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View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs. Georgia Tech Pre-Game and In-Game Thread



roywhite
01-15-2013, 05:52 PM
Mods....feel free to change the title to an MBB Pre-game thread if you like

Does Josh start?
I'll say yes

Does Sheed start?
I'll say maybe

Can't rule out a lineup change for one game or more when Sheed goes 0-10 with 0 rebounds and 0 assists and Coach K says

“Really since coming back from Christmas, he really hasn’t played that well in all aspects of the game. He’s been OK, but he hasn’t come close to playing the way he was, and sometimes, especially a younger player, if the ball is not going in, it can have an adverse effect on other aspects of your game, and that might be what’s happening with him."

Thinking back, Coach K benched Austin for one game, right around this time of year. He had 4 points vs Clemson, and didn't start 1/19 vs Wake; he responded well and came off the bench to score 20 points; he started the following game vs Florida State and continued good play with 19 points.

In support of no lineup change involving Sheed:
The lineup is unsettled as it is with the loss of Ryan
The alternatives (start Tyler? Murphy?) aren't necessarily compelling

In support of a lineup change involving Sheed:
Coach K wants to send a message to the player and team
There's a decent interval from the last game and then some time off after that; enough for the staff to hash over changes and then re-evaluate.

Thoughts?

JBDuke
01-15-2013, 06:19 PM
Put your pre-game and in-game thoughts here.

Newton_14
01-15-2013, 09:06 PM
I would expect a shakeup of sorts in the starting line up for this game actually. I think Rasheed sits for the same reason Austin sat last year after the Clemson game. Given the slump, coming off the bench for a game or two may do Rasheed well. One mistake Rasheed has been making lately, and was mentioned by others, is his approach when driving. He is making the fatal mistake of avoiding a blocked shot at all costs. That is a big no no. You have to seek the contact, and go right into the chest of the defender with a mindset of drawing the foul first, and if the shot goes in, view it as a bonus. Go to the line and see the ball go through the hoop. I think Rasheed will snap out of the funk. Just a matter of when.

I would expect the starting line up of Quinn, Seth, Tyler, Josh, Mason. With Rasheed and Amile being first off the bench. Alex will get some burn depending on how Rasheed and Tyler are playing, and how effective Seth is given the injury. If Mason comes out for a breather, Marshall will sub in for him.

Tech seems to be improved. The big kid Miller is playing well, and the team is better defensively. Mfon Udofia is back for his 9th year to provide leadership from the guard spot. ;)

K will probably make some tweaks to the offense to offset the loss of having a shooter at the 4 Spot. I am interested to see what he does there. If we can get strong scoring from Mason, Seth, and Quinn we should be ok offensively. Defensively, Josh and Amile need to defend well w/o fouling.

cptnflash
01-15-2013, 09:16 PM
I would expect the starting line up of Quinn, Seth, Tyler, Josh, Mason. With Rasheed and Amile being first off the bench. Alex will get some burn depending on how Rasheed and Tyler are playing, and how effective Seth is given the injury. If Mason comes out for a breather, Marshall will sub in for him.

Tech seems to be improved. The big kid Miller is playing well, and the team is better defensively. Mfon Udofia is back for this 9th year to provide leadership from the guard spot. ;)

K will probably make some tweaks to the offense to offset the loss of having a shooter at the 4 Spot. I am interested to see what he does there. If we can get strong scoring from Mason, Seth, and Quinn we should be ok offensively. Defensively, Josh and Amile need to defend well w/o fouling.

I'll be very surprised if Tyler, Seth, and Quinn start together. Makes us very small and not particularly athletic on the perimeter, which was a big part of our problem on defense last year. We'd also be offensively challenged at two positions, making it easier for GT to focus on stopping Mason and Seth.

I'm going to bet that we don't see a change to the starting lineup. Rasheed is obviously the guy over the longer term, and Coach K is big on developing units - we have a new starting five for the foreseeable future, and they need game time to develop together.

That being said, if there was ever a game to experiment, this is it. I think we could beat GT with me starting.

Newton_14
01-15-2013, 09:23 PM
I'll be very surprised if Tyler, Seth, and Quinn start together. Makes us very small and not particularly athletic on the perimeter, which was a big part of our problem on defense last year. We'd also be offensively challenged at two positions, making it easier for GT to focus on stopping Mason and Seth.

I'm going to bet that we don't see a change to the starting lineup. But if there was ever a game to experiment, this is it.

I won't. Tyler has been the main backup for all 3 of the perimeter players, and K has used every possible combination with those 4 players in every game. So it won't be the first game where Tyler, Seth, and Quinn are on the floor at the same time. It will just be the first time they started together. If you are going to remove Rasheed from the starting line up for a game or two, it is the only option, based on how K has played it this year. He won't start Amile at the 3 as we need him to back up Josh, and he won't start Alex because Alex is currently not in the regular rotation. So it is either start Rasheed like normal, or start Tyler for Rasheed.

He may start Rasheed, but I will be surprised at that based on K's comments about Rasheed in this weeks Daily DBR clips.

OldSchool
01-16-2013, 12:20 AM
I'm with the camp that thinks there will not be a change in the starting lineup from the State game. And I am sure that Amile will get some good minutes in this game.

I WOULD be interested to see a bit more of the Mason and Marshall lineup that appeared briefly in the State game. I think that has the potential to present some real problems for our opponents if Marshall can play within the proper role for him.

gep
01-16-2013, 01:16 AM
Well... as unconventional as it may have seemed at the time in 2001... Coach K made Chris Dohon start, Nate come off the bench, and had Shane jump to the top of the key against the unc PG. Very unconventional, but well planned. Maybe Coach K and staff will again come up with another unconvetional plan... with Marshall at "C", and Mason roaming the "4" spot.

Or, as one team I heard did... have Mason positioned at the top of the key when the opposing PG comes down the court. Seeing Mason as his first "obstacle" may just frazzle him. At least for a few times...

GO DUKE!!!!

gumbomoop
01-16-2013, 01:18 AM
I gather from the homepage article that K has said something like, "We expect Seth will be ready to play Thurs night."

This is definitely good news in the obvious sense that Seth's ankle sprain from NCSt game was minor. But as I posted on the Seth injury thread, I was/am hoping Seth is held out of the GaTech game, as a super-precaution against further injury, and just to let Seth get more rest in this 10 day period with only 1 game.

I do realize that his ankle might be totally healed from the minor sprain, and that a few extra days of rest might not have any healing effect whatsoever on his longer-term shin splints [or whatever he has]. Nevertheless, it's plausible that the rest would help a little; and I'd be for that, even at the risk of playing GaTech with 2 senior starters missing.

Maybe I'm overthinking and overworrying about Seth's injuries.

licc85
01-16-2013, 02:29 AM
I gather from the homepage article that K has said something like, "We expect Seth will be ready to play Thurs night."

This is definitely good news in the obvious sense that Seth's ankle sprain from NCSt game was minor. But as I posted on the Seth injury thread, I was/am hoping Seth is held out of the GaTech game, as a super-precaution against further injury, and just to let Seth get more rest in this 10 day period with only 1 game.

I do realize that his ankle might be totally healed from the minor sprain, and that a few extra days of rest might not have any healing effect whatsoever on his longer-term shin splints [or whatever he has]. Nevertheless, it's plausible that the rest would help a little; and I'd be for that, even at the risk of playing GaTech with 2 senior starters missing.

Maybe I'm overthinking and overworrying about Seth's injuries.

A game off might not be a bad idea, but Seth is going to play. It's his last year of college basketball. He's not going to sit out. I wouldn't either, if I were him.

Bob Green
01-16-2013, 05:06 AM
I believe Sulaimon's tough perimeter defense might be enough to keep him in the starting line-up. He remains a difference maker on defense even though he is struggling scoring the ball. I'd like to see Coach K allow him to play through his slump.

Tech's Jason Morris is out 2-3 weeks with an injured foot:

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/college/techs-jason-morris-out-2-3-weeks/nTxJh/

CDu
01-16-2013, 09:11 AM
I believe Sulaimon's tough perimeter defense might be enough to keep him in the starting line-up. He remains a difference maker on defense even though he is struggling scoring the ball. I'd like to see Coach K allow him to play through his slump.

