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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 98, NCSU 85 Post-Game Thread



pfrduke
02-07-2013, 10:07 PM
Revenge!

snowdenscold
02-07-2013, 10:09 PM
Nice of us to forego that open layup at the buzzer to make it an even 100, haha.

Furniture
02-07-2013, 10:10 PM
Good job boys!

cptnflash
02-07-2013, 10:10 PM
Solid win. Quite likely that there will be a rubber match in the semi-finals of the ACC tournament. Hopefully both teams are at full strength by then. Way to go guys!

El_Diablo
02-07-2013, 10:11 PM
Just to try to head off the lazy "stall ball" meme in advance...we DID NOT play "stall ball" until the last few minutes. We simply missed shots and played poor defense throughout the half.

CLW
02-07-2013, 10:12 PM
tale of 2 halfs really. not sure if the team lost its edge/focus; ran out of gas or just a regression to the mean but we survived the bad defense in the 2nd half to pick up the W.

mason was HUGE all night especially in the 2nd half when the 3s stopped falling.

UrinalCake
02-07-2013, 10:12 PM
Let's just call the second half a "regression to the mean." Guys hung tough and got the win. State was impressive though, and will be a tough out if we see them again.

As I said in the in-game thread, we really missed Kelly inside because Howell stepped out and had wide-open jumpers all night long. Mason's gotta start guarding him out there.

FerryFor50
02-07-2013, 10:13 PM
This game was Duke's season in a bottle. Duke at its best without Kelly and then Duke at its worst without Kelly. They let the foot off the gas too early and let NCSU shoot nearly 80% in the 2nd half. Awful.

The open looks that went down in the first half rimmed out in the 2nd. Such a sharp contrast...

Some of it was stall ball, some was poor defense, some was from long rebounds leading to transition pints for State. But guess what?

A win's a win.

Cameron
02-07-2013, 10:14 PM
And yet we won

I am so tired of this argument. Barely scraping by is not something to celebrate. I'd like to think that the talent we have on this team far exceeds having to play hot potato with each other for the final 15 minutes in order to secure a victory over an average N.C. State team, which has now lost five of its last seven games. This is the exact type of play that will usher you to the nearest exit in the NCAA Tournament.

Why exactly we felt that going the Northern Illinois route in the second half was the way to seal the deal tonight is beyond me.

FerryFor50
02-07-2013, 10:14 PM
Just to try to head off the lazy "stall ball" meme in advance...we DID NOT play "stall ball" until the last few minutes. We simply missed shots and played poor defense throughout the half.

Agreed. A lot of wide open misses and terrible defense. Stall ball kicked in around the 7min mark as far as I could tell.

Pam
02-07-2013, 10:14 PM
I kind of disagree with the posters in the other thread that Duke played for the last 20 minutes not to lose. What I saw was that every time Duke had a shot, even a Curry 3 pointer, State was there with a foul. Two of their players fouled out. My take, and I am not an expert - just a LONG TIME basketball fan - is that State's defense of fouling anyone shooting the ball led to the less than par shooting performance from Duke in the 2nd half and I am grateful that most of the Duke players can shoot free throws. JMHO.

sporthenry
02-07-2013, 10:16 PM
Just to try to head off the lazy "stall ball" meme in advance...we DID NOT play "stall ball" until the last few minutes. We simply missed shots and played poor defense throughout the half.

Agreed. This was more about giving up 48 points in a half. Heck, even more impressive if we did play stall ball as some alleged. I've learned to live with the offense and we actually got in more trouble with the quick shots when they stopped falling. Our team should be good enough to run a set and get good shots in the last 10-15 seconds of a shot clock.

Cameron
02-07-2013, 10:17 PM
Agreed. A lot of wide open misses and terrible defense. Stall ball kicked in around the 7min mark as far as I could tell.

While it probably wasn't truly initiated as early as I stated above, it sure felt like it. We were definitely deliberately taking the air out of the ball and dribbling/passing around out top for the first 20 seconds of the shot clock from the 10-minute mark on of the second half, though.

mapei
02-07-2013, 10:17 PM
I agree with the devil. I think we looked fatigued. We took a lot of the same shots in the second half, but not as crisply. And it would be unreasonable to expect an out-of-world performance in the first half to continue. That said, our defense was horrible, and so was our - hate this phrase - "ball security." The second half just wasn't very good basketball by eiither team, really; I don't think our downturn had much to do with "stall ball" or "playing not to lose." It did have something to do with lots of missed shots that went in earlier.

Luther
02-07-2013, 10:18 PM
Good win tonight. Mason is a beast Murphy's dunk was nasty!

CDu
02-07-2013, 10:19 PM
State shot out of this world in the second half. Howell must have hit 5 15+ foot jumpers. Wood didn't miss much if at all, either. That said, we definitely didn't have the same defensive intensity in the second half, either.

Thankfully, we hit enough 3s early and Mason was just a beast throughout.

Curry had a phenomenal first half, but I think he ran out of gas a bit in the second. Still, 26 is not a bad night, especially on only 15 shots.

Murphy did a solid job backing up Jefferson. For much of that time, we were fortunate that State was playing small (with Warren at the PF spot). But Murphy's first assignment was against Leslie, and he did an adequate job.

The PF spot is still a question mark for us, as none of Jefferson, Murphy, and Hairston have really made a definitive statement with any consistency. But we've seen glimpses (even long glances in the case of Jefferson) of usefulness. Hopefully that carries over when Kelly returns.

Regardless, though it was a sloppy second half, we won by 13, and State never got it to within a 2-possession game after the opening minutes. That's the way to get it done.

sporthenry
02-07-2013, 10:20 PM
While it probably wasn't truly initiated as early as I stated above, it sure felt like it. We were definitely deliberately taking the air out of the ball and dribbling/passing around out top for the first 20 seconds of the shot clock from the 10-minute mark on of the second half, though.

So we are missing shots, NC State is on fire, our guards are in foul trouble and we have no answer for Howell, so your answer is to try to outscore them? Yes, it was disappointing and I'm sure K won't be happy with the defensive performance but anytime you score 40 points in a half, that is not stall ball or playing not to lose. The Big Ten has games where the winner is a few points above 40 for the game.

Besides, you play to win the game. Be it pretty or ugly. I don't hear Wisconsin fans complain about how they win. You look at your assets, the other team's assets and do whatever is best to win. Not try to play what other people want.

FerryFor50
02-07-2013, 10:20 PM
Another positive - duke wins the rebound battle!

FerryFor50
02-07-2013, 10:21 PM
And another positive - we get woeful BC on Saturday!

dukelifer
02-07-2013, 10:23 PM
I am so tired of this argument. Barely scraping by is not something to celebrate. I'd like to think that the talent we have on this team far exceeds having to play hot potato with each other for the final 15 minutes in order to secure a victory over an average N.C. State team, which has now lost five of its last seven games. This is the exact type of play that will usher you to the nearest exit in the NCAA Tournament.

Why exactly we felt that going the Northern Illinois route in the second half was the way to seal the deal tonight is beyond me.

But why do you think the team will be satisfied with the second half effort. They played a great first half- almost flawless. They need to stay aggressive and do a better job on D but we have seen improvement. Still not there but a big improvement since the first State game

davekay1971
02-07-2013, 10:25 PM
I'm going to go the other route about the second half and note that Duke held off NC State's best offensive half of the season. State just shot really, really well in the 2nd half. Those weren't a bunch of uncontested layups (though they did have some run-outs for easy layups)...State made contested shots. As one poster noted, Howell was draining drop-back 15 footers that are not normally a reliable shot for him. Sometimes, despite our guys actually playing defense, the other team gets hot. It happens, and it happened tonight. Our guys managed to make enough shots and enough stops to hold on for a double digit win and prevent State from ever really having a realistic chance to win.

All credit to State for not giving up, for fighting back and for really lighting it up for the final 20 minutes. And credit to our guys for maintaining composure and getting the critical scores, and stops, when they needed to.

pamtar
02-07-2013, 10:27 PM
Not buying the "tale of two halves" argument. State actually brought it in the second half. They shot their brains out and settled in on D. Howell's jumpers are something you kinda half to live with if your Mason with no real back-up. I will agree that we played more conservatively, but I don't think we played much worse. State is a good team. You're just not gonna shut them out for 40 minutes.

vick
02-07-2013, 10:27 PM
I am so tired of this argument. Barely scraping by is not something to celebrate. I'd like to think that the talent we have on this team far exceeds having to play hot potato with each other for the final 15 minutes in order to secure a victory over an average N.C. State team, which has now lost five of its last seven games. This is the exact type of play that will usher you to the nearest exit in the NCAA Tournament.

Why exactly we felt that going the Northern Illinois route in the second half was the way to seal the deal tonight is beyond me.

I really cannot follow this argument. Who are the teams that are so much better that a double-digit win for us against a probable tournament team indicates severe trouble? A Florida team that got smashed against Arkansas? An Indiana team that lost to an Illinois team that has played decidedly blah in Big Ten play? Kansas who lost to TCU?

I'm not defending the defense in the second half, which was not good, but if our issue right now is figuring out how to hold 20+ point leads...I'll live with us learning how to do it.

Saratoga2
02-07-2013, 10:27 PM
The offense was good until toward the end where we had four turnovers and made the game closer than it needed to be. Yes, some of the shots weren't going in but that can happen when guys get tired.

