Duke fans make Deadspin

[Channing]

...and get brutally made fun of: http://deadspin.com/5979830/duke-fan-writes-unbearably-condescending-letter-after-being-harassed-at-duke+miami-game

I have to agree with the Deadspin writer. While he obviously took the article to the nth degree, I'm not sure I understand the reason behind writing such a condescending letter, even if it is all true. Surely the author must have known this would play right into the "Smug Duke Student" / Jennifer Taylor stereotype.

[devilirium]

^ Agreed. Sometimes, it's better to keep things in-house. You're not going to get sympathy from the Miami fans, though it sounds like the administration could've handled it better.

[Wander]

I like to think that Duke fans are genuinely a bit less trashy in some respects than other fanbases, but it's hard to hold much moral high ground on this particular incident given that we committed basically the exact same thing with the "Robertson scholars can't tent."

[Billy Dat]

These ladies walked into the figurative octagon - what did they expect?

Why the Chronicle chose to print this piece is beyond me, but the fact that Deadspin picked it up supports the publication - I guess. All publicity is good publicity and all.

As for the "Smug Duke Student"/Jennifer Taylor stereotype, I remember taking social psychology at Duke and learning something about the "grain of truth" theory.

[Duvall]

I like to think that Duke fans are genuinely a bit less trashy in some respects than other fanbases, but it's hard to hold much moral high ground on this particular incident given that we committed basically the exact same thing with the "Robertson scholars can't tent."

Were they berated by university administrators outside the building?

Graduate students from other schools have always gone to games and rooted for teams other than Duke. Of course, those were students actually enrolled at Duke.

[Lord Ash]

That Deadspin author is an idiot. A brain dead, Gregg Doyle wannabe IDIOT who, I hope, does not get paid to write, because if someone at that online rag DOES pay him they are getting ripped off.

A fan is harassed by school administrators, gets pizza thrown on them by a mascot, gets harassed by other fans, and can't help but comment on over the top boorish behavior... and it is HER fault? She should have just shut her mouth and taken it because... wait, why? Because that is what you should expect as a fan? Are you kidding me? I won't even get started on the idea that saying your degree from Duke is hard-earned isn't okay.

Lord help the woman who writes a letter about being raped... good ol'Tom Ley might just have to let her know she deserved it, because she DID wear a really short skirt, and she should shut up about it anyway.



One of the worst pieces of "writing" I can remember seeing in a long time. I am honestly stunned that some of you seem to be taking the side of the author on this.

[MCFinARL]

These ladies walked into the figurative octagon - what did they expect?

Why the Chronicle chose to print this piece is beyond me, but the fact that Deadspin picked it up supports the publication - I guess. All publicity is good publicity and all.

As for the "Smug Duke Student"/Jennifer Taylor stereotype, I remember taking social psychology at Duke and learning something about the "grain of truth" theory.

Well, it was a letter to the editor, and presumably one the Chronicle editors thought was interesting--which, as you note, it apparently was, since Deadspin picked it up. Doesn't mean the Chronicle staff agreed with it, and for sure it is not an obligation of the Chronicle to publish only material that will make Duke graduates and fans look good.


Were they berated by university administrators outside the building?

Graduate students from other schools have always gone to games and rooted for teams other than Duke. Of course, those were students actually enrolled at Duke.
And these were students actually enrolled at Miami, according to the Deadspin piece--so the situations are the same. It's not clear how serious this "harassment" by the administrators actually was, though it's at least possible that the administrators had the students' best interests at heart, thinking they would likely be harassed by other students (as they apparently were).

I will say this letter does make the point (unintentionally) that some things are better left unsaid, or said only privately, among friends. A significant portion of it seems to focus not on the poor manners of the other students but on their claimed lack of wit, which seems particularly arrogant and feeds all too well into the "entitled Duke student" stereotype.

[MCFinARL]

That Deadspin author is an idiot. A brain dead IDIOT who, I hope, does not get paid to write, because if someone DOES pay him they are getting ripped off.

A fan is harassed by school administrators, gets pizza thrown on them by a mascot, gets harassed by other fans, and can't help but comment on over the top boorish behavior... and it is HER fault? She should have just shut her mouth and taken it? Are you kidding me?

Lord help the woman who writes a letter about being raped... good ol'Tom Ley might just have to let her know she deserved it, because she DID wear a really short skirt.