Tech's Jason Morris is out 2-3 weeks with an injured foot:

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/college/techs-jason-morris-out-2-3-weeks/nTxJh/

Morris being out certainly hurts their depth at SF. He was the primary backup to Georges-Hunt. The downside is that means more minutes for their leading scorer (Georges-Hunt). They'll also fill in with Bolden and Reed, a pair of 6'3" guards.

Still, this is a Ga Tech team that REALLY struggles to score. They're 234th in the country offensively per Pomeroy. Nobody on the team averages 11ppg, and only 3 guys reach 10 ppg. They don't shoot the 3 well (Morris was their best 3pt shooter; Udofia is the only other good 3pt shooter they have), and they aren't that efficient inside the 3pt line either (only Holsey shoots over 50% from the field).

They are good defensively (19th in Pomeroy), and they are athletic. Miller is a good defensive C, and his size could give Mason some challenges. But I think their inability to score will keep them from threatening us in Cameron.

ChillinDuke
01-16-2013, 09:55 AM
I won't. Tyler has been the main backup for all 3 of the perimeter players, and K has used every possible combination with those 4 players in every game. So it won't be the first game where Tyler, Seth, and Quinn are on the floor at the same time. It will just be the first time they started together. If you are going to remove Rasheed from the starting line up for a game or two, it is the only option, based on how K has played it this year. He won't start Amile at the 3 as we need him to back up Josh, and he won't start Alex because Alex is currently not in the regular rotation. So it is either start Rasheed like normal, or start Tyler for Rasheed.

He may start Rasheed, but I will be surprised at that based on K's comments about Rasheed in this weeks Daily DBR clips.

While I am beginning to resign to the likelihood that Alex won't see meaningful minutes this year, I do wonder why. All normal retorts aside, to my eye his time on the court has seemed to be a cut above the freshmen standard. He seems engaged, has made some level-headed plays, and spreads the floor very well (really gets to the deep corner of the court - where he has made a couple threes).

Amile, to my eye and by contrast, seems to have more pros but also more cons - a level of variance that seems more standard for freshmen.

Perhaps it's because a majority of Alex's minutes have come in garbage time. But I would really like to give him a run and see what happens. Seems like this is a game we may be able to afford it.

- Chillin

CDu
01-16-2013, 09:58 AM
A game off might not be a bad idea, but Seth is going to play. It's his last year of college basketball. He's not going to sit out. I wouldn't either, if I were him.

Agreed. If there's an option to play, I see no way Curry elects to sit out. Especially with a week off afterwards. He has less than 25 games left in his collegiate career, and I'm sure he wants to enjoy every last one of them.

Kedsy
01-16-2013, 11:10 AM
While I am beginning to resign to the likelihood that Alex won't see meaningful minutes this year, I do wonder why. All normal retorts aside, to my eye his time on the court has seemed to be a cut above the freshmen standard. He seems engaged, has made some level-headed plays, and spreads the floor very well (really gets to the deep corner of the court - where he has made a couple threes).

Amile, to my eye and by contrast, seems to have more pros but also more cons - a level of variance that seems more standard for freshmen.

Perhaps it's because a majority of Alex's minutes have come in garbage time. But I would really like to give him a run and see what happens. Seems like this is a game we may be able to afford it.

- Chillin

I don't know. It's just my subjective observation, but to me it looks like the game is a little fast for Alex. He seems a bit frenetic when he's out there. Sort of like Marty Pocius and Olek Czyz looked in their time, although I think Alex is a lot better than either of those guys. Things will slow down for Alex in time and he'll be really good, but I'm not sure it's going to happen this season. Amile is energetic and his defensive positioning needs a lot of work, but the game seems to come to him more slowly. I think he's closer to being ready.

JNort
01-16-2013, 11:17 AM
Well then I guess I am the only one who thinks if their is a lineup change it would be with Alex starting but Rasheed getting most the minutes.

Cook
Seth
Alex
Josh
Mason

Sheed
Tyler
Amile

1st break in the action I would expect Sheed and Tyler come in for Alex and Seth.

gumbomoop
01-16-2013, 12:01 PM
Agreed. If there's an option to play, I see no way Curry elects to sit out. Especially with a week off afterwards. He has less than 25 games left in his collegiate career, and I'm sure he wants to enjoy every last one of them.

It's a good point that you and licc85 make. I'm hoping Duke plays exactly 1 fewer than 25 games the remainder of the season, and that Seth will play in and enjoy all of them - including the very last one - except GaTech.

I've no doubt that there is an option for Seth to play. I hope that option is viable because his ankle is 100% healthy, not 80%.

ChillinDuke
01-16-2013, 12:14 PM
I don't know. It's just my subjective observation, but to me it looks like the game is a little fast for Alex. He seems a bit frenetic when he's out there. Sort of like Marty Pocius and Olek Czyz looked in their time, although I think Alex is a lot better than either of those guys. Things will slow down for Alex in time and he'll be really good, but I'm not sure it's going to happen this season. Amile is energetic and his defensive positioning needs a lot of work, but the game seems to come to him more slowly. I think he's closer to being ready.

I agree that Amile may be closer to ready but perhaps with more variance. But who's to say since it's my subjective observation as well.

I guess my desire to see Alex out there stems more from the fact that with Rasheed struggling, our arguably best 3pt shooter out, a decrease in floor spacing (at least against NC St), and a lack of perimeter height in a lineup featuring Seth-Quinn-Tyler, Alex seems a logical plug in these areas. Not to mention we have Josh who overlaps with Amile in many ways.

I realize that has no bearing on his readiness, though. Perhaps wishful thinking.

- Chillin

pfrduke
01-16-2013, 12:15 PM
Well then I guess I am the only one who thinks if their is a lineup change it would be with Alex starting but Rasheed getting most the minutes.

Cook
Seth
Alex
Josh
Mason

Sheed
Tyler
Amile

1st break in the action I would expect Sheed and Tyler come in for Alex and Seth.

One of the reasons that you may be the only person to think that is that, in all but 2 games (Delaware and Wake), Alex has gotten the fewest minutes of all the players listed above. In terms of minutes (which usually, but does not always, equate to K's confidence in the player), Alex is very clearly 8th on the list. I'm not saying you're wrong, because I obviously have no idea what's in K's head about the starting lineup for tomorrow, but I will say that I think Alex is the least likely choice to start.

Bob Green
01-16-2013, 12:25 PM
Well then I guess I am the only one who thinks if their is a lineup change it would be with Alex starting but Rasheed getting most the minutes.


I'm not saying you're wrong, because I obviously have no idea what's in K's head about the starting lineup for tomorrow, but I will say that I think Alex is the least likely choice to start.

I've already stated I believe Sulaimon will still start, but if Coach K decides to shake up the line-up by sitting the slumping Sulaimon, I am confident either Thornton or Jefferson will be the new starter. I don't see Murphy getting the call; however, what do I know? Not much, I assure you.

ChillinDuke
01-16-2013, 12:38 PM
I've already stated I believe Sulaimon will still start, but if Coach K decides to shake up the line-up by sitting the slumping Sulaimon, I am confident either Thornton or Jefferson will be the new starter. I don't see Murphy getting the call; however, what do I know? Not much, I assure you.

Are you implying a Cook-Curry-Jefferson-Hairston-Plumlee lineup?

Seems pretty clogged for Mase.

- Chillin

Bob Green
01-16-2013, 12:46 PM
Are you implying a Cook-Curry-Jefferson-Hairston-Plumlee lineup?

Seems pretty clogged for Mase.

- Chillin

I agree with you that line-up does not make sense so I'll revise my proposed alternative line-up to either Cook-Curry-Thornton-Hairston-Plumlee or Cook-Curry-Sulaimon-Jefferson-Plumlee. Thanks for straightening me out.

