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View Full Version : Which ACC player would you take on this year's Duke team?



FerryFor50
02-05-2013, 08:04 PM
I was thinking the other day... if you could take any ACC player and put him on this year's Duke team, who would you pick and why?

Doesn't mean you'd replace one of our guys...

I'd take Kenny Kadji. Long, athletic, shot blocker, good perimeter threat, plays hard. Would be a great complement to Mason and would open the floor up similarly to Kelly. Would REALLY help right now with Kelly hurt.

Who would you take?

cptnflash
02-05-2013, 08:26 PM
Well let's see...

Lorenzo Brown is the best point guard in the ACC, so I'd take him (minus the sprained ankle, of course). He's basically Quinn plus 5 inches of height, with more experience. And I'd take Howell - it would be pretty close between him and Mason as to who would start (I expect a healthy dose of derisive responses for that assessment). While we're on the subject of NC State, I'd take Scott Wood at a 3-point shooter off the bench. Wouldn't start him ahead of Seth though, because he can't drive or get his own shot, which Seth can do. I have zero interest in CJ Leslie, who is probably State's 4th most important player (much as H. Barnes was to UNC last year).

Would take Kadji from Miami as a sub for Ryan, but wouldn't take him if Ryan was healthy.

If he hadn't chosen to go to UNC, I would take Bullock over Rasheed. But voluntarily becoming a Tar Heel shows a clear lack of judgment on his part, which more than offsets his obvious physical gifts and basketball talent. Eric Green could obviously play the 3 for us this year, but somehow I'd still rather have Rasheed.

Joe Harris from Virginia would be a great backup small forward off the bench for us.

After that.. not sure I'd take anyone. Okaro White or Devin Booker could be our backup 4, Alex Len could be our backup 5, after that I'll pass.

Phoenix22
02-05-2013, 08:31 PM
Kadji and Wood.

jipops
02-05-2013, 09:04 PM
Ryan Kelly.

mo.st.dukie
02-05-2013, 09:07 PM
Travis McKie would be my first choice, Kenny Kadji my second choice. I really like McKie's game and at 6'7 220 he would help defensively and on the boards (averaging 7.9 rpg this year). He would be a defensive nightmare with K as his coach.

Newton_14
02-05-2013, 09:21 PM
Well let's see...

Lorenzo Brown is the best point guard in the ACC, so I'd take him (minus the sprained ankle, of course). He's basically Quinn plus 5 inches of height, with more experience. And I'd take Howell - it would be pretty close between him and Mason as to who would start (I expect a healthy dose of derisive responses for that assessment). While we're on the subject of NC State, I'd take Scott Wood at a 3-point shooter off the bench. Wouldn't start him ahead of Seth though, because he can't drive or get his own shot, which Seth can do. I have zero interest in CJ Leslie, who is probably State's 4th most important player (much as H. Barnes was to UNC last year).

Would take Kadji from Miami as a sub for Ryan, but wouldn't take him if Ryan was healthy.

If he hadn't chosen to go to UNC, I would take Bullock over Rasheed. But voluntarily becoming a Tar Heel shows a clear lack of judgment on his part, which more than offsets his obvious physical gifts and basketball talent. Eric Green could obviously play the 3 for us this year, but somehow I'd still rather have Rasheed.

Joe Harris from Virginia would be a great backup small forward off the bench for us.

After that.. not sure I'd take anyone. Okaro White or Devin Booker could be our backup 4, Alex Len could be our backup 5, after that I'll pass.

I would not swap Rasheed for two Reggie Bullocks. That is nuts. No way no how.

Like FerryFor50, right now I would take Kadji. Would not swap Mason for any other center in the league. Despite getting twice the attention that Howell gets, Mason has still put up better numbers against better competition.

If I could have just 1 player, I would take Kadji. If I could take two, I would take Kadji and TJ Warren. Warren could play the 3 or the 4.

Not trading Quinn for any of the other PG's in the league either. Brown is a weapon, but he can't pressure the ball as well as Quinn which is key to our defense, and he can't shoot as well as Quinn. Overall Brown is the better player mainly due to size and experience, but Quinn is closing the gap quickly.

cptnflash
02-05-2013, 09:39 PM
I would not swap Rasheed for two Reggie Bullocks. That is nuts. No way no how.

It's subjective, but clearly not nuts. Bullock is three inches taller, sports a 128 ORtg to Rasheed's 112, and is a better shooter: 43% on 3's, 50% on 2's, and 88% on FT's, to Rasheed's 41%/44%/77%. He's also a better rebounder (7%OR/12%DR to Rasheed's 2%OR/10%DR). They have comparable turnover rates, but Bullock's assist rate is much higher. Actually, now that I look at it more closely, it's not that subjective at all. Bullock is clearly the better player, at least this year.

