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hurleyfor3
01-17-2013, 11:17 PM
Discuss....

superdave
01-17-2013, 11:21 PM
Ok, I will dicuss!

Mason was slow and lacked energy in the first half. He was not explosive. He finished plays, was aggressive in seeking the ball and exploded to the rim in 2nd half. I wonder why he started so slow?

Rasheed seems to have taken a step forward after his recent slump. Amile seems to have taken a biiiig step forward and looks like a rotation guy.

The refs could not stay in the back ground tonight. Blah. Go away, ACC refs! Just go away.

Super "Enjoyed K's leap" Dave

roywhite
01-17-2013, 11:29 PM
Been said before, but this is a different team without Ryan Kelly. We have to work harder to get good shots. Strange for mid-January, but we're a work in progress for now. Trying different combinations and personnel.

One thing that does work well is Seth Curry shooting. He's got a great touch and great range, is smart with the ball; he works well off screens and can also use a change of pace, and step back to get himself some room. He's a real weapon, especially when he's hot.

Really good contributions from the two freshmen, Sheed on the comeback and Amile emerging.

jipops
01-17-2013, 11:34 PM
This was the game Rasheed needed.

I thought Mason was aggressive, he just struggled with the physical play as he has at times this season. It really seemed to frustrate him. He got it going when a couple hooks started to fall. Carter really got to him though.

Curry was just outstanding. The best play was his offensive rebound and put back off Mason's miss, followed by that step back 3.

Yet another solid outing boxscore-wise by Amile (did he get the start tonight?, my satellite feed went out). He still made some defensive mistakes on cuts but his work on the boards was great and that move to the basket at the end of the half was terrific. I've got to think he is the clear starter from now on until we get Kelly back.

Philadukie
01-17-2013, 11:36 PM
Glad to see a strong second half after one of the worst first halves that I can remember.

A strong positive of the last two games is Jefferson's play. He just has an absolute nose for the ball and the basket. I really love his game. I think he should start going forward and, if Kelly comes back (Goodman's comments are encouraging), he should be the 6th man to ease Kelly back in. He just needs to keep the fouling down. But if he's playing with confidence going into the post-season, it will make us even stronger than before Kelly went out (assuming Kelly returns to form).

Good to see Rasheed get some buckets. Much needed.

Curry just went off. Don't know how he does it without practicing.

All teams have bumps along the way and go through rough stretches. It's a long season. This is ours. We may drop a few more on the road, but things could still come together again like they did in November.

DukieInBrasil
01-17-2013, 11:38 PM
Am i alone in thinking that Amile will get the nod to start instead of Hairston going forward?

I don't know what was going on in the 1st half, but that was dismal. The 2nd half was a big improvement, in which we looked pretty good at times.

I sure hope we don't start out any more games like that, we may not beat many other ACC teams playing like that.

Saratoga2
01-17-2013, 11:38 PM
1st Half

Pretty awful. Coach K started Tyler and Josh along with Quinn, Mason and Seth. The strategy appeared to go into Mason. For another game, Mason didn't handle the physical play and the refs were letting them play. Mason threw up bricks and turned the ball over. The team seemed to lack any chemistry and was struggling to score. When Amile and Rasheed came in, the play improved and some of the early deficit was made up.

2nd half

Quinn, Rasheed, Seth, Amile and Mason seemed to have much more chemistry and the threes started to drop along with solid play out of Mason. Good enough for a 16 point win. Both halves need to be played effectively to beat better teams.


The good coming out of the game?
1. Seth continues to be a real baller and scorer. Hope he can stay healthy!
2. Rasheed had a comeback game as he started to get his shot back. Very positive sign for the team
3. Amile has shown he deserves to start until Ryan comes back. He had a very solid game for a freshman. The team does better with his energy and fight.
4. Mason showed he can get it done. The mystery is why is he so hot and cold in the two halves?

We are a good team without Ryan, but are we a championship caliber team?

jipops
01-17-2013, 11:40 PM
Been said before, but this is a different team without Ryan Kelly. We have to work harder to get good shots. Strange for mid-January, but we're a work in progress for now. Trying different combinations and personnel.

One thing that does work well is Seth Curry shooting. He's got a great touch and great range, is smart with the ball; he works well off screens and can also use a change of pace, and step back to get himself some room. He's a real weapon, especially when he's hot.

Really good contributions from the two freshmen, Sheed on the comeback and Amile emerging.

Very, very different team, dramatically different at both ends. Decent shots seem hard to come by for this group. I hope we continue to give Mason as many touches as possible. He kicks it back out so well along with providing that threat to score. Defensively it's more of a challenge. I did like the fact that we forced a lot of turnovers tonight.