As others have mentioned, the defense was poor in the half, giving up a lot of open shots and Howell in particular was deadly. On the flip side of that, Amile can through with some really good offensive rebounds on Seth misses to keep us alive. I wonder if Curry, Rasheed, Quinn, Mason and Tyler are our best finishers. My only question would be Tyler who didn't add anything offensively and he is not a primary ball handler type.

-bdbd
02-07-2013, 10:29 PM
What, we don't storm the court when we beat State??!

BTW, someone needs to tell the ACC-Network guys that their mikes are still on and the telecast still going out after the game. For ten minutes have been listening to their chatter, thinking that it is a private conversation... Ha! One is complaining about having to "Get farmed out again" and do a Conference USA game next week... They're looking at the stat sheet and one says "Look at this...how many foul shots did they shoot? ..... Incredible." Then another (un-miked) voice comes in, presumably a State guy, and is heard in the background complaining about the fifth foul call on Howell. To their credit one of the announcers says, "Yeah he caught him with a glancing blow to the chin....(unitelligible response) ...NO, it doesn't matter. They still have to call it..." And the other (State) guy keeps arguing with them that "It really SHOULDN'T have been called, regardless of the technicality..." One of the TV announcers points out that Referee X (can't recall the name) was standing their "right beside the two of then, like this..." (sounds like he goes into a squatting stance maybe) "and HE doesn't call it... (the call) comes from BEHIND Howell..." Another voice then says "Unbelievable." :rolleyes:

After a few seconds one TV guys says, "So, is Coach K gonna come back out (and do a) interview?" And the other responds, snickering, "Yeah, right!"

Funny to hear their real opinions of the refs and Duke...
ACCN needs to run a much tighter ship though.

Slackerb
02-07-2013, 10:30 PM
Did anyone else hear the "how's your grandma" chant?

Poor form crazies.

roywhite
02-07-2013, 10:30 PM
Hey, did I hear we won tonight?

Beat a good NC State team by 98-85?

dyedwab
02-07-2013, 10:30 PM
1) Great first half, disappointing 2nd half especially defensively. But Mason owned Leslie, Seth and Quinn were hot long enough so that game was never really in doubt

2) We got sloppy on offense in the 2nd half but stall ball wasn't the issue. I was actually hoping for stall ball earlier as the clock was our friend and our defense wasn't....

3) Our shots not falling in the 2nd half looked a little like fatigue to me - not only were we 2 men short, but State was hammering us every play, called or uncalled. That takes a toll

But let me reiterate - Mason OWNED Leslie. THAT was an impressive performance.

sporthenry
02-07-2013, 10:31 PM
I really cannot follow this argument. Who are the teams that are so much better that a double-digit win for us against a probable tournament team indicates severe trouble? A Florida team that got smashed against Arkansas? An Indiana team that lost to an Illinois team that has played decidedly blah in Big Ten play? Kansas who lost to TCU?

I'm not defending the defense in the second half, which was not good, but if our issue right now is figuring out how to hold 20+ point leads...I'll live with us learning how to do it.

Another good point. No team we see in late March will be as bad defensively as NC State but find me the teams who are better offensively. Kenpom has them as the 7th best adjusted offense (1 behind Duke). Teams better than Duke are Creighton, Zaga, Florida, Indiana, and Michigan. So if Duke sees them, I think it'll be a good tournament.

And no team can match NC States front court (except maybe Miami) and that is without Kelly and them without Brown. But NC State is a good team and I'm glad Duke won't be near them come tourney time b/c they will more than likely be underseeded.

Duvall
02-07-2013, 10:32 PM
Did anyone else hear the "how's your grandma" chant?

Poor form crazies.

So tired of people making things up about Duke and calling it fact. Get a cite or go away.

sporthenry
02-07-2013, 10:34 PM
What, we don't storm the court when we beat State??!

BTW, someone needs to tell the ACC-Network guys that their mikes are still on and the telecast still going out after the game. For ten minutes have been listening to their chatter, thinking that it is a private conversation... Ha! One is complaining about having to "Get farmed out again" and do a Conference USA game next week... They're looking at the stat sheet and one says "Look at this...how many foul shots did they shoot? ..... Incredible." Then another (un-miked) voice comes in, presumably a State guy, and is heard in the background complaining about the fifth foul call on Howell. To their credit one of the announcers says, "Yeah he caught him with a glancing blow to the chin....(unitelligible response) ...NO, it doesn't matter. They still have to call it..." And the other (State) guy keeps arguing with them that "It really SHOULDN'T have been called, regardless of the technicality..." One on the TV annoiuncers points out that Referee X (can't recall the name) was standing their "right beside the two of then, like this..." (sounds like he goes into a squatting stance maybe) "and HE doesn't call it... (the call) comes from BEHIND Howell..." Another voice then says "Unbelievable." :rolleyes:

After a few seconds one says, "So is Coach K gonna come back out (and do a) interview?" And the other responds, snickering, "Yeah, right!"

Funny to hear their real opinions of the refs and Duke...
ACCN needs to run a much tighter ship though.

They were a joke. This whole ACCN thing has become a joke. Fans outside ACC can't get these games and somehow they think this will make the ACC more attractive. Then we get these announcers. I mentioned it twice in the in game thread and we complain about Elmore, Burke, etc. They at least try to be impartial. This whole game was about NC State and what they can do to get back in the game. They didn't even try to be impartial.

MCFinARL
02-07-2013, 10:34 PM
And another positive - we get woeful BC on Saturday!

Actually Sunday evening, which is probably just as well--it's still supposed to be snowing in Boston on Saturday and there may be as much as three feet. Actually possible even Sunday's game won't happen if the team doesn't get up there early tomorrow.

sporthenry
02-07-2013, 10:35 PM
Did anyone else hear the "how's your grandma" chant?

Poor form crazies.

Agree with Duvall. Twitter went crazy but I didn't hear anything not that I was paying attention. Flame until a cite.

El_Diablo
02-07-2013, 10:35 PM
Did anyone else hear the "how's your grandma" chant?

Poor form crazies.

No. Did you hear that?

I heard "Bilbo Baggins" when he was shooting free throws.

Cameron
02-07-2013, 10:41 PM
But why do you think the team will be satisfied with the second half effort. They played a great first half- almost flawless. They need to stay aggressive and do a better job on D but we have seen improvement. Still not there but a big improvement since the first State game

True. The first half was beautiful basketball, it really was, and we did stay tough-minded until the end. It was almost so good a first half that there was nowhere to go but down, which naturally makes it easier to pinpoint areas where we might have been inefficient in the second stanza.

There were, however, definitely spots in the second half where we could have been more on the offensive with the ball in our hands. Maybe I accidentally hit the buttons on my remote and was watching a different game, but I don't believe I am crazy. We were totally out of our element on offense for much of the final 10 minutes, and I believe we partly did that to ourselves by slowing things up, losing our flow and ending up with difficult shots or turnovers in the final 10 seconds of the shot clock.

Don't get me wrong. I am elated we won. I just tend to be more misanthropic than most. Seth and Mason were brillian tonight, and Sheed set the tone early.

Bluedog
02-07-2013, 10:43 PM
Joe Ovies says nobody on press row heard such a chant.

https://twitter.com/joeovies/status/299733714865356801

I guess somebody at NC State or UNC just started the rumor on twitter "Did you hear?!" and people run with it.

FerryFor50
02-07-2013, 10:44 PM
Joe Ovies says nobody on press row heard such a chant.

https://twitter.com/joeovies/status/299733714865356801

I guess somebody at NC State or UNC just started the rumor on twitter "Did you hear?!" and people run with it.

Gotta love twitter.

Cameron
02-07-2013, 10:45 PM
Hey, did I hear we won tonight?

Beat a good NC State team by 98-85?

Definitely a big win.

But is N.C. State really a "good" team? They are 2-5 over their last seven games. That is the definition of average. They keep it up and the Wolves will be on the outside looking in on Selection Sunday.

sporthenry
02-07-2013, 10:45 PM
Gotta love twitter.

Unfortunately, I don't have the twitter or the time to go through them and call people out. Either way proud of the Crazies and sorry I ever doubted you. I guess with recent occurrences though, nobody is above reproach sometimes.

sporthenry
02-07-2013, 10:47 PM
Definitely a big win.

But is N.C. State really a "good" team? They are 2-5 over their last seven games. That is the definition of average. They keep it up and the Wolves will be on the outside looking in on Selection Sunday.

Yes, they are a good team. They have let downs like most teams do. But they arguably just had the toughest 3 game stretch anyone will probably have. UVA at home is a different animal. Then #1 and #2 in RPI. And without their starting PG. Kenpom has them as the #7 offense in the country (Duke at 6).

And to tell if they are good, would you want to face them again in March/April? Because I certainly wouldn't.

vick
02-07-2013, 10:48 PM
There were, however, definitely spots in the second half where we could have been more on the offensive with the ball in our hands. Maybe I accidentally hit the buttons on my remote and was watching a different game, but I don't believe I am crazy. We were totally out of our element on offense for much of the final 10 minutes, and I believe we partly did that to ourselves by slowing things up, losing our flow and ending up with difficult shots or turnovers in the final 10 seconds of the shot clock.

Don't get me wrong. I am elated we won. I just tend to be more misanthropic than most. Seth and Mason were brillian tonight, and Sheed set the tone early.