Get over the fact that Bullock called Coach K "a rat" when he was an 18 year old high school senior - that has nothing to do with how good a basketball player he is.

FerryFor50
02-05-2013, 09:54 PM
It's subjective, but clearly not nuts. Bullock is three inches taller, sports a 128 ORtg to Rasheed's 112, and is a better shooter: 43% on 3's, 50% on 2's, and 88% on FT's, to Rasheed's 41%/44%/77%. He's also a better rebounder (7%OR/12%DR to Rasheed's 2%OR/10%DR). They have comparable turnover rates, but Bullock's assist rate is much higher. Actually, now that I look at it more closely, it's not that subjective at all. Bullock is clearly the better player, at least this year.

Get over the fact that Bullock called Coach K "a rat" when he was an 18 year old high school senior - that has nothing to do with how good a basketball player he is.

I'd still take Sheed. Better defender (95.4 DRTG for Bullock, 95.2 for Sulaimaon). Bullock is a product of UNC's system and gets more shots than Sulaimon in Duke's system. (10.6 shots, 5.8 3pt for Bullock vs 9.4 and 4.0 3pt for Sulaimon)

And despite being 6'7" Bullock only gets 5.8 boards. Not a great total.

FerryFor50
02-05-2013, 09:56 PM
I would not swap Rasheed for two Reggie Bullocks. That is nuts. No way no how.

Like FerryFor50, right now I would take Kadji. Would not swap Mason for any other center in the league. Despite getting twice the attention that Howell gets, Mason has still put up better numbers against better competition.

If I could have just 1 player, I would take Kadji. If I could take two, I would take Kadji and TJ Warren. Warren could play the 3 or the 4.

Not trading Quinn for any of the other PG's in the league either. Brown is a weapon, but he can't pressure the ball as well as Quinn which is key to our defense, and he can't shoot as well as Quinn. Overall Brown is the better player mainly due to size and experience, but Quinn is closing the gap quickly.

TJ Warren would be pretty awesome in a Duke uniform.

I also wouldn't trade Cook for Brown. Despite Brown's size and experience, he makes some bad decisions. And I don't think you can trade the chemistry and positivity that Cook brings.

cptnflash
02-05-2013, 10:05 PM
I'd still take Sheed. Better defender (95.4 DRTG for Bullock, 95.2 for Sulaimaon). Bullock is a product of UNC's system and gets more shots than Sulaimon in Duke's system. (10.6 shots, 5.8 3pt for Bullock vs 9.4 and 4.0 3pt for Sulaimon)

And despite being 6'7" Bullock only gets 5.8 boards. Not a great total.

Every stat that I cited was a rate stat, not a counting stat, so getting more shots because of a different system has nothing to do with it. And regardless of whether Bullock's rebounding is or isn't good for his height, it's still better than Rasheed's. The difference in DRtg is not statistically significant (0.2 points per 100 possessions). The difference in ORtg is overwhelming (16 points per 100 possessions).

I get that everyone on this board likes Rasheed better - so do I. But don't pretend that means he's a better basketball player this year than Reggie Bullock - the data just don't support that conclusion.

Newton_14
02-05-2013, 10:10 PM
It's subjective, but clearly not nuts. Bullock is three inches taller, sports a 128 ORtg to Rasheed's 112, and is a better shooter: 43% on 3's, 50% on 2's, and 88% on FT's, to Rasheed's 41%/44%/77%. He's also a better rebounder (7%OR/12%DR to Rasheed's 2%OR/10%DR). They have comparable turnover rates, but Bullock's assist rate is much higher. Actually, now that I look at it more closely, it's not that subjective at all. Bullock is clearly the better player, at least this year.

Get over the fact that Bullock called Coach K "a rat" when he was an 18 year old high school senior - that has nothing to do with how good a basketball player he is.

It has nothing to do with any comments Bullock made. I would not trade Rasheed for Bullock. Despite the difference in height, I believe Rasheed brings more to the table than Bullock.

Bullock is by far the best player on UNC's team, and is great as a spot up shooter. Rasheed is a better ball handler, defender, and is much quicker.

FerryFor50
02-05-2013, 10:12 PM
Every stat that I cited was a rate stat, not a counting stat, so getting more shots because of a different system has nothing to do with it. And regardless of whether Bullock's rebounding is or isn't good for his height, it's still better than Rasheed's.

I get that everyone on this board likes Rasheed better - so do I. But don't pretend that means he's a better basketball player this year than Reggie Bullock - the data just don't support that conclusion.

It's all opinion. I don't think rating stats or flat statistics conclusively say that Bullock is a better player. Regardless, the exercise was "which player would you add" not "which Duke player would you replace."

I don't think the gap between Bullock and Sulaimon is great enough, nor do I think that Bullock fills some pressing need. Obviously, I think a 6'11" stretch 4 that can block shots, rebound, spell Mason, jump out of the gym and knock down 3s would be more valuable.

vick
02-05-2013, 10:24 PM
Well let's see...

