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DBFAN
02-18-2013, 07:49 PM
Mods feel free to move this wasn't sure if it belonged here or not

Can someone give me a brief Synopsis of what is going on with all of this NCAA investigation and Emmert. I got lost with this a long time ago

Chard
02-18-2013, 09:15 PM
The NCAA released the results of an external review. They fired a few people, one resigned. NCAA is moving forward with their investigation.

It is a circus. With DBR's stance on the NCAA well known, I'm not sure why there isn't more coverage here.

Details at the Miami Herald:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/02/18/3241012/external-review-some-ncaa-staffers.html

Read more about it here:

http://blog.allcanes.com/

http://blog.allcanes.com/donna-shalala-statement-on-ncaa

This is about to get very, very interesting.

Jim3k
02-18-2013, 09:36 PM
Another, from the AP: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ncaa-acknowledges-missteps-miami-case

From this story, it looks like the attorney, Maria Elena Perez, may have had a conflict of interest--one which Emmert needed to address before the NCAA could hit the re-start button on the Miami investigation. If the story is accurate, then legal ethics are at stake.

moonpie23
02-18-2013, 09:41 PM
would new folks possibly DO something about the unc situation?

miramar
02-18-2013, 09:45 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/sports/ncaa-ousts-julie-roe-lach-as-vice-president-of-enforcement.html

I have to say that Shalala has a good point in the Miami Herald article when she says that the entire investigation appears to be tainted, not to mention way overdue. Shalala's comments are obviously self serving, but I don't think that the NCAA can get away with with firing one person and then simply eliminating some of the evidence. The situation is too complicated for them to claim no harm no foul.

DBFAN
02-19-2013, 07:41 AM
I guess what confuses me is Miami itself. Have they been cleared of all wrongdoing?? Seems weird to me that Miami is yelling at the NCAA I do understand that the NCAA oversteps and is usually on some type of power trip, but I think most if us are aware that nothing legitimate ever happens at the U

DBFAN
02-19-2013, 07:44 AM
Still suspicious of how Haith got off without even a slap on the wrist. Tie that with the fact that he left abruptly 2 yrs ago from a team that he was building quite well, and my inner conspiracy theorist comes out

Klemnop
02-19-2013, 09:06 AM
Still suspicious of how Haith got off without even a slap on the wrist. Tie that with the fact that he left abruptly 2 yrs ago from a team that he was building quite well, and my inner conspiracy theorist comes out

This is the angle of UM's basketball season that is not being discussed enough, IMO. Haith and his two of his assistants have been protrayed as actively participating in a number of Shapiro's misdeeds, including funneling funds directly to players. Both Reggie Johnson and Durand Scott have sat out games for having been associated with misconduct. DeQuan Jones was suspended for an entire season.

Miami's success is a kind of good publicity for the ACC as it reinforces the idea (like FSU's winning the ACC Tourney last year) that there's more to the ACC than just Duke and UNC. But as the season progresses and the story (of their success) becomes more high profile...this is the angle that is going to be exposed more fully. As it should be. Should make, at the least, for an interesting Charles Barkley take during NCAA coverage. :)

There are still some coaches out there trying to play by the rules. Many of them not named Krzyzewski have a very difficult time getting talented kids to come to their schools when the competition is handing out cash (and strippers and whatever else was going on down in Miami, over at Ole Miss or up in Kentucky) like candy on Halloween.

I hope Miami gets the maximum punishment...and some focus appropriately put on the basketball team instead of just the storied football program.

Klem

Duke09
02-19-2013, 10:19 AM
I hope Miami gets the maximum punishment...and some focus appropriately put on the basketball team instead of just the storied football program.

Klem

A more reasonable take is that Miami should get the punishment that its misdeeds deserve. A strong Miami is good for the ACC. It's not clear the NCAA has much considering the main source is a ponzi scheme operator. And a reasonable person can conclude that 2 year bowl ban, 5 self imposed scholarship reduction, recruiting trip reduction, and 2.5 year investigation cloud that hurt recruiting fits the crime if it's really just dinners and drinks. We'll know more in the next few days.

