The Ryan Kelly Lower Extremity Vigil

[rsvman]

Let the speculation and worrying begin......

[CLW]

This could be VERY bad news as we are no where near as efficient (both offensively and defensively) with Kelly out and shades of last year's implosion are coming back to me. Hopefully, he's ok and will be ready to go Saturday.

[Cameron]

1-800-273-TALK ... a 24/7 harm prevention help line. I'm on hold.

[Edouble]

Better now than later. We need him in March. Good chance it's nothing, as there was no in game incident that caused it. I have a feeling ESPN would have found and shown any small collision or weird hit/landing.

[FerryFor50]

Better now than later. We need him in March. Good chance it's nothing, as there was no in game incident that caused it. I have a feeling ESPN would have found and shown any small collision or weird hit/landing.

He did get hit in the legs on made 3. But he didn't seem to be limping at all after that. Hopefully it's nothing.

[loran16]

@bluevsblue: In post game interview K just said " not sure if we're going to have Ryan Saturday or not"...

[jv001]

Better now than later. We need him in March. Good chance it's nothing, as there was no in game incident that caused it. I have a feeling ESPN would have found and shown any small collision or weird hit/landing.

The only hard contact was after Ryan made a three pointer. He came down hard on that play but got back up and ran back down court. Just hope it's not serious. Coach K just said on the post game that he didn't know if we'd have Ryan against State. GoDuke!

[SCMatt33]

@bluevsblue: In post game interview K just said " not sure if we're going to have Ryan Saturday or not"...

If this is a short term injury, Duke might actually be better off in the long run if we let Ryan rest on Saturday. Of coarse, the key phrase there is short term. The big guys off the bench need to get work in against legit teams. Even if we lose, it could end up like '92 having to learn to play without Bobby Hurley. However, my first thoughts are certainly towards Ryan's health. We definitely need him to reach our full potential.

[norduck]

Let the speculation and worrying begin......

More of a Mark Gottfried problem than a Duke problem. K at his finest.

[cptnflash]

Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt. Please don't be seriously hurt.

[TruBlu]

Did any of the fans in attendance notice if he had a boot, or if he was limping when he returned to the bench in the second half?

Hopefully, it is a minor bruise.

[davekay1971]

We just bought a bunny rabbit. 8 weeks old, we named her Ginger. She's a cute, lovable, agreeable little fur ball, but she seems a little confused as to why I'm furiously rubbing her feet right now...

[loran16]

Laura Keeley reports that Ryan Injured the same foot as last year he apparently injured it over Christmas as well

Ryan will have an MRI and CAT scan tomorrow

[bbosbbos]

Best wishes to R.K.


Laura Keeley reports that Ryan Injured the same foot as last year he apparently injured it over Christmas as well

Ryan will have an MRI and CAT scan tomorrow

[cptnflash]

Laura Keeley reports that Ryan Injured the same foot as last year he apparently injured it over Christmas as well

Ryan will have an MRI and CAT scan tomorrow

What is it with this team and foot injuries? Maybe we need to ditch Nike.

For Ryan's sake and the team's, I really hope he's ok. He's irreplaceable.

[nyesq83]

I have noticed that most of my ankle injuries have been initiated while wearing Nikes.

I know theirs are custom-fit, but it is an annoying coincidence. If Oregon was regularly competing against us in Bball, I would be really suspicious ;).

[ChrisP]

To quote my buddy Ralphie. Only I didn't say fudge...

[licc85]

I have noticed that most of my ankle injuries have been initiated while wearing Nikes.

I know theirs are custom-fit, but it is an annoying coincidence. If Oregon was regularly competing against us in Bball, I would be really suspicious ;).

Ugh . . . why did Kyrie have to sign with Nike?

Although Derrick Rose signed with Adidas and he blew out an ACL, I suppose I'll take a foot over a knee.

I've always played with Nikes, but now I'm seriously considering switching to Jordans for my next basketball shoe purchase . . .

[FerryFor50]

Ugh . . . why did Kyrie have to sign with Nike?

Although Derrick Rose signed with Adidas and he blew out an ACL, I suppose I'll take a foot over a knee.

I've always played with Nikes, but now I'm seriously considering switching to Jordans for my next basketball shoe purchase . . .

Aren't Jordans made by Nike?

[Newton_14]

Did any of the fans in attendance notice if he had a boot, or if he was limping when he returned to the bench in the second half?

Hopefully, it is a minor bruise.

No boot and no limp.

[uh_no]

Did any of the fans in attendance notice if he had a boot, or if he was limping when he returned to the bench in the second half?

Hopefully, it is a minor bruise.

looked fine to me (not sure if he was in a boot because of my angle, but seemed to be plenty mobile on the bench)

[dukelifer]

Duke is not the same team without Kelly. I expect he will not play on Saturday. The hope is that the injury will respond to rest. Time for the other guys to step up like Cook did today- but it will be a bit shaky as he brings both size and shooting. This State game was going to be tough even at full strength- first real road game all year. It will take a big effort to get a W.

[uh_no]

Duke is not the same team without Kelly. I expect he will not play on Saturday. The hope is that the injury will respond to rest. Time for the other guys to step up like Cook did today- but it will be a bit shaky as he brings both size and shooting. This State game was going to be tough even at full strength- first real road game all year. It will take a big effort to get a W.

though we put up gaudy points with kelly out, I think this was very much due to the faster tempo....we might have been slightly more efficient offensively, but we were light years better on the defensive end with ryan in (or so i think....i'm just waiting for someone to put in actual tempo based stats to prove me wrong )

we also looked terrible breaking the press....having a 6'11 ball handler in there might have helped

[licc85]

Aren't Jordans made by Nike?

Yeah . . crap . . . Time to go with Converse I guess.

[uh_no]

Yeah . . I guess so . . . Time to go with Converse I guess.

starbury's are where it's at

[OldPhiKap]

Where are all the folks who wet themselves because we do not get enough bench time during the season?

Having said this, we already have Seth playing with an injury. Have to assume this is precautionary/workable until confirmed differently.

[loran16]

Where are all the folks who wet themselves because we do not get enough bench time during the season?

Having said this, we already have Seth playing with an injury. Have to assume this is precautionary/workable until confirmed differently.

To be fair, Seth is a lot easier to play without. This is not to minimize seth's importance, because he's been huge - one of our two best scorers this year. But Seth plays a position that we already are rotating in a backup for a lot (Tyler) and we can play a small forward and move Sheed to the SF when Seth can't play.

By contrast, we have no one who can replace what ryan does in stretching the O. He was basically irreplacable. Hopefully it's nothing serious.

[cptnflash]

Just watched the replay of the end of the first half, looks like the injury happened on Ryan's drive with 57.3 seconds left. He took a handoff from Rasheed at the 3-point line, drove the lane, got fouled by DeMarcus Harrison, went down in a heap, got up, made both free throws, and came out of the game with a grimace on his face but no discernable limp that I can see. Didn't return after that.

[OldPhiKap]

To be fair, Seth is a lot easier to play without. This is not to minimize seth's importance, because he's been huge - one of our two best scorers this year. But Seth plays a position that we already are rotating in a backup for a lot (Tyler) and we can play a small forward and move Sheed to the SF when Seth can't play.

By contrast, we have no one who can replace what ryan does in stretching the O. He was basically irreplacable. Hopefully it's nothing serious.

Not disagreeing about Ryan's importance (or Seth's). My comment for those who have been complaining that we do not play our back-up wings enough. Here you go.

I am with you, Loran -- and K -- developing and playing, our best players and seniors is paramount.

[Utley]

Laura Keeley reports that Ryan Injured the same foot as last year he apparently injured it over Christmas as well

Ryan will have an MRI and CAT scan tomorrow

He sure didn't play like he was injured in the Wake game.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Yep, I saw him motion to come out in between those two free throws. Gutsy -- nailed them both before he sat down. I was really proud of all the guys pulling together after that -- especially Jefferson and Murphy stepping into the fray and being effective. In fact, I was proud of EVERYbody tonight. The band was terrific and fun and funny. We could actually feel the volume of the Crazies' chants way up where we sit. It wasn't a pretty night, mostly thanks to some of the goofiest calls we've seen recently, but all of Cameron hung together with the team.

It's good to be a Devil.
Love, Ima
PS One caveat. The Devil and the band need more practice on their surfing, though.:rolleyes:

[clg003]

We just bought a bunny rabbit. 8 weeks old, we named her Ginger. She's a cute, lovable, agreeable little fur ball, but she seems a little confused as to why I'm furiously rubbing her feet right now...

I think you have to kill the rabbit, chop of his foot and dip it in blue dye for that to work.

Let me know how it goes.

[PallasAthena]

Did any of the fans in attendance notice if he had a boot, or if he was limping when he returned to the bench in the second half?

Hopefully, it is a minor bruise.

I noticed that Ryan came to the bench from the locker room a few minutes late, with the trainer, and from the entrance closest to the Duke bench. Absolutely no limp, no ice, no boot. He stood for every time out at the edge of the huddle.

Fingers and toes crossed that this is minor.

[mkline09]

Death, Taxes, Duke Basketball Players hurting their feet. Get well soon Ryan

[ChrisP]

Just watched K's entire postgame presser on GoDuke.com and he really didn't seem overly concerned. As others here have noted, K used the word "precautionary" and also said that one of the assistants informed him that Ryan's foot was hurting right after K had put Kelly back in the game. Obviously, we all know what happened at the end of last season with Ryan hurt, and so I'm quite sure the coaching staff hasn't forgotten, either, so I'm betting they were just being extra careful regarding his foot.

Overall, K seemed to be in a great mood and very pleased with the team's progress and performance tonight. It always helps me to watch his comments in the postgame because I realize that a lot of what we, as fans fret and worry over is not always the important stuff.

[Chris Randolph]

Was unable to watch the game tonight, just got home and heard the news via ESPN that Kelly was injured and missed the 2nd half. From reading the posts, sounds somewhat promising that he wasn't limping to bad and wasn't in a boot. But then again Kyrie had an injury that he played with and seemed fine against Butler then missed what was basically the whole season. So it is hard to speculate based on what you see. MRI will tell the story

I hope for the sake of Ryan and Ryan only that he is going to be able to get back quick and make it through the rest of the season. Hate this for a senior who has worked his tail off to become the quality player he is today

[gep]

I found this quote from Coach K after the Wake Forest game discussing Alex, Amile, and Marshall...

"The development of every player is important. We are dealing in an injured player in Seth [Curry]. I know because he’s playing you think everything is good, but he’s not. He’s had gutty performances. Ryan [Kelly] was hurt during the holidays. He tweaked his foot. They have to be ready to go. And also for your future."

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205877061

So... maybe Ryan hasn't really gotten over his "tweaked foot". So... maybe just precautionary, as others have posted.

I REALLY HOPE SO...

[uh_no]

I found this quote from Coach K after the Wake Forest game discussing Alex, Amile, and Marshall...

"The development of every player is important. We are dealing in an injured player in Seth [Curry]. I know because he’s playing you think everything is good, but he’s not. He’s had gutty performances. Ryan [Kelly] was hurt during the holidays. He tweaked his foot. They have to be ready to go. And also for your future."

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205877061

So... maybe Ryan hasn't really gotten over his "tweaked foot". So... maybe just precautionary, as others have posted.

I REALLY HOPE SO...

sportscenter reported xray was inconclusive (which pretty much means it's not broken, I would think) and that he'd have an mri tomorrow

[-bdbd]

No boot and no limp.

The telecast showed him a couple times on the bench and he seemed to be just chatting or otherwise engaged and not in any noticeable pain.

[licc85]

Judging from comments in this thread, it doesn't seem like a serious injury, but with that said, I would not be too upset if the coaching staff took the cautious route with this and sat him for the NC State game. Even though it looks as if this could be our toughest game left on the regular season schedule, and we could very well end up losing without Ryan in the lineup, I'd want to make sure there's absolutely no chance for some kind of re-injury. This team has nothing left to prove in the regular season other than being able to win in a true road environment, and we will have plenty of other chances at that. (@Maryland should be a relatively good test, but @UNC ought to be a nice, comfortable laugher)

I'm scared to death because of recent injury to C.J. McCollum and also Robert Griffin III's injury while playing hurt. Ryan can't be replaced by anyone on the roster, so I'd want to make sure he's 100% before we put him back out there.

[rthomas]

Death, Taxes, Duke Basketball Players hurting their feet. Get well soon Ryan

The REAL Duke Curse.

[budwom]

Starting the old, reliable "six weeks from now is when" routine. Got it down pat by now.

[roywhite]

Starting the old, reliable "six weeks from now is when" routine. Got it down pat by now.

So you picked 6 weeks and picked Ryan? Very shrewd.

I picked Josh Hairston, right ankle, and a boot for 3 weeks. But what do I know? :p

[AtlBluRew]

Maybe it just seems like there are more foot injuries at Duke than at other places because we follow Duke so closely, but it sure does seem that way! IIRC, didn't a practice floor get replaced after the Trajan Langdon years because that floor was thought to be a contributing factor to Trajan's injuries?r

In any event, I too hope that Ryan isn't seriously injured, and doesn't get seriously injured. I admire him greatly.

[uh_no]

So you picked 6 weeks and picked Ryan? Very shrewd.

I picked Josh Hairston, right ankle, and a boot for 3 weeks. But what do I know? :p

tyler thornton....in the kitchen....with the lead pipe?

[DukieInBrasil]

tyler thornton....in the kitchen....with the lead pipe?

Nate James....in the world of Nate James....with the Nate James?

[timmy c]

Nate James....in the world of Nate James....with the Nate James?

Is that legal???

[Starter]

sportscenter reported xray was inconclusive (which pretty much means it's not broken, I would think) and that he'd have an mri tomorrow

I'm certainly no doctor, but when I fractured my heel a few months back, they did an X-Ray and said they saw "an inconsistency," but they were unwilling to commit to what it actually meant. They thought it was fractured, but for a non-displaced hairline fracture, an X-Ray is unable to fully detect it. They gave me a CT Scan, and that picked it up.

Mind you, I'm not saying Kelly's foot is broken, I have literally no idea, just that an X-Ray can't really rule out a whole lot of injuries.

[uh_no]

I'm certainly no doctor, but when I fractured my heel a few months back, they did an X-Ray and said they saw "an inconsistency," but they were unwilling to commit to what it actually meant. They thought it was fractured, but for a non-displaced hairline fracture, an X-Ray is unable to fully detect it. They gave me a CT Scan, and that picked it up.

Mind you, I'm not saying Kelly's foot is broken, I have literally no idea, just that an X-Ray can't really rule out a whole lot of injuries.

oh cool! thanks for that info. we'll see what happens with the mri

[subzero02]

Hopefully a diagnosis will come out in the next few hours.

[DukieInBrasil]

Is that legal???

Doesn't matter. He doesn't follow the law, the law follows him and begs permission to be granted a mere whiff of the order he installs. Nate James is a law unto himself.

[savekyriestoe]

Yeah . . crap . . . Time to go with Converse I guess.

Also owned by Nike.

[jimsumner]

'He'll have an MRI. At the very least.

Kelly came back after the half, with no noticeable limp and stood up whenever standing up was called for. At first, I thought he might be under the wearher.

If only.

He did leave the bench area before the game was over. But I suspect that was so he could clear the locker room before folks like me could descend on him.

I would caution against the automatic assumption that this is bad news. Remember the angst when Lance Thomas hurt his knee against Carolina in 2010? Didn't miss a game.


FWIW, we were told that he tweaked the foot over the holidays. Same foot, different injury. But no, I don't like the trend lines.

So, we shall see.

[HateCarolina]

'He'll have an MRI. At the very least.

Kelly came back after the half, with no noticeable limp and stood up whenever standing up was called for. At first, I thought he might be under the wearher.

If only.

He did leave the bench area before the game was over. But I suspect that was so he could clear the locker room before folks like me could descend on him.

I would caution against the automatic assumption that this is bad news. Remember the angst when Lance Thomas hurt his knee against Carolina in 2010? Didn't miss a game.


FWIW, we were told that he tweaked the foot over the holidays. Same foot, different injury. But no, I don't like the trend lines.

So, we shall see.

Thanks for those thoughts Jim. I am popping on here during work to see if there is an update and having read through the previous posts the "sky was definitely falling", but hopefully this will be a similar situation to Lance in 2010.

Just to put out there to the "foot gods"....I'm willing to run over my own foot if you agree to heal Ryan's ASAP.

[mkline09]

As I suggested they do with Kyrie Irving's toe, I think that they just need to do a blood transfusion on Ryan from Nate James. After that he'll be able to kick down a brick wall.

[MChambers]

Is it too early to say "it's over"?

[JayBean]

As I suggested they do with Kyrie Irving's toe, I think that they just need to do a blood transfusion on Ryan from Nate James. After that he'll be able to kick down a brick wall.

I heard that was actually edited out from The Dark Knight Rises. Supposedly, when Batman realized that his knee was no longer good, rather than go with a mechanical knee brace, he would have just gotten a transfusion from Nate James. This idea was scrapped because it lead to the question of why wouldn't Nate James just fight Bane, save Gotham, and let Batman stay retired... :p

[-bdbd]

Is it too early to say "it's over"?

It's NEVER too early to panic on a internet chatboard!!!
;)

[jamesfrommaiden]

Of course it hurts the team. There is no doubt about it. However I do not think the team is doomed to collapse like it did at the end of last year without him. This is a totally different team. Not only in talent, but in chemistry as well. I do not see this team falling apart under any situation regardless of the circumstances. There is a certain strength or will to win with this team that was not there last season. I have complete confidence in Quinn and Mason to step it up and we cant forget we still have Seth. I believe this could be an oppurtunity for the likes of Amile and Alex to really step up their games and earn serious playing time for Coack K. This could also be the moment that Marshall takes a step forward in his development as well. Who is to say that Sheed cant play a more pivotal role in the offense. If Duke continues to play as a fist I think everything will be fine. Then when Ryan comes back there will be no stopping the Devils from winning number five. If Ryan is even out for any amount of time at all that is.

[CharlestonDevil]

It's NEVER too early to panic on a internet chatboard!!!
;)

Just go over to IC.

[geraldsneighbor]

If Kelly is out Saturday, it'd be very interesting to see how it impacts the bench. Likely Hairston would start, but you would have to imagine increased run for Murphy and Marshall. It really would hurt in this particular game to short-handed up front w/ what NCSU has. At the same time, I rest RK unless he is 100%. This is a game in early January and there is no sense in losing him for an extended period. I hope Ryan has a speedy recovery and returns soon. I would hate to see him miss a long time considering it being his senior season and how well he has played this year.

[nocilla]

So, is no news good news? Or bad news? Or just no news? Anyone care to speculate on what our speculation should be about no news?

[OldPhiKap]

So, is no news good news? Or bad news? Or just no news? Anyone care to speculate on what our speculation should be about no news?

Some say the glass is half-empty, some say the glass is half-full.




I say "bartender, keep 'em coming."

[Fish80]

So, is no news good news? Or bad news? Or just no news? Anyone care to speculate on what our speculation should be about no news?

At this point, Doctors are 90% sure Kelly has 5 metatarsals in his right foot.

[MCFinARL]

Some say the glass is half-empty, some say the glass is half-full.




I say "bartender, keep 'em coming."

I'm with you. But trying to be serious, I'm guessing no news is no news--either because they are waiting for someone (or someone else) to look at the test results or because they aren't sure yet what the implications of what they have heard are for Kelly's ability to play, or maybe just because they wanna mess with NCState for another day or two :D Given he just had his exam this morning, it's hard to draw any conclusions from the silence.

[Kishiznit]

His girlfriend just posted on twitter "Everything happens for a reason"

[ncexnyc]

Where are all the folks who wet themselves because we do not get enough bench time during the season?

Having said this, we already have Seth playing with an injury. Have to assume this is precautionary/workable until confirmed differently.

Exactly what do you expect anyone would say? That they're happy Ryan is injured. While I don't mind seeing what our other kids can do, I doubt there is anyone on the board who would want a position to come open due to an injury to another player.

[subzero02]

Well... I was expecting to hear something by now... Especially considering they announced the time of day he was to have the MRI.

[Mike Corey]

"Ryan Kelly is out indefinitely with a right foot injury."

So says the offiical Duke bball Twitter account.

[jds2k]

From the Duke Men's Basketball twitter feed, "Ryan Kelly is sidelined indefinitely with right foot injury. Avg. 14.4 points and shot 67.7 pct from 3pt range in Duke's previous 9 game"

[SoCalDukeFan]

"Ryan Kelly is out indefinitely with a right foot injury."

One of the great things about this year's team is that all players seemed to have and know their roles. Ryan was playing what some call the "stretch 4."
He was tall enough that a short guy could not guard him and a good enough outside shot that the big guy guarding him out to go outside, which opened up the inside. I don't know if we have anyone else who can really play that position.

So its not a simple matter of putting in a replacement. Not sure if we have another "big" who shoots well enough from the outside to require close guarding.

If there is good news in this its that the best coach and the best coaching staff in college basketball had 4 days to figure out what to do.

SoCal

[crimsonandblue]

Best wishes to Kelly on a speedy recovery.

[moonpie23]

bummer......ugh.....i feel for these athletes......they give their bodies up...yes, it's part of the game, but man they ALL (injuries) seem so untimely...

dang


:(

[luigi90]

maybe amile jefferson gets the start so Coach can stick with his bench rotation? will be interesting to see if its Hairston or not.

[Bluedog]

maybe amile jefferson gets the start so Coach can stick with his bench rotation? will be interesting to see if its Hairston or not.

I would bet it's going to be Hairston although I would personally like to see Amile, especially since he chose us over NC State! ;)

[Bluealum]

"Ryan Kelly is out indefinitely with a right foot injury."

So says the offiical Duke bball Twitter account.

What a bummer, and it's way too late to redshirt. Never like for it to happen to any player, but it stings the most when it's a senior captain who is off to a banner season. Hope he has a speedy and complete recovery!

There is a major opportunity for Alex, Amile, and Josh to step up into a completely new role for this team. It's a great thing that we have players with such potential available this year.

Unfortunately, whoever this is, it is going to change the team dynamic, and likely make things a little tougher for Mason. Alex may be the most similar to Ryan, in that he can handle the ball and has some semblance of an outside shot, but he is not going to shoot over 50% from 3 over a span of 9 games anytime this year!

Good luck RK, hope to see you back in form well before the tourney!

[DukieinSoCal]

Jeff Goodman has been tweeting about the injury:
More on Ryan Kelly from source: "It's not broken. He just re-aggravated a previous injury. Hoping its just a couple weeks"
And earlier: "It'll be at least a couple weeks. Minimum."

I guess the good news is that it's not broken. Hopefully, Ryan will be back soon.

[Marc81]

"We feel very badly for Ryan," said Krzyzewski. "He is playing the best basketball of his career and this is a tough setback for him. We're hoping for a good recovery and we are optimistic about his return."

Link (http://www.digtriad.com/sports/article/262809/13/Dukes-Ryan-Kelly-Sidelined-Indefinitely-With-Right-Foot-Injury)

Atleast at this point they are optimistic he will be back.

[Phoenix22]

Are we going to see a double Plumlee?

[Wander]

Sucks, but we're built to withstand it at this position. At least one of Jefferson/Murphy will likely turn out to be capable enough to hold down the fort.

[OldSchool]

The big question is how long is Ryan likely to be out for? Only a few weeks, or the rest of the season?

If he is expected to be back by mid- to late-February, I would not try to change the playing style of the team much. The biggest opportunity is there for Alex, because he has a better 3-pt shot capability than Josh or Amile and is more of a natural stretch-4. He could go from bench-warmer to starter if he can show the coaches that he can hold down the fort at the stretch-4 position sufficiently not to disrupt the team’s playing style while waiting for Ryan to return. I would start Quinn, Seth, Rasheed, Alex and Mason if Ryan will return in a few weeks and see if that lineup will work for us. Amile will get significantly more minutes off the bench at the 4 in this scenario.

If Ryan is out for the season, I would make a more dramatic change and, if Marshall’s foot is 100% now, I would start Marshall at the 5 and Mason at the 4. Mason is experienced enough to make the shift, and played together with Miles enough in past years that he can easily move to the 4. I am a big fan of Josh but the inescapable fact is that he is undersized at the 5 position, and doesn’t give us the offense at the 4 position that Mason does. I would start Quinn, Seth, Rasheed, Mason and Marshall if Ryan will not return in a few weeks. What we would need from Marshall is not overly aggressive play, but just using his size and athleticism to play solid, fundamental basketball in defensive positioning, back screens, rebounding, garbage points and collecting the occasional lob. This would be a big change in our offensive style, but it will be very hard for teams to match up with us on the front line given our size and athleticism at the 4 and the 5.

Obviously, in either situation there will be some big bumps in the road and some losses but given that we have two months of playing time ahead, the goal is to be in the best position come March.

[jipops]

I think this could very well be a blessing in disguise. Sure we'll miss him Saturday but I actually don't think we win with him anyways. Obviously this gives Amile and Alex more opportunity for burn and possibly even Marshall. There will be some bumps of course and we'll drop some games as a result but if we get him back by 2/2 then I think we're in good shape and possibly better than we have been.

[Bluealum]

Are we going to see a double Plumlee?

I would be shocked if this ever happens. Now that Kelly is out, I suspect Marshall becomes the designated backup for Mason when he is out, which may only be a couple of minutes a game unless there is foul trouble. Even then he likely won't be in during close end of game situations, despite any foul trouble for Mason, as he does not appear to be a great foul shooter or a great passer at this point in his career.

Hairston, Jefferson, and Murphy will challenge for the starting role at the '4' with the other two putting in minutes at that spot, till one really emerges. Marshall should get a few more minutes, but that may only be because Hairston will now play the 4 rather than backing up Mason.

We have plenty of capable bodies, but no one like Ryan, we will be a different team with a different offensive and defensive dynamic. It should be interesting to watch how we change the way we play in the next few weeks.

PS - I completely agree with Oldschool that the potential length of Ryan's absence will affect who plays. If he is anticipated back soon it favors Alex. If not, I am not sure it favors Marshall though, as having another less mobile 'big' may negatively impact Mason. It may however favor a quick rebounder with a knack for the basket who occupies much less room, and happily we have Amile as a nice fit for that role.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

Gosh this type of stuff seems to bite us every year. I think we have some players on the bench ready to step up. I think Josh deserves a shot at a start at the same time starting Jefferson could keep rotation in tact. Jefferson's energy could help us on the road.

[mr. synellinden]

How many people just looked at the schedule to see for which game Kelly might return?

Is 2/7 against N.C. State in Durham too optimistic?

Remember - Hurley broke his foot in 1992, and that season turned out okay.

Boozer broke his foot in 2001, and that season turned out okay.

If I had to put my money on one player taking most advantage of this opportunity, it's Jefferson. The kid can really play, and I expect to see his game advance quite a bit with more playing time. I also think Sully will resume his role as a consistent scorer with Kelly out.

[Chris Randolph]

I won't speculate as to what the coaching staff will do, style-wise, to replace Ryan and put the best product on the floor. The "indefinitely" tag scares me. That said, as some of you have stated, I like the idea that it gives other guys a chance to step up and get better. And if Ryan makes a strong comeback, the bench will be that much better/experienced.

I just hate it for Ryan, what a great season he was having. Tremendous work from his freshman year to get here.

Stinking foot injuries have crushed us the last 3 years!!!! Geez

[cptnflash]

I think this could very well be a blessing in disguise. Sure we'll miss him Saturday but I actually don't think we win with him anyways. Obviously this gives Amile and Alex more opportunity for burn and possibly even Marshall. There will be some bumps of course and we'll drop some games as a result but if we get him back by 2/2 then I think we're in good shape and possibly better than we have been.

This is in no way a blessing in disguise. As Coach K himself has said many times, the continued development of our starters is much more important than the development of our bench. Ryan's development is now halted indefinitely, he will regress from a conditioning standpoint, and his absence will affect the development of our other starters because they'll have to make adjustments in the way we play due to his absence. We have no one available that even comes close to matching Ryan's skill set, experience, and leadership on offense and defense.

There is no way to spin this as anything other than a collosal setback for Ryan and the team. I feel so bad for Ryan especially. As Coach said, he was playing the best basketball of his career. I hope he gets better and can make it back this year, but "indefinitely" sounds pretty ominous to me, particularly given that this is a reinjury situation.

[Cameron]

Again, that number is 1-800-237-TALK. According to their website, they are supposedly very good at negotiating suicides.

This is a nightmare.

[loran16]

Sucks, but we're built to withstand it at this position. At least one of Jefferson/Murphy will likely turn out to be capable enough to hold down the fort.

Huh? Built to withstand it? Yes one of those guys, if not both will eventually be able to hold down the fort.

But they're freshmen who have barely played (Yes Murphy redshirted last year - still a frosh), whereas Ryan was a senior whose role was clear. In addition, neither plays like Ryan at all for good reason, meaning that the team's general strategy on O will have to change. And Fast.

We are not built to withstand Kelly's injury. We just hope that the guys can step up fast - but it's mostly a hope.

[jipops]

This is in no way a blessing in disguise. As Coach K himself has said many times, the continued development of our starters is much more important than the development of our bench. Ryan's development is now halted indefinitely, he will regress from a conditioning standpoint, and his absence will affect the development of our other starters because they'll have to make adjustments in the way we play due to his absence. We have no one available that even comes close to matching Ryan's skill set, experience, and leadership on offense and defense.

There is no way to spin this as anything other than a collosal setback for Ryan and the team. I feel so bad for Ryan especially. As Coach said, he was playing the best basketball of his career. I hope he gets better and can make it back this year, but "indefinitely" sounds pretty ominous to me, particularly given that this is a reinjury situation.

You obviously don't remember 2001.

[cptnflash]

You obviously don't remember 2001.

I would say you obviously underestimate Ryan's value.

[jipops]

I would say you obviously underestimate Ryan's value.

I would say you did not read my post.

K will make the best of the situation. Amile and Alex may very well garner valuable game experience. I think Hairston will mostly be a back up to Mason. If we get Kelly back by early Feb, the kid we ALL value heavily, we could ultimately end up being a better team than we have been.

It's ok to try to be positive.

[dukelifer]

I think this could very well be a blessing in disguise. Sure we'll miss him Saturday but I actually don't think we win with him anyways. Obviously this gives Amile and Alex more opportunity for burn and possibly even Marshall. There will be some bumps of course and we'll drop some games as a result but if we get him back by 2/2 then I think we're in good shape and possibly better than we have been.

This State game is going to be a tough one. Road games in ACC are always difficult. Duke could rally together and play great or it could be ugly. It is asking a lot for Freshman to step up in their first real road game. Murphy may be improving but this could be difficult game to get confidence. I am hoping Duke can make a game of it and play good D throughout. This will be a big test for the team. But as you say- the team has time to adjust and I agree they should get better with time and important bench players will be called on to do more. Will be interesting to see the maturation process.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Does anyone think there is a chance he could be back in for the Maryland game Jan 26?

I always construe the word "indefinitely" as worse than anything besides "for the season" but Goodman tweeted a few weeks maybe! Ahhhh I'm going crazy!! Why Ryan why??

[ncexnyc]

I would say you obviously underestimate Ryan's value.
Ryan is a key member of the team, there is no doubt about it, however the key word is TEAM. If the potential loss of one player derails our season, then maybe we weren't that good of a team to begin with.

Alex, Amile, and Marshall were asked to come to Duke for a reason. It's because they are talented young men who can play. The team is lead by the winningest coach in the history of the game, I have faith that Coach K and his staff will be able to put together a more than capable gameplan if indeed Ryan is out for any length of time.

[gwlaw99]

Is there a reason that they won't say what the injury is?

[subzero02]

This is terrible... He really was starting to reach another level in his play

[cptnflash]

I would say you did not read my post.

K will make the best of the situation. Amile and Alex may very well garner valuable game experience. I think Hairston will mostly be a back up to Mason. If we get Kelly back by early Feb, the kid we ALL value heavily, we could ultimately end up being a better team than we have been.

It's ok to try to be positive.

If we get Ryan back by early February, I'll be ecstatic. Thinking positively right now means hoping that Ryan's injury isn't too severe and that he's able to recover quickly and return to the team at full strength and effectiveness. In that sense, I'm totally being positive. But thinking that his absence will somehow make us a better team in the long run is being unrealistic. If that were the case, Coach would have been playing him fewer minutes to begin with.

[-jk]

Is there a reason that they won't say what the injury is?

K rarely does. Cone of Silence.

-jk

[atomicdukie]

I just saw this report saying Ryan will be out for 2-4 weeks...still fingers crossed but would be GREAT news if this report is accurate

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2013/1/9/3857938/ryan-kelly-injury-duke-blue-devils-ankle

[cptnflash]

I just saw this report saying Ryan will be out for 2-4 weeks...still fingers crossed but would be GREAT news if this report is accurate

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2013/1/9/3857938/ryan-kelly-injury-duke-blue-devils-ankle

Oh man, I really hope that's true. That would be awesome news!

[Cameron]

So it is 100 percent certain that Ryan will not be playing in Raleigh? I'm sick to my stomach right now and not thinking all that clearly, so even though that answer is clear as day, I need somebody to tell me that. I just want to believe.

[pamtar]

The word indefinitely makes me want to pull my hair out.

[jipops]

If we get Ryan back by early February, I'll be ecstatic. Thinking positively right now means hoping that Ryan's injury isn't too severe and that he's able to recover quickly and return to the team at full strength and effectiveness. In that sense, I'm totally being positive. But thinking that his absence will somehow make us a better team in the long run is being unrealistic. If that were the case, Coach would have been playing him fewer minutes to begin with.

No, it's not the least bit unrealistic. K goes with the philosophy of relying heavily on his starters because they earned those minutes. They want those minutes. And yes, having a core that develops together has been his philosophy as well. So simply sitting one of those core guys for the sake of getting a bench guy more burn both undermines these points as well as presenting a risk. Now there is no risk because there is no choice. The bench has to be thrown in. But if it can be made to work, K will make it work. If Kelly comes back healthy in about a month, we may actually find some positives.

Yes there are IFs here. But none of this is unrealistic, I bet K doesn't think it is.

[tbyers11]

I just saw this report saying Ryan will be out for 2-4 weeks...still fingers crossed but would be GREAT news if this report is accurate

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2013/1/9/3857938/ryan-kelly-injury-duke-blue-devils-ankle

That piece probably got its info from this Jeff Goodman blog (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21527773/dukes-ryan-kelly-out-extended-period-with-foot-injury) post stating that 2 weeks is best case with 4 weeks being more likely. These types of injuries rarely have cut and dry time tables. However, Goodman usually knows his stuff so this info is probably as accurate a timeline as we will get for awhile. Also mentions that it is not a break and a re-aggravation of the December injury.

Never a good thing to lose one of your best players but from the glass half full view this gives Amile and/or Alex a big chance to step up and become a major contributor.

[cptnflash]

Ryan is a key member of the team, there is no doubt about it, however the key word is TEAM. If the potential loss of one player derails our season, then maybe we weren't that good of a team to begin with.

I disagree with this. Look at the 2010 team - take any one of our 5 starters off that team, and we don't win the national championship. This was confirmed by the coaching staff when they named all five guys as co-MVP's at the end of season awards dinner. That team wasn't just good, it was great, but it took all five guys to do it. I think this year's team is exactly the same.

[Kedsy]

If the potential loss of one player derails our season, then maybe we weren't that good of a team to begin with.

I disagree too. Think the Heat would have won the NBA title without LeBron? Or without Dwyane? Or even Bosh? Taking away one of any team's top three players is likely to derail things for them.

[Newton_14]

This is in no way a blessing in disguise. As Coach K himself has said many times, the continued development of our starters is much more important than the development of our bench. Ryan's development is now halted indefinitely, he will regress from a conditioning standpoint, and his absence will affect the development of our other starters because they'll have to make adjustments in the way we play due to his absence. We have no one available that even comes close to matching Ryan's skill set, experience, and leadership on offense and defense.

There is no way to spin this as anything other than a collosal setback for Ryan and the team. I feel so bad for Ryan especially. As Coach said, he was playing the best basketball of his career. I hope he gets better and can make it back this year, but "indefinitely" sounds pretty ominous to me, particularly given that this is a reinjury situation.


I could take your post, replace the name "Ryan" with "Carlos" and post back in time in a 2001 thread. In fact, the day after the Maryland game where my former DBR namesake broke his foot, I said the exact same thing to a buddy of mine at work. I told him we would get crushed at the upcoming game in Chapel Hill, and likely not win another game other than maybe the first round game in the ACC tourney because: We have no one else that can do what Carlos Boozer does, and we can't win without him. Casey does not have the skill level Carlos does. We are doomed.

I was wrong. Totally wrong. As wrong as I have ever been in my life. Much like you are here. It is very bad for Ryan because he is balling and having a career year and is a Sr Captain. But, if, like Carlos, Ryan can come back a little sooner than expected, there is no reason he can't get his mojo back, and the guys that will get increased PT while Ryan is out, could very well benefit from it. If they perform well, their confidence will sky rocket, which could lead to the team being even stronger in March than they would have without the injury.

If he is gone for the season, then that is entirely different. But it appears this is a 2 to 4 week deal and today is only January 9th. He could be back by Feb 1st raring to go.

No need to jump off the cliff as it stands right now.

[cptnflash]

No, it's not the least bit unrealistic. K goes with the philosophy of relying heavily on his starters because they earned those minutes. They want those minutes. And yes, having a core that develops together has been his philosophy as well. So simply sitting one of those core guys for the sake of getting a bench guy more burn both undermines these points as well as presenting a risk. Now there is no risk because there is no choice. The bench has to be thrown in. But if it can be made to work, K will make it work. If Kelly comes back healthy in about a month, we may actually find some positives.

Yes there are IFs here. But none of this is unrealistic, I bet K doesn't think it is.

We're going to have to agree to disagree about this one. I understand wanting to look for positives in everything, and over the next several weeks I'm sure we'll hear lots of talk about guys taking advantage of opportunities, stepping into new roles, etc. That's all great, and of course Coach K will do the best he can with the guys he has available. I fully expect us to be competitive and probably win a lot of our games in Ryan's absence. Meanwhile, I will continue to view Ryan's absence as a setback, and I'll continue to think positively about Ryan's recovery and return to the team, because in my mind he's irreplaceable (just like our other four starters) if we have championship aspirations.

[jipops]

We're going to have to agree to disagree about this one. I understand wanting to look for positives in everything, and over the next several weeks I'm sure we'll hear lots of talk about guys taking advantage of opportunities, stepping into new roles, etc. That's all great, and of course Coach K will do the best he can with the guys he has available. I fully expect us to be competitive and probably win a lot of our games in Ryan's absence. Meanwhile, I will continue to view Ryan's absence as a setback, and I'll continue to think positively about Ryan's recovery and return to the team, because in my mind he's irreplaceable (just like our other four starters) if we have championship aspirations.

I look forward to you being pleasantly surprised.

[mkirsh]

I disagree too. Think the Heat would have won the NBA title without LeBron? Or without Dwyane? Or even Bosh? Taking away one of any team's top three players is likely to derail things for them.

The Heat didn't have Bosh for a chunk of the playoffs due to injury.

It's hard to lose any starter, but hard to throw in the towel on the season. Yes, if out for a while Ryan undoubtedly leaves big shoes to fill and we will need Alex, Josh, and Amile to step up (likely others as well), and we may even need to substantially change our style of play. But just as no one expected this year's team to be as good as it has been, I wouldn't underestimate what this group is still capable off. Also like the opportunity to play with a chip on our shoulder of people thinking we are done.

[gofurman]

How many foot injuries have we had since 99?

I recall Brand (fr year 98), Boozer (end of year 2001), Kyrie Irving (basically whole year 2010), Kelly (twice -jnr and Senior year),

Who else and how long? Wasnt Hurley out for awhile wtih a Broken Foot? can someone confirm that?

thanks for any information here.

[Son of Jarhead]

Is there a reason that they won't say what the injury is?

I think they are being vague on purpose. They might not have a complete report or enough to make a specific prognosis yet. The same would be true of recovery time.

To me, the second half of the Clemson game, when Clemson pressed full court, provided us with an example of just how valuable Ryan is to this team. Ryan is usually the inbounder there, and his decision making, his passing, his height allowing him to see over the defense, and his ability to handle the ball make pressing us almost pointless. Of course, we got a good example of Ryan's importance at the end of last season, too. His skill set is unique and will be hard to replace. Going forward, I think Josh will start, at least at first. Someone else, Alex or Amile, could step up and earn the spot, but Josh has already put in the work to earn it. Josh will be effective for us on D, but our offense will change. Hopefully, he'll be able to hit a few of those 15-footers he likes to keep the defense honest. His form looks good, he is just not hitting them in games, but the fact he takes them regularly tells me the coaches have some confidence that he can make that shot. My biggest worry is that we have 5 fewer fouls to give inside. Josh (& Ryan, too, actually) gets called for fouls at too high of a rate, he has probably been told not to worry about fouls & just be aggressive on D, but he will have to temper that now. I think Marshall is just a little too raw to be effective on the offensive end yet, and maybe on D too... we just haven't seen enough to be sure. I have faith in the coaches that they will put the team in the best possible position to be successful and I think that we'll see different guys used in situations/match-ups that fit their skills best. All those guys are very different players. Collectively, they may possess Ryan's skills, but as they can't be used all at once, we will really feel the absense of Ryan. It is his intangibles and his excellent shot that are not available on the bench. Hopefully, with such a close-knit team, the guys can keep it all together until Ryan returns. I believe we'll be ok, but our margin of error is much smaller.

[blueduke59]

Gofurman, Hurley suffered a stress fracture and missed quite a few games. Five if I'm not mistaken. Grant took over at the point and did a great job.

Brian Zoubek had foot problems most of his Duke career

[gofurman]

Gofurman, Hurley suffered a stress fracture and missed quite a few games. Five if I'm not mistaken. Grant took over at the point and did a great job.

Brian Zoubek had foot problems most of his Duke career

Blueduke, Thanks. any more that I am missing?

[Jderf]

Is there a reason that they won't say what the injury is?

I'm assuming it's something extremely embarrassing. I heard from a friend inside the program* that Ryan is suffering from a pedicure injury (http://straightsets.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/04/azarenka-withdraws-after-pedicure-injury/).


*not actually true

[Phoenix22]

How many foot injuries have we had since 99?

I recall Brand (fr year 98), Boozer (end of year 2001), Kyrie Irving (basically whole year 2010), Kelly (twice -jnr and Senior year),

Who else and how long? Wasnt Hurley out for awhile wtih a Broken Foot? can someone confirm that?

thanks for any information here.


Shav had foot problems as well. He went so far as to try to invent his own orthotic and use a cut up tennis ball. That is one of the reasons he left early even though he wasnt going to be a high draft pick.

[sagegrouse]

Shav had foot problems as well. He went so far as to try to invent his own orthotic and use a cut up tennis ball. That is one of the reasons he left early even though he wasnt going to be a high draft pick.

That was the story line throughout his freshman season, if I recall correctly (and there is always a first time). But as it turns out, the foot problem, which was pain in the ball of the foot, had nothing to do with the foot. Instead, he had a hip problem and the nerve was telling the body his foot hurt. When the hip got fixed (a mini fracture or a chip off of the hip, perhaps), then his foot got better.

sagegrouse

[h8lightblue]

I think Reggie Love also had a broken foot.

[Wander]

Huh? Built to withstand it? Yes one of those guys, if not both will eventually be able to hold down the fort.

But they're freshmen who have barely played (Yes Murphy redshirted last year - still a frosh), whereas Ryan was a senior whose role was clear. In addition, neither plays like Ryan at all for good reason, meaning that the team's general strategy on O will have to change. And Fast.

We are not built to withstand Kelly's injury. We just hope that the guys can step up fast - but it's mostly a hope.

I think you, and others here, are overestimating Duke's sensitivity to an injury at this position. We have one guard - point, combo, or shooting - on the roster beyond the starters, and that even includes potential walk-ons. Our starting center is our best player, and we only have one center behind him, and he appears to be a bit of a project. On the other hand, we have three reserves capable of playing power forward - one upperclassman, and two younger but talented guys.

Ryan was playing well and has an important role in our strategy - he wouldn't be starting if he didn't! - but if we HAD to lose a starter to injury, this is the least-terrible place for it to happen.

[loran16]

I think you, and others here, are overestimating Duke's sensitivity to an injury at this position. We have one guard - point, combo, or shooting - on the roster beyond the starters, and that even includes potential walk-ons. Our starting center is our best player, and we only have one center behind him, and he appears to be a bit of a project. On the other hand, we have three reserves capable of playing power forward - one upperclassman, and two younger but talented guys.

Ryan was playing well and has an important role in our strategy - he wouldn't be starting if he didn't! - but if we HAD to lose a starter to injury, this is the least-terrible place for it to happen.

Ryan's value is very understated - but you could see what I'm talking about in the 2nd half for a bit last game and the last 3 games of last year. The team relies upon Ryan in the O - he's the guy who sets most screens (Mason is secondary), is the guy who gives the PGs an outlet to pass to if they're in trouble and just essentially makes the offense click, even when he's not shooting. And of course his shooting spreads the floor like crazy.

These are skills that are veteran skills, that take time to master and to work with, which is why Duke couldn't cope without Ryan last year at the end of the season.

Don't get me wrong, Duke will not be crippled by the lack of Ryan - Cook's rise gives us a much better offense even without Ryan. But it will be decently hurt, such that we'll be a lot weaker than we were.

[Newton_14]

Ryan's value is very understated - but you could see what I'm talking about in the 2nd half for a bit last game and the last 3 games of last year. The team relies upon Ryan in the O - he's the guy who sets most screens (Mason is secondary), is the guy who gives the PGs an outlet to pass to if they're in trouble and just essentially makes the offense click, even when he's not shooting. And of course his shooting spreads the floor like crazy.

These are skills that are veteran skills, that take time to master and to work with, which is why Duke couldn't cope without Ryan last year at the end of the season.

Don't get me wrong, Duke will not be crippled by the lack of Ryan - Cook's rise gives us a much better offense even without Ryan. But it will be decently hurt, such that we'll be a lot weaker than we were.

I agree with you here Loran. Last years meltdown was painfully revealing on just how much value Ryan did and does bring. All the things you state and more. He helps during the delay game in the end with ball handling and as an outlet, and with Seth, gives us two guys that teams do not want to foul to stop the clock.

He is very much the main conduit on the floor for the offense. Just like last year it all flows through him. He helps Mason be the Mason we have now, and helps the guards and wings have space to drive. Great pick and pop guy on high ball screens, etc.

We will need him back and healthy down the stretch to make the run this team wants to make.

[heyman25]

The big question is how long is Ryan likely to be out for? Only a few weeks, or the rest of the season?

If he is expected to be back by mid- to late-February, I would not try to change the playing style of the team much. The biggest opportunity is there for Alex, because he has a better 3-pt shot capability than Josh or Amile and is more of a natural stretch-4. He could go from bench-warmer to starter if he can show the coaches that he can hold down the fort at the stretch-4 position sufficiently not to disrupt the team’s playing style while waiting for Ryan to return. I would start Quinn, Seth, Rasheed, Alex and Mason if Ryan will return in a few weeks and see if that lineup will work for us. Amile will get significantly more minutes off the bench at the 4 in this scenario.

If Ryan is out for the season, I would make a more dramatic change and, if Marshall’s foot is 100% now, I would start Marshall at the 5 and Mason at the 4. Mason is experienced enough to make the shift, and played together with Miles enough in past years that he can easily move to the 4. I am a big fan of Josh but the inescapable fact is that he is undersized at the 5 position, and doesn’t give us the offense at the 4 position that Mason does. I would start Quinn, Seth, Rasheed, Mason and Marshall if Ryan will not return in a few weeks. What we would need from Marshall is not overly aggressive play, but just using his size and athleticism to play solid, fundamental basketball in defensive positioning, back screens, rebounding, garbage points and collecting the occasional lob. This would be a big change in our offensive style, but it will be very hard for teams to match up with us on the front line given our size and athleticism at the 4 and the 5.

Obviously, in either situation there will be some big bumps in the road and some losses but given that we have two months of playing time ahead, the goal is to be in the best position come March.

The Duke staff will not let you know either. Remember how they handled Kyrie Irving's injury. Keep the fans and the press uninformed.

[Cameron]

Ryan's value is very understated - but you could see what I'm talking about in the 2nd half for a bit last game and the last 3 games of last year. The team relies upon Ryan in the O - he's the guy who sets most screens (Mason is secondary), is the guy who gives the PGs an outlet to pass to if they're in trouble and just essentially makes the offense click, even when he's not shooting. And of course his shooting spreads the floor like crazy.

These are skills that are veteran skills, that take time to master and to work with, which is why Duke couldn't cope without Ryan last year at the end of the season.

Don't get me wrong, Duke will not be crippled by the lack of Ryan - Cook's rise gives us a much better offense even without Ryan. But it will be decently hurt, such that we'll be a lot weaker than we were.

Nicely put.

Bottom line, if Ryan Kelly doesn't return for whatever reason or re-tweaks the same injury again and is ever done of the year, it really is over. No joke. Ryan Kelly is the lynchpin in this offense. For all the reasons stated previously. He is the best shooting big in the entire country. With Kelly out of the picture, things just got that much more difficult for Mason Plumlee, who is now all alone inside, without his frontcourt partner, the quintessential stretch four, roving the perimeter and keeping defenses honest.

I have no doubt that our staff will work to find a remedy, but this is not good at all.

[cbarry]

I hope I didn't jinx Ryan with my post the 5 days ago about the high likelihood of an injury during the debate on bench development:
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?30109-Why-I-m-sick-of-the-quot-Duke-s-not-deep-quot-criticism&p=614862#post614862

I wrote: ...An injury or illness to one of our starters is not only possible, it is likely, given the rigorous practice schedule and game schedule we play....

I wish they gave an approximate timetable for his return. 2 days, 2 weeks, a year, forever... Something! I guess it's just gamesmanship so the opponents don't know if/when he'll be back.

[Jarhead]

Has there been any more info since the twitter post came out? I can't imagine Duke making such announcement via twitter.

[Wander]

Ryan's value is very understated - but you could see what I'm talking about in the 2nd half for a bit last game and the last 3 games of last year.

You mean the 2nd half when our offense scored 43 points as opposed to the first half when it scored 25 points? And I'd like to remind everyone that our slide last year started when Ryan was still playing.

Anyway, my original point had more to due with our backups than with Ryan himself. Forget about all the starters for a second and look at our bench - what college position are we collectively best at? I'd say the 4, and by a pretty good margin.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I think this could very well be a blessing in disguise. Sure we'll miss him Saturday but I actually don't think we win with him anyways. Obviously this gives Amile and Alex more opportunity for burn and possibly even Marshall. There will be some bumps of course and we'll drop some games as a result but if we get him back by 2/2 then I think we're in good shape and possibly better than we have been.

If this were true, than without the injury K should just sit Ryan down until February. Oh, and to top it off, say that he can't run or otherwise practice because he needs to act like his foot is injured.

Here is a great coaching idea - Divide the first 15 weeks of the season into 5 3 week segments. In each segment a different starter sits and acts like he has a foot injury and does not practice. Then after 15 weeks we will be great.

SoCal

[Edouble]

Blueduke, Thanks. any more that I am missing?

Trajan missed the whole '95-96 season due to a foot injury.

[uh_no]

You mean the 2nd half when our offense scored 43 points as opposed to the first half when it scored 25 points? And I'd like to remind everyone that our slide last year started when Ryan was still playing.

Anyway, my original point had more to due with our backups than with Ryan himself. Forget about all the starters for a second and look at our bench - what college position are we collectively best at? I'd say the 4, and by a pretty good margin.

most of that was higher tempo, though we were more efficient in the second half

the second half, we were only about half as efficient on defense though....

[MCFinARL]

Trajan missed the whole '95-96 season due to a foot injury.

And of course, Marshall Plumlee was already out for the beginning of this season with a foot injury.

[cptnflash]

If this were true, than without the injury K should just sit Ryan down until February. Oh, and to top it off, say that he can't run or otherwise practice because he needs to act like his foot is injured.

Here is a great coaching idea - Divide the first 15 weeks of the season into 5 3 week segments. In each segment a different starter sits and acts like he has a foot injury and does not practice. Then after 15 weeks we will be great.

SoCal

I made the same argument earlier in this thread. It was not well received. Oh well.

Interesting note regarding Ryan's defense in the sidebar to ESPN's article about him being out indefinitely. According to ESPN Stats & Info, opposing players are shooting 22% against Ryan, and he ranks third in the country in points allowed per possession defended at 0.53. Obviously defense at Duke is a team concept, so those numbers aren't 100% attributable to Ryan alone, but still, that's pretty remarkable. And impossible to replace.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8830027/ryan-kelly-duke-blue-devils-indefinitely-right-foot-injury

[gofurman]

you want to be really depressed , I had no idea Ryan's efficiency!@

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/150/duke-blue-devils

MCBB - Duke will miss Kelly
Ryan is out indefinitely with a right foot injury. ... According to statsheet.com, Kelly had the highest plus-minus in the ACC (+190) this season * Kelly had an offensive rating of 126.8, the highest on Duke and 7th in the ACC (min. 10 games) * Kelly is averaging 1.24 points scored per post-up play, the highest average in the ACC (min. 15 plays) * As an on-ball defender, Kelly is allowing just 0.53 points per play on 22.2% field goal shooting, both which rank 2nd in the ACC (min. 70 plays)

[gumbomoop]

Gosh this type of stuff seems to bite us every year.


Stinking foot injuries have crushed us the last 3 years!!!! Geez


How many foot injuries have we had since 99?


And of course, Marshall Plumlee was already out for the beginning of this season with a foot injury.

IIRC, Kenny Dennard had a pretty plausible explanation for his cancer and Coach Bill Foster's bypass surgery, and, by logical extension, all these foot injuries. Mused K-Dog: "Maybe Duke is the disease."

[licc85]

IIRC, Kenny Dennard had a pretty plausible explanation for his cancer and Coach Bill Foster's bypass surgery, and, by logical extension, all these foot injuries. Mused K-Dog: "Maybe Duke is the disease."

Jabari got in on it early. We should have known he was a Dukie as soon as he injured his foot.

[gumbomoop]

Jabari got in on it early. We should have known he was a Dukie as soon as he injured his foot.

Yes, there's definitely something to this. It cannot be just a coincidence, nor can it have escaped the attention of a young man as bright and inquisitive as Jabari, that K-dog, Krzyzewski, and kismet all begin with the same letter, which letter is eerily right next to J, alphabetically speaking.

[Olympic Fan]

You mean the 2nd half when our offense scored 43 points as opposed to the first half when it scored 25 points? And I'd like to remind everyone that our slide last year started when Ryan was still playing.


Really? That Duke "slide" included seven straight ACC wins in February, starting with a victory at UNC and including wins at Florida State, Wake Forest and Boston College --plus home wins over Maryland, N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Duke did close the regular season with a homecour loss to North Carolina. I guess you can say that Duke lost three of its last four and te first of those occurred with kelly in the lineup. But I don't consider a loss to a top five team as "a slide". The only slide -- back-to-back losses to FSU in Atlanta and Lehigh in Greensboro did occur without Kelly.

And just to clarify -- Hurley did suffer a stress fracture in 1992 -- but it happened in the first half of the game at UNC, so I doublt it had anything to do with the court at Cameron or K's practice style. I guess you could argue that the Nike footwear was at fault, but an awful lot of college teams wear Nike. If it's the shoes, why should Duke be the team to get so many foot injuries?

And as for Shav's problems -- it's right that he first thought the problem was in his foot and only later learned that he had a hip problem. But his problems started before his senior season in high school -- before he even committed to Duke.

I get Brand in 1998 ... Boozer in preseason 1999-2000 ... Boozer late in the 2001 season ... Zoubek throughout his career ... Kelly last year ... Marshall Plumlee preseason. I'm not sure Kelly's current problems count as a new injury or a continuation of wat happened last year. Just counting broken bones in the foot -- You also have Kyrie's toe problem, but that was an extremely unique injury.

[tbyers11]

Trajan missed the whole '95-96 season due to a foot injury.

We've had a lot of foot injuries but Trajan wasn't one of them. He missed that season due to a knee injury.

[Starter]

The sneakers are fine, everyone in the universe wears them. I think Nike has a 65 percent market share in basketball sneakers or something crazy like that. I've long wondered about the court, am I remembering right that it's spring loaded as of the late-90's renovation? But most likely it's just one of those things, and we notice more because it's Duke guys. In terms of an injury bugaboo, it could be far worse. I don't recall a lot of Duke guys suffering torn ACL's or blown-out Achilles' tendons.

As I said earlier, I fractured my heel in September doing a mud run. I'd love to say it was some noble injury but it was sheer stupidity; I jumped off a 10-12 foot wall I was supposed to climb down. It was a non-displaced hairline fracture, and I wore a walking boot for a month, then had physical therapy for 2 weeks. I would assume any treatment Duke does for this sort of thing will be more advanced; I recall Elton being hooked up the majority of the day to a machine providing frequent electric charges directly to the bone to stimulate healing. Of course, if this is something worse, a tendon or something, I have no idea how long Kelly will be out. But if it's a bone injury, I would think we could conceivably target the middle of February based on my experience. I'm not a D1 basketball player, but I was back to running several miles as soon as PT ended and I was cleared by the doctor.

Count me along with the posters who think it might not be such a terrible thing if this forces other guys to step up in Kelly's absence. Jefferson in particular seems like he could really end up being a contributor, and we all know Murphy has plenty of talent he needs to reconcile. If these guys are thrown in the fire and thrive, maybe the staff determines they have a comfort level with them and Duke gets another rotation player or two for the long haul. They might lose a couple more games they might have won, but the big picture is what matters here. Please note I'm not trying to spin Kelly's injury as a positive -- far from it, he's been Duke's best player of late -- but perhaps like with Boozer's injury, some positive byproducts can come out of it.

[dyedwab]

As much as I love Duke Basketball, the way the program communicates about injuries drives me a bit crazy. They are as opaque as possible.

Thus, it is unclear to me, based on the program's statements, what the extent of Ryan's injury is, or what a realistic assessment of his return is.

Though, actually, I appreciate that he is out "indefinitely". That is better than the usual, "day-to-day" that we hear about before players lose extensive time.

Point being, I don't expect to see Ryan for a long time (Lance coming back quickly from his back injury was the exception that proves the rule), and the key to our success going forward will be 1) adjusting to Ryan's absence and the things the he does and 2) having Josh/Amile/Alex collectively step up.

[markbdevil]

So I guess a boot should be issued to each player as soon as they arrive at Duke. 'Welcome to Duke, here is your iPad with all scouting reports and practice notes, here is your locker, your uniform, and a right and/or left boot to wear when you indefinitely injure your foot'. It's got to be the sorry Nike shoes!

[cbarry]

So I guess a boot should be issued to each player as soon as they arrive at Duke. 'Welcome to Duke, here is your iPad with all scouting reports and practice notes, here is your locker, your uniform, and a right and/or left boot to wear when you indefinitely injure your foot'. It's got to be the sorry Nike shoes!
Sounds like a good (and realistic) plan, based on the astounding number of foot injuries. It would be interesting to see somebody document the number of foot and ankle injuries at Duke compared to other schools. I would guess Duke is a national leader for the past umpteen years!!

[bludev]

I think this could very well be a blessing in disguise. Sure we'll miss him Saturday but I actually don't think we win with him anyways. Obviously this gives Amile and Alex more opportunity for burn and possibly even Marshall. There will be some bumps of course and we'll drop some games as a result but if we get him back by 2/2 then I think we're in good shape and possibly better than we have been.

First, let me say that this is really sad for Ryan ... he was really starting to hit stride, I was at the Wake game on Sat and you could tell his confidence was really rising. Here's hoping he is able to come back soon and for his sake, able to keep the level of play he's been showing recently.

I agree with the premise that there is some good that can come from Ryan K's injury. This is an opportunity for A. Jefferson and A. Murphy to get some much needed game experience and therefor create some depth that was not there before (which will be nice and needed going into March (and April)).

Looking at the big picture, its not the end of the season to drop a game (or two) now, as it would be in March. I say that hoping we don't lose a game this year ... however, I don't think that's realistic especially while playing lesser proven players. But I really think Duke will be better in the end ... not because Ryan is hurt, but because Amile and Alex will be better.

On another note (and maybe another thread), at least the fact the Amile will get more minutes will make one of the local (Raleigh) morning sports DJs happy ... he's been blabbing about how Amile made a mistake by going to Duke and rather should have committed to NCSU.

[75Crazie]

I agree with the premise that there is some good that can come from Ryan K's injury. This is an opportunity for A. Jefferson and A. Murphy to get some much needed game experience and therefor create some depth that was not there before (which will be nice and needed going into March (and April)).
I know this probably flogs a dead horse as far as this board is concerned, but I'll say it anyway ... shouldn't one reason for trying to develop depth while you have a full complement of healthy players be that you are more prepared to handle the loss of a key player due to injury later on? The opportunity that you mention was there from the start of the year.

[Wander]

Really? That Duke "slide" included seven straight ACC wins in February, starting with a victory at UNC and including wins at Florida State, Wake Forest and Boston College --plus home wins over Maryland, N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Duke did close the regular season with a homecour loss to North Carolina. I guess you can say that Duke lost three of its last four and te first of those occurred with kelly in the lineup. But I don't consider a loss to a top five team as "a slide". The only slide -- back-to-back losses to FSU in Atlanta and Lehigh in Greensboro did occur without Kelly.


The loss to FSU in Atlanta went down to the last possession. The halftime score of the UNC game was 48 to 24. Come on. Getting annihilated at home by a top 5 team is worse than a close loss on a neutral court to a top 15 team, or at the very least comparable. We started playing much worse right after the fantastic road win at FSU in late February - I would consider the beginning of our slide to be the home win against Virginia Tech.

[jipops]

On another note (and maybe another thread), at least the fact the Amile will get more minutes will make one of the local (Raleigh) morning sports DJs happy ... he's been blabbing about how Amile made a mistake by going to Duke and rather should have committed to NCSU.

Yea, I've heard that bum too. Seems to forget that Amile is a freshman with a lot to work on. He'll be shutting up about that garbage next season.

[Lar77]

Really? That Duke "slide" included seven straight ACC wins in February, starting with a victory at UNC and including wins at Florida State, Wake Forest and Boston College --plus home wins over Maryland, N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Duke did close the regular season with a homecour loss to North Carolina. I guess you can say that Duke lost three of its last four and te first of those occurred with kelly in the lineup. But I don't consider a loss to a top five team as "a slide". The only slide -- back-to-back losses to FSU in Atlanta and Lehigh in Greensboro did occur without Kelly.

And just to clarify -- Hurley did suffer a stress fracture in 1992 -- but it happened in the first half of the game at UNC, so I doublt it had anything to do with the court at Cameron or K's practice style. I guess you could argue that the Nike footwear was at fault, but an awful lot of college teams wear Nike. If it's the shoes, why should Duke be the team to get so many foot injuries?

And as for Shav's problems -- it's right that he first thought the problem was in his foot and only later learned that he had a hip problem. But his problems started before his senior season in high school -- before he even committed to Duke.

I get Brand in 1998 ... Boozer in preseason 1999-2000 ... Boozer late in the 2001 season ... Zoubek throughout his career ... Kelly last year ... Marshall Plumlee preseason. I'm not sure Kelly's current problems count as a new injury or a continuation of wat happened last year. Just counting broken bones in the foot -- You also have Kyrie's toe problem, but that was an extremely unique injury.

Add in Daniel Ewing's foot problems as well (Jr year?)

[bludev]

I know this probably flogs a dead horse as far as this board is concerned, but I'll say it anyway ... shouldn't one reason for trying to develop depth while you have a full complement of healthy players be that you are more prepared to handle the loss of a key player due to injury later on? The opportunity that you mention was there from the start of the year.

You'll have to ask K (4 NCAA crowns and counting) and staff about that (developing the bench before injuries) ... the coaches are there every day, at practice, on the bench during the game, in the locker room, and are way more acquainted with the players than most of us here. We are where we are, and the opportunity is now whether its the most convenient time or not, and I think its not all bad.

[MCFinARL]

The sneakers are fine, everyone in the universe wears them. I think Nike has a 65 percent market share in basketball sneakers or something crazy like that. I've long wondered about the court, am I remembering right that it's spring loaded as of the late-90's renovation? But most likely it's just one of those things, and we notice more because it's Duke guys. In terms of an injury bugaboo, it could be far worse. I don't recall a lot of Duke guys suffering torn ACL's or blown-out Achilles' tendons.

Yes--that is the most likely explanation, as it's a well-documented phenomenon that we [humans, not just Duke fans] look for patterns and reasons rather than accepting coincidence and randomness. One other possibility, though (succumbing to the need to find a pattern....)--most of these foot problems (Kyrie being an obvious exception, though that was, truly, a freak injury) seem to affect big men. Could the particular challenges of maneuvering more weight, balanced a different way, around the court make foot injuries more likely for taller players?

[NSDukeFan]

Yes--that is the most likely explanation, as it's a well-documented phenomenon that we [humans, not just Duke fans] look for patterns and reasons rather than accepting coincidence and randomness. One other possibility, though (succumbing to the need to find a pattern....)--most of these foot problems (Kyrie being an obvious exception, though that was, truly, a freak injury) seem to affect big men. Could the particular challenges of maneuvering more weight, balanced a different way, around the court make foot injuries more likely for taller players?

You may want to ask Yao Ming about that one.

[CDu]

The loss to FSU in Atlanta went down to the last possession. The halftime score of the UNC game was 48 to 24. Come on. Getting annihilated at home by a top 5 team is worse than a close loss on a neutral court to a top 15 team, or at the very least comparable. We started playing much worse right after the fantastic road win at FSU in late February - I would consider the beginning of our slide to be the home win against Virginia Tech.

Agreed. We were still winning games (except the UNC debacle), but the level of play was waning. We barely beat Va Tech (in OT) at home with Kelly. Without Kelly, we also barely beat Va Tech on a neutral site. Earlier in the season, we lost to FSU at home by 3. In the ACC tournament, we lost to FSU by 3 without Kelly.

Losing Kelly is a big loss to this team. And losing him last year certainly hurt. But it's not like we were some juggernaut that fell apart when Kelly went out. We were a team that had hit a bit of a fade, and then lost a very good player on top of that fade. Simply looking at W/L results masks that.

[Kedsy]

I know this probably flogs a dead horse as far as this board is concerned, but I'll say it anyway ... shouldn't one reason for trying to develop depth while you have a full complement of healthy players be that you are more prepared to handle the loss of a key player due to injury later on? The opportunity that you mention was there from the start of the year.

The problem with your analysis is it assumes the depth is not "developed" if the bench players don't play a lot in the games. I would argue this is completely false. The depth is developed every day in practice. It is employed when needed. And now it's needed.

In early 2010-11, while Kyrie was active, Tyler Thornton hardly played (only 5 mpg, and that included several games against non-conference cupcakes). Once Kyrie got hurt, Tyler was needed, became a regular part of the rotation (including three starts and four games of 20+ minutes), and performed well. It's just one of many examples of a player who didn't see a lot of game minutes but was ready when called upon.

[ncexnyc]

I guess I must be one of those people who don't get how valuable Ryan is to the team. One of you feels he's on the level of Lebron, Wade, or Bosh and another thinks he's on the same level as Durant.

I'm a bit slow so help me out here.
1. We still have NPOY candidate Mason Plumlee.
2. We have a PG in Quinn Cook who has his own thread discussing how he's one of the top ten PG's in the country.
3. We have Rasheed Suliaman who is currently being viewed as ACC ROY and a couple of board members have even used the name Jordan when discussing his play.
4. We have another freshman, Amile Jefferson who has been compared to Antwan Jamison and does seem to have some nice offensive moves around the basket.
5. We have a redshirt freshman named Marshall Plumlee,who the staff and Coach K called the sixth best player on the team prior to his foot injury.
6. We have Curry The Lesser still on the team, who even while playing with a leg injury still manages to fill up the bucket quite nicely.
7. Kyle 2.0, Alex Murphy is still around.
8. The Bruise Brothers, Tyler and Josh are still with us, giving us a blue collar effort every game.
We still have all of this, but some of you feel the season is over. Now if you really believe this please feel free to email me and I'd be more than happy to take your tickets off your hands. I'd hate for you to have to sit through such a disappointing season.

[CDu]

The problem with your analysis is it assumes the depth is not "developed" if the bench players don't play a lot in the games. I would argue this is completely false. The depth is developed every day in practice. It is employed when needed. And now it's needed.

In early 2010-11, while Kyrie was active, Tyler Thornton hardly played (only 5 mpg, and that included several games against non-conference cupcakes). Once Kyrie got hurt, Tyler was needed, became a regular part of the rotation (including three starts and four games of 20+ minutes), and performed well. It's just one of many examples of a player who didn't see a lot of game minutes but was ready when called upon.

Yup. For some reason, people have decided that you can't develop unless you play in the games. While there is certainly some gain from game experience, I'd wager that the vast majority of development comes outside of game play. As such, Marshall, Murphy, and Jefferson are developing. We just aren't getting to see the fruits of that development.

Now, whether or not that development is such that they are ready to contribute when called upon is another animal altogether. Because we don't see them play, we don't have any idea if they're really ready to contribute significant productive minutes.

[azzefkram]

The problem with your analysis is it assumes the depth is not "developed" if the bench players don't play a lot in the games. I would argue this is completely false. The depth is developed every day in practice. It is employed when needed. And now it's needed.

I'd say completely false is a bit much. Game time is a different animal than practice time. Many of us have heard the stories about how good Miles was in practice but it didn't seem to translate during the games, at least early on. By the end of his senior year, I thought he was a good player. There is also quite a bit of room between a lot and not playing at all. I consider 1 min at garbage time basically a CD-DNP. I know Coach K doesn't worry about it but it seems reasonable to assume a season of 30-35+mins a game would cause some fatigue toward year end, especially on the bigs as play tends to be more physical.

[pamtar]

After some overnight digestion (and reading this surprisingly civil thread) I'll say that I'm on the glass half full, lemons to lemonade team with this one. I really like the idea of Alex, Jig, and Marshall getting some burn while Kelly is out. It can only be a long-term positive. And while I'm not too keen on changing the style of play to fit said lineup, I know K will make the right call there. Hopefully he trusts Alex enough at this point to give him starter minutes and keep things running as smooth and as familiar as possible.

My only concern with Kelly out is other teams ability to penetrate our defense. Im not too worried about lay-ups, but the drive and kick (Scott Wood) and the Mason in foul trouble risk could kill us. On switches RK has shown a great deal of improvement denying guards. His help D has never been an issue. Unless Sheed guards Leslie (which I think he is totally capable of), Jiggy and Alex are going to have a tough time with Brown and Purvis coming off screens. I noticed this in the second half vs Clemson. While it can sometimes be hard to see from the back of Sec17, it seemed much easier for Clemson to work the high screen and get to the basket with Kelly out. Good thing they totally suck at shooting or they could have made it somewhat respectable. Aside, I estimate Clemson shot around 27% in pre-game warm-ups, lay-up line included.

Finally, for the love of god, enough with the indefinitely nonsense. Just tell us whats wrong with the guy. We don't even need a timeframe for his return (there are enough good doctors on the boards to fill in those blanks), just a diagnosis. Alas, K is the coach and I am a mere fan. Still, I can think of no other reason for the secrecy other than making it harder for other teams to game plan. Other ideas?

[azzefkram]

I guess I must be one of those people who don't get how valuable Ryan is to the team. One of you feels he's on the level of Lebron, Wade, or Bosh and another thinks he's on the same level as Durant.

I'm a bit slow so help me out here.
1. We still have NPOY candidate Mason Plumlee.
2. We have a PG in Quinn Cook who has his own thread discussing how he's one of the top ten PG's in the country.
3. We have Rasheed Suliaman who is currently being viewed as ACC ROY and a couple of board members have even used the name Jordan when discussing his play.
4. We have another freshman, Amile Jefferson who has been compared to Antwan Jamison and does seem to have some nice offensive moves around the basket.
5. We have a redshirt freshman named Marshall Plumlee,who the staff and Coach K called the sixth best player on the team prior to his foot injury.
6. We have Curry The Lesser still on the team, who even while playing with a leg injury still manages to fill up the bucket quite nicely.
7. Kyle 2.0, Alex Murphy is still around.
8. The Bruise Brothers, Tyler and Josh are still with us, giving us a blue collar effort every game.
We still have all of this, but some of you feel the season is over. Now if you really believe this please feel free to email me and I'd be more than happy to take your tickets off your hands. I'd hate for you to have to sit through such a disappointing season.

He was far more critical last year since he was our best facilitator. With Quinn having taken over that role, I feel we are in better shape than last year. He is still a pretty big loss, however.

[moonpie23]

the key to playing scott wood is the same as playing a quick release shooter like ray ray......make him as uncomfortable as you possibly can as QUICKLY as you possibly can....

i was watching last night and man, he got off some 3's so quickly that he barely had the ball in his hands for any amount of time......


who's gonna be in scott wood's face?

[Lar77]

the key to playing scott wood is the same as playing a quick release shooter like ray ray......make him as uncomfortable as you possibly can as QUICKLY as you possibly can....

i was watching last night and man, he got off some 3's so quickly that he barely had the ball in his hands for any amount of time......


who's gonna be in scott wood's face?

I would put Rasheed on him with Tyler subbing in. State needs Wood to score to open up for CJ (who I never see scoring outside of 15) Don't have enough feel for Purvis' game yet.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I guess I must be one of those people who don't get how valuable Ryan is to the team. One of you feels he's on the level of Lebron, Wade, or Bosh and another thinks he's on the same level as Durant.

I'm a bit slow so help me out here.
1. We still have NPOY candidate Mason Plumlee.
2. We have a PG in Quinn Cook who has his own thread discussing how he's one of the top ten PG's in the country.
3. We have Rasheed Suliaman who is currently being viewed as ACC ROY and a couple of board members have even used the name Jordan when discussing his play.
4. We have another freshman, Amile Jefferson who has been compared to Antwan Jamison and does seem to have some nice offensive moves around the basket.
5. We have a redshirt freshman named Marshall Plumlee,who the staff and Coach K called the sixth best player on the team prior to his foot injury.
6. We have Curry The Lesser still on the team, who even while playing with a leg injury still manages to fill up the bucket quite nicely.
7. Kyle 2.0, Alex Murphy is still around.
8. The Bruise Brothers, Tyler and Josh are still with us, giving us a blue collar effort every game.
We still have all of this, but some of you feel the season is over. Now if you really believe this please feel free to email me and I'd be more than happy to take your tickets off your hands. I'd hate for you to have to sit through such a disappointing season.

You should read my posts in the Clemson thread - I feel we would get along great.

Haven't you heard? Without Ryan Kelly (who's game I really enjoy, though he strikes me as more Battier than Durant... willing to do the dirty work, but can step up and make huge plays when needed) we stand no chance against NC State and Coach K will be using experimental line ups to get us ready for next season, because we're toast.

[UrinalCake]

Yup. For some reason, people have decided that you can't develop unless you play in the games. .

I also thnk it's interesting that over on IC their fans are constantly criticizing Roy for OVERPLAYING his bench rather than giving the most minutes to his best players. And they've had more than their share of injuries over the past few years; at least as many as us and probably more.

[Kedsy]

who's gonna be in scott wood's face?

Well, in part that depends on whether Quinn can guard Brown, who is four or five inches taller than Quinn and probably just as quick. If Quinn has problems with Brown, then we'd probably have to shift him over to Purvis, put Rasheed on Brown and leave Seth on Wood. When they play a perimeter of Brown, Wood, and Warren, then Rasheed would have to guard Warren, Quinn would have to try to deal with Brown, and again Seth would be on Wood. If they play Purvis, Wood, and Warren, then it's Quinn on Purvis, Rasheed on Warren, and (once again) Seth on Wood. Tyler might alter the equation, depending on who he's subbing in for.

So, based on that analysis, I'm guessing it will be Seth most of the time.


I guess I must be one of those people who don't get how valuable Ryan is to the team. One of you feels he's on the level of Lebron, Wade, or Bosh and another thinks he's on the same level as Durant.

No, nobody feels that or thinks that. Those posts were attempts at debunking a poster who said that if taking one player off a team causes such problems then the team wasn't that good to begin with. You should read a little more carefully before you make snide comments.


We still have all of this, but some of you feel the season is over.

I don't think there are many people out there who think the season is over, either. I think there are people who think Duke is a significantly less powerful team if Ryan isn't playing, and I think those people are correct. Does that mean we can't win without Ryan? Of course not, but it would be a lot harder. Personally, assuming he comes back at full strength by mid-February or so, I don't think it alters our long-term outlook all that much.


I know Coach K doesn't worry about it but it seems reasonable to assume a season of 30-35+mins a game would cause some fatigue toward year end, especially on the bigs as play tends to be more physical.

I don't think that seems reasonable at all, but there's no real point in continuing this tired old debate, is there?

[ncexnyc]

Well, in part that depends on whether Quinn can guard Brown, who is four or five inches taller than Quinn and probably just as quick. If Quinn has problems with Brown, then we'd probably have to shift him over to Purvis, put Rasheed on Brown and leave Seth on Wood. When they play a perimeter of Brown, Wood, and Warren, then Rasheed would have to guard Warren, Quinn would have to try to deal with Brown, and again Seth would be on Wood. If they play Purvis, Wood, and Warren, then it's Quinn on Purvis, Rasheed on Warren, and (once again) Seth on Wood. Tyler might alter the equation, depending on who he's subbing in for.

So, based on that analysis, I'm guessing it will be Seth most of the time.



No, nobody feels that or thinks that. Those posts were attempts at debunking a poster who said that if taking one player off a team causes such problems then the team wasn't that good to begin with. You should read a little more carefully before you make snide comments.



I don't think there are many people out there who think the season is over, either. I think there are people who think Duke is a significantly less powerful team if Ryan isn't playing, and I think those people are correct. Does that mean we can't win without Ryan? Of course not, but it would be a lot harder. Personally, assuming he comes back at full strength by mid-February or so, I don't think it alters our long-term outlook all that much.



I don't think that seems reasonable at all, but there's no real point in continuing this tired old debate, is there?

I guess you should learn to follow your own advice. Ryan's an outstanding player who was doing a great job on both ends of the floor, however if the team's fate rests solely on his shoulders then in fact we weren't as good a team as some of you believed we were. Personally I believe the talent is there to overcome this injury, whether it's short or long term. Again if you or anyone else wants to bail, then please contact me with your unwanted tickets.

[Kedsy]

I guess you should learn to follow your own advice. Ryan's an outstanding player who was doing a great job on both ends of the floor, however if the team's fate rests solely on his shoulders then in fact we weren't as good a team as some of you believed we were. Personally I believe the talent is there to overcome this injury, whether it's short or long term. Again if you or anyone else wants to bail, then please contact me with your unwanted tickets.

Who said the team's fate rested solely on Ryan's shoulders? Who said anybody wants to "bail"? Why do you feel the need to put words in other people's mouths?

The team is much less powerful without Ryan, much as it would be without Mason or without Quinn or without Seth or without Rasheed. You can't take away one of any team's top players and expect them to perform as well without him as you would expect with him. Do you disagree with that? Then why are you arguing?

[tommy]

I was doing a little research into past Duke foot injuries, and came across this from an old Chronicle piece at the time Boozer broke his foot:

"According to the official statement, Boozer fractured the third metatarsal in his right foot, marking the third time in the past four seasons that a Duke center has suffered a broken metatarsal. Three years ago, then-freshman Elton Brand shattered the fifth metatarsal in his left foot, forcing him to the sidelines for eight weeks. Last season, Boozer sustained the exact same injury while playing in a pickup game; he missed about eight weeks of practice but returned for the first game of the season.
Unlike injuries to the first or fifth metatarsals, which are more frequent and almost always require a long healing period, mild fractures of the third metatarsal have a good chance for a speedy recovery. Had Boozer suffered a clean break like Brand did early in the 1997-98 campaign, his season would have undoubtedly ended in Cameron Tuesday night. Nonetheless, 10 days are typically needed for X-rays to clearly identify hairline fractures to metatarsals, which means that no new information is expected for at least another week . . ."

I didn't realize that, assuming there's a break at all, it really does (or may) matter which of the metatarsals it is in terms of the recovery time. Third metatarsal? Fifth? First? Hairline vs. clean break? Does Ryan have a break at all? We just don't have much information here. Any medical folks who wish to weigh in, please feel free.

[oldnavy]

I am really bummed for Ryan and of course for myself and all Duke fans. I hope he bounces back full speed not only for what he means to the team, but for his own future. I really thought he was playing his way up the draft board in the NBA.

Having said that, the discussion about if this is a good thing for the team in the long run or not is impossible to predict. The fact is that he is hurt and is out. Players will be given opportunities to do things they otherwise would not have been given. We can't assume one way or the other on how this will impact the team in the future. No one would have suggested taking Ryan out for the good of the team before his injury, so if for no other reason than that this is not what we wanted.

Only time will tell if there is a silver lining to this cloud. I tend to think that there will be for a couple of reasons. First and most importantly, there is no other coach in the world I would prefer to make the adjustments and put the players in the most opportune positions to excel than Coach K. He has shown overtime that he can work magic in these type of situations. Second, it is early yet. Ryan is not going to have to rush back. If he take 3-4 weeks then fine. He is experienced enough I believe to fit right back in where he left off. Sure he may have some rust, and be out of playing shape, but by then we should have a good idea of who is capable to take his minutes so he can work back into the rotation. Also, we have quality guys behind him. None as good as Ryan, but still quality guys. Amile is a talent who could blossom under these circumstances. Josh is solid, and if he can hit that 15 footer like he has done in the not so distant past, he will not be a liability on the offensive end. Murphy??? I still am not sure. He seems to lack confidence, so who knows. Maybe a big game and he explodes? I just can't say right now. Marshall, he can give us some post presence and 5 extra fouls if needed. And of course, the way Cook has been coming on, it is a perfect opportunity for him to blow it up. We saw a little of that in the second half against Clemson.

All that said, I would give my right foot in place of Ryan's, but I am in no way ready to say it's over.... not even close. We may drop a couple of games while things work themselves out under Coach K's direction, but it is early, so we can afford a loss or two.

Get well soon Ryan!

[gumbomoop]

Well, in part that [Who guards Wood?] depends on whether Quinn can guard Brown, who is four or five inches taller than Quinn and probably just as quick. If Quinn has problems with Brown, then we'd probably have to shift him over to Purvis, put Rasheed on Brown and leave Seth on Wood. [1] When they play a perimeter of Brown, Wood, and Warren, then Rasheed would have to guard Warren, Quinn would have to try to deal with Brown, and again Seth would be on Wood. [2] If they play Purvis, Wood, and Warren, then it's Quinn on Purvis, Rasheed on Warren, and (once again) Seth on Wood. Tyler might alter the equation, depending on who he's subbing in for.

So, based on that analysis, [3] I'm guessing it will be Seth most of the time.

My guesses are different from yours. Probably too many scenarios, and I may have misinterpreted, as we need an enormous virtual chalkboard to plot the specifics of all these matchups.

I think our disagreement stems almost entirely from a disagreement about how much time Warren spends as a sub for a perimeter guy. IMO, given Howell's propensity to foul, Warren probably sees his 20-25 minutes on Sat mostly as big-relief.

In turn, my [different from your] assumption is that neither of the State-perimeter scenarios in the tag quote will actually occur on Sat. Your [1] surely means State would be playing an ultra-big lineup. I don't see it, but maybe this will be one of Gottfried's cat and mouse moves, causing K to play bigger guys for D, or maybe stay small and challenge all those State bigs to chase Duke shooters on the perimeter. I don't see scenario [2] as very likely either. When Brown's out for a couple of minutes either half, I assume Tyler Lewis is the PG.

In sum, my guess is that [3] Seth won't guard Wood much at all. I assume he'll be on Purvis most of the time, at least, that he and Purvis are on the floor at the same time, which I think will be most [maybe 25 minutes] of the game. I'm guessing Rasheed and Wood will also be on the floor [together] a lot, and so Rasheed guards Wood, usually.

To be as clear as possible - given there are many short-minute scenarios - I think Warren mostly subs for Leslie/Howell, but I concede that in [what I assume will be] his few minutes subbing on the perimeter, if he's not subbing for Wood, well, that's a tall perimeter to deal with.

I don't mean Seth will never guard Wood. I just think mostly it's Seth on Purvis, Rasheed on Wood, Tyler on 4 different guys. But, you know, what with all the screening up high, there will enough D-switching on most possessions to make it difficult even to say one player is guarding another. Seth, in my scenario, might start a State-possession guarding Purvis, but wind up switching to deny Wood an open look.

Foul trouble or cat and mouse coaching moves - the latter of which I'd actually love to see - would invalidate my guesses. Actually, other things would invalidate my guesses. Such as reality.

[Kedsy]

In sum, my guess is that [3] Seth won't guard Wood much at all. I assume he'll be on Purvis most of the time, at least, that he and Purvis are on the floor at the same time, which I think will be most [maybe 25 minutes] of the game. I'm guessing Rasheed and Wood will also be on the floor [together] a lot, and so Rasheed guards Wood, usually.

You may be right, we won't know until we know.

The two comments I have about your analysis are (a) you're putting our most athletic perimeter defender (Rasheed) on their least athletic perimeter guy (Wood), and I'm not sure that's the best use of resources; and (b) you are assuming Quinn can handle Brown, which I think is far from a lock. Brown has 4 or 5 inches and 10 or 15 pounds on Quinn, and from my admittedly limited observations of him has similar quickness. Coach K often likes to lock down the opposing PG, and I'm not sure Quinn has it in him. If he does, then great, and then Rasheed on Wood makes sense. If he doesn't, then Rasheed would need to move over to Brown, and to me at least Seth makes a lot more sense on Wood than Quinn does, especially if Wood's guarding Seth which I think is likely.

[gumbomoop]

The two comments I have about your analysis are (a) you're putting our most athletic perimeter defender (Rasheed) on their least athletic perimeter guy (Wood), and I'm not sure that's the best use of resources; and (b) you are assuming Quinn can handle Brown, which I think is far from a lock. Brown has 4 or 5 inches and 10 or 15 pounds on Quinn, and from my admittedly limited observations of him has similar quickness. Coach K often likes to lock down the opposing PG, and I'm not sure Quinn has it in him. If he does, then great, and then Rasheed on Wood makes sense. If he doesn't, then Rasheed would need to move over to Brown, and to me at least Seth makes a lot more sense on Wood than Quinn does, especially if Wood's guarding Seth which I think is likely.

Too many State threads to keep up. Ryan should have thought about this before he messed up his foot.

I do see that on at least one other thread, you've made this point about Quinn and Brown. It's a good one; and if you're right about this problem, then yes, Seth more than Quinn makes sense on Wood.

And you raise a good point about Rasheed's athleticism as being sort of wasted on the unathletic Wood. My thinking is that Wood's 3-bombs are so dangerous, and Rasheed has a better chance than Seth of staying close to Wood, hand in face, etc. And I'll refer to my previous point about multiple switches making it almost irrelevant who begins any State-possession guarding whom on the perimeter. On the same possession, Seth, Rasheed, Quinn, Tyler, Amile, and Alex might, serially, guard Wood. [Possibly the numbers don't work perfectly in that example......]

[gofurman]

I was doing a little research into past Duke foot injuries, and came across this from an old Chronicle piece at the time Boozer broke his foot:

"According to the official statement, Boozer fractured the third metatarsal in his right foot, marking the third time in the past four seasons that a Duke center has suffered a broken metatarsal. Three years ago, then-freshman Elton Brand shattered the fifth metatarsal in his left foot, forcing him to the sidelines for eight weeks. Last season, Boozer sustained the exact same injury while playing in a pickup game; he missed about eight weeks of practice but returned for the first game of the season.
Unlike injuries to the first or fifth metatarsals, which are more frequent and almost always require a long healing period, mild fractures of the third metatarsal have a good chance for a speedy recovery. Had Boozer suffered a clean break like Brand did early in the 1997-98 campaign, his season would have undoubtedly ended in Cameron Tuesday night. Nonetheless, 10 days are typically needed for X-rays to clearly identify hairline fractures to metatarsals, which means that no new information is expected for at least another week . . ."

I didn't realize that, assuming there's a break at all, it really does (or may) matter which of the metatarsals it is in terms of the recovery time. Third metatarsal? Fifth? First? Hairline vs. clean break? Does Ryan have a break at all? We just don't have much information here. Any medical folks who wish to weigh in, please feel free.

Note the difference in the amount of information given then on the fracture - which metatarsal etc. Why do they not give this information out anymore HIPPA?? gamesmanship? Anyone know ? It appears there was a lot more info given back with Boozer, Brand, etc

[Kedsy]

And you raise a good point about Rasheed's athleticism as being sort of wasted on the unathletic Wood. My thinking is that Wood's 3-bombs are so dangerous, and Rasheed has a better chance than Seth of staying close to Wood, hand in face, etc. And I'll refer to my previous point about multiple switches making it almost irrelevant who begins any State-possession guarding whom on the perimeter. On the same possession, Seth, Rasheed, Quinn, Tyler, Amile, and Alex might, serially, guard Wood. [Possibly the numbers don't work perfectly in that example......]

Yeah, I haven't watched enough State to know if they set multiple screens per possession for Wood. If they do, your point about switches makes a great deal of sense. I do think Seth should be able to stay close to Wood and put a hand in his face (Battier-style). What Seth can't do that Rasheed possibly could is provide a threat to block Wood's shot. Some shooters have a problem shooting if a defender is close or shoves his hand near the shooter's face or shooting hand; others can shoot with a hand in their face if they're confident that the defender's not long enough to stop the shot (without fouling). If Wood is of the latter variety then we either have to use Rasheed on him or play great denial defense so that he doesn't get the ball in shooting position. Either way, it will be a challenge.

[Starter]

Yup. For some reason, people have decided that you can't develop unless you play in the games. While there is certainly some gain from game experience, I'd wager that the vast majority of development comes outside of game play. As such, Marshall, Murphy, and Jefferson are developing. We just aren't getting to see the fruits of that development.

Now, whether or not that development is such that they are ready to contribute when called upon is another animal altogether. Because we don't see them play, we don't have any idea if they're really ready to contribute significant productive minutes.

As someone who considered an expanded role for five-star recruits we have in reserve a potential silver lining to the Kelly injury, I don't belittle the value of practice time to a player's development -- like you said, it comprises the majority of it. But by that same token, I don't think logging legitimate minutes in actual NCAA games can be discounted either, there's just no substitute for that experience. If everyone had stayed healthy, we had ample evidence that Jefferson and Murphy most likely weren't going to get much more than minimal court time. Throwing them into the fire by necessity might result in giving them -- and the coaching staff -- the confidence required to have them as options late in the season, even if that's considered somewhat of a surprise. Or, like you said, they might just not be ready for prime time and fall on their faces in the short term, in which case we're back to square 1, simply hoping Kelly gets better soon so we have a fully operational 6 1/2-man rotation. I'm just kind of curious what we have there, that's all. Particularly with Jefferson, I suspect he'd be able to play at least something of a role right now.

[jimsumner]

Yeah, I haven't watched enough State to know if they set multiple screens per possession for Wood. If they do, your point about switches makes a great deal of sense. I do think Seth should be able to stay close to Wood and put a hand in his face (Battier-style). What Seth can't do that Rasheed possibly could is provide a threat to block Wood's shot. Some shooters have a problem shooting if a defender is close or shoves his hand near the shooter's face or shooting hand; others can shoot with a hand in their face if they're confident that the defender's not long enough to stop the shot (without fouling). If Wood is of the latter variety then we either have to use Rasheed on him or play great denial defense so that he doesn't get the ball in shooting position. Either way, it will be a challenge.

State sets lots of screens for Wood. They are especially fond of putting Wood and Howell on the same side of the floor. Howell can set a pretty mean screen.

Wood is a bit on the thin side. Sometimes he responds to physical D by not working as hard to get open. But that doesn't seem to be the case as often this season. The more he moves, the more effective he is.

State is also fond of having Purvis leak out early on D when a shot is taken. They assume Howell or Leslie will get the rebound. So, do you send someone to keep up with Purvis or crash the boards to try to exploit the cherry-picking? GT tried to crash the boards last night and Purvis got a couple of cheapies.

[moonpie23]

if i'm on that bench and his injury opens some space for me? i'm gonna ball!!

i'm gonna ball for my team, my school, my coach and the fans...I'm gonna bring every single effort that i can to make us all look good...

this is why i came to duke......this is what i've dreamed about.....It doesn't matter if it's NCSU, UK or Middle Rock Hill High....

i'm gonna kill it...

[hurleyfor3]

K rarely does. Cone of Silence.

Maybe he's channeling Dean Smith wrt communicating to the media re player injuries. Wait, does this mean I hope he's being like Dean? So confusing.

[Duvall]

Maybe he's channeling Dean Smith wrt communicating to the media re player injuries. Wait, does this mean I hope he's being like Dean? So confusing.

Dean's approach was to provide copious amounts of information about player injuries, some of which would occasionally turn out to be true. Kind of the opposite of this.

[Bob Green]

...(b) you are assuming Quinn can handle Brown, which I think is far from a lock. Brown has 4 or 5 inches and 10 or 15 pounds on Quinn, and from my admittedly limited observations of him has similar quickness. Coach K often likes to lock down the opposing PG, and I'm not sure Quinn has it in him.

You make a solid point for Sulaimon guarding Brown. This approach would be similar to what we saw with Nolan Smith guarding the opponent's point guard. In my mind, Sulaimon would be on Wood but your post has me rethinking my match-up expectations.

[MChambers]

Too many State threads to keep up. Ryan should have thought about this before he messed up his foot.

Personally, I'm tired of this vigilante stuff. Can't our players stay healthy?

[hurleyfor3]

Dean's approach was to provide copious amounts of information about player injuries, some of which would occasionally turn out to be true.

Well, followed by said player starting in the following game and scoring a game high.

[Starter]

K's closeness to his vest reminds me of Belichick, who put Tom Brady on the injury report like 30 straight games or something when he was perfectly fine and refuses to specify until right near game time if injured guys are going to play. And I think Belichick is a genius. It was maddening for us as fans to not know anything about Kyrie's status, or even the details about his injury, but why tell opponents more than he has to?

[gep]

8. The Bruise Brothers, Tyler and Josh are still with us, giving us a blue collar effort every game.


I chuckled at this... :cool:

[cptnflash]

7. Kyle 2.0, Alex Murphy is still around.

I love Alex to death, but please don't call him Kyle 2.0 unless you're referring to his uniform number. It's not even close. Coach K himself has said that Kyle is one of the ten best Duke players OF ALL TIME. Alex, clearly, is not.

[gofurman]

Anyone seen Kelly around campus and can share a little good news with us? anything? just that he said he would be back this season?

[ncexnyc]

I love Alex to death, but please don't call him Kyle 2.0 unless you're referring to his uniform number. It's not even close. Coach K himself has said that Kyle is one of the ten best Duke players OF ALL TIME. Alex, clearly, is not.
You're absolutely right, Alex isn't Kyle.

However all of the players I mentioned in the post you reference have had those things said about them at one time or another on this very forum. So I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if these kids are held in such high esteem by the various board members then the world isn't coming to and end if Ryan misses any significant time.

The 2011 season isn't all that far behind us and we didn't collapse when Kyrie went down with his toe injury. Now I understand the dropoff from Kyrie to Nolan isn't as great as from Ryan to Amile, but I believe this team has a better mix of players and the talent to overcome any possible loss.

[cptnflash]

You're absolutely right, Alex isn't Kyle.

However all of the players I mentioned in the post you reference have had those things said about them at one time or another on this very forum. So I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if these kids are held in such high esteem by the various board members then the world isn't coming to and end if Ryan misses any significant time.

The 2011 season isn't all that far behind us and we didn't collapse when Kyrie went down with his toe injury. Now I understand the dropoff from Kyrie to Nolan isn't as great as from Ryan to Amile, but I believe this team has a better mix of players and the talent to overcome any possible loss.

We didn't collapse when Kyrie went down, that's true, but we went from being one of the favorites (edit: THE favorite) to win the national championship to being a long shot. This year is similar in my opinion. I think I'm getting lumped into the "overreactors / sky is falling" crowd (heck, I might be the poster child for that group), so just to be clear, this is what I think:

Prior to Ryan's injury, we were clearly one of the five best teams in the country. We already had one championship in hand, and provided that none of our starters got hurt (and Seth's injury didn't get any worse), we were the overwhelming favorite to win the ACC regular season, would have been a solid favorite to win the ACC tournament, would most likely have been a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament (possibly #1 overall, given our non-conference performance), and were a legitimate contender for a Final Four / National Championship run.

If Ryan is able to come back in two to four weeks and be just as effective as he was before he got hurt, I still believe all of those things are true. Even a month away from the team is unlikely to derail the development of our starting unit to the point where our team's ceiling would be materially diminished.

However, if Ryan is out for (God forbid) the most or all of rest of the regular season, or longer, I believe our ceiling comes down. Ryan is irreplaceable, and the dropoff from him to whomever takes his minutes might be the biggest of our starting five. Without Ryan, we are one of several teams capable of winning the ACC regular season and tournament, but no longer the favorite in my opinion. And we're no longer one of the top 5 teams in the country. Sweet 16 / Elite 8 becomes a reasonable goal. Anything beyond that, just like 2011, is a long shot.

Yes, Ryan is that valuable. I respect and love all of the guys on our bench that are going to play in his absence, and I look forward to watching their growth and contributions. But they were on the bench, and Ryan was on the court, for a reason.

So anyway, if that translates into "the sky is falling", so be it. In any case, hopefully we all agree on one thing - get well soon, Ryan!

[-jk]

I think I missed it - where did the 2-4 week meme come from? All I've seen from Duke is "indefinitely".

-jk

[tbyers11]

I think I missed it - where did the 2-4 week meme come from? All I've seen from Duke is "indefinitely".

-jk

This blog post (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21527773/dukes-ryan-kelly-out-extended-period-with-foot-injury) from Jeff Goodman cites "multiple sources" with 2-4 weeks. He is usually pretty reputable and since his info is on the optimistic side :) I hope he is correct.

[Newton_14]

I think I missed it - where did the 2-4 week meme come from? All I've seen from Duke is "indefinitely".

-jk

Jeff Goodmand put up a story that Julio linked on the front page, and SB Nation also put up an article citing sources who said 2 weeks best case, and 2 to 4 weeks expected. It's thought to be a mild-sprain of the mid-foot. No broken bones.

[Kedsy]

However, if Ryan is out for (God forbid) the most or all of rest of the regular season, or longer, I believe our ceiling comes down.

I agree our team isn't as powerful without Ryan, but I don't think things are as bad as you paint them. My view is that with Ryan we're a top 5 team and probable #1 seed in the NCAA tournament. Without him we're probably top 15, with the potential to sneak into the top 10 if Josh, Alex, Amile, and/or Marshall show themselves to be ACC starting-quality players. We'd still be the favorite to win the ACC regular season without Ryan, and have the #1 seed in the ACC tournament. We'd probably slip to a #2 seed in the NCAA tournament.

So our outlook wouldn't be as rosy without Ryan, but it wouldn't be the end of the world, either. Hopefully, though, Ryan will return and get back to full strength by mid-February (or hopefully earlier), and then all this hand-wringing will be moot.

[heyman25]

As much as I love Duke Basketball, the way the program communicates about injuries drives me a bit crazy. They are as opaque as possible.

Thus, it is unclear to me, based on the program's statements, what the extent of Ryan's injury is, or what a realistic assessment of his return is.

Though, actually, I appreciate that he is out "indefinitely". That is better than the usual, "day-to-day" that we hear about before players lose extensive time.

Point being, I don't expect to see Ryan for a long time (Lance coming back quickly from his back injury was the exception that proves the rule), and the key to our success going forward will be 1) adjusting to Ryan's absence and the things the he does and 2) having Josh/Amile/Alex collectively step up.

On another site a fan joked we need to use waterboarding to get better information from the Duke staff. Kyrie Irving saga was an example of how Duke Basketball handles injury information.

[billyj]

K's closeness to his vest reminds me of Belichick, who put Tom Brady on the injury report like 30 straight games or something when he was perfectly fine and refuses to specify until right near game time if injured guys are going to play. And I think Belichick is a genius. It was maddening for us as fans to not know anything about Kyrie's status, or even the details about his injury, but why tell opponents more than he has to?

Off topic, but if Gisselle give him a hicky, Tom brady would be listed as "bruises on the neck". :cool:

[Starter]

I'm concerned about the nature of the injury. Frankly, I'd prefer if he had fractured something. At least then, there's a relatively finite return target, and Duke has shown an ability to speed up its players' recovery times from that injury. Carlos Boozer was playing again in like two weeks. Foot sprains are much more vague. Totally different sport, but Darren McFadden had one last year that had him "week-to-week" from early November through the rest of the season and he never played again; that was the dreaded Lisfranc sprain. DeMarco Murray had one this year that supposedly wasn't a Lisfranc sprain, he tried battling his way back into the game he was injured RG3 style, and still missed almost 2 months after that. If Kelly's injury isn't a Lisfranc sprain, I'd feel fairly confident we're going to see him again, hopefully in a month or so. If it is Lisfranc, he might be done for the year.The thing that tells me it's probably not a Lisfranc is Goodman's team source said Duke hopes to have him back in two weeks. But I'm not going to feel comfortable until I see him back out there. Because I hate to say it, but I agree with the poster who said it dramatically drops this team's postseason ceiling if Kelly doesn't return.

[Starter]

By the way, I have to give credit to Mr. Newton_14. Two years ago, I thought Kelly was skilled, but also that his lack of athleticism would prevent him from being a big-time contributor. Newton_14 assured me that I should have some patience and Kelly would surprise me. And sure enough, Kelly looks like a completely different guy, his offensive skills are on point and he's become a credible defender and a superb shot blocker. Like Newton says in his sig, he was playing at a First-Team All ACC level. Much like with Kyrie's injury, you just hate to see something get in the way of the season he was having. Here's hoping we get him back, and at close to the level he was at before.

[diveonthefloor]

On the bright side, it's almost unheard of for Duke to win a championship unless a key player goes down for a few weeks in mid season.

[cbarry]

I'm concerned about the nature of the injury. Frankly, I'd prefer if he had fractured something.

I don't think they ever said he DIDN'T fracture something. They call it an injury, which could include a fracture. I bet he probably has a fracture of some sort. I'm worried about it, since it is the same injury that sidelined him last year.

[ChillinDuke]

Question: are there rules regarding what a team has to disclose regarding injuries, timetables to return, and availability for the next game? Kelly is out "indefinitely". Is "indefinitely" one or 5 or 6 options a team has to disclose an injury? If it's a fracture, is a team required to say "fracture"? Can a team just say "out"? Can a team say nothing at all?

First responder gets a pitchfork.

(jk)

(or am I?)

- Chillin

[Newton_14]

I don't think they ever said he DIDN'T fracture something. They call it an injury, which could include a fracture. I bet he probably has a fracture of some sort. I'm worried about it, since it is the same injury that sidelined him last year.

Can't remember which article, but one of them contained a quote stating there was no break. If I run across it again, I will post it.

It was described as a mid-foot sprain. Hopefully it responds to rest and treatment and he only misses the State and GaTech games. That would be the best case scenario.

[cbarry]

Thanks. I did read the article where the doctor (not involved in his care) thought it was a mid-foot sprain. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'd love to have Ryan back for the ACC Tourney (or earlier if possible!!). Fingers crossed!

[Cameron]

There are several posts in this thread that propose the idea that Kelly could in fact play tomorrow afternoon in Raleigh. They are likely merely the hopes of desperate dreamers (myself included), but stranger things have happened. Do we actually have confirmation that Ryan will not be playing?

Even if Ryan were physically able to go against State, rushing his return just five days after tweaking a foot injury that has resulted in significant lost time previously would probably be unwise.

[SupaDave]

On another site a fan joked we need to use waterboarding to get better information from the Duke staff. Kyrie Irving saga was an example of how Duke Basketball handles injury information.

Actually Kyrie was out the exact amount of time predicted and I can't remember the last time I was so "toe"tally informed... (they even released a dang rehab video)

[Cameron]

Thanks. I did read the article where the doctor (not involved in his care) thought it was a mid-foot sprain. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'd love to have Ryan back for the ACC Tourney (or earlier if possible!!). Fingers crossed!

I'd be very interested to know what you have read or heard that makes you believe that Ryan returning prior to the ACC Tournament will require finger crossing. If true, that would be almost nine weeks from now.

Some here leave hope for a return tomorrow, while others think it may be two to four weeks or that anything before the NCAA Tournament would be fortunate. So that leaves everything from Ryan either seriously stubbing his toe or being afflicted by gangrene. Nobody here seems to be on the same page at all. We are totally in the dark. Which sucks.

[SupaDave]

Sounds quite similar to what I've heard with the exception of the injured area...

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8836750/marcus-camby-new-york-knicks-2-4-weeks-injured-foot

[Newton_14]

I'd be very interested to know what you have read or heard that makes you believe that Ryan returning prior to the ACC Tournament will require finger crossing. If true, that would be almost nine weeks from now.

Some here leave hope for a return tomorrow, while others think it may be two to four weeks or that anything before the NCAA Tournament would be fortunate. So that leaves everything from Ryan either seriously stubbing his toe or being afflicted by gangrene. Nobody here seems to be on the same page at all. We are totally in the dark. Which sucks.

Seems fairly straightforward and informative to me...
http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2013/1/9/3857938/ryan-kelly-injury-duke-blue-devils-ankle
https://twitter.com/GoodmanCBS/status/289162222461128704
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21527773/dukes-ryan-kelly-out-extended-period-with-foot-injury

[jipops]

I'd be very interested to know what you have read or heard that makes you believe that Ryan returning prior to the ACC Tournament will require finger crossing. If true, that would be almost nine weeks from now.

Some here leave hope for a return tomorrow, while others think it may be two to four weeks or that anything before the NCAA Tournament would be fortunate. So that leaves everything from Ryan either seriously stubbing his toe or being afflicted by gangrene. Nobody here seems to be on the same page at all. We are totally in the dark. Which sucks.

I just hope he is back in time for NBA pre-draft workouts in May:)

[uh_no]

Actually Kyrie was out the exact amount of time predicted and I can't remember the last time I was so "toe"tally informed... (they even released a dang rehab video)

I seem to recall K saying he didn't expect Kyrie to come back, and at least one other person (bilas?) calling it a "pipe dream"

[Cameron]

Seems fairly straightforward and informative to me...
http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2013/1/9/3857938/ryan-kelly-injury-duke-blue-devils-ankle
https://twitter.com/GoodmanCBS/status/289162222461128704
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21527773/dukes-ryan-kelly-out-extended-period-with-foot-injury

Not when reading through this thread, it isn't.

Thanks for the links, though. As another poster previously stated, Goodman simply got his information from sbnation, and it appears CBS got its information from Goodman. And Duke has yet to make a definitive statement, which, as we all know, won't be happening anytime soon.

If Ryan is going to be out for any period of length, hopefully it is no more than two or three weeks and we have him back by early February.

[Newton_14]

Not when reading through this thread, it isn't.

Thanks for the links, though. As another poster previously stated, Goodman simply got his information from sbnation, and it appears CBS got its information from Goodman. And Duke has yet to make a definitive statement, which, as we all know, won't be happening anytime soon.

If Ryan is going to be out for any period of length, hopefully it is no more than two or three weeks and we have him back by early February.

Actually Goodman stated he talked to a source close to the famly for his info. I think SB Nation actually used Goodman as their source so fair point there. Duke's official statement was "indefinitely".

Agree too on thread comments. Have no idea why anyone thinks Ryan could play tomorrow, or even against GaTech. K himself already said Ryan would not play tomorrow. I think we have to go with the 2-4 week timeline as the best information available to go on.

[Cameron]

Actually Goodman stated he talked to a source close to the famly for his info. I think SB Nation actually used Goodman as their source so fair point there. Duke's official statement was indefinitely.

Agree too on thread comments. Have no idea why anyone thinks Ryan could play tomorrow, or even against GaTech. K himself already said Ryan would not play tomorrow. I think we have to go with the 2-4 week timeline as the best information available to go on.

Ah. Thanks.

And I must have missed K's comments re tomorrow's game. Disappointing, but obviously expected.

[SupaDave]

I seem to recall K saying he didn't expect Kyrie to come back, and at least one other person (bilas?) calling it a "pipe dream"

They said he could miss the rest of the season - and he did!!

[Kedsy]

Sounds quite similar to what I've heard with the exception of the injured area...

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8836750/marcus-camby-new-york-knicks-2-4-weeks-injured-foot

Well, sort of, except Camby is 115 years old so presumably it takes longer for him to heal.

[nyesq83]

In the interview with Bob the other day, K said "a long time".

[SupaDave]

Well, sort of, except Camby is 115 years old so presumably it takes longer for him to heal.

Hilarious and true. But he also has an advantage in that he doesn't have to worry about a pesky thing like school and can rehab around the clock.

[Neochina]

Ryan Kelly ‏@RyanKelly34 "Want to thank everyone for their prayers and support! God has a plan! "I can do all this through him who gives me strength."Philippians 4:13"

Does this sound like the thoughts of someone out 2-4 weeks?

[uh_no]

Ryan Kelly ‏@RyanKelly34 "Want to thank everyone for their prayers and support! God has a plan! "I can do all this through him who gives me strength."Philippians 4:13"

Does this sound like the thoughts of someone out 2-4 weeks?

It doesn't sound like anything other than a nice tweet about him working through his injury....but feel free to read into anything....

[ArkieDukie]

Ryan Kelly ‏@RyanKelly34 "Want to thank everyone for their prayers and support! God has a plan! "I can do all this through him who gives me strength."Philippians 4:13"

Does this sound like the thoughts of someone out 2-4 weeks?

I think it sounds like a very optimistic person who has been told they'll be out for a while. Could be wrong, though.

[CDu]

Kelly on crutches walking onto the court.

[CDu]

Kelly with crutches and the dreaded boot.

[gumbomoop]

Thunder-dumb by Rasheed. Dumb. Dumb.

[jv001]

Ryan Kelly ‏@RyanKelly34 "Want to thank everyone for their prayers and support! God has a plan! "I can do all this through him who gives me strength."Philippians 4:13"

Does this sound like the thoughts of someone out 2-4 weeks?

Sounds like a young man with his priorites in order. You have my prayers Ryan. GoDuke!

[DukeGirl4ever]

Hi friends,

It's been a long time since I've posted, but just wanted some clarification on a few sentences from this article:
http://bluedevilnation.net/2013/01/duke-falls-short-to-n-c-state-for-first-loss/


And be it true or not, two Duke players mentioned Kelly would necessarily come back. Don’t run too far with that for rumors claim a month max, but only time will tell.

That first sentence is hard for me to comprehend. To me, it sounds like it should almost be written to say "would NOT necessarily come back".
Just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on that and could help me decode it.

I am a writing teacher, but the writing samples I get from my 7th and 8th graders are not on this same level.:p


EDIT - And prayers to Ryan! I hate this for him and all that he has done to improve his game. He is a great example of a student-athlete. Yes, as a fan, this injury bothers me, but it bothers me more for the player that Ryan Kelly has become.

[DukeGirl4ever]

I guess my good eye found a mistake, as it has now since been corrected and reads:

Whether it’s true or not, two Duke players mentioned Kelly would not necessarily come back and they would prepare as if he would not. Don’t run too far with that for rumors claim a month max now, but only time will tell.




Hi friends,

It's been a long time since I've posted, but just wanted some clarification on a few sentences from this article:
http://bluedevilnation.net/2013/01/duke-falls-short-to-n-c-state-for-first-loss/



That first sentence is hard for me to comprehend. To me, it sounds like it should almost be written to say "would NOT necessarily come back".
Just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on that and could help me decode it.

I am a writing teacher, but the writing samples I get from my 7th and 8th graders are not on this same level.:p


EDIT - And prayers to Ryan! I hate this for him and all that he has done to improve his game. He is a great example of a student-athlete. Yes, as a fan, this injury bothers me, but it bothers me more for the player that Ryan Kelly has become.

[Newton_14]

I guess my good eye found a mistake, as it has now since been corrected and reads:

Well, in fairness, the very next sentence in the article was the following: "Don’t run too far with that, though, as rumors now are claiming Kelly will be out a month max. But only time will tell."

So we wait an hope the 2-4 week timeline a source shared with Jeff Goodman holds true. It would be terribly disappointing if Ryan is lost for the year. I don't even want to consider it.

[uh_no]

Well, in fairness, the very next sentence in the article was the following: "Don’t run too far with that, though, as rumors now are claiming Kelly will be out a month max. But only time will tell."

So we wait an hope the 2-4 week timeline a source shared with Jeff Goodman holds true. It would be terribly disappointing if Ryan is lost for the year. I don't even want to consider it.

I think they were much more upfront when there was a chance that kyrie was done for the year....I hear "indefinitely" tossed around, but with kyrie, they gave the injury and explained why there was a good chance he was done for.

[wavedukefan70s]

Just out of curiosity if Kelly can not come back.could he get a medical hardship waiver and come back next season if he chose to?i had to ask.

[DukeGirl4ever]

Well, in fairness, the very next sentence in the article was the following: "Don’t run too far with that, though, as rumors now are claiming Kelly will be out a month max. But only time will tell."

So we wait an hope the 2-4 week timeline a source shared with Jeff Goodman holds true. It would be terribly disappointing if Ryan is lost for the year. I don't even want to consider it.


Hence the confusion :confused:

I'm going to hope for that time period Goodman has thrown out there. Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy the team that's on the floor and try not to get caught up in the waiting game like I did when Kyrie was out.

[CDu]

Just out of curiosity if Kelly can not come back.could he get a medical hardship waiver and come back next season if he chose to?i had to ask.

Nope. He has played too many games this year to qualify.

[DBFAN]

I hate being the one to post this, but Seth Davis is tweeting that Ryan may opt for surgery

Yikes

[NashvilleDevil]

I hate being the one to post this, but Seth Davis is tweeting that Ryan may opt for surgery

Yikes

Seth Davis is never right.

[scottdude8]

I hate being the one to post this, but Seth Davis is tweeting that Ryan may opt for surgery

Yikes

Yeah, at halftime of the Michigan game Davis was saying that, from what he's hearing, if this wasn't the middle of the season Kelly would probably have surgery, and even still he may be out for the year.

At the beginning of the season I thought this year would perhaps run parallel to the 2010 national title, but instead it's starting to look too much like 2011: a dominant start that has us thinking National Championship, but then a key part of the team goes down with a seemingly innocuous injury that keeps him out and makes us a good team instead of a great team. I'm still hoping this isn't the case, but the anxiety is definitely rising.

[DBFAN]

Seth Davis is never right.

I hope so

[Philadukie]

If you want to spare yourself the ongoing psychological torment, it's best to assume that Kelly is done for the season. The players and staff are preparing as if he's not coming back (I don't have the links offhand, but there are several direct quotes from members of the team out there confirming this). Coach K meant it when he said "a long time."

It's certainly heartbreaking to imagine Ryan out for the rest of the season (both for him and the team), but for myself, based on the info that's out there (which one could certainly discount until officially confirmed by the program), I'm looking forward as a fan assuming he's not coming back. This is both to move on from feeling sorry about it and to enable myself to adjust my expectations and appreciate the team as its currently constituted. FWIW.

[cptnflash]

If you want to spare yourself the ongoing psychological torment, it's best to assume that Kelly is done for the season. The players and staff are preparing as if he's not coming back (I don't have the links offhand, but there are several direct quotes from members of the team out there confirming this). Coach K meant it when he said "a long time."

It's certainly heartbreaking to imagine Ryan out for the rest of the season (both for him and the team), but for myself, based on the info that's out there (which one could certainly discount until officially confirmed by the program), I'm looking forward as a fan assuming he's not coming back. This is both to move on from feeling sorry about it and to enable myself to adjust my expectations and appreciate the team as its currently constituted. FWIW.

This is great advice. I'm trying to do the same thing.

[Cameron]

Well, this thread just took a turn for the worse. I feel like I am reading the script of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

With everything we've seen to this point -- the utter dead silence from the program, Kelly on crutches, reports of Ryan opting for surgery, and just an overall horribly ominous feeling in my stomach -- I'm also inclined to believe that Ryan Kelly's career at Duke is over. If so, he was brilliant.

I just cannot believe this has happened again.

[jipops]

If you want to spare yourself the ongoing psychological torment, it's best to assume that Kelly is done for the season. The players and staff are preparing as if he's not coming back (I don't have the links offhand, but there are several direct quotes from members of the team out there confirming this). Coach K meant it when he said "a long time."

It's certainly heartbreaking to imagine Ryan out for the rest of the season (both for him and the team), but for myself, based on the info that's out there (which one could certainly discount until officially confirmed by the program), I'm looking forward as a fan assuming he's not coming back. This is both to move on from feeling sorry about it and to enable myself to adjust my expectations and appreciate the team as its currently constituted. FWIW.

No way he's done. I'm feeling a little less optimistic about an early Feb return but still holding out hope. And to prepare like he's not coming back is the correct thing to do even if he is coming back in 2 weeks. Role players like Hairston and Jefferson need to know they are being thrown into the fire and not prepare mentally like it's some temporary thing.

[ice-9]

I agree our team isn't as powerful without Ryan, but I don't think things are as bad as you paint them. My view is that with Ryan we're a top 5 team and probable #1 seed in the NCAA tournament. Without him we're probably top 15, with the potential to sneak into the top 10 if Josh, Alex, Amile, and/or Marshall show themselves to be ACC starting-quality players. We'd still be the favorite to win the ACC regular season without Ryan, and have the #1 seed in the ACC tournament. We'd probably slip to a #2 seed in the NCAA tournament.

So our outlook wouldn't be as rosy without Ryan, but it wouldn't be the end of the world, either. Hopefully, though, Ryan will return and get back to full strength by mid-February (or hopefully earlier), and then all this hand-wringing will be moot.

Really? Think I might be on the optimistic side.

Even without Ryan, I still expect us to win the ACC regular season and tournament. I'm confident we can beat NC State in Cameron, and we match up well against the next best team in Miami (ex-Ryan; with Ryan we would have a big mismatch advantage).

If we can go through the regular season with at most one more loss and win our tournament, we'll certainly be a #1 seed. We might even get away with two losses and be a #1 seed, or even three depending on what the other contenders do.

[dukelifer]

Really? Think I might be on the optimistic side.

Even without Ryan, I still expect us to win the ACC regular season and tournament. I'm confident we can beat NC State in Cameron, and we match up well against the next best team in Miami (ex-Ryan; with Ryan we would have a big mismatch advantage).

If we can go through the regular season with at most one more loss and win our tournament, we'll certainly be a #1 seed. We might even get away with two losses and be a #1 seed, or even three depending on what the other contenders do.

It is hard to have confidence in Duke until we see them win without Ryan. Last year Duke ended the season without him and struggled and the struggles continue this year in the 1.5 games he has been out. Duke can certainly be competitive and they were against State- but it is all about winning games. Duke will need to figure out how to do that before anyone can speculate on seeding and tourney berths. At this point- Duke is 0-1 without Kelly.

