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throatybeard
02-18-2013, 07:41 PM
Since there's a rather snotty backlash against the use of the word 'vigil 'lately, I'm employing 'watch.'

If I'm not mistaken, Duke entered the season with 1971 wins in the history of the program, trailing only UK, KU, and UNC. At 22-3, with any sort of decent finish to the season, we would pass the mark this year. 1993. Maybe you go 4-2 to end the RS, maybe you make the ACCT final, maybe you win a couple in the NCAAT. Right about there.

What's amazing about this is that, as everyone seems to know, 1000 occurred in spring semester 1974, and 1500 occurred in fall semester 1996(-97). So that was 22 to 23 seasons. If this happens this year, it will be just 16, 16.5 seasons since #1500.

Mike Krzyzewski is a stone cold killa, people.

I once calculated how long he'd have to coach to have half of Duke's program wins. I'm too lazy to re-do it. I'm guessing early 70s since his birth.

DU82
02-18-2013, 08:41 PM
Since there's a rather snotty backlash against the use of the word 'vigil 'lately, I'm employing 'watch.'

If I'm not mistaken, Duke entered the season with 1971 wins in the history of the program, trailing only UK, KU, and UNC. At 22-3, with any sort of decent finish to the season, we would pass the mark this year. 1993. Maybe you go 4-2 to end the RS, maybe you make the ACCT final, maybe you win a couple in the NCAAT. Right about there.

What's amazing about this is that, as everyone seems to know, 1000 occurred in spring semester 1974, and 1500 occurred in fall semester 1996(-97). So that was 22 to 23 seasons. If this happens this year, it will be just 16, 16.5 seasons since #1500.

Mike Krzyzewski is a stone cold killa, people.

I once calculated how long he'd have to coach to have half of Duke's program wins. I'm too lazy to re-do it. I'm guessing early 70s since his birth.

Math's easy. Take 1993, subtract his current number of wins (at Duke), which is 876. That means everybody else has 1117. 1117-863= 254. Yep, nine or ten years, meaning age 75 or 76.

throatybeard
02-18-2013, 08:44 PM
Math's easy. Take 1993, subtract his current number of wins (at Duke), which is 876. That means everybody else has 1117. 1117-863= 254. Yep, nine or ten years, meaning age 75 or 76.

Ah. So maybe not likely. Who knows, the dude is stubborn.

876? OTOH, both he and Boeheim will be past Dean Smith in "wins at one school" within the next few weeks.

When I'm old, I'll be lecturing young Duke fans about how Dean Smith was actually relevant at one time. But not yet.

msdukie
02-18-2013, 10:08 PM
Ah. So maybe not likely. Who knows, the dude is stubborn.

876? OTOH, both he and Boeheim will be past Dean Smith in "wins at one school" within the next few weeks.

When I'm old, I'll be lecturing young Duke fans about how Dean Smith was actually relevant at one time. But not yet.

Post of the month.

K getting to 880 at Duke has always been one of the most important marks to me, especially since Carolina fans continue to hold on to the fact that K's total wins are not as important since Dean still has more at UNC than K has at Duke...

If K can pass Dean in ACC titles and total ACC wins (and the numbers used DO count ACC Tournament) plus get to another Final Four, none of Dean's numbers in anything will equal or exceed K.

I also love how Barry Jacobs on pregame a few weeks ago referred to Dean as "generally accepted as the second best basketball coach in ACC history..." or something close to that quote.

throatybeard
02-18-2013, 10:26 PM
Post of the month.

K getting to 880 at Duke has always been one of the most important marks to me, especially since Carolina fans continue to hold on to the fact that K's total wins are not as important since Dean still has more at UNC than K has at Duke...

If K can pass Dean in ACC titles and total ACC wins (and the numbers used DO count ACC Tournament) plus get to another Final Four, none of Dean's numbers in anything will equal or exceed K.

I also love how Barry Jacobs on pregame a few weeks ago referred to Dean as "generally accepted as the second best basketball coach in ACC history..." or something close to that quote.

Well, yeah, but Dean stole the four corners from some guy at Louisburg College, and supposedly invented pointing at someone who made an assist. My grandchildren are going to wet their pants over that, man. Pointing. It's a huge innovation. Legendary. Keep-away and pointing.

In all seriousness, Dean's conference winning percentage is sick. K won't pass it no matter what, unless he goes 13-3 every year until like 2025. But I look forward to the conference (no-tourney) and conference (with tourney) wins records falling. I think I would argue that overall winning percentage was easier for Dean.

As for comparing the men in the most impassionate way possible, I'm not sure what to do. I think it's fairly clear that our guy benefits from a longer conference schedule. The 60s seem like a week decade in the ACC, but the 70s were a strong one. I'm not sure what to say about what has passed since Dean retired. Well, let's just wait till K passes all the totals. Then no one can talk anything to us without some sort of explanation.

Olympic Fan
02-19-2013, 12:45 AM
Well, yeah, but Dean stole the four corners from some guy at Louisburg College, and supposedly invented pointing at someone who made an assist

Never heard Louisburg College being involved in the Four Corners mythology ...