Klemnop
02-19-2013, 10:31 AM
A more reasonable take is that Miami should get the punishment that its misdeeds deserve. A strong Miami is good for the ACC. It's not clear the NCAA has much considering the main source is a ponzi scheme operator. And a reasonable person can conclude that 2 year bowl ban, 5 self imposed scholarship reduction, recruiting trip reduction, and 2.5 year investigation cloud that hurt recruiting fits the crime if it's really just dinners and drinks. We'll know more in the next few days.

If I'm not mistaken these self-imposed sanctions are directly related to the football program. My point is that there should also be collateral punishment for the equally egregious (if not worse) infractions in basketball recruiting. Perhaps UM is willing to forgore the NCAA hoops tournament as well? I mean, they're all about self-imposing sanctions, right?

(Convenient to pass up the ACC Football Championship game...which would have been absolute waxing at the hands of FSU. And I'm sure those same UM fans were distraught to not get their trip to Nashville or Charlotte for a bowl game. In fact UM probably saved 1M by not having to eat the costs.)

Color me not impressed with Miami's stance nor caring that getting duly punished might adversely affect the conference. I'm all for a competitive conference...so long as we play on equal footing. Like UNC's phantom majors, Miami has been enjoying an uneven advantage. I'd be happy for a Death Penalty. And then the ACC can add an extra year on top of what the NCAA hands down for good measure. There's precedent: Check Clemson's punishment circa 1984.

toooskies
02-19-2013, 10:40 AM
A more reasonable take is that Miami should get the punishment that its misdeeds deserve. A strong Miami is good for the ACC. It's not clear the NCAA has much considering the main source is a ponzi scheme operator. And a reasonable person can conclude that 2 year bowl ban, 5 self imposed scholarship reduction, recruiting trip reduction, and 2.5 year investigation cloud that hurt recruiting fits the crime if it's really just dinners and drinks. We'll know more in the next few days.

When investigating a bunch of cheating deceivers, the only inside sources you'll ever get are cheating deceivers.

TexHawk
02-19-2013, 10:46 AM
Still suspicious of how Haith got off without even a slap on the wrist. Tie that with the fact that he left abruptly 2 yrs ago from a team that he was building quite well, and my inner conspiracy theorist comes out

This thing is far from over, and early leaks were showing that Haith was about to get smacked pretty hard (personally, not Miami). Then this whole ethical mess started, so it is possible that he skates. I doubt it, but it is possible.

Duke09
02-19-2013, 11:08 AM
Not sure if you watched the ACC Championship game, but FSU barely beat a barely bowl-eligible GA Tech team that Miami had previously beat. And Miami lost out on funds from the bowl game, which would have been greater than $1,000,000.

Anyone calling for the death penalty is stuck in the 1980s. Miami's punishment should fit the crime, but very very few people still at the university are involved. The punishments handed out to Scott and Reggie Johnson were mild (5 and 1 game, respectively I believe). Haith and the coaches should be punished and I applaud the NCAAs recent direction in hammering coaches less so than players not involve, like almost the entire football team at this point. The football players involved so far got between 1-4 games suspensions last season. These don't seem to suggest that Miami deserves the death penalty if you have read beyond the initial Yahoo article and followed the investigation. I know it sucks to get blown out by UM this year, but that doesn't justify wanting a penalty so out of sorts with the actual infractions, and Duke supporters should be wary of jumping to punishments without proof. We'll likely know more soon.