PSurprise
01-17-2013, 11:50 PM
I think we got very lucky playing GT tonight and not a middle-of-the-pack or upper-tier ACC team. Good scheduling by K.
I liked the ball movement for most of the game, but this game really brought out how much we miss Ryan and his spacing issues he causes. Four our "4" to be able to step outside and hit the open 3 or 18-footer really opens up the lane for Mason to work. Unfortunately, when Amile or Josh are in, defenses know they're not looking to score (or heaven forbid shoot the 18-footer), so they can lay off and help on Mason. We also miss his size as well on the boards, although once again I thought Amile more than held his own inside, especially with those go-go-gadget arms!
One question, I haven't looked at the box score-Did Mason play the entire game? Every time I look at him now, I just think to myself, 'Don't get hurt, don't get hurt'. I would love to see if Marshall can step up and take a few quality minutes to get Mason a break.

-bdbd
01-17-2013, 11:51 PM
I think that this was just the right kind of medicine for us. Tech fought hard, in fact leading most of the first half. Duke had to fight, and I think the kids are seeing that they can still fight back even w/o Kelly around. My personal impression is that each of them will have to (and are) do a bit extra towards that end.
- Rasheed seemed to come out of his funk a bit, playing a great all-around game. I like that he is again asserting himself, aided by superior athleticism.
- Mason had a terrible, tentative first half. Obviously something was said to him at halftime, as he came out in the second half more assertive and fighting/finishing much better. Hopefully he will eventually be able to provide that fight/fire on his own, w/o coaches needed to help. He has so much ability.
- Seth played the kind of game we've learned to expect from him. He's just so composed, and clutch. It is amazing the work that he's doing on so little practice.
- Who isn't loving seeing Amile starting to come into his own. It is great to see him using his length and aggressiveness to fight for rebounds and pick up those "garbage" baskets near the basket. MP2 really needs that help down low that he provides. Now if we can just stop his "Daniel Ewing impersonation" -- collecting phantom fouls. These refs seem to be anticipating fouls by him, and blowing the whistle regardless.

Overall I was really please with Duke's fight late in the first and, especially, early in the second.

BTW, anyone aware of what was going on between Thornton and the GT player with the blue-tinged wrap around his shoulder? Double T, for what?? (with 1:05 to play ???!) :rolleyes:

roywhite
01-17-2013, 11:51 PM
Official Boxscore (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=206013860)

Mason 7-20
Amile 6 offensive rebounds, 10 total
Quinn another steady day's work at the point -- 38 minutes 5 assists 2 turnovers 3 steals
Seth 6-7 from 3-points...wow

Some nice spurts and some good defense....Tech had 21 turnovers

superdave
01-17-2013, 11:51 PM
We are a good team without Ryan, but are we a championship caliber team?

No, not even close. Ryan might even be more of a key to our defense than offense this year. It's a multiplier effect with him in there on both ends. More space, better shooting on O. More blocks, better discipline on D.

Kedsy
01-17-2013, 11:54 PM
11:34pm:
Yet another solid outing boxscore-wise by Amile (did he get the start tonight?, my satellite feed went out). He still made some defensive mistakes on cuts but his work on the boards was great and that move to the basket at the end of the half was terrific. I've got to think he is the clear starter from now on until we get Kelly back.

11:36pm:
A strong positive of the last two games is Jefferson's play. He just has an absolute nose for the ball and the basket. I really love his game. I think he should start going forward...

11:38pm:
Am i alone in thinking that Amile will get the nod to start instead of Hairston going forward?[/b]


Sorry, dude. You weren't even alone among people who posted in this thread over the five minute period prior to your question.

roywhite
01-18-2013, 12:00 AM
BTW, anyone aware of what was going on between Thornton and the GT player with the blue-tinged wrap around his shoulder? Double T, for what?? (with 1:05 to play ???!) :rolleyes:

Don't recall who the Tech player was, but it involved some yapping AFTER the two players were separated by the ref (Jamie Lucky, I believe)

Josh and Tyler are becoming the Bruise Brothers -- not scoring, but very physical, lots of fouls

If Tyler is on your team -- he's tough, scrappy
If he's on the other team -- dirty, thuggish

cptnflash
01-18-2013, 12:07 AM
Glad we won, but don't feel like I learned anything about our team that we didn't already know. Mason's post moves still need a lot of work. Seth can really shoot. Amile is a foul magnet but otherwise has many great qualities on the court. [Redacted text] Rasheed is really good. Georgia Tech is not good at all. We need Ryan back. Check.

Kedsy
01-18-2013, 12:10 AM
In the first half I thought Mason was setting up much farther from the basket than he did earlier in the season, which forced him to make a move to get close and then a second move to score. Which is hard to do and he didn't do it that well and appeared to get frustrated. In the 2nd half he set up a bit closer, and things worked more easily for him and he appeared to regain his confidence. Not sure if my observation (vis a vis prior games) is accurate, nor (if it is accurate) why nobody said anything to him. Either way, it takes maturity to come out and dominate the 2nd half the way he did after his clunker of a first half.

