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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 79, FSU 60 Post-Game Thread



pfrduke
02-02-2013, 02:57 PM
Good win! Thoughts here.

DBFAN
02-02-2013, 03:02 PM
Boys are starting to believe they can play and win without Kelly. That win in Winston Salem was huge for their confidence. Now lets hope State can muddle up the standings

Utley
02-02-2013, 03:02 PM
Bottle it. Pure watching pleasure. Cook was incredible - we're not going to lose too many games when he is on. Loved the defense too.

As I said in the in-game - I hope this is a February Saturday breakthrough like we saw in the MD game in 2010 - I seem to recall things ending nicely that year.

Les Grossman
02-02-2013, 03:02 PM
Stellar backcourt play. QC is my MOTM, but Curry and RS were also excellent.
Is Seth a legit NPOY candidate? I think he is.

pfrduke
02-02-2013, 03:02 PM
Interesting note about the game - it's the biggest (by margin) road victory for an ACC team yet this season, beating Virginia's 16-point win at Virginia Tech. Duke, UVA, Miami, UNC, and BC are the only ACC schools with double-digit road wins so far.

Utley
02-02-2013, 03:03 PM
Stellar backcourt play. QC is my MOTM, but Curry and RS were also excellent.
Is Seth a legit NPOY candidate? I think he is.

It's just amazing that he is having this kind of year without practicing. So happy for Seth.

Native
02-02-2013, 03:04 PM
We let off the throttle way, way too much in the second half, IMO. Other than that, no complaints. Great win and the outcome was never in doubt. Let's get ready to get the Pack back!

uh_no
02-02-2013, 03:07 PM
We let off the throttle way, way too much in the second half, IMO. Other than that, no complaints. Great win and the outcome was never in doubt. Let's get ready to get the Pack back!

after building an 18-2 lead, we only outscored them by 4 for the rest of the half, and got outscored by 1 in the second half giving up 38 (!!) points.

yeah a lot of it was garbage time, but after the initial run, we played them even for the rest of the game....they let up BIG time, and it was ugly.

points to how thin we are at bench...the lineup with marshall alex and josh in was honestly, horrid...i think they had 3 shot clock violations (without getting reasonable shots).

we have a great starting lineup (and kelly obviosuly helps a lot) but if someone gets in foul trouble, I don't think we have the bench where a random guy could step up and have a big game.

nyesq83
02-02-2013, 03:08 PM
We let off the throttle way, way too much in the second half, IMO. Other than that, no complaints. Great win and the outcome was never in doubt. Let's get ready to get the Pack back!


Team win! 5 fingers are a fist but team wins are fun for all.

tbyers11
02-02-2013, 03:09 PM
We let off the throttle way, way too much in the second half, IMO. Other than that, no complaints. Great win and the outcome was never in doubt. Let's get ready to get the Pack back!

Really? Until the last 5 minutes I was very impressed by our ability to keep the pressure on. We had a 20 pt lead at half and FSU never got the lead below 20 until 20 seconds were left. Did we expect to win the 2nd half by 20 as well? With the multitude of different lineups played I thought the fact that we were up by ~25 most of the 2nd half was impressive. Anyway, great game. Great focus and defensive pressure early. Great 3 point shooting. When we win going away and Mason is basically not a factor it is a nice win.

Saratoga2
02-02-2013, 03:12 PM
Dominant win on the road. Fsu has big people but not experienced and kind of slow. We were too quick for them and executed extremely well throughout. The players who were all extremely impressive in my opinion were

Curry who shot extremely well and to do that got himself open and only took good shots. Another 20+ game and he sat out a fair amount at the end.
Cook had a great game. His ball control was excellent, he shot well and played excellent defense. He is a tough kid to boot.
Sulaiman had another excellent game on offense and his defense was also really inspired this afternoon.
Jefferson shows that he really belongs as a starter. With a few exceptions his reliability handling the ball playing defense and putting himself into scoring positions are starter quality.
Mason played well but his early fouls got him seated. I don't know if the strategy of him backing off on defense is good for the team. When he plays hard, his athleticism can really intimidate scorers but he isn't being used in that way often. Even with the current strategy, he still gets calls against him and can disappear on defense.

On the down side, I think we saw why Marshall and to some extend Alex are not getting a lot of burn. Pretty ineffective today on all parts of the game. I also though that for a Junior, Josh didn't play that well. He fouled out and is very little of a scoring threat while only defending marginally these days.

That leaves only Thornton to talk about and I thought he had his usual solid game. Not much of a scoring threat but a good guy to have as a PG backup and reliable defender.

davekay1971
02-02-2013, 03:14 PM
Funny. What I saw was Duke jump out to an early lead, establish a very solid halftime lead, build on that lead in the early minutes of the 2nd half, killing any hope FSU had of making a comeback, and then cruise to a win. Guess it's all how you look at it.

Great road win. Big challenge coming to Cameron next...

roywhite
02-02-2013, 03:15 PM
Interesting note about the game - it's the biggest (by margin) road victory for an ACC team yet this season, beating Virginia's 16-point win at Virginia Tech. Duke, UVA, Miami, UNC, and BC are the only ACC schools with double-digit road wins so far.

And it wasn't even as close as the final score indicates.

Really fine performance by the team; Quinn was outstanding on both ends of the floor.

uh_no
02-02-2013, 03:16 PM
Dominant win on the road. Fsu has big people but not experienced and kind of slow. We were too quick for them and executed extremely well throughout. The players who were all extremely impressive in my opinion were

Curry who shot extremely well and to do that got himself open and only took good shots. Another 20+ game and he sat out a fair amount at the end.
Cook had a great game. His ball control was excellent, he shot well and played excellent defense. He is a tough kid to boot.
Sulaiman had another excellent game on offense and his defense was also really inspired this afternoon.
Jefferson shows that he really belongs as a starter. With a few exceptions his reliability handling the ball playing defense and putting himself into scoring positions are starter quality.
Mason played well but his early fouls got him seated. I don't know if the strategy of him backing off on defense is good for the team. When he plays hard, his athleticism can really intimidate scorers but he isn't being used in that way often. Even with the current strategy, he still gets calls against him and can disappear on defense.

