PDA

View Full Version : Wojo vs. Brian Kersey



jay
02-13-2013, 11:58 PM
I'm one of the biggest Duke fan's you'll find, but Wojo's actions during halftime to the referee Brian Kersey were flat-out embarrassing for the Duke program.

In case you missed it, SportsCenter tonight showed a clip of Wojo charging at Kersey as the teams were walking off the floor at halftime. Wojo put his forehead to Kersey's forehead in a "you want some?" kind of way almost daring Kersey to make a move. Coach K watched the whole thing unfold and did little-to-nothing to get between the two. As Wojo walked off, K continued to chastise Kersey, while Kersey engaged in some sort of "You better get your guy under control" conversation in response.

I'm sorry, but that's junior high rec-league kind of stuff on Duke's part. Kersey could have and probably should have tossed Wojo right then and there.

I will always be a Duke fan, but the disdain with which the Duke coaching staff treats officials on a semi-consistent basis is really disappointing.

Various places on Twitter are saying the tape of the incident will be send to the league office. I, personally, won't be surprised to see a suspension for Wojo come out of this.

Not cool.

Billy Dat
02-14-2013, 12:02 AM
I'm one of the biggest Duke fan's you'll find, but Wojo's actions during halftime to the referee Brian Kersey were flat-out embarrassing for the Duke program.

In case you missed it, SportsCenter tonight showed a clip of Wojo charging at Kersey as the teams were walking off the floor at halftime. Wojo put his forehead to Kersey's forehead in a "you want some?" kind of way almost daring Kersey to make a move. Coach K watched the whole thing unfold and did little-to-nothing to get between the two. As Wojo walked off, K continued to chastise Kersey, while Kersey engaged in some sort of "You better get your guy under control" conversation in response.

I'm sorry, but that's junior high rec-league kind of stuff on Duke's part. Kersey could have and probably should have tossed Wojo right then and there.

I will always be a Duke fan, but the disdain with which the Duke coaching staff treats officials on a semi-consistent basis is really disappointing.

Various places on Twitter are saying the tape of the incident will be send to the league office. I, personally, won't be surprised to see a suspension for Wojo come out of this.

Not cool.

Sounds like he's the Head Coach in Waiting...he gets angry.

CDu
02-14-2013, 12:04 AM
I'm one of the biggest Duke fan's you'll find, but Wojo's actions during halftime to the referee Brian Kersey were flat-out embarrassing for the Duke program.

In case you missed it, SportsCenter tonight showed a clip of Wojo charging at Kersey as the teams were walking off the floor at halftime. Wojo put his forehead to Kersey's forehead in a "you want some?" kind of way almost daring Kersey to make a move. Coach K watched the whole thing unfold and did little-to-nothing to get between the two. As Wojo walked off, K continued to chastise Kersey, while Kersey engaged in some sort of "You better get your guy under control" conversation in response.

I'm sorry, but that's junior high rec-league kind of stuff on Duke's part. Kersey could have and probably should have tossed Wojo right then and there.

I will always be a Duke fan, but the disdain with which the Duke coaching staff treats officials on a semi-consistent basis is really disappointing.

Various places on Twitter are saying the tape of the incident will be send to the league office. I, personally, won't be surprised to see a suspension for Wojo come out of this.

Not cool.

To be fair, the lack of a double-dribble call on UNC at that point was pretty bad. But yes, Wojo's actions were a bit much.

uh_no
02-14-2013, 12:07 AM
I'm one of the biggest Duke fan's you'll find, but Wojo's actions during halftime to the referee Brian Kersey were flat-out embarrassing for the Duke program.

In case you missed it, SportsCenter tonight showed a clip of Wojo charging at Kersey as the teams were walking off the floor at halftime. Wojo put his forehead to Kersey's forehead in a "you want some?" kind of way almost daring Kersey to make a move. Coach K watched the whole thing unfold and did little-to-nothing to get between the two. As Wojo walked off, K continued to chastise Kersey, while Kersey engaged in some sort of "You better get your guy under control" conversation in response.

I'm sorry, but that's junior high rec-league kind of stuff on Duke's part. Kersey could have and probably should have tossed Wojo right then and there.

I will always be a Duke fan, but the disdain with which the Duke coaching staff treats officials on a semi-consistent basis is really disappointing.

Various places on Twitter are saying the tape of the incident will be send to the league office. I, personally, won't be surprised to see a suspension for Wojo come out of this.

Not cool.

really? wow


everyone is entitled to his opinion, but think of this...first of all, it's probably insanely loud, so to make discussion with an official, you likely need to be somewhat close.....that's excuse making, though....lets pretend it wasn't

working the officials is a an accepted part of the college (or likely any) game. it would seem that K is a master of doing so, and that is exactly what happened at halftime....wojo may have gone over the top, perhaps, but K certianly did not....his exchange was no more aggressive than any other engagement

I would not be amazed if K was familiar with all the officials on the circuit, and likely respects them....in the heat of the game though, you have to work them...it's how you do it....if it even gets you one call, it's worth it.

I think you are way over criticizing K here....and the fact that wojo was not tossed, probably indicates that dispite wojo's apparent disagreement, he was likely respectful.

wilko
02-14-2013, 12:11 AM
I will always be a Duke fan, but the disdain with which the Duke coaching staff treats officials on a semi-consistent basis is really disappointing.

I dunno. The game (in general) is overly physical these days. Travels, holds, walks and carrys of all but the MOST egregious nature are routinely ignored. Lets not pretend he may not have had a good reason to be livid. Passion is good!
Any idea what set him off?

Maybe he was plain ol' trying to get tossed in order to fire up the team - who had played the entire first half in a daze.

jay
02-14-2013, 12:13 AM
really? wow


everyone is entitled to his opinion, but think of this...first of all, it's probably insanely loud, so to make discussion with an official, you likely need to be somewhat close.....that's excuse making, though....lets pretend it wasn't

working the officials is a an accepted part of the college (or likely any) game. it would seem that K is a master of doing so, and that is exactly what happened at halftime....wojo may have gone over the top, perhaps, but K certianly did not....his exchange was no more aggressive than any other engagement

I would not be amazed if K was familiar with all the officials on the circuit, and likely respects them....in the heat of the game though, you have to work them...it's how you do it....if it even gets you one call, it's worth it.

I think you are way over criticizing K here....and the fact that wojo was not tossed, probably indicates that dispite wojo's apparent disagreement, he was likely respectful.

I guess I've never been one who believes cursing and gesturing demonstratively in a negative way at human beings should be an acceptable form of communication, no matter what job you're involved in.

I understand the need to "work" officials. But there are lots of ways to do it that don't involve treating with someone with disdain, which Coach K does on occasion. There have been countless coaches over the years who mastered the art of being able to psychologically influence officials without getting nasty, as I have observed Coach K and his assistants doing, both on TV and in person, many many times.

Do a lot of coaches do it? Absolutely. But I still don't think that makes it right.

I recognize Coach K isn't perfect. But I've always been the kind of person who believes a true "leader" treats all people around him/her with dignity and respect, no matter how heated the situation.

Sorry, but I do expect more from Coach K, as he presents himself as "a leader of men." There are literally dozens, maybe hundreds of ways I want my children to emulate the characteristics of Coach K.

But the way he treats officials is absolutely not one of them.

jay
02-14-2013, 12:16 AM
I dunno. The game (in general) is overly physical these days. Travels, holds, walks and carrys of all but the MOST egregious nature are routinely ignored. Lets not pretend he may not have had a good reason to be livid. Passion is good!


There's a difference between having "passion" for the game and physically confronting an official.

Players are allowed to be physical with each other. That's part of the game.

Coaches are not allowed to be physical with referees. Sorry, but no matter what color blue you bleed, that's unacceptable, and like I said, it's embarrassing for the program.

wilko
02-14-2013, 12:21 AM
But the way he treats officials is absolutely not one of them.

If the officials are the overly sensitive types; they should chose another line of work.
Mail-man afraid of paper cuts... Nurse afraid of germs... seems part in parcel as the nature of the beast for their chosen line of work.

I didn't see the clip have no idea of the specifics here, tonite. BUT I'm not philosophically opposed to gaining an advantage.

uh_no
02-14-2013, 12:22 AM
I guess I've never been one who believes cursing and gesturing demonstratively in a negative way at human beings should be an acceptable form of communication, no matter what job you're involved in.

I understand the need to "work" officials. But there are lots of ways to do it that don't involve treating with someone with disdain, which Coach K does on occasion. There have been countless coaches over the years who mastered the art of being able to psychologically influence officials without getting nasty, as I have observed Coach K and his assistants doing, both on TV and in person, many many times.

Do a lot of coaches do it? Absolutely. But I still don't think that makes it right.

I recognize Coach K isn't perfect. But I've always been the kind of person who believes a true "leader" treats all people around him/her with dignity and respect, no matter how heated the situation.

Sorry, but I do expect more from Coach K, as he presents himself as "a leader of men." There are literally dozens, maybe hundreds of ways I want my children to emulate the characteristics of Coach K.

But the way he treats officials is absolutely not one of them.

and if he were to treat any human that way outside competition, i'd agree with you.