DukeAlumBS
02-19-2013, 12:22 PM
My friends,

Frank Haith now at Missouri, is pending NCAA investigation into what he did there. Saw that about a couple weeks ago.
I know the football team did not play bowl games the past 2 years.
But he has done quite a bit. It is more than beer and pocket money.
I understand that he paid 10K to a family to attract a player, which in itself very suspicious.
I know one of the players was given a year suspension. Was this for academic, or an NCAA infracton? Can someone give me insight on this suspension, I think Durant, IMO. I may be wrong. Was it academic, or an NCAA ruling?
It is my understanding that this will become of light in the future.
Does not change anything, IMO.
Cheating, buying, what have you. This Duke team with a strong Kelly would have done it this year.
I find it depressing in what I have seen in an academic institution so far.
The NCAA needs to be revamped. With new leaders, and a new plan that favors getting your degree! At 4 years!
This a sore spot of mine. Especially after recent research of teams coming into the ACC, and their graduation rates.
Anyway, have a nice day my friends.

Jimmy

Klemnop
02-19-2013, 12:34 PM
Not sure if you watched the ACC Championship game, but FSU barely beat a barely bowl-eligible GA Tech team that Miami had previously beat. And Miami lost out on funds from the bowl game, which would have been greater than $1,000,000.

Anyone calling for the death penalty is stuck in the 1980s. Miami's punishment should fit the crime, but very very few people still at the university are involved. The punishments handed out to Scott and Reggie Johnson were mild (5 and 1 game, respectively I believe). Haith and the coaches should be punished and I applaud the NCAAs recent direction in hammering coaches less so than players not involve, like almost the entire football team at this point. The football players involved so far got between 1-4 games suspensions last season. These don't seem to suggest that Miami deserves the death penalty if you have read beyond the initial Yahoo article and followed the investigation. I know it sucks to get blown out by UM this year, but that doesn't justify wanting a penalty so out of sorts with the actual infractions, and Duke supporters should be wary of jumping to punishments without proof. We'll likely know more soon.

Well, I'm not a Duke supporter so I will assume I am exempt from your direction. :)

FSU, who travels generally well (and among the top 3 within the ACC football schools) lost more than $500,000 on their trip to the ACC Championship game.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/florida-state-wins-acc-title-loses-almost-500-152308916--ncaaf.html

I'm going to make a logical leap, here, and say that Miami would have had a worse financial performance than that. Ironically, FSU fans would have traveled better had the opponent been Miami - not GT - while we can assume that UM's fan support is flat, regardless the opponent.

FSU's result against GT is pointless for this discussion. GT has proven to give lots of teams problems on any given day. Head-to-Head in Miami FSU had already outclassed the 'Canes and there is no reasonable person who would have favored UM in a rematch. So, I say again, one of Miami's self-imposed sanctions was to avoid making a trip to Charlotte which likely would have cost their athletic department in excess of $500,000 to play a game against their arch-rival that they would have been a huge underdog in. Pardon me if that's a very convenient scenario for Miami.

Whatever bowl revenue that Miami gave up for post-season...I'm guessing (and it is only a guess) would have been offset by yet another loss to the athletic department's budget for unsold tickets and other forced commitments.

Miami's current basketball team has an average age of +23 years old. So, yes, punishing THIS year's UM basketball team would be entirely appropriate for transgressions committed under Frank Haith. This is, essentialy, the team that Frank Haith (and his assistants and Shapiro) bought. I especially like the picture of Shapiro 'creepin a night club in South Beach with two UM Assistan Hoops coaches looking on.
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/31355941
A picture is worth a thousand words. I mean, c'mon, Chris Collins is regularly throwing down with boosters at strip clubs while schmoozing up AAU coaches, right?

I do not advocate the Death Penalty in this case, so I will remove my tongue from my cheek in retracting that part of my comment. However I firmly stand by my request that the ACC add an additional year of sanctions to whatever sanctions are imposed by the NCAA in keeping with past behavior. The only way that the ACC can keep its moral supremacy and maintain its spotless reputation is to insure that member institutions are held to a higher standard than the NCAA itself would commend. As John Swofford was AD at UNC during the time that UNC drove for "bonus" sanctions against Clemson I am sure that this will appeal to his past-demonstrated sense of righteousness.

http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2012/3/23/2898373/where-are-the-extra-unc-penalties-ask-the-acc

Chard
02-19-2013, 01:16 PM
Miami has been cooperating with the NCAA since they learned of the possible infractions. Miami went to the NCAA. OSU, Southern Cal and UNC all chose to conduct themselves in a manner that ultimately did more harm. Miami learned from that and has been a partner with the NCAA to find out what happened. Miami has self-imposed sanctions that have hindered the entire athletic program. Miami knows that they have done wrong and they have paid dearly. Missing out of bowl games isn't just about prize money. It is about extra practice time, extra game experience and extra exposure to recruits. When trying to rebuild a football program, those things are invaluable.

