"past your bedtime" chant to Tyler Lewis.

[wgl1228]

I have read several articles this morning and some claim that this chant was shouted last night by the Crazies or some students concerning the recent death of Lewis's grandmother. This is disgusting and way over the line if true. Fox sports has the best article on this. I hope this is just a misunderstanding of the "past your bedtime" chant.

http://network.yardbarker.com/all_sports/article_external/nc_state_tyler_lewis_grandmother_just_died_so_duke _fans_chant_hows_your_grandma/12867799

[ChrisP]

Maybe it was the Kappa Sigs who thought the racist, anti-asian frat party was a good idea.

In all seriousness, if true, this is really, really awful and completely unacceptable. When I was a student, the crazies were at their best when supporting OUR team and cheering in a positive way. Of course, Dick Paparo did kinda deserve some of the vitriol that was sent his way, too.

[Dev11]

In following all the writers this morning, it sounds like it was an isolated small group of students who yelled something individually at Lewis, not the student section. I don't think an entire student body is capable of that much hate.

[tbyers11]

I have read several articles this morning and some claim that this chant was shouted last night by the Crazies or some students concerning the recent death of Lewis's grandmother. This is disgusting and way over the line if true. Fox sports has the best article on this. I hope this is just a misunderstanding of the "past your bedtime" chant.

http://network.yardbarker.com/all_sports/article_external/nc_state_tyler_lewis_grandmother_just_died_so_duke _fans_chant_hows_your_grandma/12867799

Not true. No one on Press Row heard it (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?30448-MBB-Duke-98-NCSU-85-Post-Game-Thread&p=624024#post624024).

Native also said he started the Past your Bedtime cheer (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?30448-MBB-Duke-98-NCSU-85-Post-Game-Thread&p=624033#post624033) by writing it on a white board

As Dev11, said maybe a few people said it but there is no concrete evidence to back that up. That Joseph Henry post is totally anonymous and lists a section that doesn't exist. There is plenty of evidence that the chant in the video clip posted by Shane Ryan was "Past your Bedtime"

[m g]

It was "past your bedtime."

[Native]

Not true. No one on Press Row heard it (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?30448-MBB-Duke-98-NCSU-85-Post-Game-Thread&p=624024#post624024).

Native also said he started the Past your Bedtime cheer (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?30448-MBB-Duke-98-NCSU-85-Post-Game-Thread&p=624033#post624033) by writing it on a white board

Courtesy of Duke Blue Planet. (http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2012-13/Games/Duke-98-NC-State-85/27914121_cPRp27#!i=2355884962&k=wNv3Wpk)

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2012-13/Games/Duke-98-NC-State-85/i-wNv3Wpk/0/M/DSC_6084-M.jpg

[ChrisP]

Just checked out that link from the OP and watched the video clip as Lewis was shooting FT's and the "how's your grandma?" chant can clearly be heard. Totally disgusting, wildly inappropriate and COMPLETELY unbecoming of the Cameron Crazies. I'd love to see the university do something drastic in response to this, but of course, I'm sure it wasn't all students who were at the game and it's going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to identify the people who were actually participating in the chant.

But how about this: Bar students from the next game and give tickets out - for free - to some underprivileged kids who will truly appreciate the honor of watching a game in Cameron and watching a great team and great coaches. And yes, I do know who the next home game is against but...tough noogies. This incident is just shameful.

Edit: Ok, I just listened again, and it could be "past your bedtime". Perhaps I overreacted on the heels of the news about that awful party by Kappa Sig.

[MCFinARL]

Just checked out that link from the OP and watched the video clip as Lewis was shooting FT's and the "how's your grandma?" chant can clearly be heard. Totally disgusting, wildly inappropriate and COMPLETELY unbecoming of the Cameron Crazies. I'd love to see the university do something drastic in response to this, but of course, I'm sure it wasn't all students who were at the game and it's going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to identify the people who were actually participating in the chant.

But how about this: Bar students from the next game and give tickets out - for free - to some underprivileged kids who will truly appreciate the honor of watching a game in Cameron and watching a great team and great coaches. And yes, I do know who the next home game is against but...tough noogies. This incident is just shameful.

I don't know, sounds like it could be "past your bedtime" to me.

[Mike Corey]

Just checked out that link from the OP and watched the video clip as Lewis was shooting FT's and the "how's your grandma?" chant can clearly be heard.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I just listened and only heard, "Past your bedtime." Laura Keeley and others in the media have reported that all they heard was "Past your bedtime" as well.

At what time did you hear the phrase?

[InSpades]

Just checked out that link from the OP and watched the video clip as Lewis was shooting FT's and the "how's your grandma?" chant can clearly be heard. Totally disgusting, wildly inappropriate and COMPLETELY unbecoming of the Cameron Crazies. I'd love to see the university do something drastic in response to this, but of course, I'm sure it wasn't all students who were at the game and it's going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to identify the people who were actually participating in the chant.

But how about this: Bar students from the next game and give tickets out - for free - to some underprivileged kids who will truly appreciate the honor of watching a game in Cameron and watching a great team and great coaches. And yes, I do know who the next home game is against but...tough noogies. This incident is just shameful.

You're kidding, right? To say that you can "clearly" hear anything the crowd says there is dishonest at best. If you listen to it with "how's your grandma" in your head then maybe that's what you hear but there's no way you would reach that conclusion if no one told you that's what was said beforehand. There's nothing to see here, let's just move on.

[grad_devil]

You're kidding, right? To say that you can "clearly" hear anything the crowd says there is dishonest at best. If you listen to it with "how's your grandma" in your head then maybe that's what you hear but there's no way you would reach that conclusion if no one told you that's what was said beforehand. There's nothing to see here, let's just move on.

I'm with InSpades here. To say you "clearly heard" anything about a grandmother is a farce and you are looking for something that doesn't really sound like it's there.

[oldnavy]

Just checked out that link from the OP and watched the video clip as Lewis was shooting FT's and the "how's your grandma?" chant can clearly be heard. Totally disgusting, wildly inappropriate and COMPLETELY unbecoming of the Cameron Crazies. I'd love to see the university do something drastic in response to this, but of course, I'm sure it wasn't all students who were at the game and it's going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to identify the people who were actually participating in the chant.

But how about this: Bar students from the next game and give tickets out - for free - to some underprivileged kids who will truly appreciate the honor of watching a game in Cameron and watching a great team and great coaches. And yes, I do know who the next home game is against but...tough noogies. This incident is just shameful.

Edit: Ok, I just listened again, and it could be "past your bedtime". Perhaps I overreacted on the heels of the news about that awful party by Kappa Sig.

The only thing that I can hear clearly on that video is "past your bedtime"... a lot of it is mumbled, but the only clear part is the bedtime chant.

[oldnavy]

You're kidding, right? To say that you can "clearly" hear anything the crowd says there is dishonest at best. If you listen to it with "how's your grandma" in your head then maybe that's what you hear but there's no way you would reach that conclusion if no one told you that's what was said beforehand. There's nothing to see here, let's just move on.

I can actually hear the bedtime chant right before the FT... maybe it is because I know to listen for it, but I can hear it. I tried to listen for the Grandma chant, and could not hear that at all...

[Duvall]

In following all the writers this morning, it sounds like it was an isolated small group of students who yelled something individually at Lewis, not the student section. I don't think an entire student body is capable of that much hate.

Of course an entire student body is capable of that kind of hate - and more- but that doesn't seem to have happened here.

[wgl1228]

I can actually hear the bedtime chant right before the FT... maybe it is because I know to listen for it, but I can hear it. I tried to listen for the Grandma chant, and could not hear that at all...

I agree. The video in the article I posted at that top is definitely not the grandma chant.

[sporthenry]

I can actually hear the bedtime chant right before the FT... maybe it is because I know to listen for it, but I can hear it. I tried to listen for the Grandma chant, and could not hear that at all...

Yeah, I can sort of hear the grandma stuff during the second half, but that is only when I listened to it. It sounds a more like bedtime but I guess that is b/c I want to hear that more. Regardless, I'm not sure how anyone can use the video as evidence when the media at the game unequivocally denies that was what was being said.

Even the one NC State reporter who was the "source" said it wasn't the whole fan base. He said it was a few kids which it may or may not have been. But even if this was the case, as despicable as it is, it really does happen at all games. If we really made a big stink about anytime something was said by a few drunk guys, ESPN would be 3 hours long.

[Bob Green]

Rick Lewis says he heard it:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/statenow/duke-fans-taunt-nc-states-lewis

I didn't hear it on my TV but that doesn't mean anything because I had the sound really low so I didn't have to hear the announcers.

[Dev11]

As Dev11, said maybe a few people said it but there is no concrete evidence to back that up. That Joseph Henry post is totally anonymous and lists a section that doesn't exist. There is plenty of evidence that the chant in the video clip posted by Shane Ryan was "Past your Bedtime"

Noted, just delivering the message. The bottom line here is that while a few bad apples MIGHT have done something disgusting, it certainly was not a coordinated effort.

[_Gary]

I clearly, without question, heard the "Past your bedtime" chant. Unfortunately I think I did also hear the other as well. But it wasn't clear and because the two chants can sound similar it was harder to be certain. For even one person to chant it is horrible though. I'll say this. If I was a student on campus and was beside any idiot that chanted that we'd have had a serious "let's step outside" type of problem. Period. That's so out of bounds it's not even funny.

[tbyers11]

Noted, just delivering the message. The bottom line here is that while a few bad apples MIGHT have done something disgusting, it certainly was not a coordinated effort.

Wasn't trying to call you out but was agreeing with your viewpoint that if anything happened it was a small isolated event and NOT the chant in the video

[vick]

Yeah, I can sort of hear the grandma stuff during the second half, but that is only when I listened to it. It sounds a more like bedtime but I guess that is b/c I want to hear that more. Regardless, I'm not sure how anyone can use the video as evidence when the media at the game unequivocally denies that was what was being said.

Even the one NC State reporter who was the "source" said it wasn't the whole fan base. He said it was a few kids which it may or may not have been. But even if this was the case, as despicable as it is, it really does happen at all games. If we really made a big stink about anytime something was said by a few drunk guys, ESPN would be 3 hours long.

