Harry Potter SPOILERS !!! REPEAT SPOILERS!!

[Windsor]

Just finished it (I'm getting too old to pull all nighters). Excellent book

I was dead wrong on pretty much everything I thought was going to happen except Snape being a good guy (for the love of Lily) and Harry's survival....although I will admit to a few week pages after Voldermort 'killed' him.

Taking a nap....I'm trying to think if there are any loose ends that didn't get tied up ... perhaps someone with a clearer head then mine will find them

[Windsor]

Now that I'm more awake....

I really didn't like 'carrying the Syltherin lock changes your personality nonsense'...been there, read that...something about a ring and hobbits.

I liked the house elves playing a real role in the story (did she have to Dobby off...that made me sadder than anyone else)

I was surprised Dumbledore wasn't more involved - his brother as the bartender blindsided me completely.

I expected more out of Petunia...I thought she was going to turn out to be magical like Lily...but they did cover why she was anti Wizard.


Never would have guessed that at Malfoy would save the day.

I thought Snape would end up as a 'good guy' but Rowling did an amazing job of turning him from a evil character to an almost tragic one in a few pages. Loved the Snape memories!

I expected to be sad that the story was over, but it ended so well I was satisfied that it had been told beginning to end...I think writing anything else about those characters would tarnish the tale.

All in all...Good triumphed over evil, Hope over came despair, paper covered rock, Voldemort died, Harry lived and if there were ewoks they would have sung!

[Dukerati]

Ugh, I had a horrible experience obtaining the book and was exhausted by the time I actually got it two hours later than I wanted to. Thus, sleep overtook me about an hour in. Curse you Windsor for beating me to the punch:)

My first and overwhelming thought (other than the finality of it all) was that this book would make a great movie. At times, I felt like JK Rowling was writing a script complete with action shots and laugh cues. As for its literary merit, I thought it was really strong and was a fitting conclusion although I had minor quibbles abound (Mrs. Weasley taking down Bellatrix as everyone watched. Really? And it was incredibly annoying to watch the good guys just let the bad guys go and then fight them again later on. How are you supposed to win a war like that?)

The book DID take the easy way out and will most likely appease the majority of the Potter world but just because something is easy does not mean it is not the way to go. I applaud JK for a job well done.

[Windsor]

I thought it was really strong and was a fitting conclusion although I had minor quibbles abound (Mrs. Weasley taking down Bellatrix as everyone watched. Really? And it was incredibly annoying to watch the good guys just let the bad guys go and then fight them again later on. How are you supposed to win a war like that?)


I took the Mrs. Weasley taking out Bellatrix as a full circle on the power of a mother, she says something like 'leave my children alone you I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.' and then blasts her with power beyond what she normally could have mustered...plays to the whole power of mother love theme.

I agree with letting the bad guys live...I was initially annoyed when he saved Draco..but of course it played out well in the end.

I have always thought that Harry died in JK Rowling's original concept but I think based on popularity and the legions of fans she just could not do it.

It will make an excellent movie. I agree that at times she is almost writing a movie script. Deathly Hallows will probably the movie truest to the book of all of them

Sorry about beating you to the review:) I guess I can thank my Barnes and Noble.

[snowdenscold]

Overall pretty good.
Things I could do without: the locket as some sort of LotR ring of power, the WWII / Nazi Germany parallels, the entire first half of the book...

OK, that seems a bit harsh. But seriously, were I to reread it - unless I was just really in the mood for some H/He/R interaction study, I would skip most of the 3 of them wandering around for like 40000 pages.

Things I called: Snape was good (not really a big surprise there - though I had no idea he liked Lily) and he died, Neville's act of heroicism (didn't know how it was gonna play out - but I knew he was gonna do something big), the repayment of Pettigrew's debt, none of the Golden Trio dying, and the importance of saving Draco.

Though I really did expect more of a redemption story out of Draco. I fully expected a Darth Vader like turn to good by the end and him helping bring down Voldy. Oh well.

I found the Dumbledore backstory quite interested and unexpected (though Aberforth being the Hogs Head barman was no surprise).

Is it sad that I completely glossed over the part where Lupin and Tonks died? It wasn't till like 2 chapters later when Harry mentioned it that I was like "wait - huh - what happened?" My bad...

[highlandangel]

I figured out Lupin dying when Harry activates the stone and sees his dad, mom, Sirius and Lupin - and I've already lent my book to someone, so I don't remember what is was called, but missed Tonks. I think that there was a point when they were taking care of the bodies that it came up. But it slipped by me too at first.

[Olympic Fan]

Just after two a.m. Sunday morning and I have to leave town at 10, so this will be short.

Got my copy from Amazon at 3:30 p.m., almost perfect timing -- just as I was finishing up re-reading the Half-Blood Prince.

Overall, very satisfied ... I was a little surprised that so many of the key figures survived. Hated to lose Mad-eye, Tonks, Lupin, Dobby and Fred ... JKR was quoted as saying the Weasley family that was in the firing line, but they came out okay, compared to the Tonks' family -- Lupin, Tonks and Tonks' father, Ted ... that's rough.

I was wrong about Harry being a horcrux -- but I can accept that he was not an INTENTIONAL horcrux. It makes sense that he accidentally captured part of Voldemort's soulk.

I agree that the ending appears shaped as a film finish ... it will be a sensational scene when the dead Harry reveals himself in the Great Hall, just before his final duel with Voldemort.

Also a great job redeeming Snape -- I was never quite sure how JKR was going to bring that off in a believable fashion, but she did.

Again, a satisfying end to a classic series of books.

[JBDuke]

I figured out Lupin dying when Harry activates the stone and sees his dad, mom, Sirius and Lupin - and I've already lent my book to someone, so I don't remember what is was called, but missed Tonks. I think that there was a point when they were taking care of the bodies that it came up. But it slipped by me too at first.

Yeah, it's mentioned when Harry, Ron, and Hermione enter the Great Hall after having been to the Shrieking Shack and seeing Snape get killed. The Weasley family is all clustered around Fred's body, and Ron and Hermione immediately go over there. Harry moves in that direction and there's a quick mention of him seeing the bodies of Remus and Tonks next to Fred. I, too, missed this on the first go-around, but caught it at the second mention, when Harry is pondering his death before he goes into the Forest. (and before he summons his parents, Sirius, and Remus using the Resurrection Stone)

[pacificrounder]

One thing that really, really bothered me was in the epilogue. There was a quick mention of Harry and Ginny's kids seeing Teddy down the platform, which begged the question - who raised him? It seemed to me that JKR made it a point to create a paralell between Teddy and Harry: parents both died at the hands of Voldemort, both have Godfather's that were great wizards, both were orphaned very young. So it seemed to me like Harry and Ginny should've raised Teddy, especially since Harry got so much pleasure out of being with his Godfather, Sirius. Maybe I missed something at some point in the epilogue (I was reading at a blistering pace the whole way through the book), but that just sort of bothered me.

Also, I really enjoyed Snape's final scene. The memories pouring out of him was a really great idea on JKR's part and I enjoyed reading about them. Still, I think Snape's venomous attitude toward Harry was a bit over the top throughout the series given how much he supposedly loved his Mother.

Overall though, I really, reall enjoyed it. I liked it a lot more than OOTP and HBP, not sure yet where I would rank it among the other four.

[bhd28]

One thing that really, really bothered me was in the epilogue. There was a quick mention of Harry and Ginny's kids seeing Teddy down the platform, which begged the question - who raised him? It seemed to me that JKR made it a point to create a paralell between Teddy and Harry: parents both died at the hands of Voldemort, both have Godfather's that were great wizards, both were orphaned very young. So it seemed to me like Harry and Ginny should've raised Teddy, especially since Harry got so much pleasure out of being with his Godfather, Sirius. Maybe I missed something at some point in the epilogue (I was reading at a blistering pace the whole way through the book), but that just sort of bothered me.

Also, I really enjoyed Snape's final scene. The memories pouring out of him was a really great idea on JKR's part and I enjoyed reading about them. Still, I think Snape's venomous attitude toward Harry was a bit over the top throughout the series given how much he supposedly loved his Mother.

Overall though, I really, reall enjoyed it. I liked it a lot more than OOTP and HBP, not sure yet where I would rank it among the other four.
Snape was a pretty tortured guy. Maybe Harry looking soooo much like his dad was just too much. He may have been the son of the woman he loved, but he was a constant reminder of the guy that kept him from having a chance with her.

[Bostondevil]

One thing that really, really bothered me was in the epilogue. There was a quick mention of Harry and Ginny's kids seeing Teddy down the platform, which begged the question - who raised him?