The Miami Herald has put together a timeline of the NCAA inquiry (http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2013/02/a-timeline-of-the-ncaas-inquiry-into-um-shapiro-his-lawyer-and-the-conduct-of-the-enforcement-staff.html). Just further evidence that in my opinion the NCAA is a corrupt institution trying to justify the very existence of itself in order to continue the river of money coming.




I understand that he paid 10K to a family to attract a player, which in itself very suspicious.
I know one of the players was given a year suspension. Was this for academic, or an NCAA infracton? Can someone give me insight on this suspension, I think Durant, IMO. I may be wrong. Was it academic, or an NCAA ruling?
It is my understanding that this will become of light in the future.

The NCAA needs to be revamped. With new leaders, and a new plan that favors getting your degree! At 4 years!
This a sore spot of mine. Especially after recent research of teams coming into the ACC, and their graduation rates.
Anyway, have a nice day my friends.

Jimmy

What you think you know is incorrect. It was DeQuan Jones and he was reinstated after a 10 game suspension (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L5mKS5mDTIMJ:www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/college/miamis-dequan-jones-goes-from-year-long-suspension/nL2rb/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us). If you care to actually read about the situation instead of inferring things based on what you heard you may actually know something closer to the truth.

The convicted felon Shapiro states that he paid $10K to get DeQuan to sign. So far, there still is no evidence to corroborate this claim.


According to Shapiro, former Hurricanes' assistant Jake Morton asked him for $10,000 to secure the commitment of then-recruit Jones in 2008. Shapiro, a former UM booster and convicted felon, told Yahoo! Sports that he did not think Jones was aware of the transaction.

Two days before the start of this season, UM announced that Jones would not play this year as the school and NCAA continued their joint investigation into Shapiro's charges.

Jones was never ruled ineligible by UM or suspended for accepting impermissible benefits by the NCAA, as was the case with eight players on the Hurricanes' football team. Jones was allowed to continue practicing.

His situation would have sounded very familiar if Shabazz had signed with Duke and not UCLA.

You shouldn't worry about Miami bringing the graduation rate down as they've surpassed many of the pre-expansion members' graduation rates.

You can believe some of the drivel that has been posted in this thread or you can go out and read the information and educate yourself. It is up to you.

Duke09
02-19-2013, 01:26 PM
As far as the basketball team is concerned and the 10k for DeQuan Jones, Jones was initially suspended indefinitely and then re-instated for the 2nd half of the season. So no, no one was suspended for the entire year. Moreover, the NCAA found that they were wrong in this instance and reinstated Jones immediately as soon as Jones got a lawyer., which no one saw coming. Furthermore, Jones ins't on the team, having graduated.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/college/miamis-dequan-jones-goes-from-year-long-suspension/nL2rb/

The Reggie Johnson 1 game suspension was due to something that was uncovered in their investigation, but unrelated to Shapiro, by most measures. It is unclear what that actually was, but I believe it is related to travel of his family to games.
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2012/03/durand-scott-reinstated-by-ncaa-but-must-serve-5-more-games-worth-of-suspension.html

Reggie and Scott served their punishment last year and they were not linked to their recruitment. Again, Miami football players that we know too somewhere between $100 and $1500 from Shapiro were suspended between 1 and 4 games last year, or 1/12th-1/3 of the season. Reggie was suspended 1/30th.

Again, I implore you to find all the details on this investigation. It's completely possible the NCAA has dragged this out for 2 years because what they've found has been small potatoes compared to what they thought they'd find.