CDu
01-16-2013, 12:52 PM
I've already stated I believe Sulaimon will still start, but if Coach K decides to shake up the line-up by sitting the slumping Sulaimon, I am confident either Thornton or Jefferson will be the new starter. I don't see Murphy getting the call; however, what do I know? Not much, I assure you.

I would be fairly surprised to see Jefferson start at SF alongside Hairston and Plumlee. That just creates huge floor spacing problems, which doesn't do any of those guys any favors. I'd be less surprised Thornton get the start.

My order of likelihood for starter at SF (caveat being that I, too, do not have access to Coach K's brain):
1. Sulaimon
2. Thornton
....
3. Murphy
4. Jefferson

Edit: and, once again, I'm a step slow to the party...

MChambers
01-16-2013, 04:29 PM
I would be fairly surprised to see Jefferson start at SF alongside Hairston and Plumlee. That just creates huge floor spacing problems, which doesn't do any of those guys any favors. I'd be less surprised Thornton get the start.

My order of likelihood for starter at SF (caveat being that I, too, do not have access to Coach K's brain):
1. Sulaimon
2. Thornton
....
3. Murphy
4. Jefferson

Edit: and, once again, I'm a step slow to the party...

How about Thornton, Murphy, Jefferson, MP3 and Patrick Davidson?

CajunDevil
01-16-2013, 05:01 PM
Given K's comments about Rasheed, I think K has 'Sheed come off the bench for Ga. Tech. While I love Suliamon, he needs to be jumpstarted - and I think having him be a sixth man for a few games may just do that.

With that said, I think K goes with Alex at the SF. Alex has played well in the few minutes he's played this year. Alex has the ability to rebound and stretch the defense with his ability to drill the 3. On the defensive end, I haven't noticed any glaring deficiencies in the limited minutes.

At this point, our offense needs to create space for Mason to maneuver as well as have another deep threat that other defenses respect. Tyler can drain an occasional three, but he doesn't strike fear in defenses. I'm not saying Alex does either (not yet at least), but I do think he's got a better stroke and a defender would be less likely to double Mason by leaving Alex than Tyler.

Another need for this team is rebounding. Alex can provide rebounding on the defensive end and has the potential to hit the offensive glass as well. He seems to play bigger than his listed height and has some spring in his legs.

I think K should go with Alex instead of starting Tyler (going small) or starting Hairston (along with Jefferson) and going big. It just makes more sense, until Suliamon starts clicking again - which I hope will be soon.

CDu
01-16-2013, 05:10 PM
Given K's comments about Rasheed, I think K has 'Sheed come off the bench for Ga. Tech. While I love Suliamon, he needs to be jumpstarted - and I think having him be a sixth man for a few games may just do that.

With that said, I think K goes with Alex at the SF. Alex has played well in the few minutes he's played this year. Alex has the ability to rebound and stretch the defense with his ability to drill the 3. On the defensive end, I haven't noticed any glaring deficiencies in the limited minutes.

At this point, our offense needs to create space for Mason to maneuver as well as have another deep threat that other defenses respect. Tyler can drain an occasional three, but he doesn't strike fear in defenses. I'm not saying Alex does either (not yet at least), but I do think he's got a better stroke and a defender would be less likely to double Mason by leaving Alex than Tyler.

Another need for this team is rebounding. Alex can provide rebounding on the defensive end and has the potential to hit the offensive glass as well. He seems to play bigger than his listed height and has some spring in his legs.

I think K should go with Alex instead of starting Tyler (going small) or starting Hairston (along with Jefferson) and going big. It just makes more sense, until Suliamon starts clicking again - which I hope will be soon.

I'll be surprised if Murphy gets the start. I'll actually be surprised if Sulaimon doesn't start (even with K's comments). But I disagree a bit with the rationale for starting Murphy. I don't think it is reasonable to say that Murphy is a better option to spread the floor than Thornton. Thornton is shooting 39% to Murphy's 33%. Murphy would indeed provide more rebounding benefit than Thornton, but he is less sure with the ball and not as good a passer, and he's not as good a defender. So you'd be getting a less efficient 3pt shooter, a less capable defender, a lesser ballhandler/passer, but a better rebounder. I don't think that's the tradeoff we want to make.

vick
01-16-2013, 05:54 PM
I'll be surprised if Murphy gets the start. I'll actually be surprised if Sulaimon doesn't start (even with K's comments). But I disagree a bit with the rationale for starting Murphy. I don't think it is reasonable to say that Murphy is a better option to spread the floor than Thornton. Thornton is shooting 39% to Murphy's 33%. Murphy would indeed provide more rebounding benefit than Thornton, but he is less sure with the ball and not as good a passer, and he's not as good a defender. So you'd be getting a less efficient 3pt shooter, a less capable defender, a lesser ballhandler/passer, but a better rebounder. I don't think that's the tradeoff we want to make.

While I agree with your conclusions, I think this is reading somewhat more into these shooting percentages than is really warranted. The sample size here is very low--a 90% confidence interval around Tyler's 15/38 this season is 26 to 54 percent. Given that he is a career 35% shooter, the gap may not be that large. The variance around Alex's 3/9 is obviously huge as well.

CDu
01-16-2013, 06:13 PM
While I agree with your conclusions, I think this is reading somewhat more into these shooting percentages than is really warranted. The sample size here is very low--a 90% confidence interval around Tyler's 15/38 this season is 26 to 54 percent. Given that he is a career 35% shooter, the gap may not be that large. The variance around Alex's 3/9 is obviously huge as well.

That is a very fair point about sample size concerns. I guess my point was more that it is quite a stretch to suggest that Murphy stretches the floor more than Thornton.

Bob Green
01-16-2013, 06:16 PM
Duke opens as a 17 points favorite in Vegas with the over/under set at 128.5 so the oddsmakers are looking for a score in the neighborhood of 73-56:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

Duke leads the ACC in Scoring Margin at 17.2 ppg. Looking exclusively at ACC games, Duke still leads the conference at 12.7 ppg:

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/confonly.html

Faustus
01-17-2013, 11:00 AM
Just bumping this back to the first page (oddly).

roywhite
01-17-2013, 11:55 AM
Bad weather heading to the Piedmont. Heavy rain, changing to snow into Thursday evening.

Not a great night for those travelling some distance to the game.

gofurman
01-17-2013, 04:17 PM
so is this game at 7 or 9? I think there was some early confusion on this... I think it is 9 on espn?

Indoor66
01-17-2013, 04:47 PM
so is this game at 7 or 9? I think there was some early confusion on this... I think it is 9 on espn?

According to my TV schedule (Comcast in South Florida) the game is on ESPN at 9:00 P.M. folllowing the Michigan - Minnesota game.

Luther
01-17-2013, 04:48 PM
I agree with you that line-up does not make sense so I'll revise my proposed alternative line-up to either Cook-Curry-Thornton-Hairston-Plumlee or Cook-Curry-Sulaimon-Jefferson-Plumlee. Thanks for straightening me out.

Just don't see why you wouldn't start Sheed. He is without a doubt one of the 4 best players on the team (excluding Kelly). Start the best four which are Cook-Curry-Sheed and Mason and then add either Hairston or Jefferson.

Fish80
01-17-2013, 06:04 PM
I'd like to see a line-up of Quin-Alex-Amile-Mason-Marshall. Not necessarily as the starting line-up, just gettting some time together on the floor. I think we're long and athletic with that line-up. Alex can play the 2.

Kedsy
01-17-2013, 06:10 PM
I'd like to see a line-up of Quin-Alex-Amile-Mason-Marshall. Not necessarily as the starting line-up, just gettting some time together on the floor. I think we're long and athletic with that line-up. Alex can play the 2.

While it might be fun to boast possibly the tallest lineup in the NCAA, I imagine your proposed lineup would have a ton of trouble, both scoring and defending. Height isn't everything in college ball.

CDu
01-17-2013, 06:11 PM
I'd like to see a line-up of Quin-Alex-Amile-Mason-Marshall. Not necessarily as the starting line-up, just gettting some time together on the floor. I think we're long and athletic with that line-up. Alex can play the 2.