Someone does say Our Teddy? I took that to mean he was raised by Harry with help from the Weasleys. Sorry we didn't see a tiny bit of George in the epilogue. I'd love to hear if he kept up the joke shop, maybe with Lee Jordan.

I was prepared for 2 major characters to die, when Mad-Eye Moody died, I thought, OK, that's early, is that one? I kept waiting for him to make a later appearance without his eye. When Dobby died, I thought, OK, that's definitely one. When Fred died, I went, Ok, there's two, when Remus and Tonks were laid out next to Fred, I thought, OK, define a major character cause we haven't even gotten to Snape yet. Didn't everybody predict Snape as likely to go? He was on my list although the Weasley I was betting on was Percy (got the last minute change of heart right though). I figure with Percy's change of heart coming, Draco's might have been overkill. The Malfoys were cowed at the end, just wanting to survive. You can't really say they had a change of heart but they weren't really fighting for Voldemort in the end either.

[Windsor]

The Malfoys were cowed at the end, just wanting to survive. You can't really say they had a change of heart but they weren't really fighting for Voldemort in the end either.

Draco refuses to confirm Harry/Herminoe/Ron's identies - giving a 'they might be' rather than a positive ID.

It was Narcissa Malfoy who lied to Voldemort and said Harry was dead, had she not done that Harry would have been dead for good.

[Jfrosh]

I was really worried halfway through the book, it was so dark and had barely answered any questions, and raised many more. 3/4 through and I couldn't figure how she could resolve the whole Snape business (I knew he had to be good). Brilliant to put it in a pensieve and resolve in a few pages. I also liked how it resolved Harry having to die to kill Voldemorts soul within him but that Voldemort actually saved him because a part of Harry was actually within him. Despite the slow moving nature of the 1st half of the book, I was very satisfied with the ending and really enjoyed it overall.

[snowdenscold]

One thing that really, really bothered me was in the epilogue. There was a quick mention of Harry and Ginny's kids seeing Teddy down the platform, which begged the question - who raised him? It seemed to me that JKR made it a point to create a paralell between Teddy and Harry: parents both died at the hands of Voldemort, both have Godfather's that were great wizards, both were orphaned very young. So it seemed to me like Harry and Ginny should've raised Teddy, especially since Harry got so much pleasure out of being with his Godfather, Sirius. Maybe I missed something at some point in the epilogue (I was reading at a blistering pace the whole way through the book), but that just sort of bothered me.

Remember the other person who lost both his parents to Voldy when he was only a baby? Teddy could have been raised by his grandmother like Neville was, and then just have hung out at the Potter's a lot...



Also, can someone give the page # of where Draco didn't reveal identities? I don't quite remember that.


Oh, another thing that I find interesting in the series - how young all the adults would have to be. I guess wizards just start families early or something, but Harry's parents died at age 21, so Harry would have been born when they were 20. It probably doesn't help that in the 3rd movie, Lupin, Pettigrew and Sirius definitely don't look only 33! (despite the aging effect Azkeban had on Sirius...) Nor do Harry's parents look 21 in photographs / the mirror. And I absolutely love Alan Rickman, but he has not been between 31 and 35 these past 5 movies.

One final thing - who is everyone's kid at the end? H/G have James, Albus and Lily. R/H have Hugo and Rose. So who is Victoire? I assume it's Bill and Fleur's daughter, but I couldn't confirm that.

[Jfrosh]

Also, can someone give the page # of where Draco didn't reveal identities? I don't quite remember that.



Page 459
It definitely was not pleasant for those around Vodemort. I could see why the Malfoys may have had second thoughts about helping him, of course they obviously could not openly oppose him.

[JBDuke]

One thing that really, really bothered me was in the epilogue. There was a quick mention of Harry and Ginny's kids seeing Teddy down the platform, which begged the question - who raised him? It seemed to me that JKR made it a point to create a paralell [sic] between Teddy and Harry: parents both died at the hands of Voldemort, both have Godfather's that were great wizards, both were orphaned very young. So it seemed to me like Harry and Ginny should've raised Teddy, especially since Harry got so much pleasure out of being with his Godfather, Sirius. Maybe I missed something at some point in the epilogue (I was reading at a blistering pace the whole way through the book), but that just sort of bothered me.

...

It bothered me, too, until I realized that Teddy would be 19 at the time of the epilogue, and therefore, he's of age and may very well not be living with the family. James, Harry and Ginny's oldest, call's him "our Teddy", so they're obviously still very close. I suspect that Victoire, who James calls "our cousin" (and also due to the Frankish name) is the daughter of Bill and Fleur. She might very well be, say, in her 7th year at Hogwarts. So, Teddy's there to see her off.

That help you feel better?

[Bostondevil]

Draco refuses to confirm Harry/Herminoe/Ron's identies - giving a 'they might be' rather than a positive ID.

It was Narcissa Malfoy who lied to Voldemort and said Harry was dead, had she not done that Harry would have been dead for good.

Well, if Harry had said Draco was dead, would she have answered the same way? Still not a change of heart, I think. And I don't think Draco was trying to save Harry/Hermione/Ron as much as he was trying to save himself. I think he was probably very unhappy to see them because it meant Voldemort would be summoned to his home. I rather think, at that point in the story, a visit from Voldemort was something he wanted to avoid.

[Exiled_Devil]

My wife is still only about 200 pages in, so I need people to discuss with.

I wrote this a couple of weeks ago:

There is no way that JK can commit space to the discovery and destruction of the horcruxes in a worthwhile way and also deal with mourning, Hogwarts, love interests, and Snape's morality in a book that is manageable. I have this bad feeling, similar to how I felt after Clones - there is way more story that I want to hear than time to tell it.

I am, once again, an idiot when it comes to pop culture predictions.

I thought the book was great. Every lingering question I had - AD's hand, the smile at HP's blood in Voldy, Kreacher, the locket - they were all answered well. And she brought back so much from earlier books - the house elves, the centaurs, Fred and George's joke-shop toys used to infiltrate the Ministry.


A well-woven tale. Finely crafted conclusion to a long and complex story. Not a complex theme, sure, but to keep track of so many moving pieces and leave a complete sense of story is impressive.

The one thing I left wanting was knowing what Harry, Ron and Hermione did as grown-ups. After all, they didn't graduate from Hogwarts (at least, we were not given ay direct evidence of graduation.) I also wanted to know who was Headmaster. But whatever. Minor tidbits compared o everything else.

Exiled
Albus Severus - wow. That took me for a loop.

[Patrick Yates]

For JK, I think this book was a big fornicate-you to the movie makers. There is simply no way this book can be made into a single movie. Honestly, there are three separate movies. Here. The first is Harry going to the Burrow and the flight therein. Movie 1 concludes with the Death Eaters attacking the wedding, and Harry, Ron, and Hermione fleeing to grimmauld place.

Movie 2 opens with The raid on the Ministry (which was like a thousand times better than Ocean's whatever), and closes with Ron comming back and destroying the locket.

Movie 3 opens with Harry et al hitting Godric's Hollow and then at the Lovegood's learning of the deathly hallows. It closes with what could be the most effects heavy scene in moviedom to date, the Battle for Hogwarts.

I am sorry, but there were times I had to stand up and calm down the book was so good.

Snape was fantastic. You realized when Voldy made attendance at Hogwarts mandatory for all kids, Muggleborn, Pureblood, or Mixed, with Snape as headmaster, that Snape was good, as he was obviously behind this subtle move to bring all the children together where they could be given at least a measure of protection, away from Voldy's direct involvement. He was obviously protecting the kids. The punishments were severe, but another death eater would have used the killing curse at various points, while Snape did not. Snape also kept together a core of teachers that obviously opposed Voldy, but that would protect the students at all costs. Had to be good.

JKR's greatest skill is that her characters are flawed (except for Hermione, whose 1 tiny imperfection, believing only that which can be proven with empirical evidence, is not that bad. Hermione looks like, and is supposed to be, JKR as a child, only smarter. She did not give "herself" many flaws.) Ron leaves, Harry questions himself, and they have to struggle. I agree about the LOTR stuff, but I saw it as more of a homage than a rip off. Standing on the shoulders of giants type thing.

My main problem (other than Fred dying, wtf, bring back Percy, have a reconciliation, then kill him) was the epilog. What do the main characters do for a living? What happend to Luna? Prior to the book I thought she and Neville would hook up, but it seems that Dean, the ultimate background character prior to this, got Luna in the end (props Dino. We all know about the spacey, spiritualistic, arty types of girls. Kids, ask your parents when you turn 18, and date one at college). There is closure, but there isn't.