Amile 28 minutes, Josh 11. It certainly seems as if Amile has passed Josh on the depth chart. He knows how to score and has a great nose for the ball on rebounds. His defense has a long way to go, however.

Only 14 minutes for Tyler, which seems a bit odd. He didn't play that well, so maybe it was a one game blip. But he only played 19 minutes against State, too, which is closer to his season average but still below (he was averaging 22 mpg until Ryan got hurt). It's tough to play with two guys out of five who provide so little offense, so perhaps this could be a continuing trend.

Kedsy
01-18-2013, 12:11 AM
Don't recall who the Tech player was, but it involved some yapping AFTER the two players were separated by the ref (Jamie Lucky, I believe)

For what it's worth, the Duke technical was assessed to Quinn, not Tyler.

wallyman
01-18-2013, 12:33 AM
Two best things about tonight:

1. Seth's remarkable show of reslience. Not sure how he's doing it, but what a performance. Guess there's never gonna be a unanimous MOTM, but hard to see how anyone could vote for anyone else tonight.

2. Amile's tough performance, especially on the offensive and defensive boards. Only good thing to come out of Kelly's absence is Amile showing he's ready to contribute right now. Wish Alex and Marshall were showing a bit more as well given the need for people to step up.

Also, of course, great to see Rasheed come back to life in a big way. That said, Georgia Tech is horrible. With Ryan, we're a scary team. Without Ryan we're a scary team, too. But not in a good way. Hard to imagine a happy ending to this season unless he comes back at full strength well before March. Hoping the Duke docs can work their magic.

licc85
01-18-2013, 12:41 AM
meh . . I don't think it's any huge leap at all to assume that Amile just played his way ahead of Josh on our depth chart. Josh has his uses, mainly as guy who can come in and be an obstacle to the basket, by either taking a charge or committing the hard foul. No way he should continue to start, I think most would agree. No need to discuss that further, in my opinion.

We should instead focus on the positives we saw from Amile tonight. He's clearly taking a big step forward, and is a guy I think we can count on to come off the bench to bring some energy and rebounding. I really hope he continues to get better, and if he can put on some muscle over the offseason, I could see him being the starting center next year in a very athletic, very mobile lineup with Jabari, Rodney, Rasheed, and Quinn. That's just a fast break waiting to happen.

DBFAN
01-18-2013, 12:49 AM
I think the team did just fine. I think what we saw in the first half was the staff trying out different combinations trying to figure out what was gonna work. I noticed how calm K was in the first half even when they looked horrible. He knows it takes time for diff lineups to get adjusted to one another. I expect with another 5 days of working with each other we will see a better effort in the first half against Miami. No panic here

roywhite
01-18-2013, 12:51 AM
Certainly agree that Ryan has been very important to this team, that it's not nearly the same team without him, and we really want him to return and regain his good form in order to get the most out of this season.

However, in the meantime (and who knows....this could be 2 or 3 weeks or it could be the rest of the season) this team without Ryan is capable of growth and improvement. Some areas can be as strong or even stronger.

Mason and Seth -- they remain the foundation; must continue to play at a high level, and up their scoring a bit in Ryan's absence
Quinn -- his role as a PG changes somewhat; he has to run more offensive sets to compensate for Ryan's loss; and also look for his own shot at times
Sheed -- continue to work; he was solid tonight; needs to contribute in many ways even when his shots aren't falling
Amile -- an opportunity on the upside here; offensive rebounding can become a strength for this team; needs to work on defense, more awareness, fewer fouls
Tyler, Josh, Alex, Marshall -- role players, be ready, work hard
Team defense -- even more of a priority; more ball pressure needed, more turnovers forced

To my mind, this team will be very interesting to watch and support even in Ryan's absence; it's part of the journey. Who better to guide this group than Coach K -- the old master will do his best to get the most out of this team. Where else do we see a coach of his age and stature jumping on to his star big man for a hug during a game....classic.

Billy Dat
01-18-2013, 01:27 AM
A couple other thoughts...

-Seth's shooting was really otherworldly. Some of the posters made a big deal about it, but I don't know if we are praising it as much as we should be. I guess it shows how much we come to expect it. He was unconscious, and we needed every one of those.

-I felt like we got more in transition tonight, especially in the last 10 minutes, then we have the rest of the season.

-As painful as some of the new 5 mans look on offense, especially when Curry is out, the defense is that much worse in those situations. Most of those weird 5 mans - I remember one with Mason, Marshall and Alex - happened in the first half. Our D was much much better in the second.

-K talked a lot in the presser about how these new line-ups are a big adjustment for Quinn. I thought he handled it pretty well, I just wish he'd stop basically flinging prayer lobs at the rim 2-3 times per game.

