MBB: Duke vs. Maryland (Jan 26, 2013) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your pre-game and in-game thoughts here.

[ChillinDuke]

Put your pre-game and in-game thoughts here.

Oh my goodness, thank you. I needed something else to read / talk about. I'm so thankful for this thread.

Just. ... So. ... Thankful.

- Chillin

[FanFair]

Just sayin'. Next play - the mantra of anyone in sports!

[rthomas]

Just sayin'. Next play - the mantra of anyone in sports!

If only Boozer was still on our team.

[-bdbd]

Gota get this bad taste out of my mouth. I think the guys will feel that way too.

Wouldn't want to be Maryland coming into CIS after the Miami game.



P.S. I'm actually based in the DC area. After crowing about Duke's "thrashing" (his word) by Miami, the local TV sportscaster, who is a MD grad, was actually joking about this very point. Something along the lines of, "Well the good news is that Duke got beat, bad; but the BAD news is that the Terps have to go in there and play them in their next game.... (shakes head smiling)

[CDu]

Maryland is big and physical. They have Len (7'1", 255), but they also throw a bunch of widebodies at us in Cleare (6'9", 265), Mitchell (6'8", 260), and Padgett (6'8", 235). Mason has had trouble against size and physicality this season, so watch for his matchup against the Maryland bigs, who will undoubtedly follow Miami's script and collapse in the paint rather than chase on the perimeter.

Maryland is also big and athletic on the perimeter. They play Howard (6'3", 190), Faust (6'6", 205), Wells (6'5", 215), and Allen (6'1", 190), Aronhalt (6'3", 205), and Layman (6'8", 205). And given their defensive strategy of size and physicality, I wouldn't be shocked if Curry finds the going tough as well. Hopefully, when he does get open, he hits the shots this time (unlike the Miami game).

In terms of defensive gameplan, Maryland will play very similarly to Miami. They are younger, though, and thus may be more susceptible to mistakes. And we'll be playing at home, so we'll likely get the benefit of a few more calls going our way than we did in Miami. But I wouldn't be shocked if we struggle offensively against Maryland in a similar (if to a lesser degree) than we did against Miami.

On the other end of the floor, however, it's an entirely different story. Maryland is, to put it nicely, putrid on offense. They have some decent young players, but nothing remotely similar to the arsenal of talent that Miami has offensively. We shouldn't struggle the same way we struggled against Miami on the defensive end.

I am pretty confident we'll win this game. Whether it is a struggle or a blowout depends on our shooting and the officiating.

[TruBlu]

It will be interesting to see the intensity of our team to start the game. I can't wait for tip-off, as a way to get rid of some pent up frustrations for me (and the team) following our last effort(?).

p.s. For those of you living in the I-85 corridor, please do everything you can to keep the roads from icing today . . . leave your windows open in your cars and home, with the heat turned up high. If you are driving, take a salt shaker, and sprinkle some out your car window as you drive on I-85. Thank you in advance.

[slower]

Wouldn't want to be Maryland coming into CIS after the Miami game.


Hopefully, many posters are correct and our guys will turn it around and play with pride and a bit of anger.

But it's kind of silly for people to keep saying that they "wouldn't want to be Maryland right now" or imply that Maryland (or any other team) is AFRAID to play Duke. That's just not the case.

As I said, hopefully our guys will turn it around. At the very least, EVEN IF they lose, it would be nice to see them play with an edge. I'd rather see a mad team than a complacent team.

[dyedwab]

Given that MD's physical profile in the backcourt has some similarities to Miami, I'm wondering if something I noticed in the late stage of the Miami game might become relevant.

It seemed to me that late in the game, well after any chance of a comeback was exhausted, but while we were still pressing and running the ball up the floor, it appeared to me that Rasheed became the primary ballhandler for a while. I'm not sure whether this was by design, or by accident, or whether it was desperation to get something, anything to work. But I think we had some limited success with it. I'm wondering if we might see a bit of Rasheed as ballhandler tomorrow.

Other than that, I just want us to beat them to loose balls and play hard defensively for 40 minutes. We do that, and, win or lose, I know we played Duke basketball.

[Steve68]

Hopefully, many posters are correct and our guys will turn it around and play with pride and a bit of anger.

But it's kind of silly for people to keep saying that they "wouldn't want to be Maryland right now" or imply that Maryland (or any other team) is AFRAID to play Duke. That's just not the case.

As I said, hopefully our guys will turn it around. At the very least, EVEN IF they lose, it would be nice to see them play with an edge. I'd rather see a mad team than a complacent team.

It's not silly in that it has little to do with Maryland - it has much more to do with Duke and its attitude toward the game. If Duke had beaten Miami, I could easlily have seen Duke take a lax attitude into the Maryland game. That is not going to happen now. Maryland wasn't going to enter the game afraid either way, but now Duke will not take the game for granted.

[slower]

It's not silly in that it has little to do with Maryland - it has much more to do with Duke and its attitude toward the game. If Duke had beaten Miami, I could easlily have seen Duke take a lax attitude into the Maryland game. That is not going to happen now. Maryland wasn't going to enter the game afraid either way, but now Duke will not take the game for granted.

Anything's possible. Maybe Maryland, after seeing what Miami just did, will be MORE confident. Look, we could blow them out. They could blow us out. All bets are off at this point. If some people want to maintain supreme confidence, that's great. In fact, I wish I could have that kind of attitude and act as if some kind of switch will be turned on for our guys whenever they need it. Of course it's POSSIBLE, and I dearly hope that it happens. But it is most assuredly NOT a sure thing.

BTW, do you think Duke took "a lax attitude" into the Miami game?

[capitolhill]

Given that MD's physical profile in the backcourt has some similarities to Miami...

The way to beat MD is to make sure that the back court doesn't get open looks. Of course, they haven't even been able to convert open looks since the VT game, but it's been getting marginally better since the UNC game. If the guards start hitting shots, it will be difficult, because you won't be able to double and triple team Len.

The Len-Mason matchup will be interesting. Last year, Mason owned it, but Len is a much different player this year with some legitimate post skills. I've been looking forward to it ever since Len put a clinic on Nerlens Noel in the season opener.

Look for Dez Wells to play more point as well...

[davekay1971]

Maryland delinde est

Duke should beat Maryland. We should beat them down and do it with a ferocity that is just ugly. Maryland plays very good defense and they rebound well. That's all well and good, and we need to respect that. But, if we focus on our own defense and rebounding, we can rebound with them, we can shut down their anemic offense, and we should be able to generate enough offense of our own to beat them down.

I'd start the game focusing on Mason Plumlee. Get the ball into Mason and see if he can generate some easy offense and get Len in some foul trouble. There's nothing I'd like better for Maryland's last ACC game in Cameron than to have Maryland fans blaming the refs because Len gets in early foul trouble. Strategically, that would help open up the outside for Curry and Sulaimon and, if we can limit Len's PT, help us out tremendously on the boards.

If Mason can't get established, that makes things more difficult, and it could be a real dogfight. But I have faith in Mason to get established, and faith in Cook finding ways to get the ball to him in position to score.

I can't wait for this game. I bet our team can't wait either.

[DukeHoo]

My roommate is a Maryland grad, so I've seen them play quite a bit during the season. Their entire team is very young, and they lack a true point guard. As a result, their guards can be turnover prone (by being forced into bad passes) and their offense can stall for long stretches of a game. Beyond Aronhalt, they also lack good shooters. Layman and Allen can get hot, but they are both very streaky. Some of the other players (Faust in particular) can be goaded into bad shots. Their defense is pretty good, and they are an excellent rebounding team. Mitchell, in particular, does a good job on the offensive boards and could potentially hurt us (since we lack a good defensive matchup for him). He has good hands, and a nice soft touch around the basket. Len could potentially give us problems, but he has been playing soft as of late. In ACC play, Len has a tendency to fade away from contact in the post (Mason has had this problem recently as well).

I think we can win this game if we hit our shots and don't get killed on the boards. Hopefully, Duke comes out and plays with fire.

[dukeofcalabash]

A couple of observations about the team:
1. First and foremost, the players do not yet have a strong leader. Someone has to take this position and everyone has to know it.
2. Second, Mason does have problems, but it's with his own team! Who is there to really help the guy when teams like Miami and Maryland thrown TONS of bodies at him? Too bad Marshall is not ready for this role.
3. It appeared to me that the Duke offense was trying to play differently. If that's the case then our best shooter (when he's hot) is a dead man walking! Curry cannot create shots, others have to create for him. This didn't happen against Miami and he looks totally stressed and out manned (which he was).
4. I know Coach K says he spends the time to get the starters ready to play, but the result is that there are no subs ready to step in and become a hero, ala Fred Liind '68 ( think).

[Bob Green]

Excellent pregame analysis from CDu. I agree wholeheartedly with a couple of his points:


Maryland is big and physical. They have Len (7'1", 255), but they also throw a bunch of widebodies at us in Cleare (6'9", 265), Mitchell (6'8", 260), and Padgett (6'8", 235). Mason has had trouble against size and physicality this season, so watch for his matchup against the Maryland bigs, who will undoubtedly follow Miami's script and collapse in the paint rather than chase on the perimeter.

As I posted prior to the Miami game, one key will be Mason finishing through physical contact. Mason must be efficient scoring the ball. He was 5-15 from the field against Miami so he must be much better against Maryland.


Maryland is also big and athletic on the perimeter. They play Howard (6'3", 190), Faust (6'6", 205), Wells (6'5", 215), and Allen (6'1", 190), Aronhalt (6'3", 205), and Layman (6'8", 205). And given their defensive strategy of size and physicality, I wouldn't be shocked if Curry finds the going tough as well. Hopefully, when he does get open, he hits the shots this time (unlike the Miami game).

It isn't just Curry who needs to hit shots, Cook and Thornton also need to make Maryland pay the price when they collapse in the paint. Cook was bothered by Larkin's speed and his struggles disrupted our whole offensive flow. As anyone who watched knows, we had zero flow. Cook needs to be back in control orchestrating the offense against Maryland.

We saw a solid defensive effort out of Murphy so I expect we will see more of him as a counter to Maryland's perimeter size.


On the other end of the floor, however, it's an entirely different story. Maryland is, to put it nicely, putrid on offense. They have some decent young players, but nothing remotely similar to the arsenal of talent that Miami has offensively. We shouldn't struggle the same way we struggled against Miami on the defensive end.

Our defense has a lot to prove not only against Maryland but over the next several games. We need to prove the Miami performance was a fluke.


I'd start the game focusing on Mason Plumlee. Get the ball into Mason and see if he can generate some easy offense and get Len in some foul trouble. There's nothing I'd like better for Maryland's last ACC game in Cameron than to have Maryland fans blaming the refs because Len gets in early foul trouble. Strategically, that would help open up the outside for Curry and Sulaimon and, if we can limit Len's PT, help us out tremendously on the boards.

