MBB: Duke vs VaTech Pre-Game & In-Game Thread

[davekay1971]

Yeah. It's not too early to wash the taste of the Maryland game out of our mouths by moving on to our next game.

We've got some time to prepare to take on the Hokies at Blacksburg. Virginia Tech is a team that has found ways to lose basketball games. But, even though they've lost, they've managed to put some scares into people. They went to Raleigh yesterday and lost a heartbreaker to the Wolfpack. They went to Chapel Hill February 2 and should have finished off the TarHeels before letting them off the hook. They are team that can beat you, but they haven't managed to close the deal this season.

What to worry about with VT?

1) Eric Green. 25+ ppg this season. We know him well, he knows us well. He's hard to stop. He drives well, finishes well, hits mid-range shots well, and shoots well from deep. He's the complete package as a scoring guard. It's just a long night guarding him.

2) That other guy who gets hot because he's so amped up to play Duke and goes off for his best night ever. We seem to run into those guys a lot. Marshall Wood had that game yesterday, so hopefully he got it out of his system. Jarrell Eddie can get hot and go on a streak from outside.

3) It's a road game, it will be packed, it's their Super Bowl, the usual...

What to take advantage of?
1) Lots. VT doesn't have a dominant rebounding game, inside game, defensive game. They don't have a great set-up player (Green averages just north of 4 apg, and he's their best scorer). They have trouble pounding the ball inside for scores. If Green can be contained, they're pretty much in deep trouble.

How to beat them?
1) Play Duke basketball. This is a team that we should have an advantage of at every position, with the exception of Green (and, if you consider our matchup there is Seth, you could call that a wash). If we play good defense, take care of the ball, and use good ball movement to get good looks for shooters, we should win. Should.

2) Mason. He had a bad game at Maryland. He should be ticked. He should want to absolutely dominate the next time he takes the court. He should be able to dominate VT's interior. Should.

3) Make Green have a looooong night. He's going to be running around, going off screens, dribble-driving, etc. Whoever is on him (I expect that will be a healthy mix of Tyler and Sheed) needs to stay in his face, and everyone else needs to look to help. If we can make Green inefficient, we have a big advantage everywhere else.

If this game was in Durham, you'd look at it as a good chance to get everything clicking after the Maryland game. It's in Blacksburg, so our guys are going to have to eat their Wheaties, put on their big girl panties, go in looking to establish dominance quickly, quiet the crowd, and win a game we should win to get rolling again.

[TruBlu]

OK, back to page 1 with this.

I haven't had the pleasure(?) of seeing a Va Tech game this year. Do they still employ Seth's Thug-Ball game plan? (Note to Seth: There is a reason your team had so many fouls before your team got off the bus.)

[Bob Green]

Do they still employ Seth's Thug-Ball game plan?

Yes! The VT - State game was way too physical. State shot 43 free throws. If the refs hold VT accountable, it will be okay.

[davekay1971]

Agreed with Bob. In the NCSU game, VT clearly looked to slow down State's offense and negate their talent advantage by roughing them up on defense. The refs did a pretty good job of holding VT accountable and State made a living at the free throw line...which they needed since their defense against VT was lousy at the other end. If the refs can get over their fear of being perceived as calling the game for Duke, our guys should get plenty of practice at the charity stripe. And, since Duke should be looking to get Mason going early, we can only hope Mason has one of his 10 of 12 games at the free throw line, not one of his 2 of 12 games!

The other question, when a team tries to disrupt your offensive flow the way VT does, is can guys make the open looks when they get them. I can only imagine how hard it is to nail the open 3 when you've spent all game getting bumped, clawed, and hacked and you finally get that one clean look without someone hanging onto you. Burying those, however, could be the difference between this game being tight vs it being a blowout.

[Reilly]

Having suffered through the 1995 season, and mindful of K's words over the years to not take things for granted -- and to celebrate successes along the way -- it can be fun to think about when we have clinched at least an NCAA at-large bid every year.

If win in Blacksburg on Thursday night, we'll move to 23-3 overall, and 10-3 in conference.

Even if we dropped our last five regular season games, and lost the first game in the ACCT, we'd be 23-9 overall, and have a 10-8 regular season conference record. With 9 overall losses, we'd at least be in the top 6 of the 12-team league in terms of fewest overall losses. Would that record (23-9, 10-8) be enough to get us in?

In the last ten years, here are the ACC teams with winning regular season conference records who did not get invited:

2012: Miami 9-7 (20-13)
2011: VT 9-7 (22-12); BC 9-7 (21-13)
2010: VT 10-6 (25-9)
2008: VT 9-7 (21-14)
2006: FSU 9-7 (20-10)

Maybe we've done enough already. We're 22-3, 9-3. If we lose out, we're 22-10, 9-9. Maybe just one more puts us pretty safely in the tourney. Just one more win, and we're assured of having single digit losses on selection Sunday. When VT was left out in 2010 with a winning conference record and single digit losses overall, they had the worst strength of schedule of anybody in the whole conference -- not a situation we'd be in.

[ChillinDuke]

Having suffered through the 1995 season, and mindful of K's words over the years to not take things for granted -- and to celebrate successes along the way -- it can be fun to think about when we have clinched at least an NCAA at-large bid every year.

If win in Blacksburg on Thursday night, we'll move to 23-3 overall, and 10-3 in conference.

Even if we dropped our last five regular season games, and lost the first game in the ACCT, we'd be 23-9 overall, and have a 10-8 regular season conference record. With 9 overall losses, we'd at least be in the top 6 of the 12-team league in terms of fewest overall losses. Would that record (23-9, 10-8) be enough to get us in?

In the last ten years, here are the ACC teams with winning regular season conference records who did not get invited:

2012: Miami 9-7 (20-13)
2011: VT 9-7 (22-12); BC 9-7 (21-13)
2010: VT 10-6 (25-9)
2008: VT 9-7 (21-14)
2006: FSU 9-7 (20-10)

Maybe we've done enough already. We're 22-3, 9-3. If we lose out, we're 22-10, 9-9. Maybe just one more puts us pretty safely in the tourney. Just one more win, and we're assured of having single digit losses on selection Sunday. When VT was left out in 2010 with a winning conference record and single digit losses overall, they had the worst strength of schedule of anybody in the whole conference -- not a situation we'd be in.

