MBB: Duke vs. Wake Forest Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[Bob Green]

The ACC regular season is upon us with Duke hosting Wake Forest tomorrow at 12 pm. TV coverage is provided by ESPNU. Discuss the game here.

[CDu]

This is, to put it nicely, not a very good basketball team we'll be playing. They have two terrific players (McKie and Harris, both of whom may end up on an All-ACC team), a talented freshman (Miller-McIntyre is shooting a Curry-esque 47% from the field and 45% from 3), and a decent shooter if left open (Fischer). But that's about it. Their frontcourt (aside from the aforementioned McKie) will be awfully overmatched and doesn't bring anything productive to the table. And they lack a strong floor general to initiate the offense. So our defense should give them troubles.

McKie is a physical SF who attacks the rim. Harris is somewhat like Curry - a threat to score from 3pt range, midrange, or taking it to the basket, but more of a score-first player than a lead guard. Miller-McIntyre plays PG for them. He's a terrific shooter and more of a combo guard than a pure PG. Fischer is a one-trick pony (hits open shots, not much else).

On the other end, McKie is physical and athletic, and could give Sulaimon troubles if he gets that assignment. He gets a decent number of steals. Harris is reasonably quick but otherwise not noteworthy defensively. Their backup PG (Jones) is very pesky and has a pretty high steal rate. But in the frontcourt, they're very overmatched. Thomas hustles and rebounds, but I don't think he's good enough to stop Plumlee and he shouldn't be able to guard Kelly out on the perimeter. Cavanaugh is a poor-man's Kelly. Abala Moto is physical and athletic, not unlike McKie (though not as developed skillwise). Rountree is a lanky, athletic SF/PF. He's the best shotblocking threat on the team, but not a lot else.

We should win this game by 15+. Wake could possibly play scrappy and make it interesting for a while, but the talent gap here is very wide.

[OldPhiKap]

This is, to put it nicely, not a very good basketball team we'll be playing. They have two terrific players (McKie and Harris, both of whom may end up on an All-ACC team), a talented freshman (Miller-McIntyre is shooting a Curry-esque 47% from the field and 45% from 3), and a decent shooter if left open (Fischer). But that's about it. Their frontcourt (aside from the aforementioned McKie) will be awfully overmatched and doesn't bring anything productive to the table. And they lack a strong floor general to initiate the offense. So our defense should give them troubles.

McKie is a physical SF who attacks the rim. Harris is somewhat like Curry - a threat to score from 3pt range, midrange, or taking it to the basket, but more of a score-first player than a lead guard. Miller-McIntyre plays PG for them. He's a terrific shooter and more of a combo guard than a pure PG. Fischer is a one-trick pony (hits open shots, not much else).

On the other end, McKie is physical and athletic, and could give Sulaimon troubles if he gets that assignment. He gets a decent number of steals. Harris is reasonably quick but otherwise not noteworthy defensively. Their backup PG (Jones) is very pesky and has a pretty high steal rate. But in the frontcourt, they're very overmatched. Thomas hustles and rebounds, but I don't think he's good enough to stop Plumlee and he shouldn't be able to guard Kelly out on the perimeter. Cavanaugh is a poor-man's Kelly. Abala Moto is physical and athletic, not unlike McKie (though not as developed skillwise). Rountree is a lanky, athletic SF/PF. He's the best shotblocking threat on the team, but not a lot else.

We should win this game by 15+. Wake could possibly play scrappy and make it interesting for a while, but the talent gap here is very wide.

Of course, having said all that (which is true), this is their one shot at #1 this year and the date was circled when the schedule came out. Time for us to show that killer instinct for the full 40.

[CDu]

Of course, having said all that (which is true), this is their one shot at #1 this year and the date was circled when the schedule came out. Time for us to show that killer instinct for the full 40.

Oh sure. Anything could happen. That's why they play the games. Just stating that the matchup (on paper) is a very lopsided one.

[stals]

Oh sure. Anything could happen. That's why they play the games. Just stating that the matchup (on paper) is a very lopsided one.