I don't think you're crazy on this, actually, though I don't think it was quite that bad. I just don't think it means that much for tournament implications because we aren't too likely to have 20+ point leads past the first round (if that), and if we do, well, I'll be really really happy about it. Also, while he's a great talent, Quinn's still a sophomore who is playing his first full season at point, and effective slow pace against decent teams (as opposed to December non-conference cannon fodder) is a hard skill that I think takes some time to learn. My guess is Coach K will be a lot more frustrated at the second-half defense than the second-half offensive effectiveness.

Native
02-07-2013, 10:48 PM
Did anyone else hear the "how's your grandma" chant?

Poor form crazies.

To clear this up, the cheer was "Past Your Bedtime". I would know — I started it.

Do you really think we would start a cheer like that?

roywhite
02-07-2013, 10:48 PM
Definitely a big win.

But is N.C. State really a "good" team? They are 2-5 over their last seven games. That is the definition of average. They keep it up and the Wolves will be on the outside looking in on Selection Sunday.

Nationally ranked team with some top level talent, pre-season ACC favorites, beat us over in Raleigh.

Yeah, I'd say they meet several criteria for being considered a good team.
Sorry some fans have reached the point where they can't enjoy important wins.

flyingdutchdevil
02-07-2013, 10:49 PM
No. Did you hear that?

I heard "Bilbo Baggins" when he was shooting free throws.

I was at the game. Didn't hear anything about grandmothers. Did hear the "Bilbo Baggins". I thought it was kinda funny. A lot of "Purv...is". Thought it was a cheap laugh.

Energy was lacking during the game from the fans. A lot - and I mean a lot - of that has to do with the fact that we came out guns blazing and, ironically, our team took the wind out of the Crazies. You need to be playing that well in order to have that happen.

Bluedog
02-07-2013, 10:49 PM
Joe Ovies says nobody on press row heard such a chant.

https://twitter.com/joeovies/status/299733714865356801

I guess somebody at NC State or UNC just started the rumor on twitter "Did you hear?!" and people run with it.


Gotta love twitter.


Unfortunately, I don't have the twitter or the time to go through them and call people out. Either way proud of the Crazies and sorry I ever doubted you. I guess with recent occurrences though, nobody is above reproach sometimes.

Although, as Joe Ovies said, it's possible there was like one or two people that shouted it...who knows. But that doesn't constitute a "chant." But no idea where it originated.

sagegrouse
02-07-2013, 10:50 PM
This game was Duke's season in a bottle. Duke at its best without Kelly and then Duke at its worst without Kelly. They let the foot off the gas too early and let NCSU shoot nearly 80% in the 2nd half. Awful.

The open looks that went down in the first half rimmed out in the 2nd. Such a sharp contrast...

Some of it was stall ball, some was poor defense, some was from long rebounds leading to transition pints for State. But guess what?

A win's a win.

I thought State played very, very well in the second half. But, of course, that was after it was almost impossible for them to win.

Good win, team. State is a good team, of which we will hear much more before the end of the season.

The first half play was inspired.

Mason's play was inspired for both the first and second halves.

sagegrouse

Cameron
02-07-2013, 10:51 PM
Yes, they are a good team. They have let downs like most teams do. But they arguably just had the toughest 3 game stretch anyone will probably have. UVA at home is a different animal. Then #1 and #2 in RPI. And without their starting PG. Kenpom has them as the #7 offense in the country (Duke at 6).

And to tell if they are good, would you want to face them again in March/April? Because I certainly wouldn't.

With Ryan Kelly in the lineup to help Mason deal with Leslie and Howell, yes, it is a team I would want to play. I enjoy beating State. And with a healthy Ryan, we are just straight up better than they are.

ChrisP
02-07-2013, 10:51 PM
Obviously, would have liked to have finished stronger, but I disagree with some in the in-game thread who seemed to think we were playing not to lose. But even if we were, guess what we DIDN'T lose. I think Howell may have missed 1 shot in the 2nd half (but I honestly can't recall it), plus Seth and Tyler had at least 3 wide open threes between them that rimmed out. It happens. I was really proud of the effort for most of the game.

My main beef was with all the dumb, unforced mental errors near the end of the game:
- Ten second violation? Check!
- Push off by Rasheed for an offensive foul? Check!
- Totally unforced walk by Tyler (I think)? Check!

I do think guys were tired though at the end after that tremendous first half effort. And, I suspect that the game pressure State put on us also caused some of those unforced errors mentioned above. But here's the thing - it's a win, in early February, with a thin team missing RK and JH. Anyone who has any sense had to know that State wasn't going to let us continue to light it up from 3 in the second half. I wish we'd hit at least ONE, but, whatever. Instead, they played a bit more physical style and we feasted at the FT line. Mason had a monster game that should put him squarely back into the POY discussion and Quinn scored a seemingly quiet 21. And oh yeah, we put 98 points on a very good (even without Brown) NC State team AND out-rebounded them.

I think there is a lot to be proud of here. One minor nitpick - I thought Rasheed was not very aggressive at all in the 2nd, but I'm sure that probably had something to do with State's D. In any case, I think there were lots of teachable moments near the end of the game and I'm quite sure K and staff will be all over that in subsequent film sessions. We're getting better in Ryan's absence and I, for one, couldn't be happier

Furniture
02-07-2013, 10:52 PM
We won!

Scored NINETY EIGHT points.

Was it a second half as good as the first? No.

But.....

The glass is half full.

We won!

Furniture
02-07-2013, 10:54 PM
Obviously, would have liked to have finished stronger, but I disagree with some in the in-game thread who seemed to think we were playing not to lose. But even if we were, guess what we DIDN'T lose. I think Howell may have missed 1 shot in the 2nd half (but I honestly can't recall it), plus Seth and Tyler had at least 3 wide open threes between them that rimmed out. It happens. I was really proud of the effort for most of the game.

My main beef was with all the dumb, unforced mental errors near the end of the game:
- Ten second violation? Check!
- Push off by Rasheed for an offensive foul? Check!
- Totally unforced walk by Tyler (I think)? Check!

I do think guys were tired though at the end after that tremendous first half effort. And, I suspect that the game pressure State put on us also caused some of those unforced errors mentioned above. But here's the thing - it's a win, in early February, with a thin team missing RK and JH. Anyone who has any sense had to know that State wasn't going to let us continue to light it up from 3 in the second half. I wish we'd hit at least ONE, but, whatever. Instead, they played a bit more physical style and we feasted at the FT line. Mason had a monster game that should put him squarely back into the POY discussion and Quinn scored a seemingly quiet 21. And oh yeah, we put 98 points on a very good (even without Brown) NC State team AND out-rebounded them.

I think there is a lot to be proud of here. One minor nitpick - I thought Rasheed was not very aggressive at all in the 2nd, but I'm sure that probably had something to do with State's D. In any case, I think there were lots of teachable moments near the end of the game and I'm quite sure K and staff will be all over that in subsequent film sessions. We're getting better in Ryan's absence and I, for one, couldn't be happier

Was Sheed getting in foul trouble? Possible explanation?

Cameron
02-07-2013, 10:57 PM
Nationally ranked team with some top level talent, pre-season ACC favorites, beat us over in Raleigh.

Yeah, I'd say they meet several criteria for being considered a good team.
Sorry some fans have reached the point where they can't enjoy important wins.

I have already stated that I am elated over our win.

Yes, State has had to deal with the injury of an important player in the past couple of games.
So have other teams, including Duke. But State has played way below its preseason expectations most of the year. They have been, quite frankly, underwhelming.

On top of losing 5 of 7 over the past two weeks, State was torched at Michigan when at full strength earlier in the year. The final score of that game is not indicative at all of the beating they took there. I just haven't been impressed. That is a lot of games to play so underwhelming.

Furniture
02-07-2013, 11:00 PM
http://twitter.yfrog.com/nwbzpldhj

HEHE!

roywhite
02-07-2013, 11:03 PM
Duke 98 -- NC State 85 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=206323261)

Team FG% turned out about the same -- 53.8% for Duke and 53.0% for State
Duke had a slight edge in rebounding
Major edge to Duke in Free Throws and number of 3-pt shots made

Tyler Lewis in 39 minutes had 6 assists and 0 turnovers; Opie can play.

Duvall
02-07-2013, 11:17 PM
Duke scored 40 points on 33 or so possessions in a half in which they couldn't make an open 3. I think any concerns about Duke's offensive flow in the second half are probably misplaced.

roywhite
02-07-2013, 11:25 PM
Duke scored 40 points on 33 or so possessions in a half in which they couldn't make an open 3. I think any concerns about Duke's offensive flow in the second half are probably misplaced.

My biggest wish for this team (other than Ryan Kelly's return to good health and good form) would be to have more scoring punch off the bench. The main guys play very well for much of the time, but can wear down, and so far we're just not getting much offense from the subs.

sporthenry
02-07-2013, 11:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ9O2KOwjOk

Trying to stay out of rumor mongering territory. Apparently, this is the video which shows the grandma chant. Posted by our "own" Shane Ryan. He says at the 35 second mark you can hear it. I don't hear it. He is also doing his best to throw us under the bus on twitter.

ETA: Nolan doing his best to do damage control on twitter. Pretty disgusting how this stuff starts and takes off without any evidence. Sadly, people hear what they want to hear and most people just saw it on twitter and have already made up their mind.

Utley
02-07-2013, 11:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ9O2KOwjOk

Trying to stay out of rumor mongering territory. Apparently, this is the video which shows the grandma chant. Posted by our "own" Shane Ryan. He says at the 35 second mark you can hear it. I don't hear it. He is also doing his best to throw us under the bus on twitter.