DukeAlumBS
02-19-2013, 01:55 PM
My friends,

I agree about the NCAA and its concern for "student/athletes."
The situation has to be fixed! The NCAA has to fixate on the "student / athlete."
Coach K has a good starting point, a 2 year and get away with one and done.
My idea is simple. You bring an athlete to your school. You offer him a full ride/room/board. And top this off with a stipend of 500-1500 a month.
You have him sign a contract, with lawyer present. To do this very thing.With the school and himself.And parents if not of age.
If this does not work out, he does military time or governemnt job for 4 years!
The stipend is generous! I feel a lot will not agree!
Schools have to change their goals to favor the STUDENT!!!

Have a nice day my friends,

Jimmy

Chard
02-19-2013, 02:25 PM
Jay Bilas has commentary with Mike & Mike (http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8961706) and Stephen Smith and Skip Bayless have a discussion (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8962058)about the Miami investigation, Jay's remarks and Emmert & the NCAA in general.

Klemnop
02-19-2013, 02:40 PM
Miami has self-imposed sanctions that have hindered the entire athletic program. Miami knows that they have done wrong and they have paid dearly. Missing out of bowl games isn't just about prize money. It is about extra practice time, extra game experience and extra exposure to recruits. When trying to rebuild a football program, those things are invaluable.

Obviously I'm trying to be argumentative, mostly for fun/sport. But since there appear to be some posters in this thread with more information that has been available in the general media I would be interested to know what, exactly, these wide-ranging self-imposed sanctions are which have "hindered the entire athletic program"?

Ceasing to use cocaine-infused launches into the bay on multi-million dollar yachts attended by half-nekid womenz as a recruiting tool does not constitute a self-imposed sanction. :cool:

Given the implication of Frank Haith and (at least) two of his assistants in recruiting improprieties, what exactly has The U done which has negatively impacted the basketball program. As I recall, Haith left Miami of his own accord - so it's not even as if the University could claim that it was proactive in resolving the stiuation...just the happy benefactor of the chief perpetrator deciding to move on. All this while UM was making the NCAA aware of the situation as soon as they knew there were problems? Really? I mean, I would have expected that Haith would have been summarily dismissed given the import of wrongdoing associated with his tenure. I guess we'll wait to see what the NCAA formally "charges" Haith with. Perhaps it will be nothing. Or perhaps the NCAA will be wrong. (A lot of people will be wrong, in that case, including me.)

I'm reminded of this:
Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?
Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
Croupier: Your winnings, sir.
Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
[aloud]
Captain Renault: Everybody out at once!

DBFAN
02-19-2013, 04:22 PM
I started this thread because I am really interested in the absence of punishment for Miami. Partly because I am a sore loser ;) and also everything about this team seems strange. It didn't occur to me until last week how very old this team is. Even if players stayed all 4 yrs this would still be an OLD team, heck their average age if I'm not mistaken at 23, is older than Vegas 90-91. Talk about a strange coincidence. (Note sarcasm). It is also very suspicious how a team even down a player could lose to St. Leo, Florida Gulf Coast, and Indiana State, yet somehow just magically come together to obliterate Duke and UNC. While I can see a team getting better and becoming a good team that just sends up a red flag. Now this is just a conspiracy on my part, but I will admit its a pretty good one :)

Jim3k
02-19-2013, 08:37 PM
When investigating a bunch of cheating deceivers, the only inside sources you'll ever get are cheating deceivers.

If you apply this thinking to Shapiro, as I think we must, it means whatever he has accused Miami of doing is not to be believed. So he says he gave $10 grand to Jones. He's angry because his Ponzi scheme has landed him in prison and he's bankrupt, to boot. Many of his Ponzi victims are connected to Miami and some testified against him. Beyond that, as I understand it, there's no evidence that Jones or his family ever got the 10Gs.

So, aside from Shapiro's claim, is there any other evidence? Must the NCAA accept the testimony of this vengeful convicted felon?

Answer: If they do, they are the poorest analyst of evidence on the planet

Durham Thunder
02-19-2013, 10:50 PM
Miami has forgone two post seasons in college football, among other things.