-Miller, Bolden and Carter are a nice nucleus for Tech. I thought they could have gone to Miller more often.

licc85
01-18-2013, 01:32 AM
A couple other thoughts...

-Seth's shooting was really otherworldly. Some of the posters made a big deal about it, but I don't know if we are praising it as much as we should be. I guess it shows how much we come to expect it. He was unconscious, and we needed every one of those.

Yeah, the Curry family's unreal shooting ability is clearly genetic. We better hop on the the recruiting trail in 2035 when Del's grandchildren are playing their high school ball. Just gotta convince Stephen to send his kids our way and not over to Davidson.

BlueDevilBaby
01-18-2013, 01:35 AM
Entire first half, Mason was going straight up. Second half he used shot fake and drop step to much more effect, not to mention getting hooks closer to the hoop as previously mentioned. Seth, you are AMAZING! All said, i voted for Amile for his energy, rebounds, scoring, and defense. Kudos to Rasheed for bouncing back.

Channing
01-18-2013, 07:16 AM
If you can excuse the extreme hyperbole, I saw shades of Dennis Rodman in Amile yesterday while Amile was on the glass. He just has an ability to get in good rebounding position, and when he can't get to the ball he manages to tap it. He looked nothing like Rodman on offense though. That fake handoff and drive to close the first half was a sweet play and also huge momentum wise!

Billy Dat
01-18-2013, 08:33 AM
That fake handoff and drive to close the first half was a sweet play and also huge momentum wise!

That was sublime, and eerily similar to the same play from the same spot that Lebron made in the final minutes of the 2012 Olympic Gold Medal Game against Spain, although Lebron took about two power dribbles, rose up, and flushed it like the hoop owed him money.

davekay1971
01-18-2013, 08:42 AM
That was a great second half. Especially in the context of the recent loss to State, and such a listless first half, the way the team came out in the second half and played with aggression and confidence was spectacular. Kudos to Rasheed and Mason for responding to struggles by increasing their determination and aggressiveness.

Seth Curry...I hope everyone is appreciating what he's doing this year. To be able to play at the level he's playing, and to play seamlessly within the offense, without practicing, is unbelievable. It shows the value of a veteran player, but not even many veteran players could do what Seth is doing. And, I guarantee you, he's playing through some pain. I'm sure, after playing his butt off in the first half and then sitting for 20 minutes at halftime, he comes out for the second half and he can feel that leg. He's playing some of the smartest, toughest basketball I've seen in awhile. And he's a great scorer. I'm not sure where we'd be this year without Seth.

Agreed with just about everyone on this thread that Amile is playing, or has played, his way into the starting lineup. He's got a great attitude and great energy, rebounds well, and has some moves on offense close to the basket.

mr. synellinden
01-18-2013, 08:51 AM
If you can excuse the extreme hyperbole, I saw shades of Dennis Rodman in Amile yesterday while Amile was on the glass. He just has an ability to get in good rebounding position, and when he can't get to the ball he manages to tap it. He looked nothing like Rodman on offense though. That fake handoff and drive to close the first half was a sweet play and also huge momentum wise!

I posted something similar (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?30220-MBB-Duke-vs-Georgia-Tech-Pre-Game-and-In-Game-Thread&p=618705#post618705) in the in-game thread. Rodman came to mind while watching him last night.

tbyers11
01-18-2013, 08:53 AM
In the first half I thought Mason was setting up much farther from the basket than he did earlier in the season, which forced him to make a move to get close and then a second move to score. Which is hard to do and he didn't do it that well and appeared to get frustrated. In the 2nd half he set up a bit closer, and things worked more easily for him and he appeared to regain his confidence.

I think Kedsy makes a key point here that I would like to expand upon. On top of getting the ball closer to the hoop in the 2nd half, Mason was backing his defender down with the dribble, squaring up his shoulder and then shooting the hook. In the first half, he was starting his move in more of a facing the basket stance and using the sweeping hook across the lane. I've seen Mason make both types of hooks but feel (no stats here) that he is better at the type of hook shot he was taking in the second half.

Backing your defender down obviously takes more time and is easier for the defense to bring a double-team against. At the start of the second half, Tech wasn't bringing the double that they brought frequently in the first half. I'm not sure (I'd have to watch again) if Duke was running sets that made more difficult to for Tech to double or the flow of play made it difficult for Tech to do so but it was effective for Mason.