I'll take the bait.

I think we're in regardless.

Wins over UK, OSU, Minny, and UL may look less impressive (rankings-wise) than they did at the time, but it was hard for them to look any better. Those are still wins against at least 3 tournament teams (#10, #4, #6, and #3 seeds, respectively, according to Joe Lunardi as of 2/15). VCU is a #8, UNC is a #11, heck even Florida Gulf Coast is in his field.

Even if we lose out, I'm pretty sure we'd make it in. Squeak in - maybe, embarrassed - definitely. But I'm pretty sure we'd be in, unless all of the teams I listed above tank heading into the tournament also.

- Chillin

[UrinalCake]

This seems kind of silly to discuss, but when was the last time a team ended the season on a seven game losing streak and still made it in to the tournament? The closest I can think of is our 2006-2007 team that lost four straight, then won 4, then lost 3 heading into the NCAA's. But I think the recency bias would keep us out if we were to lose out from here.

[CDu]

Virginia Tech's two best players are pretty good. Green is a scoring machine: the nation's leading scorer, and very efficient at it too. He also does a little of everything for them, leading them in assists and steals. Eddie is a tall, versatile forward (starts at SF but can play PF too) who stretches the defense and can score off the dribble or with a jumper.

Aside from that, they aren't very good offensively. They have a big, physical, athletic big man (Raines), who has virtually no touch whatsoever. He can, however, bully his way to the basket for dunks. But if you force him to shoot it from more than 1 foot from the rim, it's likely to miss. Barksdale is similarly inept. Their backup PF (Wood - the guy with the flat top) is a skinny PF that thinks of himself as a 3pt shooter. And against State, that was accurate (he hit several big 3s). But for the season, he's only a 27% shooter. That's better than Brown, their SG who shoots 32% from the field and 22% from 3.

Defensively, they're physical. At home, that may work to their advantage. Raines played very well against Mason last year, and that was when Mason had his brother as backup. Raines could give Mason problems again with his size, strength, and athleticism. Brown will probably guard Curry (he is the guy that was assigned to chase Wood at State). He's aggressive and relentless, but he can be fooled into fouls if Curry is playing smart. Eddie will guard Sulaimon, and Green will guard Cook. They'll rotate Raines and Barksdale on Mason, and whoever is at PF (Barksdale, Wood, and Van Zegeren) will get the assignment on our PF.

So fortunately for us, they don't have a PF that should give our PFs trouble. Unfortunately for us, we don't have a PF that can take advantage of their primary weakness defensively.

I'd look for Curry to try to get Brown in foul trouble, and for Sulaimon to try to beat Eddie off the dribble. And of course, we'll see if Mason can get Raines in foul trouble. If Raines gets in trouble, the alternatives (Barksdale and Van Zegeren) are MUCH less effective.

[MCFinARL]

This seems kind of silly to discuss, but when was the last time a team ended the season on a seven game losing streak and still made it in to the tournament? The closest I can think of is our 2006-2007 team that lost four straight, then won 4, then lost 3 heading into the NCAA's. But I think the recency bias would keep us out if we were to lose out from here.

Agreed. Obviously the early wins against quality teams help with strength of schedule, but ten losses, seven of which were the last seven games, wouldn't look good to the selection committee. Pretty confident that won't happen, though.

[CDu]

Having suffered through the 1995 season, and mindful of K's words over the years to not take things for granted -- and to celebrate successes along the way -- it can be fun to think about when we have clinched at least an NCAA at-large bid every year.

If win in Blacksburg on Thursday night, we'll move to 23-3 overall, and 10-3 in conference.

Even if we dropped our last five regular season games, and lost the first game in the ACCT, we'd be 23-9 overall, and have a 10-8 regular season conference record. With 9 overall losses, we'd at least be in the top 6 of the 12-team league in terms of fewest overall losses. Would that record (23-9, 10-8) be enough to get us in?

In the last ten years, here are the ACC teams with winning regular season conference records who did not get invited:

2012: Miami 9-7 (20-13)
2011: VT 9-7 (22-12); BC 9-7 (21-13)
2010: VT 10-6 (25-9)
2008: VT 9-7 (21-14)
2006: FSU 9-7 (20-10)

Maybe we've done enough already. We're 22-3, 9-3. If we lose out, we're 22-10, 9-9. Maybe just one more puts us pretty safely in the tourney. Just one more win, and we're assured of having single digit losses on selection Sunday. When VT was left out in 2010 with a winning conference record and single digit losses overall, they had the worst strength of schedule of anybody in the whole conference -- not a situation we'd be in.

We'll win at home against VT and we'll beat BC at home. That alone would put us into the tournament, even if we lost all the others. Heck, I think we might (emphasis on might) get in even if we lost out from here. But we'd be sweating bullets. A 22-10 record (with 8 straight losses) would put us very much on the bubble. And 3 losses to bottom feeders (two at home) late in the season would look pretty bad. I'd put us at 50/50 at that point, as the recency bias would certainly work against us.

Of course, that's not going to happen. I assume we will win our two remaining home games against the bottom feeders. And that alone should put us in. We'd be 24-8 with lots of quality wins and only one bad loss (@Va Tech). That type of team would probably be a 5 or 6 seed, even with the late-season swoon.

And of course, I think we'll win more than just those two remaining home games. But as to the hypothetical, I'd say one more win gets us in. No more wins and we'd be a 50/50 proposition (just depending upon how much the committee weights our early-season success against our late-season catastrophe).

[CDu]

Agreed. Obviously the early wins against quality teams help with strength of schedule, but ten losses, seven of which were the last seven games, wouldn't look good to the selection committee. Pretty confident that won't happen, though.

It would actually be 8 straight losses (the last 7 regular season games plus the ACC tournament game).

[nchfries67]

Va Tech is going to get physical with us, so we need to get physical right back at them, with Green in particular. Rotate Sheed and Tyler on him all night and don't let anything come easy for him. Tyler has a great ability to frustrate his opponents. If we limit Green's scoring this should be a game we win easily. If we can't stop Green, there is a good chance this game will be tight the whole way. And hopefully Mason has a fire in his eyes and will refuse to be stopped. Haven't seen it out of him yet, but we also haven't seen him get beat like he did against Maryland. Hopefully that gets him going.

[Mhgraham]

This is a major statement game for us. We need to have a high level of intensity. Scoring will be there. The passion and fire needs to be exhibited from the tip. Maryland (with the home court) beat us on that aspect of the game. I expect the same thing at VT (being at home). We all know that every team wants to beat Duke, especially at home. It is marked on every team's schedule as the "Super Bowl". We are going to get everybody's BEST game. There should be no excuses by coming to play soft. By coming out with less fire, we are allowing the crowd to get into the game earlier than we want. This team continues to battle night in and night out without Kelly. I just want us to show a little more fire when we are playing away.

As for the game:

1. Contain Green. Because you are not going to stop him. Do it without picking up cheap fouls.
2. Plumlee should be pissed. Katz wrote "Maryland performance may have knocked him out of NPOY". Expect 22 and 12
3. More minutes for Murphy. I know he is still in the developmental stage, but he brings intensity and plays extremely hard.
4. Get Curry going early.
5. Lastly, play Duke Basketball. We gave up entirely too many FT's against Maryland. Less fouls, but keep the defensive pressure up to a high level.

Prediction: Duke 78, VT 69

[Kedsy]

And hopefully Mason has a fire in his eyes and will refuse to be stopped. Haven't seen it out of him yet...

Seriously? You haven't seen that out of him yet? What exactly would it look like?

Him getting 20 and 17 against a bruising Minnesota front line, or maybe 21 and 17 against Ohio State? How about 30 and 9 against NC State, or 32 and 9 against Wake? Or any of his fourteen double-doubles? I can't get over that Mason has one bad game and now he's not good any more.

[English]

We'll win at home against VT and we'll beat BC at home. That alone would put us into the tournament, even if we lost all the others. Heck, I think we might (emphasis on might) get in even if we lost out from here. But we'd be sweating bullets. A 22-10 record (with 8 straight losses) would put us very much on the bubble. And 3 losses to bottom feeders (two at home) late in the season would look pretty bad. I'd put us at 50/50 at that point, as the recency bias would certainly work against us.

Of course, that's not going to happen. I assume we will win our two remaining home games against the bottom feeders. And that alone should put us in. We'd be 24-8 with lots of quality wins and only one bad loss (@Va Tech). That type of team would probably be a 5 or 6 seed, even with the late-season swoon.

And of course, I think we'll win more than just those two remaining home games. But as to the hypothetical, I'd say one more win gets us in. No more wins and we'd be a 50/50 proposition (just depending upon how much the committee weights our early-season success against our late-season catastrophe).

Villanova in the '10-'11 season came down the stretch limping in a similar fashion--they lost 7 of their last 9 games (their two wins were at bottom-feeding Seton Hall and in OT at bottom-feeding Depaul). They lost in the first round of the Big East Tourney to a very middling South Florida team, and then got an 11-seed in the NCAAT before dropping the opener to 8-seeded Mason. I recall their situation being a 50-50 proposition on Selection Sunday. They had a handful of quality wins (beating at-the-time #25, #17, #3) but dropping some head scratchers during their collapse.

It's difficult for me to see Duke missing the NCAAT even if we did lose out...it's equally difficult for me to see Duke escaping the first weekend in that same scenario.

[mgtr]

If only we had Smilin' Ed McConnell here, he could say "Plunk your magic twanger, Froggie!" and Ryan would be OK and Seth's leg would hurt no more. Ah, for the good old days of radio -- miracles could happen - or at least seem to.

Younger posters -- don't even ask.

[Saratoga2]

I think the idea of covering Green with Rasheed and Tyler is the right move. They will make it harder on him but we can't expect him to be held way down. I was wondering whether Amile will have a role in this one. His length and rebounding might help us as much as Alex's hard work. Is VT big and physical or just physical?

[nchfries67]

Seriously? You haven't seen that out of him yet? What exactly would it look like?

Him getting 20 and 17 against a bruising Minnesota front line, or maybe 21 and 17 against Ohio State? How about 30 and 9 against NC State, or 32 and 9 against Wake? Or any of his fourteen double-doubles? I can't get over that Mason has one bad game and now he's not good any more.

I apologize if I made it seem like I was saying Mason wasn't good anymore. Mason is clearly one of the best players in the nation and has had plenty of great games against quality teams as you have just shown. I guess the fire I am talking about is kind that Tyler Thornton shows. I want to see Mason get angry. Then I want to see Mason use that anger to improve his play. Tyler is a great example of this. He gets angry and uses it to lock down on defense and get big stops for our team or hit a big shot. I can't say I've seen Mason get very angry, but that is just my opinion.

Once again, sorry if I made it seem that I think Mason is not a great player. I think Mason should be one of the favorites for NPOY and he is irreplaceable on this team. He had a bad game against Maryland and I fully expect him to put up the numbers that he has been all season. I just don't think he has shown much anger. Maybe he needs Patches O'Houlihan to throw a wrench at his family jewels.

[freshmanjs]

I apologize if I made it seem like I was saying Mason wasn't good anymore. Mason is clearly one of the best players in the nation and has had plenty of great games against quality teams as you have just shown. I guess the fire I am talking about is kind that Tyler Thornton shows. I want to see Mason get angry. Then I want to see Mason use that anger to improve his play. Tyler is a great example of this. He gets angry and uses it to lock down on defense and get big stops for our team or hit a big shot. I can't say I've seen Mason get very angry, but that is just my opinion.

Once again, sorry if I made it seem that I think Mason is not a great player. I think Mason should be one of the favorites for NPOY and he is irreplaceable on this team. He had a bad game against Maryland and I fully expect him to put up the numbers that he has been all season. I just don't think he has shown much anger. Maybe he needs Patches O'Houlihan to throw a wrench at his family jewels.

successful, winning basketball players have a range of personality types. contrast laettner, battier, scheyer, nolan, grant hill. I think the "get angry" type is probably in the minority among the leaders of our championship teams.

[tommy]

I apologize if I made it seem like I was saying Mason wasn't good anymore. Mason is clearly one of the best players in the nation and has had plenty of great games against quality teams as you have just shown. I guess the fire I am talking about is kind that Tyler Thornton shows. I want to see Mason get angry.

You're going to be waiting awhile. It's just not his personality, or the personality he displays outwardly. A guy can be supremely determined and completely committed without being angry. That emotion works for some guys, but not for others, and neither way is intrinsically better than the other, or more likely to lead to success.

[nchfries67]

successful, winning basketball players have a range of personality types. contrast laettner, battier, scheyer, nolan, grant hill. I think the "get angry" type is probably in the minority among the leaders of our championship teams.

Ok that is a good point. Maybe I'm being too hard on him. But anyway, back to the game. We need to limit Erick Green's scoring and get Mason established in the post early. I'm also interested to see how Coach K uses Hairston, Jefferson, and Murphy. I think the way he has utilized these three guys since Kelly's injury has been nothing short of incredible.

[DukieInBrasil]

Ok that is a good point. Maybe I'm being too hard on him. But anyway, back to the game. We need to limit Erick Green's scoring and get Mason established in the post early. I'm also interested to see how Coach K uses Hairston, Jefferson, and Murphy. I think the way he has utilized these three guys since Kelly's injury has been nothing short of incredible.

I think the gnashing of teeth lately of Mason's "decline", "slump" or being "exposed" are directly tied to this: when this team tries to force-feed Mason the ball early it has been met with mixed results, decidedly poor results lately. So, no, i don't think we need "establish Mason in the post early", what we need is to identify what the defense is giving us and exploit that. Sure, let Mason touch the ball early, but rather than having Mason force up bad shots just b/c he has to "establish" himself, i would hope that the coaching staff is trying its best to help Mason understand when is the right time to try to score and when to kick it back out. When Mason makes the most mistakes (ie., charges or getting the ball stolen while dribbling) seems to be when he is intent on scoring, to the exclusion of the rest of the offense. Mason seems to do much better when we get the ball to him in the offensive flow and he has the freedom to shoot or pass, but when he displays the need to score he performs much more poorly.
So, i would hope to see Quinn get the ball in the lane with more frequency and take it to the rim if no one stops him or dish to Mason if his man slides over to cut Quinn off, Sulaimon has also shown the skill to do this. Having Quinn pound the ball into the hardwood and make telegraphed passes to Mason in the post seems to be among our least effective offensive options, but Quinn passing to Mason while either Quinn or Mason are moving seems to work much better. I would also like to see Curry use his crafty moves to get jumpers/floaters in the lane early and then move out to the 3pt line later in the game. Mostly i just want to see our team take high quality shots that match their skill-sets and score with confidence.

[rocketeli]

I think this will be a physically rough game. VT is at home and will come out thugging it up and Duke can't pout or eye roll when they get mugged with no call, because it's going to happen. We have to give as good as we get and not back down. I also think Mason's game at Maryland may have had something to do with the "slight" ankle injury he suffered in the game or some other game before. The staff may have minimized it to try and avoid giving Maryland a scouting advantage or confidence boost. In general, although Mason is playing very well this year and is light years advanced from what he was as a freshman, I wonder if he isn't thinking too much about not fouling out. It's like he's playing the whole game as if he has four fouls. Every play it he's thinking "... is it worth it...should I go after him..." and that doesn't work, because it slows you down. Maybe the coaching staff (which of course knows what to do much better than I do) should consider telling him to just play, and his teammates will have to step up if he fouls out. After all, that might happen for reals some game and the practice would be good to have.

[dukelifer]

successful, winning basketball players have a range of personality types. contrast laettner, battier, scheyer, nolan, grant hill. I think the "get angry" type is probably in the minority among the leaders of our championship teams.

Jason Williams said he played best when he was angry - he said during the miracle minute- he was angry.

[Saratoga2]

I think the gnashing of teeth lately of Mason's "decline", "slump" or being "exposed" are directly tied to this: when this team tries to force-feed Mason the ball early it has been met with mixed results, decidedly poor results lately. So, no, i don't think we need "establish Mason in the post early", what we need is to identify what the defense is giving us and exploit that. Sure, let Mason touch the ball early, but rather than having Mason force up bad shots just b/c he has to "establish" himself, i would hope that the coaching staff is trying its best to help Mason understand when is the right time to try to score and when to kick it back out. When Mason makes the most mistakes (ie., charges or getting the ball stolen while dribbling) seems to be when he is intent on scoring, to the exclusion of the rest of the offense. Mason seems to do much better when we get the ball to him in the offensive flow and he has the freedom to shoot or pass, but when he displays the need to score he performs much more poorly.
So, i would hope to see Quinn get the ball in the lane with more frequency and take it to the rim if no one stops him or dish to Mason if his man slides over to cut Quinn off, Sulaimon has also shown the skill to do this. Having Quinn pound the ball into the hardwood and make telegraphed passes to Mason in the post seems to be among our least effective offensive options, but Quinn passing to Mason while either Quinn or Mason are moving seems to work much better. I would also like to see Curry use his crafty moves to get jumpers/floaters in the lane early and then move out to the 3pt line later in the game. Mostly i just want to see our team take high quality shots that match their skill-sets and score with confidence.

I have been pushing a revised strategy for the past couple of games for the very reasons you cite. What you recommend is sensible and in addition, use the other forward to slide into the lane and get a shot away when they overplay Mason. Amile looks like he could get points and maybe loosen the defense played on Mason.

[dukelifer]

I have been pushing a revised strategy for the past couple of games for the very reasons you cite. What you recommend is sensible and in addition, use the other forward to slide into the lane and get a shot away when they overplay Mason. Amile looks like he could get points and maybe loosen the defense played on Mason.

Need to get this back on the first page. It will take a big effort to win. Duke needs Rasheed to be aggressive throughout on O.. He will need to guard Green and Green is sneaky. If he get Rasheed in foul trouble - it will be long night. If Duke shoots well- not sure Va Tech can keep up. Duke needs to keep the crowd out of it.

[timmy c]

Need to get this back on the first page. It will take a big effort to win. Duke needs Rasheed to be aggressive throughout on O.. He will need to guard Green and Green is sneaky. If he get Rasheed in foul trouble - it will be long night. If Duke shoots well- not sure Va Tech can keep up. Duke needs to keep the crowd out of it.

I won't be surprised to see a healthy dose of Tiny Thor (Thornton) against Green tomorrow. Cook could see some minutes too. In fact that might switch every screen on Green accept for MP2.

[davekay1971]

I won't be surprised to see a healthy dose of Tiny Thor (Thornton) against Green tomorrow. Cook could see some minutes too. In fact that might switch every screen on Green accept for MP2.

I'm expecting to see Sheed and Tyler do the majority of the work on Green. Sheed takes pride in helping the team through defense, and seems to like taking on a challenging assignment. Quinn is vastly improved as a defender compared to last year, but he's probably our third best perimeter defender after Sheed and Tyler.

[cptnflash]

I apologize if I made it seem like I was saying Mason wasn't good anymore. Mason is clearly one of the best players in the nation and has had plenty of great games against quality teams as you have just shown. I guess the fire I am talking about is kind that Tyler Thornton shows. I want to see Mason get angry. Then I want to see Mason use that anger to improve his play. Tyler is a great example of this. He gets angry and uses it to lock down on defense and get big stops for our team or hit a big shot. I can't say I've seen Mason get very angry, but that is just my opinion.

Once again, sorry if I made it seem that I think Mason is not a great player. I think Mason should be one of the favorites for NPOY and he is irreplaceable on this team. He had a bad game against Maryland and I fully expect him to put up the numbers that he has been all season. I just don't think he has shown much anger. Maybe he needs Patches O'Houlihan to throw a wrench at his family jewels.

Mason can't play like Tyler, because we can't afford to have Mason get in foul trouble consistently. Tyler can use anger to fuel his aggressive play because he's a sub that only averages 20-22 minutes per game. He averages 4.7 fouls per 40 minutes. Mason averages 2.8 per 40. It needs to stay that way.

If Ryan was healthy and Marshall was ready to play 15-20 minutes per game, Mason could play angry. Unfortunately neither of those things is true.

[weezie]

Ehh, I always get a little a-scaredy of these games at vtech. It's such a horrendous dump of a place with miserable sight lines. It's where enthusiam goes to die.
It smells bad, too.

[gep]

I'm expecting to see Sheed and Tyler do the majority of the work on Green. Sheed takes pride in helping the team through defense, and seems to like taking on a challenging assignment. Quinn is vastly improved as a defender compared to last year, but he's probably our third best perimeter defender after Sheed and Tyler.

I like that Rasheed values defense. The underlined above immediately reminded me of Kobe and Coach K and the Olympics (I know, Rasheed is NOT Kobe... yet?). Anyway, Kobe told Coach K that he wanted to guard the best player on the opposing team... whoever that was.:cool: Takes pride in DEFENSE. I hope Rasheed stays 4 years...

[timmy c]

I like that Rasheed values defense. The underlined above immediately reminded me of Kobe and Coach K and the Olympics (I know, Rasheed is NOT Kobe... yet?). Anyway, Kobe told Coach K that he wanted to guard the best player on the opposing team... whoever that was.:cool: Takes pride in DEFENSE. I hope Rasheed stays 4 years...

At some point, probably after Duke cuts down the nets in Atlanta ;) , this will have to be its own thread.

[tommy]

OK so 2 questions relative to the Va Tech game. Note: I don't know the answer to either one. The first I feel like I should know. The second would require deep, deep research.

1. When is the last time Duke faced the nation's leading scorer? Who was it, and what team did he play for?

2. Which was the last team to break an eight game losing streak by beating Duke? When?

[vick]

OK so 2 questions relative to the Va Tech game. Note: I don't know the answer to either one. The first I feel like I should know. The second would require deep, deep research.

1. When is the last time Duke faced the nation's leading scorer? Who was it, and what team did he play for?

2. Which was the last team to break an eight game losing streak by beating Duke? When?

The first is probably Stephen Curry, January 2009 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290070150). Maybe there's one we played very early in the season who was the leader after that, but I think he's the last one who finished anywhere near the season champion, so he's my bet.

[DukeAlumBS]

My dear friends,

The simple fact is Kelly, is not there. He is a key component to this team.
The dynamics of the team changes quite frequently! When he is not there.
I made the comment in another post.
We got a 7 footer, who leads the team in 3 point shooting! His court savvy. His feel for the team, his defense. All is missed.
You all are missing somethings else, I feel very important. Kelly is also up for POY as well, until he went down!
We lost IMO our best player! KELLY!

Nice day my friends,

Go Duke!
Jimmy

[InSpades]

This seems kind of silly to discuss, but when was the last time a team ended the season on a seven game losing streak and still made it in to the tournament? The closest I can think of is our 2006-2007 team that lost four straight, then won 4, then lost 3 heading into the NCAA's. But I think the recency bias would keep us out if we were to lose out from here.

Villanova in 2011 entered the NCAAs as a #9 seed on a 5-game losing streak and proceeded to make it 6 straight w/ a loss to George Mason. Admittedly 4 of the losses were to ranked teams (and the other a 1-point loss in the 1st round of the BE Tournament). They were 16-1 and finished the year 21-12. Probably the biggest tank in recent years.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/222/year/2011/villanova-wildcats

[MCFinARL]

Ehh, I always get a little a-scaredy of these games at vtech. It's such a horrendous dump of a place with miserable sight lines. It's where enthusiam goes to die.
It smells bad, too.

Okay, but don't just give us the upside, tell us something bad about the place. ;)

[freshmanjs]

Villanova in 2011 entered the NCAAs as a #9 seed on a 5-game losing streak and proceeded to make it 6 straight w/ a loss to George Mason. Admittedly 4 of the losses were to ranked teams (and the other a 1-point loss in the 1st round of the BE Tournament). They were 16-1 and finished the year 21-12. Probably the biggest tank in recent years.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/222/year/2011/villanova-wildcats

2009-10 Texas is another example of an epic collapse. They were looking like a lock for a #1 seed through most of January and then really fell off a cliff. Started 17-0 and ended the regular season at 23-8 and a #8 seed. While they did sprinkle in a few wins, the collapse was one of the more stunning in recent years.

Texas 09-10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Texas_Longhorns_men's_basketball_t eam)

[Indoor66]

Okay, but don't just give us the upside, tell us something bad about the place. ;)

Yeah. What do you really think?