As for the Malfoys, their redemption played to the central theme of the HP series. The power of love overcomes all. At the end of the day, the Malfoy's loved, whereas the rest of the death eaters did not. Lucious and Cissy loved each other, and they loved their son, and he loved them. It was not fear that saved them, it was their love for one another. Draco even tried to save one of his friends in the room of requirement, not unlike HP would do. Since the Malfoy's felt love, they were revulsed by what they saw in Voldy. If you were to join the Death Eaters, you could not really love anything. Even the married couples were more in the marriages for Dynastic purposes, probably even marrying other purebloods for the express purpose of proving their worth to Voldy than actual love. I can see the Malfoys, probably being like this as kids. But when voldy disappeared, they had a child that they loved. They were a close family, even if they were cold to outsiders. This love saved them. I knew when the Malfoys were looking out for each other that they would be good guys in the end.

Truly, I only had one problem with the book, and that was the Death Eater reign of terror. Throughout the series we saw their ruthlessness and ferocity. One they had power, I really expected more of a crackdown. I really expected many more people to die as they looked for Harry potter. They did not really go after friends and family until late in the book, and then it was imprisonment, not torture and death, which would have flushed harry out. But, as this was a children's book, in theory, I will let JKR slide on this. The Nazi's would not have been so lenient towards their enemies.

But, in this world, this was a nice moral tale on the necessity of tolerance, and again, how love conquers all.

Patrick Yates

[Hector Vector]

All I can say is that I cannot imagine the book being any better.

[Windsor]

I would also like to know what Harry and the gang do as adults. I think leaving that out lets JKR leavie the door open. She has said she has no plans to write any more of the books, but also indicated that you should never say never. She now has a 19 year period to play with and the introduction of children who could also be subjects at some later date should she wish. I would venture to guess should she decided to "write about the Wizard world again" (JKR's words) she would use the children. Anything Harry and friends did would be anticlimactic, and you already know they live for at leat 19 more years.

Much as I am sad to see the saga end, I hope she doesn't write anymore. The standard she set in this series is so high it will darn near impossible to equal. Certianly she won't need the money...I believe she is now the richest woman in England (whose name is not Elizabeth). I think she has nothing to gain and everything to lose if she were to write more...sometimes the best thing you can do is leave well enough alone.

Back to the book:
I don't think not graduating from Hogwarts (which we can assume they didn't since they skipped their 7th year) wouldn't stand in Harry's way of becoming an Auror - I think he has sufficent 'independant study' to overcome his lack of classroom learning.

I am still impressed with all the tie-ins to the earlier books (Professor Sprout hurling mandrakes over the wall at the death eaters gave me a real chuckle). I'm sure I missed some (it was late and I was reading fast) but you can tell that when she wrote #1 she was heading for #7.

Of all the characters that didn't make it Dobby made me the saddest :(.

"A free Elf"

[Jfrosh]

As for the Malfoys, their redemption played to the central theme of the HP series. The power of love overcomes all. At the end of the day, the Malfoy's loved, whereas the rest of the death eaters did not. Lucious and Cissy loved each other, and they loved their son, and he loved them. It was not fear that saved them, it was their love for one another. Draco even tried to save one of his friends in the room of requirement, not unlike HP would do. Since the Malfoy's felt love, they were revulsed by what they saw in Voldy. If you were to join the Death Eaters, you could not really love anything. Even the married couples were more in the marriages for Dynastic purposes, probably even marrying other purebloods for the express purpose of proving their worth to Voldy than actual love. I can see the Malfoys, probably being like this as kids. But when voldy disappeared, they had a child that they loved. They were a close family, even if they were cold to outsiders. This love saved them. I knew when the Malfoys were looking out for each other that they would be good guys in the end.



Patrick Yates

Very good, I missed the whole "love" connection with the Malfoys. That really did make their decision making even more central to the theme.

[Dukerati]

Other thoughts:

1) Hedwig dieing - Why? I never got particularly attached to Hedwig and his death just seemed gratuitous to me. One of my friends suggested that JK had a vendetta against PETA.

2) Neville and the Gryffindor sword - Didn't the goblin take it? I was reading really fast and missed that whole part. How did Neville wind up with the sword to kill Nagini?

3) Lupin and Tonks dying - I didn't really like how JK glossed over their death. They were central enough to see a proper departure with a grandiose death scene.

Overall, this book was amazing. I've had some time to reflect and I get goosebumps reliving some of the moments. Snape was handled masterfully and I particularly loved how Hermione kissed Ron after the whole "save the elves" thing. Big shout out to the liberals out there:)

[Patrick Yates]

Other thoughts:

1) Hedwig dieing - Why? I never got particularly attached to Hedwig and his death just seemed gratuitous to me. One of my friends suggested that JK had a vendetta against PETA.

2) Neville and the Gryffindor sword - Didn't the goblin take it? I was reading really fast and missed that whole part. How did Neville wind up with the sword to kill Nagini?

3) Lupin and Tonks dying - I didn't really like how JK glossed over their death. They were central enough to see a proper departure with a grandiose death scene.

Overall, this book was amazing. I've had some time to reflect and I get goosebumps reliving some of the moments. Snape was handled masterfully and I particularly loved how Hermione kissed Ron after the whole "save the elves" thing. Big shout out to the liberals out there:)


1. WTF. Hedwig dying made made no sense to me either. I think that it was just one more way to separate HP (and the entire trio) from the Wizarding World while they were on the run. Hed had shown a propensity to find Harry, no matter what. Also, that bird would have been used to trace Harry, or as a hostage. Or, it woudl have enabled HP to keep in contact with the outside world, and that doesn't work for the buildup of desperation that HP had to feel as he undertook his task. I was surprised that hed did not stay with the Weasleys, as I assume Pig and Crookshanks did. He could have survived. The peta thing wouldn't surprise me at all.

2. This was interesting, but easily explained. Remember COS, when Fawkes dropped the empty sorting hat into Harry's hand? He was able to pull out the sword, apparantly from its resting place in Dumbledore's office. Remember, both the Hat and the Sword belonged to Griffendor, regardless of the Goblin's retardo sense of ownership. I imagine that the hat is like a wormhole to whereever the sword is, no matter who has it. Thus, a true griffendor can pull the sword from the hat when the sword is truly needed.

3. Agreed. This seemed tacked on. I knew a Weasley would die, and I figured at least on of the twins, but it really saddened me when it happend. I hate to say it, but Lupins and Tonks death seemed added on more for the sense of loss that Harry would feel. If these two don't die, none of HP's core group (outside Fred) die in the climactic battle. Sure, Creevey's death was kind of sad, but not that sad. Lupin and Tonks made HP realize what was at stake. Once again, voldy had taken the loving parents from an innocent child, depriving him of an otherwise happy lifestyle, where he was loved by happy parents, just like Harry. This steeled HP for the final fight to come.

That is the genius of JKR. It is not just the big things, but the little things, that show how important love is.

Patrick Yates

[Highlander]

This is actually Mrs. Highlander. My husband hasn't read the book yet (I admit that I was a book-hog, so it's not really his fault) and there is one thing I can't figure out. I hope this isn't something simple that makes me feel idiotic when someone explains it.

How did Draco Malfoy come to be the master of the Elder Wand?

[bluebear]

This is actually Mrs. Highlander. My husband hasn't read the book yet (I admit that I was a book-hog, so it's not really his fault) and there is one thing I can't figure out. I hope this isn't something simple that makes me feel idiotic when someone explains it.

How did Draco Malfoy come to be the master of the Elder Wand?

Malfoy was able to disarm Dumbledore at the end of HBP (while Dumbledore was still weak from the potion and Harry was frozen under the invisibility cloak) becoming the Elder Wand's new master despite never taking the wand as his own...

[Bostondevil]

Something kind of minor we find out, Molly Prewitt Weasley, sister of Gideon ("took 5 Death Eaters to bring him down") and Fabian, original members of the Order of the Phoenix.

Does anyone but Harry witness Draco's Expelliarmus spell on Dumbledore at the end of HBP?

[Exiled_Devil]

Something kind of minor we find out, Molly Prewitt Weasley, sister of Gideon ("took 5 Death Eaters to bring him down) and Fabian, original members of the Order of the Phoenix.

Does anyone but Harry witness Draco's Expelliarmus spell on Dumbledore at the end of HBP?

Nope. Malfoy disarms AD while AD is weak and instead of defending himself, he freezes HP under his cloak.

And Harry being master of the wand was part of the discussion in the ghost-train station, I thought.

Exiled

[aimo]

early this morning. I had originally thought that I would zip through the book on the first pass so as to avoid anyone spoiling it for me. But, as Istarted, I realized that there was no way I would do that. It was too good and there were way too many details that I didn't want to miss. No regrets there.