Agreed. I think most people who "hear" the chant about "grandma" are genuine in that belief, but it's the power of suggestion--the same reason you have to be careful when constructing police lineups and such. For what it's worth, I sent the video to my brother (who is, sadly, a UNC fan) who hadn't watched the game and knew nothing of the controversy, and he didn't discern it, nor could he even find it when I asked him to listen for the word 'grandma' (as opposed to priming him with the whole phrase in question). Considering no reporter at the game has, to my knowledge, said there was a large scale chant about his grandmother (just the NCSt. guy who says explicitly it was a "few" people, and no way a few people come through over the entire crowd noise), I think I'm comfortable saying the people who "hear" the grandma chant are honest, but incorrect. Heck even Lewis's dad says: "It's time to move one, in my opinion. No need to make it more than a few immature comments by a few select fans."

By the way, I'm not a reflexive defender of everything the Crazies do--I thought the treatment of Dez Wells this year was pretty lousy especially given our history both with lacrosse and with Shelden's high school incident--but I just don't see it in this case.

[Native]

If I was a student on campus and was beside any idiot that chanted that we'd have had a serious "let's step outside" type of problem. Period. That's so out of bounds it's not even funny.

Yeah, if someone next to me had chanted something like that, I'd have gotten to them a lot faster than any State fan would have been able to.

[jipops]

I also heard many pro-socialism chants, I'm pretty sure I did, just try to hear it. Actually, if you listen to the game backwards you can hear satan worship. There! Now it's a story!

[WakeDevil]

They said "I buried Paul."

[Bluedog]

Just from a logical perspective, even if Duke students were that crass, there's no way a large group would say that because they would have no idea what it means. I follow college basketball very closely (I think, at least), and had no idea Tyler's grandmother passed away last week until last night when the Twitterverse went crazy. Unless it was on the cheer sheet (which it wasn't), people in the student section would clearly be confused and simply respond "WTF?" upon hearing somebody start such a "chant." According to everybody at the game, the chant was "Past your bedtime." I suppose it's possible a couple idiots shouted it separately, but it certainly wasn't in a widespread chant. As for this grad student "Joseph Henry," there is no such Joseph Henry in the student directory. And section 19, row 3, where he claims he sat doesn't exist.

Laura Keeley:


**Speaking of the crowd in Cameron, there seems to be some confusion about a particular Cameron Crazies cheer—or should I say, an imaginary cheer—directed at Tyler Lewis. In the second half, when Lewis was at the free throw line, the students chanted, "past your bedtime." I'd suspect that's because Lewis, a freshman, is a shorter guy, listed at 5-11. And hey, when you're already young and standing next to people about a foot taller than you, you can look childlike.

I actually sent out a Tweet when this happened. Check the time stamp. (Screenshot of tweet) For reasons unknown, though, some Internet folks have decided that the Crazies were really saying, "How's your Grandma?" in reference to Lewis' grandmother that died last week. That's just false.

There was no such chant.

But the Internet never let a fact get in the way of a story, and people have put out a Youtube video that allegedly supports their claim. It doesn't because that cheer never happened. I actually asked five other sportswriters if they heard the Grandma cheer. None of them did.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/postgame-thoughts-from-dukes-98-85-win-vs-nc-state#storylink=cpy
(please don't cite me for copyright infringement; i tried to remove as much as possible, but I think the full context is important to understand the timeline of events...)

I think the lesson to be learned from the Crazies perspective going forward is that they need to improve their diction. ;)

[Bob Green]

They said "I buried Paul."

You beat me to a great punchline!

[DukeGirl4ever]

Rick Lewis says he heard it:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/statenow/duke-fans-taunt-nc-states-lewis

I didn't hear it on my TV but that doesn't mean anything because I had the sound really low so I didn't have to hear the announcers.

I haven't listened to or watched the videos with the chant yet. Nor do I want to.

I do want to say that Lewis' father is taking the correct approach (unlike the rest of the media world):

"It's time to move one, in my opinion," Lewis said. "No need to make it more than a few immature comments by a few select fans."

If he truly means that, I have great respect for him.

[PADukeMom]

People are going to hear what they want to hear. I have listened to the cheer & can't make out what was being said. I can't imagine K not going ballastic if it was said.
If it was cheered by a select group...really low class.

[Lar77]

Just from a logical perspective, even if Duke students were that crass, there's no way a large group would say that because they would have no idea what it means. I follow college basketball very closely (I think, at least), and had no idea Tyler's grandmother passed away last week until last night when the Twitterverse went crazy. Unless it was on the cheer sheet (which it wasn't), people in the student section would clearly be confused and simply respond "WTF?" upon hearing somebody start such a "chant." According to everybody at the game, the chant was "Past your bedtime." I suppose it's possible a couple idiots shouted it separately, but it certainly wasn't in a widespread chant. As for this grad student "Joseph Henry," there is no such Joseph Henry in the student directory. And section 19, row 3, where he claims he sat doesn't exist.

Laura Keeley:



http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/postgame-thoughts-from-dukes-98-85-win-vs-nc-state#storylink=cpy
(please don't cite me for copyright infringement; i tried to remove as much as possible, but I think the full context is important to understand the timeline of events...)

I think the lesson to be learned from the Crazies perspective going forward is that they need to improve their diction. ;)

The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.

Diction? How can you have diction when your head coach starts his name with 5 consonants?:D

If (big if) anyone did a "grandma" taunt, grow up. I thought the "past your bedtime" cheer was great.

[jimsumner]

I heard "past your bedtime" and "Bilbo Baggins" chants directed at Lewis. I did not hear anything referencing his grandmother, do not hear it on the tape and think the whole thing is malicious nonsense.

And I was there. In the house. In front of the Crazies. And I trust my ears.

[sbroc012]

And this is now on the frontpage of MSN!
I have listened multiple times to the clip and everytime when the word grandma should be said I hear the t in bedtime pretty clearly, which tells me it can't be grandma being said.
This is just a good opportunity for the "Duke haters" to come out of the woodwork and get their jab in.
Heck, I now fully expect the crazies to come out with some witty fully pronounced can't decipher it anyway wrong type of chant at the next home game!

[killerleft]

I think it was "Bless-ed are the cheesemakers".

[devilish]

Heck, I now fully expect the crazies to come out with some witty fully pronounced can't decipher it anyway wrong type of chant at the next home game!

Blah blah blah blah! CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP

[devilsadvocate85]

I was at the game upstairs and the chant was CLEARLY heard as "past your bedtime" - many people around me were laughing and commenting about the chant.

[Matches]

People are going to hear what they want to hear. I have listened to the cheer & can't make out what was being said. I can't imagine K not going ballastic if it was said.


Exactly. K has stopped games and called fans out for less. Remember the Robbie Reid/ Chris Burgess incident.

I love how this is a story but Maryland fans chanting (very loudly and very clearly) about JJ Redick's sister was a footnote. At worst this was a few idiots acting out, but to the media it's "The Duke Fans Did This."

More than a little shameful in its attempt to stir up a story where there isn't one (and thereby generate those all-important page hits).

[billy]

I was at the game upstairs and the chant was CLEARLY heard as "past your bedtime" - many people around me were laughing and commenting about the chant.

I was there as well, above the rail, and heard the "Past your bedtime" also. I didn't hear the other said or chanted, but, until reading this thread didn't know anything about his grandmother. I believe "Past your bedtime" was written on the whiteboard and briefly showed on the Cameron video-screen (without the other text on the photo in page one, i.e., just the cheer "Past your bedtime"). Thought the "Past your bedtime" was somewhat amusing except for the fact that he was playing his tail off.

[JasonEvans]

I think it was "Bless-ed are the cheesemakers".

I cannot stop laughing at this. Brilliant Life of Brian reference, my friend!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xLUEMj6cwA

-Jason "pitchfork points for you!" Evans

[-jk]

I'll chime in as well. I was sitting just behind the students across from the visitors' bench. "Past your bedtime" is all I heard.

People hear what they want to hear, though. And haters gonna hate. Alas.

-jk

[moonpie23]

could someone get me the sound clip? i'm sick of hearing about it.....

pm me with a link please......i'll check it out...

[Dukebuckets]

Out of the 20 years I've watched/heard the Duke student section, they have always been thorough with their research, but clever enough they don't have to stoop so low. One drunk shouldn't make headlines for bad decisions.

[Dukebuckets]

Out of the 20 years I've watched/heard the Duke student section, they have always been thorough with their research, but clever enough they don't have to stoop so low. One drunk shouldn't make headlines for bad decisions.

Plus Tyler lewis looks like this character from Harry Potter.

[sdwGT2]

Sheesh, I still remember when the Crazies threw panties on the floor when one of the opposing players (perhaps a State player) was accused of rape, Domino's pizza boxes when someone was accused of robbing a pizza delivery driver, and shaking car keys for either a car theft accusation, or improper benefit. Can't remember all the details. How about "J.R. can't Reid"?

I am not condoning the few, isolated students who may have been insensitive last night, but c'mon, far worse has been uttered in Cameron.

[jimsumner]

Sheesh, I still remember when the Crazies threw panties on the floor when one of the opposing players (perhaps a State player) was accused of rape, Domino's pizza boxes when someone was accused of robbing a pizza delivery driver, and shaking car keys for either a car theft accusation, or improper benefit. Can't remember all the details. How about "J.R. can't Reid"?

I am not condoning the few, isolated students who may have been insensitive last night, but c'mon, far worse has been uttered in Cameron.

Herman Veal. Maryland. 1984.
Note that these incidents all took place in the 1970s and 1980s.

[devil84]

Another first hand account from section 11 here. I will say that a lot of the blah-blah-blah-blah clap-clap clapclapclap cheers are difficult to discern upstairs. Usually people lean over and ask each other what the Crazies are chanting. This particular cheer was very clearly "Past your bedtime," causing a lot of chuckling in section 11. It was backed up by the white board that said "Past your bedtime." There is a picture posted in another thread that says something like, "Attention Crazies: It's past Lewis' bedtime." I saw that a few minutes or so prior to the chant in question at the timeout. During the chant in question, the white board said "Past your bedtime."

If someone was in Cameron and paying attention to the entire crowd, including the white board, they would have read what the crowd was chanting. Unless they can't read...

[devil84]

Sheesh, I still remember when the Crazies threw panties on the floor when one of the opposing players (perhaps a State player) was accused of rape, Domino's pizza boxes when someone was accused of robbing a pizza delivery driver, and shaking car keys for either a car theft accusation, or improper benefit. Can't remember all the details. How about "J.R. can't Reid"?

I am not condoning the few, isolated students who may have been insensitive last night, but c'mon, far worse has been uttered in Cameron.
Herman Veal. Maryland. 1984.
Note that these incidents all took place in the 1970s and 1980s.

And we were admonished by Uncle Terry with his Avuncular Letter (http://library.duke.edu/uarchives/images/cameron/avuncular.jpg).