On the down side, I think we saw why Marshall and to some extend Alex are not getting a lot of burn. Pretty ineffective today on all parts of the game. I also though that for a Junior, Josh didn't play that well. He fouled out and is very little of a scoring threat while only defending marginally these days.

That leaves only Thornton to talk about and I thought he had his usual solid game. Not much of a scoring threat but a good guy to have as a PG backup and reliable defender.

My only contention. Amile is fine, but gets pushed around against bigger guys. That wasn't a problem today or against, say maryland, but doesn't cut it against some of the stronger teams.

He needs a summer of bulk up before he'll be effective enough against those big guys for me to say he's starter quality.

That said, he's extremely talented and has done well for this team when he is able.

pfrduke
02-02-2013, 03:18 PM
after building an 18-2 lead, we only outscored them by 4 for the rest of the half, and got outscored by 1 in the second half giving up 38 (!!) points.

yeah a lot of it was garbage time, but after the initial run, we played them even for the rest of the game....they let up BIG time, and it was ugly.

points to how thin we are at bench...the lineup with marshall alex and josh in was honestly, horrid...i think they had 3 shot clock violations (without getting reasonable shots).

we have a great starting lineup (and kelly obviosuly helps a lot) but if someone gets in foul trouble, I don't think we have the bench where a random guy could step up and have a big game.

Of course, the closest the game ever got after halftime was 19 (which happened once before the final margin). We were outscoring them in the second half for about 19 of the 20 minutes.

On your last point, where are you counting Jefferson in that equation? He qualifies, I think, as someone who could step up and have a big game - 12 point/7 rebound performances are well within his reach.

sporthenry
02-02-2013, 03:21 PM
Funny. What I saw was Duke jump out to an early lead, establish a very solid halftime lead, build on that lead in the early minutes of the 2nd half, killing any hope FSU had of making a comeback, and then cruise to a win. Guess it's all how you look at it.

Great road win. Big challenge coming to Cameron next...

You aren't alone. Did a great job at keeping the crowd quiet at any chance of a run by FSU. You can't really expect Duke to play that well the whole game or FSU to play that poorly the whole game. Defense let up a bit but offense was working so well, it didn't matter much. With how well they scored, probably could have been 40 and looked up a few times surprised it was "only" 25 points but I'm sure K tried to dial back the fouling a bit to keep the clock running.

uh_no
02-02-2013, 03:22 PM
Of course, the closest the game ever got after halftime was 19 (which happened once before the final margin). We were outscoring them in the second half for about 19 of the 20 minutes.

On your last point, where are you counting Jefferson in that equation? He qualifies, I think, as someone who could step up and have a big game - 12 point/7 rebound performances are well within his reach.

apologize, the implication was with our current lineup, in which he is a starter....hence that kelly helps mitigate the fact somewhat by pushing amile back to the bench.

rocketeli
02-02-2013, 03:23 PM
A nice win. FSU isn't really that good this year, but as we know teams get up for Duke and historically FSU has played us really tough. It seems the team is making progress adjusting to LAK (life after Kelly) every game. The NC State game was the "Dean Smith game" where the extra effort and the new game plan for the other team gives a first game after boost, then we were really discombobulated against Miami (which unfortunately was also a very good team playing on their home court), followed by improvement in each subsequent game. It rarely happens that a team outscores another team by 20 points in each half, as shooting percentages and calls etc regress to the mean, and I thought the team did a great job of keeping the pressure on and playing with focus with a big lead--until we started playing the less experienced subs we actually gained about 6-7 points over the first 3/4 of the half.

roywhite
02-02-2013, 03:42 PM
Duke 79 -- FSU 60 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=206232060)

So much to like.

Curry, Cook, and Sheed each had excellent days; they shot well, defended, and combined for 12 assists and only 2 turnovers.
Amile had a very nice stat line -- 4-4 FG, 11 points, and *0* fouls in 29 minutes
Michael Snaer ended up with 7 points on 3-13 shooting

sagegrouse
02-02-2013, 03:45 PM
after building an 18-2 lead, we only outscored them by 4 for the rest of the half, and got outscored by 1 in the second half giving up 38 (!!) points.

yeah a lot of it was garbage time, but after the initial run, we played them even for the rest of the game....they let up BIG time, and it was ugly.

points to how thin we are at bench...the lineup with marshall alex and josh in was honestly, horrid...i think they had 3 shot clock violations (without getting reasonable shots).

we have a great starting lineup (and kelly obviosuly helps a lot) but if someone gets in foul trouble, I don't think we have the bench where a random guy could step up and have a big game.

Your post reminds me that "every silver lining has a cloud." This was a blowout on the road -- a 26-point margin before garbage time (credit: Chick Hearn), and I would not read anything at all into our play the last few minutes. Seth Curry, our most productive player today, rested through much of the second half. Mason was ready to play and had only two fouls.

K was eager to give Marshall and Alex some minutes, presumably in the hope that the experience would help down the road. And maybe it will. But I agree with you that Duke the last three minutes or so was, in fact, ugly.

sagegrouse

roywhite
02-02-2013, 03:49 PM
Your post reminds me that "every silver lining has a cloud." This was a blowout on the road -- a 26-point margin before garbage time (credit: Chick Hearn), and I would not read anything at all into our play the last few minutes. Seth Curry, our most productive player today, rested through much of the second half. Mason was ready to play and had only two fouls.

K was eager to give Marshall and Alex some minutes, presumably in the hope that the experience would help down the road. And maybe it will. But I agree with you that Duke the last three minutes or so was, in fact, ugly.
sagegrouse

And if the starters had been left in longer, what are the chances we might have seen at least a few posts like:
Why doesn't K play our back-ups, esp. when there's a good margin?
How can we develop our bench if they don't get any game time?