Lorenzo Brown is the best point guard in the ACC, so I'd take him (minus the sprained ankle, of course). He's basically Quinn plus 5 inches of height, with more experience. And I'd take Howell - it would be pretty close between him and Mason as to who would start (I expect a healthy dose of derisive responses for that assessment). While we're on the subject of NC State, I'd take Scott Wood at a 3-point shooter off the bench. Wouldn't start him ahead of Seth though, because he can't drive or get his own shot, which Seth can do. I have zero interest in CJ Leslie, who is probably State's 4th most important player (much as H. Barnes was to UNC last year).

Would take Kadji from Miami as a sub for Ryan, but wouldn't take him if Ryan was healthy.

If he hadn't chosen to go to UNC, I would take Bullock over Rasheed. But voluntarily becoming a Tar Heel shows a clear lack of judgment on his part, which more than offsets his obvious physical gifts and basketball talent. Eric Green could obviously play the 3 for us this year, but somehow I'd still rather have Rasheed.

Joe Harris from Virginia would be a great backup small forward off the bench for us.

After that.. not sure I'd take anyone. Okaro White or Devin Booker could be our backup 4, Alex Len could be our backup 5, after that I'll pass.

Knowing that Kelly is hurt, I'd go with the consensus and pick Kadji. If I didn't know that, Harris would be my choice, since we are pretty thin at guard--four on the roster, and K likes to start three. Harris would give us a lot of flexibility--a Quinn-Seth-Harris or Quinn-Rasheed-Harris backcourt looks pretty good to me. I like Tyler's hustle but I get pretty scared when Rasheed is out or has foul trouble, as Quinn-Seth-Tyler is a really short combination, but with Harris it seems like we could pretty much always have at least three perimeter threats, and four with Kelly, on the floor pretty much any time we want, which would keep the paint open for Mason.

I think Virginia's pace leads to their players being a bit underrated--Harris has averaged 15.3 PPG on 0.57 eFG. He's has a higher defensive rebounding percentage than Rasheed or even Amile (12.7% vs. 10.2%/12.5%). Just as a thought, if UVa played at UNC's pace, and Harris was able to keep up the same efficiency, as I think he could (pace and efficiency are generally mostly uncorrelated), he'd be at 18.6/5.1/2.9 points/rebounds/assists, and doing it efficiently. Sounds good to me.

davekay1971
02-05-2013, 10:31 PM
Looking first at Duke's needs, especially with Ryan out...

Okay, backing up, we're a pretty complete team. We don't really need a PG or even backup PG (let's be honest guys, Tyler Thornton is a pretty nice luxury to have as a backup PG). We've got the ACC's best shooting guard in Seth, and I won't hear any arguments on that. To do what he's doing on a bum leg and a kickstand and no practice is ridiculous. Rasheed is a fantastic shooting guard/wing with a lot less ups-and-downs than you'd expect from a freshman. We have one of the best centers in the nation, much less the ACC.

So, right now, we're lacking three things: (1) depth in the middle (Marshall's going to be very good, but there is a steep drop-off between Mason and Marshall, so we suffer when Mason's in foul trouble); (2) an really strong guy at the 4 (get better Ryan); (3) a classic 3 (Alex, I was hoping you'd be ready this year...and you're getting better...so keep working, because you'll be a good one).

Ranking those 3 in importance, I'd put the strong guy at the 4 as the biggest need. Rasheed's doing a good job for us at the 3 - he's big enough and a good enough defender to check most college 3s, and he serves that role for us nicely on offense as a slasher/wing. And Mason's proven that he can stay on court enough that Marshall's can grow with spot minutes.

Looking at it in that way I'd take: Kadji - he can fill the role of the stretch 4 very nicely, doing some of the things for us that Ryan did, particularly opening the offense and giving Mase room in the lane. If Ryan were healthy I'd take no one - we're the best team in the nation with Ryan, and you can't improve on that.

This is a very different question than "who's your favorite non-Duke player" or "who's the best non-Duke player".

My favorite non-Duke player is Richard Howell. The best non-Duke player is, imho, Lorenzo Brown. But, for the reasons I mentioned, neither is Duke's biggest need right now.

davekay1971
02-05-2013, 10:36 PM
Rasheed is a better ball handler, defender, and is much quicker.

Bingo. I thought of Bullock, but Bullock adds only another good 3 point shooter (which is nice) at the cost that he would be our weakest defender. He'd be on the bench behind Rasheed because Rasheed is a much, much better defender and can get into the lane better, even though Bullock's clearly a better spot-up shooter. If you put a gun to my head and made me take a Tarheel, it'd be PJ Hairston. Having Cook at the point and Sulaimon and PJ Hairston on the wings (when Seth is resting his gimpy leg) would torture opposing defenses.