Coach K believes, as do, as it seems, most pundits and myself, that "working" the officials by some means, is beneficial. I think it is unfair to criticize when we have no idea what was said....

from my observation it seems that most communication follows the pattern of "come on! how was that a XXX (charge, goal tend, whatever)!!!" "YYY did this and that's what i called" "YYY did such and such (and that's why I called XXX)"....<end of conversation>

we have no reaosn to suspect either of the halftime conversation was any different.....other than the visible appearance of wojo being "too close" to the official.


when your livelihood depends on winning games, if not being a perfect gentleman 100% of the time helps you win games, then I can completely understand not being 100% the gentleman all the time.

you should observe the interactions between the team/coaches before and after the game....they are perfectly amiable...and i'm sure if you asked coach K while not in the middle of a game, he would admit that the refs do a good job and are good guys.

sporthenry
02-14-2013, 12:25 AM
Well after looking at what ESPN showed, it appears the ref restrained Wojo. So that would also indicate the ref was in the wrong.

As far as K and the refs. I'm sure he has a relationship much like Bobby Cox did with umpires. They respect the hell out of each other, just don't always agree with each other. K has the mouth of a sailor. That is just the way it is but he must be doing something right b/c I can't remember the last time he got a technical.

Jim3k
02-14-2013, 12:26 AM
There's a difference between having "passion" for the game and physically confronting an official.

Players are allowed to be physical with each other. That's part of the game.

Coaches are not allowed to be physical with referees. Sorry, but no matter what color blue you bleed, that's unacceptable, and like I said, it's embarrassing for the program.

I'm not sure your remonstrance is supported by fact. I know you think you saw something untoward, but unless you heard it, heard the tone and the language, your value as a witness is open to question. Now, had Kersey T'd up Wojo, you'd have a point, as Kersey wouldn't stand for abuse. But he did not respond as if he'd been abused. More likely Wojo needed to be close to be heard, but also likely is that even if upset, he said nothing out of line beyond an impassioned plea to call what was an obvious infraction. Or, he may have asked if Kersey had seen it, but applied play-on principles. That, too, might earn a disagreement that didn't reach intimidation or insult.

Believe me, Kersey and that veteran crew are not intimidated by coaches. And they know how to respond to misbehavior. I suggest you have mistakenly accused Wojo of something he didn't do.

jay
02-14-2013, 12:30 AM
and if he were to treat any human that way outside competition, i'd agree with you.

Why, just because it's a basketball game, should it be any different? Should we leave our standards outside of the gym just because it's sports?

I just don't agree with this line of thinking.

Again, let me stress that I don't think there's anything wrong with "working" officials. Yes, that's part of the game.

But I have been of the opinion for a long time that Coach K pushes that line further than he should in regards to how he speaks to and gestures at officials. His assistants are often guilty of this, too. I have heard in person at games and seen on TV the way he treats the officials on occasion, and if I were ever spoken to or treated that way by a colleague, we wouldn't be doing business together for long. By a superior, and they'd have my resignation within minutes.

We shouldn't leave our standards at the door just because it's a game.

Duvall
02-14-2013, 12:32 AM
There's a difference between having "passion" for the game and physically confronting an official.

Players are allowed to be physical with each other. That's part of the game.

Coaches are not allowed to be physical with referees. Sorry, but no matter what color blue you bleed, that's unacceptable, and like I said, it's embarrassing for the program.

You seem to be using a fairly idiosyncratic definition of "physical."

jay
02-14-2013, 12:35 AM
I'm not sure your remonstrance is supported by fact. I know you think you saw something untoward, but unless you heard it, heard the tone and the language, your value as a witness is open to question. Now, had Kersey T'd up Wojo, you'd have a point, as Kersey wouldn't stand for abuse. But he did not respond as if he'd been abused. More likely Wojo needed to be close to be heard, but also likely is that even if upset, he said nothing out of line beyond an impassioned plea to call what was an obvious infraction. Or, he may have asked if Kersey had seen it, but applied play-on principles. That, too, might earn a disagreement that didn't reach intimidation or insult.

Believe me, Kersey and that veteran crew are not intimidated by coaches. And they know how to respond to misbehavior. I suggest you have mistakenly accused Wojo of something he didn't do.

I think you make the mistake of assuming just because a T wasn't issued, no one crossed the line.

This is nationally televised college basketball. Officials know that, many times, it's in their best interest to swallow the whistle in situations like this and let their superiors deal with the situation.

Imagine the uproar from an official calling a technical foul on the home team as both teams are walking off the floor. Tell me when was the last time you saw that happen? It just doesn't.

The point is, you're doing just as much logical meandering based on your opinion as you accuse me of.

jay
02-14-2013, 12:37 AM
You seem to be using a fairly idiosyncratic definition of "physical."

That's perhaps a fair point.

Let me paint a different picture instead of using such a vague word.

What usually happens, say, during a pick-up game of basketball, when things get heated and one player gets up in another player's face, to the point of touching his forehead to the other player's forehead?

Almost universally, as I have witnessed, that confrontation escalates into fisticuffs.

That's the best way I can describe what happened with Wojo and Kersey, only Kersey didn't do anything, and Wojo eventually walked away.

uh_no
02-14-2013, 12:39 AM
We shouldn't leave our standards at the door just because it's a game.

and we absolutely don't.

have you heard coach K tell crazies some cheer is unacceptable? it happens all the time.

I am sure, as well, that there is some line he would not cross with refs, coaches, or players. As is pointed out, we have no idea what either K or Wojo said to the official, and you're simply speculating.


it is perfectly acceptable that getting on a ref is not an affront to the ref himself, but a nod to competitiveness. one does not have to look past the number of T's K has amassed over the years (probably countable on a single hand...) to understand how he treats officials.




K respects the officials, and the officials respect K. They're allowed to disagree with calls, and they frequently do....i respect my coworkers and disagree with them....i'm sure players on the duke team disagree with eachtoher and rip on each other but respect the heck out of eachother.

I have never seen anything other than disagreement from K, and that includes tonight.

jay
02-14-2013, 12:45 AM
Here's a screen shot of the altercation from SportsCenter. In the wide-angle clip before this, you can see Wojo walking into Kersey, who is using his arms to hold Wojo back a bit.




3182

uh_no
02-14-2013, 12:50 AM
Here's a screen shot of the altercation from SportsCenter. In the wide-angle clip before this, you can see Wojo walking into Kersey, who is using his arms to hold Wojo back a bit.




3182

I don't think anyone is denying that wojo was fired up and probably was a little over the top with the ref.....i think the disagreement stems from your reprimand of K and coaches, whom you accuse of systematic disrespect of officials, which I think most people would NOT agree.

Either way, the ref, who has the power to penalize wojo for any inappropriate conduct *did not* do so, so i'm not sure why we should be concerned.

jay
02-14-2013, 12:56 AM
I don't think anyone is denying that wojo was fired up and probably was a little over the top with the ref.....i think the disagreement stems from your reprimand of K and coaches, whom you accuse of systematic disrespect of officials, which I think most people would NOT agree.

Fair enough. I recognize that I'm likely in the minority on this one.


Either way, the ref, who has the power to penalize wojo for any inappropriate conduct *did not* do so, so i'm not sure why we should be concerned.

Sometimes the best recourse, given the circumstances (halftime, teams walking off the court, etc) is to not draw additional attention to ones self, even though action may be warranted.

I mean, sometimes the refs can't win for losing.

In this situation, I'm incredibly rash for pre-judging a "conversation" we couldn't hear between Wojo and Kersey. And if Wojo really did something all that bad, why Kersey would have T'ed him up or tossed him from the gym.

But when it's Karl Hess tossing two NCSU alums, all of a sudden everyone thinks they know EVERYTHING about what happened and who said what to whom, and it's perfectly acceptable to jump to the conclusion that Hess has rabbit ears and is a clown for taking decisive action.

I just find the double standards of college basketball fans when it comes to the officials to be a bit extreme at times.

oldnavy
02-14-2013, 05:44 AM
Wojo was upset, he yelled at the official, he got into his face. He did not swing at the guy, and he must not have said anything worthy of a techinical, so I really don't see the big deal.

Now in an ideal world where everyone was always in control of his or her emotions things like this would never happen. Did Wojo do anything wrong? I don't know.

Anger is hard to control, especially in confrontational situations. None of us have any idea of what had been said upto that point by Kersey or Wojo. I had to listen to the game on the radio, and Bob Harris made one specific reference to Kersey saying something to our bench.
Maybe Kersey crossed the line and provocted Wojo and Wojo was just reacting to that, who knows??

Refs can be just as provocatiove as coaches, it cuts both ways. I was ejected from a baseball game for asking is a normal tone of voice (only the ump could hear me) and without jestering, what was wrong with a called ball. Just asking so I could relay the info back to the pitcher. Tossed! Could it be that Kersey said something inappropriate to Wojo or the bench during that half or at the start of the confrontation? Sure it is. The fact that Kersey didn't toss Wojo makes me think that maybe he did, and he knew he needed to let Wojo vent.

Maybe Wojo was completely out of line for no good reason. If so, he should apologize.

Bottom line is that we cannot know what took place up to that point, can we, so to make a judgement call from outside the situation and without the context of events leading up to it is a bit unfair. To expect emotionaless coaches is a bit unrealistic (ok, one major exception, Brad Stevens).

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-14-2013, 06:05 AM
Meh, this isn't a big deal. Is he yelling? Yes. Is it loud in there? Of course. Is he coming towards the ref quickly? Yes. Is he also eager to get into the locker room so he can rip into his big guys at halftime for not crashing the boards? Almost certainly.

The fact that after the brief interaction K walks over and has a calm conversation with the ref before heading to the locker room suggests to me that there's nothing to see here.