[hindugrass]

for the person who requested it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ9O2KOwjOk

i listened trying to hear the alleged words, and the closest i could get was "has your grendmine."

also, didn't state fans chant "killed your grandpa" at chris paul a few years back?

[UrinalCake]

Sheesh, I still remember when the Crazies threw panties on the floor when one of the opposing players (perhaps a State player) was accused of rape, Domino's pizza boxes when someone was accused of robbing a pizza delivery driver, and shaking car keys for either a car theft accusation, or improper benefit. Can't remember all the details.

Those are all pretty vulgar things to say/do, but at least you could say in those situations that the player actually did something to bring it upon themselves. Not so in the case of a deceased family member.

I'm continuing to hear arguments both ways - that they said it and that they didn't. The YouTube clip is unclear to me. So I'm not sure what to believe.

[UrinalCake]

also, didn't state fans chant "killed your grandpa" at chris paul a few years back?

I remember hearing about that - something like "I shot your father" - but again it was one or two people who yelled it out, not the whole crowd, and I'm pretty sure Sendek addressed the issue once he found out about it and made sure it wouldn't happen again.

[Mike Corey]

I spoke with Duke. They are trying to be proactive about this, and have spoken to 30-plus individuals--media, students, fans around the student section--and no one heard the alleged chant. No one has heard it in listening to the clip linked above. Duke's trying to be proactive about this, but as the cheer sheet indicated, and as the photo of the student section with the dry erase board shows, the planned chant--and the chant folks at the game heard--was the innocuous, "Past your bedtime."

Duke is being inundated with calls from the media, from ESPN on down about the story.

It's telling, to me, that Coach Gottfried did not say anything during or after the game. You would think he would have reacted had he heard it.

Is it still possible a few guys said something jaw-droppingly inappropriate? Of course. That's always possible.

But this is being painted with a brush that is too broad, and for no reason other than a few folks tweeted about it, as far as I can tell.

[sdwGT2]

Perhaps a little Crazies "justice" would be the best resolution to what may have been said last night. If any of the Crazies saw who said something insensitive, they can police themselves. I'm sure they do this anyway.

[hindugrass]

I remember hearing about that - something like "I shot your father" - but again it was one or two people who yelled it out, not the whole crowd, and I'm pretty sure Sendek addressed the issue once he found out about it and made sure it wouldn't happen again.

yeah, i can't remember the details. i just find the current level of indignation over either a misheard chant or possibly a complete fabrication amplified through the twitterverse more than a bit ironic in light of that.

[stickdog]

But this is being painted with a brush that is too broad, and for no reason other than a few folks tweeted about it, as far as I can tell.

And because it is Duke, the school that gets trashed for the stupid Halloween costume decisions of individual students and (GASP!) its coach offering a recruit a scholarship.

[stickdog]

for the person who requested it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ9O2KOwjOk

i listened trying to hear the alleged words, and the closest i could get was "has your grendmine."

also, didn't state fans chant "killed your grandpa" at chris paul a few years back?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/08/sports/basketball/08paul.html?_r=0

Last year, however, North Carolina State fans used that story against him. Paul said he heard students trying to rattle him by yelling, "I killed your grandfather."

Amid the emotion, Paul punched N.C. State's Julius Hodge in the groin and was suspended for the Demon Deacons' next game, a loss to the Wolfpack in the Atlantic Coast Conference tournament.

He received an unexpected reminder of the incident last month, he said, in the form of an e-mail apology from one of the North Carolina State fans who had shouted at Paul.

[oldnavy]

Do you ever get the feeling that we are living in a society where a good proportion of the people in it "want to be offened"?? And if we don't provide them with offensive material, they will invent something? I do.

[Reisen]

Front page of SI.com

The media is absolutely ridiculous these days...

[killerleft]

for the person who requested it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ9O2KOwjOk

i listened trying to hear the alleged words, and the closest i could get was "has your grendmine."

also, didn't state fans chant "killed your grandpa" at chris paul a few years back?

If that's the chant in question, somebody at State (and, indeed, at all these websites that are making the silly reports) needs to apologize to the Duke students. It sounds like "past your bedtime", but one thing it definitely does NOT sound like is "how's your grandma?". It is just amazing that, with nothing more than a baseless accusation resulting from a misheard chant, that this is still an issue. Well, except for that whole thing about people being willing to believe just about anything or just maliciously agreeing for the heck of it.

[oldnavy]

If that's the chant in question, somebody at State (and, indeed, at all these websites that are making the silly reports) needs to apologize to the Duke students. It sounds like "past your bedtime", but one thing it definitely does NOT sound like is "how's your grandma?". It is just amazing that, with nothing more than a baseless accusation resulting from a misheard chant, that this is still an issue. Well, except for that whole thing about people being willing to believe just about anything or just maliciously agreeing for the heck of it.

Or, a population that craves the 'victum' role and seeks it out. Someone out there "wanted" to be offended by Duke or the Cameron Crazies, so they took the opportunity, fine... "be offended" as Jay Bilas told Dan What'shisname....

What I can't see how 'media' types can perpetuate this kind of stuff when, members of their own profession that were there are publicly saying that IT DID NOT HAPPEN??

[jimsumner]

I'm continuing to hear arguments both ways - that they said it and that they didn't. The YouTube clip is unclear to me. So I'm not sure what to believe.

Let me help you out.

IT

DID

NOT

HAPPEN

I was there. I'm not relying on a youtube video, a tweet or an internet fantasy. The Duke students chanted "Past Your Bedtime" at Lewis, loudly and repeatedly. It was quite clear. Quite obvious. I cannnot state with absolute certainty that there wasn't one cretin in the stands who referenced his grandmother, although I find it unlikely. But I can state with absolute, 100 percent certainty that there was no "How's Your Grandmother" chant last night.

[CameronConvert]

Hey all,

Long time lurker here, I'm in my senior year here at Duke and have attended just about every home game during my four years. The Crazies often toe the line between being creative or unoriginal, crass or witty, enthusiastic or mean, but in this case there is a tremendous amount of hype over nothing. I understand that the national media narrative built around the skewed image of Duke makes it impossible to really win this battle, but I want to assure the entire Duke fan community that this chant was categorically "past your bedtime" and that the Lewis' family tragedy was at no point referenced. I was standing right in the middle of the student section, saw Native write the chant on the whiteboard, and heard it spread throughout the student section. The part where it seems to change and where people are claiming they heard "How's your grandma" came in between the two free throws when the chanting became disjointed and out of rhythm--that was only a function of people being unsure if the chant would continue on for Lewis' second shot. It is certainly possible that a few kids shouted something about his grandma--there are certainly crass and drunk Crazies at every game--but a chant like that would've been shouted down the instant it was picked up. Duke students aren't perfect, but it's so incredibly frustrating to watch this play out on Twitter knowing that it is in reality, 100% categorically false.

I know there's not really anything any of us can say to convince the national media, but anyone who was there and listening would know this was a line that the Crazies would not--and did not--cross.

[-bdbd]

Of course an entire student body is capable of that kind of hate - and more- but that doesn't seem to have happened here.

Obviously you've never been to a game in College Park... :rolleyes:

[_Gary]

I never for one second thought there was any "official" or organized chant (just to be clear). That thought would have never entered my mind, but after reading some of the silly articles and statements being made, I realize now that's what some are trying to accuse the Crazies of. Well, that's just crazy because any sane person has got to know a chant like that would simply never be part of the official sheets. Not only that, I never even imagined that *if* anything had been said it was being said by more than a couple of morons. And the *if* is sounding more and more like it definitely didn't happen at all. So as far as I'm concerned it's a done deal.

Thanks to all the folks that have chimed in with actual, in person, analysis and information.

[UrinalCake]

Let me help you out.

IT

DID

NOT

HAPPEN.

Ok that's good to know. I'm currently being skewered on my Facebook page by people finding tidbits around the Internet including supposed eyewitness accounts from Duke students themselves who are now ashamed of their school. They claim it wasn't an organized chant, but something that several students (more than one or two) were trying to start and get others to join in. But none of it is verifiable. I agree with those who say its an argument you really can't win when it comes to dealing with people who just want to hate Duke.

[jdj4duke]

The hypocrisy of the outrage is beyond measure. Where were all these folks (ESPN, Yahoo, Fox Sports, SI, all of them) when the Terp student body wore the Duck Fuke shirts, took off after after JJ and his entire family, conked Boozer's mom, chanted "let him die" after Nolan's concussion, and on and on. Hey, not on an anti-Terp rant here. Just that they are always good for illustration.

Other fans? VT? There's a bunch of angels. WVU? Sweet hearts. Everyone on this board can come with their own list of flagrant offenders. Heck, all you have to do is turn on any broadcast game, and then clear the kids out of the room.

Did a couple of jackasses say something rude? Who knows. If so, then shame on them. Earth shattering? Hardly. But the response from media and the holier than thou outrage of everyone else is craven. Yes, Duke gets more than its share of good press. It also gets more than its share of hyperbolic and fantasy-based outrage. Next we'll hear that the University officially approves every offensive graffito in Durham County.

No response from Lewis or State yet, as far as I know, but if they heard it, then say it. If they didn't, then say that. Ridiculous. Trying to make an unsubstantiated tweet basically into the equivalent of what was said to Steve Kerr years ago is pitiful. It won't matter how many refutations are put out, how many disclaimers by anyone (media, students, or officials), or how much contrary evidence is submitted. There is just no arguing with stupid. As someone else said here, folks love to feel offended. So, to those folks, I say be offended, be asinine, and be gone.

And when Duke travels to somewhere else and subjected to some real and well-heard nonsense or vicious, nasty, profane, or threatening taunts, I will wait patiently for the media to jump all over that. Waiting for a real long time.

[DukeFanSince1990]

I heard "there's a bathroom on the right".

[taiw93]

I was also at the game, and am unbelievably frustrated by the response. It is worth noting that I have not seen A SINGLE PERSON WHO WAS AT THE GAME claim that there was a mass cheer about Lewis' grandma; they all agree that the chant was "Past your bedtime," as written on Native's whiteboard. I acknowledge that it is certainly possible that a few idiots said nasty things about Lewis' grandmother (as Lewis' dad and the NC State student journalist reported), but all evidence (aside the "damning video evidence" from a few attention-seekers who were not even at the game and based their knowledge on an unclear TV audio feed *cough, Shane Ryan*) points to the fact that it was not done on a mass scale.
Jokes about Lewis looking young appeared on the cheer sheet and on the video board (via Native's whiteboard), and they are pretty easy to figure out based on his appearance. However, there is NO WAY that crazies would know about the passing of Lewis' grandmother. Given that it was not on the cheer sheet and was not major ACC news (I am someone who follows MBB more than most students and had not heard of this prior to the controversy), it is hard to believe that more than a number of Duke students would have known enough about Lewis' life for this chant to take hold. Sorry, we have too much work for classes to be researching the Lewis family death records on a widespread scale.