I absolutely loved the book. I agree with whoever said s/he had to put the book down every once and a while to calm down. I would read a paragraph, find myself gleaning clues from it, then reading onto the next. That's why it took me so long to read it.

What I called: I was the one in the pre-release post that predicted the possiblity of Harry being a Horcrux due to Voldy's scar-inducing attack. Too many connections for it not to be, really. I knew the mirror would come into play. AND, way back in Half-Blood Prince, I figured, for whatever reason, that the tiara that Harry used as a landmark for his potions book would later come into play.

What I didn't call: Aberforth as the bartender, and the eye in the mirror. Explains why DD liked to go there and how he found out about Harry and the DA's first meeting. I also didn't predict that Kreacher would turn around so completely. DD was right, be nice to the elf. I knew that Griphook would have a reaction to how Harry didn't distinguish between elves, Goblins and wizards. I also didn't expect Dobby to die. Very sad. I understood Hedwig's and the Firebolt's demise. Just extra things for harry to have to hang onto. Although they might have fit in Hermione's little beaded bag (I need one of those!) Hermione's such a Girl Scout!

While reading Deathly Hallows, I figured out that the doe was Snape's Patronus before I read the Malfoy Manor chapter. The doe, partner of a stag. And we all figured that Snape had had the hots for Lily way back. Up until then, I still wasn't convinced that Snape wasn't the ratbastard he acted like, but then I figured DD was instructing him from his portrait about the sword. I also predicted that DD had the Elder Wand pretty early on. And as soon as Lupin made Harry the baby's godfather, I knew both he and Tonks would be killed.

I loved how she brought in Dean, b/c I was worried about him, being Muggle-born and all. I loved the Malfoy Manor chapter. They find Luna and Ollivander and Dobby saves them in a rather simple way, really. Loved it!

The Malfoys came out OK in the end because of love, but it was all selfish love directed only towards their own family. Harry explains that in his mind why Narcissa wanted to know if Draco was still alive, so she could get back into the castle to him. I would imagine that Harry would have told her this regardless, b/c after all, did he truly know that Draco was still alive? And Draco wasn't gungho about IDing them in Malfoy Manor b/c he was tired of it all and didn't want Voldy showing up again. I kind of wished she had at least killed off Lucius.

Neville doesn't need to be paired with Luna. He's the man now. A true Gryffindor, b/c only a true Gryffindor could pull the sword out of the hat. I also predicted that Neville would become the Herbology professor at Hogwarts.

To whoever was questioning why Voldy wasn't killing the Death Eaters: it was said several times that they wanted to spill as little pureblood as possible. His plan was to turn everyone into Slytherins so they could reproduce.

Lastly, I think Fred should become a ghost at Hogwarts and give Peeves some competition.

Oh, and it was said last week, before this release, that JK Rowling is worth MORE than the Queen

[Patrick Yates]

On paper, JKR is worth slighly more than the Queen, or, at least, she very soon will be worth more.

From a practical sense, JKR's wealth far outstrips that of the Queen. Most of the Queen's wealth is based on her extensive property holdings. Included in this is a huge mansion in London, the most expensive real estate on Earth. Also included are an extensive collection of family jewelry, as well as numerous bank accounts, investments, etc.

However, this money does not truly "belong" to the queen. She cannot sell either the property or the jewels. They belong to the throne itself, not merely the person who sits on the throne. As for the accounts, much of that is in the form of unbreakable trusts, meaning that HRH cannot touch the principle, merely the annual interest. Also, much of her lifestyle, ie Security and Travel, are provided by the taxpayers of Brittain (and a bunch of yokel tourists).

The gist of this is, that while the queen has a high net worth, much of that is in the form of Assets that the queen cannot dispose of, because it has to be handed down to the next generation of royals.

JKR always demurs when asked about being richer than the queen, but in reality she is far, far wealthier than the queen.

Patrick Yates

[BluDevilGal]

I think someone might have posted this elsewhere already, but for those of you who want to know what the trio all do for a living there is a multi-part interview that NBC is doing with JKR, and in a from it clip that I saw on msn.com she reveals their careers.

[DevilAlumna]

Finally managed to finish it today at lunch. And more importantly, managed to refrain from reading any of these spoiler threads until now. Thanks to all of you who were kind enough to not spoil it all for us slower readers. (Or, in my case, having to entertain the in-laws instead.)

I think, for sentimental reasons, this book will be my favorite of the series. JKR did an excellent job tying so many threads together; bringing up facts from earlier (not just HBP) stories, and in general, just creating an ultimately satisfying finale.

In no particular order, things I liked:

* The obvious maturation of H/Hr/R. They've learned the niceties of growing up, such as apologizing, patience, empathy, and recognition that not everything or everyone is perfect. I think JKR did a great job of capturing the human side of these kids as they grew up. (Even if I really hated Harry's sullenness in book 5.)

* Dumbledore had flaws. And Harry had to recognize and accept that, and it became okay. (Part of the above point as well.)

* Neville's role in killing the Nagini Horcrux -- iirc, the prophecy could have referred to either him or Harry, so it seems fitting he should have a helping hand in V's demise.

* That speaking He-who-must-not-be-named's name became a charm that summoned Death Eaters. I thought that was a fun bit of smart writing.

* Finally confirming that Snape was good; and that it was because he still loved his lifelong friend.

* Harry has a godson, to spoil as he knew Sirius would have to him.

* The exploration of life and death vs. the afterlife. I think JKR takes comfort in the thought that those who are no longer with us in this life are still around and available for us to call on when we really need them. Even if they are just 'there' for moral support.

Bring on book 7.5! (and maybe, just maybe, some of those chinese knockoffs. if they're any good in translation.)

[Patrick Yates]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20001720/

Above is a link to the transcript of NBC's interview with JKR. She discusses a lot, but she also says what H, R and Her are up to.

Read to discover some final truths.

Patrick Yates

[toughbuff1]

Here is another link where JKR answers a lot of questions:

http://the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/7/30/j-k-rowling-web-chat-transcript

[SouthgateWindsor]

Thanks for posting those links, Patrick Yates and toughbuff1. The docs in those links answered a lot of questions.

**spoilerish**

I'm rereading it and I am still just completely blown away by The Forest Again. So haunting, the image of Harry holding the snitch to his lips and speaking those words. And Jo's grace in having Harry ask the question that I'm sure all of us ask, and in giving such a comforting answer.

[Udaman]

Finally finished. Was so worried about being spoiler filled, but nothing was given away, thankfully.

Such a great book and great finish. Not perfect, but pretty darn close.

Things I didn't like (not many):

The whole "Dumbledore was greedy." Yeah, it makes him more human, but it got a bit distracting, and didn't really need to be there. It wasn't terrible, but just seemed unnecessary.

Snape's death. It was so sudden, that I was sort of sad. I always envisioned that Harry would confront him and try to kill him. It really fit into JKR's story, but it just stunned me.

The tenting. It got a bit tedious from time to time.

Things I really, really liked:

The whole Group of Harry's at the beginning.

Breaking into the Ministry

The concept of the Deathly Hallows, and the moment when Harry decides to go after the Horcruxes instead of the wand. It was that one moment where he turned into an adult, and a true leader. Really cool.

The fact that Harry was the one using the mind link to his advantage. Again, really cool.

The scene in the Malfoy house. Awesome.

The conversation with his parents, Sirius and Lupin in the forest. Powerful, powerful stuff.

The entire last 1/3 of the book. Especially (and this was the coolest part of any of the books to me) Harry calling Voldemort Tom and Riddle at the end. He had absolute no fear at all for him - and it was just awesome.

Mrs. Weasley taking out Bellatrix.

Dumbledore's painting at the end, and calling the kid Albus Severus.

The "nod" from Malfoy to Harry at the end. Hey - they still don't like each other, but that's OK.

This is going to be a great, great movie. Could easily run 3 hours long. Hope it does.

Starting to reread it now.

[billybreen]

Wow, just finished. We were traveling the first week it was released, and the wife and I have a tradition of reading these books aloud to each other (yes, I know, we're super cute), so it takes a bit longer. We basically spent all day reading the last 250 pages, but wow was it worth it.

What an amazing finale. I'm just in awe of JKR -- all the pressure to satisfy the huge crowd of people demanding a fitting conclusion, and she pulled it off magnificently. There were so many perfect moments throughout, it really felt like a love letter to the fans, while always managing to be true and not trite.

The Snape denouement was perfect, and not at all cheapened by being predicted by many of us, so skillful was the execution. The final coda with 'Albus Severus' and Severus being 'probably the bravest person I ever met' was a last masterful touch.

The only thing I hate is that it's now over. What a magical ride -- I really can't think of any pop culture phenomenon that so consistently met expectations.

