Jay Williams' Comments Last Night

[oldnavy]

Did anyone catch Jay Williams' comments at the half of the Louisville/UCON game regarding Seth Curry?

Basically, Seth had made a comment about how it was hard to come out and jump on teams from the start and get 15 point leads. He mentioned that you just had to keep at it and wear down teams.... (I wish I could find the actual quote but I cannot).

Anyway Jay took exception to this and said that it was the wrong attitude from a leader.

I think that Seth was being honest, and that what he said was realistic.

Sure, he could come out and say things like, "We are Duke and we should beat everyone by 30 from the opening tip to the final buzzer" or the like, but that would be cocky and arrogant.

Sometimes the announcers seem to really have to reach and find things to make into "news".

I am interested in other opinions on this if anyone saw it. I may just be hyper sensitive to commentators, especially ones that want to pic nits.

[allenmurray]

Did anyone catch Jay Williams' comments at the half of the Louisville/UCON game regarding Seth Curry?

Basically, Seth had made a comment about how it was hard to come out and jump on teams from the start and get 15 point leads. He mentioned that you just had to keep at it and wear down teams.... (I wish I could find the actual quote but I cannot).

Anyway Jay took exception to this and said that it was the wrong attitude from a leader.

I think that Seth was being honest, and that what he said was realistic.

Sure, he could come out and say things like, "We are Duke and we should beat everyone by 30 from the opening tip to the final buzzer" or the like, but that would be cocky and arrogant.

Sometimes the announcers seem to really have to reach and find things to make into "news".

I am interested in other opinions on this if anyone saw it. I may just be hyper sensitive to commentators, especially ones that want to pic nits.

Jay Williams was a great basketball player. From what litle knowlege I have he is a great person (he was incredibly happy to pose for a picture which is framed and on my desk at home, and sign a ball, for my son). But a great announcer? No.

[moonpie23]

two different perspectives from two completely different players......i respect both......

[Billy Dat]

Jay Williams was a great basketball player. From what litle knowlege I have he is a great person (he was incredibly happy to pose for a picture which is framed and on my desk at home, and sign a ball, for my son). But a great announcer? No.

CO-SIGN! Plus, I think his career was fueled by, aside from blinding talent, complete and unwavering confidence. He likely can't identify with a statement like the one Seth made. In terms of Dukies in the Color Commentary chair, he's got a ways to go to approach Bilas, Spanarkle and the G-Man. I can't speak for Abdelnaby's arabic-spoken NBA games, I should ask Carrie Matheson about that.

[BlueBloodedDevil]

Saw it and rewound it twice to take it all in... Not only did he question Seth's mental toughness, he said he felt it was a statement of the whole team's resiliency. And tied it to the slow starts we've had the 1st two ACC conf games...
I was not happy about it. It felt like a page out of Bilas's playbook. With Seth having to fight through the pain (with his leg injury) to be on the court, I felt this was a bit odd for Jay to say.

[oldnavy]

Jay Williams was a great basketball player. From what litle knowlege I have he is a great person (he was incredibly happy to pose for a picture which is framed and on my desk at home, and sign a ball, for my son). But a great announcer? No.

Hey, I think he is a super nice person. He was very kind to my sons at the Basketball Banquet his last year. We have some nice signed stuff from him.
Plus he is one of my all time favs to have played at Duke.

I just think he is off base on this. Seth is being real. Duke is not going to come out and run up 15 point leads every game. I have no expectation of that as a fan. I think Seth is showing maturity in realizing that games are not won in the first 10 minutes, and that being consistent and playing hard for 40 minutes will win most games.

I just think that Jay Williams needs to cool the "I am not a Duke homer" twist he brings to the booth. He can be objective without going out of his way to pull a comment like this from Seth and make an issue out of it IMO. I guess I think he tries too hard sometimes to distance himself when it is not really necessary.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Considering the wide range of opinions expressed on this board about a variety of topics, it's no surprise that players and former players would differ just as much in their opinions and attitudes.:cool:

[Channing]

Didn't see the comment and don't really have an opinion. I will say, though, that J-Wil has come light years from when he started with ESPN (he was border-line un-listenable). I have no doubt he will continue to hone his craft and, personally, I enjoy his game analysis.

[rsvman]

I didn't hear the comments, and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn express last night, but from what Old Navy said, I don't think Jay meant that Seth should've been cocky, or should've said we should beat every team by 25 or 30 points. Rather, it sounds like he was saying that going into a game the players should be TRYING to jump out to an early lead; they should be trying to crush the othe team's hopes right out of the gate; they should be trying to take every conceivable advantage right off the bat.

That would be the most benign interpretation of what Jay said, as reported by Old Navy. I have found, over the years, that sometimes it is best (except in obvious cases of direct insults) to take something someone has said and then ask myself, "What's the most benign interpretation of that statement?" Often this thought process will lead to a better understanding, and also a lot less hand-wringing.

[Lord Ash]

Hm, I don't really mind what Jason is saying... usually the best athletes are also hugely competitive and have a great hunger to win, to defeat their opponent as thoroughly as possible... while I don't necessarily disagree with Seth, I think that aggressive attitude IS very important when it comes to winning at the top level.

[BD80]

I agreed with Jayson's statement, although perhaps not with his reasoning: it was not very well articulated.

Seth's remarks struck me as excuse-making. "Other teams try really hard against us when the games begin, it takes us a while for our talent to perservere"

This is hogwash. If we can't match the other teams intensity EVERY TIME right out of the blocks, something is very wrong. That is how you lose first round tournament games.

I don't care if Seth is hurting or Ryan is out, we can put 5 players wearing Duke jerseys onto the court, and we should be playing harder than the other 5 right from the start.

Or else we should be playing a different 5.

[Starter]

I'm with the last two commenters, no problem with what Jason is saying. I don't even view it as a contrarian viewpoint, it's what he believes.

(Take this with a grain of salt, since I'm a huge Jason apologist, but I actually think Jason has improved a great deal as a commentator. I know he's working really hard at it.)

[crimsonandblue]

I'm with the last two commenters, no problem with what Jason is saying. I don't even view it as a contrarian viewpoint, it's what he believes.

(Take this with a grain of salt, since I'm a huge Jason apologist, but I actually think Jason has improved a great deal as a commentator. I know he's working really hard at it.)

As someone who has no vested interest (or unvested) in Williams, he has improved a great deal as a commentator. He's obviously becoming more comfortable on camera and on the mic and he's no longer uniformly painful to listen to. He was flat uncomfortable to watch and listen to when he first started. He's still a little stilted at times, but has a ton more polish than he had when he started.