Sure anything could happen but Wake's on the road and has a very uninspiring 2012 resume (they beat Xavier, but Xavier's ranked #100 by KenPom). FWIW, KenPom predicts Duke by 28 points tomorrow.

[UrinalCake]

Don't forget that last year in WS we were up 23 when we let off the gas and let them cut the lead to 6. Gotta play the game.

[subzero02]

I want to see Sulaimon convert his shots in the paint at a higher rate tomorrow... He has really had a tough time with missed layups and having his shot blocked the last two games

[Matches]

Seems to me after the Davidson game that the ideal WF strategy would be to swarm smaller guys at Mason, make him pass out of a double-team, and hope we're not hitting our 3's. If they let him catch the ball in the post he's going to eat them alive.

Suffice it to say, though - trying to be polite - that I am not overly enamored of Coach Bzz's tactical abilities. Who knows what we'll see?

[Bob Green]

FWIW, KenPom predicts Duke by 28 points tomorrow.

Vegas oddsmakers favor Duke by 25:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

They have not yet set the over/under.

[COYS]

Seems to me after the Davidson game that the ideal WF strategy would be to swarm smaller guys at Mason, make him pass out of a double-team, and hope we're not hitting our 3's. If they let him catch the ball in the post he's going to eat them alive.

Suffice it to say, though - trying to be polite - that I am not overly enamored of Coach Bzz's tactical abilities. Who knows what we'll see?

Not to take anything away from Davidson, but if this is indeed the strategy, they will also have to hope that the refs call it loosely like they did in Charlotte. I thought Duke responded well to the physicality and ultimately gave as good as they got, but if Davidson had done the same thing in front of the ref crew from our game against UK, they would have had 7 players with 5 fouls by the end of the game.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Vegas oddsmakers favor Duke by 25:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

They have not yet set the over/under.
I'm not a betting person, but if I were I'd be tempted to bet against the spread. I know we CAN beat them by 25, but we've only won by over 25 against 3 teams this year, and that includes the exhibitions. I could see us enjoying a 24 point blowout and pissing off Vegas at the same time. :)

[Indoor66]

I'm not a betting person, but if I were I'd be tempted to bet against the spread. I know we CAN beat them by 25, but we've only won by over 25 against 3 teams this year, and that includes the exhibitions. I could see us enjoying a 24 point blowout and pissing off Vegas at the same time. :)

Vegas doesn't care. Their line is to get money bet on each team. They win on the vig paid on the bets.

[davekay1971]

Don't forget that last year in WS we were up 23 when we let off the gas and let them cut the lead to 6. Gotta play the game.

That's why Conan the Barbarian has the only credo acceptable for basketball games against ANY ACC foe...

Crush your enemies.
See them driven before you.
Hear the lamentations of their [fanbase].

Nothing particularly against Wake. But let's destroy them mercilessly.

[Bob Green]

They have not yet set the over/under.

It is up at 144. So the oddsmakers are looking for a score in the neighborhood of 85-60.

[cptnflash]

The ACC regular season is upon us with Duke hosting Wake Forest tomorrow at 12 pm. TV coverage is provided by ESPNU. Discuss the game here.

0% chance we lose this game. Literally zero. If this game was played 1000 times, we would win all 1000.

I hope we rebound well, hope Mason deals with double teams better than he did against Davidson, and hope we establish a 20+ point margin early enough that Marshall can get some minutes (assuming he's even healthy enough to play, of which I'm still not convinced).

Very excited for our first ACC game! Let's go Duke!

[Kedsy]

0% chance we lose this game. Literally zero. If this game was played 1000 times, we would win all 1000.

You really like to taunt the weauxf gods, don't you?

[cptnflash]

You really like to taunt the weauxf gods, don't you?

The weauxf gods can bite me - they are powerless tomorrow.

First of all, any comparisons to last year are unfounded. We are a totally different team - way more talented, way more experienced, much hungrier, and more together.