Any chances that the NCAA feels the need to ban them from post season play in basketball this year?

I acknowledge this will sound off-base, and intriguing at the same time. Consider this: In the past three years, the NCAA has dealt with many issues, primarily including Ohio State and Penn State. In these instances, the NCAA has been anything BUT vigilant. It'll be interesting to see how "justice" takes form.

blazindw
02-19-2013, 11:15 PM
The U received the notice of allegations earlier this evening, and the NCAA is claiming, among other things, lack of institutional control.

President Shalala's reponse: to go Rambo on the NCAA. This statement (http://www.miami.edu/index.php/news/releases/statement_from_president_donna_e_shalala-2/) was sent to me and all other Miami alumni a couple hours ago. The U is ready to fight all the allegations. In the minds of most alums, the worst that should happen should be time served (with all the self-imposed bowl bans and scholarship reductions). But, the main reaction from most of us is to be pleased at President Shalala's response and decision to fight all the allegations, especially given the NCAA's improprieties.

throatybeard
02-19-2013, 11:20 PM
The Sistine ceiling of SI covers:

3192

Eighteen years ago and still astoundingly relevant.

(Apologies to BlazinDW)

SoCalDukeFan
02-20-2013, 12:07 AM
The U received the notice of allegations earlier this evening, and the NCAA is claiming, among other things, lack of institutional control.

President Shalala's reponse: to go Rambo on the NCAA. This statement (http://www.miami.edu/index.php/news/releases/statement_from_president_donna_e_shalala-2/) was sent to me and all other Miami alumni a couple hours ago. The U is ready to fight all the allegations. In the minds of most alums, the worst that should happen should be time served (with all the self-imposed bowl bans and scholarship reductions). But, the main reaction from most of us is to be pleased at President Shalala's response and decision to fight all the allegations, especially given the NCAA's improprieties.

U of Miami athletics was a corrupt place run a fat hypocrite. The NCAA is little better but Miami needs to go down.
How about 30 scholarships.


SoCal

Olympic Fan
02-20-2013, 12:24 AM
Miami has forgone two post seasons in college football, among other things.

Any chances that the NCAA feels the need to ban them from post season play in basketball this year?

I acknowledge this will sound off-base, and intriguing at the same time. Consider this: In the past three years, the NCAA has dealt with many issues, primarily including Ohio State and Penn State. In these instances, the NCAA has been anything BUT vigilant. It'll be interesting to see how "justice" takes form.

Just to be clear -- that's not going to happen. It will be months before Miami has to appear before the committee to answer the allegations ... then a few more months before any NCAA penalties come down.

The only way there could be a penalty to keep Miami basketball out of the NCAA Tournament THIS YEAR would be if it was self-imposed (as Miami self omposed bowl bans in each of the last two seasons). I guarnatee you that's not going to happen. Miami people understand that this season is a one-shot deal for their basketball program, Miami loses fur starters and five of their top six players off this team ... maube six of six if Larkin goes pro early (I don't think he should, but it could be the Kendall Marshall effect -- a point guard leaves when al his targets leave). Larranaga has one so-so redshirt coming back next season (Garrius Adams) and two mid-level recruits (neither is RSCI top 100).

Miami is going to go from a top 5 national team to a bottom five ACC team next season -- they ain't self-imposing any postseason bans this season.

Klemnop
02-20-2013, 07:15 AM
Just to be clear -- that's not going to happen. It will be months before Miami has to appear before the committee to answer the allegations ... then a few more months before any NCAA penalties come down.

The only way there could be a penalty to keep Miami basketball out of the NCAA Tournament THIS YEAR would be if it was self-imposed (as Miami self omposed bowl bans in each of the last two seasons). I guarnatee you that's not going to happen. Miami people understand that this season is a one-shot deal for their basketball program, Miami loses fur starters and five of their top six players off this team ... maube six of six if Larkin goes pro early (I don't think he should, but it could be the Kendall Marshall effect -- a point guard leaves when al his targets leave). Larranaga has one so-so redshirt coming back next season (Garrius Adams) and two mid-level recruits (neither is RSCI top 100).