[Edouble]

As someone who has no vested interest (or unvested) in Williams, he has improved a great deal as a commentator. He's obviously becoming more comfortable on camera and on the mic and he's no longer uniformly painful to listen to. He was flat uncomfortable to watch and listen to when he first started. He's still a little stilted at times, but has a ton more polish than he had when he started.

This.

He was painful to watch when he first started. I wanted him pulled off the air because I felt badly for him and for Duke.

He has improved 10 fold, and while he still has a ways to go, he is on his way!

With regards to the Seth comments, I wonder if Jason doesn't like Seth, or if Seth rubbed him the wrong way during some interaction between the two? The comments seem a bit odd. It's one thing to think it, and it's another thing to say it.

[Lord Ash]

If I may say... I DO think there is GREAT validity to the idea that other teams can get "up" for the start of a game against Duke far easier than Duke can for every game. All Duke fans have seen this happen time and again.

However, I think Jason's larger point was the idea that the Duke guys shouldn't "accept" this... that they should be looking to step on the throat of everyone they play from the moment they are on the floor.

[mkirsh]

I didn't hear the comments, and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn express last night, but from what Old Navy said, I don't think Jay meant that Seth should've been cocky, or should've said we should beat every team by 25 or 30 points. Rather, it sounds like he was saying that going into a game the players should be TRYING to jump out to an early lead; they should be trying to crush the othe team's hopes right out of the gate; they should be trying to take every conceivable advantage right off the bat.

That would be the most benign interpretation of what Jay said, as reported by Old Navy. I have found, over the years, that sometimes it is best (except in obvious cases of direct insults) to take something someone has said and then ask myself, "What's the most benign interpretation of that statement?" Often this thought process will lead to a better understanding, and also a lot less hand-wringing.

Excellent point, and also needs to be applied to Seth's comments as well. I haven't seen the source interview, but it's possible that he was responding to a direct question like "why does this team always start off so slowly?". It's also very possible that this is the "media" answer and not what is said behind closed doors of practice or what the team really believes - likely looks better in print than "we want to demoralize those mf-ers from the start of the game and make them wish they played a different sport instead of basketball" or other such Kobe-esque comments.

[JNort]

If I may say... I DO think there is GREAT validity to the idea that other teams can get "up" for the start of a game against Duke far easier than Duke can for every game. All Duke fans have seen this happen time and again.

However, I think Jason's larger point was the idea that the Duke guys shouldn't "accept" this... that they should be looking to step on the throat of everyone they play from the moment they are on the floor.

I agree with the few others that I don't find his comments to far off base. This is what he was trying to say (In bold) or at least what I got from it.

[jamesfrommaiden]

I loved Jason as a player for Duke. I will never forget the comeback at Maryland. We all know he is one of the all time Duke greats. I have never heard or read anything negative about him as a person. I will say that he never passes up a chance to distance himself from his history as player at Duke. This is one of those chances.

[WVDUKEFAN]

I agree with Lord Ash and a few of the other posters. First of all, next to Bobby Hurley, Jay Wil is my favorite Duke point guard of all time. I can't recall a Duke point guard that was quicker off the dribble. He was also a great passer and a great shooter. I don't see the hunger or fire in Curry that Wojo or Jay Wil had. I'm just not a big Curry fan. I think he is right on with what he said.

[MCFinARL]

I didn't hear the comments, and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn express last night, but from what Old Navy said, I don't think Jay meant that Seth should've been cocky, or should've said we should beat every team by 25 or 30 points. Rather, it sounds like he was saying that going into a game the players should be TRYING to jump out to an early lead; they should be trying to crush the othe team's hopes right out of the gate; they should be trying to take every conceivable advantage right off the bat.

That would be the most benign interpretation of what Jay said, as reported by Old Navy. I have found, over the years, that sometimes it is best (except in obvious cases of direct insults) to take something someone has said and then ask myself, "What's the most benign interpretation of that statement?" Often this thought process will lead to a better understanding, and also a lot less hand-wringing.

Geez, what fun is that? ;)


I agreed with Jayson's statement, although perhaps not with his reasoning: it was not very well articulated.

Seth's remarks struck me as excuse-making. "Other teams try really hard against us when the games begin, it takes us a while for our talent to perservere"

This is hogwash. If we can't match the other teams intensity EVERY TIME right out of the blocks, something is very wrong. That is how you lose first round tournament games.

I don't care if Seth is hurting or Ryan is out, we can put 5 players wearing Duke jerseys onto the court, and we should be playing harder than the other 5 right from the start.

Or else we should be playing a different 5.

Don't like to get all nitpicky about spelling/typos, but this is one that makes a difference. Our Jay Williams is definitely NOT "Jayson" Williams, which is, I believe, why he ended up calling himself "Jay" instead of "Jason" in the first place.

[Duvall]

I I don't see the hunger or fire in Curry that Wojo or Jay Wil had. I'm just not a big Curry fan.

If you haven't seen anything from Seth Curry that suggests an intense competitive fire - especially this season - you should probably look harder.

[johnb]

Every team has different personalities. Jay's teams generally started 5 guys who would play in the NBA, and they won a couple of championships. And the program that he entered had the Brand/Maggette/Avery swagger that accompanied domination.

Association isn't causation, however, and those teams weren't great because they were cocky but because they were always among the best coached and most talented of teams.

Nobody outside the program can really know what's going on inside, but three possibly pertinent points are a) we don't have the dominating talent of 1999-2002, b) the current senior leadership is composed of 3 guys who are not RAH RAH but instead show it by performing, playing through pain, and not whining when things don't go their way, and c) the best player on last year's team appeared from the outside to be cocky, and the team seemed not to jell, and they got bounced in the tournament.

[Sir Stealth]

I'm a little wary of comments Jason makes that could be interpreted as opportunities to display "objectivity" regarding Duke, as others have pointed out, but in this case I think he makes a really good point. When you play for Duke, part of preventing an opponent's best shot every time out is doing what you can to explode out of the gate and demoralize them. The longer they hang with you, their confidence builds.

Based on the way his teams played, you can sense that this was a very conscious focus for Jason and those teams, and I can see why Seth's comments would stand out to him as something worth criticizing. I take Jason's comments as very genuine and think that Seth and his teammates could learn from Jason in that regard if that want to end up as a "great" team when it's all said and done. Seth has proven himself to be a tough guy and a "smooth" clutch player who is unfazed by pressure, but sometimes an aggressive killer instinct is important as well, and that starts with the 5th year senior.