NashvilleDevil
02-02-2013, 03:50 PM
And if the starters had been left in longer, what are the chances we might have seen at least a few posts like:
Why doesn't K play our back-ups, esp. in close games?
How can we develop our bench if they don't get any game time?

I'd say the chances were the same as people complaining about a blow out win on the road.

dyedwab
02-02-2013, 03:51 PM
Duke 79 -- FSU 60 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=206232060)

So much to like.

Curry, Cook, and Sheed each had excellent days; they shot well, defended, and combined for 12 assists and only 2 turnovers.
Amile had a very nice stat line -- 4-4 FG, 11 points, and *0* fouls in 29 minutes
Michael Snaer ended up with 7 points on 3-13 shooting

4 players in double figures and not one of them named Mason Plumlee? That's about a surprising a line from the box score as anything.

I was worried that Miami was a potential season changing event, shattering our confidence going forward. Clearly, it wasn't. Dominant win in a road venue in which we have struggled. That's a good day.

wilko
02-02-2013, 03:53 PM
And if the starters had been left in longer, what are the chances we might have seen at least a few posts like:
Why doesn't K play our back-ups, esp. when there's a good margin?
How can we develop our bench if they don't get any game time?

The game was decided. Why risk FURTHER injury to Seth and Mason?
No point to it. Absolute right move.

dairedevil
02-02-2013, 04:16 PM
I had top watch the game on an old, small, non-hd tv in my mom's hospital room, so I couldn't tell a lot about individual performances. Who made Snaer a non-
factor?

mapei
02-02-2013, 04:16 PM
Duke looked fantastic today. I have zero complaints. I do always want us to keep increasing the margin in the second half, which we did somewhat, but almost always the margin closes a little instead, probably part because of strategy, part substitutions, and part that the opponent is a little better than the first-half margin indicates. Truth is that we were really good today. Great to watch.

roywhite
02-02-2013, 04:21 PM
I had top watch the game on an old, small, non-hd tv in my mom's hospital room, so I couldn't tell a lot about individual performances. Who made Snaer a non-
factor?

Primarily Rasheed guarded Snaer...I saw some times when Tyler Thornton checked him, and also did a nice job.

And Snaer himself didn't play with poise...got a "T" for kicking out at a Duke player, and forced some shots also.

-bdbd
02-02-2013, 04:36 PM
Great game all around for Duke. Funny that some folks are nit-picking faults in a 20 point blowout win on the road, against an opponent that has beaten us more than once in the last couple-few years. Just last night I was reading several posts in the pre-game thread voicing "serious concern" about this team not being "up" for FSU, and predicting defeat.

The two ealy fouls on MP2 had me worried, but we just came out of the gates firing on all cylinders, taking the crowd out early. And when you worried about FSU coming out of the break and quickly getting back into it, well then... POW, POW, we hit a couple of threes and many of the Seminole fans are heading to their cars with 18 minutes still to go... HA!

Several of us have commented on how "fragile" this team has looked since Ryan went out. Well, this is the sort of win that'll put a spring back into your step, and confidence into your shots moving forwaed. Am I the only one thinking that these guys have finally located, more or less, their post-Kelly identity?? Good to have some confidence heading into a tough little four game stretch now.

Great game guys!! :D


http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=330330052

Indoor66
02-02-2013, 04:44 PM
Duke looked fantastic today. I have zero complaints. I do always want us to keep increasing the margin in the second half, which we did somewhat, but almost always the margin closes a little instead, probably part because of strategy, part substitutions, and part that the opponent is a little better than the first-half margin indicates. Truth is that we were really good today. Great to watch.

K seems to want to beat teams, not humiliate them. We could have won by 50 if K had wanted to keep the dogs hunting. He has too much respect for Leonard Hamilton to allow that. We beat the H... out of them. No need to rub their noses in it.

Native
02-02-2013, 04:55 PM
What pleased me the most was coming out strong, especially on the road, especially in an arena that we've had some trouble in the past few seasons. A nice development that we are able to start strong (even without Ryan).

cptnflash
02-02-2013, 04:59 PM
Great defensive intensity for most of the first half, and obviously a lot of great perimeter shooting. Would have preferred a little bit more sustained effort in the 2nd half, but given how dead the building was it was understandably tough to maintain the energy level on the court. Been a while since we've had a comfortable lead wire to wire against a real team, so that part was certainly enjoyable. All in all, a solid effort.

TruBlu
02-02-2013, 05:01 PM
I had top watch the game on an old, small, non-hd tv in my mom's hospital room, so I couldn't tell a lot about individual performances. Who made Snaer a non-
factor?

Rasheed guarded Snaer for the most part.

Hope your mom is doing ok. Give her a big hug and "get well soon" from us.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-02-2013, 05:18 PM
Rasheed guarded Snaer for the most part.

Hope your mom is doing ok. Give her a big hug and "get well soon" from us.


I 2nd that TruBlu. Give her a big hug from the DBR...

I really think this year our defense will be as good as our offense. Seth, Sheed, and Quinn were hitting and it rubbed off on on our defense making their backcourt invisible. Hopefully they can consistently bring the intensity, but I really think our defense will be as good as our offense. Good win, it was great to see Quinn play so magnificently.

dairedevil
02-02-2013, 05:25 PM
Thanks-she is improving. Mom (class of '47) wanted to know if I had brought her "duke notebook" to her. She likes to keep track of all the fouls and makes notes on each game. A rout sure helps!

drcharl
02-02-2013, 05:35 PM
The solid team play today showed that the team has found a new identity without Ryan. It took a few games to develop this, but now there are a fixed and solid 5 starters that are getting better and better at playing together as a team.

nalakram
02-02-2013, 05:35 PM
Great game!

rthomas
02-02-2013, 05:39 PM
Primarily Rasheed guarded Snaer...I saw some times when Tyler Thornton checked him, and also did a nice job.

And Snaer himself didn't play with poise...got a "T" for kicking out at a Duke player, and forced some shots also.

