make good financial decisions. You can lead a horse to water ...

jipops
02-23-2013, 04:09 PM
What kind of sources are you looking at Jipop? Not debating, just intellectually curious.

The NFL is worse because careers are shorter, salaries are lower, and because the contracts are not guaranteed.

I've heard it discussed on talk radio lately.

Here is an article found via google:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/story/2012-04-22/Pro-athletes-and-financial-trouble/54465664/1

Kdogg
02-23-2013, 05:00 PM
Strongly agree with both of you guys. This is one reason I am so against early entry in hoops. 99.9% of the younguns entering the league are not ready mentally, physically, or are mature enough. I did watch that 30 for 30 and found it incredibly sad. One poor guy signed a $3.5 mil contract and thought that meant he was going to have $3.5 mil in his bank account right away. He had no idea Taxes were going to eat up a good 40% of that, and that he would actually be receiving monthly checks, and only during the season.


NBA rookies all get a crash course in finance directly from the NBA at a "rookie camp." This is a manadatory thing. If these guys don't listen then it's all on them. I have a hard time feeling sorry for any of them. In truth he was lucky to get as much as he did. That draft year the Celtics were trying to "hide" him so they could draft him later. All that cloak and dagger raised his draft stock. The Sonics picked him up a few spots earlier so he picked up more money. I've suffered many bad Sonic drafts but remember that one really perplexed me.

mgtr
02-23-2013, 05:21 PM
I still feel strongly that Colleges should offer a Professional Sports Curriculum both for athlete's and for people that aspire to be professional or college coaches/trainers/agents/etc, to prepare these guys for their professional sports career's. Business and Finance classes should be mandatory/core courses in the curriculum to teach these guys (and gals) how the finances work, how to manage money correctly, etc, so they are better equipped when they get to the NBA/NFL/WNBA/etc, and know how to actually grow their money and secure their future's rather than blowing all of it and ending up with nothing.


Of course I agree, but would go further. I think all colllege students should have such a course. Most students have not been in the real world (some have, of course) and have no idea about taxes, retirement, health care and investments. I would venture that most would jump at the chance at working for $40K a year forever, knowing nothing about inflation, the cost of children, etc. Having taught these kids in business courses, I was routinely shocked at how little they understood the real world, even if they were ace students. I had plenty of former students return after, say, 10 years who would complain about the relevance of what I taught them. Sad.

Ian
02-23-2013, 06:44 PM
NBA rookies all get a crash course in finance directly from the NBA at a "rookie camp." This is a manadatory thing. If these guys don't listen then it's all on them. I have a hard time feeling sorry for any of them. In truth he was lucky to get as much as he did. That draft year the Celtics were trying to "hide" him so they could draft him later. All that cloak and dagger raised his draft stock. The Sonics picked him up a few spots earlier so he picked up more money. I've suffered many bad Sonic drafts but remember that one really perplexed me.

I can also give a 10 year old a course in calculus, doesn't mean he's going to be able to do derivatives after the course.

It takes experience and maturity to understand some of these stuff in finances. Giving a 18 year old who's never paid a bill or filed taxes a course isn't going to do him much good. This is one of the reason why the urgency to "get the money" is misplaced.

dukelifer
02-23-2013, 06:53 PM
I can also give a 10 year old a course in calculus, doesn't mean he's going to be able to do derivatives after the course.

It takes experience and maturity to understand some of these stuff in finances. Giving a 18 year old who's never paid a bill or filed taxes a course isn't going to do him much good. This is one of the reason why the urgency to "get the money" is misplaced.

Might be better to give the bulk of the money to these guys after they play - held in a trust. Minor league players ride the bus and live on nothing for years - they probably learn the value of a dollar.

JasonEvans
02-23-2013, 07:48 PM
I knew it was Robert Swift... dunno how I wrote Smith. So sorry.

Also, what is .2 seconds among friends? Eh?