[dukemomLA]

Yeah, truly thought it was the best book since book I and II which introduced us to the wonderful world of the Muggles/Wizards/Hogwarts.

My only "complaint" was the section about the potential death of Harry. Of course, we knew that was not a possibility. But then again, we also know that any hero/protagonist in any book/action film will not meet his/her demise and yet it doesn't spoil the enivitable (sic-- it's late here) outcome.

I also LOVE the fact that Roxling doesn't spent pages or chapters explaining the plot or characters for 'new readers.' Sooooo many writers to that, much to my chagrin.

Truly a concluding tome that excelled my expections. Rowling, I applaud you.

[Jumbo]

I'm done. About a month before the book was released, I decided that I needed to re-read all six. Well, life's been pretty busy, so I didn't get around to starting #7 until last week, but thankfully managed to avoid all spoilers.

When it came time to start the book, I actually didn't want to, because I knew that I only had 700-plus pages left in a series that had drawn me in to a degree I never managed. And now that I'm done, I must confess I've been a bit down today. Reading that this "encyclopedia" might come out has helped ease the loss, but the fact is, after every other book, we always had another to look forward to. Not anymore. And I think that regardless, of what could have happened in the 7th book, I'd feel the same way.

That said, here are my thoughts on Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows:

-I tend to be a lot less critical of most pop culture things than the majority of posters here. But I was shocked at how much everyone else loved the book compared to how I felt. Certainly, the last 200 pages redeemed much of what came before it. But that was the meat of the book. And I wasn't down with that program. Why?

The magic (no pun intended) of the first six books was that they were reflections of ordinary life in an extraordinary world. Harry and his friends were kids who just happened to be wizards. Yeah, they dealt with deadly adventures, but also experienced the same growing pains as any other kid their age. And the writing changed a little bit with each book to reflect that (which was part of the brilliance of Rowling).

But in the seventh book, we didn't take a natural leap forward. The kids aged much too quickly. Sure, you can just blame that on extraordinary events. But it was a little too convenient how advanced Hermione's magic had come (and how inconsistent it was at times -- a couple of reviews have mentioned her ability/inability to perform memory charms), how profoundly Neville had transformed, how mature Harry's actions were. I bought everything these characters did until this point. I had trouble buying a lot of what went on in Book 7.

-Coupled with that, the book was just so, so dark, and tried to do too much. And in that way, it lost some of its originality. I didn't need another allegory for Nazi Germany. I didn't need some of the stuff that was almost a blatant rip-off of Lord of the Rings. I didn't need The Fugitive/Minority Report thrown in there either. The series stopped being a reflection of real life through an imaginary world and became a full-fledged fantasy/adventure book. And I generally don't read those books or watch those movies. There was a special charm to the Harry Potter, and it was lost in their not returning to Hogwarts. I know Rowling made it nearly impossible for the Big Three to come back for their seventh year. But the book really was as much about that place as those people, and there was something wrong with traveling with them so far, only to see them not finish what they started at the school. The stuff that made the earlier books great were the pauses and deep breaths Hogwarts afforded. There was always something new to discover, always something to sidetrack us for a little while from the life-and-death saga of that particular book. The kids still had to study. There were exams, Quidditch games, detentions, relationship troubles. There were portraits that spoke and ghosts who floated around. All of that charm got stripped away, and while the curtain call was great in the end (more on that later), it was too little, too late. I want Harry, Ron and Hermione to have a real seventh year at Hogwarts. It's interesting that Rowling has answered so many questions about their future (more on that too), yet has mentioned anything about whether they'd come back to Hogwarts. It's not right that they wouldn't graduate.

-And missing Hogwarts stripped the last layer of protection from readers, especially kids. The book just started off so darkly. Hedwig seemed luck such an unnecessary, innocent victim. I realized that Rowling had to convey just how bad things had become, and show what life had been like the last time Voldemort had risen, but I think she went too far in spurts. And even her writing took a leap too far off the bridge that connected both kids and adults. I have no problem using fouling language, but I was shocked to see "effing" used more than once, or for Mrs. Weasley to call Belatrix a "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.." It was just unnecessary. Like I said, things just dind't progress at the natural rate of the rest of the series, and while I know the stakes were incredibly high, it didn't feel right.

-I hated all the hiding in the forrests, the constant threat of danger, the pages upon pages featuring no glint of optimism, the disappearance of key characters from the past, and a quest that was aimless for a long time. I understand that Rowling felt she needed to use this to build to the climax, but that didn't mean I enjoyed it along the way. And the constant killing, mistakes from H/H/R, and narrow-escapes-that-shouldn't-have-been became tiring. I was really angry through most of the book, and like someone said, she seemed to be writing more of a movie script.

-I'm not nearly as angry now. The last 200 pages or so was a great curtain call. Every major character came back into play. I loved Peeves dropping the tubers on the Death Eaters, loved Trelawney hurling crystal balls, loved Grawp doing his thing, etc. There were still too many convenient excuses -- Ron suddenly could immitate Harry's Parseltongue? Excuse me? The Gray Lady is the Ravenclaw ghost? Why hadn't we met her before? Still, overall, the scenes were excellent, and a lot of my suspicions were validated. Snape was working with Dumbledore all along; Dumbledore had planned to die that final night. Voldemort using Harry's blood was critical (I'd been saying that since the 4th book, and actually went back and read the passage right after Voldemort supposedly killed Harry, to confirm exactly how Dumbledore had reacted -- the brief look of triumph), and my wife knew as soon as Teddy was born that Harry would live -- she wouldn't leave him without his godfather after what happened to Harry with Sirius. I liked a lot of the other things that came full circle, like the S.P.E.W. stuff, the gold coins, the Room of Requirement, etc. And the scene leading to Harry's death march, and everything that followed, was just so powerful.

Still, I had some other minor quibbles.
-Snape's obsession with Lily was uncomfortable. We know that he was a flawed, complicated man, but more than anything, it cast James in a terrible light. We really saw very little evidence throughout the series of his even being a good man. All we had was Lupin's little speech trying to reassure Harry after he ventured into the Pensieve. But while Lily is cast in this light of near-perfection, we hardly know James, and thus have a hard time accepting his relationship with Lily, especially contrasted with Snape's obsession.

-That brings up another point -- Rowling doesn't write women as well as she does men. She does an excellent job with nuance in her male characters. All are flawed. Snape could love, but was a bully, had demons, clung to power, etc. Dumbledore was nearly omniscient, except when it came to his own life, where a bit of greed stuck with him until his dying day. Harry was often arrogant and angry. Ron was immature. And so forth. But Lily wasn't written with the same nuance. The female stars had far fewer flaws. Hermione was a bit insecure and stubborn, but these were minor blemishes compared to the men. McGonagall was rarely wrong. Ginny didn't really have warts. It's tough to imagine that her personal life didn't play a role in this.

-I thought many of the deaths were gratuitious. The only reason to kill Hedwig was to hurt Harry. Dobby's death was, at least, noble. I guess Fred, Tonks and Lupin's deaths were all necessary to push Harry to take the final step in sacrificing himself. But, again, I just don't think she needed to make things so bloody.

-The explanation of Harry's survival was still clumsy. The Horcrux/Hallow combo was not well-explained. I'll have to re-read it, but the way I understand it, Voldemort couldn't kill Harry because a) he contained some of Harry and his mother's protection within him and b) he wasn't the master of the Elder Wand, thereby weakening its power. At the same time, he didn't seem to be able to hurt Harry with any other wand, either, so was the Elder Wand thing even really important?

-The epilogue was nice, but trite. Naming the kid Albus Severus was still creepy -- again, I didn't like Snape's obsession playing such a big role when Lily did, after all, marry James. And I wanted more of a sense of what happened to the characters.

-Then, inexplicably (I've never seen an author do this before), JK is going on and on about what various characters did after the book. Um, ok? It's cool, and all, but it leaves no room to the imagination in a series that was all about imagination. Harry becomes and auror. That's not surprising, although I had always hoped he'd play Seeker for the Chudley Cannons (their recruiting is awful -- I blame Ted Roof). Seeker by day, auror by night -- has the makings of a nice short story, actually. I dunno, hearing her dish on this whole made-up world in her head has been somewhat of a comfort, but also takes away from the magic of it all. And I guess I'd still like to hold out hope that she'll write about these characters once again.

-Wow, I can't believe how long I've rambled, and I still have more to say. I guess I just need to pour a lot of this out, as the book seems to have affected me profoundly. Look, in the end, I liked it of course. I just wish we'd received one last year of Hogwarts. I'd love to hear more about what the rest of you think about this stuff, and that would probably pull some of the stuff I've forgotten to say out of my head.