I don't think there's much chance of that happening. No shooters, no floor spacing, only one true ballhandler, three guys defending positions for which they're not suited to play from a quickness perspective, and three very inexperienced players.

toooskies
01-17-2013, 06:27 PM
Just don't see why you wouldn't start Sheed. He is without a doubt one of the 4 best players on the team (excluding Kelly). Start the best four which are Cook-Curry-Sheed and Mason and then add either Hairston or Jefferson.

Because he has only made 9 of his last 40 shots, including 2/12 from 3-point range, he just put up a 0/0/0/0 Rebounds/Assists/Blocks/Steals in our loss to NC State, and his defense is getting worse (per Coach K). He's in a funk. While he's probably one of the best four overall, he's been playing under his potential for a month, and it's time to try something to snap him out of that funk. Not because he doesn't deserve to be playing, but because his game is regressing and break from the pressure of starting might be what he needs to regain his mojo.

In other words: It's not about picking someone because they're better than him (although that may be true); it would be about helping Sheed get out of his slump.

Bob Green
01-17-2013, 06:29 PM
Just don't see why you wouldn't start Sheed.

I agree. You probably missed my earlier post.


I believe Sulaimon's tough perimeter defense might be enough to keep him in the starting line-up. He remains a difference maker on defense even though he is struggling scoring the ball.

Luther
01-17-2013, 07:18 PM
Because he has only made 9 of his last 40 shots, including 2/12 from 3-point range, he just put up a 0/0/0/0 Rebounds/Assists/Blocks/Steals in our loss to NC State, and his defense is getting worse (per Coach K). He's in a funk. While he's probably one of the best four overall, he's been playing under his potential for a month, and it's time to try something to snap him out of that funk. Not because he doesn't deserve to be playing, but because his game is regressing and break from the pressure of starting might be what he needs to regain his mojo.

In other words: It's not about picking someone because they're better than him (although that may be true); it would be about helping Sheed get out of his slump.

Your comments make sense. Personally I like the best players on the court slump or no slump.

tele
01-17-2013, 07:54 PM
Because he has only made 9 of his last 40 shots, including 2/12 from 3-point range, he just put up a 0/0/0/0 Rebounds/Assists/Blocks/Steals in our loss to NC State, and his defense is getting worse (per Coach K). He's in a funk. While he's probably one of the best four overall, he's been playing under his potential for a month, and it's time to try something to snap him out of that funk. Not because he doesn't deserve to be playing, but because his game is regressing and break from the pressure of starting might be what he needs to regain his mojo.

In other words: It's not about picking someone because they're better than him (although that may be true); it would be about helping Sheed get out of his slump.

If his defense falls off too, then he may not start. Rasheed is experiencing the same thing as Andre did last year, he's a shooting guard forced to play against ACC small forwards and to provide help defense in the paint against 4's and 5's. This will affect your offense and floor game after awhile. Not many guards have the size and strength to do it all let alone be expected to play against taller and stronger players and drop into the lane on defensive rotations. ACC teams know how to take advantage of this against Duke and Rasheed has been the guy bearing the brunt of it. I don't see how you can expect a freshman to hold up for long when neither of Andre, Austin or Seth could do it for long last season. And this season with Seth's leg hurting him, he is limited defensively against other guards.

So at some point you would expect to see an actual forward playing the 3 and guarding other teams small forwards for more of each game. That does expose some defensive shortcomings at guard but it becomes difficult for a team to play rotations with two defensive specialists at one time and still score (that two includes Rasheed's D against 3's). It also results in lineups with two or even three freshman on the floor which may cause some other offensive efficiency/turnover difficulties at times, even with Cook's somewhat improved play. But with Kelly out and Curry limited, it's the choice you're left with.

moonpie23
01-17-2013, 08:58 PM
i'm ready to see this train get back on the track and start building momentum again.....


LET'S GO DUKE!!

riverside6
01-17-2013, 09:10 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/GT here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=14566

_Gary
01-17-2013, 09:13 PM
This is going to be a tough starting lineup to get a lot of points from. I hope 'Sheed gets off the snide tonight.

UrinalCake
01-17-2013, 09:14 PM
Offense looking a little flat. Need to finish better inside. Nice O-boards by Amile.

_Gary
01-17-2013, 09:15 PM
Yes on the board by Amile. Hopefully he picks up where he left off in Raleigh.

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 09:16 PM
Here's a novel idea - why not move the 1st game that is clearly over to ESPNEWS and let the die-hard fans of those schools watch the painful last seconds while allowing EVERYONE ELSE IN THE FREE WORLD to begin watching the beginning of the 2nd game?!!!!

"LOUD NOISES!"

_Gary
01-17-2013, 09:18 PM
Nice double by Amile caused a turnover. And now Murphy scores! Good stuff!!!

moonpie23
01-17-2013, 09:25 PM
ugly start.......missing to many chippies....

grossbus
01-17-2013, 09:25 PM
These slow starts are giving me agita.

arnie
01-17-2013, 09:27 PM
Nice double by Amile caused a turnover. And now Murphy scores! Good stuff!!!

Need to keep playing murph and amile. Hairston simply won't board

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 09:29 PM
nice to see TT cut to the basket

_Gary
01-17-2013, 09:35 PM
Need to keep playing murph and amile. Hairston simply won't board

Amile just seems to be one of those guys with a knack for getting boards, especially offensive ones. I really, really like his game and hate that he just picked up a second foul. Bummer as he has played well thus far.

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 09:36 PM
Not to get too Biblical, but I think Coach K is sowing some fine seeds for later in the year with Amile, Murph, 'Sheed, and MP3 growing and contributing while Kelly is out.

A March harvest? I hope so!

_Gary
01-17-2013, 09:38 PM
not to get too biblical, but i think coach k is sowing some fine seeds for later in the year with amile, murph, 'sheed, and mp3 growing and contributing while kelly is out.

A march harvest? I hope so!

a-m-e-n! :d

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 09:39 PM
Mason needs to break out of this "funk" he seems in the last few games.

Les Grossman
01-17-2013, 09:40 PM
mason 2 of 10

UrinalCake
01-17-2013, 09:41 PM
Agree, we're getting the bench guys good minutes that hopefully will pay dividends down the road. Mason needs to go stronger to the basket. He's falling away with these hook shots and not being strong with the ball.

ScreechTDX1847
01-17-2013, 09:42 PM
I think my post got deleted by a mod for quoting and agreeing with someone? Anyway...

It's going to take a while to figure out our chemistry without Ryan. A very underwhelming #3 team against a bad Tech team.

Les Grossman
01-17-2013, 09:43 PM
hit a rough patch

dukelifer
01-17-2013, 09:43 PM
mason 2 of 10

Mason is not at his best trying to take over. Duke is really playing poorly. This is going to be a long night

_Gary
01-17-2013, 09:45 PM
I don't disagree with what Duke is trying to do by going through Mason. He's gotten good lucks with the hooks, they just haven't been going down. And if he's going to have an "off" night offensively, we are going to be hurting for baskets without Ryan and with Seth playing hurt (even more so than normal for this season).

Utley
01-17-2013, 09:45 PM
Wow - what are we shooting? I hope we can right this ship. This could be worse.

_Gary
01-17-2013, 09:47 PM
Right now we just have to find someone with a hot hand. It seems like we can't throw it in the ocean. I'm gonna predict Quinn will be a bit more assertive here in the last few minutes of the half.

Les Grossman
01-17-2013, 09:48 PM
Wow - what are we shooting? I hope we can right this ship. This could be worse.
23% or so

moonpie23
01-17-2013, 09:48 PM
horrible start......mason seems to have slipped WAY back into his old ways.....they are starting to stand around and watch.......no confidence...

ugh....

slower
01-17-2013, 09:49 PM
The cable gods have intervened here in Durham, so I'm unable to watch the end of the half. I'm assuming the plan is to overwhelm them, after lulling them into a false sense of security.

dukelifer
01-17-2013, 09:49 PM
23% or so

Could be a record for a Duke team in a half

arnie
01-17-2013, 09:49 PM
I don't disagree with what Duke is trying to do by going through Mason. He's gotten good lucks with the hooks, they just haven't been going down. And if he's going to have an "off" night offensively, we are going to be hurting for baskets without Ryan and with Seth playing hurt (even more so than normal for this season).