Foul trouble is an intangible in every ball game, but you hit the nail on the head by pointing out the Twerping factor. Nothing would be finer than hearing Maryland fans twerp, twerp, twerp after this game.

I believe everyone has a bad taste in their mouth after the debacle in Coral Gables and I'm confident that includes the players and staff. It is time to start the healing process!

[superdave]

I'd start the game focusing on Mason Plumlee. Get the ball into Mason and see if he can generate some easy offense and get Len in some foul trouble. There's nothing I'd like better for Maryland's last ACC game in Cameron than to have Maryland fans blaming the refs because Len gets in early foul trouble. Strategically, that would help open up the outside for Curry and Sulaimon and, if we can limit Len's PT, help us out tremendously on the boards.

If Mason can't get established, that makes things more difficult, and it could be a real dogfight. But I have faith in Mason to get established, and faith in Cook finding ways to get the ball to him in position to score.


Len is a pretty good defensive player, tall enough to disrupt shots (1.9 blocks per), and could give us trouble on the offensive boards (averaging 3 offensive boards per game). I agree with Dave Kay that we should feed Mason and have Mason saddle Len with some early fouls. That's the best way to reduce Maryland's game plan. Then we can control the boards and just pound them.

Maryland is holding opponents to .296 on 3's for the season, and .351 on FGs. Not bad.

I think if you establish dominance inside early, the rest Maryland has to offer will melt away. Time for Mason to step up.

[Steve68]

Anything's possible. Maybe Maryland, after seeing what Miami just did, will be MORE confident. Look, we could blow them out. They could blow us out. All bets are off at this point. If some people want to maintain supreme confidence, that's great. In fact, I wish I could have that kind of attitude and act as if some kind of switch will be turned on for our guys whenever they need it. Of course it's POSSIBLE, and I dearly hope that it happens. But it is most assuredly NOT a sure thing.

BTW, do you think Duke took "a lax attitude" into the Miami game?

In a sense, yes, I do. They have been getting off to slow starts lately, and, as has been mentioned numerous times in other threads, they don't seem to match the intensity of the other team at the beginning of the game. I believe they thought they could beat anybody based on their talent level and past results (NC State not withstanding), so they didn't have to meet the other team's intensity level. I think they got knocked back during the big run in the first half and were not able to recover physically or mentally. They tightened-up and usually high percentage shots were just off target and became misses. It snow-balled and once reliable shots became fast break opportunities for Miami. Could it happen again? Of course it could, but I doubt that we will have another shooting night like that and, at least in the short run, I doubt that we will not be intense from the get go. I guess we will all find out together.

[bedeviled]

Featherston’s interesting front page article (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=46336) reviews the rather substantial changes K has made after big losses in the past, yet, for the most part, we keep rehashing the who-can-take-Ryan’s-place argument. Some of our other proposed game plans amount to “we need to play better,” and aren’t all that useful for tactics or fun mental exercises. Maybe we should go back to the less heralded speculations and imagine something more preposterous around the corner… Anyone have a crazy (but possible) scenario in mind?

I don’t know anything about Maryland. Would this be a good game to test out the Twin Towers landscape with Mason and Marshall in the blocks? I know Marshall isn’t ready, but both Miles and Mason played with two low post players before they were ready. I know twin towers limits Mason’s space, but so does Amile’s and Josh’s short range. Plus, Mason isn’t really sitting down in the low post anymore, is he? :rolleyes: What if we moved Mason to the 4 – allow him to play a bit more face-up and play like those athletic thunder 4’s – encourage his prowess and develop that brutal mentality we are craving from him…isn’t that easier face-up than back-to-basket? To me, he still appears to prefer face-up play and seems to force himself to use back-to-basket (or side-to-basket) moves. I don’t think we lose much on the perimeter with this move. In fact, there would be further spacing on the perimeter…which Kedsy (I believe) has pointed out is needed by Quinn and Tyler for their shots…and Seth can get stacked double screens down low from the big guys. It does close up the driving lanes, but those lanes have been closed for a few games now, as we don’t have as much 3pt prowess as previous years. Besides, Quinn is pretty good about little dump-offs at the end of drives, and he would have 2 guys waiting for a pass/rebound. Rasheed hasn’t been finishing his drives lately, so not much lost there. Mason’s been playing the full game anyway, so we’re not really saving Marshall for breathers. IDK, it seems like a reasonable approach to me. Would this be a possibility against Maryland? Do they have a Kadji-type player who could pull a 4-Mason too far out or cause Mason to be foul-prone? Hopefully, with his past experience, Mason has understood the 4's role in help defense, so his changing positions would not have a steep learning curve for him...and we wouldn't really put him in jeopardy of fouling by taking charges because he and Marshall could both protect the rim with blocks instead...and he his play is more matador than charge-drawer anyway. On our offensive end, I would guess that a 4-Mason would be a bit more effective in drawing fouls against Maryland’s bigs. Upthread posts indicate that Maryland’s strength is rebounding. Well, let’s see how they do against Mason and Marshall together. Teams want to bang? Well, let’s bang! Maybe the combo would be even greater (um, MP-8….MP2 to the MP3rd power!) than the sum of it’s parts (MP-5). And, it would be another arrow in the quiver for a quick game-disrupter once Ryan comes back.

The other large shake-up that I saw was dyedwab’s thought (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?30314-MBB-Duke-vs-Maryland-(Jan-26-2013)-Pre-Game-and-In-Game-Thread&p=620376#post620376) that Rasheed could become a primary ball-handler. This has previously been speculated, but it doesn’t seem like the right time to me, given our need to adequately fill the 3&4-type positions. But, I wouldn’t mind someone also fleshing this out more.

Any other crazy ideas that K might surprise us with?

[The Gordog]

Featherston’s interesting front page article (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=46336) reviews the rather substantial changes K has made after big losses in the past, yet, for the most part, we keep rehashing the who-can-take-Ryan’s-place argument. Some of our other proposed game plans amount to “we need to play better,” and aren’t all that useful for tactics or fun mental exercises. Maybe we should go back to the less heralded speculations and imagine something more preposterous around the corner… Anyone have a crazy (but possible) scenario in mind?

I don’t know anything about Maryland. Would this be a good game to test out the Twin Towers landscape with Mason and Marshall in the blocks? I know Marshall isn’t ready, but both Miles and Mason played with two low post players before they were ready. I know twin towers limits Mason’s space, but so does Amile’s and Josh’s short range. Plus, Mason isn’t really sitting down in the low post anymore, is he? :rolleyes: What if we moved Mason to the 4 – allow him to play a bit more face-up and play like those athletic thunder 4’s – encourage his prowess and develop that brutal mentality we are craving from him…isn’t that easier face-up than back-to-basket? To me, he still appears to prefer face-up play and seems to force himself to use back-to-basket (or side-to-basket) moves. I don’t think we lose much on the perimeter with this move. In fact, there would be further spacing on the perimeter…which Kedsy (I believe) has pointed out is needed by Quinn and Tyler for their shots…and Seth can get stacked double screens down low from the big guys. It does close up the driving lanes, but those lanes have been closed for a few games now, as we don’t have as much 3pt prowess as previous years. Besides, Quinn is pretty good about little dump-offs at the end of drives, and he would have 2 guys waiting for a pass/rebound. Rasheed hasn’t been finishing his drives lately, so not much lost there. Mason’s been playing the full game anyway, so we’re not really saving Marshall for breathers. IDK, it seems like a reasonable approach to me. Would this be a possibility against Maryland? Do they have a Kadji-type player who could pull a 4-Mason too far out or cause Mason to be foul-prone? Hopefully, with his past experience, Mason has understood the 4's role in help defense, so his changing positions would not have a steep learning curve for him...and we wouldn't really put him in jeopardy of fouling by taking charges because he and Marshall could both protect the rim with blocks instead...and he his play is more matador than charge-drawer anyway. On our offensive end, I would guess that a 4-Mason would be a bit more effective in drawing fouls against Maryland’s bigs. Upthread posts indicate that Maryland’s strength is rebounding. Well, let’s see how they do against Mason and Marshall together. Teams want to bang? Well, let’s bang! Maybe the combo would be even greater (um, MP-8….MP2 to the MP3rd power!) than the sum of it’s parts (MP-5). And, it would be another arrow in the quiver for a quick game-disrupter once Ryan comes back.

The other large shake-up that I saw was dyedwab’s thought (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?30314-MBB-Duke-vs-Maryland-(Jan-26-2013)-Pre-Game-and-In-Game-Thread&p=620376#post620376) that Rasheed could become a primary ball-handler. This has previously been speculated, but it doesn’t seem like the right time to me, given our need to adequately fill the 3&4-type positions. But, I wouldn’t mind someone also fleshing this out more.

Any other crazy ideas that K might surprise us with?

Go long:

PG- Cook
SG- Sulu
SF- Murphy
PF- Jefferson
C- MP2

You said "crazy"...

[bedeviled]

Go long: PG- Cook, SG- Sulu, SF- Murphy, PF- Jefferson, C- MP2, You said "crazy"...Someone has your playbook!! Saratoga2 just beat you on the post-Miami thread.
EDIT: if you posit it, you probably should go ahead and defend it. After all, you are taking Seth out of the main line-up.

[Kedsy]

Any other crazy ideas that K might surprise us with?

Our roster seems fairly limited when it comes to shaking things up. Sitting any of our four remaining starters would take away a critical skill -- Mason's inside presence, Seth's shooting, Quinn's PG abilities, and Rasheed's defense -- and replace it with something less.

So, assuming starting Amile (or Josh) is not a shake up (since it's what we've done since Ryan went down), our "surprises" would be limited to (1) Alex at PF (which (a) would still be just replacing Ryan and (b) has already been discussed on the board); (2) Marshall at C and Mason at PF (which you brought up); and (3) starting Tyler as a fourth wing and playing Mason and the shrimps.

Personally I'd be against going 6'1, 6'1, 6'2, 6'4, especially since Quinn and Seth probably aren't even as tall as they're listed. Any defensive advantage Tyler would bring in this scenario would appear to be more than offset by this lineup being hugely outsized (not to mention Tyler's offensive limitations). Some people suggested this lineup before the NC State game, but K didn't do it and I doubt he'll do it now. But it's really the only other "surprise" option available.

So I'm in the "play better" camp. Before the State game I thought we could alter our offensive schemes to include more attack dribble drives by Quinn and Rasheed, but at this point I'm not sure that would work. Hopefully Ryan comes back soon.