Other thoughts:
- Physical play was allowed down low with the bigs. You had to assault the offensive post player (which Carter did once in the 2nd half) to have a body foul called. This affected Mason and he got frustrated and made some bad decisions at the end of the first half on when to shoot or pass out.
- I don't think any of our players showed a lack of hustle or fight in the first half. I think they were trying too hard individually to prove that we could score without Kelly. Mason and Quinn seemed to force a few things early in the shot clock instead of moving the ball and likely getting a better shot.
- GTech is a very good defensive team. After last night, they are 17th in Defensive Eff (Pomeroy). Particularly in the post, they made tough for us to get good looks. Still, we got a fair share in the first half and just didn't make them.
- Thankfully, GTech is a very bad offensive team. Our defense in the first 15 minutes was quite bad, particularly against GT pushing the ball and getting quick shots against the secondary break. Our D picked up big time the last 5 minutes and the start of the 2nd half
- All things being equal foul-wise, Amile should get about twice as many minutes as Josh until Ryan "hopefully" comes back. His energy. long arms and finishing skills offset a team D lapse here or there
-Great to see Rasheed hit two tough corner 3's in the first half to get his confidence back. His first one was one of the key shots of the game as we were down 26-19 and in the middle of a long FG drought.
- Seth was a stone-cold killer in the second half. We made a big push behind Mason early in the second half but without Seth's deadly shooting (and offensive rebound putbacks ;)) it would have been a close game (5 pt lead or so) most of the second half instead of a comfortable 10-15 pt lead most of the 2nd half

pfrduke
01-18-2013, 08:58 AM
Seth Curry...I hope everyone is appreciating what he's doing this year. To be able to play at the level he's playing, and to play seamlessly within the offense, without practicing, is unbelievable. It shows the value of a veteran player, but not even many veteran players could do what Seth is doing. And, I guarantee you, he's playing through some pain. I'm sure, after playing his butt off in the first half and then sitting for 20 minutes at halftime, he comes out for the second half and he can feel that leg. He's playing some of the smartest, toughest basketball I've seen in awhile. And he's a great scorer. I'm not sure where we'd be this year without Seth.

Just think how good he'd be if he showed some competitive fire and stopped fooling around with his mouthpiece (said with tongue planted firmly in cheek).

tbyers11
01-18-2013, 09:09 AM
Just think how good he'd be if he showed some competitive fire and stopped fooling around with his mouthpiece (said with tongue planted firmly in cheek).

If your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek would that make it more difficult to have one's mouth guard dangling out of one's mouth? :confused:

Seriously, what Seth is doing on severely limited practice time is astounding. I don't understand how people can try and make comments about the drive or "fire" of Duke players from a few random close-ups throughout a telecast. If you aren't seeing these guys practice and play in person day and day out I think these types of judgments are impossible to rationally make.

BlueDevilinNYC
01-18-2013, 09:19 AM
Something that the commentators said last night really caught my attention: Before last night, Duke was 0-3 in its last three games played without Ryan Kelly (FSU in ACCT, Lehigh in NCAAT, NCSU last week).

In my opinion, this may have been more of a confidence boost for the team than any other game, (even with the poor first half).

moonpie23
01-18-2013, 09:27 AM
totally agree with that.......last night this team made inroads on how to play as THIS team and get a better flow going....


dynamics are everything when playing together... I was really glad to see that they started to get it going......of course, it didn't hurt big mo that Seth was the Tech's dream assassin last night...

azzefkram
01-18-2013, 10:30 AM
I haven't followed Tech but the announcers said that they've been competitive in all their ACC losses so I'll take a 16pt ACC win regardless of how ugly the first half looked. I think some posters are selling this team short without Ryan. Ryan is a huge loss no doubt, but you take a top 3 player off of any team with for all intents and purposes a 6-man rotation there will be a period of adjustment. Duke has the players to overcome Ryan's absence. Will Duke be as good? Nope, but they are still a championship caliber team.

Jderf
01-18-2013, 12:47 PM
Seriously, what Seth is doing on severely limited practice time is astounding. I don't understand how people can try and make comments about the drive or "fire" of Duke players from a few random close-ups throughout a telecast. If you aren't seeing these guys practice and play in person day and day out I think these types of judgments are impossible to rationally make.

We talkin about practice!? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI)

Astonished that this reference hasn't come up yet.

Saratoga2
01-18-2013, 01:12 PM
If you can excuse the extreme hyperbole, I saw shades of Dennis Rodman in Amile yesterday while Amile was on the glass. He just has an ability to get in good rebounding position, and when he can't get to the ball he manages to tap it. He looked nothing like Rodman on offense though. That fake handoff and drive to close the first half was a sweet play and also huge momentum wise!

For those guys old enough to remember him, I think Amile is more in the mold of Cornbread. He was about the same size and seemed to have great court presence.

roywhite
01-18-2013, 01:31 PM
For those guys old enough to remember him, I think Amile is more in the mold of Cornbread. He was about the same size and seemed to have great court presence.

Not sure we want to use Cornbread....he loves to rip Duke and Coach K.

Amile reminds me a bit of Tony Lang; there may be players from other schools that would be a better comparison.

Amile has a lot to work on before becoming a really good player---in addition to becoming stronger and limiting his fouls, he needs to shoot better from up to 12 feet or so, shoot better from the FT line, and be more aware on team defense. These are all things that can come with coaching and hard work --- he is a really intriguing player who can be very good.