ETA: Nolan doing his best to do damage control on twitter. Pretty disgusting how this stuff starts and takes off without any evidence. Sadly, people hear what they want to hear and most people just saw it on twitter and have already made up their mind.

I was at the game too and the chant was definitely "past your bedtime" - one of the crazies even had a sign or poster saying that.

jcastranio
02-07-2013, 11:44 PM
I cannot quite understand some of the doom and gloom, two halves, etc. The world's greatest coach does know what he is doing.

You take the game as it comes. We shot very well in the first half and led by 21. The only way to lose this game was to run with State in the second half (which is their strength. Instead, we managed the game in the second half and the game was never in question. State did shoot awfully well in the second half, particularly Howell. We used the shot clock, hit free throws, and won easily by 13. A little less hot shooting by State, along with eliminating a few blockhead turnovers, and the game stays at 20. 13 or 20, no difference. We controlled the game after halftime. That is smart basketball.

Nice hustle efforts from Amile and Alex tonight.

The big three were big. Rasheed turned it around from that first game.

Very pleased. (This is a real good team - a contender for the title. It is not 2001, with five NBA starters on the floor. We play to win games, not to win a half.)

DukeHLM'13
02-07-2013, 11:45 PM
Did anyone else hear the "how's your grandma" chant?

Poor form crazies.

We chanted "Past you bedtime." At no point during the game was there a how's your grandma chant. I'm pretty sure that at least 95% of the students didn't even know about the situation with his grandma.

Leelee902
02-07-2013, 11:47 PM
I was in the grad section -->. For the love of cod (yes, cod) we were saying, "past your bedtime!". Some undergrads even wrote the chant on a whiteboard before the cheer! :mad:

mehmattski
02-07-2013, 11:47 PM
I was at the game in the grad student section. Just before Tyler Lewis went to the free throw line, one of the undergrad line monitors held up his whiteboad reading "It is now past Tyler Lewis' bedtime." This immediately preceded the "Past your bedtime" chant during the free throws. In the first half, the Crazies chanted at him "Bilbo Baggins."

Maybe there were an isolated few with chants that I could not hear, but if it was one of those two chants, I can guarantee nothing about his grandmother was chanted en mass.

Utley
02-07-2013, 11:49 PM
I can only see this as a great win. Second half was a little frustrating - some defensive lapses but also some ridiculous shooting by State (the basket at that end was still on fire from our first half). State is good - that front court is ridiculous. I focus more on the first half - we were just ridiculously good - without Ryan Kelly. Let's just revel in that.

SupaDave
02-08-2013, 12:03 AM
Ok - chant settled. So what did you guys think of the game?

I found it to be thrilling. That second half was an interesting monster.

tommy
02-08-2013, 12:06 AM
I am so tired of this argument. Barely scraping by is not something to celebrate.

I'm guessing that the fans of Indiana, Kansas and Florida only wish they could have "scraped by" with 13 point wins in the last 48 hours. Or any wins at all.

DukeHLM'13
02-08-2013, 12:08 AM
The 2 blocks by Mason and Quinn late. Especially the one by Mason which stopped Leslie from cutting the lead to 7 and then directly lead to Leslie's 5th foul.

It was a great, sneaky block that really came out of nowhere and helped to seal the win.

jipops
02-08-2013, 12:18 AM
Definitely a big win.

But is N.C. State really a "good" team? They are 2-5 over their last seven games. That is the definition of average. They keep it up and the Wolves will be on the outside looking in on Selection Sunday.

In my opinion State is a bad team with loads of offensive talent. Tonight's game featured two subpar defensive teams. Theirs' was nonexistent in the 1st, ours was bad in the 2nd. It did't help State that Purvis had a miserable game .

jipops
02-08-2013, 12:20 AM
The Tuba guys in the pep band played great free throw defense in the 2nd half.

Native
02-08-2013, 12:21 AM
The 2 blocks by Mason and Quinn late. Especially the one by Mason which stopped Leslie from cutting the lead to 7 and then directly lead to Leslie's 5th foul.

It was a great, sneaky block that really came out of nowhere and helped to seal the win.

It's all about that Murphy dunk. All about that Murphy dunk.

gumbomoop
02-08-2013, 12:29 AM
But is N.C. State really a "good" team? They are 2-5 over their last seven games. That is the definition of average. They keep it up and the Wolves will be on the outside looking in on Selection Sunday.

Although I agree that if the Pack keeps losing they would be in trouble, I don't expect them to lose many more in the regular season. I'm more inclined to agree ...


Solid win. Quite likely that there will be a rubber match in the semi-finals of the ACC tournament. Hopefully both teams are at full strength by then.

... that Duke and NCSt are, yes, actually likely opponents in the ACC semis. Miami has an easy last half of its ACC schedule, and is right now a solid favorite to finish first. Although NCSt looks to be struggling at 5-5, its remaining ACC schedule is, like Miami's, weak. Brown may be back by this Sunday's game @ Clemson, and certainly by the time the Pack travel to CH (2/23). I'd peg this very good [on O] Pack team to recover nicely from Brown's absence to finish at either 12-6 or 13-5, i.e., either win out or lose only 1 ACC game. Duke, UVa, and UNC have roughly equal schedules remaining, and one of Duke, UVa, UNC, and NCSt will miss out on the Thursday ACCT bye. I don't think it will be either Duke or NCSt.

oldnavy
02-08-2013, 06:03 AM
For those on the board that are unhappy with our second half, please consider how the game was called by the refs. There was little to no chance of getting into any type of rhythm in the second half due to the insane amount of fouls being called (on both sides).

I think that under the circumstances Duke did an amazing job in both halfs. Of course the opening half was beyond impressive, but I didn't see that we "let up" in the second, it was just a different flow to the game and a lot of that had to do with the calls and open shot not falling at the rate they did in the first half, IMO.

Mason making FT's was crucial to winning this game.

roywhite
02-08-2013, 06:15 AM
Duke, UVa, and UNC have roughly equal schedules remaining, and one of Duke, UVa, UNC, and NCSt will miss out on the Thursday ACCT bye. I don't think it will be either Duke or NCSt.

Speaking of schedules remaining, seems a little strange for Duke to have 9 conference games left, a full half season, at this calendar date. Talk about a long grind.

wsb3
02-08-2013, 06:19 AM
Such unbridled optimism..how dare you? :D

Yes the second half was painful but I don't know if it is realistic to expect a repeat of the first half..We did miss open 3's that went down in the first half. I did not really see us being that tired but when K called a full time out right before the under 8:00 timeout..I did wonder if he did that to get back to back rest..Once again Coach K has done a wonderful job of managing an in season injury to a very important player.

We lose people, some early to the NBA, which is the nature of the game today. K finds a way. I remember the summer when Brand & company departed and all the crap I heard from Carolina fans that summer..How bad we were going to be..One of my favorite teams for what they did..As I was watching this game I thought boy am I glad Mason stayed.. I don't even want to think where we would be without him..even with Coach K..He was a beast tonight.. All the scoring and rebounding and in my mind he sealed the game with his block at the end. A block while having four fouls. Big time.


We won!

Scored NINETY EIGHT points.

Was it a second half as good as the first? No.

But.....

The glass is half full.

We won!

moonpie23
02-08-2013, 07:04 AM
i'm not sure what game you debbies were watching last night.......i was watching a team bent on payback SCHOOLING the visitors so hard that even the wuffies were standing around muttering "good shot".........then when the other team woke up in the locker room, they came out and acted like the team they were....a VERY good team.


state made shots in the second half, our defense sagged a bit and our offense wasn't quite the blistering pace, but our team wrapped it up. officiating had a big effect on the stodgy flow of the second half as well...


i thought it was a great game....

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-08-2013, 07:22 AM
i'm not sure what game you debbies were watching last night.......i was watching a team bent on payback SCHOOLING the visitors so hard that even the wuffies were standing around muttering "good shot".........then when the other team woke up in the locker room, they came out and acted like the team they were....a VERY good team.


state made shots in the second half, our defense sagged a bit and our offense wasn't quite the blistering pace, but our team wrapped it up. officiating had a big effect on the stodgy flow of the second half as well...


i thought it was a great game....
Agreed. Some of you folks need to wake up and smell the coffee. K is in the process of engineering another amazing mid-season adjustment. Not every minute of basketball we play is going to be brilliant, near-perfect, inspired hoops like the first 10 minutes of last night's game. But if you would stop and notice, you will see a team that is literally re-learning how to play together in Ryan's absence and doing a better and better job every week. This thing is not even fully baked yet. You could continue to pick at this and pick at that and tell yourself we're not as good as our 20-2 record would suggest. Or you can take notice that the season is more than half over and try to enjoy the rest of what this season will bring. I prefer the latter. It's what we agonizingly look forward to for seven months every year.

Billy Dat
02-08-2013, 07:40 AM
Anyone know the story behind this, if there is one?

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS
Best friends. RT @willbrinson: You can tell Coach K really likes Mark Gottfried: http://yfrog.com/nwbzpldhj

The photo is the post game shake and K is not smiling. Is there a bad history between K and Gottfried?