[slower]

What about the possibility of subbing Alex and Amile for defense and offense (although, perhaps I'm just restating what they're already doing)? Use Alex to spread the floor if he's hitting from outside or driving successfully, and sub Amile when we need the defense. Obviously, if Alex is no scoring threat, then Amile gets the bulk of minutes. If Alex is hitting his shots, ride him as long as he's not a defensive liability. Josh is more of a safe placeholder. IMO, he brings less on D than Amile and less on offense than Alex. The above scenario assumes Rasheed paying off at the 3. As others have pointed out, Ryan's injury has created a domino effect, not only for Mason, but the entire team.

I know that Alex hasn't consistently shown the necessary shooting percentage to justify giving the green light, but he HAS shown flashes. How much should they let him "play into" form? And Amile has definitely earned a starting spot - I think he should stay ahead of Josh on the depth chart, so he can start building his game and confidence from here on out. If Amile had a mid-range game, he'd be a godsend right now. I think we need his motor and attitude out there, particularly at home.

Nothing new in my suggestions, I know. At this point, I think we need a team "attitude adjustment" as much as anything else. To me, that means as much of Amile as possible, unless Alex is just on fire. And, although I've never thought that Tyler brought as much to the table overall as Quinn, I think he needs to be out there setting the emotional tone for the rest of the guys whenever possible or necessary (and if Tyler is NOT a captain next year, I'll eat Roy Williams' ugly sportcoat). The rest of the season is going to be one long gut check - the haters are awaiting our every stumble, let's not go out without a fight. Seriously, if we're going to lose games, let's play the guys who will dish out MORE than they take. This is becoming as much about attitude and perceptions of our program as "soft", almost as much as it's about winning. Time for mental boot camp. Also, I've heard reports that Marshall is a banger in practice. If so, put him out there and let him bang whenever it's possible or appropriate - what can it hurt?

[The Gordog]

Someone has your playbook!! Saratoga2 just beat you on the post-Miami thread.
EDIT: if you posit it, you probably should go ahead and defend it. After all, you are taking Seth out of the main line-up.

Just caught up on the other thread and saw that. Agreed.

Well, basically I think we are too short. Maybe it will work against MD, but against Miami we just cannot win with the 3 guard approach IMHO. Cook has to be the PG. After that I say we play the longest available guy at each position. Sulu is taller, longer, and I am guessing stronger than Seth, who got manhandled the other day. Seth should still start - he's a Sr. and a leader - and against some teams he has proven he can be very effective. We love Seth at my house, have been pulling hard for him from the get-go, but I am just saying let's try going long for a while and see what happens. When Cook rests we can go with Seth and Sulu sharing the PG duties.

[Kedsy]

Just caught up on the other thread and saw that. Agreed.

Well, basically I think we are too short. Maybe it will work against MD, but against Miami we just cannot win with the 3 guard approach IMHO. Cook has to be the PG. After that I say we play the longest available guy at each position. Sulu is taller, longer, and I am guessing stronger than Seth, who got manhandled the other day. Seth should still start - he's a Sr. and a leader - and against some teams he has proven he can be very effective. We love Seth at my house, have been pulling hard for him from the get-go, but I am just saying let's try going long for a while and see what happens. When Cook rests we can go with Seth and Sulu sharing the PG duties.

Against Miami, we saw what can happen if Ryan doesn't play and Seth can't hit a shot. Well, Seth can't hit a shot if he's on the bench. Any lineup right now that doesn't include Seth will in my opinion be severely offensively challenged. I can't imagine subbing Alex for him is the answer to our current dilemma.

[rsvman]

..... Well, Seth can't hit a shot if he's on the bench. ....

True, but he can't miss one, either.

Part of the problem was long rebounds off badly missed shots, IMO. Of course, I don't expect that sort of shooting to continue from Seth, since he's an outstanding shooter and shooters like Seth generally revert to the mean. In fact, I might expect him to shoot better than usual.

[Bob Green]

Any lineup right now that doesn't include Seth will in my opinion be severely offensively challenged. I can't imagine subbing Alex for him is the answer to our current dilemma.

While I believe Alex Murphy will see more minutes, I do not believe it would be wise to start him over Seth Curry. Yes, Curry had a bad night shooting, but as Kedsy points out, Curry is one of our best offensive options. Dumping it inside to Mason being the other.

[Kedsy]

True, but he can't miss one, either.

Part of the problem was long rebounds off badly missed shots, IMO. Of course, I don't expect that sort of shooting to continue from Seth, since he's an outstanding shooter and shooters like Seth generally revert to the mean. In fact, I might expect him to shoot better than usual.

Right now Seth's the best hope we have as an outside presence. If he's not hitting, scoring will be a real challenge for us. I suppose stranger things have happened, but as I said earlier I don't think subbing Alex for Seth for any significant amount of time is the answer.

[Bob Green]

...but as I said earlier I don't think subbing Alex for Seth for any significant amount of time is the answer.

I believe Murphy could start to eat some of Tyler Thornton's minutes especially if the 3-ball starts to fall. Murphy gives us more size on the perimeter, which helps out against bigger teams. He has had some good looks from beyond the arc that rimmed out the past two games.

[freshmanjs]

In a sense, yes, I do. They have been getting off to slow starts lately, and, as has been mentioned numerous times in other threads, they don't seem to match the intensity of the other team at the beginning of the game. I believe they thought they could beat anybody based on their talent level and past results (NC State not withstanding), so they didn't have to meet the other team's intensity level. I think they got knocked back during the big run in the first half and were not able to recover physically or mentally. They tightened-up and usually high percentage shots were just off target and became misses. It snow-balled and once reliable shots became fast break opportunities for Miami. Could it happen again? Of course it could, but I doubt that we will have another shooting night like that and, at least in the short run, I doubt that we will not be intense from the get go. I guess we will all find out together.

duke played pretty well at the beginning of the game.

[Durham Thunder]

Right now, inserting Murphy into the starting rotation is worth a try. Against NSCU, GT, and The U, our regular startin lineup has turned up terrible results. Against Maryland though, with 7ft Alex Len, it may be interesting to have both plumlees start the game.


For the most part though, let's bring MP3 and Seth off the bench once or twice and see what happens. After all, Curry's legs aren't getting incredibly better.

[Kedsy]

For the most part though, let's bring MP3 and Seth off the bench once or twice and see what happens. After all, Curry's legs aren't getting incredibly better.

Why not bench all the starters and "see what happens"? Or put all the uniform numbers into a hat and pick the starting lineup that way? Even on one leg, Seth is critical to our success as a team, with or without Ryan. His performance in the Miami game and the resulting beatdown should actually reinforce the notion of his importance rather than lead to more calls for his benching.

Also, you think Seth playing off the bench is going to heal his legs better than playing in the starting lineup?

[Fish80]

Tyler, Rasheed, Amile, and Mason bring the most fight. With those 4, we need some more offense and good passing. Alex. That's your starting five tomorrow.

[Kedsy]

Tyler, Rasheed, Amile, and Mason bring the most fight. With those 4, we need some more offense and good passing. Alex. That's your starting five tomorrow.

Wanna bet?

[Fish80]

Wanna bet?

Hmmm. I'll take those five. Propose your starting five, and I'll take mine against yours. Whoever gets closer (most out of five) wins a brew?

[Bob Green]

Here is the Weekend Preview from ACCSports.com:

http://www.accsports.com/teams/nc-state/2013012514569/acc-weekend-preview-jan-25.php


After having played just 23 total minutes in his first four ACC games, Murphy saw 23 minutes at Miami, and they were well-earned. He played hard (and well), something he hasn’t really done at the same time all season, and it resulted in 11 points and five rebounds. Murphy has seemed rattled at times this year, so to do that outside of the friendly confines of Cameron (where the crowd explodes when he makes a basket) is big. Duke could certainly use the depth.

The prediction is 85-57 for the good guys.

[bedeviled]

Sitting any of our four remaining starters would take away a critical skillHmmm, I’m thinking about your post while also trying to think outside of the box of our current system. I do NOT want or expect the coaches to go willy-nilly (nor do I think there is any need to do so); I am trying to think about how systems would work as a whole. I generally agree with your post, but I’m trying to toss my “knowledge” aside. I agree with the limitations you propose and also agree that radical change is much less likely than tweaks…after all, our system is already based on the strengths of our players and we are a very good team that probably lacks some leadership, one star player, and had one game with bad composure. But, given K’s history and my own enjoyment, I’m trying to think of alternative systems. If the system was revamped, “critical” skills might not be critical anymore. They may be a player’s best strength or a player may be the best on the team at a certain skill, but that skill may not be as crucial for a new system.

Gordog’s and Saratoga2’s proposal to replace Seth with Alex and moving Rasheed to the 2-spot:
You correctly state that we would miss Seth’s shooting. Alex + Amile definitely cannot replace the firepower of Ryan + Seth. But, we have no choice re: Ryan. So, the question becomes, “can Murphy replace Seth?” I agree with many of your past posts about the myriad dynamics of Seth’s role on offense and how so many people discount spacing and defensive “honesty.” That importance is a no-brainer to me. Yet, there are some arguments to be made. First, blah-blah-blah Seth’s injury. Second, the ability of a specific opposing team to put a quick, physical, and/or tall defender on Seth. Also, perhaps Alex would also add to the offense in other ways…eg, could our new-found height get more assists and better looks inside for Mason, whose pt production with his current looks is as good as Seth’s? How much practical difference would defensive honesty make between the proposed lineups (unless the defense played closely on Alex, he is mobile enough to force them to foul in an open-field-tackle scenario if his gameplan was Poythress-type, but how far outside would they follow him…and would turnovers cancel out positives? And how much of a difference would that space mean for Mason?). Could an increase in rebounding and/or fouls-drawn offset a decrease in eFG%? In addition, what if we didn’t need to score 75-80 points a game? Importantly, would Rasheed being moved to the 2 (as Alex replaces Seth) improve defense enough to make up the need for Seth on offense? I think this scenario is possible. I hesitate to think it is valid, as the defense, as a unit, could fall into disarray with so many newcomers. I do, though, think it is a reasonable change worthy of considering the pros and cons of how such a system would operate.

Similarly, we’ve seen Rasheed and Quinn benched before. Thus, K is not beneath diminishing the role of a certain skillset. I’m trying to think as if no position is safe (though I’m having trouble even imagining a system where Mason’s time is limited).

But, perhaps more importantly, you bring up a good point that shake-ups don’t have to be predicated on personnel change. In that vein, Slower makes a good point about substitution patterns that never even crossed my mind. And, similar to you, I have thought about changing our style to incorporate more dribble drives. I still think it would work. In my mind, though, an important part of such a style would be that the drives do not have to be finished. If Quinn and Rasheed were more mature, perhaps they’d see the value of driving, stretching, and cutting up the defense even if the drive doesn’t end in a shot...plays don't always have to be started from the top of the arc. Seth, especially in the Kentucky game IIRC, has displayed this tactic well – driving through the defense and back out to create space, confusion, and mismatches. Incorporating this part of driving allows for more fluidity and options as opposed to, as I see it, a fairly rigid, limited one-on-one structure created when we attempt a dribble-drive offense presently.