Dean himself says he tweaked the delay that he learned from Bob Spear, his boss at Air Force ... and Spear has said that he got it from Babe McCarthy at Mississippi State. The only difference is that McCarthy used to run it with Bailey Howell, a good-passing big man, in the middle. Chuck Noe (who was Eddie Cameron's second choice to replace Hal Bradley in 1959 -- he hired Bubas instead) ran a delay game at Virginia Tech that was almost a carbon copy of the Four Corners. He called it the Mongoose. When Bucky Waters adopted it in the early 1970s, he told reporters that it was the Mongoose, not the Four Corners -- just to tweak the idea that Dean had invented it. I've also heard -- but can't confirm -- that Hall of Fame coach John McLendon ran an identical delay game at North Carolina Central in the late 1940s and early 1950s (which would be before Spear, McCarthy, Noe or Smith).

To his credit, Dean never claimed to have invented the Four Corners ... he claimed only to have refined it. Dean claims in his autobiography that teams had long used the "four corners" against the zone press ... he discovered that it worked equally well against man-to-man pressure. THAT was his big innovation. He does, however, take full credit for inventing the tired signal.

As for winning percentages, it's interesting -- K has a higher winning percentage at Duke (.788) than Dean had at UNC (.776). Dean does have a better ACC winning percentage (.728) than K (.706). Oddly, it's based on homecourt dominance -- K actually has a better ACC road winning perentage (.617 to .591). Dean gets his edge at home (.838 to .795). K also has a better percentage in ACC Tournament play (.746 to .716). His NCAA Tournament winning percentage of .767 to significantly better than Dean's .707.

It will be nice when K gets the four wins he needs to pass Dean for wins at one school ... but he's long settled the debate as to the best ACC coach.

Ichabod Drain
02-19-2013, 07:23 AM
In all seriousness, Dean's conference winning percentage is sick. K won't pass it no matter what, unless he goes 13-3 every year until like 2025. But I look forward to the conference (no-tourney) and conference (with tourney) wins records falling. I think I would argue that overall winning percentage was easier for Dean.


14-4?
15-3?
18-0!

throatybeard
02-19-2013, 11:24 AM
Never heard Louisburg College being involved in the Four Corners mythology ...I've also heard -- but can't confirm -- that Hall of Fame coach John McLendon ran an identical delay game at North Carolina Central in the late 1940s and early 1950s (which would be before Spear, McCarthy, Noe or Smith).

I thought McLendon also had a stint at Louisburg. I may have this wrong.

<checks wiki>

Yeah, I do, but he was at a bunch of schools:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McLendon

Olympic Fan
02-19-2013, 11:35 AM
I thought McLendon also had a stint at Louisburg. I may have this wrong.

<checks wiki>

Yeah, I do, but he was at a bunch of schools:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McLendon

Very unlikely that a black coach would work at a white college in North Carolina in that era.

McLendon didn't ... he came directly from Kansas (where he learned the game for Dr. James Naismith directly) to the North Carolina College of Negroes (later to become NCCU). Actually, he coached a few years of high school in between in the midwest before he got the job in Durham in the late 1930s. He was an assistant a couple of years and became head coach 9n 1941. After 1952, he left to coach at Hampton Institute a couple of years. Then he went to Tennessee A&I where he won three NAIA national championships. He led Tennesseee to coach the Cleveland Pipers in the old ABL. He was the first black to coach a pro team in any sport in America (hired by George Stienbrenner of all people). He coached at Kentucky State and Cleveland State in the '60s ... then finished up his career with the Denver Rockets (later the Nuggets) of the ABA.

Just curious ... is it possible you were confusiong Laurinburg Institute (a black prep school) with Louisburg College (a white -- at least in that era -- junior college)?

throatybeard
02-19-2013, 11:39 AM
Just curious ... is it possible you were confusiong Laurinburg Institute (a black prep school) with Louisburg College (a white -- at least in that era -- junior college)?

Possibly. I get my small towns in North Carolina mixed up.

I want to write a biography of Dean Smith, to sell to Duke and State fans, just so I can title it Keep-away, pointing, and signalling that you're tired: the Dean Smith story.

rsvman
02-19-2013, 11:59 AM
Possibly. I get my small towns in North Carolina mixed up.

I want to write a biography of Dean Smith, to sell to Duke and State fans, just so I can title it Keep-away, pointing, and signalling that you're tired: the Dean Smith story.

Genius.

Put me down for a copy or two when it gets published.

Blue KevIL
02-19-2013, 06:32 PM
He was the first black to coach a pro team in any sport in America (hired by George Stienbrenner of all people).

Fritz Pollard is somehow always forgotten.
He became the co-coach of the Akron Pros in 1921 -- one year before the American Professional Football Association (APFA) renamed itself the National Football League.
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=242
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2124304

FanFair
02-19-2013, 07:05 PM
Possibly. I get my small towns in North Carolina mixed up.

I want to write a biography of Dean Smith, to sell to Duke and State fans, just so I can title it Keep-away, pointing, and signalling that you're tired: the Dean Smith story.


You have omitted the fact that Dean invented the "flop" in the 70's. UNC has kept statistics on charges since that decade.