[Tripping William]

. . . . and although this still makes me smile every time, I just hope tonight's game doesn't come down to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuQ-dlhyfNc

[cptnflash]

Erick Green's numbers are astounding. If he weren't playing on such a terrible team, he'd be getting serious NPOY consideration. I have no idea how good he is defensively, but you can make the argument that he's been the best offensive player in college basketball this year. He combines excellent efficiency with a Jimmer-esque usage rate, draws tons of fouls, hardly ever turns the ball over (relative to how much he handles it), and even posts a very impressive assist rate, all while playing nearly ever minute of every meaningful game and being the focal point of every opponent's defensive game plan. I also love the fact that he has improved materially every year he's been in college, which pretty much guarantees that he's got a great work ethic. Players like him are what college basketball is all about.

So hats off to you, Erick Green. Well done sir.

That being said, I hope you go one for 20 tonight.

[throatybeard]

Didn't Alabama [Basketball] have a #1 team that really went in the gutter? Maybe while Gottfried was still there.

[sporthenry]

Erick Green's numbers are astounding. If he weren't playing on such a terrible team, he'd be getting serious NPOY consideration. I have no idea how good he is defensively, but you can make the argument that he's been the best offensive player in college basketball this year. He combines excellent efficiency with a Jimmer-esque usage rate, draws tons of fouls, hardly ever turns the ball over (relative to how much he handles it), and even posts a very impressive assist rate, all while playing nearly ever minute of every meaningful game and being the focal point of every opponent's defensive game plan. I also love the fact that he has improved materially every year he's been in college, which pretty much guarantees that he's got a great work ethic. Players like him are what college basketball is all about.

So hats off to you, Erick Green. Well done sir.

That being said, I hope you go one for 20 tonight.

I haven't seen much of Va. Tech and I know they've been in close games with people but it boggles my mind that you can have a guy out there who is putting up these numbers with the efficiency he is and they are last in the ACC with 2 wins. That makes me think that Va. Tech must be putting out a really, really weak line up without him. Like without Greene, they'd probably be bad in a lot of conferences. I'm sure this will be the kiss of death but I'm just not sure how they haven't won a few more games.

[DBFAN]

I haven't seen much of Va. Tech and I know they've been in close games with people but it boggles my mind that you can have a guy out there who is putting up these numbers with the efficiency he is and they are last in the ACC with 2 wins. That makes me think that Va. Tech must be putting out a really, really weak line up without him. Like without Greene, they'd probably be bad in a lot of conferences. I'm sure this will be the kiss of death but I'm just not sure how they haven't won a few more games.

The other 4 are only there to get rebounds when he misses, and to kick it back out to him

[sporthenry]

The other 4 are only there to get rebounds when he misses, and to kick it back out to him

Except if that was the case, Va. Tech would probably be better if he really took all their shots. He averages nearly 9 points more than Curry on 5 shots more.

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Virginia Tech here, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=14622

[Philadukie]

Ovetime, of course. I hate being the 9:00 pm game!!

[ChrisP]

Ugh, I'm not sure which I hate worse - ESPN or UCONN. Totally inept play at the end by Cincy lets their game with the Uconnvicts slip into OT and now... I have to miss the start of the Duke game because I'm watching on my laptop :(

[mattman91]

Go to hell espn go to hell eat $#!#!

[Durham Thunder]

I see a large amount of blue in this crowd!

Ok...short travel, 4 days off, lets do this.

[TNDukeFan]

Ugh, I'm not sure which I hate worse - ESPN or UCONN. Totally inept play at the end by Cincy lets their game with the Uconnvicts slip into OT and now... I have to miss the start of the Duke game because I'm watching on my laptop :(

Try ESPN3

[ChrisP]

Did they call 6 or 7 fouls in the first four mins? It might be K vs. a manager by the end at this rate! And will someone please teach Doris Burke the difference between a flop and a charge? I swear, I think she's been hanging out with Lenny Elmore in the ESPN cafeteria or something.

[JBDuke]

We're on ESPNews until the UConn/Cincy game ends.

[ChrisP]

Try ESPN3

Thanks, I got it now. Earlier, it said it was blacked out on ESPN3. I can't figure ESPN out but happy I can watch now.

EDIT - NO. They just switched back to the UConn/Cincy game - WTF ESPN?!?!?

[sporthenry]

Greene just blew by Thornton.

[Durham Thunder]

Amile Jefferson has shown flashes this year, of real rebound prowess.

Lookout. With a year under his belt, and the confidence to train and compete at a higher level, Amile's going to be sick-nasty. A super sophomore, as some might say.

[cptnflash]

And another Cincinnati player fouls out. So we get to wait another minute before this mercifully comes to an end. Come on!

[TNDukeFan]

Thanks, I got it now. Earlier, it said it was blacked out on ESPN3. I can't figure ESPN out but happy I can watch now.

EDIT - NO. They just switched back to the UConn/Cincy game - WTF ESPN?!?!?

happened here too - unbelievable

[DukieInBrasil]

Try ESPN3

my espn3 went to commercial and came back on as the UCons Cincy game. When i reloaded it, it was still the Big East game. Totally lame.

[UrinalCake]

Try ESPN3

The game is blacked out in my area on espn3 via desktop browser. It's not blacked out on mobile, so I got to watch for 30 seconds on my iphone, but then THAT feed switched over to the UCONN game. Wtf!

[sporthenry]

Amile Jefferson has shown flashes this year, of real rebound prowess.

Lookout. With a year under his belt, and the confidence to train and compete at a higher level, Amile's going to be sick-nasty. A super sophomore, as some might say.

I'm intrigued to see how he develops. Those are the types where you can really see the coaching come through. He seems more and more like LT daily which is both good and bad. Would love to see some offense from him granted I feel like I'm comparing him to LT senior year so if this is Amile freshman, there is still hope.

[Gthoma2a]

Why does Doris keep getting our games if all she is going to do is complain about us?

[sporthenry]

Guess the refs have heard us complain about the physicality of the game. Both teams in the bonus with 8:45 left.

[Les Grossman]

I tune in just in time to see QC pick up #3

[Les Grossman]

whistleball

[Durham Thunder]

MP3 gonna start the train!

[Gthoma2a]

Marshall has to give his man more room on the perimeter. He doesn't need that foul. In this game, the foul is too easy to get, but still.

[sporthenry]

MP3 gonna start the train!

To the FT line?

[UrinalCake]

Will be a challenge to maintain the lead with this lineup. I'd like to see Rasheed initiate the offense some.