[bedeviled]

I'll take those five. [SNIP] Whoever gets closer (most out of five) wins a brew?Party at Fish's house!! Don't forget to stop by the bank today, Fish. If you are correct, your first round of pitchforks will be on me!:cool:

[Durham Thunder]

Wanna bet?

Experimenting with a team that currently does not have a consistent combination of starters is a good idea. It's not as radical as putting "all the uniform numbers into a hat", but it helps to solve the issue of chemistry.

Considering our 1-2 record since Kelly went out, there isn't a correct starting lineup. No one's become the smartest person in the room yet.

[slower]

The prediction is 85-57 for the good guys.

Wow. A 28-point blowout, huh? She'll either look like a genius or an idiot.

[Fish80]

... No one's become the smartest person in the room yet.

Ipso facto we are all equally dumb. :D

[Duvall]

Tyler, Rasheed, Amile, and Mason bring the most fight. With those 4, we need some more offense and good passing. Alex. That's your starting five tomorrow.

Put aside for a moment trying to measure "fight" - what makes you think Murphy brings more offense and good passing? His next assist will be the first of his career.

[Duvall]

Right now, inserting Murphy into the starting rotation is worth a try. Against NSCU, GT, and The U, our regular startin lineup has turned up terrible results.

Which regular starting lineup?

[Fish80]

Party at Fish's house!! Don't forget to stop by the bank today, Fish. If you are correct, your first round of pitchforks will be on me!:cool:

Awesome, baby! If the board is a good barameter, Alex is starting tomorrow. And that means Kedsy is buying!

[Bob Green]

Which regular starting lineup?

Shame on you, Duvall. Using facts on a message board is like bringing a gun to a knife fight.

[MCFinARL]

Here is the Weekend Preview from ACCSports.com:

http://www.accsports.com/teams/nc-state/2013012514569/acc-weekend-preview-jan-25.php



The prediction is 85-57 for the good guys.

May it be so. But this prediction seems wildly optimistic (from a Duke perspective, of course) to me. Granted Maryland is offensively challenged, their defense is strong and Duke is still trying to put together a solid Ryan-less offense. So I don't know about a 28 point margin.

[Fish80]

Put aside for a moment trying to measure "fight" - what makes you think Murphy brings more offense and good passing? His next assist will be the first of his career.

Dude, why so harsh on Murphy? He can pass. From GoDuke.com:


International Basketball
Played for the U-20 Finnish National Team in the 2012 FIBA U-20 World Championships
Finished as the team's leading scorer, rebounder and shot blocker ... averaged 17.4 points, 6.6 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 1.3 blocks and 1.1 steals per game

High School
Averaged 21.0 points, 7.2 rebounds and 4.0 assists per game in 2011

[Kedsy]

Similarly, we’ve seen Rasheed and Quinn benched before. Thus, K is not beneath diminishing the role of a certain skillset. I’m trying to think as if no position is safe (though I’m having trouble even imagining a system where Mason’s time is limited).

Yes, but I think it's a lot harder to bench Seth with Ryan already out than it was to bench Quinn in the first couple games of the year.


In my mind, though, an important part of such a style would be that the drives do not have to be finished. If Quinn and Rasheed were more mature, perhaps they’d see the value of driving, stretching, and cutting up the defense even if the drive doesn’t end in a shot...plays don't always have to be started from the top of the arc. Seth, especially in the Kentucky game IIRC, has displayed this tactic well – driving through the defense and back out to create space, confusion, and mismatches. Incorporating this part of driving allows for more fluidity and options as opposed to, as I see it, a fairly rigid, limited one-on-one structure created when we attempt a dribble-drive offense presently.

I completely agree. The main point of this sort of offense would be to open things up for passing to Mason, Amile, or Seth, and only attempting to finish if the defense backs off.


Hmmm. I'll take those five. Propose your starting five, and I'll take mine against yours. Whoever gets closer (most out of five) wins a brew?

I'll go with Quinn, Seth, Rasheed, Amile, and Mason, essentially giving me Quinn and Seth against Tyler and Alex.

I like British Ales and American microbrews. Not sure how you'll get it in the mail, though. ;)

[Duvall]

Dude, why so harsh on Murphy? He can pass. From GoDuke.com:


International Basketball
Played for the U-20 Finnish National Team in the 2012 FIBA U-20 World Championships
Finished as the team's leading scorer, rebounder and shot blocker ... averaged 17.4 points, 6.6 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 1.3 blocks and 1.1 steals per game

High School
Averaged 21.0 points, 7.2 rebounds and 4.0 assists per game in 2011

Didn't Cook average some absurd number of assists in a FIBA tournament, like 12-13 a game?

Anyway, the point is that Murphy has yet to show that he can provide efficient scoring or create scoring for others against college competition. Which is fine for a freshman providing depth off the bench, but it isn't an argument for starting him.

[devildeac]

Here is the Weekend Preview from ACCSports.com:

http://www.accsports.com/teams/nc-state/2013012514569/acc-weekend-preview-jan-25.php



The prediction is 85-57 for the good guys.

Somehow, I am tempted and might be willing to take those points. Bomber of a Southern Tier beverage at the first Brunchgate this FB season? ;)

[superdave]

A bunch of lineup tweaks seems unlikely. If there is anything changed, I'd bet Coach K pushes the pace. Every last guy on our roster can run the floor pretty well. Run teams to do death and use Rasheed/Amile/Alex/Tyler to rotate through a two-man full-court press assignment and just hound ball handlers for 40 minutes.

Mason is pretty awesome in the open court. Rasheed, Seth, Tyler and Quinn can all push the ball by dribble on the break. Amile and Alex should be strong finishers.


Super "I think I always argue we should run, press, trap more for some reason" Dave

[bedeviled]

Yes, but I think it's a lot harder to bench Seth with Ryan already out...I also think it doesn't serve a message of positive benefit. Some argue that K simply plays whoever will give the best chance of a win and one could argue that he may bench Seth to reward someone who hustled more against Miami. However, I don't think benching (or not starting) Seth would significantly impact those things in a positive way. On the contrary, I think it would be negative in terms of our experience, confidence, and would unnecessarily call attention to Seth's Miami performance (and I DO think K always has a kid's future in mind). So, even if he doesn't get as many minutes, I will be a bit surprised if he doesn't start.

[bedeviled]

"I think I always argue we should run, press, trap more for some reason"As do I, as do I. While it may happen as you say, I am quite fearful of this. Given our let-down in discipline and the way NCSU and Miami dominated transition, I don't think out young guys have the defensive acumen to engage in an up-and-down point-war. (Although, if we actually make our shots, our transition defense is probably much better than recently displayed).

[devildeac]

Yes, but I think it's a lot harder to bench Seth with Ryan already out than it was to bench Quinn in the first couple games of the year.



I completely agree. The main point of this sort of offense would be to open things up for passing to Mason, Amile, or Seth, and only attempting to finish if the defense backs off.



I'll go with Quinn, Seth, Rasheed, Amile, and Mason, essentially giving me Quinn and Seth against Tyler and Alex.

I like British Ales and American microbrews. Not sure how you'll get it in the mail, though. ;)

This should be the first click for the winner of this bet:

http://www.beermonthclub.com/

I'm just gonna collect mine personally from Bob Green on the point spread at the first FB tailgate this season;).

[Fish80]

. . . I'll go with Quinn, Seth, Rasheed, Amile, and Mason, essentially giving me Quinn and Seth against Tyler and Alex.

I like British Ales and American microbrews. Not sure how you'll get it in the mail, though. ;)

New Castle Brown Ale is always a good choice. Or DogFishHead Indian Brown Ale. And Guiness, of course. You can always just send me cash, that's almost as good as money.

[-bdbd]

Here are a few links from the MD side looking at this game...

Game preview focusing on MD's road woes (interesting that most fan comments at the end seem to have low expectations for tomorrow):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2013/01/25/duke-will-be-tough-place-for-maryland-to-solve-road-woes/

Their all-black uniforms for Sat:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2013/01/25/photos-terps-to-wear-black-ops-uniforms-vs-duke/

Maryland has Point Guard issues:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/maryland-basketball-vs-duke-terps-lacking-consistency-at-point-guard/2013/01/25/13fb8da0-6722-11e2-9e1b-07db1d2ccd5b_story.html

MD's Jake "The Hair" Layman talks about the game and their prep:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2013/01/25/video-terps-insider-chats-with-jake-layman-about-duke-and-his-hair/

[Bob Green]

Somehow, I am tempted and might be willing to take those points. Bomber of a Southern Tier beverage at the first Brunchgate this FB season? ;)

To be fair to myself, I didn't make the prediction, I only advertised it. But in the spirit of fair play, I'll wager a Bomber as long as you promise to let me help drink it come FB season.

[gumbomoop]

Al Featherston's comments from his front page story might be a good way to transit from Miami to Md.

"Frankly, until we see Duke play a few more games, it’s impossible to evaluate the depth of the troubles that Wednesday night’s game revealed.... The next few weeks are going to be tough … the hopes for a championship season depend either on Krzyzewski finding a miraculous solution to the current problems or for Kelly to return to action. Until we see what happens, we can’t really start to put the Miami defeat into any kind of perspective."

Looking to "a few more games" and "see[ing] what happens," Newton_14 and SoCalDukeFan in the post-Miami thread laid out K's problem for the intermediate term, maybe next 2+ weeks, next 5 games [Md, @Wake, @FSU, NCSt, @BC], I assume their straightforward formulation might summarize an overwhelming consensus on EK.


Given the unknown of when or if Kelly comes back, K is caught between a rock and hard place trying to determine whether or not to make drastic changes on the assumption we don't get Ryan back, or small tweaks to try to help us get by until Ryan returns.


The question going forward is how does K and staff adjust or do we just muddle through until Ryan gets back.

Most of this thread has been devoted to a civil debate re how K might shake up things by (1) starting, well, someone other than Seth, and (2) giving more PT inside to someone other than Josh, i.e., Alex or Amile, or maybe Marshall. This is a not unreasonable debate, for the unpopular Seth Greenberg has, as tele notes, also straightforwardly stated Duke's key post-Kelly problem:


Seth Greenburg on the espn halftime report was positively gleeful telling how to stop Duke by taking Curry's legs out from under him (no mention of his injury of course) and also by pushing Mason off the block.