Dukeblue91
02-08-2013, 07:41 AM
i'm not sure what game you debbies were watching last night.......i was watching a team bent on payback SCHOOLING the visitors so hard that even the wuffies were standing around muttering "good shot".........then when the other team woke up in the locker room, they came out and acted like the team they were....a VERY good team.


state made shots in the second half, our defense sagged a bit and our offense wasn't quite the blistering pace, but our team wrapped it up. officiating had a big effect on the stodgy flow of the second half as well...


i thought it was a great game....

Agreed!!
I thought we played a great game in the first and a good game in the second half.
Beating State by 13 in the ACC is nothing to sneeze at and a great win.
Considering the flow of the second half, I thought we played good ball.
Me I'm very happy with this win and think some of the people here moaning are just not being very realistic about our and other teams.

davekay1971
02-08-2013, 08:04 AM
“Howell, for all the players in our league, is the unsung hero,” Krzyzewski said. “The unsung great player in our league.”

Any question who K would probably take on his roster from another ACC team? And, as usual, he's right. Howell has improved so much from his freshman year till now, you'd think Wojo was his big man coach. I felt terrible for Howell with that last foul. He should never have brought his elbow up like that (number one, there's a reason they whistle that - it's a dangerous move; number two, the refs were calling it so tight the second half, he should have known he'd get whistled), but you could see the pain on his face during the end of the game. The kid wanted this game, and he played brilliantly until he fouled out.

Duke should feel incredibly positive right now. They hit their low point in the Game-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named. Since then, all they've done is play brilliantly in 3 out of their last four, winning 2 on the road, dominating in 3 of the 4 games. Amile has shown that he can contribute well as our starting 4. Rasheed has stepped up. Alex provided good minutes last night. Mason has proven he can stay on the court, even in tightly called games (oh, and, by the way, back to back 30 point games is pretty nice, too).

We look good. We look as good as any other imperfect but really good team in the nation.

Duvall
02-08-2013, 08:04 AM
Anyone know the story behind this, if there is one?

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS
Best friends. RT @willbrinson: You can tell Coach K really likes Mark Gottfried: http://yfrog.com/nwbzpldhj

The photo is the post game shake and K is not smiling. Is there a bad history between K and Gottfried?

Not that I know of. But Gottfried is a Jim Harrick protege, so it's hard to know why anyone *would* like him.

Mike Corey
02-08-2013, 08:09 AM
Coach K is a competitor. Gottfried's team won the last game. Coach K was amped up. I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

The fictitious grandma story is already "fact" thanks to the Internet and irresponsible journalists. So it goes.

The story of the game was our absurd offensive production in the first half, and Mason's tenacity in the second. That swat of Leslie in the waning minutes was truly something to see.

Our defense has clearly suffered more than our offense in the absence of Kelly. More adjustment and growth is needed, no doubt. But this was a big win and a big step for this team.

Go Duke.

dyedwab
02-08-2013, 08:21 AM
I always gain greater perspective the next morning, esp. after reading what K and the players had to say

Seth said that the tight officiating in the 2nd half made it harder to get into a rhythm - that make sense to me.

K did indicate that fatigue, and the fact that we built such a big lead, led to a bit of a lull in 2nd half.

Team seems to be taking shape in its Kelly-less form. I'm particularly impressed with the starts we had against FSU and NCState. Our slow starts has seemed a problem to me, and that seems to have been corrected. Allowed us to withstand a light-out offensive performance by State in the 2nd half.

superdave
02-08-2013, 08:47 AM
The 2 blocks by Mason and Quinn late. Especially the one by Mason which stopped Leslie from cutting the lead to 7 and then directly lead to Leslie's 5th foul.

It was a great, sneaky block that really came out of nowhere and helped to seal the win.

Yep. That block on CJ got me to vote for Mason for man de la match. Mason is being really assertive right now, similar to November. Hope he keeps it up because we jump a level when he decides to play the role of dominant big man.

rsvman
02-08-2013, 08:53 AM
I am so tired of this argument. Barely scraping by is not something to celebrate. I'd like to think that the talent we have on this team far exceeds having to play hot potato with each other for the final 15 minutes in order to secure a victory over an average N.C. State team, which has now lost five of its last seven games. This is the exact type of play that will usher you to the nearest exit in the NCAA Tournament.

Why exactly we felt that going the Northern Illinois route in the second half was the way to seal the deal tonight is beyond me.

You can be tired all you want, but it doesn't change the facts. Not losing and winning are the exact same thing.
We not only won the game, we won it pretty handily. We are 20-2.
I've decided after long reflection that this guy they call Coach K really does know quite a bit about basketball.

roywhite
02-08-2013, 08:56 AM
Yep. That block on CJ got me to vote for Mason for man de la match. Mason is being really assertive right now, similar to November. Hope he keeps it up because we jump a level when he decides to play the role of dominant big man.

Just looked at his stats for the year so far
18.2 pts/gm
10.7 rebs/gm
61.3% FG
65.1% FT
1.6 blocks/gm

and leads the team in minutes at 34.2/game; he's our rock

Mason is getting it done on a Conference POY level, and can contend for national honors also

superdave
02-08-2013, 09:04 AM
Just looked at his stats for the year so far
18.2 pts/gm
10.7 rebs/gm
61.3% FG
65.1% FT
1.6 blocks/gm

and leads the team in minutes at 34.2/game; he's our rock

Mason is getting it done on a Conference POY level, and can contend for national honors also

A couple more 30 point games and maybe an ACCT mvp and Mason would jump back to the front of the NPOY race. I kind of expect Michigan to fade which hurts Trey Burke. They just seem like a streaky team to me.

It will be interesting to see how Mason reacts to the eventual reintegration of Ryan into the lineup. That's like re-setting the season a second time, which could get interesting.

devildeac
02-08-2013, 09:17 AM
A couple more 30 point games and maybe an ACCT mvp and Mason would jump back to the front of the NPOY race. I kind of expect Michigan to fade which hurts Trey Burke. They just seem like a streaky team to me.

It will be interesting to see how Mason reacts to the eventual reintegration of Ryan into the lineup. That's like re-setting the season a second time, which could get interesting.

I have to think this will only help him as it should lessen the amount of double teams he would see if Ryan returns to his prior role and level of play. Double Mason? OK, let's relocate the ball and find yet another outside shooter. Single cover him? Mason will "beast" you as he did last PM. Plus, maybe he gets an extra couple minutes of rest during a game which I don't think he's had much of since Ryan got "booted."

Channing
02-08-2013, 09:18 AM
Just looked at his stats for the year so far
18.2 pts/gm
10.7 rebs/gm
61.3% FG
65.1% FT1.6 blocks/gm

and leads the team in minutes at 34.2/game; he's our rock

Mason is getting it done on a Conference POY level, and can contend for national honors also

This is really a testament to Mason's hard work and dedication by the coaching staff. He had a huge game from the stripe last night, and just looked confident when he was taking the free throws from Howell's flagrant. The ability to make free throws makes him SO much more dangerous.

Slackerb
02-08-2013, 09:38 AM
For those on the board that are unhappy with our second half, please consider how the game was called by the refs. There was little to no chance of getting into any type of rhythm in the second half due to the insane amount of fouls being called (on both sides).

I think that under the circumstances Duke did an amazing job in both halfs. Of course the opening half was beyond impressive, but I didn't see that we "let up" in the second, it was just a different flow to the game and a lot of that had to do with the calls and open shot not falling at the rate they did in the first half, IMO.

Mason making FT's was crucial to winning this game.

What did you guys think of the 41 free throws attempted by Duke. Amazing. The previous few games it has averaged around 15 FT attempts per game. State's opponents have been averaging around 17 FT attempts per game the last few.

Dev11
02-08-2013, 09:38 AM
I see on Twitter that Deadspin has picked up the false offensive chant story. Surely nobody jumps to conclusions about something Deadspin posted.

94duke
02-08-2013, 09:43 AM
What did you guys think of the 41 free throws attempted by Duke. Amazing. The previous few games it has averaged around 15 FT attempts per game. State's opponents have been averaging around 17 FT attempts per game the last few.

There were a lot of whistles in the 2nd half. Both teams shot twice as many FT's in the 2nd half as they did in the 1st.

State: FT % 1st Half: 4-6 66.7% 2nd Half: 7-13 53.8% Game: 57.9%
Duke: FT % 1st Half: 10-13 76.9% 2nd Half: 22-28 78.6% Game: 78.0%

Official Box Score (from goduke.com):
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=206323261

Channing
02-08-2013, 09:53 AM
Perhaps someone mentioned, but I guess it is now relevant. What is wrong with Tyler Lewis's grandmother? Is this going to be like how the crazies "chanted" "crackhead parents" at Juan Dixon or "orphan" at Scott Williams? Just an urban legend that is more fun for ABDers to believe than not to believe?

tbyers11
02-08-2013, 09:54 AM
What did you guys think of the 41 free throws attempted by Duke. Amazing. The previous few games it has averaged around 15 FT attempts per game. State's opponents have been averaging around 17 FT attempts per game the last few.

I think NC State fouled Duke a lot. I think Duke did a great job of pounding the ball into Mason. State fouled Seth twice while shooting 3's. State fouled Duke while in the act of shooting all night long. I did not think there were many off the ball foul calls or hand checks called against State.

I also think that the amount of FT attempts shot by Duke or allowed by NC State have no correlation with last night's game. The refs called things very tightly to start the second half on both teams and continued to do so for the rest of the game.

tbyers11
02-08-2013, 09:55 AM
Perhaps someone mentioned, but I guess it is now relevant. What is wrong with Tyler Lewis's grandmother? Is this going to be like how the crazies "chanted" "crackhead parents" at Juan Dixon or "orphan" at Scott Williams? Just an urban legend that is more fun for ABDers to believe than not to believe?