I watched that call a couple times and thought that call was pretty wimpy.

oldnavy
02-02-2013, 05:45 PM
What pleased me the most was coming out strong, especially on the road, especially in an arena that we've had some trouble in the past few seasons. A nice development that we are able to start strong (even without Ryan).

YES, exactly! The focus was amazing and the intesity really never let up. We got sloppy at the end, but that is to be expected in a game where you have different lineups playing in a game situation that you really can't lose and are just trying to milk the clock down.

The surprise to me was, I thought we would win the game with Mason dominating their bigs, anything but! Now, I know that we will not shoot that great every game, but it was nice to see some shots fall in the state of Florida for a change!!

I think the Miami game is behind us and it seems to have refocused the guys a bit. So, there's my silver lining.

We have to beat NCSU this week IMO. We need to beat NCSU this week, IMO.... That will be a statement game IMO....

Miami has the inside track to the Regular Season championship it seems, they may slip, but they are pretty darn good. NCSU gave them a good shot, but just couldn't get over the hump. Maybe different with Brown, but the backup did pretty well. Reggie Johnson killed them, and we know what that is like dont we (last year at Cameron).

tbyers11
02-02-2013, 05:49 PM
I watched that call a couple times and thought that call was pretty wimpy.

I thought the T on Snaer was a good call. He stuck his leg out to kick/trip Josh. It was wimpy in the sense that it didn't affect Josh much. But, IMO, the intent was there so the call made sense.

hindugrass
02-02-2013, 07:29 PM
I thought the T on Snaer was a good call. He stuck his leg out to kick/trip Josh. It was wimpy in the sense that it didn't affect Josh much. But, IMO, the intent was there so the call made sense.

basically the same as the T on mason after the reverse follow dunk where he half-heartedly swiped at the ball.

this game was pretty much a clinic from start to finish on both sides of the ball. you folks finding things to complain about, well, i dunno, but it sure seems like you just prefer complaining to celebrating. doubt k is complaining about much.

DukieInBrasil
02-02-2013, 07:45 PM
Offered in support of Josh: I remember him having a tangible effect on the game. There was a stretch when he got a stick back and then received an assist for being around the rim and dunked it. Then he missed a couple of long jumpers (which i think is a play the team does not ever need), and that particular stretch of ball wasn't so great. Later in the game, he picked up a couple of blocks and was really playing solid interior D.
So, despite fouling out and a final shooting line of 2-6 FG and 1-2 FT, with just a rebound, i think Josh played his role quite well today. He made an impact on the game in brief spurts. Fouls are just a consequence of the way Josh plays the game, and he played more minutes tonight than he usually does.
I think that getting the ball to him while he's on his way to the rim is really the only time this team needs to look to get him the ball, getting him the ball for long distance jumpers is probably our worst offensive play.

Other players came off the bench and made contributions, in fact every reserve player made a difference in some way. However, both Murph and Marshall made more mistakes than contributions. They both seemed to be out of control/flail a lot on offense today. Tyler had very modest stats, except the 5:1 a:t, in addition to 1/1 FG and 2 rebounds, probably one of TT's most efficient games this year.

DukieInBrasil
02-02-2013, 07:57 PM
basically the same as the T on mason after the reverse follow dunk where he half-heartedly swiped at the ball.

this game was pretty much a clinic from start to finish on both sides of the ball. you folks finding things to complain about, well, i dunno, but it sure seems like you just prefer complaining to celebrating. doubt k is complaining about much.
Absolutely. I'm sure that the team is feeling pretty good about itself too. When the line-up at the end featured MP3-TT-Murph-Amile-Hairston, the offensive flow was pretty weak w/o any versatile threats on the floor. And then Josh fouled out, and Rasheed (?) came back in, but that group never established any flow either. I'm not sure that's something i'd really be concerned about, because each of those guys played their role within the entire first 35 minutes almost as well as they have played all year.
For anyone complaining about depth, i think having such good depth is what allowed for the lead to get so high that K put them all on the floor together to close out the game. There will never be a time when all of Mason, Curry, Cook, and Sulaimon will have fouled out, leaving only those guys remaining to close out a game. Au contraire, i think they played well as a group.

Newton_14
02-02-2013, 08:21 PM
I thought this was easily the best team defensive effort since losing Ryan. Good rotations, good positioning, good denial on the wings, and excellent ball pressure on the opposing PG most of the day. Offensively, it was our best shooting performance since losing Ryan as well. Interesting in that Wake chose to focus on the shooters and leave Mason space w/o double teams, and Mason responded with 32, and FSU chose to focus on Mason and hope we did not shoot well from deep. Duke successfully handled both strategies in road victories.

I disagree with those who thought this was not a complete game. Our guys never let FSU go on a run. Each time FSU got a little hot in the 2nd half, we answered with daggers. On one of those occasions, right after FSU hit a 3 to cut it from 24 to 21, Seth answered with a 3 from the corner, and Okaro White took it out of the net and slammed the ball to the floor in disgust.

The sloppy play in garbage time with under 5 to go was irrelevant to me. K could have left the starters in ala Miami, and let them keep pouring it on, or execute the delay before scoring, but as someone else mentioned, K has too much respect for Hamilton to do that.

A solid win on the road to keep Miami's lead to 2 games. Too bad State could not hang on to cut it to one. Miami's day is coming though. They can't keep catching so many breaks. They played Duke shortly after Ryan's injury, then State right after the Brown injury. They certainly looked mortal today against a depleted State team.

They will lose before arriving at Cameron, it's just a matter of when.

roywhite
02-02-2013, 08:22 PM
basically the same as the T on mason after the reverse follow dunk where he half-heartedly swiped at the ball.

this game was pretty much a clinic from start to finish on both sides of the ball. you folks finding things to complain about, well, i dunno, but it sure seems like you just prefer complaining to celebrating. doubt k is complaining about much.