I've no clue as to whether K will break out drastic changes - start Murphy, and/or Thornton, and/or Marshall? full-court press? twin towers? Sulaimon at PG? - or stick with tweaking - getting Mason the ball lower on the blocks? a few more sets that are intended to get Cook, Sulaimon, Murphy into the lane for runners, tear-drops, lay-ups? more screens to get Curry shots without his being beat up trying to get open?

I'll be looking for any and all of these, and maybe even others suggested as possibles in this thread. Most of all, I'll be looking at Mason. Here are some constructively critical comments on Mason's problems v, Miami:


Mason ... looks nothing like the player from the first few weeks of the year.... Mason simply did not display the ability to get off very many quality, in rhythm shots. He appears to be shying away from contact rather than taking the ball up and through his man like he was earlier in the year. He's way too dependent on the jump hook -- it appears to be the only move he has any confidence in now. He's got to diversify with a drop step or a hook over the other shoulder. When he gets it real close in, he has to go up strong and dunk it. He's not only taller or as tall as every opponent he faces, but he also can outjump all of them. They should not be blocking his shot or deterring him from going up. And the free throw shooting is essentially the same as it was last year. The early season momentum appears to be gone there too.

I hate to say it folks, but let's just drop all the National Player of the Year talk for Mason. He's clearly out of that conversation, and he should be. Just worry about the next game, that's all.


Mason could really help himself by being more aggressive with establishing himself lower on the block. At time he gets pushed out farther than his comfort zone. When that happens and he does get the ball, he has to dribble to back his man down, often with less than wonderful results.

Notice when he gets the ball low, his options open up. He effectively uses an up and under move that is nearly impossible to stop without weak side help. His hook shot is much more effective from 4-6 feet than it is from >6 feet (no stats to back this up, but should be obvious to even the casual observer of Mason).

Mason can be the MAN, but he needs to fight hard to get low on the blocks. I read where a coach once said (my have been K, not sure) that all you need to do is move a man about a foot or two outside of their comfort zone to greatly reduce their effectiveness. I think this happens to Mason more than he or the coaching staff would like.

The next 15 days incorporate all games up to UNC in CIS. [It's still strange, and sort of irritating, that Duke plays both Wake and NCSt twice before playing UNC the first time.] I don't expect, over the next 5 games, that K will make drastic changes where Mason is concerned. I cannot imagine - and as best I can recall no one has suggested - Mason not starting. Also hard to imagine - though here maybe a couple of posters have imagined - another drastic change re Mason: playing him, for more than a minute, at the 4. I don't see it, for as oldnavy and tommy have noted, most of us assume Mason plays best pretty close to, with back to, the basket. We've all been impressed with his improvement. Until recently.

For - cursed be the name Seth Greenberg - as this season has, uh, recently regressed, opposing coaches seem to have caught on to the fact that Mason can be bumped, crowded, pushed out too easily, blocked, and [my obsession] footwork-distressed, to the point that Mason has looked discombobulated in the first half of the GT game and pretty much throughout the Miami game. So it's no insight on my part to say we all will be watching Saturday to see how Md plays Mason and how he responds.

As for the ghost-D that Duke played against Miami, maybe on that side of the ball K will go for "drastic" rather than "tweak." The truth is, I've no idea what to expect, beyond a much better, less confused, effort on D, against, after all, a team that should not be able to score enough points on Sat to beat Duke.

[moonpie23]

New Castle Brown Ale is always a good choice. .

the bone-in ribeye of ales

[devildeac]

To be fair to myself, I didn't make the prediction, I only advertised it. But in the spirit of fair play, I'll wager a Bomber as long as you promise to let me help drink it come FB season.

I'll bring a glass for each of us. We'll decide later who treats and what that treat will be;).

[davekay1971]

I'll go with Quinn, Seth, Rasheed, Amile, and Mason, essentially giving me Quinn and Seth against Tyler and Alex.

I like British Ales and American microbrews. Not sure how you'll get it in the mail, though. ;)

I'm sitting back drinking a Rogue Northwestern Ale in complete agreement with you. However, in the interest of fairness, if he's taking Tyler and Alex over Quinn and Seth, you're going to have to give him odds for sheer cojones in making that prediction.

[jv001]

We've seen Coach K make some interesting changes to the starting lineup in the past. Remember the Wake game with a walkon guarding Chris Paul? Quinn was not steady against Miami and Larkin beat him off the dribble many times. So a lineup of: Rasheed, Seth, Mason, Alex and Amile may start. I wouldn't count on it, but it's not impossible. Quinn has been replaced on time already so that may not be a good idea as it may really hurt his confidence. But we either need a shake up to get us going or the players will have to dig down deep to get out of this rut. I have faith in the guys and Coach K. GoDuke!

[OldSchool]

Posters have raised the issue that Mason is not being as aggressive as he might be at the rim. I suspect a part of that is his desire to avoid foul trouble. He has done a great job cutting down on bad fouls and he understands that he needs to be on the floor as much as possible for us to win.

One example that stuck in my mind was in the Miami game at about the 11:40 mark of the first half when Rasheed and Mason were running a ball screen. Mason rolled and Rasheed hit him with a beautiful pocket pass perfectly placed. (More of that, please!) Both Miami bigs were caught out of position and rotated late to try to intercept Mason. Mason went up but didn’t really attack the rim and lost the ball out of bounds. As it was, both of Miami’s bigs could have been called for a foul because both jumped in the air and made contact with Mason and neither was vertical. But had Mason attacked the rim, he almost certainly would have gotten that call. On the other hand, there was a chance he might have been whistled for a charge had he done that. I think the understandable desire to avoid foul trouble has a flip side to it.

I would like to see us use Mason more like in that play, in other words get him the ball when he is in motion and let him read the defense and make a play. (I wanted to see a lot more of using the rolling big man last year as well.) With Ryan out as innumerable posters have pointed out, Mason has less opportunity to go one on one under the rim with a defender. Put him in motion, get him the ball and make the defense move out of position. Rely on Mason to read the defense and either take it to the rack, hit Amile or Josh with an interior pass or find the open perimeter guy.

It may be time to get Marshall more minutes subbing for Mason especially in the first half of games. It may translate into Mason playing with fewer fouls and being able to feel freer to attack the basket.

[DBFAN]

I think Murphy starts tomorrow for all the reasons listed above. One other reason we are playing at Home against a rather sub par Maryland. Not to disrespect their team I like their Coach but these guys are young and while they beat State, they hardly looked like they knew what they were doing in Chapel Hill. For that reason I think Murphy gets the nod, because the pressure wont be as higj as it was in Miami. I expect K to get the ball to him often in the first half to force Maryland to open things up. One other reason I see him starting tomorrow is because if the hustle he showed in Miami the other night. In a losing cause he and Jefferson played hard for every minute they were in the floor, and we all know that goes a long way with K. If Murphy an put up just 8-10 pts a game (easier said than done, I know) this team will look a lot more like they did at the beginning of the season, at least from offense. If he gels can u imagine the potential for this team if and when Ryan comes back. Not only will we have another Kelly type player, but we will also have one who can get to the rim. As much as The Miami game sucked, it was a wake up call for everyone involved. Things will change, not because the Coaches say so, or they are suppose to, but the fact is now that they HAVE to. Otherwise it will be a long year. And Miami showed us that. I am still impressed with K not freaking out during that game. It woulda been easy for him to tell the team to just slow the game down and take the air out so they don't get embarrassed, but in that moment the greatest basketball let them learn an invaluable lesson for the future

Go Duke

Sorry if spelling is bad I hate typing on my iPhone

I put this on the Miami post game thread without thinking it prob belonged here instead. Sorry for the duplication

[tele]

First I generally agree with the newcastle selection, but that's only if you can't get a good porter, like Black Butte from Deschutes brewco. As far as lineups and starters go, after a game like the last one, who starts should be of less import than who's finishing. Most of the possible combinations have been mentioned, so I'll just say that the 3 guard lineup without kelly is not creating the same advantages for Duke as it does with him. So I'd say play a 2 guard, 3 forward/center lineup. Rotate your 4 guards to take full advantage of their particular skills and rotate your frontline players to use your depth there too. I don't think you give up much in doing this, and it will develop you bench, take some pressure off Curry and perhaps Mason too. I think it would help on the boards which will be important against Maryland. Someone else, DaveMckay?, said push the pace, press and use the bench, and this lineup would help do that by keeping your backcourt fresher. (I actually thought that would be the gameplan against Miama, to push the tempo and try and get to Miami's bench, but with Big Reggie back that was less likely, even though he was huffing and puffing quite a bit). While they may run some against Maryland, I expect to see an emphasis on passing the ball and getting good looks in the half court offense, just playing strongly together.

I don't really think it matters so much at this point who starts, start Quinn and Seth with Amile and Alex, or start Josh and Rasheed (mason is the one given). You can still go 3 guards too at times during the game, nothing absolute about any of this, just need to play to the teams strengths and make it harder for opposing teams to gameplan against you (especially against Mason and Seth). Then when Ryan comes back the team will be ready to integrate him and to compete for championships.

[BlueandWhite]

Maryland delinde est

Duke should beat Maryland. We should beat them down and do it with a ferocity that is just ugly. Maryland plays very good defense and they rebound well. That's all well and good, and we need to respect that. But, if we focus on our own defense and rebounding, we can rebound with them, we can shut down their anemic offense, and we should be able to generate enough offense of our own to beat them down.

I'd start the game focusing on Mason Plumlee. Get the ball into Mason and see if he can generate some easy offense and get Len in some foul trouble. There's nothing I'd like better for Maryland's last ACC game in Cameron than to have Maryland fans blaming the refs because Len gets in early foul trouble. Strategically, that would help open up the outside for Curry and Sulaimon and, if we can limit Len's PT, help us out tremendously on the boards.

If Mason can't get established, that makes things more difficult, and it could be a real dogfight. But I have faith in Mason to get established, and faith in Cook finding ways to get the ball to him in position to score.

I can't wait for this game. I bet our team can't wait either.

Agree with your post re: focus on defense.

And I just have to say, it's ridiculous that Maryland is going to the Big 10. They will be routinely clobbered by (insert Big 10 football power here) and geographically it's stupid for them to be in a conference with Iowa, Purdue, Nebraska etc. Good riddance!

[Newton_14]

I would just like to caution those who are in the camp of "Boy is Maryland in big trouble tomorrow because Duke is boiling mad and will take it out on Maryland". This Duke is still the "new" team trying to figure out who they are without Ryan. The last time we got smoked like this in an ACC Reg Season game was the 09 game at Clemson (Side Note: That was the game where Jr Lance Thomas revealed to the world that he was a leader, but that is another story).

The very next game was a Saturday afternoon game in Cameron against a decent Miami team with a star guard. Duke fell behind by 16 points, before battling back to tie, then win it in OT. K played the same 5 guys for like the last 7 minutes of Regulation and all of the OT, led by Greg Paulus. I honestly thought all 5 were going to collapse from fatigue.