She passed away last week before the Miami game. Yeah, another urban legend that never happened. "Past your bedtime" doesn't even sound like "How's your Grandma?" other than having the same cadence. Shane Ryan and Matt Norlander should be ashamed of themselves for propagating this.

TruBlu
02-08-2013, 11:04 AM
What did you guys think of the 41 free throws attempted by Duke. Amazing. The previous few games it has averaged around 15 FT attempts per game. State's opponents have been averaging around 17 FT attempts per game the last few.

A) NCSU was attempting a comeback from a large deficit. Fouling and hoping for misses is one way to attempt a comeback, especially when fouling a player such as Mason with a reputation as a poor free throw shooter. Props to Mason for nailing them.

B) When a team fouls a three point shooter, the shooter gets three free throws. This causes the free throw total to add up.;)

C) Off the top of my head (I may be wrong), i do not recall a Duke player missing the front end of any one-and-one attempts.

D) IMHO, we really did not play a tight defense in the second half, possibly because all of our guards had two fouls in the first half IIRC.

Lar77
02-08-2013, 11:10 AM
I always gain greater perspective the next morning, esp. after reading what K and the players had to say

Seth said that the tight officiating in the 2nd half made it harder to get into a rhythm - that make sense to me.

K did indicate that fatigue, and the fact that we built such a big lead, led to a bit of a lull in 2nd half.

Team seems to be taking shape in its Kelly-less form. I'm particularly impressed with the starts we had against FSU and NCState. Our slow starts has seemed a problem to me, and that seems to have been corrected. Allowed us to withstand a light-out offensive performance by State in the 2nd half.

Capel said the same thing about fatigue on the post-game. State all year has been a better second half team and there is no way we were going to sustain our first half performance. Especially with everyone having foul trouble. Howell was hitting open shots from the outside (sometimes people get unconscious), but would you want Mason to play him tight and open up CJ Leslie down low?

We made some mistakes, but we did what we had to do. We carry that effort every game and we are in the FF. For now, just beat BC and GTHC.

jimsumner
02-08-2013, 11:17 AM
I didn't hear a Grandma chant. And I'm well positioned to hear the chants.

But, if you read it on the internet . . .

I'm reminded on the infamous Cameron "PLO" chant, which the Crazies hurled at Arizona's Steve Kerr, whose father was murdered in Lebanon. Heard about it for years. Read about it for years. Truly awful stuff.

The only problem with the narrative is that Steve Kerr never played a single second in Cameron. So, it not only never happened, it never could have happened. Which one could find out in about 30 seconds of research.

But, oh, that's so much work.

Enough about that.

I continue to be flummoxed by the negativity that takes over this board even after a double-digit win. Stall-ball. Cheez. Duke had a working lead and a seven-player rotation, almost all of whom are in foul trouble and one of whom is running on fumes, because he hardly ever practices. Not using the shot clock for your benefit in this situation would come close to coaching malpractice.

NC State is very, very talented and this was a really good win.

IMO.

Lar77
02-08-2013, 11:20 AM
I didn't hear a Grandma chant. And I'm well positioned to hear the chants.

But, if you read it on the internet . . .

I'm reminded on the infamous Cameron "PLO" chant, which the Crazies hurled at Arizona's Steve Kerr, whose father was murdered in Lebanon. Heard about it for years. Read about it for years. Truly awful stuff.

The only problem with the narrative is that Steve Kerr never played a single second in Cameron. So, it not only never happened, it never could have happened. Which one could find out in about 30 seconds of research.

But, oh, that's so much work.

Enough about that.

I continue to be flummoxed by the negativity that takes over this board even after a double-digit win. Stall-ball. Cheez. Duke had a working lead and a seven-player rotation, almost all of whom are in foul trouble and one of whom is running on fumes, because he hardly ever practices. Not using the shot clock for your benefit in this situation would come close to coaching malpractice.

NC State is very, very talented and this was a really good win.

IMO.

Agree completely Jim. Thank you.

newclasspack
02-08-2013, 11:33 AM
Good game (didn't get to watch it Was at work) you guys played at home well. Only gripe is i didn't see Howell connect to mason on that last foul, but it is what it is..

Also.. the "how's your grandma" chant was... less than. and that's all that needs to be said about that.

newclasspack
02-08-2013, 11:34 AM
I didn't hear a Grandma chant. And I'm well positioned to hear the chants.

But, if you read it on the internet . . .

I'm reminded on the infamous Cameron "PLO" chant, which the Crazies hurled at Arizona's Steve Kerr, whose father was murdered in Lebanon. Heard about it for years. Read about it for years. Truly awful stuff.

The only problem with the narrative is that Steve Kerr never played a single second in Cameron. So, it not only never happened, it never could have happened. Which one could find out in about 30 seconds of research.

But, oh, that's so much work.

Enough about that.

I continue to be flummoxed by the negativity that takes over this board even after a double-digit win. Stall-ball. Cheez. Duke had a working lead and a seven-player rotation, almost all of whom are in foul trouble and one of whom is running on fumes, because he hardly ever practices. Not using the shot clock for your benefit in this situation would come close to coaching malpractice.

NC State is very, very talented and this was a really good win.

IMO.
This is pretty obvious..

http://youtu.be/hZ9O2KOwjOk

Duvall
02-08-2013, 11:38 AM
Good game (didn't get to watch it Was at work) you guys played at home well. Only gripe is i didn't see Howell connect to mason on that last foul, but it is what it is..

Of course you didn't see the foul if you didn't get to watch the game. Hard to spot fouls on radio.


Also.. the "how's your grandma" chant was... less than. and that's all that needs to be said about that.

It was less than a lot of things, due to its failure to exist.

nocilla
02-08-2013, 11:58 AM
This is pretty obvious..

http://youtu.be/hZ9O2KOwjOk

Yes, it is pretty obvious that they are chanting "Past your bedtime" in that clip. That should end the discussion shouldn't it?

grad_devil
02-08-2013, 12:00 PM
This is pretty obvious..

http://youtu.be/hZ9O2KOwjOk

Yeah, try as I might, I can't make it say "How's your grandma". I keep hearing the hard 'P' in 'Past' and the 't' in 'bedTime'.

Sorry, conspiracy theorists. If this did occur, it got washed out by the rest of the crazies chanting 'Past your bedtime'.

Kedsy
02-08-2013, 12:14 PM
The 2 blocks by Mason and Quinn late. Especially the one by Mason which stopped Leslie from cutting the lead to 7 and then directly lead to Leslie's 5th foul.

It was a great, sneaky block that really came out of nowhere and helped to seal the win.


It's all about that Murphy dunk. All about that Murphy dunk.

I think the Mason block of Leslie was a huuuuge play, especially because (as you say) it directly led to Leslie fouling out. The Murphy dunk was the most impressive looking play of the night.

But in my mind, the play of the game was the very first play of the first half. Rasheed blew by Wood like he wasn't there and drove into Howell, and Howell fouled him as he made the layup. Howell having a foul 2 seconds into the game essentially insured he'd be in foul trouble the whole time, and in my opinion putting Howell in foul trouble is the key to beating State. So that's my play of the game.

As far as the "tale of two halves," I only agree to this extent: Duke scored 30 points from three-pointers in the first half and 4 points (all free throws) from threes in the second half. Beyond that, the disparity is mostly an illusion.

Even if you don't buy that, it wasn't a half and half thing at all. It was the first 13 minutes and the last 27 minutes. For the first 13 minutes of the game (culminating in Quinn's third three-pointer), we outscored State 41 to 21 in 23 possessions. That's 1.78 points per possession for us and 0.91 ppp for them. In the last 7 minutes of the first half, we outscored them 17 to 16 in 12 possessions. That's 1.42 ppp for us and 1.33 for them. In the second half, they outscored us 48 to 40 in 35 possessions, that's 1.37 ppp for them and 1.14 for us.

So, for Duke defensively, the last 7 minutes of the first half were almost identical to the second half (1.33 vs. 1.37). But were we really so much better on D for those first 13 minutes? That stretch included 7 unconverted offensive rebounds (during 4 possessions) and 7 missed layups for State. If they hit 4 of those 7 layups, they would have 29 points in 23 possessions, or 1.26 ppp, which isn't really very different from the 1.37 ppp they managed in the 2nd half. Now, were all those missed layups due to great Duke defense? Maybe, but to me it looked more like a brief stretch of physical play underneath (uncalled by the refs, unlike the 2nd half) combined with State just missing from 2 feet and in.

Offensively for Duke, if you take two threes away from us in the first 13 minutes (making us a more believable 8 for 17 rather than 10 for 17) and give them to us in the 2nd half (making us 2 for 7 instead of 0 for 7), then our points per possession would have been 1.52 for the first 13 minutes, 1.42 for the next 7 minutes and 1.31 in the 2nd half. And the slight decline we say there could easily be explained by State's increased physical play and fatigue on our part.

Which, to mix my literary metaphors, is a very long-winded way of saying this "tale of two halves" is really much ado about nothing.

UrinalCake
02-08-2013, 12:30 PM
Of course you didn't see the foul if you didn't get to watch the game. Hard to spot fouls on radio.