Lastly, I have long recommended that all pro sports leagues hold back a portion of player salaries -- say 10-20% -- and that it be invested in a combination of stock index and bond funds (you could have a panel of professional investment advisers picking a reasonably safe path that also offers reasonable growth). The moment a player retires from the NBA, it would be easy to compute how long he would have from that date until his pension kicked in and the money would then be re-paid in equal monthly installments over that time.

So, Swift would have at least a couple million, which will continue to grow slowly, that would be paid out to him monthly over the next 30 years. It would be enough to keep him from being bankrupt, at least.

Some have criticized this as a way of treating the players like babies and denying them full access to their funds, but it seems clear that something needs to be done.

-Jason "I feel like something major happened with 2.3 seconds left... my brain must be dead" Evans

hurleyfor3
02-23-2013, 08:25 PM
Lastly, I have long recommended that all pro sports leagues hold back a portion of player salaries -- say 10-20% -- and that it be invested in a combination of stock index and bond funds (you could have a panel of professional investment advisers picking a reasonably safe path that also offers reasonable growth). The moment a player retires from the NBA, it would be easy to compute how long he would have from that date until his pension kicked in and the money would then be re-paid in equal monthly installments over that time.

That's pretty much how all pension plans already work. What you're suggesting is a modified 457 plan, where withdrawals can take place before age 59 without penalty, but contributions aren't capped at the 401k limits.

sagegrouse
02-24-2013, 05:35 AM
Lastly, I have long recommended that all pro sports leagues hold back a portion of player salaries -- say 10-20% -- and that it be invested in a combination of stock index and bond funds (you could have a panel of professional investment advisers picking a reasonably safe path that also offers reasonable growth). The moment a player retires from the NBA, it would be easy to compute how long he would have from that date until his pension kicked in and the money would then be re-paid in equal monthly installments over that time.




That's pretty much how all pension plans already work. What you're suggesting is a modified 457 plan, where withdrawals can take place before age 59 without penalty, but contributions aren't capped at the 401k limits.

The problem, Jason, is that if an NBA player is several millions dollars in debt, how can he (or anyone else) protect his deferred income from creditors?
Perhaps it could be set up as a charity that could dispense money as needed for living expenses? This welfare fund could be jointly funded by the players and the league.

sagegrouse

Bob Green
02-24-2013, 06:05 AM
Am I cold-hearted for saying I could careless about professional athletes who blow millions in income? I've worked hard my whole life starting in a North Carolina tobacco field at age 14 so I have a difficult time mustering up any empathy.

They're broke and it is their fault, perhaps they should go get a job.

TruBlu
02-24-2013, 07:39 AM
Am I cold-hearted for saying I could careless about professional athletes who blow millions in income? I've worked hard my whole life starting in a North Carolina tobacco field at age 14 so I have a difficult time mustering up any empathy.

They're broke and it is their fault, perhaps they should go get a job.

Nope, you are not cold-hearted, just honest.

As far as getting a job, I am reminded of the line from the movie "Raising Arizona":
"You're young, you've got your health . . . why do you need a job"*

*quoted from memory, not necessarily the most reliable source

CrazyNotCrazie
02-24-2013, 09:01 AM
The leagues should look into whether there is any trend as to who the agents are for players who go bankrupt. I believe all agents have to be certified by the league (though I think that is an extremely easy thing to accomplish), so for the good of the players, agents who consistently have players encounter financial problems should be decertified. Obviously, an agent can be as conservative financially as possible and if the player doesn't want to listen, he won't, but trying to avoid situations like these by having the players conservatively invest a portion of their paychecks should be part of the agent's fiduciary responsibility.