Most were expecting a fired up and livid Duke team to run Miami out of the gym from the opening tip with the Crazies roaring them on. Didn't happen.

I honestly don't know what to expect tomorrow. Nothing will surprise me. I will take a 1 point win and be thrilled. I do hope we press them full court right out of the gate. Still think that is a tried and true strategy in the first 4 or 5 minutes of home games, from back in the day, and I think this team has the quickness to be fairly effective at it. K went away from that strategy several years ago, I assume due to the make up of the team. Forcing a few TO's early to generate easy baskets might loosen the guys up and get them off to a good start. I think it is worth a shot.

[DUKIE V(A)]

I am surprised that so many are expecting Curry on the pine tomorrow. Unless his injury has gotten significantly worse, I not only expect Seth to start but predict him to score 20+. We are going to need his scoring. I expect all our guards (Cook, Curry, Rasheed, and Thornton) to play a prominent role in tomorrow's victory. They need to contain Allen and hit open looks. Wells drives it hard to the basketball whenever possible but is vulnerable to offensive charging fouls. Getting him in foul trouble will significantly help our chances. If our bigs can keep the battle of the boards within 5 to 7, we will be in great shape to beat the Terps by double digits.

[gep]

What about Mason, Marshall, Seth, Sulu, and Quinn. Marshall can block-out... if teams double down on Mason, Marshall may be in position for a quick basket/dunk. If the don't double-down, Mason and Marshall may be able to create space for each other. Or, if Marshall subs in for Mason more often, Mason can play much more aggressively without worrying too much about fouls. I really think that the reason Mason has had success of not fouling is that he just avoids it. But he loses aggressiveness... on defense, I've seen him not even challenging shots much. And like others have posted, Mason may not go to the hoop as strongly as he can for fear of the offensive foul. Of course, all of this depends on Marshall being capable of doing what I dream of him doing.... :confused:

p.s. one other thing... on defense, Marshall patrols the basket... Mason can flash out to the point guard... take him 1-2 feet out of his "comfort zone"...

[Kedsy]

First I generally agree with the newcastle selection, but that's only if you can't get a good porter, like Black Butte from Deschutes brewco.

I always have a case of New Castle Brown Ale on hand in my beer fridge. In fact I have some in my pint glass right now. If you like porter, however, I highly recommend the Edmund Fitzgerald porter from Great Lakes brewery out in Cleveland.

As far as the lineup, I think we'll end up sticking with the three guard, two big lineup, primarily because I don't think we have a third forward who would be either a defensive or an offensive improvement over the third guard we employ. You say we won't be giving up much by doing this, but the only forward who could fit your bill is Alex and, as has been discussed already, I think playing Alex for a significant amount of time ahead of Seth, Rasheed, or Quinn would give up a great deal. I'm not busting on Alex, he's just not ready to give us any of the things Seth, Rasheed, and Quinn give us.

[OldSchool]

I do hope we press them full court right out of the gate. Still think that is a tried and true strategy in the first 4 or 5 minutes of home games, from back in the day, and I think this team has the quickness to be fairly effective at it. K went away from that strategy several years ago, I assume due to the make up of the team. Forcing a few TO's early to generate easy baskets might loosen the guys up and get them off to a good start. I think it is worth a shot.

This strategy gives me pause. To me, this team is not a good full court trapping team. Obviously, we were forced to do it for much of the Miami game. What we saw there was some pretty good double team traps. Especially Rasheed with his quickness and Amile with his long arms. But once they beat the initial trap, we were toast. The quick layups and alley oops on the other end were ugly and humiliating. It's similar to our weakness in transition defense.

Conversely, we have not in the last few years been a very good team beating the full court press, principally because we don't punish teams for pressing us. Too often we settle for beating the trap and getting the ball over midcourt and then work our half court offense (the opposite of what Miami did to us, which is take it all the way to the rim immediately after beating the trap). I'm not sure why we have not been better at it, especially when we have bigs like Mason and Ryan that see the court and pass well -- in theory we should burn be able to burn the full court press with regularity.

On the other hand Miami is a veteran, good team whereas Maryland is a young, not very good team. So perhaps your strategy will work with Maryland. Perhaps throw it out there a few times to disrupt them but not enough to where they get comfortable overcoming it.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Let's Go DUKE! Beat the Terps! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/duke_bluedevil.gif
Let's go State! Beat the holes! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif
Go To Hell carolina! 9F! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif
And here's hoping it warms up early enough in the morning to melt today's road ice by 11 a.m. so we can drive safely to the game! Maybe as Hell opens its gates to let carolina in, some of the heat will get out! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

[Bob Green]

Vegas has Duke as a 12 points favorite with the over/under set at 138 so they are looking for a score in the neighborhood of 75-63.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

[devildeac]

Vegas has Duke as a 12 points favorite with the over/under set at 138 so they are looking for a score in the neighborhood of 75-63.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

That certainly sounds more reasonable than the 28 point line we saw yesterday. Wanna re-consider our liquid wager with this new info;)?

[oldnavy]

I would just like to caution those who are in the camp of "Boy is Maryland in big trouble tomorrow because Duke is boiling mad and will take it out on Maryland". This Duke is still the "new" team trying to figure out who they are without Ryan. The last time we got smoked like this in an ACC Reg Season game was the 09 game at Clemson (Side Note: That was the game where Jr Lance Thomas revealed to the world that he was a leader, but that is another story).

The very next game was a Saturday afternoon game in Cameron against a decent Miami team with a star guard. Duke fell behind by 16 points, before battling back to tie, then win it in OT. K played the same 5 guys for like the last 7 minutes of Regulation and all of the OT, led by Greg Paulus. I honestly thought all 5 were going to collapse from fatigue.

Most were expecting a fired up and livid Duke team to run Miami out of the gym from the opening tip with the Crazies roaring them on. Didn't happen.

I honestly don't know what to expect tomorrow. Nothing will surprise me. I will take a 1 point win and be thrilled. I do hope we press them full court right out of the gate. Still think that is a tried and true strategy in the first 4 or 5 minutes of home games, from back in the day, and I think this team has the quickness to be fairly effective at it. K went away from that strategy several years ago, I assume due to the make up of the team. Forcing a few TO's early to generate easy baskets might loosen the guys up and get them off to a good start. I think it is worth a shot.

N14, as always - excellent post. I totally agree. I will take it a step further, I expect us to struggle. I have no reason to suspect that Duke will play any better than they have over the past several games.

Now, having said that. My sincere hope is that I am dead wrong!! What worries me is how other teams seem to bring more... what is the word I'm looking for.... just say energy to the game, especially early in the game.

Now the Md team that played UNC looked pathetic... seriously, they were turning the ball over (some uncontested mind you) at a rate almost equal to their scoring rate. If we do bring the enegry and smack them in the mouth early, we could be looking at a 30 point blow out of our own.

However if we come out in our usual habit of NOT being the aggressor, then I think we will be looking at a tight game with the real potential of losing.

I just don't know. I do trust K and staff to know which strategy is best.

My own personal feeling is we need Mason lower on the block to aggressively take the ball into Len's chest, damn the fouls... and just play hard basketball. It is more important IMO from the mindset and psyche of Mason (and by extention the team) at this point than getting 3 fouls in the first half or whatever.

Second, I want guard penetration into the lane!!! Ball screens, ball screens, ball screens designed to get Cook, Rasheed, Seth, etc... to the rim!! We need to attack the rim with a passion this game, again for the psyche of the team and to make a statement.

I hope I see some of this today.

On defense, I expect to see a much improved game (has to be right??), one because Md doesn't have much punch, and two, defense is a whole lot more about effort and toughness, which I expect K has made clear to the fellows that he expects that in spades.... I do not think they will want to mail this game in... may be some chippiness....

This will be a very, very, VERY interesting game to watch. I can't wait.

[Bob Green]

That certainly sounds more reasonable than the 28 point line we saw yesterday. Wanna re-consider our liquid wager with this new info;)?

Absolutely! Seeing as you are feeling magnanimous and you're willing to let me off the hook, I'll take Duke minus 12 points. :cool:

[moonpie23]

we need to be aggressive out of the gate......even if it means some early fouls......let the terps know they we are not gonna be passive...

[superdave]

Absolutely! Seeing as you are feeling magnanimous and you're willing to let me off the hook, I'll take Duke minus 12 points. :cool:

It's ok. You can drink beer for any reason, or for no reason!

I feel like this is a big game for this team. They need to build some confidence and show they can gut out a game. I might have to drink during this game. I am nervous.

[Dukeblue91]

I think this is all a little too over analyzed due to the Miami game.
The thing I got out of that game besides missing so many open looks including pointblank layups was our ball movement.
Once we started falling behind our ball movement was almost none existent and it was jack up city with only one or two passes.
Having a off night like that in regards of shooting may never happen again this season although this was not the first and only time Seth was totally out of sorts and ice cold shooting the ball.

We just need to take a little more time setting up when the fast break is not available and move the ball more and have guys cutting and probing more with and without the ball.
I also think that Quinn is having some issues that I have not figured out yet but he doesn't act as confident as before and is making some silly mistakes with the ball and quite a few unforced ones too.

All in all the sky is not falling even though this loss was quite embarrassing to us and the players.
I'm looking for more set plays, more passing and ball pressure rather then a huge lineup change.
I also don't think that we will be blowing MD straight out of the gym either and that it will be a hard fought game that we will end up winning by 10 or 12 points at the most.

These are only my .02 cents and with current inflation not worth even that much.

[Dukeblue91]

PS.

I was also very happy to see Amile and Alex starting to really stepping up a bit and hope that it will continue that way.
Sure wish that MP3 was as ready to contribute a little more too as that would help Mason a huge deal.

[dukeofcalabash]

Seems like the team has got to set screens or picks for Curry. He simply cannot create on his own and he needs just a second to shoot.
Mason needs some inside help, he can't do it alone and it makes him look worse than he is.
I'd say Marshall Plumlee will play a bit more today, as will Jefferson and Murphy.

Quinn Cook is about the only person I think Duke has who can turn into the leader it needs on the floor, but it may be too early to get this from him.

A Duke victory today!

[jv001]

Seems like the team has got to set screens or picks for Curry. He simply cannot create on his own and he needs just a second to shoot.
Mason needs some inside help, he can't do it alone and it makes him look worse than he is.
I'd say Marshall Plumlee will play a bit more today, as will Jefferson and Murphy.

Quinn Cook is about the only person I think Duke has who can turn into the leader it needs on the floor, but it may be too early to get this from him.
A Duke victory today!

I would love to see this from Quinn, but the way he hangs his head when he doesn't make a shot or throws a bad pass it will not happen. I like the point guard with a cocky attitude through the good and bad. Quinn is healthy and has the talent to become an elite point guard but he's at a cross roads right now and he needs to step it up and so do the other guys. GoDuke!