[ChillinDuke]

Can't a guy disagree with another guy from the same school without it being considered "distancing" or that the two don't like each other?

I have no idea what Jason's intent was in his comments. But his point was valid in my eyes.

- Chillin

[Newton_14]

Every team has different personalities. Jay's teams generally started 5 guys who would play in the NBA, and they won a couple of championships. And the program that he entered had the Brand/Maggette/Avery swagger that accompanied domination.

Association isn't causation, however, and those teams weren't great because they were cocky but because they were always among the best coached and most talented of teams.

Nobody outside the program can really know what's going on inside, but three possibly pertinent points are a) we don't have the dominating talent of 1999-2002, b) the current senior leadership is composed of 3 guys who are not RAH RAH but instead show it by performing, playing through pain, and not whining when things don't go their way, and c) the best player on last year's team appeared from the outside to be cocky, and the team seemed not to jell, and they got bounced in the tournament.

So I am going to cheat and defend both Jason and Seth. johnb makes part of my point for me above. Jason is relying on his own Duke experience and perhaps forgetting he played on some of the more dominant Duke teams ever. I have said many times that the teams of the Battier era wanted to destroy you right out of the gate. The lead was never big enough. If they got of 10 they wanted to be up 20. Got up 20 and were dying to take it to 30. But not only did they have the offensive firepower to do so, they had the athlete's to press full court, and play Duke's normal deny all passing lanes halfcourt defense. Which is why K pressed fullcourt on the first 5 to 6 defensive possessions of all home games back then. Trying to get teams in a big hole right off the bat. That is burned in Jason's memory. One of my favorite J-Will moments among many was a big game at NC State. As they lined up at the jump circle for the opening tip, Julius Hodge was yapping. Jason walked directly over to him, nudged his way in to establish the position he wanted, and looked Hodge directly in the face and told him to shut the F up. State had no chance in that game.

However, Seth just has not been on teams with that ability. The lone exception was the Kyrie team that lasted all of 8 games. In the era Seth has played in, it has been a group of warriors that methodically beat you down slowly as the game progressed. Last year they fought and clawed just to win.

Seth is a warrior. He has the competitive fire and it is obvious. What he has done this year on a gimpy leg is nothing short of remarkable. That said, maybe the comments cause Seth and Mason to take a step back and assess their team. Nothing wrong with doing that either. It may cause them to turn the defense up a notch early in games and try to step on a throat early. I was hoping to see that early game fullcourt press some this year, but K has chosen not too. Which tells me he does not think this group can do it. I fully expect to see it next year though.

[BD80]

Geez, what fun is that? ;)



Don't like to get all nitpicky about spelling/typos, but this is one that makes a difference. Our Jay Williams is definitely NOT "Jayson" Williams, which is, I believe, why he ended up calling himself "Jay" instead of "Jason" in the first place.

Sorry. I should have typed Jay-son. A lame attempt to subtly express my displeasure with his "name change" - which I understood originated at ESPN

[Starter]

Sorry. I should have typed Jay-son. A lame attempt to subtly express my displeasure with his "name change" - which I understood originated at ESPN

Not to nitpick, but Jay actually changed his name when he left Duke for marketing reasons. Ironically, I think one of the things that went into it was he wanted to distance himself from Jayson Williams and his legal issues, plus the Jason Williams that played for the Kings at the time.

[sagegrouse]

Not to nitpick, but Jay actually changed his name when he left Duke for marketing reasons. Ironically, I think one of the things that went into it was he wanted to distance himself from Jayson Williams and his legal issues, plus the Jason Williams that played for the Kings at the time.

The Jayson Williams manslaughter incident occurred in Feb 2002, while JWill was still at Duke. I believe JWill always used Jay as a pro. See, for example, this Basketball-reference.com citation for the 2003 Bulls roster (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2003.html).

sagegrouse

[1999ballboy]

I agree with Lord Ash and a few of the other posters. First of all, next to Bobby Hurley, Jay Wil is my favorite Duke point guard of all time. I can't recall a Duke point guard that was quicker off the dribble. He was also a great passer and a great shooter. I don't see the hunger or fire in Curry that Wojo or Jay Wil had. I'm just not a big Curry fan. I think he is right on with what he said.

Well, of course J-Will was fantastic. Curry clearly isn't at that kind of level. But I definitely think that playing through tons of pain this year, right down to hitting some 3's down the stretch while hobbling pretty badly against NCSU, is a pretty solid example of hunger and fire. I really think he was the one guy out there who believed we could win, up until he went out of the game.

[juise]

Sorry. I should have typed Jay-son. A lame attempt to subtly express my displeasure with his "name change" - which I understood originated at ESPN

I agree with starter that J-Will started going by "Jay" immediately after he left Duke, but I like your theory, so I'm going to run with it. Maybe ESPN is just trying to give all of it Dukie broadcasters the same name. Bilas set the precedent. Williams followed. They've already got their eyes on Redick. If Gminski ever get hired, no doubt he'll become the Jay-man. Heaven help us if Abby Waner gets pulled out of coaching (http://www.denverpioneers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=18600&ATCLID=205418618) and back into broadcasting.

[dw0827]

I agree with starter that J-Will started going by "Jay" immediately after he left Duke, but I like your theory, so I'm going to run with it. Maybe ESPN is just trying to give all of it Dukie broadcasters the same name. Bilas set the precedent. Williams followed. They've already got their eyes on Redick. If Gminski ever get hired, no doubt he'll become the Jay-man. Heaven help us if Abby Waner gets pulled out of coaching (http://www.denverpioneers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=18600&ATCLID=205418618) and back into broadcasting.

I thought he changed his name when he hit the NBA and didn't want to be confused with Jason Williams . . . who didn't exactly have a sterling reputation. So he went with Jay to differentiate himself and establish his own name recognition/brand. If I had to guess, I'd say that's something his agent would suggest, not ESPN.

Or I could be completely wrong. It happens often.

[BD80]

I agree with starter that J-Will started going by "Jay" immediately after he left Duke, but I like your theory, so I'm going to run with it. Maybe ESPN is just trying to give all of it Dukie broadcasters the same name. Bilas set the precedent. Williams followed. They've already got their eyes on Redick. If Gminski ever get hired, no doubt he'll become the Jay-man. Heaven help us if Abby Waner gets pulled out of coaching (http://www.denverpioneers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=18600&ATCLID=205418618) and back into broadcasting.

Don't overlook the fact that ESPN is in connecticut ... which I believe is owned by Jim Calhoun

[Edouble]

Well, of course J-Will was fantastic. Curry clearly isn't at that kind of level. But I definitely think that playing through tons of pain this year, right down to hitting some 3's down the stretch while hobbling pretty badly against NCSU, is a pretty solid example of hunger and fire. I really think he was the one guy out there who believed we could win, up until he went out of the game.