Regarding tomorrow's game specifically - we are the vastly superior team, and moreover, this is one of those rare games where we actually have more to play for than our opponent. Wake Forest has no chance of playing one minute of postseason basketball no matter what happens tomorrow. On the other hand, we have the opportunity to play our first meaningful game in nearly a month, and send a message to the rest of the league. I think our guys got a bit bored in December, slogging through mediocre non-conference opponents after running the November gauntlet, with long layoffs in between games. Now the rubber meets the road, and they know it. Mason and Tyler both said that conference play is the best part of the season in their interviews from earlier today. I wholeheartedly agree with them. I think we win tomorrow by 30+.

[subzero02]

I think we will win by 30+ vs. Wake if Alex Murphy and Amile Jefferson play well

[JNort]

No 20 overall recruit PG Shelton Mitchell commits

[Bob Green]

On the other hand, we have the opportunity to play our first meaningful game in nearly a month, and send a message to the rest of the league.

I do not understand how beating Wake Forest [169] will send a bigger message to the rest of the league than our recent victories over better teams such as: Davidson [82], Santa Clara [79] and Temple [61]. Those games were meaningful. Every game is meaningful when you respect the game, respect your opponent and respect yourself.

http://kenpom.com/

[mgtr]

Yes, remember Lehigh last year, or VCU a few years before. Any team is capable of winning or losing on any given night. We need to take care of business against every opponent.

[moonpie23]

The weauxf gods can bite me - they are powerless tomorrow.



don't you have another team that you pull for to challenge the weauxf godz about?

[CLW]

Hoping to see the team come out with an intense effort EARLY (in lieu of waiting to play hard until the 2nd half) and put Wake away early and keep their foot on the gas for 40 minutes.

That being said I fully expect the team to come out flat again early and sleep through a large portion of the 1st half before finally deciding to turn it up a notch and going on a big 2nd half run.

[tele]

Hoping to see the team come out with an intense effort EARLY (in lieu of waiting to play hard until the 2nd half) and put Wake away early and keep their foot on the gas for 40 minutes.

That being said I fully expect the team to come out flat again early and sleep through a large portion of the 1st half before finally deciding to turn it up a notch and going on a big 2nd half run.

If Duke does come out flat I don't think Coach K will wait until halftime to make adjustments. This is perhaps more of an effort game than other recent games; may see the "blue team" substitution to charge up things if the intensity isn't to the coaches liking.

[subzero02]

I don't expect a sluggish start... The second phase of our season begins today... Let's send a message to the rest of the conference with a suffocating defensive effort.

[riverside6]

Live tempo based stats for Duke/Wake here, starters posted

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=14545

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

0% chance we lose this game. Literally zero. If this game was played 1000 times, we would win all 1000.

What on earth would lead you to post this?

Go Duke!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

For any intrepid individual have some links from the dark side of the internet for those of us without ESPN but in their black out zone - http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/161901/1/watch-wake-forest-vs-1-duke.html


Go Duke!

[mapei]

Ryan has a really old-fashioned set shot. Don't see that very often.

[slower]

I don't expect a sluggish start....

Just because you don't expect one, doesn't mean you won't get one.

[mapei]

Dunleavy-esque!

[DevilWearsPrada]

Yes, remember Lehigh last year, or VCU a few years before. Any team is capable of winning or losing on any given night. We need to take care of business against every opponent.



Here is to NEVER FORGETTING the Lehigh game March 2012 or the VCU game (March 2007)!!!!

The Rams entered the 2007 NCAA Tournament as the #11 seed in the West region and upset the #6 seed Duke Blue Devils 79–77 on a game-winning bucket from just beyond the free-throw line by Eric Maynor in the final seconds of the game.

The Rams good fortune did not continue into the next round, however, where they were eliminated by the #3 seed Pittsburgh Panthers. The Rams squad showed outstanding poise in the second-half by forcing overtime after trailing 26–41 at halftime. They would go on to lose by a score of 79–84.

NEVER FORGET!!!!! NEXT PLAY!!!!!!!!!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Just because you don't expect one, doesn't mean you won't get one.

I wouldn't call that start "sluggish" - we were all over the floor hustling. Wake just played tough early for sure.

Nice to see some Marshall! Go Duke!

[mapei]

Do we have a two-point shot in the first 11 minutes? Amazing.

"Yes, barely" appears to be the correct answer.

[DukieInBrasil]

Josh, ugh.

[slower]

I wouldn't call that start "sluggish" - we were all over the floor hustling. Wake just played tough early for sure.

Nice to see some Marshall! Go Duke!

You can call it whatever you want. Aside from Kelly, what's to like? Mason seems to be constantly on the verge of reverting to the Mason of previous years. We are out-somethinged for way too many loose balls. I think next weekend in Raleigh will reveal a lot. Don't get me wrong - I think we should have a very good, possibly great, year. But do SO MANY games have to be SUCH a first-half struggle? It's troubling. Sorry - it stinks to be a perfectionist. I have extremely high hopes for this team.

[mapei]

You can call it whatever you want. Aside from Kelly, what's to like? Mason seems to be constantly on the verge of reverting to the Mason of previous years. We are out-somethinged for way too many loose balls. I think next weekend in Raleigh will reveal a lot. Don't get me wrong - I think we should have a very good, possibly great, year. but do SO MANY games have to be SUCH a first-half struggle?

We're leading by 10. It's been pretty 3-point shooting and ugly offense otherwise. I don't see an issue with our hustle on loose balls - we're getting our share - but Wake is getting inside fairly easily. If they could score even remotely well, it would be closer. But I'm not unhappy; we look better when the 3 is falling.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You can call it whatever you want. Aside from Kelly, what's to like? Mason seems to be constantly on the verge of reverting to the Mason of previous years. We are out-somethinged for way too many loose balls. I think next weekend in Raleigh will reveal a lot. Don't get me wrong - I think we should have a very good, possibly great, year. But do SO MANY games have to be SUCH a first-half struggle? It's troubling. Sorry - it stinks to be a perfectionist. I have extremely high hopes for this team.

We're up 15 in the first half. I'm sorry, what are you looking for? A shut out?

When I think "sluggish" I assume you are referring to a lack of effort or a gassed team. This looks like neither.

Go Duke!

[DukieInBrasil]

we've got 11 assists on 11 made FGs, that's pretty alright.

[Les Grossman]

fun to watch Ryan when he's on a roll

[slower]

We're up 15 in the first half. I'm sorry, what are you looking for? A shut out?

When I think "sluggish" I assume you are referring to a lack of effort or a gassed team. This looks like neither.

Go Duke!

I always want the shutout or the no-hitter!! Sorry - I know it seems like baseless whining. But it just seems like there are so many games where it looks like certain players have to feel their way back into the groove. Mason's performance, in particular, worries me. He's going back to the fade-away stuff, putting the ball on the floor and getting stripped and/or blocked at the rim. What can I say? I'm a worrier. :D

BTW, my original post came when the game was tied or within a few points. They've obviously stepped it up since then.

[DukieInBrasil]

You can call it whatever you want. Aside from Kelly, what's to like? Mason seems to be constantly on the verge of reverting to the Mason of previous years. We are out-somethinged for way too many loose balls. I think next weekend in Raleigh will reveal a lot. Don't get me wrong - I think we should have a very good, possibly great, year. But do SO MANY games have to be SUCH a first-half struggle? It's troubling. Sorry - it stinks to be a perfectionist. I have extremely high hopes for this team.

11 assists on 11 FGs?
7 assists from Quinn?
3 assists from Seth?
Kelly's lights out shooting?
Curry's lights out shooting?
60% 3FGs?
100% (5-5) FTs?
Offensively we're playing very well, in certain phases, and defensively, we're solid. I like that.

[Ultrarunner]

You can call it whatever you want. Aside from Kelly, what's to like? Mason seems to be constantly on the verge of reverting to the Mason of previous years. We are out-somethinged for way too many loose balls. I think next weekend in Raleigh will reveal a lot. Don't get me wrong - I think we should have a very good, possibly great, year. But do SO MANY games have to be SUCH a first-half struggle? It's troubling. Sorry - it stinks to be a perfectionist. I have extremely high hopes for this team.

Mason is playing pretty well. He's getting double- and triple teamed whenever he gets the ball down low and is making decent passes out. On defense, Wake is pulling him out of the key to open things up. Just look at how wide Wake is running the offense.

The strategy of limiting Mason's touches does not seem to be working well for Wake as Ryan and Seth are burying shots from the outside.

Good effort especially on the defensive end.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I always want the shutout or the no-hitter!! Sorry - I know it seems like baseless whining. But it just seems like there are so many games where it looks like certain players have to feel their way back into the groove. Mason's performance, in particular, worries me. He's going back to the fade-away stuff, putting the ball on the floor and getting stripped and/or blocked at the rim. What can I say? I'm a worrier. :D

It's fine to look for more, but doesn't it take away from your ability to enjoy the ride?

[Les Grossman]

Q w 7 assists already

[dchen09]

You can call it whatever you want. Aside from Kelly, what's to like? Mason seems to be constantly on the verge of reverting to the Mason of previous years. We are out-somethinged for way too many loose balls. I think next weekend in Raleigh will reveal a lot. Don't get me wrong - I think we should have a very good, possibly great, year. But do SO MANY games have to be SUCH a first-half struggle? It's troubling. Sorry - it stinks to be a perfectionist. I have extremely high hopes for this team.

I think more of an issue is that we're not getting him the ball in areas he likes. This offense is still clearly designed to get guards open on the perimeter or opens a lane. It seems like whenever we do, we kind of sit 4 out 1 in and hope he does something. Maybe Coach K is just trying to save something for harder games? I don't know.

[slower]

It's fine to look for more, but doesn't it take away from your ability to enjoy the ride?

Well, I work in Chapel Hill. Does that explain my ailment a bit better? I'm constantly under siege by these idiots.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, I work in Chapel Hill. Does that explain my ailment a bit better? I'm constantly under siege by these idiots.

Apologies - I didn't mean to call you out. I guess between your displeasure with a great first half, the "1000 out of 1000 times" confidence of earlier posters on this thread, and the "we need to beat NC State *next week* in order to solidify our ACC championship, I'm worried about the ability of our fans to just watch and enjoy this team as they play well in each game.

[dchen09]

lazy lazy possession on the last play. Looks like we just didn't want to foul them.

[slower]

Apologies - I didn't mean to call you out. I guess between your displeasure with a great first half, the "1000 out of 1000 times" confidence of earlier posters on this thread, and the "we need to beat NC State *next week* in order to solidify our ACC championship, I'm worried about the ability of our fans to just watch and enjoy this team as they play well in each game.

No worries. When I rant, I deserve whatever heat comes my way. I just feel like we've seen this movie before - the quick start, followed by the reality check, culminating in the disappointing ending. Yes, that is pretty much the definition of being a spoiled Duke fan, to be sure. But if these guys can put it all together properly, they can win the whole thing. THAT'S the painful part - knowing that we have a legit chance, but worrying that we'll fall short (while also dealing with the never-ending haters, especially in MY workplace). First-world problems, right? ;)

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Wake is playing with nothing to lose and very loose. Duke still looking like they are in 4th gear with an extra shift left if they need it.

Kinda like if the Bobcats were playing the Heat. The fact that Duke is still up by double digits speaks both to how bad WF is and how solid we are.

Let's close it out in the first 5 minutes!

[porkpa]

We're up by eleven at the half and I'm not pleased. Maybe I'm just spoiled. Quinn does have seven assists, but he's also shooting oh for a million. Mason is reverting to his old ways. "Mason you are a horse go out and show us what we all know you can do". He has also missed his two foul shots. We are hitting threes, but we are too reliant on the three. When they are hitting, its fine. When they aren't, you lose to Lehigh. This team is too talented not to look better.

[DBFAN]

I think more of an issue is that we're not getting him the ball in areas he likes. This offense is still clearly designed to get guards open on the perimeter or opens a lane. It seems like whenever we do, we kind of sit 4 out 1 in and hope he does something. Maybe Coach K is just trying to save something for harder games? I don't know.

While agree somewhat with that sentiment, I noticed in the short time Marshall was in he was able to get himself right under the basket. It's true Cook could do a better job at finding Mason at the right time, but Quin and Tyler and Seth can't wait forever for Mason to get there. It's great the 3's are falling and by all means a team should keep shooting them until they stop going in. But it is a little discouraging that we only made 2 inside of the perimeter. Gotta do a better job of cutting towards the basket. I think we will see Sheed try to do that in 2nd half

[Les Grossman]

by Rasheed

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Is it just me or is this a very NBA-like game? alot of isolation, extremely up-tempo and passive defense. Very fun to watch!

[Edouble]

"When he (Mason) turns into a finesse player... he's just not very good"

HA HA HA, well put.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Tie-dye shirts for WF are so '95.

[CDu]

Anyone else having trouble with the radio feed on the goduke app? I was chugging along late in the 1st half when the feed just stopped. I logged out, logged back in and tried playing again. It started up just moments before the cut out, then cut out again at the same spot. Irritating to say the least

[Edouble]

Um, why didn't Alex just DUNK that?

I'm glad he scored, but I think it would be fun for him to just slam it down as opposed to the reverse layup.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

The White Raven is the funniest thing I've heard in quite some time!:D

[Edouble]

Quinn + 4 bench players in the game right now.

The White Raven has a well-deserved rest on his perch.

[slower]

The White Raven is the funniest thing I've heard in quite some time!:D

Shane Ryan (Grantland) has been calling him that for at least a year. It was his way of mocking The Black Falcon. Love it!

[Edouble]

Shane Ryan (Grantland) has been calling him that for at least a year. It was his way of mocking The Black Falcon. Love it!

It is my first time hearing it. It is funny.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Shane Ryan (Grantland) has been calling him that for at least a year. It was his way of mocking The Black Falcon. Love it!

I try to keep up with Grantland(thoughtful writing usually) semi-regularly but must have missed it. "The White Raven" says so much with just 3 words. Brilliant!

[Edouble]

Can ESPN record some stock video of the coaching staff, so that we don't have to go live to Collins picking his nose?

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Can ESPN record some stock video of the coaching staff, so that we don't have to go live to Collins picking his nose?


Perhaps it's a signal to penetrate straight to the hole.;)

[slower]

I try to keep up with Grantland(thoughtful writing usually) semi-regularly but must have missed it. "The White Raven" says so much with just 3 words. Brilliant!

Here's the first "White Raven" reference I can find, from exactly 2 years ago:

http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2011/01/hot-potato-and-passage-of-time.html

[Edouble]

Mason was not bothered by that last Wake double team at all when he received the ball from Quinn, while standing in the middle of the paint.

[Edouble]

14:1 Assist to turnover ratio. Not bad.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

14:1 Assist to turnover ratio. Not bad.

Wojo-like performance today.

[dchen09]

14:1 Assist to turnover ratio. Not bad.

Just to nitpick... 0-11fg.. not exactly good either lol.

[mr. synellinden]

Wojo-like performance today.

Maybe the best 0 for 12 shooting game in Duke history.

[Edouble]

Just to nitpick... 0-11fg.. not exactly good either lol.

He was fouled on all of those! Where are the refs?!?!

[DukieInBrasil]

14:2 Assist to turnover ratio. Not bad.

Bizarre game for Quinn, 0-12 FGs but apparently nobody can miss when he passes it to them, with an astounding Holy Schnikes-type game with 14 assists.

[Chicago 1995]

Just to nitpick... 0-11fg.. not exactly good either lol.

He's taken mostly good shots, he's been fantastic on D. Sometimes shots don't fall. Some of those will go in most every night.

14:1? That's ridiculous.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Alex Murphy= the new Marty Pocius?