Associated Press article: Curry, Cook Lead No. 5 Duke Past Florida State 79-60 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=206231860&DB_OEM_ID=4200)


Mike Krzyzewski was so impressed he wasn't sure which player he might praise for their effort...

"Our guys played a terrific basketball game," said Krzyewski. "It's tough to single out any one guy."

g-money
02-03-2013, 12:14 AM
...present quite a quandary for opposing coaches: Guard Mason straight up and watch him eat you alive in the post, or double him up and watch the guards rain threes. Add in Quinn's tremendous passing, and voila! - the result is a multi-dimensional offense that is truly a pleasure to watch. I just wish Mason would remember to set a few more picks every once in a while - isn't that all Duke big men know how to do?? :p

I also loved the all-around (i.e., defensive plus offensive) effort from Rasheed and Amile today - they're really starting to put it together.

Next step for our guys is to come out with the same "punch" against NCSt, which implicitly requires not getting overconfident after today's blowout.

gumbomoop
02-03-2013, 02:18 AM
Offered in support of Josh: I remember him having a tangible effect on the game. There was a stretch when he got a stick back and then received an assist for being around the rim and dunked it. Then he missed a couple of long jumpers (which i think is a play the team does not ever need), and that particular stretch of ball wasn't so great. Later in the game, he picked up a couple of blocks and was really playing solid interior D.
So, despite fouling out and a final shooting line of 2-6 FG and 1-2 FT, with just a rebound, i think Josh played his role quite well today. He made an impact on the game in brief spurts. Fouls are just a consequence of the way Josh plays the game, and he played more minutes tonight than he usually does.
I think that getting the ball to him while he's on his way to the rim is really the only time this team needs to look to get him the ball, getting him the ball for long distance jumpers is probably our worst offensive play.

Other players came off the bench and made contributions, in fact every reserve player made a difference in some way. However, both Murph and Marshall made more mistakes than contributions. They both seemed to be out of control/flail a lot on offense today. Tyler had very modest stats, except the 5:1 a:t, in addition to 1/1 FG and 2 rebounds, probably one of TT's most efficient games this year.

I agree with DIB's post here, pretty much every word, both the praise for Josh's contribution and the constructive criticism of Josh, Alex, and Marshall. Also agree with DIB's assessment of the modest but important contribution from Tyler.

I like DIB's details here, esp. re Josh. The reason I think this kind of analysis is so useful is that, with or without Ryan, Duke needs some contributions - maybe just a little, a few key plays, baskets, blocks, steals, hustle, smarts, assists, charge taken, rebounds, put-backs - from Josh and Tyler especially. But also, when Marshall and Alex are in, they don't have to do much [this year], but it's important that they not make mistake after mistake. Every play and possession counts in close games.

Yesterday, on K's Sat morn TV show [which others of you see almost a week earlier, maybe], the focus was on injuries, mostly Ryan's and Seth's. K said more than once something like, "We were a very good basketball team with Ryan. We're not sure how good we are without him." I don't see any reason to think Ryan will rejoin the team anytime soon, so how good Duke will be for the remainder of the ACC regular season will depend on consistently strong play from Mason, Seth, Quinn, and Rasheed, important contributions from Amile, Tyler, and Josh, and occasional "hold a lead" help from Marshall and Alex. I don't know how Seth is doing what he's doing, but it's remarkable. Remarkable. His confidence seems sky high in most games. I hope Rasheed continues to be very, very aggressive. I really hope Mason makes his FTs.

If K isn't sure just how good Duke is without Ryan, well, neither am I. But ....... Duke's remaining schedule is way tougher than Miami's, so I no longer think about the rest of the ACC regular season in terms of how Duke can wind up first in the conference. Therefore, I have a somewhat different take on Miami's tip-in win than does Newton_14:


A solid win on the road to keep Miami's lead to 2 games. Too bad State could not hang on to cut it to one. Miami's day is coming though.... They will lose before arriving at Cameron, it's just a matter of when.

Although I support State more than Miami, although I doubt Miami would have won had Brown played, and although I definitely don't much like Reggie's postgame antics, in practical terms [mine], I'm ok with Miami's win. For, at this moment, and keeping in mind K's statement that "Without Ryan, I don't know how good we are," I personally am strategizing on how to secure for Duke the #2 seed in the ACCT. That is, although I acknowledge Newton_14's prediction that Miami will not arrive in CIS undefeated in ACC play, I have to say, it will be tougher for Duke to be 13-2 as of March 1 than for Miami to be 15-0.

It seems to me that we may want to think - practically - that it's more likely that Duke is in a fight with UVa, NCSt, and UNC for ACC seed #2 than that Duke is fighting Miami for #1. Miami has won 5 road games. Miami's remaining road schedule is easier than Duke's. Miami is 8-0, Duke is 6-2. Sure, I hope Duke winds up 15-3 or 16-2, and either wins or ties for the ACC regular season topper. But I think I may not mind it if Miami beats both UVa and UNC in Miami. Sure, I'll hope Duke is 13-2 and Miami is 14-1 as of March 1. But I'll be hoping Miami fulfils Newton_14's prediction by losing @ FSU and/or Clemson rather than at home to UVa or UNC. I prefer that Miami beat UVa and UNC. Just as I'm ok with the win yesterday in Raleigh.

While I am always - always, every time, no exceptions - surprised when Duke loses, I know Duke won't win every game. So, while hoping Duke can top the ACC, I'll be watching every little blip in the standings, always with an eye not merely on Duke's main competitor for #1, but also for its 3 competitors for #2.