I watched it and couldn't really tell for sure if he made contact. If he did, it wasn't very solid contact and Mason certainly sold it. According to the announcers, it's an automatic flagrant foul if you make contact with your defender as a result of swinging your upper body wildly. I didn't think it was that "wild;" Howell was basically pivoting in order to drive to his right. Certainly no intent to injure or anything like that. He did gain an advantage by swinging his elbows, so in that sense it should be a foul, but I'm pretty sure if that type of call had been made against us we'd be complaining about it. At that point State was on a mini-run and still had only a small chance at coming back, but the fifth foul plus the technical all but squelched even that small chance that they had.

CDu
02-08-2013, 12:35 PM
Yeah, try as I might, I can't make it say "How's your grandma". I keep hearing the hard 'P' in 'Past' and the 't' in 'bedTime'.

Sorry, conspiracy theorists. If this did occur, it got washed out by the rest of the crazies chanting 'Past your bedtime'.

I can certainly hear it as "how's your grandma" if choose to hear it that way. I actually have an easier time hearing "how's your grandma" than "past your bedtime." But if I try, I can hear it as "past your bedtime" too.

The problem is that the words are muffled. So folks hear what they think they should be (or want to be) hearing. I'll take the word of the journalists that were at the game who said they heard "past your bedtime."

sporthenry
02-08-2013, 12:42 PM
I watched it and couldn't really tell for sure if he made contact. If he did, it wasn't very solid contact and Mason certainly sold it. According to the announcers, it's an automatic flagrant foul if you make contact with your defender as a result of swinging your upper body wildly. I didn't think it was that "wild;" Howell was basically pivoting in order to drive to his right. Certainly no intent to injure or anything like that. He did gain an advantage by swinging his elbows, so in that sense it should be a foul, but I'm pretty sure if that type of call had been made against us we'd be complaining about it. At that point State was on a mini-run and still had only a small chance at coming back, but the fifth foul plus the technical all but squelched even that small chance that they had.

Doesn't have to be "wild" to get the call.


In summary, contact with an elbow that occurs above the shoulders of an opponent when the elbows are not swung excessively per 4-36.7.a is a flagrant 1 personal foul and results in two free throws and the ball awarded to the offended team

This is a rule change which is getting some publicity but nobody is talking about the implications. This is pretty much trying to change the whole play. They don't really want anyone swinging their elbows with the ball. They seemingly want the ball to be ripped through the triple threat position in this situation.

So pretty much any contact with the elbow to the head is a flagrant 1. And excessive contact (which is most easily defined as the elbows swinging faster than the hips) is a flagrant 2.

PSurprise
02-08-2013, 12:43 PM
I'm really getting excited about this team this year. I think if the team can gel after Ryan returns (hopefully soon), I think we've got a real good shot at going a long way in the tournament. I think Amile has gotten a lot more confident (and better), which will only benefit us in crunch in March (and hopefully April) games. Throw in a healthy Josh for a few minutes to spell the other bigs, and we've got some dangerous weapons. My only concern is that Ryan has enough time to get back to his usual form and fitness come tournament time.

Channing
02-08-2013, 12:44 PM
I watched it and couldn't really tell for sure if he made contact. If he did, it wasn't very solid contact and Mason certainly sold it. According to the announcers, it's an automatic flagrant foul if you make contact with your defender as a result of swinging your upper body wildly. I didn't think it was that "wild;" Howell was basically pivoting in order to drive to his right. Certainly no intent to injure or anything like that. He did gain an advantage by swinging his elbows, so in that sense it should be a foul, but I'm pretty sure if that type of call had been made against us we'd be complaining about it. At that point State was on a mini-run and still had only a small chance at coming back, but the fifth foul plus the technical all but squelched even that small chance that they had.

I don't know about you, but my nose is pretty darn sensitive. The rule is that you can't swing your elbows faster than you move your hips and Howell did that. From the replay, it looked like his elbow came right across Mason's nose, which would be enough to temporarily stun just about anyone. It was good D by Mason and Howell should have known better than to clear out. The "smart basketball move is to sweep the ball from left to right with authority if you need to make room.

CDu
02-08-2013, 12:44 PM
Good game (didn't get to watch it Was at work) you guys played at home well. Only gripe is i didn't see Howell connect to mason on that last foul, but it is what it is..

Well, if you didn't get to watch the game, how would you have possibly seen Howell commit the foul?

He made contact with the elbow sweeping across Mason's face. Did he do it intentionally? I highly doubt it. But that's irrelevant. The rule is the rule. Swing the elbow and make contact with the face and it's a flagrant.


Also.. the "how's your grandma" chant was... less than. and that's all that needs to be said about that.

As has been noted numerous times, it is unclear whether that chant ever occurred. Nearly everyone who was in the gym said it didn't occur. And the audio evidence is certainly not conclusive either way.

CDu
02-08-2013, 12:47 PM
Doesn't have to be "wild" to get the call.



This is a rule change which is getting some publicity but nobody is talking about the implications. This is pretty much trying to change the whole play. They don't really want anyone swinging their elbows with the ball. They seemingly want the ball to be ripped through the triple threat position in this situation.

So pretty much any contact with the elbow to the head is a flagrant 1. And excessive contact (which is most easily defined as the elbows swinging faster than the hips) is a flagrant 2.

Bingo. Folks saying the call was wrong clearly aren't aware of the rules on this type of play. It was a fairly straightforward call based on the rules.

Now, one can certainly question whether the rule is appropriate (I think it's a bit excessive for inadvertent contact). But given that the rule is the rule, there should be no argument about the call last night.

jimsumner
02-08-2013, 01:12 PM
Bingo. Folks saying the call was wrong clearly aren't aware of the rules on this type of play. It was a fairly straightforward call based on the rules.

Now, one can certainly question whether the rule is appropriate (I think it's a bit excessive for inadvertent contact). But given that the rule is the rule, there should be no argument about the call last night.

I was about 30 feet from Howell's 5th foul and had great sight-lines. No question that Howell's elbow made contact with Plumlee's face.

UrinalCake
02-08-2013, 01:51 PM
Bingo. Folks saying the call was wrong clearly aren't aware of the rules on this type of play. It was a fairly straightforward call based on the rules.

Now, one can certainly question whether the rule is appropriate (I think it's a bit excessive for inadvertent contact). But given that the rule is the rule, there should be no argument about the call last night.

Ok, that makes sense. The call was definitely correct then. If I were in charge of the world, or at least the basketball part of it, I'd probably change that rule to make it a foul but not a technical/flagrant-1. In this case I guess it didn't make a huge difference, as the biggest impact was it being Howell's fifth. But that's a pretty big penalty for inadvertent contact.

DukieInBrasil
02-08-2013, 01:51 PM
I watched it and couldn't really tell for sure if he made contact. If he did, it wasn't very solid contact and Mason certainly sold it. According to the announcers, it's an automatic flagrant foul if you make contact with your defender as a result of swinging your upper body wildly. I didn't think it was that "wild;" Howell was basically pivoting in order to drive to his right. Certainly no intent to injure or anything like that. He did gain an advantage by swinging his elbows, so in that sense it should be a foul, but I'm pretty sure if that type of call had been made against us we'd be complaining about it. At that point State was on a mini-run and still had only a small chance at coming back, but the fifth foul plus the technical all but squelched even that small chance that they had.

Howell certainly made contact with Mason's face, and since Mason was in proper defensive position, that means that Howell moved his elbows out of his own space into Mason's and made contact. Undoubtedly the right call.

One thing i would like to point out about Seth Curry's play of late: for the year Seth now has a positive a:to. As of the beginning of ACC play Seth's a:to was nearly 1:2 and now it's a shade better than 1:1. This is due almost entirely to Seth actually dishing out assists now, but he has also cut down on the turns slightly. Earlier in the year Seth was not assisting scores very well, whether it was due to poor pass selection, selfishness or simply a change in the way we run our offense, Seth has made an adjustment and is actually enhancing his offensive value by virtue of effective passing. So kudos to Seth for maintaining a very high level of efficiency with his shooting and at the same time distributing the ball better. While on the assising scores note, Tyler dished out 6 last night vs 1 turn, so despite a very quiet night scoring the ball, TT had a noticeably positive impact on the game.

Another note: Murph had as many FT attempts last night as he had the entire season prior.

Another 'nother note: Marshall collected a rebound in his 20 seconds on the court when K took Mason out so that his star player could get some adoration from the crowd. That works out to about 120 rebounds per 40 minutes, the kid is a frickin' rebounding machine!

Li_Duke
02-08-2013, 02:04 PM
Another 'nother note: Marshall collected a rebound in his 20 seconds on the court when K took Mason out so that his star player could get some adoration from the crowd. That works out to about 120 rebounds per 40 minutes, the kid is a frickin' rebounding machine!

I love your optimism, DukieInBrasil! A pessimist would say that works out to about 0 points per 40 minutes, the kid can't score at all! :)

Kedsy
02-08-2013, 02:16 PM
Another 'nother note: Marshall collected a rebound in his 20 seconds on the court when K took Mason out so that his star player could get some adoration from the crowd. That works out to about 120 rebounds per 40 minutes, the kid is a frickin' rebounding machine!