Bluedog
01-18-2013, 02:06 PM
For what it's worth, the Duke technical was assessed to Quinn, not Tyler.

And Coach K had some choice words for Quinn afterward if you can read lips...I can decipher it for you if you want, but wouldn't be appropriate to post publicly. ;)

Lar77
01-18-2013, 03:23 PM
We were disjointed in the first half, more trying to figure out what to do than doing it. Mason had a tough half, his shots were soft but just not falling. Liked Amile's play, but my only conern is that Tech's bruisers were backing him in. He has great positioning ability and energy (Quinn had to pull him away before a ref T'd him him for a stare down). Speaking of refs, what are they doing? They called touch fouls on the outside and let the inside guys have a wrestling match.


Seth is one of the great assasins at Duke. He looks so unassuming out there but when he sends it up, it goes in. The 3 he hit just before the 35 ran out was just sick. GT was done after that. Except why foul with 13 seconds left? So we can beat the point spread?


Miami will be a good test for this team without Ryan. We will have had some practice time and a chance to try lineups in games. I like the idea of Amile starting instead of Josh, who I think is better coming in off the bench.

gumbomoop
01-18-2013, 04:19 PM
Miami will be a good test for this team without Ryan. We will have had some practice time and a chance to try lineups in games. I like the idea of Amile starting instead of Josh, who I think is better coming in off the bench.

I'm certain that the lineup issue will be discussed a lot in a Miami pregame thread next week. But it's hard to wait, as rehashing last night's GT game naturally involves thoughts re Josh, Amile, Rasheed, Tyler, i.e., the 4-7 guys in Ryan's absence.

I have thought that K would continue to start Josh ahead of Amile, in part to recognize Josh's service to the team for 2 and 1/2 years. Still, I do not deny the assertion asserted by dozens of posters over the years, the K plays the guys who show best in practice. I still think this is a delicate situation, but Amile sure played more effectively than Josh last night.

I don't sense any such delicate situation re Tyler's start over Rasheed, though logically the situations are similar, involving a junior and a frosh. But here of course the junior has been the 6th man anyway, and the frosh has been impressive, until he hit a wall, or something.

So I don't know who'll start at the 3 and 4 v. Miami. I sort of like the idea of Rasheed and Amile providing a big boost off the bench, and Miami plays 3 guards at all times on the perimeter. Granted 3 of their rotating perimeter guards are much taller than Tyler and Seth, and a bit taller than Rasheed.

As Lar77 says, Duke will be tested, as Miami has played more games without Reggie than has Duke without Ryan. And it's in Miami; it's the Canes' 2d ACC home game, and Duke's 2d ACC road game. And Duke gets everyone's best shot. And, IMO, if Miami pulls out a win, they are 5-0, with 3 road wins, and the rising favorite to win the ACC regular season. Both teams will be well rested, so it's a fair test of who should be at the top after 5 games. [Actually NCSt should be 5-1 even before the Duke-Miami game, so if NCSt avoids a big upset by Clemson or Wake, only Miami has a chance to be atop the standings after the D-M game.]

Kedsy
01-18-2013, 04:25 PM
So I don't know who'll start at the 3 and 4 v. Miami. I sort of like the idea of Rasheed and Amile providing a big boost off the bench, and Miami plays 3 guards at all times on the perimeter. Granted 3 of their rotating perimeter guards are much taller than Tyler and Seth, and a bit taller than Rasheed.

I think you're overthinking things. I strongly doubt reward for years of service comes into play in these decisions. Rasheed didn't start for the same reason Austin didn't start the Wake game last year. Both Rasheed and Austin roared back and had great games in their sole non-start and, like Austin did, I assume Rasheed will jump back into the starting lineup (assuming he practices well over the next week).

The other position is a bit trickier, but Amile played 28 minutes to Josh's 11 against Ga Tech and he started the 2nd half. Again, assuming he practices well, I'd say the job is now Amile's to lose.

mapei
01-18-2013, 04:44 PM
Back to last night's game, amazingy I had to miss the first half of the second half! Here's what I saw during the rest:

!st half Mason was just awful. Was he being coached to keep trying that same hook shot over and over when it was clear Tech had no trouble stopping it? If not, then why the heck did he keep doing it? Very frustrating to see the guy who was looking like NPOY only 2-3 weeks ago look so ineffective while the team seemed reluctant to attempt any other play. Mason looked ponderous rather than explosive. As everyone has noticed, without Ryan, our good options are really restricted, and Mason isn't as good.

I'm also not sure I buy that Mason is so good at kicking the ball out to an open man. In my dreams, maybe. He only had two assists last night. The one thing he continues to do very, very well is rebound. He's just great at it.