I have to agree with WVDukeFan. I am not a big fan of Curry either. To me, playing through pain does not equate to competitive fire. Lots of players play through some kind of pain, be it twisted ankles, sore legs, twisted ankles, knee braces, twisted ankles, etc.

Part of what rubs me wrong about Curry is how he is always smiling, laughing, doing this little wincing/winky face thing and messing with his mouth guard. The other members of the team always look intense, serious, and ready for a fight. I have never seen a whole lot of competitive fire in Curry. I actually see it the least in Curry, less than anyone on the team. His facial expressions and mannerisms just don't make me think Duke basketball. They make me think YMCA ball.

Anytime Jason Williams speaks, Curry needs to listen.

[subzero02]

Not to nitpick, but Jay actually changed his name when he left Duke for marketing reasons. Ironically, I think one of the things that went into it was he wanted to distance himself from Jayson Williams and his legal issues, plus the Jason Williams that played for the Kings at the time.

This is correct... before his name change, on at least one occasion, a major media outlet had done a story about our Jason Williams while showing a picture of the New Jersey Nets Jayson Williams.

[Jaymf7]

I did not see the comments at issue, but it strikes me that Curry's comments likely reflect the very strong influences he has had from his family members with extensive NBA experience (Dell and Steph). His POV is very much a pro view -- maintain focus and consistent effort, things will sort out to talent level in the end. J Will's expressed view is more typical of college ball -- go all out, work harder than everybody. I know J Will played pro ball,* but it sadly was a short stint and I doubt he has had as many ear-fulls as Seth got from his dad and brother.

This certainly doesn't mean Jay is wrong -- they ARE playing NCAA ball. Moreover, I think his main point (as relayed on this board) was not a shot at Curry for believing what he said, but rather for SAYING it. As a team leader, he feels Curry should not make any excuses. I am sure Coach K feels that way.

* Ironically, he played at Chicago, which before the Rose injury last year was noted for playing with 100% effort all season to obtain home court, but questioned for whether that level of effort would be sustainable or pay off down the stretch. This was more due to the fact that benches become less relevant in the NBA playoffs (starters play more) and the general level of intensity increases (eliminating Chicago's regular season "edge"). This always struck me as having some college versus pro nuance.

[MCFinARL]

Don't overlook the fact that ESPN is in connecticut ... which I believe is owned by Jim Calhoun

Sorry I missed your point the first time--but there was no missing this one! :D


I have to agree with WVDukeFan. I am not a big fan of Curry either. To me, playing through pain does not equate to competitive fire. Lots of players play through some kind of pain, be it twisted ankles, sore legs, twisted ankles, knee braces, twisted ankles, etc.

Part of what rubs me wrong about Curry is how he is always smiling, laughing, doing this little wincing/winky face thing and messing with his mouth guard. The other members of the team always look intense, serious, and ready for a fight. I have never seen a whole lot of competitive fire in Curry. I actually see it the least in Curry, less than anyone on the team. His facial expressions and mannerisms just don't make me think Duke basketball. They make me think YMCA ball.

Anytime Jason Williams speaks, Curry needs to listen.

Well, okay, I don't love seeing Seth's mouth guard either, but aren't you maybe giving facial expressions a bit too much weight here? Some players are fiery, some are intense/focused in ways that may show up differently, maybe even in smiles. Certainly we have seen plenty of games in which Seth stepped up and hit numerous big shots when it mattered most. Isn't wanting the ball (and using it well) when the game is on the line also part of competitive fire?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Part of what rubs me wrong about Curry is how he is always smiling, laughing, doing this little wincing/winky face thing and messing with his mouth guard. The other members of the team always look intense, serious, and ready for a fight. I have never seen a whole lot of competitive fire in Curry. I actually see it the least in Curry, less than anyone on the team. His facial expressions and mannerisms just don't make me think Duke basketball. They make me think YMCA ball.

Interesting - I look at the same expressions and mannerisms and see a guy who enjoys playing basketball and doesn't need to see it was a war or a fight. I see way too much false bravado in sports in general, basketball in particular. When Curry does get fired up and woof a little bit, it's genuine. Otherwise, he's good enough to beat you by being better, rather than having to play some intimidation game that involves sneering and posturing.

I see how you might interpret it as a lack of competitive fire, but this kid has pulled our bacon out of the oven on numerous occasions, and I've never felt he was giving less than 100% on the floor. I guess I see him as much better ambassador of Duke basketball than some of the self-congratulating talent at UNC in the mid to late 90's or the dancing fools they have had more recently.

Smiles are nice.

Or maybe I just like him.

Go Duke!

[pfrduke]

I have to agree with WVDukeFan. I am not a big fan of Curry either. To me, playing through pain does not equate to competitive fire. Lots of players play through some kind of pain, be it twisted ankles, sore legs, twisted ankles, knee braces, twisted ankles, etc.

Part of what rubs me wrong about Curry is how he is always smiling, laughing, doing this little wincing/winky face thing and messing with his mouth guard. The other members of the team always look intense, serious, and ready for a fight. I have never seen a whole lot of competitive fire in Curry. I actually see it the least in Curry, less than anyone on the team. His facial expressions and mannerisms just don't make me think Duke basketball. They make me think YMCA ball.

Anytime Jason Williams speaks, Curry needs to listen.

God forbid our guys enjoy themselves on the basketball court.

Questioning Curry's competitive fire based on observations of facial tics is ludicrous. Here are some things that have more to say about competitive fire:

February 9, 2011 - Duke hosts UNC, trails 43-29 at the half. Seth Curry (who didn't start that game - Tyler did) starts the second half, plays every minute of it, scores 18 points while shooting 6-8 from the field and, along with Nolan Smith, brings Duke back for a 79-73 victory. Among other things, he hit the shot that tied the game with 9+ minutes to play in the second half.

February 16, 2012 - Duke hosts NC State, trails 46-30 at the half. Seth Curry pours in 21 points in the second half leading the comeback.

These are merely examples. Seth Curry has consistently come up big in big games and at big moments for us. I have more confidence in him taking shots with the game on the line than anyone else on our team.

[Greg_Newton]

I don't think either approach is wrong. Every team has its own personality, and tends to take on that of its leaders. Jason was obviously a very dynamic player and personality, and played on some incredibly talented Duke teams. He had enough physical ability that he could impose his will on most opponents when he wanted to.