One of the worst pieces of "writing" I can remember seeing in a long time. I am honestly stunned that some of you seem to be taking the side of the author on this.

Well, okay, I see your point--and fan behavior all over the place, not just at Miami, is increasingly boorish and even dangerous, which is a legitimate beef. But I think it's possible to be dismayed by the tone of young woman's letter without saying that what happened is either okay or her own fault.

[Wander]

Were they berated by university administrators outside the building?

Graduate students from other schools have always gone to games and rooted for teams other than Duke. Of course, those were students actually enrolled at Duke.

Hey, I'm not defending the Miami administration here, and I'm sure there are any number of differences in the details one can point to, but when it comes down to it, the primary charge made by the Duke girl against UM seems awfully similar in basic spirit to the Robertson Scholar thing. Doesn't mean it's right or that Miami should act this way, I just think it comes off as a little bit not-self-aware.

[Duvall]

Well, okay, I see your point--and fan behavior all over the place, not just at Miami, is increasingly boorish and even dangerous, which is a legitimate beef. But I think it's possible to be dismayed by the tone of young woman's letter without saying that what happened is either okay or her own fault.

Well, it's possible for any responsible adult. Deadspin writers rarely fall into that category.

[Channing]

That Deadspin author is an idiot. A brain dead, Gregg Doyle wannabe IDIOT who, I hope, does not get paid to write, because if someone DOES pay him they are getting ripped off.

A fan is harassed by school administrators, gets pizza thrown on them by a mascot, gets harassed by other fans, and can't help but comment on over the top boorish behavior... and it is HER fault? She should have just shut her mouth and taken it because... wait, why? Because that is what you should expect as a fan? Are you kidding me? I won't even get started on the idea that saying your degree from Duke is hard-earned isn't okay.

Lord help the woman who writes a letter about being raped... good ol'Tom Ley might just have to let her know she deserved it, because she DID wear a really short skirt, and she should shut up about it anyway.



One of the worst pieces of "writing" I can remember seeing in a long time. I am honestly stunned that some of you seem to be taking the side of the author on this.

Deadspin blows things our of proportion. Its what makes it (in my mind) a fun site to read. While I disagree with the author's characterization of the Duke students, I agree with the underlying sentiment that the Duke students probably didn't need to put this into the public forum.

Perhaps a letter to the editor of the Miami newspaper would have been a better attempt to raise awareness. By writing a letter to the editor it looks as if they are going back to their sheltered little Duke environment and complaining about the common-folk down in Miami. All a letter to the Chronicle does is try and make the Miami student body look bad. Whether it is valid or not, it violates the "if you don't have anything nice to say" rule and just seems whiny. I just don't see the need to put this into the public domain. At least thats my opinion.

[Durham Thunder]

Deadspin every now and then gets it right (looking at you Manti), but this time they're just piling on the anti-duke bandwagon. Way to go!

They can be equally stupid as any other media outlet, and are BEGGING ESPN to hire them! Forget that- back to Picon. I am so on board with this, I have seen school officials at Florida, Tennessee, and UCLA abuse their power big time; this is no shock. The Dean of Students at UM is listed as Ricardo Hall. It seems this is the guy referenced, but with fear of libel she couldn't list him.

[Billy Dat]

That Deadspin author is an idiot. A brain dead, Gregg Doyle wannabe IDIOT who, I hope, does not get paid to write, because if someone at that online rag DOES pay him they are getting ripped off.

A fan is harassed by school administrators, gets pizza thrown on them by a mascot, gets harassed by other fans, and can't help but comment on over the top boorish behavior... and it is HER fault? She should have just shut her mouth and taken it because... wait, why? Because that is what you should expect as a fan? Are you kidding me? I won't even get started on the idea that saying your degree from Duke is hard-earned isn't okay.

Lord help the woman who writes a letter about being raped... good ol'Tom Ley might just have to let her know she deserved it, because she DID wear a really short skirt, and she should shut up about it anyway.

One of the worst pieces of "writing" I can remember seeing in a long time. I am honestly stunned that some of you seem to be taking the side of the author on this.

Lord Ash, the passion in your post made me go back and re-read the full account, and I'll admit this story seems way over the top and beyond normal abusive fan behavior, let alone insane behavior by the administrators who wouldn't let them enter the arena. Point taken. Like the late great Jerry Orbach said in 'Dirty Dancing', and the present Dave Dameshek says when the need arises....when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong.