Kdogg
02-26-2013, 11:56 AM
From the Mint.com (started by a Dukie) on where the money goes and other facts/figures.

http://www.mint.com/blog/how-to/from-stoked-to-broke-why-are-so-many-professional-athletes-going-bankrupt-0213/?display=wide

subzero02
02-26-2013, 12:10 PM
Strongly agree with both of you guys. This is one reason I am so against early entry in hoops. 99.9% of the younguns entering the league are not ready mentally, physically, or are mature enough. I did watch that 30 for 30 and found it incredibly sad. One poor guy signed a $3.5 mil contract and thought that meant he was going to have $3.5 mil in his bank account right away. He had no idea Taxes were going to eat up a good 40% of that, and that he would actually be receiving monthly checks, and only during the season.

I still feel strongly that Colleges should offer a Professional Sports Curriculum both for athlete's and for people that aspire to be professional or college coaches/trainers/agents/etc, to prepare these guys for their professional sports career's. Business and Finance classes should be mandatory/core courses in the curriculum to teach these guys (and gals) how the finances work, how to manage money correctly, etc, so they are better equipped when they get to the NBA/NFL/WNBA/etc, and know how to actually grow their money and secure their future's rather than blowing all of it and ending up with nothing.

The 30 for 30 also revealed that these guys are bombarded by sleazebags literally begging them to "invest" as partners in the sleazebag's latest "business venture", and many of them get scammed out of hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of dollars in these scams.

I just find this incredibly sad and wish there were a way to drive the percentage of players this happens to down to a much lower casualty rate.



Since NFL players appear to squander their millions at a rate that is comparable to that of NBA players, it suggests that 3 years of college does little improve ones financial acumen. I think the only thing that would work is a mandatory investment program for their first $10 million of income... ie 5% of the first $10 million has to be put in a low risk fund or CD... once they earn over $10 million, they can spend their money however they want.

Turtleboy
02-26-2013, 01:15 PM
The USA Today link simply refers to a Sports Illustrated "estimate" and then links to a site that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The Mint article does even less. Does anyone have any hard data? The kind that can be checked?

dukeofcalabash
02-26-2013, 01:17 PM
60% of NBA players go broke 5 years after retirement. The number is much worse for NFL players at 78% in 2 years. It's pretty obvious there is a major problem going on here. These kids don't seem to grasp that their athletic careers are such a small portion of their lifetime. But I can see why they wouldn't get that.

These statistics are just another example of what college academics has become, regardless of the few who "skip" college. I believe that the "athletic status" given to many non-qualified athletes accounts for these types of problems. In other words, universities and colleges all across America bring in these kids to make profit and that's just the plain truth of the matter. It is up to them to hold students accountable for being ready for college academics (and NOT including easy, made for the athlete degrees), not to ready them for football and basketball. Don't get me wrong, I love both of these sports, just not what they've become.

FerryFor50
02-26-2013, 02:18 PM
Since NFL players appear to squander their millions at a rate that is comparable to that of NBA players, it suggests that 3 years of college does little improve ones financial acumen. I think the only thing that would work is a mandatory investment program for their first $10 million of income... ie 5% of the first $10 million has to be put in a low risk fund or CD... once they earn over $10 million, they can spend their money however they want.

Is there a finance management portion of the African Studies program at UNC?

jipops
02-26-2013, 02:31 PM
Am I cold-hearted for saying I could careless about professional athletes who blow millions in income? I've worked hard my whole life starting in a North Carolina tobacco field at age 14 so I have a difficult time mustering up any empathy.

They're broke and it is their fault, perhaps they should go get a job.

I don't think it's necessarily cold-hearted. People make their own decisions. But I don't know how realistic it is for some poor kid from an unstable background to know what to do with millions of dollars when it's thrown at him/her. What model has that kid had to work from? There is probably a whole ripple effect that has contributed to this issue. Part of the problem is that universities, the ncaa, and the NBA have not cared- doesn't have anything to do with their bottom line.

Bob Green
02-26-2013, 03:26 PM
But I don't know how realistic it is for some poor kid from an unstable background to know what to do with millions of dollars when it's thrown at him/her. What model has that kid had to work from?