[daveyro]

I guess I'm old school (class of 83) and I'll get killed for this, but the "haters" see K-Ville, official chant sheets (I've never heard of such a thing in any other program), crowd surfing Vitale, mean spirited ("not our rivals"), and somewhat precious, holier than thou sensibilities from our "crazies." I talk hoops a lot and keep hearing "your student body is an embarrasment". Why are there no Michigan State haters (except for Michigan)? They are excellent year in and year out. Even Carolina has no haters outside of the triangle. The only national programs that have universal haters are Notre Dame and the Cowboys - maybe the Lakers and Celtics. Don't want to be lumped in with that crew. I'd like to be wrong, but I recall K saying he would prefer if the fans chanted for our own team and not against the other team, when my classmates kept jangling car keys at an opponent accused of stealing a car. No wonder everyone is eager to believe it was a grandma cheat. It fits the image we've built for ourselves.

Just trying to keep the conversation lively, as Bill Hurt said in some movie.

Pile on.....

[Ichabod Drain]

The hypocrisy of the outrage is beyond measure. Where were all these folks (ESPN, Yahoo, Fox Sports, SI, all of them) when the Terp student body wore the Duck Fuke shirts, took off after after JJ and his entire family, conked Boozer's mom, chanted "let him die" after Nolan's concussion, and on and on. Hey, not on an anti-Terp rant here. Just that they are always good for illustration.

Other fans? VT? There's a bunch of angels. WVU? Sweet hearts. Everyone on this board can come with their own list of flagrant offenders. Heck, all you have to do is turn on any broadcast game, and then clear the kids out of the room.

Did a couple of jackasses say something rude? Who knows. If so, then shame on them. Earth shattering? Hardly. But the response from media and the holier than thou outrage of everyone else is craven. Yes, Duke gets more than its share of good press. It also gets more than its share of hyperbolic and fantasy-based outrage. Next we'll hear that the University officially approves every offensive graffito in Durham County.

No response from Lewis or State yet, as far as I know, but if they heard it, then say it. If they didn't, then say that. Ridiculous. Trying to make an unsubstantiated tweet basically into the equivalent of what was said to Steve Kerr years ago is pitiful. It won't matter how many refutations are put out, how many disclaimers by anyone (media, students, or officials), or how much contrary evidence is submitted. There is just no arguing with stupid. As someone else said here, folks love to feel offended. So, to those folks, I say be offended, be asinine, and be gone.

And when Duke travels to somewhere else and subjected to some real and well-heard nonsense or vicious, nasty, profane, or threatening taunts, I will wait patiently for the media to jump all over that. Waiting for a real long time.


In their defense no additional response was neccesary from media outlets after Gerald brought down the house.

[Dev11]

the "haters" see ... official chant sheets (I've never heard of such a thing in any other program) ... and keep hearing "your student body is an embarrasment". Why are there no Michigan State haters (except for Michigan)?

First off, I know that other ACC schools use cheer sheets. I recall that NC State and Maryland have used them in recent years. It's not uncommon, and even if schools aren't using cheer sheets, there are other similar ways that fans get the word out about cheers they want to coordinate at games.

Duke is unique in its continued success in basketball coupled with the academic reputation of the school. Add in the fact that many of the most successful players have been white, and voila, its a hated program. There isn't much to analyze.

[RockLobster]

I also wanted to point out that the comment on the Chronicle blog that was allegedly written by a Duke student named "Joseph Henry" who said he heard the "grandma" chant reeks of B.S. This person said he was in "Section 19, Row 3"...the chant in question here came from section 18, behind the baseline where the band is.

If folks who were actually in section 18 didn't hear it, there's no way this guy could have. I think this is someone who wants to make us look bad and screwed up when he wrote down the wrong section. Funny how it's being cited by all these blogs as "proof" when it's obviously suspect.

[freshmanjs]

I guess I'm old school (class of 83) and I'll get killed for this, but the "haters" see K-Ville, official chant sheets (I've never heard of such a thing in any other program), crowd surfing Vitale, mean spirited ("not our rivals"), and somewhat precious, holier than thou sensibilities from our "crazies." I talk hoops a lot and keep hearing "your student body is an embarrasment". Why are there no Michigan State haters (except for Michigan)? They are excellent year in and year out. Even Carolina has no haters outside of the triangle. The only national programs that have universal haters are Notre Dame and the Cowboys - maybe the Lakers and Celtics. Don't want to be lumped in with that crew. I'd like to be wrong, but I recall K saying he would prefer if the fans chanted for our own team and not against the other team, when my classmates kept jangling car keys at an opponent accused of stealing a car. No wonder everyone is eager to believe it was a grandma cheat. It fits the image we've built for ourselves.


duke stirs up emotions relating to class, elitism, and (in the south) carpetbaggers. add that to the typical backlash to the very most successful sports teams (yankees, patriots) and it's not all that surprising. also nothing to be done about it. much of it is unfair, but it is not going away. just carry on.

[oldnavy]

I guess I'm old school (class of 83) and I'll get killed for this, but the "haters" see K-Ville, official chant sheets (I've never heard of such a thing in any other program), crowd surfing Vitale, mean spirited ("not our rivals"), and somewhat precious, holier than thou sensibilities from our "crazies." I talk hoops a lot and keep hearing "your student body is an embarrasment". Why are there no Michigan State haters (except for Michigan)? They are excellent year in and year out. Even Carolina has no haters outside of the triangle. The only national programs that have universal haters are Notre Dame and the Cowboys - maybe the Lakers and Celtics. Don't want to be lumped in with that crew. I'd like to be wrong, but I recall K saying he would prefer if the fans chanted for our own team and not against the other team, when my classmates kept jangling car keys at an opponent accused of stealing a car. No wonder everyone is eager to believe it was a grandma cheat. It fits the image we've built for ourselves.

Just trying to keep the conversation lively, as Bill Hurt said in some movie.

Pile on.....

Quilt?

I'm not buying it, but if it works for you, have at it.

[scottdude8]

First off, I know that other ACC schools use cheer sheets. I recall that NC State and Maryland have used them in recent years. It's not uncommon, and even if schools aren't using cheer sheets, there are other similar ways that fans get the word out about cheers they want to coordinate at games.

Duke is unique in its continued success in basketball coupled with the academic reputation of the school. Add in the fact that many of the most successful players have been white, and voila, its a hated program. There isn't much to analyze.

Michigan has also begun using cheer sheets, for the record.

[Native]

First off, I know that other ACC schools use cheer sheets.

NC State (http://oldnorthbanter.com/2013/01/12/photo-nc-state-cheer-sheet-for-duke/).
Maryland (http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9060/83732748175200c0ca44b.jpg).
Carolina (http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2447/53727734930516851789218.jpg).

Et cetera, et cetera. Everyone uses them, or has at one point or another. Everyone.

And furthermore, ours do not have any scripted cheers or anything on them. Last night, it had a few classics — "Culture/Agriculture", "Start Your Tractors", and so forth — but typically we have no scripted material. We actually refer to them as "dirt sheets" now — it's just information (nothing too sinister, either) on opposing players.

It's a common misconception that everything we do is still scripted by a "cheer sheet".

[wilko]

Is it bad or terrible that I don't even care?

I generally thought the crowd was a its best when the teams were at their worst. AND it was then the job of the crowd to distract or irritate the opponent into making poor plays in order to affect a favorable Duke outcome.

You want good comedy, you have to take some chances.
Its a tad disingenuous to say the Crazies have lots their edge when you neuter them. I would counter point that high profile athletes are Public Figures and should be able to handle the heat.

This is ONLY a discussion because it Duke.

[Mike Corey]

No wonder everyone is eager to believe it was a grandma cheat. It fits the image we've built for ourselves.

Respectfully, I'd suggest the former is because it belies the latter.

Cameron Crazies are bemoaned in the media now for having simultaneously lost their edge and for being too edgy. Can't be both.

Further, the "cheer sheets" are being misrepresented. They do not solely represent that which must be uttered. They offer ideas and information to help inform spontaneous cheering, as well as guiding cheers.

The sheet in question, of course, did not include any sort of encouragement to mock the loss of Tyler Lewis' grandmother.

The Crazies' reputation and Duke's reputation are presented as unimpeachable, which irks fans who want the very schadenfreude that circumstances like this encourage. Any attempt to drag down Duke is seized because we've been good and praised for how we've gotten there.

I suspect StrayGator would argue that a similar phenomenon led to the critiques of Tebow. People--myself included--looked for any flaw to expose and extrapolate.

It's been happening to Duke for some time, rightly or wrongly.

Undoubtedly, Duke basketball and its followers are very imperfect. And we have to know and acknowledge that. But we also have to know and acknowledge that there is self-policing of our community, and self-pride, too: mocking someone for a dead grandmother is not endorseable in any way, shape or form, and there is fortunately no indication that it happened in this situation, en masse or otherwise.

[DU82]

Just checking in after work, and can't believe this. I was in the back row in the end zone upstairs, and it was pretty clearly "Past Your Bedtime" (especially after seeing the white board message during the previous timeout.) Even the State fans next to us were laughing.

[Andre Buckner Fan]

This is ridiculous. When I was a student, Coach K repeatedly shut down cheers I didn't even hear. (The cheer of a sexual nature directed at UVa's Donald Hand, for instance.)

There was no organization behind this chant. Whether or not a couple of idiots screamed it is moot. A couple of idiots have always screamed something at nearly every sports game. The allegation is that there was an organized chant, and the retreat position of "well, maybe a couple of idiots said it" is not acceptable as an alternate allegation.

If an allegation is false, retract it. It's beyond cheap to minimize it into an irrefutable and therefore safer allegation. There's no proof there was an organized chant. There is plenty of proof it wasn't. Therefore, this is a non-story. The new story ought to be the twitter-hype and false allegations.

[arnie]

I also wanted to point out that the comment on the Chronicle blog that was allegedly written by a Duke student named "Joseph Henry" who said he heard the "grandma" chant reeks of B.S. This person said he was in "Section 19, Row 3"...the chant in question here came from section 18, behind the baseline where the band is.