[Turtleboy]

And these were students actually enrolled at Miami, according to the Deadspin piece--so the situations are the same. It's not clear how serious this "harassment" by the administrators actually was, though it's at least possible that the administrators had the students' best interests at heart, thinking they would likely be harassed by other students (as they apparently were).The administrators stood in their way and halted their progress, while others were allowed to pass. Absolutely unacceptable, and if it happened to me, I would consider it an assault and behave accordingly.

[Duvall]

Deadspin every now and then gets it right (looking at you Manti), but this time they're just piling on the anti-duke bandwagon.

This time?

[Dev11]

Deadspin every now and then gets it right (looking at you Manti), but this time they're just piling on the anti-duke bandwagon. Way to go!

Deadspin is the self-appointed ombudsman of sports media, mostly ESPN. It often employs a caustic tone in its pursuit, and it goes after the stories that it feels will make the biggest negative impact on the ESPN empire, be they stories directly about ESPN or about the supposedly entitled entities which enjoy ESPN's support (a non-exhaustive list of those being Duke University, the University of Notre Dame, and Tim Tebow).

There is something to be said for the letter writer taking up her complaints in a more dignified manner, but then again, we're still talking about Deadspin. It has a target audience and this story feeds that audience, in much the same way that any casual mishap in a Roy Williams press conference becomes top billing around here.

[dyedwab]

The administrators stood in their way and halted their progress, while others were allowed to pass.

This, not the complaints about the fan behavior, is the nub of this issue. Not acceptable, and, I'm willing to bet, would not have happened if they were UoM grad students who were from another school (but that is supposition).

[CDu]

And these were students actually enrolled at Miami, according to the Deadspin piece--so the situations are the same. It's not clear how serious this "harassment" by the administrators actually was, though it's at least possible that the administrators had the students' best interests at heart, thinking they would likely be harassed by other students (as they apparently were).

This was my first thought as well. The natural tendency is to magnify the nature of events to sell your side of the story. It's quite possible that:
1. The administrators stopped the group to encourage them not to sit in the student section (for safety concerns or other reasons)
2. The group of students reacted with some level of anger, while other students went in
3. The administrators responded defensively

It does seem odd that a university administrator would actively harass students. It seems much more plausible that the students may have stretched/bent the truth a bit there.

[Lord Ash]

Lord Ash, the passion in your post made me go back and re-read the full account, and I'll admit this story seems way over the top and beyond normal abusive fan behavior, let alone insane behavior by the administrators who wouldn't let them enter the arena. Point taken. Like the late great Jerry Orbach said in 'Dirty Dancing', and the present Dave Dameshek says when the need arises....when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong.


It is appreciated.

You know, one of the great joys I take watching basketball is Cameron is that the fans seem to "get" it, that the game is supposed to be fun.

Sure you occasionally see that falter, but that is why you see Crazies cheering when an opposing player gets up after getting hurt, why you see opposing players taking a dollar for making a shot or eating a Twinkie and the fans roaring with approval, why you hear Greivis Vasquez talk about how much he loves playing at Cameron, and why so many opposing fans leave Cameron marveling at how nice the Duke fans actually were. I've always felt that the fans at Duke really do understand the passion of the game, but also have understood both the LIMITS of that passion and, in some ways, how to "properly" incorporate opposing fans and players in that passion. The fact that a young lady has some idiot running her down because of her letter about what I think are the WORST sides of sports and being a fan, partially because of the style of writing she used for a piece that would be published and because of the pride she takes in the Duke way of doing things, just blows me away.

[CDu]

You know, one of the great joys I take watching basketball is Cameron is that the fans seem to "get" it, that the game is supposed to be fun.

Totally agree. For better or for worse, the Crazies have fun with the experience. I say "for better or for worse" because I think the lack of hostility in the crowd (compared to other venues) does downplay the effectiveness of the crowd as a home court advantage.

Of course, I'm glad that our fans aren't boorish jerks/hooligans, and they certainly do support our players well.

[Poincaré]

Two cents: Ignore Deadspin and be happy.

Deadspin is basically half a notch above Bleacher Report. They cater to the smug stuck-in-their-teenage-years-without-knowing-it crowd. They can be funny on occasion although those occasions are becoming increasingly infrequent. When they accidentally fall on the right side of the truth that is obscured by the cesspool of conflict of interest that is ESPN, they can be tolerable. Otherwise, they're just shrill or (even worse!) boring. Their style might have been fresh back when their writers were younger and sports blogs were first taking off. The Deadspin ship is on its way down. It is just sinking too slowly for most people to notice. It is funny to read some of the columns written by their older writers, who have become unintentionally funny by trying a little too hard to seem edgy.