This team, OTOH, doesn't have that kind of size and athleticism across the board, nor does it have that same, crazy level of NBA talent; it is, however, very experienced and disciplined. Seth is a player with some physical deficiencies, but is very reliable and will make opponents pay if they ever ease up the slightest bit. It makes sense that this team often pulls away around halftime - they can't blow people away out of the gates like Jason's teams, but they're a steady, veteran bunch who know that teams will eventually give them a window if they keep pushing for 40 minutes.

Up until Kelly's injury, at least, it's hard to argue with the results of either.

[oldnavy]

God forbid our guys enjoy themselves on the basketball court.

Questioning Curry's competitive fire based on observations of facial tics is ludicrous. Here are some things that have more to say about competitive fire:

February 9, 2011 - Duke hosts UNC, trails 43-29 at the half. Seth Curry (who didn't start that game - Tyler did) starts the second half, plays every minute of it, scores 18 points while shooting 6-8 from the field and, along with Nolan Smith, brings Duke back for a 79-73 victory. Among other things, he hit the shot that tied the game with 9+ minutes to play in the second half.

February 16, 2012 - Duke hosts NC State, trails 46-30 at the half. Seth Curry pours in 21 points in the second half leading the comeback.

These are merely examples. Seth Curry has consistently come up big in big games and at big moments for us. I have more confidence in him taking shots with the game on the line than anyone else on our team.

Excellent Post! Thank you. I don't understand how Seth's competative fire could be questioned.

I would love to see the context of Seth's statement. As it was presented it was just the quote with no context, so it is hard to get a fair read on it.

I have no problem with what Seth says about jumping out to big leads. It is just not going to happen every night, I don't think he was making excuses or whinning. I think he was being factual about this team.

His quote was not a sign of weakness IMO. In fact, I think it was a sign of maturity.

How do you think Coach K would phrase it if asked about "slow" starts? Probably along the same lines that Seth did.

Another thing to consider is that the parity in college basketball has changed over the years. There are a lot of very good players in CBB. Most teams can field a team that is capable of hanging with just about any team for 10 minutes or so (of course there are exceptions), but the difference is in depth and having quality players at all 5 positions. That is what seperates the top tier from the next level, but that seperation is not what it used to be.

I find it strange in fact that this is a topic of discussion this year. I would say that over the past couple of years we may have started games with a little less intensity than would be desired, but I have not noticed that this year. In fact I have been impressed with the effort out of the gate from our players.

I think it was a stretch for Jay to pull this quote up and make an issue out of it. I love Jay Williams, but I will have to disagree with him on this topic.

[Duvall]

One note - Seth Curry's mouthpiece most often appears after a backbreaking three has caused the other team to call timeout, so I *love* seeing it show up on screen.

[Edouble]

One note - Seth Curry's mouthpiece most often appears after a backbreaking three has caused the other team to call timeout, so I *love* seeing it show up on screen.

The mouthpiece appears at any time when the clock in not running.

[Edouble]

God forbid our guys enjoy themselves on the basketball court.

I certainly hope they enjoy being on the court and wearing the Duke uniform. I think that was Jason Williams whole point. When you get on the court, it should be a privilege and a pleasure to wear the uniform and take it to your opponent right out of the gate. The best enjoyment is beating your opponent. I like the way Quinn, in particular, seems to enjoy himself on the court. He goes 100% and then gives a big hug/jump/smile to his teammates after a big play.


Questioning Curry's competitive fire based on observations of facial tics is ludicrous.

Well, I don't think he has any tics, but facial expressions are important. Coach K made a whole video of Hurley's whining expressions and showed it to him to light a fire under his butt.

[Duvall]

Well, I don't think he has any tics, but facial expressions are important. Coach K made a whole video of Hurley's whining expressions and showed it to him to light a fire under his butt.

An important difference being that Coach K actually knew Bobby Hurley, and wasn't just judging him based on a few camera shots on TV.

[Sir Stealth]

For what it's worth, J-Will was answering questions on the @ESPNCBB twitter feed about three hours ago and stated that he thinks Seth Curry is the best shooting guard in college basketball.

[cptnflash]

I recommend ignoring everything Jay says when he's on television. He is... not a good college basketball analyst. That's about all I can say without violating DBR's posting rules for destructive negativity.

[1999ballboy]

Coach K made a whole video of Hurley's whining expressions and showed it to him to light a fire under his butt.
On a side note, I was thinking that the staff should do this to Amile after the State game. I like the way he plays as much as anybody, but I did not think he carried himself well- throwing his arms up, opening his eyes wide in disbelief every time he fouled, and poor body language on the bench. It has never even crossed my mind that Seth needed any correction in this area, though.

(Edit: Just noticed that someone else pointed this same thing out in the Amile thread- but perhaps it's relevant to both threads.)

[KandG]

I recommend ignoring everything Jay says when he's on television. He is... not a good college basketball analyst. That's about all I can say without violating DBR's posting rules for destructive negativity.

Yup, this. Wonderful player for Duke, by all accounts a great guy in person. But like too many other ESPN announcers, prone to massive cliches and clumsy attempts to provide a forceful viewpoint to generate discussion. I have no problems with him criticizing Duke or what a Duke player says, within reason. He just hasn't found a "voice" as a commentator (the way Bilas has) that would make him memorable or worth paying attention to.

[mo.st.dukie]

I disagree with JWill. Obviously every athlete at this level (high major D-1) is extremely competitive and resilient. Seth wouldn't be at Duke right now and he certainly wouldn't be a starter and All-ACC performer if he wasn't extremely competitive and resilient. It's one thing to think that Duke should blow everybody out from the start but realistically that's not going to happen, not even against what some people might consider "lesser teams." I think even Coach K has acknowledged that this Duke team isn't a juggernaut, I think Curry and the rest of the group realizes that. Self-awareness is a huge component of working towards success. This Duke team is fantastic but let's face reality here, Coach K is right, this team isn't a juggernaut. Now next year's team may not be an overall better team than this year but it will have the ability to flat out overwhelm lesser teams with speed and athleticism. I think it shows tremendous resiliency to not get down or frustrated or start bickering and pointing fingers but instead to just keep grinding away and keep going at it until you succeed. That's what resiliency is.

I also think there might be some "coach speak" here. Coach K never disrespects opponents no matter who it is and I don't expect his players to either. Just because a Duke player or coach says something publicly doesn't mean that's exactly what they think or believe. It's also a way to gloss over something negative (the team's inability to blow teams away) and turn it into a positive (the team has the wherewithal to just keep working), again, something that probably has more to do wtih handling the media than the actual thoughts and beliefs of the player.