Disagree. Most of plumlee's shots have been wild throws at the basket. Need to change our approach

mattman91
01-17-2013, 09:50 PM
23% or so

If only we had dexter strickland

WeepingThomasHill
01-17-2013, 09:50 PM
7 minute scoring drought? Mason throwing up bricks? Clogged toilet offense? I am very nervous. Where are we going to get points?

ChicagoCrazy84
01-17-2013, 09:50 PM
Right now we just have to find someone with a hot hand. It seems like we can't throw it in the ocean. I'm gonna predict Quinn will be a bit more assertive here in the last few minutes of the half.


I don't care if its Quinn or Todd Zafirovski, this is getting a little ridiculous.

Me thinks in the 2nd half we dont go through Mason. It was a nice thought but it is painful watching him go up the same way every time. Falling away and putting up that hook.

DukieInBrasil
01-17-2013, 09:50 PM
It's hard to state how big an impact Kelly's absence has on this team. Bad decisions being made by everyone, and ice cold shooting from Plumlee.
Except for all the turnovers by Holsey and Duke might be down be more than 10 points right now.
Missing the front end of 1-n-1s twice now, both by Fr. Mason getting stuffed over and over. Getting rejected in the lane over and over (Curry, Sulaimon etc.). It just doesn't seem like the team has a feel for what it's good at right now. This Duke team definitely has what it takes to beat this Tech team handily, but they've got to relax and trust that they can play better than they are.
About the only thing Duke is doing well at is forcing GT into turnovers, but Duke is turning it over a lot too. Weird things keep happening, like Cook just tossing the ball out of bounds, followed by just wildly throwing the ball around. Weird.

_Gary
01-17-2013, 09:52 PM
Disagree. Most of plumlee's shots have been wild throws at the basket. Need to change our approach

The sweeping hooks have been wild throws at the basket? I don't agree. Some of his others have been poor, but I think on a technical level most of the hooks were solid looks. Having said that, since he's so "off" I do think the approach needs to be adjusted.

DukieInBrasil
01-17-2013, 09:53 PM
I don't care if its Quinn or Todd Zafirovski, this is getting a little ridiculous.

Me thinks in the 2nd half we dont go through Mason. It was a nice thought but it is painful watching him go up the same way every time. Falling away and putting up that hook.

Totally agree. Duke has got to look to go through someone else.

ChicagoCrazy84
01-17-2013, 09:54 PM
Is it just me or does Mason lack a certain feel for the game? Maybe its just today and he's pressing, but I'm watching him and he just looks so uncertain and lacking confidence. I hope he comes out of this.

WeepingThomasHill
01-17-2013, 09:54 PM
Time for Plumlee to take a seat. This is just horrible to watch.

PSurprise
01-17-2013, 09:54 PM
If Tech were a half decent team, they'd be up by at least a dozen. We're playing down to their level. I think we need to just settle down, continue to get good ball movement and find the open man. Our shots will fall

Hurley2Hill
01-17-2013, 09:55 PM
The cable gods have intervened here in Durham, so I'm unable to watch the end of the half. I'm assuming the plan is to overwhelm them, after lulling them into a false sense of security.

Outage here in Alamance county too. Thing is, when it blacked out, I was sort of OK with it.

Les Grossman
01-17-2013, 09:55 PM
to the goal by Amile

dukelifer
01-17-2013, 09:56 PM
7 minute scoring drought? Mason throwing up bricks? Clogged toilet offense? I am very nervous. Where are we going to get points?

Tremendous loss of confidence. Kids are kids. Nice effort at the end. Hopefully a better second half.

dcdevil2009
01-17-2013, 09:56 PM
At least we ended the half on a high note with a nicely executed 2 for 1.

WakeDevil
01-17-2013, 09:56 PM
The cable gods have intervened here in Durham, so I'm unable to watch the end of the half. I'm assuming the plan is to overwhelm them, after lulling them into a false sense of security.

It appears their territory also runs into Guilford County. Can they be appeased by an animal sacrifice?

DukieInBrasil
01-17-2013, 09:57 PM
The sweeping hooks have been wild throws at the basket? I don't agree. Some of his others have been poor, but I think on a technical level most of the hooks were solid looks. Having said that, since he's so "off" I do think the approach needs to be adjusted.

While the hook shot may be a good shot in most situations, Mason's hook shots in this game have been with a slight fade away or sideways motion aspect to them, which totally eliminates the advantage Mason hopes to gain by going to the hook. He has thrown up some really ugly shots hoping to draw a whistle that just hasn't come. At some point Mason has to adjust how he plays to how they are officiating the game. He's being outplayed by a Fr., but truthfully, he's not getting much help.

rsvman
01-17-2013, 09:57 PM
Pretty pathetic so far.

That is all.

BigZ
01-17-2013, 09:58 PM
That is the worst half I can recall.duke playing.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 09:58 PM
It appears their territory also runs into Guilford County. Can they be appeased by an animal sacrifice?

You can watch on iPad or iPhone for free if you have TWC.

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 09:58 PM
Perhaps in the 2nd half, we can pull Mason out to the high post and open up driving lanes and kick-outs for open shooters. Mason just doesn't have it offensively tonight apparently.

Amile is the player of the 1st half for me, with Curry and Sheed a close 2nd and 3rd.

I think we'll find a way to win, but there will be PLENTY to work on this week and next.

slower
01-17-2013, 09:59 PM
We're playing down to their level

We are reverse Milton Berle-ing them! Seems like as good a plan as any.

And to all of you who are quick to criticize the so-called "Negative Nellies" around here, remember that we don't make the news, we just report it.

Chris Randolph
01-17-2013, 09:59 PM
It is hard for me to be upset with the first half performance. Coming off their first loss and adjusting to life without Kelly is difficult to overcome. I watched the first half thinking "what might have been this season had Kelly never gotten hurt." I know I shouldn't think that because there is a lot of season left but it is hard not to.

I am confident Duke will win this game and hit the practice court and get better before taking on Miami

noworries
01-17-2013, 09:59 PM
The sweeping hooks have been wild throws at the basket? I don't agree. Some of his others have been poor, but I think on a technical level most of the hooks were solid looks. Having said that, since he's so "off" I do think the approach needs to be adjusted.

IMO I thought the majority of those shots were the most piss poor shots I've seen from him in my life...which dates back to high school...that's by far the worst half of duke basketball since...since...arizona in the ncaa tourney 2011?

arnie
01-17-2013, 09:59 PM
to the goal by Amile

Amile is the bright spot - has a feel for the game and great athlete. Hopefully he will develop a mid-level shot - but even without it, he's fun to watch around the basket.

ChicagoCrazy84
01-17-2013, 09:59 PM
It appears their territory also runs into Guilford County. Can they be appeased by an animal sacrifice?


Don't kill your dog. This game isn't worth the sacrifice...

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:01 PM
IMO I thought the majority of those shots were the most piss poor shots I've seen from him in my life...which dates back to high school...that's by far the worst half of duke basketball since...since...arizona in the ncaa tourney 2011?

And yet we're only down 1. No need to panic - yet.

Maybe we caught whatever State had.

dukefan10
01-17-2013, 10:01 PM
I love Amille... That is all! He's really showing us tons of heart and skill. GO DUKE!

licc85
01-17-2013, 10:01 PM
Well, going back to last year, we are now 1-3 in games without Ryan Kelly. I think his importance has been vastly underrated. Mason's game is hurt the most by his absence and our floor spacing is just completely off. Ryan was the glue guy that held our offense together, and without him, it's all 3's and iso 1 on 1 attempts. It seems like our ball movement is taking a hit as well.

Key 1st Half Stats:
5 assists to 10 turnovers.
Mason: 2-12 FG, 6 points, 4 turnovers
27% FG shooting
Being outrebounded by tech 25-20

We are fortunate to only be down by 1.