[Gthoma2a]

To the FT line?

That one has been going for a while.

[ChrisP]

Agreed. That was a "Plumlee" foul out on the perimeter that was unnecessary.

Anyone else watching online? I love how the commercials are CRYSTAL clear, but at times, my feed for the live action looks like I'm watching underwater.

[DukieInBrasil]

I'm intrigued to see how he develops. Those are the types where you can really see the coaching come through. He seems more and more like LT daily which is both good and bad. Would love to see some offense from him granted I feel like I'm comparing him to LT senior year so if this is Amile freshman, there is still hope.

Amile has shown much more offensive competence as a Fr. than LT did. LT really struggled in traffic, Amile seems to have fluid, crafty moves to score. LT developed a jumper into his Sr. year, which Amile has shown no signs of shooting so far. I have a lot of hope for Amile's offensive game developing beyond LT's, even by next year.

[UrinalCake]

Marshall has to give his man more room on the perimeter. He doesn't need that foul. In this game, the foul is too easy to get, but still.

It took both Miles and Mason years to learn to not do that. Hope Marshall learns more quickly 8-)

[Furniture]

Will be a challenge to maintain the lead with this lineup. I'd like to see Rasheed initiate the offense some.

Whatttttt?

[ChrisP]

Double!!! :cool:

And how is it that Mason can look positively balletic on moves like that a minute ago for the reverse layup and then look like he's wearing 75lb shoes other times? Weird.

[Luther]

Nice move Mason!!!!

[dairedevil]

Guess the refs have heard us complain about the physicality of the game. Both teams in the bonus with 8:45 left.

Is it worse to have fouls every trip down the floor or for the refs to "let them play" and have the physicality get out of hand? It always seems to be one extreme or the other - usually in the same game. Wish that they could find the middle ground. I can't help but think that it's got to be difficult to know how to play.

[Durham Thunder]

Is Kelly going to a frat party on VT's campus?

[Furniture]

The coaches were right! Josh can shoot!

[Luther]

Go ahead Josh!!!!

[sporthenry]

Amile has shown much more offensive competence as a Fr. than LT did. LT really struggled in traffic, Amile seems to have fluid, crafty moves to score. LT developed a jumper into his Sr. year, which Amile has shown no signs of shooting so far. I have a lot of hope for Amile's offensive game developing beyond LT's, even by next year.

His finishing in contact, and more importantly his pick and roll game is much better. That is why I think he'll be good at Duke b/c of how much Duke runs the stagger screens.

[Gthoma2a]

Mason handling the bad outing the last time like he should. He is showing that senior maturity and competitive spirit.

[sporthenry]

Mason handling the bad outing the last time like he should. He is showing that senior maturity and competitive spirit.

Yeah, filling the stat sheet even if he isn't scoring.

[throatybeard]

I just Musbergered on that shot of Mrs Sonya Curry.

[ChrisP]

Yeah, filling the stat sheet even if he isn't scoring.

Agreed. Really happy to see him bounce back with this sort of game. I really hoped it would be like this. Way to go, Mason!!! :cool:

[arnie]

Yeah, filling the stat sheet even if he isn't scoring.

Different player than 5 days ago. Maybe cause he's not in foul trouble

[throatybeard]

Different player than 5 days ago. Maybe cause he's not in foul trouble

The world is ending! Mason is exposed. Exposed!

Maybe not.

[Durham Thunder]

Does anyone else think the Hokies arena looks...old? Not classic, not vintage, just OLD?

[Papa John]

I just Musbergered on that shot of Mrs Sonya Curry.

So when do we initiate stall ball? And who is responsible for the hideous floor design at Oregon (sorry, tangential... They just flashed to Oregon to pimp the halftime show...)

[sporthenry]

Different player than 5 days ago. Maybe cause he's not in foul trouble

He didn't have a foul at UMD in the first half. Just had a bad game which I'm sure was aided by the fatigue.

[sporthenry]

Biggest difference with Mason also appears to be his defense as the announcer just mentioned. Several times he didn't give up easy baskets even when he was beat. Helping out with Greene. I have a feeling the coaches got into him about his defense contrary to what some on here think.

[Acymetric]

Daniel Ewing at the game?

[FerryFor50]

Sigh. That was a Daniel Ewing-esque tech.

[sporthenry]

I don't mind that tech that much assuming everyone called it like that. You just hit a 3 in a guy's face, do you really need to yap about it. However fleeting the conversation was.

[ChrisP]

Sigh. That was a Daniel Ewing-esque tech.

Props to Doris B for sticking up for him/us though.

[davekay1971]

Doris Burke is a good commentator.

These refs are lost, making bad calls at both ends.

[FerryFor50]

Wow, no foul on that jumper?

[Gthoma2a]

If Doris doesn't side with us, you know it wasn't a technical...

[sporthenry]

To be fair to Doris, I think she gets lost between the NBA and college game. That is why she said the things about the charges because they usually give the edge to the offense. Similar with the technical. You can't really use the NBA standards to judge how this game was officiated.

Part of the reason I enjoy college basketball is b/c there isn't that type of hot dogging.

[Furniture]

Wow, no foul on that jumper?

Exactly!

[UrinalCake]

If we can shoot 89% from 3 every game, I think we'll be in pretty good shape 8-)

[Gthoma2a]

If we can shoot 89% from 3 every game, I think we'll be in pretty good shape 8-)

I don't see why we haven't been doing this for the last 10 games. It seems to be sound strategy.

[wgl1228]

After 4 years Mason finally not falling for the head-fake and has 3 blocks!

[throatybeard]

Does anyone else think the Hokies arena looks...old? Not classic, not vintage, just OLD?

That's how I felt about UHall at UVA. I had the fortune/misfortune of attending the OT game where we beat them in OT in 2000.

Basically, everything built since WWII is a piece of garbage. Write it down. But the new stuff looks NEW!!! for about five years.

Cameron is a jewel.

[magjayran]

If we can shoot 89% from 3 every game, I think we'll be in pretty good shape 8-)

I think we should try to go 10-10 from the FT line every half we play from here on out.

[ForkFondler]

That's how I felt about UHall at UVA. I had the fortune/misfortune of attending the OT game where we beat them in OT in 2000.