[SupaDave]

Nothing like a little bulletin board material to keep a team focused...

[kkwst2]

I have to agree with WVDukeFan. I am not a big fan of Curry either. To me, playing through pain does not equate to competitive fire. Lots of players play through some kind of pain, be it twisted ankles, sore legs, twisted ankles, knee braces, twisted ankles, etc.

Part of what rubs me wrong about Curry is how he is always smiling, laughing, doing this little wincing/winky face thing and messing with his mouth guard. The other members of the team always look intense, serious, and ready for a fight. I have never seen a whole lot of competitive fire in Curry. I actually see it the least in Curry, less than anyone on the team. His facial expressions and mannerisms just don't make me think Duke basketball. They make me think YMCA ball.

Anytime Jason Williams speaks, Curry needs to listen.

Sorry to be rude, but this has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've seen on this board. You're seriously judging a guy's intensity because of how he plays with his mouthguard? The guy has come up with big shot after big shot and willed us to several wins. Coach K clearly loves the guy, which should be enough of an endorsement of his heart for anyone. I really think you need to get a clue. Even completely discounting the injury, he's playing at a very high level and has improved remarkably in his time at Duke. It is frankly shocking that you would question his heart or his fire. He has clearly exceeded his raw athletic ability by a large margin. That doesn't happen without extreme dedication, practice, and drive. Unbelievable.

[Edouble]

An important difference being that Coach K actually knew Bobby Hurley, and wasn't just judging him based on a few camera shots on TV.

Not really. Do you know anything about psychology, body language, posture, etc. etc. The way people hold themselves is an insight into their psyche. It cracks me up how important this sort of thing is to Coach K, but noone around here cares about much besides stats. Many of you are sort of missing the point.

[Edouble]

Sorry to be rude, but this has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've seen on this board. You're seriously judging a guy's intensity because of how he plays with his mouthguard? The guy has come up with big shot after big shot and willed us to several wins. Coach K clearly loves the guy, which should be enough of an endorsement of his heart for anyone. I really think you need to get a clue. Even completely discounting the injury, he's playing at a very high level and has improved remarkably in his time at Duke. It is frankly shocking that you would question his heart or his fire. He has clearly exceeded his raw athletic ability by a large margin. That doesn't happen without extreme dedication, practice, and drive. Unbelievable.

Jason Williams seems to have questioned it, as have a few other posters in this thread. It's not some sin against Duke basketball. Jeez. The guy's intensity is not at the same level as past Duke players of note, and this is a team with Final Four aspirations. There's always room for improvement. If a Blue Devil legend wants to call out a current player, he should probably take a listen.

[kkwst2]

Jason Williams seems to have questioned it, as have a few other posters in this thread. It's not some sin against Duke basketball. Jeez. The guy's intensity is not at the same level as past Duke players of note, and this is a team with Final Four aspirations. There's always room for improvement. If a Blue Devil legend wants to call out a current player, he should probably take a listen.

That Jason Williams was a vastly superior athlete and player is not something I would disagree with. That doesn't equate to a great analyst though. JW was taking issue with the attitude expressed by Curry in an isolated comment to a question. I'm not sure he was fundamentally questioning his intensity or heart. You, on the other hand, are suggesting that somehow his quirky mannerisms imply some lack of intensity or heart. I think his results in the context of his athletic ability clearly suggest something entirely the opposite. The guy has consistently hit big shots and made big plays. How do you do that without being intense?

[Ian]

Personally, I think they are both right.

Both comments are in context with respect to the make up of the teams they played on.

JWill played on teams that was probably among the most explosive in Duke history. When you're playing on a team with 5 future NBA starters, you can probably step out on to the court and deliver knock out punches early.

Seth does not play on such teams, he plays on team that does not have that level of talent, and has to count on both defense and offense to get the job done, and wins more based on have better experience and decision making than their opponent. Thus his team win by playing efficient and methodical ball and letting the mistakes of the other team gradually pile up, so games are more about grinding it out and eventually pulling away.

J-Will's mentality is great for his teams, but it simply won't work for this Duke team.

[chainsaw]

very rarely post here, in fact I had to reset my password to post this.

Just wanted to put one thing out there that I haven't seen thus far in the thread. The 2001/2002 squad and season was incredibly frustrating for me. I remember them as a group of extremely talented players who lacked floor leadership and consistent intensity. Could they get up for games? Yes. I was at the MD game at Cameron that year (remember the Terps went on to win the NC) and it was a thing of beauty. But there were other games when they just mailed it in for much of the game, and then relied on superior talent to win it going away (my opinion). That drove me nuts. Shane and Nate were the clear leaders the year before and would never have put up with that attitude (remember the story of Shane jumping all over Jay his freshman year after we lost to FL). No one stepped into the role of floor leader the following year, not Jay, not Mike, not Carlos.

Maybe Jay doesn't want Seth to repeat his mistakes?

[killerleft]

I have to agree with WVDukeFan. I am not a big fan of Curry either. To me, playing through pain does not equate to competitive fire. Lots of players play through some kind of pain, be it twisted ankles, sore legs, twisted ankles, knee braces, twisted ankles, etc.

Part of what rubs me wrong about Curry is how he is always smiling, laughing, doing this little wincing/winky face thing and messing with his mouth guard. The other members of the team always look intense, serious, and ready for a fight. I have never seen a whole lot of competitive fire in Curry. I actually see it the least in Curry, less than anyone on the team. His facial expressions and mannerisms just don't make me think Duke basketball. They make me think YMCA ball.

Anytime Jason Williams speaks, Curry needs to listen.

Yeah, facial expressions are as useful as tea leaves, sheep's bladders, and bumps on the skull in telling the competitive fire of college basketball players. :rolleyes: I, for one, don't need to see a whole team of stern-faced anal retentive automatons out there on the court. The proof is in the pudding, and Seth Curry can cook, dude. It is to laugh. Personality: it does a body good.

[CDu]

I have to agree with WVDukeFan. I am not a big fan of Curry either. To me, playing through pain does not equate to competitive fire. Lots of players play through some kind of pain, be it twisted ankles, sore legs, twisted ankles, knee braces, twisted ankles, etc.

Part of what rubs me wrong about Curry is how he is always smiling, laughing, doing this little wincing/winky face thing and messing with his mouth guard. The other members of the team always look intense, serious, and ready for a fight. I have never seen a whole lot of competitive fire in Curry. I actually see it the least in Curry, less than anyone on the team. His facial expressions and mannerisms just don't make me think Duke basketball. They make me think YMCA ball.