I *loved* Amile last night and wonder where we would have been without him. He seems a lot more versatile than Josh. I voted for him as MOTM, maybe because his performance was surprisingly good, while my expectations are different with Seth. Not that I expect Seth to be consistently good; I actually expect him to be streaky and a little disengaged when the shots aren't falling. But, when he's good, he's very good; Seth shot lights-out in the second (though I missed some of it), and we're lucky that he did.

Quinn was fine, but not noticeably great. Quietly competent for a change.

I was really impressed with the big white guy (Miller?) from Tech.

oldnavy
01-18-2013, 04:47 PM
I think you're overthinking things. I strongly doubt reward for years of service comes into play in these decisions. Rasheed didn't start for the same reason Austin didn't start the Wake game last year. Both Rasheed and Austin roared back and had great games in their sole non-start and, like Austin did, I assume Rasheed will jump back into the starting lineup (assuming he practices well over the next week).

The other position is a bit trickier, but Amile played 28 minutes to Josh's 11 against Ga Tech and he started the 2nd half. Again, assuming he practices well, I'd say the job is now Amile's to lose.

I agree, but there is always the chance that Rasheed may actually be better off the bench. He could still get starter minutes, but some players seem to do better coming off the bench vice starting. I don't really understand it, but it has to be a mindset.

gumbomoop
01-18-2013, 04:53 PM
I think you're overthinking things. I strongly doubt reward for years of service comes into play in these decisions. Rasheed didn't start for the same reason Austin didn't start the Wake game last year. Both Rasheed and Austin roared back and had great games in their sole non-start and, like Austin did, I assume Rasheed will jump back into the starting lineup (assuming he practices well over the next week).

The other position is a bit trickier, but Amile played 28 minutes to Josh's 11 against Ga Tech and he started the 2nd half. Again, assuming he practices well, I'd say the job is now Amile's to lose.

You're right that "reward for service" was badly put. I meant, and should have said, that K probably thinks Josh just knows Duke's O and D better than the younger Amile. I'm more inclined to say the minutes are Amile's to lose.

And re Tyler or Rasheed starting v. Miami, the good news is that neither player will feel "relegated" to 6th man, and each provides real spark off the bench.

Big game for both teams. It feels a little odd to be essentially posting on the Miami pre-thread, but I guess most post-threads evolve into a pre-thread. Mods, help.

jcastranio
01-18-2013, 04:56 PM
I watched Alex closely in his brief, but spirited minutes.

Offensively, I liked the put-back and I even liked the two 3 point tries. I thought they came within the offense and we had some rebounding. They just didn't go down. Aside from that, I thought he stood around too much on the outside. With or without the ball, the defense doesn't have to work hard if you are just standing there. Cut, screen, pass through the lane - something.

Defensively, I see progress. Low stance, focus, etc. However, he seems to my unpracticed eye to still be overthinking the switch or the hedge. He isn't totally smooth with the idea, yet. He forced a turnover on some help defense. Amile seems to commit to an action on defense much quicker and more naturally than Alex.

He came out after getting caught in a double team while we advanced the ball to the frontcourt - we had to call a time-out. Probably partly the guard's fault, too, but Alex presented himself for a pass when, in fact, he was a double team waiting to happen.

I see progress. And you have to have confidence in yourself to take two three-pointers at crucial moments in the game. Make 'em next time.

jcastranio
01-18-2013, 05:01 PM
Mason can be powerful in the paint ... or terrible. On some moves and shots he looks very fluid, on others he seems awkward. My recollection of Keven McHale, in his heyday, was that he had a couple trademark moves and he used them. I think maybe Mason should limit his moves to what he knows works effectively. If his shot doesn't go, he is our prime rebounder and he is out of position (because he shot the ball). If it is not a high percentage shot, we are fast-breaking the other way.

Of course, it could be Mason is just tired splitting his time between Duke and the CBA.

Tappan Zee Devil
01-18-2013, 05:40 PM
Of course, it could be Mason is just tired splitting his time between Duke and the CBA.

ssh ;)

ncexnyc
01-18-2013, 06:28 PM
!st half Mason was just awful. Was he being coached to keep trying that same hook shot over and over when it was clear Tech had no trouble stopping it? If not, then why the heck did he keep doing it? Very frustrating to see the guy who was looking like NPOY only 2-3 weeks ago look so ineffective while the team seemed reluctant to attempt any other play. Mason looked ponderous rather than explosive. As everyone has noticed, without Ryan, our good options are really restricted, and Mason isn't as good.

I'm not sure you can actually say Tech had no trouble stopping Mason's hook shot. I don't recall them actually blocking one.
We ran the offense through Mason and that shot was there the whole night. The only difference was they started to fall in the second half.