I agree and would add that I don't know how realistic it is for some working class kid from a stable background to know what to do with hundreds of dollars in Sailor's pay. What model has that kid had to work from? Well at least the kid from a stable background has watched his parents pay bills and balance the checkbook before taking the family out for pizza on Saturday night. Shakey's Pizza on Bragg Boulevard, hmmm....delicious memories.

Seriously, it is about education. As a young Sailor the U.S. Navy provided me, on top of a first class technical education in electronics, a lot of training in areas such as personal hygeine, first aid, general workplace and home safety, and many other useful topics, but they provided me zero personal financial management training. The same can be said for the North Carolina Public School System. Looking back, classes such as Business Math, Financial Management and Economics would have been useful alongside the Algebra, Chemistry, Physics, English, History.....

Even today as a civilian government employee, I am required to complete annual computer based training courses on antiterrorism/force protection, operational risk management, general records management, purchase card procedures, workplace fire prevention and many more topics, but no training on personal finances is required.

The ex-professional athlete needs to learn from their mistakes and move on just like I had to learn from my mistakes and move on. The difference is I blew small paychecks valued in hundreds of dollars and learned my lesson while I still had a job.

The final point I'll offer is these players are all represented by agents who know a lot about money. While there are certainly some shady characters working as sports agents, I'd say in the majority of cases the professional athlete had access to solid advice on safe investment strategies. I am probably beating a dead horse and I am certainly boring anyone still reading so I'll stop the ranting.

FerryFor50
02-26-2013, 03:34 PM
Is there a finance management portion of the African Studies program at UNC?

Someone pointed out, correctly, that this could be construed as racist. :)

Meant to say "African and African American studies"

jimsumner
02-26-2013, 04:07 PM
I agree and would add that I don't know how realistic it is for some working class kid from a stable background to know what to do with hundreds of dollars in Sailor's pay. What model has that kid had to work from? Well at least the kid from a stable background has watched his parents pay bills and balance the checkbook before taking the family out for pizza on Saturday night. Shakey's Pizza on Bragg Boulevard, hmmm....delicious memories.

Seriously, it is about education. As a young Sailor the U.S. Navy provided me, on top of a first class technical education in electronics, a lot of training in areas such as personal hygeine, first aid, general workplace and home safety, and many other useful topics, but they provided me zero personal financial management training. The same can be said for the North Carolina Public School System. Looking back, classes such as Business Math, Financial Management and Economics would have been useful alongside the Algebra, Chemistry, Physics, English, History.....

Even today as a civilian government employee, I am required to complete annual computer based training courses on antiterrorism/force protection, operational risk management, general records management, purchase card procedures, workplace fire prevention and many more topics, but no training on personal finances is required.

The ex-professional athlete needs to learn from their mistakes and move on just like I had to learn from my mistakes and move on. The difference is I blew small paychecks valued in hundreds of dollars and learned my lesson while I still had a job.

The final point I'll offer is these players are all represented by agents who know a lot about money. While there are certainly some shady characters working as sports agents, I'd say in the majority of cases the professional athlete had access to solid advice on safe investment strategies. I am probably beating a dead horse and I am certainly boring anyone still reading so I'll stop the ranting.

I don't have the data base to support this but I suspect that 20-year-old musicians or actors who become rich and famous overnight have a comparable crash-and-burn rate. In other words, it's not just athletes but a function of age, education and judgment.

Maybe age doesn't even factor in. I've seen studies that show that lottery winners can run through a lot of money in a short period of time, with little to show for it.

I keep thinking back to Kenny Anderson, who did have two years at Georgia Tech. During an NBA work stoppage, he complained about the upkeep on the dozen or so cars he owned. And I believe Anderson eventually did declare bankruptcy. Anderson's not a dummy. But he sure made some inexplicable financial choices.

I'd love to have a chance to squander 20 million dollars. Or maybe not. Root of all evil and all that.