Miami is going to go from a top 5 national team to a bottom five ACC team next season -- they ain't self-imposing any postseason bans this season.

Exactly my point related to the "self imposed" ban on post-season play in football. It wasn't a sacrifice. In some ways it was a benefit. What good is a penalty that does not have any "penal" to it? I say again, if UM were serious about making amends for past transgressions they would self-impose an NCAA ban on THIS team THIS year. THESE are the players that were involved and THIS is the year that the penalty would cut deepest. THAT is the way you show leadership toward reform. Imposing a ban next year (on a bad team that has no shot to make the tournament any way) is punishing the WRONG people with something that doesn't even amount to punishment.

Go back and look again at the photo of the two UM Coaches standing watch over Shapiro as he works a "nightclub". Or take a look at the shot of Shalala and Haith accepting a check from Shapiro for $50k. Sweet Mercy!
http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news?slug=ys-frank_haith_allegations

Durham Thunder
02-20-2013, 07:37 AM
I say again, if UM were serious about making amends for past transgressions they would self-impose an NCAA ban on THIS team THIS year. THESE are the players that were involved and THIS is the year that the penalty would cut deepest.

While that penalty WOULD be the truest definition of penalization in this case, I disagree that it would be appropriate. This business of the NCAA is like Game of Thrones: "win or die", nothing is as it seems. If Ohio State is legitimately penalized by suspending players for games against Akron, and the University of Ohio, Miami has CERTAINLY served its time sitting out 2 post seasons.

More importantly, ARE these "the players" that were involved? Because the basketball players at Miami have always been shunned from significance.

miramar
02-20-2013, 08:26 AM
While I certainly won't defend UM, the charge seems somewhat ironic at this point.

If I were at the NCAA, I would let them off with time served, principally as a way of diverting attention from myself. And then I would start looking at the steroid allegations against the baseball team:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/02/13/ap-university-of-miami-tests-baseball-team-for-hgh/1918543/

BD80
02-20-2013, 08:47 AM
I hope the ncaa has some real juicy evidence on Miami and lowers the boom ...

giving uncch the death penalty. dadgummit!

DukeAlumBS
02-20-2013, 08:47 AM
My friends,

It is my understanding that all the steroid testing have been negative to date.
Time served, I disagree with this. The football team has done the past 2 years. Not playing bowl games.
It is what has happend with the basketball team, under their old coach that is being evaluated .
Either way, again I am not a fan of the NCAA/Academic Institutions to date, look at what is going on. A change has to be made. I had a suggestion in my prior note here, would not get any favor. But I think a good idea.
I want Kelly healthy. So we beat this team, and win the ACC as well.
It can happen.
This team, has been suspicious under Frank Haith IMO.

Anyway, you all have a nice day,

Jimmy

Durham Thunder
02-20-2013, 12:29 PM
I hope the ncaa has some real juicy evidence on Miami and lowers the boom ...

giving uncch the death penalty. dadgummit!

You abruptly change gears, so I'm not sure what you're saying. With that said, if the NCAA didn't give Penn State the death penalty, that just further proves the NCAA realizes it truly did kill SMU back in the 1980's. Thus, they want to avoid it at all costs.

Miami gave up 2 post seasons...Scholarship reductions I think the only logical punishment thats left.

miramar
02-20-2013, 01:31 PM
This team, has been suspicious under Frank Haith IMO.

Anyway, you all have a nice day,

Jimmy

The NCAA has given the Notice of Allegations to Jake Morton, a former UM assistant who is now director of basketball operations at Western Kentucky. The NCAA alleges some improper recruiting practices as well as a cash payment of $6,000 to Morton.

While most of the attention has been on UM football, this could get interesting for basketball as well.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/02/20/3243991/ex-miami-hurricanes-basketball.html

Atlanta Duke
02-20-2013, 01:53 PM
While I certainly won't defend UM, the charge seems somewhat ironic at this point.