Miami will deservedly make a pretty big jump in the polls on Monday. Good for them. As one who, preseason, touted Miami - as definitely better than FSU and possibly better than UNC - for ACC #3, I can say I suspected they'd be good; but I can also acknowledge that I did not expect halfway through the conference games to be virtually conceding them the top seed in the ACCT. Nor do I expect that most of you will agree with what I'm saying here.

dukelifer
02-03-2013, 08:51 AM
Duke made a big step forward yesterday. From the opening tip they looked to be aggressive on both ends. Shooting 80% will not be duplicated but they can always play hard on D. From here on out, Curry and Sulaimon really need to set the tone on O. Rasheed was hitting some midrage jumpers yesterday. Kelly's midrange game added a dimension that has been missing. Both Rasheed and Seth have that as part of their games and it is good to see that being integrated. Jefferson is very crafty around the basket and he is an open target. Here all the guards- especially Cook and Sulaimon need to continue to pass and move the ball. Bench offensive production has been spotty but Thornton and Hairston are good on D. Hairston takes a charge better than anyone on the team and a turnover is a turnover. I too would prefer to see Hairston not take jumpers- but he has shown an ability to hit them when open - just not lately. I have not been able to figure out Marshall Plumlee. He looks like he has never played against anyone with size- yet he has had two big brothers to play against in the backyard his whole life. You would think he would have mastered getting his shot off. It is a puzzle. Murphy needs time - but it is good he is getting minutes. You can see potential - but he needs to see the ball go in. Duke should use him like they use Amile- closer to the hoop. This team is getting better- but whether they can compete with the best will be determined in the next few weeks. But progress is progress.

CDu
02-03-2013, 09:43 AM
Very nice win. We did what we should do. We jumped on a vastly inferior team early and never let them think they had a chance. FSU is a bad basketball team this year, and they weren't going to beat us unless we let them.

I loved the way we played. We did exactly what we needed to do: we guarded White and Snaer closely. Snaer is a terrific shooter when left open. But if you stay close to him, he's not very good. Struggles off the dribble, makes bad decisions. Sulaimon and Thornton did a terrific job of keeping close to Snaer, and the result was as one would expect when you don't leave him open.

Great games by the perimeter players. The 'Noles decided that Mason wasn't going to beat them, so they forced Cook, Curry, and Sulaimon to do it. And we did it.

moonpie23
02-03-2013, 09:47 AM
from my perspective, having a game like this at Fla State is different than @ clemson, or @ ga tech etc.....we've had problems down there for a while and to come out dominating like they did yesterday, well, i think that was awesome...


let's get ready for the wuffies...

ScreechTDX1847
02-03-2013, 09:57 AM
I too would prefer to see Hairston not take jumpers- but he has shown an ability to hit them when open - just not lately.

When you have seen Josh hit these shots? Someone else mentioned the same thing in the in-game thread. I don't think he has made one this year and think he has only made it 1-2 times in his career. The % has got to be <10% or lower on the shot. In fact, it's the worst shot we can take on offense and is so bad I think the staff should tell him to stop taking it. I am not hating on Josh but that shot is such a bad play.

Am I way off base here? Is there anywhere I could look this up?

roywhite
02-03-2013, 09:58 AM
A random thought....if there were a statistical category for most out-of-bounds violations per minutes played, wouldn't Alex Murphy likely be the leader?

Hate to see attention to detail hamper his progress.

dukelifer
02-03-2013, 10:31 AM
When you have seen Josh hit these shots? Someone else mentioned the same thing in the in-game thread. I don't think he has made one this year and think he has only made it 1-2 times in his career. The % has got to be <10% or lower on the shot. In fact, it's the worst shot we can take on offense and is so bad I think the staff should tell him to stop taking it. I am not hating on Josh but that shot is such a bad play.

Am I way off base here? Is there anywhere I could look this up?

He made them more regularly last year. This year he has struggled. I did not go through the play by plays of every game in his career but you will find them there.

Neals384
02-03-2013, 10:38 AM
Thanks-she is improving. Mom (class of '47) wanted to know if I had brought her "duke notebook" to her. She likes to keep track of all the fouls and makes notes on each game. A rout sure helps!

Wow! You have an amazing Mom!

pamtar
02-03-2013, 10:44 AM
He made them more regularly last year. This year he has struggled. I did not go through the play by plays of every game in his career but you will find them there.

I too remember that shot being a big, if not only, part of his offense last year. In fact, I remember saying to a friend after he swished one that he should take that shot more often because his only interior move was screaming loudly.

Marc81
02-03-2013, 12:09 PM
When you have seen Josh hit these shots? Someone else mentioned the same thing in the in-game thread. I don't think he has made one this year and think he has only made it 1-2 times in his career. The % has got to be <10% or lower on the shot. In fact, it's the worst shot we can take on offense and is so bad I think the staff should tell him to stop taking it. I am not hating on Josh but that shot is such a bad play.

Am I way off base here? Is there anywhere I could look this up?

I'm with you I for one yell at the tv everytime he shoots that shot. He adds a lot of good things to this team his 15 footer just isn't one of them.

ncexnyc
02-03-2013, 12:56 PM
I tip my hat to the folks who called this an easy game from the get go. I didn't see it coming, but was quite happy with the results.

The combo of Quinn, Rasheed, and Seth were lethal yesterday. Quinn continues to improve game after game and it's really nice to see Rasheed back to his season starting form. While we'll never know the true extent of Seth's injury. I appreciate what he's doing. His play isn't flashy, but oh, so deadly when he's on.

Mason had a very quiet game due to the early foul trouble and later once the game was out of reach he couldn't pad his stats while sitting out, which is fine with me, as it enabled us to see more of his brother.

Amile continues to produce. Not sure where I stand on the, "Should Amile or Josh start" issue. Both players have their role on this team and are doing well in these new roles.

There's been some talk about Josh's shot selection on this thread. Let me say this. The shots, while not looking great, have been taken in the flow of the offense and for the most part all appear to have been, open, clean looks. He needs to continue to shoot these when they present themselves. I recall David McClure and Lance (in his first couple of years) passing on these type of shots and I recall those possesions tended to end badly for the team as they normally ended up in the offense having to be completely reset and time running down to where someone else had to take a forced shot. This is part of the learning process and adjustment to LAK.

Nice to see Marshall and Alex get some extended playing time and not just in junk time. The talent is definitely there, it's just a matter of time and reps before both kids get comfortable.