Only positives here are that our bench guys, particularly Amile are getting some valuable experience. Other than that, this was a forgettable 20 minutes of basketball. Painful to watch . . .

Furniture
01-17-2013, 10:02 PM
The sweeping hooks have been wild throws at the basket? I don't agree. Some of his others have been poor, but I think on a technical level most of the hooks were solid looks. Having said that, since he's so "off" I do think the approach needs to be adjusted.

Sorry Gary. I agree with Arnie.

1999ballboy
01-17-2013, 10:02 PM
Bizarre... all cable channels are working here in Wilmington, except for ESPN channels. It makes sense that the weather in Durham would cause the game to black out, but not ESPN2, ESPNU, et al. when every other cable channel still works.

DU82
01-17-2013, 10:02 PM
It appears their territory also runs into Guilford County. Can they be appeased by an animal sacrifice?

I suggest a ram.

roywhite
01-17-2013, 10:02 PM
Mason is missing on the hook, but not using good footwork to get open for other shots. He's being overplayed for the hook; needs to drop step or pivot the other way, and he'll get a layup. Just does not look fluid at all. Ugh.

I like what Amile brings. He appears to be a whistle magnet, though (not necessarily the same as a foul magnet).

noworries
01-17-2013, 10:03 PM
And yet we're only down 1. No need to panic - yet.

Maybe we caught whatever State had.

Truth. I know it's bad when the cell phone goes flying...in the first half...

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:03 PM
Mason has had a terrible half shooting the ball, no doubt about that. And about half the shots were weak. But some of the hooks were solid and he just didn't get the bounce, imho. I'm just not going to roast the guy after one half. Having said that, I do think confidence is a huge issue with him and right now he's not taking the ball strong to the hoop.

WeepingThomasHill
01-17-2013, 10:03 PM
Mason's shots look terrible tonight. Off night, or are we headed for a Plumlee Cliff??

jv001
01-17-2013, 10:04 PM
It appears their territory also runs into Guilford County. Can they be appeased by an animal sacrifice?

Looks like it carried over to western Forsyth County as well. Guess I'll listen to Mr. Bob Harris. And by the way, that starting lineup would probably finish no higher than 3rd place in the ACC maybe as low as 6th. GoDuke!

Les Grossman
01-17-2013, 10:04 PM
Guess that happens when your leaders are banged up

But it works against Mason. He's much stronger when he can run the floor some.

ChicagoCrazy84
01-17-2013, 10:06 PM
Mason is missing on the hook, but not using good footwork to get open for other shots. He's being overplayed for the hook; needs to drop step or pivot the other way, and he'll get a layup. Just does not look fluid at all. Ugh.

I like what Amile brings. He appears to be a whistle magnet, though (not necessarily the same as a foul magnet).


I feel like everytime Mason tries pivoting the other way, he ends up travelling with it or he gets it stripped. I love Mason, he's a physical specimen but he has never been a master of the post moves...

jv001
01-17-2013, 10:06 PM
Mason is missing on the hook, but not using good footwork to get open for other shots. He's being overplayed for the hook; needs to drop step or pivot the other way, and he'll get a layup. Just does not look fluid at all. Ugh.

I like what Amile brings. He appears to be a whistle magnet, though (not necessarily the same as a foul magnet).

You nailed it roywhite, it's not bad shots but just poor foot work by Mason. I remember Mase shooting that hook shot going straight up and it being more of a jump hook and not the old fashion hook shot. GoDuke!

licc85
01-17-2013, 10:07 PM
I think the key to the 2nd half has got to be Quinn. He needs to step up and take control of this offense. He was a no show in the first half. Mason is not Zach Randolph . . . gotta stop trying to post him up and just get him easy looks by getting penetration, finding him off screen and rolls, or through lobs. Quinn can't phone in games like this if we want to be a legit contender. 0 points, 2 assists, and 2 turnovers is not going to cut it. Gotta get more production from the point guard position.

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:07 PM
I like what Amile brings. He appears to be a whistle magnet, though (not necessarily the same as a foul magnet).

Excellent observations about Amile (of course I say that because I feel the exact same way). ;)

In all seriousness, I do think Amile, in both this game and against NC State, has been the recipient of very quick whistles.

Saratoga2
01-17-2013, 10:08 PM
With Josh and Tyler in the game and Mason showing no sign of touch on the ball (he is throwing the ball up rather than shooting it), we started very poorly. The strategy apparently was to go to Mason inside but he has had a really poor start with 2 for 12 and 4 turnovers. Most of his shots are from 3 feet or less. We got down by 7 or 8 with that lineup.

It took coach K a while to try something different. Jefferson, despite his inexperience is a difference maker. Seth is going to get his points and perhaps we are seeing more from Rasheed as his shot is beginning to fall. We are turning GT over repeatedly but should be up by 15 instead of down at the half.

I hope that we will learn from the first half and not focus on Mason as he does poorly shooting in traffic. Keep up the pressure defense and work for more perimeter shots and more involvement from Amile. Alex got some chances, but he made some mistakes. He still might get us some points with his hustle. We also need Quinn to get into the offense, which he has not done. He is getting pretty well covered.

Lets hope we don't lose at home to GT!

WakeDevil
01-17-2013, 10:10 PM
I was thinking of a goat.

The game is back on. That was strange in deed.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:11 PM
Excellent observations about Amile (of course I say that because I feel the exact same way). ;)

In all seriousness, I do think Amile, in both this game and against NC State, has been the recipient of very quick whistles.

It was maddening to see the whistle on the over the back when it affected nothing on the play. Dumb foul, for sure, but relatively benign.

mr. synellinden
01-17-2013, 10:11 PM
Mason has had a terrible half shooting the ball, no doubt about that. And about half the shots were weak. But some of the hooks were solid and he just didn't get the bounce, imho. I'm just not going to roast the guy after one half. Having said that, I do think confidence is a huge issue with him and right now he's not taking the ball strong to the hoop.

Just didn't get the bounce? The only two shots he hit were because he got a friendly bounce off the rim. That was simply an atrocious half of offensive basketball for someone who is in the mix for NPOY. Amile is our best player right now. I've been saying this since before the NCSU game. He just needs to stay out of foul trouble. If he can do that, he should be playing 25+ minutes a game. We are better on both ends of the floor when he's in.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:12 PM
I was thinking of a goat.

The game is back on. That was strange in deed.

Blessing in disguise. I didn't wanna watch that first half anyway. :p

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:12 PM
It was maddening to see the whistle on the over the back when it affected nothing on the play. Dumb foul, for sure, but relatively benign.

Yep. The ref was anticipating the foul and blew it real quick when Amile made almost no contact at all. And as you say, it had no affect on the defender pulling down the board.

licc85
01-17-2013, 10:14 PM
Just didn't get the bounce? The only two shots he hit were because he got a friendly bounce off the rim. That was simply an atrocious half of offensive basketball for someone who is in the mix for NPOY. Amile is our best player right now. I've been saying this since before the NCSU game. He just needs to stay out of foul trouble. If he can do that, he should be playing 25+ minutes a game. We are better on both ends of the floor when he's in.

Yeah, the scary thing . . . you're probably right. And in the 5-6 games before he was hurt, I don't think it was even arguable that Ryan was the team's best player. We just don't have a go to guy on offense right now. Seth is too hobbled to carry us, and Mason is back to being old Mason. I think the worst possible thing that could have happened to Mason was being thrust in to the POY discussions. Ever since teams have started to gameplan for him, he just hasn't been the same guy. Disappointing, but honestly, I think most of us expected him to come back down to earth after that scorching hot start.

El_Diablo
01-17-2013, 10:15 PM
Stop with the hook shots!!!

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:16 PM
Yep. The ref was anticipating the foul and blew it real quick when Amile made almost no contact at all. And as you say, it had no affect on the defender pulling down the board.

Yet Amile gets mugged on a putback.... No call. Grr. Guess he needs to earn the refs' respect... :rolleyes:

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 10:16 PM
Welcome to mr. Jefferson's house!!!

Utley
01-17-2013, 10:16 PM
Love Amile!