Anytime Jason Williams speaks, Curry needs to listen.

This is the second time you've brought up the mouthguard thing, which leads me to believe it's really your primary complaint about Curry.

The guy is our best offensive player. He's the guy we go to down the stretch to hit big shots. Despite being undersized, not that quick or explosive, and not that strong, he manages to efficiently score points both inside and outside. And he wants the ball when the chips are on the line. There is very little about him that suggests he doesn't have a competitive fire.

It is a shame that his mannerisms and playing with his mouth guard are apparently causing you to overlook how important he is to this team, and how well he's playing this year for us.

[JNort]

Here are some things that have more to say about competitive fire:

February 9, 2011 - Duke hosts UNC, trails 43-29 at the half. Seth Curry (who didn't start that game - Tyler did) starts the second half, plays every minute of it, scores 18 points while shooting 6-8 from the field and, along with Nolan Smith, brings Duke back for a 79-73 victory. Among other things, he hit the shot that tied the game with 9+ minutes to play in the second half.

February 16, 2012 - Duke hosts NC State, trails 46-30 at the half. Seth Curry pours in 21 points in the second half leading the comeback.


Just because someone goes off or has a big game/half or comes up big in the clutch doesn't mean they have the intensity or fire. I agree though that I think he does have it and just shows it differently. Cook likes to yell and push around, Curry likes to put on a slick smile like he knows he crushed you, J-Will just wanted to embarrass you over and over again, JJ just enjoyed smiling and holding up the 3 fingers. Everyone of those guys falls into that category I would think.

My point is Curry just does his thing differently, he acts as if the opponent is beneath him which is demoralizing as a defender especially when he backs it up.

[CDu]

My point is Curry just does his thing differently, he acts as if the opponent is beneath him which is demoralizing as a defender especially when he backs it up.

Bingo. Not everyone has to have a mean game face to be a fierce competitor. Some folks just show their fire in different ways.

[tdrake51]

I agree with Jay. I have no problem with the way Seth plays, or his comments. I feel like him saying that we won't blow teams out from the start could turn into accepting it, and I don't think accepting an inferior team hanging around is good for anyone.

Now, I also think it is important to understand that you aren't going to jump up on everyone early. I think Seth's comments were explaining the slow starts, and not necessarily expressing his approach to the beginning of games.

Also FWIW, I don't understand the people questioning Seth's fire either, but all we have to go by is his play and demeanor. I don't have a problem with either.

[MaxAMillion]

Here we go again with the attacks because someone has a difference of opinion. So Jay Williams isn't good at his job unless he says positive things all the time about Duke? He was speaking to an overall attitude that he believes you need to have as a leader of a championship team. I see nothing wrong with his opinion (mostly because he is a former college player who has a better idea that most on what it takes to be succesful on the basketball court). I will never understand this need to discount people just because they hold a different point of view. Intolerance at its finest.

[mo.st.dukie]

I agree with Jay. I have no problem with the way Seth plays, or his comments. I feel like him saying that we won't blow teams out from the start could turn into accepting it, and I don't think accepting an inferior team hanging around is good for anyone.

Now, I also think it is important to understand that you aren't going to jump up on everyone early. I think Seth's comments were explaining the slow starts, and not necessarily expressing his approach to the beginning of games.


Right, and I agree that it's not good to accept an inferior team hanging around just like it's not good for a lesser team to just accept losing. The problem I have is when people attempt to take one little comment and try to use it to explain the entire mentality and outlook of a player and team. We don't even know what the exact quote was or the context of that quote. Who was Seth talking to? What was the question that he was answering? Were there other questions on the subject of slow starts before the question in which he answered with this comment? Was this after the loss the other day (in which case he may not have been in a great mood)? I just think people go WAY overboard with only little comment and this happens in so many areas of life and society. It's a big problem in politics where little sound bites and clips rule and nobody factors in context, it's just all about honing in on one sentence or one phrase and figuring out any way to spin that in your team's favor. It's just ridiculous to take one little sentence and then try to spin that into Seth not being a very good leader or not having the right mentality, etc. It's like when he commented in the offseason that this team like's each other and everybody tried to spin that one little comment into Austin being a lockeroom cancer or Seth being jealous of Austin or whatever other BS people wanted to make up in their own minds.

[Lord Ash]

Two thoughts:

First, I cannot help but think that Seth's comment sounds like a mirror of something that a coach may have said. You know... K might have said "Listen, we aren't going to be a team that blows people out... stick with your game, because we are a team that WILL wear a team down." Maybe someone on the coaching staff said something like this, and Seth is reflecting it? No real reason to think this except that it feels somewhat coach-speak.

Second... mouth guards are SUPER super uncomfortable, at least for me. I spit mine out whenever I could, and didn't wear it whenever that was an option. The fact that Seth likes to get it out of his mouth as often as possible isn't a sign of anything except they are INCREDIBLY uncomfortable.

[JNort]

Two thoughts:

First, I cannot help but think that Seth's comment sounds like a mirror of something that a coach may have said. You know... K might have said "Listen, we aren't going to be a team that blows people out... stick with your game, because we are a team that WILL wear a team down." Maybe someone on the coaching staff said something like this, and Seth is reflecting it? No real reason to think this except that it feels somewhat coach-speak.

Second... mouth guards are SUPER super uncomfortable, at least for me. I spit mine out whenever I could, and didn't wear it whenever that was an option. The fact that Seth likes to get it out of his mouth as often as possible isn't a sign of anything except they are INCREDIBLY uncomfortable.

Very true I hated them in football! Plus they make a good gum substitute if you want something to chew!

[wilko]

I dont get why Jay's (Williams or Bilas pick your flavor) comments get so much grief and consternation on the board.

They have something to sell - Themselves. I hold no grudges for whatever they may say the course of doing their jobs. Some of it may be as simple as: "not biting the hand that feeds" or understanding where their bread is buttered or just jockeying to have a populist view.

If the athletic dept wants to put them on retainer to only say positive things about Duke, then that's a different layer to the onion to be sure.

[SupaDave]

It's just a difference in eras and not just that but most don't realize that it's also a BIG difference in scheduling. For the most part Duke has only been scheduling tournament (or tournament worthy) teams in the non-conference schedule. That wasn't always the case in J.Will's 3 year stint. This Duke team isn't rolling 4 first round draft picks out with a point guard that dunking on centers.

Thinking you're gonna blow every team out can lead to some serious mental distress when things don't go right. It's how UNLV lost to Duke the second time around when they were like the gajillion point favorite. You've gotta be ready to fight the whole game in my opinion.