Over the past few years we've always had the discussion on this board about the number of three point shot which may have been taken during the course of a game. If they come within the flow of the offense then there isn't anything wrong with them being attempted. I think we can say the same for Mason's attempts last night. The shots were there and he needed to take them.

mike88
01-18-2013, 06:34 PM
Back to last night's game, amazingy I had to miss the first half of the second half! Here's what I saw during the rest:

!st half Mason was just awful. Was he being coached to keep trying that same hook shot over and over when it was clear Tech had no trouble stopping it? If not, then why the heck did he keep doing it? Very frustrating to see the guy who was looking like NPOY only 2-3 weeks ago look so ineffective while the team seemed reluctant to attempt any other play. Mason looked ponderous rather than explosive. As everyone has noticed, without Ryan, our good options are really restricted, and Mason isn't as good.

I'm also not sure I buy that Mason is so good at kicking the ball out to an open man. In my dreams, maybe. He only had two assists last night. The one thing he continues to do very, very well is rebound. He's just great at it.

I *loved* Amile last night and wonder where we would have been without him. He seems a lot more versatile than Josh. I voted for him as MOTM, maybe because his performance was surprisingly good, while my expectations are different with Seth. Not that I expect Seth to be consistently good; I actually expect him to be streaky and a little disengaged when the shots aren't falling. But, when he's good, he's very good; Seth shot lights-out in the second (though I missed some of it), and we're lucky that he did.

Quinn was fine, but not noticeably great. Quietly competent for a change.

I was really impressed with the big white guy (Miller?) from Tech.

It wasn't so much that Tech stopped his hook shot, but more that Mason turns a 6 foot shot into a 12 foot by moving away from the basket on his running hook. He made them in the second half, but those are tough shots- I think he could get easier - the move that got Coach K hyped is what we want to see when he is single-covered. And GT single-covered him most of the night- as such, his opportunities to pass out for assists were lower. I thought he actually did a good job of kicking out when the double-team did come.

mapei
01-18-2013, 06:44 PM
OK, I'll buy that it wasn't Tech that rendered Mason's shot so ineffective. It was Mason himself. I'm not yet buying that they were good shots "that just didn't go down." Many of them weren't close, but just plain ugly. My real point is that I think we needed a plan 1A or plan B when, for whatever reason, the hook was looking ugly and we just kept going to it as if we didn't have anything else in our repertoire (which is obviously untrue).

Don't get me wrong: he's still our best player and earned a lot of slack by his play in November and December. He also still appears to be an oustanding rebounder. But it was painful to watch him be so ineffective.

FerryFor50
01-18-2013, 06:59 PM
OK, I'll buy that it wasn't Tech that rendered Mason's shot so ineffective. It was Mason himself. I'm not yet buying that they were good shots "that just didn't go down." Many of them weren't close, but just plain ugly. My real point is that I think we needed a plan 1A or plan B when, for whatever reason, the hook was looking ugly and we just kept going to it as if we didn't have anything else in our repertoire (which is obviously untrue).

Don't get me wrong: he's still our best player and earned a lot of slack by his play in November and December. He also still appears to be an oustanding rebounder. But it was painful to watch him be so ineffective.

His hook shot is always ugly. But they go in enough to make it an effective shot. Last night, he was off. It happens.

My only beef is that he needs to come up with some complementary moves that build off the hook shot and use them with regularity.

Lar77
01-18-2013, 07:52 PM
I watched Alex closely in his brief, but spirited minutes.

Offensively, I liked the put-back and I even liked the two 3 point tries. I thought they came within the offense and we had some rebounding. They just didn't go down. Aside from that, I thought he stood around too much on the outside. With or without the ball, the defense doesn't have to work hard if you are just standing there. Cut, screen, pass through the lane - something.

Defensively, I see progress. Low stance, focus, etc. However, he seems to my unpracticed eye to still be overthinking the switch or the hedge. He isn't totally smooth with the idea, yet. He forced a turnover on some help defense. Amile seems to commit to an action on defense much quicker and more naturally than Alex.

He came out after getting caught in a double team while we advanced the ball to the frontcourt - we had to call a time-out. Probably partly the guard's fault, too, but Alex presented himself for a pass when, in fact, he was a double team waiting to happen.

I see progress. And you have to have confidence in yourself to take two three-pointers at crucial moments in the game. Make 'em next time.

Good to see these comments. I agree. Murphy came in last night and showed some good minutes. The double team was unfortunate and so what, he burned a time out rather than lose the ball. It's still not flowing, but I've seen some improvement. When he comes in at the 3 spot, we can field a big lineup, which may be helpful depending on Kelly's return date.

Bob Green
01-19-2013, 07:14 AM
Offensively, I liked the put-back and I even liked the two 3 point tries. I thought they came within the offense and we had some rebounding. They just didn't go down.

I agree the 3 point attempts were good shots that just didn't go down. We need Murphy to keep launching the 3 ball as those shots stretch the defense and provide Mason space to operate inside. Murphy's upside will start to show itself more and more as the season progresses.