If folks who were actually in section 18 didn't hear it, there's no way this guy could have. I think this is someone who wants to make us look bad and screwed up when he wrote down the wrong section. Funny how it's being cited by all these blogs as "proof" when it's obviously suspect.

This is all coming from State Fan. State Fan has never seen his team lose a fair competition. State Fan blames the refs/weather/temperature in the arena every single time they loose. Of course, there was no chant - even the sportswriters and other media right in front of the students didn't hear it. Simply a way for State Fan to divert attention away from Duke's good performance and his own team's inadequacy. The lead-in to the local news even featured the chant.

[stickdog]

I guess I'm old school (class of 83) and I'll get killed for this, but the "haters" see K-Ville, official chant sheets (I've never heard of such a thing in any other program), crowd surfing Vitale, mean spirited ("not our rivals"), and somewhat precious, holier than thou sensibilities from our "crazies." I talk hoops a lot and keep hearing "your student body is an embarrasment". Why are there no Michigan State haters (except for Michigan)? They are excellent year in and year out. Even Carolina has no haters outside of the triangle. The only national programs that have universal haters are Notre Dame and the Cowboys - maybe the Lakers and Celtics. Don't want to be lumped in with that crew. I'd like to be wrong, but I recall K saying he would prefer if the fans chanted for our own team and not against the other team, when my classmates kept jangling car keys at an opponent accused of stealing a car. No wonder everyone is eager to believe it was a grandma cheat. It fits the image we've built for ourselves.

Just trying to keep the conversation lively, as Bill Hurt said in some movie.

Pile on.....

LOL. Did you ever go to a Duke game when you were at Duke? Because if you ever did, Meagher himself probably would have spit in your face.

[stickdog]

I also wanted to point out that the comment on the Chronicle blog that was allegedly written by a Duke student named "Joseph Henry" who said he heard the "grandma" chant reeks of B.S. This person said he was in "Section 19, Row 3"...the chant in question here came from section 18, behind the baseline where the band is.

If folks who were actually in section 18 didn't hear it, there's no way this guy could have. I think this is someone who wants to make us look bad and screwed up when he wrote down the wrong section. Funny how it's being cited by all these blogs as "proof" when it's obviously suspect.

Nor is anyone with that name a current grad student at Duke.

[killerleft]

I guess I'm old school (class of 83) and I'll get killed for this, but the "haters" see K-Ville, official chant sheets (I've never heard of such a thing in any other program), crowd surfing Vitale, mean spirited ("not our rivals"), and somewhat precious, holier than thou sensibilities from our "crazies." I talk hoops a lot and keep hearing "your student body is an embarrasment". Why are there no Michigan State haters (except for Michigan)? They are excellent year in and year out. Even Carolina has no haters outside of the triangle. The only national programs that have universal haters are Notre Dame and the Cowboys - maybe the Lakers and Celtics. Don't want to be lumped in with that crew. I'd like to be wrong, but I recall K saying he would prefer if the fans chanted for our own team and not against the other team, when my classmates kept jangling car keys at an opponent accused of stealing a car. No wonder everyone is eager to believe it was a grandma cheat. It fits the image we've built for ourselves.

Just trying to keep the conversation lively, as Bill Hurt said in some movie.

Pile on.....

daveyro, this is such a masochistic post I can almost see you tied up and crying out, "Troll!"

[Newton_14]

Another eyewitness account here. I was in Section 1 last night. The chant was Past Your Bedtime. Loud and clear. At no point in that game was there ever a chant about grandma. Not once. The infamous U-Tube clip is from the time when the Past Your Bedtime chant was chanted, when Lewis was shooting the foul shots. I find it comical that people in this thread listened to the clip and state they heard how's your grandma. Actually, wait, no, I find that sad, and I have a nice piece of beach front property up in Granville County I would love to sell to you since you are so gullible.

I also saw Native's white board when he held it up for all to see front and back of him. I always find Native in the crowd as he is my favorite crazie, and it helps me stay in tune with what the Crazies are up to. His sign clearly said Past Your Bedtime. The word grandma did not appear. There were two State Fans seated next to me. They saw the White board, and heard the chants. They laughed.

Sadly, it will never matter. According to State fans, the pic of Native's White board shown in this very thread was "Photo-Shopped". That's the world we live in. Truth no longer matters. The record will forever show that the Cameron Crazies taunted a poor, grieving freshman about his recently deceased grandmother.

To their credit, Adam Gold and his partner Joe, who were both at the game seated on press row right in front of the Crazies, totally dismissed the mythical chant on their radio show today and laughed and ridiculed any caller that tried to make the case. As did the WRAl Sports Reporter Jeff Gravely, when they had him on as a guest. Jeff sat just down from Adam and Joe.

That the National Media outlets ran with it just shows the current media environment we live in is one where The National Enquirer should be winning awards. They are now just as credible as all the major media outlets that used to ridicule The NE as a producer of trash. So sorry SI, ESPN, NBC, CBS, ABC, and FOX, the joke's on you now. You are so trashy you should sell your stuff at the local grocery store on the same rack as the rest of the tabloids.

[UrinalCake]

I also wanted to point out that the comment on the Chronicle blog that was allegedly written by a Duke student named "Joseph Henry" who said he heard the "grandma" chant reeks of B.S. This person said he was in "Section 19, Row 3"...the chant in question here came from section 18, behind the baseline where the band is..

I don't know if things have changed since the late-90's when I was a student, but nobody called it "section 19." We called it the "non-TV side." I didn't even know the lower sections had numbers until several years after I graduated. And we never used row numbers either. This whole post looked to me like it came from some State or UNC fan who concocted a story and then looked up a seating chart online in order to reference a location and make himself sound believable.

[RockLobster]

I don't know if things have changed since the late-90's when I was a student, but nobody called it "section 19." We called it the "non-TV side." I didn't even know the lower sections had numbers until several years after I graduated. And we never used row numbers either. This whole post looked to me like it came from some State or UNC fan who concocted a story and then looked up a seating chart online in order to reference a location and make himself sound believable.

This too; I happen to know this because of ticket maps I've looked at since I graduated. But when I was there (05-09, not that long ago), no one referred to the numbers. We said either "TV side," "non-TV side," or "grad section." Just adds more layers of doubt to this.

Apparently Shane Ryan says that he knows some guy from State who was there swear up and down that he heard the offending chant. But I haven't heard anyone from Duke on any website say so, nor any neutral reporter or other person who was there.

Folks on the comment section on the Chronicle blog have called the poster on some of this stuff, but of course, it's an internet comments thread, so there's also plenty of half-baked opinions from fans of other teams (and some Duke fans who couldn't be bothered to look into this other than viewing a <1 minute clip and listening for what they're told to listen for by the folks who made this a story).

[-jk]

"Paul is dead"

Or so they say.

-jk

[Newton_14]

"Paul is dead"

Or so they say.

-jk


Meanwhile Elvis and JFK are currently sipping on wine coolers down in the Cayman Islands. Saw it on the internet just the other day, with pics and everything so it is definitely legit.

[dyedwab]

I have been at a medium level of burn about his all day, so this may go a little long. In the world I live in professionally, when attacked, you decided whether the attack merits a response and how big of one. This one requires a huge blowback - in my mind this is the long overdue tipping point at which we aggressively respond to the anti-Duke feeling in the media.

First of all, NO ONE who was at the game and not affiliated with NCSTATE thinks that chant happened. I'll take Jim Sumner word over virtually any of he 9000 plus people in the stadium but Laura Keeley (http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/postgame-thoughts-from-dukes-98-85-win-vs-nc-state), Bret Streslow (http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbasketball/February-2013/-Past-your-bedtime--chant-at-Tyler-Lewis,-who-lost), Adam Gold (https://twitter.com/AGoldFan/status/299892237867814912), and Steve Wiseman (http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/duke/x1733191950/Lewis-father-ready-to-move-on-after-discussing-reported-chant) - all reporters who cover Duke regularly also agree that it didn't happen.

Shane Ryan thinks it did (http://tobaccoroadblues.com/2013/02/08/did-the-cameron-crazies-taunt-tyler-lewis-about-his-grandmothers-death-and-what-does-it-say-about-duke/) - and I disagree, but his whole post about Duke hatred is especially good, and especially relevant today.

Point is - no organized chant of this nature occurred and the worst possibility is that some knuckle heads did it. But if it were just some knuckle heads, no one would care about it. The POINT of this attack is to discredit Duke's student body, and by doing that, discrediting the Duke community.

But here's the problem. Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports (https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/299927131100704768), who broke the Miami booster story thinks it happened. And he got it from a guy who covers Michigan State football for the Detroit Free Press (https://twitter.com/joerexrode/status/299926335948734464) Buster Olney of ESPN (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/299925562871386112), a well respected baseball reporter thinks in happened. Andy Glockner (https://twitter.com/AndyGlockner/status/299928825872121856) thinks it did happened (and I got into a fight on Twitter with his today about it. He says he is not blaming all of the Duke student body. My point, which he didn't get was that if you only thought that this was about a couple of idiots, its not story.)

I get that a couple of these guy backed off. But the problem here is that their first inclination was to believe something that was 1) bad for Duke yet 2) not true and 3) reported to be not true by their colleagues. I'm not a fan of attributing reportorial bias, but, well, here you go. A lot of the sports reporting press corps is inclined to believe the worst about Duke no matter the evidence.

I realize some think that isn't a problem and that its better to be hated then ignored. Or that the positive press we get more than overcomes the negative. I get that. But I think this is becoming a greater and greater problem.

And one last thing. This is not about Duke basketball, or Coach K. This is about Duke as and institution and Duke as a community. Lord knows, all of us who care about that know that Duke isn't perfect. But it sure is a helluva lot better then the fools in the press who bought a lie about us because that's what they wanted to believe.

[FerryFor50]

"Paul is dead"

Or so they say.

-jk

Exactly. Stones in glass houses at best. Complete fabrication at worst. (Or the other way around if you prefer)

[duke96]

I haven't seen this said yet and so perhaps i am missing something, but it seems particularly absurd to me to suggest that the crazies - even at their "worst", which I'm convinced they no longer are - would go out of their way to research and mercilessly pick on some random kid who scores 3 points per game. All due respect to his family situation but ... really? In addition to the fact that we can't find any credible source that says it really did happen, it just seems to me to be so far fetched as to be silly.

[Newton_14]

I haven't seen this said yet and so perhaps i am missing something, but it seems particularly absurd to me to suggest that the crazies - even at their "worst", which I'm convinced they no longer are - would go out of their way to research and mercilessly pick on some random kid who scores 3 points per game. All due respect to his family situation but ... really? In addition to the fact that we can't find any credible source that says it really did happen, it just seems to me to be so far fetched as to be silly.