Can't forget my man Tyler. He's still bringing the energy and the effort. Quinn's improve play as well as Ryan's injury seem to have cut his playing time. I know some are loving that fact and I really can't argue that Quinn is playing excellent ball.

I hate getting all melodramatic, but our next game appears to be crucial for the team. A loss and I believe any real shot at a regular season championship is down the tubes.

vick
02-03-2013, 01:27 PM
Can't forget my man Tyler. He's still bringing the energy and the effort. Quinn's improve play as well as Ryan's injury seem to have cut his playing time. I know some are loving that fact and I really can't argue that Quinn is playing excellent ball.

I agree with pretty much all of your post, except I'm not sure about the Tyler playing time issue. I looked at his game log (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tyler-thornton-1/gamelog/2013/), and dividing the world into 'pre-injury' and 'post-injury' (with the Clemson game excluded since Kelly hurt himself mid-game), and here are Tyler's stats:




G
MP
MP/G


Pre-injury
14
306
21.9


Post-injury
6
113
18.8



So it looks like a decline, except, while we played a pretty good non-conference schedule, there are clearly some weaker teams where you'd expect your bench to play more. So when I break the first 14 games into the five weakest teams (Georgia State, Florida Gulf Coast, Delaware, Cornell, and Elon) and the rest, I get:




G
MP
MP/G


Low-ranked teams
5
136
27.2


Other teams
9
170
18.9



So, pretty much the same against quality competition, I think. I admit my perception lines up a bit closer to yours, and I'm not sure why--maybe he's coming into games later? It feels like it to me but I don't have any data on that. Anyway, I think he's still playing his role of 15-20 minutes of primarily defensive intensity quite well, even though I was one of the people who was fairly adamant about how big a mistake it would have been to cut Seth's playing time in favor of Tyler when that argument came up a while back (and I maintain that this is almost certainly true).

Newton_14
02-03-2013, 02:04 PM
I agree with pretty much all of your post, except I'm not sure about the Tyler playing time issue. I looked at his game log (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tyler-thornton-1/gamelog/2013/), and dividing the world into 'pre-injury' and 'post-injury' (with the Clemson game excluded since Kelly hurt himself mid-game), and here are Tyler's stats:




G

MP

MP/G



Pre-injury

14

306

21.9



Post-injury

6

113

18.8




So it looks like a decline, except, while we played a pretty good non-conference schedule, there are clearly some weaker teams where you'd expect your bench to play more. So when I break the first 14 games into the five weakest teams (Georgia State, Florida Gulf Coast, Delaware, Cornell, and Elon) and the rest, I get:




G

MP

MP/G



Low-ranked teams

5

136

27.2



Other teams

9

170

18.9




So, pretty much the same against quality competition, I think. I admit my perception lines up a bit closer to yours, and I'm not sure why--maybe he's coming into games later? It feels like it to me but I don't have any data on that. Anyway, I think he's still playing his role of 15-20 minutes of primarily defensive intensity quite well, even though I was one of the people who was fairly adamant about how big a mistake it would have been to cut Seth's playing time in favor of Tyler when that argument came up a while back (and I maintain that this is almost certainly true).

Like Ncexnyc, I am a huge Tyler Thornton fan, but there is a link to Ryan with Tyler's minutes dropping slightly. Ryan was a huge offensive threat. Amile is not, Josh is not. When Tyler comes in, he is not an offensive threat save for the occasional open 3, which you will notice is almost never there anymore. Without Ryan on the floor defenders can cheat off of Amile/Josh to help on the perimeter as well as on Mason.

Add it all up, and it means that w/o Ryan out there, K has to keep Seth, Quinn, and Rasheed on the floor more often to insure we have at least 3 to 4 offensive threats on the floor. Those are the guys Tyler subs in for, so it has hurt his minutes.

Cameron
02-03-2013, 08:01 PM
No matter what he did last year, if the past 21 games are any indication, Josh should not ever take a 15-footer. If he would have shot another one in the Florida State game, I would have called the police. His range extends only as far out as his arms can reach the basket. Perhaps he will improve his shot over the course of his career, but as of right now, Josh's jumper is completely forced and hapless. He is on the floor for purposes of energy, hustle, rebounding and tap ins, which he is actually quite adept at.

I blow my top every time he shoots anything but a layup. Then again, I act utterly insane when watching Duke play.

cptnflash
02-03-2013, 09:35 PM
No matter what he did last year, if the past 21 games are any indication, Josh should not ever take a 15-footer. If he would have shot another one in the Florida State game, I would have called the police. His range extends only as far out as his arms can reach the basket. Perhaps he will improve his shot over the course of his career, but as of right now, Josh's jumper is completely forced and hapless. He is on the floor for purposes of energy, hustle, rebounding and tap ins, which he is actually quite adept at.

I blow my top every time he shoots anything but a layup. Then again, I act utterly insane when watching Duke play.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! :)

wk2109
02-03-2013, 11:39 PM
No matter what he did last year, if the past 21 games are any indication, Josh should not ever take a 15-footer. If he would have shot another one in the Florida State game, I would have called the police. His range extends only as far out as his arms can reach the basket. Perhaps he will improve his shot over the course of his career, but as of right now, Josh's jumper is completely forced and hapless. He is on the floor for purposes of energy, hustle, rebounding and tap ins, which he is actually quite adept at.

I blow my top every time he shoots anything but a layup. Then again, I act utterly insane when watching Duke play.

I noted this in another thread, but I find it strange that Josh can regularly knock down the mid-range jumper at Countdown to Craziness, but seemingly never makes them during actual games. I remember he was even making those jumpers during his freshman year CTC off nice looks from Kyrie. I'd guess that he makes those shots at a decent clip during practice, but that a lack of confidence (or just bad luck) holds him back during games. I wonder -- perhaps anyone who regularly attends games and watches the team warm up can answer -- if he is one of those guys who can knock down every practice shot.