[Jumbo]

Oh yeah, one more thing. There are wizards all over the world, so why is this whole thing limited to England? Isn't the rest of the wizarding world worried about Voldemort?

[aimo]

OK, I just finished reading it the second time, and I've come up with a list of comments and questions. Some have been answered in JKR interviews. Others are just things to think about . . .

1 - What were the Dursleys reactions to being disapparated out of Little Whinging? And why, after their escape from the Ministry of Magic, were the three concerned about whether or not folks without wands could side-along apparate if they knew the Dursleys had already been transported that way? And then they took Griphook along out of Malfoy Manor and then later back to Gringott's, and he didn't have a wand.

2 - If wands are required to do magic, then how do the wizard and witch children create such havoc without one? If it's just pent-up magic leaking out, you'd think someone would have figured out a way to harness it into a way do use it sans wand in adulthood.

3 - Which brings me to . . . animagi. I need to double-check PoA, but didn't Wormtail need a wand to transform? And if a wand was necessary to transform, how did Sirius manage it all those years in Azkaban? And it must not be necessary to have a wand to transfrom BACK, b/c most animals can't handle wands. No opposing thumbs.

4 - How can Voldemort (and then later, Snape) fly? Everyone seemed pretty stunned by this ability. And why didn't Voldy just fly across the lake to check on the locket instead of taking the boat. Seems a waste of time to me.

5 - What is a warlock? What is a ghoul? Maybe these will be defined in her encyclopedia.

6 - In the forest again, it seems that Harry's parents et al can see Harry even though he's wearing the cloak.

7 - In the forest again, Rowle is back. He was the one Hermione obliviated in the cafe in London, correct? I got the impression that Voldy killed those two, and even if he didn't, obliviation isn't something from which you can recover (see Lockhart). I find it hard to believe that the Death Eaters would drag around someone who hasn't a clue.

8 - When Narcissa checked to see of Harry was dead, why lie? She knew Draco was alive, and telling Voldy that Harry was still alive would only lead to SOMEBODY killing him before leaving the forest. My theory is that she was tired of the killing and was hoping that Harry's being alive would lead to the end of Voldemort.

9 - Did you notice that all throughout the books, Voldy is portrayed as this otherwordly being, so powerful and feared. But starting especially in the forest, he's more and more just a mortal human being, like everyone else. His spells from the wand aren't taking. He's swept into the Great Hall with the crowd like a load of laundry. And his death, was almost anti-climactic, with JKR and Harry referring to him again as Tom Riddle.

10 - The biggest WTF? moment to me was Phineas Nigellus' statement at the end, "And let it be noted that Slytherin House played its part! Let our contribution not be forgotten!" I can only suppose he meant Snape, b/c everything else was pretty much the fault of Slytherin House alums.

11 - So, can we conclude that Dumbledore was willing to sacrifice Harry from the beginning "for the greater good" until the end of Goblet of Fire, when Harry told him about his blood bringing Voldy back, and DD got that "look of triumph"? Not until then was there a possibility that Harry could actually survive?

12 - Should Ollivander be credited for saving the wizarding world? After all, it was his idea to give Harry the twin wand of Voldy. He could have chosen another wand that would have been acceptable, and Harry would have never survived the showdown in the cemetery in GoF. Even if he did keep referring to Voldy as the Dark Lord, could Ollivander be the man in the end?

Discuss.

[Olympic Fan]

9 - Did you notice that all throughout the books, Voldy is portrayed as this otherwordly being, so powerful and feared. But starting especially in the forest, he's more and more just a mortal human being, like everyone else. His spells from the wand aren't taking. He's swept into the Great Hall with the crowd like a load of laundry. And his death, was almost anti-climactic, with JKR and Harry referring to him again as Tom Riddle.

10 - The biggest WTF? moment to me was Phineas Nigellus' statement at the end, "And let it be noted that Slytherin House played its part! Let our contribution not be forgotten!" I can only suppose he meant Snape, b/c everything else was pretty much the fault of Slytherin House alums.

as to No. 10 -- I've pointed out before that Professor Slughorn, who replaced Snape as the head of Slytherin, is one of the three wizards dueling Voldy in the final scene before Potter steps up. So that's two for Slytherin ...

As for Voldy's problems after the Forest scene, I thought that was pretty much explained by Harry in the final duel. Voldy's targets were protected by the same magic that protected Harry when he was a baby -- namely, the willing sacrifice of a loved one. By sacrificing himself (and even if he didn't die, he meant to), he cast protection over those he sacrificed for. That's why Voldy's spells suddenly were ineffective -- why Longbottom broke free and why in the duel in the castle, Voldy couldn't kill anybody.

[aimo]

I understood why V's powers were failing. I was just struck in my rereading by how evident his "mortalization" became towards the end. He was no longer this immortal being that everyone cowered from. His Horcruxes were destroyed, his spells were so-so. The fighters didn't seem to be afraid of him anymore, even though they didn't know he was less powerful. Even Ron, who used to whimper at the mention of V's name, was standing up to him and yelling at him about how Harry beat him.

And, yeah, I guess we have to give Slughorn props, too.

[cato]

I thought it was made pretty clear that wands are not necessary for magic, they just serve to help focus the mind/magic. As to why everybody uses them, well, they seems to be quite effective. If it ain't broke . . .

As to Ollivander being credited with saving the world, JKR went to pretty extensive lengths to point out that it is the wand that chooses the witch/wizard.

Finally, as to Snape, dude contributed more to the downfall of Voldy than anyone except Dumbledore. Without the Half Blood Prince, Harry wouldn't have stood a chance. I'd say Nigellus had reason to remind everyone of that.

[Exiled_Devil]

I figured Nigellus was just being a snivelling, credit-grabbing, over-self-important social climber. You know, a slytherin

AS for flying, I read that as Snape being animagi into bat form, and Voldy not flying into the cave for the same reason people didn't apparate onto the island. Whatever that is.

Exiled

[aimo]

I thought it was made pretty clear that wands are not necessary for magic, they just serve to help focus the mind/magic. As to why everybody uses them, well, they seems to be quite effective. If it ain't broke . . .

As to Ollivander being credited with saving the world, JKR went to pretty extensive lengths to point out that it is the wand that chooses the witch/wizard.

Then why can't Harry accio things when he doesn't have his wand? Why the concern about disapparating without a wand? Why are they all defenseless without wands? I thought the wand was all-important.

The wand chooses the wizard, but any other wand Ollivander tried could have chosen Harry, too. Just like Draco's chose or accepted Harry as it's new master, but the one he stole from the guy in the gang didn't. Ollivander stopped to consider the wand and decided to give it a shot, to see what would happen b/c of the twin cores. He took a chance that he didn't have to. He could have tried any other wand in that shop that would have worked for Harry.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

By the way, how does one use the multiquote button?

[aimo]

AS for flying, I read that as Snape being animagi into bat form, and Voldy not flying into the cave for the same reason people don"t apparate onto the island. Whatever that is.

Exiled

I don't think Snape was a bat. Someone, was it McGonagal?, said as Snape flew out the window, that he must have learned something else from his master, flying. And yeah, I figured the same thing about flying into the cave, but since no other wizard seemed to fly, except for Snape (and did Voldy know Snape could fly?), why would he disallow flying into the cave? If that IS the reason, I bet Voldy was cussing himself out for doing that as he's slowly inching along in the water.

[Olympic Fan]

The wand chooses the wizard, but any other wand Ollivander tried could have chosen Harry, too. Just like Draco's chose or accepted Harry as it's new master, but the one he stole from the guy in the gang didn't. Ollivander stopped to consider the wand and decided to give it a shot, to see what would happen b/c of the twin cores. He took a chance that he didn't have to. He could have tried any other wand in that shop that would have worked for Harry.

Actually, the double of Voldy's wand was the THIRD wand that Ollivander offered Harry. If you go back to the first book, the first two wands don't work. He was just guessing at that point. Obviously, he put some thought into offering Harry the double of Voldy's wand, but considering Harry carried Voldemort's mark, it may have been a reasonable gamble ...

I do have a question about wands, however -- specificially the "succession" of the Elder Wand.

Okay, going back to re-read the end of the Half-Blood Prince, Draco definitely does disarm Dumbledore while Dumby is sick with the potion he drank in the cave, PLUS distracted by freezing Harry. Still, Draco expells the Elder wand from Dumbledore, thus he becomes the conquerer of the Elder wand.

I get that.

But go back and re-read the section in DH where Harry takes Draco's wand from him. It's not a case of Harry really defeating Draco or Draco's wand.

The sequence starts with Ron taking Wormtail's wand in the cellar. Ron uses that to disarm Bellatrix as she's torturing Hermione. Bellatrix's wand flies through the air and is caught by Harry.

