2013 NCAA Tournament venues

[hurleyfor3]

Now's as good a time as any to bring up the topic of NCAA tournament sites and where we want/can expect to go.

There are no sites in North Carolina this year.

The subregional sites will be:
Philly, Lexington, Dayton, Auburn Hills, Kansas City, Austin, SLC and San Jose. Arenas are the ones you'd naturally assume (Philly is the thing the 76ers play in, etc.)

The regional finals will be:
DC (Verizon Center), Indianapolis (Lucas Oil), Arlington TX (Cowboys stadium) and LA (Staples Center)

Major restrictions:
Kentucky cannot play in Lexington; Temple cannot play in Philly; Georgetown cannot be in the DC regional; Butler cannot be in the Indy regional. However, Michigan *can* play in Auburn Hills and Kansas *can* play in KC.

So... we want Philly/DC and nothing to do with Lexington, correct? This can be our path even if we're not a #1 seed, so this doesn't presuppose a certain outcome to the rest of the regular season other than being at least a 3 or maybe 4 seed.

Not sure why the I-75 corridor got so many sites this year, but at least there are enough local teams that can be sent there. Indiana, Michigan, Louisville, Ohio State, Illinois, Cincy, Butler. That's seven teams competing for six "anchor" spots, then behind them might be Michigan State and ND. If we fade late and drop below a 3/4, I sure don't want to be in any of those I-75 pods. For now Syracuse is the most obvious other Philly anchor.

As long as we stay in 1/2 seed territory, I don't see how we don't get Philly/DC.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Agreed that I don't want to put the cart in front of the horse, but it is interesting to start thinking about this. Looking at the current poll, the only other school that would be interested in being in DC for the regional is Syracuse - everyone else is competing for the other three locations. Philly would be great, and we have some nice history there, between 1992 (the Laettner shot vs. Kentucky, though that was in the old building) and 2001.

Regarding schools being prohibited from certain locations, I'm pretty sure that Butler could play in Indianapolis - I believe the rule is based on how many games a team plays at the venue during the regular season, and I don't think Butler plays in the dome much. I recall Villanova a few years ago limiting its games at the arena where the 76ers play so as not to preclude itself from playing there in the NCAA tournament - in years when Philly is not hosting the NCAAs, Villanova plays more games there - this is obviously back when Villanova was a top 10 team.

[hurleyfor3]

Regarding schools being prohibited from certain locations, I'm pretty sure that Butler could play in Indianapolis - I believe the rule is based on how many games a team plays at the venue during the regular season, and I don't think Butler plays in the dome much.

I attended both games Butler has ever played at Lucas Oil. :)

Anyway, in addition to the "no more than three home games a year" limitation, a school cannot play at a venue at which it is the host. Indy is listed as having three hosts: Butler, Iupui and the Horizon League. Maybe you can still play there if you're a co-host; I assume you can't.

[DU82]

Agreed that I don't want to put the cart in front of the horse, but it is interesting to start thinking about this. Looking at the current poll, the only other school that would be interested in being in DC for the regional is Syracuse - everyone else is competing for the other three locations. Philly would be great, and we have some nice history there, between 1992 (the Laettner shot vs. Kentucky, though that was in the old building) and 2001.

Regarding schools being prohibited from certain locations, I'm pretty sure that Butler could play in Indianapolis - I believe the rule is based on how many games a team plays at the venue during the regular season, and I don't think Butler plays in the dome much. I recall Villanova a few years ago limiting its games at the arena where the 76ers play so as not to preclude itself from playing there in the NCAA tournament - in years when Philly is not hosting the NCAAs, Villanova plays more games there - this is obviously back when Villanova was a top 10 team.

Butler's probably the host institution in Indy, as they were for the Final Four in 2010. I presume Temple's the host in Philly, I don't think they'll play more than three there this year.

Villanova's cut back on games in the Corestate/First Union/Wachovia/Wells Fargo arena because they aren't selling out, and it costs too much to play games there. They are limiting the number this year to three so they can play there if they make the tournament, but they're only going to play two next year.

[blazindw]

I attended both games Butler has ever played at Lucas Oil. :)

Anyway, in addition to the "no more than three home games a year" limitation, a school cannot play at a venue at which it is the host. Indy is listed as having three hosts: Butler, Iupui and the Horizon League. Maybe you can still play there if you're a co-host; I assume you can't.