In addition to that, there were multiple State fans in just about every section of CIS last night (which was disgusting but that is another soapbox), and the normal contingent of State fans behind their bench. If that was being chanted, wouldn't some, if not all of the State fans behind their bench have risen up in disgust and started protesting right then and there? They would have been visibly upset and likely very demonstrative in protest, no? Yet not a one did. Most of them were laughing, as were some of the State players.

Yet not one soul clad in Red went banana's and demanded action by the Duke Officials. Not a single one. They were there, in the building, not listening to some stupid U-Tube video, and they saw Native's white board just like the rest of us in the building did. Yet none of them said or did anything? What does that say about them were this allegation anywhere close to the realm of truth?

[Durham Thunder]

This has spread like wildfire in the past 5 hours. PAST YOUR BEDTIME; Duke needs to release a statement right now addressing this!

[davekay1971]

http://extramustard.si.com/2013/02/08/did-the-cameron-crazies-go-too-far/?sct=hp_t2_a8&eref=sihp

It doesn't matter at all what statements Duke, responsible reporters, or anyone else makes. This has now become part of the ever-growing national database of "facts" that are actually fiction. Any attempt by someone to state that this did not happen will be dismissed as homerism, being an apologist, or covering up. It is now part of the litany of K's supposed offenses proving that he's a big jerk, and nothing he says or does at this point will change that. We live in a society where truth is defined by who speaks the loudest and is saying what is most interesting, where something is truth if it's gone viral, and where the majority of people are too lazy and too distracted to make an effort to figure out the truth.

Look at the "story" linked above. There's not a shred of journalism in that presentation. There's the tease to get you to click the link, and 2 tweets from people stating that the offensive chant happened. That's it. No false statement or accusation from the cnnsi.com writer...just the very strong suggestion that the Dukies did something really really bad. But, hey, it's on cnnsi.com, and that's a big name, so it's true...right?

[David]

http://extramustard.si.com/2013/02/08/did-the-cameron-crazies-go-too-far/?sct=hp_t2_a8&eref=sihp

It doesn't matter at all what statements Duke, responsible reporters, or anyone else makes. This has now become part of the ever-growing national database of "facts" that are actually fiction. Any attempt by someone to state that this did not happen will be dismissed as homerism, being an apologist, or covering up. It is now part of the litany of K's supposed offenses proving that he's a big jerk, and nothing he says or does at this point will change that. We live in a society where truth is defined by who speaks the loudest and is saying what is most interesting, where something is truth if it's gone viral, and where the majority of people are too lazy and too distracted to make an effort to figure out the truth.

Look at the "story" linked above. There's not a shred of journalism in that presentation. There's the tease to get you to click the link, and 2 tweets from people stating that the offensive chant happened. That's it. No false statement or accusation from the cnnsi.com writer...just the very strong suggestion that the Dukies did something really really bad. But, hey, it's on cnnsi.com, and that's a big name, so it's true...right?

Agreed. This story is a total joke, but people will believe what they want to believe when it comes to Duke regardless of the facts. This situation reminds me of the quote from former US Sec of Labor Ray Donovan, "Which office do I go to get my reputation back?"

[Olympic Fan]

I agree that we've passed the point where ther actual facts matter.

Not long ago, I had to listen to a Georgetown fan tell me how the racist Cameron Crazies taunted Patrick Ewing with gorrilla arms and chants that played on his supposed stupiity. It doesn't matter that Patrick Ewing never played in Cameron (Georgetown's first visit to Cameron in history didn't come until 2003) -- the story is a part of the anti-Duke mythology, along with the time the Cameron crowd booed Jeff Capel (something else that never happened).

I fear we'll now have to live with this one-- 20 years from now, our kids will read about the time the Cameron Crazies chanted "how's your grandma" at poor Tyler Lewis.

[Furniture]

I close my eyes and listen to the YouTube video and clearly hear "past your bedtime"!

[ChillinDuke]

Let me help you out.

IT

DID

NOT

HAPPEN

I was there. I'm not relying on a youtube video, a tweet or an internet fantasy. The Duke students chanted "Past Your Bedtime" at Lewis, loudly and repeatedly. It was quite clear. Quite obvious. I cannnot state with absolute certainty that there wasn't one cretin in the stands who referenced his grandmother, although I find it unlikely. But I can state with absolute, 100 percent certainty that there was no "How's Your Grandmother" chant last night.

All the proof I needed right there.

And furthermore, I don't even care. Worse things are said and done at every sporting event on the planet. I studied abroad in Italy and watched cops fire tear gas as fans of an opposing soccer team ran across a 50 foot space of intentionally unoccupied seats and started scaling a fence just to get to the home teams fans' section and berate them (and then some). Heck, I was assaulted and thrown to the ground by a random UNC fan in the parking lot at our 2nd round NCAAT game in Greensboro vs. Texas just because I was wearing a Duke shirt.

This is dumb.

- Chillin

[Steven43]

I guess I'm old school (class of 83) and I'll get killed for this, but the "haters" see K-Ville, official chant sheets (I've never heard of such a thing in any other program), crowd surfing Vitale, mean spirited ("not our rivals"), and somewhat precious, holier than thou sensibilities from our "crazies." I talk hoops a lot and keep hearing "your student body is an embarrasment". Why are there no Michigan State haters (except for Michigan)? They are excellent year in and year out. Even Carolina has no haters outside of the triangle. The only national programs that have universal haters are Notre Dame and the Cowboys - maybe the Lakers and Celtics. Don't want to be lumped in with that crew. I'd like to be wrong, but I recall K saying he would prefer if the fans chanted for our own team and not against the other team, when my classmates kept jangling car keys at an opponent accused of stealing a car. No wonder everyone is eager to believe it was a grandma cheat. It fits the image we've built for ourselves.

Just trying to keep the conversation lively, as Bill Hurt said in some movie.

Pile on.....

People dislike Duke for a variety of reasons. Jealousy of Duke's basketball success is the most obvious reason. The perception of the Crazies as being smug, as well as mean, is another. The reputation of the student body being full of arrogant, privileged, wealthy frat/sorority kids is another. While all of these things likely contribute to the Duke disdain, I think the most prevalent reason is the fact that over the last 30 years Duke has featured more prominent white basketball players than any other consistently-highly-ranked school. There isn't even a close second. For some reason, this 'whiteness' seems to really bother people. I have no doubt that a lot of fans look skeptically at Duke and wonder how and why they are consistently able to get these players; as if it's some sort of organized conspiracy or something. It's really really strange.

[throatybeard]

I agree that we've passed the point where ther actual facts matter.

Not long ago, I had to listen to a Georgetown fan tell me how the racist Cameron Crazies taunted Patrick Ewing with gorrilla arms and chants that played on his supposed stupiity. It doesn't matter that Patrick Ewing never played in Cameron (Georgetown's first visit to Cameron in history didn't come until 2003) -- the story is a part of the anti-Duke mythology, along with the time the Cameron crowd booed Jeff Capel (something else that never happened).

I fear we'll now have to live with this one-- 20 years from now, our kids will read about the time the Cameron Crazies chanted "how's your grandma" at poor Tyler Lewis.

Yes. Actually, in this whole society, facts don't matter, OF. That's where our media is.

We're at the point that where anything bad happens in college fandom, it will be attributed to the Cameron Crazies. Steve Kerr...

The funny thing about this is that this crowd ceased being offensive on the regular about a quarter century ago. The very crowd that has been so censored and self-censored is the one accused of every stupid alleged thing that doesn't even happen. K has been quashing stuff like responses to Loren Woods mental health sitch for years.

[oldnavy]

I posted on the other thread that it is very telling of where we are as a society when a unsubstantiated rumor is perpetuated by some in the media as fact despite clear and overwhelming evidence that is false, while at the same time a full blown athletic / academic cheating scandal involving our tax dollars at a state school is barely mentioned.... think about that for a minute or two.

[HS Dukie]

the story is a part of the anti-Duke mythology, along with the time the Cameron crowd booed Jeff Capel (something else that never happened).



Actually , Jeff Capel was booed at Cameron. I think it was during his senior season when he was struggling a bit. I was at that game (v. Clemson or FSU maybe???), couldn't believe it then, and still can't believe it.

Your point is still valid though. (and I clearly heard "past your bedtime" from the upper bowl across from the student section).

[Furniture]

In the same game when Wood went down the crowd were very respectful. They went very quiet and clapped when he got up. I thought that was incredibly nice.....

[Matches]

The hypocrisy of the outrage is beyond measure. Where were all these folks (ESPN, Yahoo, Fox Sports, SI, all of them) when the Terp student body wore the Duck Fuke shirts, took off after after JJ and his entire family, conked Boozer's mom, chanted "let him die" after Nolan's concussion, and on and on. Hey, not on an anti-Terp rant here. Just that they are always good for illustration.

Other fans? VT? There's a bunch of angels. WVU? Sweet hearts. Everyone on this board can come with their own list of flagrant offenders. Heck, all you have to do is turn on any broadcast game, and then clear the kids out of the room.



The 24-hour news cycle feeds on outrage, and as such encourages and stokes it at every opportunity. Outrage = hits. Hits = $. If there's nothing controversial going on today, well, let's come up with something. Will Lebron sign with the Lakers in 2014? Discuss. Has anyone seen Brett Favre today? Maryland? Va Tech? No one cares about them.

I'm not sure what's worse - the media's transparent attempts to manipulate people into being outraged, or people's willingness to be manipulated. I've seen a number of smart friends of mine in the last few days say "This is why I hate Duke." Completely disingenuous - "you" hate Duke because you went to UNC and Duke and UNC are rivals. But this is an excuse to get one's back up and act indignant, so here we are. Doesn't matter if it actually happened, because it could have happened, and that's just as bad. Or something.

I bet K has been planning this whole thing since he faked his back injury.

[moonpie23]

I downloaded the youtube clip and loaded it into my Pro Tools HD. There's one section of "the chant" that is clear, without announcer intrusion. My State-Fan assistant (an excellent young engineer with great ears) and i applied a variety of surveillance filters, limiters, pitch correction, and variable speed playbacks.


After about an hour of The answer was stunningly clear.

Me: "past your bed time!"

Assistant: "you're crazy, it's "how's your grandma!"


you may think i'm just being funny, but this really is the answer......