[terps84]

Turnovers will be a path to victory or defeat. If we come out of the gate throwing the ball away and get behind by 10 or more early its over. Maryland is too young and inexperienced to dig themselves out of a Cameron hole. I attended a game several years ago at Cameron and I expected the worst treatment from the crazies and got the best. We lost but I have a new admiration for the group at Cameron.






I would just like to caution those who are in the camp of "Boy is Maryland in big trouble tomorrow because Duke is boiling mad and will take it out on Maryland". This Duke is still the "new" team trying to figure out who they are without Ryan. The last time we got smoked like this in an ACC Reg Season game was the 09 game at Clemson (Side Note: That was the game where Jr Lance Thomas revealed to the world that he was a leader, but that is another story).

The very next game was a Saturday afternoon game in Cameron against a decent Miami team with a star guard. Duke fell behind by 16 points, before battling back to tie, then win it in OT. K played the same 5 guys for like

the last 7 minutes of Regulation and all of the OT, led by Greg Paulus. I honestly thought all 5 were going to collapse from fatigue.

Most were expecting a fired up and livid Duke team to run Miami out of the gym from the opening tip with the Crazies roaring them on. Didn't happen.

I honestly don't know what to expect tomorrow. Nothing will surprise me. I will take a 1 point win and be thrilled. I do hope we press them full court right out of the gate. Still think that is a tried and true strategy in the first 4 or 5 minutes of home games, from back in the day, and I think this team has the quickness to be fairly effective at it. K went away from that strategy several years ago, I assume due to the make up of the team. Forcing a few TO's early to generate easy baskets might loosen the guys up and get them off to a good start. I think it is worth a shot.

[jipops]

I would just like to caution those who are in the camp of "Boy is Maryland in big trouble tomorrow because Duke is boiling mad and will take it out on Maryland". This Duke is still the "new" team trying to figure out who they are without Ryan. The last time we got smoked like this in an ACC Reg Season game was the 09 game at Clemson (Side Note: That was the game where Jr Lance Thomas revealed to the world that he was a leader, but that is another story).

The very next game was a Saturday afternoon game in Cameron against a decent Miami team with a star guard. Duke fell behind by 16 points, before battling back to tie, then win it in OT. K played the same 5 guys for like the last 7 minutes of Regulation and all of the OT, led by Greg Paulus. I honestly thought all 5 were going to collapse from fatigue.

Most were expecting a fired up and livid Duke team to run Miami out of the gym from the opening tip with the Crazies roaring them on. Didn't happen.

I honestly don't know what to expect tomorrow. Nothing will surprise me. I will take a 1 point win and be thrilled. I do hope we press them full court right out of the gate. Still think that is a tried and true strategy in the first 4 or 5 minutes of home games, from back in the day, and I think this team has the quickness to be fairly effective at it. K went away from that strategy several years ago, I assume due to the make up of the team. Forcing a few TO's early to generate easy baskets might loosen the guys up and get them off to a good start. I think it is worth a shot.

I'm in almost full agreement on this post. The part that gives me pause as well is pressing full court.

I think this may be a pretty even match-up, we really don't know what to expect. It would not surprise me at all if this game models the one you pointed out. Maryland jumps out to a big early lead and we fight and claw our way back. The Maryland guards worry me because like Miami they are bigger. Unlike Miami, however, the Terps are not as experienced. Ofcourse, neither was GTech and they gave us tons of issues in the first half.

It's going to be a tight one today.

[TruBlu]

Alex looked like he hurt himself during pregame warmups and briefly went to the locker room, he's back out now looks to be ok.

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for Duke and Maryland, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=14577

[Bob Green]

The same starting line-up which started against Miami.

[Kedsy]

Tyler, Rasheed, Amile, and Mason bring the most fight. With those 4, we need some more offense and good passing. Alex. That's your starting five tomorrow.


Wanna bet?


Hmmm. I'll take those five. Propose your starting five, and I'll take mine against yours. Whoever gets closer (most out of five) wins a brew?


I'll go with Quinn, Seth, Rasheed, Amile, and Mason, essentially giving me Quinn and Seth against Tyler and Alex.

I like British Ales and American microbrews. Not sure how you'll get it in the mail, though. ;)


New Castle Brown Ale is always a good choice. Or DogFishHead Indian Brown Ale. And Guiness, of course. You can always just send me cash, that's almost as good as money.


Live tempo-based stats for Duke and Maryland, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=14577

Well, if scACChoops is right, I'm feeling very hoppy right now...

[bedeviled]

Posters have raised the issue that Mason is not being as aggressive as he might be at the rim.... [SNIP]... I would like to see us use Mason more like in that play, in other words get him the ball when he is in motion and let him read the defense and make a play.I agree. I think Mason has been our most consistent player mentally and physically. I think we can get even more contribution out of him (IIRC, Coach K had in mind that Mason would average around 25ppg). I think Mason is more aggressive and flourishes when he's going to the basket rather than taking hooks and fades. Thus, I, too, want to see more, more, more pick-and-rolls. In addition, I can't recall whether or not we have designed lobs/alley-oops or if they all come in transition, inbounds, and happenstance (besides a bad memory, it's hard for me to tell what was a designed option sometimes in our offense). Mason can outjump the world, and alley-oops are fun.

However, it's not just the feeds that could get him going to the rim. Evidently, opponents are taking away the drop steps to force Mason into hooks. But, it seems like he is using less face-up moves than previous years. He could face and use his jab-drive and up-and-under moves more frequently.
It's weird - even though he is the most reliable component our of team, I'm probably most excited to see his response this game (mental, physical, and leadership).

** I think I'm in a better place after Miami than before it. I am thankful for the reminder that the season is an enjoyable process. I actually don't care about the outcome of the Maryland game; I'm just happy to watch it.

[Fish80]

Well, if scACChoops is right, I'm feeling very hoppy right now...
You may be hoppy ... I'm gonna see who goes out for the tip.

[CDu]

A couple of friendly calls for Jefferson early on some clean Maryland blocks. We'll take the freebies, though.

[TNDukeFan]

anybody have a streaming link?

[TNDukeFan]

anybody have a streaming link?

Firstrow is up now, just in time for the TO.

[chaosmage]

and that was a pretty reverse jam by Len, but is Clark Kellogg pulling for Maryland because they'll be a target for tOSU after this year? :-P

[CDu]

A Mason-esque reverse dunk by Alex Len. That was vicious.

Still, a decent start for us. Ahead 12-9. The Terps are dominating the glass early (what else is new?), but we've gotten our transition game going.

[JBDuke]

Nice alley-oop to Mason, but an even nicer reverse jam by Len. What a great move by the Terp!

[Fish80]

Congrats, kedsy. I'll pm you later to work out the brew logistics.

[rsvman]

Why is Mason's wrist wrapped?

[dukefan10]

Rebound the ball! Please!

[Utley]

I thought I remember Mason dinging his hand at the Miami game. I like the Marshall move - need some board help.

[Ggallagher]

Why is Mason's wrist wrapped?

I don't know, but I did notice that when he went to the bench towards the end of the Miami game he was grimacing and holding his wrist. Right after that the camera cut to Ryan who jumped up and looked really concerned.
So it may be a holdover from whatever happened then.

[Fish80]

Rasheed! On fire!

[sporthenry]

That line up is really young. Would have been nice to see it before conference play (granted Marshall was injured and Kelly wasn't) but they seem to be providing energy.

Sheed looks to be out of his funk.

[Furniture]

Great energy by the team so far......

[CDu]

Marshall has a little bit of freshman/sophomore-year Lance Thomas in him. Just a whirling dervish of out-of-controlness. Hopefully the game slows down for him at some point.

[dukefan10]

Sheed looks to be out of his funk.

Yeah, I think so too.

[UT Dukie]

Have to give the announcers credit. They're impressed with Maryland, complete with laughter about how to avoid the charge...

[Ben1029]

Marshall has a little bit of freshman/sophomore-year Lance Thomas in him. Just a whirling dervish of out-of-controlness. Hopefully the game slows down for him at some point.

He is fast getting down the court on offense and defense though.

[davekay1971]

Quinn Cook makes some of the prettiest passes I've seen from a Duke point guard in a long time. His court vision is impressive.

[bedeviled]

* Much more active, especially Quinn taking responsibility on both ends of the floor. The exception is when we ran two sets for Seth: our players actually pointed him out and then moved very little as he ran around them, trying to lose his defender...tough to get open when it's both telegraphed and isolated like that.
* Marshall looked boyish and awkward joining the huddle after Rasheed's fouled 3pt. Baby's First Huddle :D
* Maryland bigs with very good moves
* Oh, and I think Rasheed made a bucket or two
EDIT: I should add the uncertain foul calls (Duke was very scrappy, yet Maryland got called for little a couple times) as it may be a factor later

[DBFAN]

I just really wish Mason was more aware of his surroundings. So many times the ball is around him and he doesn't know. Good news though Quin and Sheed are having themselves a game

[rsvman]

Elmore is practically giddy anytime something goes Maryland's way.

[JBDuke]

Elmore is practically giddy anytime something goes Maryland's way.

I don't have Elmore - I've got Ian Eagle and Clark Kellogg. Is Elmore broadcasting this one, too?

[Ggallagher]

Elmore is practically giddy anytime something goes Maryland's way.

That's giddy Clark - please don't make me think of what a game would be like with Clark AND Len

[CDu]

He is fast getting down the court on offense and defense though.

He does everything fast. Unfortunately, many of those things are done too fast. It's good to go fast when he is running up and down the court, but once there, it's time to settle down and play more under control.

[bedeviled]

Villanova 75 over (3) Syracuse 71 [completed OT game]
Georgetown also putting (5) Louisville in jeopardy with 12 minutes left

[slower]

Mason can outjump the world

Actually, in-game, that's just not always the case. Actually, it's quite often not the case.

Curry having another terrible shooting game. Sulaimon playing great, obviously. Outcome is still very much in doubt. Mitchell eating our lunch and dinner inside.

[Wander]

I think I now get more excited for our team getting a defensive rebound than a basket.

[Furniture]

Lost it a bit... Come on boys.
Where is Curry. I think he seems to be lacking confidennce

[DBFAN]

This is not meant to mean, but I have noticed that Mason seems to back down from certain players and challenges others. I do t really know why but when He is guarding Lin he challenges the shot but the other guy he just watches

[Ben1029]

He does everything fast. Unfortunately, many of those things are done too fast. It's good to go fast when he is running up and down the court, but once there, it's time to settle down and play more under control.

I agree, he was trying to do too much after the Sulaimon feed.

[Furniture]

Just as I said that here's Seth....