[timmy c]

Here we go again with the attacks because someone has a difference of opinion. So Jay Williams isn't good at his job unless he says positive things all the time about Duke? He was speaking to an overall attitude that he believes you need to have as a leader of a championship team. I see nothing wrong with his opinion (mostly because he is a former college player who has a better idea that most on what it takes to be succesful on the basketball court). I will never understand this need to discount people just because they hold a different point of view. Intolerance at its finest.

How do you feel about being intolerant towards intolerance?

[CDu]

It's just a difference in eras and not just that but most don't realize that it's also a BIG difference in scheduling. For the most part Duke has only been scheduling tournament (or tournament worthy) teams in the non-conference schedule. That wasn't always the case in J.Will's 3 year stint. This Duke team isn't rolling 4 first round draft picks out with a point guard that dunking on centers.

Thinking you're gonna blow every team out can lead to some serious mental distress when things don't go right. It's how UNLV lost to Duke the second time around when they were like the gajillion point favorite. You've gotta be ready to fight the whole game in my opinion.

The bolded part is not accurate. In Williams' freshman year, we played Stanford, UConn, USC, Michigan, Illinois, DePaul, and St. John's out of conference (along with the usual cannon fodder like Army, Columbia, W&M, and NC A&T. In Williams' sophomore year, we played Princeton, Villanova, Texas, Temple, Illinois, Michigan, Stanford, and St. John's. In his last year, we played Seton Hall, Iowa, Michigan, Kentucky, St. John's, and Boston College.

For as long as I remember, we've scheduled plenty of tough non-conference games. The 1999-2002 seasons were no exception.

It's true that we aren't rolling out 4 first round picks (technically, it was 3, as Boozer and Duhon were 2nd rounders), and that this team probably isn't as talented as the 2001 team. But the quality of our non-conference schedule remains very strong.

[SupaDave]

The bolded part is not accurate. In Williams' freshman year, we played Stanford, UConn, USC, Michigan, Illinois, DePaul, and St. John's out of conference (along with the usual cannon fodder like Army, Columbia, W&M, and NC A&T. In Williams' sophomore year, we played Princeton, Villanova, Texas, Temple, Illinois, Michigan, Stanford, and St. John's. In his last year, we played Seton Hall, Iowa, Michigan, Kentucky, St. John's, and Boston College.

For as long as I remember, we've scheduled plenty of tough non-conference games. The 1999-2002 seasons were no exception.

It's true that we aren't rolling out 4 first round picks (technically, it was 3, as Boozer and Duhon were 2nd rounders), and that this team probably isn't as talented as the 2001 team. But the quality of our non-conference schedule remains very strong.

You're missing the point. I said that was not always the case. I didn't say that we didn't play tough teams.

HOWEVER, based on what you just typed it's obvious they played some known cream puffs (my alma mater, NC A&T, was destroyed three times in that time span and hasn't been a true threat since our NCAA run in the early 90s but we've always respected K for the scheduling love). They beat the crap out of Davidson (three years in a row as well), they beat the crap out of Army (twice but we all understand why), they beat the crap out of St. Johns, they beat the crap out of William and Mary, they beat the stew out of Columbia, and they beat the crap out of Portland.

There's a big difference now with scheduling as the team participates in the Maui Invitational and other tournaments as to how K begins the season. Ironically the 2001-2002 season was the first season Duke competed in the Maui invitational - future pro Mike Dunleavy was the MVP. They played Seton Hall, South Carolina, and Ball State - not one ranked team. Since then the Maui invitational has been able to attract many more ranked teams.

TWO of those players from that 2001 team have had their jerseys retired btw...

And yes - I would say I was accurate.

[CDu]

You're missing the point. I said that was not always the case. I didn't say that we didn't play tough teams.

HOWEVER, based on what you just typed it's obvious they played some known cream puffs (my alma mater, NC A&T, was destroyed three times in that time span and hasn't been a true threat since our NCAA run in the early 90s but we've always respected K for the scheduling love). They beat the crap out of Davidson (three years in a row as well), they beat the crap out of Army (twice but we all understand why), they beat the crap out of St. Johns, they beat the crap out of William and Mary, they beat the stew out of Columbia, and they beat the crap out of Portland..



There are creampuffs on our current schedule, too. Or do you think that Cornell, Georgia State, and Elon are tough games. Every team has a few games each year that are creampuffs.

Actually, we lost to St. John's in 2000. Still think they were creampuffs on the schedule? We killed them in 2001. That's because we were REALLY good, not that St John's was bad.


There's a big difference now with scheduling as the team participates in the Maui Invitational and other tournaments as to how K begins the season.

As I mentioned before, that's not really accurate. We have, for the last 15 years at least, scheduled several tough non-conference opponents and a few cream puffs. This year is no exception.


Ironically the 2001-2002 season was the first season Duke competed in the Maui invitational - future pro Mike Dunleavy was the MVP. They played Seton Hall, South Carolina, and Ball State - not one ranked team. Since then the Maui invitational has been able to attract many more ranked teams.

That's not correct. We won in the Maui invitational in 1992 and 1997 before winning it in 2001. And the matchups we faced in the 2001 tournament were because teams like Kansas and UCLA were upset before facing us. The Maui tournament has never had trouble drawing good teams.

For your reference, here's a list of the results of the Maui over the years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maui_Invitational_Tournament

Lots of good teams have played in it, and did so long before 2001.


TWO of those players from that 2001 team have had their jerseys retired btw...

Where did I disagree that the 2001 team was really, really good? They had 5 players get drafted, 3 of them were high lottery picks (and a fourth turned out better than the NBA GMs thought and became an All Star out of the second round). In fact, that's a big part of WHY they were still able to kill some pretty good teams. What exactly is your point with this statement?


And yes - I would say I was accurate.

Not really.

[BD80]

How do you feel about being intolerant towards intolerance?

I despise intolerant people. ... And the Dutch.

[SupaDave]

lol! Split hairs all you want. No way this team blows out teams like those squads.

[CDu]

lol! Split hairs all you want. No way this team blows out teams like those squads.

I completely agree. I have never suggested that this team could blow teams out like the 2001 team. That team was, in my opinion, much better than this team.

I merely responded to your comment that we're scheduling tougher non-conference opponents now than when Williams played, which is not really accurate. We were playing plenty of good non-conference opponents in 1999-2001, too. And we played a few cream puffs back then too, just like we do now. This year we had a tougher-than-normal pre-season tournament (luck of the draw), but that's the only significant difference in terms of our scheduling approach.

That 2001 team was simply better than this team. And there's nothing wrong with that.