NSDukeFan
02-26-2013, 04:44 PM
I agree and would add that I don't know how realistic it is for some working class kid from a stable background to know what to do with hundreds of dollars in Sailor's pay. What model has that kid had to work from? Well at least the kid from a stable background has watched his parents pay bills and balance the checkbook before taking the family out for pizza on Saturday night. Shakey's Pizza on Bragg Boulevard, hmmm....delicious memories.

Seriously, it is about education. As a young Sailor the U.S. Navy provided me, on top of a first class technical education in electronics, a lot of training in areas such as personal hygeine, first aid, general workplace and home safety, and many other useful topics, but they provided me zero personal financial management training. The same can be said for the North Carolina Public School System. Looking back, classes such as Business Math, Financial Management and Economics would have been useful alongside the Algebra, Chemistry, Physics, English, History.....

Even today as a civilian government employee, I am required to complete annual computer based training courses on antiterrorism/force protection, operational risk management, general records management, purchase card procedures, workplace fire prevention and many more topics, but no training on personal finances is required.

The ex-professional athlete needs to learn from their mistakes and move on just like I had to learn from my mistakes and move on. The difference is I blew small paychecks valued in hundreds of dollars and learned my lesson while I still had a job.

The final point I'll offer is these players are all represented by agents who know a lot about money. While there are certainly some shady characters working as sports agents, I'd say in the majority of cases the professional athlete had access to solid advice on safe investment strategies. I am probably beating a dead horse and I am certainly boring anyone still reading so I'll stop the ranting.

I will be forever grateful to the Physics teacher who decided to skip Physics for a day to teach his class about the power of compounding. I don't remember any of my other high school physics classes, but I do remember that one. Otherwise, there is little education for the general population about financial management.

77devil
02-26-2013, 06:43 PM
I will be forever grateful to the Physics teacher who decided to skip Physics for a day to teach his class about the power of compounding. I don't remember any of my other high school physics classes, but I do remember that one. Otherwise, there is little education for the general population about financial management.

Compounding is exponential and a wonderful thing. I remind my children of the rule of 72. Save now, spend later.

Henderson
02-26-2013, 07:08 PM
I was appointed to an NCAA Career Counseling Team for a major midwestern university some years ago when I worked there. It was for the basketball program, which had some rising stars that were obviously going to go pro but also some NCAA compliance issues. Our task was to provide financial basics, explain the consequences of a short but rich career, give advice about long term financial thinking, and say, "watch out."

The coaching staff was openly hostile. The players seemed ostentatiously bored. It did no good.

My understanding is that both the NBA and NFL provide that kind of advising for rookies. I also understand that many of the rookies just sleep through it.

Some poster mentioned the ESPN documentary on this subject. It seemed pretty accurate in my limited experience.

sagegrouse
02-27-2013, 08:53 AM
Truthfully, the folks likely to have the most influence on players are the agents. I know two, and they have done good work in helping their players make reasonable financial decisions. A friend here in Steamboat, now retired, has been given a lot of credit by his players, but even he says there were a bunch that didn't listen.

Agents at least have some control and influence over "the money," which is what we are talking about.

I am personally skeptical of the "forced savings" plans because they become an asset a willful spender can borrow against if he is looking for money. It ain't the "sero balance," I fear, but the "negative net worth."

sagegrouse
'I think this could still be a viable thread 20 years from now'

nmduke2001
02-27-2013, 09:43 AM
I worked in Dearborn right out of college. My apartment complex was about a mile from the Detroit Lions training center in Allen Park. Due to the proximity, a ton of the Detroit Lions players lived in my complex. It was crazy to see all of the Bentleys and Ferraris in the parking spaces near mine. In 2003, they drafted Kevin Jones in the first round. He lived right next to me. He had a Bentley and Lamborghini before even playing a single down in the NFL. When the weather got bad, he bought a Land Rover.