[CLW]

The media will run with a story like this because it will get a ton of clicks from the haters. That is now the media world we live in "facts" are not important its all about "scoops" and driving "traffic" to make a quick buck. One need only look at the Teo's "dead" girlfriend story to see how serious "journalism" is today.

Did a few idiots yell something about "grandma"? Who knows but from watching the game on t.v. and now re-watching the clip on youtube all I heard and hear is "past your bedtime" which I thought was hilarious while I was watching the game live on ESPN3.

The "good" news I suppose about today's 24 hour news cycle is this will LONG be forgotten by the start of the tourny and only the biggest haters will EVER remember the alleged "grandma" chant.

[Atldukie79]

We may shake our heads at how the irrational response to this non incident jumped the tracks. But in some ways it is no mystery at all.

People have always struggled with jealousy. When someone else has (or seems to have) something they don't, people all too often become jealous of that person. Duke to some is "success, wealth, snarky, holier than thou....". Rather than express admiration or appreciation, the jealousy emotion requires people to close the gap in some way. They want to close the perceived gap between their circumstance and that of the target of their jealousy...in this case, all things Duke.

From my profession managing and consulting with business to business sales teams, I have come to appreciate how people buy things. All too often, the buyer makes an emotional decision, and researches alternatives only to justify their position. It is less common for the buyer to research alternatives and let the facts speak for themselves.

Likewise, in this case, people want to hear "Grandma" not "bedtime". You hear what you want.

Further, it tooks centuries for society to try to grapple with the power of the press and the evolution over time which brought us branded news organizations. Even though they typically have biases too, we get to know them and factor that into our reactions. We have only had a few years to adapt to the new twitter-sphere world. Clearly people confuse the typed message with authority and accuracy. The truly sad part is to watch the "established" media react so poorly at times and report the tweets to keep up.

[devildeac]

Mondegreen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondegreen

"The girl with colitis goes by."

"There's a bathroom on the right."

" 'Scuse me while I kiss this guy."

Excellent. The Crazies can now be "compared" to The Beatles, CCR and Hendrix ;) .

[roywhite]

Always loved that song by the Buckinghams where they sing about their favorite soft drink:

It's Canada Dry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq1fpN1qWv8)

[oldnavy]

Certin people want to be offended. I am convinced of it. I don't understand it, but it seems apparent these days.

That is why I got such a kick out of Jay Bilas' exchange with Dan Lebatard about some ridiculous notion that Lebatard was putting forth regarding Tyler Hansbrough a few years back. Basically, Jay was trying to be kind by saying "no offense..." and telling Dan that his argument was baseless.

Link to audio: http://awfulannouncing.blogspot.com/2008/04/radio-fight-le-batard-vs-bilas.html About the 2:50 mark.

Dan replied that Jay couldn't say "no offense" and then state that his comments were stupid, to which Jay replied, "well take offense then.."

I loved it, and gained even more respect for Bilas after that...

Let people "take offense". Offending someone is not alway wrong. Sometimes, people are offended by the truth.

In this case, they are offended by something that they have created in their minds, so to them I say, "be offended, be very offended!"

[DukieInKansas]

If it really happened, wouldn't Daniel Ewing have gotten a technical?

[arnie]

Certin people want to be offended. I am convinced of it. I don't understand it, but it seems apparent these days.

That is why I got such a kick out of Jay Bilas' exchange with Dan Lebatard about some ridiculous notion that Lebatard was putting forth regarding Tyler Hansbrough a few years back. Basically, Jay was trying to be kind by saying "no offense..." and telling Dan that his argument was baseless.

Link to audio: http://awfulannouncing.blogspot.com/2008/04/radio-fight-le-batard-vs-bilas.html About the 2:50 mark.

Dan replied that Jay couldn't say "no offense" and then state that his comments were stupid, to which Jay replied, "well take offense then.."

I loved it, and gained even more respect for Bilas after that...

Let people "take offense". Offending someone is not alway wrong. Sometimes, people are offended by the truth.

In this case, they are offended by something that they have created in their minds, so to them I say, "be offended, be very offended!"



I've now heard enough garbage spewed on this subject locally. I sent the email below to WDNC this morning - no further explanation needed.

"Listened to 620 this morning as I do many Saturday mornings. The commentator discussing home improvement tips (using car wax for many applications) chose to quickly segue from his subject to the atrocity that occurred during the Duke-NCSt basketball game. He asked the young lady about the chant and she told him that the chant was “past your bedtime”. The car wax commentator told her she was wrong and that media members heard the derogatory comment regarding Tyler Lewis’s grandmother. Obviously the young lady was not happy.

The commentator was absolutely wrong (no media members heard a grandmother chant) and appeared to have an anti-Duke agenda or he is simply ignorant. Anyway, this show has lost a regular listener. When a journalist speaks on a subject that he knows nothing about, then I tend to discredit him/her.

Although I’ve found the discussions interesting in the past, I will no longer listen to this channel. You have lost a listener."

[oldnavy]

I've now heard enough garbage spewed on this subject locally. I sent the email below to WDNC this morning - no further explanation needed.

"Listened to 620 this morning as I do many Saturday mornings. The commentator discussing home improvement tips (using car wax for many applications) chose to quickly segue from his subject to the atrocity that occurred during the Duke-NCSt basketball game. He asked the young lady about the chant and she told him that the chant was “past your bedtime”. The car wax commentator told her she was wrong and that media members heard the derogatory comment regarding Tyler Lewis’s grandmother. Obviously the young lady was not happy.

The commentator was absolutely wrong (no media members heard a grandmother chant) and appeared to have an anti-Duke agenda or he is simply ignorant. Anyway, this show has lost a regular listener. When a journalist speaks on a subject that he knows nothing about, then I tend to discredit him/her.

Although I’ve found the discussions interesting in the past, I will no longer listen to this channel. You have lost a listener."

Good for you. It is all that you can do, but it does send a message. Bravo!

[kmspeaks]

Apparently all of us were wrong. This guy on the comments section of an ESPN article about the game has it deciphered. ;)


the_greyhound
Having listened to the chant numerous times, I can safely say they are chanting "wear a tan shawl". They chanted this b/c it was cold outside and they were concerned for his health.

[Olympic Fan]

Actually , Jeff Capel was booed at Cameron. I think it was during his senior season when he was struggling a bit. I was at that game (v. Clemson or FSU maybe???), couldn't believe it then, and still can't believe it.

Your point is still valid though. (and I clearly heard "past your bedtime" from the upper bowl across from the student section).



You were at the game when Capel was booed, but you don't remember which game? Great witness.

I can't wait for 15 years from now when you remember the Duke crowd taunting some player (was it a State player or a Wake player?) for losing his grandmother.

Look, the game at which Capel was supposedly booed was Dec. 5, 1997 -- an overtime victory over Florida State. One of the reasons it was close was that Capel was having a terrible day. He started, played 22 minutes and was 0-for-9 from the floor.

He sat a long stretch in the second half, but with about three minutes left K pointed to Capel and he got off the bench and headed to the scorer's table. There was a crowd reaction -- not boos, but kind of a collective "Oh no!" which was IMMEDIATELY followed by a loud and positive reaction for Capel from the Crazies. That's when the myth that Capel was booed was born -- just as people hear "Past your bedtime" as "How's your grandma" ... there were those whio heard that Oh No reaction as booes. I know that Jason Capel, when he was at Carolina, complained about his brother being booed at Duke (which I thought was ironic since Capel and his UNC team was loudly and consustently booed by the Smith Center crowd during his time at UNC-- not only during that nightmare 2002 season, but in 2000 too, especially in a home loss to UCLA in hch the booing was sustained and ongoing throughout the game).

But I was there too and I'll stack my memory up with yours. I actually remember when it supposedly happened. There was a negative reaction from a small portion of the Cameron crowd. But Jeff Capel was not booed and the bulk of the Crazies responded instantly to the negativity with support for him.

[oldnavy]

You were at the game when Capel was booed, but you don't remember which game? Great witness.

I can't wait for 15 years from now when you remember the Duke crowd taunting some player (was it a State player or a Wake player?) for losing his grandmother.

Look, the game at which Capel was supposedly booed was Dec. 5, 1997 -- an overtime victory over Florida State. One of the reasons it was close was that Capel was having a terrible day. He started, played 22 minutes and was 0-for-9 from the floor.

He sat a long stretch in the second half, but with about three minutes left K pointed to Capel and he got off the bench and headed to the scorer's table. There was a crowd reaction -- not boos, but kind of a collective "Oh no!" which was IMMEDIATELY followed by a loud and positive reaction for Capel from the Crazies. That's when the myth that Capel was booed was born -- just as people hear "Past your bedtime" as "How's your grandma" ... there were those whio heard that Oh No reaction as booes. I know that Jason Capel, when he was at Carolina, complained about his brother being booed at Duke (which I thought was ironic since Capel and his UNC team was loudly and consustently booed by the Smith Center crowd during his time at UNC-- not only during that nightmare 2002 season, but in 2000 too, especially in a home loss to UCLA in hch the booing was sustained and ongoing throughout the game).

But I was there too and I'll stack my memory up with yours. I actually remember when it supposedly happened. There was a negative reaction from a small portion of the Cameron crowd. But Jeff Capel was not booed and the bulk of the Crazies responded instantly to the negativity with support for him.

I wish my memory was as good as yours! I'm having a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast this morning!! Yikes! - wait, Pop Tarts, that's what I always have!..

Anyway, I have been at numerous sporting events where the home crowd booed the home team or player, but never at Cameron. Just last year I was at the Ravens/Cardinals game and the crowd was loudly booing the Ravens at the end of the first half (down 20+ points). Ravens came back and won at the end of regulation, yea!!

I went to just about every game from the early seventies until I joined the Navy in 1989. I never heard or remember hearing the crowd boo Duke. And, trust me some of our teams in the early seventies would have been the teams to boo if it were ever going to happen. Not that they were bad guys, just not as talented as most of the opponents!

[dubldvman]

To add to what has already been posted, I attended the game and, as always, the student chants were orchestrated by the designated leaders with most of them "announced" on the white board. Unlike previous years the scoreboard monitor now shows what is on the white board so many of our old timers above the rails (I'm getting to be one of them!) can read what the students are chanting. The chant of "past your bedtime" was written on the white board, everyone thought it was funny when they chanted it as Lewis shot free throws, and that was it. If a student or few students yelled something about his grandma it was not a good decision on their part but it certainly was not audible to many and, frankly, would not be the worse thing ever uttered in venues across the ACC.