[-bdbd]

Yeah, at halftime of the Michigan game Davis was saying that, from what he's hearing, if this wasn't the middle of the season Kelly would probably have surgery, and even still he may be out for the year.

At the beginning of the season I thought this year would perhaps run parallel to the 2010 national title, but instead it's starting to look too much like 2011: a dominant start that has us thinking National Championship, but then a key part of the team goes down with a seemingly innocuous injury that keeps him out and makes us a good team instead of a great team. I'm still hoping this isn't the case, but the anxiety is definitely rising.

Saw the same "back in the studio" piece at the Mich/OSU halftime, and honestly thought was the most pessimistic-sounding thing I'd heard about Ryan's injury so far. Seth said that if it had happened out of season, then Kelly definitely would have corrective surgery now, and could still choose that path. But, he said, the team is hoping to coax it along without that (but that the timeline for his return was still "a fluid situation"). Seth added that "He may well not return at all."

I agree with the posters that the rest of the kids and staff have to prepare as if he is not coming back. I also agree that this is a top-15 team even w/o Ryan out there, at least talent-wise, but that they will need to work extraordinarily hard in order to come together as a team, in terms of chemistry, new roles, new rotations and altered relationships. I think that it is pretty clear, as well, that at least one (if not more) of the Freshmen will need to assert themselves.
My money is on AJ, but would be very happy to see MP3 or Murphy step up themselves.

To counter the pessimists out there, I give you this: While we lost to State by 8 on Sat. the Duke squad, even with one Frosh regular having a terrible shooting day, and another key Kelly rplacement getting victimized by a couple of pretty marginal calls; but they still played very well overall and had our top-20 opponent within 4 points in the final 2 minutes. We very easily could have still won. Duke is still Duke, and Coach K is still there. We may lose a couple more w/o Kelly, but this is STILL a very talented and potent team.

Almost all of us thought that it was over, or at least our chances were struck a severe blow, in 2001 when Boozer went down. I have faith that K will give us the best chance at adapting to these altered circumstances. :eek:

[wavedukefan70s]

Yes that was true last year.this we have a healthy cook,Rasheed and Jefferson.not to mention mason is flat out balling.we have guys that can drive,slash and kick.we couldn't really do that last year.i would love to have Kelly back.with the talent that's on the bench or was the bench.you have to be excited to see what we can become.

[Cameron]

Almost all of us thought that it was over, or at least our chances were struck a severe blow, in 2001 when Boozer went down. I have faith that K will give us the best chance at adapting to these altered circumstances.

True, but that team also had Shane Battier and Jason Williams, both national players of the year in 2001, in addition to Mike Dunleavy and Chris Duhon. All four went on to start in the NBA and were All-Americans at Duke.

Our circumstances this season without Kelly, I think, are something different. I think you can mask a lot of shortcomings (i.e. Boozer going down) when you have a player like Shane who can play and defend against all four positions. Ryan was that player -- obviously to a lesser degree; Battier was arguably the GOAT at Duke -- and he's now gone. At least for the time being.

If Ryan does not return for the remainder of the year, I personally do not see how Duke can win the ultimate prize. As another poster stated the other day, he's the central cog in our offense and IMO the most important offensive and defensive player on our team due to his vast versatility.

Then again, I am incredibly sad right now by all of this and have nothing positive to say so I probably should refrain from posting.

[Kedsy]

If Ryan does not return for the remainder of the year, I personally do not see how Duke can win the ultimate prize.

Look at it this way -- our current team without Ryan is a lot better than the 2010 Butler team that came within a couple points of winning the title. It's way better than either finalist in 2011. There have been many other champions over the years that were not as good as our team right now, without Ryan. Will it be harder to win it all without Ryan? Absolutely. And even with Ryan the odds are against us. So what? There's a lot more to Duke basketball than winning an NCAA title. There's also nothing we can do about it. We have no information about Ryan and even if we did what would we do with it? I suggest we do the same thing we'd do if Ryan hadn't gotten hurt -- see who's available to play on a game by game basis, let each game play out, and root for our team.


Then again, I am incredibly sad right now by all of this and have nothing positive to say so I probably should refrain from posting.

If recollection serves, Seth Davis reported there was without doubt absolutely no way Kyrie would play again in 2011, and he was wrong. Of course you can be sad if you wish, but if you weren't sad before the Seth Davis report, I would advise you not to take the report so seriously.

[Cameron]

Look at it this way -- our current team without Ryan is a lot better than the 2010 Butler team that came within a couple points of winning the title. It's way better than either finalist in 2011. There have been many other champions over the years that were not as good as our team right now, without Ryan. Will it be harder to win it all without Ryan? Absolutely. And even with Ryan the odds are against us. So what? There's a lot more to Duke basketball than winning an NCAA title. There's also nothing we can do about it. We have no information about Ryan and even if we did what would we do with it? I suggest we do the same thing we'd do if Ryan hadn't gotten hurt -- see who's available to play on a game by game basis, let each game play out, and root for our team.

If recollection serves, Seth Davis reported there was without doubt absolutely no way Kyrie would play again in 2011, and he was wrong. Of course you can be sad if you wish, but if you weren't sad before the Seth Davis report, I would advise you not to take the report so seriously.

You, good sir, may have just talked me off the ledge. Still debating, but thinking about coming down now. Thanks.

Though, I don't necessarily know that you can claim with certainty that this year's Duke team without Kelly is "a lot better" than Butler's 2010 national runner-up team. That was a very, very good club that Brad Stevens had with a trio of players as good as any in the country by the time the tournament rolled around that year in Gordon Hayward, Matt Howard and Shelvin Mack, two of which would go on to play in the NBA and one becoming a starter. They were plenty good enough to give us the ultimate run for our money in the title game. I mean, they did come within an inch of beating us.

Point taken, though.

[ice-9]

It is hard to have confidence in Duke until we see them win without Ryan. Last year Duke ended the season without him and struggled and the struggles continue this year in the 1.5 games he has been out. Duke can certainly be competitive and they were against State- but it is all about winning games. Duke will need to figure out how to do that before anyone can speculate on seeding and tourney berths. At this point- Duke is 0-1 without Kelly.

It's not baseless speculation; we've had half a season to assess the other ACC teams. With Ryan, Duke was head and shoulders above everyone else. Without Ryan, I still think we're the favorite to win the ACC (or co-favorite at worst with NC State). Think if we had to hold a preseason poll today -- most people will still vote Duke and NC State 1-2 or 2-1.

As for the other ACC teams:
- UVA and Miami could have been really good, but have been handicapped with key injuries.
- UNC is horrible this year.
- FSU has disappointed terribly.
- Maryland improved, but hasn't shown anything.
- Virginia Tech already ran out of gas.
- The bottom dwellers are better, but continue to be bottom dwellers.

Make no mistake, Duke will probably lose again in the ACC, but I think we have a decent chance of winning the ACC and the tournament even without Ryan. And if we do that with one or two losses, a 1 seed is not an unreasonable expectation.

Like the 2001 team that survived Boozer's injury, we have two critical players in Mason and Seth. We also have an emerging star in Cook. These three guys will anchor the team in Ryan's absence. We also have a very talented freshman in Rasheed who will at some point get out of his slump, and three players in Amile, Hairston and Marshall who can take a big step up. Coach K will just have to figure out how these pieces can best fit together.

We'll be a different team, probably a worse one than if we had Ryan, but we can still be very good. We're still a championship contender.

[COYS]

It's not baseless speculation; we've had half a season to assess the other ACC teams. With Ryan, Duke was head and shoulders above everyone else. Without Ryan, I still think we're the favorite to win the ACC (or co-favorite at worst with NC State). Think if we had to hold a preseason poll today -- most people will still vote Duke and NC State 1-2 or 2-1.

As for the other ACC teams:
- UVA and Miami could have been really good, but have been handicapped with key injuries.
- UNC is horrible this year.
- FSU has disappointed terribly.
- Maryland improved, but hasn't shown anything.
- Virginia Tech already ran out of gas.
- The bottom dwellers are better, but continue to be bottom dwellers.

Make no mistake, Duke will probably lose again in the ACC, but I think we have a decent chance of winning the ACC and the tournament even without Ryan. And if we do that with one or two losses, a 1 seed is not an unreasonable expectation.

Like the 2001 team that survived Boozer's injury, we have two critical players in Mason and Seth. We also have an emerging star in Cook. These three guys will anchor the team in Ryan's absence. We also have a very talented freshman in Rasheed who will at some point get out of his slump, and three players in Amile, Hairston and Marshall who can take a big step up. Coach K will just have to figure out how these pieces can best fit together.

We'll be a different team, probably a worse one than if we had Ryan, but we can still be very good. We're still a championship contender.

This is perfectly reasonable analysis. Everyone wants Ryan back. Our offense is clearly better with him in the lineup. However, Duke still has the ability to be pretty explosive offensively. We've been in a bit of a team slump with Mason and Rasheed coming back down to earth a little bit. However, Ryan and Quinn had stepped up to pick up some of the slack. With Ryan out, Quinn needs to continue to be a bigger scoring threat and we need Rasheed to get out of his slump. It was disappointing losing to State but it wasn't one of those losses that "exposes" a team or anything like that. It just showed how much we need Rasheed to be a more consistent scoring threat when Ryan is out. Our defense wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad and State is a good offensive team. The final score belied a little bit of the defensive effort because of State's high efficiency from the free throw line as we were fouling to stop the clock over the last 1 3/4 minutes. Sometimes you just have to score a little bit more to win. That's a lot easier to do with Ryan in the lineup than with him on the sidelines if Rasheed is shooting poorly from the floor.

Considering how good State is offensively, how hyped they were playing the number 1 team at home, and that Duke had little time to make adjustments after the loss of their most in form offensive player, I'm not too concerned. I think Rasheed will break through the freshman wall. I also think the staff will be hard pressed not to give Amile a little more burn, as well, even though I agree that he still has a lot to learn regarding defensive positioning. However, he has too much potential to help the offense. Plus, I think we were actually lucky to get so many foul-free minutes from Josh. If a combo of Amile and Josh can play solid defense and continue to score at a decent clip as a combo and Rasheed gets it going again, Duke is definitely still the favorite to win the ACC, even without Ryan.

When Ryan does come back, I don't think reintegrating him into the lineup will be as difficult as reintegrating Kyrie two years ago. Ryan will automatically space the floor by virtue of being on the court. That makes everyone else's job on offense a lot easier. Unlike in 2010, no one will have to change roles when Ryan returns, except for maybe Josh and Amile, who will see their minutes trimmed. However, I think that benefits Josh as he can return to his agressive ways on defense.

[CDu]

Considering how good State is offensively, how hyped they were playing the number 1 team at home, and that Duke had little time to make adjustments after the loss of their most in form offensive player, I'm not too concerned. I think Rasheed will break through the freshman wall. I also think the staff will be hard pressed not to give Amile a little more burn, as well, even though I agree that he still has a lot to learn regarding defensive positioning. However, he has too much potential to help the offense. Plus, I think we were actually lucky to get so many foul-free minutes from Josh. If a combo of Amile and Josh can play solid defense and continue to score at a decent clip as a combo and Rasheed gets it going again, Duke is definitely still the favorite to win the ACC, even without Ryan.

Coming into the season (well, at least after Dieng went down for Louisville), I felt that the game at State would be our toughest matchup of the season. Even with Kelly, I felt there was a reasonably decent chance we'd lose it. That we played them so tough without Kelly, without Curry for the final minutes, and with Sulaimon struggling so much offensively, is a positive in my mind.

Leslie is, by a large margin, the toughest remaining assignment at the PF position (unless we decide to play Jefferson/Hairston on Kadji - then it is a closer comparison), and Brown is, without question, the toughest PG assignment we'll face the rest of the way. Given that this was Jefferson's first road game and his first experience with meaningful minutes against a quality opponent, I can only expect him to get better with managing foul trouble. And as Jefferson gets better, we begin to address some (though obviously not all) of the problems introduced by the loss of Kelly.


When Ryan does come back, I don't think reintegrating him into the lineup will be as difficult as reintegrating Kyrie two years ago. Ryan will automatically space the floor by virtue of being on the court. That makes everyone else's job on offense a lot easier. Unlike in 2010, no one will have to change roles when Ryan returns, except for maybe Josh and Amile, who will see their minutes trimmed. However, I think that benefits Josh as he can return to his agressive ways on defense.

I'd revise this to say "if" Kelly comes back, as there's no guarantee he comes back. But "if" he comes back, what you say is completely accurate. Kelly is a complementary player on offense. He can be a factor without needing to have the ball at all. We hardly have to run plays for him, and he doesn't command the ball in a way that would require major adjustments. So the team shouldn't have a huge adjustment period like we did when Irving returned to the PG spot. So that's a positive.

[Cameron]

While we certainly still are a very good team even without Ryan, this year's team has almost nothing in common with the 2001 national champion club. Losing Boozer and Kelly are not the same at all. Again, that team had TWO national players of the year in Shane Battier and Jason Williams as well as Mike Dunleavy to fall back on in Boozer's absence. While Casey Sanders did an admirable job of stepping in and helping to soften the blow inside, Shane Battier was the lynchpin during that transition. He had the ability to play pretty much every position on the floor, both offensively and defensively, at an elite level. Whether playing on the wing, at power forward or center, Shane brought basically the same level of skill to each role asked of him, which is what made Shane such a special talent and arguably the greatest ever at Duke.

Unfortunately, Ryan was the closest player we had on this team to that type of versatility. That's hard to duplicate, if not impossible. We still have a ton of talent at our disposal, but certainly not the same caliber that our 2001 team did. That was perhaps the best team in college basketball over the last 25 years.

[ice-9]

While we certainly still are a very good team even without Ryan, this year's team has almost nothing in common with the 2001 national champion club. Losing Boozer and Kelly are not the same at all. Again, that team had TWO national players of the year in Shane Battier and Jason Williams as well as Mike Dunleavy to fall back on in Boozer's absence. While Casey Sanders did an admirable job of stepping in and helping to soften the blow inside, Shane Battier was the lynchpin during that transition. He had the ability to play pretty much every position on the floor, both offensively and defensively, at an elite level. Whether playing on the wing, at power forward or center, Shane brought basically the same level of skill to each role asked of him, which is what made Shane such a special talent and arguably the greatest ever at Duke.

Unfortunately, Ryan was the closest player we had on this team to that type of versatility. That's hard to duplicate, if not impossible. We still have a ton of talent at our disposal, but certainly not the same caliber that our 2001 team did. That was perhaps the best team in college basketball over the last 25 years.

Not trying to be argumentative, but we have two Wooden national player of the year candidates in Seth and Mason. Quinn is a future national player of the year candidate and I'd argue the equivalent to Dunleavy in terms of impact. Maybe more on a relative basis. While I agree Ryan is this year's Battier, we have a much more talented complement of players to take his place. Amile, Murphy, Josh and Hairston are much better than Casey; while there is no replacement for Ryan, as a group those four guys just might be enough.

It's not doom and gloom and it'll be a disservice to Mason and Seth to assume we have no championship potential without Ryan.

[DukeWarhead]

If you want to spare yourself the ongoing psychological torment, it's best to assume that Kelly is done for the season. The players and staff are preparing as if he's not coming back (I don't have the links offhand, but there are several direct quotes from members of the team out there confirming this). Coach K meant it when he said "a long time."

No, No, No, No, No, No!!! [fingers in my ears and eyes squeezed shut] I can't hear you! I can't hear you! La, La, La, La!!!!!

[CDu]

Not trying to be argumentative, but we have two Wooden national player of the year candidates in Seth and Mason. Quinn is a future national player of the year candidate and I'd argue the equivalent to Dunleavy in terms of impact. Maybe more on a relative basis. While I agree Ryan is this year's Battier, we have a much more talented complement of players to take his place. Amile, Murphy, Josh and Hairston are much better than Casey; while there is no replacement for Ryan, as a group those four guys just might be enough.

It's not doom and gloom and it'll be a disservice to Mason and Seth to assume we have no championship potential without Ryan.

Not to be argumentative to your non-argumentative post, but it's important to remember that the 2001 championship team didn't win it without Boozer. Boozer played 22 minutes against UCLA, 22 minutes against USC, 25 minutes against Maryland (scoring 19 points) and 30 minutes against Arizona (scoring 12 and getting 12 rebounds). So the 2001 really isn't a useful point of reference unless we get Kelly back by the 2nd weekend of the tournament.

Could we win it all without Kelly? Sure. Less talented teams have made it to the championship game, and some have even won it. The cards would have to fall in our favor for it to happen, but it definitely could happen. But 2001 isn't a great example of us winning it all without a key starter, because we got that guy back by the time we faced the really elite teams in the NCAA tournament.

[socaldukie]

Coach K - Ryan's injury is long term. He is on crutches to reduce the load on his foot. We are hopeful he will return at some time.
on Seth - a slight ankle sprain.

[HDB]

Coach K - Ryan's injury is long term. He is on crutches to reduce the load on his foot. We are hopeful he will return at some time.
on Seth - a slight ankle sprain.

I actually read that quote very optimistically --- K is hopeful that Ryan will return at some time. I seem to recall that K gave very little hope about Kyrie's return throughout the 2011 season & yet he still made it back in time for the tournament.