As a host, co- or otherwise, Butler cannot play in Indy. The only exception is if it's the Final Four (like 2010). The home games rule comes into effect if you're not a host. A few years ago when Villanova limited its games at the WFC, they were not the hosts (Temple hosted that tourney site). Back then, the rule was no fewer than 6 games, and I believe 'Nova played 5 that season to ensure they were able to play there.

[Dev11]

As a host, co- or otherwise, Butler cannot play in Indy. The only exception is if it's the Final Four (like 2010). The home games rule comes into effect if you're not a host. A few years ago when Villanova limited its games at the WFC, they were not the hosts (Temple hosted that tourney site). Back then, the rule was no fewer than 6 games, and I believe 'Nova played 5 that season to ensure they were able to play there.

What kind of cash does a school make for hosting the site, and what does that school have to provide to be the host? I'm trying to understand the rationale for a school hosting a tournament event which prohibits it from playing a 'home' game.

[UrinalCake]

So... we want Philly/DC and nothing to do with Lexington, correct?

Some classmates of mine went to the first weekend games in Lexington in 1998, when we were the #1 seed. They were walking down the street with their Duke gear on when a family approached coming towards them. The parents of the family took their kids' hands, walked across the street, and walked around my friends on that side before crossing back onto their side of the street. My friends weren't being rude or threatening in any way, it's just that the parents didn't want to be anywhere close to these Duke people.

So yeah, I'd say we we're not likely to have very good fan support in the state of Kentucky.

[budwom]

Some classmates of mine went to the first weekend games in Lexington in 1998, when we were the #1 seed. They were walking down the street with their Duke gear on when a family approached coming towards them. The parents of the family took their kids' hands, walked across the street, and walked around my friends on that side before crossing back onto their side of the street. My friends weren't being rude or threatening in any way, it's just that the parents didn't want to be anywhere close to these Duke people.

So yeah, I'd say we we're not likely to have very good fan support in the state of Kentucky.

The locals were simply startled to see so many people with teeth. They meant no disrespect.

[blazindw]

Some classmates of mine went to the first weekend games in Lexington in 1998, when we were the #1 seed. They were walking down the street with their Duke gear on when a family approached coming towards them. The parents of the family took their kids' hands, walked across the street, and walked around my friends on that side before crossing back onto their side of the street. My friends weren't being rude or threatening in any way, it's just that the parents didn't want to be anywhere close to these Duke people.

So yeah, I'd say we we're not likely to have very good fan support in the state of Kentucky.

I mean, I've had people in the DC area refuse to cash me out at a grocery store just because I wore a Duke hat. And, anyone who knows me knows I get verbal abuse about Duke on a daily basis. Comes with the territory.

[Olympic Fan]

Some classmates of mine went to the first weekend games in Lexington in 1998, when we were the #1 seed. They were walking down the street with their Duke gear on when a family approached coming towards them. The parents of the family took their kids' hands, walked across the street, and walked around my friends on that side before crossing back onto their side of the street. My friends weren't being rude or threatening in any way, it's just that the parents didn't want to be anywhere close to these Duke people.

So yeah, I'd say we we're not likely to have very good fan support in the state of Kentucky.

I was also there in '98 and it was a terrible experience. Rupp Arena was packed for the pre-tourney open practice with Kentucky fans who specifically came to razz Duke. It was very much like Charlotte in 2005 ... except with less Duke fans in the stands. As I recall, the games weren't too bad (their hate didn't actually extend to buying tickets), but the hostility at that practice (and from the people in Lexington) was most unpleasant.

And, I could be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall that as the only year when Coacg K complained about the seedings.

Yeah, I think we'd definitely prefer Philly/DC.

[UrinalCake]

And, I could be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall that as the only year when Coacg K complained about the seedings.

We were seeded #1; do you mean he complained about the seedings of our opponents? Or that we should have been sent to a different region as a "higher" #1 seed?

I recall hearing that there's an unwritten rule/courtesy that the #1 seed in each region gets first priority in selecting hotels to stay in. We were not extended that courtesy, which ticked off Coach K. A first-world problem to have certainly, but also something to use for motivation.