We all know what this is about. It is about hate. It is about some folks trying to take something as far as they can to discredit an entire group, school, program, and culture. I live in Durham and, as an example, the widespread disappointment and sadness was palpable several years ago when folks throughout the Triangle had to face the fact that our lacrosse players did not sexually assault Crystal Mangum. Pathetic in that the only way for them to have not been disappointed was for someone to actually have been assaulted. This grandma thing for most people is coming from the same place and, quite frankly, the continued discussion about Lewis' deceased grandmother is just as disrespectful as a student or two who MAY have yelled something inappropriate.

Duke fans are used to it. All we can do is express our condolences to Tyler Lewis on the loss of his family member, congratulate him on playing well in Cameron, and get to our NEXT PLAY. The media will find another focus next week, and the haters will add it to their hate chest along with Coach K's fake back/hip, Laettner's stomp, Gerald's intentional Hansbrough swat, etc.

[davekay1971]

Mondegreen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondegreen

"The girl with colitis goes by."

"There's a bathroom on the right."

" 'Scuse me while I kiss this guy."

Excellent. The Crazies can now be "compared" to The Beatles, CCR and Hendrix ;) .

Or, in the words of Lord Admiran Nelson at Trafalgar:

"Kismet, Hardy."

or was it, "Kiss me, Hardy."

[throatybeard]

Remember when the whole off-topic board booed Jason Evans? It was either during the 2006 World Cup or that one Grammys with Amy Winehouse. I'll never forget that.

[DU82]

You were at the game when Capel was booed, but you don't remember which game? Great witness.

I can't wait for 15 years from now when you remember the Duke crowd taunting some player (was it a State player or a Wake player?) for losing his grandmother.

Look, the game at which Capel was supposedly booed was Dec. 5, 1997 -- an overtime victory over Florida State. One of the reasons it was close was that Capel was having a terrible day. He started, played 22 minutes and was 0-for-9 from the floor.

He sat a long stretch in the second half, but with about three minutes left K pointed to Capel and he got off the bench and headed to the scorer's table. There was a crowd reaction -- not boos, but kind of a collective "Oh no!" which was IMMEDIATELY followed by a loud and positive reaction for Capel from the Crazies. That's when the myth that Capel was booed was born -- just as people hear "Past your bedtime" as "How's your grandma" ... there were those whio heard that Oh No reaction as booes. I know that Jason Capel, when he was at Carolina, complained about his brother being booed at Duke (which I thought was ironic since Capel and his UNC team was loudly and consustently booed by the Smith Center crowd during his time at UNC-- not only during that nightmare 2002 season, but in 2000 too, especially in a home loss to UCLA in hch the booing was sustained and ongoing throughout the game).

But I was there too and I'll stack my memory up with yours. I actually remember when it supposedly happened. There was a negative reaction from a small portion of the Cameron crowd. But Jeff Capel was not booed and the bulk of the Crazies responded instantly to the negativity with support for him.

OF's memory matches mine exactly. The immediate reaction from much of the crowd was surprise thar Capel was coming back in, followed by cheering support. Except, it was Dec. 5, 1996, the beginning of the 96-97 season.

[Indoor66]

Remember when the whole off-topic board booed Jason Evans? It was either during the 2006 World Cup or that one Grammys with Amy Winehouse. I'll never forget that.

I thought that happened on most days.... :cool:

[Monmouth77]

You were at the game when Capel was booed, but you don't remember which game? Great witness.

I can't wait for 15 years from now when you remember the Duke crowd taunting some player (was it a State player or a Wake player?) for losing his grandmother.

Look, the game at which Capel was supposedly booed was Dec. 5, 1997 -- an overtime victory over Florida State. One of the reasons it was close was that Capel was having a terrible day. He started, played 22 minutes and was 0-for-9 from the floor.

He sat a long stretch in the second half, but with about three minutes left K pointed to Capel and he got off the bench and headed to the scorer's table. There was a crowd reaction -- not boos, but kind of a collective "Oh no!" which was IMMEDIATELY followed by a loud and positive reaction for Capel from the Crazies. That's when the myth that Capel was booed was born -- just as people hear "Past your bedtime" as "How's your grandma" ... there were those whio heard that Oh No reaction as booes. I know that Jason Capel, when he was at Carolina, complained about his brother being booed at Duke (which I thought was ironic since Capel and his UNC team was loudly and consustently booed by the Smith Center crowd during his time at UNC-- not only during that nightmare 2002 season, but in 2000 too, especially in a home loss to UCLA in hch the booing was sustained and ongoing throughout the game).

But I was there too and I'll stack my memory up with yours. I actually remember when it supposedly happened. There was a negative reaction from a small portion of the Cameron crowd. But Jeff Capel was not booed and the bulk of the Crazies responded instantly to the negativity with support for him.

I think you mean December 5, 1996, which was Capel's senior year (and my sophomore year). I was there too. And I won't say it was a boo, but there was some negative crowd noise from some Crazies who apparently felt Jeff was not playing well. Louder (and more) Crazies responded with cheers to drown out the negative noise. That's what I remember. And I remember being mad that I was hearing negative crowd noise directed at Jeff. But it wasn't just the 0-9. Jeff was having a slow start to the season. And you have to remember the context-- that season ended up being the one that righted the ship. But the previous 2 seasons Duke went 13-18 and 18-13. People were hungry for a return to early 90s Duke basketball, and Jeff had been a fixture during the bad times. It wasn't his fault, but he took some flack that day.

Would be interested to see what the Chronicle reported at the time-- I do remember it being a big deal.

To the larger point, people convince themselves of "memories" that aren't. That for sure. And haters will believe whatever confirms their bias.

[TruBlu]

Too bad that "Rabbit Ears" Karl Hess wasn't officiating the game. He could end the debate in a hurry.

[JasonEvans]

Remember when the whole off-topic board booed Jason Evans? It was either during the 2006 World Cup or that one Grammys with Amy Winehouse. I'll never forget that.

It was the anniversary of the day my grandmother's next-door-neighbor's nephew's dog died. I was scarred and will never recover.

-JE

[DBFAN]

I have been angry about this whole thing since it came out. Mainly because nobody gives a rats behind at all of the vile things that have been chanted at Duke for the last 20 yrs. but if Duke does something, which I don't think they did, then it's time to bring out the noose. Here is what one of my Carolina fans had to say in response to one of the vids claiming we said something about his grandmother

I know I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this., Cheered for Carolina there,only Clemson is close to being as bad as Vitales Jersey Hoodlems"

[DBFAN]

There is something strange going on I keep posting and it keeps inserting parts of other people's stuff in the middle of what I write

[Bob Green]

There is something strange going on I keep posting and it keeps inserting parts of other people's stuff in the middle of what I write

No, you are using words that are not authorized on DBR so the filter is inserting, "I'm a real wanker for saying this."

[DBFAN]

I guess it's because of the way the person spelled Duke in the quote I was trying to create

Here is what he said
I know Duke cheered for Carolina there, Only Clemson is close to being as bad as Vitales jersey hoodlems are

[weezie]

No, it's the auto, "I'm a" auto block on any questionable language that might offend whomever. Your original intent carries through.
Who would "they" pick on if it wasn't Duke?

[DBFAN]

That is too funny that it does that...bravo

[DBFAN]

Yeah I finally figured out what was going on...lol

[weezie]

It even carries over on PMs so be prepared. No sexy messages!

[DBFAN]

I'll try to restrain myself..lol

[UrinalCake]

Somehow this video seems oddly relevant


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLd22ha_-VU

[moonpie23]

there is a new filter.......you cannot spell DUKE the way those baby blue folks do....

nor can you spell TARHEEL the way that i like to...

[DBFAN]

I hear ya.. But can we pull off the occasional Care o wine a.

Short A of course!

[DBFAN]

It appears that we can

[summerwind03]

OF's memory matches mine exactly. The immediate reaction from much of the crowd was surprise thar Capel was coming back in, followed by cheering support. Except, it was Dec. 5, 1996, the beginning of the 96-97 season.

As always, I agree with DU82. Both in terms of the Jeff Capel game (I just heard more of a surprised "oh" and then cheering) and in terms of last night's game (definitely only "Past Your Bedtime").

[Furniture]

I think this thread should be closed so it can disappear into cyberspace along with the false allegation!

[throatybeard]

I think this thread should be closed so it can disappear into cyberspace along with the false allegation!

I think it's important for it to stay live so that sources as reliable as Jim Sumner can refute the false allegation.

[moonpie23]

unfortunately, there is no "refuting" on the internet....

:(

[blazindw]

I also wanted to point out that the comment on the Chronicle blog that was allegedly written by a Duke student named "Joseph Henry" who said he heard the "grandma" chant reeks of B.S. This person said he was in "Section 19, Row 3"...the chant in question here came from section 18, behind the baseline where the band is.

If folks who were actually in section 18 didn't hear it, there's no way this guy could have. I think this is someone who wants to make us look bad and screwed up when he wrote down the wrong section. Funny how it's being cited by all these blogs as "proof" when it's obviously suspect.

Also, no student would ever say they were sitting in "Section ___, Row ___". They tell you what part of the student section they were sitting in (TV side, grad side, grad side by the band). Now, Section 19 is the non-TV side, but as that dude knows, row 3 runs the entire length of the court. Also, behind both benches those are player/team tickets. So, if he heard anything, he was either a State fan or he was on the other side of the court from where it allegedly took place.

[dyedwab]

I think this thread should be closed so it can disappear into cyberspace along with the false allegation!

Not to pick on you, but while your point is true, it's also irrelevant.

Ignoring a a false attack has been the general strategy of Duke and the basketball program for years. I believe that this is a bad strategy. The negative perception of Duke has taken on a life of its own and requires a strategy of dealing with it, not ignoring it.

I would submit that the first thing I'd do push back hard on news outlets whose reporters/commentators help make this false charge true.
We need to, using an imperfect analogy, start "working the refs"

[Andre Buckner Fan]

I remember I took a guest to a game in 2000, and the Crazies were chanting "Who's your Daddy? Battier!"

And the guest was horrified. She assumed that we were taunting him about his parentage. Much explanation was needed. Sigh...

[uh_no]

I remember I took a guest to a game in 2000, and the Crazies were chanting "Who's your Daddy? Battier!"

And the guest was horrified. She assumed that we were taunting him about his parentage. Much explanation was needed. Sigh...

there was also the instance 3 or so years ago when the band did their beavis and butthead act where some bozo wrote a letter to the chronicle saying they were imitating gorillas to demean the black opponent on the free throw line....

no good chant goes completely understood.....