[chaosmage]

Seth Davis AND Doug Gottlieb? Ugh, I'll go do dishes thanks.

[sporthenry]

This is not meant to mean, but I have noticed that Mason seems to back down from certain players and challenges others. I do t really know why but when He is guarding Lin he challenges the shot but the other guy he just watches

Mason's defense is a bit maddening. I'm not sure if its his fear of getting into more foul trouble or leaving the weak side for a rebound, but for a guy who can jump out of the gym, he often gives wide open lay ups at times.

[sporthenry]

Was hoping Marshall was a bit more developed but he is a freshman Plumlee.

Very happy what I've seen from Sheed and at the moment both scoring and passing. Probably want the ball in his hand at the end of a game.

[Furniture]

Is it me or does anyone else think that Thornton is making a few silly fouls the last few games?

[dukefan10]

Amille Jefferson is really looking good! I love the way he plays.

[dukelifer]

Great effort and good passing by Duke. Maryland is killing Duke on the glass. Jefferson is playing great. Concerned that Mason and Curry are not scoring. Not sure Duke's shooting ( insert Rasheed here) can continue this hot. Should be a good second half.

[moonpie23]

mason's play puzzles me....such a commanding athletic ability and yet overcome with a lot of hesitations in many parts of his game...

??

[Son of Mojo]

Kellogg has channeled his inner Billy Packer in spots today--the snicker laugh got under my skin. Rasheed is looking good--let's hope it continues. Mason looks like he did as a freshman right now--tentative. When I see him in the post with the ball and see he could do a little drop step to the rim to his right, he goes left and throws up misses. When he's clear to go to his left and drive, that's when he goes right (usually into a defender.....). We all know he's better than this--we've seen it so much this year. Need a return to that better play. Impressed with Amile's energy--just needs to work on his FT's. Tighten up that defense in the second half and BOX OUT and JUMP for rebounds.

[Furniture]

I expect curry and mason to come out big in the second half!

[rsvman]

And down goes Louisville

[sporthenry]

And down goes Louisville

3 straight losses. 2 bad ones. Hurts Duke's resume but the top 10 has been killed this week. Makes Duke loss a teeny bit better.

[slower]

Sheed and Amile are obviously the story so far. If Amile could consistently finish strong at the rim, it would be huge. Our big guys seem to get a LOT of shots blocked at the rim. But no complaints about either of them. Sheed's passing skills are a huge bonus. As others have said, I could see him running the point if needed.

It seems that perhaps the word is out on how to defend Mason and Seth, for teams that have the proper players to do so. Mason's offense is looking more and more limited every game, and Seth is either hot or cold. Fortunately, Sheed can't miss today, or we'd be in a dogfight. If he cools off and nobody else heats up, it may not be pretty. Hopefully, the Maryland bigs will get in foul trouble and open it up inside a bit. We may not see much of Murphy unless something happens to/with Sheed or Amile (the way they're playing now, they will only come out for breathers).

And, yeah, Kellogg is a tool.

[60's Devil]

Kudos to Amile for trying to take it to the hoop. At least he's getting some free throws. Mason seems out-manned, shooting the old fade away. Got to improve defensive rebounding in the second half. Hopefully our threes will continue to fall since the prospects don't look so good inside. Cook looking much better today.

[dairedevil]

Anybody have any information on his injury and how much it is holding him back. In the last few games, it seems that a lot of his offense consists of standing around the 3 pt line. Is he trying to save his leg so he can keep playing? Or has this been a major component of his offense all along and I've just noticed it more? It doesn't seem like he's driving for layups much. I know he's never been the quickest on the court, and I can't help but feel that the leg is slowing him down even more. Here's hoping that he can get more involved soon.

[Phoenix22]

Sulaiman The Magnificent! 5 for 5 from downtown! Shazam!

[rocketeli]

Anybody have any information on his injury and how much it is holding him back. In the last few games, it seems that a lot of his offense consists of standing around the 3 pt line. Is he trying to save his leg so he can keep playing? Or has this been a major component of his offense all along and I've just noticed it more? It doesn't seem like he's driving for layups much. I know he's never been the quickest on the court, and I can't help but feel that the leg is slowing him down even more. Here's hoping that he can get more involved soon.

He's missing Ryan Kelly. The 6 foot 5 inch athletic guy that used to have to guard Ryan is now guarding Curry since Ryan went out and it hurts his production. Here comes the second half. First half not all that impressive for us-we mostly made a living on RS getting hot/unguarded and MD's strange decision to push the pace (do they always do this?) I say strange due to the fact that they are less talented underdogs playing away from home and are good on defense and poor on offense. You'd think they would want to limit possessions.

[Durham Thunder]

I don't just mean that in terms of his playing time. What happened to all those reports of how what a high-motor guy Marshall is? I haven't seen any reports about his ankle injury nagging him. So why is it that Marshall gets 3 minutes/game, and when he's in he has very little motor at all?

[slower]

Kudos to Amile for trying to take it to the hoop.

Definitely. But it's almost cringe-inducing when you see that it's going to be "contested." More muscle next year will help him., But, yeah, love the kid.

And I know this will be blasphemy around here, but I don't know that Mason has earned the right to keep demanding the ball. I mean, Cook basically waved him off a few minutes ago when he was calling for it. If Mason's going to keep using the same 2 or 3 moves, why waste a possession on another brick-hook? As I said, I know that's almost blasphemy to say so, but Mason's forays around the rim suck the life out of too many possessions.

[Les Grossman]

but I sure am enjoying those yellow socks on the Twerps

[sporthenry]

For as much as we criticize Mason. He is shooting 4-6 from the floor against a very good Len. Would like to see him get a bit more aggressive but he isn't taking bad shots.

And perhaps one of the more underrated parts of the ACC is their frontcourt between Len, Reggie Johnson, and NC State. Granted some teams have that kind of size like KU but Mason probably won't see any more talented front courts in March.

[Furniture]

Amile is not a big but he stands up fairly well....

[slower]

Mason - 3-pointer? Really? Sit him down. For a minute, at least.

[sporthenry]

Mason - 3-pointer? Really? Sit him down.

Wasn't a 3 pointer. It was foul line extended and I feel like that was probably the coaching staff telling him to shoot the first one, so he shot that one. And Mason is too valuable. Marshall looks like Miles or Mason their freshman year.

[grad_devil]

Mason - 3-pointer? Really? Sit him down. For a minute, at least.

And the bad part was he was just inside the line! Worst shot in basketball...especially when it's Mason :)

[slower]

Wasn't a 3 pointer

It was WAY beyond his range, wherever it was.

[noworries]

Safe to say that Rasheed is out of his slump?

[Ben1029]

We may not see much of Murphy unless something happens to/with Sheed or Amile (the way they're playing now, they will only come out for breathers).
And, yeah, Kellogg is a tool.

I would have thought after Murphy's performance in the Miami game might have earned him some minutes today, but the way those two are playing it doesn't look like it.

[bedeviled]

I don't know that Mason has earned the right to keep demanding the ball. I mean, Cook basically waved him off a few minutes ago when he was calling for it.If you are referring to the time I'm thinking of, after waving off the post-feed, Quinn then ran a pick-and-roll for Mason (which wasn't completed as Len pushed the pass out of bounds).

Mason - 3-pointer? Really? Sit him down. For a minute, at least.I was shocked by that one, too. Considering there was zero need for it and he hasn't done that all year, I'm thinking K probably specifically told him to take a shot to force the defense to consider it. But, even in that scenario, I don't think K meant a 3pter!!

[sporthenry]

I will say that for the first time in a while, I'm watching games to see how Duke plays and the score is secondary. But Duke looks pretty good. Starting to develop an offense without Kelly. Amile looks pretty good finishing in contact and Mason is having a good game as well.

[bedeviled]

I'm thinking K probably specifically told him to take a shot to force the defense to consider it.My apologies for quoting myself:rolleyes: Whether K called for it or not, it does appear that Mason's long shot was a conscious decision. Mason had back-to-back face-up plays set up by that previous shot (one play was a drive and the next was a shot fake with an up-and-under).

[CDu]

I don't just mean that in terms of his playing time. What happened to all those reports of how what a high-motor guy Marshall is? I haven't seen any reports about his ankle injury nagging him. So why is it that Marshall gets 3 minutes/game, and when he's in he has very little motor at all?

Not sure what games you're watching, but "motor" is about the only thing Marshall has shown when he's played. He does everything all-out. It's just that he hasn't figured out how to control that frenetic energy into something productive on the court.

[sporthenry]

Not sure what games you're watching, but "motor" is about the only thing Marshall has shown when he's played. He does everything all-out. It's just that he hasn't figured out how to control that frenetic energy into something productive on the court.

Agreed. When he first went in, he provided some energy but then he was exposed. He took some steps like his brothers used to. He tried to finish an alley-oop when he should have come down with it and he doubled the dribbler and left Len wide open for a 3 point play. I'd like to see him a bit more in this game just to get experience for when Mason gets in foul trouble but I guess the hope is Kelly gets healthy.

[dairedevil]

They just put up a graphic to show that Maryland has 22 points from their bench and Duke only has 2!!! Somehow they neglected the point that the terps only have one starter in double figures and Duke has 4, with the fifth only needing one basket...that really gave a true picture of the game, huh?

[WakeDevil]

When did the continuation rule become a part of college basketball?

[Ben1029]

They just put up a graphic to show that Maryland has 22 points from their bench and Duke only has 2!!! Somehow they neglected the point that the terps only have one starter in double figures and Duke has 4, with the fifth only needing one basket...that really gave a true picture of the game, huh?

They didn't comment on your point because Clark was busy saying something about David Letterman. I think.

[dairedevil]

They didn't comment on your point because Clark was busy saying something about David Letterman. I think.

Well, I'm not really listening to the commentary ;)

[Utley]

OMG - where does that dunk rank?

[CDu]

They just put up a graphic to show that Maryland has 22 points from their bench and Duke only has 2!!! Somehow they neglected the point that the terps only have one starter in double figures and Duke has 4, with the fifth only needing one basket...that really gave a true picture of the game, huh?

They mentioned earlier that we have all five starters in double-figures.

[grad_devil]

OMG - where does that dunk rank?

That was sick. Just sick.

Hate that MP2 had to jaw at that kid afterward - lessened the impact. I'd put that dunk in the "mythic" category

[Les Grossman]

How to jump start the POY buzz

[Ben1029]

Well, I'm not really listening to the commentary ;)

I have the sound on so I can hear "Not our rivals"

[CDu]

That putback reverse dunk was the sickness. Mason wasn't going to let Len have the best dunk of the day!

[slower]

OMG - where does that dunk rank?

WAY up there :D

[Les Grossman]

has played well, and when he does, things click for this team

[slower]

Hope Cook is okay