ChicagoCrazy84
01-17-2013, 10:17 PM
Oh my God, Amile Jefferson is my new favorite player.

We are going to need to start a nickname thread for him after tonight...

Phoenix22
01-17-2013, 10:17 PM
What is it about this team that it has to wait until the second half?

Duke's 1st half offense = Manti T'eo's girlfriend

WeepingThomasHill
01-17-2013, 10:17 PM
I think he is trying to set a CIS record for missed hook shots. I fear that the last few games have completely exposed Plumlee.

And whither Marshall Plumlee? Purportedly on the 6 best players on the team? Maybe he can make a hook.

slower
01-17-2013, 10:17 PM
Amile's making a strong case for a spot in the starting lineup.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:18 PM
Yeah, the scary thing . . . you're probably right. And in the 5-6 games before he was hurt, I don't think it was even arguable that Ryan was the team's best player. We just don't have a go to guy on offense right now. Seth is too hobbled to carry us, and Mason is back to being old Mason. I think the worst possible thing that could have happened to Mason was being thrust in to the POY discussions. Ever since teams have started to gameplan for him, he just hasn't been the same guy. Disappointing, but honestly, I think most of us expected him to come back down to earth after that scorching hot start.

Ryan wasn't really a go to guy either. He just made the whole machine better. This year's Duke team is more of a team than last year's. More chemistry and cohesion.

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 10:18 PM
Stop with the hook shots!!!

Mason = Captain Hook:p

Utley
01-17-2013, 10:18 PM
Welcome to mr. Jefferson's house!!!

He finally got a piece of the pie!

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:19 PM
Will Mason ever be accused of having great touch? No. But he's improved on that hook in that at least he's now shooting it in the middle of the lane instead of dribbling to the side and shooting it from a bad angle (something he was doing with regularity in time past). I just see him improving in that area and think he's moving in the right direction in terms of that particular shot. He's not Kareem and he never will be, but I still thought several of his first half hooks were better than he's getting credit for. The other shots, where he was going up for layups, were very weak. But I do believe he's improving with the hook as his last year progresses.

licc85
01-17-2013, 10:20 PM
You guys hear that? That's the sound of Amile blowing past Josh Hairston on the depth chart.

El_Diablo
01-17-2013, 10:20 PM
There ya go. Throw it down, big fella! Throw it down!

BlueandWhite
01-17-2013, 10:20 PM
Well, going back to last year, we are now 1-3 in games without Ryan Kelly. I think his importance has been vastly underrated. Mason's game is hurt the most by his absence and our floor spacing is just completely off. Ryan was the glue guy that held our offense together, and without him, it's all 3's and iso 1 on 1 attempts. It seems like our ball movement is taking a hit as well.

Key 1st Half Stats:
5 assists to 10 turnovers.
Mason: 2-12 FG, 6 points, 4 turnovers
27% FG shooting
Being outrebounded by tech 25-20

We are fortunate to only be down by 1.

Only positives here are that our bench guys, particularly Amile are getting some valuable experience. Other than that, this was a forgettable 20 minutes of basketball. Painful to watch . . .

That was easily the worst half of Duke hoops I can recall watching in...not sure when.

Negatives
Kelly clearly is missed, the half-court offense was disorganized and sloppy on most possessions & agree with the comment about poor spacing
Repeated weak, clumsy moves to the hoop by Mason toward the end of the half...did he get intimidated by being blocked by Carter? Shake it off & take it up strong, big guy!
Honestly, a poor defensive effort & weak rebounding.
Why didn't Curry shoot the ball more? He's the best shooter on the team, he needs more touches...period!

Positives
Amile Jefferson!
Sulaimon draining that pair of threes from the corner.
Not sure what else...

I don't think GT will go away easily, but we should pull away in this one....lots of work over the next week, Kelly's absence will continue to be a big factor.

Les Grossman
01-17-2013, 10:20 PM
fewer hooks!

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:20 PM
Mason has really come out this half playing well! And Amile has some really natural rebounding instincts.

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:20 PM
Ryan wasn't really a go to guy either. He just made the whole machine better. This year's Duke team is more of a team than last year's. More chemistry and cohesion.

Agreed.

Oh, there's that drop step slam by Mason. Good job young man!

Furniture
01-17-2013, 10:21 PM
Will Mason ever be accused of having great touch? No. But he's improved on that hook in that at least he's now shooting it in the middle of the lane instead of dribbling to the side and shooting it from a bad angle (something he was doing with regularity in time past). I just see him improving in that area and think he's moving in the right direction in terms of that particular shot. He's not Kareem and he never will be, but I still thought several of his first half hooks were better than he's getting credit for. The other shots, where he was going up for layups, were very weak. But I do believe he's improving with the hook as his last year progresses.

Mason is back! What did coach K say?

licc85
01-17-2013, 10:21 PM
What is it about this team that it has to wait until the second half?

Duke's 1st half offense = Manti T'eo's girlfriend

Mason's hook shot game should be renamed Lennay Kekua. It doesn't exist.

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:22 PM
I'll be very surprised if Jefferson isn't in the starting lineup next game. Love his game.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:22 PM
Where are all the hook shot detractors every other game where they've been falling? Some games, you just miss shots.

Furniture
01-17-2013, 10:23 PM
I am a young Duke fan. 5 years or so and I have never seen a hug like that! Very nice!

CDu
01-17-2013, 10:24 PM
He finally got a piece of the pie!

Might just be movin on up to the starting lineup.

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:25 PM
Where are all the hook shot detractors every other game where they've been falling? Some games, you just miss shots.

:cool:

In all seriousness, I'm not saying Mason is Hakeem reborn. He's clearly got a ways to go on footwork and touch when it comes to hooks (and most every other shot he takes). But I do see improvement.

licc85
01-17-2013, 10:25 PM
Where are all the hook shot detractors every other game where they've been falling? Some games, you just miss shots.

Come on admit it, even when he hits that shot, you're surprised when it goes in. It's not his strength and it never will be. The Plumlee Bros. Dunking Company will never be rebranded the Plumlee Bros. Sky Hook Emporium.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:27 PM
:cool:

In all seriousness, I'm not saying Mason is Hakeem reborn. He's clearly got a ways to go on footwork and touch when it comes to hooks (and most every other shot he takes). But I do see improvement.

Me either. But I've seen him make enough hook shots to not cringe when he takes one. Tough fall for carter...

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:27 PM
Yikes. Glad to see the young man is okay after that nasty fall.

PSurprise
01-17-2013, 10:27 PM
I hate to say it, but Mason just got posterized.

Les Grossman
01-17-2013, 10:27 PM
GT guy hung on the rim forever, and needlessly

Utley
01-17-2013, 10:27 PM
Might just be movin on up to the starting lineup.

Very good!

Now he's up in the big leagues!

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:28 PM
Come on admit it, even when he hits that shot, you're surprised when it goes in. It's not his strength and it never will be. The Plumlee Bros. Dunking Company will never be rebranded the Plumlee Bros. Sky Hook Emporium.

Oh, it is not pretty looking. But he hits it enough for me to be ok with him taking it.

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:28 PM
Me either. But I've seen him make enough hook shots to not cringe when he takes one. Tough fall for carter...

Right. And since I got roasted for sticking up for him in the first half I've paid extra close attention and he's had two hooks that have just bounced out here in the second (another has gone in).

licc85
01-17-2013, 10:29 PM
I hear the NBA Jam announcer yelling "HE'S EN FUEGO!"

Seth doin work.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:31 PM
Right. And since I got roasted for sticking up for him in the first half I've paid extra close attention and he's had two hooks that have just bounced out here in the second (another has gone in).

And he hits another. I just wish he would start incorporating other moves with it.

BlueandWhite
01-17-2013, 10:31 PM
Come on admit it, even when he hits that shot, you're surprised when it goes in. It's not his strength and it never will be. The Plumlee Bros. Dunking Company will never be rebranded the Plumlee Bros. Sky Hook Emporium.

Nice make on that hook shot, Mason - keep 'em coming!

Oh, and keep crashing the boards & feel free to dunk it and lay it up, too.