Basically, everything built since WWII is a piece of garbage. Write it down. But the new stuff looks NEW!!! for about five years.

Cameron is a jewel.

A thoroughly renovated jewel. Looking traditional and vibrant is a neat trick. The same trick would do wonders for Wally Wade.

[FerryFor50]

Hairston has been fantastic of late. Impressive post move for they layup!

[Furniture]

Not many posters today..

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Hairston has been fantastic of late. Impressive post move for they layup!

Could Hairston be this years Zoubek? A year early no less.

[FerryFor50]

Could Hairston be this years Zoubek? A year early no less.

I'd take him being Lance Thomas. The extra playing time while Kelly has been out has been great for Hairston and Jefferson.

[DukeWarhead]

Close, competitive games be damned... this is the kind of Duke game I most enjoy watching. Not trying to jinx anything here, but this is fun.

[Furniture]

Make a STATEMENT Duke!

[CDu]

This has just been clinical. Nice to have a game where we just can't miss. Low stress, high enjoyment.

[Furniture]

I'd take him being Lance Thomas. The extra playing time while Kelly has been out has been great for Hairston and Jefferson.

Murphy too!

[Durham Thunder]

We're up by 30. It'd be nice to see Marshall get some touches.

[pfrduke]

Virginia Tech is a really bad basketball team. We're certainly playing well, but they're also not helping themselves at all. They're just awful. I feel sorry for Erick Green.

[davekay1971]

Not many posters today..

Because we're kicking tail. The in-game threads are always longest when we struggle. Just like the post-game threads for losses are epics.

Hopefully everyone's just relaxing at home with a nice drink and enjoying this.

[-jk]

Virginia Tech is a really bad basketball team. We're certainly playing well, but they're also not helping themselves at all. They're just awful. I feel sorry for Erick Green.

VaTech is bad, but we were only a 13pt favorite. This is a whippin'.

I like it. Mason looks a lot healthier.

-jk

[sporthenry]

Virginia Tech is a really bad basketball team. We're certainly playing well, but they're also not helping themselves at all. They're just awful. I feel sorry for Erick Green.

I said this earlier and I really wonder how bad they are without Greene. Would they win a D1 conference? Would they finish last in some mid major conferences?

[sporthenry]

Because we're kicking tail. The in-game threads are always longest when we struggle. Just like the post-game threads for losses are epics.

Hopefully everyone's just relaxing at home with a nice drink and enjoying this.

Yeah, no doubt the board gets more people here when the games get closer. Although I admit I haven't posted as much b/c you can only give so much kudos. Not to mention, this board has a therapeutic effect when you can vent a bit.

What is the over/under for post game thread length. 5 pages?

[vick]

Yeah, no doubt the board gets more people here when the games get closer. Although I admit I haven't posted as much b/c you can only give so much kudos. Not to mention, this board has a therapeutic effect when you can vent a bit.

What is the over/under for post game thread length. 5 pages?

I'll take the under, but in fairness, it's a 9:00 game on a Thursday night, and the next game comes up pretty fast then. It's the angst-filled threads after close road conference wins that kill me, but maybe that's just me.

[noworries]

That's how I felt about UHall at UVA. I had the fortune/misfortune of attending the OT game where we beat them in OT in 2000.

Basically, everything built since WWII is a piece of garbage. Write it down. But the new stuff looks NEW!!! for about five years.

Cameron is a jewel.

I wish they still played in UHall, it would be more intimidating. JPJ never fills up at all, and probably won't for Duke this week. TOo bad UHall has too much asbestos that they can't even tear it down without a lot of trouble.

[Durham Thunder]

Doris Bruke was talking about Mason, and hit it on the head.... "He can be the best player on the floor- unguardable. But then he can disappear."

[Monmouth77]

The ball movement has been pretty tonight, and that's largely without Cook on the floor. Also seems like we are attacking the basket more in the second half, but part of that is Va Tech letting up a bit.

[sporthenry]

Well Duke's offense has been very good. Even without the 3's, just very fluid. Hopefully, this game has allowed them to relax and realize what the offense is capable of.

[pfrduke]

Doris Bruke was talking about Mason, and hit it on the head.... "He can be the best player on the floor- unguardable. But then he can disappear."

I thought she was talking about CJ Leslie?

[chaosmage]

Doris Bruke was talking about Mason, and hit it on the head.... "He can be the best player on the floor- unguardable. But then he can disappear."

she was talking about C.J. Leslie.

[freshmanjs]

Doris Bruke was talking about Mason, and hit it on the head.... "He can be the best player on the floor- unguardable. But then he can disappear."

she was talking about cj leslie.

[TNDukeFan]

Doris Bruke was talking about Mason, and hit it on the head.... "He can be the best player on the floor- unguardable. But then he can disappear."

I thought she was referring to CJ Leslie.

[sagegrouse]

Doris Bruke was talking about Mason, and hit it on the head.... "He can be the best player on the floor- unguardable. But then he can disappear."


I thought she was talking about CJ Leslie?


she was talking about C.J. Leslie.


she was talking about cj leslie.


I thought she was referring to CJ Leslie.

First liar on DBR doesn't stand a chance!!!

sagegrouse

[pfrduke]

All together now!

[davekay1971]

Nice drive by Murph

[sporthenry]

First liar on DBR doesn't stand a chance!!!

sagegrouse

They are inflating the post stats for this game as well.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

So is it time we start a "Rasheed for ACC ROY" thread?

I can't think of another freshman that would be more deserving.

[pfrduke]

It's a Zafirovski sighting!

[davekay1971]

Nice roll to the basket by Marshall. Unfortunately he shoots free throws like Mason used to!

[FerryFor50]

So is it time we start a "Rasheed for ACC ROY" thread?

I can't think of another freshman that would be more deserving.

TJ Warren

[h8lightblue]

I wish they still played in UHall, it would be more intimidating. JPJ never fills up at all, and probably won't for Duke this week. TOo bad UHall has too much asbestos that they can't even tear it down without a lot of trouble.

As of Monday they only had 150 tickets left.

[Papa John]

As I said in the post-MD thread--VaTech is awful. Add to that the fact that we've played a very sharp game with white-hot shooting and you get a complete obliteration. The fact that it's a road game makes it particularly satisfying. Great game, start to finish by the boys!