[pfrduke]

I was also there in '98 and it was a terrible experience. Rupp Arena was packed for the pre-tourney open practice with Kentucky fans who specifically came to razz Duke. It was very much like Charlotte in 2005 ... except with less Duke fans in the stands. As I recall, the games weren't too bad (their hate didn't actually extend to buying tickets), but the hostility at that practice (and from the people in Lexington) was most unpleasant.

And, I could be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall that as the only year when Coacg K complained about the seedings.

Yeah, I think we'd definitely prefer Philly/DC.

The nice thing is that Philly is closer to Durham than Lexington (at least in highway miles, which I think is how it's calculated) and that we (knock on wood) should not end up behind many schools for which Philly is their closest location.

[sagegrouse]

The nice thing is that Philly is closer to Durham than Lexington (at least in highway miles, which I think is how it's calculated) and that we (knock on wood) should not end up behind many schools for which Philly is their closest location.

According to Google maps:

Durham-Lexington: 470 mi., 7:12 hours

Durham-Philadelphia: 399, 6:24

sagegrouse

[blazindw]

According to Google maps:

Durham-Lexington: 470 mi., 7:12 hours

Durham-Philadelphia: 399, 6:24

sagegrouse

And Philly is centered between NYC and DC, two of the biggest Duke alumni centers around.

[Bluedog]

The nice thing is that Philly is closer to Durham than Lexington (at least in highway miles, which I think is how it's calculated) and that we (knock on wood) should not end up behind many schools for which Philly is their closest location.


According to Google maps:

Durham-Lexington: 470 mi., 7:12 hours

Durham-Philadelphia: 399, 6:24

sagegrouse

While that is a nice reassurance and I admittedly looked that up earlier myself, it seems that distance to school isn't the sole criteria the NCAA uses when choosing the sites as was shown with Kentucky getting Atlanta last year despite St. Louis being closer. The committee said Atlanta was a "more natural Kentucky fit." I wonder if the selection committee ever seeks input from the schools as to which region they would prefer and then takes that at least into consideration somewhat. So, even if Lexington was closer, the committee could use the same logic they used last year for #1 overall seed Ky and see Philly as a "more natural Duke fit" (assuming we get a high seed). But, if the NCAA sees Duke as a "southern school" (although I don't think they would), then KY seems more naturally southern...that would be harsh.

[PensDevil]

As a PA resident, I was thinking of picking up Philly tickets... until I looked at what was left. Upper-level, end of court 3rd row from the top. I had similar seats for a Duke/Temple game (2006 when JJ broke the ACC scoring record) and they were pretty horrible.

[Nugget]

While that is a nice reassurance and I admittedly looked that up earlier myself, it seems that distance to school isn't the sole criteria the NCAA uses when choosing the sites as was shown with Kentucky getting Atlanta last year despite St. Louis being closer. The committee said Atlanta was a "more natural Kentucky fit." I wonder if the selection committee ever seeks input from the schools as to which region they would prefer and then takes that at least into consideration somewhat. So, even if Lexington was closer, the committee could use the same logic they used last year for #1 overall seed Ky and see Philly as a "more natural Duke fit" (assuming we get a high seed). But, if the NCAA sees Duke as a "southern school" (although I don't think they would), then KY seems more naturally southern...that would be harsh.

I think that unlikely. We're more likely to be viewed as an Atlantic/East Coast (frankly, "Northern") school than one with a natural fit in Lexington. And, with Indiana, Louisville and Ohio St. all likely candidates for high seeds this years looking to be slotted in to either Lexington or Dayton, vs. relatively few other candidates for Philly than Syracuse and whoever wins the ACC, getting put in Lexington probably isn't a big risk for us.

The 1998 situation was a result of different circumstances. At that time they didn't do the separate "pods," so the sub-regional locations were based on the region. Thus, once North Carolina got the #1 seed in the East that year by virtue of beating us (handily) in the ACC finals and winning the season series 2-1, they had to be in Hartford for the 1st and 2nd rounds (U.Conn, the #2 seed in the East that year couldn't play in Hartford, so they were flipped with Carolina to have the 1st and 2nd rounds in Washington, DC, where Carolina otherwise would have gone), before the regional in Greensboro.

And, we were put in Lexington for the 1st and 2nd rounds because Kentucky, the #2 seed in our region, couldn't play there and, thus, was put in Atlanta -- where we would certainly otherwise have been sent.

[UrinalCake]

So what happens if it is Louisville, OSU, Indiana, and us? Since Louisville can't play in their home, wouldn't they play in DC while we get sent to Kentucky? We are the most "southern" of the remaining three schools. Or does it not work that way any more? I have to confess that despite being a rapid fan who spends a crazy amount of time following college ball, I STILL don't fully understand the pod system.

[Bluedog]

I think that unlikely. We're more likely to be viewed as an Atlantic/East Coast (frankly, "Northern") school than one with a natural fit in Lexington. And, with Indiana, Louisville and Ohio St. all likely candidates for high seeds this years looking to be slotted in to either Lexington or Dayton, vs. relatively few other candidates for Philly than Syracuse and whoever wins the ACC, getting put in Lexington probably isn't a big risk for us.

I agree with you; just was saying that you can't always predict the selection committee's thought process. :) Incidentally, based on what I've read previously, they choose team locations simply based on what is perceived as best for the particular #1 overall seed, then move to the next #1 and so on, without regard to "most convenient overall." That is, for instance, if Duke is the #1 overall seed and it's marginally better for Duke to be in DC than in Atlanta (for illustrative purposes only, I realize Atlanta is not a site this year) while the other three number one seeds are Maryland, Syracuse, and Ohio State, the committee would still give Duke the DC regional even if that means sending Maryland to Atlanta, Syracuse to Cleveland, and Ohio State to San Jose. They choose the site for a single team in vacuum without regard to the teams seeded below. Since Maryland in my hypothetical is a lower number 1 seed than Duke, they get the "best available" site. Even though from a "being as nice to all the top seeds as possible" perspective, it would make more sense to put Duke in Atlanta and Maryland in DC. Not saying that contradicts what's you're saying, though, just that the other top seeds don't matter in regards to our site location if we get the overall #1 seed. ;)

[Bluedog]

So what happens if it is Louisville, OSU, Indiana, and us? Since Louisville can't play in their home, wouldn't they play in DC while we get sent to Kentucky? We are the most "southern" of the remaining three schools. Or does it not work that way any more? I have to confess that despite being a rapid fan who spends a crazy amount of time following college ball, I STILL don't fully understand the pod system.

No, as I stated in my post above (submitted it right after yours, so didn't see your question as I was typing it), it's a "first come, first served" basis. If Duke is the #1 overall seed, we will get the best regional location for us (DC) even if it means sending one of the other three remaining schools to a "southern" location. (Although in cases where a team can't play in their home arena or are hosting, obviously the committee has to take that into consideration to make sure it doesn't happen.) In any event, Lexington is for the second and third rounds, while DC is a regional site (Sweet Sixteen and Elite 8), so they're not competing at the same time anyways. The regional sites are DC, Indy, Arlington (TX), and L.A. (with the Final Four in Atlanta).

[El_Diablo]

As long as we stay in 1/2 seed territory, I don't see how we don't get Philly/DC.

There are plenty of scenarios in which we don't go to DC as a #1 seed. For example, if Louisville and Indiana finish ahead of us, and we are the third or fourth overall #1 seed, then we would most likely get sent to Arlington or LA. Basically, among current contenders, if we finish behind any two of Michigan, Indiana, Ohio State, Syracuse, Illinois, Florida, Michigan State, or Louisville, then we would be heading west. Minnesota or Georgetown could also take the Indianapolis region if they finish ahead of us, which could bump one of the other above-listed schools to DC. Or Kansas could get Arlington, sending Missouri to Indianapolis and any of those above-listed teams to DC. The possibilities are numerous at this point. Now, if we are one of the top two seeds OVERALL, then we would probably get DC (although Syracuse or Florida could still bump us to Indianapolis if they have the top overall seed).

If we are a #2 seed, the same logic applies (if there are two other #2 seeds ahead of us in the s-curve that are closer to DC than Arlington, then they would likely be given precedence over us), but if we slip into the #2 range, then there are even more schools, in addition to the ones listed above, to compete with. For example, there are also some ranked teams (Cincinatti, Pittsburgh, NC State, Butler, Notre Dame) that could conceivably make a run at a #2 seed and bump us out of DC if we slip to a #2 as well (although these teams are obviously longer shots at this point than the ones I listed above).