Sorry to burst your bubble but Marshall also had a short stint in the first half so he played 54 seconds overall. That only comes out to 44.4 rebounds per 40 minutes. ;)

For the season, however, he only averages 8 rebounds per 40 minutes. More positively, if you use the "advanced" stat, his defensive rebounding percentage of 15.1% is 2nd best on the team behind his brother. Mason has a defensive rebounding percentage of 23.9%, but his freshman defensive rebounding pct was exactly 15.1% (albeit in a lot more minutes than Marshall is getting). Our best offensive rebounder is Amile, at 13.6%. Mason's offensive rebounding percentage is 10.5%, and Marshall's is 6.7%.

oldnavy
02-08-2013, 02:16 PM
I was about 30 feet from Howell's 5th foul and had great sight-lines. No question that Howell's elbow made contact with Plumlee's face.

No doubt he made contact. It wasn't bone breaking contact or even bruising contact, but if you get punched or elbowed on the nose - most likely you are going to flinch and jerk back.

Kind of the same principle where my reaction to static electricty causes me to hurt myself worse than the shock itself.

CDu
02-08-2013, 02:37 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but Marshall also had a short stint in the first half so he played 54 seconds overall. That only comes out to 44.4 rebounds per 40 minutes. ;)

For the season, however, he only averages 8 rebounds per 40 minutes. More positively, if you use the "advanced" stat, his defensive rebounding percentage of 15.1% is 2nd best on the team behind his brother. Mason has a defensive rebounding percentage of 23.9%, but his freshman defensive rebounding pct was exactly 15.1% (albeit in a lot more minutes than Marshall is getting). Our best offensive rebounder is Amile, at 13.6%. Mason's offensive rebounding percentage is 10.5%, and Marshall's is 6.7%.

And in his true freshman season rather than his redshirt freshman season. Perhaps that won't end up mattering, and that Marshall will have a somewhat similar career arc (just a year delayed). Wouldn't that be nice? Not holding my breathe, but wouldn't that be nice?

ncexnyc
02-08-2013, 05:32 PM
Do my eyes deceive me? People are actually complaining about a 98 to 85 win over State. Say it ain't so Joe.

Love the quick starts we've had the past two games. I'll take this over the tentative starts we had early on.

The Howell call was a tough one to take, but I prefer the rule as it is. It eliminates the refs making a judgement call and removes any possibility that the fans influence a ruling.

Great all around effort and we kept our hopes alive for catching or passing Miami. This next game will tell us just how good we are. Do we come out flat and showing an emotional letdown, or do we take care of business, with guns blazing and the game over by the end of the first half?

Indoor66
02-08-2013, 05:35 PM
Gotta love twitter.

Yeah, Twits twitter. The world in 140 characters!

CDu
02-08-2013, 05:57 PM
Ok, that makes sense. The call was definitely correct then. If I were in charge of the world, or at least the basketball part of it, I'd probably change that rule to make it a foul but not a technical/flagrant-1. In this case I guess it didn't make a huge difference, as the biggest impact was it being Howell's fifth. But that's a pretty big penalty for inadvertent contact.

Totally agree. I get what college basketball is trying to do with the rule, but I think it's a bit too far. That was definitely a foul (and as you said, the key was that it fouled Howell out), but shouldn't have been a 2-shot + ball penalty. In this case, the rule exceeded the severity of the action.

Indoor66
02-08-2013, 06:05 PM
Totally agree. I get what college basketball is trying to do with the rule, but I think it's a bit too far. That was definitely a foul (and as you said, the key was that it fouled Howell out), but shouldn't have been a 2-shot + ball penalty. In this case, the rule exceeded the severity of the action.

The rule is a fine example of the concept that "Hard cases make bad law." There is a need for the flagrant foul - 1 and 2 - concept in basketball. Play gets too rough. But when such a rule is, essentially, inflexible and arbitrary, it results in some near rediculous results.

sporthenry
02-08-2013, 06:20 PM
The rule is a fine example of the concept that "Hard cases make bad law." There is a need for the flagrant foul - 1 and 2 - concept in basketball. Play gets too rough. But when such a rule is, essentially, inflexible and arbitrary, it results in some near rediculous results.

Well, I don't think this rule would be any different with a flagrant 1 or flagrant 2. Flagrant 1 is just the "intentional foul" renamed with a few more fouls that fall under it. They could just make it a technical foul and it would carry the same weight.

I'm not sure if I agree with the rule, but it reminds me a lot like the NFL's recent changes. It seems clear they want to get rid of this play all together. And this would seem like an efficient way to do that.

Newton_14
02-08-2013, 08:12 PM
Wow, I can't believe you guys. From the very moment it happened, I knew the first thing I would comment on was The Dunk. Murphy's dunk was just sick, and brought down the house just like many of G's dunks did when he was roaming Cameron not so long ago. That was a huge lift to the team and hopefully to Murphy's confidence moving forward. 7 pages, and I remember 2 or 3 references to it, the first by Native on like page 4 of the thread? None of you guys got excited by that? Also, to continue on a Murphy theme, on his first defensive possession, he played aggressive and solid defensive on Leslie, resulting in a turnover by State. As Alex turned to head up court, the bench was going nuts and K stepped out on the floor and slapped hands with him, in much the same manner as he did with Nolan in the Baylor game. Alex had a solid game backing up Amile at the 4 spot last night, and the team definitely needed it.

It was a crazy game. I am in the camp of it being a great win by Duke. How often we forget the little things when assessing the teams play. Last night was one to cheer and feel good about, not one to gripe and complain about. Duke had 8 available players, only 7 of which played meaningful minutes, and 1 of the 7 is on a bum leg and almost never practices or runs sprints for conditioning. They expended a lot of energy in that 58 point first half, and dealt with foul trouble all night. Quinn with 2 early, Tyler with 2 early, Rasheed with 2, and Seth with 2. The second half was played by a fatigued Duke team in foul trouble, against an opponent with a high powered offense even w/o Brown. K did the smart thing by "managing the game" and shortening the game. They still were aggressive the first 8 to 10 minutes or so of the 2nd Half, but the shots just stopped falling from the perimeter. The constants on offense were Mason and Quinn. They were the two that managed to sustain a high level of play on offense throughout the night. Mason was just a beast. No hesitation at all in attacking both Howell and Leslie, and scoring at will on both. Including making his free throws.

I will say the 2nd Half was one of the absolute worst officiating I have seen in a long time. Both ways. They called the game totally different in the 2nd half than the first. By midway of the 2nd Half, players on both teams had no idea what was going to be a foul verses what was not. The two calls on Amile in 1 second were horrible. Yet TJ Warren pushed Seth and Rasheed out of the way 3 or 4 times with his left hand while bull rushing the rim, with no call. Then there would be a touch foul on Wood or Seth or Quinn. Mason was whistled for 4 fouls in like 9 minutes or something. It made the game so choppy it was painful to watch at times.

K went full Stall Ball after the under 8 timeout, and as someone else mentioned snuck in another timeout just before that. The Duke players were gassed at that point. Despite how it looked though, State never got closer than 9, and I never felt like the outcome was threatened. Mason's block on Leslie was the nail in the coffin and ended any threat.

Very solid win by a team starting to settle in on a new identity w/o Ryan, and not having Josh only made it more difficult. The team defense is not nearly as good as with Ryan, but they are settling in nicely on offense. The fast starts are beautiful to watch.

I won't revisit the non-chant as I spoke on that in the other thread, but if you are looking for class, look no further than Seth Curry on the final possession. He had a free run to the basket for an easy score, but pulled it out and just dribbled out the clock. Put State or UNC in that exact situation against Duke, and it's a highlight reel dunk to get to 100 and rub salt in the wound. But, alas, the "journalist" won't write about that, won't tweet it, won't mention it. It will be chant-gate, the refs fouling out Howell with a flagrant, and then fouling out Leslie when Quinn clearly hit Leslie in the hands with his chest, just so Duke could win in Cameron. That will be the mantra.

One final thought. I always admit when I am wrong. Lewis is a player. In the limited PT he has gotten prior to Virginia he did struggle, and did not look ready for ACC level play at all. Last night he looked like he belonged and will be a great 4 year player for State. Would still rather face 40 minutes of him than Brown, but he played well. Without him last night this is a 40 point laugher from opening tip to final buzzer. I tip my hat to the kid.

devildeac
02-09-2013, 07:45 AM
Now, as for other chants during the game, I quote Native, who, BTW, loves his grandma:

"Now, the "Wood Is Soft" chant, that was all us. :D"

Well done, again, young man!

Furniture
02-09-2013, 07:52 AM
Newton. I agree completely about the Murphy dunk. Brilliant! I jumped up from the coach! For me it was one of the best play's of the game!

moonpie23
02-09-2013, 08:16 AM
my son sam "jumped" out of his chair and said, "WOW! JUST LIKE KYLE SINGLER!"

Furniture
02-09-2013, 08:31 AM
my son sam "jumped" out of his chair and said, "WOW! JUST LIKE KYLE SINGLER!"

I thought the same thing.

noyac
02-09-2013, 09:10 AM
31673165

3166

oldnavy
02-09-2013, 10:08 AM
31673165

3166

I CANT BELIEVE IT!!! WHAT IS THE ACC GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS OUTRAGEOUS BEHAVIOR!! NCSU SHOULD SUSPEND HIM FOR THE SEASON RIGHT NOW!!

Seriously, not the first time I have seen a player do this in Cameron.... my real reaction is to chuckle... Howell was frustrated and IF he is giving the finger to the crowd it just reflects that he was angry at the moment.

No big deal to me.... I have done much worse in my day.

freshmanjs
02-09-2013, 10:12 AM
31673165

3166

i think it's great. love to see a very good player having such a frustrating experience at CIS