They're owned by Gawker, which is one of the great abominations of the Internet along with TMZ. Ignore Deadspin, young fellas. You might think that it is cool now, but ten years from now (given the pace at which the Internet accelerates paradigm shifts), you might find yourself unwittingly in the online equivalent of the Jay Leno demographic.

Most people in the US think that Duke has to be racist because it is in the South when a significant percentage of its students come from the Northeast US. Most people think that Duke is "lily white", ignoring its large minority/international population. They think that Duke is full of rich preppy kids when most students are on some form of financial aid. For most people the truth doesn't matter. For most people bashing a target for a perceived sin is a way to elevate their own statures. Currently, the main purpose of sites like Deadspin is for like-minded idiots to gather and pat themselves on the back for being so enlightened, smart, and cool. Gawker's expertise in yellow journalism is really useful for that. Even their commenting system is designed to incentivize exhibitionism.

Fighting Deadspin or getting angry at Deadspin is a pointless exercise. Their whole raison d'etre is to produce this kind of uninformed garbage (or well-informed tabloid garbage). Just ignore it and be happy.

[Jaymf7]

I too was at the game. Although it took a while to get in the front door (they are completely unaccustomed to a sell-out), there was absolutely no disparate treatment for the (many) fans like myself wearing Duke gear. I did not sit in the student section (and would generally avoid that in any hostile crowd), but the UM fans in my area were not boorish at all. They were very happy for their team -- and the crowd was VERY loud -- but they did not antagonize us at all. With about a minute left, we did start walking up the stairs (to avoid the court rush) and got a few looks and comments from kids heading downward (one asked for a high five?), but really nothing over-the-top.

The most annoying thing about the fans was the fact that several people sitting courtside (not players) chose to stand for a good portion of the game. This blocked not only my view, but also that of UM fans sitting next to me (including a 7 year old UM fan). Ushers usually ask people on the court to sit, but the nice lady in our section seemed not to care.

Overall, the game was absolutely terrible for a Duke fan, but a little part of me thought it nice that the UM fans could have their day in the sun (as long as can exact some revenge on March 2). That sentiment was some serious lemonade-making.

[weezie]

I just wish she hadn't succumbed to using the "f'***" descriptive. She wades into it deeper than necessary. Gave the idiot writer license to be snotty towards her.

Being a veteran of many an abusive fan situation (lucky enough to have seen many Duke games in many venues,) the worst ever was the 2009 game against Villanova on the T in Boston. Even more menacing than the firecrackers thrown at us in College-Soup School-Park. The Boston wads were physically threatening, enough to cause notice and protection from non-sports riders in the car.
The poor idiots who sink to such lows in fan behavior are just pathetic, boorish head cases. The "deans" at Miami acted like assistant principals for discipline at a high school. Plain silly.
Rise above and give the haters the death stare and put the voodoo curse on them. It's worked for me for years. :cool:

[MCFinARL]

Well, it's possible for any responsible adult. Deadspin writers rarely fall into that category.

point taken.


This was my first thought as well. The natural tendency is to magnify the nature of events to sell your side of the story. It's quite possible that:
1. The administrators stopped the group to encourage them not to sit in the student section (for safety concerns or other reasons)
2. The group of students reacted with some level of anger, while other students went in
3. The administrators responded defensively

It does seem odd that a university administrator would actively harass students. It seems much more plausible that the students may have stretched/bent the truth a bit there.

Yes--the administrators are described as "lecturing," "scolding," and then "bullying" as well as being "immature" and "catty." It's also said that they stood between the students and the arena while other students passed--but not specifically said that they barred the students from entering or attempted to do so. I think there is at least room for some doubt here, having heard some of my daughters' friends (Trinity 2004 and 2008) make some fairly extreme remarks about the unfairness or inappropriateness of behavior by Duke administrators/professors who didn't happen to agree with them on various matters (not to mention about the unfairness or inappropriateness of behavior by police officers trying to enforce underage drinking or open container laws).

[Durham Thunder]

Being serious-

I emailed Thomas Leblanc (Univ Miami) today about this, and Donna Shalala came back assuring me she handled this behind closed doors with those 2.