Watching in real time, I noted to my Tar Heel neighbor that immediately after the first half ended, you could see both K and Roy heading directly to the refs to make their opinions heard. In fact, I said "look, they both learned something from Dean Smith."

jay, I understand where you are coming from, but I think you are trying really hard to take about 0.8 seconds of tape and turn it into some outrage. In lieu of more evidence (audio of Wojo, a complaint by the ref, more explanation from anyone directly involved) I am going to chalk it up to a hurried conversation with a ref at halftime and nothing more.

In fact, I just went back and rewatched on ESPN, and it feels even more like a manufactured controversy. Wojo's walking toward the ref, yes, but so is the rest of the staff and team as they are headed off the court.

Move along folks, nothing to see here...

mike88
02-14-2013, 06:12 AM
I have not seen the replay on Sports Center, but I was at the game and have a little different take on things. First of all, halftime wasn't the first incident. Earlier in the first half, at one of the time outs, Bryan Kersey had approached Wojo while Wojo was sitting on the bench to deliver a message to Wojo that seemed to me to be "quit mouthing off to me." IT was very specific to Wojo- not the full bench.

At halftime, Wojo was clearly unhappy about a lack of a call on the last play (and maybe the officiating in general) - he began yelling at Kersey again as he took his usual walking path from the bench to the locker room. At that point, Kersey went out of his way to stop Wojo physically and deliver a blistering retort. Afterwards, I think Wojo was a little surprised about the whole thing.

Again, that was my one-off interpretation (no replays) but I watched the whole thing from when Wojo left the bench through their confrontation.

tbyers11
02-14-2013, 06:23 AM
I have not seen the replay on Sports Center, but I was at the game and have a little different take on things. First of all, halftime wasn't the first incident. Earlier in the first half, at one of the time outs, Bryan Kersey had approached Wojo while Wojo was sitting on the bench to deliver a message to Wojo that seemed to me to be "quit mouthing off to me." IT was very specific to Wojo- not the full bench.

At halftime, Wojo was clearly unhappy about a lack of a call on the last play (and maybe the officiating in general) - he began yelling at Kersey again as he took his usual walking path from the bench to the locker room. At that point, Kersey went out of his way to stop Wojo physically and deliver a blistering retort. Afterwards, I think Wojo was a little surprised about the whole thing.

Again, that was my one-off interpretation (no replays) but I watched the whole thing from when Wojo left the bench through their confrontation.

On TV I didn't know about the earlier info about Kersey and Wojo and the earlier exchanges. Thanks for the info. From my view the ESPN replay showed that Wojo was walking in the direction of Kersey but that Kersey is the one who initiated the "confrontation" by getting in front of Wojo. I have no idea what was said and think that our coaches should not be screaming lunatics but I don't think this is a big deal. The fact as others have noted that K and Kersey had a calm conversation immediately after the fact puts me in the much ado about nothing camp.

semper phi 78
02-14-2013, 07:07 AM
Duke had 3 fouls, 70 seconds into the 2nd half. And 4 fouls before UNC had their first.

Chicago 1995
02-14-2013, 07:13 AM
If only, well, anyone was as concerned with antics of officials and their performance as people are about Wojo and Kersey's interaction last night.

This is purportedly the best crew the ACC has to offer, and they're not only terrible, they're all grandstanders who love the limelight as though they're players and ESPN paid to televise their magnificent calls rather than, well, the game these three and their colleagues across the country are trying to kill.

Wo may or may not have overreacted, but Kersey deserved whatever Wo might reasonably have been assumed to have said.

OldPhiKap
02-14-2013, 07:48 AM
If Wojo had really been over the line, the ref would have given him a technical.

If Kersey did not think it rose to that level, I'm fine with that. Who better to judge?

Part of the game, especially a rivalry game.

ChrisP
02-14-2013, 08:05 AM
On TV I didn't know about the earlier info about Kersey and Wojo and the earlier exchanges. Thanks for the info. From my view the ESPN replay showed that Wojo was walking in the direction of Kersey but that Kersey is the one who initiated the "confrontation" by getting in front of Wojo. I have no idea what was said and think that our coaches should not be screaming lunatics but I don't think this is a big deal. The fact as others have noted that K and Kersey had a calm conversation immediately after the fact puts me in the much ado about nothing camp.

I agree 100%. I just watched the clip on ESPN's site and Kersey definitely looked to be the one who stopped Wojo - actually physically stopped/slowed him down with his arms. I do think Wojo was probably speaking to Kersey at the time (although that's just about impossible to tell from the tape), but Kersey definitely initiated that little tet-a-tet.

Of course, the Duke haters will see that close-up pic of Wojo going forehead-to-forehead with the ref and make a big deal out of it. Whatever. Scoreboard!

Cameron
02-14-2013, 08:21 AM
I have long wavered on whom I want seated at the throne of the Duke empire once K finally gets up and annoints a new leader (my two favorite choices, and the two options that I think our next coach will come from, are Wojo and Collins). Point Wojo. Gotta love the little guy. Like Coach, he has a desire deep within that just burns for Duke University. His passion and animation on the bench are what draw me most to him. He is Coach K with blonde hair. Collins is the same way. I absolutely love our staff.

Wojo and Chris are in quite the battle right now. It's almost as if they are continuously playing a game of who can impress Coach K. And knowing the almost scary competitor that Chris is, I fully expect him to turn up the full-court press and do something to top Wojo. Perhaps he will challenge Roy Williams to a duel at mid-court in our next meeting with Carolina. We all remember the Matt Doherty takedown. I would not be surprised at all to see Chris show up to that game on a horse carrying a sword.

Funny story about Coach Collins' relentless desire to win. My cousin and I were on his team one summer during the Coaches versus Campers game at the Duke Camp. We were trailing midway through the game by one or two points when my cousin missed a wide open lay-up off a pick-and-roll pass thrown by Collins. As my cousin ran back down the court, Collins stared at him with eyes as red as fire and said, "You better get your a-- in gear." This was a pick-up game against 12-year-olds. Go Duke, baby.

gus
02-14-2013, 08:42 AM
I have long wavered on whom I want seated at the throne of the Duke empire once K finally gets up and annoints a new leader (my two favorite choices, and the two options that I think our next coach will come from, are Wojo and Collins). Point Wojo. Gotta love the little guy. Like Coach, he has a desire deep within that just burns for Duke University. His passion and animation on the bench are what draw me most to him. He is Coach K with blonde hair. Collins is the same way. I absolutely love our staff.

Wojo and Chris are in quite the battle right now. It's almost as if they are continuously playing a game of who can impress Coach K. And knowing the almost scary competitor that Chris is, I fully expect him to turn up the full-court press and do something to top Wojo. Perhaps he will challenge Roy Williams to a duel at mid-court in our next meeting with Carolina. We all remember the Matt Doherty takedown. I would not be surprised at all to see Chris show up to that game on a horse carrying a sword.

Funny story about Coach Collins' relentless desire to win. My cousin and I were on his team one summer during the Coaches versus Campers game at the Duke Camp. We were trailing midway through the game by one or two points when my cousin missed a wide open lay-up off a pick-and-roll pass thrown by Collins. As my cousin ran back down the court, Collins stared at him with eyes as red as fire and said, "You better get your a-- in gear." This was a pick-up game against 12-year-olds. Go Duke, baby.

One little vignette from last night: after Mason picked up his fourth in a really foolish fashion, the camera cut to the bench. K was slumped back in his chair, looking at the court (I assume at Mason). Wojo was leaning forward with his face in his hands. I didn't notice Collins. I wonder what his reaction was. My guess is that he was stone faced.

jipops
02-14-2013, 09:07 AM
Wojo was upset, he yelled at the official, he got into his face. He did not swing at the guy, and he must not have said anything worthy of a techinical, so I really don't see the big deal.

Now in an ideal world where everyone was always in control of his or her emotions things like this would never happen. Did Wojo do anything wrong? I don't know.

Anger is hard to control, especially in confrontational situations. None of us have any idea of what had been said upto that point by Kersey or Wojo. I had to listen to the game on the radio, and Bob Harris made one specific reference to Kersey saying something to our bench.
Maybe Kersey crossed the line and provocted Wojo and Wojo was just reacting to that, who knows??

Refs can be just as provocatiove as coaches, it cuts both ways. I was ejected from a baseball game for asking is a normal tone of voice (only the ump could hear me) and without jestering, what was wrong with a called ball. Just asking so I could relay the info back to the pitcher. Tossed! Could it be that Kersey said something inappropriate to Wojo or the bench during that half or at the start of the confrontation? Sure it is. The fact that Kersey didn't toss Wojo makes me think that maybe he did, and he knew he needed to let Wojo vent.

Maybe Wojo was completely out of line for no good reason. If so, he should apologize.

Bottom line is that we cannot know what took place up to that point, can we, so to make a judgement call from outside the situation and without the context of events leading up to it is a bit unfair. To expect emotionaless coaches is a bit unrealistic (ok, one major exception, Brad Stevens).

I agree, who cares? Certainly not great form on Wojo's part but all he did was get real close to the ref and yell at him. This isn't exactly uncharted territory for college coaches. I'm sure this is something else that detractors will want to make a bigger deal than it really is. Though I can't blame anyone for poking fun at him for it. We would certainly unleash on Roy if he had done the same, but that would have a lot to do with his already somewhat asinine reputation.

loran16
02-14-2013, 09:13 AM
But when it's Karl Hess tossing two NCSU alums, all of a sudden everyone thinks they know EVERYTHING about what happened and who said what to whom, and it's perfectly acceptable to jump to the conclusion that Hess has rabbit ears and is a clown for taking decisive action.