Harry uses that wand to stupify Lucius Malfoy. He's dodging spells from Draco, Narcissa and Greyback when Bellatrix puts a knife to Hermione's throat and forces both Harry and Ron to drop the wands they are holding.

Draco then picks up the wands and hurries to Bellatrix's side to hand them to her.

At that moment, Dobby drops the chandelier on top of Bellatrix and Draco (also Herminone and Griphook). While Draco is clutching his bleeding face, Harry runs over and "wrestled the three wands (Wormtail's, Bellatrix's and Draco's wand, which is the one that conquered the Elder Wand) from Draco's grip"

Harry then uses all three wands to stupify Greyback. Dobby uses his magic to disarm Narcissa. Harry throws one of the wands to Ron then they get the heck out of Dodge.

Okay, here's my question ... is physically wrestling Draco's wand out of his hand the same as "defeating" or "conquering" the wizard who defeated the Elder Wand? In his final duel with Voldy, Harry tells him "I got to Draco weeks ago. I took this wand from him weeks ago ... Does the wand in your hand know its last Master was Disarmed."

Do if you can physically wrest the wand from its true owner ... that's all it takes?

[cato]

Then why can't Harry accio things when he doesn't have his wand? Why the concern about disapparating without a wand? Why are they all defenseless without wands? I thought the wand was all-important.


Presumably because Harry is a Wizard of average ability. Besides, I'm not saying that wands are completely unimportant. My impression is that a wand is not necessary, but like any tool, it helps. It focuses and channels magic. Kind of like saying a spell out loud, even though that is not necessary.

[jma4life]

Here's the thing that's been bothering me.

It's been said that the people in the portraits in Hogwarts have to basically act in the will of the headmaster explaining why the headmaster related to Sirius was supportive of Snape and thus what Dumbledore wanted.

So theoretically, if someone evil like one of Voltemort's followers were to take over Hogwarts, would the portrait of Dumbledore then actually support Voltemort. And would this support carry over to all other aspects of Dumbledore in the other world.

For example, Dumbledore spoke to Harry after Harry kind of died. So if someone evil was appointed headmaster and the Dumbledore portrait supported this headmaster, then would Dumbledore have given advice to Harry that was against Harry's interests? I know this is a random question but its just something that I was wondering about.

[JBDuke]

...

By the way, how does one use the multiquote button?

Multiquote, as you might guess, is used when you want to quote more than one other post in your reply. Select the multiquote button on all of the quotes that you want to include in your post (it should turn red when you do), except for the last one. For the last one, use the standard "quote" button, and that will open up a reply window with all of the quotes you selected included in it.

Hope that helps!

[JasonEvans]

Many weeks after the rest of you, I finally finished it last night. The process of reading it out-loud to my 8 and 10-year-old sons would haev been lengthy anyway, but when you consider they also spent some time at camp... well, I am amazed we got it done before Labor Day.

The final 200 pages rushed by, but like Jumbo I was quite disappointed in much of the first 2/3rds of the book. The endless, aimless wandering through the woods was very tiresome. There were a few other things that really bothered me...

1) The Wizarding world really embraced Voldemort and his Nazi-like ideas quickly, didn't they? I found this ludicrous. And how on Earth could Snape kill Dumbledore and then promptly be promoted to Headmaster of Hogwarts? Is there no penalty for murder in the Wizard world? As a journalist myself, the notion that the Daily Prophet instantly became Voldy's propaganda tool bothered me. There needed to be more resistance. The conversion from a world where people msotly lived happily together to a world where it was pure-bloods vs. mud-bloods needed to happen slower and be more subtle. In this book, 99% of the Wizard world are sheep who seem to have no opinions or interest in what kind of world they are living in (even as their family members and friends are sent to prison camps or forced to flee to foreign countries). It was just lazy writing. Evil does not make huge, grand changes overnight. It does things slowly and with subtlety so good people do not notice their world changing.

2) Dumbledore's last gifts to Harry, Ron, and Hermie were pretty darn useless. I am still not sure what point the book had for Hermione. Sure it ended up allowing the kids to figure out a bunch of stuff about the Hallows, and I loved a lot of that legend and how it played out in the book, but was this really Dumbledore's intent? His plan was to have Harry find out about the Hallows and then not go after them? Huh?!?! What sense does that make? I get that Ron's gifts were useful and I understand that the Stone helped Harry to give himself up to Voldy, but Dumbledore had a ton of time to plan these gifts. In the grand scheme of things, they were not very useful. And he needed a much better way of getting the Sword of Griffinfor into their hands.

3) I did not like the way Lucious Malfoy's character played out. It ran counter to how he has been in every other book. He is one of Voldy's cloest and most powerful allies. It was never clear to me why Voldy turned on him and his family. Lucious spends the entire book cowering in a corner. That is not his character! Heck, the Malfoy's should have been praised and rewarded endlessly for Draco's role in killing Dumbledore. They should have been second only to Snape in Voldy's eyes. I wanted Draco to be more redeemed too. He does not have to fight alongside Harry and they do not have to be friends (the nod at the end was perfect in my mind), but have him do SOMETHING to indicate that he does not like where Voldy is taking the world.

4) I think I hated the Epilogue. We did not need that. Everyone gets married to everyone else and has babies at about the same time and the babies are in the process of falling in love with each other too?!?! Puh-lease!!! And why does everyone get a child named after them except for Fred? Ginny and Harry pick Serverus and Albus for names but not Fred?!?!?! Are you kidding me?!?! I liked Harry's respect and admiration for Snape's bravery but there is no way Ginny agrees to name her child Serverus (even as a middle name) instead of naming him Fred. There is something creepy about naming your two children the same names as your parents too. As an aside, what does an Auror do at work each day with no Voldy/Death Eaters around to battle? Harry would be better served teaching Dark Arts Defense at Hogwarts or being Headmaster of the school.

5) I wanted, no I NEEDED Snape to be a bigger character in this book. I needed to see how he quietly worked against Voldy while still being a spy. If I have this correct, his role was to chat with a painting and do what the painting thought was right. Ummm, yeah... that works. Aside from delivering the sword in the woods did we hear about anything else that Snape did to help the good guys? Clearly he was taking part in the battle for Hogwarts at the end. Was he casting Advada Kedvara at people and intentionally missing? Wasn't he instrumental in leading the Death Eater troops in the attack that ended with Fred, Colin, Lupin, Tonks and 50 other people dead? I just cannot believe that McGonagall would willingly serve as a teacher with Dumbledore's killer as the Headmaster. We needed to see more of what was going on at Hogwarts to have it all make sense.

Well, that's enough criticism. All that said, all the nagging questions aside, I very much enjoyed the book, especially the battles/story at the end. I am still not clear on why Harry survived Voldy's attack in the woods (did the Elder wand refuse to kill its real master or was it Voldy having a piece of Harry in him or was it somethign else?) but he had to for the book to work and I can live with that. I thought the Hallows were an amazing plot device and I enjoyed finding out that Dumbledore was obsessed with them when he was younger. Harry's decision not to go after the Elder Wand and especially his decision not to go back for the Resurrection Stone at the end were great character moments for our hero. Using the Elder wand to repair his phoenix wand was fabulous. He probably should have broken the Elder wand in two at that point but the notion that its power will die with him is nice.

There was much to love here and the series came to a very satisfying conclusion. I do not know if I speak for Jumbo when I say this, but I have a need sometimes to pick out and notice the inconsistency and the poor storytelling even in the midst of what is otherwise a great story. It is not that I did not like the book-- far from it-- but I noticed some stuff that could have been done better and I wish the author had refined her tale a bit more. I think she rushed this book to completion and even though I was dying to read it, I think it would have been a LOT better if she had taken more time to plot it out more-- especially the middle. I think that if she had taken more time she would have dropped the epilogue completly.

So, despite the questions and criticisms I have written in this post, I found it to be a very enjoyable and (mostly) satisfying read. Thanks for the many comments in this thread. I have to go read the other Spoiler thread now. Is there any reason we should not merge the two?

-Jason "the epilogue should have mentioned that Rita Skeeter was tortured and killed by Delores Umbridge after Skeeter wrote an unathorized book on the disgraced Minister. Umbridge is spending the rest of her days at Azkaban" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Another minor little quibble which disappointed--

I know some folks have complained about how the Horcrux locket acted too much like Tolkein's famous Ring, but putting that aside, did it bother anyone else that the other Horcruxes did not display the same malevolent manifestation as the diary, the ring, and locket did? Shouldn't Harry have felt something when he touched the diadem and the cup? Wouldn't it have been interesting to see what happened if someone actually drank from the cup or if they put the diadem on hoping to become wiser and actually got infected with a bit of Voldy's soul?

I just felt like this was a missed opportunity-- one that could have taken up some of the pages we could have done without in the dreary middle of the book. The Diary and the Locket both did cool stuff right before being put to death. Heck, the ring killed Dumbledore! It would have been nice if JK had come up with a few pages on what the other Horcruxes were like.

Ah well. She was too busy writing about different clearings in different parts of England. Wooo hooo!

-Jason "I hope Warner makes this book into 2 movies-- I'd split them right where the trio decides they need to rob the bank that cannot be robbed" Evans

[JasonEvans]

10 - The biggest WTF? moment to me was Phineas Nigellus' statement at the end, "And let it be noted that Slytherin House played its part! Let our contribution not be forgotten!" I can only suppose he meant Snape, b/c everything else was pretty much the fault of Slytherin House alums.



Don't forget that when the time came for everyone at Hogwarts to step up and battle for the fate of the school, everyone in Slytherin fled. Niiiice.

-Jason "I don't really like that almost every meaningful character is a Slytherin or a Griff-- aside from Luna and Cho. The world needs Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs too!!" Evans

[Highlander]

Don't forget that when the time came for everyone at Hogwarts to step up and battle for the fate fo the school, everyone in Slytherin fled. Niiiice.

-Jason "I don't really like that almost every meaningful character is a Slytherin or a Griff-- aside from Luna and Cho. The world need Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs too!!" Evans

2 minor corrections - I believe the Slytherins did come back for the final battle, and fight against the Death Eaters. This was during all the chaos when Voldermort brought Harry's body back, thinking he was dead. That was the reason for Slughorn's comment, which ignored the fact that they ran away earlier in the book.

Also, as for Snape, he was quietly working behind Voldermort's back. He managed to keep Hogwarts open, thus taking all of the children of the wizarding world into protective custody, and ensuring they stayed alive and relatively safe. Absolutely things weren't ideal at Hogwarts, as there were death eaters there too, but with all the magical protections that Hogwarts offered, the children were safer there than they would have been at their homes. Plus he had members of the Order there to keep things relatively safe. This move also kept Voldermort from using the children as leverage against their parents. At one point, I remember Snape punished Ginny and some others by having them work in the forbidden forest. It's obvious he was trying to keep the illusion of punishing them, when in reality he was throwing brer rabbit into the briar patch.

[aimo]

I won't take up a ton of space quoting you, so I'll just go by your numbers . .

1 - About evil not making huge changes overnight, remember these are wizards. They can do things instantly. And the faster they acted, the faster they could take over. And the reason the wizarding world seemed like sheep is b/c they have feared V for decades. He's mythic to them (kind of like Patrick Davidson). They're terrified for their families b/c they know the Death Eaters will kill randomly. They reacted similarly to the Germans who did not support Hitler, but feared him and feared in speaking/acting out against him. Not saying what they did was right . . . And some resistance did come in the form of Potterwatch. Love Lee Jordan. And Hagrid's Support Potter Party. And Snape was made headmaster after the Death Eaters had taken over the Ministry of Magic. McGonagall was Dumbledore's replacement at the end of HBP.

2 - Hermione's book was to teach them about the Deathly Hallows. Not many wizards seemd to know about them, so this was his way in making sure they knew their importance. I think Dumbledore wanted Harry to know about his cloak. And I think he wanted them to know about the Elder Wand b/c he figured V would eventually go after it. He wanted Harry to "do the right thing" with it, which he did. I liked the doe patronus showing Harry the sword, especially when I was able to figure out early on to whom it belonged.

3 - Lucius (who was not lucious) did not go to prison for V like Bellatrix. He lived well during V's recovery. V lectured Lucius on this in the graveyard in Goblet of Fire. Lucius was not in very good standing with V, perhaps the reason why Draco was trying so hard, to redeem his family. In Deathly Hallows, Lucius couldn't do much but cower once V took (and broke) his wand. Draco lived up to be the coward he always was, however he did show some class by not outright declaring the three's identities in Malfoy Manor (still my favorite chapter).

4 - I'm not too sure I liked the epilogue either. At least not right away. I could have waited to learn these things in the hopefully forthcoming encyclopedia.

5 - As for not seeing much of Snape, this whole book was seen from Harry's view. We struggled with his not knowing the goings-on of Hogwarts, the Burrow, etc. I actually loved this about the book. We suffered right along with him. Plus, JKR didn't want us to know until the end that Snape was on our side. And it was for us to suspect it at times, especially when we find out that Snape's punishment to Ginny et al was the Forbidden Forest with Hagrid. I can't believe the three didn't realize this, too. McGonagall stayed b/c she wanted to protect the students. Plus it was either stay or go to Azkaban.

Unnumbered things . . . I also loved how he repaired his old wand. I wasn't expecting that. Nice touch. And I would like to thing that after the locket, the trio knew better than to drink from Hufflepuff's cup. And the diadem was destroyed before they ever got their hands on it. Maybe JKR could have had Crabbe try it on before he set the Room of Requirement on fire.

And I actually like the camping parts. It let the readers know how desperate the situation was. How they were so alone and apart from everyone and how they had no idea what was happening. How some places were unaffected but others had dementors floating around spreading misery. I loved how they discovered dean and Ted Tonks and the goblins. I had been wondering how Dean had fared.

I loved the book from cover to cover. Going to take a break, then start all over again!

[aimo]

I believe the Slytherins did come back for the final battle, and fight against the Death Eaters.
Also, as for Snape, he was quietly working behind Voldermort's back. He managed to keep Hogwarts open, thus taking all of the children of the wizarding world into protective custody, and ensuring they stayed alive and relatively safe. Absolutely things weren't ideal at Hogwarts, as there were death eaters there too, but with all the magical protections that Hogwarts offered, the children were safer there than they would have been at their homes. Plus he had members of the Order there to keep things relatively safe. This move also kept Voldermort from using the children as leverage against their parents. At one point, I remember Snape punished Ginny and some others by having them work in the forbidden forest. It's obvious he was trying to keep the illusion of punishing them, when in reality he was throwing brer rabbit into the briar patch.

In the Great Hall, when Pansy Parkinson tried to give Harry up to save herself, the entire Slytherin section was asked to leave. And they all did. All we were told was that Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle snuck back in, but to fight WITH the Death Eaters. No other Slytherin, expect for Slughorn who we knew was against V, came back as far as we were told.

Yes, Snape was playing the perfect double-agent, though he should have done something about the physical punishments the students were getting. I mean, practicing Crucio on each other? Neville is the man!

[BluDevilGal]

One quick thing about Jason's comment about Harry and Ginny not naming a kid Fred... JKR said in one of her interviews that George named his son Fred, so maybe he had his son before H&G had theirs, so the name was already taken.

[JasonEvans]

One quick thing about Jason's comment about Harry and Ginny not naming a kid Fred... JKR said in one of her interviews that George named his son Fred, so maybe he had his son before H&G had theirs, so the name was already taken.

This is yet another reason why the epilogue sucked-- it left questions unanswered that she has had to answer elsewhere.

I think the epilogue was written merely so no one could ask her "what happens to the characters next?!?!?" and she could be done with this series. IMO, that is a really poor idea as she may want to revisit them in the future.

As an aside, supposedly Rowling is working on a detective novel now.

-Jason "after dispatching Voldy, the trio's lives seem pretty dull" Evans

[aimo]

As an aside, supposedly Rowling is working on a detective novel now.


I read today that this was a rampant rumor that started as a joke. She is apparently not working on anything right now.

[BluDevilGal]

This is yet another reason why the epilogue sucked-- it left questions unanswered that she has had to answer elsewhere.


Well, it would have been impossible to answer everyone's questions, so I guess she just decided to keep it simple and tell the bare minimum.

She is going to eventually do an encyclopedia with lots of details. Personally, I think this is better than putting lots of information in the epilogue since some people want to know everything and others would rather have it all be left to the imagination.

[JasonEvans]

Ummm, what was the baby-like thing moaning in the background when Harry and Dumbledore were talking? I am guessing it was the tiny piece of Voldy's soul that was trapped in Harry but wasn't that dead when Voldy cast the killing curse at Harry?

I just have this nagging feeling that JK rushed this book to completion and her editor did not go back with major change sugestions out of a desie to get it out as soon as possible.

-Jason "all this said, I was crying at times while reading it-- some of the losses really choked me up in a way that surprised me" Evans

[aimo]

I think it was all that was left of V's soul after the part inside Harry was killed. In the final duel scene, Harry says something like, "I've seen what you become" (I don't have the book with me to check). V apparently can't feel anything when the horcruxes are destroyed, but I think the suffering baby thing is actually V when they are both unconscious in the forest. That's all that is left of him