All that said, I think there's still a pretty good chance we end up in DC if we are a #1 or #2 seed. And given the subregional pod locations, I think there's a very good chance we go to Philly. But it's far from certain at this point.

[-jk]

So what happens if it is Louisville, OSU, Indiana, and us? Since Louisville can't play in their home, wouldn't they play in DC while we get sent to Kentucky? We are the most "southern" of the remaining three schools. Or does it not work that way any more? I have to confess that despite being a rapid fan who spends a crazy amount of time following college ball, I STILL don't fully understand the pod system.

I don't see why Louisville can't play in Lexington. They may not want to, but that's an entirely different, albeit familiar, story.

-jk

[Monmouth77]

I don't see why Louisville can't play in Lexington. They may not want to, but that's an entirely different, albeit familiar, story.

-jk

Kentucky played the first two rounds of last year's Tournament at the KFC Yum! Center (aka, Louisville's home court). Much to my dismay -- as I attended those games in person -- the stadium was overflowing with Big Blue fans booing heartily at every jumbotron trivia question whose answer was Grant Hill or Christian Laettner. And there were a lot of those!

I am not sure whether the Cardinals faithful would take over Lexington quite the same way, but I'd guess they'll be allowed to.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Dean Dome hosted a sub-regional and Duke was seeded #1 and grouped there with, say, Davidson, and a bunch of out of state schools.

[brevity]

According to Google maps:

Durham-Lexington: 470 mi., 7:12 hours

Durham-Philadelphia: 399, 6:24

sagegrouse

Sorry, but I do not believe those numbers are accurate. According to Apple Maps...

Durham-Philadelphia: 2,176 mi., 30:34 hrs
Durham-Lexington: 1,512 mi., 21:09 hrs
Durham-Dayton: 643 mi., 8:55 hrs
Durham-Auburn Hills: 1,854 mi., 28:27 hrs
Durham-Kansas City: 10,762 mi., 145:18 hrs
Durham-Austin: 798 mi., 10:12 hrs
Durham-Salt Lake City: 44 mi., 0:39 hrs
Durham-San Jose: 881 mi., 10:54 hrs

I'm no math wizard, and those may be 44 Mormon miles, but Salt Lake City is the way to go. Now, someone needs to generate a T-shirt logo that says "Duke in SLC 2013: We're on a mission."

[Nugget]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Dean Dome hosted a sub-regional and Duke was seeded #1 and grouped there with, say, Davidson, and a bunch of out of state schools.

In the somewhat ancient days (1988), this came fairly close to happening. We played at the Dean Dome as the #2 seed in the East, against BU in the first round and against SMU (which had upset Notre Dame) in the second round. The other teams there were #3 Syracuse (which played NCA&T) and #6 Missouri (which was upset by Rhode Island).

As I recall it, the scene was pretty uneventful from a fan perspective -- the arena was maybe 70-80% full, with mostly Duke fans, and the Carolina people did not show up to root against Duke. This may be attributable to the fact that Carolina was playing in the West region the same days we were, or possibly back in the day the fans of the respective schools were more likely to "root for the ACC" when we weren't playing each other than is true now.

The mild upsets of Missouri and Notre Dame generated some interest, and A&T sort of kept Syracuse in range for a while and the crowd was defintely behind them. But, in general, there really wasn't anything that approached the 1998 or 2005 situations.

My major takeaway was how confusing it was to see the Rhode Island Rams playing at the Dean Dome, with the same colors and same mascot as Carolina.

[-jk]

In the somewhat ancient days (1988), this came fairly close to happening. We played at the Dean Dome as the #2 seed in the East, against BU in the first round and against SMU (which had upset Notre Dame) in the second round. The other teams there were #3 Syracuse (which played NCA&T) and #6 Missouri (which was upset by Rhode Island).

As I recall it, the scene was pretty uneventful from a fan perspective -- the arena was maybe 70-80% full, with mostly Duke fans, and the Carolina people did not show up to root against Duke. This may be attributable to the fact that Carolina was playing in the West region the same days we were, or possibly back in the day the fans of the respective schools were more likely to "root for the ACC" when we weren't playing each other than is true now.