Joe Nocera of the New York Times shares your sentiments regarding the NCAA and its investigation of Miami

Although the N.C.A.A. allegations have not been made public, the Associated Press reported that they include that most dreaded of accusations, “lack of institutional control.” The technical term for this is “the pot calling the kettle black.” :D

http://nocera.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/the-miami-mess-unraveled/

SoCalDukeFan
02-20-2013, 01:54 PM
The U received the notice of allegations earlier this evening, and the NCAA is claiming, among other things, lack of institutional control.

President Shalala's reponse: to go Rambo on the NCAA. This statement (http://www.miami.edu/index.php/news/releases/statement_from_president_donna_e_shalala-2/) was sent to me and all other Miami alumni a couple hours ago. The U is ready to fight all the allegations. In the minds of most alums, the worst that should happen should be time served (with all the self-imposed bowl bans and scholarship reductions). But, the main reaction from most of us is to be pleased at President Shalala's response and decision to fight all the allegations, especially given the NCAA's improprieties.

When the NCAA investigated USC and leveled severe punishment including the loss of 30 scholarships the committee was led by then Miami AD Paul Dee. The main source of information was testimony from convicted felons. Testimony disputed by an assistant coach. Dee also said that even if USC did not know that Reggie Bush's parents who lived 100 miles away were getting benefits, they should have. He also said high profile players deserve high profile compliance. The problems at USC football involved one player and his family.

The issues at Miami involve multiple players over multiple years. Dee has passed away but when this first came out he said he had no idea it was going on. One of Shalala's main arguments is that the NCAA is taking the way of someone who made a fortune lying, very similar to what her AD did in the USC case. Something like this going on for so many years and so many players and apparently at least two sports does show a lack of control.

Unlike USC, Miami, to their credit, imposed some actions on themselves. To be consistent with USC they need to lose at least 30, probably 40 football; scholarships and two more years of bowls, plus let their players transfer. And basketball needs to get hit as well.

SoCal

cruxer
02-21-2013, 12:35 PM
Voluntary testimony from anyone given to the NCAA is one thing, and can be weighed on its merits and veracity. Where the NCAA has crossed the line in the UM case is to compel testimony for its investigation by colluding with a convicted felon (who happens to be the main accuser) and his attorney in a totally unrelated federal court case. Any evidence gleaned in that manner is unusable and any investigator who used that methodology is suspect. It's not unlike the lead investigator's own, unrelated attempted murder charge putting the entire case against Oscar Pistorius in jeopardy.

Even if there is other "untainted" evidence, the charge of lack of institutional control is laughable given the amount of institutional control the NCAA has displayed during this investigation. As Jay Bilas has merrily pointed out on twitter again and again, UM administration and coaches could use the exact same defense that Emmert and company have used to exonerate themselves.

-c

SoCalDukeFan
02-21-2013, 03:30 PM
Voluntary testimony from anyone given to the NCAA is one thing, and can be weighed on its merits and veracity. Where the NCAA has crossed the line in the UM case is to compel testimony for its investigation by colluding with a convicted felon (who happens to be the main accuser) and his attorney in a totally unrelated federal court case. Any evidence gleaned in that manner is unusable and any investigator who used that methodology is suspect. It's not unlike the lead investigator's own, unrelated attempted murder charge putting the entire case against Oscar Pistorius in jeopardy.

Even if there is other "untainted" evidence, the charge of lack of institutional control is laughable given the amount of institutional control the NCAA has displayed during this investigation. As Jay Bilas has merrily pointed out on twitter again and again, UM administration and coaches could use the exact same defense that Emmert and company have used to exonerate themselves.

-c

The late Paul Dee, former Miami AD, led the USC investigation. He said that even if USC did not know about Reggie Bush's parents, then they should have. So by his logic Miami should certainly have known.

The NCAA is a cesspool. But Miami athletics need to punish more severely than USC. 40 scholarships and 2 more years of bowl bans.

SoCal