FerryFor50
02-27-2013, 09:49 AM
I worked in Dearborn right out of college. My apartment complex was about a mile from the Detroit Lions training center in Allen Park. Due to the proximity, a ton of the Detroit Lions players lived in my complex. It was crazy to see all of the Bentleys and Ferraris in the parking spaces near mine. In 2003, they drafted Kevin Jones in the first round. He lived right next to me. He had a Bentley and Lamborghini before even playing a single down in the NFL. When the weather got bad, he bought a Land Rover.

Hey, at least he was practical. You ever try driving a Lambo in the snow?

slower
02-27-2013, 10:36 AM
To quote the great Patrick Ewing: "Sure we make a lot of money, but we spend a lot, too."

Okay, so obviously there are a slew of cultural and societal issues involved here, but it IS hard to muster much pity for these guys (while still realizing that they are, to some extent, exploited - although, lavishly rewarded for said exploitation). First-world problems.

theAlaskanBear
02-27-2013, 12:23 PM
I thought this was appropriate for this discussion. If you can listen to Jalen Rose for 47 minutes (or even just 20) I think this helps explain some of the financial dynamics behind athletes and celebrity. Talks about agents, managers, entourage, going out to clubs, lifestyle, etc.

At the end there is some introspection and talking about the realization of getting taken advantage.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=8992514

TruBlu
02-27-2013, 12:29 PM
To quote the great Patrick Ewing: "Sure we make a lot of money, but we spend a lot, too."


Or another great quote, this time from Willie Nelson explaining what happened to all of his money,after his tax difficulties left him broke (paraphrasing):

"I spent some of it on booze and women . . . the rest of it I wasted."

I can relate.

MartyClark
02-27-2013, 07:12 PM
I thought this was appropriate for this discussion. If you can listen to Jalen Rose for 47 minutes (or even just 20) I think this helps explain some of the financial dynamics behind athletes and celebrity. Talks about agents, managers, entourage, going out to clubs, lifestyle, etc.

At the end there is some introspection and talking about the realization of getting taken advantage.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=8992514

I can't listen to Jalen Rose for 2 minutes, let alone 47. I'm probably showing my blue collar, Chicago upbringing but when I hear entourage, going out to clubs and lifestyle, it doesn't evoke much sympathy.

theAlaskanBear
02-27-2013, 08:23 PM
I can't listen to Jalen Rose for 2 minutes, let alone 47. I'm probably showing my blue collar, Chicago upbringing but when I hear entourage, going out to clubs and lifestyle, it doesn't evoke much sympathy.

I didn't post it to evoke sympathy....I posted it because it is an informative interview of an actual NBA player talking about where some of the money goes. Jalen isn't looking for sympathy either, he is explaining a lot of the mistakes players make, and the different roles (friends, agents, managers, etc) people play around the athlete. I looked past listening to Jalen, and I learned a lot, and it confirmed a lot.

MartyClark
02-27-2013, 09:16 PM
I didn't post it to evoke sympathy....I posted it because it is an informative interview of an actual NBA player talking about where some of the money goes. Jalen isn't looking for sympathy either, he is explaining a lot of the mistakes players make, and the different roles (friends, agents, managers, etc) people play around the athlete. I looked past listening to Jalen, and I learned a lot, and it confirmed a lot.

I'm not commenting on your intent, I didn't think you were looking for sympathy. These guys make choices that the average person can't imagine. Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on entourages and nightclubs is a bad choice. I don't feel any sympathy or responsibility when they go broke.

sporthenry
03-01-2013, 01:16 AM
On topic but of a different nature. Apparently, Klay Thompson's parents handle his finances and when he got into the scuffle earlier this week, he got a reduction in his allowance. Funny but it is nice to see. Reminds me of when Kyrie's dad was so involved with Kyrie.

http://believethehypenba.com/2013/02/28/klay-thompsons-dad-takes-away-his-allowance/