WeepingThomasHill
01-17-2013, 10:32 PM
He's back. And finally hit one his patented line drive hooks.

Great halftime adjustments by K and Co. everything looks better this half!

slower
01-17-2013, 10:33 PM
I'm assuming the plan is to overwhelm them, after lulling them into a false sense of security.

Obviously, I was just kidding. But whatever works...

dukelifer
01-17-2013, 10:33 PM
Mason has really come out this half playing well! And Amile has some really natural rebounding instincts.

And inside scoring instincts. A little more strength and he will be a force.

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 10:34 PM
And he hits another. I just wish he would start incorporating other moves with it.

Drop-step anyone?

Les Grossman
01-17-2013, 10:34 PM
now shooting 40%

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:35 PM
Drop-step anyone?

Sure. He's done that too in the 2nd half, but I'd like to see much more of it.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:35 PM
Drop-step anyone?

You see it occasionally, but if he could make it a habit...

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:38 PM
One thing I like better about Jefferson than Hairston is that he doesn't instantly shoot jumpers when he is open. He understands he is wide open for a reason.

El_Diablo
01-17-2013, 10:39 PM
Where are all the hook shot detractors every other game where they've been falling? Some games, you just miss shots.

I never like the hook from Mason. He floats on them rather than goes straight up. Unless he's going up against Nerlens Noel and he needs to shield his release with his body, there are much better options (drop step, spin move, reverse pivot, pump fake, up-and-under....maybe even a pass to the perimeter). Okay, fine, maybe it's fine to mix in a hook every once in a while, but he's taken about 10 this game. Many against a freshman whom he should be attacking and drawing fouls against.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:40 PM
Mason is 6-20. Ew.

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 10:40 PM
Sure. He's done that too in the 2nd half, but I'd like to see much more of it.


You see it occasionally, but if he could make it a habit...

Oh I agree completely. What I meant was the drop-step is the move he needs to use more often. It will get him closer to the basket and either draw a foul or get a better shot. It's a much more aggressive move than the "captain hook" shot and that's why I think Coach K got so excited when he saw Plumlee use it.

gofurman
01-17-2013, 10:40 PM
Is Curry more hurt that was let on? I missed the first half and saw there was some post that Curry is 'extra hurt' - ANything more than the known leg issue (and the mild ankle which will heal) ?

Did he look gimpy?

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:41 PM
I never like the hook from Mason. He floats on them rather than goes straight up. Unless he's going up against Nerlens Noel and he needs to shield his release with his body, there are much better options (drop step, spin move, reverse pivot, pump fake, up-and-under....maybe even a pass to the perimeter). Okay, fine, maybe it's fine to mix in a hook every once in a while, but he's taken about 10 this game. Against a freshman whom he should be attacking and drawing fouls against.

I don't disagree with the logic. I just don't hate the hook. I hate the Hairston jumper.

dukelifer
01-17-2013, 10:44 PM
I don't disagree with the logic. I just don't hate the hook. I hate the Hairston jumper.

I love the Curry jumper

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:45 PM
You know who should get 20 shots in a game? Seth Curry.

slower
01-17-2013, 10:45 PM
I love the Curry jumper

I love the Jefferson.

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 10:46 PM
Is Curry more hurt that was let on? I missed the first half and saw there was some post that Curry is 'extra hurt' - ANything more than the known leg issue (and the mild ankle which will heal) ?

Did he look gimpy?

Well, at the moment he's doing his best JJ impersonation so he's ok right now but he did look "slower" in the 1st half.

BlueandWhite
01-17-2013, 10:47 PM
You know who should get 20 shots in a game? Seth Curry.

Thank you. He HAS to get more looks, every game, regardless of opponent...no ifs, ands or buts. He can and should be a 20+ppg scorer.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:47 PM
Well, at the moment he's doing his best JJ impersonation so he's ok right now but he did look "slower" in the 1st half.

That could have been said for the whole team.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 10:50 PM
GREAT outlet pass by Mason.

El_Diablo
01-17-2013, 10:50 PM
I don't disagree with the logic. I just don't hate the hook. I hate the Hairston jumper.

Don't get me started on that one! :cool:

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 10:51 PM
Awesome look up the court by Mason, feeding Sheed for the 3 point play. Prefer that WAAAAAAY more over "Stall-Ball"(sorry coach K:rolleyes:).

licc85
01-17-2013, 10:51 PM
Great to see Rasheed get back on track. We definitely need him to up his scoring while Ryan is out.

Furniture
01-17-2013, 10:51 PM
Right. And since I got roasted for sticking up for him in the first half I've paid extra close attention and he's had two hooks that have just bounced out here in the second (another has gone in).

Come on Gary. Not roasted. Just good discussion!!

BlueandWhite
01-17-2013, 10:52 PM
You know who should get 20 shots in a game? Seth Curry.

...Seth Curry should get at least 20 shots per game.

licc85
01-17-2013, 10:55 PM
...Seth Curry should get at least 20 shots per game.

That would nice, but it wouldn't really come in the flow of the offense. Seth can't crate his own shot and isn't as good at moving without the ball as a guy like JJ. I agree we need to run more stuff for him though, especially with Ryan out. Seth is the only shooter who we can count on right now.

_Gary
01-17-2013, 10:55 PM
Come on Gary. Not roasted. Just good discussion!!

No problems. I love good discussion (but hate getting slammed negative comments afterward). :p

mr. synellinden
01-17-2013, 10:58 PM
Mason has really come out this half playing well! And Amile has some really natural rebounding instincts.

When Amile puts on some weight and gets stronger, he's going to have the potential to be a Rodman like rebounder. He's quick off the ground, has long arms, has good instincts about where the ball is going and, most importantly, he wants it.

dcdevil2009
01-17-2013, 10:59 PM
...Seth Curry should get at least 20 shots per game.

If he could get 20 open looks a game, that would be awesome. There are very few people on this year's team who can't bury open looks, so there's no need to force up contested shots, even when it's someone as $$ as Curry.

licc85
01-17-2013, 11:01 PM
I was really looking for Quinn to take over in the second half, but I guess it wasn't necessary due to Seth and Rasheed getting hot from outside. We can't continue to rely on outside shooting to save us in tougher games, though. In order for us to take care of business, we need better rebounding and stronger point guard play. The rebounding seems to be something that isn't going to get better any time soon, but I'm looking for Quinn to improve his consistency going forward. Shoot less threes and try to penetrate a bit more often. Nothing he's not capable of.

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 11:02 PM
Thornton gets another T. Quite the instigator, it seems... Looks like he'll be the next "hated" duke player.

toughbuff1
01-17-2013, 11:03 PM
Thornton gets another T. Quite the instigator, it seems... Looks like he'll be the next "hated" duke player.

Was that t on Thornton or Daniel Ewing?

FerryFor50
01-17-2013, 11:04 PM
Was that t on Thornton or Daniel Ewing?

Ewing also got one. It was a "sympathy T"...

BlueDevilBrowns
01-17-2013, 11:07 PM
I was really looking for Quinn to take over in the second half, but I guess it wasn't necessary due to Seth and Rasheed getting hot from outside. We can't continue to rely on outside shooting to save us in tougher games, though. In order for us to take care of business, we need better rebounding and stronger point guard play. The rebounding seems to be something that isn't going to get better any time soon, but I'm looking for Quinn to improve his consistency going forward. Shoot less threes and try to penetrate a bit more often. Nothing he's not capable of.


Quinn played well, I thought. I agree that he's much more effective as an attacker of the basket than a spot-up 3 point shooter. He and Sulaimon need to attack while Curry and Kelly(when he gets back) spot up for open 3's.

noworries
01-17-2013, 11:12 PM
Quinn played well, I thought. I agree that he's much more effective as an attacker of the basket than a spot-up 3 point shooter. He and Sulaimon need to attack while Curry and Kelly(when he gets back) spot up for open 3's.

Very good second half, first was awful but as good a start to the 2nd half as possible...coach k hugging mason was awesome, also how cool seth and k looked when seth came off...almost as if he said "you know you're a baller" without saying a word:cool: