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JasonEvans
02-22-2013, 01:05 PM
Much like their list of players, there are a lot of memories in this list. (http://espn.go.com/ncb/feature/video/_/page/Top75moments/ncaa-75-college-basketball)

73. Scotty Thurman's jumper over Tony Lang's fingernails. Of note, the pic SI has for this moment is not the picture of the shot. Whaaat!?!
70. Bob Hugging hugging Da'Sean Butler after his knee injury in the 2010 semi-finals.
68 and 67. The Duke-Indiana game in 2002. No mention is made of Bruce Benedict failing to see Boozer's arms getting held as he attempted the game-winning shot.
62. Duke's 2010 title over Butler putting K into a tie with Adolph Rupp for 2nd most national titles.
61. Cal beating Duke as frosh Jason Kidd outplays senior Bobby Hurley.
57. The Duke-Butler game again, this time ESPN actually honors the last-second shot by Heyward that hit rim but missed. If it goes in, this jumps to #1 on the list.
52. "UConn upsets Duke" in the 1999 National Championship game. Yeah, because it was a huuuuge upset that the #2 team in the land (which was #1 for several weeks late in the season) actually won the title. Shocking! Grrrrrrr.
48. Perrvis Ellison's big game for the 1986 national title. More grrrrrrr!
46. UNLV destroys us in the 1990 national title game. This was not a moment, it was a 2 hour beatdown.
42. Duke's comeback from 22 points down to beat Maryland in the 2001 semi-finals. Suck on that Terps!
26. "Special" - If you do not know what this is, you are not a true Duke fan.
25. Duke's upset of UNLV in the 1991 national semi-finals. I feel like ESPN is picking games more than moments.
20. Two #15 seeds win on the same day, Norfolk St over Mizzu and Lehigh beating...
14. Fred Brown passes the ball to James Worthy. Not a Duke moment, but you gotta love Carolina making the list for a boneheaded play that gave them a title. I fully expect we will see another of these a few spots higher up the rankings.
8. Bo Kimble shoots hit FTs left-handed. Has nothing to do with Duke or the ACC... but this was a truly special moment.
6. Chris Webber calls timeout, giving UNC another national title. By the way, think of the scandal if Michigan had won and the NCAA had to strip them of the title a few years later for all the nasty stuff going on with the Fab Five!
5. Michael Jordan's jumper to win the 1982 title. I am convinced this is only a special moment because of who Jordan would go on to become. Frankly, it pales in comparison to make other game-winners in tourney history if it were not for the guy taking the shot.
4. Magic vs. Bird, the 1979 title game. Hugely important game, but is there really a "moment" here?
3. All-Black Texas Western wins the 1966 National Title against the all-White Kentucky team. Thank goodness Duke lost the national semi-final to Kentucky!
2. Lorenzo Charles dunks Derrick Whittenberg's missed 35-footer... and Jimmy V looks for someone to hug.
1. You know what it is... never a doubt in anyone's mind what the greatest moment in college hoops history is. 2.3 seconds...

-Jason "day-um, that list was full of Duke!" Evans

loran16
02-22-2013, 01:22 PM
Surprised no Houston-Louisville (Phi Slamma Jamma v Doctors of Dunk) from the Final 4. NC State didn't make that game irrelevant in history.

AncientPsychicT
02-22-2013, 01:22 PM
2.3 seconds...

Uhhh Jason? JASON?! JASON?!?!?!



It's 2.1 seconds

Go to the 41 second mark. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1NwW3GCn7k)

-bdbd
02-22-2013, 02:10 PM
Thanks Jason. I really enjoyed that.

All you need to know about ESPN's "perspective" can be summarized in "Moment #57" : Describing Butler's last second, half-court desperation heave as a "sad moment" when it barely dribbled of the front of the rim. At least they recognized the result as K's 4th Natty, though pointing out that "there's still a small sea between him and #1 Wooden..." , but that recognition comes 5 slots later, of course...

I'm still pretty torqued over their retelling of "Moment #67" when Boozer apparently simply "missed" an easy shot from under the basket with 4 seconds left.

I saved my best for last though. Look at "moment number 45." This one even ESPN gets right: Highlightling 1957 and UNC's FIRST National Championship. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE! :rolleyes:

brevity
02-22-2013, 02:19 PM
6. Chris Webber calls timeout, giving UNC another national title. By the way, think of the scandal if Michigan had won and the NCAA had to strip them of the title a few years later for all the nasty stuff going on with the Fab Five!

I believe UNC would accept that forfeited title, and that Duke fans would mock them for now having 2 bogus championships.

luvdahops
02-22-2013, 02:23 PM
Much like their list of players, there are a lot of memories in this list. (http://espn.go.com/ncb/feature/video/_/page/Top75moments/ncaa-75-college-basketball)

73. Scotty Thurman's jumper over Tony Lang's fingernails. Of note, the pic SI has for this moment is not the picture of the shot. Whaaat!?!
70. Bob Hugging hugging Da'Sean Butler after his knee injury in the 2010 semi-finals.
68 and 67. The Duke-Indiana game in 2002. No mention is made of Bruce Benedict failing to see Boozer's arms getting held as he attempted the game-winning shot.
62. Duke's 2010 title over Butler putting K into a tie with Adolph Rupp for 2nd most national titles.
61. Cal beating Duke as frosh Jason Kidd outplays senior Bobby Hurley.
57. The Duke-Butler game again, this time ESPN actually honors the last-second shot by Heyward that hit rim but missed. If it goes in, this jumps to #1 on the list.
52. "UConn upsets Duke" in the 1999 National Championship game. Yeah, because it was a huuuuge upset that the #2 team in the land (which was #1 for several weeks late in the season) actually won the title. Shocking! Grrrrrrr.
48. Perrvis Ellison's big game for the 1986 national title. More grrrrrrr!
46. UNLV destroys us in the 1990 national title game. This was not a moment, it was a 2 hour beatdown.
42. Duke's comeback from 22 points down to beat Maryland in the 2001 semi-finals. Suck on that Terps!
26. "Special" - If you do not know what this is, you are not a true Duke fan.
25. Duke's upset of UNLV in the 1991 national semi-finals. I feel like ESPN is picking games more than moments.
20. Two #15 seeds win on the same day, Norfolk St over Mizzu and Lehigh beating...
14. Fred Brown passes the ball to James Worthy. Not a Duke moment, but you gotta love Carolina making the list for a boneheaded play that gave them a title. I fully expect we will see another of these a few spots higher up the rankings.
8. Bo Kimble shoots hit FTs left-handed. Has nothing to do with Duke or the ACC... but this was a truly special moment.
6. Chris Webber calls timeout, giving UNC another national title. By the way, think of the scandal if Michigan had won and the NCAA had to strip them of the title a few years later for all the nasty stuff going on with the Fab Five!
5. Michael Jordan's jumper to win the 1982 title. I am convinced this is only a special moment because of who Jordan would go on to become. Frankly, it pales in comparison to make other game-winners in tourney history if it were not for the guy taking the shot.
4. Magic vs. Bird, the 1979 title game. Hugely important game, but is there really a "moment" here?
3. All-Black Texas Western wins the 1966 National Title against the all-White Kentucky team. Thank goodness Duke lost the national semi-final to Kentucky!
2. Lorenzo Charles dunks Derrick Whittenberg's missed 35-footer... and Jimmy V looks for someone to hug.
1. You know what it is... never a doubt in anyone's mind what the greatest moment in college hoops history is. 2.3 seconds...

-Jason "day-um, that list was full of Duke!" Evans

Having been there in person, I would dispute the characterization of #61. Hurley had 32 points (including 6 threes), 9 assists and 2 steals versus just 1 turnover in his final game as a Blue Devil. Kidd may have stuffed the stat sheet more - 11 points, 14 assists, 8 boards and 4 steals, but also 4 TOs - but that hardly constitutes outplaying Hurley. The guy who really killed us that night was not Kidd but Lamond Murray, who scored 28 points from all over the floor with Grant and/or Tony Lang draped all over him, and had 10 boards to boot. Lang went scoreless and Cherokee Parks went out with a bum ankle late in the first half, so we really had only 3 viable options on offense - Hurley and the Hills. Cal went up big early in the second half before Grant and Hurley went absolutely nuts bringing us back, I believe cutting the lead to one late but never quite getting over the hump.

Reilly
02-22-2013, 02:46 PM
... 1999 ... it was a huuuuge upset that the #2 team in the land (which was #1 for several weeks late in the season) actually won the title ....

What was the spread of that game? What are the largest spreads in a championship game where the underdog won? What was Houston favored over NCSU ... what was G'town favored over Villanova?

I consider 1999 a pretty big upset. UConn was good ... Duke was a juggernaut head and shoulders above the field. I looked at the "SRS" for the #1 ranked team at www.sports-reference.com from 1997 to 2012. The 1999 Duke team had an SRS of 34 ... so, 10 points better than the 1999 UConn team per that simple rating system. The 34 is the highest SRS number for any team from 1997 to 2012. The 2001 Duke team had a 32. No other #1 teams had an SRS in the 30's during that time period, and most were around 25. Under that system, Duke ended up #1 in 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2010.

mr. synellinden
02-22-2013, 02:56 PM
What was the spread of that game? What are the largest spreads in a championship game where the underdog won? What was Houston favored over NCSU ... what was G'town favored over Villanova?

I consider 1999 a pretty big upset. UConn was good ... Duke was a juggernaut head and shoulders above the field. I looked at the "SRS" for the #1 ranked team at www.sports-reference.com from 1997 to 2012. The 1999 Duke team had an SRS of 34 ... so, 10 points better than the 1999 UConn team per that simple rating system. The 34 is the highest SRS number for any team from 1997 to 2012. The 2001 Duke team had a 32. No other #1 teams had an SRS in the 30's during that time period, and most were around 25. Under that system, Duke ended up #1 in 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2010.

Tat stretch from 1998 - 2004 should have/could easily have been another final four run - like 5 in 7 years. The 1998 loss in the elite 8 is still, in my mind, the worst (by that I mean, for me, the most upsetting) loss in the Coach K era. Up 18 with 8 minutes to go with a trip to the Final Four on the line. That team would have rolled to the National Championship, just like Kentucky did.
1999 is, in my view, the most talented and dominant team of the Coach K era - and maybe ever at Duke, even topping 1986 and 2001 (and the SRS numbers seem to bear that out). A hair below 1998 in terms of heartbreaking-ness of a loss. 2002 should have been another Final Four year and would have been but for a foul not being called on Boozer. With those two games, we would have had 5 final fours in 7 years (98, 99, 01, 02, 04) - and we easily could have had 3 or 4 championships during that run. In terms of talent, that was K's Golden Era, even more so than the late 80s to mid 90s run.

SoCalDukeFan
02-22-2013, 03:10 PM
Dean Smith getting tossed out of a Final Four game.

SoCal

rsvman
02-22-2013, 03:23 PM
Tat stretch from 1998 - 2004 should have/could easily have been another final four run - like 5 in 7 years. The 1998 loss in the elite 8 is still, in my mind, the worst (by that I mean, for me, the most upsetting) loss in the Coach K era. Up 18 with 8 minutes to go with a trip to the Final Four on the line. That team would have rolled to the National Championship, just like Kentucky did.
1999 is, in my view, the most talented and dominant team of the Coach K era - and maybe ever at Duke, even topping 1986 and 2001 (and the SRS numbers seem to bear that out). A hair below 1998 in terms of heartbreaking-ness of a loss. 2002 should have been another Final Four year and would have been but for a foul not being called on Boozer. With those two games, we would have had 5 final fours in 7 years (98, 99, 01, 02, 04) - and we easily could have had 3 or 4 championships during that run. In terms of talent, that was K's Golden Era, even more so than the late 80s to mid 90s run.

Agreed. That 1999 team was amazing. If they played UConn ten times they would have beat them at least 7 or 8. Every game that season, my son had to go to bed before the games were over, and the next morning he would ask what happened. I would always say "We lost." Then he would laugh and say, "No they didn't," and I would admit that they had, indeed, won. On the morning after the national championship game, I told him the same thing, "we lost." He said, "No they didn't," and it broke my heart to have to tell him that this time I really meant it. They really HAD lost.

And forget the 2002 Indiana no-call, the 2004 no-call on Redick in the lane was the most egregious. Had that been called, we would've beat UConn, and then all that was left for the Natty was to beat a Hewitt-coached Georgia Tech team.

But this is all water under the bridge. As someone said, "Abandon all hope of improving your past."

JasonEvans
02-22-2013, 03:57 PM
What was the spread of that game? What are the largest spreads in a championship game where the underdog won? What was Houston favored over NCSU ... what was G'town favored over Villanova?

According to Wiki...


Biggest point-spread upsets in NCAA Championship Game history:

Connecticut +9.5 over Duke, 7774, in 1999
Villanova +9 over Georgetown, 6664, in 1985
Kansas +8 over Oklahoma, 8379, in 1988
North Carolina State +7.5 over Houston, 5452 in 1983
Texas Western +6.5 over Kentucky, 7265 in 1966

That said, UConn had been #1 in the rankings most of the season, ahead of even Duke. And came into the Final Four as the #3 ranked team.

-Jason

Reilly
02-22-2013, 04:28 PM
... UConn had been #1 in the rankings most of the season ... came into the Final Four as the #3 ranked team ...

As a general proposition, when a team has been ranked #1 for a majority of the year, and is ranked #3 in the country going into the tournament, it would be shocking to call them winning the championship a huge upset. But specifically for 1999, when Duke -- per the computers -- was the strongest team in a generation, and was a 10-point favorite per the computers, and a 9.5 favorite per Vegas ... that's a pretty big upset. The fact that a team with an SRS of 24 won the championship is not the issue -- that's the same as Kentucky had in 2012. What was unprecedented, and made it an upset, is that they beat this once in a generation juggernaut.

JasonEvans
02-22-2013, 06:39 PM
As a general proposition, when a team has been ranked #1 for a majority of the year, and is ranked #3 in the country going into the tournament, it would be shocking to call them winning the championship a huge upset. But specifically for 1999, when Duke -- per the computers -- was the strongest team in a generation, and was a 10-point favorite per the computers, and a 9.5 favorite per Vegas ... that's a pretty big upset. The fact that a team with an SRS of 24 won the championship is not the issue -- that's the same as Kentucky had in 2012. What was unprecedented, and made it an upset, is that they beat this once in a generation juggernaut.

Yup, I have trouble arguing with that. The 1999 team was a beatdown waiting to happen most nights. Coming into the Final 4, they had played a grand total of 4 games all year where they did not win by 10 or more points. Their games were regularly over by halftime.

-Jason "I still say that is the best Duke team of the K era, just slightly ahead of 1992, 1986, and 2001" Evans

sagegrouse
02-22-2013, 07:07 PM
1999 is, in my view, the most talented and dominant team of the Coach K era - and maybe ever at Duke, even topping 1986 and 2001 (and the SRS numbers seem to bear that out). .

I agree about the strength of the 1999 Devils, until the team got to St. Pete. I thought there was, umm...., a lack of focus in both Final Four games. and, if you are going to take a game or two off, please don't make in during the Final Four.

sagegrouse

DeweyDevil
02-23-2013, 12:38 AM
I skimmed through the list. As a native Philadelphian I was appalled that St. Joseph's upset of #1 DePaul in 1981 didn't make ESPN's list of top 75 NCAA Tournament Moments.

Mabdul Doobakus
02-23-2013, 12:51 AM
Thanks Jason. I really enjoyed that.

All you need to know about ESPN's "perspective" can be summarized in "Moment #57" : Describing Butler's last second, half-court desperation heave as a "sad moment" when it barely dribbled of the front of the rim. At least they recognized the result as K's 4th Natty, though pointing out that "there's still a small sea between him and #1 Wooden..." , but that recognition comes 5 slots later, of course...

I'm still pretty torqued over their retelling of "Moment #67" when Boozer apparently simply "missed" an easy shot from under the basket with 4 seconds left.

I saved my best for last though. Look at "moment number 45." This one even ESPN gets right: Highlightling 1957 and UNC's FIRST National Championship. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE! :rolleyes:

To be fair, if I were a neutral sports fan, or even if I were slightly pulling for Duke--but not a Dukie--I would have been sad that shot didn't go in. It would have probably bumped the Laettner shot from the #1 spot on that poll and may have been the defining sports play of the decade. The fact that we're still talking about that shot 3 years later says a lot. It has to be the most famous missed beyond half court shot of all time. Because I can't even think of another one.

Agree with you on the Boozer play, though. I felt the same way when reading that.

NashvilleDevil
02-23-2013, 05:42 AM
26. "Special" - If you do not know what this is, you are not a true Duke fan.

1. You know what it is... never a doubt in anyone's mind what the greatest moment in college hoops history is. 2.3 seconds...


If you do not know that there were 2.1 seconds on the clock you are not a true Duke fan. :)

House G
02-23-2013, 10:57 AM
If you do not know that there were 2.1 seconds on the clock you are not a true Duke fan. :)

Perhaps this has been posted before, but it is an interesting take on the science of Laettner's shot:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=ny5YsQD62dw

1 24 90
02-23-2013, 03:05 PM
Just watched CBS Top 10 Champs That Never Were Special and I'm a little shocked that 1999 Duke didn't make the Top 10.

10 - 1988 Oklahoma
9 - 1974 UCLA
8 - 1974 Maryland
7 - 1966 Kentucky
6 - 1984 UNC
5 - 1975 Indiana
4- 1985 Georgetown
3- 1983 Houston
2- 1957 Kansan with Wilt/1959 WVU with Jerry West/1959 Cincinnati with Bill Russell

At least Duke figured into #1 in a great way - 1991 UNLV

Thoughts?

brevity
02-23-2013, 03:53 PM
Just watched CBS Top 10 Champs That Never Were Special and I'm a little shocked that 1999 Duke didn't make the Top 10.

10 - 1988 Oklahoma
9 - 1974 UCLA
8 - 1974 Maryland
7 - 1966 Kentucky
6 - 1984 UNC
5 - 1975 Indiana
4- 1985 Georgetown
3- 1983 Houston
2- 1957 Kansan with Wilt/1959 WVU with Jerry West/1959 Cincinnati with Bill Russell

At least Duke figured into #1 in a great way - 1991 UNLV

Thoughts?

I agree that the 1984 UNC team was never special. (See bolded.) I disagree with the rest.

Anyone who makes a top 10 list with a three-way tie at #2 should not be making lists. I can understand pairing the 1959 teams, but throwing in 1957 Kansas makes no sense. So now Houston at #3 is really #5. Meanwhile, two 1974 teams occupy two places. Why not just make a top 12 list, then?

Tripping William
02-23-2013, 03:56 PM
Just watched CBS Top 10 Champs That Never Were Special and I'm a little shocked that 1999 Duke didn't make the Top 10.

10 - 1988 Oklahoma
9 - 1974 UCLA
8 - 1974 Maryland
7 - 1966 Kentucky
6 - 1984 UNC
5 - 1975 Indiana
4- 1985 Georgetown
3- 1983 Houston
2- 1957 Kansan with Wilt/1959 WVU with Jerry West/1959 Cincinnati with Bill Russell

At least Duke figured into #1 in a great way - 1991 UNLV

Thoughts?

Did Bill Russell have to sit out a year by transferring from SanFran to Cincy?

hurleyfor3
02-23-2013, 04:11 PM
"Top 10 Champs That Never Were Special" has two interpretations.

1 24 90
02-23-2013, 04:41 PM
Just watched CBS Top 10 Champs That Never Were Special and I'm a little shocked that 1999 Duke didn't make the Top 10.

10 - 1988 Oklahoma
9 - 1974 UCLA
8 - 1974 Maryland
7 - 1966 Kentucky
6 - 1984 UNC
5 - 1975 Indiana
4- 1985 Georgetown
3- 1983 Houston
2- 1957 Kansan with Wilt/1959 WVU with Jerry West/1959 Cincinnati with Bill Russell

At least Duke figured into #1 in a great way - 1991 UNLV

Thoughts?

Wow - I messed up this post pretty good. Anyway, special shouldn't be capitalized and Oscar Robertson played at UC. I wasn't alive then!

vick
02-23-2013, 05:09 PM
Just watched CBS Top 10 Champs That Never Were Special and I'm a little shocked that 1999 Duke didn't make the Top 10.

10 - 1988 Oklahoma
9 - 1974 UCLA
8 - 1974 Maryland
7 - 1966 Kentucky
6 - 1984 UNC
5 - 1975 Indiana
4- 1985 Georgetown
3- 1983 Houston
2- 1957 Kansan with Wilt/1959 WVU with Jerry West/1959 Cincinnati with Bill Russell

At least Duke figured into #1 in a great way - 1991 UNLV

Thoughts?

I didn't watch this program, but assuming this was a ranking of great teams that didn't win the title, wouldn't the 1973 NC State team that missed the tournament due to probation, but was undefeated, surely be in the discussion? Somewhat before my time but seems like they would be included based on what I know.

NashvilleDevil
02-23-2013, 07:10 PM
I didn't watch this program, but assuming this was a ranking of great teams that didn't win the title, wouldn't the 1973 NC State team that missed the tournament due to probation, but was undefeated, surely be in the discussion? Somewhat before my time but seems like they would be included based on what I know.

They didn't say the requirements during the show but I would guess tournament eligibility was one of them.

FerryFor50
02-23-2013, 07:14 PM
Just watched CBS Top 10 Champs That Never Were Special and I'm a little shocked that 1999 Duke didn't make the Top 10.

10 - 1988 Oklahoma
9 - 1974 UCLA
8 - 1974 Maryland
7 - 1966 Kentucky
6 - 1984 UNC
5 - 1975 Indiana
4- 1985 Georgetown
3- 1983 Houston
2- 1957 Kansan with Wilt/1959 WVU with Jerry West/1959 Cincinnati with Bill Russell

At least Duke figured into #1 in a great way - 1991 UNLV

Thoughts?

No Fab 5?

NashvilleDevil
02-23-2013, 07:16 PM
No Fab 5?

I'm sure Jalen Rose is busy filming a rebuttal.

sagegrouse
02-23-2013, 07:33 PM
Just watched CBS Top 10 Champs That Never Were Special and I'm a little shocked that 1999 Duke didn't make the Top 10.

10 - 1988 Oklahoma
9 - 1974 UCLA
8 - 1974 Maryland
7 - 1966 Kentucky
6 - 1984 UNC
5 - 1975 Indiana
4- 1985 Georgetown
3- 1983 Houston
2- 1957 Kansan with Wilt/1959 WVU with Jerry West/1959 Cincinnati with Bill Russell

At least Duke figured into #1 in a great way - 1991 UNLV

Thoughts?

Mostly horse hockey. For example, Duke was better than Kentucky in 1966 and lost in the semis only because Bob Verga was sick as a dog and only scored four points.

1974 Maryland? The stuff of legend in that such a good team did not make the tournament, losing in OT to eventual champ NC State in the ACC finals. But both State and UCLA were better than Maryland IMHO (where the H is silent).

1984 UNC? Whiskey Tango Uniform???? UNC looked unbeatable early, but then Kenny Smith got injured, and they were not the same team, even after he returned. In fact, I saw Duke beat UNC and MJ in the ACC semis in G'bo that year.

Indiana 1975? And why is Indiana on the list? UCLA edged Kentucky in the finals, and I know that Indiana went undefeated and won the next year.

I tend to agree with Georgetown, Houston, and Kansas -- although Georgetown had won the previous year, which certainly salves the wound.

West Virginia? The Mountaineers were famous for being highly ranked and losing their first round game, as against Canisius. The only time WVU advanced in the tournament back then was the year it lost to Cal in the finals. I think the world of West and wished he had won, but Cal was deserving.

Oscar? I can't remember all the details of the tournament in his time, so I don't know if we should lament something or not.

UNLV in 1991? Got beat fair and square by a great Duke team. And besides, Tark was borderline corrupt and the Rebels had won the previous year.

sagegrouse

NashvilleDevil
02-23-2013, 07:42 PM
Oscar? I can't remember all the details of the tournament in his time, so I don't know if we should lament something or not.


sagegrouse

UC went to the Final Four in '59 and '60 with Oscar and never made it to the title game. They won titles in '61 and '62 and got beat by Loyola (IL) in the title game in '63.