I just find the double standards of college basketball fans when it comes to the officials to be a bit extreme at times.

Ummm, this isn't double standards. This isn't even close. The NCSU incident involved two people IN THE CROWD who were not members of the coaching staff. There is almost NOTHING the Alums could have said to justify removal by the referees - this is pretty much out of the referee's responsibility (That's actually on the staff at State's Arena really). That was totally inappropriate, regardless of the substance of the talk.

Here the substance matters - and the referee may have been justified in giving a T that he did not. But we can't know.

MaxAMillion
02-14-2013, 09:39 AM
I'm one of the biggest Duke fan's you'll find, but Wojo's actions during halftime to the referee Brian Kersey were flat-out embarrassing for the Duke program.

In case you missed it, SportsCenter tonight showed a clip of Wojo charging at Kersey as the teams were walking off the floor at halftime. Wojo put his forehead to Kersey's forehead in a "you want some?" kind of way almost daring Kersey to make a move. Coach K watched the whole thing unfold and did little-to-nothing to get between the two. As Wojo walked off, K continued to chastise Kersey, while Kersey engaged in some sort of "You better get your guy under control" conversation in response.

I'm sorry, but that's junior high rec-league kind of stuff on Duke's part. Kersey could have and probably should have tossed Wojo right then and there.

I will always be a Duke fan, but the disdain with which the Duke coaching staff treats officials on a semi-consistent basis is really disappointing.

Various places on Twitter are saying the tape of the incident will be send to the league office. I, personally, won't be surprised to see a suspension for Wojo come out of this.

Not cool.

I am surprised that Wojo did not get a technical. Going nose to nose like that rarely is allowed (even at halftime).

moonpie23
02-14-2013, 10:01 AM
look.....Wojo IS DUKE BASKETBALL!! i'm not saying he's the FACE of duke BB, i'm saying wojo and everything about him could be the logo.

I LOVED it when he got in kersey's face...... LOVED IT.....I think i could read his lips and it was something like:

"DANG IT BRIAN!!!!! OUR team is NOT fired up and i was wondering if you had ANY SUGGESTIONS WHAT-SO-FREAKING-EVER that i could pass along to the team during half time! WELL? DO YOU??????"



or something to that effect,......i am a bad lip reader...

regardless, someone needed to fire up the team.....wojo does not disappoint.

rthomas
02-14-2013, 10:14 AM
look.....Wojo IS DUKE BASKETBALL!! i'm not saying he's the FACE of duke BB, i'm saying wojo and everything about him could be the logo.

I LOVED it when he got in kersey's face...... LOVED IT.....I think i could read his lips and it was something like:

"DANG IT BRIAN!!!!! OUR team is NOT fired up and i was wondering if you had ANY SUGGESTIONS WHAT-SO-FREAKING-EVER that i could pass along to the team during half time! WELL? DO YOU??????"

or something to that effect,......i am a bad lip reader...

regardless, someone needed to fire up the team.....wojo does not disappoint.

Looks like they were talking to each other about the birthday presents they bought for Coach K. Coach K was looking on, so they had to get close to each other so Coach K couldn't hear. Then after Wojo left, Coach K approached Kersey and said, "Hey, what did Wojo say? Did he tell you what he was getting me for my birthday? Wait don't walk away, tell me what Wojo is getting me?"

Not a big deal.

mike88
02-14-2013, 10:22 AM
I am surprised that Wojo did not get a technical. Going nose to nose like that rarely is allowed (even at halftime).

I think the reason that Wojo didn't get T'd up is that it was Kersey who initiated the physical confrontation - I am actually surprised Kersey hasn't been disciplined by the ACC- you should never have physical contact in anger - too much can go wrong from there

buddy
02-14-2013, 10:32 AM
The end of the first half was very strange. (So was the last 1.7 of the second half, but that was much less consequential.) Both teams stopped playing momentarily as if they had heard a whistle. Then just like that they resumed play and Bullock missed a desperation three. Possibly Wojo had gotten on Kersey for that action, or that was just a culmination of a strange half. I did see the earlier confrontation, although from my vantage point in the north end zone I couldn't tell to whom it was directed. I did think it odd that we got whistled three times in the first 1:12 of the second half. Maybe that was Bryan's revenge.

tbyers11
02-14-2013, 10:36 AM
The end of the first half was very strange. (So was the last 1.7 of the second half, but that was much less consequential.) Both teams stopped playing momentarily as if they had heard a whistle. Then just like that they resumed play and Bullock missed a desperation three. Possibly Wojo had gotten on Kersey for that action, or that was just a culmination of a strange half. I did see the earlier confrontation, although from my vantage point in the north end zone I couldn't tell to whom it was directed. I did think it odd that we got whistled three times in the first 1:12 of the second half. Maybe that was Bryan's revenge.

Yes, it definitely appeared to me that McDonald double dribbled before passing the ball to Bullock for the desperation 3. If this was called we would have been inbounding in the front court with about 2 seconds left. Plenty of time to get a good shot off. Pretty sure that is what Wojo and K were "discussing" with Kersey.

ChillinDuke
02-14-2013, 10:38 AM
I guess I've never been one who believes cursing and gesturing demonstratively in a negative way at human beings should be an acceptable form of communication, no matter what job you're involved in.

I understand the need to "work" officials. But there are lots of ways to do it that don't involve treating with someone with disdain, which Coach K does on occasion. There have been countless coaches over the years who mastered the art of being able to psychologically influence officials without getting nasty, as I have observed Coach K and his assistants doing, both on TV and in person, many many times.

Do a lot of coaches do it? Absolutely. But I still don't think that makes it right.

I recognize Coach K isn't perfect. But I've always been the kind of person who believes a true "leader" treats all people around him/her with dignity and respect, no matter how heated the situation.

Sorry, but I do expect more from Coach K, as he presents himself as "a leader of men." There are literally dozens, maybe hundreds of ways I want my children to emulate the characteristics of Coach K.

But the way he treats officials is absolutely not one of them.

You call it indignation and disrespect.

I call it passion and care.

Potayto, Potahto.

- Chillin

camion
02-14-2013, 10:47 AM
I think the reason that Wojo didn't get T'd up is that it was Kersey who initiated the physical confrontation - I am actually surprised Kersey hasn't been disciplined by the ACC- you should never have physical contact in anger - too much can go wrong from there

Do we know which of the two initiated the confrontation?

That matters, a lot.

dyedwab
02-14-2013, 10:57 AM
But when it's Karl Hess tossing two NCSU alums, all of a sudden everyone thinks they know EVERYTHING about what happened and who said what to whom, and it's perfectly acceptable to jump to the conclusion that Hess has rabbit ears and is a clown for taking decisive action.


No, this issue here was far simpler than that. Hess took the almost unprecedented of throwing out a fans in the stands from a game - fans who, everyone will acknowledge, did not do something like throw something on the court which disrupted play. And they weren't any fans - they were two high profile former players who jerseys hung from the rafters of the very building from which they were tossed. And the ACC and Hess made never explained what went on.

I'm not one for requiring refs to explain everything - but the opacity of how referees are judged and make judgements is a problem.

Hess took an unusual action. Which, to me, required an explanation more than what was offered. Since I didn't hear it, I will assume that fans got tossed out a game for saying something the ref didn't like - and I believe that is appalling.

scarbo30
02-14-2013, 11:09 AM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8946485&categoryid=5595394

@ 1 minute mark.....

gus
02-14-2013, 11:20 AM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8946485&categoryid=5595394

@ 1 minute mark.....

I didn't have audio, but that sure looks like Kersey stopped Wojo, and that the encounter lasted about 2 seconds. Snow-peaked mole hill?

moonpie23
02-14-2013, 11:25 AM
i think kersey was grinning at k afterwards......

no harm no foul

-bdbd
02-14-2013, 11:32 AM
I'm one of the biggest Duke fan's you'll find, but Wojo's actions during halftime to the referee Brian Kersey were flat-out embarrassing for the Duke program.

In case you missed it, SportsCenter tonight showed a clip of Wojo charging at Kersey as the teams were walking off the floor at halftime. Wojo put his forehead to Kersey's forehead in a "you want some?" kind of way almost daring Kersey to make a move. Coach K watched the whole thing unfold and did little-to-nothing to get between the two. As Wojo walked off, K continued to chastise Kersey, while Kersey engaged in some sort of "You better get your guy under control" conversation in response.

I'm sorry, but that's junior high rec-league kind of stuff on Duke's part. Kersey could have and probably should have tossed Wojo right then and there.

I will always be a Duke fan, but the disdain with which the Duke coaching staff treats officials on a semi-consistent basis is really disappointing.

Various places on Twitter are saying the tape of the incident will be send to the league office. I, personally, won't be surprised to see a suspension for Wojo come out of this.

Not cool.

Sorry Jay, gotta disagree.
espn.go.com/video/clip?categor...&id=8946485

Here's the Stew Scott recap of the game. Despite the ESPN tradition of showing exclusively pro-winner highlights for 100% - 90% of the plays shown for a game, I'm astonished (not!) to report tht our buddy Stew, the very pinnacle of journalistic integrity (not!), actually shows more UNC highlighs than Duke in his retelling of the story...including leadng in with the" Devil head on a pike" over in CH, McAdoo (repeatedly) "schooling" MP2, and the unflattering view of Wojo heading into haltime... And he sneaks in at the end of the tale the IC line that "Yes, this was a #2 Duke team against an uranked Carolina one that only won by 5....(and Carolina cold have won b/c) they mssed 11 FT's..."