If there was a game for him to gain some confidence in his jumper, it was in the blowout over FSU -- unfortunately he didn't make any. It would be huge if he could knock it down at a decent clip. It would be similar to Lance adding that jumper during his senior year and adding a few bonus buckets for a team that depended heavily on just 3 guys to score.

Channing
02-04-2013, 08:59 AM
No matter what he did last year, if the past 21 games are any indication, Josh should not ever take a 15-footer. If he would have shot another one in the Florida State game, I would have called the police. His range extends only as far out as his arms can reach the basket. Perhaps he will improve his shot over the course of his career, but as of right now, Josh's jumper is completely forced and hapless. He is on the floor for purposes of energy, hustle, rebounding and tap ins, which he is actually quite adept at.

I blow my top every time he shoots anything but a layup. Then again, I act utterly insane when watching Duke play.

I'll be honest, even the layups are suspect. I am sure it has happened, but far more often than not it seems like the best we can hope for when Josh makes a scoring move is a missed shot. The worst we can hope for is a fumble out of bounds. Josh's best offensive play seems to be the putback off a miss (much like Rodman back in his day), which he seems to pick up once or twice a game, and seemingly at opportune times. Its odd, because Josh has a comfortable looking shot.

On a completely different note ... I love that over the last couple games Rasheed has shown a real willingness and ability to hit the midrange pull-up 2 point jumper. Thats a shot that doesn't get a lot of love these days, although Curry and Kelly both hit the shot with regularity. With Rasheed's ball handling abilities, that shot makes him almost unguardable, as he will drive right to the rim if you play up on him. He just needs a little more strength which will undoubtedly come.

Monmouth77
02-04-2013, 09:21 AM
I'll be honest, even the layups are suspect. I am sure it has happened, but far more often than not it seems like the best we can hope for when Josh makes a scoring move is a missed shot. The worst we can hope for is a fumble out of bounds. Josh's best offensive play seems to be the putback off a miss (much like Rodman back in his day), which he seems to pick up once or twice a game, and seemingly at opportune times. Its odd, because Josh has a comfortable looking shot.

On a completely different note ... I love that over the last couple games Rasheed has shown a real willingness and ability to hit the midrange pull-up 2 point jumper. Thats a shot that doesn't get a lot of love these days, although Curry and Kelly both hit the shot with regularity. With Rasheed's ball handling abilities, that shot makes him almost unguardable, as he will drive right to the rim if you play up on him. He just needs a little more strength which will undoubtedly come.

That seems to be Rasheed's most confident move, and he seems to be better shooting off the dribble, which helps him get the momentum he needs to elevate for that shot. Even though he's "only" 6'4", he gets up so high to shoot that shot that it is tough for even longer wing defenders to stop him. Love it.

COYS
02-04-2013, 09:27 AM
That seems to be Rasheed's most confident move, and he seems to be better shooting off the dribble, which helps him get the momentum he needs to elevate for that shot. Even though he's "only" 6'4", he gets up so high to shoot that shot that it is tough for even longer wing defenders to stop him. Love it.

It seems to me that he's made a point to go for that shot more in the past few games than he did during his slump. When he was slumping, he was missing his three pointers but he was also missing layups . . . however most of those layups were of the contested/weaving-thru-traffic variety which are difficult to convert. He's pulling up for the midrange jumper now with confidence instead of barreling all the way to the rim no matter what. It is a very nice tweak to his game and proves what has seemed obvious from the beginning: his basketball IQ is far beyond what you usually get in a freshman. Defenders are respecting his driving ability so much that his pull-up jumper is virtually wide open. It's also a nice counter-punch to teams that do a good job chasing off of the three point line and preventing catch-n-shoot jumpers from 3pt range. Hopefully he'll be able to keep it up.

roywhite
02-04-2013, 09:28 AM
That seems to be Rasheed's most confident move, and he seems to be better shooting off the dribble, which helps him get the momentum he needs to elevate for that shot. Even though he's "only" 6'4", he gets up so high to shoot that shot that it is tough for even longer wing defenders to stop him. Love it.

Sheed is on a real good upswing lately.

He's hitting 3's, and as noted, his mid-range game is looking good. He's also drawing some tough defensive assignments, and handling them well. He's got the speed and ability to score on break-outs also. His area for improvement is probably scoring nearing the basket when defended or scoring through contact; part of that is physical strength, which will develop over his career, and part is experience.

Got to think that Coach K is very pleased with where Rasheed is currently and how well he's adjusted to prior problems.

flyingdutchdevil
02-04-2013, 10:00 AM
Sheed is on a real good upswing lately.

He's hitting 3's, and as noted, his mid-range game is looking good. He's also drawing some tough defensive assignments, and handling them well. He's got the speed and ability to score on break-outs also. His area for improvement is probably scoring nearing the basket when defended or scoring through contact; part of that is physical strength, which will develop over his career, and part is experience.

Got to think that Coach K is very pleased with where Rasheed is currently and how well he's adjusted to prior problems.

Gotta wonder what Coach K told Sully in mid-January to get him out of that 3-4 game slump.

Sully is a really unique player. He has a three, mid-range, and great at the fast break. He is our second best passer, our best defender, and by far our youngest player (nearly a year younger than Amile). IMO, I see a lot of Dwayne Wade in Sully, only with a better jump-shot and significantly less muscle. However, I guarantee he'll bulk up in the off-season.

I know I should be focusing solely on this season, but a core of Quinn-Sully-Hood-Jabari is just unfair next year.

mr. synellinden
02-04-2013, 11:46 AM
.

I know I should be focusing solely on this season, but a core of Quinn-Sully-Hood-Jabari is just unfair next year.

Don't overlook Jefferson when thinking about next year. I'm certain he'll come back next year with an additional 10-15 pounds of muscle - and he'll certainly be working on his 10-15 foot jump shots. I expect him to be an All-ACC caliber player next year. Actually, I think our entire starting 5 could be.

The thing that is really exciting about that potential starting 5 is the defensive versatitlity we'll have.