The mild upsets of Missouri and Notre Dame generated some interest, and A&T sort of kept Syracuse in range for a while and the crowd was defintely behind them. But, in general, there really wasn't anything that approached the 1998 or 2005 situations.

My major takeaway was how confusing it was to see the Rhode Island Rams playing at the Dean Dome, with the same colors and same mascot as Carolina.

And the same fight song in a different key. Surreal.

As I recall that was the first year teams were forbidden from playing tourney games at home. And, coincidentally, the last time the dean dome was a venue.

-jk

[DU82]

And the same fight song in a different key. Surreal.

As I recall that was the first year teams were forbidden from playing tourney games at home. And, coincidentally, the last time the dean dome was a venue.

-jk

No, host teams were allowed to play on their home court. Unless they lost three times that season to a school eight miles away.

(the no playing on your home court rule came a couple of years later. Most of the tickets were bought by Carolina fans, and they sold most of them to Duke fans...other than those that kept them and didn't show. I ended up getting our tickets through my brother's father-in-law, a former player for SMU.)

[BigWayne]

In the somewhat ancient days (1988), this came fairly close to happening.
In the really ancient days....1980. We played (and beat) KY in Rupp Arena in the regional semifinals. Purdue and Indiana
were the other two teams and all their fans cheered for KY. There were 2000 of us and 22,000 of them. One of the best games
I ever went to. Don't know what year they added the rule you can't play on your home floor, but it was some time after this.

[matt1]

Sorry, but I do not believe those numbers are accurate. According to Apple Maps...

Durham-Philadelphia: 2,176 mi., 30:34 hrs
Durham-Lexington: 1,512 mi., 21:09 hrs
Durham-Dayton: 643 mi., 8:55 hrs
Durham-Auburn Hills: 1,854 mi., 28:27 hrs
Durham-Kansas City: 10,762 mi., 145:18 hrs
Durham-Austin: 798 mi., 10:12 hrs
Durham-Salt Lake City: 44 mi., 0:39 hrs
Durham-San Jose: 881 mi., 10:54 hrs

I'm no math wizard, and those may be 44 Mormon miles, but Salt Lake City is the way to go. Now, someone needs to generate a T-shirt logo that says "Duke in SLC 2013: We're on a mission."

That must be Durham, Utah, judging from the distances.

[Dev11]

According to Apple Maps...

You've just quoted the Inside Carolina free board of online map services. Careful

[BlueDevilinNYC]

Sorry, but I do not believe those numbers are accurate. According to Apple Maps...

Durham-Philadelphia: 2,176 mi., 30:34 hrs
Durham-Lexington: 1,512 mi., 21:09 hrs
Durham-Dayton: 643 mi., 8:55 hrs
Durham-Auburn Hills: 1,854 mi., 28:27 hrs
Durham-Kansas City: 10,762 mi., 145:18 hrs
Durham-Austin: 798 mi., 10:12 hrs
Durham-Salt Lake City: 44 mi., 0:39 hrs
Durham-San Jose: 881 mi., 10:54 hrs

I'm no math wizard, and those may be 44 Mormon miles, but Salt Lake City is the way to go. Now, someone needs to generate a T-shirt logo that says "Duke in SLC 2013: We're on a mission."

This post made me laugh out loud at my desk. Very nicely done

[-bdbd]

No, as I stated in my post above (submitted it right after yours, so didn't see your question as I was typing it), it's a "first come, first served" basis. If Duke is the #1 overall seed, we will get the best regional location for us (DC) even if it means sending one of the other three remaining schools to a "southern" location. (Although in cases where a team can't play in their home arena or are hosting, obviously the committee has to take that into consideration to make sure it doesn't happen.) In any event, Lexington is for the second and third rounds, while DC is a regional site (Sweet Sixteen and Elite 8), so they're not competing at the same time anyways. The regional sites are DC, Indy, Arlington (TX), and L.A. (with the Final Four in Atlanta).