My main opoint is this: you will NEVER get a fair reporting of a Duke-UNC story from that guy.

But specifically on this string/story, though he refers to the UNC player as "maybe" double dribbling and he chooses to highlight the incident by showing a magnified shot of Wojo open-mouthed, as if shouting, face to face with the ref, Kersey, he does in-passing say that it was the REF WHO CUT OFF WOJO AS HE HEADED TO HALFTIME. I know it is confusing b/c you really don't see that in the video Stew shows, but to be fair to Wojo, you can read between the lines that the ref is the one who brought them face-to-face, and in fact is holdingWojo close in the photo.

Also, I see it diferent where you say K did do "little to nothing to get between the two....(then) K continued to chastie Kersey.." If it was in fact, Kersey initiating the contact, then the view becomes K waiting respectfully for that conversation to complete before entering itowhat appears to be a light converation with Kersey. I took it almost as a "Bad cop, good cop" play.

Not thrilled by the ESPN-magnfied shot of Wojo appearing to get in Kersey's grill, but just pointing out the nuances that show it may not have been as "in your face, nasty" as Stew Scott wants you to believe.

BD80
02-14-2013, 11:47 AM
My take is that Coach K is a MASTER at teaching communication skills.

Albert
02-14-2013, 11:48 AM
I'm no lip-reader, but . . .

I think when Kersey gets to the Coach, he his pointing his thumb to indicate Wojo, and says "I'm gonna throw his a** out."

DukeAlumBS
02-14-2013, 12:20 PM
Thank you for that comment!
Made my day still!

Nice day


Jimmy

rsvman
02-14-2013, 12:29 PM
I'm no lip-reader, but . . .

I think when Kersey gets to the Coach, he his pointing his thumb to indicate Wojo, and says "I'm gonna throw his a** out."

Well, I AM a lip-reader, and to me it was obvious that what he really said was "How's your grandma?"

-bdbd
02-14-2013, 01:47 PM
well, i am a lip-reader, and to me it was obvious that what he really said was "how's your grandma?"

lol!!! :)

weezie
02-14-2013, 01:57 PM
If Wojo had really been over the line, the ref would have given him a technical.


Kersey is in line to receive this year's "Quickest Whistle in the ACC" award. He was especially all-seeing mid-second half last night. What a talent.
My goodness, Brian made Karl look like a shrinking violet!

Zeb
02-14-2013, 02:03 PM
Imagine the uproar from an official calling a technical foul on the home team as both teams are walking off the floor. Tell me when was the last time you saw that happen? It just doesn't.



This very thing happened just eleven days ago in Champaign on Feb 3. Illinois received a technical at halftime when their bench screamed at the officials for some calls in the 1st half. The 2nd half opened with Wisconsin shooting foul shots. I don't need to imagine the uproar, because I was there--the Illini fans were pissed but its not like the world stopped.

elvis14
02-14-2013, 02:17 PM
i think kersey was grinning at k afterwards......

no harm no foul

I'd love to think that was the truth but the foul discrepancy in the second half (before UNC@CH starting fouling to stop the clock) was ridiculous. After seeing what happend with Wojo and hearing that he was previously told to quiet down, suddenly the second half makes more sense.

killerleft
02-14-2013, 02:23 PM
There's a difference between having "passion" for the game and physically confronting an official.

Players are allowed to be physical with each other. That's part of the game.

Coaches are not allowed to be physical with referees. Sorry, but no matter what color blue you bleed, that's unacceptable, and like I said, it's embarrassing for the program.

I got through it all right. Anybody else embarrassed for the program? You can just about bet that Coach K was orchestrating the whole thing. There was a reason behind it, and I trust Wojo and K were making a valid point in the way they thought was best.:)

Since there is a ready-made remedy for those who step over the line, Wojo and K must have stayed on the correct side of it.

OldSchool
02-14-2013, 03:01 PM
3182

No need to rely on lip readers, my source has provided the following transcript of the confrontation:

Wojo: He was out by a mile!

Kersey: Pine tar on the bat!

Wojo: More revenue!

Kersey: Less spending!

Wojo: Tastes great!

Kersey: Less filling!

Wojo: Deep dish!

Kersey: Thin crust!

Wojo: The Beatles!

Kersey: The Rolling Stones!

Wojo: Biggie!

Kersey: Tupac!

Wojo: LeBron!

Kersey: MJ!

Wojo: Joe Montana!

Kersey: Tom Brady!

Wojo: Look Kersey, reality is nothing but probabilities!

Kersey: Címon Wojo, God doesnít play dice with the universe!

Wojo: Turn in your badge, Kersey!

Kersey: Your mouthwash ainít cutting it, Wojo!

ChillinDuke
02-14-2013, 03:58 PM
Sorry Jay, gotta disagree.
espn.go.com/video/clip?categor...&id=8946485

Here's the Stew Scott recap of the game. Despite the ESPN tradition of showing exclusively pro-winner highlights for 100% - 90% of the plays shown for a game, I'm astonished (not!) to report tht our buddy Stew, the very pinnacle of journalistic integrity (not!), actually shows more UNC highlighs than Duke in his retelling of the story...including leadng in with the" Devil head on a pike" over in CH, McAdoo (repeatedly) "schooling" MP2, and the unflattering view of Wojo heading into haltime... And he sneaks in at the end of the tale the IC line that "Yes, this was a #2 Duke team against an uranked Carolina one that only won by 5....(and Carolina cold have won b/c) they mssed 11 FT's..."

My main opoint is this: you will NEVER get a fair reporting of a Duke-UNC story from that guy.

But specifically on this string/story, though he refers to the UNC player as "maybe" double dribbling and he chooses to highlight the incident by showing a magnified shot of Wojo open-mouthed, as if shouting, face to face with the ref, Kersey, he does in-passing say that it was the REF WHO CUT OFF WOJO AS HE HEADED TO HALFTIME. I know it is confusing b/c you really don't see that in the video Stew shows, but to be fair to Wojo, you can read between the lines that the ref is the one who brought them face-to-face, and in fact is holdingWojo close in the photo.

Also, I see it diferent where you say K did do "little to nothing to get between the two....(then) K continued to chastie Kersey.." If it was in fact, Kersey initiating the contact, then the view becomes K waiting respectfully for that conversation to complete before entering itowhat appears to be a light converation with Kersey. I took it almost as a "Bad cop, good cop" play.

Not thrilled by the ESPN-magnfied shot of Wojo appearing to get in Kersey's grill, but just pointing out the nuances that show it may not have been as "in your face, nasty" as Stew Scott wants you to believe.

I honestly took no issue with the Stew recap on ESPN. I've watched it just about every hour today - I especially get chills on the uproar from the Crazies when Tyler sweetstrokes the trey from the corner - and at no point do I see Stew spewing anything more than some tidbits of info that the mainstream viewers may find interesting and a fair assessment of the game.

1st Half: we didn't play well and were down. So Stew called it like that. Matchup to watch: Plumlee vs. McAdoo - listen, Plumlee didn't play overly well in the first half. Stew called it. To be fair - it was not "maybe" double-dribbling. Stew said, "looks like he double dribbled," and then points to Duke being rightfully ticked bout the call - leading into Wojo's segment.

2nd Half: we started clicking and came back. So Stew called it like that. He shows the necessary baseline reverse jam by McAdoo (basically anyone who watched the game knew that would be on the highlight); then your standard "Turning Point" and he says, "Duke won this game because of hustle" (Quinn Cook steal/foul); K and Cook firing up the crowd, "and it worked"; TT corner three - crowd going nuts; TT unreal pass to Cook (calls it "great"); Duke "popping threes"; Roy Williams frustrated; Seth Curry's "wettest jumper" in college ball; Coach K doesn't want fans to storm the court.

Interesting tidbits: K's 66th Bday, Blue Devil mascot head on a spike, Wojo's segment (called him "as fiery as anybody when he played for Coach K" - seems fair enough), Duke ranked while UNC wasn't but "these 2 teams always go at it hard", Duke reduction in turnovers and increased 3pt % in 2nd half were keys to the win.

I see no slant here. Fine with me.

- Chillin

Furniture
02-14-2013, 04:42 PM
I am not a lip reader but many times I see K having a go at a ref my bad lip reading skills do seem to read a lot of F this and F that. I do admit I could be wrong but if I am right what does everyone think? I think it's a little too much.

-jk
02-14-2013, 04:51 PM
I am not a lip reader but many times I see K having a go at a ref my bad lip reading skills do seem to read a lot of F this and F that. I do admit I could be wrong but if I am right what does everyone think? I think it's a little too much.

I would have to question your lip reading. "F-this" or "F-that" would be an insta-tech by pretty much any official. No hesitation. No question. Quick T.

-jk

duke79
02-14-2013, 05:03 PM
I guess a larger question here might be whether or not coaches "working the refs" during the course of the game really has any effect on what calls the refs might actually make during the game (and I know the Duke haters claim that Coach K manipulates the refs into giving Duke all the calls, but I'm not sure there is any evidence of this). I would think this strategy of working the refs could work in either direction - some refs might get irritated by a coach criticizing their calls during the course of the game and they, consciously or unconciously, tilt their calls against that coach's team. In other instances, I could see where coaches might be able to instill some doubt in the ref's mind about the calls they have made and the ref then begins to favor that team with his subsequent calls. I would guess it would depend partly on the way the coach tries to work the ref and partly on the psychological make-up of the ref. The fact that so many coaches (college and pro) seem to be working the refs during games leads me to believe that the coaches think they are having some positive effect on the calls that their teams get. I'm not sure how you could ever develop an experiment to see if it really pays to try to manipulate the refs, but it would be an interesting psychological exercise.

plimnko
02-14-2013, 05:04 PM
compared to what's happening 8 miles down the road, we have NOTHING to be embarrassed about. that said, i liked the intensity wojo displayed.

77devil
02-14-2013, 05:30 PM
Sorry Jay, gotta disagree.
espn.go.com/video/clip?categor...&id=8946485

Here's the Stew Scott recap of the game. Despite the ESPN tradition of showing exclusively pro-winner highlights for 100% - 90% of the plays shown for a game, I'm astonished (not!) to report tht our buddy Stew, the very pinnacle of journalistic integrity (not!), actually shows more UNC highlighs than Duke in his retelling of the story...including leadng in with the" Devil head on a pike" over in CH, McAdoo (repeatedly) "schooling" MP2, and the unflattering view of Wojo heading into haltime... And he sneaks in at the end of the tale the IC line that "Yes, this was a #2 Duke team against an uranked Carolina one that only won by 5....(and Carolina cold have won b/c) they mssed 11 FT's..."

My main opoint is this: you will NEVER get a fair reporting of a Duke-UNC story from that guy.

But specifically on this string/story, though he refers to the UNC player as "maybe" double dribbling and he chooses to highlight the incident by showing a magnified shot of Wojo open-mouthed, as if shouting, face to face with the ref, Kersey, he does in-passing say that it was the REF WHO CUT OFF WOJO AS HE HEADED TO HALFTIME. I know it is confusing b/c you really don't see that in the video Stew shows, but to be fair to Wojo, you can read between the lines that the ref is the one who brought them face-to-face, and in fact is holdingWojo close in the photo.

Also, I see it diferent where you say K did do "little to nothing to get between the two....(then) K continued to chastie Kersey.." If it was in fact, Kersey initiating the contact, then the view becomes K waiting respectfully for that conversation to complete before entering itowhat appears to be a light converation with Kersey. I took it almost as a "Bad cop, good cop" play.

Not thrilled by the ESPN-magnfied shot of Wojo appearing to get in Kersey's grill, but just pointing out the nuances that show it may not have been as "in your face, nasty" as Stew Scott wants you to believe.

This story got some play on PTI. The video is crystal clear that Kersey came 10 to 12 feet across the court, pushing a UNC player out of the way in the process, to aggressively intercept and confront Wojo. Kersey put his hand and arm on Wojo to keep him from brushing by and ignoring Kersey. Kersey was way out of line and should be suspended. Wojo got in his face only after being physically confronted.

gus
02-14-2013, 06:12 PM
One little vignette from last night: after Mason picked up his fourth in a really foolish fashion, the camera cut to the bench. K was slumped back in his chair, looking at the court (I assume at Mason). Wojo was leaning forward with his face in his hands. I didn't notice Collins. I wonder what his reaction was. My guess is that he was stone faced.

I got a screen grab:

3184

oldnavy
02-14-2013, 06:16 PM
This story got some play on PTI. The video is crystal clear that Kersey came 10 to 12 feet across the court, pushing a UNC player out of the way in the process, to aggressively intercept and confront Wojo. Kersey put his hand and arm on Wojo to keep him from brushing by and ignoring Kersey. Kersey was way out of line and should be suspended. Wojo got in his face only after being physically confronted.

This is true. Wojo did not instigate that episode at all. Very clear that Kersey went well out of his way to get into Wojo's face and then wouldn't let Wojo walk away. That would also explain the no technical foul. Amazing how the guys on PTI missed that part of the story!

Furniture
02-14-2013, 08:25 PM
I would have to question your lip reading. "F-this" or "F-that" would be an insta-tech by pretty much any official. No hesitation. No question. Quick T.

-jk

Well I am glad to hear that my lip reading skills suck!
LOL.....

cptnflash
02-14-2013, 08:52 PM
I'm a late arriver to this thread (no fruit cup for me), but I'd like to offer my support to the OP. As a Duke fan, I too find Wojo's actions embarrassing. And for all those of you that are defending Wojo (and there are a number of you), ask yourself this... if one of John Calipari's assistants did the exact same thing, would you still defend him so vigorously?

mike88
02-14-2013, 08:56 PM
Well, I think both you and the OP are missing the story here - this is really about Kersey not Wojo

throatybeard
02-14-2013, 08:59 PM
I guess a larger question here might be whether or not coaches "working the refs" during the course of the game really has any effect on what calls the refs might actually make during the game (and I know the Duke haters claim that Coach K manipulates the refs into giving Duke all the calls, but I'm not sure there is any evidence of this). I would think this strategy of working the refs could work in either direction - some refs might get irritated by a coach criticizing their calls during the course of the game and they, consciously or unconciously, tilt their calls against that coach's team. In other instances, I could see where coaches might be able to instill some doubt in the ref's mind about the calls they have made and the ref then begins to favor that team with his subsequent calls. I would guess it would depend partly on the way the coach tries to work the ref and partly on the psychological make-up of the ref. The fact that so many coaches (college and pro) seem to be working the refs during games leads me to believe that the coaches think they are having some positive effect on the calls that their teams get. I'm not sure how you could ever develop an experiment to see if it really pays to try to manipulate the refs, but it would be an interesting psychological exercise.

SI did a statistical study of home-field advantage last year, and the only consistent finding across many sports was that the officials [probably subconsciously] favor the home team a little bit, depending on which sport as to the degree. They controlled for all sorts of things, such as foul shots in basketball. I'm not doing the article service here; it was really good.

moonpie23
02-14-2013, 09:00 PM
if cal had an assistant with wojo's lineage? Wojo's history? been instrumental in Cal's success for, what? 20 years?

absolutely.


Kersey started this thing.....he's the one that barked first....

can't believe some of y'all are tightening up over him getting barked back at............and you think it embarrasses the program?

i'mma gonna send wojo flowers...

throatybeard
02-14-2013, 09:03 PM
One little vignette from last night: after Mason picked up his fourth in a really foolish fashion, the camera cut to the bench. K was slumped back in his chair, looking at the court (I assume at Mason). Wojo was leaning forward with his face in his hands. I didn't notice Collins. I wonder what his reaction was. My guess is that he was stone faced.

At least they weren't all simultaneously smelling their fingers, as is often the case.

JNort
02-14-2013, 09:06 PM
What I see on the replay in Wojo saying something to the official as he is crossing the court and the official runs up to him then Wojo gets in his face. I love Wojo but this was embarrassing and unfortunately is getting to much press. There is a reason the tape is being reviewed to see whether a suspension needs to happen and its not because Kersey.

Ima Facultiwyfe
02-14-2013, 09:09 PM
if cal had an assistant with wojo's lineage? Wojo's history? been instrumental in Cal's success for, what? 20 years?

absolutely.


Kersey started this thing.....he's the one that barked first....

can't believe some of y'all are tightening up over him getting barked back at............and you think it embarrasses the program?

i'mma gonna send wojo flowers...

You betcha! We were watching it from the gitgo in Cameron. Not only did the ref give Wo a shove, but held him afterwards and Wojo made no physical move toward him. All he did was stand his ground and bark back. Coach K was standing nearby and calmly let it all play out with obvious confidence in his assistant's ability to handle himself, THEN he spoke with the ref and they parted company smiling.

Chill.
Love, Ima

WakeDevil
02-14-2013, 09:44 PM
Wojo's lineage? Okay, so now you're equating him with Bill Guthridge. Whatever floats your boat.

tbyers11
02-14-2013, 09:51 PM
What I see on the replay in Wojo saying something to the official as he is crossing the court and the official runs up to him then Wojo gets in his face. I love Wojo but this was embarrassing and unfortunately is getting to much press. There is a reason the tape is being reviewed to see whether a suspension needs to happen and its not because Kersey.

Really? Did we watch the same tape?

IMO, whomever one thinks was the instigator this is really a non-story magnified by a freeze frame blow up of Wojo's face by ESPN. Officials and coaches (and assistant coaches) have heated exchanges like this all the time in games. However, most of them are not dissected like the Zapruder film. I would be shocked if any disciplinary action is taken against either Wojo or Kersey.

Duvall
02-14-2013, 09:56 PM
I'm a late arriver to this thread (no fruit cup for me), but I'd like to offer my support to the OP. As a Duke fan, I too find Wojo's actions embarrassing. And for all those of you that are defending Wojo (and there are a number of you), ask yourself this... if one of John Calipari's assistants did the exact same thing, would you still defend him so vigorously?

No, because ESPN would never have brought it up.

BuschDevil
02-15-2013, 12:08 AM
I think Wojo was saying "Man, I've really gotta pee. Get out of my way!"

Either that or Kersey is asking Wojo "Can I have this dance?" and Wojo is simply saying "No, but thanks any way."

Seriously, I do think this is, to quote Gus from earlier in this thread, a "snow-peaked mole hill". It is really hard to tell from the video anything concrete, so unless Kersey or Wojo decide to tell the world what really transpired, everything is mere speculation. Then again, that's what we fans love to do, so what the heck. The video does seem to show Wojo right in Kersey's face for a second, but the nature of what is being said is a mystery. But, ok, so Wojo maybe shouldn't be all up in an official's grill, and an official shouldn't be laying his sweaty hands on Wojo, but really, does anything here rise to the level of embarassment? Nope. An athletic & acedemic cheating scandal... now that is embarassing. This stuff just rates a rye smile & a slight shake of the head, nothing more. What I do have a problem with is the way the freeze-frame pic is being throw about as if it showed anything conclussive. Video seems to me to lose some depth when frozen. It is especially hard for me to tell from ESPN's close-up freeze-frame if Wojo is really smack in Kersey's face or offset to the left side some, in which case his yelling in a load environment towards someone's ear seems more natural. It just looks to me like a single freeze-frame is inadequate, but ESPN will use it a million times because it is good for ratings, and haters will use it because it supports in their own minds that hate so they can feel better about their pathetic selves. Ok, that was a bit harsh. Cue the rye smile & slight head shake.

-bdbd
02-15-2013, 12:37 AM
Really? Did we watch the same tape?

IMO, whomever one thinks was the instigator this is really a non-story magnified by a freeze frame blow up of Wojo's face by ESPN. Officials and coaches (and assistant coaches) have heated exchanges like this all the time in games. However, most of them are not dissected like the Zapruder film. I would be shocked if any disciplinary action is taken against either Wojo or Kersey.

Really, really agree with this assessment. As I explained in great detail back in post #44 in this thread, there were quite a few distortions coming from UNC-homer, ESPN's Stewart Scott, who did the post-game editing/reporting. And my conclusion was that "You will NEVER get fair and accurate reporting from this guy in a Duke-Carolina story."

He just has too much of a track record being a totally one-sided and, in my mind, biased to the point of dishonesty, reporter of events. I trust nothing he says. And watch for his selective, agenda-driven editing of highlights with a large grain or two of salt every time. :mad:

That said, this is really a non-story, only "created" by the slanted telling of the tale by ESPN's Stew Scott. I have seen much, much worse exchanges between coaches, and refs & coaches, with nary an action taken to discipline either. The uniqueness of this transpiring well after the halftime horn also serves to push it toward no-action-warranted status going either way. Yawn.

throatybeard
02-15-2013, 01:03 AM
However, most of them are not dissected like the Zapruder film.

I like to identify when someone does a really good job on these boards. Hats off, sir (or ma'am?)

JStuart
02-15-2013, 05:59 AM
I think Wojo was saying "Man, I've really gotta pee. Get out of my way!"

Either that or Kersey is asking Wojo "Can I have this dance?" and Wojo is simply saying "No, but thanks any way."

Seriously, I do think this is, to quote Gus from earlier in this thread, a "snow-peaked mole hill". It is really hard to tell from the video anything concrete, so unless Kersey or Wojo decide to tell the world what really transpired, everything is mere speculation. Then again, that's what we fans love to do, so what the heck. The video does seem to show Wojo right in Kersey's face for a second, but the nature of what is being said is a mystery. But, ok, so Wojo maybe shouldn't be all up in an official's grill, and an official shouldn't be laying his sweaty hands on Wojo, but really, does anything here rise to the level of embarassment? Nope. An athletic & acedemic cheating scandal... now that is embarassing. This stuff just rates a rye smile & a slight shake of the head, nothing more. What I do have a problem with is the way the freeze-frame pic is being throw about as if it showed anything conclussive. Video seems to me to lose some depth when frozen. It is especially hard for me to tell from ESPN's close-up freeze-frame if Wojo is really smack in Kersey's face or offset to the left side some, in which case his yelling in a load environment towards someone's ear seems more natural. It just looks to me like a single freeze-frame is inadequate, but ESPN will use it a million times because it is good for ratings, and haters will use it because it supports in their own minds that hate so they can feel better about their pathetic selves. Ok, that was a bit harsh. Cue the rye smile & slight head shake.

Does a rye smile imply that you've had a reuben sandwich for dinner?
yours wryly,
JStuart

oldnavy
02-15-2013, 06:11 AM
No, because ESPN would never have brought it up.

True. And if they did, and I saw a referee go out of his way to intercept the coach as he is walking away from him towards his locker room, and I see that same coach trying to move past the referee, and I see the referee hold the coach and prevent him from walking away, then YES I would feel the same way.

What part of Kersey's responsibility for this altercation do people not get. Wojo was going into the locker room. Kersey went out of his way to prevent Wojo from walking off the court. The referee has no right to physically impead Wojo or anyother coach. Kersey got what he deserved. In fact, Kersey should probably be reprimanded for causing the whole thing to happen in the first place. If he needed to say something to Wojo, he should have waited until the coaches came back out and were on the bench. Then he could have called K, Collins, Wojo all together and said what he needed to say.

Kersey was clearly in the wrong on this, any one that thinks Wojo embarassed Duke is not looking at the events that led up to the freeze frame shot. There is always more to a story than one single picture frame and what a bunch of hack media types spin from it. If you did see it all unfold and still think Wojo was wrong, then we have different ideas about how someone should respond to being physically blocked from leaving a volital situation.

basket1544
02-15-2013, 06:34 AM
If they had assessed a tech on Wojo, the ref getting an ear-ful from Roy would have also needed to T Roy up. I don't know why it isn't being talked about more, but after the buzzer sounded none of the coaches went toward the locker rooms. While Chris did the interview and Wojo and Kersey went at it with Coach K backing Wojo up, another ref and Roy went at it as well. I think that's part of this rivalry game where every possession is so important.

Tripping William
02-15-2013, 07:00 AM
The one thought I can't get out of my head is what Andre Buckner might have done to Kersey had he been there. Kersey is a lucky, lucky man.

moonpie23
02-15-2013, 07:08 AM
or spreewell

Durham Thunder
02-15-2013, 09:03 AM
I liked Michael Wilbon's assessment, that the Lieutenant was doing the work of the General, and saving Coach K the trouble of arguing and risking ejection.

Kind of like West Side Story.

dukeofcalabash
02-15-2013, 09:48 AM
Right or wrong, passion plays a very important part of winning a basketball game. I only wish that our players brought more passion to every game for every play. Of course, we all know that won't change as the players are who they are. If it continues, the slow starts, the poor early shooting, the "red cape" defense, all of these will add up to an early exit come tournament time. Of course, it takes enough talent along with enough passion for the winning combination. Coaches displaying passion can be a valued guide for players to follow on the court against the other team. That's what every team is bringing to the games against Duke, plenty of passion, whereas the Duke players seem to want to be "cool" and "measure" passion out as needed.

elvis14
02-15-2013, 10:15 AM
Well the OP got one thing right, this "incident" was embarrassing. Of course, it was embarrassing for Kersey and Stewie Scott, UNC Homer.

Way to go Wojo!

weezie
02-15-2013, 10:39 AM
Kind of like West Side Story.

Haha, que the finger snapping...."When you're a Devil, you're a Devil all the way from your first 'GO TO HELL' to your last dying day!"

DukeAlumBS
02-15-2013, 11:12 AM
My friends,

That was funny as hell. I wrote it down for my use.
Have nice day

Jimmy

Turtleboy
02-15-2013, 01:08 PM
This is true. Wojo did not instigate that episode at all. Very clear that Kersey went well out of his way to get into Wojo's face and then wouldn't let Wojo walk away. That would also explain the no technical foul. Amazing how the guys on PTI missed that part of the story!I have e-mailed PTI to request that they review the video again and see if they still think Wojo instigated the confrontation. Whatever results I'll share.

A-Tex Devil
02-15-2013, 01:37 PM
- Wojo was pissed and walked "at" Kersey, probably just enough so he'd be clearly seen on the way to locker room.

- Kersey stops Wojo and says something to him.

- Wojo either screams at Kersey or gets caught in a yawn. Not sure which. We can dissect what that wide open mouth means all night long. We don't know, and it doesn't matter because Kersey didn't think it was enough to throw him out or T him up at that time.

- Kersey says to K, "I'm gonna throw his a$% out," and K and Kersey have a lengthy chat at the end of half.


/thread.

oldnavy
02-15-2013, 02:13 PM
- Wojo was pissed and walked "at" Kersey, probably just enough so he'd be clearly seen on the way to locker room.

- Kersey stops Wojo and says something to him.

- Wojo either screams at Kersey or gets caught in a yawn. Not sure which. We can dissect what that wide open mouth means all night long. We don't know, and it doesn't matter because Kersey didn't think it was enough to throw him out or T him up at that time.

- Kersey says to K, "I'm gonna throw his a$% out," and K and Kersey have a lengthy chat at the end of half.


/thread.

I don't see Wojo walking toward Kersey and I have looked at it about 10 times. The coaching staff have to go to the opposite end diagonally to get into the locker room. Wojo could have easily gone more towards Kersey if he wanted too.

Kersey is clearly the one that goes towards Wojo. He actually holds out his arms to stop Wojo. What I cannot tell (nor can anyone else) is if Wojo was yelling at Kersey while he was walking and that is the reason Kersey came to Wojo... could very well be that Wojo was calling him all sorts of names or perhaps he had said something during the game that Kersey wanted to clear up??

I feel about 99.999% sure that Wojo was not saying nice things to Kersey AFTER Kersey stopped him. My issue is that I don't care what he was saying and I am not sure why anyone else would. At that point Kersey is "asking" for it by stopping Wojo. I believe that Kersey knows that he was asking for it and that is why he didn't T up Wojo. Good for Kersey, I think that shows a lot of self confidence and poise on his part.