That's the key in my mind - they don't look at it wholististically - what sites would mean the least travel overall for the whole tourney - it is done based on the seeded rankings 1-68 (actually 1-16). So if Duke is #1 overall, then it'll definitely get Philly and DC. The biggest danger would be what happens if another Eastern school winds up seeded ahead of us, such as Syracuse. If, for example, Syracuse becomes a HIGHER #1 seed than a #1 seeded Duke, then THEY would get Philly and DC ahead of us (and we'd become the #1 seed in Arlington or LA or some such. Frankly, if given the option, I'd rather be a #2 in DC than a #1 all the way out in TX or CA -- but they won't ask me (or Duke for that matter). Given who then top 16 teams are right now, I think Philly seems near to a lock for us. DC will depend on, as I described above, how the seeds break down geographically.

The subregional sites will be:
Philly, Lexington, Dayton, Auburn Hills, Kansas City, Austin, SLC and San Jose. Arenas are the ones you'd naturally assume (Philly is the thing the 76ers play in, etc.)

The regional finals will be:
DC (Verizon Center), Indianapolis (Lucas Oil), Arlington TX (Cowboys stadium) and LA (Staples Center)

[Tom B.]

The 1998 situation was a result of different circumstances. At that time they didn't do the separate "pods," so the sub-regional locations were based on the region. Thus, once North Carolina got the #1 seed in the East that year by virtue of beating us (handily) in the ACC finals and winning the season series 2-1, they had to be in Hartford for the 1st and 2nd rounds (U.Conn, the #2 seed in the East that year couldn't play in Hartford, so they were flipped with Carolina to have the 1st and 2nd rounds in Washington, DC, where Carolina otherwise would have gone), before the regional in Greensboro.




And this was, I think, the root of K's gripe that year. The Tournament Committee was not (in theory, at least) supposed to move a #1 seed to a less "natural" site to accommodate a lower-seeded team, but that's basically what happened. We were #1 in the South, so we should've gone to Atlanta -- but because Kentucky was #2 in our region and the other subregional site was in Lexington (where Kentucky couldn't play), Kentucky got Atlanta and we got moved to Lexington.

Arguably, instead of moving Duke (and, for that matter, Carolina) from the subregional site in its region that was its best "fit," the Committee should've flipped the #2 seeds in the East and South, UConn and Kentucky, sending UConn to Rupp and Kentucky to Hartford. That would've let Duke play in Atlanta and Carolina in DC -- but it potentially could've messed up other factors that the Committee was supposed to consider, like the S-curve and regional "balance," etc. Basically, there was no way that year for the Committee to follow all of its own internal rules and guidelines, so it decided that sending Duke to Rupp and Carolina to Hartford did the least violence.

The pod system grew partially out of that, and also out of the situation in 2001 when east coast teams like Maryland and Georgetown, and west coast teams like UCLA and USC, had to fly cross-country and back on two consecutive weekends because of the sites to which they were assigned. One stated purpose of the pod system was to ease travel burdens, though it's questionable whether it's actually done that. Generally, the better-seeded teams (Nos. 1-4 in each region) have a greater chance of getting a site that's closer to home under the pod system, but it doesn't necessarily help the other teams in the Tournament -- and if you're a #4 seed from an area of the country that's dense with better teams that will get #1, #2 or #3 seeds, chances are it won't really help you, either.

[Tom B.]

The biggest danger would be what happens if another Eastern school winds up seeded ahead of us, such as Syracuse. If, for example, Syracuse becomes a HIGHER #1 seed than a #1 seeded Duke, then THEY would get Philly and DC ahead of us (and we'd become the #1 seed in Arlington or LA or some such).



Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if another team like Syracuse got the #1 seed for DC and we became the #1 seed for Indianapolis or Arlington, we could still get the Philly subregional (I still refuse to call it the "second and third round"), because the subregional sites aren't tied to the regional sites. Each subregional site gets two pods -- Syracuse would be in Philly as the lead team in one "pod," and we'd be the lead team in the other. The only way we don't get Philly is if there are two teams ahead of us in the overall seedings for whom Philly is a more natural fit.

[BigWayne]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if another team like Syracuse got the #1 seed for DC and we became the #1 seed for Indianapolis or Arlington, we could still get the Philly subregional (I still refuse to call it the "second and third round"), because the subregional sites aren't tied to the regional sites. Each subregional site gets two pods -- Syracuse would be in Philly as the lead team in one "pod," and we'd be the lead team in the other. The only way we don't get Philly is if there are two teams ahead of us in the overall seedings for whom Philly is a more natural fit.
You are correct.