As far as the theory that Wojo was doing K's dirty work, well maybe... Bob Green (and others) can tell you that in the Navy (military) that the XO's (Executive Officer, 2nd in commnd) job is to be the bad guy, and the CO's (Commanding Officer) is usually the more genteal fatherly role (not always, but in general). So maybe it was part of playing the role, or maybe Wojo was just really mad at some really bad no calls!!

Sixthman
02-15-2013, 02:20 PM
I don't see Wojo walking toward Kersey and I have looked at it about 10 times. The coaching staff have to go to the opposite end diagonally to get into the locker room. Wojo could have easily gone more towards Kersey if he wanted too.

Kersey is clearly the one that goes towards Wojo. He actually holds out his arms to stop Wojo. What I cannot tell (nor can anyone else) is if Wojo was yelling at Kersey while he was walking and that is the reason Kersey came to Wojo... could very well be that Wojo was calling him all sorts of names or perhaps he had said something during the game that Kersey wanted to clear up??

I feel about 99.999% sure that Wojo was not saying nice things to Kersey AFTER Kersey stopped him. My issue is that I don't care what he was saying and I am not sure why anyone else would. At that point Kersey is "asking" for it by stopping Wojo. I believe that Kersey knows that he was asking for it and that is why he didn't T up Wojo. Good for Kersey, I think that shows a lot of self confidence and poise on his part.

As far as the theory that Wojo was doing K's dirty work, well maybe... Bob Green (and others) can tell you that in the Navy (military) that the XO's (Executive Officer, 2nd in commnd) job is to be the bad guy, and the CO's (Commanding Officer) is usually the more genteal fatherly role (not always, but in general). So maybe it was part of playing the role, or maybe Wojo was just really mad at some really bad no calls!!

I was at the game and there was no doubt in my mind at the time that Kersey went toward Wojo and stoped him, and Wojo made numerous attempts to walk away from the conversation in a direct line toward the locker room and Kersey blocked him.

devilsadvocate85
02-15-2013, 02:21 PM
- Wojo was pissed and walked "at" Kersey, probably just enough so he'd be clearly seen on the way to locker room.

- Kersey stops Wojo and says something to him.

- Wojo either screams at Kersey or gets caught in a yawn. Not sure which. We can dissect what that wide open mouth means all night long. We don't know, and it doesn't matter because Kersey didn't think it was enough to throw him out or T him up at that time.

- Kersey says to K, "I'm gonna throw his a$% out," and K and Kersey have a lengthy chat at the end of half.


/thread.


I recorded the ACC Network broadcast while I was at the game. On tape, I saw the same thing that I saw live. Wojo was almost to the mid-court circle, Kersey was over near the scorers table. Suddenly Kersey makes a quick change of direction and has to dodge a few people to intercept Wojo. This is when the confrontation starts. Wojo never, I repeat never, was headed even remotely in Kersey's direction. He wasn't even looking at him and didn't even appear to be saying anything at that point.

oldnavy
02-15-2013, 02:34 PM
I recorded the ACC Network broadcast while I was at the game. On tape, I saw the same thing that I saw live. Wojo was almost to the mid-court circle, Kersey was over near the scorers table. Suddenly Kersey makes a quick change of direction and has to dodge a few people to intercept Wojo. This is when the confrontation starts. Wojo never, I repeat never, was headed even remotely in Kersey's direction. He wasn't even looking at him and didn't even appear to be saying anything at that point.

Thanks for the input. I agree, this is really not much of a story, the problem is that it made the national news and is a very clear example of bias in reporting. Anyone who believes what they hear or even see on the news is setting themselves up to be dupped these days. Sad but true. There is no outlet for news that isn't spinning issues one way or the other.

Duke79UNLV77
02-15-2013, 03:57 PM
I recorded the ACC Network broadcast while I was at the game. On tape, I saw the same thing that I saw live. Wojo was almost to the mid-court circle, Kersey was over near the scorers table. Suddenly Kersey makes a quick change of direction and has to dodge a few people to intercept Wojo. This is when the confrontation starts. Wojo never, I repeat never, was headed even remotely in Kersey's direction. He wasn't even looking at him and didn't even appear to be saying anything at that point.

Is there a video clip that could be posted? Thanks.

oldnavy
02-15-2013, 04:33 PM
Is there a video clip that could be posted? Thanks.

If you can access ESPN3 the whole game is available on the replay tab.... I recorded it off the TV, but had to go to ESPN3 to pull up the first part of the game since I deleted the recording by mistake.

I had to show my knuckle head, brain washed son that Mason was not schooled or even played well by McAdoo.... seems he thinks Mason is aweful as a post player. Yes he has drank the Kool Aid.

He asked me to name two post moves that Mason has. I said he has a hook and he has an up and under. He claimed the hook was only effective from two feet, which I went to the replay to show him it was about 7-8 feet, not two. Also, had to show him that the crowd did not in fact storm the court. Even faced with irrefutable evidence, he will not budge off the Mason comments, he did acknowledge that the students didn't storm the court however.

Moral of the story, even when proven wrong, UNC fans are right.

Not sure where I went wrong with that child, but I blame it on his mom!!

Bob Green
02-15-2013, 04:48 PM
Dead horse, DBR. DBR, dead horse.

A-Tex Devil
02-15-2013, 04:58 PM
I recorded the ACC Network broadcast while I was at the game. On tape, I saw the same thing that I saw live. Wojo was almost to the mid-court circle, Kersey was over near the scorers table. Suddenly Kersey makes a quick change of direction and has to dodge a few people to intercept Wojo. This is when the confrontation starts. Wojo never, I repeat never, was headed even remotely in Kersey's direction. He wasn't even looking at him and didn't even appear to be saying anything at that point.

Sorry --- I should not have included #1. I agree with everyone in this thread. My main point was nothing worth anything happened. Thus the "/thread."

allenmurray
02-15-2013, 08:13 PM
And of course, once proven wrong by videotape, the original poster jay promptly leaves the thread, never to return. The mark of a genuine troll.

DukeDevilDeb
02-15-2013, 08:40 PM
And of course, once proven wrong by videotape, the original poster jay promptly leaves the thread, never to return. The mark of a genuine troll.

Great line... I've been reading and asking myself... where the heck is Jay now that he got this all started?

Mods, lock this thread. Enough is enough!

Go Devils!

jay
02-16-2013, 08:33 AM
And of course, once proven wrong by videotape, the original poster jay promptly leaves the thread, never to return. The mark of a genuine troll.

Congrats. One of the most seasoned posters on the board has used one of the most tired and intellectually lazy debate tactics: If he doesn't respond back, he must be a troll.

I assure you, sir, I am no troll. I actually have a life that involves a job and two kids under 5 years old and a wife who is battling a chronic illness. I apologize for not being able to devote most of my Friday to rebutting internet message board posts.

I have other thoughts about this subject, even more reasoned ones now that I've reviewed more of the video and read some of the responses in this thread. But, honestly, what's the point? It's clear that the vast majority of posters at least in this thread believe that Wojo can do no wrong and the refs can do no right. Nothing I say is going to change that fact.

I'd rather spend time with my kids than arguing with people who are already convinced I'm a troll anyway.

jipops
02-16-2013, 08:46 AM
Congrats. One of the most seasoned posters on the board has used one of the most tired and intellectually lazy debate tactics: If he doesn't respond back, he must be a troll.

I assure you, sir, I am no troll. I actually have a life that involves a job and two kids under 5 years old and a wife who is battling a chronic illness. I apologize for not being able to devote most of my Friday to rebutting internet message board posts.

I have other thoughts about this subject, even more reasoned ones now that I've reviewed more of the video and read some of the responses in this thread. But, honestly, what's the point? It's clear that the vast majority of posters at least in this thread believe that Wojo can do no wrong and the refs can do no right. Nothing I say is going to change that fact.

I'd rather spend time with my kids than arguing with people who are already convinced I'm a troll anyway.

I think you are exaggerating the other posts here. Nobody claimed Wojo has a halo over his head. But the video of the scene does not support your accusations. It seemed you were responding to the focus of the ESPN highlight which was only a still image.

moonpie23
02-16-2013, 08:53 AM
Congrats. One of the most seasoned posters on the board has used one of the most tired and intellectually lazy debate tactics: If he doesn't respond back, he must be a troll.

I assure you, sir, I am no troll. I actually have a life that involves a job and two kids under 5 years old and a wife who is battling a chronic illness. I apologize for not being able to devote most of my Friday to rebutting internet message board posts.

I have other thoughts about this subject, even more reasoned ones now that I've reviewed more of the video and read some of the responses in this thread. But, honestly, what's the point? It's clear that the vast majority of posters at least in this thread believe that Wojo can do no wrong and the refs can do no right. Nothing I say is going to change that fact.

I'd rather spend time with my kids than arguing with people who are already convinced I'm a troll anyway.

sorry to hear of your family troubles, but, we not disagreeing with you because we think wojo is perfect. we're disagreeing with you because you're wrong...

JBDuke
02-16-2013, 10:02 AM
There seems to be nothing useful that can be accomplished by leaving this thread open any longer, as the discussion has boiled down to pure differences of opinion. If a poster believes they have something of substance to add to this discussion, please PM me or one of the other mods, and we'll discuss reopening the thread.